Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: ROIP interfaces
Hi Walter, Actually we are evaluating ROIP products for a major dealer network where my job is purely RF engineering for OEM compatibility. Granted, I am casting a rather wide net here on a fact finding mission to see if the group is aware of any other brands that I had not covered. As for pricing, we will be dealing at OEM level, so its a volume issue as well as features and performance. In NZ we refer to a trigger base as a semi duplex radio (On Mobile Frequencies) that is mounted at a fixed location. Often these are line controlled via EM, or in our instances ROIP. Hope this helps? Regards Gareth Bennett - Original Message - From: ka1jfy To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 7:41 AM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: ROIP interfaces What do you consider a reasonable price? And what features are you specifically looking for them to have? BTW, what is a 'trigger base'? A control station? [I love when IT guys try to do radio] Walter KD7BJJ --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Gareth Bennett \(Ihug\) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Group, I am looking for options for ROIP interfaces that can be interfaced to base stations. I am aware of the major brands such as Omnitronics, Telex/Vega, CSI and Raytheon/JPS. Are there any other vendors out there that do a decent stand alone ROIP interface unit at a reasonable price? We are OEM suppliers and are looking for possibly two tiers of unit, one that can provide regenerated CTCSS (High end tier) and a more basic unit for possible trigger base applications that we can integrate into our own systems. Does anybody have any suggestions or recommendations? Wishing you all the very best Gareth Bennett
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Triplexer noise
What is the makeup and configuration of your repeater? Brand of different units? What is on the other ports of the triplexer? What kind of an antenna and feedline? All this will help to sort out potential solutions. 73, Joe, K1ike Dr. Ron Johnson wrote: We are using a comet 324 triplexer here for 2m, 220, and 440. Working with a triband antenna. Only problem is desense on 2m through the triplexerany ideas other than throwing the thing awayThe desense is present at very low levels of signal...at about .2mv but will cycle the repeater. Makes it hard for portables getting in. The triplexer is grounded, all connections are fine. Have been chasing this for some time now...I opened it up and even touched up the solder jointsnothingstill desense... Maybe somebody out there has had the same problem and has beaten it thanks, ron
[Repeater-Builder] Re: ROIP interfaces
Here in the states, the legal term for those is 'control stations'. It's not 'semi-duplex', it's 'half-duplex'. 2 frequencies, receiver mutes during TX. But you STILL haven't answered the main part of the question: What features at what price point? BTW, you might also want to ask this on the 'LMR' and 'PrivateWirelessForum' lists where commercial radio shop types hang out. Make sure you give the answers to my questions when you do, or they'll ask the same things. You should also look at http://www.twowayradiodirectory.com/ Walter --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Gareth Bennett \(Ihug\) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Walter, Actually we are evaluating ROIP products for a major dealer network where my job is purely RF engineering for OEM compatibility. Granted, I am casting a rather wide net here on a fact finding mission to see if the group is aware of any other brands that I had not covered. As for pricing, we will be dealing at OEM level, so its a volume issue as well as features and performance. In NZ we refer to a trigger base as a semi duplex radio (On Mobile Frequencies) that is mounted at a fixed location. Often these are line controlled via EM, or in our instances ROIP. Hope this helps? Regards Gareth Bennett SNIP
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Triplexer noise
At 10:14 AM 9/26/2008, Dr. Ron Johnson wrote: We are using a comet 324 triplexer here for 2m, 220, and 440. Working with a triband antenna. Only problem is desense on 2m through the triplexerany ideas other than throwing the thing awayThe desense is present at very low levels of signal...at about .2mv but will cycle the repeater. Makes it hard for portables getting in. The triplexer is grounded, all connections are fine. Have been chasing this for some time now...I opened it up and even touched up the solder jointsnothingstill desense... Maybe somebody out there has had the same problem and has beaten it ---I have seen this phenomenon before. Assuming your 220 and UHF xmtrs are clean, check any adapters you may have in the lines especially the output of the triplexer. The cheaper adapters can create all sorts for mix products when multiple sources of RF are present. Ken -- President and CTO - Arcom Communications Makers of repeater controllers and accessories. http://www.arcomcontrollers.com/ Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave and we offer complete repeater packages! AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000 http://www.irlp.net We don't just make 'em. We use 'em!
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Triplexer noise
Hi Ron, You might be dealing with an intermod generation problem in the antenna. I'd suggest using a coaxial signal injector, a 60dB coupler or a tee with the third port center pin removed - something like that, on the common port of the triplexer, or between it and the 2M receiver. Using a signal generator, inject a signal at a level that causes the desense to occur - with all the other required conditions, like the other transmitter(s) being up. That might be most easily done with more injectors, one for each other repeater input, and signal sources that'll keep the other repeaters keyed up. Perform the desense test with the antenna connected, and with a good quality dummy load, that's rated to handle the total power you're putting out of all of the repeaters. If the desense isn't present, then something in the antenna or on the tower may be creating the problem signal/noise, and may not be solvable with your current configuration, or even on that site. If the desense problem is still present, then the suggestion about using cavities can be pursued with the knowledge that the problem isn't due to the antenna. One suggestion would be to use a notch cavity tuned for the 2-meter receive frequency, in the transmit path of the repeater transmitter(s) that are involved with the interference. The other would be to try high-pass or band-pass filters in those same transmitter paths. Those could be cavities, or parts of additional diplexers or triplexers, at least as a test, to identify the culprit. Using the notch cavity will knock down broadband noise from the culprit transmitter on the 2-meter reciever frequency, preventing it from getting to the triplexer in the first place. The band- or high-pass filters will do the same, especially if they have good rejection at 2 meters. The notch cavity solution may have less loss. Recall too that a 2-meter cavity will also produce a notch or passband response at 440 MHz, due to the resonant element being a 3/4 wavelength. The coupling loops will be wrong, but the supression achieved will usually be quite small - not what you're trying to achieve. If a 2-meter cavity is used in the 440 path, it could really screw things up on the 440 repeater. Hope that helps! 73, Bob, KD7NM From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dr. Ron Johnson Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 10:15 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Triplexer noise We are using a comet 324 triplexer here for 2m, 220, and 440. Working with a triband antenna. Only problem is desense on 2m through the triplexerany ideas other than throwing the thing awayThe desense is present at very low levels of signal...at about .2mv but will cycle the repeater. Makes it hard for portables getting in. The triplexer is grounded, all connections are fine. Have been chasing this for some time now...I opened it up and even touched up the solder jointsnothingstill desense... Maybe somebody out there has had the same problem and has beaten it thanks, ron
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Triplexer noise
Thanks for all the good suggestions. I am using hardline jumpers from the duplexer to the triplexer and then a double shielded silver plated jumper over to the 7/8 inch cable to the antenna. All connectors are factory spec, silver plated...no junk and no homemade connectors. The 2m, 220, and 440 machines are super clean on the spectrum analyzer. I am beginning to think that the cheap triplexer is the problem in and of itself. It is a 600 watt model, Comet cfx-324. By the way, the repeaters are: MSR 2000 on 2m, RCA Series 500 on 440, and Maggiore on 220. Duplexers are: Sinclair, Motorola and Wacom. To answer the other emails: The noise is not out of band. I have not placed a filter between the 2m and the triplexerwill do that... and I have tried it on other antennasdoes the same thing. I think that is all for now ron - Original Message - From: Ken Arck To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 1:59 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Triplexer noise At 10:14 AM 9/26/2008, Dr. Ron Johnson wrote: We are using a comet 324 triplexer here for 2m, 220, and 440. Working with a triband antenna. Only problem is desense on 2m through the triplexerany ideas other than throwing the thing awayThe desense is present at very low levels of signal...at about .2mv but will cycle the repeater. Makes it hard for portables getting in. The triplexer is grounded, all connections are fine. Have been chasing this for some time now...I opened it up and even touched up the solder jointsnothingstill desense... Maybe somebody out there has had the same problem and has beaten it ---I have seen this phenomenon before. Assuming your 220 and UHF xmtrs are clean, check any adapters you may have in the lines especially the output of the triplexer. The cheaper adapters can create all sorts for mix products when multiple sources of RF are present. Ken -- President and CTO - Arcom Communications Makers of repeater controllers and accessories. http://www.arcomcontrollers.com/ Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave and we offer complete repeater packages! AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000 http://www.irlp.net We don't just make 'em. We use 'em! -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.7.3/1693 - Release Date: 9/26/2008 7:35 AM
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Triplexer noise
Thanks BobI will try all those. - Original Message - From: Bob Donnell To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 2:22 PM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Triplexer noise Hi Ron, You might be dealing with an intermod generation problem in the antenna. I'd suggest using a coaxial signal injector, a 60dB coupler or a tee with the third port center pin removed - something like that, on the common port of the triplexer, or between it and the 2M receiver. Using a signal generator, inject a signal at a level that causes the desense to occur - with all the other required conditions, like the other transmitter(s) being up. That might be most easily done with more injectors, one for each other repeater input, and signal sources that'll keep the other repeaters keyed up. Perform the desense test with the antenna connected, and with a good quality dummy load, that's rated to handle the total power you're putting out of all of the repeaters. If the desense isn't present, then something in the antenna or on the tower may be creating the problem signal/noise, and may not be solvable with your current configuration, or even on that site. If the desense problem is still present, then the suggestion about using cavities can be pursued with the knowledge that the problem isn't due to the antenna. One suggestion would be to use a notch cavity tuned for the 2-meter receive frequency, in the transmit path of the repeater transmitter(s) that are involved with the interference. The other would be to try high-pass or band-pass filters in those same transmitter paths. Those could be cavities, or parts of additional diplexers or triplexers, at least as a test, to identify the culprit. Using the notch cavity will knock down broadband noise from the culprit transmitter on the 2-meter reciever frequency, preventing it from getting to the triplexer in the first place. The band- or high-pass filters will do the same, especially if they have good rejection at 2 meters. The notch cavity solution may have less loss. Recall too that a 2-meter cavity will also produce a notch or passband response at 440 MHz, due to the resonant element being a 3/4 wavelength. The coupling loops will be wrong, but the supression achieved will usually be quite small - not what you're trying to achieve. If a 2-meter cavity is used in the 440 path, it could really screw things up on the 440 repeater. Hope that helps! 73, Bob, KD7NM From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dr. Ron Johnson Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 10:15 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Triplexer noise We are using a comet 324 triplexer here for 2m, 220, and 440. Working with a triband antenna. Only problem is desense on 2m through the triplexerany ideas other than throwing the thing awayThe desense is present at very low levels of signal...at about .2mv but will cycle the repeater. Makes it hard for portables getting in. The triplexer is grounded, all connections are fine. Have been chasing this for some time now...I opened it up and even touched up the solder jointsnothingstill desense... Maybe somebody out there has had the same problem and has beaten it thanks, ron -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.7.3/1693 - Release Date: 9/26/2008 7:35 AM
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Triplexer noise
I didn't see anyone mention the coax leads on the triplexer itself. These are probably copper braid and not suitable for duplex service. I'd replace them with *silver* plated double shield coax or Superflex, with properly installed connectors. Or, replace the triplexer with one that has connectors on the body. Laryn K8TVZ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Triplexer noise
It is the model with connectors on the bodyno pigtails. rj - Original Message - From: Laryn Lohman To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 3:41 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Triplexer noise I didn't see anyone mention the coax leads on the triplexer itself. These are probably copper braid and not suitable for duplex service. I'd replace them with *silver* plated double shield coax or Superflex, with properly installed connectors. Or, replace the triplexer with one that has connectors on the body. Laryn K8TVZ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.7.3/1693 - Release Date: 9/26/2008 7:35 AM
[Repeater-Builder] MSR2000 9.6v power?
Since I have not yet succeeded in getting my hands on the MSR2000 manuals, does anyone know offhand what the current draw is on the 9.6 volt supply? Looking to build my own... Thanks in advance! George, KA3HSW / WQGJ413
[Repeater-Builder] Re: MSR2000 9.6v power?
Per the service manual the 9.4 volt regulator has the rating of 1.1 amps at 80 degrees C. The voltage range is 9.2 to 9.7 volts. The 13 volts for the receiver and exciter is 1.4 amps. George Henry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Since I have not yet succeeded in getting my hands on the MSR2000 manuals, does anyone know offhand what the current draw is on the 9.6 volt supply? Looking to build my own... Thanks in advance! George, KA3HSW / WQGJ413
[Repeater-Builder] Re: MSR2000 9.6v power?
---I actually have a Instruction Manual. But because I'm not familiar with what your looking for. Please email me direct. Thankyou . In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, George Henry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Since I have not yet succeeded in getting my hands on the MSR2000 manuals, does anyone know offhand what the current draw is on the 9.6 volt supply? Looking to build my own... Thanks in advance! George, KA3HSW / WQGJ413
[Repeater-Builder] OT Fw: [rfamplifiers] Old ham video
Well, Need I say more? . . . . . . . . Don, KD9PT - Original Message - From: EZ Rhino To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; Mac enthusiasts involved in amateur radio applications ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 3:10 PM Subject: [rfamplifiers] Old ham video Recently, John K7KF, came to our club and showed us pictures of his club's contest station which they built in the late 70's. It was an impressive station (to say the least), particuarly when you consider it was active 30+ years ago. During that time period they produced this video, which is hilarious. Enjoy! Chris KF7P http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQcF7CU2IEU DX'ing is a contact sport. Go away LID! :-) !DSPAM:1016,48dd6dee614536943019877!
[Repeater-Builder] MSF 5000 Part
Hi All I am looking for the AC power box with the lead to the power supply for the MSF 5000 case. I have a TPN1185A I would like to get up and working. Can anyone help? Bob kd7ikz
[Repeater-Builder] Re: MSR-2000 9.6v power?
I'm in the process of converting a number of MSR-2000 repeaters over to using switching power supplies (I'm paying the electric bill). I've asked one or two people who have already completed the task and they reportedly used adjustable 3-terminal regulators on well heat sinked mounts for the 9.6 vdc supply. s. George Henry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Since I have not yet succeeded in getting my hands on the MSR2000 manuals, does anyone know offhand what the current draw is on the 9.6 volt supply? Looking to build my own... Thanks in advance! George, KA3HSW / WQGJ413
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: MSR-2000 9.6v power?
Maybe you could use a fixed 9 volt three terminal regulator and lift the ground through a diode? Should give you 9.6 I think. tom [Original Message] From: skipp025 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: 9/26/2008 11:19:13 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: MSR-2000 9.6v power? I'm in the process of converting a number of MSR-2000 repeaters over to using switching power supplies (I'm paying the electric bill). I've asked one or two people who have already completed the task and they reportedly used adjustable 3-terminal regulators on well heat sinked mounts for the 9.6 vdc supply. s. George Henry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Since I have not yet succeeded in getting my hands on the MSR2000 manuals, does anyone know offhand what the current draw is on the 9.6 volt supply? Looking to build my own... Thanks in advance! George, KA3HSW / WQGJ413 Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Triplexer noise
At 9/26/2008 12:18, you wrote: Thanks for all the good suggestions. I am using hardline jumpers from the duplexer to the triplexer and then a double shielded silver plated jumper over to the 7/8 inch cable to the antenna. All connectors are factory spec, silver plated...no junk and no homemade connectors. The 2m, 220, and 440 machines are super clean on the spectrum analyzer. I am beginning to think that the cheap triplexer is the problem in and of itself. It is a 600 watt model, Comet cfx-324. I am using one of those on a 2 meter 440 repeater 220 remote base. No desense. It's possible you just have a bad one. If you know anyone locally who also has one you might try swapping them. I have a Larson 2/440 diplexer that generates intermittent desense - if I hammer on it the desense comes goes. Since it's a sealed unit I can't get inside it to fix the problem, so I marked it with my NG for duplex tape threw it in the RF junkbox. It's still good for mobile installations, just can't use it on any repeater. Bob NO6B
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Triplexer noise
At 9/26/2008 12:41, you wrote: I didn't see anyone mention the coax leads on the triplexer itself. These are probably copper braid and not suitable for duplex service. Absolutely. If this is the one with pigtails (CFX-324A, as opposed to CFX-324B), then that is almost certainly the problem. Bob NO6B
[Repeater-Builder] Re: MSR-2000 9.6v power?
If you look in the File section, there is a pdf called 12Vmicor. It is a short write-up on what I am using to make my Micor's run off 12V direct. No reason why it shouldn't work for the MSR2000 too... just need to find a convenient place to mount the LM317. Use the standard circuit found in the data sheets, plug in the values I used, or calculate your own, and you're set. Just built another one the other night. :) Lee --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, skipp025 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm in the process of converting a number of MSR-2000 repeaters over to using switching power supplies (I'm paying the electric bill). I've asked one or two people who have already completed the task and they reportedly used adjustable 3-terminal regulators on well heat sinked mounts for the 9.6 vdc supply. s. George Henry ka3hsw@ wrote: Since I have not yet succeeded in getting my hands on the MSR2000 manuals, does anyone know offhand what the current draw is on the 9.6 volt supply? Looking to build my own... Thanks in advance! George, KA3HSW / WQGJ413
