Re: [RE-wrenches] 48 VDC Control fusing

[Jeff Clearwater]

Hi Drake,

Some in-line glass fuses and holders are not rated for 48 VDC.  The 
midnite 1 Amp breaker is an good option like Ray said but sometimes I 
prefer to use a fuse so it doesn't get accidentally shut off or so I can 
bury it behind a panel so the customer doesn't have too easy access.


So If I have easy access to a place to mount DIN Rail such as in a 
Midnite E-Panel - then I use a midnite touch-fuse holder 
 
and a 1 amp fuse.  Or you can get them at any supply house like this. 



And of course it's easy enough to add a piece of DIN Rail to the back of 
any panel.


I like using this approach for fusing 24 V power supplies running the 
monitoring equipment too - again so they don't get easily shut off.


Hope that helps.

Best,

Jeff

~~~
Jeff Clearwater
VillageLab
Village Power Design
linkedin 
www.villagelab.net 
www.visionarycommons.org 
www.villagepowerdesign.com 
skype - jclearwater
zoom by request
cell - 413-559-9763
~~~



drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org wrote on 2/28/20 11:35 AM:

Hello Wrenches,

It seems that inline fuse holders and glass fuses are becoming hard to 
find. What is a good way to protect 48 V DC control and 
instrumentation wires?


Thank you,

Drake




--
~~~
Jeff Clearwater
Village Power Design
linkedin 
www.villagepowerdesign.com 
cell - 413-559-9763
~~~
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Re: [RE-wrenches] 48 VDC Control fusing

[Starlight Solar Power Systems]

Hi Drake,

Perhaps this fuse holder will work if you want to stay with glass envelope: 
https://www.waytekwire.com/item/46069/Littelfuse-3031-0-In-Line-Fuse-Holder/

We mostly use panel mount breakers for small loads: 
https://www.alliedelec.com/circuit-protection/circuit-breakers/?category=2%7C2510416%2F2301910=In%20Stock%20Only=1%20Pole=50%20VDC%2C48%20VDC

3A example: 
https://www.alliedelec.com/product/te-connectivity/w58-xb1a4a-3/70199433/


Larry Crutcher
Starlight Solar Power Systems




On Feb 28, 2020, at 12:35 PM, drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org wrote:

Hello Wrenches,

It seems that inline fuse holders and glass fuses are becoming hard to find. 
What is a good way to protect 48 V DC control and instrumentation wires?

Thank you,

Drake





smime.p7s
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Re: [RE-wrenches] 48 VDC Control fusing

[Ray]

We still use inline fuses ordered online, but Midnite Solar carries a 
whole line of DC rated breakers that go down to 1 amp.


Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760

On 2/28/20 1:35 PM, Glenn Burt wrote:
I continue to find inline, terminal strips and glass fuses at my local 
automotive store.


-Glenn
Sent from my 'smart'phone, so please excuse typos and spelling errors.

-- Original message--
*From: *drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org 


*Date: *Fri, Feb 28, 2020 2:58 PM
*To: *RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org 
;

*Cc: *
*Subject:*[RE-wrenches] 48 VDC Control fusing

Hello
  Wrenches,

It seems that inline fuse holders and glass fuses are becoming hard to
find. What is a good way to protect 48 V DC control and instrumentation
wires?

Thank you,

Drake

--
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Offgrid Generators?

[Ray]

Some of the issues have been Generac not providing a simple wiring 
schematic, nor simply labeling the 2 start wires.  2nd is requiring 
either internet connection or a call in to get the start code.  Both 
have been very problematic in remote locations with no phone service.  
Totally unnecessary.  We don't need a Generac tech just to connect 
wires, I'm the licensed electrician.  Last time I called Generac, 
(control error not listed in the manual) they insisted I needed to call 
in a service tech, and offered zero trouble shooting.  I fixed the 
problem by pulling the fuse and resetting the controller.  3rd, service 
requires a long expensive trip by the service tech, who then diagnoses 
the problem, has to order the parts and return weeks later. This means 
every issue takes 2 round trips to resolve.  If its a bigger issue, it 
requires a truck lift to haul the 500 lb unit in to the shop. We're 
hearing $500 just to get the generator to the shop, then another $500 to 
reinstall it after.


Failures have included several catastrophic engine failures, blowing oil 
every where, some of these have been in the first few hundred hours. 
Lots of control issues, one recently had voltage that varied from 90 to 
130, 45 to 70 Hz, and the inverter wouldn't even connect to it.


I quit selling generators a long time ago, because I didn't want the 
service liability.  I'm not a mechanic, and I don't want to be.  I do 
however, need a generator I can recommend in good faith.  The Ecogen has 
made us look pretty bad.  Glad I didn't sell them, but then I've seen 
some large water cooled unit that worked well.


Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760

On 2/28/20 5:14 AM, Chris Mason wrote:

Ray,
I'm a Generac dealer. Why are you having support problems? Generac has 
a large dealer network, if the unit is under warranty you should have 
no problem getting it fixed. Did you buy through a dealer and have 
them install it? Why are the services expensive?


What failures are you seeing?

There is a hole in the market for products in this application. 
Virtually no-one makes an affordable ~10KW diesel enclosed 2 wire 
start 1,800 rpm reliable diesel generator. I once ordered, on spec, a 
9KW Perkins engine liquid cooled enclosed diesel from a factory in 
China I deal with. I sold it to a customer that ran it 18 hours a day 
on 100% load, to power his restaurant refrigeration outside service 
hours. It lasted him years, it must have thousands of hours on it.
I think the big problem in the US is getting permits for diesel 
generators.




On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 at 6:25 PM Ray > wrote:


I know we have covered this before, but I just continue to be
disappointed with the Generac Ecogen.  Very high failure rate, and
support is poor.  Service requires expensive on site service. Also
the
no load AC draw and programming setup is just not off grid ready at
all.  I'm still not seeing any other great choices, though. Here's
some
other possibilities:

1) Quality portable, like the Honda EU 7000i or Northstar with Honda
motor.  Not the best choice especially for autostart, no propane,
but at
least they can take it in to the shop if it goes down.

2) Kubota (or MQ) diesel. expensive, and possible cold weather
start issues?

3) 20+ kW water cooled, 1800 rpm propane model.  Overkill, expensive,
but probably will last a really long time.

4) Similar Home standby unit, but Kohler brand.  Kohler used to be
great, but now a days I'm not so sure.

I just can't keep recommending a generator I know has been giving
other
customers trouble.  Any new ideas on this age old problem?

-- 
Ray Walters

Remote Solar
303 505-8760

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--
Chris Mason
Solar systems designer
Generac Generators Industrial technician

Comet Systems Ltd DBA Comet Solar
Anguilla Cell  264.235.5670
WhatsApp 264.235.5670
Skype: netconcepts
www.cometsolar.com 

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Re: [RE-wrenches] 48 VDC Control fusing

[Glenn Burt]

I continue to find inline, terminal strips and glass fuses at my local 
automotive store. -GlennSent from my 'smart'phone, so please excuse typos and 
spelling errors.-- Original message--From: 
drake.chamberlin@redwoodalliance.orgDate: Fri, Feb 28, 2020 2:58 PMTo: 
RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org;Cc: Subject:[RE-wrenches] 48 VDC Control 
fusingHello Wrenches,

It seems that inline fuse holders and glass fuses are becoming hard to 
find. What is a good way to protect 48 V DC control and instrumentation 
wires?

Thank you,

Drake

-- 
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[RE-wrenches] 48 VDC Control fusing

[drake . chamberlin]

Hello Wrenches,

It seems that inline fuse holders and glass fuses are becoming hard to 
find. What is a good way to protect 48 V DC control and instrumentation 
wires?


Thank you,

Drake

--
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Offgrid Generators?

[Jay]

2 other small options are, marine generators and RV/truck APU generators. 

Jay
Peltz power. 

> On Feb 28, 2020, at 7:05 AM, Chris Mason  wrote:
> 
> 
> Generac also has a nice 15KW Diesel Protector unit, that'll keep the lights 
> on very nicely, is relatively inexpensive and I haven't heard any complaints 
> about them failing. We had one Protector Diesel with a failed fuel pump 
> solenoid but I changed it out under warranty and there hasn't been any other 
> issues.
> Of course they are not $4,000, you are not going to get a liquid cooled 
> generator for under $10,000.  
> 
>> On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 at 6:25 PM Ray  wrote:
>> I know we have covered this before, but I just continue to be 
>> disappointed with the Generac Ecogen.  Very high failure rate, and 
>> support is poor.  Service requires expensive on site service. Also the 
>> no load AC draw and programming setup is just not off grid ready at 
>> all.  I'm still not seeing any other great choices, though.  Here's some 
>> other possibilities:
>> 
>> 1) Quality portable, like the Honda EU 7000i or Northstar with Honda 
>> motor.  Not the best choice especially for autostart, no propane, but at 
>> least they can take it in to the shop if it goes down.
>> 
>> 2) Kubota (or MQ) diesel. expensive, and possible cold weather start issues?
>> 
>> 3) 20+ kW water cooled, 1800 rpm propane model.  Overkill, expensive, 
>> but probably will last a really long time.
>> 
>> 4) Similar Home standby unit, but Kohler brand.  Kohler used to be 
>> great, but now a days I'm not so sure.
>> 
>> I just can't keep recommending a generator I know has been giving other
>> customers trouble.  Any new ideas on this age old problem?
>> 
>> -- 
>> Ray Walters
>> Remote Solar
>> 303 505-8760
>> 
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>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Chris Mason
> Solar systems designer
> Generac Generators Industrial technician
> 
> Comet Systems Ltd DBA Comet Solar
> Anguilla Cell  264.235.5670
> WhatsApp 264.235.5670
> Skype: netconcepts
> www.cometsolar.com
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Offgrid Generators?

[Chris Mason]

Generac also has a nice 15KW Diesel Protector unit, that'll keep the lights
on very nicely, is relatively inexpensive and I haven't heard any
complaints about them failing. We had one Protector Diesel with a failed
fuel pump solenoid but I changed it out under warranty and there hasn't
been any other issues.
Of course they are not $4,000, you are not going to get a liquid cooled
generator for under $10,000.

On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 at 6:25 PM Ray  wrote:

> I know we have covered this before, but I just continue to be
> disappointed with the Generac Ecogen.  Very high failure rate, and
> support is poor.  Service requires expensive on site service. Also the
> no load AC draw and programming setup is just not off grid ready at
> all.  I'm still not seeing any other great choices, though.  Here's some
> other possibilities:
>
> 1) Quality portable, like the Honda EU 7000i or Northstar with Honda
> motor.  Not the best choice especially for autostart, no propane, but at
> least they can take it in to the shop if it goes down.
>
> 2) Kubota (or MQ) diesel. expensive, and possible cold weather start
> issues?
>
> 3) 20+ kW water cooled, 1800 rpm propane model.  Overkill, expensive,
> but probably will last a really long time.
>
> 4) Similar Home standby unit, but Kohler brand.  Kohler used to be
> great, but now a days I'm not so sure.
>
> I just can't keep recommending a generator I know has been giving other
> customers trouble.  Any new ideas on this age old problem?
>
> --
> Ray Walters
> Remote Solar
> 303 505-8760
>
> ___
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>

-- 
Chris Mason
Solar systems designer
Generac Generators Industrial technician

Comet Systems Ltd DBA Comet Solar
Anguilla Cell  264.235.5670
WhatsApp 264.235.5670
Skype: netconcepts
www.cometsolar.com 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Offgrid Generators?

[Chris Mason]

William,
Generac has a structure where box stores like HD and Lowes sell the
residential generators and arrange local certified dealers to perform the
installation, warranty and service work. The dealers are not real fond of
it but Generac can't get to be the largest brand relying on dealers for
sales. Generac is pretty good on compensating dealers for warranty work so
there are a number of dealers that make their living on installation,
servicing and warranty work.

On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 at 10:20 PM William Miller 
wrote:

> Ray, Wrenches:
>
> My experience with Generac is similar to yours.  Coincidentally, I just
> received an invite from our local Greentech to attend a Generac training.
> Apparently Greentech thinks they should sell generators.  This sounds like
> a
> bad fit for a supply house.
>
> When I politely declined the invitation, I mentioned that with any big
> ticket item, especially one with moving parts, I like to create a
> relationship with whoever will be servicing that item.  This starts with
> buying the unit from a reputable local shop.  If you subscribe to this
> theory,  the brand of generator you choose should have someone to service
> it
> within reasonable range.  This may narrow your choices.
>
> William
>
> PS:  The smallest generator I have purchased lately is a 12kw vertical
> crankshaft Kohler.  It gets minimum hours but seems to run OK.
>
> W
>
> Miller Solar
> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422
> 805-438-5600
> www.millersolar.com
> CA Lic. 773985
>
> -Original Message-
> From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On
> Behalf Of Ray
> Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2020 2:26 PM
> To: RE-wrenches
> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Offgrid Generators?
>
> I know we have covered this before, but I just continue to be
> disappointed with the Generac Ecogen.  Very high failure rate, and
> support is poor.  Service requires expensive on site service. Also the
> no load AC draw and programming setup is just not off grid ready at
> all.  I'm still not seeing any other great choices, though.  Here's some
> other possibilities:
>
> 1) Quality portable, like the Honda EU 7000i or Northstar with Honda
> motor.  Not the best choice especially for autostart, no propane, but at
> least they can take it in to the shop if it goes down.
>
> 2) Kubota (or MQ) diesel. expensive, and possible cold weather start
> issues?
>
> 3) 20+ kW water cooled, 1800 rpm propane model.  Overkill, expensive,
> but probably will last a really long time.
>
> 4) Similar Home standby unit, but Kohler brand.  Kohler used to be
> great, but now a days I'm not so sure.
>
> I just can't keep recommending a generator I know has been giving other
> customers trouble.  Any new ideas on this age old problem?
>
> --
> Ray Walters
> Remote Solar
> 303 505-8760
>
> ___
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>

-- 
Chris Mason
Solar systems designer
Generac Generators Industrial technician

Comet Systems Ltd DBA Comet Solar
Anguilla Cell  264.235.5670
WhatsApp 264.235.5670
Skype: netconcepts
www.cometsolar.com 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Offgrid Generators?

[Chris Mason]

Ray,
I'm a Generac dealer. Why are you having support problems? Generac has a
large dealer network, if the unit is under warranty you should have no
problem getting it fixed. Did you buy through a dealer and have them
install it? Why are the services expensive?

What failures are you seeing?

There is a hole in the market for products in this application. Virtually
no-one makes an affordable ~10KW diesel enclosed 2 wire start 1,800 rpm
reliable diesel generator. I once ordered, on spec, a 9KW Perkins engine
liquid cooled enclosed diesel from a factory in China I deal with. I sold
it to a customer that ran it 18 hours a day on 100% load, to power his
restaurant refrigeration outside service hours. It lasted him years, it
must have thousands of hours on it.
I think the big problem in the US is getting permits for diesel generators.



On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 at 6:25 PM Ray  wrote:

> I know we have covered this before, but I just continue to be
> disappointed with the Generac Ecogen.  Very high failure rate, and
> support is poor.  Service requires expensive on site service. Also the
> no load AC draw and programming setup is just not off grid ready at
> all.  I'm still not seeing any other great choices, though.  Here's some
> other possibilities:
>
> 1) Quality portable, like the Honda EU 7000i or Northstar with Honda
> motor.  Not the best choice especially for autostart, no propane, but at
> least they can take it in to the shop if it goes down.
>
> 2) Kubota (or MQ) diesel. expensive, and possible cold weather start
> issues?
>
> 3) 20+ kW water cooled, 1800 rpm propane model.  Overkill, expensive,
> but probably will last a really long time.
>
> 4) Similar Home standby unit, but Kohler brand.  Kohler used to be
> great, but now a days I'm not so sure.
>
> I just can't keep recommending a generator I know has been giving other
> customers trouble.  Any new ideas on this age old problem?
>
> --
> Ray Walters
> Remote Solar
> 303 505-8760
>
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
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-- 
Chris Mason
Solar systems designer
Generac Generators Industrial technician

Comet Systems Ltd DBA Comet Solar
Anguilla Cell  264.235.5670
WhatsApp 264.235.5670
Skype: netconcepts
www.cometsolar.com 
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