Re: [RE-wrenches] Hydro system

[chris]

Check out http://www.dtlhydro.com/.   They’re out of BC and have some excellent 
information (and products).
 
Best,
 
Chris Daum
Oasis Montana Inc.
406-777-4309 or 4321
406-777-4309 fax
www.oasismontana.com <http://www.oasismontana.com>  
 
 
 
From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of 
toddc...@finestplanet.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2019 8:22 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Hydro system
 
isn't there a formula like head in feet X gpm divided by 10 = approximate 
wattage?

todd
 
 


On Wednesday, July 10, 2019 7:10pm, "Jerry Shafer" mailto:jerrysgarag...@gmail.com> > said:
You need head (pressure) and GPM, clean degree free, no silt, a catch basin to 
stall the water, big pipe long run, try to keep the rollercoasters out, 
(rises), and no 90's, that's just to start. Low head waterwheels can produce 
lots of power to but you need a river of water. 
Jerry



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Re: [RE-wrenches] Hydro system

[Alex MeVay]

Hi Mac,

We worked for a while building controls for one company in Oz doing
small hydro, and I can share some observations, and things I learned
coming from a solar background:

> My first question is can you run a power system from hydro direct in the 10 
> -100 kW range?

Yes, I believe this is common in that power range to avoid battery and
BoS costs.  A DC-coupled/battery-backed approach could be used where
the water flow is seasonal or insufficient for loads, or where solar
is added.

> If so, how do you adjust for varying load?

For smaller systems with "normal" (i.e., not "low-head") turbines, the
water is pretty much either there or it isn't, so the turbine works
with constant head.  Typically, these are set up to run at full power,
and a diversion load is used to regulate RPM (and frequency for AC
systems).  For AC systems, rotor/field current can be adjusted to
regulate voltage, as you mentioned.

For the DC systems we supported, we built our control algorithm to the
turbine builder/installer's instructions, and rather than trying to
MPPT the turbine as we would for solar, the controller was set to
clamp the rectified turbine voltage to a fixed, user-adjustable value.
At installation, after the nozzles and penstock were adjusted, the
installer would manually adjust the turbine clamp voltage to maximize
charging current, then leave the voltage there indefinitely, in effect
doing MPPT once.  Our controller used a diversion load to regulate the
turbine voltage/RPM once the batteries were full.

As you scale things up, the diversion load approach would seem to get
a little silly, so adjusting the flow rate as Darryl suggested would
seem to be the better, if more complex approach.

Based on the info you gave for your customer's installation, it seems
like the automatic transfer switch is a great idea, but it's probably
not worth trying to DC-couple it if it's working well when not
clogged.

For some background and reference, here are some links to AC and DC
hydro products from the company we worked with, and an excellent
writeup of a personal small AC hydro installation that talks through
the transmission and control issues in great detail:

https://www.platypuspower.com.au/
https://ludens.cl/paradise/turbine/turbine.html
https://ludens.cl/Electron/picelc/picelc.html
https://ludens.cl/Electron/AVR/AVR.html

Again, thank you Wrenches for all the knowledge you share.

Alex MeVay

Blue Sky Energy * http://www.blueskyenergyinc.com
Genasun * http://www.genasun.com
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Hydro system

[Darryl Thayer]

Again from little experience, but a diversion valve of the size of the
Penstock placed as far ahead of the turbine, (a long penstock reduces the
turbulence, turbulence reduces the turbines power.) Tnhis selector valve
can be AC or DC motorized, Belemo and other similar motors,  they open
slowly, drawing little electrical power.  ( If I remember I have run up to
100 feet, on 18-2 wire.  My guess is 14-2 UF would go over 250 feet, but do
the Math.  (I will look in my junk tomorrow to see if I can find a
representative  motor)I am guessing but your inlet is about 4" pipe and
pool valves work.  If you are in a freezing location, be sure to drill a
weep hole to drain the pipe from the second source to the valve.

On Wed, Jul 10, 2019 at 8:59 PM Mac Lewis  wrote:

> Hi Wrenches,
>
> I've got a site visit for a largish ranch hydro site tomorrow.  I am
> relying on info from someone who doesn't know all of the nitty gritty
> details about how the power system works (like size) but I want to try to
> educate myself a bit.  I know a bit about hydro but I'm no expert.
>
> As its been reported, this site runs hydro direct and has on off-grid
> solar system backup the hydro.  There is a manual transfer switch that
> allows them to select between power systems.  They are annoyed because
> lately they are getting clogged up a lot and take a long walk up the hill
> to switch systems.  They would like this to be automatic.
>
> My first question is can you run a power system from hydro direct in the
> 10 -100 kW range?  If so, how do you adjust for varying load?  Can you have
> a dynamic turbine speed put out good 60 Hz power by adjusting rotor
> current?
>
> I get the impression it works fairly well typically but high water can
> wreak havoc on the hydro.
>
> I'd like to offer a more automatic/robust solution.  To me, it makes sense
> to rectify the hydro and feed the battery bank directly and use the
> inverters to serve the load.  If it clogs up, I can give them an alarm.
> Another option may be to feed the inverters AC input with the hydro, and
> the internal transfer switch will transfer to battery power when the hydro
> voltage collapses.  My third solution would be to replace the manual
> transfer switch with an automatic solution.
>
> To me, the rectification solution seems like its the most straight-forward
> because it doesn't rely on the power quality of the hydro turbine.  Feeding
> an AC input on the inverter and/or ATS will depend somewhat on voltage and
> frequency regulation of the hydro system.
>
> I know that the info I'm giving here is probably flawed but I'd be
> interested in what you think is the best solution for this situation.
>
> --
>
>
>
> Mac Lewis
>
> *"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates*
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Hydro system

[Darryl Thayer]

Hi i have only worked on two so disregard if i am off track.  Bob Gudgel of
Midnite solar helped me with ideas.  It seemed to me the water keeps
flowing and if no load the turbine went fastest.  As the load increased the
turbine slowed down,   but generated more power until the turbine was
overloaded. Then the power dropped.  It is difficult to MPPT a turbine.
Again Bob can help here.  But a turbine larger than the load can load
follow.  I believe the Classic CC can be programed to load follow this goes
back more than 10 years


On Wed, Jul 10, 2019, 10:24 PM Mac Lewis  wrote:

> I don't really want to mess with changing the hydro, I'm more interested
> in alleviating the manual transfer between power systems.  I'm planning on
> putting a power quality recorder/oscilloscope so that I understand what
> type of power we are working with.  Its semi-large (from my perspective)
> because I believe that they transmit at 11.4 kV and step it back down.
> That tells me that the penstock is long (and expensive).  In some ways my
> post is premature, but the big question is can you have a largish hydro
> feed a load direct without storage (maybe there is a dynamic load bank or
> something like that?  I like the idea of feeding batteries direct and
> letting the inverters make good quality power but I'm ignorant about hydro
> on this scale.
>
> I appreciate the ideas
>
> On Wed, Jul 10, 2019 at 9:11 PM Jerry Shafer 
> wrote:
>
>> This is from the web and its metric so dont get messed up. You need big
>> GPM and big head (pressure) yes it is multiplied but 1 × anything is still
>> 1, 2 x is not much better.
>> Do you have any values yet, elevation change,
>> Jerry
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 10, 2019, 8:00 PM  wrote:
>>
>>> isn't there a formula like head in feet X gpm divided by 10 =
>>> approximate wattage?
>>>
>>> todd
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, July 10, 2019 7:10pm, "Jerry Shafer" <
>>> jerrysgarag...@gmail.com> said:
>>>
>>> You need head (pressure) and GPM, clean degree free, no silt, a catch
>>> basin to stall the water, big pipe long run, try to keep the rollercoasters
>>> out, (rises), and no 90's, that's just to start. Low head waterwheels can
>>> produce lots of power to but you need a river of water.
>>> Jerry
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from Finest Planet WebMail.
>>> ___
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>
> --
>
>
>
> Mac Lewis
>
> *"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates*
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Hydro system

[Michael Morningstar]

Mac,

I work with hydro power plants from 50W to 100kw. AC direct, DC, AC to DC, 
stand alone and utility connected, in all sorts of configurations. Report back 
with the turbine manufacturer and more specifics so that I may better advise 
you. There are many routes one can take.

Clogging and sediment problems are usually a result of poorly designed intakes. 
Anything other than a Coanda design is going to be problematic. When I work on 
existing systems, thats the first place to make improvements.

Poorly designed penstocks create all sorts of negative phenomena.

I’ve always found generic formulas for estimating potential power output to be 
inaccurate. I gather data and then present it to which ever turbine 
manufacturer I think is suited for the project and let them determine the 
output.

Given the size you are describing, the turbine is probably made by Canyon or 
Hydro Stock (now out of business). Canyon’s engineers will be able to assist 
you in adding automation and control to such a power plant. I’m currently 
working to remove a PLC based control system designed by an electrical 
contractor that was intended to do what you describe. It was a well intentioned 
attempt but never really worked correctly. 

Michael


> On Jul 10, 2019, at 8:23 PM, Mac Lewis  wrote:
> 
> I don't really want to mess with changing the hydro, I'm more interested in 
> alleviating the manual transfer between power systems.  I'm planning on 
> putting a power quality recorder/oscilloscope so that I understand what type 
> of power we are working with.  Its semi-large (from my perspective) because I 
> believe that they transmit at 11.4 kV and step it back down.  That tells me 
> that the penstock is long (and expensive).  In some ways my post is 
> premature, but the big question is can you have a largish hydro feed a load 
> direct without storage (maybe there is a dynamic load bank or something like 
> that?  I like the idea of feeding batteries direct and letting the inverters 
> make good quality power but I'm ignorant about hydro on this scale.
> 
> I appreciate the ideas
> 
> On Wed, Jul 10, 2019 at 9:11 PM Jerry Shafer  > wrote:
> This is from the web and its metric so dont get messed up. You need big GPM 
> and big head (pressure) yes it is multiplied but 1 × anything is still 1, 2 x 
> is not much better.
> Do you have any values yet, elevation change, 
> Jerry
> 
> On Wed, Jul 10, 2019, 8:00 PM  > wrote:
> isn't there a formula like head in feet X gpm divided by 10 = approximate 
> wattage?
> 
> todd
>  
>  
> 
> 
> On Wednesday, July 10, 2019 7:10pm, "Jerry Shafer"  > said:
> 
> You need head (pressure) and GPM, clean degree free, no silt, a catch basin 
> to stall the water, big pipe long run, try to keep the rollercoasters out, 
> (rises), and no 90's, that's just to start. Low head waterwheels can produce 
> lots of power to but you need a river of water.
> Jerry
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from Finest Planet WebMail.
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> 
> 
> 
> Mac Lewis
> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Hydro system

[Mac Lewis]

I don't really want to mess with changing the hydro, I'm more interested in
alleviating the manual transfer between power systems.  I'm planning on
putting a power quality recorder/oscilloscope so that I understand what
type of power we are working with.  Its semi-large (from my perspective)
because I believe that they transmit at 11.4 kV and step it back down.
That tells me that the penstock is long (and expensive).  In some ways my
post is premature, but the big question is can you have a largish hydro
feed a load direct without storage (maybe there is a dynamic load bank or
something like that?  I like the idea of feeding batteries direct and
letting the inverters make good quality power but I'm ignorant about hydro
on this scale.

I appreciate the ideas

On Wed, Jul 10, 2019 at 9:11 PM Jerry Shafer 
wrote:

> This is from the web and its metric so dont get messed up. You need big
> GPM and big head (pressure) yes it is multiplied but 1 × anything is still
> 1, 2 x is not much better.
> Do you have any values yet, elevation change,
> Jerry
>
> On Wed, Jul 10, 2019, 8:00 PM  wrote:
>
>> isn't there a formula like head in feet X gpm divided by 10 = approximate
>> wattage?
>>
>> todd
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, July 10, 2019 7:10pm, "Jerry Shafer" <
>> jerrysgarag...@gmail.com> said:
>>
>> You need head (pressure) and GPM, clean degree free, no silt, a catch
>> basin to stall the water, big pipe long run, try to keep the rollercoasters
>> out, (rises), and no 90's, that's just to start. Low head waterwheels can
>> produce lots of power to but you need a river of water.
>> Jerry
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from Finest Planet WebMail.
>> ___
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-- 



Mac Lewis

*"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates*
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Hydro system

[toddcory]

isn't there a formula like head in feet X gpm divided by 10 = approximate 
wattage?

todd
 
 


On Wednesday, July 10, 2019 7:10pm, "Jerry Shafer"  
said:



You need head (pressure) and GPM, clean degree free, no silt, a catch basin to 
stall the water, big pipe long run, try to keep the rollercoasters out, 
(rises), and no 90's, that's just to start. Low head waterwheels can produce 
lots of power to but you need a river of water.
Jerry


Sent from Finest Planet WebMail.
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Hydro system

[Jerry Shafer]

You need head (pressure) and GPM, clean degree free, no silt, a catch basin
to stall the water, big pipe long run, try to keep the rollercoasters out,
(rises), and no 90's, that's just to start. Low head waterwheels can
produce lots of power to but you need a river of water.
Jerry
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[RE-wrenches] Hydro system

[Mac Lewis]

Hi Wrenches,

I've got a site visit for a largish ranch hydro site tomorrow.  I am
relying on info from someone who doesn't know all of the nitty gritty
details about how the power system works (like size) but I want to try to
educate myself a bit.  I know a bit about hydro but I'm no expert.

As its been reported, this site runs hydro direct and has on off-grid solar
system backup the hydro.  There is a manual transfer switch that allows
them to select between power systems.  They are annoyed because lately they
are getting clogged up a lot and take a long walk up the hill to switch
systems.  They would like this to be automatic.

My first question is can you run a power system from hydro direct in the 10
-100 kW range?  If so, how do you adjust for varying load?  Can you have a
dynamic turbine speed put out good 60 Hz power by adjusting rotor current?

I get the impression it works fairly well typically but high water can
wreak havoc on the hydro.

I'd like to offer a more automatic/robust solution.  To me, it makes sense
to rectify the hydro and feed the battery bank directly and use the
inverters to serve the load.  If it clogs up, I can give them an alarm.
Another option may be to feed the inverters AC input with the hydro, and
the internal transfer switch will transfer to battery power when the hydro
voltage collapses.  My third solution would be to replace the manual
transfer switch with an automatic solution.

To me, the rectification solution seems like its the most straight-forward
because it doesn't rely on the power quality of the hydro turbine.  Feeding
an AC input on the inverter and/or ATS will depend somewhat on voltage and
frequency regulation of the hydro system.

I know that the info I'm giving here is probably flawed but I'd be
interested in what you think is the best solution for this situation.

-- 



Mac Lewis

*"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates*
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Hydro Off-grid Battery Sizing

[Dave Palumbo]

Hi Matt,

 

Short answer is yes, 2 days of autonomy should be fine. I am presently 
operating our off rid PV/hydro system at well under two days of autonomy.

 

I just crunched some numbers for our situation here in Vermont. Off grid system 
that is now 4.3kW PV and with a Harris micro-hydro turbine that I run at 325 
Watts.

· 24v system initially installed 30 years ago and with PV and inverters 
(dual OutBack) upgraded 7 years ago.

· Present Battery bank now over 13 years old, 2v industrial flooded 
LA's rated at 1200 AH. Originally designed for 3+ days of autonomy.

· Our large home has been a true two family home for the past three 
years, with a full second kitchen along with TV etc. we are now using about 
15kWh/day during the winter. Our Tarm wood gasification, forced hot water 
heating system uses quite a bit of electricity but we can heat the whole deal 
without burning any oil, or propane, for this 4,000 sq foot two family home in 
northern Vermont it is well worth it. We harvest the 10 cords of hardwood out 
of our woods.

· 28,880Wh battery bank / 15,000 Wh = 1.5 days of autonomy. I didn't 
know how well this would work when we added the second living space with the 9 
yr old batteries at that point. But I have not had to change a thing.

· I have my next set of batteries (sized them a little larger, 1350AH) 
waiting in reserve in my basement (properly cared for per Surrette/Rolls 
instructions) as I don't know when the present 13 yr + set will fall off the 
cliff. I'm watching them closely, no alarming signs of the end yet. Monitoring 
all cell post terminals with my handheld IR thermometer when battery bank is 
charging hard and or when the system is under a large load. So far all 
terminals get up to 86 degrees F at most. Water use has not changed much at all 
yet and specific gravity readings are all very good.

· More numbers: The charge rate with 4.3k of PV only is about a C/8 on 
the battery bank. 

· Hydro is 325W, run 24/7 from late October through April, then as 
needed during rainy periods. 

· Diesel Gen set charges at 160 Amps, so during the cloudy, snowy 
winter periods the hydro and gen combined charge at about a C/7 rate. 

Dave

 

David Palumbo 

Independent Power LLC

462 Solar Way Drive

Hyde Park, VT 05655

802-371-8678 cell

802-888-4917 home

 

 

 

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Matt Sherald
Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2017 7:21 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Hydro Off-grid Battery Sizing

 

Good morning!  I went to bed wondering if the off-grid battery bank sizing 
rules that I use for PV systems hold true for hydro-based systems.  I woke up 
and I was still mulling this over.

My battery bank sizing standard is to use the method outlined in the SEI 
Photovoltaics Manual.  I would presume that since the charging source is fairly 
consistent (day-to-day and hour-to-hour) that I could then reduce the days of 
autonomy to 2-days.  

I'm curious though if anyone has advice for sizing a battery bank for hydro.  
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.


 

Thank you!

-- 

Matt Sherald

PIMBY Energy, LLC

NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer®

304-704-5943

www.getpimby.blogspot.com
www.getpimby.com

 

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[RE-wrenches] Hydro Off-grid Battery Sizing

[Matt Sherald]

Good morning!  I went to bed wondering if the off-grid battery bank sizing
rules that I use for PV systems hold true for hydro-based systems.  I woke
up and I was still mulling this over.

My battery bank sizing standard is to use the method outlined in the SEI
Photovoltaics Manual.  I would presume that since the charging source is
fairly consistent (day-to-day and hour-to-hour) that I could then reduce
the days of autonomy to 2-days.

I'm curious though if anyone has advice for sizing a battery bank for
hydro.  Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you!
-- 
Matt Sherald
PIMBY Energy, LLC
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer®
304-704-5943

www.getpimby.blogspot.com
www.getpimby.com
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Hydro Diversion Controls

[William Miller]

David:

Interesting idea.  The added benefit is if the relay gets stuck, it won't 
destroy the battery bank.


The diversion load must equal or exceed the output of the hydro, 
correct?  The load we have will draw 38 amps at 24 vdc, the hydro will put 
out 2 amps.  Sounds like I have enough headroom


Thanks again to all of you.

William

At 08:32 PM 11/21/2012, David Katz wrote:


William,
I always connect the hydro side of the diode to the diversion load with 
the contactor, so I don't pull the battery down while regulating.  The 
diversion load must draw enough current to pull the hydro voltage below 
the absorb voltage. Use ohms law to calculate the resistance.

David Katz


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Hydro Diversion Controls

[jay peltz]

Hi William

If the hydro is only 2 amps, I would argue that you don't diversion at all.

The float current expect for a really small battery bank is higher than that.

So unless you want/need it for some other reason, I would not install one.

jay

peltz power
On Nov 22, 2012, at 11:18 AM, William Miller wrote:

 David:
 
 Interesting idea.  The added benefit is if the relay gets stuck, it won't 
 destroy the battery bank.
 
 The diversion load must equal or exceed the output of the hydro, correct?  
 The load we have will draw 38 amps at 24 vdc, the hydro will put out 2 amps.  
 Sounds like I have enough headroom
 
 Thanks again to all of you.
 
 William
 
 At 08:32 PM 11/21/2012, David Katz wrote:
 
 William,
 I always connect the hydro side of the diode to the diversion load with the 
 contactor, so I don't pull the battery down while regulating.  The diversion 
 load must draw enough current to pull the hydro voltage below the absorb 
 voltage. Use ohms law to calculate the resistance.
 David Katz
 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Hydro Diversion Controls

[larry]

jay,The diversion control has nothing to do with battery current, it is to control voltage. Without it, over-voltage will occur anytime more charge current is available than the battery is accepting. A healthy small battery bank current can be as low as 0.6 amperes for flooded and AGM or GEL technology as low as 0.1 amperes.Larry CrutcherStarlight Solar Power Systems


 Original Message 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Hydro Diversion Controls
From: jay peltz j...@asis.com
Date: Thu, November 22, 2012 12:22 pm
To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Hi William

If the hydro is only 2 amps, I would argue that you don't diversion at all.

The float current expect for a really small battery bank is higher than that.

So unless you want/need it for some other reason, I would not install one.

jay

peltz power
On Nov 22, 2012, at 11:18 AM, William Miller wrote:

 David:
 
 Interesting idea.  The added benefit is if the relay gets stuck, it won't destroy the battery bank.
 
 The diversion load must equal or exceed the output of the hydro, correct?  The load we have will draw 38 amps at 24 vdc, the hydro will put out 2 amps.  Sounds like I have enough headroom
 
 Thanks again to all of you.
 
 William
 
 At 08:32 PM 11/21/2012, David Katz wrote:
 
 William,
 I always connect the hydro side of the diode to the diversion load with the contactor, so I don't pull the battery down while regulating.  The diversion load must draw enough current to pull the hydro voltage below the absorb voltage. Use ohms law to calculate the resistance.
 David Katz
 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Hydro Diversion Controls

[David Katz]

William,
That big of a load will look like a dead short to the hydro.  If you want to 
use the diverted energy, you need a load that draws just enough to pull the 
voltage down below charging voltage.  You only have 50 watt to control.  Get a 
12 ohm 100 watt resistor or a 4000 watt 240 volt water heating element. That 
would draw 60 watts at 30 volts.
I would probably forget diversion and run it through an old C-40 charge 
control.  Have you measured the voltage from the hydro without a load?  If it 
is under 70 volts you could use a PV controller like the C40
How big is the battery?  You might not need control at all if it is a few 
hundred amp hours of flooded battery.
David Katz.

Sent from my HTC smartphone on the Now Network from Sprint!


- Reply message -
From: William Miller will...@millersolar.com
To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Hydro Diversion Controls
Date: Thu, Nov 22, 2012 12:18 pm



David:

Interesting idea.  The added benefit is if the relay gets stuck, it won't
destroy the battery bank.

The diversion load must equal or exceed the output of the hydro,
correct?  The load we have will draw 38 amps at 24 vdc, the hydro will put
out 2 amps.  Sounds like I have enough headroom

Thanks again to all of you.

William

At 08:32 PM 11/21/2012, David Katz wrote:

William,
I always connect the hydro side of the diode to the diversion load with
the contactor, so I don't pull the battery down while regulating.  The
diversion load must draw enough current to pull the hydro voltage below
the absorb voltage. Use ohms law to calculate the resistance.
David Katz

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[RE-wrenches] Hydro Diversion Controls

[William Miller]

Friends:

I have just two micro-hydro clients, too few to have dedicated as much time 
as I should to educate myself.  I appreciate any help on these questions:


I need to rework a diversion control system.

1. I am going to use a mercury wetted relay driven by the Aux relay in an 
FX inverter set to actuate on high battery to connect the DC Bus to the 
diversion load.  Sound OK?


2. Can I connect the hydro to the DC Bus (via a diode) using a breaker?  I 
need OCP but I don't want anyone to disconnect the breaker and risk over 
speeding the water wheel.  I could label the breaker Do not open.  I have 
been using a fuse, but if it opens, it is likely to remain undetected for a 
longer time.


Thank in advance.

William Miller

Miller Solar
Voice :805-438-5600
email: will...@millersolar.com
http://millersolar.com
License No. C-10-773985

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Hydro Diversion Controls

[David Katz]

William,
I always connect the hydro side of the diode to the diversion load with the 
contactor, so I don't pull the battery down while regulating.  The diversion 
load must draw enough current to pull the hydro voltage below the absorb 
voltage. Use ohms law to calculate the resistance.
David Katz

Sent from my HTC smartphone on the Now Network from Sprint!


- Reply message -
From: William Miller will...@millersolar.com
To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Hydro Diversion Controls
Date: Wed, Nov 21, 2012 12:34 pm



Friends:

I have just two micro-hydro clients, too few to have dedicated as much time
as I should to educate myself.  I appreciate any help on these questions:

I need to rework a diversion control system.

1. I am going to use a mercury wetted relay driven by the Aux relay in an
FX inverter set to actuate on high battery to connect the DC Bus to the
diversion load.  Sound OK?

2. Can I connect the hydro to the DC Bus (via a diode) using a breaker?  I
need OCP but I don't want anyone to disconnect the breaker and risk over
speeding the water wheel.  I could label the breaker Do not open.  I have
been using a fuse, but if it opens, it is likely to remain undetected for a
longer time.

Thank in advance.

William Miller

Miller Solar
Voice :805-438-5600
email: will...@millersolar.com
http://millersolar.com
License No. C-10-773985

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[RE-wrenches] hydro

[Larry Brown]

Wrenches,

Any recommendations for a small scale hydro manufacturer for a grid- 
tied system with about 80 feet of head and 1200 gallon per minute  
flow and the dam already in place.   The load at this Center is to  
high for an affordable battery bank and the grid is close at hand,  
they already have a backup generator and transfer switch


Thanks for any advice

Larry Brown
Sun Mountain
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Re: [RE-wrenches] hydro

[jay peltz]

Hi Larry,

You've got a few options,
either a few smaller turbines or one large unit;

Derik at Hipower really knows his stuff with the intertie hydros.

For the smaller units (which might be cheaper) contact
Derik at Hipower hydro
707-923-3507
http://hipowerhydro.com/


for the larger unit,

contact
Canyon industries
http://www.canyonhydro.com/

jay
peltz power

On Sep 23, 2009, at 7:07 AM, Larry Brown wrote:


Wrenches,

Any recommendations for a small scale hydro manufacturer for a grid- 
tied system with about 80 feet of head and 1200 gallon per minute  
flow and the dam already in place.   The load at this Center is to  
high for an affordable battery bank and the grid is close at hand,  
they already have a backup generator and transfer switch


Thanks for any advice

Larry Brown
Sun Mountain
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Re: [RE-wrenches] hydro coils

[Drake Chamberlin]

At 11:56 AM 11/6/2008, you wrote:
is a thermo siphon feed as done in days of old.  This is self 
regulating and worry free


Why is the system worry free?  Don't the coils thermo siphon into a 
tank that could overheat?


Thanks


Drake Chamberlin
Athens Electric
OH License 44810
CO License 3773
740-448-7328
740-856-9648  



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Re: [RE-wrenches] hydro coils

[robert ellison]

Todd,
I have a customer who just added some to his cook stove. Don't know the
brand but I will check with him to see what they were and where they came
from.

Later,
Bob

On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 12:57 AM, Todd Cory [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote:

 I have a client that is wanting to add a water loop in their wood stove.
 Does anyone know if the old SS hydro coils are still made?

 Todd

 --


   Todd Cory


   KE6SXS

 [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]*


   Mt. Shasta Energy Services


  License C-10 #811428


  P.O. Box 689


  Mt. Shasta, CA. 96067

 *(530) 926-1079*

 * *

 I'd put my money on solar energy...I hope we don't have to wait till oil
 and coal run out before we tackle that.
 ∞ Thomas Edison, in conversation with Henry Ford and Harvey Firestone,
 March 1931**

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Re: [RE-wrenches] hydro coils

[Travis Creswell]

Assuming you’re talking about the units that actually installed in the fire
box; I’ve actually disconnected a few over the years because they overheated
the water to point of regularly blowing the pop off valve of the domestic
hot water heater.  It’s pretty spooky to rely on the PT valve in that
manner.  These were retired folks that didn’t use much hot water and plenty
of time to keep the wood stove stoked.  Hyrdo Coils (etc) would probably
work OK for an installation that didn’t keep the wood stove going 24hrs/day,
used plenty of hot water and had a very attentive owner.

 

But to answer Todd’s question.  I haven’t seen a new one for long time.
Seems like I’ve seen a few NOS ones on Ebay and in the dusty corners of wood
stove dealers.  There was a product that actually installed on the outside
of the firebox in such a manner that the heat was conducted to it.  I don’t
remember who made it and it’s been years since I’ve seen it.  Of course it
wouldn’t be near as efficient but that would be a good thing in this case
plus it didn’t void the stoves warranty because you didn’t have to drill any
holes into the stove.

 

Best,

Travis Creswell

Ozark Energy Services

 

 

   _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 8:40 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] hydro coils

 

Todd,

Just a friendly point - I know you probably know---be real careful doing
that. That use to be an option on some of the woodstoves I sold 25 years ago
until,.BOOM! ..DIY not recommended. 

 

Holt E. Kelly
Holtek Fireplace  Solar Products
500 Jewell Dr.
Waco,Tx. 76712
254-751-9111
254-228-9621 (cell)
HYPERLINK mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED]

HYPERLINK http://www.holteksolar.comwww.holteksolar.com


 

- Original Message - 

From: HYPERLINK mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Todd Cory 

To: HYPERLINK
mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.orgre-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org 

Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 11:57 PM

Subject: [RE-wrenches] hydro coils

 

I have a client that is wanting to add a water loop in their wood stove. 
Does anyone know if the old SS hydro coils are still made?

Todd

-- 





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Re: [RE-wrenches] hydro coils

[Benjamin Root]

Hi Todd,

See the current issue of Home Power for article 
on Heat Exchangers (by Chuck Marken). I know that 
at least one of the manufacturers mentioned in 
Access has a unit specifically designed for wood 
stoves.


Ben

I have a client that is wanting to add a water 
loop in their wood stove. Does anyone know if 
the old SS hydro coils are still made?


Todd

--


   Todd Cory


   KE6SXS

[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]*


   Mt. Shasta Energy Services


 License C-10 #811428


 P.O. Box 689


 Mt. Shasta, CA. 96067

*(530) 926-1079*

* *

I'd put my money on solar energy...I hope we 
don't have to wait till oil and coal run out 
before we tackle that.
ƒ Thomas Edison, in conversation with Henry Ford 
and Harvey Firestone, March 1931**


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Benjamin M. Root
Art Director, Home Power Magazine
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Re: [RE-wrenches] hydro coils

[Todd Cory]

Thanks Ben... I downloaded it yesterday but have not read it yet.

Todd

Benjamin Root wrote:


Hi Todd,

See the current issue of/ Home Power/ for article on Heat Exchangers 
(by Chuck Marken). I know that at least one of the manufacturers 
mentioned in/ Access/ has a unit specifically designed for wood stoves.


Ben

I have a client that is wanting to add a water loop in their wood 
stove. Does anyone know if the old SS hydro coils are still made?


Todd




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Re: [RE-wrenches] hydro coils

[Conrad Geyser]

Todd / Wrenches:

For what it’s worth:

My favorite woodstove hookup is a thermo siphon feed as done in days of old.
This is self regulating and worry free.  My oldest one has been going for
~25 years.  Just use all threaded joints anywhere near the stove!  In
firebox HX  I’d average 24” of ¾” brass per person for a full time
woodstove.  A scraper arrangement to clean off deposits can make a big
difference if more BTUs are needed. 

Conrad

Cotuit Solar 

 

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis
Creswell
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 10:01 AM
To: 'RE-wrenches'
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] hydro coils

 

Assuming you’re talking about the units that actually installed in the fire
box; I’ve actually disconnected a few over the years because they overheated
the water to point of regularly blowing the pop off valve of the domestic
hot water heater.  It’s pretty spooky to rely on the PT valve in that
manner.  These were retired folks that didn’t use much hot water and plenty
of time to keep the wood stove stoked.  Hyrdo Coils (etc) would probably
work OK for an installation that didn’t keep the wood stove going 24hrs/day,
used plenty of hot water and had a very attentive owner.

 

But to answer Todd’s question.  I haven’t seen a new one for long time.
Seems like I’ve seen a few NOS ones on Ebay and in the dusty corners of wood
stove dealers.  There was a product that actually installed on the outside
of the firebox in such a manner that the heat was conducted to it.  I don’t
remember who made it and it’s been years since I’ve seen it.  Of course it
wouldn’t be near as efficient but that would be a good thing in this case
plus it didn’t void the stoves warranty because you didn’t have to drill any
holes into the stove.

 

Best,

Travis Creswell

Ozark Energy Services

 

 

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 8:40 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] hydro coils

 

Todd,

Just a friendly point - I know you probably know---be real careful doing
that. That use to be an option on some of the woodstoves I sold 25 years ago
until,.BOOM! ..DIY not recommended. 

 

Holt E. Kelly
Holtek Fireplace  Solar Products
500 Jewell Dr.
Waco,Tx. 76712
254-751-9111
254-228-9621 (cell)
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

www.holteksolar.com


 

- Original Message - 

From: Todd mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]  Cory 

To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org 

Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 11:57 PM

Subject: [RE-wrenches] hydro coils

 

I have a client that is wanting to add a water loop in their wood stove. 
Does anyone know if the old SS hydro coils are still made?

Todd

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[RE-wrenches] hydro coils

[Todd Cory]

I have a client that is wanting to add a water loop in their wood stove. 
Does anyone know if the old SS hydro coils are still made?


Todd

--


   Todd Cory


   KE6SXS

[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]*


   Mt. Shasta Energy Services


 License C-10 #811428


 P.O. Box 689


 Mt. Shasta, CA. 96067

*(530) 926-1079*

* *

“I'd put my money on solar energy...I hope we don't have to wait till oil and coal run out before we tackle that. 

∞ Thomas Edison, in conversation with Henry Ford and Harvey Firestone, 
March 1931**


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