Re: [RE-wrenches] supply side connection - Tap connector recommendations

2016-05-12 Thread Drake 

They are also prohibited by AEP Ohio.

At 11:44 AM 5/11/2016, you wrote:

Hi Kirpal,

Sounds like you are well informed but I thought 
I'd throw this in just in case.  In Xcel Energy 
territory in Colorado they specifically prohibit 
piercing taps for solar installations.  I'm not 
sure why, but you may want to run it by the 
utility in case there happens to be some solar specific regulation.


Good Luck

On Wed, May 11, 2016 at 9:36 AM, Kirpal Khalsa 
<solarwo...@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi ShastaThank you for the 
reminder.  Safety first as they say!! Jason hit 
the nail on the headCoordinating with the 
local utility and inspector is what caused us to 
go the route of the insulation piercing taps in 
the first placeWe also considered the 
ConnectDer meter collar.I am sure we will 
use it in the futureThe local utility has 
not already approved their use and in the middle 
of a project we didn't want to break new ground.Â
Luckily for us our experienced electrician will 
be making the hot taps, I will use the 
opportunity to remind them about safety

Cheers!

Sunny Regards,
Kirpal Khalsa
Oregon LRT#25
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
Oregon Solarworks LLC
www.oregonsolarworks.com
541-299-0402

On Wed, May 11, 2016 at 7:12 AM, Shasta Daiku 
<mjmornings...@gmail.com> wrote:
Yes, “I get” that there is inconvenience in 
coordinating  with the utility and inspectors, 
permitting, and power disruption. In my world 
that’s just a given part of the process. Of 
course there are circumstances where 
disconnecting a utility supply is nearly 
unavoidable, for instance, certain industrial 
processes that run 24/7. I am aware that the 
practice of installing line side taps on 
energized unfused conductors is common in the 
solar industry and always thought it pretty 
cavalier. I have to wonder just how many 
“installers” have had real training for live 
work and utilize proper personnel safety 
protection. Part of the classwork for this type 
of training is watching/viewing the results of 
things gone wrong, even when the best practices 
are applied. An indelible impression
will certainly be imprinted, and an attitude of 
"avoiding the avoidable” second nature.


MichaelÂ

On May 11, 2016, at 5:24 AM, Jason Szumlanski 
<ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> 
wrote:


In some jurisdictions and for some utilities, 
pulling the meter is a MAJOR ordeal. Some 
jurisdictions require a "service change" permit 
on top of the solar permit just to have the 
meter pulled. It also requires getting an 
inspector out there at the perfect time to have 
it inspected so the the utility will re-install 
the meter. The homeowner is often without power 
for several hours, which is usually somewhere 
between inconvenient and unacceptable. 
Insulation piercing taps are extremely common 
around here for these reasons. With proper 
safety precautions and experience, I don't see 
any issue specifying and using them.



Jason Szumlanski




On Wed, May 11, 2016 at 12:26 AM, Shasta Daiku 
<mjmornings...@gmail.com>Â wrote:
Kirpal, I’m curious what the reason is for 
making the tap on an energized line. Why not 
have the meter pulled? While insulation 
piercing taps are designed for “hot work”, 
there use for that should be limited to tapping 
conductors that have OCP, and aren’t under 
load, with generous working space, like in a 
piece of switch gear. Even in that situation, 
making taps on energized conductors should only 
be done when it’s an absolute necessity. 
I’ve got a large body of “hot work” under 
my belt, both line and load side and will say 
that face shields and hot gloves saved my butt 
on several occasions and I’ve got a nice scar 
on my neck from a molten piece of lug from a 
main breaker that broke apart while I was 
tightening up it’s mounting screw. Stuff 
happens. It’s always best to play it safe.


Michael Morningstar


On May 10, 2016, at 11:04 AM, Chris Mason 
<cometenergysyst...@gmail.com> wrote:


This is what we use - we keep a selection in the van for difficult jobs.



Insulation Piercing Connector 2/0-10 AWG



Part #IPCS2001
Insulation Piercing Connector 2/0-10 AWG 2/0-4 
Main, 10-14 AWG Tap, Dual Rated AL9CU, Torque Limiting Nut


On Tue, May 10, 2016 at 1:27 PM, Kirpal 
Khalsa <solarwo...@gmail.com>wrote:

Hi Folks,Â
We have a job requiring a supply side 
connection.  Wondering if anyone could share 
some makes and models for connectors 
connecting to the wires between a main meter 
and the main breakers in the electrical 
panel.  Ideally it would be able to be done hot. Â
I am also looking into the ConnectDer meter 
collar but will have to coordinate with the 
utility for that and am looking to keep things

Re: [RE-wrenches] supply side connection - Tap connector recommendations

2016-05-11 Thread August Goers 
I don’t know about other parts of the country.



If we have a self contained revenue meter – ie the type that cuts off power
to the building when it is pulled, then we just pull it for any type of
supply side connection or service upgrade. Sometimes we have to cut the
utility locking mechanism (we have meter locking rings in our territory) in
order to pull the meter. We don’t get the utility involved.



If the project has a CT style meter where pulling the meter doesn’t cut off
power, then we have to setup a disconnect reconnect with the utility for
supply side connections. Screwing around in a live panel even with
insulation piercing conductors is a risk that is not worth taking. The
utility can supply *a lot* of current on the supply side of a service!



-August





*From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On
Behalf Of *Jason Szumlanski
*Sent:* Wednesday, May 11, 2016 9:11 AM
*To:* RE-wrenches
*Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] supply side connection - Tap connector
recommendations



Don't kill the messenger. I just answered your "why" question.



In Florida the "installer" (a licensed solar contractor) must subcontract
the AC interconnection to a licensed Electrical Contractor if the company
is not directly qualified by one. The "installer" would be wise to
subcontract that work to a well-qualified EC and make sure the work is done
by trained competent staff.



We do all kinds of dangerous and risky things in this industry. Installing
a UL listed tap intended for use under these conditions can be extremely
dangerous, but can also be done safely if conducted with the right safety
precautions by qualified personnel in my opinion. If a subcontracted EC or
any staff member deems the procedure unsafe, we would always err on the
side of caution and require a meter pull.



Jason




On Wed, May 11, 2016 at 10:12 AM, Shasta Daiku <mjmornings...@gmail.com>
wrote:

Yes, “I get” that there is inconvenience in coordinating  with the utility
and inspectors, permitting, and power disruption. In my world that’s just a
given part of the process. Of course there are circumstances where
disconnecting a utility supply is nearly unavoidable, for instance, certain
industrial processes that run 24/7. I am aware that the practice of
installing line side taps on energized unfused conductors is common in the
solar industry and always thought it pretty cavalier. I have to wonder just
how many “installers” have had real training for live work and utilize
proper personnel safety protection. Part of the classwork for this type of
training is watching/viewing the results of things gone wrong, even when
the best practices are applied. An indelible impression

will certainly be imprinted, and an attitude of "avoiding the avoidable”
second nature.



Michael



On May 11, 2016, at 5:24 AM, Jason Szumlanski <
ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote:



In some jurisdictions and for some utilities, pulling the meter is a MAJOR
ordeal. Some jurisdictions require a "service change" permit on top of the
solar permit just to have the meter pulled. It also requires getting an
inspector out there at the perfect time to have it inspected so the the
utility will re-install the meter. The homeowner is often without power for
several hours, which is usually somewhere between inconvenient and
unacceptable. Insulation piercing taps are extremely common around here for
these reasons. With proper safety precautions and experience, I don't see
any issue specifying and using them.





Jason Szumlanski








On Wed, May 11, 2016 at 12:26 AM, Shasta Daiku <mjmornings...@gmail.com
> wrote:

Kirpal, I’m curious what the reason is for making the tap on an energized
line. Why not have the meter pulled? While insulation piercing taps are
designed for “hot work”, there use for that should be limited to tapping
conductors that have OCP, and aren’t under load, with generous working
space, like in a piece of switch gear. Even in that situation, making taps
on energized conductors should only be done when it’s an absolute
necessity. I’ve got a large body of “hot work” under my belt, both line and
load side and will say that face shields and hot gloves saved my butt on
several occasions and I’ve got a nice scar on my neck from a molten piece
of lug from a main breaker that broke apart while I was tightening up it’s
mounting screw. Stuff happens. It’s always best to play it safe.



Michael Morningstar





On May 10, 2016, at 11:04 AM, Chris Mason <cometenergysyst...@gmail.com>
wrote:



This is what we use - we keep a selection in the van for difficult jobs.


Insulation Piercing Connector 2/0-10 AWG

Part #IPCS2001

Insulation Piercing Connector 2/0-10 AWG 2/0-4 Main, 10-14 AWG Tap, Dual
Rated AL9CU, Torque Limiting Nut



On Tue, May 10, 2016 at 1:27 PM, Kirpal Khalsa <solarwo...@gmail.com>wrote:

Hi Folks,

We have a job requiring a supply side connec

Re: [RE-wrenches] supply side connection - Tap connector recommendations

2016-05-11 Thread Jason Szumlanski 
Don't kill the messenger. I just answered your "why" question.

In Florida the "installer" (a licensed solar contractor) must subcontract
the AC interconnection to a licensed Electrical Contractor if the company
is not directly qualified by one. The "installer" would be wise to
subcontract that work to a well-qualified EC and make sure the work is done
by trained competent staff.

We do all kinds of dangerous and risky things in this industry. Installing
a UL listed tap intended for use under these conditions can be extremely
dangerous, but can also be done safely if conducted with the right safety
precautions by qualified personnel in my opinion. If a subcontracted EC or
any staff member deems the procedure unsafe, we would always err on the
side of caution and require a meter pull.

Jason


On Wed, May 11, 2016 at 10:12 AM, Shasta Daiku 
wrote:

> Yes, “I get” that there is inconvenience in coordinating  with the utility
> and inspectors, permitting, and power disruption. In my world that’s just a
> given part of the process. Of course there are circumstances where
> disconnecting a utility supply is nearly unavoidable, for instance, certain
> industrial processes that run 24/7. I am aware that the practice of
> installing line side taps on energized unfused conductors is common in the
> solar industry and always thought it pretty cavalier. I have to wonder just
> how many “installers” have had real training for live work and utilize
> proper personnel safety protection. Part of the classwork for this type of
> training is watching/viewing the results of things gone wrong, even when
> the best practices are applied. An indelible impression
> will certainly be imprinted, and an attitude of "avoiding the avoidable”
> second nature.
>
> Michael
>
> On May 11, 2016, at 5:24 AM, Jason Szumlanski <
> ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote:
>
> In some jurisdictions and for some utilities, pulling the meter is a MAJOR
> ordeal. Some jurisdictions require a "service change" permit on top of the
> solar permit just to have the meter pulled. It also requires getting an
> inspector out there at the perfect time to have it inspected so the the
> utility will re-install the meter. The homeowner is often without power for
> several hours, which is usually somewhere between inconvenient and
> unacceptable. Insulation piercing taps are extremely common around here for
> these reasons. With proper safety precautions and experience, I don't see
> any issue specifying and using them.
>
>
> Jason Szumlanski
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, May 11, 2016 at 12:26 AM, Shasta Daiku 
> wrote:
>
>> Kirpal, I’m curious what the reason is for making the tap on an energized
>> line. Why not have the meter pulled? While insulation piercing taps are
>> designed for “hot work”, there use for that should be limited to tapping
>> conductors that have OCP, and aren’t under load, with generous working
>> space, like in a piece of switch gear. Even in that situation, making taps
>> on energized conductors should only be done when it’s an absolute
>> necessity. I’ve got a large body of “hot work” under my belt, both line and
>> load side and will say that face shields and hot gloves saved my butt on
>> several occasions and I’ve got a nice scar on my neck from a molten piece
>> of lug from a main breaker that broke apart while I was tightening up it’s
>> mounting screw. Stuff happens. It’s always best to play it safe.
>>
>> Michael Morningstar
>>
>>
>> On May 10, 2016, at 11:04 AM, Chris Mason 
>> wrote:
>>
>> This is what we use - we keep a selection in the van for difficult jobs.
>>
>> Insulation Piercing Connector 2/0-10 AWG
>> Part #IPCS2001
>> Insulation Piercing Connector 2/0-10 AWG 2/0-4 Main, 10-14 AWG Tap, Dual
>> Rated AL9CU, Torque Limiting Nut
>>
>> On Tue, May 10, 2016 at 1:27 PM, Kirpal Khalsa 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Folks,
>>> We have a job requiring a supply side connection.  Wondering if anyone
>>> could share some makes and models for connectors connecting to the wires
>>> between a main meter and the main breakers in the electrical panel.
>>> Ideally it would be able to be done hot.
>>> I am also looking into the ConnectDer meter collar but will have to
>>> coordinate with the utility for that and am looking to keep things simple.
>>> Thank you
>>>
>>>
>>> Sunny Regards,
>>> Kirpal Khalsa
>>> Oregon LRT#25
>>> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
>>> Oregon Solarworks LLC
>>> www.oregonsolarworks.com
>>> 541-299-0402
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Chris Mason
>> NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™
>> Solar Design Engineer
>> Generac Generators Industrial technician
>>
>> www.cometsolar.com 
>> 264.235.5670
>> 869.662.5670
>> Skype: netconcepts
>>
>> __
>
>
>
___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

List Address:

Re: [RE-wrenches] supply side connection - Tap connector recommendations

2016-05-11 Thread Mac Lewis 
Hi Matt,

It is a utility requirement not an AHJ requirement, but you might be right
that they are just prohibited in the meter can.  I can't find the specific
wording in the metering standard at the moment.

On Wed, May 11, 2016 at 9:47 AM, Matt Partymiller <
m...@solar-energy-solutions.com> wrote:

> Mac,
>
> Is this a utility or AHJ prohibition?  In most jurisdictions we work in
> (not CO) the utilities prohibit taps in the meter base but take no
> responsibility for conductors once they leave the meter base.
>
> Matt
>
>
> On Wed, May 11, 2016 11:44 am, Mac Lewis wrote:
> > Hi Kirpal,
> >
> >
> > Sounds like you are well informed but I thought I'd throw this in just in
> >  case.  In Xcel Energy territory in Colorado they specifically prohibit
> > piercing taps for solar installations.  I'm not sure why, but you may
> > want to run it by the utility in case there happens to be some solar
> > specific regulation.
> >
> > Good Luck
> >
> >
> > On Wed, May 11, 2016 at 9:36 AM, Kirpal Khalsa 
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> >> Hi ShastaThank you for the reminder.  Safety first as they say!!
> >> Jason
> >> hit the nail on the headCoordinating with the local utility and
> >> inspector is what caused us to go the route of the insulation piercing
> >> taps in the first placeWe also considered the ConnectDer meter
> >> collar.I am sure we will use it in the futureThe local utility
> >> has not already approved their use and in the middle of a project we
> >> didn't want to break new ground. Luckily for us our experienced
> >> electrician will be making the hot taps, I will use the opportunity to
> >> remind them about safety Cheers!
> >>
> >>
> >> Sunny Regards,
> >> Kirpal Khalsa
> >> Oregon LRT#25
> >> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
> >> Oregon Solarworks LLC
> >> www.oregonsolarworks.com 541-299-0402
> >>
> >>
> >> On Wed, May 11, 2016 at 7:12 AM, Shasta Daiku 
> >>  wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>> Yes, “I get” that there is inconvenience in coordinating  with the
> >>> utility and inspectors, permitting, and power disruption. In my world
> >>> that’s just a given part of the process. Of course there are
> >>> circumstances where disconnecting a utility supply is nearly
> >>> unavoidable, for instance, certain industrial processes that run 24/7.
> >>> I am aware that the practice of
> >>> installing line side taps on energized unfused conductors is common in
> >>> the solar industry and always thought it pretty cavalier. I have to
> >>> wonder just how many “installers” have had real training for live work
> >>> and utilize proper personnel safety protection. Part of the classwork
> >>> for this type of training is watching/viewing the results of things
> >>> gone wrong, even when the best practices are applied. An indelible
> >>> impression will certainly be imprinted, and an attitude of "avoiding
> >>> the avoidable” second nature.
> >>>
> >>> Michael
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On May 11, 2016, at 5:24 AM, Jason Szumlanski <
> >>> ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> In some jurisdictions and for some utilities, pulling the meter is a
> >>> MAJOR ordeal. Some jurisdictions require a "service change" permit on
> >>> top of the solar permit just to have the meter pulled. It also
> >>> requires getting an inspector out there at the perfect time to have it
> >>> inspected so the the utility will re-install the meter. The homeowner
> >>> is often without power for several hours, which is usually somewhere
> >>> between inconvenient and unacceptable. Insulation piercing taps are
> >>> extremely common around here for these reasons. With proper safety
> >>> precautions and experience, I don't see any issue specifying and using
> >>> them.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Jason Szumlanski
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Wed, May 11, 2016 at 12:26 AM, Shasta Daiku
> >>> 
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
>  Kirpal, I’m curious what the reason is for making the tap on an
>  energized line. Why not have the meter pulled? While insulation
>  piercing taps are designed for “hot work”, there use for that should
>  be limited to tapping conductors that have OCP, and aren’t under
>  load, with generous working space, like in a piece of switch gear.
>  Even in that situation,
>  making taps on energized conductors should only be done when it’s an
>   absolute necessity. I’ve got a large body of “hot work” under my
>  belt, both line and load side and will say that face shields and hot
>  gloves saved my butt on several occasions and I’ve got a nice scar
>  on my neck from a molten piece of lug from a main breaker that broke
>  apart while I was tightening up it’s mounting screw. Stuff happens.
>  It’s always best to play it safe.
> 
> 
>  Michael Morningstar
> 
> 
> 
>  On May 10, 2016, at 11:04 AM, Chris Mason
>  
>  wrote:

Re: [RE-wrenches] supply side connection - Tap connector recommendations

2016-05-11 Thread Matt Partymiller 
Mac,

Is this a utility or AHJ prohibition?  In most jurisdictions we work in
(not CO) the utilities prohibit taps in the meter base but take no
responsibility for conductors once they leave the meter base.

Matt


On Wed, May 11, 2016 11:44 am, Mac Lewis wrote:
> Hi Kirpal,
>
>
> Sounds like you are well informed but I thought I'd throw this in just in
>  case.  In Xcel Energy territory in Colorado they specifically prohibit
> piercing taps for solar installations.  I'm not sure why, but you may
> want to run it by the utility in case there happens to be some solar
> specific regulation.
>
> Good Luck
>
>
> On Wed, May 11, 2016 at 9:36 AM, Kirpal Khalsa 
> wrote:
>
>
>> Hi ShastaThank you for the reminder.  Safety first as they say!!
>> Jason
>> hit the nail on the headCoordinating with the local utility and
>> inspector is what caused us to go the route of the insulation piercing
>> taps in the first placeWe also considered the ConnectDer meter
>> collar.I am sure we will use it in the futureThe local utility
>> has not already approved their use and in the middle of a project we
>> didn't want to break new ground. Luckily for us our experienced
>> electrician will be making the hot taps, I will use the opportunity to
>> remind them about safety Cheers!
>>
>>
>> Sunny Regards,
>> Kirpal Khalsa
>> Oregon LRT#25
>> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
>> Oregon Solarworks LLC
>> www.oregonsolarworks.com 541-299-0402
>>
>>
>> On Wed, May 11, 2016 at 7:12 AM, Shasta Daiku 
>>  wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Yes, “I get” that there is inconvenience in coordinating  with the
>>> utility and inspectors, permitting, and power disruption. In my world
>>> that’s just a given part of the process. Of course there are
>>> circumstances where disconnecting a utility supply is nearly
>>> unavoidable, for instance, certain industrial processes that run 24/7.
>>> I am aware that the practice of
>>> installing line side taps on energized unfused conductors is common in
>>> the solar industry and always thought it pretty cavalier. I have to
>>> wonder just how many “installers” have had real training for live work
>>> and utilize proper personnel safety protection. Part of the classwork
>>> for this type of training is watching/viewing the results of things
>>> gone wrong, even when the best practices are applied. An indelible
>>> impression will certainly be imprinted, and an attitude of "avoiding
>>> the avoidable” second nature.
>>>
>>> Michael
>>>
>>>
>>> On May 11, 2016, at 5:24 AM, Jason Szumlanski <
>>> ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> In some jurisdictions and for some utilities, pulling the meter is a
>>> MAJOR ordeal. Some jurisdictions require a "service change" permit on
>>> top of the solar permit just to have the meter pulled. It also
>>> requires getting an inspector out there at the perfect time to have it
>>> inspected so the the utility will re-install the meter. The homeowner
>>> is often without power for several hours, which is usually somewhere
>>> between inconvenient and unacceptable. Insulation piercing taps are
>>> extremely common around here for these reasons. With proper safety
>>> precautions and experience, I don't see any issue specifying and using
>>> them.
>>>
>>>
>>> Jason Szumlanski
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, May 11, 2016 at 12:26 AM, Shasta Daiku
>>> 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
 Kirpal, I’m curious what the reason is for making the tap on an
 energized line. Why not have the meter pulled? While insulation
 piercing taps are designed for “hot work”, there use for that should
 be limited to tapping conductors that have OCP, and aren’t under
 load, with generous working space, like in a piece of switch gear.
 Even in that situation,
 making taps on energized conductors should only be done when it’s an
  absolute necessity. I’ve got a large body of “hot work” under my
 belt, both line and load side and will say that face shields and hot
 gloves saved my butt on several occasions and I’ve got a nice scar
 on my neck from a molten piece of lug from a main breaker that broke
 apart while I was tightening up it’s mounting screw. Stuff happens.
 It’s always best to play it safe.


 Michael Morningstar



 On May 10, 2016, at 11:04 AM, Chris Mason
 
 wrote:


 This is what we use - we keep a selection in the van for difficult
 jobs.

 Insulation Piercing Connector 2/0-10 AWG
 Part #IPCS2001
 Insulation Piercing Connector 2/0-10 AWG 2/0-4 Main, 10-14 AWG Tap,
 Dual
 Rated AL9CU, Torque Limiting Nut


 On Tue, May 10, 2016 at 1:27 PM, Kirpal Khalsa
 
 wrote:


> Hi Folks,
> We have a job requiring a supply side connection.  Wondering if
> anyone could share some makes and models

Re: [RE-wrenches] supply side connection - Tap connector recommendations

2016-05-11 Thread Mac Lewis 
Hi Kirpal,

Sounds like you are well informed but I thought I'd throw this in just in
case.  In Xcel Energy territory in Colorado they specifically prohibit
piercing taps for solar installations.  I'm not sure why, but you may want
to run it by the utility in case there happens to be some solar specific
regulation.

Good Luck

On Wed, May 11, 2016 at 9:36 AM, Kirpal Khalsa  wrote:

> Hi ShastaThank you for the reminder.  Safety first as they say!! Jason
> hit the nail on the headCoordinating with the local utility and
> inspector is what caused us to go the route of the insulation piercing taps
> in the first placeWe also considered the ConnectDer meter collar.I
> am sure we will use it in the futureThe local utility has not already
> approved their use and in the middle of a project we didn't want to break
> new ground.
> Luckily for us our experienced electrician will be making the hot taps, I
> will use the opportunity to remind them about safety
> Cheers!
>
> Sunny Regards,
> Kirpal Khalsa
> Oregon LRT#25
> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
> Oregon Solarworks LLC
> www.oregonsolarworks.com
> 541-299-0402
>
> On Wed, May 11, 2016 at 7:12 AM, Shasta Daiku 
> wrote:
>
>> Yes, “I get” that there is inconvenience in coordinating  with the
>> utility and inspectors, permitting, and power disruption. In my world
>> that’s just a given part of the process. Of course there are circumstances
>> where disconnecting a utility supply is nearly unavoidable, for instance,
>> certain industrial processes that run 24/7. I am aware that the practice of
>> installing line side taps on energized unfused conductors is common in the
>> solar industry and always thought it pretty cavalier. I have to wonder just
>> how many “installers” have had real training for live work and utilize
>> proper personnel safety protection. Part of the classwork for this type of
>> training is watching/viewing the results of things gone wrong, even when
>> the best practices are applied. An indelible impression
>> will certainly be imprinted, and an attitude of "avoiding the avoidable”
>> second nature.
>>
>> Michael
>>
>> On May 11, 2016, at 5:24 AM, Jason Szumlanski <
>> ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote:
>>
>> In some jurisdictions and for some utilities, pulling the meter is a
>> MAJOR ordeal. Some jurisdictions require a "service change" permit on top
>> of the solar permit just to have the meter pulled. It also requires getting
>> an inspector out there at the perfect time to have it inspected so the the
>> utility will re-install the meter. The homeowner is often without power for
>> several hours, which is usually somewhere between inconvenient and
>> unacceptable. Insulation piercing taps are extremely common around here for
>> these reasons. With proper safety precautions and experience, I don't see
>> any issue specifying and using them.
>>
>>
>> Jason Szumlanski
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, May 11, 2016 at 12:26 AM, Shasta Daiku 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Kirpal, I’m curious what the reason is for making the tap on an
>>> energized line. Why not have the meter pulled? While insulation piercing
>>> taps are designed for “hot work”, there use for that should be limited to
>>> tapping conductors that have OCP, and aren’t under load, with generous
>>> working space, like in a piece of switch gear. Even in that situation,
>>> making taps on energized conductors should only be done when it’s an
>>> absolute necessity. I’ve got a large body of “hot work” under my belt, both
>>> line and load side and will say that face shields and hot gloves saved my
>>> butt on several occasions and I’ve got a nice scar on my neck from a molten
>>> piece of lug from a main breaker that broke apart while I was tightening up
>>> it’s mounting screw. Stuff happens. It’s always best to play it safe.
>>>
>>> Michael Morningstar
>>>
>>>
>>> On May 10, 2016, at 11:04 AM, Chris Mason 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> This is what we use - we keep a selection in the van for difficult jobs.
>>>
>>> Insulation Piercing Connector 2/0-10 AWG
>>> Part #IPCS2001
>>> Insulation Piercing Connector 2/0-10 AWG 2/0-4 Main, 10-14 AWG Tap, Dual
>>> Rated AL9CU, Torque Limiting Nut
>>>
>>> On Tue, May 10, 2016 at 1:27 PM, Kirpal Khalsa 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Hi Folks,
 We have a job requiring a supply side connection.  Wondering if anyone
 could share some makes and models for connectors connecting to the wires
 between a main meter and the main breakers in the electrical panel.
 Ideally it would be able to be done hot.
 I am also looking into the ConnectDer meter collar but will have to
 coordinate with the utility for that and am looking to keep things simple.
 Thank you


 Sunny Regards,
 Kirpal Khalsa
 Oregon LRT#25
 NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
 Oregon

Re: [RE-wrenches] supply side connection - Tap connector recommendations

2016-05-11 Thread Kirpal Khalsa 
Hi ShastaThank you for the reminder.  Safety first as they say!! Jason
hit the nail on the headCoordinating with the local utility and
inspector is what caused us to go the route of the insulation piercing taps
in the first placeWe also considered the ConnectDer meter collar.I
am sure we will use it in the futureThe local utility has not already
approved their use and in the middle of a project we didn't want to break
new ground.
Luckily for us our experienced electrician will be making the hot taps, I
will use the opportunity to remind them about safety
Cheers!

Sunny Regards,
Kirpal Khalsa
Oregon LRT#25
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
Oregon Solarworks LLC
www.oregonsolarworks.com
541-299-0402

On Wed, May 11, 2016 at 7:12 AM, Shasta Daiku 
wrote:

> Yes, “I get” that there is inconvenience in coordinating  with the utility
> and inspectors, permitting, and power disruption. In my world that’s just a
> given part of the process. Of course there are circumstances where
> disconnecting a utility supply is nearly unavoidable, for instance, certain
> industrial processes that run 24/7. I am aware that the practice of
> installing line side taps on energized unfused conductors is common in the
> solar industry and always thought it pretty cavalier. I have to wonder just
> how many “installers” have had real training for live work and utilize
> proper personnel safety protection. Part of the classwork for this type of
> training is watching/viewing the results of things gone wrong, even when
> the best practices are applied. An indelible impression
> will certainly be imprinted, and an attitude of "avoiding the avoidable”
> second nature.
>
> Michael
>
> On May 11, 2016, at 5:24 AM, Jason Szumlanski <
> ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote:
>
> In some jurisdictions and for some utilities, pulling the meter is a MAJOR
> ordeal. Some jurisdictions require a "service change" permit on top of the
> solar permit just to have the meter pulled. It also requires getting an
> inspector out there at the perfect time to have it inspected so the the
> utility will re-install the meter. The homeowner is often without power for
> several hours, which is usually somewhere between inconvenient and
> unacceptable. Insulation piercing taps are extremely common around here for
> these reasons. With proper safety precautions and experience, I don't see
> any issue specifying and using them.
>
>
> Jason Szumlanski
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, May 11, 2016 at 12:26 AM, Shasta Daiku 
> wrote:
>
>> Kirpal, I’m curious what the reason is for making the tap on an energized
>> line. Why not have the meter pulled? While insulation piercing taps are
>> designed for “hot work”, there use for that should be limited to tapping
>> conductors that have OCP, and aren’t under load, with generous working
>> space, like in a piece of switch gear. Even in that situation, making taps
>> on energized conductors should only be done when it’s an absolute
>> necessity. I’ve got a large body of “hot work” under my belt, both line and
>> load side and will say that face shields and hot gloves saved my butt on
>> several occasions and I’ve got a nice scar on my neck from a molten piece
>> of lug from a main breaker that broke apart while I was tightening up it’s
>> mounting screw. Stuff happens. It’s always best to play it safe.
>>
>> Michael Morningstar
>>
>>
>> On May 10, 2016, at 11:04 AM, Chris Mason 
>> wrote:
>>
>> This is what we use - we keep a selection in the van for difficult jobs.
>>
>> Insulation Piercing Connector 2/0-10 AWG
>> Part #IPCS2001
>> Insulation Piercing Connector 2/0-10 AWG 2/0-4 Main, 10-14 AWG Tap, Dual
>> Rated AL9CU, Torque Limiting Nut
>>
>> On Tue, May 10, 2016 at 1:27 PM, Kirpal Khalsa 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Folks,
>>> We have a job requiring a supply side connection.  Wondering if anyone
>>> could share some makes and models for connectors connecting to the wires
>>> between a main meter and the main breakers in the electrical panel.
>>> Ideally it would be able to be done hot.
>>> I am also looking into the ConnectDer meter collar but will have to
>>> coordinate with the utility for that and am looking to keep things simple.
>>> Thank you
>>>
>>>
>>> Sunny Regards,
>>> Kirpal Khalsa
>>> Oregon LRT#25
>>> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
>>> Oregon Solarworks LLC
>>> www.oregonsolarworks.com
>>> 541-299-0402
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Chris Mason
>> NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™
>> Solar Design Engineer
>> Generac Generators Industrial technician
>>
>> www.cometsolar.com 
>> 264.235.5670
>> 869.662.5670
>> Skype: netconcepts
>>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] supply side connection - Tap connector recommendations

2016-05-11 Thread Shasta Daiku 
Yes, “I get” that there is inconvenience in coordinating  with the utility and 
inspectors, permitting, and power disruption. In my world that’s just a given 
part of the process. Of course there are circumstances where disconnecting a 
utility supply is nearly unavoidable, for instance, certain industrial 
processes that run 24/7. I am aware that the practice of installing line side 
taps on energized unfused conductors is common in the solar industry and always 
thought it pretty cavalier. I have to wonder just how many “installers” have 
had real training for live work and utilize proper personnel safety protection. 
Part of the classwork for this type of training is watching/viewing the results 
of things gone wrong, even when the best practices are applied. An indelible 
impression
will certainly be imprinted, and an attitude of "avoiding the avoidable” second 
nature.

Michael 

> On May 11, 2016, at 5:24 AM, Jason Szumlanski 
>  wrote:
> 
> In some jurisdictions and for some utilities, pulling the meter is a MAJOR 
> ordeal. Some jurisdictions require a "service change" permit on top of the 
> solar permit just to have the meter pulled. It also requires getting an 
> inspector out there at the perfect time to have it inspected so the the 
> utility will re-install the meter. The homeowner is often without power for 
> several hours, which is usually somewhere between inconvenient and 
> unacceptable. Insulation piercing taps are extremely common around here for 
> these reasons. With proper safety precautions and experience, I don't see any 
> issue specifying and using them.
> 
> 
> Jason Szumlanski
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, May 11, 2016 at 12:26 AM, Shasta Daiku  > wrote:
> Kirpal, I’m curious what the reason is for making the tap on an energized 
> line. Why not have the meter pulled? While insulation piercing taps are 
> designed for “hot work”, there use for that should be limited to tapping 
> conductors that have OCP, and aren’t under load, with generous working space, 
> like in a piece of switch gear. Even in that situation, making taps on 
> energized conductors should only be done when it’s an absolute necessity. 
> I’ve got a large body of “hot work” under my belt, both line and load side 
> and will say that face shields and hot gloves saved my butt on several 
> occasions and I’ve got a nice scar on my neck from a molten piece of lug from 
> a main breaker that broke apart while I was tightening up it’s mounting 
> screw. Stuff happens. It’s always best to play it safe.
> 
> Michael Morningstar
> 
> 
>> On May 10, 2016, at 11:04 AM, Chris Mason > > wrote:
>> 
>> This is what we use - we keep a selection in the van for difficult jobs.
>> 
>> Insulation Piercing Connector 2/0-10 AWG
>> 
>> Part #IPCS2001
>> Insulation Piercing Connector 2/0-10 AWG 2/0-4 Main, 10-14 AWG Tap, Dual 
>> Rated AL9CU, Torque Limiting Nut
>> 
>> On Tue, May 10, 2016 at 1:27 PM, Kirpal Khalsa > >wrote:
>> Hi Folks, 
>> We have a job requiring a supply side connection.  Wondering if anyone could 
>> share some makes and models for connectors connecting to the wires between a 
>> main meter and the main breakers in the electrical panel.  Ideally it would 
>> be able to be done hot.  
>> I am also looking into the ConnectDer meter collar but will have to 
>> coordinate with the utility for that and am looking to keep things simple.  
>> Thank you
>> 
>> 
>> Sunny Regards,
>> Kirpal Khalsa
>> Oregon LRT#25
>> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
>> Oregon Solarworks LLC
>> www.oregonsolarworks.com 
>> 541-299-0402 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Chris Mason
>> NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™
>> Solar Design Engineer
>> Generac Generators Industrial technician
>> 
>> www.cometsolar.com 
>> 264.235.5670 
>> 869.662.5670 
>> Skype: netconcepts
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Re: [RE-wrenches] supply side connection - Tap connector recommendations

2016-05-11 Thread Jason Szumlanski 
In some jurisdictions and for some utilities, pulling the meter is a MAJOR
ordeal. Some jurisdictions require a "service change" permit on top of the
solar permit just to have the meter pulled. It also requires getting an
inspector out there at the perfect time to have it inspected so the the
utility will re-install the meter. The homeowner is often without power for
several hours, which is usually somewhere between inconvenient and
unacceptable. Insulation piercing taps are extremely common around here for
these reasons. With proper safety precautions and experience, I don't see
any issue specifying and using them.


Jason Szumlanski




On Wed, May 11, 2016 at 12:26 AM, Shasta Daiku 
wrote:

> Kirpal, I’m curious what the reason is for making the tap on an energized
> line. Why not have the meter pulled? While insulation piercing taps are
> designed for “hot work”, there use for that should be limited to tapping
> conductors that have OCP, and aren’t under load, with generous working
> space, like in a piece of switch gear. Even in that situation, making taps
> on energized conductors should only be done when it’s an absolute
> necessity. I’ve got a large body of “hot work” under my belt, both line and
> load side and will say that face shields and hot gloves saved my butt on
> several occasions and I’ve got a nice scar on my neck from a molten piece
> of lug from a main breaker that broke apart while I was tightening up it’s
> mounting screw. Stuff happens. It’s always best to play it safe.
>
> Michael Morningstar
>
>
> On May 10, 2016, at 11:04 AM, Chris Mason 
> wrote:
>
> This is what we use - we keep a selection in the van for difficult jobs.
>
> Insulation Piercing Connector 2/0-10 AWG
> Part #IPCS2001
> Insulation Piercing Connector 2/0-10 AWG 2/0-4 Main, 10-14 AWG Tap, Dual
> Rated AL9CU, Torque Limiting Nut
>
> On Tue, May 10, 2016 at 1:27 PM, Kirpal Khalsa 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Folks,
>> We have a job requiring a supply side connection.  Wondering if anyone
>> could share some makes and models for connectors connecting to the wires
>> between a main meter and the main breakers in the electrical panel.
>> Ideally it would be able to be done hot.
>> I am also looking into the ConnectDer meter collar but will have to
>> coordinate with the utility for that and am looking to keep things simple.
>> Thank you
>>
>>
>> Sunny Regards,
>> Kirpal Khalsa
>> Oregon LRT#25
>> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
>> Oregon Solarworks LLC
>> www.oregonsolarworks.com
>> 541-299-0402
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Chris Mason
> NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™
> Solar Design Engineer
> Generac Generators Industrial technician
>
> www.cometsolar.com 
> 264.235.5670
> 869.662.5670
> Skype: netconcepts
>
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] supply side connection - Tap connector recommendations

2016-05-10 Thread Shasta Daiku 
Kirpal, I’m curious what the reason is for making the tap on an energized line. 
Why not have the meter pulled? While insulation piercing taps are designed for 
“hot work”, there use for that should be limited to tapping conductors that 
have OCP, and aren’t under load, with generous working space, like in a piece 
of switch gear. Even in that situation, making taps on energized conductors 
should only be done when it’s an absolute necessity. I’ve got a large body of 
“hot work” under my belt, both line and load side and will say that face 
shields and hot gloves saved my butt on several occasions and I’ve got a nice 
scar on my neck from a molten piece of lug from a main breaker that broke apart 
while I was tightening up it’s mounting screw. Stuff happens. It’s always best 
to play it safe.

Michael Morningstar

> On May 10, 2016, at 11:04 AM, Chris Mason  
> wrote:
> 
> This is what we use - we keep a selection in the van for difficult jobs.
> 
> Insulation Piercing Connector 2/0-10 AWG
> 
> Part #IPCS2001
> Insulation Piercing Connector 2/0-10 AWG 2/0-4 Main, 10-14 AWG Tap, Dual 
> Rated AL9CU, Torque Limiting Nut
> 
> On Tue, May 10, 2016 at 1:27 PM, Kirpal Khalsa  > wrote:
> Hi Folks, 
> We have a job requiring a supply side connection.  Wondering if anyone could 
> share some makes and models for connectors connecting to the wires between a 
> main meter and the main breakers in the electrical panel.  Ideally it would 
> be able to be done hot.  
> I am also looking into the ConnectDer meter collar but will have to 
> coordinate with the utility for that and am looking to keep things simple.  
> Thank you
> 
> 
> Sunny Regards,
> Kirpal Khalsa
> Oregon LRT#25
> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
> Oregon Solarworks LLC
> www.oregonsolarworks.com 
> 541-299-0402 
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> 
> 
> -- 
> Chris Mason
> NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™
> Solar Design Engineer
> Generac Generators Industrial technician
> 
> www.cometsolar.com 
> 264.235.5670
> 869.662.5670
> Skype: netconcepts
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Re: [RE-wrenches] supply side connection - Tap connector recommendations

2016-05-10 Thread Chris Mason 
This is what we use - we keep a selection in the van for difficult jobs.

Insulation Piercing Connector 2/0-10 AWG
Part #IPCS2001
Insulation Piercing Connector 2/0-10 AWG 2/0-4 Main, 10-14 AWG Tap, Dual
Rated AL9CU, Torque Limiting Nut

On Tue, May 10, 2016 at 1:27 PM, Kirpal Khalsa  wrote:

> Hi Folks,
> We have a job requiring a supply side connection.  Wondering if anyone
> could share some makes and models for connectors connecting to the wires
> between a main meter and the main breakers in the electrical panel.
> Ideally it would be able to be done hot.
> I am also looking into the ConnectDer meter collar but will have to
> coordinate with the utility for that and am looking to keep things simple.
> Thank you
>
>
> Sunny Regards,
> Kirpal Khalsa
> Oregon LRT#25
> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
> Oregon Solarworks LLC
> www.oregonsolarworks.com
> 541-299-0402
>
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-- 
Chris Mason
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™
Solar Design Engineer
Generac Generators Industrial technician

www.cometsolar.com 
264.235.5670
869.662.5670
Skype: netconcepts
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Re: [RE-wrenches] supply side connection - Tap connector recommendations

2016-05-10 Thread Kirpal Khalsa 
Matt...Thank you!!! That is what I was after.They are ordered and on
their way.
Cheers!

Sunny Regards,
Kirpal Khalsa
Oregon LRT#25
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
Oregon Solarworks LLC
www.oregonsolarworks.com
541-299-0402

On Tue, May 10, 2016 at 10:45 AM, Matt Partymiller <
m...@solar-energy-solutions.com> wrote:

> Ilsco has some great options.  See:
>
>
> https://www.platt.com/CutSheets/Ilsco/Ilsco-InsulationPiercingConnectors-CatalogPage.pdf
>
> Matt
>
> Matthew Partymiller
> Solar Energy Solutions LLC
> (877) 312-7456
> m...@solar-energy-solutions.com
>
> On Tue, May 10, 2016 1:27 pm, Kirpal Khalsa wrote:
> > Hi Folks,
> > We have a job requiring a supply side connection.  Wondering if anyone
> > could share some makes and models for connectors connecting to the wires
> > between a main meter and the main breakers in the electrical panel.
> > Ideally it would be able to be done hot.
> > I am also looking into the ConnectDer meter collar but will have to
> > coordinate with the utility for that and am looking to keep things
> simple.
> >  Thank you
> >
> >
> >
> > Sunny Regards,
> > Kirpal Khalsa
> > Oregon LRT#25
> > NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
> > Oregon Solarworks LLC
> > www.oregonsolarworks.com 541-299-0402
> > ___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] supply side connection - Tap connector recommendations

2016-05-10 Thread Matt Partymiller 
Ilsco has some great options.  See:

https://www.platt.com/CutSheets/Ilsco/Ilsco-InsulationPiercingConnectors-CatalogPage.pdf

Matt

Matthew Partymiller
Solar Energy Solutions LLC
(877) 312-7456
m...@solar-energy-solutions.com

On Tue, May 10, 2016 1:27 pm, Kirpal Khalsa wrote:
> Hi Folks,
> We have a job requiring a supply side connection.  Wondering if anyone
> could share some makes and models for connectors connecting to the wires
> between a main meter and the main breakers in the electrical panel.
> Ideally it would be able to be done hot.
> I am also looking into the ConnectDer meter collar but will have to
> coordinate with the utility for that and am looking to keep things simple.
>  Thank you
>
>
>
> Sunny Regards,
> Kirpal Khalsa
> Oregon LRT#25
> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
> Oregon Solarworks LLC
> www.oregonsolarworks.com 541-299-0402
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[RE-wrenches] supply side connection - Tap connector recommendations

2016-05-10 Thread Kirpal Khalsa 
Hi Folks,
We have a job requiring a supply side connection.  Wondering if anyone
could share some makes and models for connectors connecting to the wires
between a main meter and the main breakers in the electrical panel.
Ideally it would be able to be done hot.
I am also looking into the ConnectDer meter collar but will have to
coordinate with the utility for that and am looking to keep things simple.
Thank you


Sunny Regards,
Kirpal Khalsa
Oregon LRT#25
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
Oregon Solarworks LLC
www.oregonsolarworks.com
541-299-0402
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