Re: [RE-wrenches] Multi-meters

[Kevin Pegg]

I've been packing a Hioki Power Quality Analyser along with me to all manner of 
remote sites for at least a decade. It has performed perfectly and would not 
hesitate to recommend that brand.

Kevin

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Will White
Sent: September-13-18 12:19 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Multi-meters

I've google searched for 1,500 VDC meters and didn't come up with anything 
other than the Amprobe model.

I looked at the Hioki website and it looks pretty amazing and it costs around 
$340. It's got many features plus it hooks to an app via bluetooth so it can 
datalog.

On Thu, Sep 13, 2018 at 2:18 PM 
mailto:solar1onl...@charter.net>> wrote:
Hi Will, Jay, et al,

I have three years experience with a lower capacity Hioki clamp meter and could 
not be more pleased.

Have you investigated what a Google search offers?

Thanks,

Bill Loesch
314 631 1094



-
From: "jay"
To: "RE-wrenches"
Cc:
Sent: Thursday September 13 2018 10:07:17AM
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Multi-meters

HI Will,

I found this unit from Japan.
Hioki CM4372

jay

peltz power



On Sep 13, 2018, at 5:28 AM, Will White 
mailto:w...@solarenergy.org>> wrote:

Hello Wrenches,

I've started doing some work on 1,000 VDC systems so I need to upgrade my 
meters. What I'd really like is a clamp-on amp meter that is rated for 1,500 
VDC but they don't seem to exist. I want to get something now that I won't have 
to upgrade in a few years if I end up working on 1,500 VDC systems.

The only 1,500 VDC meter I've found are the Amprobe HD160C which is a 
multi-meter (not clamp-on amp meter) that is rated for 1,500 VDC but can only 
measure up to 2 A with their amp clamp attachment. The other option is the 
Seaward Solar Utility Pro but I don't have that much money in the budget.

Is it worth getting a 1,500 VDC meter or is 1,000 VDC enough? What are you 
techs in the field using?

Thanks,
Will

--
Will White
Curriculum Developer

[image]
e: w...@solarenergy.org
w: www.solarenergy.org
p: 802-272-3092

PV Installation Professional
# 093006-34


FACT:  If we covered 0.33% of the earth with solar panels, we could power the 
world with renewable energy.

Do you envision a world powered by renewable energy? Be the 
change.
___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

List Address: 
RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

List Address: 
RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org


--
Will White
Curriculum Developer

[https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download=12H3Cu2gnX7TKTeETn1WsYqa8cp6gsEj1=0B7yAwArWHgPbNzhGK00wT0diY1c1NWhlRlNocDRVd045eTFjPQ]
e: w...@solarenergy.org
w: www.solarenergy.org
p: 802-272-3092

PV Installation Professional
# 093006-34


FACT:  If we covered 0.33% of the earth with solar panels, we could power the 
world with renewable energy.

Do you envision a world powered by renewable energy? Be the 
change.
___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] Canadian Solar CS6P-260P

[glenn.b...@glbcc.com]

Remove one from the end of a row, install it as the replacement. Put a new 
oddball at the end of the row.
Sent from my 'smart' phone so please excuse spelling and typos.
-- Original message--From: Kristopher SchmidDate: Thu, Sep 13, 2018 
12:45 PMTo: RE-wrenches;Cc: Subject:[RE-wrenches] Canadian Solar CS6P-260P
Greetings,
I am looking to replace a damaged Canadian Solar CS6P-260P.  Does anyone happen 
to have one lying around?  This is on a ground mount with top down attachment 
and i would prefer to not have to slide the whole row to make room for a larger 
dimension module.  Width is 39.1" (992mm).


Shine On!

Kris Schmid
Legacy Solar, LLC
137 West 1st Avenue
Luck, WI 54853
www.legacysolar.com
715-653-4295
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
Licensed Wisconsin Master Electrician
BSEE

___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] Low voltage DC

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar]

I recently finished an install with the Iron Edison of Colorado. The
install was with their LFP 48v 400AH 20KWH battery. Here is a link below.
They are plug and play with Schneider, others also?, and have a 16 year
design life with better prices than Blue Ion. They also make the 30 year
life NIFE (edison) battery. Nice to be able to buy them from the
manufacturer in CO.


https://ironedison.com/48-volt-lithium-battery-for-solar 
Dave Angelini
Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines
don't"
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ [1]
e-mail offgridso...@sti.net
[2]
text 209 813 0060

On Wed, 12 Sep 2018 15:26:53 -1000, "Marco
Mangelsdorf"  wrote:   

Aloha all, 

At the risk of whacking at a hornet's
nest...lower voltage DC is s 80s and 90s especially when it comes to
grid-tie applications with battery storage. 

The time of OutBack and
Schneider and all the others doing 48VDC is drawing to close. Enough
already. Thank you for your service. 

The sooner the industry fully
migrates to higher voltage DC (Tesla, LG Chem, BYD and others), the better.


marco 

FROM: RE-wrenches
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] ON BEHALF OF Peter
Giroux
SENT: Wednesday, September 12, 2018 3:03 PM
TO: RE-wrenches
SUBJECT:
Re: [RE-wrenches] Any thoughts on this approach to adding battery backup to
an existing grid tie system will be appreciated.   

Ken   

 We have had
terrific success with AC Coupling. Yes there are some differences from Dc
Coupled systems but if built properly, customer is willing to learn how to
use it and maintain it and you put the correct relays in to shut off the
string inverters if battery voltage gets to high, great.   

 If you have a
customer that refuses to exercise the system, not check the batteries if
they are fla's and overloads it when the power goes down then not so cool.
We have customers that power shave with it, have had backup power for days
until the power came back on as they monitored the loads and were judicious
about use. Ray is right in the sense the customer needs to learn how to use
the system or they can royally screw it up ( yes we have had two do this,
one learned the other not ).   

 The Radians have been great work horses
for this application, sadly as Ray mentioned Outback has moved away from it
as a primary solution.

peter giroux   

ASAE   

Atlanta

-
Original Message -

FROM: Ken Schaal [3]

TO: RE-wrenches [4] ;
Ken Schaal [5]

SENT: Wednesday, September 12, 2018 8:11 PM  


SUBJECT: [RE-wrenches] Any thoughts on this approach to adding battery
backup to an existing grid tie system will be appreciated.  


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyhkIfS5Z-Q [6] 

-

___
List
sponsored by Redwood Alliance

List Address:
RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org [7]

Change listserver email address &
settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
[8]

List-Archive:
http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
[9]

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm [10]

Check
out or update participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org [11]-- 




Links:
--
[1] http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
[2]
mailto:offgridso...@sti.net
[3] mailto:k...@commonwealthsolar.com
[4]
mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
[5] mailto:cwsol...@gmail.com
[6]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyhkIfS5Z-Q
[7]
mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
[8]
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
[9]
http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
[10]
http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
[11]
http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] Multi-meters

[Jerry Shafer]

Will, Wrenches
Fluke make quite a few, the 381 and 376 are both 1000vdc/vac, they do ac
and dc amps also which most cheaper units only do AC amps.  There are more
too, l have found its best to stay away from some of the less known meters
brands, my scopes are even higher but so is the cost.
Jerry

On Thu, Sep 13, 2018, 8:07 AM jay  wrote:

> HI Will,
>
> I found this unit from Japan.  Hioki CM4372
>
> jay
>
> peltz power
>
>
>
> On Sep 13, 2018, at 5:28 AM, Will White  wrote:
>
> Hello Wrenches,
>
> I've started doing some work on 1,000 VDC systems so I need to upgrade my
> meters. What I'd really like is a clamp-on amp meter that is rated for
> 1,500 VDC but they don't seem to exist. I want to get something now that I
> won't have to upgrade in a few years if I end up working on 1,500 VDC
> systems.
>
> The only 1,500 VDC meter I've found are the Amprobe HD160C which is a
> multi-meter (not clamp-on amp meter) that is rated for 1,500 VDC but can
> only measure up to 2 A with their amp clamp attachment. The other option is
> the Seaward Solar Utility Pro but I don't have that much money in the
> budget.
>
> Is it worth getting a 1,500 VDC meter or is 1,000 VDC enough? What are you
> techs in the field using?
>
> Thanks,
> Will
>
> --
> *Will White*
> Curriculum Developer
>
>
> e: w...@solarenergy.org
> w: www.solarenergy.org
> p: 802-272-3092
>
> PV Installation Professional
> # 093006-34
>
> *FACT:  If we covered 0.33% of the earth with solar panels, we could power
> the world with renewable energy.*
>
> Do you envision a world powered by renewable energy? Be the change
> .
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>
___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] Multi-meters

[Will White]

I've google searched for 1,500 VDC meters and didn't come up with anything
other than the Amprobe model.

I looked at the Hioki website and it looks pretty amazing and it costs
around $340. It's got many features plus it hooks to an app via bluetooth
so it can datalog.

On Thu, Sep 13, 2018 at 2:18 PM  wrote:

> Hi Will, Jay, et al,
>
> I have three years experience with a lower capacity Hioki clamp meter and
> could not be more pleased.
>
> Have you investigated what a Google search offers?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bill Loesch
> 314 631 1094
>
>
> -
> From: "jay"
> To: "RE-wrenches"
> Cc:
> Sent: Thursday September 13 2018 10:07:17AM
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Multi-meters
>
> HI Will,
>
> I found this unit from Japan.   Hioki CM4372
>
> jay
>
> peltz power
>
>
>
> On Sep 13, 2018, at 5:28 AM, Will White  wrote:
>
> Hello Wrenches,
>
> I've started doing some work on 1,000 VDC systems so I need to upgrade my
> meters. What I'd really like is a clamp-on amp meter that is rated for
> 1,500 VDC but they don't seem to exist. I want to get something now that I
> won't have to upgrade in a few years if I end up working on 1,500 VDC
> systems.
>
> The only 1,500 VDC meter I've found are the Amprobe HD160C which is a
> multi-meter (not clamp-on amp meter) that is rated for 1,500 VDC but can
> only measure up to 2 A with their amp clamp attachment. The other option is
> the Seaward Solar Utility Pro but I don't have that much money in the
> budget.
>
> Is it worth getting a 1,500 VDC meter or is 1,000 VDC enough? What are you
> techs in the field using?
>
> Thanks,
> Will
>
> --
> *Will White*
> Curriculum Developer
>
> [image: image]
> e: w...@solarenergy.org
> w: www.solarenergy.org
> p: 802-272-3092
>
> PV Installation Professional
> # 093006-34
>
> *FACT:  If we covered 0.33% of the earth with solar panels, we could power
> the world with renewable energy.*
>
> Do you envision a world powered by renewable energy? Be the change
> .
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> 
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>

-- 
*Will White*
Curriculum Developer


e: w...@solarenergy.org
w: www.solarenergy.org
p: 802-272-3092

PV Installation Professional
# 093006-34

*FACT:  If we covered 0.33% of the earth with solar panels, we could power
the world with renewable energy.*

Do you envision a world powered by renewable energy? Be the change
.
___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] Multi-meters

[solar1online]

Hi Will, Jay, et al,
I have three years experience with a lower capacity Hioki clamp meter
and could not be more pleased.
Have you investigated what a Google search offers?
Thanks,
Bill Loesch314 631 1094

-From: "jay" 
To: "RE-wrenches"
Cc: 
Sent: Thursday September 13 2018 10:07:17AM
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Multi-meters

 HI Will,  
   I found this unit from Japan. 

HIOKI CM4372

   jay   
   peltz power   

   On Sep 13, 2018, at 5:28 AM, Will White  wrote:  
Hello Wrenches,   
   I've started doing some work on 1,000 VDC systems so I need to
upgrade my meters. What I'd really like is a clamp-on amp meter that
is rated for 1,500 VDC but they don't seem to exist. I want to get
something now that I won't have to upgrade in a few years if I end up
working on 1,500 VDC systems.   
   The only 1,500 VDC meter I've found are the Amprobe HD160C which is
a multi-meter (not clamp-on amp meter) that is rated for 1,500 VDC but
can only measure up to 2 A with their amp clamp attachment. The other
option is the Seaward Solar Utility Pro but I don't have that much
money in the budget.   
   Is it worth getting a 1,500 VDC meter or is 1,000 VDC enough? What
are you techs in the field using?   
   Thanks,   Will   
  -- 
WILL WHITE  Curriculum Developer   

   e: w...@solarenergy.org [2] 
w: www.solarenergy.org [3]p: 802-272-3092

 PV Installation Professional   # 093006-34 

_FACT: If we covered 0.33% of the earth with solar panels, we could
power the world with renewable energy._ 

Do you envision a world powered by renewable energy? Be the change
[4].  ___
 List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

 List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org [5]

 Change listserver email address & settings:
 [6]http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
[7]

 List-Archive:
http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
[8]

 List rules & etiquette:
 www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

 Check out or update participant bios:
 www.members.re-wrenches.org

  

Links:
--
[1] mailto:w...@solarenergy.org
[2] mailto:w...@solarenergy.org
[3] http://www.solarenergy.org/
[4] http://solarenergy.org/donate
[5] mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
[6]
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
[7]
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
[8]
http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html

___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

[RE-wrenches] Canadian Solar CS6P-260P

[Kristopher Schmid]

Greetings,

I am looking to replace a damaged Canadian Solar CS6P-260P.  Does anyone
happen to have one lying around?  This is on a ground mount with top down
attachment and i would prefer to not have to slide the whole row to make
room for a larger dimension module.  Width is 39.1" (992mm).


Shine On!

Kris Schmid
Legacy Solar, LLC
137 West 1st Avenue
Luck, WI 54853
www.legacysolar.com
715-653-4295
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
Licensed Wisconsin Master Electrician
BSEE
___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] Multi-meters

[jay]

HI Will,

I found this unit from Japan.  
Hioki CM4372

jay 

peltz power



> On Sep 13, 2018, at 5:28 AM, Will White  wrote:
> 
> Hello Wrenches,
> 
> I've started doing some work on 1,000 VDC systems so I need to upgrade my 
> meters. What I'd really like is a clamp-on amp meter that is rated for 1,500 
> VDC but they don't seem to exist. I want to get something now that I won't 
> have to upgrade in a few years if I end up working on 1,500 VDC systems. 
> 
> The only 1,500 VDC meter I've found are the Amprobe HD160C which is a 
> multi-meter (not clamp-on amp meter) that is rated for 1,500 VDC but can only 
> measure up to 2 A with their amp clamp attachment. The other option is the 
> Seaward Solar Utility Pro but I don't have that much money in the budget.
> 
> Is it worth getting a 1,500 VDC meter or is 1,000 VDC enough? What are you 
> techs in the field using?
> 
> Thanks,
> Will 
> 
> -- 
> Will White
> Curriculum Developer
> 
> 
> e: w...@solarenergy.org  
> w: www.solarenergy.org  
> p: 802-272-3092
> 
> PV Installation Professional
> # 093006-34
> 
> FACT:  If we covered 0.33% of the earth with solar panels, we could power the 
> world with renewable energy.
> Do you envision a world powered by renewable energy? Be the change 
> .
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
> 
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
> 
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
> 
> List-Archive: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
> 
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
> 
> Check out or update participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
> 

___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] Low voltage DC v. higher voltage DC

[cwarfel]

We just struggled through our first two OB RS Radian systems. We did not 
opt for the "package" including batteries as we and our customers 
thought it was overpriced.  We build our own battery boxes and use cost 
competitive batteries based on the customer's need.


OB needs to improve the installer experience for deciphering their 
manuals for at least the 4048.  It seems like the forgotten 
stepchildcompared to the 8048.


That being said, we did get the systems running. The Radian seems solid.

Probably most of you know I am very much opposed to NEC Rapid 
Shutdownfor reasons I have stated on this list. Modifying it, if not 
eliminating it, would not make systems less safe, and would greatly 
reduce these machinations of how to best meet this type of customer's 
needs.


Chris



On 9/13/2018 2:14 AM, Marco Mangelsdorf wrote:

The SMA Sunny Storage looks promising.

It will be able to work with the LGC RESU10 HV battery and, sooner 
rather than later I hope, BYD package as well.


And it will allow for a backup generator tie in.

Ta-dah!

marco

On Thursday, September 13, 2018, Bruce Erickson 
mailto:br...@mendocinosolar.com>> wrote:


Hi Marco,

I partially agree with you. I recently bid Outback, StorEdge, and
Pika options for a GTBB customer, partly to understand pricing for
myself, and found OB to be so much more expensive. The customer
really wanted a system that would be to be able to charge the
batteries off a generator in an outage, understandably. But the
extra thousands in cost for OB ended up being prohibitive. Add-on
rapid shutdown is a killer. So he’s opting for a nice modern high
voltage DC system, with optimizers and built-in RSD, but when
there’s an extended outage, he’ll have to hope the sun comes out
right after the storm to recharge the batteries, or he’ll end up
in the dark again, until the grid comes back. Maybe there’s a high
voltage inverter that allows generator charging, or a third-party
battery charger, that I’m not aware of. Otherwise high voltage
systems are very limited for backup, at least in winter storm
scenarios.

*Bruce Erickson*
Mendocino Solar Service
PO Box 1252
Mendocino, CA 95460
707-937-1701
707-937-1741 fax
br...@mendocinosolar.com 

/Connecting Mendocino County to Solar Since//1994/








On Sep 12, 2018, at 6:26 PM, Marco Mangelsdorf
mailto:ma...@pvthawaii.com>> wrote:

Aloha all,
At the risk of whacking at a hornet’s nest…lower voltage DC is
s 80s and 90s especially when it comes to grid-tie
applications with battery storage.
The time of OutBack and Schneider and all the others doing 48VDC
is drawing to close.  Enough already.  Thank you for your service.
The sooner the industry fully migrates to higher voltage DC
(Tesla, LG Chem, BYD and others), the better.
marco
*From:*RE-wrenches
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
]*On Behalf
Of*Peter Giroux
*Sent:*Wednesday, September 12, 2018 3:03 PM
*To:*RE-wrenches
*Subject:*Re: [RE-wrenches] Any thoughts on this approach to
adding battery backup to an existing grid tie system will be
appreciated.
Ken
We have had terrific success with AC Coupling. Yes there are some
differences from Dc Coupled systems but if built properly,
customer is willing to learn how to use it and maintain it and
you put the correct relays in to shut off the string inverters if
battery voltage gets to high, great.
If you have a customer that refuses to exercise the system, not
check the batteries if they are fla's and overloads it when the
power goes down then not so cool. We have customers that power
shave with it, have had backup power for days until the power
came back on as they monitored the loads and were judicious about
use. Ray is right in the sense the customer needs to learn how to
use the system or they can royally screw it up ( yes we have had
two do this, one learned the other not ).
The Radians have been great work horses for this application,
sadly as Ray mentioned Outback has moved away from it as a
primary solution.
peter giroux
ASAE
Atlanta

- Original Message -
*From:*Ken Schaal 
*To:*RE-wrenches ;Ken
Schaal 
*Sent:*Wednesday, September 12, 2018 8:11 PM
*Subject:*[RE-wrenches] Any thoughts on this approach to adding
battery backup to an existing grid tie system will be appreciated.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyhkIfS5Z-Q



___
List sponsored by Redwood 

Re: [RE-wrenches] Low voltage DC v. higher voltage DC

[Harry Mahon]

Marco -

The Sunny Boy Storage "Advanced Backup Unit" accessory or ABU will be discussed 
at SPI in a couple weeks - first units are being stocked now at our warehouses 
in US.  The ABU will allow the SBS to be a grid former in case of utility 
outage, however there are no plans to have any generator inputs/controls to 
allow for battery charging from generator.

And yes, BYD BBox HV 5.12/7.68/10.24 devices will be supported when available 
in US (will be this year I understand)

Mike

-


The SMA Sunny Storage looks promising.



It will be able to work with the LGC RESU10 HV battery and, sooner rather

than later I hope, BYD package as well.



And it will allow for a backup generator tie in.



Ta-dah!



marco



On Thursday, September 13, 2018, Bruce Erickson http://lists.re-wrenches.org/listinfo.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org>>

wrote:



> Hi Marco,

>

> I partially agree with you. I recently bid Outback, StorEdge, and Pika

> options for a GTBB customer, partly to understand pricing for myself, and

> found OB to be so much more expensive. The customer really wanted a system

> that would be to be able to charge the batteries off a generator in an

> outage, understandably. But the extra thousands in cost for OB ended up

> being prohibitive. Add-on rapid shutdown is a killer. So he's opting for a

> nice modern high voltage DC system, with optimizers and built-in RSD, but

> when there's an extended outage, he'll have to hope the sun comes out right

> after the storm to recharge the batteries, or he'll end up in the dark

> again, until the grid comes back. Maybe there's a high voltage inverter

> that allows generator charging, or a third-party battery charger, that I'm

> not aware of. Otherwise high voltage systems are very limited for backup,

> at least in winter storm scenarios.

>

> *Bruce Erickson*

> Mendocino Solar Service

> PO Box 1252

> Mendocino, CA 95460

> 707-937-1701

> 707-937-1741 fax

> bruce at 
> mendocinosolar.com

>

> *Connecting Mendocino County to Solar Since* *1994*

>

>

___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] Low voltage DC v. higher voltage DC

[Jerry Shafer]

Wrenches
One size might not fit all the SMA Storage is limited to max 3 LG
batteries, that is a far cry from some of my smaller systems. Also LG per
LG is not a good battery for sustained back up, you may want to verify but
there is also inverter limitations. Outback might be an option for true
long term output while off grid.
Jerry

On Sep 12, 2018 11:22 PM, "Marco Mangelsdorf"  wrote:

The SMA Sunny Storage looks promising.

It will be able to work with the LGC RESU10 HV battery and, sooner rather
than later I hope, BYD package as well.

And it will allow for a backup generator tie in.

Ta-dah!

marco

On Thursday, September 13, 2018, Bruce Erickson 
wrote:

> Hi Marco,
>
> I partially agree with you. I recently bid Outback, StorEdge, and Pika
> options for a GTBB customer, partly to understand pricing for myself, and
> found OB to be so much more expensive. The customer really wanted a system
> that would be to be able to charge the batteries off a generator in an
> outage, understandably. But the extra thousands in cost for OB ended up
> being prohibitive. Add-on rapid shutdown is a killer. So he’s opting for a
> nice modern high voltage DC system, with optimizers and built-in RSD, but
> when there’s an extended outage, he’ll have to hope the sun comes out right
> after the storm to recharge the batteries, or he’ll end up in the dark
> again, until the grid comes back. Maybe there’s a high voltage inverter
> that allows generator charging, or a third-party battery charger, that I’m
> not aware of. Otherwise high voltage systems are very limited for backup,
> at least in winter storm scenarios.
>
> *Bruce Erickson*
> Mendocino Solar Service
> PO Box 1252
> Mendocino, CA 95460
> 707-937-1701
> 707-937-1741 fax
> br...@mendocinosolar.com
>
> *Connecting Mendocino County to Solar Since* *1994*
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sep 12, 2018, at 6:26 PM, Marco Mangelsdorf 
> wrote:
>
> Aloha all,
>
> At the risk of whacking at a hornet’s nest…lower voltage DC is s 80s
> and 90s especially when it comes to grid-tie applications with battery
> storage.
>
> The time of OutBack and Schneider and all the others doing 48VDC is
> drawing to close.  Enough already.  Thank you for your service.
>
> The sooner the industry fully migrates to higher voltage DC (Tesla, LG
> Chem, BYD and others), the better.
>
> marco
>
> *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
> ] *On Behalf Of *Peter Giroux
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 12, 2018 3:03 PM
> *To:* RE-wrenches
> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Any thoughts on this approach to adding
> battery backup to an existing grid tie system will be appreciated.
>
> Ken
>
>   We have had terrific success with AC Coupling. Yes there are some
> differences from Dc Coupled systems but if built properly, customer is
> willing to learn how to use it and maintain it and you put the correct
> relays in to shut off the string inverters if battery voltage gets to high,
> great.
>
>   If you have a customer that refuses to exercise the system, not check
> the batteries if they are fla's and overloads it when the power goes down
> then not so cool. We have customers that power shave with it, have had
> backup power for days until the power came back on as they monitored the
> loads and were judicious about use. Ray is right in the sense the customer
> needs to learn how to use the system or they can royally screw it up ( yes
> we have had two do this, one learned the other not ).
>
>   The Radians have been great work horses for this application, sadly as
> Ray mentioned Outback has moved away from it as a primary solution.
>
> peter giroux
> ASAE
> Atlanta
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Ken Schaal 
> *To:* RE-wrenches  ; Ken Schaal
> 
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 12, 2018 8:11 PM
> *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Any thoughts on this approach to adding battery
> backup to an existing grid tie system will be appreciated.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyhkIfS5Z-Q
> --
>
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>
> 

[RE-wrenches] Multi-meters

[Will White]

Hello Wrenches,

I've started doing some work on 1,000 VDC systems so I need to upgrade my
meters. What I'd really like is a clamp-on amp meter that is rated for
1,500 VDC but they don't seem to exist. I want to get something now that I
won't have to upgrade in a few years if I end up working on 1,500 VDC
systems.

The only 1,500 VDC meter I've found are the Amprobe HD160C which is a
multi-meter (not clamp-on amp meter) that is rated for 1,500 VDC but can
only measure up to 2 A with their amp clamp attachment. The other option is
the Seaward Solar Utility Pro but I don't have that much money in the
budget.

Is it worth getting a 1,500 VDC meter or is 1,000 VDC enough? What are you
techs in the field using?

Thanks,
Will

-- 
*Will White*
Curriculum Developer


e: w...@solarenergy.org
w: www.solarenergy.org
p: 802-272-3092

PV Installation Professional
# 093006-34

*FACT:  If we covered 0.33% of the earth with solar panels, we could power
the world with renewable energy.*

Do you envision a world powered by renewable energy? Be the change
.
___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] Any thoughts on this approach to adding battery backup to an existing grid tie system will be appreciated.

[Will White]

I agree with everything Ray has said when you're using a system with
lead-acid batteries, however this doesn't apply to lithium-ion. Li
batteries don't need multistage charging like LA batteries do so they would
be a perfect fit for a retro-fit battery backup system that can only bulk
charge.

I'd also suggest people check out the Enphase IQ8 system which allows the
inverters to operate without the grid with no storage. They should also be
able to black start an AC coupled system with no grid unlike other AC
coupled designs. I haven't seen it in person but two of my co-workers
toured their demo project and it seems to live up to everything Enphase is
claiming.

Thanks,
Will

On Wed, Sep 12, 2018 at 8:38 PM Ray  wrote:

> I didn't watch the whole thing, but it looked like a standard AC couple
> set up with an Outback Radian.  My understanding is that Outback no longer
> supports AC Coupling, BTW.  I would never use that for an off grid system
> or  for longer outages.  In a very brief explanation,  it essentially
> bypasses any charge controlling to the batteries, and puts full Array power
> into the batteries until a relay (or phase shifting) disconnects the
> array.  No three stage charging, no taper charging, no float, no temp
> compensation.  Its like trying to fill a 5 gal bucket with a fire house, or
> drive a car with a throttle that's either off or at full throttle, no in
> between.  The other issue is that if the batteries get low and the inverter
> shuts off, the system will not recharge, and after a couple of weeks the
> batteries will be sulfated beyond recovery.
>
> My guess is that manus that advocated this approach got into trouble from
> end users that fried expensive battery banks during longer outages.  I
> would consider it the equivalent of cheap backup generators: a great backup
> system for folks that don't need it.   There are probably thousands of
> those out there with happy customers and installers, because its never
> actually been used for more than a few hours, and the batteries are
> properly charged from the grid 99.8% of the time.
>
> Ray Walters
> Remote Solar
> 303 505-8760
>
> On 9/12/18 6:11 PM, Ken Schaal wrote:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyhkIfS5Z-Q
>
>
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & 
> settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>
> List rules & etiquette:www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out or update participant bios:www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>

-- 
*Will White*
Curriculum Developer


e: w...@solarenergy.org
w: www.solarenergy.org
p: 802-272-3092

PV Installation Professional
# 093006-34

*FACT:  If we covered 0.33% of the earth with solar panels, we could power
the world with renewable energy.*

Do you envision a world powered by renewable energy? Be the change
.
___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

[RE-wrenches] Low voltage DC v. higher voltage DC

[Marco Mangelsdorf]

The SMA Sunny Storage looks promising.

It will be able to work with the LGC RESU10 HV battery and, sooner rather
than later I hope, BYD package as well.

And it will allow for a backup generator tie in.

Ta-dah!

marco

On Thursday, September 13, 2018, Bruce Erickson 
wrote:

> Hi Marco,
>
> I partially agree with you. I recently bid Outback, StorEdge, and Pika
> options for a GTBB customer, partly to understand pricing for myself, and
> found OB to be so much more expensive. The customer really wanted a system
> that would be to be able to charge the batteries off a generator in an
> outage, understandably. But the extra thousands in cost for OB ended up
> being prohibitive. Add-on rapid shutdown is a killer. So he’s opting for a
> nice modern high voltage DC system, with optimizers and built-in RSD, but
> when there’s an extended outage, he’ll have to hope the sun comes out right
> after the storm to recharge the batteries, or he’ll end up in the dark
> again, until the grid comes back. Maybe there’s a high voltage inverter
> that allows generator charging, or a third-party battery charger, that I’m
> not aware of. Otherwise high voltage systems are very limited for backup,
> at least in winter storm scenarios.
>
> *Bruce Erickson*
> Mendocino Solar Service
> PO Box 1252
> Mendocino, CA 95460
> 707-937-1701
> 707-937-1741 fax
> br...@mendocinosolar.com
>
> *Connecting Mendocino County to Solar Since* *1994*
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sep 12, 2018, at 6:26 PM, Marco Mangelsdorf 
> wrote:
>
> Aloha all,
>
> At the risk of whacking at a hornet’s nest…lower voltage DC is s 80s
> and 90s especially when it comes to grid-tie applications with battery
> storage.
>
> The time of OutBack and Schneider and all the others doing 48VDC is
> drawing to close.  Enough already.  Thank you for your service.
>
> The sooner the industry fully migrates to higher voltage DC (Tesla, LG
> Chem, BYD and others), the better.
>
> marco
>
> *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
> ] *On Behalf Of *Peter Giroux
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 12, 2018 3:03 PM
> *To:* RE-wrenches
> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Any thoughts on this approach to adding
> battery backup to an existing grid tie system will be appreciated.
>
> Ken
>
>   We have had terrific success with AC Coupling. Yes there are some
> differences from Dc Coupled systems but if built properly, customer is
> willing to learn how to use it and maintain it and you put the correct
> relays in to shut off the string inverters if battery voltage gets to high,
> great.
>
>   If you have a customer that refuses to exercise the system, not check
> the batteries if they are fla's and overloads it when the power goes down
> then not so cool. We have customers that power shave with it, have had
> backup power for days until the power came back on as they monitored the
> loads and were judicious about use. Ray is right in the sense the customer
> needs to learn how to use the system or they can royally screw it up ( yes
> we have had two do this, one learned the other not ).
>
>   The Radians have been great work horses for this application, sadly as
> Ray mentioned Outback has moved away from it as a primary solution.
>
> peter giroux
> ASAE
> Atlanta
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Ken Schaal 
> *To:* RE-wrenches  ; Ken Schaal
> 
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 12, 2018 8:11 PM
> *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Any thoughts on this approach to adding battery
> backup to an existing grid tie system will be appreciated.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyhkIfS5Z-Q
> --
>
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.
> re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.
> re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>
>
___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html

List rules & etiquette: