Re: [RE-wrenches] experience with the Tesla Powerwall

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar]

Damaging a mini-split heat pump has happened from this at a home in
Florida. Hard always to prove as anything connected to the grid can be
surge damaged also. Fujitsu did pay the warranty repair but would not if
it happened again.

In cases where I have been approached to AC couple, I just recommend using
the Schneider or Morningstar 600V controller and deselect the grid
inverter solar/select the mppt. The battery inverter gets a programmed
charge from the grid every 2 weeks and is ready to go drive the sub panel.

Tesla says they are going to build an "offgrid" type battery which I
assume to mean that it will not require AC coupling like the current
models do.

Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

> Hi Mac
>
> Thanks for mentioning this, I’ve wondered about it a lot.
> Maybe someone who’s a motor or electronics expert can chime in about
> what potential damage can occur. Electronics, motors, VFD’s, are used to
> seeing voltage +/- by a fair amount, but frequency is rarely off by more
> than a fraction of a percent.
>
>
> If the frequency shift is doing nothing more than turning the GT inverter
> off ( no stepped regulation) then why do that vs relay? It still makes for
> a 5 minute delay on restart, correct?
>
> Thx
> Jay
>
>
>
>
>
>> On Feb 15, 2018, at 7:48 AM, Mac Lewis <maclew...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Wrenches,
>>
>> I just wanted to report that some electronics will fail and burn up
>> during frequency shift.  We have an off-grid Sunny Island system (60-62
>> Hz operating frequency) and we experienced sensitive electronics burning
>> up during these events.  Its been too long since this happened to tell
>> you exactly what burned up.  I think it was some HVAC controls.
>>
>> If its possible, I'd suggest a relay that opens up the grid-tie inverter
>> as opposed to waiting until frequency shift is necessary.  A
>> well-specified relay can be highly reliable and not very expensive.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 11:26 AM, Glenn Burt <glenn.b...@glbcc.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> An installer I have been working with here in southern VT has also
>>> repeatedly applied to become an installer with Tesla for powerwalls
>>> with no response.
>>> I cannot in good conscience recommend their products based on their
>>> history and unresponsiveness in our area.
>>> They may be great for Puerto Rico, and now Australia, but have
>>> currently rated a thumbs down here. We are happy with the sonnen
>>> product, delivery and support.
>>>
>>> Glenn
>>> Sent from my 'smart' phone so please excuse spelling and typographical
>>> errors.
>>>
>>> -- Original message--
>>> From: Dave Tedeyan
>>> Date: Tue, Feb 13, 2018 11:35 AM
>>> To: RE-wrenches;
>>> Cc:
>>> Subject:Re: [RE-wrenches] experience with the Tesla Powerwall
>>>
>>> I think that this may have come up before, but I do not remember there
>>> being a resolution:
>>> Do you guys have any tips on becoming a Tesla dealer? We have people
>>> ask about it all the time, but we have not been able to get Tesla to
>>> respond. We have installed Sonnen, which is also a great system, but
>>> the up front expense scares many people away. We are located in upstate
>>> NY which may have something to do with it.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Dave
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Dave Tedeyan
>>> Senior Engineer
>>>
>>> Taitem Engineering, PC
>>> 10 Verizon Lane, Lansing, NY 14882
>>> Voice: (607) 930-3481 x6
>>> www.taitem.com
>>>
>>>> On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 10:36 AM, August Goers <aug...@luminalt.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> Marco,
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for sharing, it is good to hear details from an installer who
>>>> is living with a Powerwall. We starting selling the Powerwall 2 in
>>>> 2017 and have worked up a large pipeline. We have about 20 installed
>>>> so far, but are still waiting on utility permission to operate which
>>>> is taking a long time. We have spent a good deal of time commissioning
>>>> and testing each system. For the most part, our experience has been
>>>> good although the commissioning software and internet connectivity
>>>> features have been buggy. Hopefully those are issues that will be
>>>> i

Re: [RE-wrenches] experience with the Tesla Powerwall

[Jay]

Hi Mac

Thanks for mentioning this, I’ve wondered about it a lot. 
Maybe someone who’s a motor or electronics expert can chime in about what 
potential damage can occur. Electronics, motors, VFD’s, are used to seeing 
voltage +/- by a fair amount, but frequency is rarely off by more than a 
fraction of a percent. 


If the frequency shift is doing nothing more than turning the GT inverter off ( 
no stepped regulation) then why do that vs relay? It still makes for a 5 minute 
delay on restart, correct?

Thx
Jay





> On Feb 15, 2018, at 7:48 AM, Mac Lewis <maclew...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Wrenches,
> 
> I just wanted to report that some electronics will fail and burn up during 
> frequency shift.  We have an off-grid Sunny Island system (60-62 Hz operating 
> frequency) and we experienced sensitive electronics burning up during these 
> events.  Its been too long since this happened to tell you exactly what 
> burned up.  I think it was some HVAC controls.
> 
> If its possible, I'd suggest a relay that opens up the grid-tie inverter as 
> opposed to waiting until frequency shift is necessary.  A well-specified 
> relay can be highly reliable and not very expensive.
> 
> Thanks
> 
>> On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 11:26 AM, Glenn Burt <glenn.b...@glbcc.com> wrote:
>> An installer I have been working with here in southern VT has also 
>> repeatedly applied to become an installer with Tesla for powerwalls with no 
>> response.
>> I cannot in good conscience recommend their products based on their history 
>> and unresponsiveness in our area. 
>> They may be great for Puerto Rico, and now Australia, but have currently 
>> rated a thumbs down here. We are happy with the sonnen product, delivery and 
>> support.
>> 
>> Glenn
>> Sent from my 'smart' phone so please excuse spelling and typographical 
>> errors.
>> 
>> -- Original message--
>> From: Dave Tedeyan
>> Date: Tue, Feb 13, 2018 11:35 AM
>> To: RE-wrenches;
>> Cc:
>> Subject:Re: [RE-wrenches] experience with the Tesla Powerwall
>> 
>> I think that this may have come up before, but I do not remember there being 
>> a resolution:
>> Do you guys have any tips on becoming a Tesla dealer? We have people ask 
>> about it all the time, but we have not been able to get Tesla to respond. We 
>> have installed Sonnen, which is also a great system, but the up front 
>> expense scares many people away. We are located in upstate NY which may have 
>> something to do with it.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> Dave
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> Dave Tedeyan
>> Senior Engineer
>> 
>> Taitem Engineering, PC
>> 10 Verizon Lane, Lansing, NY 14882
>> Voice: (607) 930-3481 x6
>> www.taitem.com
>> 
>>> On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 10:36 AM, August Goers <aug...@luminalt.com> wrote:
>>> Marco,
>>> 
>>> Thanks for sharing, it is good to hear details from an installer who is 
>>> living with a Powerwall. We starting selling the Powerwall 2 in 2017 and 
>>> have worked up a large pipeline. We have about 20 installed so far, but are 
>>> still waiting on utility permission to operate which is taking a long time. 
>>> We have spent a good deal of time commissioning and testing each system. 
>>> For the most part, our experience has been good although the commissioning 
>>> software and internet connectivity features have been buggy. Hopefully 
>>> those are issues that will be ironed out by Tesla. Otherwise, we've had the 
>>> systems correctly operate in on-grid and off-grid modes with both Sol 
>>> aredge and SunPower Equinox AC coupled systems. 
>>> 
>>> We installed conventional lead acid battery backup systems for over 10 
>>> years and I can confidently say that Tesla's Powerwall and Gateway setup  
>>> is truly market-disruptive. The design flexibility of the Gateway setup, 
>>> the small size, minimal labor to install, and performance blow other 
>>> systems out of the water. I hope that other manufacturers are able to catch 
>>> up with this type of design. 
>>> 
>>> Best,
>>> 
>>> August
>>> 
>>> August Goers
>>> 
>>> Luminalt Energy Corporation
>>> 
>>> o: 415.641.4000
>>> 
>>> www.luminalt.com
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Sat, Feb 10, 2018 at 12:23 PM, Marco Mangelsdorf <ma...@pvthawaii.com> 
>>>> wrote:
>>>> Aloha Wrenches,
>>>> 
>>>> I thought I'd share my own experiences with the Po

Re: [RE-wrenches] experience with the Tesla Powerwall

[Mac Lewis]

Hi Wrenches,

I just wanted to report that some electronics will fail and burn up during
frequency shift.  We have an off-grid Sunny Island system (60-62 Hz
operating frequency) and we experienced sensitive electronics burning up
during these events.  Its been too long since this happened to tell you
exactly what burned up.  I think it was some HVAC controls.

If its possible, I'd suggest a relay that opens up the grid-tie inverter as
opposed to waiting until frequency shift is necessary.  A well-specified
relay can be highly reliable and not very expensive.

Thanks

On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 11:26 AM, Glenn Burt <glenn.b...@glbcc.com> wrote:

> An installer I have been working with here in southern VT has also
> repeatedly applied to become an installer with Tesla for powerwalls with no
> response.
> I cannot in good conscience recommend their products based on their
> history and unresponsiveness in our area.
> They may be great for Puerto Rico, and now Australia, but have currently
> rated a thumbs down here. We are happy with the sonnen product, delivery
> and support.
>
> *Glenn*
> *Sent from my 'smart' phone so please excuse spelling and typographical
> errors.*
>
> -- Original message--
> *From: *Dave Tedeyan
> *Date: *Tue, Feb 13, 2018 11:35 AM
> *To: *RE-wrenches;
> *Cc: *
> *Subject:*Re: [RE-wrenches] experience with the Tesla Powerwall
>
> I think that this may have come up before, but I do not remember there
> being a resolution:
> Do you guys have any tips on becoming a Tesla dealer? We have people ask
> about it all the time, but we have not been able to get Tesla to respond.
> We have installed Sonnen, which is also a great system, but the up front
> expense scares many people away. We are located in upstate NY which may
> have something to do with it.
>
> Cheers,
> Dave
>
>
> * --*
>
>
> *Dave Tedeyan*
> *Senior Engineer*
>
> *Taitem Engineering, PC*
> 10 Verizon Lane, Lansing, NY 14882
> Voice: (607) 930-3481 x6
> <http://www.taitem.com/>www.taitem.com
>
> On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 10:36 AM, August Goers <aug...@luminalt.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Marco,
>>
>> Thanks for sharing, it is good to hear details from an installer who is
>> living with a Powerwall. We starting selling the Powerwall 2 in 2017 and
>> have worked up a large pipeline. We have about 20 installed so far, but are
>> still waiting on utility permission to operate which is taking a long time.
>> We have spent a good deal of time commissioning and testing each system.
>> For the most part, our experience has been good although the commissioning
>> software and internet connectivity features have been buggy. Hopefully
>> those are issues that will be ironed out by Tesla. Otherwise, we've had the
>> systems correctly operate in on-grid and off-grid modes with both Sol
>> aredge and SunPower Equinox AC coupled systems.
>>
>> We installed conventional lead acid battery backup systems for over 10
>> years and I can confidently say that Tesla's Powerwall and Gateway setup
>> is truly market-disruptive. The design flexibility of the Gateway setup,
>> the small size, minimal labor to install, and performance blow other
>> systems out of the water. I hope that other manufacturers are able to catch
>> up with this type of design.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> August
>>
>> *August Goers*
>>
>> Luminalt Energy Corporation
>>
>> o: 415.641.4000 <(415)%20641-4000>
>>
>> www.luminalt.com
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Feb 10, 2018 at 12:23 PM, Marco Mangelsdorf <ma...@pvthawaii.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Aloha Wrenches,*
>>>
>>>
>>> *I thought I'd share my own experiences with the Powerwall as my company
>>> is now launching a program to add PW to existing NEM systems since the vast
>>> majority of them do not have storage which means that if the grid goes
>>> down, so does their PV system.  (With the exception of the SMA SB line and
>>> their Secure Power Supply.)*
>>>
>>>
>>> *And no, I'm not a shill or toadie for Tesla.*
>>>
>>>
>>> *marco *
>>>
>>> *I wanted to walk my own talk.  Before we launched adding Powerwall to
>>> existing Net Energy Metered solar electric systems, I wanted to make sure
>>> that what was promised on paper would work in the real world.  I added
>>> Powerwall to my NEM system last year and have been monitoring and testing
>>> it during normal grid-on and grid outage modes.  And I’m very pleased to
>>> report that Powerwall has performed f

Re: [RE-wrenches] Experience with the Tesla Powerwall

[August Goers]

The solar self consumption mode is a requirement in order to qualify for
the SGIP incentive for PV-paired systems. For residential systems, the
storage system must discharge a minimum of 52 full cycles per year which
equates to once per week on average.

In addition, solar self consumption mode can save a little money by a)
reducing the non-bypassable charges associated with NEM2

and b) potentially reduce some Time Of Use (TOU) peak rate energy
consumption. It's a particularly good choice for folks who have electric
vehicles on the EV
 rate
where the peak rates go to 9:00 pm and part peak goes to 11:00 pm.
Generally speaking, we're seeing TOU peak periods shift later and later in
California.

August

On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 11:34 AM, Marco Mangelsdorf 
wrote:

> Is there a financial benefit to the customer-generator to choose the
> self-powered mode, August?
>
> marco
>
> On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, August Goers  wrote:
>
>> Yes, PG The Self Generation Incentive Program (SGIP) created a flood
>> of applications and PG is having a hard time keeping up. Hopefully it
>> will get easier.
>>
>> We are enabling self-consumption and backup modes. The Powerwall charges
>> daily from the solar and then discharges to a owner-set minimum reserve
>> capacity.
>>
>> August
>>
>> *August*
>>
>> Luminalt Energy Corporation
>>
>> o: 415.641.4000 <(415)%20641-4000>
>>
>> www.luminalt.com
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 8:30 AM, Marco Mangelsdorf 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hey August.
>>>
>>> By utility I assume that you are talking about PG
>>>
>>> What's the hang up?  And are running the PWs in back-up power only mode
>>> or daily cycling mode?
>>>
>>> In either case, the addition of PW does not add to the generating
>>> capacity of the solar facility.
>>>
>>> marco
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, August Goers  wrote:
>>>
 Marco,

 Thanks for sharing, it is good to hear details from an installer who is
 living with a Powerwall. We starting selling the Powerwall 2 in 2017 and
 have worked up a large pipeline. We have about 20 installed so far, but are
 still waiting on utility permission to operate which is taking a long time.
 We have spent a good deal of time commissioning and testing each system.
 For the most part, our experience has been good although the commissioning
 software and internet connectivity features have been buggy. Hopefully
 those are issues that will be ironed out by Tesla. Otherwise, we've had the
 systems correctly operate in on-grid and off-grid modes with both Solaredge
 and SunPower Equinox AC coupled systems.

 We installed conventional lead acid battery backup systems for over 10
 years and I can confidently say that Tesla's Powerwall and Gateway setup
 is truly market-disruptive. The design flexibility of the Gateway setup,
 the small size, minimal labor to install, and performance blow other
 systems out of the water. I hope that other manufacturers are able to catch
 up with this type of design.

 Best,

 August

 *August Goers*

 Luminalt Energy Corporation

 o: 415.641.4000 <(415)%20641-4000>

 www.luminalt.com



 On Sat, Feb 10, 2018 at 12:23 PM, Marco Mangelsdorf <
 ma...@pvthawaii.com> wrote:

>
>
> *Aloha Wrenches,*
>
>
> *I thought I'd share my own experiences with the Powerwall as my
> company is now launching a program to add PW to existing NEM systems since
> the vast majority of them do not have storage which means that if the grid
> goes down, so does their PV system.  (With the exception of the SMA SB 
> line
> and their Secure Power Supply.)*
>
>
> *And no, I'm not a shill or toadie for Tesla.*
>
>
> *marco *
>
> *I wanted to walk my own talk.  Before we launched adding Powerwall to
> existing Net Energy Metered solar electric systems, I wanted to make sure
> that what was promised on paper would work in the real world.  I added
> Powerwall to my NEM system last year and have been monitoring and testing
> it during normal grid-on and grid outage modes.  And I’m very pleased to
> report that Powerwall has performed flawlessly and as expected.*
>
>
>
> *When used in a NEM system, Powerwall is programmed to be in “Backup”
> mode.  When utility power is on, Powerwall stands ready in a full state of
> charge for any power outage.  During normal grid-on conditions, my 
> Powerall
> takes about .6 kilowatt-hours every other day to stay fully charged.  Over

Re: [RE-wrenches] Experience with the Tesla Powerwall

[Marco Mangelsdorf]

Is there a financial benefit to the customer-generator to choose the
self-powered mode, August?

marco

On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, August Goers  wrote:

> Yes, PG The Self Generation Incentive Program (SGIP) created a flood of
> applications and PG is having a hard time keeping up. Hopefully it will
> get easier.
>
> We are enabling self-consumption and backup modes. The Powerwall charges
> daily from the solar and then discharges to a owner-set minimum reserve
> capacity.
>
> August
>
> *August*
>
> Luminalt Energy Corporation
>
> o: 415.641.4000
>
> www.luminalt.com
>
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 8:30 AM, Marco Mangelsdorf 
> wrote:
>
>> Hey August.
>>
>> By utility I assume that you are talking about PG
>>
>> What's the hang up?  And are running the PWs in back-up power only mode
>> or daily cycling mode?
>>
>> In either case, the addition of PW does not add to the generating
>> capacity of the solar facility.
>>
>> marco
>>
>> On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, August Goers  wrote:
>>
>>> Marco,
>>>
>>> Thanks for sharing, it is good to hear details from an installer who is
>>> living with a Powerwall. We starting selling the Powerwall 2 in 2017 and
>>> have worked up a large pipeline. We have about 20 installed so far, but are
>>> still waiting on utility permission to operate which is taking a long time.
>>> We have spent a good deal of time commissioning and testing each system.
>>> For the most part, our experience has been good although the commissioning
>>> software and internet connectivity features have been buggy. Hopefully
>>> those are issues that will be ironed out by Tesla. Otherwise, we've had the
>>> systems correctly operate in on-grid and off-grid modes with both Solaredge
>>> and SunPower Equinox AC coupled systems.
>>>
>>> We installed conventional lead acid battery backup systems for over 10
>>> years and I can confidently say that Tesla's Powerwall and Gateway setup
>>> is truly market-disruptive. The design flexibility of the Gateway setup,
>>> the small size, minimal labor to install, and performance blow other
>>> systems out of the water. I hope that other manufacturers are able to catch
>>> up with this type of design.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> August
>>>
>>> *August Goers*
>>>
>>> Luminalt Energy Corporation
>>>
>>> o: 415.641.4000 <(415)%20641-4000>
>>>
>>> www.luminalt.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Feb 10, 2018 at 12:23 PM, Marco Mangelsdorf >> > wrote:
>>>


 *Aloha Wrenches,*


 *I thought I'd share my own experiences with the Powerwall as my
 company is now launching a program to add PW to existing NEM systems since
 the vast majority of them do not have storage which means that if the grid
 goes down, so does their PV system.  (With the exception of the SMA SB line
 and their Secure Power Supply.)*


 *And no, I'm not a shill or toadie for Tesla.*


 *marco *

 *I wanted to walk my own talk.  Before we launched adding Powerwall to
 existing Net Energy Metered solar electric systems, I wanted to make sure
 that what was promised on paper would work in the real world.  I added
 Powerwall to my NEM system last year and have been monitoring and testing
 it during normal grid-on and grid outage modes.  And I’m very pleased to
 report that Powerwall has performed flawlessly and as expected.*



 *When used in a NEM system, Powerwall is programmed to be in “Backup”
 mode.  When utility power is on, Powerwall stands ready in a full state of
 charge for any power outage.  During normal grid-on conditions, my Powerall
 takes about .6 kilowatt-hours every other day to stay fully charged.  Over
 the course of the month, this Powerwall’s electricity consumption comes to
 about 9 kWhs or about $3/month at the current HELCO R rate.*



 *I have turned the utility power off to my home on a number of
 occasions in order to experience how Powerwall would perform in a simulated
 grid outage.  When the grid goes down, my house effectively becomes a
 self-generating micro-grid.  That is, my photovoltaic system (solar modules
 and inverters) and Powerwall (battery storage and integrated inverter) form
 a power grid with energy being created and stored and then consumed by my
 electric loads.*



 *Several things I noted from my simulated grid outages:*

 *· I purposefully overloaded Powerwall by turning on my
 electric dryer and electric oven at the same time.  As expected, since the
 maximum output of Powerwall is 5 kilowatts, it shutdown.  Meaning that all
 the power in my house went off.  Within seconds, Powerwall reset itself and
 the power came back on, with the dryer and oven having shut down after the
 power went off.  If power does not come back on after your Powerwall trips
 off, you 

Re: [RE-wrenches] Experience with the Tesla Powerwall

[August Goers]

Yes, PG The Self Generation Incentive Program (SGIP) created a flood of
applications and PG is having a hard time keeping up. Hopefully it will
get easier.

We are enabling self-consumption and backup modes. The Powerwall charges
daily from the solar and then discharges to a owner-set minimum reserve
capacity.

August

*August*

Luminalt Energy Corporation

o: 415.641.4000

www.luminalt.com



On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 8:30 AM, Marco Mangelsdorf 
wrote:

> Hey August.
>
> By utility I assume that you are talking about PG
>
> What's the hang up?  And are running the PWs in back-up power only mode or
> daily cycling mode?
>
> In either case, the addition of PW does not add to the generating capacity
> of the solar facility.
>
> marco
>
> On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, August Goers  wrote:
>
>> Marco,
>>
>> Thanks for sharing, it is good to hear details from an installer who is
>> living with a Powerwall. We starting selling the Powerwall 2 in 2017 and
>> have worked up a large pipeline. We have about 20 installed so far, but are
>> still waiting on utility permission to operate which is taking a long time.
>> We have spent a good deal of time commissioning and testing each system.
>> For the most part, our experience has been good although the commissioning
>> software and internet connectivity features have been buggy. Hopefully
>> those are issues that will be ironed out by Tesla. Otherwise, we've had the
>> systems correctly operate in on-grid and off-grid modes with both Solaredge
>> and SunPower Equinox AC coupled systems.
>>
>> We installed conventional lead acid battery backup systems for over 10
>> years and I can confidently say that Tesla's Powerwall and Gateway setup
>> is truly market-disruptive. The design flexibility of the Gateway setup,
>> the small size, minimal labor to install, and performance blow other
>> systems out of the water. I hope that other manufacturers are able to catch
>> up with this type of design.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> August
>>
>> *August Goers*
>>
>> Luminalt Energy Corporation
>>
>> o: 415.641.4000 <(415)%20641-4000>
>>
>> www.luminalt.com
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Feb 10, 2018 at 12:23 PM, Marco Mangelsdorf 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Aloha Wrenches,*
>>>
>>>
>>> *I thought I'd share my own experiences with the Powerwall as my company
>>> is now launching a program to add PW to existing NEM systems since the vast
>>> majority of them do not have storage which means that if the grid goes
>>> down, so does their PV system.  (With the exception of the SMA SB line and
>>> their Secure Power Supply.)*
>>>
>>>
>>> *And no, I'm not a shill or toadie for Tesla.*
>>>
>>>
>>> *marco *
>>>
>>> *I wanted to walk my own talk.  Before we launched adding Powerwall to
>>> existing Net Energy Metered solar electric systems, I wanted to make sure
>>> that what was promised on paper would work in the real world.  I added
>>> Powerwall to my NEM system last year and have been monitoring and testing
>>> it during normal grid-on and grid outage modes.  And I’m very pleased to
>>> report that Powerwall has performed flawlessly and as expected.*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *When used in a NEM system, Powerwall is programmed to be in “Backup”
>>> mode.  When utility power is on, Powerwall stands ready in a full state of
>>> charge for any power outage.  During normal grid-on conditions, my Powerall
>>> takes about .6 kilowatt-hours every other day to stay fully charged.  Over
>>> the course of the month, this Powerwall’s electricity consumption comes to
>>> about 9 kWhs or about $3/month at the current HELCO R rate.*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *I have turned the utility power off to my home on a number of occasions
>>> in order to experience how Powerwall would perform in a simulated grid
>>> outage.  When the grid goes down, my house effectively becomes a
>>> self-generating micro-grid.  That is, my photovoltaic system (solar modules
>>> and inverters) and Powerwall (battery storage and integrated inverter) form
>>> a power grid with energy being created and stored and then consumed by my
>>> electric loads.*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Several things I noted from my simulated grid outages:*
>>>
>>> *· I purposefully overloaded Powerwall by turning on my electric
>>> dryer and electric oven at the same time.  As expected, since the maximum
>>> output of Powerwall is 5 kilowatts, it shutdown.  Meaning that all the
>>> power in my house went off.  Within seconds, Powerwall reset itself and the
>>> power came back on, with the dryer and oven having shut down after the
>>> power went off.  If power does not come back on after your Powerwall trips
>>> off, you will need to turn off those high-power loads and reset Powerwall
>>> by turning its black on-off switch, located on the right side of the unit,
>>> from on to off and then on again.  The important takeaway: during a utility
>>> outage, you will need to be careful as far as operating heavy electric
>>> loads, 

[RE-wrenches] Experience with the Tesla Powerwall

[Marco Mangelsdorf]

Hey August.

By utility I assume that you are talking about PG

What's the hang up?  And are running the PWs in back-up power only mode or
daily cycling mode?

In either case, the addition of PW does not add to the generating capacity
of the solar facility.

marco

On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, August Goers  wrote:

> Marco,
>
> Thanks for sharing, it is good to hear details from an installer who is
> living with a Powerwall. We starting selling the Powerwall 2 in 2017 and
> have worked up a large pipeline. We have about 20 installed so far, but are
> still waiting on utility permission to operate which is taking a long time.
> We have spent a good deal of time commissioning and testing each system.
> For the most part, our experience has been good although the commissioning
> software and internet connectivity features have been buggy. Hopefully
> those are issues that will be ironed out by Tesla. Otherwise, we've had the
> systems correctly operate in on-grid and off-grid modes with both Solaredge
> and SunPower Equinox AC coupled systems.
>
> We installed conventional lead acid battery backup systems for over 10
> years and I can confidently say that Tesla's Powerwall and Gateway setup
> is truly market-disruptive. The design flexibility of the Gateway setup,
> the small size, minimal labor to install, and performance blow other
> systems out of the water. I hope that other manufacturers are able to catch
> up with this type of design.
>
> Best,
>
> August
>
> *August Goers*
>
> Luminalt Energy Corporation
>
> o: 415.641.4000
>
> www.luminalt.com
>
>
>
> On Sat, Feb 10, 2018 at 12:23 PM, Marco Mangelsdorf 
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> *Aloha Wrenches,*
>>
>>
>> *I thought I'd share my own experiences with the Powerwall as my company
>> is now launching a program to add PW to existing NEM systems since the vast
>> majority of them do not have storage which means that if the grid goes
>> down, so does their PV system.  (With the exception of the SMA SB line and
>> their Secure Power Supply.)*
>>
>>
>> *And no, I'm not a shill or toadie for Tesla.*
>>
>>
>> *marco *
>>
>> *I wanted to walk my own talk.  Before we launched adding Powerwall to
>> existing Net Energy Metered solar electric systems, I wanted to make sure
>> that what was promised on paper would work in the real world.  I added
>> Powerwall to my NEM system last year and have been monitoring and testing
>> it during normal grid-on and grid outage modes.  And I’m very pleased to
>> report that Powerwall has performed flawlessly and as expected.*
>>
>>
>>
>> *When used in a NEM system, Powerwall is programmed to be in “Backup”
>> mode.  When utility power is on, Powerwall stands ready in a full state of
>> charge for any power outage.  During normal grid-on conditions, my Powerall
>> takes about .6 kilowatt-hours every other day to stay fully charged.  Over
>> the course of the month, this Powerwall’s electricity consumption comes to
>> about 9 kWhs or about $3/month at the current HELCO R rate.*
>>
>>
>>
>> *I have turned the utility power off to my home on a number of occasions
>> in order to experience how Powerwall would perform in a simulated grid
>> outage.  When the grid goes down, my house effectively becomes a
>> self-generating micro-grid.  That is, my photovoltaic system (solar modules
>> and inverters) and Powerwall (battery storage and integrated inverter) form
>> a power grid with energy being created and stored and then consumed by my
>> electric loads.*
>>
>>
>>
>> *Several things I noted from my simulated grid outages:*
>>
>> *· I purposefully overloaded Powerwall by turning on my electric
>> dryer and electric oven at the same time.  As expected, since the maximum
>> output of Powerwall is 5 kilowatts, it shutdown.  Meaning that all the
>> power in my house went off.  Within seconds, Powerwall reset itself and the
>> power came back on, with the dryer and oven having shut down after the
>> power went off.  If power does not come back on after your Powerwall trips
>> off, you will need to turn off those high-power loads and reset Powerwall
>> by turning its black on-off switch, located on the right side of the unit,
>> from on to off and then on again.  The important takeaway: during a utility
>> outage, you will need to be careful as far as operating heavy electric
>> loads, especially 240 volt appliances both from the perspective of
>> overloading your Powerwall and rapidly drawing down the battery capacity,
>> especially at night.*
>>
>> *· The magic of frequency shifting.  Without getting into too
>> much techno-talk, this is the story of frequency shifting.  Normal utility
>> frequency is 60 hertz (Hz).  PV inverters require the utility frequency to
>> be at or near 60 Hz in order to operate.  During a grid outage, Powerwall
>> effectively establishes grid quality power (120/240 volts at 60 Hz),
>> allowing a micro grid to operate with solar providing power to your house
>> 

Re: [RE-wrenches] experience with the Tesla Powerwall

[Glenn Burt]

An installer I have been working with here in southern VT has also repeatedly 
applied to become an installer with Tesla for powerwalls with no response.I 
cannot in good conscience recommend their products based on their history and 
unresponsiveness in our area. They may be great for Puerto Rico, and now 
Australia, but have currently rated a thumbs down here. We are happy with the 
sonnen product, delivery and support.
GlennSent from my 'smart' phone so please excuse spelling and typographical 
errors.
-- Original message--From: Dave TedeyanDate: Tue, Feb 13, 2018 11:35 
AMTo: RE-wrenches;Cc: Subject:Re: [RE-wrenches] experience with the Tesla 
Powerwall
I think that this may have come up before, but I do not remember there being a 
resolution:Do you guys have any tips on becoming a Tesla dealer? We have people 
ask about it all the time, but we have not been able to get Tesla to respond. 
We have installed Sonnen, which is also a great system, but the up front 
expense scares many people away. We are located in upstate NY which may have 
something to do with it.
Cheers,Dave

--
Dave Tedeyan
Senior Engineer
Taitem Engineering, PC10 Verizon Lane, Lansing, NY 14882Voice: (607) 930-3481 
x6www.taitem.com

On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 10:36 AM, August Goers <aug...@luminalt.com> wrote:
Marco,
Thanks for sharing, it is good to hear details from an installer who is living 
with a Powerwall. We starting selling the Powerwall 2 in 2017 and have worked 
up a large pipeline. We have about 20 installed so far, but are still waiting 
on utility permission to operate which is taking a long time. We have spent a 
good deal of time commissioning and testing each system. For the most part, our 
experience has been good although the commissioning software and internet 
connectivity features have been buggy. Hopefully those are issues that will be 
ironed out by Tesla. Otherwise, we've had the systems correctly operate in 
on-grid and off-grid modes with both Solaredge and SunPower Equinox AC coupled 
systems. 
We installed conventional lead acid battery backup systems for over 10 years 
and I can confidently say that Tesla's Powerwall and Gateway setup  is truly 
market-disruptive. The design flexibility of the Gateway setup, the small size, 
minimal labor to install, and performance blow other systems out of the water. 
I hope that other manufacturers are able to catch up with this type of design. 
Best,
August
August GoersLuminalt Energy Corporationo: 415.641.4000

www.luminalt.com

 

On Sat, Feb 10, 2018 at 12:23 PM, Marco Mangelsdorf <ma...@pvthawaii.com> wrote:
Aloha Wrenches,

I thought I'd share my own experiences with the Powerwall as my company is now 
launching a program to add PW to existing NEM systems since the vast majority 
of them do not have storage which means that if the grid goes down, so does 
their PV system.  (With the exception of the SMA SB line and their Secure Power 
Supply.)

And no, I'm not a shill or toadie for Tesla.

marco



I wanted to walk my own
talk.  Before we launched adding
Powerwall to existing Net Energy Metered solar electric systems, I wanted
to make sure that what was promised on paper would work in the real world.  I 
added Powerwall to my NEM system
last year and have been monitoring and testing it during normal grid-on and
grid outage modes.  And I’m very pleased
to report that Powerwall has performed flawlessly and as expected.

 

When used in a NEM
system, Powerwall is programmed to be in “Backup” mode.  When utility power is 
on, Powerwall
stands ready in a full state of charge for any power outage.  During normal 
grid-on conditions, my Powerall
takes about .6 kilowatt-hours every other day to stay fully charged.  Over the 
course of the month, this Powerwall’s
electricity consumption comes to about 9 kWhs or about $3/month at the current
HELCO R rate.

 

I have turned the utility
power off to my home on a number of occasions in order to experience how 
Powerwall
would perform in a simulated grid outage. 
When the grid goes down, my house effectively becomes a self-generating
micro-grid.  That is, my photovoltaic
system (solar modules and inverters) and Powerwall (battery storage and
integrated inverter) form a power grid with energy being created and stored and
then consumed by my electric loads.

 

Several things I noted
from my simulated grid outages:

·
I purposefully overloaded Powerwall by
turning on my electric dryer and electric oven at the same time.  As expected, 
since the maximum output of Powerwall
is 5 kilowatts, it shutdown.  Meaning
that all the power in my house went off. 
Within seconds, Powerwall reset itself and the power came back
on, with the dryer and oven having shut down after the power went off.  If 
power does not come back on after your Powerwall
trips off, you will need to turn off those high-power loads and reset Powerwall
by turning its black on-off switch, located on the right side of the unit, fr

Re: [RE-wrenches] experience with the Tesla Powerwall

[August Goers]

Hi Dave -

I keep hearing that Tesla is having a hard time keeping up with demand, so
they may not be very motivated to add more dealers at this point. Just
speculation.

Yes, the max continuous and peak powers add as you add up as you add more
powerwalls. Energy capacity adds too. Yes, Powerwall has liquid cooling - I
don't know what type of fluid it is. According to the Powerwall newsletter
I received, the Powerwall will heat itself with the liquid cooling/heating
system to deal with sub-freezing conditions. This will use some energy.

August

On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 10:14 AM, Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar <
offgridso...@sti.net> wrote:

> The AC powerwall has cooling, it is a liquid? Anyone know if the 5kw
> continuous and 7kw peak limits change with multiple units?
>
>
> Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
> "we go where powerlines don't"
> http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
> e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
> text 209 813 0060
>
> > I think that this may have come up before, but I do not remember there
> > being a resolution:
> > Do you guys have any tips on becoming a Tesla dealer? We have people ask
> > about it all the time, but we have not been able to get Tesla to respond.
> > We have installed Sonnen, which is also a great system, but the up front
> > expense scares many people away. We are located in upstate NY which may
> > have something to do with it.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Dave
> >
> >
> > *--*
> >
> >
> > *Dave Tedeyan*
> > *Senior Engineer*
> >
> > *Taitem Engineering, PC*
> > 10 Verizon Lane, Lansing, NY 14882
> > Voice: (607) 930-3481 x6
> > www.taitem.com
> >
> > On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 10:36 AM, August Goers 
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Marco,
> >>
> >> Thanks for sharing, it is good to hear details from an installer who is
> >> living with a Powerwall. We starting selling the Powerwall 2 in 2017 and
> >> have worked up a large pipeline. We have about 20 installed so far, but
> >> are
> >> still waiting on utility permission to operate which is taking a long
> >> time.
> >> We have spent a good deal of time commissioning and testing each system.
> >> For the most part, our experience has been good although the
> >> commissioning
> >> software and internet connectivity features have been buggy. Hopefully
> >> those are issues that will be ironed out by Tesla. Otherwise, we've had
> >> the
> >> systems correctly operate in on-grid and off-grid modes with both
> >> Solaredge
> >> and SunPower Equinox AC coupled systems.
> >>
> >> We installed conventional lead acid battery backup systems for over 10
> >> years and I can confidently say that Tesla's Powerwall and Gateway setup
> >> is truly market-disruptive. The design flexibility of the Gateway setup,
> >> the small size, minimal labor to install, and performance blow other
> >> systems out of the water. I hope that other manufacturers are able to
> >> catch
> >> up with this type of design.
> >>
> >> Best,
> >>
> >> August
> >>
> >> *August Goers*
> >>
> >> Luminalt Energy Corporation
> >>
> >> o: 415.641.4000 <(415)%20641-4000>
> >>
> >> www.luminalt.com
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Sat, Feb 10, 2018 at 12:23 PM, Marco Mangelsdorf
> >> 
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> *Aloha Wrenches,*
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> *I thought I'd share my own experiences with the Powerwall as my
> >>> company
> >>> is now launching a program to add PW to existing NEM systems since the
> >>> vast
> >>> majority of them do not have storage which means that if the grid goes
> >>> down, so does their PV system.  (With the exception of the SMA SB line
> >>> and
> >>> their Secure Power Supply.)*
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> *And no, I'm not a shill or toadie for Tesla.*
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> *marco *
> >>>
> >>> *I wanted to walk my own talk.  Before we launched adding Powerwall to
> >>> existing Net Energy Metered solar electric systems, I wanted to make
> >>> sure
> >>> that what was promised on paper would work in the real world.  I added
> >>> Powerwall to my NEM system last year and have been monitoring and
> >>> testing
> >>> it during normal grid-on and grid outage modes.  And I’m very pleased
> >>> to
> >>> report that Powerwall has performed flawlessly and as expected.*
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> *When used in a NEM system, Powerwall is programmed to be in
> >>> “Backupâ€
> >>> mode.  When utility power is on, Powerwall stands ready in a full state
> >>> of
> >>> charge for any power outage.  During normal grid-on conditions, my
> >>> Powerall
> >>> takes about .6 kilowatt-hours every other day to stay fully charged.
> >>> Over
> >>> the course of the month, this Powerwall’s electricity consumption
> >>> comes to
> >>> about 9 kWhs or about $3/month at the current HELCO R rate.*
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> *I have turned the utility power off to my home on a number of
> >>> occasions
> >>> in order to experience how Powerwall would perform in a simulated grid
> >>> outage.  When the grid goes down, my house effectively becomes a
> >>> self-generating 

Re: [RE-wrenches] experience with the Tesla Powerwall

[gary easton]

I have also not gotten a response from Tesla.  I have been encouraging all
the powerwall calls I get to go with LG.

On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 11:35 AM, Dave Tedeyan  wrote:

> I think that this may have come up before, but I do not remember there
> being a resolution:
> Do you guys have any tips on becoming a Tesla dealer? We have people ask
> about it all the time, but we have not been able to get Tesla to respond.
> We have installed Sonnen, which is also a great system, but the up front
> expense scares many people away. We are located in upstate NY which may
> have something to do with it.
>
> Cheers,
> Dave
>
>
> *--*
>
>
> *Dave Tedeyan*
> *Senior Engineer*
>
> *Taitem Engineering, PC*
> 10 Verizon Lane, Lansing, NY 14882
> Voice: (607) 930-3481 x6
> www.taitem.com
>
> On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 10:36 AM, August Goers 
> wrote:
>
>> Marco,
>>
>> Thanks for sharing, it is good to hear details from an installer who is
>> living with a Powerwall. We starting selling the Powerwall 2 in 2017 and
>> have worked up a large pipeline. We have about 20 installed so far, but are
>> still waiting on utility permission to operate which is taking a long time.
>> We have spent a good deal of time commissioning and testing each system.
>> For the most part, our experience has been good although the commissioning
>> software and internet connectivity features have been buggy. Hopefully
>> those are issues that will be ironed out by Tesla. Otherwise, we've had the
>> systems correctly operate in on-grid and off-grid modes with both Solaredge
>> and SunPower Equinox AC coupled systems.
>>
>> We installed conventional lead acid battery backup systems for over 10
>> years and I can confidently say that Tesla's Powerwall and Gateway setup
>> is truly market-disruptive. The design flexibility of the Gateway setup,
>> the small size, minimal labor to install, and performance blow other
>> systems out of the water. I hope that other manufacturers are able to catch
>> up with this type of design.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> August
>>
>> *August Goers*
>>
>> Luminalt Energy Corporation
>>
>> o: 415.641.4000 <(415)%20641-4000>
>>
>> www.luminalt.com
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Feb 10, 2018 at 12:23 PM, Marco Mangelsdorf 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Aloha Wrenches,*
>>>
>>>
>>> *I thought I'd share my own experiences with the Powerwall as my company
>>> is now launching a program to add PW to existing NEM systems since the vast
>>> majority of them do not have storage which means that if the grid goes
>>> down, so does their PV system.  (With the exception of the SMA SB line and
>>> their Secure Power Supply.)*
>>>
>>>
>>> *And no, I'm not a shill or toadie for Tesla.*
>>>
>>>
>>> *marco *
>>>
>>> *I wanted to walk my own talk.  Before we launched adding Powerwall to
>>> existing Net Energy Metered solar electric systems, I wanted to make sure
>>> that what was promised on paper would work in the real world.  I added
>>> Powerwall to my NEM system last year and have been monitoring and testing
>>> it during normal grid-on and grid outage modes.  And I’m very pleased to
>>> report that Powerwall has performed flawlessly and as expected.*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *When used in a NEM system, Powerwall is programmed to be in “Backup”
>>> mode.  When utility power is on, Powerwall stands ready in a full state of
>>> charge for any power outage.  During normal grid-on conditions, my Powerall
>>> takes about .6 kilowatt-hours every other day to stay fully charged.  Over
>>> the course of the month, this Powerwall’s electricity consumption comes to
>>> about 9 kWhs or about $3/month at the current HELCO R rate.*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *I have turned the utility power off to my home on a number of occasions
>>> in order to experience how Powerwall would perform in a simulated grid
>>> outage.  When the grid goes down, my house effectively becomes a
>>> self-generating micro-grid.  That is, my photovoltaic system (solar modules
>>> and inverters) and Powerwall (battery storage and integrated inverter) form
>>> a power grid with energy being created and stored and then consumed by my
>>> electric loads.*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Several things I noted from my simulated grid outages:*
>>>
>>> *· I purposefully overloaded Powerwall by turning on my electric
>>> dryer and electric oven at the same time.  As expected, since the maximum
>>> output of Powerwall is 5 kilowatts, it shutdown.  Meaning that all the
>>> power in my house went off.  Within seconds, Powerwall reset itself and the
>>> power came back on, with the dryer and oven having shut down after the
>>> power went off.  If power does not come back on after your Powerwall trips
>>> off, you will need to turn off those high-power loads and reset Powerwall
>>> by turning its black on-off switch, located on the right side of the unit,
>>> from on to off and then on again.  The important takeaway: during a utility
>>> outage, you will need to be careful as far as 

Re: [RE-wrenches] experience with the Tesla Powerwall

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar]

The AC powerwall has cooling, it is a liquid? Anyone know if the 5kw
continuous and 7kw peak limits change with multiple units?


Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

> I think that this may have come up before, but I do not remember there
> being a resolution:
> Do you guys have any tips on becoming a Tesla dealer? We have people ask
> about it all the time, but we have not been able to get Tesla to respond.
> We have installed Sonnen, which is also a great system, but the up front
> expense scares many people away. We are located in upstate NY which may
> have something to do with it.
>
> Cheers,
> Dave
>
>
> *--*
>
>
> *Dave Tedeyan*
> *Senior Engineer*
>
> *Taitem Engineering, PC*
> 10 Verizon Lane, Lansing, NY 14882
> Voice: (607) 930-3481 x6
> www.taitem.com
>
> On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 10:36 AM, August Goers 
> wrote:
>
>> Marco,
>>
>> Thanks for sharing, it is good to hear details from an installer who is
>> living with a Powerwall. We starting selling the Powerwall 2 in 2017 and
>> have worked up a large pipeline. We have about 20 installed so far, but
>> are
>> still waiting on utility permission to operate which is taking a long
>> time.
>> We have spent a good deal of time commissioning and testing each system.
>> For the most part, our experience has been good although the
>> commissioning
>> software and internet connectivity features have been buggy. Hopefully
>> those are issues that will be ironed out by Tesla. Otherwise, we've had
>> the
>> systems correctly operate in on-grid and off-grid modes with both
>> Solaredge
>> and SunPower Equinox AC coupled systems.
>>
>> We installed conventional lead acid battery backup systems for over 10
>> years and I can confidently say that Tesla's Powerwall and Gateway setup
>> is truly market-disruptive. The design flexibility of the Gateway setup,
>> the small size, minimal labor to install, and performance blow other
>> systems out of the water. I hope that other manufacturers are able to
>> catch
>> up with this type of design.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> August
>>
>> *August Goers*
>>
>> Luminalt Energy Corporation
>>
>> o: 415.641.4000 <(415)%20641-4000>
>>
>> www.luminalt.com
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Feb 10, 2018 at 12:23 PM, Marco Mangelsdorf
>> 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Aloha Wrenches,*
>>>
>>>
>>> *I thought I'd share my own experiences with the Powerwall as my
>>> company
>>> is now launching a program to add PW to existing NEM systems since the
>>> vast
>>> majority of them do not have storage which means that if the grid goes
>>> down, so does their PV system.  (With the exception of the SMA SB line
>>> and
>>> their Secure Power Supply.)*
>>>
>>>
>>> *And no, I'm not a shill or toadie for Tesla.*
>>>
>>>
>>> *marco *
>>>
>>> *I wanted to walk my own talk.  Before we launched adding Powerwall to
>>> existing Net Energy Metered solar electric systems, I wanted to make
>>> sure
>>> that what was promised on paper would work in the real world.  I added
>>> Powerwall to my NEM system last year and have been monitoring and
>>> testing
>>> it during normal grid-on and grid outage modes.  And I’m very pleased
>>> to
>>> report that Powerwall has performed flawlessly and as expected.*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *When used in a NEM system, Powerwall is programmed to be in
>>> “Backup”
>>> mode.  When utility power is on, Powerwall stands ready in a full state
>>> of
>>> charge for any power outage.  During normal grid-on conditions, my
>>> Powerall
>>> takes about .6 kilowatt-hours every other day to stay fully charged.
>>> Over
>>> the course of the month, this Powerwall’s electricity consumption
>>> comes to
>>> about 9 kWhs or about $3/month at the current HELCO R rate.*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *I have turned the utility power off to my home on a number of
>>> occasions
>>> in order to experience how Powerwall would perform in a simulated grid
>>> outage.  When the grid goes down, my house effectively becomes a
>>> self-generating micro-grid.  That is, my photovoltaic system (solar
>>> modules
>>> and inverters) and Powerwall (battery storage and integrated inverter)
>>> form
>>> a power grid with energy being created and stored and then consumed by
>>> my
>>> electric loads.*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Several things I noted from my simulated grid outages:*
>>>
>>> *· I purposefully overloaded Powerwall by turning on my
>>> electric
>>> dryer and electric oven at the same time.  As expected, since the
>>> maximum
>>> output of Powerwall is 5 kilowatts, it shutdown.  Meaning that all the
>>> power in my house went off.  Within seconds, Powerwall reset itself and
>>> the
>>> power came back on, with the dryer and oven having shut down after the
>>> power went off.  If power does not come back on after your Powerwall
>>> trips
>>> off, you will need to turn off those high-power loads and reset
>>> Powerwall
>>> by turning its 

Re: [RE-wrenches] experience with the Tesla Powerwall

[Dave Tedeyan]

I think that this may have come up before, but I do not remember there
being a resolution:
Do you guys have any tips on becoming a Tesla dealer? We have people ask
about it all the time, but we have not been able to get Tesla to respond.
We have installed Sonnen, which is also a great system, but the up front
expense scares many people away. We are located in upstate NY which may
have something to do with it.

Cheers,
Dave


*--*


*Dave Tedeyan*
*Senior Engineer*

*Taitem Engineering, PC*
10 Verizon Lane, Lansing, NY 14882
Voice: (607) 930-3481 x6
www.taitem.com

On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 10:36 AM, August Goers  wrote:

> Marco,
>
> Thanks for sharing, it is good to hear details from an installer who is
> living with a Powerwall. We starting selling the Powerwall 2 in 2017 and
> have worked up a large pipeline. We have about 20 installed so far, but are
> still waiting on utility permission to operate which is taking a long time.
> We have spent a good deal of time commissioning and testing each system.
> For the most part, our experience has been good although the commissioning
> software and internet connectivity features have been buggy. Hopefully
> those are issues that will be ironed out by Tesla. Otherwise, we've had the
> systems correctly operate in on-grid and off-grid modes with both Solaredge
> and SunPower Equinox AC coupled systems.
>
> We installed conventional lead acid battery backup systems for over 10
> years and I can confidently say that Tesla's Powerwall and Gateway setup
> is truly market-disruptive. The design flexibility of the Gateway setup,
> the small size, minimal labor to install, and performance blow other
> systems out of the water. I hope that other manufacturers are able to catch
> up with this type of design.
>
> Best,
>
> August
>
> *August Goers*
>
> Luminalt Energy Corporation
>
> o: 415.641.4000 <(415)%20641-4000>
>
> www.luminalt.com
>
>
>
> On Sat, Feb 10, 2018 at 12:23 PM, Marco Mangelsdorf 
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> *Aloha Wrenches,*
>>
>>
>> *I thought I'd share my own experiences with the Powerwall as my company
>> is now launching a program to add PW to existing NEM systems since the vast
>> majority of them do not have storage which means that if the grid goes
>> down, so does their PV system.  (With the exception of the SMA SB line and
>> their Secure Power Supply.)*
>>
>>
>> *And no, I'm not a shill or toadie for Tesla.*
>>
>>
>> *marco *
>>
>> *I wanted to walk my own talk.  Before we launched adding Powerwall to
>> existing Net Energy Metered solar electric systems, I wanted to make sure
>> that what was promised on paper would work in the real world.  I added
>> Powerwall to my NEM system last year and have been monitoring and testing
>> it during normal grid-on and grid outage modes.  And I’m very pleased to
>> report that Powerwall has performed flawlessly and as expected.*
>>
>>
>>
>> *When used in a NEM system, Powerwall is programmed to be in “Backup”
>> mode.  When utility power is on, Powerwall stands ready in a full state of
>> charge for any power outage.  During normal grid-on conditions, my Powerall
>> takes about .6 kilowatt-hours every other day to stay fully charged.  Over
>> the course of the month, this Powerwall’s electricity consumption comes to
>> about 9 kWhs or about $3/month at the current HELCO R rate.*
>>
>>
>>
>> *I have turned the utility power off to my home on a number of occasions
>> in order to experience how Powerwall would perform in a simulated grid
>> outage.  When the grid goes down, my house effectively becomes a
>> self-generating micro-grid.  That is, my photovoltaic system (solar modules
>> and inverters) and Powerwall (battery storage and integrated inverter) form
>> a power grid with energy being created and stored and then consumed by my
>> electric loads.*
>>
>>
>>
>> *Several things I noted from my simulated grid outages:*
>>
>> *· I purposefully overloaded Powerwall by turning on my electric
>> dryer and electric oven at the same time.  As expected, since the maximum
>> output of Powerwall is 5 kilowatts, it shutdown.  Meaning that all the
>> power in my house went off.  Within seconds, Powerwall reset itself and the
>> power came back on, with the dryer and oven having shut down after the
>> power went off.  If power does not come back on after your Powerwall trips
>> off, you will need to turn off those high-power loads and reset Powerwall
>> by turning its black on-off switch, located on the right side of the unit,
>> from on to off and then on again.  The important takeaway: during a utility
>> outage, you will need to be careful as far as operating heavy electric
>> loads, especially 240 volt appliances both from the perspective of
>> overloading your Powerwall and rapidly drawing down the battery capacity,
>> especially at night.*
>>
>> *· The magic of frequency shifting.  Without getting into too
>> much techno-talk, this is the story of frequency 

Re: [RE-wrenches] experience with the Tesla Powerwall

[penobscotsolar]

I would like to add my experience with Tesla so far.
We applied to be an installer in Maine more than a year ago. Beside
getting an initial email stating that they received our application, we
have not heard a word since. I have one client with a SolarEdge 7600
StorEdge who put a deposit down in March of 2017, with a prediction in his
acceptance letter of an April 2017 installation. Last week he asked for
his deposit back. He has gotten the run around from the company for a
year. I have not heard a word from them in my quest to be a Tesla
Powerwall installer.
Granted, this is in Maine, and we are not a high density state, but it
still would be professional for them to rely to experienced people who
want to install their product.
Again, as a qualifier, this is only my experience, but it is frustrating.

Daryl DeJoy
NABCEP Certified PV
Penobscot Solar Design
www.penobscotsolar.com
Island Solar
www.islandsolarbahamas.com


> Marco,
>
> Thanks for sharing, it is good to hear details from an installer who is
> living with a Powerwall. We starting selling the Powerwall 2 in 2017 and
> have worked up a large pipeline. We have about 20 installed so far, but
> are
> still waiting on utility permission to operate which is taking a long
> time.
> We have spent a good deal of time commissioning and testing each system.
> For the most part, our experience has been good although the commissioning
> software and internet connectivity features have been buggy. Hopefully
> those are issues that will be ironed out by Tesla. Otherwise, we've had
> the
> systems correctly operate in on-grid and off-grid modes with both
> Solaredge
> and SunPower Equinox AC coupled systems.
>
> We installed conventional lead acid battery backup systems for over 10
> years and I can confidently say that Tesla's Powerwall and Gateway setup
> is truly market-disruptive. The design flexibility of the Gateway setup,
> the small size, minimal labor to install, and performance blow other
> systems out of the water. I hope that other manufacturers are able to
> catch
> up with this type of design.
>
> Best,
>
> August
>
> *August Goers*
>
> Luminalt Energy Corporation
>
> o: 415.641.4000
>
> www.luminalt.com
>
>
>
> On Sat, Feb 10, 2018 at 12:23 PM, Marco Mangelsdorf 
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> *Aloha Wrenches,*
>>
>>
>> *I thought I'd share my own experiences with the Powerwall as my company
>> is now launching a program to add PW to existing NEM systems since the
>> vast
>> majority of them do not have storage which means that if the grid goes
>> down, so does their PV system.  (With the exception of the SMA SB line
>> and
>> their Secure Power Supply.)*
>>
>>
>> *And no, I'm not a shill or toadie for Tesla.*
>>
>>
>> *marco *
>>
>> *I wanted to walk my own talk.  Before we launched adding Powerwall to
>> existing Net Energy Metered solar electric systems, I wanted to make
>> sure
>> that what was promised on paper would work in the real world.  I added
>> Powerwall to my NEM system last year and have been monitoring and
>> testing
>> it during normal grid-on and grid outage modes.  And I’m very pleased
>> to
>> report that Powerwall has performed flawlessly and as expected.*
>>
>>
>>
>> *When used in a NEM system, Powerwall is programmed to be in
>> “Backup”
>> mode.  When utility power is on, Powerwall stands ready in a full state
>> of
>> charge for any power outage.  During normal grid-on conditions, my
>> Powerall
>> takes about .6 kilowatt-hours every other day to stay fully charged.
>> Over
>> the course of the month, this Powerwall’s electricity consumption
>> comes to
>> about 9 kWhs or about $3/month at the current HELCO R rate.*
>>
>>
>>
>> *I have turned the utility power off to my home on a number of occasions
>> in order to experience how Powerwall would perform in a simulated grid
>> outage.  When the grid goes down, my house effectively becomes a
>> self-generating micro-grid.  That is, my photovoltaic system (solar
>> modules
>> and inverters) and Powerwall (battery storage and integrated inverter)
>> form
>> a power grid with energy being created and stored and then consumed by
>> my
>> electric loads.*
>>
>>
>>
>> *Several things I noted from my simulated grid outages:*
>>
>> *· I purposefully overloaded Powerwall by turning on my
>> electric
>> dryer and electric oven at the same time.  As expected, since the
>> maximum
>> output of Powerwall is 5 kilowatts, it shutdown.  Meaning that all the
>> power in my house went off.  Within seconds, Powerwall reset itself and
>> the
>> power came back on, with the dryer and oven having shut down after the
>> power went off.  If power does not come back on after your Powerwall
>> trips
>> off, you will need to turn off those high-power loads and reset
>> Powerwall
>> by turning its black on-off switch, located on the right side of the
>> unit,
>> from on to off and then on again.  The important takeaway: during a
>> utility
>> outage, you will need to be 

Re: [RE-wrenches] experience with the Tesla Powerwall

[August Goers]

Marco,

Thanks for sharing, it is good to hear details from an installer who is
living with a Powerwall. We starting selling the Powerwall 2 in 2017 and
have worked up a large pipeline. We have about 20 installed so far, but are
still waiting on utility permission to operate which is taking a long time.
We have spent a good deal of time commissioning and testing each system.
For the most part, our experience has been good although the commissioning
software and internet connectivity features have been buggy. Hopefully
those are issues that will be ironed out by Tesla. Otherwise, we've had the
systems correctly operate in on-grid and off-grid modes with both Solaredge
and SunPower Equinox AC coupled systems.

We installed conventional lead acid battery backup systems for over 10
years and I can confidently say that Tesla's Powerwall and Gateway setup
is truly market-disruptive. The design flexibility of the Gateway setup,
the small size, minimal labor to install, and performance blow other
systems out of the water. I hope that other manufacturers are able to catch
up with this type of design.

Best,

August

*August Goers*

Luminalt Energy Corporation

o: 415.641.4000

www.luminalt.com



On Sat, Feb 10, 2018 at 12:23 PM, Marco Mangelsdorf 
wrote:

>
>
> *Aloha Wrenches,*
>
>
> *I thought I'd share my own experiences with the Powerwall as my company
> is now launching a program to add PW to existing NEM systems since the vast
> majority of them do not have storage which means that if the grid goes
> down, so does their PV system.  (With the exception of the SMA SB line and
> their Secure Power Supply.)*
>
>
> *And no, I'm not a shill or toadie for Tesla.*
>
>
> *marco *
>
> *I wanted to walk my own talk.  Before we launched adding Powerwall to
> existing Net Energy Metered solar electric systems, I wanted to make sure
> that what was promised on paper would work in the real world.  I added
> Powerwall to my NEM system last year and have been monitoring and testing
> it during normal grid-on and grid outage modes.  And I’m very pleased to
> report that Powerwall has performed flawlessly and as expected.*
>
>
>
> *When used in a NEM system, Powerwall is programmed to be in “Backup”
> mode.  When utility power is on, Powerwall stands ready in a full state of
> charge for any power outage.  During normal grid-on conditions, my Powerall
> takes about .6 kilowatt-hours every other day to stay fully charged.  Over
> the course of the month, this Powerwall’s electricity consumption comes to
> about 9 kWhs or about $3/month at the current HELCO R rate.*
>
>
>
> *I have turned the utility power off to my home on a number of occasions
> in order to experience how Powerwall would perform in a simulated grid
> outage.  When the grid goes down, my house effectively becomes a
> self-generating micro-grid.  That is, my photovoltaic system (solar modules
> and inverters) and Powerwall (battery storage and integrated inverter) form
> a power grid with energy being created and stored and then consumed by my
> electric loads.*
>
>
>
> *Several things I noted from my simulated grid outages:*
>
> *· I purposefully overloaded Powerwall by turning on my electric
> dryer and electric oven at the same time.  As expected, since the maximum
> output of Powerwall is 5 kilowatts, it shutdown.  Meaning that all the
> power in my house went off.  Within seconds, Powerwall reset itself and the
> power came back on, with the dryer and oven having shut down after the
> power went off.  If power does not come back on after your Powerwall trips
> off, you will need to turn off those high-power loads and reset Powerwall
> by turning its black on-off switch, located on the right side of the unit,
> from on to off and then on again.  The important takeaway: during a utility
> outage, you will need to be careful as far as operating heavy electric
> loads, especially 240 volt appliances both from the perspective of
> overloading your Powerwall and rapidly drawing down the battery capacity,
> especially at night.*
>
> *· The magic of frequency shifting.  Without getting into too much
> techno-talk, this is the story of frequency shifting.  Normal utility
> frequency is 60 hertz (Hz).  PV inverters require the utility frequency to
> be at or near 60 Hz in order to operate.  During a grid outage, Powerwall
> effectively establishes grid quality power (120/240 volts at 60 Hz),
> allowing a micro grid to operate with solar providing power to your house
> loads (during daylight hours) and charge Powerwall as needed.  During the
> day with the loads being met by your PV system and Powerwall being at or
> near full state of charge (97-100 percent), Powerwall will shift the
> frequency from 60 to 66 Hz in order to turn off the PV inverter(s).  That
> is, the PV inverter(s) see the frequency out of spec and shut down as
> they’re expected and required to do.  Why? Because with Powerwall at or
> near full and the house 

Re: [RE-wrenches] experience with the Tesla Powerwall

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar]

Tesla also promises an offgrid version soon that will be DC coupled. The
price is not bad for 13 KWH right now. The system is 50 vdc which to me is
usable as it stands. All of the 400vdc batteries are not conceived right
in my humble opinion! Not to mention for safety in my home!

Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

> *Aloha Wrenches,*
>
>
> *I thought I'd share my own experiences with the Powerwall as my company
> is
> now launching a program to add PW to existing NEM systems since the vast
> majority of them do not have storage which means that if the grid goes
> down, so does their PV system.  (With the exception of the SMA SB line and
> their Secure Power Supply.)*
>
>
> *And no, I'm not a shill or toadie for Tesla.*
>
>
> *marco *
>
> *I wanted to walk my own talk.  Before we launched adding Powerwall to
> existing Net Energy Metered solar electric systems, I wanted to make sure
> that what was promised on paper would work in the real world.  I added
> Powerwall to my NEM system last year and have been monitoring and testing
> it during normal grid-on and grid outage modes.  And I’m very pleased to
> report that Powerwall has performed flawlessly and as expected.*
>
>
>
> *When used in a NEM system, Powerwall is programmed to be in “Backup”
> mode.  When utility power is on, Powerwall stands ready in a full state of
> charge for any power outage.  During normal grid-on conditions, my
> Powerall
> takes about .6 kilowatt-hours every other day to stay fully charged.  Over
> the course of the month, this Powerwall’s electricity consumption comes
> to
> about 9 kWhs or about $3/month at the current HELCO R rate.*
>
>
>
> *I have turned the utility power off to my home on a number of occasions
> in
> order to experience how Powerwall would perform in a simulated grid
> outage.  When the grid goes down, my house effectively becomes a
> self-generating micro-grid.  That is, my photovoltaic system (solar
> modules
> and inverters) and Powerwall (battery storage and integrated inverter)
> form
> a power grid with energy being created and stored and then consumed by my
> electric loads.*
>
>
>
> *Several things I noted from my simulated grid outages:*
>
> *· I purposefully overloaded Powerwall by turning on my electric
> dryer and electric oven at the same time.  As expected, since the maximum
> output of Powerwall is 5 kilowatts, it shutdown.  Meaning that all the
> power in my house went off.  Within seconds, Powerwall reset itself and
> the
> power came back on, with the dryer and oven having shut down after the
> power went off.  If power does not come back on after your Powerwall trips
> off, you will need to turn off those high-power loads and reset Powerwall
> by turning its black on-off switch, located on the right side of the unit,
> from on to off and then on again.  The important takeaway: during a
> utility
> outage, you will need to be careful as far as operating heavy electric
> loads, especially 240 volt appliances both from the perspective of
> overloading your Powerwall and rapidly drawing down the battery capacity,
> especially at night.*
>
> *· The magic of frequency shifting.  Without getting into too
> much
> techno-talk, this is the story of frequency shifting.  Normal utility
> frequency is 60 hertz (Hz).  PV inverters require the utility frequency to
> be at or near 60 Hz in order to operate.  During a grid outage, Powerwall
> effectively establishes grid quality power (120/240 volts at 60 Hz),
> allowing a micro grid to operate with solar providing power to your house
> loads (during daylight hours) and charge Powerwall as needed.  During the
> day with the loads being met by your PV system and Powerwall being at or
> near full state of charge (97-100 percent), Powerwall will shift the
> frequency from 60 to 66 Hz in order to turn off the PV inverter(s).  That
> is, the PV inverter(s) see the frequency out of spec and shut down as
> they’re expected and required to do.  Why? Because with Powerwall at or
> near full and the house loads being met, there’s nowhere for any
> additional
> solar generation to go.  Powerwall will wait for its the state of charge
> to
> drop below 96-97 percent before shifting the frequency back to 60 Hz which
> allows the PV system to restart and generate solar power again.   This
> frequency shifting can take place repeatedly over the course of the day
> depending on load demands, solar potential and Powerwall state of charge
> and is perfectly normal and does not damage the PV inverters.*
>
> *· **66 Hz and home appliances: when Powerwall is at 66 Hz, some
> of
> your house loads may be affected.  What I and other Powerwall owners have
> noticed, while not a comprehensive list, can include: electronic clocks
> running fast, motors sounding different (microwave, washing machine,
> pumps), uninterruptible power 

[RE-wrenches] experience with the Tesla Powerwall

[Marco Mangelsdorf]

*Aloha Wrenches,*


*I thought I'd share my own experiences with the Powerwall as my company is
now launching a program to add PW to existing NEM systems since the vast
majority of them do not have storage which means that if the grid goes
down, so does their PV system.  (With the exception of the SMA SB line and
their Secure Power Supply.)*


*And no, I'm not a shill or toadie for Tesla.*


*marco *

*I wanted to walk my own talk.  Before we launched adding Powerwall to
existing Net Energy Metered solar electric systems, I wanted to make sure
that what was promised on paper would work in the real world.  I added
Powerwall to my NEM system last year and have been monitoring and testing
it during normal grid-on and grid outage modes.  And I’m very pleased to
report that Powerwall has performed flawlessly and as expected.*



*When used in a NEM system, Powerwall is programmed to be in “Backup”
mode.  When utility power is on, Powerwall stands ready in a full state of
charge for any power outage.  During normal grid-on conditions, my Powerall
takes about .6 kilowatt-hours every other day to stay fully charged.  Over
the course of the month, this Powerwall’s electricity consumption comes to
about 9 kWhs or about $3/month at the current HELCO R rate.*



*I have turned the utility power off to my home on a number of occasions in
order to experience how Powerwall would perform in a simulated grid
outage.  When the grid goes down, my house effectively becomes a
self-generating micro-grid.  That is, my photovoltaic system (solar modules
and inverters) and Powerwall (battery storage and integrated inverter) form
a power grid with energy being created and stored and then consumed by my
electric loads.*



*Several things I noted from my simulated grid outages:*

*· I purposefully overloaded Powerwall by turning on my electric
dryer and electric oven at the same time.  As expected, since the maximum
output of Powerwall is 5 kilowatts, it shutdown.  Meaning that all the
power in my house went off.  Within seconds, Powerwall reset itself and the
power came back on, with the dryer and oven having shut down after the
power went off.  If power does not come back on after your Powerwall trips
off, you will need to turn off those high-power loads and reset Powerwall
by turning its black on-off switch, located on the right side of the unit,
from on to off and then on again.  The important takeaway: during a utility
outage, you will need to be careful as far as operating heavy electric
loads, especially 240 volt appliances both from the perspective of
overloading your Powerwall and rapidly drawing down the battery capacity,
especially at night.*

*· The magic of frequency shifting.  Without getting into too much
techno-talk, this is the story of frequency shifting.  Normal utility
frequency is 60 hertz (Hz).  PV inverters require the utility frequency to
be at or near 60 Hz in order to operate.  During a grid outage, Powerwall
effectively establishes grid quality power (120/240 volts at 60 Hz),
allowing a micro grid to operate with solar providing power to your house
loads (during daylight hours) and charge Powerwall as needed.  During the
day with the loads being met by your PV system and Powerwall being at or
near full state of charge (97-100 percent), Powerwall will shift the
frequency from 60 to 66 Hz in order to turn off the PV inverter(s).  That
is, the PV inverter(s) see the frequency out of spec and shut down as
they’re expected and required to do.  Why? Because with Powerwall at or
near full and the house loads being met, there’s nowhere for any additional
solar generation to go.  Powerwall will wait for its the state of charge to
drop below 96-97 percent before shifting the frequency back to 60 Hz which
allows the PV system to restart and generate solar power again.   This
frequency shifting can take place repeatedly over the course of the day
depending on load demands, solar potential and Powerwall state of charge
and is perfectly normal and does not damage the PV inverters.*

*· **66 Hz and home appliances: when Powerwall is at 66 Hz, some of
your house loads may be affected.  What I and other Powerwall owners have
noticed, while not a comprehensive list, can include: electronic clocks
running fast, motors sounding different (microwave, washing machine,
pumps), uninterruptible power sources (UPS) not charging and going into
back-up power mode, appliances having a computer behaving unusually.*
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