Re: [Repeater-Builder] adjacent repeaters linked
Did you use and Filters that helped isolate the tow transmitters? de KM3W and WPWN390 --- On Mon, 8/31/09, skipp025 skipp...@yahoo.com wrote: From: skipp025 skipp...@yahoo.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] adjacent repeaters linked To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, August 31, 2009, 4:17 PM I pulled off linking two adjacent 224MHz Repeaters. The repeaters are on different 30 mile distant mountain top sites. One repeater has an on-band linking radio (Alinco DR-235) set up on the adjacent frequency. As an example... 224.960 and 224.940MHz. With enough physical isolation, filtering and setup... much to my surprise it works pretty well. The owner wants to now park IRLP on it and waste everyone's time. But they are his repeaters... On toward part 2. s.
[Repeater-Builder] LMR400 saved my site
An opportunity arose for me to get in a site that would serve me well. Time was of the essence (before they changed their mind) Financially, it just happened to be a time where I didn't have the funds for 7/8 Andrews. I was able to get a LMR-400 Chinese equivalent for dirt cheap. This got the site up and running, and my presence and agreements established. Now, when I start to hear unexplained noise, I will lay out the cash for the Andrews. For all the LMR horror stories, I thought I would ad my success story. --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Cort Buffington c...@... wrote: Not to beat a dead horse or anything (I know we talk about this a lot) but once I started using RG400 (I know 142 is popular, I like the flexibility of the 400) on everything interconnect (which are all short) and hardline to the antenna, I've had no coax induced noise. Period. I'm not saying this to promote my coax choices or to say my choices are better than someone else's. but because I'm not sure I ever just said it here. This recipe has really made life better -- in the end, well worth the cost of the RG400. And a tip I've found for cost- effective RG400 and RG142: Avionics. Avionics installations often have to use the good stuff. I've found it significantly cheaper from aviation supply houses, or getting some throw-away pieces from avionics shops. 73 DE N0MJS On Aug 31, 2009, at 2:13 PM, n...@... n...@... wrote: Thanks for the correction Bob. I think it was still a little early for me when I typed that email. Corey N3FE On Mon, 31 Aug 2009 10:14:58 -0700, n...@... wrote: At 8/31/2009 09:03, you wrote: Good Morning/Afternoon Jim! Not sure about the Antenna, I know Randy's (HJC) is working great! Any type of double shielded coax/feedline anywhere in the system will cause problems. As the temp inside or outside changes it can cause the shield to rub together and make a lot of noise on the repeater. Even if it is used inside on the duplexers... This is incorrect. Silver-plated double-shielded coax is practically the standard for duplex interconnects. Non silver-plated braided coax will generate noise, whether it's double shielded or not, due to the eventual oxidation of the copper resulting poor intra-braid contact. I had mentioned to the person you are referring to that I may be able to find some 1/2 hardline but he thought it may be to weighted for what he is doing... This would be a good choice for the duplexer-antenna feed, with RG-214 jumpers between the hardline duplexer/antenna. Bob NO6B Corey N3FE On Mon, 31 Aug 2009 11:46:36 -0400, Chuck Kelsey wrote: Sounds like maybe a bad antenna. Don't use the foil/braid cable anywhere in a repeater system. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: ka2ajh To: Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 9:33 AM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Tram 1481 Dual Band UHF/VHF Antenna Hi Guys, We spent most of yesterday working on a UHF Mastr II Exec. Repeater, we are using a TRAM 1481 Dual Band Antenna on. This is the high gain 8.3 dB VHF/11.7 UHF. The system uses UHF Repeater, VHF Simplex, and IRLP. The antenna works very poorly on UHF and much better on VHF. The SWR is about 3-1 on both frequencies. The antenna is not DC Ground and there is no shorted connectors. Lack of help prevented us from taking the antenna down and apart at this time. We ran tests by putting the antenna on a portable and working a fixed base and again the VHF pinned the meter and the UHF was weak, only a couple of S units better than the portable rubber duck. Has anyone had a similar problem. I understand that the antenna is a compromise and not as good as a single band folded dipole for example, but several of us have these and they work great except for this one. I am thinking there are enough Tram 1481 out there and someone may have had the same problem. Also there has been many posts about the LMR400 used in repeater service. It is my understanding that the foil type should NEVER be used between duplexers, from the TX, RX to the Duplexers, but I am not sure about between the duplexer and the antenna. Comments please! My friend has the LM400 on the repeater mentioned above and I know it is NOT the present problem as even on simplex the antenna performance on 440 very poor. Thanks again an advance for your experiences and thoughts. 73 JIM KA2AJH Yahoo! Groups Links -- Cort Buffington H: +1-785-838-3034 M: +1-785-865-7206
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Tram 1481 Dual Band UHF/VHF Antenna
One other thing to check for if you take it apart. If Tram is like Diamond, it uses capacitors for RF coupling/matching along the length of the antenna. These are power limited. Two transmitters TXing at the same time can make them go and they also can pop easily if there is a surge like a nearby lightning strike. Losing these caps seems to effect the UHF far more than the VHF. Rotsa ruck. Dan N8DJP
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Batteries /Shelby HF (OT)
Thanks, John. I'll give him a call this evening. Doug N3DAB --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, jo...@... wrote: Sorry, That was supposed to be a private reply. He is Robin Midgett, K4IDC - 615-301-1642 Call him tomorrow evening, he goes to bed early. John Some one posted a message a short while back about taking a load of batteries to the Shelby HF this coming weekend. I can't find the original post and am hoping he reads this post. I'm looking for 6 of the WP7.2-12 (7.2amp/12v)if he has any and if he will be taking them to Shelby. Please contact me off list @ de_n3dab at tds.net Doug N3DAB Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links
[Repeater-Builder] Fw: Maxtrac data
Thanks for the infor, but I'm sorry to say that info is available from the model number as well. On this (and many radios), this is only the _band_ of operation, not the _split_, which will be a subset. For low band Maxtrac's, the splits are 29.7-36, 36-42 and 42-50 MHz. The radio in one split will not run in another except with extensive ct. value mods. I know, I have moved ye olde Sensicon and matching tube type transmitters--lots of effort--but they did work perfectly after the mod. With SMD circuit boards such, it'd be much more difficult on a Maxtrac. --John WB0EQ --- On Mon, 8/31/09, Ed Yoho w6yj_ya...@67hz.net wrote: From: Ed Yoho w6yj_ya...@67hz.net Subject: Maxtrac data To: John Sehring wb...@yahoo.com Date: Monday, August 31, 2009, 9:37 PM John, According to the FCC page, it is designed to operate from 29.7 to 50.0 MHz. To decode FCC registration numbers, goto: https://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/GenericSearch.cfm Enter the product ID into the first two fields. Ed Yoho W6YJ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] LMR400 saved my site
You might have no problems for a while. Maybe even if you are lucky, for quite a long time. At least you are aware of what will probably happen and why. Good luck and keep us posted. I've seen problems with it, first hand, time and time again. And once in a great while, it behaves. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: terry_wx3m wx3m.te...@gmail.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 8:21 AM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] LMR400 saved my site An opportunity arose for me to get in a site that would serve me well. Time was of the essence (before they changed their mind) Financially, it just happened to be a time where I didn't have the funds for 7/8 Andrews. I was able to get a LMR-400 Chinese equivalent for dirt cheap. This got the site up and running, and my presence and agreements established. Now, when I start to hear unexplained noise, I will lay out the cash for the Andrews. For all the LMR horror stories, I thought I would ad my success story. --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Cort Buffington c...@... wrote: Not to beat a dead horse or anything (I know we talk about this a lot) but once I started using RG400 (I know 142 is popular, I like the flexibility of the 400) on everything interconnect (which are all short) and hardline to the antenna, I've had no coax induced noise. Period. I'm not saying this to promote my coax choices or to say my choices are better than someone else's. but because I'm not sure I ever just said it here. This recipe has really made life better -- in the end, well worth the cost of the RG400. And a tip I've found for cost- effective RG400 and RG142: Avionics. Avionics installations often have to use the good stuff. I've found it significantly cheaper from aviation supply houses, or getting some throw-away pieces from avionics shops. 73 DE N0MJS On Aug 31, 2009, at 2:13 PM, n...@... n...@... wrote: Thanks for the correction Bob. I think it was still a little early for me when I typed that email. Corey N3FE On Mon, 31 Aug 2009 10:14:58 -0700, n...@... wrote: At 8/31/2009 09:03, you wrote: Good Morning/Afternoon Jim! Not sure about the Antenna, I know Randy's (HJC) is working great! Any type of double shielded coax/feedline anywhere in the system will cause problems. As the temp inside or outside changes it can cause the shield to rub together and make a lot of noise on the repeater. Even if it is used inside on the duplexers... This is incorrect. Silver-plated double-shielded coax is practically the standard for duplex interconnects. Non silver-plated braided coax will generate noise, whether it's double shielded or not, due to the eventual oxidation of the copper resulting poor intra-braid contact. I had mentioned to the person you are referring to that I may be able to find some 1/2 hardline but he thought it may be to weighted for what he is doing... This would be a good choice for the duplexer-antenna feed, with RG-214 jumpers between the hardline duplexer/antenna. Bob NO6B Corey N3FE On Mon, 31 Aug 2009 11:46:36 -0400, Chuck Kelsey wrote: Sounds like maybe a bad antenna. Don't use the foil/braid cable anywhere in a repeater system. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: ka2ajh To: Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 9:33 AM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Tram 1481 Dual Band UHF/VHF Antenna Hi Guys, We spent most of yesterday working on a UHF Mastr II Exec. Repeater, we are using a TRAM 1481 Dual Band Antenna on. This is the high gain 8.3 dB VHF/11.7 UHF. The system uses UHF Repeater, VHF Simplex, and IRLP. The antenna works very poorly on UHF and much better on VHF. The SWR is about 3-1 on both frequencies. The antenna is not DC Ground and there is no shorted connectors. Lack of help prevented us from taking the antenna down and apart at this time. We ran tests by putting the antenna on a portable and working a fixed base and again the VHF pinned the meter and the UHF was weak, only a couple of S units better than the portable rubber duck. Has anyone had a similar problem. I understand that the antenna is a compromise and not as good as a single band folded dipole for example, but several of us have these and they work great except for this one. I am thinking there are enough Tram 1481 out there and someone may have had the same problem. Also there has been many posts about the LMR400 used in repeater service. It is my understanding that the foil type should NEVER be used between duplexers, from the TX, RX to the Duplexers, but I am not sure about between the duplexer and the antenna. Comments please! My friend has the
Fw: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Fw: Sources of Maxtrac's
Thanks anyway, Rich, I always appreciate helping energy. --- On Mon, 8/31/09, Rich Osman li...@ozindfw.net wrote: From: Rich Osman li...@ozindfw.net Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Fw: Sources of Maxtrac's To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, August 31, 2009, 9:40 PM The manual I referred to is the Motorola manual. The FCC ids are usually given up front near where the model table data is. Some of the talkies only have one FCC ID for all subranges in a band, but usually not. First step is Google the ID and see what you see. Looks like 42-50 split. Second step is go to the FCC Site: https://fjallfoss. fcc.gov/oetcf/ eas/reports/ GenericSearch. cfm Which in turn leads us to: https://fjallfoss. fcc.gov/oetcf/ eas/reports/ GenericSearchRes ult.cfm?RequestT imeout=500 Where we learn that this radio covers 29.7 - 50 Mhz and that I was sadly mistaken. Apparently they are now doing variants on a single authorization. Sigh. Spectra and earlier this trick works. Oz [wiping egg off face and preparing the crow] John Sehring wrote: How about FCC ID ABZ89FT1620. Can you make sense of that? Thanks. --John --- On Mon, 8/31/09, John Sehring wb...@yahoo. com mailto:wb0eq% 40yahoo.com wrote: From: John Sehring wb...@yahoo. com mailto:wb0eq% 40yahoo.com Subject: Sources of Maxtrac's To: Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com mailto:Repeater- Builder%40yahoog roups.com Date: Monday, August 31, 2009, 8:50 PM Thanks for the reply, Rich. What manual are you referring to, Motorola or an FCC thing? I do have pretty much complete Maxtrac paperwork, thanks to the guys at Repeater Builder. --- On Mon, 8/31/09, Rich Osman li...@ozindfw. net mailto:lists% 40ozindfw. net wrote: From: Rich Osman li...@ozindfw. net mailto:lists% 40ozindfw. net Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Sources of Maxtrac's To: Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com mailto:Repeater- Builder%40yahoog roups.com Date: Monday, August 31, 2009, 8:07 AM The FCC ID is band dependent. The manual has a table on ranges and that includes the FCC IDs John Sehring wrote: I haven't had much luck locating low band, low split Maxtrac's for use on 10m. These radios' model numbers don't tell what split it is; you have to crack open the radio, remove a shield read a number on a board. So, the ebay crowd won't/can't do this; if the seller doesn't know what freq they were on, well then it's a crap shoot. Any suggestions? Thanx. ,_._,___ -- mailto:o...@ozindfw.net Oz POB 93167 Southlake, TX 76092 (Near DFW Airport)
Re: [Repeater-Builder] adjacent repeaters linked
Skipp, I have two VHF repeaters linked in-band. 146.92 with a remote base radio on the other repeater frequency at 145.45. I use GE Mastr II radios in both repeaters, and used a modified GE Mastr II mobile radio for the link. I removed the final amp from the link radio and use the 250 mW exciter through a low pass filter/antenna relay to a three element beam. The beam is about 15 feet below the DB-224 repeater antenna and causes no de-sense to the repeater. I am sure the repeater de-senses the link radio, but the result is not audible. The two repeaters are about 10 miles apart and are line-of-sight. The 145.45 repeater uses a directional antenna to cover a major highway in a canyon that is masked from the 146.92 repeater in several places. 73 - Jim W5ZIT --- On Mon, 8/31/09, skipp025 skipp...@yahoo.com wrote: From: skipp025 skipp...@yahoo.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] adjacent repeaters linked To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, August 31, 2009, 3:17 PM I pulled off linking two adjacent 224MHz Repeaters. The repeaters are on different 30 mile distant mountain top sites. One repeater has an on-band linking radio (Alinco DR-235) set up on the adjacent frequency. As an example... 224.960 and 224.940MHz. With enough physical isolation, filtering and setup... much to my surprise it works pretty well. The owner wants to now park IRLP on it and waste everyone's time. But they are his repeaters... On toward part 2. s.
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: UHF Connectors for 1/2 Andrew Superflex
I drill a hole perpendicular to the axis of the cable through the RG59 reducer (in the smooth area above the threads) so you can get solder to flow into it, maybe that's what Chuck was referring to? For 3/8 Superflex, the OD of the cable shield is just a tad too big to screw into a PL-259 easily, so I take a drill bit and shave off the tips of the threads inside the PL-259 so the cable goes in easy, then solder on as you normally would. I never came up with a solution I liked for putting 1/2 Superflex connectors on a regular PL-259, so when I'm forced to use PL-259's I usually go with 1/4 or 3/8 'flex or buy a real Andrew connector. --- Jeff WN3A -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Kelsey Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 5:27 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: UHF Connectors for 1/2 Andrew Superflex I wasn't sure, but that rings a bell. I think I had to drill out the ones for RG58 because that's all I had on hand. You know how that goes ;-) Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: larynl2 lar...@hotmail.com mailto:larynl%40hotmail.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 5:22 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: UHF Connectors for 1/2 Andrew Superflex Chuck, if you use a reducer made for RG59 (and RG8X?) there's no need to drill. Perfect fit. Laryn K8TVZ --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com , Chuck Kelsey wb2...@... wrote: I've used 1/4 superflex with PL259 reducer. Works fine. Seems like I had to drill the reducer, but that's easy anyway. Chuck WB2EDV No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.65/2323 - Release Date: 09/01/09 06:52:00
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: UHF Connectors for 1/2 Andrew Superflex
I solder the reducer onto the heliax shield, then screw it in to the PL259 and finish the soldering - some through the PL259 holes that I have already enlarged, and the center pin last. Chuck - Original Message - From: Jeff DePolo j...@broadsci.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 12:14 PM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: UHF Connectors for 1/2 Andrew Superflex I drill a hole perpendicular to the axis of the cable through the RG59 reducer (in the smooth area above the threads) so you can get solder to flow into it, maybe that's what Chuck was referring to? For 3/8 Superflex, the OD of the cable shield is just a tad too big to screw into a PL-259 easily, so I take a drill bit and shave off the tips of the threads inside the PL-259 so the cable goes in easy, then solder on as you normally would. I never came up with a solution I liked for putting 1/2 Superflex connectors on a regular PL-259, so when I'm forced to use PL-259's I usually go with 1/4 or 3/8 'flex or buy a real Andrew connector. --- Jeff WN3A -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Kelsey Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 5:27 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: UHF Connectors for 1/2 Andrew Superflex I wasn't sure, but that rings a bell. I think I had to drill out the ones for RG58 because that's all I had on hand. You know how that goes ;-) Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: larynl2 lar...@hotmail.com mailto:larynl%40hotmail.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 5:22 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: UHF Connectors for 1/2 Andrew Superflex Chuck, if you use a reducer made for RG59 (and RG8X?) there's no need to drill. Perfect fit. Laryn K8TVZ --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com , Chuck Kelsey wb2...@... wrote: I've used 1/4 superflex with PL259 reducer. Works fine. Seems like I had to drill the reducer, but that's easy anyway. Chuck WB2EDV No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.65/2323 - Release Date: 09/01/09 06:52:00 Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: UHF Connectors for 1/2 Andrew Superflex
Is it ok to use Silver PL259's and nickel reducers (UG176)? Thanks to everyone on their input. Trying to connect a MSR2000 and T4084 duplexer set (both UHF connectors). Tony Chuck Kelsey wrote: I solder the reducer onto the heliax shield, then screw it in to the PL259 and finish the soldering - some through the PL259 holes that I have already enlarged, and the center pin last. Chuck - Original Message - From: Jeff DePolo j...@broadsci.com mailto:jd0%40broadsci.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 12:14 PM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: UHF Connectors for 1/2 Andrew Superflex I drill a hole perpendicular to the axis of the cable through the RG59 reducer (in the smooth area above the threads) so you can get solder to flow into it, maybe that's what Chuck was referring to? For 3/8 Superflex, the OD of the cable shield is just a tad too big to screw into a PL-259 easily, so I take a drill bit and shave off the tips of the threads inside the PL-259 so the cable goes in easy, then solder on as you normally would. I never came up with a solution I liked for putting 1/2 Superflex connectors on a regular PL-259, so when I'm forced to use PL-259's I usually go with 1/4 or 3/8 'flex or buy a real Andrew connector. --- Jeff WN3A -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Kelsey Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 5:27 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: UHF Connectors for 1/2 Andrew Superflex I wasn't sure, but that rings a bell. I think I had to drill out the ones for RG58 because that's all I had on hand. You know how that goes ;-) Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: larynl2 lar...@hotmail.com mailto:larynl%40hotmail.com mailto:larynl%40hotmail.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 5:22 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: UHF Connectors for 1/2 Andrew Superflex Chuck, if you use a reducer made for RG59 (and RG8X?) there's no need to drill. Perfect fit. Laryn K8TVZ --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com , Chuck Kelsey wb2...@... wrote: I've used 1/4 superflex with PL259 reducer. Works fine. Seems like I had to drill the reducer, but that's easy anyway. Chuck WB2EDV No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.65/2323 - Release Date: 09/01/09 06:52:00 Yahoo! Groups Links
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: UHF Connectors for 1/2 Andrew Superflex
I should have elaborated when I recommended the 3/8. I use a heat gun to make the jacket a little more pliable. Works great. Chris Kb0wlf -snip- For 3/8 Superflex, the OD of the cable shield is just a tad too big to screw into a PL-259 easily, so I take a drill bit and shave off the tips of the threads inside the PL-259 so the cable goes in easy, then solder on as you normally would. I never came up with a solution I liked for putting 1/2 Superflex connectors on a regular PL-259, so when I'm forced to use PL-259's I usually go with 1/4 or 3/8 'flex or buy a real Andrew connector. --- Jeff WN3A -snip-
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: UHF Connectors for 1/2 Andrew Superflex
It's a lot easier to get solder to flow on silver-plated connectors and reducers...you don't have to use as much heat so it causes less damage/deformation to the dielectric and jacket. -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tony KT9AC Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 12:33 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: UHF Connectors for 1/2 Andrew Superflex Is it ok to use Silver PL259's and nickel reducers (UG176)? Thanks to everyone on their input. Trying to connect a MSR2000 and T4084 duplexer set (both UHF connectors). Tony Chuck Kelsey wrote: I solder the reducer onto the heliax shield, then screw it in to the PL259 and finish the soldering - some through the PL259 holes that I have already enlarged, and the center pin last. Chuck - Original Message - From: Jeff DePolo j...@broadsci.com mailto:jd0%40broadsci.com mailto:jd0%40broadsci.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 12:14 PM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: UHF Connectors for 1/2 Andrew Superflex I drill a hole perpendicular to the axis of the cable through the RG59 reducer (in the smooth area above the threads) so you can get solder to flow into it, maybe that's what Chuck was referring to? For 3/8 Superflex, the OD of the cable shield is just a tad too big to screw into a PL-259 easily, so I take a drill bit and shave off the tips of the threads inside the PL-259 so the cable goes in easy, then solder on as you normally would. I never came up with a solution I liked for putting 1/2 Superflex connectors on a regular PL-259, so when I'm forced to use PL-259's I usually go with 1/4 or 3/8 'flex or buy a real Andrew connector. --- Jeff WN3A -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Kelsey Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 5:27 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: UHF Connectors for 1/2 Andrew Superflex I wasn't sure, but that rings a bell. I think I had to drill out the ones for RG58 because that's all I had on hand. You know how that goes ;-) Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: larynl2 lar...@hotmail.com mailto:larynl%40hotmail.com mailto:larynl%40hotmail.com mailto:larynl%40hotmail.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 5:22 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: UHF Connectors for 1/2 Andrew Superflex Chuck, if you use a reducer made for RG59 (and RG8X?) there's no need to drill. Perfect fit. Laryn K8TVZ --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com , Chuck Kelsey wb2...@... wrote: I've used 1/4 superflex with PL259 reducer. Works fine. Seems like I had to drill the reducer, but that's easy anyway. Chuck WB2EDV No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.65/2323 - Release Date: 09/01/09 06:52:00 Yahoo! Groups Links No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.65/2323 - Release Date: 09/01/09 06:52:00
[Repeater-Builder] Re: adjacent repeaters linked
Very nice Jim, Small problems are starting to rear their ugly head because the link radio puts out more power than I need and I have a red-hot receiver distribution system. I'm sure the whole package would dance and sing out of control if I didn't have so many protection schemes in place. I now need to drop the link radio power to less than a watt to keep it from hosing the separate repeaters rx antenna system. I was feeling quite smug because the two repeaters were only 20 KHz from each other... but the no free lunch rule is starting to apply and I'll have to go back and throttle the link radio down even more. Getting it to work well is the hardest part... The GE Master II's are great units for the application. cheers, s. Jim Brown w5...@... wrote: Skipp, I have two VHF repeaters linked in-band. 146.92 with a remote base radio on the other repeater frequency at 145.45. I use GE Mastr II radios in both repeaters, and used a modified GE Mastr II mobile radio for the link. I removed the final amp from the link radio and use the 250 mW exciter through a low pass filter/antenna relay to a three element beam. The beam is about 15 feet below the DB-224 repeater antenna and causes no de-sense to the repeater. I am sure the repeater de-senses the link radio, but the result is not audible. The two repeaters are about 10 miles apart and are line-of-sight. The 145.45 repeater uses a directional antenna to cover a major highway in a canyon that is masked from the 146.92 repeater in several places. 73 - Jim W5ZIT
[Repeater-Builder] Re: adjacent repeaters linked
I'm not sure exactly what the question should be... but the answer is... that I'll have to add even more filtering. The repeater lives on an Antenna Combiner System (yes, we have one for the 222 MHz range) and the link radio on a yagi some distance away (vertical over 100' separation). The Rx Antenna System is red hot so I'm cranking in a large number of notch cavities into the rx combiner side on the link tx frequency. Cavities and minimal power to make it play... s. Pointman shield1...@... wrote: Did you use and Filters that helped isolate the tow transmitters? de KM3W and WPWN390 --- On Mon, 8/31/09, skipp025 skipp...@... wrote: From: skipp025 skipp...@... Subject: [Repeater-Builder] adjacent repeaters linked To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, August 31, 2009, 4:17 PM I pulled off linking two adjacent 224MHz Repeaters. The repeaters are on different 30 mile distant mountain top sites. One repeater has an on-band linking radio (Alinco DR-235) set up on the adjacent frequency. As an example... 224.960 and 224.940MHz. With enough physical isolation, filtering and setup... much to my surprise it works pretty well. The owner wants to now park IRLP on it and waste everyone's time. But they are his repeaters... On toward part 2. s.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: UHF Connectors for 1/2 Andrew Superflex
I probably would if I had nothing else. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Tony KT9AC kt...@ameritech.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 12:33 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: UHF Connectors for 1/2 Andrew Superflex Is it ok to use Silver PL259's and nickel reducers (UG176)? Thanks to everyone on their input. Trying to connect a MSR2000 and T4084 duplexer set (both UHF connectors). Tony Chuck Kelsey wrote: I solder the reducer onto the heliax shield, then screw it in to the PL259 and finish the soldering - some through the PL259 holes that I have already enlarged, and the center pin last. Chuck - Original Message - From: Jeff DePolo j...@broadsci.com mailto:jd0%40broadsci.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 12:14 PM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: UHF Connectors for 1/2 Andrew Superflex I drill a hole perpendicular to the axis of the cable through the RG59 reducer (in the smooth area above the threads) so you can get solder to flow into it, maybe that's what Chuck was referring to? For 3/8 Superflex, the OD of the cable shield is just a tad too big to screw into a PL-259 easily, so I take a drill bit and shave off the tips of the threads inside the PL-259 so the cable goes in easy, then solder on as you normally would. I never came up with a solution I liked for putting 1/2 Superflex connectors on a regular PL-259, so when I'm forced to use PL-259's I usually go with 1/4 or 3/8 'flex or buy a real Andrew connector. --- Jeff WN3A -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Kelsey Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 5:27 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: UHF Connectors for 1/2 Andrew Superflex I wasn't sure, but that rings a bell. I think I had to drill out the ones for RG58 because that's all I had on hand. You know how that goes ;-) Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: larynl2 lar...@hotmail.com mailto:larynl%40hotmail.com mailto:larynl%40hotmail.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 5:22 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: UHF Connectors for 1/2 Andrew Superflex Chuck, if you use a reducer made for RG59 (and RG8X?) there's no need to drill. Perfect fit. Laryn K8TVZ --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com , Chuck Kelsey wb2...@... wrote: I've used 1/4 superflex with PL259 reducer. Works fine. Seems like I had to drill the reducer, but that's easy anyway. Chuck WB2EDV No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.65/2323 - Release Date: 09/01/09 06:52:00 Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: UHF Connectors for 1/2 Andrew Superflex
I agree, but I've also found that solder will flow better if you take a small file and shine everything up before soldering. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Jeff DePolo j...@broadsci.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 12:48 PM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: UHF Connectors for 1/2 Andrew Superflex It's a lot easier to get solder to flow on silver-plated connectors and reducers...you don't have to use as much heat so it causes less damage/deformation to the dielectric and jacket. -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tony KT9AC Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 12:33 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: UHF Connectors for 1/2 Andrew Superflex Is it ok to use Silver PL259's and nickel reducers (UG176)? Thanks to everyone on their input. Trying to connect a MSR2000 and T4084 duplexer set (both UHF connectors). Tony Chuck Kelsey wrote: I solder the reducer onto the heliax shield, then screw it in to the PL259 and finish the soldering - some through the PL259 holes that I have already enlarged, and the center pin last. Chuck - Original Message - From: Jeff DePolo j...@broadsci.com mailto:jd0%40broadsci.com mailto:jd0%40broadsci.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 12:14 PM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: UHF Connectors for 1/2 Andrew Superflex I drill a hole perpendicular to the axis of the cable through the RG59 reducer (in the smooth area above the threads) so you can get solder to flow into it, maybe that's what Chuck was referring to? For 3/8 Superflex, the OD of the cable shield is just a tad too big to screw into a PL-259 easily, so I take a drill bit and shave off the tips of the threads inside the PL-259 so the cable goes in easy, then solder on as you normally would. I never came up with a solution I liked for putting 1/2 Superflex connectors on a regular PL-259, so when I'm forced to use PL-259's I usually go with 1/4 or 3/8 'flex or buy a real Andrew connector. --- Jeff WN3A -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Kelsey Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 5:27 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: UHF Connectors for 1/2 Andrew Superflex I wasn't sure, but that rings a bell. I think I had to drill out the ones for RG58 because that's all I had on hand. You know how that goes ;-) Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: larynl2 lar...@hotmail.com mailto:larynl%40hotmail.com mailto:larynl%40hotmail.com mailto:larynl%40hotmail.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 5:22 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: UHF Connectors for 1/2 Andrew Superflex Chuck, if you use a reducer made for RG59 (and RG8X?) there's no need to drill. Perfect fit. Laryn K8TVZ --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com , Chuck Kelsey wb2...@... wrote: I've used 1/4 superflex with PL259 reducer. Works fine. Seems like I had to drill the reducer, but that's easy anyway. Chuck WB2EDV No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.65/2323 - Release Date: 09/01/09 06:52:00 Yahoo! Groups Links No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.65/2323 - Release Date: 09/01/09 06:52:00 Yahoo! Groups Links
[Repeater-Builder] Antenna SWR = Desense?
Hi folks, Just a bit of an update... got the 6 cavity Telewave duplexer tweaked up - looks like it pretty much hit the specs in the data sheet. With a dummy load at the 'antenna' port, I used an iso-tee to inject a signal at both the receiver input, and between the antenna port the dummy load. With a weak signal, both places showed me that there was no desense. Very weak signal would hold in the repeater. However, putting the system on the antenna (a 150-160 mhz DB-224 100' horizontally 10' vertically separated) through a metal building fed with 7/8 heliax, there seems to be no end to the desense! The wattmeter shows 30 watts forward 3 watts reflected at the antenna port, if my math serves, it's less than 2:1. Can the less than 1:1 match be the culprit? Thanks, Tim W5FN
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Antenna SWR = Desense?
Tim, did you happen to try the dummy at the end of the feed line instead of antenna? Are you sure the connector from the 7/8 to the duplexer (or any connector / adapter near that connection) is good? Did you put all the covers back on during the antenna test? You're getting closer! Don W5DK -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of tahrens301 Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 2:03 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Antenna SWR = Desense? Hi folks, Just a bit of an update... got the 6 cavity Telewave duplexer tweaked up - looks like it pretty much hit the specs in the data sheet. With a dummy load at the 'antenna' port, I used an iso-tee to inject a signal at both the receiver input, and between the antenna port the dummy load. With a weak signal, both places showed me that there was no desense. Very weak signal would hold in the repeater. However, putting the system on the antenna (a 150-160 mhz DB-224 100' horizontally 10' vertically separated) through a metal building fed with 7/8 heliax, there seems to be no end to the desense! The wattmeter shows 30 watts forward 3 watts reflected at the antenna port, if my math serves, it's less than 2:1. Can the less than 1:1 match be the culprit? Thanks, Tim W5FN Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Antenna SWR = Desense?
You state DB-224 100' horizontally 10' vertically separated. I don't understand what you mean by that. Joe tahrens301 wrote: However, putting the system on the antenna (a 150-160 mhz DB-224 100' horizontally 10' vertically separated) through a metal building fed with 7/8 heliax, there seems to be no end to the desense!
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Antenna SWR = Desense?
Hi Joe, The repeater/duplexer is in my workshop (a large metal building). The heliax goes out the window to a smaller portable building about 100' away (horizontally spaced). The antenna is on that building about 10' off the ground. Don - took the dummyload analyzer to the end of the hard line, fed it into the iso-tee there. No desense is noted. Something's not right when the antenna gets hooked up. Maybe I should put up the ringo for a test. at least it's probably a bit better of a match. --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Joe k1ike_m...@... wrote: You state DB-224 100' horizontally 10' vertically separated. I don't understand what you mean by that. Joe tahrens301 wrote: However, putting the system on the antenna (a 150-160 mhz DB-224 100' horizontally 10' vertically separated) through a metal building fed with 7/8 heliax, there seems to be no end to the desense!
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Antenna SWR = Desense?
Seems to me the three most-likely causes of your problem are: 1. Antenna itself is bad/noisy. Substituting antennas may help rule this out. 2. Not enough isolation between radiating antenna and equipment. The 100' of horizontal separation may not be enough to keep the strong RF out of your equipment, effectively bypassing/negating the isolation your finely-tuned duplexer is attempting to provide. 3. Mis-match due to out-of-band antenna is causing other problems, possibly even transmitter going spurious. While I generally don't recommend using isolators or Z-matchers as band-aids to cure antenna ills, using one to help rule this out as possible cause might be helpful as a short-term experiment. 4. You mention metal building, which conjures many bad memories of rooftop installations where all kinds of noise problems related to HVAC units, duct work, corrugated metal panels, metal screens/grills, ventilation stacks, cooling towers, etc. resulted in countless hours of time spent trying to reduce noise and passive intermod mixes. You're on your own on that one... --- Jeff WN3A -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of tahrens301 Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 4:03 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Antenna SWR = Desense? Hi Joe, The repeater/duplexer is in my workshop (a large metal building). The heliax goes out the window to a smaller portable building about 100' away (horizontally spaced). The antenna is on that building about 10' off the ground. Don - took the dummyload analyzer to the end of the hard line, fed it into the iso-tee there. No desense is noted. Something's not right when the antenna gets hooked up. Maybe I should put up the ringo for a test. at least it's probably a bit better of a match. --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com , Joe k1ike_m...@... wrote: You state DB-224 100' horizontally 10' vertically separated. I don't understand what you mean by that. Joe tahrens301 wrote: However, putting the system on the antenna (a 150-160 mhz DB-224 100' horizontally 10' vertically separated) through a metal building fed with 7/8 heliax, there seems to be no end to the desense! No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.65/2323 - Release Date: 09/01/09 06:52:00
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Antenna SWR = Desense?
While you are out at the antenna, stick the wattmeter in line and check the foward/reflected there with the antenna and the dummy load. My guess is that you will quickly find your problem. I would check the connection to the DB-224 coax as well as the connections to each element. Also check the center connection. 30 foward and 3 reflected is a whole lot higher than I would accept; at least 10% of your RF out is being reflected. Milt N3LTQ - Original Message - From: tahrens301 tahr...@swtexas.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 4:02 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Antenna SWR = Desense? Hi Joe, The repeater/duplexer is in my workshop (a large metal building). The heliax goes out the window to a smaller portable building about 100' away (horizontally spaced). The antenna is on that building about 10' off the ground. Don - took the dummyload analyzer to the end of the hard line, fed it into the iso-tee there. No desense is noted. Something's not right when the antenna gets hooked up. Maybe I should put up the ringo for a test. at least it's probably a bit better of a match. --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Joe k1ike_m...@... wrote: You state DB-224 100' horizontally 10' vertically separated. I don't understand what you mean by that. Joe tahrens301 wrote: However, putting the system on the antenna (a 150-160 mhz DB-224 100' horizontally 10' vertically separated) through a metal building fed with 7/8 heliax, there seems to be no end to the desense! Yahoo! Groups Links No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.73/2338 - Release Date: 08/31/09 17:52:00
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Antenna SWR = Desense?
I swear to God, #4 will make you go completely insane. Best fixes... 1. Lower output power. The distance-squared rule is your friend if you're mixing somewhere EXTERNAL to your system. 2. Move off the site. LOL! I loved Jeff's very politically correct... You're on your own. on that one. Only if you've hunted and failed and hunted again and failed and hunted and failed, do you really get what he's saying there. :-) -- Nate Duehr n...@natetech.com On Tue, 01 Sep 2009 16:14 -0400, Jeff DePolo j...@broadsci.com wrote: Seems to me the three most-likely causes of your problem are: 1. Antenna itself is bad/noisy. Substituting antennas may help rule this out. 2. Not enough isolation between radiating antenna and equipment. The 100' of horizontal separation may not be enough to keep the strong RF out of your equipment, effectively bypassing/negating the isolation your finely-tuned duplexer is attempting to provide. 3. Mis-match due to out-of-band antenna is causing other problems, possibly even transmitter going spurious. While I generally don't recommend using isolators or Z-matchers as band-aids to cure antenna ills, using one to help rule this out as possible cause might be helpful as a short-term experiment. 4. You mention metal building, which conjures many bad memories of rooftop installations where all kinds of noise problems related to HVAC units, duct work, corrugated metal panels, metal screens/grills, ventilation stacks, cooling towers, etc. resulted in countless hours of time spent trying to reduce noise and passive intermod mixes. You're on your own on that one... --- Jeff WN3A -Original Message- From: [1]repeater-buil...@yahoogroups. com [mailto:[2]repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of tahrens301 Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 4:03 PM To: [3]repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Antenna SWR = Desense? Hi Joe, The repeater/duplexer is in my workshop (a large metal building). The heliax goes out the window to a smaller portable building about 100' away (horizontally spaced). The antenna is on that building about 10' off the ground. Don - took the dummyload analyzer to the end of the hard line, fed it into the iso-tee there. No desense is noted. Something's not right when the antenna gets hooked up. Maybe I should put up the ringo for a test. at least it's probably a bit better of a match. --- In [4]repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com , Joe k1ike_m...@... wrote: You state DB-224 100' horizontally 10' vertically separated. I don't understand what you mean by that. Joe tahrens301 wrote: However, putting the system on the antenna (a 150-160 mhz DB-224 100' horizontally 10' vertically separated) through a metal building fed with 7/8 heliax, there seems to be no end to the desense! No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.65/2323 - Release Date: 09/01/09 06:52:00 References 1. mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com 2. mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com 3. mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com 4. mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com 5. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/message/93826;_ylc=X3oDMTM1czZha25kBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwNDE2OARncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjMxMDgEbXNnSWQDOTM4MzAEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMjUxODM2MDc5BHRwY0lkAzkzODI2 6. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJwMm44YWZhBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwNDE2OARncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjMxMDgEbXNnSWQDOTM4MzAEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMjUxODM2MDc5?act=replymessageNum=93830 7. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJkam90ZThzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwNDE2OARncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjMxMDgEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDbnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMjUxODM2MDc5 8. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/messages;_ylc=X3oDMTJkZnA4dms4BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwNDE2OARncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjMxMDgEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDbXNncwRzdGltZQMxMjUxODM2MDc5 9. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/files;_ylc=X3oDMTJlbmtxam11BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwNDE2OARncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjMxMDgEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDZmlsZXMEc3RpbWUDMTI1MTgzNjA3OQ-- 10. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/photos;_ylc=X3oDMTJkcm8zMGdjBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwNDE2OARncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjMxMDgEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcGhvdARzdGltZQMxMjUxODM2MDc5 11. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/links;_ylc=X3oDMTJlNDFsdGE4BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwNDE2OARncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjMxMDgEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDbGlua3MEc3RpbWUDMTI1MTgzNjA3OQ-- 12. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJkZnV2NDRsBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwNDE2OARncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjMxMDgEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDbWJycwRzdGltZQMxMjUxODM2MDc5 13. http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJjNGJqdjI4BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEwNDE2OARncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjMxMDgEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDZ2ZwBHN0aW1lAzEyNTE4MzYwNzk- 14.
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Antenna SWR = Desense?
Hi Jeff, I'll try a different antenna... perhaps that's it. Horizontal isolation possibly not enough, but 'only' running 30 watts out, the repeater is a quantar, all leads are RG214, so didn't figure that would be it... I've seen a lot of installations with antennas pretty close to the system. Might try a matching network to tune out swr, just to see if that's it. Metal building - no HVAC or stacks, etc. Just an empty (mostly) concrete slab with a metal building on it. Milt - Seems I did put the meter at the antenna pretty much saw the same thing. It's about what I expected, as the 224 is not the ham version - it's the 150-160 meg version. thanks, Tim W5FN --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Milt men...@... wrote: While you are out at the antenna, stick the wattmeter in line and check the foward/reflected there with the antenna and the dummy load. My guess is that you will quickly find your problem. I would check the connection to the DB-224 coax as well as the connections to each element. Also check the center connection. 30 foward and 3 reflected is a whole lot higher than I would accept; at least 10% of your RF out is being reflected. Milt N3LTQ - Original Message - From: tahrens301 tahr...@... To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 4:02 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Antenna SWR = Desense? Hi Joe, The repeater/duplexer is in my workshop (a large metal building). The heliax goes out the window to a smaller portable building about 100' away (horizontally spaced). The antenna is on that building about 10' off the ground. Don - took the dummyload analyzer to the end of the hard line, fed it into the iso-tee there. No desense is noted. Something's not right when the antenna gets hooked up. Maybe I should put up the ringo for a test. at least it's probably a bit better of a match. --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Joe k1ike_mail@ wrote: You state DB-224 100' horizontally 10' vertically separated. I don't understand what you mean by that. Joe tahrens301 wrote: However, putting the system on the antenna (a 150-160 mhz DB-224 100' horizontally 10' vertically separated) through a metal building fed with 7/8 heliax, there seems to be no end to the desense! Yahoo! Groups Links No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.73/2338 - Release Date: 08/31/09 17:52:00
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Antenna SWR = Desense?
Numbers 1 or 4 are the more likely. He has a Quantar which is designed to live in high RF environments at antenna sites making #2 unlikely. Also, with respect to #3, the Quantar PA has a built in circulator as standard equipment. --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Jeff DePolo j...@... wrote: Seems to me the three most-likely causes of your problem are: 1. Antenna itself is bad/noisy. Substituting antennas may help rule this out. 2. Not enough isolation between radiating antenna and equipment. The 100' of horizontal separation may not be enough to keep the strong RF out of your equipment, effectively bypassing/negating the isolation your finely-tuned duplexer is attempting to provide. 3. Mis-match due to out-of-band antenna is causing other problems, possibly even transmitter going spurious. While I generally don't recommend using isolators or Z-matchers as band-aids to cure antenna ills, using one to help rule this out as possible cause might be helpful as a short-term experiment. 4. You mention metal building, which conjures many bad memories of rooftop installations where all kinds of noise problems related to HVAC units, duct work, corrugated metal panels, metal screens/grills, ventilation stacks, cooling towers, etc. resulted in countless hours of time spent trying to reduce noise and passive intermod mixes. You're on your own on that one...
[Repeater-Builder]
Does anyone know or use a program where I can scan large schematics a little at a time and then connect them back in a file like a pdf file? I cant afford a large bed scanner but I have several 11x17s I would like to scan on my 8 ½ x 11 scanner. Randy
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Antenna SWR = Desense?
--- On Tue, 9/1/09, tahrens301 tahr...@swtexas.net wrote: From: tahrens301 tahr...@swtexas.net Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Antenna SWR = Desense? To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 5:29 PM Hi Jeff, I'll try a different antenna... perhaps that's it. Horizontal isolation possibly not enough, but 'only' running 30 watts out, the repeater is a quantar, all leads are RG214, so didn't figure that would be it... I've seen a lot of installations with antennas pretty close to the system. Is that 214 double shielded ? I have seen some marked 214 that was not double shielded. Also you almost have a 2:1 swr. Seems way too high to me.
[Repeater-Builder] Cable length
Hi guys Just updating on the 6mc450s style notch duplexer problem.We found one of the 6 tuning insulators inside were burnt through the insulator so we got the local engineering group to lave another insulator out of nylon rod and have put it back together and tested it on the service monitor and it comes up perfect on it and tested it with a maxon pm150 and we are now getting 40 watt output of the duplexer instead of 4-10watt so I think we have fixed it .We will know when we install it back into the repeater. Thank You, Ian Wells, Kerinvale Comaudio, 361 Camboon Road.Biloela.4715 Phone 0749922574 or 0409159932 www.kerinvalecomaudio.com.au
[Repeater-Builder] Northern California Ham Swap this Weekend Sat the 5th
Northern California Ham Swap this Weekend Sat the 5th If you're within decent driving range... the annual W6OMF Western States, Weak Signal Society - Northern California Ham Swap this Weekend - Sat the 5th at his (Larry's) rancho in Vacaville, California... is the coolest event to attend. RV Parking, free seller spaces, hot brats/brauts, soda, raffles, door prizes, regular verbal abuse and a good time can be had by most. 7372 Paddon Road. Vacaville, CA 95688 About half the distant between San Francisco and Sacramento on Interstate I-80 in Vacaville. Mapquest the above address is the best way to find the place. In Vacaville (where the men are men and the sheep are nervous) travel North from I-80 on I-505 up two exits to Midway Road. Exit Midway Road, travel west 1/2 and look for the Antenna farm on the right after the Country Store (and Bar). Probably starts around 8am, sometimes earlier... normal attendance is a couple hundred people and lots of boat anchors %$*%# ... I mean great gear for sale. http://users.cwnet.com/w6omf/ w6omf at cwnet.com if you have a special question. hope to see you there cheers, skipp
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Antenna SWR = Desense?
Numbers 1 or 4 are the more likely. He has a Quantar which is designed to live in high RF environments at antenna sites making #2 unlikely. Also, with respect to #3, the Quantar PA has a built in circulator as standard equipment. OK. I missed (or maybe wasn't paying attention) that he had a Quantar. Still, the high VSWR isn't something I'd want to live with, especially when connected to a duplexer. I worked on an MSR2000 installed in the upper level of a two-story mechanical room (concrete) that suffered desense from its own antenna (DB224) which was mounted to the exterior of wall, maybe 15' directly above the repeater cabinet (whoever installed it probably chose that mounting location figuring it was the shortest cable path). Moving the antenna to the other side of the penthouse to get another 50 feet or so of distance from the repeater reduced the desense substantially, but didn't completely eliminate it. Moving the repeater to the lower level did the trick. So I wouldn't totally rule out #2 just yet, although given the equipment complement, I agree that #1 and #4 or other external factors are more likely (and an MSR2000 ain't no Quantar by any stretch of the imagination). --- Jeff --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com , Jeff DePolo j...@... wrote: Seems to me the three most-likely causes of your problem are: 1. Antenna itself is bad/noisy. Substituting antennas may help rule this out. 2. Not enough isolation between radiating antenna and equipment. The 100' of horizontal separation may not be enough to keep the strong RF out of your equipment, effectively bypassing/negating the isolation your finely-tuned duplexer is attempting to provide. 3. Mis-match due to out-of-band antenna is causing other problems, possibly even transmitter going spurious. While I generally don't recommend using isolators or Z-matchers as band-aids to cure antenna ills, using one to help rule this out as possible cause might be helpful as a short-term experiment. 4. You mention metal building, which conjures many bad memories of rooftop installations where all kinds of noise problems related to HVAC units, duct work, corrugated metal panels, metal screens/grills, ventilation stacks, cooling towers, etc. resulted in countless hours of time spent trying to reduce noise and passive intermod mixes. You're on your own on that one... No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.65/2323 - Release Date: 09/01/09 06:52:00
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Antenna SWR = Desense?
Hi Tim, My first suspect would be the cable from the duplex er feeding the 7/8. I have problems there more than anything. Although the 2.1 swr is a bit high I would shoot the easy target first. BR _richard From: tahrens301 tahr...@swtexas.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, September 1, 2009 3:03:29 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Antenna SWR = Desense? Hi folks, Just a bit of an update... got the 6 cavity Telewave duplexer tweaked up - looks like it pretty much hit the specs in the data sheet. With a dummy load at the 'antenna' port, I used an iso-tee to inject a signal at both the receiver input, and between the antenna port the dummy load. With a weak signal, both places showed me that there was no desense. Very weak signal would hold in the repeater. However, putting the system on the antenna (a 150-160 mhz DB-224 100' horizontally 10' vertically separated) through a metal building fed with 7/8 heliax, there seems to be no end to the desense! The wattmeter shows 30 watts forward 3 watts reflected at the antenna port, if my math serves, it's less than 2:1. Can the less than 1:1 match be the culprit? Thanks, Tim W5FN
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Antenna SWR = Desense?
Tim, This might be it. I miss read the previous. Try the Ringo for grins and see what transpires. Might be a bad connection on the old antenna. BR -Richard From: tahrens301 tahr...@swtexas.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, September 1, 2009 4:02:35 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Antenna SWR = Desense? Hi Joe, The repeater/duplexer is in my workshop (a large metal building). The heliax goes out the window to a smaller portable building about 100' away (horizontally spaced). The antenna is on that building about 10' off the ground. Don - took the dummyload analyzer to the end of the hard line, fed it into the iso-tee there. No desense is noted. Something's not right when the antenna gets hooked up. Maybe I should put up the ringo for a test. at least it's probably a bit better of a match. --- In Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com, Joe k1ike_mail@ ... wrote: You state DB-224 100' horizontally 10' vertically separated. I don't understand what you mean by that. Joe tahrens301 wrote: However, putting the system on the antenna (a 150-160 mhz DB-224 100' horizontally 10' vertically separated) through a metal building fed with 7/8 heliax, there seems to be no end to the desense!
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Antenna SWR = Desense?
Is the antenna cut for the repeater freq? In any case I've never known a bad match into a duplexer tuned into a good match to work. I've often fudged...Look at forward power while injecting a signal that is noisy (when transmitter is keyed). Gently rock the cavity frequency just a bit. If you hear the receiver improve you get the idea... Not perfect, but may get 'er going for you. GeorgeC W2DB --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, tahrens301 tahr...@... wrote: Hi folks, Just a bit of an update... got the 6 cavity Telewave duplexer tweaked up - looks liket pretty much hit the specs in the data sheet. With a dummy load at the 'antenna' port, I used an iso-tee to inject a signal at both the receiver input, and between the antenna port the dummy load. With a weak signal, both places showed me that there was no desense. Very weak signal would hold in the repeater. However, putting the system on the antenna (a 150-160 mhz DB-224 100' horizontally 10' vertically separated) through a metal building fed with 7/8 heliax, there seems to be no end to the desense! The wattmeter shows 30 watts forward 3 watts reflected at the antenna port, if my math serves, it's less than 2:1. Can the less than 1:1 match be the culprit? Thanks, Tim W5FN
RE: [Repeater-Builder]
Randy, Rather than scan large schematics piecemeal, simply take the sheets to a commercial graphics shop (some Kinko's may have the 11 by 17 equipment) and have them scan the document in one piece. My local graphics shop can handle huge schematics, so I take all Motorola and GE fold-out sheets (which are up to 34 inches wide) and have them scanned directly to PDF and put on a CD or thumb drive. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of R.K. Brumback Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 3:24 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com; manual_excha...@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Does anyone know or use a program where I can scan large schematics a little at a time and then connect them back in a file like a pdf file? I cant afford a large bed scanner but I have several 11x17s I would like to scan on my 8 ½ x 11 scanner. Randy
[Repeater-Builder] stitching schematics together
Thanks Eric! I will probably do that with my very large pages as you say. In another group someone mentioned that Adobe Photoshop will stitch together pdfs so I may try that with some of the 11 x 17s. I wasnt aware Photoshop would do graphics like that. Thanks again for your reply. Randy B. From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Eric Lemmon Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 8:38 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Randy, Rather than scan large schematics piecemeal, simply take the sheets to a commercial graphics shop (some Kinko's may have the 11 by 17 equipment) and have them scan the document in one piece. My local graphics shop can handle huge schematics, so I take all Motorola and GE fold-out sheets (which are up to 34 inches wide) and have them scanned directly to PDF and put on a CD or thumb drive. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of R.K. Brumback Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 3:24 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com ; manual_excha...@yahoogroups.com mailto:Manual_Exchange%40yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Does anyone know or use a program where I can scan large schematics a little at a time and then connect them back in a file like a pdf file? I cant afford a large bed scanner but I have several 11x17s I would like to scan on my 8 ½ x 11 scanner. Randy
RE: [Repeater-Builder] stitching schematics together
Randy, Although stitching sounds really simple, it is hardly so. Many scanners are not completely linear, because the area near each end of the scan is distorted a little. When you attempt to cut and paste two segments of a larger original together, you find that you can never get all of the fine details to line up at the junction. A perfect example of this optical aberration is shown on pages 90-91 of the July 2009 issue of National Geographic. A panoramic photo was made up of three images from the same camera, taken only seconds apart, but there is obvious misalignment between the edges of each image. My hat is off to you for intending to scan large pages in one shot. I think you'll find that it's a heckuva lot cheaper to pay a graphics shop to scan large images, than it is to buy (and then learn to use) Adobe Photoshop. I do own Photoshop, but I have neither the patience nor the inclination to spend a lot of time and energy manipulating segments of schematics when I can get a large page scanned in one pass for less than a dollar. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of R.K. Brumback Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 6:32 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] stitching schematics together Thanks Eric! I will probably do that with my very large pages as you say. In another group someone mentioned that Adobe Photoshop will stitch together pdfs so I may try that with some of the 11 x 17s. I wasnt aware Photoshop would do graphics like that. Thanks again for your reply. Randy B. From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Eric Lemmon Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 8:38 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Randy, Rather than scan large schematics piecemeal, simply take the sheets to a commercial graphics shop (some Kinko's may have the 11 by 17 equipment) and have them scan the document in one piece. My local graphics shop can handle huge schematics, so I take all Motorola and GE fold-out sheets (which are up to 34 inches wide) and have them scanned directly to PDF and put on a CD or thumb drive. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of R.K. Brumback Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 3:24 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com ; manual_excha...@yahoogroups.com mailto:Manual_Exchange%40yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Does anyone know or use a program where I can scan large schematics a little at a time and then connect them back in a file like a pdf file? I cant afford a large bed scanner but I have several 11x17s I would like to scan on my 8 ½ x 11 scanner. Randy
Re: [Repeater-Builder] stitching schematics together
This is where that commercial graphics shop might come in handy... they probably have the $500-$1000 software that can de-warp the edges AND do the stitching all in a single mouse-click. But the stuff isn't cheap. Nate WY0X
RE: [Repeater-Builder] stitching schematics together
I suggest you google Gimp should be possible with it To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com From: wb6...@verizon.net Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 19:21:42 -0700 Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] stitching schematics together Randy, Although stitching sounds really simple, it is hardly so. Many scanners are not completely linear, because the area near each end of the scan is distorted a little. When you attempt to cut and paste two segments of a larger original together, you find that you can never get all of the fine details to line up at the junction. A perfect example of this optical aberration is shown on pages 90-91 of the July 2009 issue of National Geographic. A panoramic photo was made up of three images from the same camera, taken only seconds apart, but there is obvious misalignment between the edges of each image. My hat is off to you for intending to scan large pages in one shot. I think you'll find that it's a heckuva lot cheaper to pay a graphics shop to scan large images, than it is to buy (and then learn to use) Adobe Photoshop. I do own Photoshop, but I have neither the patience nor the inclination to spend a lot of time and energy manipulating segments of schematics when I can get a large page scanned in one pass for less than a dollar. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of R.K. Brumback Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 6:32 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] stitching schematics together Thanks Eric! I will probably do that with my very large pages as you say. In another group someone mentioned that Adobe Photoshop will stitch together pdfs so I may try that with some of the 11 x 17s. I wasn’t aware Photoshop would do graphics like that. Thanks again for your reply. Randy B. From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Eric Lemmon Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 8:38 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Randy, Rather than scan large schematics piecemeal, simply take the sheets to a commercial graphics shop (some Kinko's may have the 11 by 17 equipment) and have them scan the document in one piece. My local graphics shop can handle huge schematics, so I take all Motorola and GE fold-out sheets (which are up to 34 inches wide) and have them scanned directly to PDF and put on a CD or thumb drive. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of R.K. Brumback Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 3:24 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com ; manual_excha...@yahoogroups.com mailto:Manual_Exchange%40yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Does anyone know or use a program where I can scan large schematics a little at a time and then connect them back in a file like a pdf file? I can’t afford a large bed scanner but I have several 11x17s I would like to scan on my 8 ½ x 11 scanner. Randy _ Need a place to rent, buy or share? Let us find your next place for you! http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/157631292/direct/01/
