Re: [RE-wrenches] Sanyo HIT module diode issues

[Taiyoko Sadewic]

Yes I did Brian, with and without the diode.  That's how I found what I
thought was a bad diode.

On Thu, Jul 6, 2017 at 4:21 PM, Brian Mehalic  wrote:

> Did you test the voltage of the individual cell banks in the module with
> the diodes out?
>
>
> Brian Mehalic
> NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installation Professional™ R031508-59
> 520.204.6639 <(520)%20204-6639>
>
> Solar Energy International
> http://www.solarenergy.org
>
> SEI Professional Services
> http://www.seisolarpros.com
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 6, 2017 at 6:18 PM, Taiyoko Sadewic <
> taiy...@positiveenergysolar.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Brian,
>> Thanks for the info. Yes I tested the diode properly.  I was concerned
>> that I needed to test the diode under a load to get a valid test.
>>
>> Taiyoko
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 6, 2017 at 4:14 PM, Brian Mehalic 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Did you use the Diode Test function on the meter?  If the diode is good
>>> you should see around 0.4-0.8 V in the forward bias, and OL in reverse.  If
>>> it is bad (open) you'll get OL in both directions, and if it is shorted
>>> closed you'll get the 0.4-0.8 V reading in both directions.
>>>
>>> Shorted closed would be the failure mode that would indicate an
>>> always-closed diode providing a permanent bypass path and thus a drop of
>>> 25% of voltage per bad diode (or set of paralleled diodes).  (These have 4
>>> diodes right?).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Brian Mehalic
>>> NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installation Professional™ R031508-59
>>> 520.204.6639 <(520)%20204-6639>
>>>
>>> Solar Energy International
>>> http://www.solarenergy.org
>>>
>>> SEI Professional Services
>>> http://www.seisolarpros.com
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jul 6, 2017 at 4:31 PM, Taiyoko Sadewic <
>>> taiy...@positiveenergysolar.com> wrote:
>>>
 Hi Wrenches,
 We were installing Sanyo HIT modules back in 2006-2007 and in 2014 we
 had a rash of bad Sanyo modules. The modules had distinct voltages below
 the good modules ie 50% or 75%.  Sanyo at the time (now Panasonic)
 indicated that it was a bad diodes from a lightning strike not covered by
 warranty.

 I finally got around to checking that out. I identified the purportedly
 bad diode in one module (four per module) that was performing at 75% and
 removed it. The diode appears to be fine using an ohm meter.  Is that a
 valid test?

 Anyone else have similar findings or experiences with this?  Could
 lightning blow apart the tab ribbons inside of the module?

 Thanks

 --
 
 Taiyoko Sadewic
 Employee-Owner
 NABCEP™PV Installation Professional
 NABCEP™Technical Sales
 3209 Richards Lane  |  Santa Fe, NM 87507
 cell  505.570.0137 <505.699.9032>
 taiy...@positiveenergysolar.com  
 www.PositiveEnergySolar.com
 
   
 
 
 
 
   
 

 

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>>
>> --
>> 
>> Taiyoko Sadewic
>> Chief Financial Officer | Employee-Owner
>> NABCEP™PV Installation Professional
>> NABCEP™Technical Sales
>> 3209 Richards Lane  |  Santa Fe, NM 87507
>> cell  505.570.0137 <505.699.9032>
>> taiy...@positiveenergysolar.com  
>> www.PositiveEnergySolar.com
>> 
>>   
>> 
>> 
>> 

Re: [RE-wrenches] Sanyo HIT module diode issues

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar]

The diode check on a dvm is useful but may not show a diode breaking down
at higher voltage. Yes lightning can open up the tabs or connecting foil
inside a solar panel. It can do alot more than that! One of the best
reasons for using an SPD at the array is also preventing the latent damage
that can show up later. A really close strike and prayer may help but I
doubt it :)

Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060


> Did you use the Diode Test function on the meter?  If the diode is good
> you
> should see around 0.4-0.8 V in the forward bias, and OL in reverse.  If it
> is bad (open) you'll get OL in both directions, and if it is shorted
> closed
> you'll get the 0.4-0.8 V reading in both directions.
>
> Shorted closed would be the failure mode that would indicate an
> always-closed diode providing a permanent bypass path and thus a drop of
> 25% of voltage per bad diode (or set of paralleled diodes).  (These have 4
> diodes right?).
>
>
>
>
> Brian Mehalic
> NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installation Professional™ R031508-59
> 520.204.6639
>
> Solar Energy International
> http://www.solarenergy.org
>
> SEI Professional Services
> http://www.seisolarpros.com
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 6, 2017 at 4:31 PM, Taiyoko Sadewic <
> taiy...@positiveenergysolar.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Wrenches,
>> We were installing Sanyo HIT modules back in 2006-2007 and in 2014 we
>> had
>> a rash of bad Sanyo modules. The modules had distinct voltages below the
>> good modules ie 50% or 75%.  Sanyo at the time (now Panasonic) indicated
>> that it was a bad diodes from a lightning strike not covered by
>> warranty.
>>
>> I finally got around to checking that out. I identified the purportedly
>> bad diode in one module (four per module) that was performing at 75% and
>> removed it. The diode appears to be fine using an ohm meter.  Is that a
>> valid test?
>>
>> Anyone else have similar findings or experiences with this?  Could
>> lightning blow apart the tab ribbons inside of the module?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> --
>> 
>> Taiyoko Sadewic
>> Employee-Owner
>> NABCEP™PV Installation Professional
>> NABCEP™Technical Sales
>> 3209 Richards Lane  |  Santa Fe, NM 87507
>> cell  505.570.0137 <505.699.9032>
>> taiy...@positiveenergysolar.com  
>> www.PositiveEnergySolar.com
>> 
>>   
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>   
>> 
>> 
>>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Sanyo HIT module diode issues

[Brian Mehalic]

Did you test the voltage of the individual cell banks in the module with
the diodes out?


Brian Mehalic
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installation Professional™ R031508-59
520.204.6639

Solar Energy International
http://www.solarenergy.org

SEI Professional Services
http://www.seisolarpros.com


On Thu, Jul 6, 2017 at 6:18 PM, Taiyoko Sadewic <
taiy...@positiveenergysolar.com> wrote:

> Hi Brian,
> Thanks for the info. Yes I tested the diode properly.  I was concerned
> that I needed to test the diode under a load to get a valid test.
>
> Taiyoko
>
> On Thu, Jul 6, 2017 at 4:14 PM, Brian Mehalic 
> wrote:
>
>> Did you use the Diode Test function on the meter?  If the diode is good
>> you should see around 0.4-0.8 V in the forward bias, and OL in reverse.  If
>> it is bad (open) you'll get OL in both directions, and if it is shorted
>> closed you'll get the 0.4-0.8 V reading in both directions.
>>
>> Shorted closed would be the failure mode that would indicate an
>> always-closed diode providing a permanent bypass path and thus a drop of
>> 25% of voltage per bad diode (or set of paralleled diodes).  (These have 4
>> diodes right?).
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Brian Mehalic
>> NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installation Professional™ R031508-59
>> 520.204.6639 <(520)%20204-6639>
>>
>> Solar Energy International
>> http://www.solarenergy.org
>>
>> SEI Professional Services
>> http://www.seisolarpros.com
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 6, 2017 at 4:31 PM, Taiyoko Sadewic <
>> taiy...@positiveenergysolar.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Wrenches,
>>> We were installing Sanyo HIT modules back in 2006-2007 and in 2014 we
>>> had a rash of bad Sanyo modules. The modules had distinct voltages below
>>> the good modules ie 50% or 75%.  Sanyo at the time (now Panasonic)
>>> indicated that it was a bad diodes from a lightning strike not covered by
>>> warranty.
>>>
>>> I finally got around to checking that out. I identified the purportedly
>>> bad diode in one module (four per module) that was performing at 75% and
>>> removed it. The diode appears to be fine using an ohm meter.  Is that a
>>> valid test?
>>>
>>> Anyone else have similar findings or experiences with this?  Could
>>> lightning blow apart the tab ribbons inside of the module?
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> --
>>> 
>>> Taiyoko Sadewic
>>> Employee-Owner
>>> NABCEP™PV Installation Professional
>>> NABCEP™Technical Sales
>>> 3209 Richards Lane  |  Santa Fe, NM 87507
>>> cell  505.570.0137 <505.699.9032>
>>> taiy...@positiveenergysolar.com  
>>> www.PositiveEnergySolar.com
>>> 
>>>   
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>   
>>> 
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> ___
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>
>
> --
> 
> Taiyoko Sadewic
> Chief Financial Officer | Employee-Owner
> NABCEP™PV Installation Professional
> NABCEP™Technical Sales
> 3209 Richards Lane  |  Santa Fe, NM 87507
> cell  505.570.0137 <505.699.9032>
> taiy...@positiveenergysolar.com  
> www.PositiveEnergySolar.com
> 
>   
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   
> 
> 
>
> ___
> L

Re: [RE-wrenches] Sanyo HIT module diode issues

[Taiyoko Sadewic]

Hi Brian,
Thanks for the info. Yes I tested the diode properly.  I was concerned that
I needed to test the diode under a load to get a valid test.

Taiyoko

On Thu, Jul 6, 2017 at 4:14 PM, Brian Mehalic  wrote:

> Did you use the Diode Test function on the meter?  If the diode is good
> you should see around 0.4-0.8 V in the forward bias, and OL in reverse.  If
> it is bad (open) you'll get OL in both directions, and if it is shorted
> closed you'll get the 0.4-0.8 V reading in both directions.
>
> Shorted closed would be the failure mode that would indicate an
> always-closed diode providing a permanent bypass path and thus a drop of
> 25% of voltage per bad diode (or set of paralleled diodes).  (These have 4
> diodes right?).
>
>
>
>
> Brian Mehalic
> NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installation Professional™ R031508-59
> 520.204.6639 <(520)%20204-6639>
>
> Solar Energy International
> http://www.solarenergy.org
>
> SEI Professional Services
> http://www.seisolarpros.com
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 6, 2017 at 4:31 PM, Taiyoko Sadewic <
> taiy...@positiveenergysolar.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Wrenches,
>> We were installing Sanyo HIT modules back in 2006-2007 and in 2014 we had
>> a rash of bad Sanyo modules. The modules had distinct voltages below the
>> good modules ie 50% or 75%.  Sanyo at the time (now Panasonic) indicated
>> that it was a bad diodes from a lightning strike not covered by warranty.
>>
>> I finally got around to checking that out. I identified the purportedly
>> bad diode in one module (four per module) that was performing at 75% and
>> removed it. The diode appears to be fine using an ohm meter.  Is that a
>> valid test?
>>
>> Anyone else have similar findings or experiences with this?  Could
>> lightning blow apart the tab ribbons inside of the module?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> --
>> 
>> Taiyoko Sadewic
>> Employee-Owner
>> NABCEP™PV Installation Professional
>> NABCEP™Technical Sales
>> 3209 Richards Lane  |  Santa Fe, NM 87507
>> cell  505.570.0137 <505.699.9032>
>> taiy...@positiveenergysolar.com  
>> www.PositiveEnergySolar.com
>> 
>>   
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>   
>> 
>> 
>>
>> ___
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>
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-- 

Taiyoko Sadewic
Chief Financial Officer | Employee-Owner
NABCEP™PV Installation Professional
NABCEP™Technical Sales
3209 Richards Lane  |  Santa Fe, NM 87507
cell  505.570.0137 <505.699.9032>
taiy...@positiveenergysolar.com  
www.PositiveEnergySolar.com

  




  


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Sanyo HIT module diode issues

[Brian Mehalic]

Did you use the Diode Test function on the meter?  If the diode is good you
should see around 0.4-0.8 V in the forward bias, and OL in reverse.  If it
is bad (open) you'll get OL in both directions, and if it is shorted closed
you'll get the 0.4-0.8 V reading in both directions.

Shorted closed would be the failure mode that would indicate an
always-closed diode providing a permanent bypass path and thus a drop of
25% of voltage per bad diode (or set of paralleled diodes).  (These have 4
diodes right?).




Brian Mehalic
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installation Professional™ R031508-59
520.204.6639

Solar Energy International
http://www.solarenergy.org

SEI Professional Services
http://www.seisolarpros.com


On Thu, Jul 6, 2017 at 4:31 PM, Taiyoko Sadewic <
taiy...@positiveenergysolar.com> wrote:

> Hi Wrenches,
> We were installing Sanyo HIT modules back in 2006-2007 and in 2014 we had
> a rash of bad Sanyo modules. The modules had distinct voltages below the
> good modules ie 50% or 75%.  Sanyo at the time (now Panasonic) indicated
> that it was a bad diodes from a lightning strike not covered by warranty.
>
> I finally got around to checking that out. I identified the purportedly
> bad diode in one module (four per module) that was performing at 75% and
> removed it. The diode appears to be fine using an ohm meter.  Is that a
> valid test?
>
> Anyone else have similar findings or experiences with this?  Could
> lightning blow apart the tab ribbons inside of the module?
>
> Thanks
>
> --
> 
> Taiyoko Sadewic
> Employee-Owner
> NABCEP™PV Installation Professional
> NABCEP™Technical Sales
> 3209 Richards Lane  |  Santa Fe, NM 87507
> cell  505.570.0137 <505.699.9032>
> taiy...@positiveenergysolar.com  
> www.PositiveEnergySolar.com
> 
>   
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   
> 
> 
>
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[RE-wrenches] Sanyo HIT module diode issues

[Taiyoko Sadewic]

Hi Wrenches,
We were installing Sanyo HIT modules back in 2006-2007 and in 2014 we had a
rash of bad Sanyo modules. The modules had distinct voltages below the good
modules ie 50% or 75%.  Sanyo at the time (now Panasonic) indicated that it
was a bad diodes from a lightning strike not covered by warranty.

I finally got around to checking that out. I identified the purportedly bad
diode in one module (four per module) that was performing at 75% and
removed it. The diode appears to be fine using an ohm meter.  Is that a
valid test?

Anyone else have similar findings or experiences with this?  Could
lightning blow apart the tab ribbons inside of the module?

Thanks

-- 

Taiyoko Sadewic
Employee-Owner
NABCEP™PV Installation Professional
NABCEP™Technical Sales
3209 Richards Lane  |  Santa Fe, NM 87507
cell  505.570.0137 <505.699.9032>
taiy...@positiveenergysolar.com  
www.PositiveEnergySolar.com

  




  


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase installer compensation M-190's discontinued

[Chris Schaefer]

I dumped Enphase this season for APS. Simply put, half the equipment with
almost half the time to install. and a much lower cost point. If anyone is
at InterSolar I suggest lighting up the Enphase reps about the M190 issue.
Make some noise. Then step over to the APS booth.

Christopher

Chris Schaefer’s


*Tel/Fax 585-229-2083 or Cell 585-748-1870 *
*5115 South Hill Road ~ Canandaigua New York 14424**www.solarandwindfx.com
 ~ E-mail: ch...@solarandwindfx.com
*


Thomas Jefferson, the author of our great Constitution, once said,
"democracy" will cease to exist when you take away from those who are
willing to work and give to those who would not."

On Thu, Jul 6, 2017 at 3:21 PM, Jason Szumlanski <
ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote:

> Correction - I think it started at 15 years with labor included. I don't
> see how they can renege on that now. In fact, they had a power guarantee,
> too. They would reimburse people for lost energy as a result of warranty
> issues.
>
> Jason
>
> On Thu, Jul 6, 2017 at 3:02 PM, Jason Szumlanski  floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote:
>
>> This seems odd. I thought they had a 25 year warranty originally with
>> labor compensation, then went to 15 year at some point with no labor
>> compensation. We have lots of M190s out there that were sold with labor
>> coverage, so this would be important to know for certain.
>>
>>
>> Jason
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 6, 2017 at 2:52 PM,  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>For those who have installed M-190's, Enphase has now discontinued as
>>> of June 1st any installer compensation for replacing failed
>>> microinverters with that designation. We have a system we installed in
>>> 2011 that I found out today, after replacing the three failed M-190's,
>>> that I was on my own.fyi
>>>
>>> Daryl
>>> Penobscot Solar Design
>>>
>>>
>
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Chris Schaefer’s


*Tel/Fax 585-229-2083 or Cell 585-748-1870 *
*5115 South Hill Road ~ Canandaigua New York 14424**www.solarandwindfx.com
 ~ E-mail: ch...@solarandwindfx.com
*


Thomas Jefferson, the author of our great Constitution, once said,
"democracy" will cease to exist when you take away from those who are
willing to work and give to those who would not."
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase installer compensation M-190's discontinued

[Jason Szumlanski]

Correction - I think it started at 15 years with labor included. I don't
see how they can renege on that now. In fact, they had a power guarantee,
too. They would reimburse people for lost energy as a result of warranty
issues.

Jason

On Thu, Jul 6, 2017 at 3:02 PM, Jason Szumlanski <
ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote:

> This seems odd. I thought they had a 25 year warranty originally with
> labor compensation, then went to 15 year at some point with no labor
> compensation. We have lots of M190s out there that were sold with labor
> coverage, so this would be important to know for certain.
>
>
> Jason
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 6, 2017 at 2:52 PM,  wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>For those who have installed M-190's, Enphase has now discontinued as
>> of June 1st any installer compensation for replacing failed
>> microinverters with that designation. We have a system we installed in
>> 2011 that I found out today, after replacing the three failed M-190's,
>> that I was on my own.fyi
>>
>> Daryl
>> Penobscot Solar Design
>>
>>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase installer compensation M-190's discontinued

[penobscotsolar]

I believe that I found out for certain. I spoke to two different people at
Enphase and was "assured" that I would not be compensated as of June 1,
2017 for any M-190 replacements. I told them I would be purchasing
SolarEdge, not Enphase, from now on until they felt that, as I do, they
were breaking their part of the bargain.

Daryl


> This seems odd. I thought they had a 25 year warranty originally with
> labor
> compensation, then went to 15 year at some point with no labor
> compensation. We have lots of M190s out there that were sold with labor
> coverage, so this would be important to know for certain.
>
>
> Jason
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 6, 2017 at 2:52 PM,  wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>For those who have installed M-190's, Enphase has now discontinued as
>> of June 1st any installer compensation for replacing failed
>> microinverters with that designation. We have a system we installed in
>> 2011 that I found out today, after replacing the three failed M-190's,
>> that I was on my own.fyi
>>
>> Daryl
>> Penobscot Solar Design
>>
>>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase installer compensation M-190's discontinued

[Jason Szumlanski]

This seems odd. I thought they had a 25 year warranty originally with labor
compensation, then went to 15 year at some point with no labor
compensation. We have lots of M190s out there that were sold with labor
coverage, so this would be important to know for certain.


Jason



On Thu, Jul 6, 2017 at 2:52 PM,  wrote:

> Hi all,
>For those who have installed M-190's, Enphase has now discontinued as
> of June 1st any installer compensation for replacing failed
> microinverters with that designation. We have a system we installed in
> 2011 that I found out today, after replacing the three failed M-190's,
> that I was on my own.fyi
>
> Daryl
> Penobscot Solar Design
>
>
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[RE-wrenches] Enphase installer compensation M-190's discontinued

[penobscotsolar]

Hi all,
   For those who have installed M-190's, Enphase has now discontinued as
of June 1st any installer compensation for replacing failed
microinverters with that designation. We have a system we installed in
2011 that I found out today, after replacing the three failed M-190's,
that I was on my own.fyi

Daryl
Penobscot Solar Design



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Re: [RE-wrenches] 4 Wire Delta

[Drake]

Hello Wrenches,

I'm picking this thread back up now that more
information has become available.

What I learned from talking with an AEP engineer
is that the issues with the delta configuration
on local AEP systems is that the transformers are
wye-delta. The AEP system is wye on the utility
side and delta on the load side. Originally it
appeared that the issue was that the customer had
requested 120/240 V loads, so they center tapped
one phase of the 240 V delta 3 phase and grounded
it to create a neutral. Apparently, if they
ground the delta, they won't ground the wye.

According to the engineer I spoke with, the wye
windings, with no ground reference, could be kept
energized indefinitely from inverter backfeed
into the delta side in the event that the utility
lost one phase. I would think the voltage would
go high on the open line and any connected
inverters would shut down from high voltage. This
may not be quick enough to meet UL 1741 requirements.

He said that "all sorts of weird problems" can
occur if both sets of windings are grounded. He
didn't go in to what the problems would be.Does anyone know?

AEP also said that having an ungrounded delta
system, and creating 120 V power through a
transformer would not be acceptable. At that
point, I was told that the utility will not
supply an ungrounded delta system. Problems I can
see with an ungrounded delta include the issue
that a ground fault on one leg would not activate
overcurrent protection. (Maybe they could have a
ground fault alarm system). Another problem is
that a neutral could not be run to the service,
as required by the NEC, since there would be no neutral.

Has anyone backfed a wye-delta transformer? Does
any utility supply an ungrounded delta? What are
the problems with grounding the center point of
the wye and grounding the delta?

Thanks,

Drake

At 11:50 AM 6/5/2017, you wrote:

We have done many high-leg delta installations
with both single phase and three phase inverters here in the Bay Area.
Â
Besides the normal stinger-leg type issues of
trying to install a single phase 120 volt load
across the high leg, I’m not aware of any
particular problems. Certainly we see many
existing old services where the high leg spots
are left blank and only two of the three phases
are used for branch circuits. It seems like
perhaps this would cause load balancing type
issue with the utility. I’m by no means
familiar with the ins and outs of what causes transformer problems, however.
Â
August
Luminalt
Â
From: RE-wrenches
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Clearwater
Sent: Monday, June 05, 2017 8:19 AM
To: RE-wrenches
<re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] 4 Wire Delta
Â
Hi Drake,

Souther Cal Edison allowed us to do a High-Leg
Delta - sharing this in the chance like William
that at least you can say others have - can't imagine what their issue is.

Best,

Jeff

Drake wrote:

Hello Wrenches,

I've recently learned that AEP, our utility
company, believes it is unsafe to backfeed a 4
wire delta transformer. Does anyone know what the issues are?

Thanks,

Drake

Drake Chamberlin
Athens Electric LLC
OH License 44810
CO License 3773
NABCEP Certified Solar PV
740-448-7328
http://athens-electric.com/
Â

Image removed by sender.

Virus-free.
www.avast.com


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Renewable Energy Design & Installation
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Licensed Solar Contractor in CA - C-46
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