Re: [RE-wrenches] Growatt 5k inverter w/ transformer, more China junk?

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar]

We want to see the certificate of compliance for UL and all the good
paperwork for power system electronics, especially offgrid. 

Most in the
Sierra can't get fire insurance so we build even better redundant systems
with that in mind. I do not care so much where the equipmens origin is as
much as the company behind it. I like it when a company diversifies it's
manufacturing to many countries.  

This plays really well right now in the
times of C19 and supply lines being strained. Trying also to keep an open
mind about the Chinese government. Weird how certain items have back-logs
also these days.  

Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines
don't"
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ [1]
e-mail offgridso...@sti.net
[2]
text 209 813 0060

On Tue, 5 Jan 2021 08:56:16 -0500, Chris Sparadeo 
wrote:  I totally get that most off-grid jobs won't be inspected, however
isn't it still a good idea for components to carry a UL listing in the
event of a fire? It seems like an easy thing for a fire
investigator/insurance company to pick out, even if it was not the origin
of the fire. That's been a (perhaps self made) deterrent for me over the
years. Any thoughts?  
  On Tue, Jan 5, 2021 at 8:38 AM Chris Mason  wrote:
The Growatt inverters are top quality, they ship a huge amount of
inverters. They make US models in split phase. What happened here is the
client ordered something he knew nothing about from a vendor that also knew
nothing. I run into this all the time. That's what we get the big bucks
for. We buy a lot of chinese inverters for different islands. If we want
230V 2 wire to suit the island, that's what we order. In some cases we
order 120V, some are 240V split phase, and some are 230V.  If it's
off-grid, will there be a requirement for UL listing? I would not worry
about the quality of the inverter, they are excellent. I would worry about
the design. If you are not confident, walk away. You will be expected to
make it work or keep trying, and the damage to your reputation if it all
fails will be hard to counter. The client is never wrong.  
  On Mon, Jan
4, 2021 at 7:33 PM Chris Schaefer  wrote:  G'Day and Happy New Year's All, 
Just wanted to share this with you all. A potential client purchased a
somewhat complete system off the internet and is now seeking an installer.
I know, same old story. The package came with two Growatt SPF-5000 ES
inverters with two Huawei HW-TX-5000 transformers. The twist to the story
is apparently the inverters put out 230vac on a single leg and the
transformers are required to split the 240vac into two legs of 120. I've
never come across an inverter like this. As an off gridder the first thing
I think of is the inefficiencies of the additional transformers to do
something like this when we have plenty of manufacturers that don't require
this. I'd love to hear your thoughts on this setup and possible experiences
and pitfalls to beware of.   PS the client is kicking themselves in the
butt, lol.   Gratefully, Christopher--

Chris Schaefer's
Tel/Fax
585-229-2083 or Cell 585-748-1870 
5115 South Hill Road [6] ~ Canandaigua
New York 14424
_www.solarandwindfx.com [7] ~ E-mail:
ch...@solarandwindfx.com [8]_ 

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[5]

Re: [RE-wrenches] Growatt 5k inverter w/ transformer, more China junk?

[Chris Sparadeo]

I totally get that most off-grid jobs won’t be inspected, however isn’t it
still a good idea for components to carry a UL listing in the event of a
fire? It seems like an easy thing for a fire investigator/insurance company
to pick out, even if it was not the origin of the fire. That’s been a
(perhaps self made) deterrent for me over the years. Any thoughts?

On Tue, Jan 5, 2021 at 8:38 AM Chris Mason 
wrote:

> The Growatt inverters are top quality, they ship a huge amount of
> inverters. They make US models in split phase. What happened here is the
> client ordered something he knew nothing about from a vendor that also
> knew nothing. I run into this all the time. That's what we get the big
> bucks for.
> We buy a lot of chinese inverters for different islands. If we want 230V 2
> wire to suit the island, that's what we order. In some cases we order 120V,
> some are 240V split phase, and some are 230V.
> If it's off-grid, will there be a requirement for UL listing? I would not
> worry about the quality of the inverter, they are excellent. I would worry
> about the design. If you are not confident, walk away. You will be expected
> to make it work or keep trying, and the damage to your reputation if it all
> fails will be hard to counter. The client is never wrong.
>
> On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 7:33 PM Chris Schaefer 
> wrote:
>
>> G'Day and Happy New Year's All,
>>
>> Just wanted to share this with you all. A potential client purchased a
>> somewhat complete system off the internet and is now seeking an installer.
>> I know, same old story. The package came with two Growatt SPF-5000 ES
>> inverters with two Huawei HW-TX-5000 transformers.  The twist to the story
>> is apparently the inverters put out 230vac on a single leg and the
>> transformers are required to split the 240vac into two legs of 120. I've
>> never come across an inverter like this. As an off gridder the first thing
>> I think of is the inefficiencies of the additional transformers to do
>> something like this when we have plenty of manufacturers that don't require
>> this. I'd love to hear your thoughts on this setup and possible experiences
>> and pitfalls to beware of.
>>
>> PS the client is kicking themselves in the butt, lol.
>>
>> Gratefully,
>> Christopher--
>>
>> Chris Schaefer’s
>> 
>>
>> *Tel/Fax 585-229-2083 or Cell 585-748-1870 *
>> *5115 South Hill Road
>> 
>> ~ Canandaigua New York 14424**www.solarandwindfx.com
>>  ~ E-mail: ch...@solarandwindfx.com
>> *
>>
>>
>> Thomas Jefferson, the author of our great Constitution, once said,
>> "democracy" will cease to exist when you take away from those who are
>> willing to work and give to those who would not."
>> ___
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>
>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
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>>
>
> --
> Chris Mason
> Solar systems designer
> Generac Generators Industrial technician
>
> Comet Systems Ltd DBA Comet Solar
> Anguilla Cell  264.235.5670
> WhatsApp 264.235.5670
> Skype: netconcepts
> www.cometsolar.com 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Growatt 5k inverter w/ transformer, more China junk?

[Chris Mason]

The Growatt inverters are top quality, they ship a huge amount of
inverters. They make US models in split phase. What happened here is the
client ordered something he knew nothing about from a vendor that also
knew nothing. I run into this all the time. That's what we get the big
bucks for.
We buy a lot of chinese inverters for different islands. If we want 230V 2
wire to suit the island, that's what we order. In some cases we order 120V,
some are 240V split phase, and some are 230V.
If it's off-grid, will there be a requirement for UL listing? I would not
worry about the quality of the inverter, they are excellent. I would worry
about the design. If you are not confident, walk away. You will be expected
to make it work or keep trying, and the damage to your reputation if it all
fails will be hard to counter. The client is never wrong.

On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 7:33 PM Chris Schaefer 
wrote:

> G'Day and Happy New Year's All,
>
> Just wanted to share this with you all. A potential client purchased a
> somewhat complete system off the internet and is now seeking an installer.
> I know, same old story. The package came with two Growatt SPF-5000 ES
> inverters with two Huawei HW-TX-5000 transformers.  The twist to the story
> is apparently the inverters put out 230vac on a single leg and the
> transformers are required to split the 240vac into two legs of 120. I've
> never come across an inverter like this. As an off gridder the first thing
> I think of is the inefficiencies of the additional transformers to do
> something like this when we have plenty of manufacturers that don't require
> this. I'd love to hear your thoughts on this setup and possible experiences
> and pitfalls to beware of.
>
> PS the client is kicking themselves in the butt, lol.
>
> Gratefully,
> Christopher--
>
> Chris Schaefer’s
> 
>
> *Tel/Fax 585-229-2083 or Cell 585-748-1870 *
> *5115 South Hill Road ~ Canandaigua New York 14424**www.solarandwindfx.com
>  ~ E-mail: ch...@solarandwindfx.com
> *
>
>
> Thomas Jefferson, the author of our great Constitution, once said,
> "democracy" will cease to exist when you take away from those who are
> willing to work and give to those who would not."
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
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>

-- 
Chris Mason
Solar systems designer
Generac Generators Industrial technician

Comet Systems Ltd DBA Comet Solar
Anguilla Cell  264.235.5670
WhatsApp 264.235.5670
Skype: netconcepts
www.cometsolar.com 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Growatt 5k inverter w/ transformer, more China junk?

[Ray]

20 years ago, I thought I had to fix every solar problem that crossed my 
path.  I've since gone into a 12 step recovery program, and have 
successfully stayed "solar sober" for the past decade, with only a very 
occasional relapse.  The Wrenches list has many a recovering 
"solarholic" among its ranks. Listen to them. You just don't want the 
responsibility or the call backs.  My customers that I set up with all 
the right equipment hardly ever have problems, but the few orphaned 
systems I've inherited, have a couple of problems a year.  Its not just 
your sanity, its for your customers as well.  If they're just playing 
around with it/ weekend fun, that's one thing, but if this is Home Sweet 
Home for multiple fellow Americans, they deserve better.


Sounds like a Euro spec (230 vac single phase) inverter that they 
switched the frequency from 50 Hz to 60 Hz. Even if this is a good brand 
over seas, its not the right voltage, its not UL listed, and you have no 
tech support. (What could possibly go wrong?)


We get a couple calls a month from folks that got a 'deal on the 
internet'.  We don't even take them anymore even if its installing good 
equipment. It's still 1/2 the money, for double the work. And one last 
thing: folks that are trying to cheap out are on average going to be 
less likely to appreciate and pay for your expertise.


Just curious, who sold this to them?

Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760

On 1/4/21 6:56 PM, jay wrote:

I just was looking at them the other day.  They do make US versions.

I don’t think they are junk, Growatt is one if not the largest 
inverter company in the world.


jay

On Jan 4, 2021, at 4:33 PM, Chris Schaefer > wrote:


G'Day and Happy New Year's All,

Just wanted to share this with you all. A potential client purchased 
a somewhat complete system off the internet and is now seeking an 
installer. I know, same old story. The package came with two Growatt 
SPF-5000 ES inverters with two Huawei HW-TX-5000 transformers. The 
twist to the story is apparently the inverters put out 230vac on a 
single leg and the transformers are required to split the 240vac into 
two legs of 120. I've never come across an inverter like this. As an 
off gridder the first thing I think of is the inefficiencies of the 
additional transformers to do something like this when we have plenty 
of manufacturers that don't require this. I'd love to hear your 
thoughts on this setup and possible experiences and pitfalls to 
beware of.


PS the client is kicking themselves in the butt, lol.

Gratefully,
Christopher--

Chris Schaefer’s

/Tel/Fax 585-229-2083 or Cell 585-748-1870
//5115 South Hill Road ~ Canandaigua New York 14424
//www.solarandwindfx.com  ~ E-mail: 
ch...@solarandwindfx.com /


/
/

Thomas Jefferson, the author of our great Constitution, once said, 
"democracy" will cease to exist when you take away from those who are 
willing to work and give to those who would not."


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Growatt 5k inverter w/ transformer, more China junk?

[Dan Fink]

Chris;
Of course as Kent points out, the equipment does not appear to be UL
listed, so would not pass inspection. But, I realize there are situations
where a UL listing is not required. It appears to me that the
Growatt/Huawei setup this person bought is very similar to the architecture
of the SolarEdge StorEdge solution. It uses an autotransformer in exactly
the same way, to split 240VAC output into a pair of 120VAC legs, but the SE
AT is only needed when powering household loads from only the battery bank.

In a purely off-grid situation, of course this would be all the time. But
autotransformers are certainly more efficient than dual winding
transformers, and I think the In/Out voltage ratio would be low if the
secondary is simply dual tappedbut that is WAY beyond my pay grade.
Perhaps you can glean some efficiency info from the StorEdge documentation,
or even better, from one of the power electronics experts here.

All in all, though, a great example of how NOT to design an off grid
system, as you've likely already informed the potential client!

Dan Fink
Owner, Buckville Energy Consulting LLC
NABCEP Certified PV System Inspector
NABCEP PV Associate
NABCEP Registered Continuing Education Providers
d anbo...@gmail.com
970-672-4342




On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 4:33 PM Chris Schaefer 
wrote:

> G'Day and Happy New Year's All,
>
> Just wanted to share this with you all. A potential client purchased a
> somewhat complete system off the internet and is now seeking an installer.
> I know, same old story. The package came with two Growatt SPF-5000 ES
> inverters with two Huawei HW-TX-5000 transformers.  The twist to the story
> is apparently the inverters put out 230vac on a single leg and the
> transformers are required to split the 240vac into two legs of 120. I've
> never come across an inverter like this. As an off gridder the first thing
> I think of is the inefficiencies of the additional transformers to do
> something like this when we have plenty of manufacturers that don't require
> this. I'd love to hear your thoughts on this setup and possible experiences
> and pitfalls to beware of.
>
> PS the client is kicking themselves in the butt, lol.
>
> Gratefully,
> Christopher--
>
> Chris Schaefer’s
> 
>
> *Tel/Fax 585-229-2083 or Cell 585-748-1870 *
> *5115 South Hill Road ~ Canandaigua New York 14424**www.solarandwindfx.com
>  ~ E-mail: ch...@solarandwindfx.com
> *
>
>
> Thomas Jefferson, the author of our great Constitution, once said,
> "democracy" will cease to exist when you take away from those who are
> willing to work and give to those who would not."
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Growatt 5k inverter w/ transformer, more China junk?

[jay]

I just was looking at them the other day.  They do make US versions.  

I don’t think they are junk, Growatt is one if not the largest inverter company 
in the world.

jay

> On Jan 4, 2021, at 4:33 PM, Chris Schaefer  wrote:
> 
> G'Day and Happy New Year's All,
> 
> Just wanted to share this with you all. A potential client purchased a 
> somewhat complete system off the internet and is now seeking an installer. I 
> know, same old story. The package came with two Growatt SPF-5000 ES inverters 
> with two Huawei HW-TX-5000 transformers.  The twist to the story is 
> apparently the inverters put out 230vac on a single leg and the transformers 
> are required to split the 240vac into two legs of 120. I've never come across 
> an inverter like this. As an off gridder the first thing I think of is the 
> inefficiencies of the additional transformers to do something like this when 
> we have plenty of manufacturers that don't require this. I'd love to hear 
> your thoughts on this setup and possible experiences and pitfalls to beware 
> of.
> 
> PS the client is kicking themselves in the butt, lol.
> 
> Gratefully,
> Christopher-- 
> Chris Schaefer’s
>  
> Tel/Fax 585-229-2083 or Cell 585-748-1870 
> 5115 South Hill Road ~ Canandaigua New York 14424
> www.solarandwindfx.com  ~ E-mail: 
> ch...@solarandwindfx.com 
> 
> Thomas Jefferson, the author of our great Constitution, once said, 
> "democracy" will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing 
> to work and give to those who would not."
> 
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Growatt 5k inverter w/ transformer, more China junk?

[Kent Osterberg]

The "Contact Us" page on their website gives a contact number in China. 
And none of the documentation shows a UL listing. I would tell the 
customer that I can't install it - too risky.


Kent Osterberg
Blue Mountain Solar

On 1/4/2021 3:33 PM, Chris Schaefer wrote:

G'Day and Happy New Year's All,

Just wanted to share this with you all. A potential client purchased a 
somewhat complete system off the internet and is now seeking an 
installer. I know, same old story. The package came with two Growatt 
SPF-5000 ES inverters with two Huawei HW-TX-5000 transformers. The 
twist to the story is apparently the inverters put out 230vac on a 
single leg and the transformers are required to split the 240vac into 
two legs of 120. I've never come across an inverter like this. As an 
off gridder the first thing I think of is the inefficiencies of the 
additional transformers to do something like this when we have plenty 
of manufacturers that don't require this. I'd love to hear your 
thoughts on this setup and possible experiences and pitfalls to beware of.


PS the client is kicking themselves in the butt, lol.

Gratefully,
Christopher--

Chris Schaefer’s

/Tel/Fax 585-229-2083 or Cell 585-748-1870
//5115 South Hill Road ~ Canandaigua New York 14424
//www.solarandwindfx.com  ~ E-mail: 
ch...@solarandwindfx.com /


/
/

Thomas Jefferson, the author of our great Constitution, once said, 
"democracy" will cease to exist when you take away from those who are 
willing to work and give to those who would not."





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