Re: [RDA-L] Collective cities
On 17/12/2013 20.33, J. McRee Elrod wrote: I think we need to keep clear the distinction among: 1) A collective title on the manifestation transcribed in 245. 2) A collective title supplied by the cataloguer in 245 when the collection lacks such a title, as opposed to transcribing part titles. and 3) A collective uniform title supplied in 240. I support the first two, and oppose the third, as a useless holdover from cards. It is true that the 240 collective uniform title *as it has been implemented in computer catalogs* certainly has not worked, I would hesitate to get rid of it without at least an attempt to make it functional in modern tools and without some research into what users would like. When they were easy to find, they were used. As a single example, I decided to try something with a tag cloud of Aristophanes uniform titles that I took from the LC catalog. I worked with it just a bit, put it into "tagxedo" and played with it. The final product is here: http://www.tagxedo.com/artful/9f0df681f3144437 I have made this interactive with Worldcat, so if you click on, e.g. "Plutus" you will search Aristophanes as author and "plutus" as title, and will get his "Wealth". "Selections" and "Works" are very clear to the searcher in this view and, at least in my opinion--very, very useful. Of course, once you are in Worldcat, you then have all of the facets at your disposal. Naturally, this is simply a quick-and-dirty prototype and there are lots of things wrong with it, but it demonstrates how some old tasks *can* be done in the new environment and done successfully. This is why I keep reiterating that it is necessary to reconceive, to reimagine, what we do and how we do it. These kinds of tools can display the information we have in new ways that are interesting and revealing to the searchers. And it doesn't require new rules that are too expensive or even new formats (although that would still be nice). Most (all?) of this technology is free. All it requires is a willingness to experiment to be wrong. And these are the sorts of projects that could attract funding. -- James Weinheimer weinheimer.ji...@gmail.com First Thus http://catalogingmatters.blogspot.com/ First Thus Facebook Page https://www.facebook.com/FirstThus Cooperative Cataloging Rules http://sites.google.com/site/opencatalogingrules/ Cataloging Matters Podcasts http://blog.jweinheimer.net/p/cataloging-matters-podcasts.html To unsubscribe from RDA-L send an e-mail to the following address from the address you are subscribed under to: lists...@listserv.lac-bac.gc.ca In the body of the message: SIGNOFF RDA-L
Re: [RDA-L] Collective cities
> -Original Message- > From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access > [mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of J. McRee Elrod > Sent: December-17-13 4:46 PM > To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA > Subject: Re: [RDA-L] Collective cities > > Heidrun quoted RDA: > > >It seems RDA calls this a "conventional collective title". The glossary > >gives as the definition: "A title used as the preferred title for a > >compilation containing two or more works by one person, family, or > >corporate body, or two or more parts of a work (e.g., Works, Poems, > >Selections)". > > Confusing. > > IMNSO "preferred title" should always be the title on the item in hand or on > screen, if there is one. It should be in 245. With the exception of a > collection > lacking a collective title, something created by the cataloguer is not a good > substitute. > > For a work with varying manifestation titles, of course one would use the > most used title of the work in 600$t and 700$t, e.g., "Hamlet" not "Tragedy of > Hamlet". > > If supplying a collective title for 245, it should be exact, e.g., "Two > Victorian > novels" not "Works. Novels."; 'Love poems" not "Works. > Poems.". > > Using "preferred title" to mean either transcribed title or supplied uniform > title is ambiguous. > "Preferred title for the work" is the full name of the element, and it refers only to the work. The preferred title often involves a choice among possible titles or a conventional collective title for the work. There is only one preferred title for the work, even though the manifestations embodying the work may be identified by different titles proper. The preferred title is what is found in authorized access points for the work. The "title proper" is the title found in 245$a. A "devised title" may be recorded here as the title proper, if there is no title on the manifestation. Whatever the case, the "title proper" refers only to the manifestation in hand, and it may not be the same in the end as the preferred title for the work. While there may be a challenge in choosing the appropriate titles for each category, the categories themselves aren't that complicated. Title elements for the manifestation (considering only identifiers for the physical resource in hand): Title proper (includes "devised title") Variant title (as transcribed from the cover, spine, etc.) Title elements for the work (considering the content and identifying it for all manifestations of the content): Preferred title for the work (includes "conventional collective title") Variant title for the work (as found in SEE references) Thomas Brenndorfer Guelph Public Library To unsubscribe from RDA-L send an e-mail to the following address from the address you are subscribed under to: lists...@listserv.lac-bac.gc.ca In the body of the message: SIGNOFF RDA-L
Re: [RDA-L] Collective cities
Heidrun quoted RDA:
>It seems RDA calls this a "conventional collective title". The glossary
>gives as the definition: "A title used as the preferred title for a
>compilation containing two or more works by one person, family, or
>corporate body, or two or more parts of a work (e.g., Works, Poems,
>Selections)".
Confusing.
IMNSO "preferred title" should always be the title on the item in hand
or on screen, if there is one. It should be in 245. With the
exception of a collection lacking a collective title, something
created by the cataloguer is not a good substitute.
For a work with varying manifestation titles, of course one would use
the most used title of the work in 600$t and 700$t, e.g., "Hamlet" not
"Tragedy of Hamlet".
If supplying a collective title for 245, it should be exact, e.g.,
"Two Victorian novels" not "Works. Novels."; 'Love poems" not "Works.
Poems.".
Using "preferred title" to mean either transcribed title or supplied
uniform title is ambiguous.
There is no reason to confuse patrons more than need be.
__ __ J. McRee (Mac) Elrod (m...@slc.bc.ca)
{__ | / Special Libraries Cataloguing HTTP://www.slc.bc.ca/
___} |__ \__
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Re: [RDA-L] Collective cities
Mac,
Yes, I was only talking about collective titles as a subtype of the
former uniform titles.
It seems RDA calls this a "conventional collective title". The glossary
gives as the definition: "A title used as the preferred title for a
compilation containing two or more works by one person, family, or
corporate body, or two or more parts of a work (e.g., Works, Poems,
Selections)".
Heidrun
Mac said:
Heidrun said:
With respect to collective titles ...
I think we need to keep clear the distinction among:
1) A collective title on the manifestation transcribed in 245.
2) A collective title supplied by the cataloguer in 245 when the
collection lacks such a title, as opposed to transcribing part titles.
and
3) A collective uniform title supplied in 240.
I support the first two, and oppose the third, as a useless holdover
from cards.
Heidrun, I assume from the context you are speaking of collective
"uniform" titles. RDA's abandoning traditional terminology adds to
the confusion.
__ __ J. McRee (Mac) Elrod (m...@slc.bc.ca)
{__ | / Special Libraries Cataloguing HTTP://www.slc.bc.ca/
___} |__ \__
--
-
Prof. Heidrun Wiesenmueller M.A.
Stuttgart Media University
Wolframstr. 32, 70191 Stuttgart, Germany
www.hdm-stuttgart.de/bi
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Re: [RDA-L] Collective cities
Heidrun said:
>With respect to collective titles ...
I think we need to keep clear the distinction among:
1) A collective title on the manifestation transcribed in 245.
2) A collective title supplied by the cataloguer in 245 when the
collection lacks such a title, as opposed to transcribing part titles.
and
3) A collective uniform title supplied in 240.
I support the first two, and oppose the third, as a useless holdover
from cards.
Heidrun, I assume from the context you are speaking of collective
"uniform" titles. RDA's abandoning traditional terminology adds to
the confusion.
__ __ J. McRee (Mac) Elrod (m...@slc.bc.ca)
{__ | / Special Libraries Cataloguing HTTP://www.slc.bc.ca/
___} |__ \__
To unsubscribe from RDA-L send an e-mail to the following address from the
address you are subscribed under to:
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In the body of the message:
SIGNOFF RDA-L
