Re: [RE-wrenches] AC Coupled Enphase

[b...@midnitesolar.com]

On 8/30/2017 5:54 AM, Drake wrote:

Hi boB,

Would there be any issues with delayed control of the microinverters? 
We do  plan to  use disconnects for maintenance.


Thanks,

Drake




I highly doubt there would be enough delay to worry about anything 
regarding battery damage


Even with Rule 21 or its cousins in a normal home installation.

boB







At 06:27 PM 8/29/2017, you wrote:

Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
 boundary="155C815B9802686293824DDD"
Content-Language: en-US


SSRs, especially AC SSRs made from thyrisotrs (scrs and/or triacs)Â 
are "leaky" in general


so when turned OFF, can cause a shock  Maybe not enough to kill 
you but maybe enough


to make you fall off the roof !

I'm not sure why the disconnects aren't good enough which should 
already be in place ?


boB

On 8/29/2017 4:53 AM, Jason Szumlanski wrote:
My vote would still be to use two single pole relays as suggested 
previously to kill each leg. That way you build in redundancy and 
dropping either leg will do the trick. In fact, it sounds like this 
would be even better than a two pole relay for the redundancy reason.


The other factor is whether you are using NO or NC relays. My 
engineer requires NO relays in these cases so they would fail in the 
open position only. I'm not sure how this would work, or if it would 
work with solid state relays. I have never dug into this. My 
understanding is that solid state relays fail in the closed 
condition (shorted). This would preclude their use in a situation 
where opening the circuit is the preferred failure mode. Maybe 
someone with some more knowledge in this area can chime in on 
whether SSRs are a good idea in this scenario.


Jason Szumlanski


On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 10:19 PM, Nick Soleil 
> wrote:


The one-pole relay will work for de-energizing any of the
Enphase microinverters.

Nick Soleil
Field Application Engineer
Enphase Energy
Cell: 707-321-2937 

On Aug 28, 2017, at 6:03 PM, Drake
> wrote:


Hi Nick,

I should mention that the inverters being AC coupled are
M-250s, not the new IQ series. Would that make any difference?

Thanks,


Drake


At 03:12 PM 8/28/2017, Drake wrote:

Hi Nick,


At 11:20 AM 8/28/2017, you wrote:

Content-Language: en-US
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
       Â

boundary="_000_56449940CA694DDAABB811FCC45A2070enphaseenergycom_"

You can use a one-pole relay.  We show one-pole
switching in our zero-export, self-consumption
doc for PEL applications.

Nick Soleil
Field Application Engineer
Enphase Energy
Cell: 707-321-2937 

On Aug 28, 2017, at 6:44 AM, Drake
> wrote:


Hello Wrenches,

I am going to AC couple some Enphase
inverters and found some really nice solid
state, single pole relays to control them
with. Enphase says I must use 2 pole relays
for the control current even though the
disconnects will turn off all power for
maintenance.

Enphase claims that the inverters will not
shut down reliably with only one line
opened. This does not make sense to me in
view of UL 1741. Is Enphase correct in their
claim, or are there other reasons that both
poles need to be opened

I want to use the solid state relays because
the coil voltage is between 3 and 32 volts.
This would avoid the need to add voltage
dropping series resistors to protect the
coil for higher battery voltages.

Alternatively, does anyone know of
reasonably priced, 2 pole solid state relays?

Thanks,

Drake

Â
Drake Chamberlin
Athens Electric LLC
OH License 44810
CO License 3773
NABCEP Certified Solar PV
740-448-7328 

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Re: [RE-wrenches] anything like Generac Smart Management Module for a solar critical backup panel 10H

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar]

Howard,

If you see this before the call, please ask them if Energy Sentry could
also be controlled based on DC voltage set-points. I have a clunky way I
do this now to control a mini-split heat pump over wi-fi based on an AUX
of an Inverter/charger. This is mainly for clouds and an offgrid
applications. Would like an easier way to implement.

Thx! Dave Angelini / Offgrid Solar



Dave Howard AreyDave
> Excellent – I had seen Energy Sentry yesterday and just spoke to that
> team. Will have a more detailed call with them this afternoon.
>
>
>
> Will follow back with this group.
>
>
>
> Thank you.
>
>
>
> From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On
> Behalf Of Mick Abraham
> Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2017 8:51 AM
> To: RE-wrenches 
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] anything like Generac Smart Management Module
> for a solar critical backup panel 10H
>
>
>
> Hi, Mechanix~ Here are two possible solutions to Scot Arey's quest:
>
>
>
> http://sequentpower.com/
>
>
>
> http://energysentry.com/PP-residential-controllers.php
>
>
>
> I do not have hands on experience with either of these items, Scot, so be
> sure to report back if you try one of these. A google for "load sequencer"
> may turn up additional possibilities.
>
>
>
> I hope this will be helpful. The Wrench List is the bomb!
>
>
>
>
> Mick Abraham, Proprietor
> www.abrahamsolar.com 
>
> Landline: 970-731-4675
>
> Cell phone or for text messaging: 970-946-6584
>
>   
> 
> ᐧ
>
> ___
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Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

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Re: [RE-wrenches] anything like Generac Smart Management Module for a solar critical backup panel 10H

[Howard Arey]

Excellent – I had seen Energy Sentry yesterday and just spoke to that team. 
Will have a more detailed call with them this afternoon.

 

Will follow back with this group.

 

Thank you.

 

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Mick Abraham
Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2017 8:51 AM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] anything like Generac Smart Management Module for a 
solar critical backup panel 10H

 

Hi, Mechanix~ Here are two possible solutions to Scot Arey's quest:

 

http://sequentpower.com/

 

http://energysentry.com/PP-residential-controllers.php

 

I do not have hands on experience with either of these items, Scot, so be sure 
to report back if you try one of these. A google for "load sequencer" may turn 
up additional possibilities. 

 

I hope this will be helpful. The Wrench List is the bomb!




Mick Abraham, Proprietor
www.abrahamsolar.com  

Landline: 970-731-4675

Cell phone or for text messaging: 970-946-6584

  

 ᐧ

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Re: [RE-wrenches] anything like Generac Smart Management Module for a solar critical backup panel 10H

[Mick Abraham]

Hi, Mechanix~ Here are two possible solutions to Scot Arey's quest:

http://sequentpower.com/

http://energysentry.com/PP-residential-controllers.php

I do not have hands on experience with either of these items, Scot, so be
sure to report back if you try one of these. A google for "load sequencer"
may turn up additional possibilities.

I hope this will be helpful. The Wrench List is the bomb!

Mick Abraham, Proprietor
www.abrahamsolar.com

Landline: 970-731-4675
Cell phone or for text messaging: 970-946-6584
ᐧ
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Re: [RE-wrenches] AC Coupled Enphase

[Drake]

Hi boB,

Would there be any issues with delayed control of 
the microinverters? We do  plan to  use disconnects for maintenance.


Thanks,

Drake

At 06:27 PM 8/29/2017, you wrote:

Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
 boundary="155C815B9802686293824DDD"
Content-Language: en-US


SSRs, especially AC SSRs made from thyrisotrs 
(scrs and/or triacs)Â  are "leaky" in general


so when turned OFF, can cause a 
shock  Maybe not enough to kill you but maybe enough


to make you fall off the roof !

I'm not sure why the disconnects aren't good 
enough which should already be in place ?


boB

On 8/29/2017 4:53 AM, Jason Szumlanski wrote:
My vote would still be to use two single pole 
relays as suggested previously to kill each 
leg. That way you build in redundancy and 
dropping either leg will do the trick. In fact, 
it sounds like this would be even better than a 
two pole relay for the redundancy reason.


The other factor is whether you are using NO or 
NC relays. My engineer requires NO relays in 
these cases so they would fail in the open 
position only. I'm not sure how this would 
work, or if it would work with solid state 
relays. I have never dug into this. My 
understanding is that solid state relays fail 
in the closed condition (shorted). This would 
preclude their use in a situation where opening 
the circuit is the preferred failure mode. 
Maybe someone with some more knowledge in this 
area can chime in on whether SSRs are a good idea in this scenario.


Jason Szumlanski


On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 10:19 PM, Nick Soleil 
<nsol...@enphaseenergy.com> wrote:
The one-pole relay will work for de-energizing 
any of the Enphase microinverters.


Nick Soleil
Field Application Engineer
Enphase Energy
Cell: 707-321-2937

On Aug 28, 2017, at 6:03 PM, Drake 
<drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org> 
wrote:



Hi Nick,

I should mention that the inverters being AC 
coupled are M-250s, not the new IQ series. Would that make any difference?


Thanks,


Drake


At 03:12 PM 8/28/2017, Drake wrote:

Hi Nick,


At 11:20 AM 8/28/2017, you wrote:

Content-Language: en-US
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
       
  boundary="_000_56449940CA694DDAABB811FCC45A2070enphaseenergycom_"


You can use a one-pole relay.  We show 
one-pole switching in our zero-export, 
self-consumption doc for PEL applications.


Nick Soleil
Field Application Engineer
Enphase Energy
Cell: 707-321-2937

On Aug 28, 2017, at 6:44 AM, Drake 
< drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org> wrote:



Hello Wrenches,

I am going to AC couple some Enphase 
inverters and found some really nice solid 
state, single pole relays to control them 
with. Enphase says I must use 2 pole relays 
for the control current even though the 
disconnects will turn off all power for maintenance.


Enphase claims that the inverters will not 
shut down reliably with only one line 
opened. This does not make sense to me in 
view of UL 1741. Is Enphase correct in 
their claim, or are there other reasons that both poles need to be opened


I want to use the solid state relays 
because the coil voltage is between 3 and 
32 volts. This would avoid the need to add 
voltage dropping series resistors to 
protect the coil for higher battery voltages.


Alternatively, does anyone know of 
reasonably priced, 2 pole solid state relays?


Thanks,

Drake

Â
Drake Chamberlin
Athens Electric LLC
OH License 44810
CO License 3773
NABCEP Certified Solar PV
740-448-7328

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Re: [RE-wrenches] anything like Generac Smart Management Module for a solar critical backup panel

[Chris Mason]

Can you read the load from the inverter? On the Outback systems you can
read the API from the MATE3 via ethernet/JSON string.

On Tue, Aug 29, 2017 at 5:37 PM, Howard Arey 
wrote:

> Not SOC issue but rather a peak inverter output issue: 5,000 watts con and
> 6,600 surge for 10 seconds (I believe the latter is right number). That is
> the constraint I’m trying to live under.
>
>
>
> *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On
> Behalf Of *Chris Mason
> *Sent:* Tuesday, August 29, 2017 4:34 PM
> *To:* RE-wrenches 
> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] anything like Generac Smart Management
> Module for a solar critical backup panel
>
>
>
> If there is an API from which you can determine SOC, you how to do load
> management with a Raspberry Pi. I can help with that if you want.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 29, 2017 at 3:55 PM, Howard Arey 
> wrote:
>
> Hello again, wrenches.
>
>
>
> I know many of us have run into the quandary and that is  prioritizing
> loads in a critical load panel.
>
>
>
> About to put in some LG RESU units with the SE7600 StorEdge and the 21
> amps continuous is pretty tough.
>
>
>
> But with some smart, automated load management, this can work just fine.
>
>
>
> Is there anything like the Generac SMM (http://www.generac.com/all-
> products/transfer-switches/home-backup) out there that does not depend on
> decreasing cycles/hz to recognize its bumping into max load conditions?
>
>
>
> *Howard “Scot” Arey*
>
> 254-300-1228 <(254)%20300-1228>
>
> scot.a...@solarcentex.com
>
>
>
> [image: Solar Centex Logo - No Back.png 10 percent resize]
>
>
>
>
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>
> --
>
> Chris Mason
>
> NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™
>
> Solar Design Engineer
>
> Generac Generators Industrial technician
>
>
>
> www.cometsolar.com 
>
> 264.235.5670 <(264)%20235-5670>
>
> 869.662.5670 <(869)%20662-5670>
>
> Skype: netconcepts
>
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-- 
Chris Mason
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™
Solar Design Engineer
Generac Generators Industrial technician

www.cometsolar.com 
264.235.5670
869.662.5670
Skype: netconcepts
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