Re: [RE-wrenches] Magnum Frequency Shift

[Jay]

Hi Mark

Is this off grid or on?

Jay

> On Jun 12, 2020, at 7:09 PM, Mark Frye  wrote:
> 
> 
> I see. 
> 
> What you say about the frequency shift being slow makes me again doubt the 
> value of even using it in my application.
> 
> I have a controller that can regulate the AC dump load. That same controller 
> has a high limit switch which I could use to cut the AC feed to the GT 
> inverters. But then both functions are in the same device. On the other hand, 
> it is a very reliable device soperhaps sufficient.
> 
> On 6/12/2020 6:37 PM, Bradley Bassett wrote:
>> I have a relay on the XW+ Aux and also frequency shift which is usually 
>> slower, so the relay usually cuts out first. I also have a DC coupled array 
>> feeding the system. 
>> 
>> Brad
>> 
>> On Fri, Jun 12, 2020 at 4:34 PM Mark Frye  wrote:
>>> Yes an elite group within an elite group.
>>> 
>>> So the SB240 does not have frequency shift /wattage control. How are you 
>>> implementing charge control in stand alone mode?
>>> 
>>> On 6/12/2020 4:28 PM, Bradley Bassett wrote:
 Wow! Someone else with SMA SB240's, I have 12 of them that I've AC coupled 
 to an XW+5548. They are very solid performers. 
 
 Brad
 AEE Solar
 
 On Fri, Jun 12, 2020 at 3:39 PM Mark Frye  wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I have a small array of 8 - SMA SB240 microinverters on the roof. Peak 
> power out of the array has never exceeded 1800 W.
> 
> I am adding a Magnum MS-PAE 4448 with a 315 AH flooded Lead Calcium 
> battery bank.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> On 6/12/2020 12:31 PM, Chris Schaefer wrote:
> > G'Day Mark,
> >
> > Which grid tied inverter are you attempting to AC couple with. I 
> > apologize if you already called it out in the thread.
> >
> > Christopher
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Magnum Frequency Shift

[Bradley Bassett]

The slow response on the frequency shift is for the XW+ only, and mine is
an early model with no firmware updates since new. The XW Pro's main
difference from the XW+ besides UL1741-SA is a much faster processor. I've
heard that the frequency shift works quite well now, especially with
UL1741-SA grid tie inverters.

Brad

On Fri, Jun 12, 2020 at 7:09 PM Mark Frye  wrote:

> I see.
>
> What you say about the frequency shift being slow makes me again doubt the
> value of even using it in my application.
>
> I have a controller that can regulate the AC dump load. That same
> controller has a high limit switch which I could use to cut the AC feed to
> the GT inverters. But then both functions are in the same device. On the
> other hand, it is a very reliable device soperhaps sufficient.
> On 6/12/2020 6:37 PM, Bradley Bassett wrote:
>
> I have a relay on the XW+ Aux and also frequency shift which is usually
> slower, so the relay usually cuts out first. I also have a DC coupled array
> feeding the system.
>
> Brad
>
> On Fri, Jun 12, 2020 at 4:34 PM Mark Frye  wrote:
>
>> Yes an elite group within an elite group.
>>
>> So the SB240 does not have frequency shift /wattage control. How are you
>> implementing charge control in stand alone mode?
>> On 6/12/2020 4:28 PM, Bradley Bassett wrote:
>>
>> Wow! Someone else with SMA SB240's, I have 12 of them that I've AC
>> coupled to an XW+5548. They are very solid performers.
>>
>> Brad
>> AEE Solar
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 12, 2020 at 3:39 PM Mark Frye 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> I have a small array of 8 - SMA SB240 microinverters on the roof. Peak
>>> power out of the array has never exceeded 1800 W.
>>>
>>> I am adding a Magnum MS-PAE 4448 with a 315 AH flooded Lead Calcium
>>> battery bank.
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>>
>>> On 6/12/2020 12:31 PM, Chris Schaefer wrote:
>>> > G'Day Mark,
>>> >
>>> > Which grid tied inverter are you attempting to AC couple with. I
>>> > apologize if you already called it out in the thread.
>>> >
>>> > Christopher
>>> ___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Magnum Frequency Shift

[Mark Frye]

I see.

What you say about the frequency shift being slow makes me again doubt 
the value of even using it in my application.


I have a controller that can regulate the AC dump load. That same 
controller has a high limit switch which I could use to cut the AC feed 
to the GT inverters. But then both functions are in the same device. On 
the other hand, it is a very reliable device soperhaps sufficient.


On 6/12/2020 6:37 PM, Bradley Bassett wrote:
I have a relay on the XW+ Aux and also frequency shift which is 
usually slower, so the relay usually cuts out first. I also have a DC 
coupled array feeding the system.


Brad

On Fri, Jun 12, 2020 at 4:34 PM Mark Frye > wrote:


Yes an elite group within an elite group.

So the SB240 does not have frequency shift /wattage control. How
are you implementing charge control in stand alone mode?

On 6/12/2020 4:28 PM, Bradley Bassett wrote:

Wow! Someone else with SMA SB240's, I have 12 of them that I've
AC coupled to an XW+5548. They are very solid performers.

Brad
AEE Solar

On Fri, Jun 12, 2020 at 3:39 PM Mark Frye
mailto:ma...@berkeleysolar.com>> wrote:

Hello,

I have a small array of 8 - SMA SB240 microinverters on the
roof. Peak
power out of the array has never exceeded 1800 W.

I am adding a Magnum MS-PAE 4448 with a 315 AH flooded Lead
Calcium
battery bank.

Cheers

On 6/12/2020 12:31 PM, Chris Schaefer wrote:
> G'Day Mark,
>
> Which grid tied inverter are you attempting to AC couple
with. I
> apologize if you already called it out in the thread.
>
> Christopher
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Magnum Frequency Shift

[Bradley Bassett]

I have a relay on the XW+ Aux and also frequency shift which is usually
slower, so the relay usually cuts out first. I also have a DC coupled array
feeding the system.

Brad

On Fri, Jun 12, 2020 at 4:34 PM Mark Frye  wrote:

> Yes an elite group within an elite group.
>
> So the SB240 does not have frequency shift /wattage control. How are you
> implementing charge control in stand alone mode?
> On 6/12/2020 4:28 PM, Bradley Bassett wrote:
>
> Wow! Someone else with SMA SB240's, I have 12 of them that I've AC coupled
> to an XW+5548. They are very solid performers.
>
> Brad
> AEE Solar
>
> On Fri, Jun 12, 2020 at 3:39 PM Mark Frye  wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> I have a small array of 8 - SMA SB240 microinverters on the roof. Peak
>> power out of the array has never exceeded 1800 W.
>>
>> I am adding a Magnum MS-PAE 4448 with a 315 AH flooded Lead Calcium
>> battery bank.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> On 6/12/2020 12:31 PM, Chris Schaefer wrote:
>> > G'Day Mark,
>> >
>> > Which grid tied inverter are you attempting to AC couple with. I
>> > apologize if you already called it out in the thread.
>> >
>> > Christopher
>> ___
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
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>>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Magnum Frequency Shift

[Mark Frye]

Yes an elite group within an elite group.

So the SB240 does not have frequency shift /wattage control. How are you 
implementing charge control in stand alone mode?


On 6/12/2020 4:28 PM, Bradley Bassett wrote:
Wow! Someone else with SMA SB240's, I have 12 of them that I've AC 
coupled to an XW+5548. They are very solid performers.


Brad
AEE Solar

On Fri, Jun 12, 2020 at 3:39 PM Mark Frye > wrote:


Hello,

I have a small array of 8 - SMA SB240 microinverters on the roof.
Peak
power out of the array has never exceeded 1800 W.

I am adding a Magnum MS-PAE 4448 with a 315 AH flooded Lead Calcium
battery bank.

Cheers

On 6/12/2020 12:31 PM, Chris Schaefer wrote:
> G'Day Mark,
>
> Which grid tied inverter are you attempting to AC couple with. I
> apologize if you already called it out in the thread.
>
> Christopher
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Magnum Frequency Shift

[Bradley Bassett]

Wow! Someone else with SMA SB240's, I have 12 of them that I've AC coupled
to an XW+5548. They are very solid performers.

Brad
AEE Solar

On Fri, Jun 12, 2020 at 3:39 PM Mark Frye  wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I have a small array of 8 - SMA SB240 microinverters on the roof. Peak
> power out of the array has never exceeded 1800 W.
>
> I am adding a Magnum MS-PAE 4448 with a 315 AH flooded Lead Calcium
> battery bank.
>
> Cheers
>
> On 6/12/2020 12:31 PM, Chris Schaefer wrote:
> > G'Day Mark,
> >
> > Which grid tied inverter are you attempting to AC couple with. I
> > apologize if you already called it out in the thread.
> >
> > Christopher
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Magnum Frequency Shift

[Mark Frye]

Hello,

I have a small array of 8 - SMA SB240 microinverters on the roof. Peak 
power out of the array has never exceeded 1800 W.


I am adding a Magnum MS-PAE 4448 with a 315 AH flooded Lead Calcium 
battery bank.


Cheers

On 6/12/2020 12:31 PM, Chris Schaefer wrote:

G'Day Mark,

Which grid tied inverter are you attempting to AC couple with. I 
apologize if you already called it out in the thread.


Christopher

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Re: [RE-wrenches] White wire for DC- after ground fault breaker

[Jerry Shafer]

James, Wrenches
Traditionally we oy use black + and white - for a grounded PC system enen
with RSD, Systems that are not grounded are red + and black - which can be
confusing. White is associated with neutral and connected to earth, black
hot and red hot and we always use either USE-ll or PV wire, in metallic
conduit then stranded THWN-II wire of the same color.

On Fri, Jun 12, 2020, 2:02 PM James Jarvis  wrote:

> Hello Wrenches,
>
> I have an off-grid install where I was recently red-tagged by the state
> inspector. System is 24 volt with battery, Magnum inverters, some Magnum
> charge controllers, and a Morningstar charge controller. It is permitted
> under NEC 2017.
>
> One of the inspectors issues was that my DC- conductors to the array /
> rapid shut down box are black color. He wants them to be white because he
> says they are solidly grounded. I reason that they are only solidly
> grounded when they are solidly grounded. As soon as the ground fault
> protection breaker opens, they are floating at array voltage. I think it is
> misleading and unsafe to have a white conductor that can have hundreds of
> volts of potential on it when a breaker trips.
>
> I haven't dug into the code yet. I'm just working on the logic that one of
> my mentors put into me which is white wires better not have voltage
> potential on them. "That's the sort of sh*t that kills electricians" is
> what he repeatedly said ... and it's stuck with me.
>
> Thoughts? I'm backed into the corner with the state, so I will be changing
> them to white even if it is unsafe ... unless I have some code backing.
>
> Changing the wires to white will get interesting up on the roof. I
> wonder if they want me to cut off the black MC on the modules and replace
> them with white? This is mostly just an exercise in the State of Minnesota
> only wanting to know about and allow micro inverters. They brought in a
> state inspector from three hours away who kept repeating that he was a
> "highly qualified individual", but was unable to identify or recognize a
> charge controller. He kept referring to the charge controllers as
> inverters.
>
> Thanks,
>
> -James Jarvis
> APRS World, LLC
> +1-507-454-2727
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Re: [RE-wrenches] White wire for DC- after ground fault breaker

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar]

I take it he will not allow you to tape the wiring with white tape and
put a warning sign on the JB? You have to do what he wants but I feel your
pain. Good Luck! I would think a good electrician would measure first:) 


Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines
don't"
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ [1]
e-mail offgridso...@sti.net
[2]
text 209 813 0060

On Fri, 12 Jun 2020 15:17:19 -0500, James Jarvis 
wrote:  Hello Wrenches,   I have an off-grid install where I was recently
red-tagged by the state inspector. System is 24 volt with battery, Magnum
inverters, some Magnum charge controllers, and a Morningstar charge
controller. It is permitted under NEC 2017.   One of the inspectors issues
was that my DC- conductors to the array / rapid shut down box are black
color. He wants them to be white because he says they are solidly grounded.
I reason that they are only solidly grounded when they are solidly
grounded. As soon as the ground fault protection breaker opens, they are
floating at array voltage. I think it is misleading and unsafe to have a
white conductor that can have hundreds of volts of potential on it when a
breaker trips.   I haven't dug into the code yet. I'm just working on the
logic that one of my mentors put into me which is white wires better not
have voltage potential on them. "That's the sort of sh*t that kills
electricians" is what he repeatedly said ... and it's stuck with me.  
Thoughts? I'm backed into the corner with the state, so I will be changing
them to white even if it is unsafe ... unless I have some code backing.   
Changing the wires to white will get interesting up on the roof. I wonder
if they want me to cut off the black MC on the modules and replace them
with white? This is mostly just an exercise in the State of Minnesota only
wanting to know about and allow micro inverters. They brought in a state
inspector from three hours away who kept repeating that he was a "highly
qualified individual", but was unable to identify or recognize a charge
controller. He kept referring to the charge controllers as inverters.  
Thanks, 
-James Jarvis
APRS World, LLC
+1-507-454-2727
http://www.aprsworld.com/ [3] 

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar tracker

[scot.arey]

Sun Action Tracker. We have installed dozens.

42 x 72-cell modules

Call Pete Linscomb at 210-302-2141. Please do tell him I sent him to you.


Scot Arey
Solar CenTex



-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of Jay
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 12:11 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Solar tracker

Hi all

I have a client who’s pretty talented. 

He wants to build his own dual axis solar tracker, in the 8-12 module range. 

I’m asking if anyone know of plans or where to get designs. I’m not asking for 
anyone to give free consultation help. 

Thanks

Jay

Peltz power. 




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[RE-wrenches] White wire for DC- after ground fault breaker

[James Jarvis]

Hello Wrenches,

I have an off-grid install where I was recently red-tagged by the state
inspector. System is 24 volt with battery, Magnum inverters, some Magnum
charge controllers, and a Morningstar charge controller. It is permitted
under NEC 2017.

One of the inspectors issues was that my DC- conductors to the array /
rapid shut down box are black color. He wants them to be white because he
says they are solidly grounded. I reason that they are only solidly
grounded when they are solidly grounded. As soon as the ground fault
protection breaker opens, they are floating at array voltage. I think it is
misleading and unsafe to have a white conductor that can have hundreds of
volts of potential on it when a breaker trips.

I haven't dug into the code yet. I'm just working on the logic that one of
my mentors put into me which is white wires better not have voltage
potential on them. "That's the sort of sh*t that kills electricians" is
what he repeatedly said ... and it's stuck with me.

Thoughts? I'm backed into the corner with the state, so I will be changing
them to white even if it is unsafe ... unless I have some code backing.

Changing the wires to white will get interesting up on the roof. I
wonder if they want me to cut off the black MC on the modules and replace
them with white? This is mostly just an exercise in the State of Minnesota
only wanting to know about and allow micro inverters. They brought in a
state inspector from three hours away who kept repeating that he was a
"highly qualified individual", but was unable to identify or recognize a
charge controller. He kept referring to the charge controllers as
inverters.

Thanks,

-James Jarvis
APRS World, LLC
+1-507-454-2727
http://www.aprsworld.com/
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Magnum Frequency Shift

[Chris Schaefer]

G'Day Mark,

Which grid tied inverter are you attempting to AC couple with. I
apologize if you already called it out in the thread.

Christopher

On Fri, Jun 12, 2020 at 2:01 PM Jay  wrote:

> Hi Mark,
>
> Agreed that diversion is the way to go.
> As 4v above absorb volts is completely unworkable.
>
>  But I’m not sure that I agree about .5 hz will do anything. The new rule
> 21 inverters go off line at 64 hz. And there is a type of tapering based on
> hz shift, but it won’t shut off a new gt inverter at+ .5hz.
>
> Cheers
>
> Jay
>
>
>
> On Jun 12, 2020, at 10:08 AM, Mark Frye  wrote:
>
> 
>
> Thanks Jay,
>
> I talked again with Magnum.
>
> I have the latest Rev 6.1 MS-PAE 4448 so the exact implementation has
> changed from that described in AN002, 5/10. The current Rev. has changes
> designed to improve interaction with the GT inverters. I didn't really get
> to the bottom of that. But the critical aspect of this remains unchanged:
>
> - the Magnum will have shifted the frequency  by 0.5 Hz
>  when the DC voltage rises
> to Absorb + 4V.
>
> This makes more sense than the 6V I had in my notes (which may have meant
> 6V above Float.)
>
> With all this in mind, I think I will plan on using this feature as a
> backup to an AC dump load controller set to maintain Float voltage.
>
>
> On 6/12/2020 7:12 AM, Jay wrote:
>
> Hi Mark
>
> I found this which might be of help.
>
>
> https://www.magnum-dimensions.com/sites/default/files/MagArchive/AN-0002-AC-Coupling-Rev-5-10.pdf
>
> Jay
> Peltz power.
>
> On Jun 12, 2020, at 6:59 AM, Mark Frye 
>  wrote:
>
> Looking for confirmation from Wrenches who know Magnum inverters:
>
> - MS-PAE
>
> -ME-RC
>
> - Frequency shift enabled (battery type "Custom")
>
> - AC coupled PV inverters w/o frequency shift capability
>
> Function:
>
> At Absorb voltage frequency shift is zero, at Absorb voltage + 6 V, shift
> is 0.5 Hz  (in 0.3 volt increments)
>
> This is from my notes from a tech support call, but I am wondering if I
> have it mixed up. Protecting at 6 volts above the Absorb seems a bit high.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mark
>
>
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-- 

Chris Schaefer’s


*Tel/Fax 585-229-2083 or Cell 585-748-1870 *
*5115 South Hill Road ~ Canandaigua New York 14424**www.solarandwindfx.com
 ~ E-mail: ch...@solarandwindfx.com
*


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"democracy" will cease to exist when you take away from those who are
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[RE-wrenches] Solar tracker

[Jay]

Hi all

I have a client who’s pretty talented. 

He wants to build his own dual axis solar tracker, in the 8-12 module range. 

I’m asking if anyone know of plans or where to get designs. I’m not asking for 
anyone to give free consultation help. 

Thanks

Jay

Peltz power. 




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Re: [RE-wrenches] Magnum Frequency Shift

[Jay]

Hi Mark,  

Agreed that diversion is the way to go. 
As 4v above absorb volts is completely unworkable. 

 But I’m not sure that I agree about .5 hz will do anything. The new rule 21 
inverters go off line at 64 hz. And there is a type of tapering based on hz 
shift, but it won’t shut off a new gt inverter at+ .5hz. 

Cheers

Jay



> On Jun 12, 2020, at 10:08 AM, Mark Frye  wrote:
> 
> 
> Thanks Jay,
> 
> I talked again with Magnum.
> 
> I have the latest Rev 6.1 MS-PAE 4448 so the exact implementation has changed 
> from that described in AN002, 5/10. The current Rev. has changes designed to 
> improve interaction with the GT inverters. I didn't really get to the bottom 
> of that. But the critical aspect of this remains unchanged:
> 
> - the Magnum will have shifted the frequency  by 0.5 Hz  to knock the GT inverters off-line> when the DC voltage rises to Absorb + 4V.
> 
> This makes more sense than the 6V I had in my notes (which may have meant 6V 
> above Float.)
> 
> With all this in mind, I think I will plan on using this feature as a backup 
> to an AC dump load controller set to maintain Float voltage.
> 
> 
> 
>> On 6/12/2020 7:12 AM, Jay wrote:
>> Hi Mark
>> 
>> I found this which might be of help. 
>> 
>> https://www.magnum-dimensions.com/sites/default/files/MagArchive/AN-0002-AC-Coupling-Rev-5-10.pdf
>> 
>> Jay
>> Peltz power. 
>> 
>>> On Jun 12, 2020, at 6:59 AM, Mark Frye  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Looking for confirmation from Wrenches who know Magnum inverters:
>>> 
>>> - MS-PAE
>>> 
>>> -ME-RC
>>> 
>>> - Frequency shift enabled (battery type "Custom")
>>> 
>>> - AC coupled PV inverters w/o frequency shift capability
>>> 
>>> Function:
>>> 
>>> At Absorb voltage frequency shift is zero, at Absorb voltage + 6 V, shift 
>>> is 0.5 Hz  (in 0.3 volt increments)
>>> 
>>> This is from my notes from a tech support call, but I am wondering if I 
>>> have it mixed up. Protecting at 6 volts above the Absorb seems a bit high.
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> 
>>> Mark
>>> 
>>> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Magnum Frequency Shift

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar]

Also keep in mind that when AC coupling with legacy PV inverters without
frequency-Watt capability, the battery based inverter will have reduced
ability to regulate the battery charge. 

A modern GT inverter will give
you faster and more accurate charging. The older GT's, may not be good
enough for me, and certainly not my clients.  

Dave Angelini Offgrid
Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
[1]
e-mail offgridso...@sti.net [2]
text 209 813 0060

On Fri, 12 Jun 2020
10:08:28 -0700, Mark Frye  wrote:

Thanks Jay, 

I talked again with
Magnum. 

I have the latest Rev 6.1 MS-PAE 4448 so the exact implementation
has changed from that described in AN002, 5/10. The current Rev. has
changes designed to improve interaction with the GT inverters. I didn't
really get to the bottom of that. But the critical aspect of this remains
unchanged: 

- the Magnum will have shifted the frequency by 0.5 Hz when
the DC voltage rises to Absorb + 4V. 

This makes more sense than the 6V I
had in my notes (which may have meant 6V above Float.) 

With all this in
mind, I think I will plan on using this feature as a backup to an AC dump
load controller set to maintain Float voltage. 

  On 6/12/2020 7:12 AM,
Jay wrote:  Hi Mark   I found this which might be of help.   
https://www.magnum-dimensions.com/sites/default/files/MagArchive/AN-0002-AC-Coupling-Rev-5-10.pdf
[3]   Jay Peltz power.  
 On Jun 12, 2020, at 6:59 AM, Mark Frye  [4]
wrote:
Looking for confirmation from Wrenches who know Magnum
inverters:

 - MS-PAE

 -ME-RC

 - Frequency shift enabled (battery type
"Custom")

 - AC coupled PV inverters w/o frequency shift capability


Function:

 At Absorb voltage frequency shift is zero, at Absorb voltage +
6 V, shift is 0.5 Hz (in 0.3 volt increments)

 This is from my notes from
a tech support call, but I am wondering if I have it mixed up. Protecting
at 6 volts above the Absorb seems a bit high.

 Thanks,

 Mark


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Magnum Frequency Shift

[Mark Frye]

Thanks Jay,

I talked again with Magnum.

I have the latest Rev 6.1 MS-PAE 4448 so the exact implementation has 
changed from that described in AN002, 5/10. The current Rev. has changes 
designed to improve interaction with the GT inverters. I didn't really 
get to the bottom of that. But the critical aspect of this remains 
unchanged:


- the Magnum will have shifted the frequency  by 0.5 Hz 
 when the DC voltage 
rises to Absorb + 4V.


This makes more sense than the 6V I had in my notes (which may have 
meant 6V above Float.)


With all this in mind, I think I will plan on using this feature as a 
backup to an AC dump load controller set to maintain Float voltage.



On 6/12/2020 7:12 AM, Jay wrote:

Hi Mark

I found this which might be of help.

https://www.magnum-dimensions.com/sites/default/files/MagArchive/AN-0002-AC-Coupling-Rev-5-10.pdf

Jay
Peltz power.


On Jun 12, 2020, at 6:59 AM, Mark Frye  wrote:

Looking for confirmation from Wrenches who know Magnum inverters:

- MS-PAE

-ME-RC

- Frequency shift enabled (battery type "Custom")

- AC coupled PV inverters w/o frequency shift capability

Function:

At Absorb voltage frequency shift is zero, at Absorb voltage + 6 V, 
shift is 0.5 Hz  (in 0.3 volt increments)


This is from my notes from a tech support call, but I am wondering if 
I have it mixed up. Protecting at 6 volts above the Absorb seems a 
bit high.


Thanks,

Mark


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Re: [RE-wrenches] LI Batteries

[la...@starlightsolar.com]

Peter,

This may be of interest to anyone looking into cheap Li battery products. For 7 
years we have been dealing in Li batteries as a retailer, installer, 
distributor and importer. Not a single day goes by that I don’t receive 1 or 
more emails from a Li-ion battery company in China. I’m not exaggerating. All 
are requesting that we import and sell their brand of battery. Most of them 
claim to have been in business for many years, have hundreds of employees and a 
huge variety of battery models. 

I asked our battery manufacturer (LiFeBlue Battery) about the growing number of 
cheap battery offerings I receive daily; their explanation follows: In China 
over the last 10 years there have been many startup cell manufacturers. Most of 
these companies fail leaving literally tons of orphaned battery cell 
inventories. These batteries may sit for years in unknown climates. Right now 
there are battery cells being sold on eB….auction site that I know were 
manufactured 5 years ago!  

Battery cell lots are eventually bought up and packaged under a new company 
name. These are usually very small businesses with just a few employees but 
with a big web presence. In China many use advertising guile (lying) to promote 
their product. The products are offered at much lower than current wholesale 
prices. For example, I can buy a 100Ah, 12V LFP drop in battery with BMS for 
$260. 

My point to all is, buyer beware when considering cheap Li battery offerings. 
Nervous is good, Peter.

Larry Crutcher
Starlight Solar Power Systems






On Jun 11, 2020, at 1:16 PM,   
wrote:

Hello Fellow wrenchers. Has anyone purchased and used any batteries from 
Electric Car Parts out of Utah. They have a 48 volt, 5, 7.5 and 10 KW Lipo 
battery made by Energetech ( China ) . I have a customer that would like to use 
the product ( low cost ) but it is tough getting any actual info from the 
company i.e UL Certification paperwork or do the batteries have a BMS. If 
anyone has any experience with these folks please let me know. Just looking out 
for my customer and the lack of response and follow up from ECP is making me 
nervous. Thank you all in advance.
 
Thx
Peter Giroux
American Solar
Roswell Ga
678 525 0468
 

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Magnum Frequency Shift

[Jay]

Hi Mark

I found this which might be of help. 

https://www.magnum-dimensions.com/sites/default/files/MagArchive/AN-0002-AC-Coupling-Rev-5-10.pdf

Jay
Peltz power. 

> On Jun 12, 2020, at 6:59 AM, Mark Frye  wrote:
> 
> Looking for confirmation from Wrenches who know Magnum inverters:
> 
> - MS-PAE
> 
> -ME-RC
> 
> - Frequency shift enabled (battery type "Custom")
> 
> - AC coupled PV inverters w/o frequency shift capability
> 
> Function:
> 
> At Absorb voltage frequency shift is zero, at Absorb voltage + 6 V, shift is 
> 0.5 Hz  (in 0.3 volt increments)
> 
> This is from my notes from a tech support call, but I am wondering if I have 
> it mixed up. Protecting at 6 volts above the Absorb seems a bit high.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
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[RE-wrenches] Magnum Frequency Shift

[Mark Frye]

Looking for confirmation from Wrenches who know Magnum inverters:

- MS-PAE

-ME-RC

- Frequency shift enabled (battery type "Custom")

- AC coupled PV inverters w/o frequency shift capability

Function:

At Absorb voltage frequency shift is zero, at Absorb voltage + 6 V, 
shift is 0.5 Hz  (in 0.3 volt increments)


This is from my notes from a tech support call, but I am wondering if I 
have it mixed up. Protecting at 6 volts above the Absorb seems a bit high.


Thanks,

Mark


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Re: [RE-wrenches] LI Batteries

[Will White]

Zeke Yewdall who does a lot of off-grid installations and teaches at SEI
has worked with LI batteries from a supplier who works with electric cars
like this before so I reached out to him. I know he had a lot of problems
with the BMS because it wasn't designed for use with solar and the support
he got wasn't great. Here's his response:

"That isn't the one that I did not like.  It looks like yet another
prepackaged Chinese option, and the price is certainly attractive.
Usually, LFP is between 50 and 55 or 56 volts, not 46 to 58.4 like they
claim, so I suspect those are actually the voltages where the built-in BMS
shuts off the contactors.  But if you kept it to the middle range with your
solar equipment, then it would probably behave okay.   A lot of these BMS's
get grumpy if you exceed current, even for the inrush charging the inverter
capacitors, so that's something I've run into sometimes.  If it can't take
a second or two of inrush current, you may need to do a precharge circuit
which is a pain.  Some (ReLion) seem to not have an issue with inrush
though.   I've bought some small stuff from ECP before, and they were slow
and not super responsive, but eventually, I did get it...

Certainly, the type of thing that I'd use on my own system before I tried
to sell it to a customer...  I've learned over the years to do that with a
lot of stuff (and some stuff -- even from well-known manufacturers like
Schneider for example that I thought I didn't need to look out for, I've
regretted NOT doing that).

Also, with Chinese equipment, a lot of us suspect that the certification
means nothing -- they learn that it sells better if they print a
certification on it, but they don't necessarily actually do the tests and
all.   So. unless you can get the actual letter with the UL numbers, I
wouldn't necessarily put much faith in that. This is coming more from the
radio side of Chinese equipment, but I suspect it could apply to the solar
side as well."

Thanks,
Will


-- 
*Will White*
Curriculum Developer


e: w...@solarenergy.org
w: www.solarenergy.org
p: 802-272-3092

NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
# 093006-34
Do you envision a world powered by renewable energy? Be the change
.

On Thu, Jun 11, 2020 at 4:16 PM  wrote:

> Hello Fellow wrenchers. Has anyone purchased and used any batteries from
> Electric Car Parts out of Utah. They have a 48 volt, 5, 7.5 and 10 KW Lipo
> battery made by Energetech ( China ) . I have a customer that would like to
> use the product ( low cost ) but it is tough getting any actual info from
> the company i.e UL Certification paperwork or do the batteries have a BMS.
> If anyone has any experience with these folks please let me know. Just
> looking out for my customer and the lack of response and follow up from ECP
> is making me nervous. Thank you all in advance.
>
>
>
> Thx
> Peter Giroux
>
> American Solar
>
> Roswell Ga
>
> 678 525 0468
>
>
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>

-- 
*Will White*
Curriculum Developer


e: w...@solarenergy.org
w: www.solarenergy.org
p: 802-272-3092

NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
# 093006-34
Do you envision a world powered by renewable energy? Be the change
.
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