Re: RedDot gripes
Thanks, and thanks for the blog. There is nothing wrong with being critical of reddot, in fact it's refreshing to hear that others are having similar frustrations. Also, too many people are too willing to accept bad and bloated software design, especially with large enterprise apps. We should expect more. Sure you figure it out after a year or two, but in my world, software that takes a year or two to learn well enough to properly manage has some interface, engineering and documentation problems, and ain't nothing wrong with talking about them! It could be said it takes less time to learn html. That said, I am also currently enjoying RedDot's many benefits, features and flexibility, along with it's frustrations. I look forward to reading your blog. -Dino On Nov 24, 3:47 pm, Jonathan Frazier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry: as mentioned in the thread, it was changed to: http://reddotmusings.blogspot.com/ in order to convey a less-biased outlook. ~ Jonathan On Nov 24, 7:24 pm, dino [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey, the blog link doesn't seem to work, how do I see your blog? On Nov 19, 11:29 am, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm trying to publicise some bugs, design flaws, and usability issues relating to RedDot, for those who might be evaluating it. I'm trying to foster debate about what kinds of features a modern day CMS needs and how they might be implemented. I'm trying to gauge public opinion - to what extent am I on my own here, and how much do others share my thoughts? I'm trying to let off some steam. On Nov 19, 7:15 pm, Adam Boyle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't think you've really answered Morgan's first question. You're interested in the comments, but what are you trying to achieve with your blog? What purpose do you hope the comments generated by your blog will serve? Adam On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 2:00 PM, sayno more [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 1. I'm interested in the comments, as evidenced - I think - by my responses to them. I'd like responses to my blog posts which are not how do I do this type questions, which would obviously not be appropriate in a blog format, by critical evaluations of a piece of software, and its design. 2. I'll be interested to see how many of the gripes have been, or will be, addressed. As you point out, some of these gripes are genuine flaws of the software as it stands right now, and will be useful information for those who are considering adopting RedDot for their website. 3. This sounds quite positive, so we'll all wait and see what the outcome is. 4. I've done just that with a dedicated follow-up post. Thanks. 2008/11/18 theHam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hey [EMAIL PROTECTED], 1. to clarify what you are trying to achieve with these blog posts, are you attempting to get some assistance and/or information with the issues you are describing? I think from the amount of people that have contributed to this post already that it should be demonstrated that there are people here looking to help you if you want it. Or from the sounds of your comment I cannot see how I could possibly get a positive outcome from this software, given the flaws that, IMO, are pretty fundamental have you made a decision and will not be interested in the comments from people here? If you could let everyone be aware of your position i think it will help the more passionate people here and hopefully stop this becoming an unproductive flame war (as these things types of threads tend to become) 2. I would love it if the RedDot engineers took some notice of these comments. RedDot have taken notice of these comments. The next version of reddot coming out will be addressing your gripe #1 as the text editor is being replaced. Gripe #2 is being addressed (i believe around may next year) with a cms frontend rewrite based on usability fundamentals. Yes these have not been released yet and do not address your issues right now but based on my previous comment other gripes like the ones you have been mentioned have in the past been progressively acknowledged and addressed - there is hope. 3. You asked earlier whether reddot would charge for upgrades, I'm unaware of what region you are from but from ours if you are up to date with your software support and maintenance upgrades are generally provided under those costs (N.B. this may be different region to region) 4. I posted in the comments a reference to this link. If possible could you directly edit your post to refer to this discussion? If people do not view the comments of the post they may miss the link. Cheers, - Morgan On Nov 19, 1:01 am, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL
Re: RedDot gripes
Hey, the blog link doesn't seem to work, how do I see your blog? On Nov 19, 11:29 am, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm trying to publicise some bugs, design flaws, and usability issues relating to RedDot, for those who might be evaluating it. I'm trying to foster debate about what kinds of features a modern day CMS needs and how they might be implemented. I'm trying to gauge public opinion - to what extent am I on my own here, and how much do others share my thoughts? I'm trying to let off some steam. On Nov 19, 7:15 pm, Adam Boyle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't think you've really answered Morgan's first question. You're interested in the comments, but what are you trying to achieve with your blog? What purpose do you hope the comments generated by your blog will serve? Adam On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 2:00 PM, sayno more [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 1. I'm interested in the comments, as evidenced - I think - by my responses to them. I'd like responses to my blog posts which are not how do I do this type questions, which would obviously not be appropriate in a blog format, by critical evaluations of a piece of software, and its design. 2. I'll be interested to see how many of the gripes have been, or will be, addressed. As you point out, some of these gripes are genuine flaws of the software as it stands right now, and will be useful information for those who are considering adopting RedDot for their website. 3. This sounds quite positive, so we'll all wait and see what the outcome is. 4. I've done just that with a dedicated follow-up post. Thanks. 2008/11/18 theHam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hey [EMAIL PROTECTED], 1. to clarify what you are trying to achieve with these blog posts, are you attempting to get some assistance and/or information with the issues you are describing? I think from the amount of people that have contributed to this post already that it should be demonstrated that there are people here looking to help you if you want it. Or from the sounds of your comment I cannot see how I could possibly get a positive outcome from this software, given the flaws that, IMO, are pretty fundamental have you made a decision and will not be interested in the comments from people here? If you could let everyone be aware of your position i think it will help the more passionate people here and hopefully stop this becoming an unproductive flame war (as these things types of threads tend to become) 2. I would love it if the RedDot engineers took some notice of these comments. RedDot have taken notice of these comments. The next version of reddot coming out will be addressing your gripe #1 as the text editor is being replaced. Gripe #2 is being addressed (i believe around may next year) with a cms frontend rewrite based on usability fundamentals. Yes these have not been released yet and do not address your issues right now but based on my previous comment other gripes like the ones you have been mentioned have in the past been progressively acknowledged and addressed - there is hope. 3. You asked earlier whether reddot would charge for upgrades, I'm unaware of what region you are from but from ours if you are up to date with your software support and maintenance upgrades are generally provided under those costs (N.B. this may be different region to region) 4. I posted in the comments a reference to this link. If possible could you directly edit your post to refer to this discussion? If people do not view the comments of the post they may miss the link. Cheers, - Morgan On Nov 19, 1:01 am, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for the thoughtful comments, theham. I'll be dealing with a lot of what you say later on, but - in the meantime: all software is frustrating and flawed - I think this is either not the case, or an awful indictment of our craft if it is. I personally make regular use of software that is neither flawed nor frustrating; as I alluded to earlier, maybe that should be rephrased as all complex software is frustrating and flawed. I take the point, of course, that RedDot is not the only culprit. If you can please update your blog post - you beat me to it - thanks :) Why not try and get a positive outcome from your currently negative experience? - of course, that would be ideal. I guess I'm feeling pessimistic at the moment - I cannot see how I could possibly get a positive outcome from this software, given the flaws that, IMO, are pretty fundamental. So far, I've just dealt with the text editor creating invalid markup. As someone who has, over the last couple of years, really embraced web standards and clean, semantic markup, this DOES feel like a MASSIVE deal. However, there are other topics I'll be discussing which, I
Re: RedDot gripes
Sorry: as mentioned in the thread, it was changed to: http://reddotmusings.blogspot.com/ in order to convey a less-biased outlook. ~ Jonathan On Nov 24, 7:24 pm, dino [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey, the blog link doesn't seem to work, how do I see your blog? On Nov 19, 11:29 am, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm trying to publicise some bugs, design flaws, and usability issues relating to RedDot, for those who might be evaluating it. I'm trying to foster debate about what kinds of features a modern day CMS needs and how they might be implemented. I'm trying to gauge public opinion - to what extent am I on my own here, and how much do others share my thoughts? I'm trying to let off some steam. On Nov 19, 7:15 pm, Adam Boyle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't think you've really answered Morgan's first question. You're interested in the comments, but what are you trying to achieve with your blog? What purpose do you hope the comments generated by your blog will serve? Adam On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 2:00 PM, sayno more [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 1. I'm interested in the comments, as evidenced - I think - by my responses to them. I'd like responses to my blog posts which are not how do I do this type questions, which would obviously not be appropriate in a blog format, by critical evaluations of a piece of software, and its design. 2. I'll be interested to see how many of the gripes have been, or will be, addressed. As you point out, some of these gripes are genuine flaws of the software as it stands right now, and will be useful information for those who are considering adopting RedDot for their website. 3. This sounds quite positive, so we'll all wait and see what the outcome is. 4. I've done just that with a dedicated follow-up post. Thanks. 2008/11/18 theHam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hey [EMAIL PROTECTED], 1. to clarify what you are trying to achieve with these blog posts, are you attempting to get some assistance and/or information with the issues you are describing? I think from the amount of people that have contributed to this post already that it should be demonstrated that there are people here looking to help you if you want it. Or from the sounds of your comment I cannot see how I could possibly get a positive outcome from this software, given the flaws that, IMO, are pretty fundamental have you made a decision and will not be interested in the comments from people here? If you could let everyone be aware of your position i think it will help the more passionate people here and hopefully stop this becoming an unproductive flame war (as these things types of threads tend to become) 2. I would love it if the RedDot engineers took some notice of these comments. RedDot have taken notice of these comments. The next version of reddot coming out will be addressing your gripe #1 as the text editor is being replaced. Gripe #2 is being addressed (i believe around may next year) with a cms frontend rewrite based on usability fundamentals. Yes these have not been released yet and do not address your issues right now but based on my previous comment other gripes like the ones you have been mentioned have in the past been progressively acknowledged and addressed - there is hope. 3. You asked earlier whether reddot would charge for upgrades, I'm unaware of what region you are from but from ours if you are up to date with your software support and maintenance upgrades are generally provided under those costs (N.B. this may be different region to region) 4. I posted in the comments a reference to this link. If possible could you directly edit your post to refer to this discussion? If people do not view the comments of the post they may miss the link. Cheers, - Morgan On Nov 19, 1:01 am, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for the thoughtful comments, theham. I'll be dealing with a lot of what you say later on, but - in the meantime: all software is frustrating and flawed - I think this is either not the case, or an awful indictment of our craft if it is. I personally make regular use of software that is neither flawed nor frustrating; as I alluded to earlier, maybe that should be rephrased as all complex software is frustrating and flawed. I take the point, of course, that RedDot is not the only culprit. If you can please update your blog post - you beat me to it - thanks :) Why not try and get a positive outcome from your currently negative experience? - of course, that would be ideal. I guess I'm feeling pessimistic at the moment - I cannot see how I could possibly get a positive outcome from this software, given the flaws that, IMO, are pretty fundamental.
RE: RedDot gripes
Just to jump on the thought-train. While Reddot may have issues, so does every other CMS out there. We've used a number of the major players over the last few years and none are perfect, it just depends on what you are looking for in a system. What may be a major issue to one person isn't important to another. I've seen comments about the bug/support system from Reddot. Believe me, there are far worse out there. One of the leading CMS vendors, who shall remain unnamed, couldn't even get their training course material to be bug free... you were unable to complete the course exercises as they were missing some of the necessary components on the installation CDs. You can only imagine what state their support system was like ;) Question for Frederic... are there any plans for an English section to the user forums/wiki? Paul -Original Message- From: RedDot-CMS-Users@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of markus giesen Sent: Wed, November 19,2008 20:45 To: RedDot CMS Users Subject: Re: RedDot gripes I work with RedDot since 2001/2002. And it definetly was state of the art at this time. I can agree that there are a lot of open source CMS out there, like TYPO3 which back in the days was not that good but since now made some great efforts. But still I'm ore than sure, that RedDot has it's place in the enterprise cms world. The bugs and how they manage them is definetly something to discuss, but I think another blog which only figures out the negative sites or maybe negative ones is the wrong platform. Better publish some articles in a forum, I think even the google group is not the final solution for reddot related information. On 19 Nov., 20:29, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm trying to publicise some bugs, design flaws, and usability issues relating to RedDot, for those who might be evaluating it. I'm trying to foster debate about what kinds of features a modern day CMS needs and how they might be implemented. I'm trying to gauge public opinion - to what extent am I on my own here, and how much do others share my thoughts? I'm trying to let off some steam. On Nov 19, 7:15 pm, Adam Boyle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't think you've really answered Morgan's first question. You're interested in the comments, but what are you trying to achieve with your blog? What purpose do you hope the comments generated by your blog will serve? Adam On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 2:00 PM, sayno more [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 1. I'm interested in the comments, as evidenced - I think - by my responses to them. I'd like responses to my blog posts which are not how do I do this type questions, which would obviously not be appropriate in a blog format, by critical evaluations of a piece of software, and its design. 2. I'll be interested to see how many of the gripes have been, or will be, addressed. As you point out, some of these gripes are genuine flaws of the software as it stands right now, and will be useful information for those who are considering adopting RedDot for their website. 3. This sounds quite positive, so we'll all wait and see what the outcome is. 4. I've done just that with a dedicated follow-up post. Thanks. 2008/11/18 theHam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hey [EMAIL PROTECTED], 1. to clarify what you are trying to achieve with these blog posts, are you attempting to get some assistance and/or information with the issues you are describing? I think from the amount of people that have contributed to this post already that it should be demonstrated that there are people here looking to help you if you want it. Or from the sounds of your comment I cannot see how I could possibly get a positive outcome from this software, given the flaws that, IMO, are pretty fundamental have you made a decision and will not be interested in the comments from people here? If you could let everyone be aware of your position i think it will help the more passionate people here and hopefully stop this becoming an unproductive flame war (as these things types of threads tend to become) 2. I would love it if the RedDot engineers took some notice of these comments. RedDot have taken notice of these comments. The next version of reddot coming out will be addressing your gripe #1 as the text editor is being replaced. Gripe #2 is being addressed (i believe around may next year) with a cms frontend rewrite based on usability fundamentals. Yes these have not been released yet and do not address your issues right now but based on my previous comment other gripes like the ones you have been mentioned have in the past been progressively acknowledged and addressed - there is hope. 3. You asked earlier whether reddot would charge for upgrades, I'm unaware of what region you are from but from ours if you are up to date with your software support and maintenance
Re: RedDot gripes
I work with RedDot since 2001/2002. And it definetly was state of the art at this time. I can agree that there are a lot of open source CMS out there, like TYPO3 which back in the days was not that good but since now made some great efforts. But still I'm ore than sure, that RedDot has it's place in the enterprise cms world. The bugs and how they manage them is definetly something to discuss, but I think another blog which only figures out the negative sites or maybe negative ones is the wrong platform. Better publish some articles in a forum, I think even the google group is not the final solution for reddot related information. On 19 Nov., 20:29, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm trying to publicise some bugs, design flaws, and usability issues relating to RedDot, for those who might be evaluating it. I'm trying to foster debate about what kinds of features a modern day CMS needs and how they might be implemented. I'm trying to gauge public opinion - to what extent am I on my own here, and how much do others share my thoughts? I'm trying to let off some steam. On Nov 19, 7:15 pm, Adam Boyle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't think you've really answered Morgan's first question. You're interested in the comments, but what are you trying to achieve with your blog? What purpose do you hope the comments generated by your blog will serve? Adam On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 2:00 PM, sayno more [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 1. I'm interested in the comments, as evidenced - I think - by my responses to them. I'd like responses to my blog posts which are not how do I do this type questions, which would obviously not be appropriate in a blog format, by critical evaluations of a piece of software, and its design. 2. I'll be interested to see how many of the gripes have been, or will be, addressed. As you point out, some of these gripes are genuine flaws of the software as it stands right now, and will be useful information for those who are considering adopting RedDot for their website. 3. This sounds quite positive, so we'll all wait and see what the outcome is. 4. I've done just that with a dedicated follow-up post. Thanks. 2008/11/18 theHam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hey [EMAIL PROTECTED], 1. to clarify what you are trying to achieve with these blog posts, are you attempting to get some assistance and/or information with the issues you are describing? I think from the amount of people that have contributed to this post already that it should be demonstrated that there are people here looking to help you if you want it. Or from the sounds of your comment I cannot see how I could possibly get a positive outcome from this software, given the flaws that, IMO, are pretty fundamental have you made a decision and will not be interested in the comments from people here? If you could let everyone be aware of your position i think it will help the more passionate people here and hopefully stop this becoming an unproductive flame war (as these things types of threads tend to become) 2. I would love it if the RedDot engineers took some notice of these comments. RedDot have taken notice of these comments. The next version of reddot coming out will be addressing your gripe #1 as the text editor is being replaced. Gripe #2 is being addressed (i believe around may next year) with a cms frontend rewrite based on usability fundamentals. Yes these have not been released yet and do not address your issues right now but based on my previous comment other gripes like the ones you have been mentioned have in the past been progressively acknowledged and addressed - there is hope. 3. You asked earlier whether reddot would charge for upgrades, I'm unaware of what region you are from but from ours if you are up to date with your software support and maintenance upgrades are generally provided under those costs (N.B. this may be different region to region) 4. I posted in the comments a reference to this link. If possible could you directly edit your post to refer to this discussion? If people do not view the comments of the post they may miss the link. Cheers, - Morgan On Nov 19, 1:01 am, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for the thoughtful comments, theham. I'll be dealing with a lot of what you say later on, but - in the meantime: all software is frustrating and flawed - I think this is either not the case, or an awful indictment of our craft if it is. I personally make regular use of software that is neither flawed nor frustrating; as I alluded to earlier, maybe that should be rephrased as all complex software is frustrating and flawed. I take the point, of course, that RedDot is not the only culprit. If you can please update your blog post - you beat me to it - thanks :) Why not try and get a
Re: RedDot gripes
by the way: I like it that we discuss it here, that shows, that there is a need for discussions :) On 19 Nov., 20:29, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm trying to publicise some bugs, design flaws, and usability issues relating to RedDot, for those who might be evaluating it. I'm trying to foster debate about what kinds of features a modern day CMS needs and how they might be implemented. I'm trying to gauge public opinion - to what extent am I on my own here, and how much do others share my thoughts? I'm trying to let off some steam. On Nov 19, 7:15 pm, Adam Boyle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't think you've really answered Morgan's first question. You're interested in the comments, but what are you trying to achieve with your blog? What purpose do you hope the comments generated by your blog will serve? Adam On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 2:00 PM, sayno more [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 1. I'm interested in the comments, as evidenced - I think - by my responses to them. I'd like responses to my blog posts which are not how do I do this type questions, which would obviously not be appropriate in a blog format, by critical evaluations of a piece of software, and its design. 2. I'll be interested to see how many of the gripes have been, or will be, addressed. As you point out, some of these gripes are genuine flaws of the software as it stands right now, and will be useful information for those who are considering adopting RedDot for their website. 3. This sounds quite positive, so we'll all wait and see what the outcome is. 4. I've done just that with a dedicated follow-up post. Thanks. 2008/11/18 theHam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hey [EMAIL PROTECTED], 1. to clarify what you are trying to achieve with these blog posts, are you attempting to get some assistance and/or information with the issues you are describing? I think from the amount of people that have contributed to this post already that it should be demonstrated that there are people here looking to help you if you want it. Or from the sounds of your comment I cannot see how I could possibly get a positive outcome from this software, given the flaws that, IMO, are pretty fundamental have you made a decision and will not be interested in the comments from people here? If you could let everyone be aware of your position i think it will help the more passionate people here and hopefully stop this becoming an unproductive flame war (as these things types of threads tend to become) 2. I would love it if the RedDot engineers took some notice of these comments. RedDot have taken notice of these comments. The next version of reddot coming out will be addressing your gripe #1 as the text editor is being replaced. Gripe #2 is being addressed (i believe around may next year) with a cms frontend rewrite based on usability fundamentals. Yes these have not been released yet and do not address your issues right now but based on my previous comment other gripes like the ones you have been mentioned have in the past been progressively acknowledged and addressed - there is hope. 3. You asked earlier whether reddot would charge for upgrades, I'm unaware of what region you are from but from ours if you are up to date with your software support and maintenance upgrades are generally provided under those costs (N.B. this may be different region to region) 4. I posted in the comments a reference to this link. If possible could you directly edit your post to refer to this discussion? If people do not view the comments of the post they may miss the link. Cheers, - Morgan On Nov 19, 1:01 am, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for the thoughtful comments, theham. I'll be dealing with a lot of what you say later on, but - in the meantime: all software is frustrating and flawed - I think this is either not the case, or an awful indictment of our craft if it is. I personally make regular use of software that is neither flawed nor frustrating; as I alluded to earlier, maybe that should be rephrased as all complex software is frustrating and flawed. I take the point, of course, that RedDot is not the only culprit. If you can please update your blog post - you beat me to it - thanks :) Why not try and get a positive outcome from your currently negative experience? - of course, that would be ideal. I guess I'm feeling pessimistic at the moment - I cannot see how I could possibly get a positive outcome from this software, given the flaws that, IMO, are pretty fundamental. So far, I've just dealt with the text editor creating invalid markup. As someone who has, over the last couple of years, really embraced web standards and clean, semantic markup, this DOES feel like a MASSIVE deal. However, there are other topics
Re: RedDot gripes
I've been reading this post with great interest. Not to discount anything you've said because they're all valid points but nothing you've said in your blog is a big secret. Any potential customer that talks to a reference site will more than likely find about the cons of RedDot. Indeed I know from experience that we have lost bids to other CMS products due to a customer's requirements around say usability. So the information is there for any company that does it's due diligence. On the flip side, other customers love the product and have been using it for years, it meets their needs and the misgivings of the product are either small enough not to worry about or there are sufficient work arounds.So in a nutshell, I agree with what you're saying in your blog in principle. I would also encourage you to keep writing your blog because the more information gets out there, the more likely we'll reach a critical mass where a few interested people snowball into a caring, sharing developer community. I would however also encourage you to write some articles on what you LIKE about RedDot as well. So without sounding like a sales person, I think your blog would benefit from a balanced dicussion because at the end of the day, you're positive and negative opinions as a customer TO a potential customer mean more than any sales person's spiel. Cheers, Gavin 2008/11/20 [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] I am blogging about some of the negative sides of RedDot to counter balance the positives put forward by, among others, the RedDot sales team themselves. I would not suggest anyone take either my or their comments in isolation. I'm focussing on RedDot because that is the CMS I've been forced to work with. I would be utterly astounded if an existing RedDot customer read my blog and decided to stop using the software purely based on its content. I merely wish to give all the relevant information for potential customers, who have no opportunity to trial the software themselves, and no other means of evaluating it. On Nov 19, 8:38 pm, Adam Boyle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Blogging exclusively about bugs and flaws isn't helpful to those who might be evaluating RedDot. It's not fair to write about only the negative stuff without also mentioning some of the positive things that RedDot does too. If you were honestly trying to foster a debate about what features a CMS should have, then why did you name your blog RedDotGripes? Isn't it more honest to say that you created your blog in the hopes that it will pursuade current and/or potential RedDot customers against using RedDot? Isn't that the real purpose of your blog? Adam On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 2:29 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm trying to publicise some bugs, design flaws, and usability issues relating to RedDot, for those who might be evaluating it. I'm trying to foster debate about what kinds of features a modern day CMS needs and how they might be implemented. I'm trying to gauge public opinion - to what extent am I on my own here, and how much do others share my thoughts? I'm trying to let off some steam. On Nov 19, 7:15 pm, Adam Boyle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't think you've really answered Morgan's first question. You're interested in the comments, but what are you trying to achieve with your blog? What purpose do you hope the comments generated by your blog will serve? Adam On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 2:00 PM, sayno more [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 1. I'm interested in the comments, as evidenced - I think - by my responses to them. I'd like responses to my blog posts which are not how do I do this type questions, which would obviously not be appropriate in a blog format, by critical evaluations of a piece of software, and its design. 2. I'll be interested to see how many of the gripes have been, or will be, addressed. As you point out, some of these gripes are genuine flaws of the software as it stands right now, and will be useful information for those who are considering adopting RedDot for their website. 3. This sounds quite positive, so we'll all wait and see what the outcome is. 4. I've done just that with a dedicated follow-up post. Thanks. 2008/11/18 theHam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hey [EMAIL PROTECTED], 1. to clarify what you are trying to achieve with these blog posts, are you attempting to get some assistance and/or information with the issues you are describing? I think from the amount of people that have contributed to this post already that it should be demonstrated that there are people here looking to help you if you want it. Or from the sounds of your comment I cannot see how I could possibly get a positive outcome from this software, given the flaws that, IMO, are pretty
Re: RedDot gripes
If you weren't opposed to writing positive articles about RedDot, your blog would probably be really great and I'd read it regularly. If you used your real name, it would have a legitimacy to it that your anonymous blog can never have. Adam Boyle On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 7:28 PM, Gavin Cope [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've been reading this post with great interest. Not to discount anything you've said because they're all valid points but nothing you've said in your blog is a big secret. Any potential customer that talks to a reference site will more than likely find about the cons of RedDot. Indeed I know from experience that we have lost bids to other CMS products due to a customer's requirements around say usability. So the information is there for any company that does it's due diligence. On the flip side, other customers love the product and have been using it for years, it meets their needs and the misgivings of the product are either small enough not to worry about or there are sufficient work arounds. So in a nutshell, I agree with what you're saying in your blog in principle. I would also encourage you to keep writing your blog because the more information gets out there, the more likely we'll reach a critical mass where a few interested people snowball into a caring, sharing developer community. I would however also encourage you to write some articles on what you LIKE about RedDot as well. So without sounding like a sales person, I think your blog would benefit from a balanced dicussion because at the end of the day, you're positive and negative opinions as a customer TO a potential customer mean more than any sales person's spiel. Cheers, Gavin 2008/11/20 [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] I am blogging about some of the negative sides of RedDot to counter balance the positives put forward by, among others, the RedDot sales team themselves. I would not suggest anyone take either my or their comments in isolation. I'm focussing on RedDot because that is the CMS I've been forced to work with. I would be utterly astounded if an existing RedDot customer read my blog and decided to stop using the software purely based on its content. I merely wish to give all the relevant information for potential customers, who have no opportunity to trial the software themselves, and no other means of evaluating it. On Nov 19, 8:38 pm, Adam Boyle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Blogging exclusively about bugs and flaws isn't helpful to those who might be evaluating RedDot. It's not fair to write about only the negative stuff without also mentioning some of the positive things that RedDot does too. If you were honestly trying to foster a debate about what features a CMS should have, then why did you name your blog RedDotGripes? Isn't it more honest to say that you created your blog in the hopes that it will pursuade current and/or potential RedDot customers against using RedDot? Isn't that the real purpose of your blog? Adam On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 2:29 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm trying to publicise some bugs, design flaws, and usability issues relating to RedDot, for those who might be evaluating it. I'm trying to foster debate about what kinds of features a modern day CMS needs and how they might be implemented. I'm trying to gauge public opinion - to what extent am I on my own here, and how much do others share my thoughts? I'm trying to let off some steam. On Nov 19, 7:15 pm, Adam Boyle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't think you've really answered Morgan's first question. You're interested in the comments, but what are you trying to achieve with your blog? What purpose do you hope the comments generated by your blog will serve? Adam On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 2:00 PM, sayno more [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 1. I'm interested in the comments, as evidenced - I think - by my responses to them. I'd like responses to my blog posts which are not how do I do this type questions, which would obviously not be appropriate in a blog format, by critical evaluations of a piece of software, and its design. 2. I'll be interested to see how many of the gripes have been, or will be, addressed. As you point out, some of these gripes are genuine flaws of the software as it stands right now, and will be useful information for those who are considering adopting RedDot for their website. 3. This sounds quite positive, so we'll all wait and see what the outcome is. 4. I've done just that with a dedicated follow-up post. Thanks. 2008/11/18 theHam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hey [EMAIL PROTECTED], 1. to clarify what you are trying to achieve with these blog posts, are you attempting to get some assistance and/or information with the issues you are describing? I think from
Re: RedDot gripes
Hey [EMAIL PROTECTED], 1. to clarify what you are trying to achieve with these blog posts, are you attempting to get some assistance and/or information with the issues you are describing? I think from the amount of people that have contributed to this post already that it should be demonstrated that there are people here looking to help you if you want it. Or from the sounds of your comment I cannot see how I could possibly get a positive outcome from this software, given the flaws that, IMO, are pretty fundamental have you made a decision and will not be interested in the comments from people here? If you could let everyone be aware of your position i think it will help the more passionate people here and hopefully stop this becoming an unproductive flame war (as these things types of threads tend to become) 2. I would love it if the RedDot engineers took some notice of these comments. RedDot have taken notice of these comments. The next version of reddot coming out will be addressing your gripe #1 as the text editor is being replaced. Gripe #2 is being addressed (i believe around may next year) with a cms frontend rewrite based on usability fundamentals. Yes these have not been released yet and do not address your issues right now but based on my previous comment other gripes like the ones you have been mentioned have in the past been progressively acknowledged and addressed - there is hope. 3. You asked earlier whether reddot would charge for upgrades, I'm unaware of what region you are from but from ours if you are up to date with your software support and maintenance upgrades are generally provided under those costs (N.B. this may be different region to region) 4. I posted in the comments a reference to this link. If possible could you directly edit your post to refer to this discussion? If people do not view the comments of the post they may miss the link. Cheers, - Morgan On Nov 19, 1:01 am, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for the thoughtful comments, theham. I'll be dealing with a lot of what you say later on, but - in the meantime: all software is frustrating and flawed - I think this is either not the case, or an awful indictment of our craft if it is. I personally make regular use of software that is neither flawed nor frustrating; as I alluded to earlier, maybe that should be rephrased as all complex software is frustrating and flawed. I take the point, of course, that RedDot is not the only culprit. If you can please update your blog post - you beat me to it - thanks :) Why not try and get a positive outcome from your currently negative experience? - of course, that would be ideal. I guess I'm feeling pessimistic at the moment - I cannot see how I could possibly get a positive outcome from this software, given the flaws that, IMO, are pretty fundamental. So far, I've just dealt with the text editor creating invalid markup. As someone who has, over the last couple of years, really embraced web standards and clean, semantic markup, this DOES feel like a MASSIVE deal. However, there are other topics I'll be discussing which, I believe, will be more significant to some of you (gripe #2 - just posted - probably doesn't fall under this category, unfortunately). I'm talking core aspects of the RedDot CMS model which I consider flawed. I would love it if the RedDot engineers took some notice of these comments. I would also love it if an alternative CMS (preferably open source) could be suggested, or developed if there really is a gap in the market. On Nov 18, 11:19 am, theHam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey [EMAIL PROTECTED], I understand your pain and frustration. I'm a 3 y.o reddoter with a love/hate relationship with the wonderful world of reddot. I try to make sure that my clients never have to experience the hate and i deep down love the challenge. One thing i have noticed is that the biggest gripes i have with the product have been resolved progressively through the years. 1. Complex workaround asp driven navigation has been replaced by (imo) a much flexible approach with navman 2. user syncronisation has been significantly improved with the user sync templates 3. page definitions which has simplified and sped up the building out of content A soon to be resolved issue on my gripe list will be the text editor which is to be replaced by the telerik asp.net/ajax driven text editor (i heard this month but could be wrong). Though we also have had success with the ephox text editor and will be sad to see it go. As a few people mentioned all software is frustrating and flawed.. a good example of this is that reddot will do things significantly better than other product and significantly worse than others. If reddot themselves don't move fast enough to bridge the gap that is where people on this group and consultants can assist. A couple of things i think a lot of people on this group would
