Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback FM100

[Lones Tuss]

Hello All



1.I want to avoid AFCI unless mandated.  Will this be defeated if I 
don’t run the leads through the sense coil? (There is an AFCI and non-AFCI 
version but I can’t seem to find the non-AFCI version anywhere.)

 *   Yes, you can bypass the AFCI by simply not running the PV conductors 
through the sensor coil



2.I noticed the manual indicates you are not supposed to mix the FM100 
with the FM80 or 60 in the same battery system.  This negates it for one 
project I had in mind.  I am curious as to why this is.  Anyone know?

 *   Here is a link to an App note that covers this situation
 *   
http://www.outbackpower.com/downloads/documents/appnotes/fm100_fm80_app_note.pdf
 *

3.Will the FM100 work with a standard hub?

 *   Yes, both HUB4 and HUB10.3, but firmware updates take almost an hour 
on the HUB4 because it’s slower.
 *

4.I suppose this unit requires a 125 amp breaker.  If the PV array 
cannot support that full 100 amps I might down-size the OCPD accordingly.  
Anyone contemplate this question?

 *   Depends on the application, but all of our prewired load centers and 
systems come with 125A breakers.




I hope this helps take care all.




From: William Miller 
Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2020 10:49 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: Outback FM100

Friends:

I have occasion to try the FM100 charge controller.  I am wondering of anyone 
had found any quirks with implementing this device.  I have a few specific 
questions:


  1.  I want to avoid AFCI unless mandated.  Will this be defeated if I don’t 
run the leads through the sense coil? (There is an AFCI and non-AFCI version 
but I can’t seem to find the non-AFCI version anywhere.)
  2.  I noticed the manual indicates you are not supposed to mix the FM100 with 
the FM80 or 60 in the same battery system.  This negates it for one project I 
had in mind.  I am curious as to why this is.  Anyone know?
  3.  Will the FM100 work with a standard hub?
  4.  I suppose this unit requires a 125 amp breaker.  If the PV array cannot 
support that full 100 amps I might down-size the OCPD accordingly.  Anyone 
contemplate this question?

Thanks in advance.
William


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Rapid Shutdown Compliance

[Lones Tuss]

Hello All
OutBack does offer a RSD solutions.
Please see the links below
http://www.outbackpower.com/products/safety-compliance/rapid-shutdown-kits
We also pair up with the FireRaptor RSD product
http://www.outbackpower.com/products/safety-compliance/fireraptor-rapid-shutdown

In addition the FM100 has onboard AFCI
http://www.outbackpower.com/products/charge-controllers/flexmax-100-afci

I hope this helps.
Take Care All




From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of 
Jerry Shafer
Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2020 11:34 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Rapid Shutdown Compliance

Wrenches
We are taking two very different issues and mixing them together. RSD and 
Arc-fault are different, arc fault will and does prevent fires, RSD was brought 
out of the need to vent a roof that even with the meter pulled have 500 volts 
and resulted shocks to fire fighters by cutting into roofs or nearby conduite. 
This is fact not conjecture.
Arc fault is a fire preventer but requires nothing on the roof when using 
string level inverters. Now both RSD and arc-fault in off grid increase the 
complexity but the new charge controllers fit the arc and Tigo fixes the RSD 
issues.
I know everyone of you learned to use a smart phone and can now adapt again to 
this new tech, we have to be leaders in this industry and not well you know.
Jerry
NABCEP PV Inspector.
Been in this industry since 1978

On Wed, Apr 29, 2020, 6:57 PM Jay 
mailto:jay.pe...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi Drake

I will disagree, there have been many roof top fires.

But regardless we have to do these new regulations and I for one welcome the 
safety.

The main issue is accessing the faulty/suspect component under the module 
possibly requiring removing multiple modules, a slow and expensive process.

My technique is to install the MLPE at the edges of the array, using wire 
extensions. That way at most I have to remove a single module.  And Im working 
on a drop bracket which would allow better cooling and easier access without 
module removal to the MLPE, greatly reducing time to swap.

Jay

Peltz Power.






On Apr 29, 2020, at 7:59 AM, 
drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org
 wrote:


Clearly, rapid shutdown increases cost and reduces reliability. Given the 
excellent safety record of PV, prior to rapid shutdown being required, it is 
unnecessary. The few anecdotal incidents of PV fires were not enough to justify 
the requirement, especially on smaller systems.

According to a friend who worked for a local installation company that went 
under, a big part of the reason for their failure was the chronic replacement 
of microinverters and optimizers.

What steps can be taken to create some balance in the rapid shutdown 
requirements that are in the NEC?


---




On 2020-04-29 07:27, Sky Sims wrote:
So far rapid shutdown has been a nightmare. It's added a lot of cost for no 
measurable benefit.
Using always off devices like midnight solar and Tigo makes it impossible to 
test open circuit voltages. Which opens the door to tons of problems when 
commissioning systems.
Also we've been trying out midnight Solar's product and have had an absurd 
failure rate. Which means lots of truck rolls and troubleshooting and system 
downtime. They send replacement product but they aren't paying for the lost 
weeks of productivity.
We have Tigo product in hand and are deciding which project to try it on. But 
our big concern about using it is not only the inability to confirm open 
circuit voltage of the strings but also the way panels bypass if the device 
doesn't allow the panel to connect properly. Both of these features are a 
recipe for problems and potential troubleshooting nightmares. The warranty from 
Tigo doesn't cover our expense if the product fails. And that's really what our 
reservations about the product boil down to right now. If we're on a job with 
50 units and one fails, the contractor or the homeowner will be the ones eating 
the expense of finding it and replacing it. There has to be a better option.

Sky Sims
Https://EcologicalSystems.biz


On Apr 28, 2020, at 7:46 PM, Corey Shalanski 
mailto:coreso...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Now that 690.12 of the NEC 2017 has been in effect for several years, I am 
curious how designers and installers are meeting the associated requirements 
with string inverter-based systems (*not* considering microinverters or DC 
optimizers). I am generally a fan of the KISS principle, and as best I can 
determine the Tigo TS4-F device is one of the simplest options currently 
available on the market. What are others finding?

I'd love to hear about favored options for complying with rapid shutdown. Any 
success stories? or better yet, any early failures?

--
Corey Shalanski
Jah Light Solar
Portland, Jamaica
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback EQ not holding voltage

[Lones Tuss]

Hi All
On OutBack inverters the EQ process is not temp comped.
The eq timer will not count down until the voltage set point is achieved.
You comment on the issue being somewhat intermittent is interesting.
Could there be a loose cable, bad crimp or corroded connection somewhere in the 
system?
Sorry but nothing jumps out at me.
Someone mentioned specific gravity.
Are the SG readings widely separated?


From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of Dave 
Tedeyan
Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2020 8:17 AM
To: offgridso...@sti.net; RE-wrenches 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback EQ not holding voltage

Brian,
I had tried lowering the EQ voltage by 0.4V. The batteries still get up to the 
EQ voltage, but then fluctuate right at or 0.1V below.

Dave,
The EQ countdown timer does not count down when the battery voltage is below 
the EQ setpoint (even if by 0.1V). And since the timer never gets to 0, the 
system just stays in EQ.

Also, we have found that the issue is somewhat intermittent. At one point 
Outback had me reset the CC and FNDC back to factory settings and reprogram 
them. It seemed that it helped, but then a month or two later it showed the 
same issue. So this does not happen with every EQ cycle, it just happens for 
most of them.

I also received another suggestion that the battery bank has a couple bad cells 
which will lead to higher temps and so with the temperature compensation the 
bank is just not getting to a high enough voltage.

Cheers,
Dave

Dave Tedeyan, PE
Senior Engineer | Taitem Engineering, PC
[https://www.taitem.com/signatures/logo.png]
110 South Albany Street | Ithaca, NY 14850
o. 607.277.1118 x121  f. 607.277.2119
www.taitem.com

Solar • Sustainability • Energy • Design
Certified B-Corporation since 2013


On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 11:08 AM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar 
mailto:offgridso...@sti.net>> wrote:

Does not sound right to me. Usually both Outback and Schneider protect against 
uncontrolled EQ time and end EQ.

I think I would remove the network after the battery is full and test one 
controller at a time. Might have been damaged by lightning or gen glitching. 
Since you say it does this from the inverter charger on genset (only no fm80's) 
is even weirder. Eliminate the network.

Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar

"we go where powerlines don't"

http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/

e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net

text 209 813 0060

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 07:00:21 -0700, Brian Mehalic 
mailto:br...@solarenergy.org>> wrote:
Sorry you had already answered the first two questions :) What about the others?
Brian


On Apr 28, 2020, at 6:50 AM, Dave Tedeyan 
mailto:dtede...@taitem.com>> wrote:
Hi All,

I've got an outback system (Radian 8048A, 2 FM80, 16 Trojan L16RE-B) where when 
the customer equalizes, the batteries hover right around the EQ voltage, but 
will often dip to 0.1v less. Because of this, the EQ timer does not count down 
properly, and so left to its own devices the system would equalize for way 
longer than it should, potentially forever. This will happen when doing an EQ 
from the solar on a bright sunny day, or the generator, or both. The customer 
can manually keep track of the time and manually stop the EQ after 3 hours, but 
that is not ideal. Has anyone dealt with this before and have any suggestions 
on how they fixed it?

This system is 3-4 years old, and the issue only started in the past year or so.

Cheers,
Dave

Dave Tedeyan, PE
Senior Engineer | Taitem Engineering, PC
[cid:image001.gif@01D61D59.20569B90]
110 South Albany Street | Ithaca, NY 14850
o. 607.277.1118 x121  f. 607.277.2119
www.taitem.com

Solar • Sustainability • Energy • Design
Certified B-Corporation since 2013
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Re: [RE-wrenches] magnum question

[Lones Tuss]

Hi Jay
The FXR inverters do have the ability to run 2 legs of a 3phase system on a 
single Mate3(s)and a Hub10.3
Inside the Hub10.3 is a header containing 5 jumpers. These jumpers can be 
arranged so the inverters are set to a 3 phase
configuration. 
Up to 9 inverters can be used per system, up to 3 inverters per ac phase. 
Up to 6 inverters can be used with up to 3 inverters per phase on 2 of the ac 
legs a 3phase system.
For more information on the jumper locations see the Hub 10.3 quick start guide.
http://www.outbackpower.com/downloads/documents/system_management/hub/hub103_quick_start.pdf

In a 3 phase system the inverters are programmed as Master, B phase Master, C 
Phase Master or designated as a Slave inverter.
Each Master can control 2 slave inverters.
This is further explained in the FXR installation manual.
http://www.outbackpower.com/downloads/documents/inverter_chargers/fxr_vfxr_a/fxr_install.pdf
 
I hope this helps.
Take Care All






 
-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of jay
Sent: Wednesday, April 1, 2020 4:39 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] magnum question

Hi All,

My question is can a single  Magnum remote run 2 inverters each as master for 
120v?


I’ve got a client with a 3 phase generator, and I need two phases, but I don’t 
need 240v.


1. I can’t change the generator
2. Two phases because I can’t load one phase that heavily.

I can do 2 Outback FXR’s each as a master,  but I’d need to have 2 Mate3S’s. 

But I don’t know if magnum has that possiblity?

Thanks

jay

Peltz Power



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Re: [RE-wrenches] Mate3 not saving data

[Lones Tuss]

Hi Dave
On the Mate
Hit Lock enter the Password (141)
Setting is highlighted press enter (the center button)
Scroll down to Mate3(s) enter
Scroll down to Data Logging
Using the wheel
Sd Card Data Logging Mode instead of disabled select [Excell]
The write interval is adjustable the default is 5 sec
I hope this helps.
Take Care Sir

From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of Dave 
Tedeyan
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2020 5:24 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Mate3 not saving data

Hi all,
I've inherited a system where the Mate3 is not saving data
to the SD card. Has anyone seen this before? In the Mate3
settings, it is set to download data to excel every minute and
save the last maximum days. I've tried two different SD cards.
I was able to successfully update firmware with the SD card.
But there are never any logfiles on there.

Any suggestions?
Thanks!
-Dave

Dave Tedeyan, PE
Senior Engineer | Taitem Engineering, PC
[https://www.taitem.com/signatures/logo.png]
110 South Albany Street | Ithaca, NY 14850
o. 607.277.1118 x121  f. 607.277.2119
www.taitem.com

Solar • Sustainability • Energy • Design
Certified B-Corporation since 2013
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Optics systems ghost reprogramming

[Lones Tuss]

Hello All
In regards to this situation.
As an installer if you wish to have access to an new customer or an existing 
Optics account.
The quickest and easiest method is to have the account owner invite you to view 
their system.
They can also grant you full access.
This can be accomplished by clicking on the Cog at the top right of an Optics 
Page
if you hover over the cog System Tool will appear

[cid:image001.png@01D5FDE8.3005E3B0]
Select System Tool
then under the System Tool banner select Profiles

[cid:image002.png@01D5FDE8.3005E3B0]

Towards the bottom of the Profiles page Select
+Add a Person

This is where you enter an email address and allow the desired access level.
Hit send
An email will be sent informing the invitee.
That person will need to have an optics account to see the new system.

So … in the case where  optics information is not available.
Perhaps the customer forgot the Optics name or for a myriad of other situations 
the optics site name is unknown.
Then email tech support 
supp...@outbackpower.com
 We will need proof that you own the system.
Have the Mate Mac address available and have a copy of a receipt or a driver 
license showing the same address as the site address.
Something that proves ownership of the system.
We can then delete the account and a new profile can be created.
I hope this helps.
Take Care


From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of John 
Blittersdorf
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2020 8:17 AM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Optics systems ghost reprogramming

Jay,
My guess would be that the profile and site previously set up would have to 
be deleted and set up again.  Without your customers info, you would not be 
able to delete it yourself.  Outback tech support has access to all the 
profiles and sites and would be able to find the site with some info.  
Typically when I have worked with them about an Optics issue, they ask for 
profile or site name. Without that, I’m not sure if MAC address would work for 
them to locate it.  Maybe the customer’s email address they might have used.  
Possibly address of installation.

I have had tech support move a site from one profile to another when I swapped 
out a potentially defective Mate3s only to find out that the Mate3s was not the 
problem.  I had set it up for monitoring so I left it there and took his old 
one (which was almost new) and put it in another customers site to get them 
back on line after a severe lightning strike.  The data of course was showing 
up under the first customers profile.  Tech support was able to move it as a 
new system under the correct customers file.  Optics still shows the old site 
as off line with all data intact.

John Blittersdorf

On Wed, Mar 18, 2020 at 10:34 PM Jay 
mailto:jay.pe...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi john,

To Chris’s question. What if (all to common) the customer doesn’t have any of 
that data?  How do you reset it?

Jay


On Mar 18, 2020, at 9:01 AM, John Blittersdorf 
mailto:john.blittersd...@gmail.com>> wrote:


Chris,
If the customer has the username and password, they can log in and add your 
email address as a new user.   I find that on all the profiles I’m monitoring, 
there are inconsistencies in finding the screen to add authorized users.  It 
may be because some profiles were initiated by me (preferred method) and I 
added the customer with full control or limited control or the others were 
initiated by the customer with me added with full control and as administrator 
or not.  Tech support should be able to fix it if you are prepared to do other 
desk work while waiting for a half hour or more in the Queue.

John Blittersdorf

On Tue, Mar 17, 2020 at 6:41 PM Chris Schaefer 
mailto:ch...@solarandwindfx.com>> wrote:
To all,

Lately it seems that I'm taking over more and more off grid projects that have 
become orphaned by the many possers in our off grid world. Believe me when I 
say I'm happy to do it. In regards to Optics I've created my own account so 
that I can view all my clients. The problem I'm running into is that when I try 
to create a new profile by entering the clients Mate3 MAC address I find that 
the address is already registered. The clients don't know anything and the 
installers have disappeared. In some cases the clients do have a login and 
password. So my question to you is what is the work around here? Is there a way 
to locally clear the info at the Mate3 or is this something that has to be done 
at OB HQ? If so, what kind of documentation would be required from the client 
to provide to OB to allow someone else to "take over" administrative rights of 
the system? I did reach out to OB on the issue but have received no response as 
of yet. I will say, when it works it is awesome.

Christopher

On Tue, Mar 17, 2020 at 9:50 AM Tump mailto:t...@swnl.net>> 
wrote:
Please be aware that the files that are stored in the Mates are not able to be 
overwritten, and this leads to corrupted data among 

Re: [RE-wrenches] Optics systems ghost reprogramming

[Lones Tuss]

There are 2 concerns voiced below I will address each.

1 As to the location of OutBack

We are pleased to inform you that OutBack Power is moving our headquarters from 
Arlington, WA to Phoenix, AZ. This move, to be completed by July 1, 2020, will 
bring us physically closer to the majority of our domestic customers. 
Additionally, Phoenix Sky Harbor Airport also allows us easier access to our 
customers around the globe. Our new Phoenix location will also help us recruit 
top talent to our already impressive team and in designing and testing new 
renewable energy products such as our lithium-ion battery which we displayed at 
Intersolar North America in February and expect to be available in Fall 2020. 
In addition to our headquarters, already located in our Phoenix office are our 
customer training center, technical support personnel, and our warranty service 
center.


2 Concerning corrupted files on the Mate 3(s)

To clear the internal data logs on the Mate3 or the Mate3S
Press Lock enter the password of 141
Setting  Enter
System Enter
Under System Configuration
Scroll down to
Clear Internal Data Log
Enter (Press Center Button)
Press Yes
This will clear the internal data logs.
This does not effect the CSV files or any information being sent to the SD card.
It will clear out the Graph files as displayed on the Mate by the charge 
controllers, the FNDC and the inverters.
I hope this helps.
Take Care All


From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of Tump
Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2020 6:52 AM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Optics systems ghost reprogramming

Please be aware that the files that are stored in the Mates are not able to be 
overwritten, and this leads to corrupted data among other mystery issues. 
Contact Kris Stone, a former OB employee, he has the ability to erase the old 
files. I no longer travel w/o updated M3s and the firmware to up date. IF I 
have an issue, I will copy settings in the older Mate and leave my new one in 
place until I get it addressed by Kris.
FYI OB just closed down 1 their offices and moved (those who still had jobs) to 
I believe Bellingham. Lonus?
Kris Stone, 425-233-0731 stkri...@yahoo.com
On Mar 16, 2020, at 6:37 PM, Dan Fink 
mailto:danbo...@gmail.com>> wrote:

William, Michael; I have never seen spontaneous reprogramming of the AGS, but 
it sure does give me something to watch out for on the Optics systems I've 
installed, thanks for that!

What I did see (last month) was an Optics system (no AGS) shut down the web 
gateway, saying the firmware in the charge controllers (old MX60s) and the 
Flexnet DC need to be updated, but all are too old, the firmware can't be 
updated as far as I know. It also lost the Port #s for the 2 MX60s and FlexNet 
DC and needs them re-entered.

Oddly, the battery SOC is the only data showing in the Optics Portal, but it's 
saying 67% SOC, which (I hope!) is incorrect, as the site has had full sun, 
hardly a cloud in the sky, for over 3 days now, and the system is designed to 
charge from 50% SOC to full on one sunny day.

The Mate 3S firmware isn't flagged for an update, but there is a newer version 
out. I plan to update the Mate 3S, re-enter the Port assignments and hope that 
fixes the problem. Because the system is 200 miles away and I have no way now 
of knowing if it's even charging right now.

Will be watching this thread closely!.

Dan Fink
Executive Director, Buckville Energy Consulting
NABCEP PV Associate
NABCEP Certified PV System Inspector
IREC Certified Instructor™ for:
~ PV Installation Professional
~ Small Wind Installer
NABCEP Registered Continuing Education Providers
danbo...@gmail.com
970-672-4342




On Mon, Mar 16, 2020 at 1:48 PM William Miller 
mailto:will...@millersolar.com>> wrote:
Colleagues:

Over time we have seen our Outback Optics systems reprogramming themselves.  
The latest manifestation is seeing the AGS change from Auto to Off.  I would 
suggest if you have Optics systems you might log in and check this.  Damage can 
be done to batteries and your credibility if a generator auto-start is expected 
and does not occur.

I would be interested in hearing if any of you have experienced any “ghost” 
reprogramming of any Outback systems.

Thanks,

William Miller

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback VFX upgrade question

[Lones Tuss]

Hello All
I will try to answer the original question then address the added concerns.

Question
Can I use an original Mate (rather than a Mate3) to set up basic programming 
with a R series inverter, such as charger and LBCO settings?

No the FXRs require a Mate3(s) for programming.

Question
Can A hub 4 be used with an FXR inverter?

It depends, you can use a single FXR  or paralleled  inverters (120) with a HUB 
4
but you cannot Series Stack (120/240) or 3phase stack (120/208) with a Hub 4

Question
my suggestion here for others too. Outback still makes and sells the 3 circuit 
boards for the FX series of inverters (i just bought a spare set for our 
GVFX3648 for ~$800.00).

Yes all three PCBs are available for the FX inverters.
But the transformers are dedicated to the dc voltage and are not 
interchangeable between the 12, 24, and 48 volt inverters.  The turn ratios are 
different.

Below is a link to several whitepapers located on the OutBack Website 
concerning various battery chemistries .
http://www.outbackpower.com/resources/documents/app-notes

I hope this helps



From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of John 
Blittersdorf
Sent: Monday, March 9, 2020 9:10 AM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback VFX upgrade question

Todd,
  So is it that the control board and FET board are voltage specific, 
control board also grid tie or off grid specific, AC board common to all and 
Transformer common to all?  I was unsure about the transformer as I have found 
most that I see with some indication of voltage written on the transformer.  
Probably notes to the reassembler?  It makes sense that all 120vac inverters 
would have the same transformer.  This is a good thread to clear up how simple 
it is to mix And match at your pleasure to make what you need from the retired 
FX Series inverters.  I’ve been buying new boards Fron Zonna. Are there other 
sources?


On Mon, Mar 9, 2020 at 11:28 AM 
mailto:toddc...@finestplanet.com>> wrote:

I wrote to Allan off list, but will mention my suggestion here for others too. 
Outback still makes and sells the 3 circuit boards for the FX series of 
inverters (i just bought a spare set for our GVFX3648 for ~$800.00).

Changing 2 of the 3 cards would make this into a 48 volt inverter. The same 
mate would work with this and as well as the mounts and wiring. only the 
batteries would need changing to 48 volts. The cost would be around $500.00.



Todd






On Monday, March 9, 2020 4:23am, "John Blittersdorf" 
mailto:john.blittersd...@gmail.com>> said:
Alan,
  It appears to me that everyone miss read your question.  If your customer 
does not need a generator, then his solar charge controller needs to be able to 
be set up for the lithium battery voltage settings.  So the inverter simply 
needs to be 48 volts and has nothing to do with charging battery.  You could 
use any 48 volt inverter and use the MATE. The inverter would only provide LBCO 
to protect the battery.  As far as a used VFX 3648 contact me off list.
John Blittersdorf

On Sat, Mar 7, 2020 at 8:20 PM Sindelar Solar 
mailto:al...@sindelarsolar.com>> wrote:

Wrenches,

I have a client who is looking at upgrading an older off grid system that has 
an Outback VFX3524 inverter to 48Vnom in order to use a Blue Ion LiFePo 
battery. I installed the VFX about ten years ago and it has worked without any 
issues. The client has never had a generator and has enough array to equalize 
his FLA batteries with array only, so has never had or needed a Mate. If I 
upgrade to 48V with a new inverter, it will most likely be an FXR3048. First 
question: Can I use an original Mate (rather than a Mate3) to set up basic 
programming with a R series inverter, such as charger and LBCO settings? 
Second: anyone have an older FX3048 or VFX3648 for sale, if the answer to the 
first question is no?

Thank you,

Allan
--
Allan Sindelar
al...@sindelarsolar.com
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
505 780-2738 cell

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Module-Level Shutdown for off grid systems

[Lones Tuss]

Hello all.
Here is some information regarding Module Level Shutdown and OutBack

http://www.outbackpower.com/products-mobile/safety-compliance/item/imo-fireraptor
Tech info: 
http://www.outbackpower.com/resources/documents/product-documentation/item/imo-fireraptor-technical-documentation


  *   UL listed with the FM100 and SkyBox
  *   Available through all Outback distributors
  *   Manual Panel Shutdown to 0V Operated from Ground Level
  *   Automatic Panel Shutdown to 0V at >85°C (185°F) Temperature
  *   Automatic Panel Shutdown to 0V on External Power Loss
  *   Hardwire or Mobile Communication Alarm Signalling
  *   Compliant with NEC 2014 & NEC 2017
  *   Suitable for New Installations or Retro-Fit


From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of 
Lorenzo Ortiz
Sent: Friday, September 27, 2019 10:23 AM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Module-Level Shutdown for off grid systems

** [EXTERNAL EMAIL] - Please report any suspicious attachments, links, or 
requests for sensitive information to the Help Desk. **

Wrenches,

Are any of you looking ahead at solutions for module level rapid shutdown for 
off grid? Here in CA it's being implemented next year (at least in my area) and 
I haven't found any reliable, proven, cost-effective products yet.
I know Tigo has some sort of inline component but haven't heard a lot about it.

Any input is appreciated.

Thanks

--
  
[https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download=1SNW41qVSpfo_yQlKW9a9netwEMmohllF=0B6l5VcsZgAv3TlU5UTJwVXFHMXlpR05jOE9ndlhoK3BwejA0PQ]
Loren Ortiz
Technical PV Design Specialist - Commercial/Residential/Off-Grid

lo...@cal-solar.com 
californiasolarco.com


Main: 530-274-3671 ext: 311 Fax: 530-274-7518





[https://californiasolarco.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Email-Sig-Logo3.png]
Showroom located at: 149 E Main St. Grass Valley, CA 95945
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Radian AC inputs

[Lones Tuss]

Hi William
Sorry for the delay in getting back to you.
Good catch on the observations in the Radian Quick Start Guide.

Link to Quick Start Guide
http://www.outbackpower.com/downloads/documents/inverter_chargers/radian_8048a_4048a/gs_8048a_4048a_quick_start.pdf
Link to the Radian Installation manual
http://www.outbackpower.com/downloads/documents/inverter_chargers/radian_8048a_4048a/gs_8048a_4048a_install.pdf


The QST statement

Only one AC source can be wired at a time;  use an external selector switch if 
more than one source is available.”

Is incorrect.
All Radian Inverters have 2 ac inputs, an external selector switch is 
unnecessary. That almost has to come from the FX inverters.
I have notified the Technical Manual Writer and he will change that .
Thank you

On the other observations I will have to split hairs.
The easiest first.
In the Quick start Guide
We do recommend #6 AWG THHN copper wire
under the heading
AC Wire Sizes and Torque Values


In the Quick Start Guide
Under
AC Wiring Notes
It is stated:
The Transfer Relay is rated 60 Aac….
Then recommends   up to a maximum 60 amp breaker.
This is not a false statement.

In the Radian Installation Manual
On Page 38 it is stated:
All overcurrent  devices in Permanent Installations must be sized for 50 Aac or 
less.

So perhaps a little history
The relay is the same ac input relay that was used on the Trace SW inverter, 
and on the Xantrex  SW and SW + Inverters.
It is rated at 60 amp pass through. In the GS installation manual we state a 50 
Amp breaker because that is what we use in the GS load centers.
Throughout OutBack’s history the ac breaker size has changed between 50 and 60 
amps.
The relay itself has not changed.
I happen to like the 50 amp breaker as it should trip before the relays get 
stressed.

I hope this helps.
Take Care All









From: William Miller 
Sent: Tuesday, August 6, 2019 6:51 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Cc: Lones Tuss 
Subject: Radian AC inputs

** [EXTERNAL EMAIL] - Please report any suspicious attachments, links, or 
requests for sensitive information to the Help Desk. **

Friends:

I was wiling away the time perusing a Radian (GS4048/GS8048) quick-start guide 
that came with a recently acquired set of Radians.  I was quite surprised to 
see the AC inputs, outputs and throughputs are shown in the quick-start guide 
as rated at 60 Amp AC. The guide also indicates a minimum wire size of #6AWG 
(does not specify CU or AL, will assume CU).

I always remembered that rating to be 50 Amps AC.  I checked old and new 
installation manuals and they all say 50 Amps AC.  Am I missing something?

The guide also says:  “Only one AC source can be wired at a time;  use an 
external selector switch if more than one source is available.”  It really 
sounds like this section was cut and pasted from an FX/FXR manual by mistake.  
Anyone catch this?  Lones, you out there?

William


Miller Solar
17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422
805-438-5600
www.millersolar.com<http://www.millersolar.com/>
CA Lic. 773985

Quote of the month:  “As they age, batteries transition from energy
storage devices to energy consuming devices.“ W. Miller

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Pass-through state Dual FXR system

[Lones Tuss]

Hi Mac
Thanks for the full site name I found it.
Here is the problem.
The Absorb and the Float timers are at Zero.
Setting a charge timer to Zero negates that charge stage.
So Float timer at zero no Float cycle
Absorb timer at Zero no Absorb cycle
This was first done in the Radian then passed on to the FXR.
This was done to allow a single stage of charging. The idea was some battery 
types require a single voltage for charging.  The batteries BMS handles all the 
requirements of the batteries.
The timers can be set as low as 1 (6 minutes) or 24 hours.
If a continuous charge is needed set the Absorb timer to Zero and the Float 
timer to 24/7.
The voltage thing is discussed in the Manual below on page 31
http://www.outbackpower.com/downloads/documents/inverter_chargers/fxr_vfxr_a/fxr_operator.pdf

I hope this helps.
Thank you for using OutBack
Take Care Sir


From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of Mac 
Lewis
Sent: Saturday, August 3, 2019 2:35 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Pass-through state Dual FXR system

** [EXTERNAL EMAIL] - Please report any suspicious attachments, links, or 
requests for sensitive information to the Help Desk. **

Hi Wrenches,

I've got an issue that I'm remotely trying to troubleshoot but I must be 
missing something.
Specs:
Off-grid
Dual Outback FXR 3648s recently installed
FM100, with about 4k of solar
2 x 16 kWh Blue Ion Batteries, installed this past week
Kohler 14 generator
Outback Mate 3s

The issue is that the FXR inverters aren't charging the batteries when the 
generator is running, they are just passing the power through to the loads.  I 
have verified that AC Input is in "Use" not "Drop" when generator is running, I 
have disabled all of the advanced charging (ie Global charge, float 
coordination, auto-charge termination and auto grid-tie control) .  I have told 
it to "start bulk" both remotely and through the owner on site.  I have done a 
reboot multiple times of the whole system as well as the Mate 3s.  I even had 
the owner try a factory reset and firmware update on the Mate 3s.  The firmware 
was successfully updated and it appears the factory reset on the mate.

Nothing has changed how it behaves with the generator, generator just follows 
the load and no AC charging takes place.  Oddly, this was working fine when we 
left, we had topped the batteries off with the generator.

Any ideas what I might be missing?

Thanks for your suggestions
--



Mac Lewis

"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Pass-through state Dual FXR system

[Lones Tuss]

Hi Mac
If you want to contact me off line.
I could give it a look.
Shoot me your phone number
Lones

From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of Mac 
Lewis
Sent: Saturday, August 3, 2019 2:35 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Pass-through state Dual FXR system

** [EXTERNAL EMAIL] - Please report any suspicious attachments, links, or 
requests for sensitive information to the Help Desk. **

Hi Wrenches,

I've got an issue that I'm remotely trying to troubleshoot but I must be 
missing something.
Specs:
Off-grid
Dual Outback FXR 3648s recently installed
FM100, with about 4k of solar
2 x 16 kWh Blue Ion Batteries, installed this past week
Kohler 14 generator
Outback Mate 3s

The issue is that the FXR inverters aren't charging the batteries when the 
generator is running, they are just passing the power through to the loads.  I 
have verified that AC Input is in "Use" not "Drop" when generator is running, I 
have disabled all of the advanced charging (ie Global charge, float 
coordination, auto-charge termination and auto grid-tie control) .  I have told 
it to "start bulk" both remotely and through the owner on site.  I have done a 
reboot multiple times of the whole system as well as the Mate 3s.  I even had 
the owner try a factory reset and firmware update on the Mate 3s.  The firmware 
was successfully updated and it appears the factory reset on the mate.

Nothing has changed how it behaves with the generator, generator just follows 
the load and no AC charging takes place.  Oddly, this was working fine when we 
left, we had topped the batteries off with the generator.

Any ideas what I might be missing?

Thanks for your suggestions
--



Mac Lewis

"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates
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Re: [RE-wrenches] AC/DC coupling on conext

[Lones Tuss]

Hello Drake
This is from the App note
OutBack’s Frequency Shift AC Coupling is only employed in the Radian GS(A) 
class inverter at this time. It requires a firmware upgrade on both the Radian 
inverter and MATE3s system display and controller. The firmware is only 
available by download on the OutBack Power website.

The GS-AC-GEN –KIT is available from Distributors.
It contains the needed breakers and relays the app note shows the wiring.
Take Care Sir

From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of 
drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org
Sent: Monday, June 24, 2019 2:57 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] AC/DC coupling on conext

Hi Lones,

Can the frequency shift be retrofitted to an earlier radian, four + years old? 
The unit now has the obsolete, remote operated circuit breaker (ROCB) that I'm 
a bit concerned about.

Thanks,

Drake


- Original Message -
From:
"RE-wrenches" 
mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>>

To:
"RE-wrenches" 
mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>>
Cc:

Sent:
Mon, 24 Jun 2019 19:32:22 +
Subject:
Re: [RE-wrenches] AC/DC coupling on conext

Hi Andrew
OutBack now has AC Coupling for the Radian using frequency shift.
Below is a link to the Ac Coupling/ Frequency Shift App Note located on the 
OutBack website.
http://www.outbackpower.com/downloads/documents/appnotes/acc_freq_app_note.pdf
You also state the client wants to “get solar” in a situation where the grid 
cannot accept incoming solar.
The radian has several modes which utilizes solar and will prevent sell back. 
This might be an option to consider.
Take Care Sir


From: RE-wrenches 
mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org>>
 On Behalf Of Andrew
Sent: Monday, June 24, 2019 11:18 AM
To: RE-wrenches 
mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>>
Subject: [RE-wrenches] AC/DC coupling on conext


** [EXTERNAL EMAIL] - Please report any suspicious attachments, links, or 
requests for sensitive information to the Help Desk. **
Wrenches,
I got a situation where I got a client who wants to get solar 
with battery backup but where he is located the grid cannot currently accept 
incoming solar, but we can buy from them. I was thinking about doing an conext 
xw system and then solaredge ac coupling for module level shutdown but I don’t 
know how well that would be on the conext side of things for charging some 
discover lithium ion batteries? I would rather do standard DC coupled system 
but not familiar with any of those 3rd party rapid shutdown devices(fire raptor 
and midnite?), has anyone used any before?


Andrew Perkins
Greenwired
P: 707-923-2001 ext. 100
1150 #1 Evergreen Rd
Redway, CA 95560
www.greenwired.com


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Re: [RE-wrenches] AC/DC coupling on conext

[Lones Tuss]

Hi Andrew
OutBack now has AC Coupling for the Radian using frequency shift.
Below is a link to the Ac Coupling/ Frequency Shift App Note located on the 
OutBack website.
http://www.outbackpower.com/downloads/documents/appnotes/acc_freq_app_note.pdf
You also state the client wants to "get solar" in a situation where the grid 
cannot accept incoming solar.
The radian has several modes which utilizes solar and will prevent sell back. 
This might be an option to consider.
Take Care Sir

From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of 
Andrew
Sent: Monday, June 24, 2019 11:18 AM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] AC/DC coupling on conext

** [EXTERNAL EMAIL] - Please report any suspicious attachments, links, or 
requests for sensitive information to the Help Desk. **

Wrenches,
I got a situation where I got a client who wants to get solar 
with battery backup but where he is located the grid cannot currently accept 
incoming solar, but we can buy from them. I was thinking about doing an conext 
xw system and then solaredge ac coupling for module level shutdown but I don't 
know how well that would be on the conext side of things for charging some 
discover lithium ion batteries? I would rather do standard DC coupled system 
but not familiar with any of those 3rd party rapid shutdown devices(fire raptor 
and midnite?), has anyone used any before?

Andrew Perkins
Greenwired
P: 707-923-2001 ext. 100
1150 #1 Evergreen Rd
Redway, CA 95560
www.greenwired.com
[Description: signature]

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback VFX 3648 tech support and parts

[Lones Tuss]

Hi Greg
Yes boards are available for the VFX3648. I would suggest calling into OutBack 
Tech support. To get those repaired or replacement PCB’s sent to you.
Below is a link to the OutBack Website.
Technical support contact information is there.
http://www.outbackpower.com/about-outback/contact/contact-us

Thanks and Take Care



From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of Greg
Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2019 10:46 AM
To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outback VFX 3648 tech support and parts

** [EXTERNAL EMAIL] - Please report any suspicious attachments, links, or 
requests for sensitive information to the Help Desk. **

Friends,
I have a customer who's ready to upgrade to a larger system.  He has 6 - 
VFX3648 inverters that are 10 years old.  They're only used in the summer 
months but still going strong.  He needs to increase his system size to about 
28kW.
My understanding is that Outback no longer supports the old VFX inverters.  I'm 
wondering if anyone knows if we can still get parts?

I did see an email from Tump that mentioned someone who repairs boards but I 
was wondering if I could get boards, maybe I could just install them in any 
outback inverter and make it into a VFX 3648 (if it had the vent /fan mount in 
it).

Next I'm wondering if the MATE ever died if I could either get a replacement 
MATE or if a MATE 3 would be compatible?  Same question for the HUB10?

The VFXs are certainly proven technology.  Hate to replace them if I don't have 
to.
Thanks again,

Greg Egan
Remote Power Inc.
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Re: [RE-wrenches] High altitude off-grid systems

[Lones Tuss]

Hello All
Outback’s Product Warranty is not based or negated by the altitude of the 
installation.  Altitude ratings ensure full spec operation of the equipment up 
to the stated elevation . As noted in several posts due to thinner air cooling 
of equipment can be affected. Additional cooling may be required and or 
additional products to achieve the necessary load requirements.


From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of 
jerrysgarage01
Sent: Friday, April 12, 2019 11:26 AM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] High altitude off-grid systems

Wrenches
Here is the math, well the answer at sea level your body has 14.70 PSI exerted 
on it, at 10,000 feet you only have 10.163 PSI, reduced air pressure, reduced 
cooling or heating ability adjusted for standard sea level temp or just over 
69%.
I have done work in Hawaii on the big island up at the summit, it can be warm 
and very thin air, without air to cool no inverter will perform very well. I 
have some SMA, FX and Raidians in warm high altitude locations and added extra 
cooling to compensate for the lack of air. You will hear the cooling fans 
spinning faster, moving less air at higher altitudes.
SMA sunny island does have a 9k plus operating altitude but de-rates at less 
the 7k.
Jerry
PV inspector



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

 Original message 
From: Jay Pozner mailto:j...@nunatakenergy.com>>
Date: 4/12/19 10:06 AM (GMT-08:00)
To: RE-wrenches 
mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] High altitude off-grid systems



We do a fair amount of systems at "altitude".  Recently we had an issue with a 
Radian system at about 10,000'.  An 8048 inverter screaming (fans running hard) 
with just 2000 watts of load.  I hounded tech support for two years, and even 
after switching power modules, etc in the end the techs claim a fairly 
substantial deration (that I can't quote right now) of inverter performance 
because of cooling issues.  We  ultimately added another inverter to the system 
at the end of last summer.  I hope this season we will see a better result.   
It makes sense, given the difference in air density, but I do scratch my head 
and wonder why we haven't seen such issues with the older FX's, and some of the 
older legacy systems?

I also know that the Midnite classic charge controllers seem to run the fans 
quite hard as well.  I haven't had to replace any of the fans, and the 
controllers are performing great, but wonder if that will be an issue in the 
future.   It would be great if some manufactures would give us a quality, 
competitively priced, equipment that is rated for altitude, but I don't think 
there are that many options out there as of now


.
[http://static.squarespace.com/static/52f26626e4b049d9fe1f4f70/t/52fd4d40e4b0c0844a0eb2de/1393270590052/?format=1500w]
Jay Pozner
(970) 642-5554
www.nunatakenergy.com
NABCEP Certified PV Installer:
Cert.#031310-177
[http://static.squarespace.com/static/52f26626e4b049d9fe1f4f70/53067822e4b0822d0c7053a4/53067823e4b0ec57163c45a8/1392932899560/NABCEP%20PV%20Seal%20Jay.jpg?format=300w]


On Fri, Apr 12, 2019 at 9:17 AM Steve Higgins 
mailto:st...@surrette.com>> wrote:
Not to add fuel to the fire... and it's been almost 7 years since I've been 
with an Inverter manufacturer so here is my .02 cents...  So again, I hope I'm 
not overstepping the boundaries of the Wrenches list.

If I remember correctly the main issue with the high altitude installs are some 
of the components that are used to build the inverter/controllers aren't rated 
to be used at high altitude, one of the main components that have this issue is 
the electrolytic capacitors.Of course, the specs vary from component to 
component.   I've seen some rated as low as 8000 ft to some as rated as high as 
30,000 ft.   It really just depends on the part(s) that the manufacturer used 
to build the product.

As you gain altitude the temperatures and the air pressure decrease, as it was 
explained to me years ago the problem is with the temperature decrease, this 
will affect the capacitance of the capacitor.  The colder temps will reduce the 
overall capacitance of the capacitor, just like it will with a battery.

These caps are generally used to filter noise from circuits, so when these 
fail, or the capacitance values fall, you don't get the filtering you need and 
this induces noise into your circuitry possibly causing overall failure or 
worse,  the dreaded intermittent failure.   Generally, if the 
inverters/controllers are kept on and warm, you won't have too many problems, 
it's when they are in extremely cold temperatures is when you will start having 
issues.

Hope this helps!   Have a good weekend!


[https://i.imgur.com/uXcqgyz.png]
Steve Higgins ⋅ Technical Services Manager
t +1.902.597.4020  m +1.206.790.5840
f +1.902.597.8447  e st...@surrette.com

Re: [RE-wrenches] module level control for offgrid

[Lones Tuss]

Hello Jay
Well it seems that I can't leave well enough alone. 

Below are some links I have found to the Tigo and IMO products concerning 
module level shutdown.
Both have been tested with OutBack products.
I do not think Tigo or IMO have a presence on Wrenches and I know this is 
gaining importance. 
I hope this helps.
 Take Care All 

Tigo 
https://www.tigoenergy.com/about-tigo/certifications/rapid-shutdown-system-modules/


IMO Fireraptor is a module level shutdown system that is tested and works with 
OutBack gear.
https://imorenewableenergy.com/fireraptor.html



-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of jay
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2019 5:02 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] module level control for offgrid

** [EXTERNAL EMAIL] - Please report any suspicious attachments, links, or 
requests for sensitive information to the Help Desk. ** 


HI All,

Well its the new year and Module level control is here. 690.12 (B)(2)

Does anyone have any updates as to products that work with CC's that meet it?

Thx
jay

Peltz Power




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Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback Boards

[Lones Tuss]

Hello Drake
Yes replacing a single board in an FX is possible. In the case of a lightning 
strike it may be advisable to replace all three boards as damage may not be 
visible.
Take Care Sir

From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of 
drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org
Sent: Tuesday, February 5, 2019 2:52 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outback Boards

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requests for sensitive information to the Help Desk. **

Hello Wrenches,

It is my understanding that old Outback VFX inverters can not have only one 
board replaced, but need to have three changed.

We have an inverter that is from around 2005 (serial number VFX 008968). Can 
one board be replaced on this unit?

Thanks,

Drake

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Re: [RE-wrenches] module level control for offgrid

[Lones Tuss]

Hello
Below is a link to the OutBack rapid shutdown webinar.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0j9u-u7PRU;

Sorry for my earlier misdirection.


From: cwar...@entech-engineering.com 
Sent: Monday, February 4, 2019 5:49 AM
To: RE-wrenches 
Cc: Lones Tuss 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] module level control for offgrid


Lones, Does Outback have any schematic details on the installation of these 
devices with the Outback devices?  Chris Warfel




On 2019-02-03 02:18, Lones Tuss wrote:
Hello Jay and All
Concerning module level shutdown.
Tigo has conducted testing and has validated the FM60/80 charge controllers 
with their TS4 Module Platform

Imo's FireRaptor has been tested by OutBack and can be used successfully in 
combination with FM60/80/100  the ICS Plus and the Skybox 5048

-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches 
mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org>>
 On Behalf Of jay
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2019 5:02 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>>
Subject: [RE-wrenches] module level control for offgrid

** [EXTERNAL EMAIL] - Please report any suspicious attachments, links, or 
requests for sensitive information to the Help Desk. ** 


HI All,

Well its the new year and Module level control is here. 690.12 (B)(2)

Does anyone have any updates as to products that work with CC's that meet it?

Thx
jay

Peltz Power




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Re: [RE-wrenches] module level control for offgrid

[Lones Tuss]

Hello World
I apologize the link below is a dead link.
I will search out the proper link and post it as soon as I am able.




From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of 
Lones Tuss
Sent: Tuesday, February 5, 2019 9:46 AM
To: cwar...@entech-engineering.com; RE-wrenches 

Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] module level control for offgrid

Hello All
Below is a link to an OutBack webinar concerning module level shutdown.
Date: Wednesday January 9, 2019
Time: 10:00 AM PST – 10:30 AM PST

http://www.outbackpower.com/resources/obt-training/webinars

Class Description:
As of January 1, 2019, 27 states have adopted the 2017 edition of the NEC and 
with it Article 690.12(B)(2) addresses PV array safety, for firefighters. 
California’s adoption starts in 2020. The biggest change in the 2017 edition is 
the requirement for inside the array rapid shut down. For many installers, the 
most effective way to meet the requirement is with a module-level device to 
limit voltage of conductors to less than 80V, 30 seconds after shutdown 
initiation. In this webinar, we will discuss solutions that meet this 
requirement that work with OutBack Power products.



From: cwar...@entech-engineering.com<mailto:cwar...@entech-engineering.com> 
mailto:cwar...@entech-engineering.com>>
Sent: Monday, February 4, 2019 5:49 AM
To: RE-wrenches 
mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>>
Cc: Lones Tuss mailto:lt...@outbackpower.com>>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] module level control for offgrid


Lones, Does Outback have any schematic details on the installation of these 
devices with the Outback devices?  Chris Warfel




On 2019-02-03 02:18, Lones Tuss wrote:
Hello Jay and All
Concerning module level shutdown.
Tigo has conducted testing and has validated the FM60/80 charge controllers 
with their TS4 Module Platform

Imo's FireRaptor has been tested by OutBack and can be used successfully in 
combination with FM60/80/100  the ICS Plus and the Skybox 5048

-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches 
mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org>>
 On Behalf Of jay
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2019 5:02 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>>
Subject: [RE-wrenches] module level control for offgrid

** [EXTERNAL EMAIL] - Please report any suspicious attachments, links, or 
requests for sensitive information to the Help Desk. ** 


HI All,

Well its the new year and Module level control is here. 690.12 (B)(2)

Does anyone have any updates as to products that work with CC's that meet it?

Thx
jay

Peltz Power




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Re: [RE-wrenches] module level control for offgrid

[Lones Tuss]

Hello All
Below is a link to an OutBack webinar concerning module level shutdown.
Date: Wednesday January 9, 2019
Time: 10:00 AM PST – 10:30 AM PST

http://www.outbackpower.com/resources/obt-training/webinars

Class Description:
As of January 1, 2019, 27 states have adopted the 2017 edition of the NEC and 
with it Article 690.12(B)(2) addresses PV array safety, for firefighters. 
California’s adoption starts in 2020. The biggest change in the 2017 edition is 
the requirement for inside the array rapid shut down. For many installers, the 
most effective way to meet the requirement is with a module-level device to 
limit voltage of conductors to less than 80V, 30 seconds after shutdown 
initiation. In this webinar, we will discuss solutions that meet this 
requirement that work with OutBack Power products.



From: cwar...@entech-engineering.com 
Sent: Monday, February 4, 2019 5:49 AM
To: RE-wrenches 
Cc: Lones Tuss 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] module level control for offgrid


Lones, Does Outback have any schematic details on the installation of these 
devices with the Outback devices?  Chris Warfel




On 2019-02-03 02:18, Lones Tuss wrote:
Hello Jay and All
Concerning module level shutdown.
Tigo has conducted testing and has validated the FM60/80 charge controllers 
with their TS4 Module Platform

Imo's FireRaptor has been tested by OutBack and can be used successfully in 
combination with FM60/80/100  the ICS Plus and the Skybox 5048

-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches 
mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org>>
 On Behalf Of jay
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2019 5:02 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>>
Subject: [RE-wrenches] module level control for offgrid

** [EXTERNAL EMAIL] - Please report any suspicious attachments, links, or 
requests for sensitive information to the Help Desk. ** 


HI All,

Well its the new year and Module level control is here. 690.12 (B)(2)

Does anyone have any updates as to products that work with CC's that meet it?

Thx
jay

Peltz Power




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Re: [RE-wrenches] module level control for offgrid

[Lones Tuss]

Hello Jay and All
Concerning module level shutdown. 
Tigo has conducted testing and has validated the FM60/80 charge controllers 
with their TS4 Module Platform 

Imo's FireRaptor has been tested by OutBack and can be used successfully in 
combination with FM60/80/100  the ICS Plus and the Skybox 5048

-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of jay
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2019 5:02 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] module level control for offgrid

** [EXTERNAL EMAIL] - Please report any suspicious attachments, links, or 
requests for sensitive information to the Help Desk. ** 


HI All,

Well its the new year and Module level control is here. 690.12 (B)(2)

Does anyone have any updates as to products that work with CC's that meet it?

Thx
jay

Peltz Power




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Re: [RE-wrenches] mate 3s locking

[Lones Tuss]

Hello All

And

Hello Jay

I just asked the tech support boss on this as I had no idea.

He has a test setup that allows him to switch individuals lines on the cat5 
cables.

We can duplicate Jay's  screen shot below by opening the some of the lines to 
the cat 5 cable.

[cid:image003.jpg@01D47DA9.B5D61C00]



So as a start try replacing the cat5 between the Mate3S and the Hub.

Using the silicone grease that comes with a Mate is never a bad idea.

If your customer does not have a cable on hand I would try removing the cable 
several times perhaps that could help to dislodge any corrosion or dust on the 
connections.



I hope this helps.

Take Care All





-Original Message-

From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of jay

Sent: Friday, November 16, 2018 8:05 AM

To: RE-wrenches 

Subject: [RE-wrenches] mate 3s locking



** [EXTERNAL EMAIL] - Please report any suspicious attachments, links, or 
requests for sensitive information to the Help Desk. ** 




HI All,



I'm wondering if anyone else is having mate 3s locking up problems?



I've got 2 systems that have had this happen.



One is a big system ( 2 radians and 5 CC).  Of course its a long ways away and 
no there isn't internet so no OpticsRE.



Its been reprogramed with latest REV firmware.  No change.



thx



jay



peltz power

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Re: [RE-wrenches] battery temp sensors for older Trace/Xantrex inverters

[Lones Tuss]

Hello All
The Trace Battery Temp sensor has a 100 k negative coefficient.
The Outback Battery temp sensor has a 10 K negative coefficient.
The Outback temp senor will not work with Trace equipment.



From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Chris Schaefer
Sent: Saturday, August 4, 2018 2:05 PM
To: re-wrenches 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] battery temp sensors for older Trace/Xantrex inverters

Good Day All,

Running into a lot of missing or chewed up battery temp sensors for the older 
Trace inverters. I'm looking for potential replacements. Anyone had any luck 
using another vendor or do you have a direct replacement source for these?

Thanks,
Christopher-

Chris Schaefer’s
[http://www.solarandwindfx.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Solar-Wind-FX-Logo.png]
Tel/Fax 585-229-2083 or Cell 585-748-1870
5115 South Hill Road ~ Canandaigua New York 14424
www.solarandwindfx.com ~ E-mail: 
ch...@solarandwindfx.com

[http://solarandwindfx.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/certs.jpg]

Thomas Jefferson, the author of our great Constitution, once said, "democracy" 
will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and 
give to those who would not."
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Xfmr's job?

[Lones Tuss]

Hello All
The VFX/FX inverters does make use of the X240 transformer.
The transformer itself could act as a step up, a step down, or a load balancing 
transformer.
Neither the FXR or the Radian inverters require the transformer as a load 
balancing transformer.
The transformer can still be used in its step up or step down configurations.
The FXRA does not use the transformer for load balancing therefore each 
inverter must be sized to handle the loads 
and any associated surges as required by the ac loads on that leg.
What was lost was the ability of the inverter systems to "borrow" from the 
lessor used ac leg.

What was gained. 
The FXRA can sell back with up to 10 inverters compared to two of the GVFX .
The FXRA can have up to 9 inverters in a 3 phase system compared to 3 with the 
VFX.
The FXRA has seven modes of operation allowing on grid or off grid operation.
SA capabilities are also available.

The question "How much wattage could be supplied by the Radian on a single AC 
leg" was also asked.
I put 6000 watts on L1 leaving no loads connected to the L2 phase.
I will add this is not recommended practice. 
The loads should be balanced at the ac panel as closely as possible.
But real life conditions are not always ideal.
I hope this helps to clarify.
Take Care All









-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2018 7:53 AM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Xfmr's job?

The 8kw radian still has to have balance! You can't expect it to supply 8kw  @ 
120vac. It can supply 8kw  @ 240 vac.


> Does each of the 4 kW 240 volt inverters have a maximum on the 
> 120-volt power it can supply?  for example, can it supply 70% of the 4 
> kW on 120 -volts?
> This example would leave 5.6 kW of 120-volt?
>
> On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 11:09 PM, jerrysgarage01 
> 
> wrote:
>
>> The Radian has 2, 4k, 240 volt inverters, so its different but the 
>> way the computer works it makes the same from the load side of things 
>> Jerry
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
>>
>>
>>  Original message 
>> From: frenergy 
>> Date: 5/29/18 5:51 PM (GMT-10:00)
>> To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Xfmr's job?
>>
>> Hey folks,
>>
>> Outback FP2 with Xfrmr shifts power to "other" leg if 
>> that leg needs more than the one FX can provide, right?  Say, you 
>> need 5.5 KW on leg 1, the Xfrmr pulls some power from the leg 2 
>> (inverter) to support that 5.5KW load on leg 1.
>>
>> My question (assuming above is accurate) is does the 8048 Radian do 
>> the same?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Bill
>>
>> Feather River Solar Electric
>> Bill Battagin, Owner
>> 4291 Nelson St.
>> Taylorsville, CA 95983
>> 530.284.7849
>> CA Lic 874049
>> www.frenergy.net
>>
>>
>> ---
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>
>>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Radian throughput power

[Lones Tuss]

Hello Lones here.
 When an ac source is accepted by the inverter. The rely connects the ac input 
directly to the ac output. The relay is (should be) protected by a 50 amp 
breaker
If there is an ac load of 8KW or 33 ac amps the remaining current is available 
to be used by the inverter for battery charging. If the load increases above 8k 
charging is reduced to honor the loads first. If the loads chew up all 50 amps 
charging will be reduced to zero. Above 50 and the breaker should trip or 
damage to the relay may result.
 It is possible to use Support Mode. This sets a limit on the amount of current 
passing through from the source to the loads. Any amount above the set point 
will be supplied from the batteries. If the ac input current is set to 25 ac 
amps. Any load above the 25 amps will come from the batteries. Sustained loads 
above this adjustable set point could possibly deplete the batteries. If the 
load drops below the 25amp charging will resume.
It is possible have an ac source and deplete the batteries.
Loads first Charging 2nd.
I hope this helps.
Take Care All

-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2018 9:16 AM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Radian throughput power

You are missing the charging of the battery! That is where (your numbers) the 
12KW - 8KW can go!


Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

> Wrenches,
>
>              I spoke with tech support at Outback recently 
> and was told the max output of the Radian at the output terminals is 
> 8KW, even if there is an external AC source connected to one of the AC 
> IN terminals of the Radian.
>
>              However, on page 18 of the GS8048 manual:  
> "When it (transfer relay) closes the L1 input and output terminals 
> become electrically common."  ...same for L2 input and output. then, 
> "the relay contacts are limited to 55 amps per phase or leg".  Since 
> there is no 55 amp circuit breaker to protect that relay a 50 amp 2 
> pole breaker would be used.  This means you would have 50A X 240 Vac 
> (12KW) at the output terminals, correct?
>
>              Am I missing something?  Thanks,
>
> Bill
>
> Feather River Solar Electric
> Bill Battagin, Owner
> 4291 Nelson St.
> Taylorsville, CA 95983
> 530.284.7849
> CA Lic 874049
> www.frenergy.net
>
>
> ---
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Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

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Re: [RE-wrenches] outback GSLC parts

[Lones Tuss]

Hello Wrenchers
On the buss bar question. 
There is the stripped down version of the GSLC. 
Please see page 7 in the manual (Link Below).
http://www.outbackpower.com/downloads/documents/Make_the_Power/radian_gs_load_center/gs_loadcenter_install.pdf

 It comes with the pictured items but also included are the positive buss plate 
and the 2 positive buss bars for the power modules positive dc connections. 
 The part number is simply   GSLC


Below is a link to the spec sheet.
http://www.outbackpower.com/downloads/documents/Make_the_Power/radian_gs_load_center/GSloadcenter_specsheet.pdf

I hope this helps 
Take Care All

Lones Tuss
Applications Engineer
OutBack Power Technologies
17825 59th Ave NE, Suite B, Arlington, WA 98223
360.618.4383 Office | 425.213.8794 Cell
www.outbackpower.com

-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of jay
Sent: Wednesday, November 8, 2017 12:44 PM
To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>
Subject: [RE-wrenches] outback GSLC parts

HI All,

Does anyone know if its possible to buy the inverter positive DC bus bars 
separately?
( its the part that goes from the breakers to the power modules)

And if so where?

My next GSLC I’m looking to use the most striped down version but if I can’t 
get the bus bars its hard to mount the main inverter breakers.

thanks
jay

Peltz power




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Re: [RE-wrenches] FXR , Mate 3, AGS and Must Run

[Lones Tuss]

You said one status screen differed from the other. Just a shot of the home 
screen on  3.15.3

Lones Tuss
Applications Engineer
OutBack Power Technologies
17825 59th Ave NE, Suite B, Arlington, WA 98223
360.618.4383 Office | 425.213.8794 Cell
www.outbackpower.com<http://www.outbackpower.com/>

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Ray
Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2017 12:29 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] FXR , Mate 3, AGS and Must Run


I agree, software and firmware issues are becoming my #1 call back issue.  Off 
grid, this is totally unacceptable. I'm not using either company you mentioned 
for off grid systems at this time because of reliability issues. I've had 
decent luck with Magnum, and find their control system easier for customers to 
navigate.

Some of this becomes our design responsibility, too.  I generally avoid auto 
start in the first place, and prefer customers that take an active role in the 
system operation.  A SOC meter with a remote start switch next to it, operated 
by a competent human is going to be much more effective than any auto start 
setup.

R. Ray Walters

Chief Technical Officer, RemoteSolar.com

BS Mech Engineering, 1988

Former NABCEP Certified, 2004-2016

Licensed Master ELectrician, Colorado

303 505-8760

On 2/12/17 11:12 AM, Lou Russo wrote:
Aloha Wrenches,

I have steered clear of the Mate 3 for as long as possible, I have burned 
through my stash of FXs and now have been installing the FXRs and using the 
Mate 3. I typically utilize AGS for my clients in a 2 - wire start with a 
Diesel Genset setup. On 2 recently installed systems, one a FP2 and the other a 
FP1, the clients require "Must Run" to function. Of course it does not work. I 
can get it to work if I set the time for a few minutes later, but not for the 
next day. I have not used this feature ever in the past but since it is in the 
manual I wrongly assumed it would work. I am running firmware version 3.015 on 
both Mates. Tech support just wants me to do a factory reset and reprogram. 
That did not work.

Anybody else having issues getting this feature to work?

On a related note, software problems are becoming a systemics issue in our 
industry. Being recently burned by Schneider because of a software issue (to 
the point of breaking an appliance), now this, and endless other little bugs 
from almost every manufacturer my frustration level with software in the 
off-grid world is at a all time high. Given the importance of supplying power I 
firmly believe our manufactures can not and should not take the same approach 
to software as Silicon Valley does. "Fail early and often" may work for  
Facebook, Google and Uber but it has no place in our industry. Keep it simple 
and fight the urge to engage in feature creep. PLEASE.


Aloha,

Lou Russo
l...@spreesolarsystems.com<mailto:l...@spreesolarsystems.com>
440 345 6762<tel:%28440%29%20345-6762>
Spree Solar Systems LLC
CT-34322





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Re: [RE-wrenches] Load Management vs Multiple Inverters and OutBack Radian vs Flexware systems

[Lones Tuss]

Hello
Radian stacking and power save levels are in the Radian Programming Manual
 Starting page 36
http://www.outbackpower.com/downloads/documents/Make_the_Power/radian_8048a_4048a/gs_8048a_4048a_operator.pdf
The GS8048A can be stacked with a GS4048A inverter for a 12Kw system.

Lones Tuss
Applications Engineer
OutBack Power Technologies
17825 59th Ave NE, Suite B, Arlington, WA 98223
360.618.4383 Office | 425.213.8794 Cell
www.outbackpower.com<http://www.outbackpower.com/>

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of William Miller
Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2016 11:18 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Load Management vs Multiple Inverters and OutBack 
Radian vs Flexware systems

Dave:

Here are the differences between the Outback Radian and FX inverters that I 
think are pertinent to your situation:


1.The Radian has generator support.  Don’t confuse this with generator 
start.  Gen support allows the inverter to sync to and aid the generator in 
providing power to loads.  The new FX inverter is the FXR and I am not sure it 
has this capability.  It is worth checking into.  Avoid an inverter without 
this function.

2.The Radian provides more power per hub-port than does the FX series.  The 
Radian can provide 8 kw per hub port while the FX maxes out at 3.6 kW per port. 
  This may not seem important but it can be.  If you have a Flexnet DC unit it 
occupies on port, therefore you are limited to 32 Kw (3.6 * 9 ports).  With 
Radian, you are allowed up to 72 Kw (8*9 ports).  And if you reach these 
maximums, there are no ports for charge controllers.  I wish Outback would put 
some resources into eliminating this bottleneck (and allow more than one Mate, 
please).

3.I am not fond of the X240 transformer system.  I have seen too many 
instances of tripped breakers.  The power save scheme is awkward when using FX 
inverters, and if you ask three Outback employees about setting this function 
you will get three answers.

4.Outback supposedly has a white paper on stacking more than two Radians, 
but I can’t seem to find it.  Lones, do you have access to this?

5.You are correct in looking at battery charging ratings.  With a big 
system comes big batteries.  You want to be able to charge them in an 
appropriate length of time.

I always hesitate to try and comingle equipment from too many different 
manufacturers.  Battery inverter systems are finicky enough as they are.  This 
may preclude load management.  Consider how you would implement this:  it would 
mean contactors, maybe an additional sub-panel, wiring, etc.  Sounds 
problematic to me.

Wiring a Radian system is different than wiring a Flexware system.  I find the 
Radian easier now that I have learned a few tricks:


1.Remove all AC breakers from the GSLC cabinets.  Instead use two outboard 
load centers: one for generator fed and one for inverter fed.  To provide 
bypass, run the generator power to the inverter fed panel and provide breaker 
interlocks.  For smaller systems use a factory provided interlock.  For larger 
systems, we custom build breaker interlocks.  Contact me off-line for more 
information.

2.Remove all of the PV breakers from the GSLC.  You can use a Midnite DIN 
rail or panel mount breaker cabinet or even an Outback combiner to mount din 
rail mount your PV and charge controller breakers.

I hope this helps.

William Miller


[Gradient Cap_mini]
Lic 773985
millersolar.com<http://www.millersolar.com/>
805-438-5600



On Dec 15, 2016, at 10:08 AM, Dave Palumbo 
<palumbo1...@gmail.com<mailto:palumbo1...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Wrenchers,

I am involved in designing an off grid system that will need  multiple 
inverters (probably OutBack). My experience over the years has been limited to 
no more than 8kW's of inverter on a big system (for me). The load profile is 
not completed yet, but it is looking like this may require more power if all of 
the loads were to be on/surge at the same time. The client wants things to run 
as seamlessly as practical and has the means to pay for a nice system.
• Are automatic load management devices worth looking into? I have no 
experience with them except for one of my off griders (early adopter type) had 
one put in about 15 years ago on his system and I think it worked OK but it 
seemed like a lot of money and work to install and it takes up some space. More 
technical stuff to deal with.
• How fool proof is it and is it worth messing with? Vs. adding more 
inverter wattage?

• With OutBack these days what are the Pros and Cons comparing a Radian 
system vs a Flexware 1000 system?
• Why does the Radian line have different ratings per unit of a 48VDC 
inverter? Isn't the Radian two vented 48V inverters in a big box?
• The regular OB VFXR3648's  have lower continuous power and surge 
ratings and lower battery charging amps when compared to a Radian. Two

Re: [RE-wrenches] Firmware, Firmware, Firmaware was Outback Programming Ghost

[Lones Tuss]

Hello All
  The legacy Mate(2) and legacy FX inverters did require the units to be sent 
to OutBack to be updated.
The Mate3 and the FXRA inverters can all be updated in the field.
The newest revisions of software are available on the OutBack website.
http://outbackpower.com/catalogs-collaterals/category/td-firmware-updates

Down load the new firmware on an SD Card insert it into the Mate3
Press the Lock Button enter 141 as the password.
Select Firmware Update
Then choose the device you wish to update.

 When updating the inverters it is advised to put the system in Bypass as the 
inverters will shut down when an update is performed.


Lones Tuss
Applications Engineer
OutBack Power Technologies
17825 59th Ave NE, Suite B, Arlington, WA 98223
360.618.4383 Office | 425.213.8794 Cell
www.outbackpower.com<http://www.outbackpower.com/>

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of William Miller
Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2016 9:17 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Firmware, Firmware, Firmaware was Outback 
Programming Ghost

 Ray:

Upgrading firmware on inverters and Mates requires either a board swap for 
inverters or a trip to the factory for a standard Mate. Only the Mate3 can be 
field upgraded.

Then, if you have mixed inverter firmware, there can be unintended 
consequences. For example, we upgraded a fourth inverter because of a failure. 
We were told to make it the master. When we did, the gen would disconnect after 
20 minutes. We changed it back to a slave and problem resolved.

In our society, the price for added features is added frustration.

William

On Nov 12, 2016, at 8:32 AM, Ray Walters 
<r...@solarray.com<mailto:r...@solarray.com>> wrote:
I second uprading all firmware on all devices.  I had a recent FXR install that 
was dropping one of the inverters (and its leg) whenever the system tried to 
sell.  Latest firmware cured the issues.
The industry is moving from us being electricians to becoming computer techs.  
Retirement looks better each day.


R.Ray Walters

CTO, Solarray, Inc

Nabcep Certified PV Installer,

Licensed Master Electrician

Solar Design Engineer

303 505-8760
On 11/12/2016 6:08 AM, Wayne Irwin wrote:

Very strange that all the programming is scrambled.



Recently we had a FXR system which had been working fine for nearly six months 
come up with an incompatibility error with the slave inverter even though the 
firmware was the most recent and the same for both inverters. After several 
failed attempts to re-upgrade the inverter firmware, we took a shot at 
upgrading the Mate 3 firmware which did work. We then again tried the inverters 
and it worked. System is now working again (for now) and the programming is all 
still valid.




Wayne Irwin,
President
License #CVC56695
State Licensed Solar Contractor
Pure Energy Solar International Inc.
wa...@pureenergysolar.com<mailto:pureenergyso...@hotmail.com>
http://PureEnergySolar.com
http://SolarChargingStation.net<https://solarchargingstation.net>
352 377-6527 Office
352 336-3299 Fax


The Sun Is Always Shining!

The content of this message is Pure Energy Solar Confidential. If you are not 
the intended recipient and have received this message in error, any use or 
distribution is prohibited. Please notify me immediately by reply e-mail and 
delete this message from your computer system. Thank you.


From: RE-wrenches 
<re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org><mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org>
 on behalf of William Miller 
<will...@millersolar.com><mailto:will...@millersolar.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2016 11:26 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback Programming Ghost

Ray:

I have no reason to believe anyone has been meddling. No one knows the 
password. It does look like some serious glitch.

William

On Nov 10, 2016, at 6:25 PM, Ray Walters 
<r...@solarray.com<mailto:r...@solarray.com>> wrote:
It almost sounds like someone got in there and tried to reprogram stuff 
themselves.  Have you installed the proper anti-Gremlin devices?


R.Ray Walters

CTO, Solarray, Inc

Nabcep Certified PV Installer,

Licensed Master Electrician

Solar Design Engineer

303 505-8760
On 11/10/2016 12:34 PM, William Miller wrote:
Colleagues:

I maintain an off-grid, 8 stack FX Outback system with 3 charge controllers.  
The system has been on line for about 6 years.  It got upgraded about 7 months 
ago with 2 Mate3s.

About a week ago the system shutdown, leaving the customer without power.  A 
maintenance worker started a generator and power was restored.  I did not hear 
about the situation for several days.

A maintenance supervisor was dispatched yesterday to work with me over the 
telephone to see if we could restart the system.  The system would only run if 
the inverter output breakers were all off.

I examined the system via Optics.  I was very surp

Re: [RE-wrenches] MATE3 restart

[Lones Tuss]

Hello Mr. Dahl
I believe a Firmware update will be required. Down load the latest Firmware 
from the OutBack Website onto an otherwise empty SD card. Insert the SD card in 
the Mate3 then power it up.

If you press and hold the UP button it will force an update. 
After the update is complete it might be a good idea to clear the Internal Data 
Logs.
Press Lock 
Enter the password 141
select Settings then System
Scroll down to 
Clear Internal Data Log
Then choose yes.
This should get you up and running.
If it does not help email me directly for further assistance.



Take Care sir

Lones Tuss
Applications Engineer
OutBack Power Technologies
17825 59th Ave NE, Suite B, Arlington, WA 98223
360.618.4383 Office | 425.213.8794 Cell
www.outbackpower.com


-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Solar
Sent: Friday, November 04, 2016 4:24 AM
To: Wrenches
Subject: [RE-wrenches] MATE3 restart

All,

We have a MATE3 on campus that resets each time you press a button to leave the 
main screen.  For example, we will press the "charger" button followed by 
pressing the "graph" button, at this point the screen will stall. The other 
buttons won't work at this point and the MATE will shut off and restart. 


Jesse Dahl

NABCEP PV Installation Professional
IBEW Local 292 - Electrician 
Electrical/Solar PV Instructor - HCC

Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Made three shut down

[Lones Tuss]

Hi Dana
If you are in a lightning prone area surge protection is a must.
OutBack has a surge protection device that mounts directly on the inverter (see 
the link below).
http://www.outbackpower.com/downloads/documents/Hardware_Accessories/flexware_surge_protector/fw_sp_specsheet_english.pdf
Midnite makes surge protection devices can that be added through-out the system.
The Mate3 will not be negatively affected by surge protection.
Lightning protection is a controversial subject and is certain to invoke strong 
opinions.
Lightning protection strategically placed throughout an electrical system can 
only help.
Unfortunately I don’t think anyone is willing to offer a 100% guarantee of 
protection.




Lones Tuss
Applications Engineer
OutBack Power Technologies
17825 59th Ave NE, Suite B, Arlington, WA 98223
360.618.4383 Office | 425.213.8794 Cell
www.outbackpower.com<http://www.outbackpower.com/>

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Dana Solar work
Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2016 3:04 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Made three shut down

I have a client who's Mate three basically seized up, Lost its programming and 
I did a manual reprogram which it then proceeded to lose that also. I called 
Outback tech they suggested I reset to factory default and then reprogram which 
due to the fact I had to leave Colorado for 48 hours I can't do it now the 
system is complete shut down.
The tech at Outback said that lightning strikes nearby could exhibit an EMP 
effect on the mate or even static that would cause this to happen.
Is anyone aware of any filtration/ surge protection device that might work 
without interfering with the maid threes function and accommodate an ethernet 
cable?
Phil Underkuffler at outback if you want to chime in on this I'd appreciate it 
and since it is lightning season in Colorado I'm sure other people may 
appreciate it too
From the road in Idaho thanks

Dana Orzel 2087217003
Great Solarworks Inc - NABCEP#051112-136
e-d...@solarwork.com<mailto:e-d...@solarwork.com> c-2087217003
"Responsible Technology for Responsible People since 1988"
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Mate3

[Lones Tuss]

Hello Bill
 Doing so presents no problem to the system or the Mate3.


Lones Tuss
Applications Engineer
OutBack Power Technologies
17825 59th Ave NE, Suite B, Arlington, WA 98223
360.618.4383 Office | 425.213.8794 Cell
www.outbackpower.com

-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of frenergy
Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2016 9:08 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Mate3

Folks,

 I'd like to leave the Mate3 at the OB pre-assembled power center but 
be able to turn on-off the inverter at a remote location 50 feet away.  I 
assume I can still run some com wire of some kind to a push switch or toggle? 
connected to the inverter on-off landing of the control wiring terminal block 
in the AC side of the inverter.  Will the
Mate3 complain if on-off is done this way?

Bill

Feather River Solar Electric
Bill Battagin, Owner
4291 Nelson St.
Taylorsville, CA 95983
530.284.7849
CA Lic 874049
www.frenergy.net


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Optics RE with two hubs.

[Lones Tuss]

The Flex net DC can be used with up to three shunts.
It will give individual shunt information as well as overall total of the three.
The actual labels do not matter other than easy identification.
But if you do want to label them it is done in the Configuration Wizard
I would recommend installing the FNDC on the Mate3/Hub combination used with 
the inverters.
It is nice to have SOC, Dc Voltage and Battery Temperature viewed with the 
inverters.

Do I really need the PV shunt?

Yes for the FNDC to be accurate all paths into and out of the batteries must go 
through a shunt.

I can’t seem to find the screen where you label the charge controllers.

The Mate3 with the charge controllers will label them as Port 1-10.
You can assign a name to a shunt you cannot assign a name to a charge 
controller.

Each Mate has its own Mac address put both Mates under the same site name.

Just to clarify OutBack usually uses a 500 amp 50mv shunt.
500/ .05 = 10,000 to 1 ratio
It is possible to use a 1000A 100mv shunt
The 10,000 to 1 ratio is the same.
This can help with larger systems.
I apologize for the piece meal response.
There are several questions here that had to be dealt with individually.
I hope this helps.
Take Care


Lones Tuss
Applications Engineer
OutBack Power Technologies
17825 59th Ave NE, Suite B, Arlington, WA 98223
360.618.4383 Office | 425.213.8794 Cell
www.outbackpower.com<http://www.outbackpower.com/>

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Jay
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2016 9:22 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Optics RE with two hubs.

Nope doesn't care.
You could have 1 shunt or 3.
You just get to monitor the 3 shunts.
The m3 display uses comm from the cc

Jay

Sent from my iPhone

On May 3, 2016, at 8:44 AM, William Miller 
<will...@millersolar.com<mailto:will...@millersolar.com>> wrote:
Jay:

Thanks for the reply. I meant label the shunts. Doesn't the FNDC need to 
differentiate between PV charge and inverter charge?

William

On May 3, 2016, at 7:18 AM, Jay 
<jay.pe...@gmail.com<mailto:jay.pe...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi William,

Yes you need the shunt for PV the FNDC to read correctly

I'm not sure exactly what you mean about labeling the cc?
The FNDC doesn't care what each shunt does. Cc, inverter DC loads etc, if 
that's what you mean


Jay
Peltz power.




On May 3, 2016, at 12:10 AM, William Miller 
<will...@millersolar.com<mailto:will...@millersolar.com>> wrote:
Friends:

I am setting up an Optics RE system with a system that has 8 FX inverters and 3 
charge controllers.  I installed two Mate3s and a Flexnet-DC.  I need two 
shunts for the Inverters because 4 are connected in one DC1000 and 4 in the 
other.  I installed a third shunt for the PV.

The inverter Mate3 and Flexnet connects into one 10 port hub and the PV Mate3 
connects into another hub with the charge controllers.

Do I really need the PV shunt?  How is the Flexnet processing charge current if 
it does not know there are charge controllers?

I can’t seem to find the screen where you label the charge controllers.  I am 
used to setting these up with Radians.  Am I missing something?

Any help is appreciates. Because when I posed this question to Outback and got 
the audible equivalent to a blank stare:


Thanks in advance,

William Miller



Lic 773985
millersolar.com<http://www.millersolar.com/>
805-438-5600

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Mobile solar trailer

[Lones Tuss]

Hello sir
You might also want to look into
http://www.mobilesolarpower.net/
I hope this helps
Take Care

Lones Tuss
Applications Engineer
OutBack Power Technologies
17825 59th Ave NE, Suite B, Arlington, WA 98223
360.618.4383 Office | 425.213.8794 Cell
www.outbackpower.com<http://www.outbackpower.com/>

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Dave
Sent: Monday, May 09, 2016 1:02 PM
To: 'RE-wrenches'
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Mobile solar trailer

Wrenches,

I have a customer looking for a tow behind solar trailer with the following 
specs:

Major features should include

* 120/240Vac output

* sealed Out Back inverters (because of moist and possibly dusty 
conditions)

* approx. 12,000 Watt Hours of rated battery storage.  Thought is that 
(8) AGM 6v 250AH batteries would work

* approx. 1,500W PV Array

I am requesting a quote from Patriot Solar (Albion, MI) 
http://patriotsolargroup.com/products/solar-parent/solar-child/solar-trailers-2-4kw/

Does anyone know of other trailers that are in this class, new or used? 
Hopefully cost effective units? Something like the tow behinds that Jason 
Szumlanski made at AMP Systems would be appropriate.

David Palumbo
Independent Power LLC
462 Solar Way Drive
Hyde Park, VT 05655
802-371-8678 cell
802-888-4917 home

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback programing question

[Lones Tuss]

Hello Fellow Wrenches

  Due to customer feedback OutBack decided to automatically enable the 
Inverters Ac Charger
if the Mate(3) called for an AGS (gen run) condition.  The general opinion here 
is if the gen is running you might as well allow it to charge your batteries. 
Before we did this there were instances of generators running for hours/days 
before the end user discovered he had set the charger to OFF. 

That being said if charging by the inverter is not desired during a Gen run 
there
are several methods which will allow charging to be disabled.

The method you use will more than likely depend on your situation.
If you wish to stop charging for the current gen run simply turn the Charge Off 
after the gen is running.
On the Mate3 press the Charger Button select OFF.
On the Mate and Mate2 press the AC Input button three times
the Charger can be turned  OFF there.

If it is necessary to turn the charger off on a more permanent basis there are 
a couple of different approaches.
One method is to go to the inverter charger menu and set the absorb and float 
timers to zero.
Another method and perhaps the easiest would be to change the gen type to DC or 
None.
Of these two I would suggest DC as the preferred choice.
After setting the Inverter Charger to Off follow the path as described below 


On the Mate3 press the 
LOCK button
Enter 141
Select 
Settings then
System  then 
System Information
change Gen Type to DC or None.
If the inverters charger is disabled it will remain so when AGS calls for a gen 
run.
On the Mate or Mate2
In the AGS program menu select DC gen and the Auto Charge feature will be 
negated.

The above will work if the gen run is caused by the following AGS triggers.
Load Start, Must Run, Generator Exercise
If the gen run condition is a Voltage Start the trigger to turn the gen off is 
the batteries must reach the Absorb Voltage for the Absorb Time.
If the gen run condition is SOC the trigger to turn the gen off is the 
batteries must reach
the end SOC set point.
These points may be unachievable with the inverters charger set to OFF.
If this is the case lack of fuel may be the gen stop reason.

Lones Tuss
Applications Engineer
OutBack Power Technologies
17825 59th Ave NE, Suite B, Arlington, WA 98223
360.618.4383 Office | 425.213.8794 Cell
www.outbackpower.com

-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Darren Emmons
Sent: Friday, April 29, 2016 10:57 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback programing question

When the generator is auto started, the inverter's charger will be enabled. 
After the generator is stopped, the inverter's charger will be returned to the 
mode before the generator started. The logic is if you are running the 
generator the Inverter's charger should be enabled. You could lower the charger 
AC limit to 0 Amps.

08:00 Inverter charger OFF
10:00 Must run start -> charger ON
11:00 Must run stop -> charger OFF

 >Darren


On 04/27/2016 05:31 PM, jay wrote:
> HI All,
>
> I've got a problem that outback tech hasn't been able to figure out.
>
> off grid system
> mate 3
> quad stacked VFX 3648
>
> The generator is set to specific start/stop daily timer.  This works fine.
>
> The client has plenty of solar for the day, and when he runs his generator he 
> doesn't want the chargers to operate.
> OK so just hit charge off, and yes the chargers will turn off.
>
> But next day, genny starts up, and the chargers come back on as well.
>
> Outback says that shouldn't be happening, but it is.
>
> Anybody have this issue or know of a fix?
>
> Thanks
>
> jay
>
> peltz power
>
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Remote monitor of an Outback system location

[Lones Tuss]

Hello, Dana.

OpticRe does allow you to set up email alerts, including low battery voltage 
detected on inverter.
However, if the internet service onsite is not reliable, it will interrupt 
communications between the MATE3 and OpticsRE.


Lones Tuss
Applications Engineer
OutBack Power Technologies
17825 59th Ave NE, Suite B, Arlington, WA 98223
360.618.4383 Office | 425.213.8794 Cell
www.outbackpower.com<http://www.outbackpower.com/>

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Dana
Sent: Monday, December 21, 2015 6:05 AM
To: 'RE-wrenches'
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Remote monitor of an Outback system location

Wrenching wizards,

I have a part time occupied client's house at 10,000' elevation that does not 
have: cell service, barely texting capability, & a radio based Century link 
semi reliable analog phone (as long as the wind is not blowing the radio 
antenna around). She does have Hughes-net or equivalent satellite internet & a 
2 year old Outback power system/Mate III with a 20 KW Kohler generator. During 
the latest cold snap (-7°) the generator failed to start as it is in an outdoor 
unheated "garage". LP gas backs up the whole scenario. Snowmobile is the only 
access & if it is a snow storm there is a great chance that you are not getting 
in or out due to sever drifting.

Q - In order to send a low power signal (<23.9 VDC?) or generator failure to 
start distress call from the Outback equipment: What is available to 
communicate a variety of distress signals via internet?
Can the RE Optics interface perform this task?

I have a local security/alarm company that can provide via router (this 
requires AC present though): Low temperature & AC out (but at that point it is 
too late the house is on a downhill slide), Low DC & or generator failure to 
start would be preferable. The alarm company's connection to the router can 
read a closed relay as a command.

Suggestions & what have you used?

Thanks in advance.



Dana Orzel
Great Solar Works, Inc -  NABCEP # 051112-136
E - d...@solarwork.com<mailto:d...@solarwork.com>  - Web - solarwork.com
O - 970.626.5253  C - 208.721.7003
"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"
P Please consider the environment before printing this email.


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