Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT: 155.190 intereferes with Ham Radio Frequencies

2006-05-03 Thread Tony VE6MVP
At 08:35 PM 2006/05/02 -0700, you wrote:

 Search for scanners that are tuned to receive 155.19, Seems to be a
 popular problem out here. Dead give away is when they scan a periodic
 pop can be heard on the channel you are trying to recieve.

So how can a scanner interfere with a repeater?   I'm probably missing 
something basic but thought I'd ask anyhow.

Tony





 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT: 155.190 intereferes with Ham Radio Frequencies

2006-05-03 Thread mch
The local oscillator. It can travel for miles.

Joe M.

Tony VE6MVP wrote:
 
 At 08:35 PM 2006/05/02 -0700, you wrote:
 
  Search for scanners that are tuned to receive 155.19, Seems to be a
  popular problem out here. Dead give away is when they scan a periodic
  pop can be heard on the channel you are trying to recieve.
 
 So how can a scanner interfere with a repeater?   I'm probably missing
 something basic but thought I'd ask anyhow.
 
 Tony





 
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[Repeater-Builder] scanner interference

2006-05-03 Thread Paul N1BUG
 So how can a scanner interfere with a repeater?   I'm probably missing 
 something basic but thought I'd ask anyhow.

Given the original description of the problem Mathew has been asked 
to help solve, I doubt a scanner is the problem - hence I'm changing 
the Subject header...

The local oscillator in scanners can radiate back out the antenna 
and be heard some distance away. Many scanners receiving in the VHF 
band have the LO offset below the receive frequency by whatever the 
IF of the scanner happens to be (10.7 and 10.8 MHz are both common, 
but there may be others).

Years ago when I put up my first repeater I encoutered this problem. 
The repeater was on 145.110 and the original configuration was 
carrier squelch. As soon as I turned it on it started kerchunking 
rhythmically... bleep... bleep... bleep... After a few hours hunting 
I found a scanner one mile from the repeater site that was causing 
it. The owner had 155.310 programmed in the scanner and that one had 
a 10.8 MHz IF. Every time is scanned that frequency it keyed my 
repeater. 155.310 minus 10.8 equals 144.510, my repeater input 
frequency! The signal that thing put at the repeater site a mile 
away was quite strong. When the scanner stopped on 155.310 it put a 
darn near full quieting signal into my repeater receiver. I'm sure 
many others have similar experiences.

Paul




 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] scanner interference

2006-05-03 Thread k1ike_mail
Similar situation here in Connecticut on the 145.29 W1BCG Killingworth 
repeater.  The repeater is located at a firehouse.  The firefighters had a 
scanner programmed to 155.385 (LifeStar Ambulance) and it had a 10.7 IF.  
Everytime it stopped on 155.385 we received a signal on our input.  A hard one 
to find, as the helicopter does not go out very often.

73, Joe, K1ike


--- Paul N1BUG [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
 it. The owner had 155.310 programmed in the scanner and that one had 
 a 10.8 MHz IF. Every time is scanned that frequency it keyed my 
 repeater. 155.310 minus 10.8 equals 144.510, my repeater input 
 frequency! 




 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] scanner interference

2006-05-03 Thread Steve Bosshard (NU5D)



Years ago I installed a phone patch on a MED 8 duplex base station that was carrier squelch. I set the patch up for 5 Key Clicks to activate the auto dialer into the ER. Some patient on the 8th floor had a scanner and the LO while scanning ran across the 
468.0 input. Liked to drive the ER folks crazy til we tighened the squelch. Channel Guard came later on, but for a while, between scanners, and also Winegard TV active antennas in the RV park at the hospital, we had some interesting interference problems.


Steve
On 5/3/06, Paul N1BUG [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 So how can a scanner interfere with a repeater? I'm probably missing something basic but thought I'd ask anyhow.
-- Ham Radio Spoken Here.NU5D 














  




  
  
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RE: [Repeater-Builder] scanner interference

2006-05-03 Thread n . mckie

  I have had similar experiences with a Bearcat 250 Scanner / 10.85 
 MHz IF as I remember ... 

  Neil - WA6KLA 


 Original Message 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] scanner interference
Date: Wed, 03 May 2006 07:06:50 -0400

 So how can a scanner interfere with a repeater?   I'm probably
missing 
 something basic but thought I'd ask anyhow.

Given the original description of the problem Mathew has been asked 
to help solve, I doubt a scanner is the problem - hence I'm changing 
the Subject header...

The local oscillator in scanners can radiate back out the antenna 
and be heard some distance away. Many scanners receiving in the VHF 
band have the LO offset below the receive frequency by whatever the 
IF of the scanner happens to be (10.7 and 10.8 MHz are both common, 
but there may be others).

Years ago when I put up my first repeater I encoutered this problem. 
The repeater was on 145.110 and the original configuration was 
carrier squelch. As soon as I turned it on it started kerchunking 
rhythmically... bleep... bleep... bleep... After a few hours hunting 
I found a scanner one mile from the repeater site that was causing 
it. The owner had 155.310 programmed in the scanner and that one had 
a 10.8 MHz IF. Every time is scanned that frequency it keyed my 
repeater. 155.310 minus 10.8 equals 144.510, my repeater input 
frequency! The signal that thing put at the repeater site a mile 
away was quite strong. When the scanner stopped on 155.310 it put a 
darn near full quieting signal into my repeater receiver. I'm sure 
many others have similar experiences.

Paul







 
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RE: [Repeater-Builder] OT: 155.190 intereferes with Ham Radio Frequencies

2006-05-03 Thread Mathew Quaife



  I tried to find a licensed user of 155.190 MHz in an area 40 miles north ofyour QTH, around Michigan City, but found none. Fulton County Sheriff's Department, Rochester, Indiana  Rochester Police Department, this is the department that can be heard.  I also couldn't find a coordinated repeater on 147.285 MHz in that area. Please identify by callsign the repeater on 147.285, and where it is located. I simply assumed that "here" refers to your QTH. Are there any other transmitters at that location? K9WZ Repeater in Plymouth, Indiana  He aslo mentioned that he could hear them on 146.535 Mhz, they operate there on simplex.Can you identify what Sheriff Department is using 155.190 MHz,and where it is
 located? I ask these questions because I suspect that theSheriff's signal may be mixing with a third carrier and that station may begenerating IM, unbeknownst to the Sheriff. This third station may verylikely be at the same site as the Sheriff's repeater, and I can look at suchcandidates only if I know where each site is located. It may be veryinstructive to set up a spectrum analyzer to see what signals are presentwhen the interference occurs.At this point,I do not know where the actual repeater is located in their county. I'm assuming from what he explains that it is there in Rochester, as that is the main city for the county.Some questions come to mind:1. Is the signal from the Sheriff repeater being heard by the complainers'radios directly, or is the Sheriff's signal being repeated over the 147.285machine?  The only time they hear the repeater, and from what was
 explained, they can hear them very clearly, is when the city of Rochester talks on the repeater. 2. If the Sheriff's signal is being repeated on the 2m machine, whathappens when the repeater transmitter is shut off? That is, can you stillhear the Sheriff's signal on the 2m repeater's monitor speaker at the site,with the TX off?At this point I have not contacted Wayne, K9WZ whom is the owner of the 147.295 repeater. Wanted to do some research before I get in touch with anyone, to make sure we don't make enemies. I do know they told me they are hearing it on more than one frequency in the two meter band.  3. Is the interference also heard over a commercial-grade radio? Thismight eliminate an image reception issue.At this point I have to say no. I will be taking a number of radios with me when I visit the location this
 Saturday.  4. What are the details about the 2m repeater? (Make/model of receiver,transmitter, duplexer, filters, antenna, etc.)This I would have to contact Wayne to get this information. If you have access to IRLP, I do know he has IRLP and Echolink access, however I do not know either of his nodes.  5. When the interference is heard, is it a mixture of voices or tones, oris just the Sheriff dispatcher heard clearly?They stated they can hear them clearly, however until I hear it for myself, I can't say what is actually being heard.Thanks!Mathew  73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY-Original Message-From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of n9lvSent: Tuesday, May 02, 2006 8:22 PMTo:
 Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.comSubject: [Repeater-Builder] OT: 155.190 intereferes with Ham RadioFrequenciesI've have been asked to assist with an issue in a town about 40 miles from here regarding a commercial system that is causing interference with Ham Radio. At best, the information that I have thus far, is that there is a repeater that is owned by the county sheriff's department, this repeater itself is on the output of 155.190, and is said to not be causing interference. The only time that it interferes with the hams in the area is when the city talks on the repeater for 911 dispatches. At this time I do not know how much power or what type of radio they are using, antenna height, or brands.The radios thus far that is receiving the interference, from two locations, one about a mile away and the other about a block away, is the IC-2100H mobile radios, and an ADI AT600 handi talkie. There has
 been other complaints, I'm supposed to get additional information this weekend, and possibly make a trip up there to hear the interference.Questions I have is, what should I be looking for? What avenues should be taken? I do know that the Chief has been notified of the situation, but refuses to see a problem and has done nothing to rectify the situation. At this point, I do know they say that on the receive of 147.285 that there is noted a nearly full scale signal, making it impossible to hear the repeater that is about 25 miles north of there, of which is on a 400 ft tower, classified as a large scale repeater.ThanksMathewYahoo! Groups LinksYahoo! Groups Links* To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/* To unsubscribe from this group, send
 an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT: 155.190 intereferes with Ham Radio Frequencies

2006-05-03 Thread Gary
Assuming the amateurs are hearing this traffic with their radios in
carrier squelch here's a few suggestions:

assuming there is regular activity on the commercial channel attempt to
'hunt' the signal on the amateur freq, try to verify an increase in
signal strength and perhaps audio clarity as you approach the commercial
transmitter site.

if possible look for a 147.2Mhz spur on the commercial transmitter's
output. Look at the duplexer, transmitter, circulator, every point along
the way. If you encounter something  then inform the owner but try to
avoid confrontation.

If you encounter resistance from the owner, the 'chief' or his people
then I would suggest backing off, gather as much data without
interacting with them then pass the data on to your local FCC rep and
their Spectrum Enforcement Division directly. Others may have better
ideas for your region.

Gary

n9lv wrote:

 I've have been asked to assist with an issue in a town about 40
 miles from here regarding a commercial system that is causing
 interference with Ham Radio.

 At best, the information that I have thus far, is that there is a
 repeater that is owned by the county sheriff's department, this
 repeater itself is on the output of 155.190, and is said to not be
 causing interference.  The only time that it interferes with the
 hams in the area is when the city talks on the repeater for 911
 dispatches.  At this time I do not know how much power or what type
 of radio they are using, antenna height, or brands.

 The radios thus far that is recieving the interference, from two
 locations, one about a mile away and the other about a block away,
 is the IC-2100H mobile radios, and an ADI AT600 handi talkie.  There
 has been other complaints, I'm supposed to get additional
 information this weekend, and possibly make a trip up there to hear
 the interfernce.

 Questions I have is, what should I be looking for?  What avenue's
 should be taken.  I do know that the Chief has been notified of the
 situation, but refuses to see a problem and has done nothing to
 rectify the situation.

 At this point, I do know they say that on the receive of 147.285
 that there is noted a nearly full scale signal, making it impossible
 to hear the repeater that is about 25 miles north of there, of which
 is on a 400 ft tower, classified as a large scale repeater.

 Thanks
 Mathew


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[Repeater-Builder] serial number for the Radios

2006-05-03 Thread hussien.reda






Hi all

can anyone pls help me from the serial number of 
the device like portable radios or mobile to know the Product details , like the 
model of the radio , product day ,etc 

Thanks alot













  




  
  
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT: 155.190 intereferes with Ham Radio Frequencies

2006-05-03 Thread Mathew Quaife



You are right Gary, the last thing I want to do is get a police cheif upset with the ham community, especially if it caused by something other than their transmitter.Mathew  Gary [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  Assuming the amateurs are hearing this traffic with their radios incarrier squelch here's a few suggestions:assuming there is regular activity on the commercial channel attempt to'hunt' the signal on the amateur freq, try to verify an increase insignal strength and perhaps audio clarity as you approach the commercialtransmitter site.if possible look for a 147.2Mhz spur on the commercial transmitter'soutput. Look at the duplexer, transmitter, circulator, every point alongthe way. If you encounter something then inform the owner but try toavoid
 confrontation.If you encounter resistance from the owner, the 'chief' or his peoplethen I would suggest backing off, gather as much data withoutinteracting with them then pass the data on to your local FCC rep andtheir Spectrum Enforcement Division directly. Others may have betterideas for your region.Garyn9lv wrote: I've have been asked to assist with an issue in a town about 40 miles from here regarding a commercial system that is causing interference with Ham Radio. At best, the information that I have thus far, is that there is a repeater that is owned by the county sheriff's department, this repeater itself is on the output of 155.190, and is said to not be causing interference. The only time that it interferes with the hams in the area is when the city talks on the repeater for 911 dispatches. At this time I do not know how much power or what
 type of radio they are using, antenna height, or brands. The radios thus far that is recieving the interference, from two locations, one about a mile away and the other about a block away, is the IC-2100H mobile radios, and an ADI AT600 handi talkie. There has been other complaints, I'm supposed to get additional information this weekend, and possibly make a trip up there to hear the interfernce. Questions I have is, what should I be looking for? What avenue's should be taken. I do know that the Chief has been notified of the situation, but refuses to see a problem and has done nothing to rectify the situation. At this point, I do know they say that on the receive of 147.285 that there is noted a nearly full scale signal, making it impossible to hear the repeater that is about 25 miles north of there, of which is on a 400 ft tower,
 classified as a large scale repeater. Thanks Mathew Yahoo! Groups LinksYahoo! Groups Links* To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
	
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[Repeater-Builder] Re: Transmitter combining and Multicoupling information.

2006-05-03 Thread Harold Farrenkopf
--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, skipp025 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Gareth Bennett garethb@ wrote:
  I inherited a TX combiner on a radio site that has
  just grown without any planning and thought involved. 
 
 That would be about 80% of the combiners systems I've seen. 
 Clint Eastwood called it a Cluster in one of his 
 movies. 
 
  There are 5x transmitters from 151.5 through to 153.025 
  with the closest TX to TX spacing being 250 KHz.
 
  which borders on almost being too close for a Star layout. 
 Unless the bottles are large and high Q, those two legs prob. 
 have a lot of loss. 

No, 250kHz is fine for a 5 TX star combiner (with isolators and or
more pass cans in series). 10 cans can go down to 60khz.
 
  I have seen star combiners that have been fitted with shorted 
  stubs that Appears  to be in the vicinity of around 1/8 
  wavelength... I was hoping that there was some theory or 
  maths to get close to this length.
 
 Sure, it is a harmonic trap with the advantage of being a DC 
 shunt. 

Sinclair's stubs are near open half waves if my memory serves me and
are adjusted (trimmed) to present a balance return loss across the
span of frequencies used.

 
  In the past I have maintained TX star combiners where the 
  combiner itself has been made for a selective frequency band, 
  with capacitive disks inside. (These almost always had shorted 
  stubs fitted to a spare star port).
 
 It's nice to have the stub if you have an extra port, but it's 
 not a requirement. 
 
  I understand the theory of an odd wavelength from the cavity 
  to the combiner (Usually 3/4 wavelength) 
 
 More often 1/4 wave cable lenghts in the popular 4 port (less 
 than or equal to) combiners when size and cable lengths permit. 

5 way will require the 3/4 wave version to get to 5 cavities from the
star.

 
  But would like to know more theory and if possible the maths 
  that go into proper transmitter combining.
 

I was a systems guy and never got into those details.

Look at manufacturer's catalog pictures to see how they do TX star
combiners.

The loop and cable length presented approximately a 1/4 wave or 3/4
wave shorted stub when you look at it through the star with a tracking
generator and spectrum analyser.  The resonance I mentioned was a
minimal insertion loss or the best VSWR (best return loss) at the
middle of your frequencies)

 Well...   each combiner is a trade off based on your frequency 
 list and band of operation.  Might be better to go through an 
 example rather than throw a bunch of technoblather out. 
 
 cheers, 
 skipp









 
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[Repeater-Builder] Re: Transmitter combining and Multicoupling information.

2006-05-03 Thread skipp025
 Harold Farrenkopf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

   There are 5x transmitters from 151.5 through to 153.025 
   with the closest TX to TX spacing being 250 KHz.
  
   which borders on almost being too close for a Star layout. 
  Unless the bottles are large and high Q, those two legs prob. 
  have a lot of loss. 
 
 No, 250kHz is fine for a 5 TX star combiner (with isolators and or
 more pass cans in series). 10 cans can go down to 60khz.

Depends on what you consider usable performance. I'm not fond 
of 4dB loss right out of the starting gate in addition to all 
the other gremlins, which tend to pop up in marginal combiner 
operation.  Yes, the Q of the cans make a big difference as 
well as the number of... but many of the common combiners are 
single can and a bunch are even reduced size bottles. 
 
 Sinclair's stubs are near open half waves if my memory serves 
 me and are adjusted (trimmed) to present a balance return loss 
 across the span of frequencies used.

Sinclair's Engineering is first rate work.  Another applied stub 
method is always interesting to learn about.  

  More often 1/4 wave cable lenghts in the popular 4 port (less 
  than or equal to) combiners when size and cable lengths permit. 
 
 5 way will require the 3/4 wave version to get to 5 cavities 
 from the star.

In many cases yes, but I have seen folded versions of combiners 
where 5 way starrs were used with 1/4 wave cables.  The 1/4 wave 
cable lengths seem to be easier to match. 

 I was a systems guy and never got into those details.

I'm a moderate Republican not so happy with the way my current 
Politcal Party trys to operate. . 

 Look at manufacturer's catalog pictures to see how they 
 do TX star combiners.

Catalogs can be very helpful. 

 The loop and cable length presented approximately a 1/4 wave 
 or 3/4 wave shorted stub when you look at it through the star 
 with a tracking generator and spectrum analyser. 

 The resonance I mentioned was a minimal insertion loss or 
 the best VSWR (best return loss) at the middle of your 
 frequencies)

The fly in the soup is the minimal insertion loss is not 
always in/at the middle of the selected frequencies. And 
the return loss or resonant curve/value is not a uniform 
shape. 

cheers,
skipp 








 
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[Repeater-Builder] Re: OT: 155.910 interferes with Ham......

2006-05-03 Thread Al Wolfe
From: Mathew Quaife [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed May 3, 2006 8:19am(PDT)
 Subject: Re: OT: 155.190 intereferes with Ham Radio  Frequencies

 You are right Gary, the last thing I want to do is get a police cheif 
 upset with the ham community, especially if it caused by something other 
 than their transmitter.

  Mathew


In several interference problems we've dealt with, that is where 
commercial gear caused interference to ham repeaters, the most productive 
solutions were to deal directly with the shops that maintain the guilty 
party's equipment. Sometimes IDing the shop can be a challenge, though. 
Also, one must be sure the ham operation receiving the interference is 
squeaky clean. Have never had to notify FCC but have mentioned  that option 
to the radio shops when they were less than cooperative. Often, the owner of 
the interfering systems were never involved at all as there was a 
maintenance contract on their equipment. YMMV

73,
Al, K9SI 





 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Programming a VXR7000 as a base station (no repeat)

2006-05-03 Thread Mike Morris
At 03:14 PM 05/03/06, you wrote:

A few days ago somebody from one of the many lists I belong to, wrote how to
program the VXR7000 repeaters as a duplex base station, in order to install
an external controller, looked at the archives in different groups and can
not find any info, does someone here know how to do it?? This will be very
helpful; Thanks in advance.

Juan Tellez, XE2SI

There's a link to some 7000 stuff on the Vertex page at 
www.repeater-builder.com

Mike WA6ILQ






 
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RE: [Repeater-Builder] OT: 155.190 intereferes with Ham Radio Frequencies

2006-05-03 Thread Eric Lemmon





Mathew,

After looking at the number of transmitters operated by the Fulton County 
Sheriff and the Rochester Police Department, I can see that there are a number 
of possibilities. For example, when you double the Rochester PD channel at 
155.130 MHz and then subtract the nearby NOAA Weather Radio Station WXK74 at 
162.475 MHz, you get a third-order IM product at 147.305 MHz- only 20 kHz away 
from your 2m repeater's output. An Amateur-grade radio might be loose 
enough to pick that up. That's why I asked about whether a 
commercial-grade radio received the same interference.

My gut feeling is that there is a third-order IM product that involves 
one of the police or sheriff frequencies, and the mixing may be occurring in a 
transmitter that does not belong to Fulton County or the City of 
Rochester. I believe that the best way to determine what carriers are 
causing the interference is to set up a spectrum analyzer where the interference 
is very strong, and monitor the spectrum to see what carriers are always present 
when the interference occurs. Since the sheriff uses UHF control stations, 
you might also monitor that band for clues. Steady carriers used by 
broadcast station STL (studio-to-transmitter link) or remote-monitoring 
equipment often are on the air 24/7 and can be just dead carriers most of the 
time. High-power paging transmitters are also IM 
candidates.

I'd collect a lot more data before contacting anyone on the 
law-enforcement side. Use accurate equipment to determine exactly which 
frequencies are key to the interference. Some of the channels are very few 
kHz apart, so you need to be able to identify each 
frequency.

When the time comes to make contact with the agency involved, don't call 
the chief! Look up the point of contact for the station licensee in the 
FCC license database. For Fulton County license KSB609, it's the 
Communications Director at 574-223-2910. Just call and ask for the Radio 
Shop. Tact and diplomacy goes a long way here, especially since you are 
offering to help clear up a little problem that may cause interference to their 
radio system.

73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY 














  




  
  
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[Repeater-Builder] Micor PA's for sale

2006-05-03 Thread Don Wisdom
Hi All,
I have 2 micor PA's for sale (out of stations)
one UHF TLE1711A  
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=7616209023
one UHF TLE1713A  
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=7616208703
The TLE1711A is of a unknown bandsplit
The TLE1713A is a 75 watt UHF 450-470 PA.  
Items look to be in good condition but as i play with GE stuff i dont 
have a way to test them.
Thanks
--Don Wisdom







 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Micor PA's for sale

2006-05-03 Thread Don Wisdom
And Lastly Thank you Kevin for allowing me to post this
--Don Wisdom
KD7WKF



Don Wisdom wrote:
 Hi All,
 I have 2 micor PA's for sale (out of stations)
 one UHF TLE1711A  
 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=7616209023
 one UHF TLE1713A  
 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=7616208703
 The TLE1711A is of a unknown bandsplit
 The TLE1713A is a 75 watt UHF 450-470 PA.  
 Items look to be in good condition but as i play with GE stuff i dont 
 have a way to test them.
 Thanks
 --Don Wisdom







  
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