Re: [RBW] Re: Hot Waxing Chains

[☆ Paul ☆]

Hello Jack.

No idea if Smoov is better than what you do — may not given the deep 
cleaning you do. But it is simpler and easier (so far). 

It'll take another month or two before I can really say! It gets cold and 
muddy here in VT, which should be a good test. 

Best.

Paul

On Wednesday, August 19, 2020 at 12:54:58 PM UTC-4, Jack K wrote:
>
> I've been following a variant of Zero Friction Adam's suggested routine 
> for years, but unlike Adam I adopted that routine out of laziness. I hot 
> wax with Chain Wax(TM), a paraffin + PTFE product that I bought a lifetime 
> supply of when it went off the market 20-ish years ago. Between hot waxings 
> I lube up with Boeshield (usually) or ProGold (until the bottle runs out). 
> Somewhere I got a tiny drip bottle of Boeshield about the size of my thumb, 
> which is easy to carry on the bike when need be and it's easy to refill. 
>
> Boeshield is fairly clean stuff, but eventually the chain does get to the 
> point where it leaves a smudge on your calf if you bump it. I take that as 
> a sign it's time for an off-bike clean and hot wax treatment. Sounds like 
> maybe Smoov would be better than Boeshield? I'll likely give it a try in a 
> decade or so when my supply of Boeshield runs out.
>
> -Jack
>
> On Thursday, August 6, 2020 at 7:45:16 AM UTC-4, ☆ Paul ☆ wrote:
>>
>> Hello Everyone. 
>>
>> I contacted Adam Kerin a few weeks back, who runs Zero Friction. (http://
>> www.zerofrictioncycling.com.au). His website's mission is to get the 
>> lowest friction possible on bicycle chains for bike racing. While that's 
>> the antithesis to Rivendell, I asked him about the cleanest chain lube that 
>> doesn't involve waxing, since one side effect of low friction is lubes are 
>> many are very clean. He wrote a REALLY LONG response, the upshot being he 
>> likes SMOOV lube. I ordered some and it arrived yesterday!
>>
>> Adam's recommendation was to wax once, then use Smoov after. Waxing is a 
>> lot of work, so as an experiment yesterday I just cleaned the hell out of 
>> one of my chains by sticking it in a big plastic bottle, covering it with 
>> chain degreaser, and shaking it (Sheldon Brown method). Then went over it a 
>> second time with a brush and did the same with my drivetrain. Still a 
>> little grease in the joints of the chain, but shiny clean and not sticky 
>> for the most part . I'm going to try Smoov today and will report back.
>>
>> Adam also sells pre-waxed and pre-cleaned chains.
>>
>> Here's Adam's long response for those of you who want to read it:
>>
>> "Waxing is by far and way the best but outright treatment if longevity is 
>> not its main brief and if push re-wax treatments then past about 300km the 
>> chain will feel and sound very dry and friction and wear ramps up, and 
>> popping them off for a re-wax all the time may not be feasible for your 
>> operation.
>>
>> The best combo is likely to be an initial remove chain and strip clean 
>> factory grease as per instructions in my wax zen master guide ( factory 
>> grease needs to come off anyway), and initially wax with msw. Then after 
>> bikes have done about 200kms move to smoove. Smoove is a very cheap but 
>> very long lasting per application lube with excellent low wear and 
>> contamination resistance. A bottle is $25 and lasts a long time – you only 
>> apply 2 to 3ml per re lube and a re-lube will last about 800km. Re-lube 
>> technique with smoove is important however, lube needs to be warm (and 
>> preferably chain as well but it will be ok if not - its just better if it 
>> is), work in thoroughly by backpedalling about 30 times, then WIPE OFF 
>> EXCESS THROUGLY, and allow overnight set. Doing this smoove stays very 
>> clean and not gunky for a good stretch, however every approx. 3000km a 
>> clean and start over is great if you can.
>>
>> Many use msw start then smoove for cycling holidays, cross continent 
>> races etc – it is a great combo – msw negates smooves initial penetration 
>> issues.
>>
>> Have a look at waxing zen master guide and smoove advanced application 
>> guide – may seem a bit but in reality its easy, and it will help kids learn 
>> some great skills, and it will deliver the level of low maintenance, low 
>> friction and very cheap lubricant running costs you are looking for.
>> (only issues is both myself and importer are currently out of smoove, but 
>> more in stock soon… ish…..)
>>
>> IF one slathers smoove on and doesn’t wipe excess then you will gunk 
>> things up, but if you apply as per instructions you leave a high performing 
>> lubricant INSIDE the chain where it is needed, not outside to gather 
>> airborne dust and contamination and so the outside stays impressively clean 
>> for an impressive period. With traditional oils / wet lubes ever single 
>> particle of airborne dust (of which there is a lot, just shine a bright 
>> torch into the air at night) will stick on contact which is why they go 
>> downhill very quickly re mess, friction and 

Re: [RBW] Re: Hot Waxing Chains

[Jack K]

I've been following a variant of Zero Friction Adam's suggested routine for 
years, but unlike Adam I adopted that routine out of laziness. I hot wax 
with Chain Wax(TM), a paraffin + PTFE product that I bought a lifetime 
supply of when it went off the market 20-ish years ago. Between hot waxings 
I lube up with Boeshield (usually) or ProGold (until the bottle runs out). 
Somewhere I got a tiny drip bottle of Boeshield about the size of my thumb, 
which is easy to carry on the bike when need be and it's easy to refill. 

Boeshield is fairly clean stuff, but eventually the chain does get to the 
point where it leaves a smudge on your calf if you bump it. I take that as 
a sign it's time for an off-bike clean and hot wax treatment. Sounds like 
maybe Smoov would be better than Boeshield? I'll likely give it a try in a 
decade or so when my supply of Boeshield runs out.

-Jack

On Thursday, August 6, 2020 at 7:45:16 AM UTC-4, ☆ Paul ☆ wrote:
>
> Hello Everyone. 
>
> I contacted Adam Kerin a few weeks back, who runs Zero Friction. (http://
> www.zerofrictioncycling.com.au). His website's mission is to get the 
> lowest friction possible on bicycle chains for bike racing. While that's 
> the antithesis to Rivendell, I asked him about the cleanest chain lube that 
> doesn't involve waxing, since one side effect of low friction is lubes are 
> many are very clean. He wrote a REALLY LONG response, the upshot being he 
> likes SMOOV lube. I ordered some and it arrived yesterday!
>
> Adam's recommendation was to wax once, then use Smoov after. Waxing is a 
> lot of work, so as an experiment yesterday I just cleaned the hell out of 
> one of my chains by sticking it in a big plastic bottle, covering it with 
> chain degreaser, and shaking it (Sheldon Brown method). Then went over it a 
> second time with a brush and did the same with my drivetrain. Still a 
> little grease in the joints of the chain, but shiny clean and not sticky 
> for the most part . I'm going to try Smoov today and will report back.
>
> Adam also sells pre-waxed and pre-cleaned chains.
>
> Here's Adam's long response for those of you who want to read it:
>
> "Waxing is by far and way the best but outright treatment if longevity is 
> not its main brief and if push re-wax treatments then past about 300km the 
> chain will feel and sound very dry and friction and wear ramps up, and 
> popping them off for a re-wax all the time may not be feasible for your 
> operation.
>
> The best combo is likely to be an initial remove chain and strip clean 
> factory grease as per instructions in my wax zen master guide ( factory 
> grease needs to come off anyway), and initially wax with msw. Then after 
> bikes have done about 200kms move to smoove. Smoove is a very cheap but 
> very long lasting per application lube with excellent low wear and 
> contamination resistance. A bottle is $25 and lasts a long time – you only 
> apply 2 to 3ml per re lube and a re-lube will last about 800km. Re-lube 
> technique with smoove is important however, lube needs to be warm (and 
> preferably chain as well but it will be ok if not - its just better if it 
> is), work in thoroughly by backpedalling about 30 times, then WIPE OFF 
> EXCESS THROUGLY, and allow overnight set. Doing this smoove stays very 
> clean and not gunky for a good stretch, however every approx. 3000km a 
> clean and start over is great if you can.
>
> Many use msw start then smoove for cycling holidays, cross continent races 
> etc – it is a great combo – msw negates smooves initial penetration issues.
>
> Have a look at waxing zen master guide and smoove advanced application 
> guide – may seem a bit but in reality its easy, and it will help kids learn 
> some great skills, and it will deliver the level of low maintenance, low 
> friction and very cheap lubricant running costs you are looking for.
> (only issues is both myself and importer are currently out of smoove, but 
> more in stock soon… ish…..)
>
> IF one slathers smoove on and doesn’t wipe excess then you will gunk 
> things up, but if you apply as per instructions you leave a high performing 
> lubricant INSIDE the chain where it is needed, not outside to gather 
> airborne dust and contamination and so the outside stays impressively clean 
> for an impressive period. With traditional oils / wet lubes ever single 
> particle of airborne dust (of which there is a lot, just shine a bright 
> torch into the air at night) will stick on contact which is why they go 
> downhill very quickly re mess, friction and wear. Don’t even get me started 
> on white lightning lubes, they are up there as the worst in the industry. 
> You could walk into your pantry right now and randomly mix together 
> anything you have in there that is liquid, and you will make a better lube 
> than any white lightning product.
>
> Smoove sets to a semi solid plastic state so it is very contamination 
> resistant and so wont be phased much by puddles and general airborne 

Re: [RBW] Re: Hot Waxing Chains

[Whatcha Oughtter]

Tri-flow doesn’t doesn’t attract the dirt but it has Teflon, which is probably 
good for lubrication, but there’s been some health concerns lately, although on 
non-stick cooking surfaces- I don’t plan on eating off my bike chain! -John

> On Aug 5, 2020, at 7:57 PM, 'John Hawrylak' via RBW Owners Bunch 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> John
> 
> Don't know what the OEMs use ot how the apply it, but agree it's last for 
> about 500M.  
> 
> Does TriFlow attract dirt???
> 
> John Hawrylak
> Woodstown NJ
> 
>> On Wednesday, August 5, 2020 at 5:56:10 PM UTC-4, Whatcha Oughtter wrote:
>> Does anyone know what’s on chains when they are new out of the box? It 
>> always seems sticky but doesn’t seem to attract too much dirt, is really 
>> smooth and quiet and lasts a long time. After the factory lube is gone I use 
>> tri-flow with pretty good results. I used motorcycle chain lube for a while 
>> that sprayed on thin and penetrated into the nooks and crannies but dried 
>> out thick like a grease. It attracted all kinds of grit and wore out a chain 
>> in very short order. -John
>> 
>> 
> 
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Re: [RBW] Re: Hot Waxing Chains

[Patrick Moore]

Paul: Please do report back. I ride in sandy conditions, and used paraffin
wax for years, then a few years ago switched to Molten Speed Wax, which
very definitely lasts longer, but still only a short while before the
chains get noisy. I have no scientific evidence that chain noise means more
wear, but I still use it as a signal to re-lube. I now get about 200 miles
of pavement riding from a chain job compared to 100 from grocery store
paraffin.

If the Smoov product lasts much longer at the expense of a bit of wiping,
and if it doesn't attract grit even when riding in sandy conditions, I will
be very interested.

On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 5:45 AM ☆ Paul ☆  wrote:

> Hello Everyone.
>
> I contacted Adam Kerin a few weeks back, who runs Zero Friction. (http://
> www.zerofrictioncycling.com.au). His website's mission is to get the
> lowest friction possible on bicycle chains for bike racing. While that's
> the antithesis to Rivendell, I asked him about the cleanest chain lube that
> doesn't involve waxing, since one side effect of low friction is lubes are
> many are very clean. He wrote a REALLY LONG response, the upshot being he
> likes SMOOV lube. I ordered some and it arrived yesterday!
>
> Adam's recommendation was to wax once, then use Smoov after. Waxing is a
> lot of work, so as an experiment yesterday I just cleaned the hell out of
> one of my chains by sticking it in a big plastic bottle, covering it with
> chain degreaser, and shaking it (Sheldon Brown method). Then went over it a
> second time with a brush and did the same with my drivetrain. Still a
> little grease in the joints of the chain, but shiny clean and not sticky
> for the most part . I'm going to try Smoov today and will report back.
>
> Adam also sells pre-waxed and pre-cleaned chains.
>
> Here's Adam's long response for those of you who want to read it:
>
> "Waxing is by far and way the best but outright treatment if longevity is
> not its main brief and if push re-wax treatments then past about 300km the
> chain will feel and sound very dry and friction and wear ramps up, and
> popping them off for a re-wax all the time may not be feasible for your
> operation.
>
> The best combo is likely to be an initial remove chain and strip clean
> factory grease as per instructions in my wax zen master guide ( factory
> grease needs to come off anyway), and initially wax with msw. Then after
> bikes have done about 200kms move to smoove. Smoove is a very cheap but
> very long lasting per application lube with excellent low wear and
> contamination resistance. A bottle is $25 and lasts a long time – you only
> apply 2 to 3ml per re lube and a re-lube will last about 800km. Re-lube
> technique with smoove is important however, lube needs to be warm (and
> preferably chain as well but it will be ok if not - its just better if it
> is), work in thoroughly by backpedalling about 30 times, then WIPE OFF
> EXCESS THROUGLY, and allow overnight set. Doing this smoove stays very
> clean and not gunky for a good stretch, however every approx. 3000km a
> clean and start over is great if you can.
>
> Many use msw start then smoove for cycling holidays, cross continent races
> etc – it is a great combo – msw negates smooves initial penetration issues.
>
> Have a look at waxing zen master guide and smoove advanced application
> guide – may seem a bit but in reality its easy, and it will help kids learn
> some great skills, and it will deliver the level of low maintenance, low
> friction and very cheap lubricant running costs you are looking for.
> (only issues is both myself and importer are currently out of smoove, but
> more in stock soon… ish…..)
>
> IF one slathers smoove on and doesn’t wipe excess then you will gunk
> things up, but if you apply as per instructions you leave a high performing
> lubricant INSIDE the chain where it is needed, not outside to gather
> airborne dust and contamination and so the outside stays impressively clean
> for an impressive period. With traditional oils / wet lubes ever single
> particle of airborne dust (of which there is a lot, just shine a bright
> torch into the air at night) will stick on contact which is why they go
> downhill very quickly re mess, friction and wear. Don’t even get me started
> on white lightning lubes, they are up there as the worst in the industry.
> You could walk into your pantry right now and randomly mix together
> anything you have in there that is liquid, and you will make a better lube
> than any white lightning product.
>
> Smoove sets to a semi solid plastic state so it is very contamination
> resistant and so wont be phased much by puddles and general airborne
> contamination. If they don’t clock up many miles, you will get a very long
> run out of the msw the smoove lubed chains indeed."
>
>
> Hope this helps, I'll report back.
>
> I may buy one of his cleaned chains and try that out if this doesn't work!
>
>
> Paul
>
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, August 5, 2020 at 10:57:28 PM UTC-4, John 

Re: [RBW] Re: Hot Waxing Chains

[☆ Paul ☆]

Hello Everyone. 

I contacted Adam Kerin a few weeks back, who runs Zero Friction. (http://
www.zerofrictioncycling.com.au). His website's mission is to get the lowest 
friction possible on bicycle chains for bike racing. While that's the 
antithesis to Rivendell, I asked him about the cleanest chain lube that 
doesn't involve waxing, since one side effect of low friction is lubes are 
many are very clean. He wrote a REALLY LONG response, the upshot being he 
likes SMOOV lube. I ordered some and it arrived yesterday!

Adam's recommendation was to wax once, then use Smoov after. Waxing is a 
lot of work, so as an experiment yesterday I just cleaned the hell out of 
one of my chains by sticking it in a big plastic bottle, covering it with 
chain degreaser, and shaking it (Sheldon Brown method). Then went over it a 
second time with a brush and did the same with my drivetrain. Still a 
little grease in the joints of the chain, but shiny clean and not sticky 
for the most part . I'm going to try Smoov today and will report back.

Adam also sells pre-waxed and pre-cleaned chains.

Here's Adam's long response for those of you who want to read it:

"Waxing is by far and way the best but outright treatment if longevity is 
not its main brief and if push re-wax treatments then past about 300km the 
chain will feel and sound very dry and friction and wear ramps up, and 
popping them off for a re-wax all the time may not be feasible for your 
operation.

The best combo is likely to be an initial remove chain and strip clean 
factory grease as per instructions in my wax zen master guide ( factory 
grease needs to come off anyway), and initially wax with msw. Then after 
bikes have done about 200kms move to smoove. Smoove is a very cheap but 
very long lasting per application lube with excellent low wear and 
contamination resistance. A bottle is $25 and lasts a long time – you only 
apply 2 to 3ml per re lube and a re-lube will last about 800km. Re-lube 
technique with smoove is important however, lube needs to be warm (and 
preferably chain as well but it will be ok if not - its just better if it 
is), work in thoroughly by backpedalling about 30 times, then WIPE OFF 
EXCESS THROUGLY, and allow overnight set. Doing this smoove stays very 
clean and not gunky for a good stretch, however every approx. 3000km a 
clean and start over is great if you can.

Many use msw start then smoove for cycling holidays, cross continent races 
etc – it is a great combo – msw negates smooves initial penetration issues.

Have a look at waxing zen master guide and smoove advanced application 
guide – may seem a bit but in reality its easy, and it will help kids learn 
some great skills, and it will deliver the level of low maintenance, low 
friction and very cheap lubricant running costs you are looking for.
(only issues is both myself and importer are currently out of smoove, but 
more in stock soon… ish…..)

IF one slathers smoove on and doesn’t wipe excess then you will gunk things 
up, but if you apply as per instructions you leave a high performing 
lubricant INSIDE the chain where it is needed, not outside to gather 
airborne dust and contamination and so the outside stays impressively clean 
for an impressive period. With traditional oils / wet lubes ever single 
particle of airborne dust (of which there is a lot, just shine a bright 
torch into the air at night) will stick on contact which is why they go 
downhill very quickly re mess, friction and wear. Don’t even get me started 
on white lightning lubes, they are up there as the worst in the industry. 
You could walk into your pantry right now and randomly mix together 
anything you have in there that is liquid, and you will make a better lube 
than any white lightning product.

Smoove sets to a semi solid plastic state so it is very contamination 
resistant and so wont be phased much by puddles and general airborne 
contamination. If they don’t clock up many miles, you will get a very long 
run out of the msw the smoove lubed chains indeed."


Hope this helps, I'll report back. 

I may buy one of his cleaned chains and try that out if this doesn't work!


Paul




On Wednesday, August 5, 2020 at 10:57:28 PM UTC-4, John Hawrylak wrote:
>
> John
>
> Don't know what the OEMs use ot how the apply it, but agree it's last for 
> about 500M.  
>
> Does TriFlow attract dirt???
>
> John Hawrylak
> Woodstown NJ
>
> On Wednesday, August 5, 2020 at 5:56:10 PM UTC-4, Whatcha Oughtter wrote:
>>
>> Does anyone know what’s on chains when they are new out of the box? It 
>> always seems sticky but doesn’t seem to attract too much dirt, is really 
>> smooth and quiet and lasts a long time. After the factory lube is gone I 
>> use tri-flow with pretty good results. I used motorcycle chain lube for a 
>> while that sprayed on thin and penetrated into the nooks and crannies but 
>> dried out thick like a grease. It attracted all kinds of grit and wore out 
>> a chain in very short order. -John
>>

Re: [RBW] Re: Hot Waxing Chains

['John Hawrylak' via RBW Owners Bunch]

John

Don't know what the OEMs use ot how the apply it, but agree it's last for 
about 500M.  

Does TriFlow attract dirt???

John Hawrylak
Woodstown NJ

On Wednesday, August 5, 2020 at 5:56:10 PM UTC-4, Whatcha Oughtter wrote:
>
> Does anyone know what’s on chains when they are new out of the box? It 
> always seems sticky but doesn’t seem to attract too much dirt, is really 
> smooth and quiet and lasts a long time. After the factory lube is gone I 
> use tri-flow with pretty good results. I used motorcycle chain lube for a 
> while that sprayed on thin and penetrated into the nooks and crannies but 
> dried out thick like a grease. It attracted all kinds of grit and wore out 
> a chain in very short order. -John
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Hot Waxing Chains

[Whatcha Oughtter]

Does anyone know what’s on chains when they are new out of the box? It 
always seems sticky but doesn’t seem to attract too much dirt, is really 
smooth and quiet and lasts a long time. After the factory lube is gone I 
use tri-flow with pretty good results. I used motorcycle chain lube for a 
while that sprayed on thin and penetrated into the nooks and crannies but 
dried out thick like a grease. It attracted all kinds of grit and wore out 
a chain in very short order. -John

On Friday, July 31, 2020 at 9:02:08 AM UTC-7, ☆ Paul ☆ wrote:
>
> Hi Corwin
>
> I'm going to try to find a link to that. Or just write Paul, he's pretty 
> responsive. :)
>
> Never using lube would be the holy grail for me. I hate the gunk.
>
> On Friday, July 31, 2020 at 1:08:06 AM UTC-4 Corwin wrote:
>
>> Hi Paul -
>>
>> If you want to find out about riding a chain with no lube - look to Paul 
>> Price of Paul Components. He is notorious for riding his bikes without 
>> maintaining them to see how long it takes parts to fail.
>>
>> Namaste,
>>
>>
>> Corwin
>>
>> On Wednesday, July 29, 2020 at 1:17:08 PM UTC-7, ☆ Paul ☆ wrote:
>>>
>>> Has anyone ever tried cleaning their chain and NEVER applying lube at 
>>> ALL?
>>>
>>> This may be an absolutely idiotic question, but there are all kinds of 
>>> posts all over the web about people who think lube is a scam, but I can't 
>>> find anyone that has actually tested the theory with a top-quality chain.
>>>
>>> I've ridden belt drive bikes exclusively for the last 12 years, until I 
>>> bought an Atlantis recently and my life changed. The one nice thing about 
>>> belts is you just hose off the bike now and then.
>>>
>>> Paul
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, July 29, 2020 at 3:33:00 PM UTC-4 Deacon Patrick wrote:
>>>
 Put on NFS for the first time today. 12 drops on my lng 1x9 Gus's 
 chain, in high gear (small cog), back spun 12 times, no wipe. It shifted 
 wonderfully smooth. I'll see how long it goes before asking for more and 
 how it handles mud and frozen slop; however, so far I'm impressed.

 With abandon,
 Patrick

>>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Hot Waxing Chains

[☆ Paul ☆]

Hi Corwin

I'm going to try to find a link to that. Or just write Paul, he's pretty 
responsive. :)

Never using lube would be the holy grail for me. I hate the gunk.

On Friday, July 31, 2020 at 1:08:06 AM UTC-4 Corwin wrote:

> Hi Paul -
>
> If you want to find out about riding a chain with no lube - look to Paul 
> Price of Paul Components. He is notorious for riding his bikes without 
> maintaining them to see how long it takes parts to fail.
>
> Namaste,
>
>
> Corwin
>
> On Wednesday, July 29, 2020 at 1:17:08 PM UTC-7, ☆ Paul ☆ wrote:
>>
>> Has anyone ever tried cleaning their chain and NEVER applying lube at ALL?
>>
>> This may be an absolutely idiotic question, but there are all kinds of 
>> posts all over the web about people who think lube is a scam, but I can't 
>> find anyone that has actually tested the theory with a top-quality chain.
>>
>> I've ridden belt drive bikes exclusively for the last 12 years, until I 
>> bought an Atlantis recently and my life changed. The one nice thing about 
>> belts is you just hose off the bike now and then.
>>
>> Paul
>>
>> On Wednesday, July 29, 2020 at 3:33:00 PM UTC-4 Deacon Patrick wrote:
>>
>>> Put on NFS for the first time today. 12 drops on my lng 1x9 Gus's 
>>> chain, in high gear (small cog), back spun 12 times, no wipe. It shifted 
>>> wonderfully smooth. I'll see how long it goes before asking for more and 
>>> how it handles mud and frozen slop; however, so far I'm impressed.
>>>
>>> With abandon,
>>> Patrick
>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Hot Waxing Chains

[Corwin]

Hi Paul -

If you want to find out about riding a chain with no lube - look to Paul 
Price of Paul Components. He is notorious for riding his bikes without 
maintaining them to see how long it takes parts to fail.

Namaste,


Corwin

On Wednesday, July 29, 2020 at 1:17:08 PM UTC-7, ☆ Paul ☆ wrote:
>
> Has anyone ever tried cleaning their chain and NEVER applying lube at ALL?
>
> This may be an absolutely idiotic question, but there are all kinds of 
> posts all over the web about people who think lube is a scam, but I can't 
> find anyone that has actually tested the theory with a top-quality chain.
>
> I've ridden belt drive bikes exclusively for the last 12 years, until I 
> bought an Atlantis recently and my life changed. The one nice thing about 
> belts is you just hose off the bike now and then.
>
> Paul
>
> On Wednesday, July 29, 2020 at 3:33:00 PM UTC-4 Deacon Patrick wrote:
>
>> Put on NFS for the first time today. 12 drops on my lng 1x9 Gus's 
>> chain, in high gear (small cog), back spun 12 times, no wipe. It shifted 
>> wonderfully smooth. I'll see how long it goes before asking for more and 
>> how it handles mud and frozen slop; however, so far I'm impressed.
>>
>> With abandon,
>> Patrick
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Hot Waxing Chains

[Garth]

WD-40 is just fine by me Stan !  It's the original "clean and lube in one" 
concept that other brands have tried to copy or improve on. 



On Wednesday, July 29, 2020 at 8:53:24 PM UTC-4, stanw...@bellsouth.net 
wrote:
>
> I suspect I'll get a lot of grief for this...
>
> For many years I've been using WD-40 on our bicycle chains.  I spray it on 
> while spinning the chain, let it set for a half hour or so and wipe the 
> excess off with a paper shop towel.  
>
> I first started using WD on the O-ring drive chains on our Ducati 
> motorcycles.  We had been riding BMW shaft drive bikes for years and I 
> wasn't sure what to do with lubing motorcycle chains.  The fellow who was 
> president of the local Ducati club, who had a LOT of bikes, suggested 
> WD-40. 
>
> In 1986 he had purchased a new Suzuki GSXR750, a pretty powerful bike at 
> the time, and decided to experiment with WD-40 as a chain lube.  He would 
> apply the WD at the end of a ride.
>
> We bought the Ducs and met Jim around 2000.  He was running the original 
> chain on the Gixxer then, so I figured I'd give it a shot.  I did that for 
> our road bikes and my track bike as well.  Never had any problems and had 
> normal service life from the chains.  I figured that it was good enough for 
> drive chains on eighty or so hp motorcycles that were frequently ridden in 
> the rain, it was good enough for our bicycles.  I suspect the trick with 
> drive chains, whether on bicycles, motorcycles or a manure spreaders is 
> keeping the chain clean.  
>
> I'm not advocating or recommending.  I'm merely sharing my experience.
>
> Stan
>
>
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Hot Waxing Chains

[stanwas...@bellsouth.net]

I suspect I'll get a lot of grief for this...

For many years I've been using WD-40 on our bicycle chains.  I spray it on 
while spinning the chain, let it set for a half hour or so and wipe the 
excess off with a paper shop towel.  

I first started using WD on the O-ring drive chains on our Ducati 
motorcycles.  We had been riding BMW shaft drive bikes for years and I 
wasn't sure what to do with lubing motorcycle chains.  The fellow who was 
president of the local Ducati club, who had a LOT of bikes, suggested 
WD-40. 

In 1986 he had purchased a new Suzuki GSXR750, a pretty powerful bike at 
the time, and decided to experiment with WD-40 as a chain lube.  He would 
apply the WD at the end of a ride.

We bought the Ducs and met Jim around 2000.  He was running the original 
chain on the Gixxer then, so I figured I'd give it a shot.  I did that for 
our road bikes and my track bike as well.  Never had any problems and had 
normal service life from the chains.  I figured that it was good enough for 
drive chains on eighty or so hp motorcycles that were frequently ridden in 
the rain, it was good enough for our bicycles.  I suspect the trick with 
drive chains, whether on bicycles, motorcycles or a manure spreaders is 
keeping the chain clean.  

I'm not advocating or recommending.  I'm merely sharing my experience.

Stan



On Wednesday, July 29, 2020 at 4:17:08 PM UTC-4, ☆ Paul ☆ wrote:
>
> Has anyone ever tried cleaning their chain and NEVER applying lube at ALL?
>
> This may be an absolutely idiotic question, but there are all kinds of 
> posts all over the web about people who think lube is a scam, but I can't 
> find anyone that has actually tested the theory with a top-quality chain.
>
> I've ridden belt drive bikes exclusively for the last 12 years, until I 
> bought an Atlantis recently and my life changed. The one nice thing about 
> belts is you just hose off the bike now and then.
>
> Paul
>
> On Wednesday, July 29, 2020 at 3:33:00 PM UTC-4 Deacon Patrick wrote:
>
>> Put on NFS for the first time today. 12 drops on my lng 1x9 Gus's 
>> chain, in high gear (small cog), back spun 12 times, no wipe. It shifted 
>> wonderfully smooth. I'll see how long it goes before asking for more and 
>> how it handles mud and frozen slop; however, so far I'm impressed.
>>
>> With abandon,
>> Patrick
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Hot Waxing Chains

[Bill Eberle in Portland OR]

Rohloff® Special Bike Chain Lubricant claims to be "rapidly biodegradable". It 
says so on the bottle. I've always suspected it's some sort of vegetable oil, 
maybe even olive oil. I use it on my Wipperman chain, but not on my salad. It 
works as well or better than other stuff I've tried over many years and cleans 
up more easily than petroleum based lubes. I use Chain Drain Bean Clean for 
that.

Bill in PDX

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Re: [RBW] Re: Hot Waxing Chains

[Patrick Moore]

I've never tried it, but I seem to recall a lab test of bicycle chains
lubricated with different substances, and the researchers finding that a
perfectly dry but clean chain performed as well as a clean, well-lubed
chain. Can anyone recall this study and the report?

Patrick Moore, who remembers Grant speculating long, long ago about using
olive oil on chains.

On Wed, Jul 29, 2020 at 2:17 PM ☆ Paul ☆  wrote:

> Has anyone ever tried cleaning their chain and NEVER applying lube at ALL?
>
> This may be an absolutely idiotic question, but there are all kinds of
> posts all over the web about people who think lube is a scam, but I can't
> find anyone that has actually tested the theory with a top-quality chain.
>
> I've ridden belt drive bikes exclusively for the last 12 years, until I
> bought an Atlantis recently and my life changed. The one nice thing about
> belts is you just hose off the bike now and then.
>
> Paul
>
>
-- 

---
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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Re: [RBW] Re: Hot Waxing Chains

[☆ Paul ☆]

Has anyone ever tried cleaning their chain and NEVER applying lube at ALL?

This may be an absolutely idiotic question, but there are all kinds of 
posts all over the web about people who think lube is a scam, but I can't 
find anyone that has actually tested the theory with a top-quality chain.

I've ridden belt drive bikes exclusively for the last 12 years, until I 
bought an Atlantis recently and my life changed. The one nice thing about 
belts is you just hose off the bike now and then.

Paul

On Wednesday, July 29, 2020 at 3:33:00 PM UTC-4 Deacon Patrick wrote:

> Put on NFS for the first time today. 12 drops on my lng 1x9 Gus's 
> chain, in high gear (small cog), back spun 12 times, no wipe. It shifted 
> wonderfully smooth. I'll see how long it goes before asking for more and 
> how it handles mud and frozen slop; however, so far I'm impressed.
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Hot Waxing Chains

['Deacon Patrick' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Put on NFS for the first time today. 12 drops on my lng 1x9 Gus's 
chain, in high gear (small cog), back spun 12 times, no wipe. It shifted 
wonderfully smooth. I'll see how long it goes before asking for more and 
how it handles mud and frozen slop; however, so far I'm impressed.

With abandon,
Patrick

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Re: [RBW] Re: Hot Waxing Chains

[James Valiensi]

This thread title sounds like a name for a topless bar…
Use oil on your chain. Chain-L will last 10K miles.

> On Jul 20, 2020, at 2:39 PM, Lyman Labry  wrote:
> 
> This is interesting thread.  My new riv bike received May 5th must have some 
> type of wax treatment on it.  I’ve ridden it daily and drivetrain still looks 
> clean. Do you know who riv folks use on their bikes?  Also, wondering what 
> they clean drivetrain with before treating.  Thanks!
> 
> On Sun, Jul 19, 2020 at 3:42 PM Michael Hechmer  > wrote:
> So.  To come back to this.  I ordered a bottle of Nix Frix Shun NFX, and have 
> been using it on my two bikes, my wife's bike and our tandem this summer.  
> The results have been excellent.  I don't know how much is this particular 
> lube or is application method, including wiping the outside  chain after 
> every ride; but I'm sold.  We ride predominantly on dirt roads and gravel 
> bike paths and my chains have remained clean and quiet since late May.  
> Actually, I found after three or four rides I really didn't need to wipe the 
> chain.  A big thank you to the people who recommended it.
> 
> Michael
> 
> On Thursday, May 28, 2020 at 7:18:22 PM UTC-4, Michael Hechmer wrote:
> Greetings, one and all.  It has been a long time, at least a few years, since 
> my last post and I am just assuming my membership is still active.
> 
> At 75+, I still ride regularly, although not the distances I used to.  I live 
> in a small town in far northern VT, which has mostly dirt roads. I just ride; 
> I don't desire new stuff nor do anything heroic worth writing about.  I have 
> a Ramboulliet, a Trek 620, An early Saluki (my goto ride), and a custom 
> Bilenky touring tandem.  My wife rides a Betty Foy and my daughter a Cheviot. 
>   All but the Trek have fenders but that's still a lot of chains out on dirty 
> roads and a lot of messy time cleaning them.
> 
> Can you teach an old dog new tricks?  Well maybe.   I clean the chains, rings 
> and cogs with mineral spirits and citrosol.  I use a standard oil lube and 
> wipe them down as best I can.  The process of wiping down the chains 
> inevitably contaminates the rings and cogs with oil and the first ride bleeds 
> oil from the inside to the outside of the chain.  The oil collects dirt, 
> which wears down rings and cogs.  (I just ordered three new rings today, so 
> I'm focused).  Every time I go through this process of cleaning 9 chains, I 
> watch a youtube video on chain waxing but get put off by the initial effort 
> and purchase of a crock pot, ultrasonic cleaner, etc; and wonder if it would 
> really improve this process ; keep the chain cleaner and reduce wear?
> 
> Your experience, appreciated.
> 
> Michael
> 
> 
> 
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> .
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Re: [RBW] Re: Hot Waxing Chains

[Lyman Labry]

This is interesting thread.  My new riv bike received May 5th must have
some type of wax treatment on it.  I’ve ridden it daily and drivetrain
still looks clean. Do you know who riv folks use on their bikes?  Also,
wondering what they clean drivetrain with before treating.  Thanks!

On Sun, Jul 19, 2020 at 3:42 PM Michael Hechmer  wrote:

> So.  To come back to this.  I ordered a bottle of Nix Frix Shun NFX, and
> have been using it on my two bikes, my wife's bike and our tandem this
> summer.  The results have been excellent.  I don't know how much is this
> particular lube or is application method, including wiping the outside
>  chain after every ride; but I'm sold.  We ride predominantly on dirt roads
> and gravel bike paths and my chains have remained clean and quiet since
> late May.  Actually, I found after three or four rides I really didn't need
> to wipe the chain.  A big thank you to the people who recommended it.
>
> Michael
>
> On Thursday, May 28, 2020 at 7:18:22 PM UTC-4, Michael Hechmer wrote:
>>
>> Greetings, one and all.  It has been a long time, at least a few years,
>> since my last post and I am just assuming my membership is still active.
>>
>> At 75+, I still ride regularly, although not the distances I used to.  I
>> live in a small town in far northern VT, which has mostly dirt roads. I
>> just ride; I don't desire new stuff nor do anything heroic worth writing
>> about.  I have a Ramboulliet, a Trek 620, An early Saluki (my goto ride),
>> and a custom Bilenky touring tandem.  My wife rides a Betty Foy and my
>> daughter a Cheviot.   All but the Trek have fenders but that's still a lot
>> of chains out on dirty roads and a lot of messy time cleaning them.
>>
>> Can you teach an old dog new tricks?  Well maybe.   I clean the chains,
>> rings and cogs with mineral spirits and citrosol.  I use a standard oil
>> lube and wipe them down as best I can.  The process of wiping down the
>> chains inevitably contaminates the rings and cogs with oil and the first
>> ride bleeds oil from the inside to the outside of the chain.  The oil
>> collects dirt, which wears down rings and cogs.  (I just ordered three new
>> rings today, so I'm focused).  Every time I go through this process of
>> cleaning 9 chains, I watch a youtube video on chain waxing but get put off
>> by the initial effort and purchase of a crock pot, ultrasonic cleaner, etc;
>> and wonder if it would really improve this process ; keep the chain cleaner
>> and reduce wear?
>>
>> Your experience, appreciated.
>>
>> Michael
>>
>>
>> --
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> .
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Hot Waxing Chains

[Steven Sweedler]

For me the 12 drops part is big, and that  it last longer and is cleaner,
I’m a fan.   Steve

On Sat, Jun 6, 2020 at 1:02 PM eddietheflay  wrote:

> it is kinda of interesting the high percentage of relatively high praise
> for NFS. i like it a lot but can't quantify why. it just seems to work
> really well.
>
> On Thursday, May 28, 2020 at 4:18:22 PM UTC-7, Michael Hechmer wrote:
>>
>> Greetings, one and all.  It has been a long time, at least a few years,
>> since my last post and I am just assuming my membership is still active.
>>
>> At 75+, I still ride regularly, although not the distances I used to.  I
>> live in a small town in far northern VT, which has mostly dirt roads. I
>> just ride; I don't desire new stuff nor do anything heroic worth writing
>> about.  I have a Ramboulliet, a Trek 620, An early Saluki (my goto ride),
>> and a custom Bilenky touring tandem.  My wife rides a Betty Foy and my
>> daughter a Cheviot.   All but the Trek have fenders but that's still a lot
>> of chains out on dirty roads and a lot of messy time cleaning them.
>>
>> Can you teach an old dog new tricks?  Well maybe.   I clean the chains,
>> rings and cogs with mineral spirits and citrosol.  I use a standard oil
>> lube and wipe them down as best I can.  The process of wiping down the
>> chains inevitably contaminates the rings and cogs with oil and the first
>> ride bleeds oil from the inside to the outside of the chain.  The oil
>> collects dirt, which wears down rings and cogs.  (I just ordered three new
>> rings today, so I'm focused).  Every time I go through this process of
>> cleaning 9 chains, I watch a youtube video on chain waxing but get put off
>> by the initial effort and purchase of a crock pot, ultrasonic cleaner, etc;
>> and wonder if it would really improve this process ; keep the chain cleaner
>> and reduce wear?
>>
>> Your experience, appreciated.
>>
>> Michael
>>
>>
>> --
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> 
> .
>
-- 
Steven Sweedler
Plymouth, New Hampshire

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Re: [RBW] Re: Hot Waxing Chains

[Patrick Moore]

I should be clear: For success with MSW, clean the chain thoroughly for the
first application; thereafter, no need to clean, just dunk it in and let
soak.

On Sat, May 30, 2020 at 11:00 AM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> Michael: FWIW, you don't need ultrasonic cleaning for Molten Wax success;
> just do an initial bath in mineral spirits with brush, and wash in hot
> water with detergent, rinse, and let dry.
>
> I find your attitude towards tools and instruments very interesting and
> appealing; that is how I look at my bikes, and one reason I am so
> particular about how they are set up.
>
> On Sat, May 30, 2020 at 5:02 AM Michael Hechmer 
> wrote:
>
>> What an interesting conversation!  I had no idea when I originally
>> asked.  Now I see that what Deacon does works for Deacon and what Doug, or
>> Patrick, or Rich, or.. anyone else does probably works for them and not
>> just because of physics but because of lifestyle and personality.
>>
>> I have three hobbies - hand tool woodworking, bike riding, and tending a
>> small garden.  All three of them have in common that they use tools as an
>> extension of my body and soul.  It's important to me that the tools work
>> seamlessly with my body.  My woodworking tool collection includes some that
>> are a hundred years old, some that are forty and some that are brand new,
>> but each one is a joy to hold and use.  I maintain them meticulously.  Same
>> goes for my bicycles.  I want it to run quietly, respond predictably and
>> shift perfectly, every time. That's why I ride Rivendells.  I run  a 9
>> speed friction set up and find this works great if I start with high
>> quality parts and keep them in good condition.  I'm also constitutionally
>> opposed to a throw away world.  (I once brought a twenty five year old
>> microwave into a repair shop, only to be greeted with gales of laughter)  I
>> recently brought  a Milwaukee drill into a shop to get the switch
>> replaced.  The service man took one look at it and said, "You've had this
>> awhile haven't you."  and I thought OMG, I've become my father!  I run
>> ultegra cassettes, connex chains and Sugino's best rings,  White's or TAs.
>> Letting them wear out prematurely is not a good option.
>>
>> I appreciate all the feedback.  Thank you all.  I think I'm going to give
>> Squirt a try.  I've been looking at sonic cleaners on line.  Everyone I
>> looked at in the $75 range seemed to have about a 15% early failure rate.
>> The Molten site sells one for $139 plus up to $25 for shipping.  Ouch.
>> Maybe I'll give more traditional cleaning methods a deeper try as a prep
>> for wax.
>>
>> Doug reminds me that on a sticky hot day,  going down into the cool of
>> the basement and cleaning bike parts isn't all bad.
>>
>> Michael
>>
>> On Friday, May 29, 2020 at 11:43:15 PM UTC-4, dougP wrote:
>>>
>>> *"So the real issue is, how much of my life do I want to give up trying
>>> to extend the life of chainrings?*
>>>
>>> Michael:
>>>
>>> You've hit on the core question.  There are so many different situations
>>> that it's hard to generalize.  There is no optimal solution for all
>>> conditions.  The questions for each of us should be:
>>>
>>> 1.  How long do I expect drivetrain parts to last?  If you ride 2,000
>>> miles per year, and get a year out of a chain & cassette, and a couple of
>>> years out of chainrings, then you may want to be more diligent about
>>> cleaning & lubrication, esp. if it's a big hit money-wise.  OTH, if you get
>>> many years out of your drive train and / or the financial incentive is low,
>>> you can be more casual.  The occasional spritz with whatever your LBS is
>>> selling will work.
>>>
>>> 2.  How much trouble & effort do I want to expend on this to optimize
>>> drive train life?  If it's a satisfying chore you don't mind doing, then
>>> some combo of thorough cleaning & careful lubrication is for you.  Everyone
>>> needs a hobby.  OTH, if the whole thing is a huge PITA that you put off
>>> doing, then the casual spritz works.
>>>
>>>  Related considerations:
>>>
>>> 3.   Cost of components:  7-8-9 speed cassettes are under $30; chains
>>> under $20.  Decent chainrings are $25.  What's the real value of trying to
>>> squeeze a bit of extra life out these?  Are you a student on a tight budget
>>> or retired with plenty of cash?  OTH, if you're into the latest drivetrain
>>> components such as 11 & 12 speed, now you're looking at a whole lot more
>>> money.
>>>
>>> 4.  Riding mileage: Does each bike get perhaps 1,000 miles per year or
>>> 10,000 miles?  Lower mileage suggests more casual care may work.  Higher
>>> mileage requires more effort (either time or money) to keep things ticking
>>> over properly.
>>>
>>> 5.  Climate: If you're in a dry, clean climate, you get more miles out
>>> of a lube job.  However, wet and / or dusty or dirty environments are tough
>>> on chains et al.  E..g., I'm in a warm, dry, dust free climate.  What works
>>> in my climate would be a disaster for me in 

Re: [RBW] Re: Hot Waxing Chains

[Patrick Moore]

Michael: FWIW, you don't need ultrasonic cleaning for Molten Wax success;
just do an initial bath in mineral spirits with brush, and wash in hot
water with detergent, rinse, and let dry.

I find your attitude towards tools and instruments very interesting and
appealing; that is how I look at my bikes, and one reason I am so
particular about how they are set up.

On Sat, May 30, 2020 at 5:02 AM Michael Hechmer  wrote:

> What an interesting conversation!  I had no idea when I originally asked.
> Now I see that what Deacon does works for Deacon and what Doug, or Patrick,
> or Rich, or.. anyone else does probably works for them and not just
> because of physics but because of lifestyle and personality.
>
> I have three hobbies - hand tool woodworking, bike riding, and tending a
> small garden.  All three of them have in common that they use tools as an
> extension of my body and soul.  It's important to me that the tools work
> seamlessly with my body.  My woodworking tool collection includes some that
> are a hundred years old, some that are forty and some that are brand new,
> but each one is a joy to hold and use.  I maintain them meticulously.  Same
> goes for my bicycles.  I want it to run quietly, respond predictably and
> shift perfectly, every time. That's why I ride Rivendells.  I run  a 9
> speed friction set up and find this works great if I start with high
> quality parts and keep them in good condition.  I'm also constitutionally
> opposed to a throw away world.  (I once brought a twenty five year old
> microwave into a repair shop, only to be greeted with gales of laughter)  I
> recently brought  a Milwaukee drill into a shop to get the switch
> replaced.  The service man took one look at it and said, "You've had this
> awhile haven't you."  and I thought OMG, I've become my father!  I run
> ultegra cassettes, connex chains and Sugino's best rings,  White's or TAs.
> Letting them wear out prematurely is not a good option.
>
> I appreciate all the feedback.  Thank you all.  I think I'm going to give
> Squirt a try.  I've been looking at sonic cleaners on line.  Everyone I
> looked at in the $75 range seemed to have about a 15% early failure rate.
> The Molten site sells one for $139 plus up to $25 for shipping.  Ouch.
> Maybe I'll give more traditional cleaning methods a deeper try as a prep
> for wax.
>
> Doug reminds me that on a sticky hot day,  going down into the cool of the
> basement and cleaning bike parts isn't all bad.
>
> Michael
>
> On Friday, May 29, 2020 at 11:43:15 PM UTC-4, dougP wrote:
>>
>> *"So the real issue is, how much of my life do I want to give up trying
>> to extend the life of chainrings?*
>>
>> Michael:
>>
>> You've hit on the core question.  There are so many different situations
>> that it's hard to generalize.  There is no optimal solution for all
>> conditions.  The questions for each of us should be:
>>
>> 1.  How long do I expect drivetrain parts to last?  If you ride 2,000
>> miles per year, and get a year out of a chain & cassette, and a couple of
>> years out of chainrings, then you may want to be more diligent about
>> cleaning & lubrication, esp. if it's a big hit money-wise.  OTH, if you get
>> many years out of your drive train and / or the financial incentive is low,
>> you can be more casual.  The occasional spritz with whatever your LBS is
>> selling will work.
>>
>> 2.  How much trouble & effort do I want to expend on this to optimize
>> drive train life?  If it's a satisfying chore you don't mind doing, then
>> some combo of thorough cleaning & careful lubrication is for you.  Everyone
>> needs a hobby.  OTH, if the whole thing is a huge PITA that you put off
>> doing, then the casual spritz works.
>>
>>  Related considerations:
>>
>> 3.   Cost of components:  7-8-9 speed cassettes are under $30; chains
>> under $20.  Decent chainrings are $25.  What's the real value of trying to
>> squeeze a bit of extra life out these?  Are you a student on a tight budget
>> or retired with plenty of cash?  OTH, if you're into the latest drivetrain
>> components such as 11 & 12 speed, now you're looking at a whole lot more
>> money.
>>
>> 4.  Riding mileage: Does each bike get perhaps 1,000 miles per year or
>> 10,000 miles?  Lower mileage suggests more casual care may work.  Higher
>> mileage requires more effort (either time or money) to keep things ticking
>> over properly.
>>
>> 5.  Climate: If you're in a dry, clean climate, you get more miles out of
>> a lube job.  However, wet and / or dusty or dirty environments are tough on
>> chains et al.  E..g., I'm in a warm, dry, dust free climate.  What works in
>> my climate would be a disaster for me in Deacon Patrick's climate.  Wax
>> doesn't like wet conditions.
>>
>> Hope this helps the evaluation process.
>>
>> dougP
>>
>>
>>
>> On Friday, May 29, 2020 at 4:30:40 PM UTC-7, Michael Hechmer wrote:
>>>
>>> Deacon, how good to connect with you again, even when I think you are
>>> wrong!  At one level you are 

Re: [RBW] Re: Hot Waxing Chains

[Benjamin L. Kelley]

I gave hot waxing a go last year. It worked, but not better than other
"dry" lubes, and was more hassle I found. I tried Finish Line's dry lube
and found it to be as dirty as regular wet lubes and didn't last very long.
I ended up back with Squirt. It's as clean as hot waxing as far as
attracting grit and grime. Lasts a good while, as long as hot wax it seems.
It is wax in a water based emulsion so goes on easily.  They have a regular
and a low temp version.

--ben


On Thu, May 28, 2020 at 9:57 PM dougP  wrote:

> Michael:
>
> I find that waxing leaves the chain clean so that it doesn't attract
> dirt.  Even riding off-road it can be simply wiped down.  However, I've
> also done some touring in wet climates & need to take along a conventional
> chain lube as the wax doesn't hold up well in a wet climate.  It is a
> hassle to go thru the process, and 9 chains would take a lot of time.  My
> wife & I only one bike each to doing a few times a year is not a big chore
> for me.  Some time ago, she picked up a fondue pot at a garage sale or
> something, cheap, and it's perfect for one chain at a time.  I just use
> ordinary canning wax (paraffin?), nothing biking specific.
>
> I understand there are also liquid wax chain products but have never tried
> them.  It may be an option for you to consider.
>
> dougP
>
> On Thursday, May 28, 2020 at 4:18:22 PM UTC-7, Michael Hechmer wrote:
>>
>> Greetings, one and all.  It has been a long time, at least a few years,
>> since my last post and I am just assuming my membership is still active.
>>
>> At 75+, I still ride regularly, although not the distances I used to.  I
>> live in a small town in far northern VT, which has mostly dirt roads. I
>> just ride; I don't desire new stuff nor do anything heroic worth writing
>> about.  I have a Ramboulliet, a Trek 620, An early Saluki (my goto ride),
>> and a custom Bilenky touring tandem.  My wife rides a Betty Foy and my
>> daughter a Cheviot.   All but the Trek have fenders but that's still a lot
>> of chains out on dirty roads and a lot of messy time cleaning them.
>>
>> Can you teach an old dog new tricks?  Well maybe.   I clean the chains,
>> rings and cogs with mineral spirits and citrosol.  I use a standard oil
>> lube and wipe them down as best I can.  The process of wiping down the
>> chains inevitably contaminates the rings and cogs with oil and the first
>> ride bleeds oil from the inside to the outside of the chain.  The oil
>> collects dirt, which wears down rings and cogs.  (I just ordered three new
>> rings today, so I'm focused).  Every time I go through this process of
>> cleaning 9 chains, I watch a youtube video on chain waxing but get put off
>> by the initial effort and purchase of a crock pot, ultrasonic cleaner, etc;
>> and wonder if it would really improve this process ; keep the chain cleaner
>> and reduce wear?
>>
>> Your experience, appreciated.
>>
>> Michael
>>
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Hot waxing chains?

[Patrick Moore]

The stuff collects at the bottom of the crockpot and, if you exercise
sufficient care and don't stir up the wax when you remove the chain, I
daresay it stays on the bottom and leaves only clean wax to penetrate the
innards of the chain. I'm still on the same 1 1/2 pint of mineral spirits I
first decanted for parts cleaning 2 years or so ago -- I just let the gunk
settle to the bottom.

On Tue, Jun 5, 2018 at 1:36 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:

>
> With this method, the wax does collect fine crud ...
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Hot waxing chains?

[Patrick Moore]

Dave has a hyper-thorough chain maintenance method, but Molten Wax works
well with less caring regimens, too. I thoroughly cleaned my chain before
the original waxing, per the company's instructions (mineral spirits and
hot water and detergent), but thereafter I've just removed the chain (still
clean on the outside despite our sand and dust) and plunked it onto the
cold, solid wax in the crockpot. Turn the crockpot on, walk away, come back
in an hour or so, dip out with a hook, wiped down*, let cool, and install.

With this method, the wax does collect fine crud and won't last as long,
but it's a heckofalot cleaner, and easier too, than dribbling lube from a
bottle onto the links, letting dry, and wiping thoroughly.

*This step removes most of the wax crust that otherwise forms on the chain
and flakes off on your garage floor.

On Tue, Jun 5, 2018 at 6:59 AM, eddietheflay  wrote:

> the guy in the kitchen vid did not say anything about the alcohol step
> after cleaning his new chain in mineral spirits.
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Hot waxing chains?

[Patrick Moore]

Garth's method doesn't work well in very sandy or dusty environments. Oils
grit the chain up immediately; most "dry" lubes build up into waxy gunk,
and in any case, applying liquid lube over a gritty chain just leaches grit
into the innards.

With the Molten wax I described just now, you clean your chain for the
initial application, and just melt and dunk thereafter.

BTW, use an old crockpot, $5 at Goodwill. But a small one, and one that has
a removeable ceramic pot, which makes cleaning easier, once you have to
replace the wax.

On Sat, Jun 2, 2018 at 6:30 AM, Garth  wrote:

>
> Search google for*hot wax chains cycling   . *
>
> Scroll  Pick and choose a link .
>
> Asking if it's worth it or not , you will get yes it's worth it and no
> it's not.  No surprise .
>
> A lube is a lube is a lube . those that claim "mine is best" are
> simply defending their choice only.  The "best" is the one you got.  I've
> done hot wax, Squirt Lube water based wax lube, White Lightning Clean Ride
> petro based wax lube, and the usual plethora of oil based stuff.   What I
> found rather silly is that apply wax lubes ... you must clean the chain
> first thereby contradicting "not cleaning the chain" !   Seems like a
> perfectly good waste of factory lube already there. Clean Ride and Squirt
> are the only wax ones that you never ever clean the chain for the life of
> the chain past the initial cleaning, you reapply as needed. Hot wax needs
> reapplied, pita if you ask me, time and effort .
>
> Anyways, I've gone back to just slapping on the new chain, wiping it every
> so often, blow debris off with a compressor and reapply on bike with
> whatever oil. The most important part of a chain is INSIDE , and once you
> use solvent and remove it, it's not so easy to get it back it at all.
> Factory lubes are done with heat and pressure, to penetrate the links.  No
> one can do that at home.
>
> For myself ... "time" spent cleaning and lubing a chain frequently  is
> not "free" .  Only FREE is free, no exception, no debate, no alternative.
>
> This all said, I don't ride in the rain if I can avoid it. This is just
> one perspective  viva la Infinity  :-)
>
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