Re: [RE-wrenches] Adding generators to PV systems

[Wayne Irwin]

Thanks Mac and all,


I agree that putting the PV in a panel supported by the genset is not 
desirable. These are genset retrofits where the customers are hiring generator 
companies. I'm looking to avoid issues before they happen. Fortunately all 
customers (so far) are looking into or have purchased Generac which according 
to Mac has a Smart Management Module (SMM) option/accessory which may be the 
easiest solution. If the x-fer panels have a tap on the line side for the PV 
that would be best solution. I looked at one install today of a 400A Generac 
X-fer panel and it did not have line side tap.


Most generator companies have no clue about how solar works and so we're doing 
some educating (or at least attempting) and research of our own.

Thanks for all of your input!


Wayne Irwin,
President
License #CVC56695
State Licensed Solar Contractor
Pure Energy Solar International Inc.
wa...@pureenergysolar.com
http://PureEnergySolar.com
http://SolarChargingStation.net
352 377-6527 Office
352 336-3299 Fax


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From: RE-wrenches  on behalf of Mac 
Lewis 
Sent: Friday, January 12, 2018 8:35 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Adding generators to PV systems

Hi Wayne,

As Tump suggested, getting the solar out of the load center served by the 
generator is a great way to go.  You can also do a relay that opens the solar 
circuit in the event the generator is operating.

Another option that I've used is Generac's Smart Management Module (SMM).  
These are designed to be load management relays and shed when frequency is 
dipping under load.  However they can also be used to lock out loads during 
generator operation.  I haven't used them for non-Generac generators but I 
suspect they would work fine.  They don't require any communication, the logic 
is based on the waveform getting sent to the load so they can be situated far 
away from the transfer switch and generator.

On Fri, Jan 12, 2018 at 3:44 AM, Tump > 
wrote:
2 suggestions; the first is installing the GT inverter output on the utility 
side of the T switch
( Manu’s recommended spot)
. The second is have the generator tech set the frequency a bit lower then 59.5 
Hz. (57-58 Hz.) which is usually the lower spot where the GT inverters will 
latch on and begin to output. Make sure that this setting is noted on the 
generator so the next tech will leave it at this setting.
On Jan 11, 2018, at 8:54 PM, Wayne Irwin 
> wrote:

Hello All,

We have several customers adding generators to their homes on which we have 
previously installed PV systems.
Historically most generators didn't produce a clean enough 60Hz sinewave to get 
the inverters to feed back.
However, with the generator technology improving and the introduction of 
inverter generators, I'm concerned that if the inverters feed back to the 
generator it will smoke the stator.

I'm wondering if any of you have any experience/issues?  If so, what solutions 
or recommendations do you have?

Thanks,


Wayne Irwin,
President
License #CVC56695
State Licensed Solar Contractor
Pure Energy Solar International Inc.
wa...@pureenergysolar.com
http://PureEnergySolar.com
http://SolarChargingStation.net
352 377-6527 Office
352 336-3299 Fax


The Sun Is Always Shining!

The content of this message is Pure Energy Solar Confidential. If you are not 
the intended recipient and have received this message in error, any use or 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Adding generators to PV systems

[Aaron Mandelkorn]

We do these all the time.  Relocation of the pv input from the load center
to the utility side of the generator transfer switch has always been our
solution.

Aaron Mandelkorn
President / Founder
Renewable Energy Outfitters
www.reosolar.com
Off Grid Depot
www.offgridnow.com
970-596-3744



On Jan 12, 2018 4:00 PM, "Jerry Shafer"  wrote:

> Wayne
> We will not connect a grid tie inverter down stream of a gen-set, you
> don't want the inverter attempting to connect, when it comes right down to
> it, Why would you want to it would be a very small micro grid that if and
> when the demand is less then the inverter output would be then the gen-set
> would produce no power, volts yes amps no, then the volts climb the
> inverter discos and bam the genny has to make it all up. We have 8 k to 250
> k gennys and PV systems attached all are upstream or in switches to turn
> them off.
> Jerry
>
> On Thu, Jan 11, 2018 at 3:54 PM, Wayne Irwin 
> wrote:
>
>> Hello All,
>>
>>
>> We have several customers adding generators to their homes on which we
>> have previously installed PV systems.
>>
>> Historically most generators didn't produce a clean enough 60Hz sinewave
>> to get the inverters to feed back.
>>
>> However, with the generator technology improving and the introduction of
>> inverter generators, I'm concerned that if the inverters feed back to the
>> generator it will smoke the stator.
>>
>>
>> I'm wondering if any of you have any experience/issues?  If so, what
>> solutions or recommendations do you have?
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>>
>>
>> Wayne Irwin,
>> President
>> License #CVC56695
>> State Licensed Solar Contractor
>> Pure Energy Solar International Inc.
>> wa...@pureenergysolar.com 
>> http://PureEnergySolar.com
>> http://SolarChargingStation.net 
>> 352 377-6527 <(352)%20377-6527> Office
>> 352 336-3299 <(352)%20336-3299> Fax
>>
>>
>> The Sun Is Always Shining!
>>
>> The content of this message is Pure Energy Solar Confidential. If you are
>> not the intended recipient and have received this message in error, any use
>> or distribution is prohibited. Please notify me immediately by reply e-mail
>> and delete this message from your computer system. Thank you.
>>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Adding generators to PV systems

[Jerry Shafer]

Wayne
We will not connect a grid tie inverter down stream of a gen-set, you don't
want the inverter attempting to connect, when it comes right down to it,
Why would you want to it would be a very small micro grid that if and when
the demand is less then the inverter output would be then the gen-set would
produce no power, volts yes amps no, then the volts climb the inverter
discos and bam the genny has to make it all up. We have 8 k to 250 k gennys
and PV systems attached all are upstream or in switches to turn them off.
Jerry

On Thu, Jan 11, 2018 at 3:54 PM, Wayne Irwin 
wrote:

> Hello All,
>
>
> We have several customers adding generators to their homes on which we
> have previously installed PV systems.
>
> Historically most generators didn't produce a clean enough 60Hz sinewave
> to get the inverters to feed back.
>
> However, with the generator technology improving and the introduction of
> inverter generators, I'm concerned that if the inverters feed back to the
> generator it will smoke the stator.
>
>
> I'm wondering if any of you have any experience/issues?  If so, what
> solutions or recommendations do you have?
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> Wayne Irwin,
> President
> License #CVC56695
> State Licensed Solar Contractor
> Pure Energy Solar International Inc.
> wa...@pureenergysolar.com 
> http://PureEnergySolar.com
> http://SolarChargingStation.net 
> 352 377-6527 <(352)%20377-6527> Office
> 352 336-3299 <(352)%20336-3299> Fax
>
>
> The Sun Is Always Shining!
>
> The content of this message is Pure Energy Solar Confidential. If you are
> not the intended recipient and have received this message in error, any use
> or distribution is prohibited. Please notify me immediately by reply e-mail
> and delete this message from your computer system. Thank you.
>
> ___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Sunflower - Energy Innovations

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar]

What a surprise... A mechanical nightmare from Sunflower.

On a similar note Array Technology use to make the AZ 125 which was a
totally reliable tracker on a 6 inch pole about 125 sqft of solar. I have
some from 15 years that have never needed anything but a squirt of grease.

The still make the AZ 250 but it's 8 inch pole is pretty hard to get into
remote hilly places.

Their HZLA is great also but not easy on some hill.


Anyone see a good single axis pole mount out there?

I keep hoping as my stock of the old Wattsuns/Array Technology is down to
one?

Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060
> Wrenches,
>
> Just had a company reach out and ask if we could fix an Energy Innovations
> Sunflower CPV system. Their contractor has gone out of business as well as
> Energy Innovations (go figure). I said NO WAY but, thought I would ask on
> his behalf if any of you knows if someone bought their IP and can offer
> repair services for him.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Chad Waits
> President/Owner ­ Net Zero Solar
> 101 W. 5th St., Tucson, AZ  85705
> Office: 520-207-4053
> Cell: 520-270-4873
> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
>
>
>
>
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text 209 813 0060

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Adding generators to PV systems

[Mac Lewis]

Hi Wayne,

As Tump suggested, getting the solar out of the load center served by the
generator is a great way to go.  You can also do a relay that opens the
solar circuit in the event the generator is operating.

Another option that I've used is Generac's Smart Management Module (SMM).
These are designed to be load management relays and shed when frequency is
dipping under load.  However they can also be used to lock out loads during
generator operation.  I haven't used them for non-Generac generators but I
suspect they would work fine.  They don't require any communication, the
logic is based on the waveform getting sent to the load so they can be
situated far away from the transfer switch and generator.

On Fri, Jan 12, 2018 at 3:44 AM, Tump  wrote:

> 2 suggestions; the first is installing the GT inverter output on the
> utility side of the T switch
> ( Manu’s recommended spot)
> . The second is have the generator tech set the frequency a bit lower then
> 59.5 Hz. (57-58 Hz.) which is usually the lower spot where the GT inverters
> will latch on and begin to output. Make sure that this setting is noted on
> the generator so the next tech will leave it at this setting.
>
> On Jan 11, 2018, at 8:54 PM, Wayne Irwin 
> wrote:
>
> Hello All,
>
> We have several customers adding generators to their homes on which we
> have previously installed PV systems.
> Historically most generators didn't produce a clean enough 60Hz sinewave
> to get the inverters to feed back.
> However, with the generator technology improving and the introduction of
> inverter generators, I'm concerned that if the inverters feed back to the
> generator it will smoke the stator.
>
> I'm wondering if any of you have any experience/issues?  If so, what
> solutions or recommendations do you have?
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> Wayne Irwin,
> President
> License #CVC56695
> State Licensed Solar Contractor
> Pure Energy Solar International Inc.
> wa...@pureenergysolar.com 
> http://PureEnergySolar.com
> 
> http://SolarChargingStation.net 
> 352 377-6527 <(352)%20377-6527> Office
> 352 336-3299 <(352)%20336-3299> Fax
>
>
> The Sun Is Always Shining!
>
> The content of this message is Pure Energy Solar Confidential. If you are
> not the intended recipient and have received this message in error, any use
> or distribution is prohibited. Please notify me immediately by reply e-mail
> and delete this message from your computer system. Thank you.
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
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> Solarwinds Northernlights
> *   Serving Mid Coast Maine & Northern California*
> * 207-832-7574 <(207)%20832-7574>   Cl.
> 610-517-8401 <(610)%20517-8401>  *
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>
>
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-- 



Mac Lewis

*"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates*
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Adding generators to PV systems

[Tump]

2 suggestions; the first is installing the GT inverter output on the utility 
side of the T switch 
( Manu’s recommended spot)
. The second is have the generator tech set the frequency a bit lower then 59.5 
Hz. (57-58 Hz.) which is usually the lower spot where the GT inverters will 
latch on and begin to output. Make sure that this setting is noted on the 
generator so the next tech will leave it at this setting.
> On Jan 11, 2018, at 8:54 PM, Wayne Irwin  wrote:
> 
> Hello All,
> 
> We have several customers adding generators to their homes on which we have 
> previously installed PV systems.
> Historically most generators didn't produce a clean enough 60Hz sinewave to 
> get the inverters to feed back.
> However, with the generator technology improving and the introduction of 
> inverter generators, I'm concerned that if the inverters feed back to the 
> generator it will smoke the stator.
> 
> I'm wondering if any of you have any experience/issues?  If so, what 
> solutions or recommendations do you have?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> 
> Wayne Irwin,
> President
> License #CVC56695 
> State Licensed Solar Contractor
> Pure Energy Solar International Inc. 
> wa...@pureenergysolar.com  
>  http://PureEnergySolar.com 
> 
> http://SolarChargingStation.net 
> 352 377-6527 Office
> 352 336-3299 Fax
> 
> 
> The Sun Is Always Shining!
> 
> The content of this message is Pure Energy Solar Confidential. If you are not 
> the intended recipient and have received this message in error, any use or 
> distribution is prohibited. Please notify me immediately by reply e-mail and 
> delete this message from your computer system. Thank you.
> ___
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>   
>  www.SWNL.net 
> 
> Solarwinds Northernlights   
>Serving Mid Coast Maine & Northern California
>  207-832-7574   Cl. 610-517-8401  
> 
>   Blair "TUMP" May
>  MAINE'S CHARTER 
>   NABCEP"Certified PV Installer" 
>
>     MAINE'S CHARTER 
>   Trace Xantrex "Certified" Dealer / Installer"
> 


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