Re: [RBW] XL frames and 650b experiences

[Jim Bronson]

Yes, prior to the conversion I could barely fit Grand Bois Cypres tires and
fenders were out of the question even with 700x28 gatorskins.  Short reach
brakes.

The conversion makes it much more user friendly, if a bit lower to the
ground.

On Tue, Nov 8, 2016 at 2:19 PM, Ryan Fleming 
wrote:

> then I'll be wishing I'd bought Mark Reimer's wheelset he has for sale
> ...with the 700c wheelset I couldn't squeeze much more than 32mm tires even
> without fenders
>
>
> On Tuesday, November 8, 2016 at 12:26:20 PM UTC-6, ttoshi wrote:
>>
>> Hi Ryan,
>>
>> If you are running 32 mm, you should be able to get 38 mm up to 42 mm
>> with the conversion, so it would be really nice.
>>
>> The chainstays limited my width for my non-Riv conversions, but my Ram
>> conversion had no problem going to 42 mm.
>>
>> Good luck!
>> Toshi
>>
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Re: [RBW] XL frames and 650b experiences

[Ryan Fleming]

then I'll be wishing I'd bought Mark Reimer's wheelset he has for sale 
...with the 700c wheelset I couldn't squeeze much more than 32mm tires even 
without fenders 

On Tuesday, November 8, 2016 at 12:26:20 PM UTC-6, ttoshi wrote:
>
> Hi Ryan,
>
> If you are running 32 mm, you should be able to get 38 mm up to 42 mm with 
> the conversion, so it would be really nice.
>
> The chainstays limited my width for my non-Riv conversions, but my Ram 
> conversion had no problem going to 42 mm.
>
> Good luck!
> Toshi
>
>

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Re: [RBW] XL frames and 650b experiences

[Jim Bronson]

I put together an album of action shots on my 650B converted Riv, here they
are:
https://flic.kr/s/aHskGLZQGt

Yes, I know my fenderline sucks pretty bad.  Oh well.  :)

Regarding Toshi's comments, on these older Rivs the chainstays are not
squeezed (dimpled?) for larger tires, so 38mm is the max normally.  I need
to get my top tube replaced soon so when I get that done I will probably
have them put the dents in the chainstays to fit the 42s, along with a few
other things.

I have a Redwood also that is not converted, I'm running 700x38c Barlow
Pass on it, un-fendered.  It does have the dimpled chainstays so is
actually probably a better candidate for conversion because it should fit
the 42s or even the 48s as one other poster did on a Redwood.  I just don't
have time to mess with it right now as I have a new baby and a sick wife.
I'm barely getting to ride at all at the moment.  But that's life sometimes.

Jim

On Tue, Nov 8, 2016 at 11:15 AM, Abcyclehank  wrote:

> Jim
> Sounds like your bike is what I am trying to clone.  Mine is 2000 or 2001
> slate blue metallic with cream head tube and accents.
> It is not my goal to use the long cranks, hammering along is in my past,
> just looking for comfortable spinning on great tires mile after mile here
> in my retirement.
>  I have/use 48cm drops for my broad shoulders.  Time to start building.
> Wish I was better at posting pictures to this list.  Will try it again
> maybe with links to a flicker account.
>
> Sincerely,
> Ryan Hankinson
>
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Re: [RBW] XL frames and 650b experiences

[Toshi Takeuchi]

Hi Ryan,

If you are running 32 mm, you should be able to get 38 mm up to 42 mm with
the conversion, so it would be really nice.

The chainstays limited my width for my non-Riv conversions, but my Ram
conversion had no problem going to 42 mm.

Good luck!
Toshi

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Re: [RBW] XL frames and 650b experiences

[Andrew Patteson]

Thank you, Ryan.  I had one nice bruise but nothing at all bothersome... 
the bike has a bent fork and a bent top tube, so while I still have the 
frame hanging in my shed, I kind of doubt it will ever see road again.  
What a great, great ride it was.  Just about all of the components in the 
photo are now hanging on a same-year Bianchi Limited.  Some will be making 
their way to a '74 Motobecane Grand Record 650b build I am (very slowly) 
working on.

And yikes!!  Sorry to hear it.  I hope you heal quickly and are back 
rolling soon.

Best wishes,
Andrew in SLC

On Monday, November 7, 2016 at 12:02:28 PM UTC-7, Ryan Fleming wrote:
>
> Well...I sincerely  hope that you, at least,  are OK, but that is too bad 
> about your bike. I hope it is tragic accident  and not  a fatal one for 
> your bike
>
> Ryan  in Winnipeg who now knows  she has  compression fracture of a lower 
> vertebra and with  our lovely November is making do with walking and not 
> riding yet. But the X0-1 appears to be fine
>
> On Sunday, November 6, 2016 at 5:47:36 PM UTC-6, Andrew Patteson wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>> Here's my 1983 Trek 600.  It had a tragic encounter with a curb a few 
>> weeks after this was taken :(
>>
>> Go for it!  Most issues can be worked out or around but really long 
>> cranks might be a problem.
>>
>> Andrew in SLC
>>
>> On Sunday, November 6, 2016 at 1:19:50 PM UTC-7, Abcyclehank wrote:
>>>
>>> Eric 
>>> Both of these examples are beautiful.  Provided a ton of potential 
>>> answers.  Areas of concern currently are brake issues but I have a set of 
>>> Silvers, and am willing to modify if necessary (although looks fine during 
>>> mock up).  Bottom bracket drop also is a potential concern asI generally 
>>> run 180mm-200mm cranks.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Ryan Hankinson
>>>
>>> Follow up thought... Is it possible to convert a bike with 
>>> canti-brakes?
>>>
>>>

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Re: [RBW] XL frames and 650b experiences

[Ryan Fleming]

yes...let us see how it all turns out...+ 1 on finding nice Compass tires 
of suitable width for comfortable spinning...they are great tires and 
complement those older Riv roads very nicely...I have 32 Stampede Pass 
tires on my 2001 Curt Goodrich built bike...56 cm frame with 700c wheels. 
My foray into 650B will be the mixte. 

On Tuesday, November 8, 2016 at 11:15:50 AM UTC-6, Abcyclehank wrote:
>
> Jim
> Sounds like your bike is what I am trying to clone.  Mine is 2000 or 2001 
> slate blue metallic with cream head tube and accents.  
> It is not my goal to use the long cranks, hammering along is in my past, 
> just looking for comfortable spinning on great tires mile after mile here 
> in my retirement. 
>  I have/use 48cm drops for my broad shoulders.  Time to start building. 
>  Wish I was better at posting pictures to this list.  Will try it again 
> maybe with links to a flicker account.
>
> Sincerely,
> Ryan Hankinson
>

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Re: [RBW] XL frames and 650b experiences

[Abcyclehank]

Jim
Sounds like your bike is what I am trying to clone.  Mine is 2000 or 2001 slate 
blue metallic with cream head tube and accents.  
It is not my goal to use the long cranks, hammering along is in my past, just 
looking for comfortable spinning on great tires mile after mile here in my 
retirement. 
 I have/use 48cm drops for my broad shoulders.  Time to start building.  Wish I 
was better at posting pictures to this list.  Will try it again maybe with 
links to a flicker account.

Sincerely,
Ryan Hankinson

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Re: [RBW] XL frames and 650b experiences

[Jim Bronson]

I have my 68ST/64TT 90s Riv Custom or Road Standard (not sure which)
converted to 650b.  It is a Joe Starck brazed frame also.  Max clearance on
my frame is for
38mm wide tires so I'm running 650x38b Compass Loup Loups.  Caliper says
they measure the full 38mm wide on my rims.
Brakes are Tektro R559.  46cm Noodles (may try 48s next time), 100mm
extension on Nitto quill stem.

BB clearance is low with the conversion.  It's fine for me with 175s, I
scraped a few times at first, but after that I got used to the more limited
clearance.
I wouldn't go thinking you can run big man cranks on a frame of this
vintage (assuming yours is like mine).
Maybe 180s will work, but 200s, well, no way in h-e-double chopsticks that
would work.()
If you have to have 200s I would go get a custom 650b frame instead purpose
built.  Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but the ultra long cranks
just will not work on a converted Riv with the sorts of BB drop specs that
Riv normally puts in their frames.

I don't have the brake problems that Eric Daume opined about.  The R559s
work acceptably with the stock pads.
I'm sure the Koolstop Salmons would upgrade the available braking power but
the stock pads are quiet.

I have ridden approximately 11,000km in brevets on this combo (results
verifiable on RUSA site)
and all the other rides I do but for fun and puttering around as well which
I don't have a count for but maybe another 5,000-7,000k-ish or so.

Jim

On Sun, Nov 6, 2016 at 8:39 AM, Abcyclehank  wrote:

> Just completed my fleet by purchasing a Joe/Joe 68cm Riv Custom frameset.
> Considering a 650b build possibly due to severe overlap of ride options.
> Plan to reconfigure the 68cm Atlantis and 64cm Bombadil also. Will
> constitute my winter projects here during an uncertain Michigan winter.
> Currently 60 degrees on Nov. 6th, loving the extended fall riding season.
> Not even thinking about hanging up the classics and dragging out the XXL
> Moonlander yet.
>
> What specific experiences have fellow listers had with conversions?
>
> Ryan Hankinson
> West Michigan
>
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Re: [RBW] XL frames and 650b experiences

[Abcyclehank]

Garth is 100% correct, like Rivendell who meets the needs of 100PBH riders some 
manufactures also make special length cranks.  I have 2 sets one High Sierra 
and one Zinn they are identical.  I have even tried a 210mm once but passed it 
along.  Fortunately I find no comfort issue switching between 180-200 cranks.

Speaking of anyone who might have 183mm Silver Cranks I would be happy to trade 
with you or buy them from you.

Sincerely,
Ryan

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Re: [RBW] XL frames and 650b experiences

[Garth]

  Yes, IRD, DaVinci, Zinn, High Sierra Cycles(the mfr. of Zinn cranks but 
also sell under their own name) and Zen cranks come to mind. 

Of course, crank length "theory" is another story without any end. 


On Monday, November 7, 2016 at 10:10:00 PM UTC-5, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
> Are there any cranks 3 cm longer than 170s?
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] XL frames and 650b experiences

[Abcyclehank]

Toshi. 
I am not converting the Atlantis or Bomba.  
Rather the 68cm custom Riv. or a 73cm custom Mark Nobilette with Canti brakes 
comparable to a Hilsen.
The Nobilette has 32mm tires now but that is almost max.
I could get 38-42mm on the Custom if converted.
I will run a 175 or 170 crank.  I have 2 nice wheel sets and a full build for a 
Betty that is not going to be used by this riding family.

Ryan

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Re: [RBW] XL frames and 650b experiences

[Steve Palincsar]

Are there any cranks 3 cm longer than 170s?


On 11/07/2016 06:54 PM, Toshi Takeuchi wrote:
I don't usually fret about BB height on my 650b conversions, but use 
170 mm cranks.  However, adding 1-3 cm of crank length would have me 
concerned enough to not recommend it.  I've scraped road twice in 
thousands of miles with SPD pedals (sorta bounced the pedal off the 
road--not any danger of crashing).  Most of my miles have been with a 
650b Ram.


Besides, the benefit for 650b conversions (for me) is to gain in max 
tire width, which is beneficial for the plush ride and safer in terms 
of handling cracks and potholes in the road.  I can't tell if you are 
thinking about converting your Hunq or Atlantis, but it doesn't seem 
to be of benefit in terms of tire width, because those bikes can 
handle wide tires already?


Toshi


On Mon, Nov 7, 2016 at 2:39 PM, Abcyclehank > wrote:


David your frequent messages about the Redwood has been one of my
main inspirations.  Glad I stopped bidding against you for it, I
benefitted from losing.

Miss Ryan, I agree that tragic is much better than fatal when
discussing accidents of any kind: whether people, bike or cars are
involved.  Steel bikes  usually repairable, people rehabilitated,
newer cars written off by insurance companies.

Are 47cm chain stays longer than normal.  I have Clem like spacing
between wheel and seat tube?

Ryan Hankinson
Muskegon Michigan



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Re: [RBW] XL frames and 650b experiences

[Toshi Takeuchi]

I don't usually fret about BB height on my 650b conversions, but use 170 mm
cranks.  However, adding 1-3 cm of crank length would have me concerned
enough to not recommend it.  I've scraped road twice in thousands of miles
with SPD pedals (sorta bounced the pedal off the road--not any danger of
crashing).  Most of my miles have been with a 650b Ram.

Besides, the benefit for 650b conversions (for me) is to gain in max tire
width, which is beneficial for the plush ride and safer in terms of
handling cracks and potholes in the road.  I can't tell if you are thinking
about converting your Hunq or Atlantis, but it doesn't seem to be of
benefit in terms of tire width, because those bikes can handle wide tires
already?

Toshi


On Mon, Nov 7, 2016 at 2:39 PM, Abcyclehank  wrote:

> David your frequent messages about the Redwood has been one of my main
> inspirations.  Glad I stopped bidding against you for it, I benefitted from
> losing.
>
> Miss Ryan, I agree that tragic is much better than fatal when discussing
> accidents of any kind: whether people, bike or cars are involved.  Steel
> bikes  usually repairable, people rehabilitated, newer cars written off by
> insurance companies.
>
> Are 47cm chain stays longer than normal.  I have Clem like spacing between
> wheel and seat tube?
>
> Ryan Hankinson
> Muskegon Michigan
>
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Re: [RBW] XL frames and 650b experiences

[Abcyclehank]

David your frequent messages about the Redwood has been one of my main 
inspirations.  Glad I stopped bidding against you for it, I benefitted from 
losing.

Miss Ryan, I agree that tragic is much better than fatal when discussing 
accidents of any kind: whether people, bike or cars are involved.  Steel bikes  
usually repairable, people rehabilitated, newer cars written off by insurance 
companies.

Are 47cm chain stays longer than normal.  I have Clem like spacing between 
wheel and seat tube?

Ryan Hankinson
Muskegon Michigan

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Re: [RBW] XL frames and 650b experiences

[Ryan Fleming]

Well...I sincerely  hope that you, at least,  are OK, but that is too bad 
about your bike. I hope it is tragic accident  and not  a fatal one for 
your bike

Ryan  in Winnipeg who now knows  she has  compression fracture of a lower 
vertebra and with  our lovely November is making do with walking and not 
riding yet. But the X0-1 appears to be fine

On Sunday, November 6, 2016 at 5:47:36 PM UTC-6, Andrew Patteson wrote:
>
>
>
> 
>
> Here's my 1983 Trek 600.  It had a tragic encounter with a curb a few 
> weeks after this was taken :(
>
> Go for it!  Most issues can be worked out or around but really long cranks 
> might be a problem.
>
> Andrew in SLC
>
> On Sunday, November 6, 2016 at 1:19:50 PM UTC-7, Abcyclehank wrote:
>>
>> Eric 
>> Both of these examples are beautiful.  Provided a ton of potential 
>> answers.  Areas of concern currently are brake issues but I have a set of 
>> Silvers, and am willing to modify if necessary (although looks fine during 
>> mock up).  Bottom bracket drop also is a potential concern asI generally 
>> run 180mm-200mm cranks.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Ryan Hankinson
>>
>> Follow up thought... Is it possible to convert a bike with 
>> canti-brakes?
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] XL frames and 650b experiences

[Andrew Patteson]

Here's my 1983 Trek 600.  It had a tragic encounter with a curb a few weeks 
after this was taken :(

Go for it!  Most issues can be worked out or around but really long cranks 
might be a problem.

Andrew in SLC

On Sunday, November 6, 2016 at 1:19:50 PM UTC-7, Abcyclehank wrote:
>
> Eric 
> Both of these examples are beautiful.  Provided a ton of potential 
> answers.  Areas of concern currently are brake issues but I have a set of 
> Silvers, and am willing to modify if necessary (although looks fine during 
> mock up).  Bottom bracket drop also is a potential concern asI generally 
> run 180mm-200mm cranks.
>
> Thanks,
> Ryan Hankinson
>
> Follow up thought... Is it possible to convert a bike with 
> canti-brakes?
>
>

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Re: [RBW] XL frames and 650b experiences

[Abcyclehank]

Eric 
Both of these examples are beautiful.  Provided a ton of potential answers.  
Areas of concern currently are brake issues but I have a set of Silvers, and am 
willing to modify if necessary (although looks fine during mock up).  Bottom 
bracket drop also is a potential concern asI generally run 180mm-200mm cranks.

Thanks,
Ryan Hankinson

Follow up thought... Is it possible to convert a bike with canti-brakes?

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Re: [RBW] XL frames and 650b experiences

[Eric Daume]

Here are some pictures of my 25" Raleigh Technium 650B conversion;

https://bikingtoplay.blogspot.com/2016/09/raleigh-technium-650b-conversion.html

After riding it for a bit, I like the wheels and tires, like the tires,
hate the brakes, and am ambivalent about the handling.

The frame is nice and flexy and fun, the wheels are tough, and the tires
are supple. The Odyssey brakes are junk--no feel, and I can't even skid the
rear tire, they're so weak. In fact, when I tried to skid the rear tire,
the brake just flexed up to where I could hear it hit the tire. I like the
handling in general, but this morning's trip to the library with a few
small hardbacks in my handlebar bag wasn't a model of delightful handling:
I could definitely feel some wind up and delay as I initiated turns. Maybe
I'm just trying to justify a Soma Grand Randonneur.

Here are some pictures of my first conversion, a Trek 620:

https://bikingtoplay.blogspot.com/2014/12/trek-620-650b-conversion.html

This one worked out well overall, but awful Pacenti rims killed it. I could
not reliably get a tire to set without pinching the tube on those.

Eric


On Sun, Nov 6, 2016 at 9:39 AM, Abcyclehank  wrote:

> Just completed my fleet by purchasing a Joe/Joe 68cm Riv Custom frameset.
> Considering a 650b build possibly due to severe overlap of ride options.
> Plan to reconfigure the 68cm Atlantis and 64cm Bombadil also. Will
> constitute my winter projects here during an uncertain Michigan winter.
> Currently 60 degrees on Nov. 6th, loving the extended fall riding season.
> Not even thinking about hanging up the classics and dragging out the XXL
> Moonlander yet.
>
> What specific experiences have fellow listers had with conversions?
>
> Ryan Hankinson
> West Michigan
>
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