Re: [Repeater-Builder] Are there any advantages to DCS ?

[mch]

OK. There are the TIA codes, and there are what everyone uses -
including Motorola (for more than the last 10 years) as well as all the
other LMR manufacturers and all of the CDCSS product manufacturers.
(IOW, the entire industry)

For what everyone will see in the real world, there are 104 codes
despite the fact that some organization might not recognize some of
them.

Back in the 80s, I often used some of the codes Motorola didn't support.
It ensured that they couldn't sell into an existing system. ;-]

...then we switched from GE to Motorola. Oh well. :-)

Joe M.

Eric Lemmon wrote:
> 
> Until the TIA-603-C standard is changed, there are 83 DCS codes.  It really
> doesn't matter if some manufacturer or user decides to "create" new codes; I
> was reporting what is currently the international standard.  It is what it
> is.
> 
> 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of mch
> Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 7:28 PM
> To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Are there any advantages to DCS ?
> 
> Maybe the other 21 CDCSS codes? There are 104 CDCSS codes, not 83 ;->
> 
> Look at the table here (the one on the bottom - not the TRN6005A table)
>   > >
> 
> Early Motorola equipment only supported 83 of the 104 standard codes.
> 
> Joe M.
> 
> Bob M. wrote:
> >
> > After all that excellent description, you must have
> > left something out! I just can't think of what it was.
> >
> > Bob M.
> > ==
> > --- Eric Lemmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]  > wrote:
> >
> > > Skip,
> > >
> > > Other than the availability of more CDCSS codes (83)
> > > than with CTCSS (39),
> > > the primary advantage is that the turn-off code is
> > > standardized at 134.4 +/-
> > > 0.5 Hz per the international standard TIA-603-C.
> > > Thus, you can be fairly
> > > certain that a Kenwood product (for example) will
> > > mute silently with a
> > > Motorola (for example) product. Such compatibility
> > > is not assured when
> > > using CTCSS, since Motorola uses a different
> > > reverse-burst timing than do
> > > all other commercial radio makers on the planet.
> > > Before dissing Motorola,
> > > be aware that TIA-603-C clearly defines two standard
> > > formats for the
> > > reverse-burst timing and phasing in CTCSS: One
> > > format advances the phase by
> > > 120 degrees (same as 240 degrees) for 180
> > > milliseconds, while the other
> > > format advances the phase by 180 degrees for 150
> > > milliseconds. Motorola
> > > chose the oddball phasing of 120 degrees because it
> > > stopped the motion of a
> > > Vibrasponder reed in less time than a 180-degree
> > > phase shift. (Please,
> > > let's not debate that splinter issue now; I'm just
> > > reporting some history
> > > here!)
> > >
> > > Motorola continued to use the 120 degree phase shift
> > > for reverse burst long
> > > after mechanical reeds faded from the picture, and
> > > current radios now use
> > > microprocessor-based tone encoding and decoding, but
> > > with the same phasing
> > > and timing. While a Vibrasponder reed will work
> > > with either reverse-burst
> > > format, digital decoders will not. An
> > > application-specific tone decoder IC
> > > (ASIC) can be (and certainly ARE) programmed to
> > > properly decode the 120
> > > degree phase shift and ignore the 180 degree phase
> > > shift- and vice versa.
> > > And that, my friends, is exactly why a Kenwood,
> > > Icom, Vertex, Bendix-King,
> > > Maxon, etc., mobile or portable radio may not
> > > properly mute when accessing a
> > > Motorola repeater! Likewise, a Motorola mobile or
> > > portable radio may not
> > > properly mute when used with a repeater or base
> > > station made by the other
> > > brands. I had squelch crashes when I deployed a new
> > > Motorola commercial
> > > repeater in a system that had several Kenwood
> > > mobiles in service. Once I
> > > understood the problem, I simply reprogrammed the
> > > entire fleet to CDCSS, and
> > > the "problem" went away.
> > >
> > > Before leaving the topic of CDCSS, I should point
> > > out that there are only 83
> > > CDCSS codes. The "Inverse Codes" exist only to
> > > account for polarity
> > > inversion within the receiver's audio chain; it
> > > doesn't double the number of
> > > possible codes. Again referring to TIA-603-C, the
> > > standard CDCSS modulation
> > > Type A defines a "0" data bit to be a minus
> > > frequency shift, and a "1" data
> > > bit to be a plus frequency shift. Inverse CDCSS
> > > modulation Type B is just
> > > the opposite. Some radios have an odd number of
> > > polarity reversals in the
> > > encoding/decoding chain, so it may be necessary to
> > > select "INVERSE DCS" for
> > > the proper action to occur. The CDCSS modula

Re: [Repeater-Builder] ctcss and dcs at same time?

[Milt]

Excellant recommendation, all 3 are problem children.

Milt
N3LTQ

- Original Message - 
From: "mch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 10:15 PM
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] ctcss and dcs at same time?


> Well, within the last year several new PS systems were put on the air
> using 131.8 Hz. Go figure. :-)
>
> (No, I was not involved with the tone selection or I would have
> recommended avoiding it - as well as 118.8 and 179.9 Hz.)
>
> Joe M.
>
> Steve S. Bosshard (NU5D) wrote:
>>
>> I just left a 911 Med Dispatch Center - I am pretty sure a kerchunk
>> every time another user keyed their radio and the TOC falsed their 131.8
>> PL would be a major issue.  But, if you want to run 131.8 PL on the same
>> channel with DPL and a turn off code kerchunking the radio every time
>> they let off the key, go for it...again, not at the same time.
>>
>> Keep smiling,
>>
>> Steve NU5D
>>
>> mch wrote:
>> > Interesting reply given my statement "Granted, the TOC could false a
>> > 131.8 Hz decoder"
>> >
>> > You're describing a problem that may exist regardless of the dual
>> > CTCSS/CDCSS encode (the topic of this thread).
>> >
>> > Also note that it will still not interfere with each other. There will
>> > merely be a 'kerchunk' of the 131.8 Hz decoder from the 134 Hz (not 131
>> > or 132 Hz) TOC of the CDCSS.
>> >
>> > Oh, and it would be just as annoying for hams as for business users.
>> >
>> > Joe M.
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

[Repeater-Builder] RC-100 Controller

[Mike Mullarkey]

I will be posting a RC-100 repeater controller on E-Bay unless there is
anyone that may be interested. For the courtesy of the list please contact
me off the list.

K7PFJ


Mike Mullarkey
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


 
 

[Repeater-Builder] Re: Are there any advantages to DCS ?

[wb6ymh]

I said "weak signals", I should have said "phase distorted and weak
signals".  My path to a local repeater is phase distorted at times and
it seemed to effect DCS, but not CTCSS.  When it gets bad I squelch
out on voice peaks, so it's not a very usable signal in any case.

73's Skip WB6YMH
--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, mch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I've seen that in general CDCSS, properly set up, will decode farther
> into the 'mud' than CTCSS, but as properly set up CTCSS will decode
> below a usable/readable signal, I'm not sure that is of much benefit.
> 
> Joe M.
> 
> wb6ymh wrote:
> > 
> > Other than the availability of additional codes when you run out of
> > CTCSS codes is there any advantage to DCS over plain Jane CTCSS?  I
> > don't know of any, it seems to me that it's harder to encode, uses
> > more of the audio spectrum and has poorer performance on weak signals.
> >  Am I missing something?
> > 
> > I've only played with DCS briefly, I'm no expert. I never had cross
> > manufacture compatibility problems with CTCSS, but it seems non
> > Motorola radios won't decode some DCS codes that Motorola will.
> > 
> > 73's Skip WB6YMH
> > 
> > 
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > 
> > 
> >
>

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Are there any advantages to DCS ?

[mch]

I've seen that in general CDCSS, properly set up, will decode farther
into the 'mud' than CTCSS, but as properly set up CTCSS will decode
below a usable/readable signal, I'm not sure that is of much benefit.

Joe M.

wb6ymh wrote:
> 
> Other than the availability of additional codes when you run out of
> CTCSS codes is there any advantage to DCS over plain Jane CTCSS?  I
> don't know of any, it seems to me that it's harder to encode, uses
> more of the audio spectrum and has poorer performance on weak signals.
>  Am I missing something?
> 
> I've only played with DCS briefly, I'm no expert. I never had cross
> manufacture compatibility problems with CTCSS, but it seems non
> Motorola radios won't decode some DCS codes that Motorola will.
> 
> 73's Skip WB6YMH
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] ctcss and dcs at same time?

[mch]

Well, within the last year several new PS systems were put on the air
using 131.8 Hz. Go figure. :-)

(No, I was not involved with the tone selection or I would have
recommended avoiding it - as well as 118.8 and 179.9 Hz.)

Joe M.

Steve S. Bosshard (NU5D) wrote:
> 
> I just left a 911 Med Dispatch Center - I am pretty sure a kerchunk
> every time another user keyed their radio and the TOC falsed their 131.8
> PL would be a major issue.  But, if you want to run 131.8 PL on the same
> channel with DPL and a turn off code kerchunking the radio every time
> they let off the key, go for it...again, not at the same time.
> 
> Keep smiling,
> 
> Steve NU5D
> 
> mch wrote:
> > Interesting reply given my statement "Granted, the TOC could false a
> > 131.8 Hz decoder"
> >
> > You're describing a problem that may exist regardless of the dual
> > CTCSS/CDCSS encode (the topic of this thread).
> >
> > Also note that it will still not interfere with each other. There will
> > merely be a 'kerchunk' of the 131.8 Hz decoder from the 134 Hz (not 131
> > or 132 Hz) TOC of the CDCSS.
> >
> > Oh, and it would be just as annoying for hams as for business users.
> >
> > Joe M.
> >
> >
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 

[Repeater-Builder] Re: ctcss and dcs at same time?

[Laryn Lohman]

>
>   Maybe as a side question, can you run two CTCSS tones at the same
time, if they are far enough apart in frequency? 
>   Rusty Coleman
>   KU4ZS


I spent several hours one afternoon trying that, and it worked, but
only with certain radios.  With the IC2350 that I was using for decode
and testing that day, I had to go up above 162.2 cycles, and the
relative deviation of the two tones (the other was 94.8) was critical
too, although I don't remember the details of it all right now.  

As stated, it worked with my Icom, but my VX5 handheld would not work
on either tone, and other various radios would not work either.  Gave
up on it...

Laryn K8TVZ

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Are there any advantages to DCS ?

[Eric Lemmon]

Until the TIA-603-C standard is changed, there are 83 DCS codes.  It really
doesn't matter if some manufacturer or user decides to "create" new codes; I
was reporting what is currently the international standard.  It is what it
is.

73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY
 

-Original Message-
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of mch
Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 7:28 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Are there any advantages to DCS ?

Maybe the other 21 CDCSS codes? There are 104 CDCSS codes, not 83 ;->

Look at the table here (the one on the bottom - not the TRN6005A table)
 >

Early Motorola equipment only supported 83 of the 104 standard codes.

Joe M.

Bob M. wrote:
> 
> After all that excellent description, you must have
> left something out! I just can't think of what it was.
> 
> Bob M.
> ==
> --- Eric Lemmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]  > wrote:
> 
> > Skip,
> >
> > Other than the availability of more CDCSS codes (83)
> > than with CTCSS (39),
> > the primary advantage is that the turn-off code is
> > standardized at 134.4 +/-
> > 0.5 Hz per the international standard TIA-603-C.
> > Thus, you can be fairly
> > certain that a Kenwood product (for example) will
> > mute silently with a
> > Motorola (for example) product. Such compatibility
> > is not assured when
> > using CTCSS, since Motorola uses a different
> > reverse-burst timing than do
> > all other commercial radio makers on the planet.
> > Before dissing Motorola,
> > be aware that TIA-603-C clearly defines two standard
> > formats for the
> > reverse-burst timing and phasing in CTCSS: One
> > format advances the phase by
> > 120 degrees (same as 240 degrees) for 180
> > milliseconds, while the other
> > format advances the phase by 180 degrees for 150
> > milliseconds. Motorola
> > chose the oddball phasing of 120 degrees because it
> > stopped the motion of a
> > Vibrasponder reed in less time than a 180-degree
> > phase shift. (Please,
> > let's not debate that splinter issue now; I'm just
> > reporting some history
> > here!)
> >
> > Motorola continued to use the 120 degree phase shift
> > for reverse burst long
> > after mechanical reeds faded from the picture, and
> > current radios now use
> > microprocessor-based tone encoding and decoding, but
> > with the same phasing
> > and timing. While a Vibrasponder reed will work
> > with either reverse-burst
> > format, digital decoders will not. An
> > application-specific tone decoder IC
> > (ASIC) can be (and certainly ARE) programmed to
> > properly decode the 120
> > degree phase shift and ignore the 180 degree phase
> > shift- and vice versa.
> > And that, my friends, is exactly why a Kenwood,
> > Icom, Vertex, Bendix-King,
> > Maxon, etc., mobile or portable radio may not
> > properly mute when accessing a
> > Motorola repeater! Likewise, a Motorola mobile or
> > portable radio may not
> > properly mute when used with a repeater or base
> > station made by the other
> > brands. I had squelch crashes when I deployed a new
> > Motorola commercial
> > repeater in a system that had several Kenwood
> > mobiles in service. Once I
> > understood the problem, I simply reprogrammed the
> > entire fleet to CDCSS, and
> > the "problem" went away.
> >
> > Before leaving the topic of CDCSS, I should point
> > out that there are only 83
> > CDCSS codes. The "Inverse Codes" exist only to
> > account for polarity
> > inversion within the receiver's audio chain; it
> > doesn't double the number of
> > possible codes. Again referring to TIA-603-C, the
> > standard CDCSS modulation
> > Type A defines a "0" data bit to be a minus
> > frequency shift, and a "1" data
> > bit to be a plus frequency shift. Inverse CDCSS
> > modulation Type B is just
> > the opposite. Some radios have an odd number of
> > polarity reversals in the
> > encoding/decoding chain, so it may be necessary to
> > select "INVERSE DCS" for
> > the proper action to occur. The CDCSS modulation is
> > an NRZ baseband FSK
> > system operating at a bit rate of 134.4 +/- 0.4 bps.
> >
> > 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
 
> > [mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
 ] On Behalf
> > Of wb6ymh
> > Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 1:35 PM
> > To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
 
> > Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Are there any advantages
> > to DCS ?
> >
> > Other than the availability of additional codes when
> > you run out of
> > CTCSS codes is there any advantage to DCS over plain
> > Jane CTCSS? I
> > don't know of any, it seems to me that it's harder
> > to encode, uses
> > more of the audio spectrum a

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Are there any advantages to DCS ?

[mch]

Maybe the other 21 CDCSS codes? There are 104 CDCSS codes, not 83 ;->

Look at the table here (the one on the bottom - not the TRN6005A table)


Early Motorola equipment only supported 83 of the 104 standard codes.

Joe M.

Bob M. wrote:
> 
> After all that excellent description, you must have
> left something out! I just can't think of what it was.
> 
> Bob M.
> ==
> --- Eric Lemmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > Skip,
> >
> > Other than the availability of more CDCSS codes (83)
> > than with CTCSS (39),
> > the primary advantage is that the turn-off code is
> > standardized at 134.4 +/-
> > 0.5 Hz per the international standard TIA-603-C.
> > Thus, you can be fairly
> > certain that a Kenwood product (for example) will
> > mute silently with a
> > Motorola (for example) product.  Such compatibility
> > is not assured when
> > using CTCSS, since Motorola uses a different
> > reverse-burst timing than do
> > all other commercial radio makers on the planet.
> > Before dissing Motorola,
> > be aware that TIA-603-C clearly defines two standard
> > formats for the
> > reverse-burst timing and phasing in CTCSS: One
> > format advances the phase by
> > 120 degrees (same as 240 degrees) for 180
> > milliseconds, while the other
> > format advances the phase by 180 degrees for 150
> > milliseconds.  Motorola
> > chose the oddball phasing of 120 degrees because it
> > stopped the motion of a
> > Vibrasponder reed in less time than a 180-degree
> > phase shift.  (Please,
> > let's not debate that splinter issue now; I'm just
> > reporting some history
> > here!)
> >
> > Motorola continued to use the 120 degree phase shift
> > for reverse burst long
> > after mechanical reeds faded from the picture, and
> > current radios now use
> > microprocessor-based tone encoding and decoding, but
> > with the same phasing
> > and timing.  While a Vibrasponder reed will work
> > with either reverse-burst
> > format, digital decoders will not.  An
> > application-specific tone decoder IC
> > (ASIC) can be (and certainly ARE) programmed to
> > properly decode the 120
> > degree phase shift and ignore the 180 degree phase
> > shift- and vice versa.
> > And that, my friends, is exactly why a Kenwood,
> > Icom, Vertex, Bendix-King,
> > Maxon, etc., mobile or portable radio may not
> > properly mute when accessing a
> > Motorola repeater!  Likewise, a Motorola mobile or
> > portable radio may not
> > properly mute when used with a repeater or base
> > station made by the other
> > brands.  I had squelch crashes when I deployed a new
> > Motorola commercial
> > repeater in a system that had several Kenwood
> > mobiles in service.  Once I
> > understood the problem, I simply reprogrammed the
> > entire fleet to CDCSS, and
> > the "problem" went away.
> >
> > Before leaving the topic of CDCSS, I should point
> > out that there are only 83
> > CDCSS codes.  The "Inverse Codes" exist only to
> > account for polarity
> > inversion within the receiver's audio chain; it
> > doesn't double the number of
> > possible codes.  Again referring to TIA-603-C, the
> > standard CDCSS modulation
> > Type A defines a "0" data bit to be a minus
> > frequency shift, and a "1" data
> > bit to be a plus frequency shift.  Inverse CDCSS
> > modulation Type B is just
> > the opposite.  Some radios have an odd number of
> > polarity reversals in the
> > encoding/decoding chain, so it may be necessary to
> > select "INVERSE DCS" for
> > the proper action to occur.  The CDCSS modulation is
> > an NRZ baseband FSK
> > system operating at a bit rate of 134.4 +/- 0.4 bps.
> >
> > 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
> > Of wb6ymh
> > Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 1:35 PM
> > To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Are there any advantages
> > to DCS ?
> >
> > Other than the availability of additional codes when
> > you run out of
> > CTCSS codes is there any advantage to DCS over plain
> > Jane CTCSS? I
> > don't know of any, it seems to me that it's harder
> > to encode, uses
> > more of the audio spectrum and has poorer
> > performance on weak signals.
> > Am I missing something?
> >
> > I've only played with DCS briefly, I'm no expert. I
> > never had cross
> > manufacture compatibility problems with CTCSS, but
> > it seems non
> > Motorola radios won't decode some DCS codes that
> > Motorola will.
> >
> > 73's Skip WB6YMH
> 
> 
> 
> 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time
> with the Yahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.
> http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#news
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 

[Repeater-Builder] Re: Are there any advantages to DCS ?

[wb6ymh]

--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "Bob M." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> After all that excellent description, you must have
> left something out! I just can't think of what it was.
> 
> Bob M.
> ==

Really!  I think I'll file that under the category of "Glad I asked!".

73's Skip WB6YMH

Re: [Repeater-Builder] ctcss and dcs at same time?

[Bob M.]

Most Motorola synthesized radios like the Spectra,
MaxTrac, MSF5000, Nucleus, and probably a lot of
others, also send the PL/DPL signal to the reference
oscillator (often called REF MOD) and "modulate" that
so it doesn't succeed at tracking the VCO modulation
and getting rid of the low-frequency shifting. That's
definitely a problem with synthesized radios, but it
can be dealt with.

Bob M.
==
--- Milt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Usually if you wish to operate both DPL and PL on
> the same channel you 
> decide in advance NOT to use 131.8Hz for anything.
> 
> I remember a salesman's radio that was set up with
> PL encode/decode and a 
> multi-DPL encoder for multiple community repeater
> access; of course that was 
> back in the days when the standard user radio was a
> Mitreck.  I don't think 
> that I would want to try it with a synthesized
> radio.  Most likely the VCO 
> would try to track out the DPL signal, crystal
> controlled radios didn't have 
> that problem.
> 
> Milt
> N3LTQ


  

Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect.  Join Yahoo!'s user panel 
and lay it on us. http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7 

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Are there any advantages to DCS ?

[Bob M.]

After all that excellent description, you must have
left something out! I just can't think of what it was.

Bob M.
==
--- Eric Lemmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Skip,
> 
> Other than the availability of more CDCSS codes (83)
> than with CTCSS (39),
> the primary advantage is that the turn-off code is
> standardized at 134.4 +/-
> 0.5 Hz per the international standard TIA-603-C. 
> Thus, you can be fairly
> certain that a Kenwood product (for example) will
> mute silently with a
> Motorola (for example) product.  Such compatibility
> is not assured when
> using CTCSS, since Motorola uses a different
> reverse-burst timing than do
> all other commercial radio makers on the planet. 
> Before dissing Motorola,
> be aware that TIA-603-C clearly defines two standard
> formats for the
> reverse-burst timing and phasing in CTCSS: One
> format advances the phase by
> 120 degrees (same as 240 degrees) for 180
> milliseconds, while the other
> format advances the phase by 180 degrees for 150
> milliseconds.  Motorola
> chose the oddball phasing of 120 degrees because it
> stopped the motion of a
> Vibrasponder reed in less time than a 180-degree
> phase shift.  (Please,
> let's not debate that splinter issue now; I'm just
> reporting some history
> here!)
> 
> Motorola continued to use the 120 degree phase shift
> for reverse burst long
> after mechanical reeds faded from the picture, and
> current radios now use
> microprocessor-based tone encoding and decoding, but
> with the same phasing
> and timing.  While a Vibrasponder reed will work
> with either reverse-burst
> format, digital decoders will not.  An
> application-specific tone decoder IC
> (ASIC) can be (and certainly ARE) programmed to
> properly decode the 120
> degree phase shift and ignore the 180 degree phase
> shift- and vice versa.
> And that, my friends, is exactly why a Kenwood,
> Icom, Vertex, Bendix-King,
> Maxon, etc., mobile or portable radio may not
> properly mute when accessing a
> Motorola repeater!  Likewise, a Motorola mobile or
> portable radio may not
> properly mute when used with a repeater or base
> station made by the other
> brands.  I had squelch crashes when I deployed a new
> Motorola commercial
> repeater in a system that had several Kenwood
> mobiles in service.  Once I
> understood the problem, I simply reprogrammed the
> entire fleet to CDCSS, and
> the "problem" went away.
> 
> Before leaving the topic of CDCSS, I should point
> out that there are only 83
> CDCSS codes.  The "Inverse Codes" exist only to
> account for polarity
> inversion within the receiver's audio chain; it
> doesn't double the number of
> possible codes.  Again referring to TIA-603-C, the
> standard CDCSS modulation
> Type A defines a "0" data bit to be a minus
> frequency shift, and a "1" data
> bit to be a plus frequency shift.  Inverse CDCSS
> modulation Type B is just
> the opposite.  Some radios have an odd number of
> polarity reversals in the
> encoding/decoding chain, so it may be necessary to
> select "INVERSE DCS" for
> the proper action to occur.  The CDCSS modulation is
> an NRZ baseband FSK
> system operating at a bit rate of 134.4 +/- 0.4 bps.
> 
> 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY
>  
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
> Of wb6ymh
> Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 1:35 PM
> To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Are there any advantages
> to DCS ?
> 
> Other than the availability of additional codes when
> you run out of
> CTCSS codes is there any advantage to DCS over plain
> Jane CTCSS? I
> don't know of any, it seems to me that it's harder
> to encode, uses
> more of the audio spectrum and has poorer
> performance on weak signals.
> Am I missing something? 
> 
> I've only played with DCS briefly, I'm no expert. I
> never had cross
> manufacture compatibility problems with CTCSS, but
> it seems non
> Motorola radios won't decode some DCS codes that
> Motorola will.
> 
> 73's Skip WB6YMH


 

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[Repeater-Builder] Re: [Motorola-User] quantar pinouts

[kc8lts]

Bob M. wrote: "These stations are relatively new, so finding one in a
ham's price range is very unlikely."  You know that's sad.  As most
repeaters are club run and the clubs should want to run good equipment
for their repeaters and they should have some money from their members
and be able to spread the cost out.  Quantars have been out since at
least 1995.  I have some at work that I service that are dated that
old.  That's 12 years old already.  I've seen a number of them for
sale for about $2000 dollars.  I know quite a few hams that will spend
that much on a single HF rig, or even more.  I guess it depends where
your priorities are.  I want to know what happened to testing new
things and ways in ham radio?

'Rant mode off'  I am a ham, I have to complain, it comes with the
ticket.  

Anyway, I only know about the VHF Quantars as that's all I have at
work, and I picked one up used myself, and am running it mixed mode
(IMBE P25/analog) here in Detroit.  It's still the 150.8 Mhz to 174
MHz receiver and it tunes out pretty good on my input in the 147 Mhz
range.  It is slightly above specs with no modifications, but not much
at all.  Off the top of my head if specs were 12db quieting at .25
microvolts, then it was running 12db quieting at about .29 or .30
microvolts after I tuned it in to the 147 MHz range.  I didn't try it
down to 144 or anything so I don't know how well it would work down
there.  The software programmed the freqs no problem.  It just gave me
a warning saying my frequency was out of the band split and asked if I
wanted to continue as performance my not be as specified.  I of course
said "just do it already" and pressed the program button and the rest
is history.  It's now been running for two years no problems.  I did
of course also turn down the power output, in case I was stressing the
PA being out of band.  I checked it on the service monitor (before it
got stolen out of my truck) and it looked pretty clean both digital
and analog. 

I don't know about hooking up a external controller, as I'm just using
the internal one.  It does all that I want it to do, which is just ID
the thing with my call in CW in CSQ.  I do have the full service
manual for the machines though.  If you want to know what the outputs
are on the thing I can try to copy some of the pages, but I'm not
copying that whole thing, it is literally four inches thick.  My
interfacing for work is done by the V.24 port or by status tone on the
back, the way they were designed, so past that right now I haven't
looked into it yet.  I haven't had the need or the time.

T.J.

--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "Bob M." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I suspect that the external interface to the Quantar
> would not include all of the signals someone would
> want for an amateur repeater controller. The station
> was designed to be controlled by a two or four wire
> line to a console. As such, it would probably use tone
> or DC signaling for control functions. No Motorola
> customer would need PL detect or even a COR.
> 
> I've seen Quantar service manuals for sale. I'm sure
> that someone could find many of those signals floating
> around on one or more circuit boards, but whether they
> appear on an accessible connector is another question.
> These stations are relatively new, so finding one in a
> ham's price range is very unlikely. That could limit
> the availability of the stations somewhat, making
> conversion to amateur service even rarer. These could
> be the reasons why repeater-builder has been looking
> for info so long.
> 
> Bob M.
> ==
> --- Don Kupferschmidt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > Hello to the group,
> > 
> > I've been watching this post (below) on
> > Motorola-User and have seen no 
> > replies.  Perhaps it's too early in the game
> > (date/time) to see some.
> > 
> > I'm also interested in the Quantars and want to gain
> > some knowledge with 
> > this system.  In looking at the repeater-builder
> > website, Kevin has asked 
> > for some articles converting the Quantars into the
> > ham bands with controller 
> > agility.  I've only seen one previous post on
> > someone tackling the Quantar 
> > system and taking it down to the ham bands.
> > 
> > So, I'm cross-posting this article into
> > repeater-builder.
> > 
> > Any of the users have either general or specific
> > knowledge on converting the 
> > Quantars that they would like to share with the rest
> > of the group?
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > 
> > Don, KD9PT
> > 
> > - Original Message - 
> > From: "copfromjersey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 12:10 PM
> > Subject: [Motorola-User] quantar pinouts
> > 
> > 
> > > Hello All,
> > >
> > > I have plans to interface a Quantar to an external
> > controller.  I
> > > understand that the Quantar has to be placed into
> > base station mode to
> > > accept a four wire control from the external
> > controller.  Does anyone
> > > have the pinouts for t

Re: [Repeater-Builder] ctcss and dcs at same time?

[Milt]

Usually if you wish to operate both DPL and PL on the same channel you 
decide in advance NOT to use 131.8Hz for anything.

I remember a salesman's radio that was set up with PL encode/decode and a 
multi-DPL encoder for multiple community repeater access; of course that was 
back in the days when the standard user radio was a Mitreck.  I don't think 
that I would want to try it with a synthesized radio.  Most likely the VCO 
would try to track out the DPL signal, crystal controlled radios didn't have 
that problem.

Milt
N3LTQ



- Original Message - 
From: "Steve S. Bosshard (NU5D)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 4:31 PM
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] ctcss and dcs at same time?


>I just left a 911 Med Dispatch Center - I am pretty sure a kerchunk
> every time another user keyed their radio and the TOC falsed their 131.8
> PL would be a major issue.  But, if you want to run 131.8 PL on the same
> channel with DPL and a turn off code kerchunking the radio every time
> they let off the key, go for it...again, not at the same time.
>
> Keep smiling,
>
> Steve NU5D
>
> mch wrote:
>> Interesting reply given my statement "Granted, the TOC could false a
>> 131.8 Hz decoder"
>>
>> You're describing a problem that may exist regardless of the dual
>> CTCSS/CDCSS encode (the topic of this thread).
>>
>> Also note that it will still not interfere with each other. There will
>> merely be a 'kerchunk' of the 131.8 Hz decoder from the 134 Hz (not 131
>> or 132 Hz) TOC of the CDCSS.
>>
>> Oh, and it would be just as annoying for hams as for business users.
>>
>> Joe M.
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Are there any advantages to DCS ?

[Bob M.]

Well, it happened to me, with an 800 MHz MaxTrac
modified for 902 MHz reception. About 3000 ft from a
very busy two-way site, with lots of paging going on.
Two or more transmitters can definitely cause intermod
or just plain mixing products and the resulting signal
can have a tone due to carriers that are 100 Hz apart.
After all the kerchunking, I changed to DPL and
haven't had a problem since.

Bob M.
==
--- Bob Dengler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> At 7/2/2007 02:16 PM, you wrote:
> 
> >DCS is a lot less prone to falsing than CTCSS is.
> In
> >particular, two paging system transmitters could
> cause
> >a heterodyne that's 100 Hz apart. This will very
> >nicely pass right into a CTCSS decoder and key a
> >repeater or even open the squelch of a receiver.
> DCS
> >just doesn't react to constant tone modulation.
> 
> I've never seen a heterodyne open a CTCSS decoder,
> but I guess it's 
> theoretically possible.  Something else to consider
> is that the 
> implementation of CTCSS decoders in many
> current-production ham equipment 
> is lacking.  In particular they are prone to falsing
> on plain ol' white 
> noise (the Kenwood G707 & V7A mobiles were notorious
> for this), & slow 
> release times.  I suspect DCS by its nature wouldn't
> have a noise falsing 
> problem, & the slow release time is negated by the
> turn-off tone.
> 
> Bob NO6B


 

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RE: [Repeater-Builder] Are there any advantages to DCS ?

[Eric Lemmon]

Skip,

Other than the availability of more CDCSS codes (83) than with CTCSS (39),
the primary advantage is that the turn-off code is standardized at 134.4 +/-
0.5 Hz per the international standard TIA-603-C.  Thus, you can be fairly
certain that a Kenwood product (for example) will mute silently with a
Motorola (for example) product.  Such compatibility is not assured when
using CTCSS, since Motorola uses a different reverse-burst timing than do
all other commercial radio makers on the planet.  Before dissing Motorola,
be aware that TIA-603-C clearly defines two standard formats for the
reverse-burst timing and phasing in CTCSS: One format advances the phase by
120 degrees (same as 240 degrees) for 180 milliseconds, while the other
format advances the phase by 180 degrees for 150 milliseconds.  Motorola
chose the oddball phasing of 120 degrees because it stopped the motion of a
Vibrasponder reed in less time than a 180-degree phase shift.  (Please,
let's not debate that splinter issue now; I'm just reporting some history
here!)

Motorola continued to use the 120 degree phase shift for reverse burst long
after mechanical reeds faded from the picture, and current radios now use
microprocessor-based tone encoding and decoding, but with the same phasing
and timing.  While a Vibrasponder reed will work with either reverse-burst
format, digital decoders will not.  An application-specific tone decoder IC
(ASIC) can be (and certainly ARE) programmed to properly decode the 120
degree phase shift and ignore the 180 degree phase shift- and vice versa.
And that, my friends, is exactly why a Kenwood, Icom, Vertex, Bendix-King,
Maxon, etc., mobile or portable radio may not properly mute when accessing a
Motorola repeater!  Likewise, a Motorola mobile or portable radio may not
properly mute when used with a repeater or base station made by the other
brands.  I had squelch crashes when I deployed a new Motorola commercial
repeater in a system that had several Kenwood mobiles in service.  Once I
understood the problem, I simply reprogrammed the entire fleet to CDCSS, and
the "problem" went away.

Before leaving the topic of CDCSS, I should point out that there are only 83
CDCSS codes.  The "Inverse Codes" exist only to account for polarity
inversion within the receiver's audio chain; it doesn't double the number of
possible codes.  Again referring to TIA-603-C, the standard CDCSS modulation
Type A defines a "0" data bit to be a minus frequency shift, and a "1" data
bit to be a plus frequency shift.  Inverse CDCSS modulation Type B is just
the opposite.  Some radios have an odd number of polarity reversals in the
encoding/decoding chain, so it may be necessary to select "INVERSE DCS" for
the proper action to occur.  The CDCSS modulation is an NRZ baseband FSK
system operating at a bit rate of 134.4 +/- 0.4 bps.

73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY
 

-Original Message-
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of wb6ymh
Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 1:35 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Are there any advantages to DCS ?

Other than the availability of additional codes when you run out of
CTCSS codes is there any advantage to DCS over plain Jane CTCSS? I
don't know of any, it seems to me that it's harder to encode, uses
more of the audio spectrum and has poorer performance on weak signals.
Am I missing something? 

I've only played with DCS briefly, I'm no expert. I never had cross
manufacture compatibility problems with CTCSS, but it seems non
Motorola radios won't decode some DCS codes that Motorola will.

73's Skip WB6YMH

[Repeater-Builder] Support for Johnson 3450 LPI Repeater

[jumpstartbill]

Greetings;

I am looking for someone in the Central North Carolina area who can
provide support for an EF Johnson 3450 Low Power Repeater (UHF), part
number 242-3450-105.  I need to have the Receiver and Transmitter
aligned, along with some basic programming.  

If anyone in the area can help me here please contact me off-list to
discuss pricing.  Thanks in advance for your help here.

Regards;

Bill Cole
KG4CXY

Re: [Repeater-Builder] ctcss and dcs at same time?

[Bob Dengler]

At 7/2/2007 04:31 PM, you wrote:

>In your case, it sounds like you're trying to link to IRLP, perhaps?
>
>It's probably better to just switch the whole repeater to
>CTCSS-follows-user when IRLP is active, and back the other way if you
>want when not.

We're doing this on one local system: the node sends DTMF to the repeater 
(like yours) to put it into "tone on COS" mode, but it also sends another 
string to put it back into "tone always" mode when disconnecting.  I guess 
the users like to hear the reset beep while decoding.  It's worked quite 
well over the years.

Bob NO6B

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Are there any advantages to DCS ?

[Bob Dengler]

At 7/2/2007 02:16 PM, you wrote:

>DCS is a lot less prone to falsing than CTCSS is. In
>particular, two paging system transmitters could cause
>a heterodyne that's 100 Hz apart. This will very
>nicely pass right into a CTCSS decoder and key a
>repeater or even open the squelch of a receiver. DCS
>just doesn't react to constant tone modulation.

I've never seen a heterodyne open a CTCSS decoder, but I guess it's 
theoretically possible.  Something else to consider is that the 
implementation of CTCSS decoders in many current-production ham equipment 
is lacking.  In particular they are prone to falsing on plain ol' white 
noise (the Kenwood G707 & V7A mobiles were notorious for this), & slow 
release times.  I suspect DCS by its nature wouldn't have a noise falsing 
problem, & the slow release time is negated by the turn-off tone.

Bob NO6B

Re: [Repeater-Builder] ctcss and dcs at same time?

[Nate Duehr]

Rusty Coleman wrote:
> Maybe as a side question, can you run two CTCSS tones at the same time, 
> if they are far enough apart in frequency?  Currently I have a 123.0hz 
> tone on our repeater, and I need to also encode a tone only when a user 
> is actually transmitting, for linking purposes.  I do not care what the 
> frequency of this other tone is, as long as it wont interfere with the 
> 123.0hz tone.

A local group here has "experimented" with mixing 103.5 and 123.0 for a 
number of years to "alert" on some things that happen on a particular 
repeater.

It's completely up to the receiver as to whether or not it works. 
Typically the more "modern" the receiver, the less chance it has of 
working properly.

In your case, it sounds like you're trying to link to IRLP, perhaps?

It's probably better to just switch the whole repeater to 
CTCSS-follows-user when IRLP is active, and back the other way if you 
want when not.

(We just left ours in CTCSS-follows-User, even though we originally 
planned to switch it back and forth with DTMF from the IRLP node.  Once 
in a while I punch in the "normal" mode out of boredom... just to play 
with it.  The IRLP still always sends the command to switch "just in 
case" so it doesn't matter what mode it gets left in.)

Nate WY0X

[Repeater-Builder] Re: ctcss and dcs at the same time?

[Al Wolfe]

Rusty,
A lot of us only transmit PL tone during COR. There is little reason to 
send tone during ID's or the tail. For situations like Echolink, etc. it is 
the only way to go. Just gate the ctcss tone with R-COR. Problem solved.

Al, K9SI


>  Maybe as a side question, can you run two CTCSS tones at the same time, 
> if they are far enough apart in frequency?  Currently I have a 123.0hz 
> tone on our repeater, and I need to also encode a tone only when a user is 
> actually transmitting, for linking purposes.  I do not care what the 
> frequency of this other tone is, as long as it wont interfere with the 
> 123.0hz tone.
>
 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Are there any advantages to DCS ?

[Bob M.]

It can take a bit longer to decode, but only by 10-20
milliseconds. It could also be a bit less reliable
than CTCSS in noisy situations. It also is only
commonly available in newer radios, at least those
made since the late 1980s but might have been an
option in earlier radios. You have to check carefully
on the new handhelds; some have it, some don't.
Similarly, almost every radio can encode CTCSS, but
some require an optional decoder module.

One big benefit is that the turn-off code that gets
sent out is part of the DCS standard, so everybody's
receivers should be squelch-tail free when listening
to a DCS transmission. There were differences between
Motorola's PL system and the industry's CTCSS, so the
reverse-burst squelch-tail elimination method won't
necessarily work across systems. This can be a
marketing "good thing" or "bad thing" depending on
which company you work for.

Theoreticaly there are 512 DCS codes, 000-777 (octal
values) but many of these are not usable because they
will respond to other code settings as well; that's
just the way the codes work. This reduces the actual
number of approved codes to something around 100.
Motorola has their list of acceptable codes which is
even less; they've done exhaustive tests with them. To
make matters worse, you can have Normal or Inverted
DCS codes; it does matter, and it depends on how the
radio generates the code and modulates its carrier.

DCS is a lot less prone to falsing than CTCSS is. In
particular, two paging system transmitters could cause
a heterodyne that's 100 Hz apart. This will very
nicely pass right into a CTCSS decoder and key a
repeater or even open the squelch of a receiver. DCS
just doesn't react to constant tone modulation.

Bob M.
==
--- wb6ymh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Other than the availability of additional codes when
> you run out of
> CTCSS codes is there any advantage to DCS over plain
> Jane CTCSS?  I
> don't know of any, it seems to me that it's harder
> to encode, uses
> more of the audio spectrum and has poorer
> performance on weak signals.
>  Am I missing something?  
> 
> I've only played with DCS briefly, I'm no expert. I
> never had cross
> manufacture compatibility problems with CTCSS, but
> it seems non
> Motorola radios won't decode some DCS codes that
> Motorola will.
> 
> 73's Skip WB6YMH


   

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RE: [Repeater-Builder] ctcss and dcs at same time?

[n9wys]

And therein lies the inherent problem... most radio equipment today use
microprocessor-based encoders/decoders.  Older commercial equipment may have
used reeds and such, but current technology has gone away from that.

I'm not debating whether this will or won't work but rather, given the
current technology being employed for this purpose, the tendency will be
more toward "not working" for just the reason you cited below.

Mark - N9WYS

-Original Message-
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of mch

If they are far enough apart in frequency and of the same relative
amplitude, yes.

Whil I cannot say either will always work, I have proven that those who
say it cannot work are wrong.

It will also depend on the type of decoder used. Many times
microprocessor based decoders may reject both tones.

Joe M.

Rusty Coleman wrote:
> 
> So I am hearing yes and no.  I would be using an outboard encoder for
> one of the two, and the VXR-7000's built in encoder for the other.  I
> guess since it is not an obvious "yes" then it may or may not work,
> and it may or may not work on each user's individual radio.  I need to
> avoid that situation, it needs to either work or I won't use it.
> 
> Maybe as a side question, can you run two CTCSS tones at the same
> time, if they are far enough apart in frequency?  Currently I have a
> 123.0hz tone on our repeater, and I need to also encode a tone only
> when a user is actually transmitting, for linking purposes.  I do not
> care what the frequency of this other tone is, as long as it wont
> interfere with the 123.0hz tone.
> 
> 
> Thanks
> Rusty Coleman
> KU4ZS
> 
> Jim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
>  WD7F - John in Tucson wrote:
>  > Tell us how, please. I ended up using PL and DPL but not
>  at the same time.
>  > The Kenwood's community panel allows multiple PLs and
>  crossover as required
>  > but only one can be used at a time. Another quirk is that
>  the repeater must
>  > drop before it will respond to a different PL or DPL
>  input.
>  >
>  > So, how did you go about simultaneous PL/DPL?
>  >
> 
>  It definitely does require 2 encoders-one of each.
> 
>  --
>  Jim Barbour
>  WD8CHL 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] ctcss and dcs at same time?

[Bob Dengler]

At 7/2/2007 12:22 PM, you wrote:
>I think that either way, it's up to the individual
>receiver as to how well it operates, if at all. I'd
>suggest that you don't do it rather than risk some
>radios working and some not.
>
>You could run two CTCSS tones, but beware of the sum
>and difference frequencies. If the difference happens
>to be near another CTCSS tone frequency, you'll get
>falsing on that frequency as well. Also, the sum will

Wouldn't that require mixing (distortion)?

FWIW, I once tried using 2 CTCSS tones on one of my links (all G.E. MVP TX 
& RX).  If they were 1 or 2 standard tone frequencies apart, the G.E. CG 
decoders wouldn't decode either of them.  However, if they were 4 or more 
standard freqs. apart, it seemed to work.

Bob NO6B

Re: [Repeater-Builder] ctcss and dcs at same time?

[Steve S. Bosshard (NU5D)]

I just left a 911 Med Dispatch Center - I am pretty sure a kerchunk 
every time another user keyed their radio and the TOC falsed their 131.8 
PL would be a major issue.  But, if you want to run 131.8 PL on the same 
channel with DPL and a turn off code kerchunking the radio every time 
they let off the key, go for it...again, not at the same time.

Keep smiling,

Steve NU5D

mch wrote:
> Interesting reply given my statement "Granted, the TOC could false a
> 131.8 Hz decoder"
>
> You're describing a problem that may exist regardless of the dual
> CTCSS/CDCSS encode (the topic of this thread).
>
> Also note that it will still not interfere with each other. There will
> merely be a 'kerchunk' of the 131.8 Hz decoder from the 134 Hz (not 131
> or 132 Hz) TOC of the CDCSS.
>
> Oh, and it would be just as annoying for hams as for business users.
>
> Joe M.
>   
>   

[Repeater-Builder] Are there any advantages to DCS ?

[wb6ymh]

Other than the availability of additional codes when you run out of
CTCSS codes is there any advantage to DCS over plain Jane CTCSS?  I
don't know of any, it seems to me that it's harder to encode, uses
more of the audio spectrum and has poorer performance on weak signals.
 Am I missing something?  

I've only played with DCS briefly, I'm no expert. I never had cross
manufacture compatibility problems with CTCSS, but it seems non
Motorola radios won't decode some DCS codes that Motorola will.

73's Skip WB6YMH

Re: [Repeater-Builder] preamp

[Robert Ryan]

Hi I may ahve one do you have the part # Rob
  - Original Message - 
  From: Ron Wright, Skywarn Coodinator 
  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 10:47 AM
  Subject: [Repeater-Builder] preamp


  Hi all,

  I am in need of a Motorola Mitrek VHF (150 MHz) receiver pre-amp.

  Please let me know if you have one for sale.

  73, ron, n9ee/r
  Tampa Bay, FL



   

Re: [Repeater-Builder] ctcss and dcs at same time?

[mch]

If they are far enough apart in frequency and of the same relative
amplitude, yes.

Whil I cannot say either will always work, I have proven that those who
say it cannot work are wrong.

It will also depend on the type of decoder used. Many times
microprocessor based decoders may reject both tones.

Joe M.

Rusty Coleman wrote:
> 
> So I am hearing yes and no.  I would be using an outboard encoder for
> one of the two, and the VXR-7000's built in encoder for the other.  I
> guess since it is not an obvious "yes" then it may or may not work,
> and it may or may not work on each user's individual radio.  I need to
> avoid that situation, it needs to either work or I won't use it.
> 
> Maybe as a side question, can you run two CTCSS tones at the same
> time, if they are far enough apart in frequency?  Currently I have a
> 123.0hz tone on our repeater, and I need to also encode a tone only
> when a user is actually transmitting, for linking purposes.  I do not
> care what the frequency of this other tone is, as long as it wont
> interfere with the 123.0hz tone.
> 
> 
> Thanks
> Rusty Coleman
> KU4ZS
> 
> Jim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
>  WD7F - John in Tucson wrote:
>  > Tell us how, please. I ended up using PL and DPL but not
>  at the same time.
>  > The Kenwood's community panel allows multiple PLs and
>  crossover as required
>  > but only one can be used at a time. Another quirk is that
>  the repeater must
>  > drop before it will respond to a different PL or DPL
>  input.
>  >
>  > So, how did you go about simultaneous PL/DPL?
>  >
> 
>  It definitely does require 2 encoders-one of each.
> 
>  --
>  Jim Barbour
>  WD8CHL
> 
>  Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's Comedy with an Edge to see
> what's on, when. 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] ctcss and dcs at same time?

[mch]

Interesting reply given my statement "Granted, the TOC could false a
131.8 Hz decoder"

You're describing a problem that may exist regardless of the dual
CTCSS/CDCSS encode (the topic of this thread).

Also note that it will still not interfere with each other. There will
merely be a 'kerchunk' of the 131.8 Hz decoder from the 134 Hz (not 131
or 132 Hz) TOC of the CDCSS.

Oh, and it would be just as annoying for hams as for business users.

Joe M.

Steve S. Bosshard (NU5D) wrote:
> 
> It would be a problem my friend because the 132.0 will cause the
> repeater to decode 131.8 during the turn off interval and ker chunk that
> tone briefly, with out any reverse burst.
> 
> When the DPL radio releases the PTT it does not immediately quit
> sending, but instead sends a burst of 131 hz turn off code.  If your
> panel is equipped for 131.8 it will ker chunk just a moment - no problem
> for hams, but on a business repeater the 131.8 guy will get annoyed.
> Wish I could remember if TOC is 131 or 132 - the data rate is 134, but
> thats another story - Seems like Ferritronics had an application not for
> this, if they were still in business.
> 
> Have your self a super 4th,  Steve NU5D
> 
> mch wrote:
> > A problem? Why?
> >
> > When the turn-off code is sent *after* you have unkeyed. Who cares what
> > stops decoding after you've stopped transmitting, as any decoder should
> > stop decoding then.
> >
> > Granted, the TOC could false a 131.8 Hz decoder, but not while the
> > person is transmitting.
> >
> > Joe M.
> >
> > Steve S. Bosshard (NU5D) wrote:
> >
> >> The DCS turn off code is 132 hz.  So, 131.8 hz ctcss and dcs could be a
> >> problem.
> >>
> >
> >
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] ctcss and dcs at same time?

[mch]

Simple. One case was an HT-90 with stock CDCSS. I added a CTCSS board
for it to access a different repeater. Both channels (the CDCSS one and
the CTCSS) one worked fine.

It's likely your panel is not capable of dual encode by itself, or is
programmed to not respond to a different CTCSS/CDCSS until it drops. My
panels have that OPTION too, but it is rarely used. I usually program it
to allow interrupt.

Joe M.

WD7F - John in Tucson wrote:
> 
> Tell us how, please.  I ended up using PL and DPL but not at the same time.
> The Kenwood's community panel allows multiple PLs and crossover as required
> but only one can be used at a time.  Another quirk is that the repeater must
> drop before it will respond to a different PL or DPL input.
> 
> So, how did you go about simultaneous  PL/DPL?
> 
> de WD7F
> John in Tucson
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: "mch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 9:17 AM
> Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] ctcss and dcs at same time?
> 
> I've done it successfully.
> 
> Joe M.
> 
> DaveH wrote:
> >
> > chances are one will interfere with the other.  They would but be present
> > and active at the same time. I have never seen it done successfully.
> > David R. Henry LME
> > Licensed Master Electrician
> > Amateur Radio  W2DRH
> > Member ARRL
> > Accredited Instructor
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Jim" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: 
> > Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 11:08 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] ctcss and dcs at same time?
> >
> > > ku4zs1 wrote:
> > >> Is it possible to run CTCSS and DCS at the same time on a
> > >> transmitter?  Aside from the fact that most radios will not allow you
> > >> to select both at the same time (I will be using an outboard DCS
> > >> encoder and the built in CTCSS encoder).  I am not sure if they are
> > >> capable of both running at the same time.  Thanks.
> > >
> > > Chances are-the transmitter will be perfectly happy. The decoder on the
> > > other end most likely will not.
> > >
> > > I have never been successful at it, even using a good service monitor
> > > with an outboard DCS encoder (test instrument grade, I think it was a
> > > Motorola box) as the 'trasnmitter'. Several different radios, none would
> > > decode both.
> > > --
> > > Jim Barbour
> > > WD8CHL
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.9.14/883 - Release Date: 7/1/2007
> 12:19 PM
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] ctcss and dcs at same time?

[Bob M.]

I think that either way, it's up to the individual
receiver as to how well it operates, if at all. I'd
suggest that you don't do it rather than risk some
radios working and some not.

You could run two CTCSS tones, but beware of the sum
and difference frequencies. If the difference happens
to be near another CTCSS tone frequency, you'll get
falsing on that frequency as well. Also, the sum will
probably be above 300 Hz, thus becoming quite audible
and noticeable by most users. Do you want all the
complaints too?

Bob M.
==
--- Rusty Coleman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> So I am hearing yes and no.  I would be using an
> outboard encoder for one of the two, and the
> VXR-7000's built in encoder for the other.  I guess
> since it is not an obvious "yes" then it may or may
> not work, and it may or may not work on each user's
> individual radio.  I need to avoid that situation,
> it needs to either work or I won't use it.
>
>   Maybe as a side question, can you run two CTCSS
> tones at the same time, if they are far enough apart
> in frequency?  Currently I have a 123.0hz tone on
> our repeater, and I need to also encode a tone only
> when a user is actually transmitting, for linking
> purposes.  I do not care what the frequency of this
> other tone is, as long as it wont interfere with the
> 123.0hz tone.
>
>
>   Thanks
>   Rusty Coleman
>   KU4ZS
> 
> Jim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>   WD7F - John in Tucson wrote:
> > Tell us how, please. I ended up using PL and DPL
> but not at the same time.
> > The Kenwood's community panel allows multiple PLs
> and crossover as required
> > but only one can be used at a time. Another quirk
> is that the repeater must
> > drop before it will respond to a different PL or
> DPL input.
> > 
> > So, how did you go about simultaneous PL/DPL?
> > 
> 
> It definitely does require 2 encoders-one of each.
> 
> -- 
> Jim Barbour
> WD8CHL


   

Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! 
FareChase.
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[Repeater-Builder] Re: ctcss and dcs at same time?

[wb6ymh]

Do you really need to encode your "normal" tone when user is not
talking?  Seems like it would be way simpler and goof proof to use a
single tone for both purposes.  If your user wants to hear the ID,
function tones or whatever he could just listen in carrier squelch.

73's Skip WB6YMH
--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Rusty Coleman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> So I am hearing yes and no.  I would be using an outboard encoder
for one of the two, and the VXR-7000's built in encoder for the other.
 I guess since it is not an obvious "yes" then it may or may not work,
and it may or may not work on each user's individual radio.  I need to
avoid that situation, it needs to either work or I won't use it.
>
>   Maybe as a side question, can you run two CTCSS tones at the same
time, if they are far enough apart in frequency?  Currently I have a
123.0hz tone on our repeater, and I need to also encode a tone only
when a user is actually transmitting, for linking purposes.  I do not
care what the frequency of this other tone is, as long as it wont
interfere with the 123.0hz tone.
>
>
>   Thanks
>   Rusty Coleman
>   KU4ZS
> 
> Jim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>   WD7F - John in Tucson wrote:
> > Tell us how, please. I ended up using PL and DPL but not at the
same time.
> > The Kenwood's community panel allows multiple PLs and crossover as
required
> > but only one can be used at a time. Another quirk is that the
repeater must
> > drop before it will respond to a different PL or DPL input.
> > 
> > So, how did you go about simultaneous PL/DPL?
> > 
> 
> It definitely does require 2 encoders-one of each.
> 
> -- 
> Jim Barbour
> WD8CHL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>
> -
> Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's Comedy with an Edge to see
what's on, when.
>

Re: [Repeater-Builder] ctcss and dcs at same time?

[Rusty Coleman]

So I am hearing yes and no.  I would be using an outboard encoder for one of 
the two, and the VXR-7000's built in encoder for the other.  I guess since it 
is not an obvious "yes" then it may or may not work, and it may or may not work 
on each user's individual radio.  I need to avoid that situation, it needs to 
either work or I won't use it.
   
  Maybe as a side question, can you run two CTCSS tones at the same time, if 
they are far enough apart in frequency?  Currently I have a 123.0hz tone on our 
repeater, and I need to also encode a tone only when a user is actually 
transmitting, for linking purposes.  I do not care what the frequency of this 
other tone is, as long as it wont interfere with the 123.0hz tone.
   
   
  Thanks
  Rusty Coleman
  KU4ZS

Jim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  WD7F - John in Tucson wrote:
> Tell us how, please. I ended up using PL and DPL but not at the same time.
> The Kenwood's community panel allows multiple PLs and crossover as required
> but only one can be used at a time. Another quirk is that the repeater must
> drop before it will respond to a different PL or DPL input.
> 
> So, how did you go about simultaneous PL/DPL?
> 

It definitely does require 2 encoders-one of each.

-- 
Jim Barbour
WD8CHL






Yahoo! Groups Links





   
-
Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, 
when. 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] ctcss and dcs at same time?

[Steve S. Bosshard (NU5D)]

It would be a problem my friend because the 132.0 will cause the 
repeater to decode 131.8 during the turn off interval and ker chunk that 
tone briefly, with out any reverse burst.

When the DPL radio releases the PTT it does not immediately quit 
sending, but instead sends a burst of 131 hz turn off code.  If your 
panel is equipped for 131.8 it will ker chunk just a moment - no problem 
for hams, but on a business repeater the 131.8 guy will get annoyed.  
Wish I could remember if TOC is 131 or 132 - the data rate is 134, but 
thats another story - Seems like Ferritronics had an application not for 
this, if they were still in business.

Have your self a super 4th,  Steve NU5D


mch wrote:
> A problem? Why?
>
> When the turn-off code is sent *after* you have unkeyed. Who cares what
> stops decoding after you've stopped transmitting, as any decoder should
> stop decoding then.
>
> Granted, the TOC could false a 131.8 Hz decoder, but not while the
> person is transmitting.
>
> Joe M.
>
> Steve S. Bosshard (NU5D) wrote:
>   
>> The DCS turn off code is 132 hz.  So, 131.8 hz ctcss and dcs could be a
>> problem.
>> 
>
>   

Re: [Repeater-Builder] ctcss and dcs at same time?

[mch]

A problem? Why?

When the turn-off code is sent *after* you have unkeyed. Who cares what
stops decoding after you've stopped transmitting, as any decoder should
stop decoding then.

Granted, the TOC could false a 131.8 Hz decoder, but not while the
person is transmitting.

Joe M.

Steve S. Bosshard (NU5D) wrote:
> 
> The DCS turn off code is 132 hz.  So, 131.8 hz ctcss and dcs could be a
> problem.

[Repeater-Builder] Re: tower mounts

[Ron Wright, Skywarn Coodinator]

John,

Tessco at www.tessco.com has a verity of mounts from many 
manufactures.  Some say you need an account to do business with them, 
but some say it is easy to set up.

One note:  if you are mounting a UHF antenna get it away from the tower 
including bay type antennas.  The X mounts usually mount close to the 
tower and on UHF the legs will affect the SWR of the antenna and 
probably the performance/radiation.  Also if antenna is of any length 
like the station master or multi-folded dipoles provide both a top and 
bottom mount.

73, ron, n9ee/r




--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "JOHN MACKEY" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> I need to get mounts for side mounting an antenna to a tower.  Who is
> supplying stuff like that now days?
>

Re: [Repeater-Builder] ctcss and dcs at same time?

[Jim]

WD7F - John in Tucson wrote:
> Tell us how, please.  I ended up using PL and DPL but not at the same time.
> The Kenwood's community panel allows multiple PLs and crossover as required
> but only one can be used at a time.  Another quirk is that the repeater must
> drop before it will respond to a different PL or DPL input.
> 
> So, how did you go about simultaneous  PL/DPL?
> 

It definitely does require 2 encoders-one of each.

-- 
Jim Barbour
WD8CHL





 
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[Repeater-Builder] preamp

[Ron Wright, Skywarn Coodinator]

Hi all,

I am in need of a Motorola Mitrek VHF (150 MHz) receiver pre-amp.

Please let me know if you have one for sale.

73, ron, n9ee/r
Tampa Bay, FL

Re: [Repeater-Builder] ctcss and dcs at same time?

[WD7F - John in Tucson]

Tell us how, please.  I ended up using PL and DPL but not at the same time.
The Kenwood's community panel allows multiple PLs and crossover as required
but only one can be used at a time.  Another quirk is that the repeater must
drop before it will respond to a different PL or DPL input.

So, how did you go about simultaneous  PL/DPL?

de WD7F
John in Tucson




- Original Message - 
From: "mch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 9:17 AM
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] ctcss and dcs at same time?


I've done it successfully.

Joe M.

DaveH wrote:
>
> chances are one will interfere with the other.  They would but be present
> and active at the same time. I have never seen it done successfully.
> David R. Henry LME
> Licensed Master Electrician
> Amateur Radio  W2DRH
> Member ARRL
> Accredited Instructor
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Jim" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 11:08 AM
> Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] ctcss and dcs at same time?
>
> > ku4zs1 wrote:
> >> Is it possible to run CTCSS and DCS at the same time on a
> >> transmitter?  Aside from the fact that most radios will not allow you
> >> to select both at the same time (I will be using an outboard DCS
> >> encoder and the built in CTCSS encoder).  I am not sure if they are
> >> capable of both running at the same time.  Thanks.
> >
> > Chances are-the transmitter will be perfectly happy. The decoder on the
> > other end most likely will not.
> >
> > I have never been successful at it, even using a good service monitor
> > with an outboard DCS encoder (test instrument grade, I think it was a
> > Motorola box) as the 'trasnmitter'. Several different radios, none would
> > decode both.
> > --
> > Jim Barbour
> > WD8CHL
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>





Yahoo! Groups Links







-- 
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.9.14/883 - Release Date: 7/1/2007
12:19 PM






 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] ctcss and dcs at same time?

[mch]

Can you give one example? (and please don't use the turn-off code, as
I'm about to debunk that one in another post)

Joe M.

Gary Schafer wrote:
> 
> Also in a mixed system, some
> radios looking for dcs and some ctcss, there are some ctcss codes that will
> respond to some ctcss codes and the other way around also, so you have to be
> careful of code selection.

RE: [Repeater-Builder] ctcss and dcs at same time?

[Gary Schafer]

Well, you can use either but I don't think they will work at the same time
as others have said the decoders won't like it. Also in a mixed system, some
radios looking for dcs and some ctcss, there are some ctcss codes that will
respond to some ctcss codes and the other way around also, so you have to be
careful of code selection.

Transmitting both at the same time will not cause them to mix however, that
is unless you have a very non linear audio system. But the decoder dcs
decoder will see a wave of a ctcss tone at times as part of a dcs pulse and
will either false or lock out because of it. The reverse can also happen
with the ctcss decoder. The repetition rate of both are close to each other
and the dcs is transmitted as more of a sin wave than it is a square wave so
the decoders have a hard time distinguishing each other.

73
Gary  K4FMX

> -Original Message-
> From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater-
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bob M.
> Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 10:25 AM
> To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] ctcss and dcs at same time?
> 
> Both signals are generated by the microprocessor,
> which has enough troubles doing just one, hence the
> programming restriction that only lets you choose one
> or the other.
> 
> They both modulate the VCO. CTCSS is a continuous
> sine-wave, DCS is a continuous binary coded
> square-wave with varying positive and negative pulse
> widths. IF you could generate both, or feed both to
> the VCO, at the same time, you'd end up with a mixing
> situation, where you would end up with both
> fundamental signals plus the sum and difference. The
> CTCSS would interfere with the DCS and vice versa. The
> sum and difference would also get into the mix. The
> poor microprocessor in the receiver, attempting to
> locate, lock on, and recognize/decode the signals
> would see a constantly changing input and just say
> "fuggedaboudit". Even two discrete decoders would have
> problems. However a vibrating reed might have some
> luck with the CTCSS, but not much you can do about the
> DCS as it always requires some complex electronics or
> software algorithm to be decoded.
> 
> Nothing says you can't send either signal to the VCO
> based on what the receiver is hearing. Just not both
> at the same time.
> 
> Bob M.
> ==
> --- ku4zs1 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > Is it possible to run CTCSS and DCS at the same time
> > on a
> > transmitter?  Aside from the fact that most radios
> > will not allow you
> > to select both at the same time (I will be using an
> > outboard DCS
> > encoder and the built in CTCSS encoder).  I am not
> > sure if they are
> > capable of both running at the same time.  Thanks.
> >
> >
> > Rusty Coleman
> > KU4ZS
> 
> 
> 
> __
> __
> Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who
> knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
> http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545433
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] ctcss and dcs at same time?

[Steve S. Bosshard (NU5D)]

The DCS turn off code is 132 hz.  So, 131.8 hz ctcss and dcs could be a 
problem.  Otherwise we ran dcs with paging tones because tone coded 
squelch and paging tones do have issues.  I would think the two would be 
OK, but where are you going to find a radio to encode tone and dcs at 
the same time?

If you mean both on the same repeater at different times - no problem 
notwithstanding 131.8 hz.  We have mixed ctcss and dcs on community 
business repeaters with no ill effects.

Steve NU5D


DaveH wrote:
> chances are one will interfere with the other.  They would but be present 
> and active at the same time. I have never seen it done successfully.
> David R. Henry LME
> Licensed Master Electrician
> Amateur Radio  W2DRH
> Member ARRL
> Accredited Instructor
>   

Re: [Repeater-Builder] ctcss and dcs at same time?

[mch]

I've done it successfully.

Joe M.

DaveH wrote:
> 
> chances are one will interfere with the other.  They would but be present
> and active at the same time. I have never seen it done successfully.
> David R. Henry LME
> Licensed Master Electrician
> Amateur Radio  W2DRH
> Member ARRL
> Accredited Instructor
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: "Jim" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 11:08 AM
> Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] ctcss and dcs at same time?
> 
> > ku4zs1 wrote:
> >> Is it possible to run CTCSS and DCS at the same time on a
> >> transmitter?  Aside from the fact that most radios will not allow you
> >> to select both at the same time (I will be using an outboard DCS
> >> encoder and the built in CTCSS encoder).  I am not sure if they are
> >> capable of both running at the same time.  Thanks.
> >
> > Chances are-the transmitter will be perfectly happy. The decoder on the
> > other end most likely will not.
> >
> > I have never been successful at it, even using a good service monitor
> > with an outboard DCS encoder (test instrument grade, I think it was a
> > Motorola box) as the 'trasnmitter'. Several different radios, none would
> > decode both.
> > --
> > Jim Barbour
> > WD8CHL
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] ctcss and dcs at same time?

[Bob M.]

Both signals are generated by the microprocessor,
which has enough troubles doing just one, hence the
programming restriction that only lets you choose one
or the other.

They both modulate the VCO. CTCSS is a continuous
sine-wave, DCS is a continuous binary coded
square-wave with varying positive and negative pulse
widths. IF you could generate both, or feed both to
the VCO, at the same time, you'd end up with a mixing
situation, where you would end up with both
fundamental signals plus the sum and difference. The
CTCSS would interfere with the DCS and vice versa. The
sum and difference would also get into the mix. The
poor microprocessor in the receiver, attempting to
locate, lock on, and recognize/decode the signals
would see a constantly changing input and just say
"fuggedaboudit". Even two discrete decoders would have
problems. However a vibrating reed might have some
luck with the CTCSS, but not much you can do about the
DCS as it always requires some complex electronics or
software algorithm to be decoded.

Nothing says you can't send either signal to the VCO
based on what the receiver is hearing. Just not both
at the same time.

Bob M.
==
--- ku4zs1 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Is it possible to run CTCSS and DCS at the same time
> on a 
> transmitter?  Aside from the fact that most radios
> will not allow you 
> to select both at the same time (I will be using an
> outboard DCS 
> encoder and the built in CTCSS encoder).  I am not
> sure if they are 
> capable of both running at the same time.  Thanks.
> 
> 
> Rusty Coleman
> KU4ZS


   

Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. 
Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. 
http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545433

Re: [Repeater-Builder] ctcss and dcs at same time?

[DaveH]

chances are one will interfere with the other.  They would but be present 
and active at the same time. I have never seen it done successfully.
David R. Henry LME
Licensed Master Electrician
Amateur Radio  W2DRH
Member ARRL
Accredited Instructor

- Original Message - 
From: "Jim" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 11:08 AM
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] ctcss and dcs at same time?


> ku4zs1 wrote:
>> Is it possible to run CTCSS and DCS at the same time on a
>> transmitter?  Aside from the fact that most radios will not allow you
>> to select both at the same time (I will be using an outboard DCS
>> encoder and the built in CTCSS encoder).  I am not sure if they are
>> capable of both running at the same time.  Thanks.
>
> Chances are-the transmitter will be perfectly happy. The decoder on the
> other end most likely will not.
>
> I have never been successful at it, even using a good service monitor
> with an outboard DCS encoder (test instrument grade, I think it was a
> Motorola box) as the 'trasnmitter'. Several different radios, none would
> decode both.
> -- 
> Jim Barbour
> WD8CHL
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] ctcss and dcs at same time?

[Jim]

ku4zs1 wrote:
> Is it possible to run CTCSS and DCS at the same time on a 
> transmitter?  Aside from the fact that most radios will not allow you 
> to select both at the same time (I will be using an outboard DCS 
> encoder and the built in CTCSS encoder).  I am not sure if they are 
> capable of both running at the same time.  Thanks.

Chances are-the transmitter will be perfectly happy. The decoder on the 
other end most likely will not.

I have never been successful at it, even using a good service monitor 
with an outboard DCS encoder (test instrument grade, I think it was a 
Motorola box) as the 'trasnmitter'. Several different radios, none would 
decode both.
-- 
Jim Barbour
WD8CHL

[Repeater-Builder] ctcss and dcs at same time?

[ku4zs1]

Is it possible to run CTCSS and DCS at the same time on a 
transmitter?  Aside from the fact that most radios will not allow you 
to select both at the same time (I will be using an outboard DCS 
encoder and the built in CTCSS encoder).  I am not sure if they are 
capable of both running at the same time.  Thanks.


Rusty Coleman
KU4ZS

[Repeater-Builder] tait t800 series 2

[ASK ME]

hello all just joined this wonderful group was wondering if anyone can 
help me out with a few things with the tait t800 series 2.what i need 
is the software to program this beast and a diagram of the programming 
cable also looking for operating and service manuals.thanks with kind 
regards.laurie

[Repeater-Builder] Looking for a Delta SX VHF wideband receive preamp

[dieselheart001]

Hello and Happy 4th!!


Does anyone have (or know someone who does) a 
receive preamp for a wideband Delta SX VHF 150-
174 MHZ? I think GE part # is 19C851229G3, option
N3RA1C...

Thanks and 73!!

Mark KE5LIB

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Cable formula

[Jeff DePolo]

> Sure, a UHF isolator will not protect the transmitter from 
> VHF transmitter junk. But isn't the flip side that out of 
> band VHF junk is less likely to produce UHF transmitter 
> intermod than in band transmitter junk? 

Not necessarily.  If it were the other way around (UHF coming back down the
hose into a VHF transmitter), the harmonic filter built into the PA would
prevent the VHF energy from getting to the devices.

I had a UHF repeater (GE Mastr II 1/4 kW tube) with a VHF remote base (25
watt Micor mobile).  The two antennas were about 20' apart from tip of the
VHF to bottom of the UHF.  I had mix problems in the tube PA that produces
products at frequencies that intermod math would never predict to occur when
the remote base Tx was keyed up.  Adding a pass cavity to the repeater Tx
cured it.

> And also, while a VHF 
> band pass cavity might do its job resisting unwanted in band 
> stuff, doesn't this cavity still easily pass undesired junk 
> at frequency multiples?

Sometimes yes.  A quarter wave cavity will resonate just fine at odd
multiples.  The converse isn't true though; a UHF pass cavity will do a good
job of keeping out VHF.


--- Jeff

[Repeater-Builder] Re: Toko Filters For Sale

[jeffk]

I still have more filters.  Does anyone else want to put a Maxtrac on
902 MHz?

'JK

--- In various yahoo groups, W6JK wrote:
>
> I have a supply of the TOKO 6DFB-915E-10 filters for
> MaxTrac 902 MHz conversions. I'm offering them to members of the Group
> for $20 per pair shipped, first come first served. I accept PayPal,
> USPS money orders, and personal checks. Email me to make payment
> arrangements.
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> 73,
> Jeff W6JK
>