Re: [Repeater-Builder] Wide Area Coverage
If we think amateurs are ignorant about propagation now, wait until digital takes over completely, and an entire generation of hams and commercial techs has never heard what fading or multipath actually sounds like over an analog circuit. You may not realize how much you learn about propagation subliminally, from the normal sounds you hear on the edge of a repeater's coverage area, or the subtle changes in coverage when seasons change, etc. If all that happened was a rise and fall in data rate, you might not even be aware. This is already a problem for some cell/PCS companies...younger techs don't have this intuitive grasp of propagation. 73, Paul, AE4KR - Original Message - From: n9wys To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 6:55 PM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Wide Area Coverage No, the complaints start when they can't hear/access the machine everywhere with a full quieting signal. It's amazing that some amateur licensees still don't understand signal propagation. frown But now I'm starting to get WAY off-topic. 73 de Mark - N9WYS -- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of Bill I kinda agree. Get used to the infrastructure systems and you can't make a contact when it goes down, that's when the complaining starts. i.e. cellphones and isp problems. Heck that's when real amateur radio can shine! Heck, the complaints start even when the repeater craps out. William A. Collister N7MOG
[Repeater-Builder] Wide Area Coverage
Interesting topic. I'm alarmed at how quickly digital mobile phones have dumbed down consumer expectations for telephone audio quality. I figured Vonage would have tough going, but people were so used to crummy cellphone audio by then that they didn't even flinch. Now, Vonage is often better than PCS for audio. I caught a YouTube demo of D-star from a ham club meeting in California, and everyone oohs and ahhs over the improved signal-to-noise ratio of the digital circuit. But it has that same, watery, low-grade MP3 sound that I find fatiguing in PCS calls. I hope there's always a home for analog narrowband FM repeaters. Having said that, I feel a little like the diehard AM guys 40 years ago who protested SSB as duck noise on HF. Maybe I'm now officially a dinosaur! But if I hear one more salesman call 3 kHz / 8-bit digital sampling CD quality, I think I'll scream! 73 - Paul, AE4KR - Original Message - From: n9wys To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 6:50 PM Subject: RE: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Wide Area Coverage No, Ron. I think it's more a factor of the instant gratification generation. If it doesn’t work perfectly - each time, every time - it's no good. Cell phone technology has spoiled at lot of people out there - until cellular went all-digital. (Read: dropped calls and under water signals) Ah yes, the fun of repeater ownership/operation. sigh Mark - N9WYS -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of Ron Wright Mark, Sounds as if these valley users are talking to a Motorola salesman. They promise 100% coverage. Of course once the system is in the truth comes out, hi. 73, ron, n9ee/r ps I like Mot gear, just not their sales. Have uncle who is retired VP of sales of a company. He always noted that sales is 1/2 about the product and 1/2 BS (not the degree). His sales record showed he knew what he was talking about, hi. From: n9wys [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2007/11/18 Sun PM 09:46:48 CST To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Wide Area Coverage I’ve got RM and used it for the pastseveral years. Quite a learning curve with it, but for a free piece ofsoftware it is very comprehensive and has served me very well! Unfortunately, I need to attach thecoverage plots to a 2x4 so I can whack some of my users up-side the head withit in order to get the point across. They just don’t understand whythey can’t hear the repeater when they’re down in a river valley 25+miles from the repeater and there’s a ridge of land that rises above themin between the repeater and their location. I’ve tried to explainabout being in “the shadow of the repeater†but some just don’tseem to grasp the concept. (We’re talking UHF freqs here and FLATlands for the most part. The repeater antenna is 175 ft HAAT at the towersite…) ARRRGH!!! Mark – N9WYS From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of John Barrett Propagation L something I’mlearned a lot about this last couple of weeks – neat app called RadioMobile I’ve been using to map out theoretical coverage at variouslocations where I may be asked to drop my portable repeater…. Makes me wishI had held out for a 60-75ft 3 section crank up to put on my trailer, or areally tall hill to park on J Unfortunately – not a lotta hills around this part of Texas L Radio Mobileuses USGS topographical data and can do map overlays from several free sources– check it out if you want to get some ideas where your setup will haveproblems !! From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of n9wys No, the complaints start when they can’t hear/access themachine everywhere with a full quieting signal… It’s amazingthat some amateur licensees still don’t understand signal propagation. frown But now I’m starting to get WAY off-topic… 73 de Mark – N9WYS From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Bill I kinda agree. Get used to the infrastructuresystems and you can’t make a contact when it goes down, that’s whenthe complaining starts. i.e. cellphones and isp problems. Heck that’swhen real amateur radio can shine! Heck, the complaints start even when “therepeater†craps out. William A. Collister N7MOG Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome. Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Wide Area Coverage
On Mon, 19 Nov 2007, Paul Plack wrote: But if I hear one more salesman call 3 kHz / 8-bit digital sampling CD quality, I think I'll scream! I wasn't aware there were that many salesmen that were hard of hearing or perhaps completely suckered in by whoever sold them thier stereo... -- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR [EMAIL PROTECTED] But remember, with no superpowers comes no responsibility. --rly
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Wide Area Coverage
On Nov 21, 2007, at 5:05 AM, Ron Wright wrote: Anyone checked the number of Echolink vs IRLP stations??? Yep, but it doesn't tell the whole story. Millions of dead or not-set- up-correctly EchoLink stations makes that network quite chaotic. Try listing the number of stations that are part of repeater systems and available 24/7 as part of the local infrastructure. (And then realize that many of those infrastructure type EchoLink stations are actually EchoIRLP stations, running both! Example: IRLP node 3990 is also W0CRA-R on EchoLink, and IRLP node 3291 is W0CRA- L.) The numbers fall into the category of, Lies, damned lies, and statistics. :-) -- Nate Duehr, WY0X [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Wide Area Coverage
On Nov 21, 2007, at 12:03 AM, JOHN MACKEY wrote: The sysops are probably not registering their information. That is an option in echolink. EchoIRLP node operators also have to go into the configuration files and set up AVRS support in tbd for that web page to work to find their EchoIRLP nodes. -- Nate Duehr, WY0X [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Wide Area Coverage
-- Original Message -- Received: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 08:18:40 AM CST From: Nate Duehr [EMAIL PROTECTED] SNIP Your choice. Back then, EchoLink wasn't even checking that people downloading the software and getting registered even had licenses. That changed that many years later, too. Lots of people were nervous about PC access to RF, including various regulatory agencies. Most have come around. True, but then Ham Radio Outlet isn't checking for licenses and very few repeater owners are checking for licenses, so it really isn't different than operating on the radio!
Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Wide Area Coverage
I did try it with Echolink, Bob!! It worked very well to find nodes in a specified area using this link on the Echolink web site: http://www.echolink.org/links.asp -- Original Message -- Received: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 10:32:14 PM CST From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Wide Area Coverage At 11/20/2007 00:49, you wrote: I find basically the same problem with eQSO, WIRES, and IRLP. I can't speak for eQSO or WIRES, but there really is no comparison between IRLP Echolink when it comes to locating nodes. IRLP has a very nice set of web-based utilities that, for example, let you find all nodes within a specified radius. Try that with Echolink. Bob NO6B -- Original Message -- Received: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 10:03:44 AM CST From: mailto:no6b%40no6b.com[EMAIL PROTECTED] SNIP I personally find Echolink totally useless while on travel. Too hard to find nodes because the locations aren't properly cataloged. Bob NO6B
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Wide Area Coverage
Didn't work for me. There are two EchoLink nodes near me and it didn't find either one. I'm sure that it works well for some areas. Dwayne Kincaid WD8OYG I did try it with Echolink, Bob!! It worked very well to find nodes in a specified area using this link on the Echolink web site: http://www.echolink.org/links.asp -- Original Message -- Received: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 10:32:14 PM CST From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Wide Area Coverage At 11/20/2007 00:49, you wrote: I find basically the same problem with eQSO, WIRES, and IRLP. I can't speak for eQSO or WIRES, but there really is no comparison between IRLP Echolink when it comes to locating nodes. IRLP has a very nice set of web-based utilities that, for example, let you find all nodes within a specified radius. Try that with Echolink. Bob NO6B -- Original Message -- Received: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 10:03:44 AM CST From: mailto:no6b%40no6b.com[EMAIL PROTECTED] SNIP I personally find Echolink totally useless while on travel. Too hard to find nodes because the locations aren't properly cataloged. Bob NO6B
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Wide Area Coverage
On Nov 18, 2007, at 8:46 PM, n9wys wrote: Unfortunately, I need to attach the coverage plots to a 2x4 so I can whack some of my users up-side the head with it in order to get the point across. They just don’t understand ... The Readysnitch and Wouff Hong are standing by for your use at your earliest opportunity. :-) -- Nate Duehr, WY0X [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Wide Area Coverage
On Nov 18, 2007, at 10:01 PM, George Henry wrote: Couple of big differences between D-Star, IRLP and Echolink: With Echolink, any licensed amateur with a soundcard-equipped computer and an internet connection can connect to an Echolink-enabled repeater. With IRLP and D-Star, you can only establish a connection between repeaters over the air - there is no access from the internet side. Not 100% true. IRLP node owners can install a web-server application that also allows for connections from a PC running SpeakFreely for Windows. Not many do. It's not popular since many node owners see the no PC access prevailing thought in the network as a positive thing. But PC access *is* possible and has been discussed in public by Dave Cameron VE7LTD, the system designer, at the IRLP conferences in Las Vegas. And for now, only an Icom D-Star radio can connect to a D-Star repeater (yes, I know about the dongle, but it's not commercially available yet nor easily replicated), while any rig with a touchtone pad can dial up an IRLP link. Heck, who needs DTMF when you have a PC with SSH? :-) Of course, you have to be a node owner (or have their permission) to play with such things... log into the node via command line and type decode for whatever DTMF command you would normally punch, and it'll do it. Some node owners also have customized web interfaces hiding behind password protected web pages they allow users to control the nodes from. It all depends on the node owner. Right now I'm working on a web- interface to control various Colorado nodes that wish to participate for ARES/RACES. If I ever find enough time to finish it... -- Nate Duehr, WY0X [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Wide Area Coverage
In the past Dave (VE7LTD) was completely unwilling to allow PC users from accessing a repeater. Has this changed? Because of Dave's original actions, I have always avoided IRLP and used Echolink and eQSO. -- Original Message -- Received: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 02:44:28 AM CST From: Nate Duehr [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Wide Area Coverage On Nov 18, 2007, at 10:01 PM, George Henry wrote: Couple of big differences between D-Star, IRLP and Echolink: With Echolink, any licensed amateur with a soundcard-equipped computer and an internet connection can connect to an Echolink-enabled repeater. With IRLP and D-Star, you can only establish a connection between repeaters over the air - there is no access from the internet side. Not 100% true. IRLP node owners can install a web-server application that also allows for connections from a PC running SpeakFreely for Windows. Not many do. It's not popular since many node owners see the no PC access prevailing thought in the network as a positive thing. But PC access *is* possible and has been discussed in public by Dave Cameron VE7LTD, the system designer, at the IRLP conferences in Las Vegas. And for now, only an Icom D-Star radio can connect to a D-Star repeater (yes, I know about the dongle, but it's not commercially available yet nor easily replicated), while any rig with a touchtone pad can dial up an IRLP link. Heck, who needs DTMF when you have a PC with SSH? :-) Of course, you have to be a node owner (or have their permission) to play with such things... log into the node via command line and type decode for whatever DTMF command you would normally punch, and it'll do it. Some node owners also have customized web interfaces hiding behind password protected web pages they allow users to control the nodes from. It all depends on the node owner. Right now I'm working on a web- interface to control various Colorado nodes that wish to participate for ARES/RACES. If I ever find enough time to finish it... -- Nate Duehr, WY0X [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Wide Area Coverage
From: JOHN MACKEY [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2007/11/19 Mon AM 03:30:02 CST To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Wide Area Coverage In the past Dave (VE7LTD) was completely unwilling to allow PC users from accessing a repeater. Has this changed? Because of Dave's original actions, I have always avoided IRLP and used Echolink and eQSO. I use Echolink because IRLP was so picky about conversation content. Ham Radio topics only. We talk a lot more than just Ham Radio related topics. And for now, only an Icom D-Star radio can connect to a D-Star repeater (yes, I know about the dongle, but it's not commercially available yet nor easily replicated), while any rig with a touchtone pad can dial up an IRLP link. Heck, who needs DTMF when you have a PC with SSH? :-) It is hard to access IRLP or Echolink node with a PC in the mobile. Echolink allows repeater/radio to echolink access with DTMF from the radio side. Just DTMF the node number when the repeater is connected. D-Star is a different type of modulation mode. This is my interest. Having a dedicated data link to other such systems is also a very positive direction. 73, ron, n9ee/r Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Wide Area Coverage
Mark, Sounds as if these valley users are talking to a Motorola salesman. They promise 100% coverage. Of course once the system is in the truth comes out, hi. 73, ron, n9ee/r ps I like Mot gear, just not their sales. Have uncle who is retired VP of sales of a company. He always noted that sales is 1/2 about the product and 1/2 BS (not the degree). His sales record showed he knew what he was talking about, hi. From: n9wys [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2007/11/18 Sun PM 09:46:48 CST To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Wide Area Coverage Iâve got RM and used it for the pastseveral years. Quite a learning curve with it, but for a free piece ofsoftware it is very comprehensive and has served me very well! Unfortunately, I need to attach thecoverage plots to a 2x4 so I can whack some of my users up-side the head withit in order to get the point across. They just donât understand whythey canât hear the repeater when theyâre down in a river valley 25+miles from the repeater and thereâs a ridge of land that rises above themin between the repeater and their location. Iâve tried to explainabout being in âthe shadow of the repeaterâ but some just donâtseem to grasp the concept. (Weâre talking UHF freqs here and FLATlands for the most part. The repeater antenna is 175 ft HAAT at the towersiteâ¦) ARRRGH!!! Mark â N9WYS From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of John Barrett Propagation L something Iâmlearned a lot about this last couple of weeks â neat app called RadioMobile Iâve been using to map out theoretical coverage at variouslocations where I may be asked to drop my portable repeaterâ¦. Makes me wishI had held out for a 60-75ft 3 section crank up to put on my trailer, or areally tall hill to park on J Unfortunately â not a lotta hills around this part of Texas L Radio Mobileuses USGS topographical data and can do map overlays from several free sourcesâ check it out if you want to get some ideas where your setup will haveproblems !! From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of n9wys No, the complaints start when they canât hear/access themachine everywhere with a full quieting signal⦠Itâs amazingthat some amateur licensees still donât understand signal propagation. frown But now Iâm starting to get WAY off-topic⦠73 de Mark â N9WYS From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Bill I kinda agree. Get used to the infrastructuresystems and you canât make a contact when it goes down, thatâs whenthe complaining starts. i.e. cellphones and isp problems. Heck thatâswhen real amateur radio can shine! Heck, the complaints start even when âtherepeaterâ craps out. William A. Collister N7MOG Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Wide Area Coverage
On Nov 19, 2007, at 2:30 AM, JOHN MACKEY wrote: In the past Dave (VE7LTD) was completely unwilling to allow PC users from accessing a repeater. Has this changed? Years ago, but your node owner has to install it, and the PC can connect to only one node at a time, not Reflectors. Probably first demo'ed at the IRLP convention about four years ago? I'd have to look. Most node owners don't install it. Because of Dave's original actions, I have always avoided IRLP and used Echolink and eQSO. Your choice. Back then, EchoLink wasn't even checking that people downloading the software and getting registered even had licenses. That changed that many years later, too. Lots of people were nervous about PC access to RF, including various regulatory agencies. Most have come around. -- Nate Duehr, WY0X [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Wide Area Coverage
At 11/19/2007 06:50, you wrote: Our local IRLP systems would be repeatedly disconnected by IRLP sysops when non-related subjects came up. And these subjects were not controversial, but more like how the beach was that day. It was discouraging. Chances are you were connected to a reflector channel that was topic-specific. For example 9255 is used specifically for balloon flights discussions. I personally find Echolink totally useless while on travel. Too hard to find nodes because the locations aren't properly cataloged. Bob NO6B
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Wide Area Coverage
Definitely not true. I've been involved with the local node for a number of years as a user and tech and never heard, or read about anything like that. Laryn K8TVZ --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Ron Wright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I use Echolink because IRLP was so picky about conversation content. Ham Radio topics only. We talk a lot more than just Ham Radio related topics.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Wide Area Coverage
--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Ron Wright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Our local IRLP systems would be repeatedly disconnected by IRLP sysops when non-related subjects came up. And these subjects were not controversial, but more like how the beach was that day. It was discouraging. We got reports from other IRLP users. 73, ron, n9ee/r IRLP like EchoLink is a peer to peer system. There is no way for the IRLP sysops to have any idea what you are talking about let alone disconnect you unless you are connected to one of their repeaters. If, on the other hand, if you were connected to a reflector (a conference room in EchoLink speak) and the sysop of the reflector didn't like your traffic then he could certainly disconnect (and possibly ban) you. It's very similar to local repeaters, some are not friendly to random ragchews and some are. There's no need to abandon a band (or mode), just because one repeater (reflector) isn't friendly to your interests. Just find a place that is. 73's Skip WB6YMH
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Wide Area Coverage
On Nov 19, 2007, at 3:09 PM, wb6ymh wrote: --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Ron Wright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Our local IRLP systems would be repeatedly disconnected by IRLP sysops when non-related subjects came up. And these subjects were not controversial, but more like how the beach was that day. It was discouraging. We got reports from other IRLP users. 73, ron, n9ee/r IRLP like EchoLink is a peer to peer system. There is no way for the IRLP sysops to have any idea what you are talking about let alone disconnect you unless you are connected to one of their repeaters. If, on the other hand, if you were connected to a reflector (a conference room in EchoLink speak) and the sysop of the reflector didn't like your traffic then he could certainly disconnect (and possibly ban) you. It's very similar to local repeaters, some are not friendly to random ragchews and some are. There's no need to abandon a band (or mode), just because one repeater (reflector) isn't friendly to your interests. Just find a place that is. 73's Skip WB6YMH 100% agreed. As a Reflector owner/operator and operator of four nodes, I have no topic rules other than legal and perhaps not utterly retarded. I wouldn't enforce even the utterly retarded conversation filter on any of our club's machines (we're a ragchew club) unless a LOT of someones complained. On my own node, it might suffer a sudden and complete loss of Internet connectivity -- oh darn, the Ethernet plug fell out the back and won't get put back in until a few hours from now! (GRIN) But I'd never get on the air and tell you that you were off-topic. That's just one Reflector operator's opinion -- there are others, I'm sure. Avoid those that don't welcome you. And double check that you read their Reflector's policies before complaining. Perhaps they set aside certain channels for certain types of traffic. What Reflector and channel was it? Node to node, the only thing anyone could do to stop you from talking about something would be to block calls from your local node, just like EchoLink. Nothing different there. Perhaps what really happened was that you ran across a Reflector owner/ operator who had a reason not to have ragchewing going on. One example of this might be the Reflector channel that has the large California linked repeater systems tied into them -- they're not friendly to long QSO's because they've got 40+ repeaters connected at a time. -- Nate Duehr, WY0X [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Wide Area Coverage
On Nov 18, 2007, at 8:24 AM, Bill wrote: I kinda agree. Get used to the infrastructure systems and you can’t make a contact when it goes down, that’s when the complaining starts. i.e. cellphones and isp problems. Heck that’s when real amateur radio can shine! Heck, the complaints start even when “the repeater” craps out. William A. Collister N7MOG So you're complaining about the complainers? ;-) :-) -- Nate Duehr [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Wide Area Coverage
That is exactly why I operate my own repeaters, with my own internet gateways. -- Original Message -- Received: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 06:39:18 PM CST From: Bill [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Wide Area Coverage Yep, the non-do-ers that want it all without lifting a finger for maintenance time or even donating to the repeater fund. Others that are involved have my permission to gripe. ;} Nuff said 'bout dat. The real point that I wish to make is to not get to wild about building even more infrastructure that has high failure rates. I use the K.I.S.S. method mostly. Ya, right. Here I am on the computer again William A. Collister N7MOG -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nate Duehr Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 3:21 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Wide Area Coverage On Nov 18, 2007, at 8:24 AM, Bill wrote: I kinda agree. Get used to the infrastructure systems and you can't make a contact when it goes down, that's when the complaining starts. i.e. cellphones and isp problems. Heck that's when real amateur radio can shine! Heck, the complaints start even when the repeater craps out. William A. Collister N7MOG So you're complaining about the complainers? ;-) :-) -- Nate Duehr [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links
RE: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Wide Area Coverage
No, Ron. I think it's more a factor of the instant gratification generation. If it doesnt work perfectly - each time, every time - it's no good. Cell phone technology has spoiled at lot of people out there - until cellular went all-digital. (Read: dropped calls and under water signals) Ah yes, the fun of repeater ownership/operation. sigh Mark - N9WYS -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of Ron Wright Mark, Sounds as if these valley users are talking to a Motorola salesman. They promise 100% coverage. Of course once the system is in the truth comes out, hi. 73, ron, n9ee/r ps I like Mot gear, just not their sales. Have uncle who is retired VP of sales of a company. He always noted that sales is 1/2 about the product and 1/2 BS (not the degree). His sales record showed he knew what he was talking about, hi. From: n9wys [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2007/11/18 Sun PM 09:46:48 CST To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Wide Area Coverage Iâve got RM and used it for the pastseveral years. Quite a learning curve with it, but for a free piece ofsoftware it is very comprehensive and has served me very well! Unfortunately, I need to attach thecoverage plots to a 2x4 so I can whack some of my users up-side the head withit in order to get the point across. They just donât understand whythey canât hear the repeater when theyâre down in a river valley 25+miles from the repeater and thereâs a ridge of land that rises above themin between the repeater and their location. Iâve tried to explainabout being in âthe shadow of the repeaterâ but some just donâtseem to grasp the concept. (Weâre talking UHF freqs here and FLATlands for the most part. The repeater antenna is 175 ft HAAT at the towersiteâ¦) ARRRGH!!! Mark â N9WYS From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of John Barrett Propagation L something Iâmlearned a lot about this last couple of weeks â neat app called RadioMobile Iâve been using to map out theoretical coverage at variouslocations where I may be asked to drop my portable repeaterâ¦. Makes me wishI had held out for a 60-75ft 3 section crank up to put on my trailer, or areally tall hill to park on J Unfortunately â not a lotta hills around this part of Texas L Radio Mobileuses USGS topographical data and can do map overlays from several free sourcesâ check it out if you want to get some ideas where your setup will haveproblems !! From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of n9wys No, the complaints start when they canât hear/access themachine everywhere with a full quieting signal⦠Itâs amazingthat some amateur licensees still donât understand signal propagation. frown But now Iâm starting to get WAY off-topic⦠73 de Mark â N9WYS From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Bill I kinda agree. Get used to the infrastructuresystems and you canât make a contact when it goes down, thatâs whenthe complaining starts. i.e. cellphones and isp problems. Heck thatâswhen real amateur radio can shine! Heck, the complaints start even when âtherepeaterâ craps out. William A. Collister N7MOG Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome. Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Wide Area Coverage
On Nov 19, 2007, at 7:50 AM, Ron Wright wrote: Our local IRLP systems would be repeatedly disconnected by IRLP sysops when non-related subjects came up. And these subjects were not controversial, but more like how the beach was that day. It was discouraging. We got reports from other IRLP users. 73, ron, n9ee/r The only other rule I know about that *some* Reflector operators push is the local conversation rule. Some Reflector owners find it annoying when a single node with two operators on a local repeater don't have the courtesy to unlink from the Reflector when they're having an extended local QSO. Also, if the node owner puts correct e-mail contact information into the IRLP database... http://www.irlp.net/owners/dbupdates.html ... block messages that state EXACTLY why the node was blocked/dropped from a Reflector are sent to that e-mail address. Copies are sent also to the Reflector owner (some have trusted volunteers do their monitoring for them) and also to a core team that reviews them. A LONG time ago, we had one Reflector owner who got in a political pissing match with someone and blocked their node or nodes. Back then, there were very few Reflectors, and it kinda made a stir in the volunteers -- we didn't want to see blocks done for political reasons. So literally -- when a reflector owner goes to the blocking system, there's checkboxes for the approved reasons they can disconnect someone, and there's also a other reason where they can enter notes for those really strange situations -- but there's always a few of us reviewing those e-mails... just in case something gets out of hand that would make the whole IRLP group of volunteers look like idiots. (Basically WAY back then, the nice folks who wrote/built the early Reflector blocking system stated that they would not support their code and hard work being used for a personal pissing match.) Anyway, that's probably WAY too much background info -- but suffice it to say, there are plenty of Reflectors where you and your friend's ragchew would be welcome. Feel free to pop on by on 9870 (main channel - the sub channels seem to be used by a number of groups for little mini-linking systems, and the sponsors of the bandwidth also use a sub-channel... they kinda like to be left alone, but the main channel is wide-open) anytime, and have your friends join you there. You won't get any complaints from me. (Or Corey who also popped up. Hi Corey.) I, like Corey, typically only block nodes for technical reasons... long TX tails passed in, CW ID's, etc. The only MAJOR no-no on all Reflectors is pulsing. Pulsing is where your node keys back toward the Reflector briefly after someone else unkeys, and is usually an artifact of how it's linked into a repeater... CTCSS decoders and what- not take time to decide that tones have gone away, etc. It can easily be fixed with the pulsecheck command and proper setting of the cover- up timer in the /home/irlp/custom/timing file. The problem with those is that one node doing it is annoying, and it interrupts communications between two other nodes. But if a second node just happens to join the Reflector while the first is already there, that ALSO has a pulseback problem, it creates a deadly-embrace ping-pong effect that can't be stopped that makes the entire channel unusable and makes it very hard for others to get DTMF into their nodes to disconnect. It's the one technical thing that no Reflector owner has any remorse about dumping off ANY node that does it, and not even thinking twice. Luckily, most folks follow the instructions in the node setup documentation and their nodes don't pulse, because they've set them up correctly.) Well that e-mail got long... glad I type fast! Seriously, if you ran across a Reflector owner who didn't like your conversations, just move... there's 22 reflectors and all have ten channels for traffic, so there's 220 channels out there to use to chat with your buddies. Well over half of those aren't in use as I look right now... plenty of wide open spaces to do pretty much whatever you want. Heck, if you guys are interesting enough, I'll park my nodes on 9870 with you! (GRIN) Might as well have something to listen to here on my little micro-node here at the house while I'm in the shack, huh? -- Nate Duehr, WY0X [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Repeater-Builder] Wide Area Coverage
Imagine your 2M or 70CM base station were on a tall, tall, tower and you can key and operate any one of 140 different repeaters world wide, no noise, static, etc. Thats DSTAR today. From Hawaii to Alaska, to Vancouver to Ottawa, to Los Angeles, to London, to Berlin to Venice, to Darwin, AU. Today and NOW. I know this is probably a bit off topic, and I appreciate your indulgence. visit www.dstarusers.org and see who's talking. Steve NU5D, /K5CTX B Temple, Texas US -- /Subscribe to dstar_digital/ Powered by groups.yahoo.com http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dstar_digital/
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Wide Area Coverage
Ohhh geez - just get your general and work some HF !! Internet linking just to make contacts is NOT ham radio. setting up regional repeaters and such.. there is a good use for internet linking. The ARRL Phone Sweeps are running this weekend . made any contacts ?? _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve S. Bosshard (NU5D) Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 8:51 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Wide Area Coverage Imagine your 2M or 70CM base station were on a tall, tall, tower and you can key and operate any one of 140 different repeaters world wide, no noise, static, etc. Thats DSTAR today. From Hawaii to Alaska, to Vancouver to Ottawa, to Los Angeles, to London, to Berlin to Venice, to Darwin, AU. Today and NOW. I know this is probably a bit off topic, and I appreciate your indulgence. visit www.dstarusers.org and see who's talking. Steve NU5D, /K5CTX B Temple, Texas US -- /Subscribe to dstar_digital/ Powered by groups.yahoo.com http://groups. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dstar_digital/ yahoo.com/group/dstar_digital/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Wide Area Coverage
Steve, I think this is what is misunderstood by most repeater owners and users is that D-Star has set up a system that is not only digital voice, but a gateway for interconnecting them for those who wish to connect into the system. It is more like analog repeaters connected into a chat IRLP or Echolink, but with better full duplex connectivity. My interest in D-Star is the digital voice. From a number of commercial and Ham users it seems digital has a much more fad/multi-path problem. Know the world is going digital, but for mobile applications seems to have some problems. For fixed got the path digital offers a lot. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: Steve S. Bosshard (NU5D) [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2007/11/18 Sun AM 08:50:31 CST To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED], Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Wide Area Coverage Imagine your 2M or 70CM base station were on a tall, tall, tower and you can key and operate any one of 140 different repeaters world wide, no noise, static, etc. Thats DSTAR today. From Hawaii to Alaska, to Vancouver to Ottawa, to Los Angeles, to London, to Berlin to Venice, to Darwin, AU. Today and NOW. I know this is probably a bit off topic, and I appreciate your indulgence. visit www.dstarusers.org and see who's talking. Steve NU5D, /K5CTX B Temple, Texas US -- /Subscribe to dstar_digital/ Powered by groups.yahoo.com http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dstar_digital/ Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Wide Area Coverage
At 11/18/2007 06:50, you wrote: Imagine your 2M or 70CM base station were on a tall, tall, tower and you can key and operate any one of 140 different repeaters world wide, no noise, static, etc. Thats DSTAR today. That's also IRLP Echolink today, albeit with much greater coverage. Bob NO6B
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Wide Area Coverage
Propagation :-( something I'm learned a lot about this last couple of weeks - neat app called Radio Mobile I've been using to map out theoretical coverage at various locations where I may be asked to drop my portable repeater.. Makes me wish I had held out for a 60-75ft 3 section crank up to put on my trailer, or a really tall hill to park on :-) Unfortunately - not a lotta hills around this part of Texas :-( Radio Mobile uses USGS topographical data and can do map overlays from several free sources - check it out if you want to get some ideas where your setup will have problems !! _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of n9wys Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 8:55 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Wide Area Coverage No, the complaints start when they can't hear/access the machine everywhere with a full quieting signal. It's amazing that some amateur licensees still don't understand signal propagation. frown But now I'm starting to get WAY off-topic. 73 de Mark - N9WYS _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of Bill I kinda agree. Get used to the infrastructure systems and you can't make a contact when it goes down, that's when the complaining starts. i.e. cellphones and isp problems. Heck that's when real amateur radio can shine! Heck, the complaints start even when the repeater craps out. William A. Collister N7MOG
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Wide Area Coverage
I've got RM and used it for the past several years. Quite a learning curve with it, but for a free piece of software it is very comprehensive and has served me very well! Unfortunately, I need to attach the coverage plots to a 2x4 so I can whack some of my users up-side the head with it in order to get the point across. They just don't understand why they can't hear the repeater when they're down in a river valley 25+ miles from the repeater and there's a ridge of land that rises above them in between the repeater and their location. I've tried to explain about being in the shadow of the repeater but some just don't seem to grasp the concept. (We're talking UHF freqs here and FLAT lands for the most part. The repeater antenna is 175 ft HAAT at the tower site.) ARRRGH!!! Mark - N9WYS _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of John Barrett Propagation :-( something I'm learned a lot about this last couple of weeks - neat app called Radio Mobile I've been using to map out theoretical coverage at various locations where I may be asked to drop my portable repeater.. Makes me wish I had held out for a 60-75ft 3 section crank up to put on my trailer, or a really tall hill to park on :-) Unfortunately - not a lotta hills around this part of Texas :-( Radio Mobile uses USGS topographical data and can do map overlays from several free sources - check it out if you want to get some ideas where your setup will have problems !! _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of n9wys No, the complaints start when they can't hear/access the machine everywhere with a full quieting signal. It's amazing that some amateur licensees still don't understand signal propagation. frown But now I'm starting to get WAY off-topic. 73 de Mark - N9WYS _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of Bill I kinda agree. Get used to the infrastructure systems and you can't make a contact when it goes down, that's when the complaining starts. i.e. cellphones and isp problems. Heck that's when real amateur radio can shine! Heck, the complaints start even when the repeater craps out. William A. Collister N7MOG
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Wide Area Coverage
Couple of big differences between D-Star, IRLP and Echolink: With Echolink, any licensed amateur with a soundcard-equipped computer and an internet connection can connect to an Echolink-enabled repeater. With IRLP and D-Star, you can only establish a connection between repeaters over the air - there is no access from the internet side. And for now, only an Icom D-Star radio can connect to a D-Star repeater (yes, I know about the dongle, but it's not commercially available yet nor easily replicated), while any rig with a touchtone pad can dial up an IRLP link. George, KA3HSW - Original Message - From: Ron Wright [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 9:06 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Wide Area Coverage Steve, I think this is what is misunderstood by most repeater owners and users is that D-Star has set up a system that is not only digital voice, but a gateway for interconnecting them for those who wish to connect into the system. It is more like analog repeaters connected into a chat IRLP or Echolink, but with better full duplex connectivity. My interest in D-Star is the digital voice. From a number of commercial and Ham users it seems digital has a much more fad/multi-path problem. Know the world is going digital, but for mobile applications seems to have some problems. For fixed got the path digital offers a lot. 73, ron, n9ee/r
[Repeater-Builder] Wide area coverage
Hello all, I am Allen, senior radio technician, working in Africa, new member. I have extensive experience in trunking systems, but not very good with conventional. I would like to know the best method to link 4 repeaters (conventional) to work as one channel. Are link radios the best method? (no cabling is available). If so, which is the best repeater controller I can use to connect three link radios from master site? Your replay is highly appriciated. Regards Allen
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Wide area coverage
I have used Spoke and Hub system. Several 146 Mhz repeaters cross connected to 440 Mhz control stations, all looking at the same 440 repeater for distrubution between the different 144 Mhz repeaters. Steve NU5D On 1/7/07, allenittiyavira [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello all, I am Allen, senior radio technician, working in Africa, new member. I have extensive experience in trunking systems, but not very good with conventional. -- Ham Radio Spoken Here.NU5D
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Wide area coverage
My preference will be RLC-4 from Link-comm . http://www.link-comm.com/controllers/about.htm Juan _ De: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] En nombre de allenittiyavira Enviado el: domingo, 07 de enero de 2007 11:56 Para: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Asunto: [Repeater-Builder] Wide area coverage Hello all, I am Allen, senior radio technician, working in Africa, new member. I have extensive experience in trunking systems, but not very good with conventional. I would like to know the best method to link 4 repeaters (conventional) to work as one channel. Are link radios the best method? (no cabling is available). If so, which is the best repeater controller I can use to connect three link radios from master site? Your replay is highly appriciated. Regards Allen __ Información de NOD32, revisión 1963 (20070108) __ Este mensaje ha sido analizado con NOD32 antivirus system http://www.nod32.com
