[Repeater-Builder] Off topic but Important
Sorry to barge in with work related issues but some of you on here work with or are first responders so I am appealing to you to read my recent post and take action to help us have the 700 MHz D block allocated to public safety, for more information see: http://andrewseybold.com/1926-public-safety-needs-your-support-today Thanks for your support! Andy W6AMS aseyb...@andrewseybold.com mailto:aseyb...@andrewseybold.com 315 Meigs Road, Suite A-267 Santa Barbara, CA 93109 805-898-2460 office 805-898-2466 fax www.andrewseybold.com http://www.andrewseybold.com
[Repeater-Builder] Off-Topic: Shop liability insurance
For those that are on the list that own their own two-way shop: Who do you use for a liability carrier and what is your typical monthly/yearly premium? I have a customer I have been dealing with for about 8 years that has decided they won't do business with anyone that does not have liability insurance on the products they vend. It seems rather stupid to me, but I guess that's what happens when lawyers get involved. Input appreciated. Scott Scott Zimmerman Amateur Radio Call N3XCC 474 Barnett Road Boswell, PA 15531 Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: repeater-builder-dig...@yahoogroups.com repeater-builder-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: repeater-builder-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Off-Topic: Shop liability insurance
Scott, I am confused? Do they mean liability insurance for the product you are installing or a general liability policy for when you are doing work on their property? If it is for the product you are installing I would push back and try to find out what they are talking about. It may be someone in their purchasing department has gone off the rocker and misinterpreted a directive. Stan -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Zimmerman Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 4:04 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Off-Topic: Shop liability insurance For those that are on the list that own their own two-way shop: Who do you use for a liability carrier and what is your typical monthly/yearly premium? I have a customer I have been dealing with for about 8 years that has decided they won't do business with anyone that does not have liability insurance on the products they vend. It seems rather stupid to me, but I guess that's what happens when lawyers get involved. Input appreciated. Scott Scott Zimmerman Amateur Radio Call N3XCC 474 Barnett Road Boswell, PA 15531 Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Off-Topic: Shop liability insurance
Scott, Screw 'em. You don't need them. 73 de Lee K4LJP On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 5:24 PM, Stanley Stanukinos ka5...@swbell.netwrote: Scott, I am confused? Do they mean liability insurance for the product you are installing or a general liability policy for when you are doing work on their property? If it is for the product you are installing I would push back and try to find out what they are talking about. It may be someone in their purchasing department has gone off the rocker and misinterpreted a directive. Stan -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.comRepeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.comRepeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Zimmerman Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 4:04 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Off-Topic: Shop liability insurance For those that are on the list that own their own two-way shop: Who do you use for a liability carrier and what is your typical monthly/yearly premium? I have a customer I have been dealing with for about 8 years that has decided they won't do business with anyone that does not have liability insurance on the products they vend. It seems rather stupid to me, but I guess that's what happens when lawyers get involved. Input appreciated. Scott Scott Zimmerman Amateur Radio Call N3XCC 474 Barnett Road Boswell, PA 15531 Yahoo! Groups Links -- Always drink upstream from the herd.
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Off-Topic: Shop liability insurance
1) As we all know you need at least liability insurance on your business. 2) Since most manufacturers hold themselves not responsible for ANYTHING (incidental damage) other than replacement or repair during the warranty period a customer does have the legal right to TRY to contract you to do so. I don't have any customers that have pulled that stunt but it is not unheard of. I would try to reason with them. If that does not work, I personally would drop them. Sounds kinda fishy after 8 yrs of dealing with them. Just my opinion!!! --- On Wed, 5/19/10, Stanley Stanukinos ka5...@swbell.net wrote: From: Stanley Stanukinos ka5...@swbell.net Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Off-Topic: Shop liability insurance To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, May 19, 2010, 5:24 PM Scott, I am confused? Do they mean liability insurance for the product you are installing or a general liability policy for when you are doing work on their property? If it is for the product you are installing I would push back and try to find out what they are talking about. It may be someone in their purchasing department has gone off the rocker and misinterpreted a directive. Stan -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Zimmerman Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 4:04 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Off-Topic: Shop liability insurance For those that are on the list that own their own two-way shop: Who do you use for a liability carrier and what is your typical monthly/yearly premium? I have a customer I have been dealing with for about 8 years that has decided they won't do business with anyone that does not have liability insurance on the products they vend. It seems rather stupid to me, but I guess that's what happens when lawyers get involved. Input appreciated. Scott Scott Zimmerman Amateur Radio Call N3XCC 474 Barnett Road Boswell, PA 15531 Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Off-Topic: Shop liability insurance
I think they are going to be extremly short of suppliers very soon! As far as average liability insurance is concerned it varies on the scope of your business practice. I am required to have a 2 mill liability policy on a tower space I rent. costs me about $100 a month. Needless to say with the economy and nextel, I will be shutting that site down shortly if things don't pick up. It is far cheaper to own you own tower site and contract out installs and service with a capitation It seems to be working as the small shops need the extra install and service, in turn I just sit back and collect rental and of course just service my tower. --- On Wed, 5/19/10, Scott Zimmerman n3...@repeater-builder.com wrote: From: Scott Zimmerman n3...@repeater-builder.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Off-Topic: Shop liability insurance To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, May 19, 2010, 5:42 PM Well... They claim they want product liability insurance for any products received on property. Not just installed, but SOLD!! I talked with one of the purchasing agents and they said they can no longer go out and buy a box of bolts at the local hardware store and use those in the manufacturing process since the vendor of those bolts won't insure them. I think they are trying to limit THEIR liability by being able to pass the blame onto their vendors. Quite frankly I don't see how a portable radio could be a liability issue, but I'm a technician, not a lawyer. At any rate, I was just trying to find out what the average sole proprietor pays for liability insurance. Scott Scott Zimmerman Amateur Radio Call N3XCC 474 Barnett Road Boswell, PA 15531 Stanley Stanukinos wrote: Scott, I am confused? Do they mean liability insurance for the product you are installing or a general liability policy for when you are doing work on their property? If it is for the product you are installing I would push back and try to find out what they are talking about. It may be someone in their purchasing department has gone off the rocker and misinterpreted a directive. Stan -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Zimmerman Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 4:04 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Off-Topic: Shop liability insurance For those that are on the list that own their own two-way shop: Who do you use for a liability carrier and what is your typical monthly/yearly premium? I have a customer I have been dealing with for about 8 years that has decided they won't do business with anyone that does not have liability insurance on the products they vend. It seems rather stupid to me, but I guess that's what happens when lawyers get involved. Input appreciated. Scott Scott Zimmerman Amateur Radio Call N3XCC 474 Barnett Road Boswell, PA 15531 Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Off-Topic: Shop liability insurance
I concur with some of the other response's you have received so far. I would inform them that it has been nice doing business with them but their requirement to have liability insurance for a product sold to them IE. A radio or part covered under the manufactures warranty will be all that they will receive as this is not a standard business practice and if they still insist on it they can be told ok here is the yearly fee to do business with my shop and pass the direct cost of the insurance on to them with whatever labor overhead cost you have to process the insurance. They may find out that they will not be able to even get a bolt to make their product from others as well. Stan From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Zimmerman Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 4:42 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Off-Topic: Shop liability insurance Well... They claim they want product liability insurance for any products received on property. Not just installed, but SOLD!! I talked with one of the purchasing agents and they said they can no longer go out and buy a box of bolts at the local hardware store and use those in the manufacturing process since the vendor of those bolts won't insure them. I think they are trying to limit THEIR liability by being able to pass the blame onto their vendors. Quite frankly I don't see how a portable radio could be a liability issue, but I'm a technician, not a lawyer. At any rate, I was just trying to find out what the average sole proprietor pays for liability insurance. Scott Scott Zimmerman Amateur Radio Call N3XCC 474 Barnett Road Boswell, PA 15531 Stanley Stanukinos wrote: Scott, I am confused? Do they mean liability insurance for the product you are installing or a general liability policy for when you are doing work on their property? If it is for the product you are installing I would push back and try to find out what they are talking about. It may be someone in their purchasing department has gone off the rocker and misinterpreted a directive. Stan -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Scott Zimmerman Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 4:04 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Off-Topic: Shop liability insurance For those that are on the list that own their own two-way shop: Who do you use for a liability carrier and what is your typical monthly/yearly premium? I have a customer I have been dealing with for about 8 years that has decided they won't do business with anyone that does not have liability insurance on the products they vend. It seems rather stupid to me, but I guess that's what happens when lawyers get involved. Input appreciated. Scott Scott Zimmerman Amateur Radio Call N3XCC 474 Barnett Road Boswell, PA 15531 Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Off-Topic: Shop liability insurance
been doing that for 20 years on all the security and sound systems we sell about 1 to 2 million in coverage our govt. customers want. - Original Message - From: Scott Zimmerman n3...@repeater-builder.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 5:03 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Off-Topic: Shop liability insurance For those that are on the list that own their own two-way shop: Who do you use for a liability carrier and what is your typical monthly/yearly premium? I have a customer I have been dealing with for about 8 years that has decided they won't do business with anyone that does not have liability insurance on the products they vend. It seems rather stupid to me, but I guess that's what happens when lawyers get involved. Input appreciated. Scott Scott Zimmerman Amateur Radio Call N3XCC 474 Barnett Road Boswell, PA 15531 Yahoo! Groups Links
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Off-Topic: Shop liability insurance
Scott, Run, don't walk away from them. If they are a manufacture of any product and want the manufacture of any parts used in the manufacture of the product they make, good luck in a law suit. They might be able to get this in court, but I don't think the courts will allow the manufacture to include another vendor or supplier of parts unless they could prove that the parts supplied were defective or caused the failure. In most cases the final manufacture is responsible for the proper testing of their product to insure product reliability. If I was a supplier of parts to them and they requested that I provide them with liability insurance for the parts I supplied I would tell them to look elsewhere. Sound like a company that has a scary past and is looking at someone else to blame for there failures. Just my $0.02 worth. Please provide the name of the company requesting this so we can all STAY AWAY. Thanks, Charles Miller
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Off-Topic: Shop liability insurance
On 5/19/2010 3:03 PM, Scott Zimmerman wrote: Input appreciated. Re: Liability insurance... The whole thing is amazing... you can buy the insurance, but it won't pay for the lawsuit or the lawyers... so what's the point? That's what will drive most small businesses bankrupt anyway... the costs of the lawyers. Even if no liability is found. All someone has to do is pull the lawsuit against you and your profit margin is toast. I like the idea someone else had... get a quote on the insurance, and pass it along to them, along with a mandatory arbitration clause for anything they buy from you. If they blink, walk away. Nate Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: repeater-builder-dig...@yahoogroups.com repeater-builder-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: repeater-builder-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Off-Topic: Shop liability insurance
*Product* liability would be the responsibility of the manufacturer. Do you REALLY want to assume responsibility should something happen due to a product you sold? (like someone took the antenna off, and got an RF burn from transmitting while sticking their finger in the antenna plug) I really don't think they will be able to get that from anyone. I can see their point for a product used in the manufacture of their products, but that should not apply to tools used for their business. I have to wonder if THEY have liability for their business and their products. Joe M. Scott Zimmerman wrote: Well... They claim they want product liability insurance for any products received on property. Not just installed, but SOLD!! I talked with one of the purchasing agents and they said they can no longer go out and buy a box of bolts at the local hardware store and use those in the manufacturing process since the vendor of those bolts won't insure them.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic (religious or other) posts - please read.
here here i agree, shove the cristianty to where it belongs,,,this is NOT IT yes you got it, im not christian, and i don't give to rats toss for it, say what you like, i DONT CARE shove it up where the clouds meet the sky , this group is for repeaters and the like i love this group for the group that it is, Radio Telephone and the alike not how many friggin watts i can pump out my church thumping door slamming bible bashing Motorola Second edition Gordon ramsey F* you G* the friggin H out of my church if no one likes what i have just said tough luck Harden up get a life, theres more to life that that crap kick me,moderate me, ban i don't care, i like the group for what it is, not what a few idiots want it to be please bring on more Repeater and R/T problems, this is how i better myself, not your way, but ,,,MY WAY,,, Marcus Kevin Custer wrote: I asked once already for everyone to stop the threads where OT posts are concerned - many didn't listen. I'll ask once more - please do NOT post about this OT subject again. If I cannot gain the respect of those continuing to post, I WILL SHUT THE LIST OFF for a few awhile and we'll have a nice vacation. Those continuing with the OT posts will be promptly banned - period. Thank you for your consideration, Kevin Custer List Owner
[Repeater-Builder] Off topic ... a time for God
I am deeply offended by this. No, not the mention that we should take time out for God. I am offended by the barrage of tirades assaulting Lee for daring to mention God. Lee, good for you! Everyone who is a Christian should be a light in their community, drawing men to Jesus. Oh no I mentioned Jesus. I guess I will get a box full of email telling me how offensive I am. Perhaps if I mentioned Buddha or Mohammad, I would be ok. But I dared to mention Jesus. Folks, if you live in the United States, you are living in a distinctively CHRISTIAN NATION. Get over the PC garbage that has polluted and is destroying our GREAT CHRISTIAN NATION. The United States is, after all, ONE NATION UNDER GOD. When our fathers founded this country, it was not founded on some nebulous supreme being, it was founded by Christians who were escaping religious persecution. They came to the New World because they wanted to freely worship Jesus. The original colonists as well as those who wrote the foundational documents of this country knew JESUS CHRIST as their personal LORD and SAVIOUR. To them, the name JESUS CHRIST was a name with power, a name to be honored and revered. The name of Jesus was not offensive and was certainly not a swear word to them. Some believe that if we call ourselves a Christian nation, we are forcing Christ on all people. Nothing could be farther from the truth. As Christians, who acknowledge the Bible as their final authority, we must admit that all people have a free will. If someone decides to follow another religion, that is their prerogative, their choice. There is no reason to be offended by that. It is sad to see such replies from what I thought was basically a good group of people. We can peaceably disagree on doctrine, denomination and even politics. That is our RIGHT as citizens. However, when one person is vilified for his willingness to ask you to take a moment out for God, regardless of who you may call God, there is a serious problem. The problem is not with Lee, the problem is with all of you who are persecuting him (and I suppose, now, me). Now, for what I am sure will be the final straw for some of you. I shall quote some Scripture John 15:25 But this cometh to pass, that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause. They hated Jesus without cause. What was Jesus here for? To sacrifice Himself to save mankind from their sins. There was no reason for them to hate Jesus. He came to save us all. If I were to run headlong into a burning building to rescue someone from the fire, I would be lauded as a hero. If I should happen to get a little burn, the accolades would be greater. Jesus was God in the flesh. As God, who cannot sin, He took the all the sins of all the world upon Him. Imagine the guilt you would hopefully feel if you murdered an innocent child. Aside from the physical torture He endured in the process of the crucifixion, Jesus took all that guilt of all our sins upon Himself for us. Where are His accolades? Why is He not a hero among you? If you would like to discuss this with me, please email me directly. rr...@librtynet.com Sincerely, Randy
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Off topic ... a time for God
I like it. i am not offended at all. just the other day i saw a real still operating drive in movie theater. I am seeing bit's of Real amaerica starting to re emerge amongst the liberal PC garbage and i love it. - Original Message - From: ki4zji rr...@librtynet.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 10:28 AM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Off topic ... a time for God I am deeply offended by this. No, not the mention that we should take time out for God. I am offended by the barrage of tirades assaulting Lee for daring to mention God. Lee, good for you! Everyone who is a Christian should be a light in their community, drawing men to Jesus. Oh no - I mentioned Jesus. I guess I will get a box full of email telling me how offensive I am. Perhaps if I mentioned Buddha or Mohammad, I would be ok. But I dared to mention Jesus. Folks, if you live in the United States, you are living in a distinctively CHRISTIAN NATION. Get over the PC garbage that has polluted and is destroying our GREAT CHRISTIAN NATION. The United States is, after all, ONE NATION UNDER GOD. When our fathers founded this country, it was not founded on some nebulous supreme being, it was founded by Christians who were escaping religious persecution. They came to the New World because they wanted to freely worship Jesus. The original colonists as well as those who wrote the foundational documents of this country knew JESUS CHRIST as their personal LORD and SAVIOUR. To them, the name JESUS CHRIST was a name with power, a name to be honored and revered. The name of Jesus was not offensive and was certainly not a swear word to them. Some believe that if we call ourselves a Christian nation, we are forcing Christ on all people. Nothing could be farther from the truth. As Christians, who acknowledge the Bible as their final authority, we must admit that all people have a free will. If someone decides to follow another religion, that is their prerogative, their choice. There is no reason to be offended by that. It is sad to see such replies from what I thought was basically a good group of people. We can peaceably disagree on doctrine, denomination and even politics. That is our RIGHT as citizens. However, when one person is vilified for his willingness to ask you to take a moment out for God, regardless of who you may call God, there is a serious problem. The problem is not with Lee, the problem is with all of you who are persecuting him (and I suppose, now, me). Now, for what I am sure will be the final straw for some of you. I shall quote some Scripture. John 15:25 But this cometh to pass, that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause. They hated Jesus without cause. What was Jesus here for? To sacrifice Himself to save mankind from their sins. There was no reason for them to hate Jesus. He came to save us all. If I were to run headlong into a burning building to rescue someone from the fire, I would be lauded as a hero. If I should happen to get a little burn, the accolades would be greater. Jesus was God in the flesh. As God, who cannot sin, He took the all the sins of all the world upon Him. Imagine the guilt you would hopefully feel if you murdered an innocent child. Aside from the physical torture He endured in the process of the crucifixion, Jesus took all that guilt of all our sins upon Himself for us. Where are His accolades? Why is He not a hero among you? If you would like to discuss this with me, please email me directly. rr...@librtynet.com Sincerely, Randy
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Off topic ... a time for God
AMEN! -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ki4zji Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 9:29 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Off topic ... a time for God I am deeply offended by this. No, not the mention that we should take time out for God. I am offended by the barrage of tirades assaulting Lee for daring to mention God. Lee, good for you! Everyone who is a Christian should be a light in their community, drawing men to Jesus. Oh no - I mentioned Jesus. I guess I will get a box full of email telling me how offensive I am. Perhaps if I mentioned Buddha or Mohammad, I would be ok. But I dared to mention Jesus. Folks, if you live in the United States, you are living in a distinctively CHRISTIAN NATION. Get over the PC garbage that has polluted and is destroying our GREAT CHRISTIAN NATION. The United States is, after all, ONE NATION UNDER GOD. When our fathers founded this country, it was not founded on some nebulous supreme being, it was founded by Christians who were escaping religious persecution. They came to the New World because they wanted to freely worship Jesus. The original colonists as well as those who wrote the foundational documents of this country knew JESUS CHRIST as their personal LORD and SAVIOUR. To them, the name JESUS CHRIST was a name with power, a name to be honored and revered. The name of Jesus was not offensive and was certainly not a swear word to them. Some believe that if we call ourselves a Christian nation, we are forcing Christ on all people. Nothing could be farther from the truth. As Christians, who acknowledge the Bible as their final authority, we must admit that all people have a free will. If someone decides to follow another religion, that is their prerogative, their choice. There is no reason to be offended by that. It is sad to see such replies from what I thought was basically a good group of people. We can peaceably disagree on doctrine, denomination and even politics. That is our RIGHT as citizens. However, when one person is vilified for his willingness to ask you to take a moment out for God, regardless of who you may call God, there is a serious problem. The problem is not with Lee, the problem is with all of you who are persecuting him (and I suppose, now, me). Now, for what I am sure will be the final straw for some of you. I shall quote some Scripture. John 15:25 But this cometh to pass, that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause. They hated Jesus without cause. What was Jesus here for? To sacrifice Himself to save mankind from their sins. There was no reason for them to hate Jesus. He came to save us all. If I were to run headlong into a burning building to rescue someone from the fire, I would be lauded as a hero. If I should happen to get a little burn, the accolades would be greater. Jesus was God in the flesh. As God, who cannot sin, He took the all the sins of all the world upon Him. Imagine the guilt you would hopefully feel if you murdered an innocent child. Aside from the physical torture He endured in the process of the crucifixion, Jesus took all that guilt of all our sins upon Himself for us. Where are His accolades? Why is He not a hero among you? If you would like to discuss this with me, please email me directly. rr...@librtynet. mailto:rross%40librtynet.com com Sincerely, Randy
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Off topic ... a time for God
The list owner has asked that all this stuff be stopped. Can you folks not understand that ? This list is for assisting with technical issues regarding repeater building. John VE3AMZ - Original Message - From: Rev. Robert P. Chrysafis kc8...@hotmail.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 10:40 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Off topic ... a time for God I like it. i am not offended at all. just the other day i saw a real still operating drive in movie theater. I am seeing bit's of Real amaerica starting to re emerge amongst the liberal PC garbage and i love it. - Original Message - From: ki4zji rr...@librtynet.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 10:28 AM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Off topic ... a time for God I am deeply offended by this. No, not the mention that we should take time out for God. I am offended by the barrage of tirades assaulting Lee for daring to mention God. Lee, good for you! Everyone who is a Christian should be a light in their community, drawing men to Jesus. Oh no - I mentioned Jesus. I guess I will get a box full of email telling me how offensive I am. Perhaps if I mentioned Buddha or Mohammad, I would be ok. But I dared to mention Jesus. Folks, if you live in the United States, you are living in a distinctively CHRISTIAN NATION. Get over the PC garbage that has polluted and is destroying our GREAT CHRISTIAN NATION. The United States is, after all, ONE NATION UNDER GOD. When our fathers founded this country, it was not founded on some nebulous supreme being, it was founded by Christians who were escaping religious persecution. They came to the New World because they wanted to freely worship Jesus. The original colonists as well as those who wrote the foundational documents of this country knew JESUS CHRIST as their personal LORD and SAVIOUR. To them, the name JESUS CHRIST was a name with power, a name to be honored and revered. The name of Jesus was not offensive and was certainly not a swear word to them. Some believe that if we call ourselves a Christian nation, we are forcing Christ on all people. Nothing could be farther from the truth. As Christians, who acknowledge the Bible as their final authority, we must admit that all people have a free will. If someone decides to follow another religion, that is their prerogative, their choice. There is no reason to be offended by that. It is sad to see such replies from what I thought was basically a good group of people. We can peaceably disagree on doctrine, denomination and even politics. That is our RIGHT as citizens. However, when one person is vilified for his willingness to ask you to take a moment out for God, regardless of who you may call God, there is a serious problem. The problem is not with Lee, the problem is with all of you who are persecuting him (and I suppose, now, me). Now, for what I am sure will be the final straw for some of you. I shall quote some Scripture. John 15:25 But this cometh to pass, that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause. They hated Jesus without cause. What was Jesus here for? To sacrifice Himself to save mankind from their sins. There was no reason for them to hate Jesus. He came to save us all. If I were to run headlong into a burning building to rescue someone from the fire, I would be lauded as a hero. If I should happen to get a little burn, the accolades would be greater. Jesus was God in the flesh. As God, who cannot sin, He took the all the sins of all the world upon Him. Imagine the guilt you would hopefully feel if you murdered an innocent child. Aside from the physical torture He endured in the process of the crucifixion, Jesus took all that guilt of all our sins upon Himself for us. Where are His accolades? Why is He not a hero among you? If you would like to discuss this with me, please email me directly. rr...@librtynet.com Sincerely, Randy Yahoo! Groups Links
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Off topic ... a time for God
I thank God for all the technical expertise on this reflector, I am not offended, I feel ashamed that I haven't contributed any of my knowledge, let's take a look at reality and just be thankful we have technical people that believe in God and be thankful for those that don't. I think God would say that's Okay. Jerry W9FS _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David Murman Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 10:42 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Off topic ... a time for God AMEN! -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ki4zji Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 9:29 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Off topic ... a time for God I am deeply offended by this. No, not the mention that we should take time out for God. I am offended by the barrage of tirades assaulting Lee for daring to mention God. Lee, good for you! Everyone who is a Christian should be a light in their community, drawing men to Jesus. Oh no - I mentioned Jesus. I guess I will get a box full of email telling me how offensive I am. Perhaps if I mentioned Buddha or Mohammad, I would be ok. But I dared to mention Jesus. Folks, if you live in the United States, you are living in a distinctively CHRISTIAN NATION. Get over the PC garbage that has polluted and is destroying our GREAT CHRISTIAN NATION. The United States is, after all, ONE NATION UNDER GOD. When our fathers founded this country, it was not founded on some nebulous supreme being, it was founded by Christians who were escaping religious persecution. They came to the New World because they wanted to freely worship Jesus. The original colonists as well as those who wrote the foundational documents of this country knew JESUS CHRIST as their personal LORD and SAVIOUR. To them, the name JESUS CHRIST was a name with power, a name to be honored and revered. The name of Jesus was not offensive and was certainly not a swear word to them. Some believe that if we call ourselves a Christian nation, we are forcing Christ on all people. Nothing could be farther from the truth. As Christians, who acknowledge the Bible as their final authority, we must admit that all people have a free will. If someone decides to follow another religion, that is their prerogative, their choice. There is no reason to be offended by that. It is sad to see such replies from what I thought was basically a good group of people. We can peaceably disagree on doctrine, denomination and even politics. That is our RIGHT as citizens. However, when one person is vilified for his willingness to ask you to take a moment out for God, regardless of who you may call God, there is a serious problem. The problem is not with Lee, the problem is with all of you who are persecuting him (and I suppose, now, me). Now, for what I am sure will be the final straw for some of you. I shall quote some Scripture. John 15:25 But this cometh to pass, that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause. They hated Jesus without cause. What was Jesus here for? To sacrifice Himself to save mankind from their sins. There was no reason for them to hate Jesus. He came to save us all. If I were to run headlong into a burning building to rescue someone from the fire, I would be lauded as a hero. If I should happen to get a little burn, the accolades would be greater. Jesus was God in the flesh. As God, who cannot sin, He took the all the sins of all the world upon Him. Imagine the guilt you would hopefully feel if you murdered an innocent child. Aside from the physical torture He endured in the process of the crucifixion, Jesus took all that guilt of all our sins upon Himself for us. Where are His accolades? Why is He not a hero among you? If you would like to discuss this with me, please email me directly. rr...@librtynet. mailto:rross%40librtynet.com com Sincerely, Randy
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Off topic ... a time for God
On Saturday 21 November 2009 10:28:37 ki4zji wrote: I am deeply offended by this. No, not the mention that we should take time out for God. I am offended by the barrage of tirades assaulting Lee for daring to mention God. *I* am deeply offended by having Christianity stuffed down my throat. I am not a Christian; I have never been--I was not raised as one, and I rather doubt that I will switch in this lifetime. So please take Jesus elsewhere and not a mailing list such as this. --STeve Andre' wb8wsf en82
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Off topic ... a time for God
Hey, there are plenty of religious reflectors. I wonder how receptive they would be if I started posting excerpts from CELWAVE manuals or Motorola user guides? Some one said it earlier...there is a time and place for eveything... - Original Message - From: Jerry W9FS To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 11:02 AM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Off topic ... a time for God I thank God for all the technical expertise on this reflector, I am not offended, I feel ashamed that I haven't contributed any of my knowledge, let's take a look at reality and just be thankful we have technical people that believe in God and be thankful for those that don't. I think God would say that's Okay. Jerry W9FS Of ki4zji Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 9:29 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Off topic ... a time for God
[Repeater-Builder] Off Topic (religious or other) posts - please read.
I asked once already for everyone to stop the threads where OT posts are concerned - many didn't listen. I'll ask once more - please do NOT post about this OT subject again. If I cannot gain the respect of those continuing to post, I WILL SHUT THE LIST OFF for a few awhile and we'll have a nice vacation. Those continuing with the OT posts will be promptly banned - period. Thank you for your consideration, Kevin Custer List Owner
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Off topic ... a time for God
On Sat, 21 Nov 2009, WA3GIN wrote: Hey, there are plenty of religious reflectors. I wonder how receptive they would be if I started posting excerpts from CELWAVE manuals or Motorola user guides? Some one said it earlier...there is a time and place for eveything... That'd only work until you pissed off someone from the Church of EF Johnson -- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR Disinformation Analyst
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic (religious or other) posts - please read.
Kevin, Please don't do that, as it will only hurt everyone else. Rather than shut the entire list down, please just set those who want to continue the thread to CANNOT POST MESSAGES. That will allow on-topic issues to continue and will only hurt those who are responsible. I do have one comment on the freedom of speech aspect some are using to justify their posts of every topic under the sun. Freedom of speech does not apply to private email lists like this one. The list is under the control of the owners and moderators. Thank you, Joe M. Kevin Custer wrote: I asked once already for everyone to stop the threads where OT posts are concerned - many didn't listen. I'll ask once more - please do NOT post about this OT subject again. If I cannot gain the respect of those continuing to post, I WILL SHUT THE LIST OFF for a few awhile and we'll have a nice vacation. Those continuing with the OT posts will be promptly banned - period. Thank you for your consideration, Kevin Custer List Owner Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Off topic ... a time for God
Strangely, I've received more responses to to inadverdantly sending a GOD message, than any of my searches for repeater assistance. 73 de Lee K4LJP On Sat, Nov 21, 2009 at 10:51 AM, John J. Riddell ve3...@earthlink.netwrote: The list owner has asked that all this stuff be stopped. Can you folks not understand that ? This list is for assisting with technical issues regarding repeater building. John VE3AMZ - Original Message - From: Rev. Robert P. Chrysafis kc8...@hotmail.comkc8gpd%40hotmail.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 10:40 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Off topic ... a time for God I like it. i am not offended at all. just the other day i saw a real still operating drive in movie theater. I am seeing bit's of Real amaerica starting to re emerge amongst the liberal PC garbage and i love it. - Original Message - From: ki4zji rr...@librtynet.com rross%40librtynet.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.comRepeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 10:28 AM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Off topic ... a time for God I am deeply offended by this. No, not the mention that we should take time out for God. I am offended by the barrage of tirades assaulting Lee for daring to mention God. Lee, good for you! Everyone who is a Christian should be a light in their community, drawing men to Jesus. Oh no - I mentioned Jesus. I guess I will get a box full of email telling me how offensive I am. Perhaps if I mentioned Buddha or Mohammad, I would be ok. But I dared to mention Jesus. Folks, if you live in the United States, you are living in a distinctively CHRISTIAN NATION. Get over the PC garbage that has polluted and is destroying our GREAT CHRISTIAN NATION. The United States is, after all, ONE NATION UNDER GOD. When our fathers founded this country, it was not founded on some nebulous supreme being, it was founded by Christians who were escaping religious persecution. They came to the New World because they wanted to freely worship Jesus. The original colonists as well as those who wrote the foundational documents of this country knew JESUS CHRIST as their personal LORD and SAVIOUR. To them, the name JESUS CHRIST was a name with power, a name to be honored and revered. The name of Jesus was not offensive and was certainly not a swear word to them. Some believe that if we call ourselves a Christian nation, we are forcing Christ on all people. Nothing could be farther from the truth. As Christians, who acknowledge the Bible as their final authority, we must admit that all people have a free will. If someone decides to follow another religion, that is their prerogative, their choice. There is no reason to be offended by that. It is sad to see such replies from what I thought was basically a good group of people. We can peaceably disagree on doctrine, denomination and even politics. That is our RIGHT as citizens. However, when one person is vilified for his willingness to ask you to take a moment out for God, regardless of who you may call God, there is a serious problem. The problem is not with Lee, the problem is with all of you who are persecuting him (and I suppose, now, me). Now, for what I am sure will be the final straw for some of you. I shall quote some Scripture. John 15:25 But this cometh to pass, that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause. They hated Jesus without cause. What was Jesus here for? To sacrifice Himself to save mankind from their sins. There was no reason for them to hate Jesus. He came to save us all. If I were to run headlong into a burning building to rescue someone from the fire, I would be lauded as a hero. If I should happen to get a little burn, the accolades would be greater. Jesus was God in the flesh. As God, who cannot sin, He took the all the sins of all the world upon Him. Imagine the guilt you would hopefully feel if you murdered an innocent child. Aside from the physical torture He endured in the process of the crucifixion, Jesus took all that guilt of all our sins upon Himself for us. Where are His accolades? Why is He not a hero among you? If you would like to discuss this with me, please email me directly. rr...@librtynet.com rross%40librtynet.com Sincerely, Randy Yahoo! Groups Links -- Always drink upstream from the herd.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Off topic ... a time for God
I debated on whether or not to put my two cents in here since the moderator ended the other thread. What amazes me is how quick some people are offended by the mere mention of God Allah Satan or whoever you choose to believe in (or choose not to believe in). Rather than realize what most likely happend is this person received an email they believed in and sent it to all entries in their address book which included this list. Had the 30 or so people that immediately jumped on the wagon to either defend or condemn the sender had just hit delete we'd have already forgotten about it. I joined this list recently hoping to learn more about repeaters, how they function, and how I could go about making one myself. Has that reason changed because I received an email on the list about God? Of course not. Back in the days when I started on the internet (and BBS's prior to that) when you paid by how much you downloaded I could see getting upset about it. Now even if you're still on (shudder) dial-up you pay a flat rate. If you are so offended by religion then my recommendation would be to stay off the internet before you get an ulcer. The person made a mistake and it's my guess the moderators put them on full moderation even prior to the additional emails. I'll leave you with this to put it all in perspective... *How many list members does it take to replace a radio tube?* One to change the radio tube and to post that the radio tube has been changed. Fourteen to share similar experiences of changing radio tubes and how the radio tube could have been changed differently. Seven to caution about the dangers of changing radio tubes. Seven more to point out spelling/grammar errors in posts about changing radio tubes. Five to flame the spell checkers. Three to correct spelling/grammar flames. Six to argue over whether it's radiotube or radio tube ... Another six to condemn those six as stupid. Fifteen to claim experience in the radio industry and give the correct spelling. Nineteen to post that this group is not about radio tubes and to please take this discussion to a radiotube (or radio tube) forum. Eleven to defend the posting to the group saying that we all use radio tubes and therefore the posts are relevant to this group. Thirty six to debate which method of changing radio tubes is superior, where to buy the best radio tubes, what brand of radio tubes work best for this technique and what brands are faulty. Seven to post URLs where one can see examples of different radio tubes. Four to post that the URLs were posted incorrectly and then post the corrected URL. Three to post about links they found from the URLs that are relevant to this group which makes radio tubes relevant to this group. Thirteen to link all posts to date, quote them in their entirety including all headers and signatures, and add Me too Five to post to the group that they will no longer post because they cannot handle the radio tube controversy. Four to say didn't we go through this already a short time ago? Thirteen to say do a Google search on radio tubes before posting questions about radio tubes. Three to tell a funny story about their cat and a radio tube. AND One group lurker to respond to the original post 6 months from now with something unrelated they found at snopes.com and start it all over again! -mike KG6LMY On Sat, Nov 21, 2009 at 12:52 PM, WA3GIN wa3...@comcast.net wrote: Hey, there are plenty of religious reflectors. I wonder how receptive they would be if I started posting excerpts from CELWAVE manuals or Motorola user guides? Some one said it earlier...there is a time and place for eveything... - Original Message - *From:* Jerry W9FS w9fs_reflec...@comcast.net *To:* Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Saturday, November 21, 2009 11:02 AM *Subject:* RE: [Repeater-Builder] Off topic ... a time for God I thank God for all the technical expertise on this reflector, I am not offended, I feel ashamed that I haven't contributed any of my knowledge, let's take a look at reality and just be thankful we have technical people that believe in God and be thankful for those that don't. I think God would say that's Okay. Jerry W9FS *Of *ki4zji *Sent:* Saturday, November 21, 2009 9:29 AM *To:* Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com *Subject:* [Repeater-Builder] Off topic ... a time for God
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Off topic ... a time for God
There are two drive-in theater close enough to drive to and be back before bed time near me. 1 uses the speaker on a string, the other use FM broadcast and is in 2 track stereo. Am stereo would be cool but my pickup doesn't have a capable am receiver. It does have the RB4 nav radio and an ICOM ic-7000 in it. No am stereo though. ;) Kb0wlf Oh yeah, I get flak all the time. I'm a motorcycle ministry evangelist and a 20wpm xtra class ham. Go figure :) -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater- buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rev. Robert P. Chrysafis Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 9:41 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Off topic ... a time for God I like it. i am not offended at all. just the other day i saw a real still operating drive in movie theater. I am seeing bit's of Real amaerica starting to re emerge amongst the liberal PC garbage and i love it.
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Off topic ... a time for God
Unfortunately, very few receivers are capable of decoding stereo on AM. -- Original Message -- Received: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 05:01:29 PM PST From: Chris Curtis demo...@rollanet.org To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Off topic ... a time for God There are two drive-in theater close enough to drive to and be back before bed time near me. 1 uses the speaker on a string, the other use FM broadcast and is in 2 track stereo. Am stereo would be cool but my pickup doesn't have a capable am receiver. It does have the RB4 nav radio and an ICOM ic-7000 in it. No am stereo though. ;) Kb0wlf Oh yeah, I get flak all the time. I'm a motorcycle ministry evangelist and a 20wpm xtra class ham. Go figure :) -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater- buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rev. Robert P. Chrysafis Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 9:41 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Off topic ... a time for God I like it. i am not offended at all. just the other day i saw a real still operating drive in movie theater. I am seeing bit's of Real amaerica starting to re emerge amongst the liberal PC garbage and i love it.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Off topic ... a time for God
sad considering i have a complete commercial grade 50 watt am stereo broadcast station sitting in racks in my living room just gathering dust. - Original Message - From: JOHN MACKEY jmac...@usa.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 8:12 PM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Off topic ... a time for God Unfortunately, very few receivers are capable of decoding stereo on AM. -- Original Message -- Received: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 05:01:29 PM PST From: Chris Curtis demo...@rollanet.org To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Off topic ... a time for God There are two drive-in theater close enough to drive to and be back before bed time near me. 1 uses the speaker on a string, the other use FM broadcast and is in 2 track stereo. Am stereo would be cool but my pickup doesn't have a capable am receiver. It does have the RB4 nav radio and an ICOM ic-7000 in it. No am stereo though. ;) Kb0wlf Oh yeah, I get flak all the time. I'm a motorcycle ministry evangelist and a 20wpm xtra class ham. Go figure :) -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater- buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rev. Robert P. Chrysafis Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 9:41 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Off topic ... a time for God I like it. i am not offended at all. just the other day i saw a real still operating drive in movie theater. I am seeing bit's of Real amaerica starting to re emerge amongst the liberal PC garbage and i love it. Yahoo! Groups Links
[Repeater-Builder] off topic
I have a kenwood tk-372G I need to program. Have cable and software. Can't get radio into programming mode. Not sure if I'm pushing the right buttons when I turn it on. I also read there may be a diode that needs to be removed. Can any one steer me in the right direction? Thanks, Mike KA2NDW
[Repeater-Builder] off topic: nomic to icom 25a
Working on hooking a rigblaster nomic to a Icom 25a mobile radio for echolink. The Icom key line needs to be pulled to ground to key the radio. The nomic is only making it down to 1.5 volts. It's enough to make the tx led on the radio come on but not down low enough to actual key the radio. I've tried to come up with a circuit to pull it the rest of the way but not coming up with anything that works. Any body been down this road before me? A diagram of something that would work would be nice. Thanks for any help or suggestions. Mike KA2NDW
[Repeater-Builder] Off-topic: Internet controllable rotator and receivers
I am hoping someone can help me avoid re-inventing the wheel. I am looking for an antenna rotator that can be controlled remotely by computer. Additionally, I am looking for an FM broadcast receiver (with HD preferrably) that can be controlled remotely as well. Thanks! James WJ1D
[Repeater-Builder] off topic
Any one know what or how a kenwood tk-710 VHF mobile radio is programmed? I have cables for kenwoods but can't find any software. This is an older radio. Maybe it still has crystals? Google is not my friend this time! Thanks, Mike Ka2NDW
[Repeater-Builder] off topic
Any one know what or how a kenwood tk-710 is programmed? I have cables for kenwoods but can't find any software. Thisis an older radio maybe it is still got crystals? Google is not my friend this time! Thanks, Mike Ka2NDW
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OFF TOPIC - DOD Ends Sale of Expended Military Brass to Remanuctures
At 08:11 PM 03/16/09, you wrote: This post is OFF TOPIC, but if you value your 2nd Amendment rights you should read and act on this as you see fit. I recieved this from a friend and thought it was important enough to make an exception to the rule. Please let this be the only post on this subject on this site as the owner has granted me permission to post this item. I apologize for the length of the post and thank Kevin for his permission. DOD Ends Sale of Expended Military Brass to Remanufacturers* (rest deleted - go see the original message) Supposedly Senator Tester (D-MT) and Senator Baucus (D-MT) did some serious arm twisting and the decision is reversed. Go see http://www.jpfo.org/alerts03/alert20090317.htm If this is true then I think that everyone who values the right to be an armed citizen should send a thank-you email to those two Senators. An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life. - Robert A. Heinlein Worth reading: http://www.exit109.com/~gosta/guncntrl.sht Mike WA6ILQ
[Repeater-Builder] OFF TOPIC - DOD Ends Sale of Expended Military Brass to Remanuctures
This post is OFF TOPIC, but if you value your 2nd Amendment rights you should read and act on this as you see fit. I recieved this from a friend and thought it was important enough to make an exception to the rule. Please let this be the only post on this subject on this site as the owner has granted me permission to post this item. I apologize for the length of the post and thank Kevin for his permission. DOD Ends Sale of Expended Military Brass to Remanufacturers* Sunday, March 15, 2009 /AND SO IT BEGINS.../ We all wondered when it was going to start. When the new administration would make their move against us as gun owners. Oh, everyone got upset about HR45--I'll bet I got over 100 e-mails warning me about this draconian gun registration bill that had been introduced in Congress. I was really glad to see Tom Gresham, host of Gun Talk Radio, an editor, writer, television host on Self-Defense TV, and one of the foremost gun spokespersons, come out and tell everyone to stop worrying about legislation so absolutely over-the-top--it would never get out of committee. Tom said save your energy for when we really need it--don't expend it trying to warn everyone in your e-mail list about legislation that would go nowhere. Now, Tom just interviewed me, and Larry Haynie, owner of Georgia Arms (www.georgia-arms.com http://www.georgia-arms.com/), on Gun Talk (www.guntalk.com http://www.guntalk.com/)--and Tom agrees, now is the time to ...unleash the hounds... by which he means start e-mailing and writing your senators and congressmen. Now it has come clear...now we know what they intend to do. It is an end-run around Congress. They don't need to try to ban guns--they don't need to fight a massive battle to attempt gun registration, or limit assault weapon sales. Nope. All they have to do is limit the amount of ammunition available to the civilian market, and when bullets dry up, guns will be useless. Think we jest? Here are copies of two letters sent to Georgia Arms just Thursday evening--effectively cancelling a contract he had to purchase 30,000 pounds of expended military brass in .223, 7.62mm, and .50caliber: /Dear Valued Customer: Please take a moment to note important changes set forth by the Defense Logistics Agency: Recently it has been determined that fired munitions of all calibers, shapes and sizes have been designated to be Demil code B.As a result and in conjunction with DLA's current Demil code B policy, this notice will serve as official notification which requires Scrap Venture (SV) to implement mutilation as a condition of sale for all sales of fired munitions effective immediately. This notice also requires SV to immediately cease delivery of any fired munitions that have been recently sold or on active term contracts, unless the material has been mutilated prior to sale or SV personnel can attest to the mutilation after delivery. A certificate of destruction is required in either case. Thank you, DOD Surplus 15051 N Kierland Blvd # 300 Scottsdale, AZ 85254 / ** /March 12, 2009 Larry Haynie Georgia Arms PO Box 238 Villa Rica, GA 30180 Re: Event 7084-6200: Dear Larry Haynie, Effective immediately DOD Surplus, LLC, will be implementing new requirements for mutilation of fired shell casings. The new DRMS requirement calls for DOD Surplus personnel to witness the mutilation of the property and sign the Certificate of Destruction. Mutilation of the property can be done at the DRMO, if permitted by the Government, or it may be mutilated at a site chosen by the buyer. Mutilation means that the property will be destroyed to the extent prevents its reuse or reconstruction. DOD Surplus personnel will determine when property has been sufficiently mutilated to meet the requirements of the Government. If you do not agree with the new conditions of your spot sale, please sign the appropriate box provided below stating that you do not agree to the new terms and would like to cancel your purchase effective immediately. If you do agree to the new terms please sign in the appropriate box provided below to acknowledge your understanding and agreement with the new requirements relating to your purchase. Fax the signed document back to (480) 367-1450, emailed responses are not acceptable. Please respond to this request no later than close of business Monday, March 16th, 2009. Sincerely, Government Liquidation. / ** Got that? From now on, remanufacturers of military brass will not be able to buy surplus brass from DOD--actually from Government Liquidators, llc.--the corporation that sells surplus materials for the U.S. government. At least, not in any form recognizable as once-fired brass ammunition. Now all brass ammunition will have to be shredded, and sold as scrap. Georgia
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic
MCH wrote: Dual boot is the only way I know of... What's the best way to do a dual boot? John
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic
I used a program called (I think) Boot Camp. Joe M. John wrote: MCH wrote: Dual boot is the only way I know of... What's the best way to do a dual boot? John Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic
Try using a boot loader that can boot more than one operating system, such as NTLDR, LILO, or GRUB. Best Regards, Chris Carruba (WQIK389) CompuTec Data Systems Custom Written Software, Networking, Forensic Data Recovery From: John johnk.mch...@att.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 5, 2009 3:40:52 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic MCH wrote: Dual boot is the only way I know of... What's the best way to do a dual boot? John
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic
Nate suggested shopping for an old laptop at used computer stores. Another place to check is Thrift Stores. A few years ago I bought a CPU (mini-tower with Win98), keyboard, mouse, and speakers for $7 at a Salvation Army Thrift Store. It worked just fine. Okay, I'll admit that I did have to replace the real-time clock battery. grin It's still being used as a packet terminal at one of our remote ECCs. 73 and aloha, Eric KH6CQ --- On Sat, 1/17/09, Nate Duehr n...@natetech.com wrote: From: Nate Duehr n...@natetech.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, January 17, 2009, 8:29 PM On Jan 17, 2009, at 11:17 PM, kh6...@netscape. net wrote: Thanks for this Off Topic. In the days of 386's, 486's, etc. desktops notebooks had RS-232c ports. You can still get motherboards with serial and parallel ports, but most mass market machines don't have them anymore. What can be done with the XP notebooks, like mine, with no Db-9, RS-232c ports, all that is available is USB ports? USB to serial converters for programs that understand them. Late- model radios from today's manufacturers program just fine with that. But most of us here are using older stuff, built in a time when the programming software needed raw hardware access to the serial ports. I am hoping to get an old dest top with Db-9, RS-232c working with my old Windows 3.1 software. This will mean taking this desk top to the repeater site, to program the repeater controller. Get an old laptop instead. Even if you can't keep the battery alive, it's a lot more convenient to lug an older heavy laptop around, and then it comes with its own keyboard monitor as a bonus. Old laptops that will run DOS/Win 3.11 can often be found for far under $100 at used computer shops. They're ancient and the shop doesn't want them. Often it will cost the shop more to pay to recycle/dispose of them properly, than to give them away to you, if you find the right junk dealers. I have a USB to Db-9, RS-232c adapter w/ a cd software. If I could get a Windows AT program to work with XP. It probably won't work. If the program knows how to access high COM ports (unlikely) and was not talking directly to the serial hardware (also unlikely), then maybe. I await your solutions. A cheap old laptop loaded with DOS/Win 3.11/Win 98/whatever you need... multiple boot it with multiple partitions if you like even, that you set aside JUST for programming old radios. A bonus would be to find a twin for it and image the hard drive, and have a spare. -- Nate Duehr, WY0X n...@natetech. com
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic
We think that *IF* we can find a way to load Win98 via floppy, we can get it to recognize the drive, but for now, the CD is unusable. Problem is, Win98 is 200+ MB... That's over 200 floppies!!! *OR* we need the Win95 device driver for the CD drive. You have two easy alternatives: - Take the HD off and use an external HD enclosure to load up the disks of W98 in a dir. I usually create a dir called win98 and copy all files there. In www.dealextreme.com you can find an enclousre for less than 10 dollars. - Use a parallel laplink cable to load the files thru the parallel port (faster than serial) Does the laptop have a USB port?
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic
Taken off-list to private reply... -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of Alexandre Souza We think that *IF* we can find a way to load Win98 via floppy, we can get it to recognize the drive, but for now, the CD is unusable. Problem is, Win98 is 200+ MB... That's over 200 floppies!!! *OR* we need the Win95 device driver for the CD drive. You have two easy alternatives: - Take the HD off and use an external HD enclosure to load up the disks of W98 in a dir. I usually create a dir called win98 and copy all files there. In www.dealextreme.com you can find an enclousre for less than 10 dollars. - Use a parallel laplink cable to load the files thru the parallel port (faster than serial) Does the laptop have a USB port?
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic
Or you can try a local hamfest - there are usually older laptops that show up there, too... some for as little as $10 - $20! The biggest problem I have run into so far is loading Win98 onto an older laptop with only a floppy drive... A friend of mine picked up a laptop with an interchangeable drive bay, and then bought a CD Drive for the laptop. Problem is: Win95 (loaded on the machine) won't recognize the drive, even though it IS seen and recognized by the BIOS. We think that *IF* we can find a way to load Win98 via floppy, we can get it to recognize the drive, but for now, the CD is unusable. Problem is, Win98 is 200+ MB... That's over 200 floppies!!! *OR* we need the Win95 device driver for the CD drive. Sorry for going even further off topic... Mark - N9WYS -Original Message- (snip) I am hoping to get an old dest top with Db-9, RS-232c working with my old Windows 3.1 software. This will mean taking this desk top to the repeater site, to program the repeater controller. Get an old laptop instead. Even if you can't keep the battery alive, it's a lot more convenient to lug an older heavy laptop around, and then it comes with its own keyboard monitor as a bonus. Old laptops that will run DOS/Win 3.11 can often be found for far under $100 at used computer shops. They're ancient and the shop doesn't want them. Often it will cost the shop more to pay to recycle/dispose of them properly, than to give them away to you, if you find the right junk dealers. I have a USB to Db-9, RS-232c adapter w/ a cd software. If I could get a Windows AT program to work with XP. A cheap old laptop loaded with DOS/Win 3.11/Win 98/whatever you need... multiple boot it with multiple partitions if you like even, that you set aside JUST for programming old radios. A bonus would be to find a twin for it and image the hard drive, and have a spare.
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic
you have several options , check if the machine is able to load an external usb drive . if not investigate one of the linux distro which can , perhaps puppy and boot in small form floppy , if it has a scsi port then it's easy or you might consider installing dos and one of the older overlays which prevelant years go when I started out . Basucally buy the machine and let us no .. I am sure there is a simple solution .maybe even adding a cd drive and dos drivers then load the files from there... To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com From: n9...@ameritech.net Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 08:26:14 -0600 Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic Or you can try a local hamfest - there are usually older laptops that show up there, too... some for as little as $10 - $20! The biggest problem I have run into so far is loading Win98 onto an older laptop with only a floppy drive... A friend of mine picked up a laptop with an interchangeable drive bay, and then bought a CD Drive for the laptop. Problem is: Win95 (loaded on the machine) won't recognize the drive, even though it IS seen and recognized by the BIOS. We think that *IF* we can find a way to load Win98 via floppy, we can get it to recognize the drive, but for now, the CD is unusable. Problem is, Win98 is 200+ MB... That's over 200 floppies!!! *OR* we need the Win95 device driver for the CD drive. Sorry for going even further off topic... Mark - N9WYS -Original Message- (snip) I am hoping to get an old dest top with Db-9, RS-232c working with my old Windows 3.1 software. This will mean taking this desk top to the repeater site, to program the repeater controller. Get an old laptop instead. Even if you can't keep the battery alive, it's a lot more convenient to lug an older heavy laptop around, and then it comes with its own keyboard monitor as a bonus. Old laptops that will run DOS/Win 3.11 can often be found for far under $100 at used computer shops. They're ancient and the shop doesn't want them. Often it will cost the shop more to pay to recycle/dispose of them properly, than to give them away to you, if you find the right junk dealers. I have a USB to Db-9, RS-232c adapter w/ a cd software. If I could get a Windows AT program to work with XP. A cheap old laptop loaded with DOS/Win 3.11/Win 98/whatever you need... multiple boot it with multiple partitions if you like even, that you set aside JUST for programming old radios. A bonus would be to find a twin for it and image the hard drive, and have a spare. _ Messenger's gift to you! Download free emoticons today! http://livelife.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=669758
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic
Thanks for all the suggestions and solutions. I have found the solution I am going to use and appreciate all the help. If you want to send me any other suggestions please email me off the list. Thanks, Mike Colorado Telecom, L.L.C Mike Mullarkey 6886 Sage Ave Firestone, Co 80504 303-954-9695 Home 303-954-9693 Home Office Fax 303-718-8052 Cellular _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Barry Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2009 7:57 AM To: repeater-builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic you have several options , check if the machine is able to load an external usb drive . if not investigate one of the linux distro which can , perhaps puppy and boot in small form floppy , if it has a scsi port then it's easy or you might consider installing dos and one of the older overlays which prevelant years go when I started out . Basucally buy the machine and let us no .. I am sure there is a simple solution .maybe even adding a cd drive and dos drivers then load the files from there... _ To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com From: n9...@ameritech.net Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 08:26:14 -0600 Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic Or you can try a local hamfest - there are usually older laptops that show up there, too... some for as little as $10 - $20! The biggest problem I have run into so far is loading Win98 onto an older laptop with only a floppy drive... A friend of mine picked up a laptop with an interchangeable drive bay, and then bought a CD Drive for the laptop. Problem is: Win95 (loaded on the machine) won't recognize the drive, even though it IS seen and recognized by the BIOS. We think that *IF* we can find a way to load Win98 via floppy, we can get it to recognize the drive, but for now, the CD is unusable. Problem is, Win98 is 200+ MB... That's over 200 floppies!!! *OR* we need the Win95 device driver for the CD drive. Sorry for going even further off topic... Mark - N9WYS -Original Message- (snip) I am hoping to get an old dest top with Db-9, RS-232c working with my old Windows 3.1 software. This will mean taking this desk top to the repeater site, to program the repeater controller. Get an old laptop instead. Even if you can't keep the battery alive, it's a lot more convenient to lug an older heavy laptop around, and then it comes with its own keyboard monitor as a bonus. Old laptops that will run DOS/Win 3.11 can often be found for far under $100 at used computer shops. They're ancient and the shop doesn't want them. Often it will cost the shop more to pay to recycle/dispose of them properly, than to give them away to you, if you find the right junk dealers. I have a USB to Db-9, RS-232c adapter w/ a cd software. If I could get a Windows AT program to work with XP. A cheap old laptop loaded with DOS/Win 3.11/Win 98/whatever you need... multiple boot it with multiple partitions if you like even, that you set aside JUST for programming old radios. A bonus would be to find a twin for it and image the hard drive, and have a spare. _ Download free Holiday emoticons today! Messenger's http://livelife.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=669758%20 gift to you!
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic
Just out of curiosity, what was your solution? Joe M. Mike Mullarkey wrote: Thanks for all the suggestions and solutions. I have found the solution I am going to use and appreciate all the help. If you want to send me any other suggestions please email me off the list. Thanks, Mike Colorado Telecom, L.L.C Mike Mullarkey 6886 Sage Ave Firestone, Co 80504 303-954-9695 Home 303-954-9693 Home Office Fax 303-718-8052 Cellular *From:* Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Barry *Sent:* Sunday, January 18, 2009 7:57 AM *To:* repeater-builder@yahoogroups.com *Subject:* RE: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic you have several options , check if the machine is able to load an external usb drive . if not investigate one of the linux distro which can , perhaps puppy and boot in small form floppy , if it has a scsi port then it's easy or you might consider installing dos and one of the older overlays which prevelant years go when I started out . Basucally buy the machine and let us no .. I am sure there is a simple solution .maybe even adding a cd drive and dos drivers then load the files from there... To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com From: n9...@ameritech.net Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 08:26:14 -0600 Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic Or you can try a local hamfest - there are usually older laptops that show up there, too... some for as little as $10 - $20! The biggest problem I have run into so far is loading Win98 onto an older laptop with only a floppy drive... A friend of mine picked up a laptop with an interchangeable drive bay, and then bought a CD Drive for the laptop. Problem is: Win95 (loaded on the machine) won't recognize the drive, even though it IS seen and recognized by the BIOS. We think that *IF* we can find a way to load Win98 via floppy, we can get it to recognize the drive, but for now, the CD is unusable. Problem is, Win98 is 200+ MB... That's over 200 floppies!!! *OR* we need the Win95 device driver for the CD drive. Sorry for going even further off topic... Mark - N9WYS -Original Message- (snip) I am hoping to get an old dest top with Db-9, RS-232c working with my old Windows 3.1 software. This will mean taking this desk top to the repeater site, to program the repeater controller. Get an old laptop instead. Even if you can't keep the battery alive, it's a lot more convenient to lug an older heavy laptop around, and then it comes with its own keyboard monitor as a bonus. Old laptops that will run DOS/Win 3.11 can often be found for far under $100 at used computer shops. They're ancient and the shop doesn't want them. Often it will cost the shop more to pay to recycle/dispose of them properly, than to give them away to you, if you find the right junk dealers. I have a USB to Db-9, RS-232c adapter w/ a cd software. If I could get a Windows AT program to work with XP. A cheap old laptop loaded with DOS/Win 3.11/Win 98/whatever you need... multiple boot it with multiple partitions if you like even, that you set aside JUST for programming old radios. A bonus would be to find a twin for it and image the hard drive, and have a spare. Download free Holiday emoticons today! Messenger's gift to you! http://livelife.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=669758%20
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic
There seems to be a bootable cd that will allow to boot into a DOS prompt. I hope this works. Colorado Telecom, L.L.C Mike Mullarkey 6886 Sage Ave Firestone, Co 80504 303-954-9695 Home 303-954-9693 Home Office Fax 303-718-8052 Cellular _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of MCH Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2009 8:05 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic Just out of curiosity, what was your solution? Joe M. Mike Mullarkey wrote: Thanks for all the suggestions and solutions. I have found the solution I am going to use and appreciate all the help. If you want to send me any other suggestions please email me off the list. Thanks, Mike Colorado Telecom, L.L.C Mike Mullarkey 6886 Sage Ave Firestone, Co 80504 303-954-9695 Home 303-954-9693 Home Office Fax 303-718-8052 Cellular -- *From:* Repeater-Builder@ mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater-Builder@ mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com yahoogroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Barry *Sent:* Sunday, January 18, 2009 7:57 AM *To:* repeater-builder@ mailto:repeater-builder%40yahoogroups.com yahoogroups.com *Subject:* RE: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic you have several options , check if the machine is able to load an external usb drive . if not investigate one of the linux distro which can , perhaps puppy and boot in small form floppy , if it has a scsi port then it's easy or you might consider installing dos and one of the older overlays which prevelant years go when I started out . Basucally buy the machine and let us no .. I am sure there is a simple solution .maybe even adding a cd drive and dos drivers then load the files from there... -- To: Repeater-Builder@ mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com yahoogroups.com From: n9...@ameritech. mailto:n9wys%40ameritech.net net Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 08:26:14 -0600 Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic Or you can try a local hamfest - there are usually older laptops that show up there, too... some for as little as $10 - $20! The biggest problem I have run into so far is loading Win98 onto an older laptop with only a floppy drive... A friend of mine picked up a laptop with an interchangeable drive bay, and then bought a CD Drive for the laptop. Problem is: Win95 (loaded on the machine) won't recognize the drive, even though it IS seen and recognized by the BIOS. We think that *IF* we can find a way to load Win98 via floppy, we can get it to recognize the drive, but for now, the CD is unusable. Problem is, Win98 is 200+ MB... That's over 200 floppies!!! *OR* we need the Win95 device driver for the CD drive. Sorry for going even further off topic... Mark - N9WYS -Original Message- (snip) I am hoping to get an old dest top with Db-9, RS-232c working with my old Windows 3.1 software. This will mean taking this desk top to the repeater site, to program the repeater controller. Get an old laptop instead. Even if you can't keep the battery alive, it's a lot more convenient to lug an older heavy laptop around, and then it comes with its own keyboard monitor as a bonus. Old laptops that will run DOS/Win 3.11 can often be found for far under $100 at used computer shops. They're ancient and the shop doesn't want them. Often it will cost the shop more to pay to recycle/dispose of them properly, than to give them away to you, if you find the right junk dealers. I have a USB to Db-9, RS-232c adapter w/ a cd software. If I could get a Windows AT program to work with XP. A cheap old laptop loaded with DOS/Win 3.11/Win 98/whatever you need... multiple boot it with multiple partitions if you like even, that you set aside JUST for programming old radios. A bonus would be to find a twin for it and image the hard drive, and have a spare. -- Download free Holiday emoticons today! Messenger's gift to you! http://livelife. http://livelife.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=669758%20 ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=669758%20
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic
Nope - this is an OLD machine. No USB, no SCSI. What I am really needing to find are the DOS/Win95 device drivers for the CD drive. It's an NEC Versa 4080h. Just so we can keep this sorta on topic, the primary purpose for this laptop is to run old Motorola and other radio programming software. Mark - N9WYS From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of Barry you have several options , check if the machine is able to load an external usb drive . if not investigate one of the linux distro which can , perhaps puppy and boot in small form floppy , if it has a scsi port then it's easy or you might consider installing dos and one of the older overlays which prevelant years go when I started out . Basucally buy the machine and let us no .. I am sure there is a simple solution .maybe even adding a cd drive and dos drivers then load the files from there... _ To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com From: n9...@ameritech.net Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 08:26:14 -0600 Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic Or you can try a local hamfest - there are usually older laptops that show up there, too... some for as little as $10 - $20! The biggest problem I have run into so far is loading Win98 onto an older laptop with only a floppy drive... A friend of mine picked up a laptop with an interchangeable drive bay, and then bought a CD Drive for the laptop. Problem is: Win95 (loaded on the machine) won't recognize the drive, even though it IS seen and recognized by the BIOS. We think that *IF* we can find a way to load Win98 via floppy, we can get it to recognize the drive, but for now, the CD is unusable. Problem is, Win98 is 200+ MB... That's over 200 floppies!!! *OR* we need the Win95 device driver for the CD drive. Sorry for going even further off topic... Mark - N9WYS -Original Message- (snip) I am hoping to get an old dest top with Db-9, RS-232c working with my old Windows 3.1 software. This will mean taking this desk top to the repeater site, to program the repeater controller. Get an old laptop instead. Even if you can't keep the battery alive, it's a lot more convenient to lug an older heavy laptop around, and then it comes with its own keyboard monitor as a bonus. Old laptops that will run DOS/Win 3.11 can often be found for far under $100 at used computer shops. They're ancient and the shop doesn't want them. Often it will cost the shop more to pay to recycle/dispose of them properly, than to give them away to you, if you find the right junk dealers. I have a USB to Db-9, RS-232c adapter w/ a cd software. If I could get a Windows AT program to work with XP. A cheap old laptop loaded with DOS/Win 3.11/Win 98/whatever you need... multiple boot it with multiple partitions if you like even, that you set aside JUST for programming old radios. A bonus would be to find a twin for it and image the hard drive, and have a spare. _ Download free Holiday emoticons today! Messenger's http://livelife.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=669758%20 gift to you! No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.8/1899 - Release Date: 1/17/2009 5:50 PM image001.jpg
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic
- Original Message - From: Mark n9...@ameritech.net The biggest problem I have run into so far is loading Win98 onto an older laptop with only a floppy drive... A friend of mine picked up a laptop with an interchangeable drive bay, and then bought a CD Drive for the laptop. Problem is: Win95 (loaded on the machine) won't recognize the drive, even though it IS seen and recognized by the BIOS. I don't have the Win95 driver disk but I know that there was a version of Win98, SP1, that was on floppies. I also know that you could have played with NT 4.0 on floppies. The only problem with that is that you have to know what you have, and then set it up accordingly. But that could've worked, too. I also have an old laptop that I need to play with (also a bad BIOS battery) that I want to program things with, too. Anyway, I hear you got a solution (bootable Win98) so that should take of ya, too. Good luck. RayKBØSTN
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic
--- On Sun, 1/18/09, Ray Brown kb0...@sbcglobal.net wrote: From: Ray Brown kb0...@sbcglobal.net Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, January 18, 2009, 6:03 PM - Original Message - From: Mark n9...@ameritech.net The biggest problem I have run into so far is loading Win98 onto an older laptop with only a floppy drive... A friend of mine picked up a laptop with an interchangeable drive bay, and then bought a CD Drive for the laptop. Problem is: Win95 (loaded on the machine) won't recognize the drive, even though it IS seen and recognized by the BIOS. I don't have the Win95 driver disk but I know that there was a version of Win98, SP1, that was on floppies. I also know that you could have played with NT 4.0 on floppies. The only problem with that is that you have to know what you have, and then set it up accordingly. But that could've worked, too. I also have an old laptop that I need to play with (also a bad BIOS battery) that I want to program things with, too. Anyway, I hear you got a solution (bootable Win98) so that should take of ya, too. Good luck. RayKBØSTN Windows 95 came on about 23 floppies and 98 came on about 35 to 38 floppies.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic
yes get Vitural PC and load dos 6.22 it works fine. - Original Message - From: Ken Arck To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2009 11:30 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic At 07:59 PM 1/17/2009, Mike Mullarkey wrote: Does anybody know if one can get a DOS program to run on Windows XP. If it's a RSS program, it won't run inside a DOS window from XP and you need to boot into DOS at powerup (make a bootable CD to do this). Otherwise if the program you want to run WILL run inside a DOS window from within XP, just click START RUN and at the C:/ prompt, do what you need. Ken -- President and CTO - Arcom Communications Makers of repeater controllers and accessories. http://www.arcomcontrollers.com/ Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave and we offer complete repeater packages! AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000 http://www.irlp.net We don't just make 'em. We use 'em!
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic
So install dos and the cd drivers that come with it , the rest is easy To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com From: n9...@ameritech.net Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 09:35:26 -0600 Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic Nope – this is an OLD machine… No USB, no SCSI. What I am really needing to find are the DOS/Win95 device drivers for the CD drive. It’s an NEC Versa 4080h. Just so we can keep this “sorta” on topic, the primary purpose for this laptop is to run old Motorola and other radio programming software. Mark – N9WYS From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of Barry you have several options , check if the machine is able to load an external usb drive . if not investigate one of the linux distro which can , perhaps puppy and boot in small form floppy , if it has a scsi port then it's easy or you might consider installing dos and one of the older overlays which prevelant years go when I started out . Basucally buy the machine and let us no .. I am sure there is a simple solution .maybe even adding a cd drive and dos drivers then load the files from there... To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com From: n9...@ameritech.net Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 08:26:14 -0600 Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic Or you can try a local hamfest - there are usually older laptops that show up there, too... some for as little as $10 - $20! The biggest problem I have run into so far is loading Win98 onto an older laptop with only a floppy drive... A friend of mine picked up a laptop with an interchangeable drive bay, and then bought a CD Drive for the laptop. Problem is: Win95 (loaded on the machine) won't recognize the drive, even though it IS seen and recognized by the BIOS. We think that *IF* we can find a way to load Win98 via floppy, we can get it to recognize the drive, but for now, the CD is unusable. Problem is, Win98 is 200+ MB... That's over 200 floppies!!! *OR* we need the Win95 device driver for the CD drive. Sorry for going even further off topic... Mark - N9WYS -Original Message- (snip) I am hoping to get an old dest top with Db-9, RS-232c working with my old Windows 3.1 software. This will mean taking this desk top to the repeater site, to program the repeater controller. Get an old laptop instead. Even if you can't keep the battery alive, it's a lot more convenient to lug an older heavy laptop around, and then it comes with its own keyboard monitor as a bonus. Old laptops that will run DOS/Win 3.11 can often be found for far under $100 at used computer shops. They're ancient and the shop doesn't want them. Often it will cost the shop more to pay to recycle/dispose of them properly, than to give them away to you, if you find the right junk dealers. I have a USB to Db-9, RS-232c adapter w/ a cd software. If I could get a Windows AT program to work with XP. A cheap old laptop loaded with DOS/Win 3.11/Win 98/whatever you need... multiple boot it with multiple partitions if you like even, that you set aside JUST for programming old radios. A bonus would be to find a twin for it and image the hard drive, and have a spare. Download free Holiday emoticons today! Messenger's gift to you! No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.8/1899 - Release Date: 1/17/2009 5:50 PM _ Net yourself a bargain. Find great deals on eBay. http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Frover%2Eebay%2Ecom%2Frover%2F1%2F705%2D10129%2D5668%2D323%2F4%3Fid%3D10_t=763807330_r=hotmailTAGLINES_m=EXT
[Repeater-Builder] Off Topic
Does anybody know if one can get a DOS program to run on Windows XP. Mike K7PFJ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic
Dual boot is the only way I know of... Joe M. Mike Mullarkey wrote: Does anybody know if one can get a DOS program to run on Windows XP. Mike K7PFJ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic
BTW, if this is for Motorola programming, XP does not allow direct access to the serial port. Joe M. Mike Mullarkey wrote: Does anybody know if one can get a DOS program to run on Windows XP. Mike K7PFJ
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic
If you want access to any ports it's not doable . you need to boot to dos or xp or one of the cd's that allows you to do so To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com From: k7...@comcast.net Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 20:59:46 -0700 Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic Does anybody know if one can get a DOS program to run on Windows XP. Mike K7PFJ _ Holiday cheer from Messenger. Download free emoticons today! http://livelife.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=669758
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic
At 07:59 PM 1/17/2009, Mike Mullarkey wrote: Does anybody know if one can get a DOS program to run on Windows XP. If it's a RSS program, it won't run inside a DOS window from XP and you need to boot into DOS at powerup (make a bootable CD to do this). Otherwise if the program you want to run WILL run inside a DOS window from within XP, just click START RUN and at the C:/ prompt, do what you need. Ken -- President and CTO - Arcom Communications Makers of repeater controllers and accessories. http://www.arcomcontrollers.com/ Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave and we offer complete repeater packages! AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000 http://www.irlp.net We don't just make 'em. We use 'em!
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic
At 07:59 PM 1/17/2009, Mike Mullarkey wrote: just click START RUN and at the C:/ prompt, do what you need. ---Ooops.. that should be START RUN, then type the word command in the text field and hit ENTER. That will open up a DOS shell for you Ken -- President and CTO - Arcom Communications Makers of repeater controllers and accessories. http://www.arcomcontrollers.com/ Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave and we offer complete repeater packages! AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000 http://www.irlp.net We don't just make 'em. We use 'em!
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic
However... As the previous replies have stated, while you may be able to open and run the DOS application in XP, you won't be able to do anything with regards to controlling external devices via serial, such as a radio in the case of RSS... XP has some rather nasty issues with typing the serial ports for Windows-only applications... 73s and good luck, AJ, K6LOR On Sat, Jan 17, 2009 at 9:30 PM, Ken Arck ah...@ah6le.net wrote: At 07:59 PM 1/17/2009, Mike Mullarkey wrote: Does anybody know if one can get a DOS program to run on Windows XP. If it's a RSS program, it won't run inside a DOS window from XP and you need to boot into DOS at powerup (make a bootable CD to do this). Otherwise if the program you want to run WILL run inside a DOS window from within XP, just click START RUN and at the C:/ prompt, do what you need. Ken -- President and CTO - Arcom Communications Makers of repeater controllers and accessories. http://www.arcomcontrollers.com/ Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave and we offer complete repeater packages! AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000 http://www.irlp.net We don't just make 'em. We use 'em!
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic
On Jan 17, 2009, at 9:31 PM, Ken Arck wrote: At 07:59 PM 1/17/2009, Mike Mullarkey wrote: just click START RUN and at the C:/ prompt, do what you need. ---Ooops.. that should be START RUN, then type the word command in the text field and hit ENTER. That will open up a DOS shell for you Or cmd if you're talking about some versions of Windows... -- Nate Duehr, WY0X n...@natetech.com
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic
Thanks for this Off Topic. In the days of 386's, 486's, etc. desktops notebooks had RS-232c ports. ? What can be done with the XP notebooks, like mine, with no Db-9, RS-232c ports, all that is available is USB ports? I am hoping to get an old dest top with Db-9, RS-232c working with my old Windows 3.1 software. This will mean taking this desk top to the repeater site, to program the repeater controller. I have a USB to Db-9, RS-232c adapter w/ a cd software. If I could get a Windows AT program to work with XP. I await your solutions. 73's Thanks. Jim??? Kh6jkg. -Original Message- From: AJ aj.grant...@gmail.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 6:32 pm Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic However... As the previous replies have stated, while you may be able to open and run the DOS application in XP, you won't be able to do anything with regards to controlling external devices via serial, such as a radio in the case of RSS... XP has some rather nasty issues with typing the serial ports for Windows-only applications... 73s and good luck, AJ, K6LOR On Sat, Jan 17, 2009 at 9:30 PM, Ken Arck ah...@ah6le.net wrote: At 07:59 PM 1/17/2009, Mike Mullarkey wrote: Does anybody know if one can get a DOS program to run on Windows XP. ? If it's a RSS program, it won't run inside a DOS window from XP and you need to boot into DOS at powerup (make a bootable CD to do this). Otherwise if the program you want to run WILL run inside a DOS window from within XP, just click START RUN and at the C:/ prompt, do what you need. Ken -- President and CTO - Arcom Communications Makers of repeater controllers and accessories. http://www.arcomcontrollers.com/ Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave and we offer complete repeater packages! AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000 http://www.irlp.net We don't just make 'em. We use 'em!
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic
On Jan 17, 2009, at 11:17 PM, kh6...@netscape.net wrote: Thanks for this Off Topic. In the days of 386's, 486's, etc. desktops notebooks had RS-232c ports. You can still get motherboards with serial and parallel ports, but most mass market machines don't have them anymore. What can be done with the XP notebooks, like mine, with no Db-9, RS-232c ports, all that is available is USB ports? USB to serial converters for programs that understand them. Late- model radios from today's manufacturers program just fine with that. But most of us here are using older stuff, built in a time when the programming software needed raw hardware access to the serial ports. I am hoping to get an old dest top with Db-9, RS-232c working with my old Windows 3.1 software. This will mean taking this desk top to the repeater site, to program the repeater controller. Get an old laptop instead. Even if you can't keep the battery alive, it's a lot more convenient to lug an older heavy laptop around, and then it comes with its own keyboard monitor as a bonus. Old laptops that will run DOS/Win 3.11 can often be found for far under $100 at used computer shops. They're ancient and the shop doesn't want them. Often it will cost the shop more to pay to recycle/dispose of them properly, than to give them away to you, if you find the right junk dealers. I have a USB to Db-9, RS-232c adapter w/ a cd software. If I could get a Windows AT program to work with XP. It probably won't work. If the program knows how to access high COM ports (unlikely) and was not talking directly to the serial hardware (also unlikely), then maybe. I await your solutions. A cheap old laptop loaded with DOS/Win 3.11/Win 98/whatever you need... multiple boot it with multiple partitions if you like even, that you set aside JUST for programming old radios. A bonus would be to find a twin for it and image the hard drive, and have a spare. -- Nate Duehr, WY0X n...@natetech.com
[Repeater-Builder] Off Topic -- Tektronix 475 Oscilloscope
Can anyone tell me how to get this oscilloscope out of the case? When I unplugged it from one outlet and plugged it into another, it apparently became shorted someplace beyond the fuse. The fuse blew, and a replacement blew. I suspect a short in the power supply, and I would like to find and fix it. I removed the back trim. Should the front face and innards slide forward out of the case? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. John Transue AF4PD
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic -- Tektronix 475 Oscilloscope
Usually you remove the back panel, i.e. the rubber feet and cover on the back end of the unit. There may be additional screws under that, holding the outer cover to the chassis. They'd probably be near the corners. Then the outer skin should slide backwards, leaving you with the guts coming out the front. On the larger scopes, the outer skin had a left and right half. You should be able to find some photos of the inside of the unit. Perhaps one will include the outer cover partially removed. Of course, this is very general and your mileage may vary. Bob M. == --- On Thu, 9/25/08, John Transue [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: John Transue [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic -- Tektronix 475 Oscilloscope To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, September 25, 2008, 2:56 PM Can anyone tell me how to get this oscilloscope out of the case? When I unplugged it from one outlet and plugged it into another, it apparently became shorted someplace beyond the fuse. The fuse blew, and a replacement blew. I suspect a short in the power supply, and I would like to find and fix it. I removed the back trim. Should the front face and innards slide forward out of the case? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. John Transue AF4PD
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic -- Tektronix 475 Oscilloscope
This link may be better info http://bama.edebris.com/manuals/tek/475 Rob - KS4EC From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Transue Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 2:57 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic -- Tektronix 475 Oscilloscope Can anyone tell me how to get this oscilloscope out of the case? When I unplugged it from one outlet and plugged it into another, it apparently became shorted someplace beyond the fuse. The fuse blew, and a replacement blew. I suspect a short in the power supply, and I would like to find and fix it. I removed the back trim. Should the front face and innards slide forward out of the case? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. John Transue AF4PD Since 1974, the award-winning Alpert JFCS has helped families of all faiths throughout most of Palm Beach County, FL, via counseling, seniors services, residences for the disabled, mentoring children, support groups and a lot more. SOLUTIONS FOR LIVING www.JFCSonline.com Please take note of our new website and E-Mail Addresses. Please update your contacts ASAP. NOTICE: This e-mail message and all attachments transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of the addressee and may contain legally privileged and confidential information. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying, or other use of this message or its attachments is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately by replying to this message and please delete it from your computer. image001.jpgimage002.jpg
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic -- Tektronix 475 Oscilloscope
Fred, Thanks. I will look for that transistor if I get in. I appreciate the advice. John -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Fred Townsend Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 3:49 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Cc: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic -- Tektronix 475 Oscilloscope John I will let others tell you how to get the scope out of the case. What I will tell you about is a defect in the early model 465 and 475 power supplies. After you check out the fuses and normal power checks you will want to check for a shorted transistor. In the scope's internal power supply is a TO3 transistor with a Tek part number on it. The manual says it's a custom part, hence the special part number. You may be able to order the transistor from Tek but their part may fail again. The permanent fix is to replace the transistor with a steel case 2N3055. I used a RCA part but I'm not sure they are available. It is very important not use a Motorola (Onsemi) or any other aluminum case part. 73 de AE6QL, Fred townsend
[Repeater-Builder] OFF TOPIC Re: New 6M Repeater in Central NH
OFF TOPIC Thanks Kevin, but after a day or so to think it over, I have come to the conclusion that what I had intended to say would serve no useful purpose, just as Don pointed out. I will say that amateur operator class means nothing, in my opinion, and I tend to view someone who tries too hard to make it known with considerable suspicion. Enough said, back to the Good Stuff. Tom --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Kevin Custer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tom wrote: Dear Repeater-Builder administrators: I've got a few things to say along the lines of this post. They are not only off topic, they are clearly discouraged in the intro. page of the site: HOWEVER, I believe they now need to be said. In spite of this, I will respectfully defer to your judgement on this. Should I respond on this thread, begin a new thread or refrain from comment altogether? Okay - post reply - plainly mark it OFF TOPIC in the subject line and the body of the text. Kevin Custer
[Repeater-Builder] OFF TOPIC Re: New 6M Repeater in Central NH
OFF TOPIC Wish I'd have read the posts from the wannabe's before I posted this. I would have made my comments anyway just for spite. Tom --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Tom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OFF TOPIC Thanks Kevin, but after a day or so to think it over, I have come to the conclusion that what I had intended to say would serve no useful purpose, just as Don pointed out. I will say that amateur operator class means nothing, in my opinion, and I tend to view someone who tries too hard to make it known with considerable suspicion. Enough said, back to the Good Stuff. Tom --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Kevin Custer kuggie@ wrote: Tom wrote: Dear Repeater-Builder administrators: I've got a few things to say along the lines of this post. They are not only off topic, they are clearly discouraged in the intro. page of the site: HOWEVER, I believe they now need to be said. In spite of this, I will respectfully defer to your judgement on this. Should I respond on this thread, begin a new thread or refrain from comment altogether? Okay - post reply - plainly mark it OFF TOPIC in the subject line and the body of the text. Kevin Custer
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic: SO-239 Hoods
Surely a cm or two or nitto self adhesive water proof tape would be an item to keep in a drawer for future requirements if the purchase of two hoods is a problem not solvable locally ? To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 11:05:29 -0400 Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic: SO-239 Hoods Too small, I think, but I think I’ve got it covered. Thanks for looking! From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Derek J. Lassen Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2008 3:36 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic: SO-239 Hoods I have some UG-177U, but these are for small (like UT141) coax. Will they do? At 05:29 PM 7/19/2008 -0400, you wrote: Does anybody have a couple of hoods (Amphenol Part# 083-765 or similar)for SO-239 connectors they’d be willing to part with. I only need 2 and don’t want to gin up an order just for that. 73, Mike WM4B Kathleen, GA Off Topic: SO-239 Hoods _ Windows Live Messenger treats you to 30 free emoticons - Bees, cows, tigers and more! http://livelife.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=567534
Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic, trying not to re-invent the wheel...
Nate, Most Hams know their own rig very well. They might not know what all functions such as DCS is for because few use DCS. I have little worry in a time of need a ham will be able to operate his/her rig. We were talking about EOCs and other rigs where users were not familiar with them. Training will help some, but is often forgotten quickly. I have trouble when I have to do something on some of my rigs that I very seldom do more on than just tune and talk. I re-learn the process and get there. Rigs are so different in their operations. The real problem will not be Hams knowing how to set up a rig. Pre-programming can solve this in most cases. The real problem and needed training is what they do with the rigs once they are set up. This is where the training is required. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: Nate Duehr [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/03/27 Thu PM 07:28:21 CDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic, trying not to re-invent the wheel... Ron Wright wrote: Nate, Wish it were that easy. In about all my rigs to set the freq is easy, turn the tuning knob. Most have standard offset and hope the repeater you are going to does also. As for CTCSS most all my rigs require multiple setting and menus. One to set the freq, one to set rx or tx, etc. The point is that you just demonstrated that you know some things there that a LOT of volunteer hams don't! You know about rigs with and without standard offsets. You know why there's that RPT button on rigs. You know you need a CTCSS tone, and what it does. You learned that somewhere. Someone had to TRAIN you, or you had to TRAIN yourself. For those volunteer who REFUSE to self-train, they must be SHOWN and TESTED. How many hams even know that some modern rigs (finally) HAVE different CTCSS tones for TX/RX? (Which is actually fairly rare in Amateur rigs, but common in all commercial rigs for over a decade now.) You do. But for you to run around programming their radios for them, is ultimately a job that never ends -- you need to TRAIN them about what you know about HOW the rigs work, not how to spin the pre-programmed dial some radio guru set up for them. In the end, they're USELESS operators if you do that work and effort for them. Then comes the 2 years later when it must be done again. I don't care if it is 3 months later many will not be able to set some of the items in a rig they have been trained on. Well, if you go back to my Aviation analogy, there are recurrency requirements in Aviation also for that reason. *REAL* Emergency communications and Aviation share a common theme... lives are on the line. Aviation's had 100 years to come up with the bare minimum rules/regulations to keep people from dying as much as reasonably possible. It's not a bad model to emulate. Written test. Practical test. Logs that show you're current and safe before you can carry passengers. Specific time and safety-related reviews with an instructor required every so often. Of course, I'll certainly point out that hams RARELY are doing real *Emergency* communications. In all but the utterly devastating largest scale events, we're passing traffic about how many donuts are left at the shelter. Nothing life-threatening, and most of the traffic won't be delayed too badly by poor radio discipline, not knowing how to run the radio, etc. (In other words, we're the communications dumping ground for crap the real emergency responders don't want to do. And we get all excited and think we're adding great value when we do it, so ... that's fine... but it's why I don't bother to volunteer. I figure my skillset will be more badly needed to drive my dumb butt up to a site and get repeaters back on the air... or deploy portables for others to use... so I limit my EmComm activity to that.) Pre-program what you need then if there are 5 freq/tone/offsets in a system just quickly turn the knob. Yes, but ham rigs have memories. Use them, but also leave the VFO knob available. Don't switch to radios that have no flexibility, or you take away things a GOOD operator can use. If the approach of no training then no operation then lots of people will be left without EmComm and this is not an option. Lots of people will be left without *BAD* EmComm, which isn't a loss for them OR outsider's view of the hobby. Really sounds as if so many are planning a weekend bike run and not the real thing. I saw the need for someone not trained to do a commo job immediately in the military and the no training no do was not an option. Thus why military systems are set up to be operated by any monkey. That's not the focus of Amateur Radio -- we're a pool of TRAINED operators, according to Part 97. Not PTT-monkeys. Trained operators can fill both the important roles of flexible, knowledgeable, radio operator and also the PTT-monkey shoes, as required
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic, trying not to re-invent the wheel...
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OK, that will work. Then again, many amateur transceivers have a simpleton mode that only allows volume, squelch memory channel adjustment. Might be a cheaper more flexible solution since the radio can still be easily reprogrammed by anyone who does know the radio. Bob NO6B I hear there's a channelized service with 40 channels AM (and SSB too) down around the 11 meter portion of the spectrum. Perhaps hams that can't figure out a VFO and a couple of menu options might like one of those rigs in the emergency comm station because they're so easy to operate. (Sorry... had to poke fun at this silliness.) Here's the reality of it... for emergency comms, just handle it like anything else. If you're not checked out on the gear, you don't operate it. Just like anyone else with lives on the line... pilots, commercial drivers, etc. If you were checked out and you blow something up, both you AND the guy that signed you off are responsible until the cause of the accident is determined. Sounds a lot like aviation, doesn't it? Guess what... it works. With a radio it takes 5 minutes... someone stands there and says, Tune to X, standard repeater offset, and set a X Hz CTCSS tone and waits to see if the person can do it. Do a few more. If they can't operate the rig, it'll be obvious. And if they're not signed off, they're not authorized to use the community gear, because they'll blow it up. If the emergency station is configured with other tools, like a PC and sound-card HF software or similar, those would have separate check-rides. Nate WY0X
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic, trying not to re-invent the wheel...
Nate, hear hear. In fact, I'd take it a step further. We only stay checked out on a piece of equipment if we use it regularly. For that matter, equipment which sits and gathers dust for years doesn't stay reliable. Is buying radios for permanent installation at an EOC really smart? Back in the 1980s, after the Teton Dam Disaster in Idaho, there was awareness within the LDS church that its facilities should be ham-friendly, because that had turned out to be the only reliable form of communications in the aftermath of the event. For a while, it was possible to get church funding for ham stations, especially where relief supplies were stored. Not any more. I'm told the reason is that hams would show up to operate church-owned equipment and be too unfamiliar with it to be useful. When hams had to bring their own gear, they were much more likely to arrive knowing how to use it immediately. I wonder if the best solution for EOCs would not be to provide 12V power, antennas, adapters for SO-238 and BNC chained down so they couldn't walk away, and require the hams to show up with their own radios as part of their go-kits. It's a blast to have a grant application approved, but getting institutional radios has a down-side. Retired commercial radios could be a good choice, and easy for county governments to come by, but make sure some of the channels on that cheat sheet are simplex, and you train to operate a net that way. Storms and floods often leave many repeaters operational, but I'm not sure an earthquake or volcanic event would be so considerate. I've also heard repeaters jammed by miscreants when they're needed most. Sad, but it happens. 73, Paul, AE4KR _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nate Duehr Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 1:18 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic, trying not to re-invent the wheel... [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:no6b%40no6b.com wrote: OK, that will work. Then again, many amateur transceivers have a simpleton mode that only allows volume, squelch memory channel adjustment. Might be a cheaper more flexible solution since the radio can still be easily reprogrammed by anyone who does know the radio. Bob NO6B I hear there's a channelized service with 40 channels AM (and SSB too) down around the 11 meter portion of the spectrum. Perhaps hams that can't figure out a VFO and a couple of menu options might like one of those rigs in the emergency comm station because they're so easy to operate. (Sorry... had to poke fun at this silliness.) Here's the reality of it... for emergency comms, just handle it like anything else. If you're not checked out on the gear, you don't operate it. Just like anyone else with lives on the line... pilots, commercial drivers, etc. If you were checked out and you blow something up, both you AND the guy that signed you off are responsible until the cause of the accident is determined. Sounds a lot like aviation, doesn't it? Guess what... it works. With a radio it takes 5 minutes... someone stands there and says, Tune to X, standard repeater offset, and set a X Hz CTCSS tone and waits to see if the person can do it. Do a few more. If they can't operate the rig, it'll be obvious. And if they're not signed off, they're not authorized to use the community gear, because they'll blow it up. If the emergency station is configured with other tools, like a PC and sound-card HF software or similar, those would have separate check-rides. Nate WY0X
Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic, trying not to re-invent the wheel...
Nate, Wish it were that easy. In about all my rigs to set the freq is easy, turn the tuning knob. Most have standard offset and hope the repeater you are going to does also. As for CTCSS most all my rigs require multiple setting and menus. One to set the freq, one to set rx or tx, etc. Then comes the 2 years later when it must be done again. I don't care if it is 3 months later many will not be able to set some of the items in a rig they have been trained on. Pre-program what you need then if there are 5 freq/tone/offsets in a system just quickly turn the knob. If the approach of no training then no operation then lots of people will be left without EmComm and this is not an option. Really sounds as if so many are planning a weekend bike run and not the real thing. I saw the need for someone not trained to do a commo job immediately in the military and the no training no do was not an option. I do encourage all to train as much as they can. It is valuable, but often helps less then some think. 73, ron, n9ee/r With a radio it takes 5 minutes... someone stands there and says, Tune to X, standard repeater offset, and set a X Hz CTCSS tone and waits to see if the person can do it. Do a few more. Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic, trying not to re-invent the wheel...
Ron Wright wrote: Nate, Wish it were that easy. In about all my rigs to set the freq is easy, turn the tuning knob. Most have standard offset and hope the repeater you are going to does also. As for CTCSS most all my rigs require multiple setting and menus. One to set the freq, one to set rx or tx, etc. The point is that you just demonstrated that you know some things there that a LOT of volunteer hams don't! You know about rigs with and without standard offsets. You know why there's that RPT button on rigs. You know you need a CTCSS tone, and what it does. You learned that somewhere. Someone had to TRAIN you, or you had to TRAIN yourself. For those volunteer who REFUSE to self-train, they must be SHOWN and TESTED. How many hams even know that some modern rigs (finally) HAVE different CTCSS tones for TX/RX? (Which is actually fairly rare in Amateur rigs, but common in all commercial rigs for over a decade now.) You do. But for you to run around programming their radios for them, is ultimately a job that never ends -- you need to TRAIN them about what you know about HOW the rigs work, not how to spin the pre-programmed dial some radio guru set up for them. In the end, they're USELESS operators if you do that work and effort for them. Then comes the 2 years later when it must be done again. I don't care if it is 3 months later many will not be able to set some of the items in a rig they have been trained on. Well, if you go back to my Aviation analogy, there are recurrency requirements in Aviation also for that reason. *REAL* Emergency communications and Aviation share a common theme... lives are on the line. Aviation's had 100 years to come up with the bare minimum rules/regulations to keep people from dying as much as reasonably possible. It's not a bad model to emulate. Written test. Practical test. Logs that show you're current and safe before you can carry passengers. Specific time and safety-related reviews with an instructor required every so often. Of course, I'll certainly point out that hams RARELY are doing real *Emergency* communications. In all but the utterly devastating largest scale events, we're passing traffic about how many donuts are left at the shelter. Nothing life-threatening, and most of the traffic won't be delayed too badly by poor radio discipline, not knowing how to run the radio, etc. (In other words, we're the communications dumping ground for crap the real emergency responders don't want to do. And we get all excited and think we're adding great value when we do it, so ... that's fine... but it's why I don't bother to volunteer. I figure my skillset will be more badly needed to drive my dumb butt up to a site and get repeaters back on the air... or deploy portables for others to use... so I limit my EmComm activity to that.) Pre-program what you need then if there are 5 freq/tone/offsets in a system just quickly turn the knob. Yes, but ham rigs have memories. Use them, but also leave the VFO knob available. Don't switch to radios that have no flexibility, or you take away things a GOOD operator can use. If the approach of no training then no operation then lots of people will be left without EmComm and this is not an option. Lots of people will be left without *BAD* EmComm, which isn't a loss for them OR outsider's view of the hobby. Really sounds as if so many are planning a weekend bike run and not the real thing. I saw the need for someone not trained to do a commo job immediately in the military and the no training no do was not an option. Thus why military systems are set up to be operated by any monkey. That's not the focus of Amateur Radio -- we're a pool of TRAINED operators, according to Part 97. Not PTT-monkeys. Trained operators can fill both the important roles of flexible, knowledgeable, radio operator and also the PTT-monkey shoes, as required. Untrained operators, can't. I do encourage all to train as much as they can. It is valuable, but often helps less then some think. Where it helps is in getting people FAMILIAR with the different rig configurations and possibilities. Teach 'em to use your memory channels, sure... but also teach 'em how to THINK and how the rigs WORK and they'll be more effective in a very short period of time. If we give up and don't train/teach/mentor/Elmer people -- and just accept all volunteers with no requirement to learn -- we get what we deserve in this hobby today. Nate WY0X
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic, trying not to re-invent the wheel...
On Mar 25, 2008, at 4:28 PM, Mike Morris WA6ILQ wrote: (card 1 face) Operating Instructions using preprogrammed memory channels: 1. Turn on radio, adjust volume and squelch Step 1... Turn off odd-ball rig you've never seen before, and pull the one you're used to using out of your go kit. Hook it to the powerpoles and antenna connection so graciously already provided behind the rig on the desk, and operate. (GRIN) Just kidding Mike -- kinda. Sorry, no cheat sheets for the Yaesu's here. The real confusion for most modern rigs is that they expect people to think in terms of modes or menus and making up cheat sheets that cover any possible odd-ball menu or mode the rig could get left in, is difficult. An operator can also go into a deep menu somewhere and set a setting that drives everyone else bonkers trying to figure out why the rig is misbehaving. (A good example would be turning off the ALC on an SSB rig... down in a menu somewhere, and then walking away. Will drive the next op bananas and they'll never find it if they're unfamiliar with the rig, without a menu by menu search for the problem. You might even see a frustrated operator do a soft-reset on the rig, thus blowing away all the memories and other stuff someone worked hard on.) Want some realistic training and some fun? Get some duplicates of all the radio types (even if borrowed) and set them up the same as the rigs currently being used. Hook 'em to power and dummy loads in a training room, then hand people 4 X 5 cards with their tactical callsigns, a message to pass to another stations, and tell them they have to set up a net on a particular frequency and pass the traffic. Go. Randomly assign operators to the radios in the training room, and then start a stopwatch. (GRIN) No cheat sheets, no laminated cards... all you get is the grey matter in your skull and your eyeballs to read the tiny little labels on the buttons on the rig. No matter if you've used that rig before or not. Have an instructor or two monitor over their shoulders who know that rig, to catch them and stop them if they do anything that might damage the rig or otherwise leave it badly misconfigured. As a bonus, you would quickly find out what radio is a complete pain in the ass for the operators, and you can pull it out and mandate it not be installed at any EOC. (BIGGER GRIN) -- Nate Duehr, WY0X [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic, trying not to re-invent the wheel...
From my 15+ years experience with emergency comm here 90% of those who show up to help NEVER come to meetings. How you going to put them in a training class? You are not. Also I can train Hams on a radio right down to the nitty griddy details and 2 years later when they come in for a real operation they will swear they have never seen the radio, hi. The process is to set up the rigs so all one has to do is turn on, set to memory 1, 2 or 3 (which given on a well displayed info sheet), pick up the mike and communicate. Hams do a pretty good job of talking. If there are complex issues one needs a central one, two or three person expert on the equipment. The Military has done this for decades. A troop can go from CA to TN and operate the rigs in the TOC. The tactics will differ, but the radios are not the problem. We should strive for this simplicity in Ham emergency commo. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: Nate Duehr [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/03/26 Wed AM 04:36:47 CDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic, trying not to re-invent the wheel... On Mar 25, 2008, at 4:28 PM, Mike Morris WA6ILQ wrote: (card 1 face) Operating Instructions using preprogrammed memory channels: 1. Turn on radio, adjust volume and squelch Step 1... Turn off odd-ball rig you've never seen before, and pull the one you're used to using out of your go kit. Hook it to the powerpoles and antenna connection so graciously already provided behind the rig on the desk, and operate. (GRIN) Just kidding Mike -- kinda. Sorry, no cheat sheets for the Yaesu's here. The real confusion for most modern rigs is that they expect people to think in terms of modes or menus and making up cheat sheets that cover any possible odd-ball menu or mode the rig could get left in, is difficult. An operator can also go into a deep menu somewhere and set a setting that drives everyone else bonkers trying to figure out why the rig is misbehaving. (A good example would be turning off the ALC on an SSB rig... down in a menu somewhere, and then walking away. Will drive the next op bananas and they'll never find it if they're unfamiliar with the rig, without a menu by menu search for the problem. You might even see a frustrated operator do a soft-reset on the rig, thus blowing away all the memories and other stuff someone worked hard on.) Want some realistic training and some fun? Get some duplicates of all the radio types (even if borrowed) and set them up the same as the rigs currently being used. Hook 'em to power and dummy loads in a training room, then hand people 4 X 5 cards with their tactical callsigns, a message to pass to another stations, and tell them they have to set up a net on a particular frequency and pass the traffic. Go. Randomly assign operators to the radios in the training room, and then start a stopwatch. (GRIN) No cheat sheets, no laminated cards... all you get is the grey matter in your skull and your eyeballs to read the tiny little labels on the buttons on the rig. No matter if you've used that rig before or not. Have an instructor or two monitor over their shoulders who know that rig, to catch them and stop them if they do anything that might damage the rig or otherwise leave it badly misconfigured. As a bonus, you would quickly find out what radio is a complete pain in the ass for the operators, and you can pull it out and mandate it not be installed at any EOC. (BIGGER GRIN) -- Nate Duehr, WY0X [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic, trying not to re-invent the wheel...
Radios at emergency opperating positions that will be used by Ham people in an emergency need to be commercial radios that are idiot proof. We use Motorola GM 300's with headsets at some locations (com centers) mobile and fixed, and standard mic at others (fire departments). That way the opperator only has to turn the power on and hook up the antenna and set the channel and volume. The commercial mobile radios have enough memories to be efficient and effective for any type of disaster communications. No cheat sheet nedded other than a channel list. If you think you must have a radio you can dial around then by all means install it and a second antenna it is sometimes helpfull to be able to listen to a second frequency durring an emergency activation. We tried the Ham radio in emergency com centers for years and they worked great but when the E.C. went to the EOC during an activation and could not figure out how to set the pl because someone fooled with the buttons between activations the radio was useless and these were very simple single band radios. Get some commercial radios to use as your main radios as soon as possible and everyone will be more efficient and professional while doing their emergency communicating. tom [Original Message] From: Mike Morris WA6ILQ [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/25/2008 6:28:57 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic, trying not to re-invent the wheel... Yes, this is off topic, but I thought I'd tap the combined experience of the 3000 plus group members... Over and above helping set up a couple of repeaters, I've been asked to help out a local Red Cross chapter in their Emergency Comm Center. The situation is that they have a number of operators that are familiar with one model (or brand) of radio, and on zero notice may be assigned to sit an a operating position (in either the fixed or mobile comm centers) that has a totally unfamiliar radio. I've requested a list of the ham radios in both comm centers. So far I know that there are three Yaesu FT7800 radios, and a number of Kenwoods including the 231 and 241.I've asked for a full list... Before I spend several evenings prepping writeups (that will be made into laminated cards) for various radios does anybody have a cheat sheet containing steps for the Yaesu 7800 for: (card 1 face) Operating Instructions using preprogrammed memory channels: 1. Turn on radio, adjust volume and squelch 2. (next step) 3. (next step) 4. Select VHF or UHF by pressing the button marked. 5) (next step) 6) (next step) Selecting memory channel 1) (step 1) 2) (next step) etc (flip side of card 1) Operating Instructions in VFO mode 1. Turn on radio, adjust volume and squelch 2. (next step) 3. (next step) 4. Select VHF or UHF by pressing the button marked. 5) (next step) 6) (next step) Selecting receive frequency 1) (step 1) 2) (next step) etc Selecting offset (i.e. the transmit frequency) 1) (step 1) 2) (next step) etc Selecting CTCSS encode tone 1) (step 1) 2) (next step) etc (card 2) Programming the radio (loading frequencies into memories) 1. Turn on radio, adjust volume and squelch 2. (next step) 3. (next step) 4. Select VHF or UHF by pressing the button marked. 5) (next step) 6) (next step) See other card for setting up radio in VFO mode Copying VFO to selected memory channel (note do not overwrite any existing memory channel) 1) (step 1) 2) (next step) etc Thanks in advance. Mike WA6ILQ Yahoo! Groups Links -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.0/1341 - Release Date: 3/24/2008 3:03 PM
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic, trying not to re-invent the wheel...
Maybe you haven't been to a test session lately. Since the FCC et al lowered the standards and did away with Morse Code entirely, the quality of the new operators is a lot lower than you might want to acknowledge. Sure, the guys who have been hams since the 1970s probably know which end of a tube to plug in, and can figure many things out. But who's gonna show up to volunteer? All the new guys with zero experience who see the event as public relations and glory. I agree that commercial rigs are a lot more foolproof, and if new repeaters come on the air that often, then someone will just have to keep up with programming them. Not really a big deal. In some areas of the country, the only bands capable of accepting new repeaters aren't covered by commercial equipment anyway, so it's a non-issue for things like 1296 MHz. Bob M. == --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... IMO anyone who can't figure out how to use their radio shouldn't be volunteering. That is supposedly what distinguishes hams from the general population: our operating expertise. Bob NO6B Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic, trying not to re-invent the wheel...
Sorry to add my 3 cents worth. But the best way to deal with this problem or any emergency problem is routine monthly training. The radios your key people use during an emergency should be in the same category as their own radios. We use icom 2820's through our whole ARES/RACES system with no problem. But there again, it all comes down to training and practice and teamwork. sorry for butting in. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2008 6:57 AM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic, trying not to re-invent the wheel... At 3/26/2008 06:29, you wrote: Radios at emergency opperating positions that will be used by Ham people in an emergency need to be commercial radios that are idiot proof. Sounds like a good idea on the surface, but the lack of VFO mode IMO severely limits its usefulness in an emergency. What if only a handful of repeaters are left on the air none of them are programmed into the radios? A user-programmable radio like the Kenwood TK-805D is a possibility, but to be effective the user must know how to program it. As I'm sitting here at the keyboard I've already forgotten how to program mine. We tried the Ham radio in emergency com centers for years and they worked great but when the E.C. went to the EOC during an activation and could not figure out how to set the pl because someone fooled with the buttons between activations the radio was useless and these were very simple single band radios. IMO anyone who can't figure out how to use their radio shouldn't be volunteering. That is supposedly what distinguishes hams from the general population: our operating expertise. Bob NO6B
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic, trying not to re-invent the wheel...
At 3/26/2008 06:29, you wrote: Radios at emergency opperating positions that will be used by Ham people in an emergency need to be commercial radios that are idiot proof. Sounds like a good idea on the surface, but the lack of VFO mode IMO severely limits its usefulness in an emergency. What if only a handful of repeaters are left on the air none of them are programmed into the radios? A user-programmable radio like the Kenwood TK-805D is a possibility, but to be effective the user must know how to program it. As I'm sitting here at the keyboard I've already forgotten how to program mine. We tried the Ham radio in emergency com centers for years and they worked great but when the E.C. went to the EOC during an activation and could not figure out how to set the pl because someone fooled with the buttons between activations the radio was useless and these were very simple single band radios. IMO anyone who can't figure out how to use their radio shouldn't be volunteering. That is supposedly what distinguishes hams from the general population: our operating expertise. Bob NO6B
Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic, trying not to re-invent the wheel...
I agree with Ron. You'll never get them trained. They solved the problem in our County HazMat truck by installing commercial two-way radios programmed to the area repeaters. You simply dial to the proper channel and the frequency and PL is programmed in and can't be messed up. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Ron Wright [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2008 7:11 AM Subject: Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic, trying not to re-invent the wheel... From my 15+ years experience with emergency comm here 90% of those who show up to help NEVER come to meetings. How you going to put them in a training class? You are not. Also I can train Hams on a radio right down to the nitty griddy details and 2 years later when they come in for a real operation they will swear they have never seen the radio, hi. The process is to set up the rigs so all one has to do is turn on, set to memory 1, 2 or 3 (which given on a well displayed info sheet), pick up the mike and communicate. Hams do a pretty good job of talking. If there are complex issues one needs a central one, two or three person expert on the equipment. The Military has done this for decades. A troop can go from CA to TN and operate the rigs in the TOC. The tactics will differ, but the radios are not the problem. We should strive for this simplicity in Ham emergency commo. 73, ron, n9ee/r
Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic, trying not to re-invent the wheel...
Having the same rig for all would be nice. In an EOC this is possible. However, the value of Ham Radio to a community is the Hams have a supply of radios they bought, maintain and learn to use. Can one see the vast cost if say 50 Hams/people had to be supplied equipment at gov expense. Would not happen. And since we all have wants, prefer different manufacturer's rigs for many reasons one type or model rig is not going to happen. And of course this leads to the Hams coming out of the wood work in a disaster they have little knowledge with the equipment in place except for their own. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: Steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/03/26 Wed PM 12:19:37 CDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic, trying not to re-invent the wheel... Sorry to add my 3 cents worth. But the best way to deal with this problem or any emergency problem is routine monthly training. The radios your key people use during an emergency should be in the same category as their own radios. We use icom 2820's through our whole ARES/RACES system with no problem. But there again, it all comes down to training and practice and teamwork. sorry for butting in.- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.comSent: Wednesday, March 26, 2008 6:57 AM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic, trying not to re-invent the wheel... At 3/26/2008 06:29, you wrote: Radios at emergency opperating positions that will be used by Ham people in an emergency need to be commercial radios that are idiot proof. Sounds like a good idea on the surface, but the lack of VFO mode IMO severely limits its usefulness in an emergency. What if only a handful of repeaters are left on the airnone of them are programmed into the radios? A user-programmable radio like the Kenwood TK-805D is a possibility, but to be effective the user must know how to program it. As I'm sitting here at the keyboard I've already forgotten how to program mine. We tried the Ham radio in emergency com centers for years and they worked great but when the E.C. went to the EOC during an activation and could not figure out how to set the pl because someone fooled with the buttons between activations the radio was useless and these were very simple single band radios. IMO anyone who can't figure out how to use their radio shouldn't be volunteering. That is supposedly what distinguishes hams from the general population: our operating expertise. Bob NO6B Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic, trying not to re-invent the wheel...
Yep. I've been a ham for a fairly long time (mid 70's). I usually have to dig out the manual to program my own rigs every time I want to change something. I can't imagine trying to remember how to program someone else's radio. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Ron Wright [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2008 11:51 AM Subject: Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic, trying not to re-invent the wheel... Having the same rig for all would be nice. In an EOC this is possible. However, the value of Ham Radio to a community is the Hams have a supply of radios they bought, maintain and learn to use. Can one see the vast cost if say 50 Hams/people had to be supplied equipment at gov expense. Would not happen. And since we all have wants, prefer different manufacturer's rigs for many reasons one type or model rig is not going to happen. And of course this leads to the Hams coming out of the wood work in a disaster they have little knowledge with the equipment in place except for their own. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: Steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/03/26 Wed PM 12:19:37 CDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic, trying not to re-invent the wheel... Sorry to add my 3 cents worth. But the best way to deal with this problem or any emergency problem is routine monthly training. The radios your key people use during an emergency should be in the same category as their own radios. We use icom 2820's through our whole ARES/RACES system with no problem. But there again, it all comes down to training and practice and teamwork. sorry for butting in.- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.comSent: Wednesday, March 26, 2008 6:57 AM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic, trying not to re-invent the wheel... At 3/26/2008 06:29, you wrote: Radios at emergency opperating positions that will be used by Ham people in an emergency need to be commercial radios that are idiot proof. Sounds like a good idea on the surface, but the lack of VFO mode IMO severely limits its usefulness in an emergency. What if only a handful of repeaters are left on the airnone of them are programmed into the radios? A user-programmable radio like the Kenwood TK-805D is a possibility, but to be effective the user must know how to program it. As I'm sitting here at the keyboard I've already forgotten how to program mine. We tried the Ham radio in emergency com centers for years and they worked great but when the E.C. went to the EOC during an activation and could not figure out how to set the pl because someone fooled with the buttons between activations the radio was useless and these were very simple single band radios. IMO anyone who can't figure out how to use their radio shouldn't be volunteering. That is supposedly what distinguishes hams from the general population: our operating expertise. Bob NO6B Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome. Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic, trying not to re-invent the wheel...
Chuck Kelsey wrote: I agree with Ron. You'll never get them trained. Sounds like underwater basket-weaving would be more productive. Nate WY0X
Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic, trying not to re-invent the wheel...
On Wed, 26 Mar 2008, Ron Wright wrote: From my 15+ years experience with emergency comm here 90% of those who show up to help NEVER come to meetings. How you going to put them in a training class? You are not. Simple: Ban them from participating in any events unless they are willing at attend that one class. I'm not well versed in Icom radios. Motorola, Yaesu, and Alinco mostly. I've used one Kenwood radio of recent vintage. I am not inclined toward MARS, RACES, etc. However, were I, I would attend such as clas, just as I have attended storm spotter training in the past -- even though my usual response to a storm is just to get as low as possible. :) -- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR [EMAIL PROTECTED] But remember, with no superpowers comes no responsibility. --rly
Re: Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic, trying not to re-invent the wheel...
Kris, Sure ban them. You got hundreds of trees and telephone poles down, routes blocked for emergency vehicles, no power or water and you need comm to coordinate things and one is going to say have you attended a class??? I don't think so. Some don't take the time to attend meetings which is so often a few telling stories, but when really needed they show up. I enjoy how people who you've never met will pitch in during a disaster. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: Kris Kirby [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/03/26 Wed PM 03:50:47 CDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic, trying not to re-invent the wheel... On Wed, 26 Mar 2008, Ron Wright wrote: From my 15+ years experience with emergency comm here 90% of those who show up to help NEVER come to meetings. How you going to put them in a training class? You are not. Simple: Ban them from participating in any events unless they are willing at attend that one class. I'm not well versed in Icom radios. Motorola, Yaesu, and Alinco mostly. I've used one Kenwood radio of recent vintage. I am not inclined toward MARS, RACES, etc. However, were I, I would attend such as clas, just as I have attended storm spotter training in the past -- even though my usual response to a storm is just to get as low as possible. :) -- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR [EMAIL PROTECTED] But remember, with no superpowers comes no responsibility. --rly Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
RE: Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic, trying not to re-invent the wheel...
Pardon me if this is blunt, but are these meetings really efficient for training? Or, have they developed a reputation as a monthly nerds night out for guys who like wearing pocketed orange vests in public, and a waste of time for everyone else? If people can't or won't make room in their lives for more meetings, then find ways to train them online, during nets and wherever you can find them. The business and educational worlds do much now with teleconferencing and distance learning. If someone checks into your net often enough to stay fresh on procedures, and demonstrates the ability to handle formal traffic, how much face-to-face training is really needed? 73, Paul, AE4KR _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ron Wright Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2008 5:03 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic, trying not to re-invent the wheel... Kris, Sure ban them. You got hundreds of trees and telephone poles down, routes blocked for emergency vehicles, no power or water and you need comm to coordinate things and one is going to say have you attended a class??? I don't think so. Some don't take the time to attend meetings which is so often a few telling stories, but when really needed they show up. I enjoy how people who you've never met will pitch in during a disaster. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: Kris Kirby [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:kris%40catonic.us us Date: 2008/03/26 Wed PM 03:50:47 CDT To: Repeater-Builder@ mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic, trying not to re-invent the wheel... On Wed, 26 Mar 2008, Ron Wright wrote: From my 15+ years experience with emergency comm here 90% of those who show up to help NEVER come to meetings. How you going to put them in a training class? You are not. Simple: Ban them from participating in any events unless they are willing at attend that one class. I'm not well versed in Icom radios. Motorola, Yaesu, and Alinco mostly. I've used one Kenwood radio of recent vintage. I am not inclined toward MARS, RACES, etc. However, were I, I would attend such as clas, just as I have attended storm spotter training in the past -- even though my usual response to a storm is just to get as low as possible. :) -- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:kris%40catonic.us us But remember, with no superpowers comes no responsibility. --rly Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic, trying not to re-invent the wheel...
At 3/26/2008 08:14, you wrote: Maybe you haven't been to a test session lately. Since the FCC et al lowered the standards and did away with Morse Code entirely, the quality of the new operators is a lot lower than you might want to acknowledge. Sure, the guys who have been hams since the 1970s probably know which end of a tube to plug in, and can figure many things out. But who's gonna show up to volunteer? All the new guys with zero experience who see the event as public relations and glory. W.r.t. the primary public service event I'm involved with (LA Marathon), we simply don't allow untrained individuals to volunteer; pre-event training is mandatory. I agree that commercial rigs are a lot more foolproof, and if new repeaters come on the air that often, then someone will just have to keep up with programming them. This has nothing to do with new repeaters. Out of all the repeaters serving the area, can you predict which ones will still be on the air after a disaster? If not, can you program every single one of them into your commercial radios? Around here it would amount to nearly 100 repeaters just on 2 meters. Not really a big deal. In some areas of the country, the only bands capable of accepting new repeaters aren't covered by commercial equipment anyway, so it's a non-issue for things like 1296 MHz. I guess the other areas can speak for themselves w.r.t. allowing new repeaters. Here in SoCal there are new repeaters hitting the airwaves nearly every month. Bob NO6B
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic, trying not to re-invent the wheel...
Ya, you CAN program 100 or more repeaters into most current commercial rigs, and alpha tag them as well. Michael -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 19:34:57 To:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic, trying not to re-invent the wheel... At 3/26/2008 08:14, you wrote: Maybe you haven't been to a test session lately. Since the FCC et al lowered the standards and did away with Morse Code entirely, the quality of the new operators is a lot lower than you might want to acknowledge. Sure, the guys who have been hams since the 1970s probably know which end of a tube to plug in, and can figure many things out. But who's gonna show up to volunteer? All the new guys with zero experience who see the event as public relations and glory. W.r.t. the primary public service event I'm involved with (LA Marathon), we simply don't allow untrained individuals to volunteer; pre-event training is mandatory. I agree that commercial rigs are a lot more foolproof, and if new repeaters come on the air that often, then someone will just have to keep up with programming them. This has nothing to do with new repeaters. Out of all the repeaters serving the area, can you predict which ones will still be on the air after a disaster? If not, can you program every single one of them into your commercial radios? Around here it would amount to nearly 100 repeaters just on 2 meters. Not really a big deal. In some areas of the country, the only bands capable of accepting new repeaters aren't covered by commercial equipment anyway, so it's a non-issue for things like 1296 MHz. I guess the other areas can speak for themselves w.r.t. allowing new repeaters. Here in SoCal there are new repeaters hitting the airwaves nearly every month. Bob NO6B Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic, trying not to re-invent the wheel...
At 3/26/2008 16:03, you wrote: Kris, Sure ban them. You got hundreds of trees and telephone poles down, routes blocked for emergency vehicles, no power or water and you need comm to coordinate things and one is going to say have you attended a class??? I don't think so. Maybe EmComm is different, but for public service events I'd rather have a thin staff than an adequate number of clueless hams making us look bad. Bob NO6B
RE: Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic, trying not to re-invent the wheel...
At 3/26/2008 16:54, you wrote: Pardon me if this is blunt, but are these meetings really efficient for training? Or, have they developed a reputation as a monthly nerds night out for guys who like wearing pocketed orange vests in public, and a waste of time for everyone else? If people can't or won't make room in their lives for more meetings, then find ways to train them online, during nets and wherever you can find them. The business and educational worlds do much now with teleconferencing and distance learning. If someone checks into your net often enough to stay fresh on procedures, and demonstrates the ability to handle formal traffic, how much face-to-face training is really needed? One of the things we do at our training meetings for the marathon is get everyone's radio programmed with the net frequencies (only HTs are used, as no one is allowed to park on the course). Kind of hard to do that over the radio or internet. One of the channels is an odd-split portable 2 meter repeater. It's a bit of a challenge to get that one but we manage to get almost everyone's radio programmed (we missed one last year, had an unknown problem with one radio this year that I think was simply a defective radio). Bob NO6B
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic, trying not to re-invent the wheel...
OK, that will work. Then again, many amateur transceivers have a simpleton mode that only allows volume, squelch memory channel adjustment. Might be a cheaper more flexible solution since the radio can still be easily reprogrammed by anyone who does know the radio. Bob NO6B At 3/26/2008 19:39, you wrote: Ya, you CAN program 100 or more repeaters into most current commercial rigs, and alpha tag them as well. Michael -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 19:34:57 To:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic, trying not to re-invent the wheel... At 3/26/2008 08:14, you wrote: Maybe you haven't been to a test session lately. Since the FCC et al lowered the standards and did away with Morse Code entirely, the quality of the new operators is a lot lower than you might want to acknowledge. Sure, the guys who have been hams since the 1970s probably know which end of a tube to plug in, and can figure many things out. But who's gonna show up to volunteer? All the new guys with zero experience who see the event as public relations and glory. W.r.t. the primary public service event I'm involved with (LA Marathon), we simply don't allow untrained individuals to volunteer; pre-event training is mandatory. I agree that commercial rigs are a lot more foolproof, and if new repeaters come on the air that often, then someone will just have to keep up with programming them. This has nothing to do with new repeaters. Out of all the repeaters serving the area, can you predict which ones will still be on the air after a disaster? If not, can you program every single one of them into your commercial radios? Around here it would amount to nearly 100 repeaters just on 2 meters. Not really a big deal. In some areas of the country, the only bands capable of accepting new repeaters aren't covered by commercial equipment anyway, so it's a non-issue for things like 1296 MHz. I guess the other areas can speak for themselves w.r.t. allowing new repeaters. Here in SoCal there are new repeaters hitting the airwaves nearly every month. Bob NO6B
[Repeater-Builder] Off Topic, trying not to re-invent the wheel...
Yes, this is off topic, but I thought I'd tap the combined experience of the 3000 plus group members... Over and above helping set up a couple of repeaters, I've been asked to help out a local Red Cross chapter in their Emergency Comm Center. The situation is that they have a number of operators that are familiar with one model (or brand) of radio, and on zero notice may be assigned to sit an a operating position (in either the fixed or mobile comm centers) that has a totally unfamiliar radio. I've requested a list of the ham radios in both comm centers. So far I know that there are three Yaesu FT7800 radios, and a number of Kenwoods including the 231 and 241.I've asked for a full list... Before I spend several evenings prepping writeups (that will be made into laminated cards) for various radios does anybody have a cheat sheet containing steps for the Yaesu 7800 for: (card 1 face) Operating Instructions using preprogrammed memory channels: 1. Turn on radio, adjust volume and squelch 2. (next step) 3. (next step) 4. Select VHF or UHF by pressing the button marked. 5) (next step) 6) (next step) Selecting memory channel 1) (step 1) 2) (next step) etc (flip side of card 1) Operating Instructions in VFO mode 1. Turn on radio, adjust volume and squelch 2. (next step) 3. (next step) 4. Select VHF or UHF by pressing the button marked. 5) (next step) 6) (next step) Selecting receive frequency 1) (step 1) 2) (next step) etc Selecting offset (i.e. the transmit frequency) 1) (step 1) 2) (next step) etc Selecting CTCSS encode tone 1) (step 1) 2) (next step) etc (card 2) Programming the radio (loading frequencies into memories) 1. Turn on radio, adjust volume and squelch 2. (next step) 3. (next step) 4. Select VHF or UHF by pressing the button marked. 5) (next step) 6) (next step) See other card for setting up radio in VFO mode Copying VFO to selected memory channel (note do not overwrite any existing memory channel) 1) (step 1) 2) (next step) etc Thanks in advance. Mike WA6ILQ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic, trying not to re-invent the wheel...
Mike, I would recommend all rigs be pre-set in a standard manner. That is in memories set same for various memories such as for VHF put in memory 1 the main freq with all needed. Same for rest of memories. The last thing one needs in an EOC setting is having to learn how to use a rig. Of course there will always be some kind of learning curve...just knowing where the mike gain, volume, squelch etc on rigs like HF rigs is either practiced before hand or the ops just have to learn. Again pre-program the memories. Having to program freq, offset, CTCSS, etc is normally not needed if pre-set and is a problem with new ops. Post a list of what freq does what in plane site right on the front of the station with freq memory. If main repeater and most used freq put in memory 1 in all, VHF and UHF. Memory 2 back up repeater, memory 3 simplex and then other repeaters that might be used. The one problem all emergency operations have the Hams showing up are there for the first time. So many Hams brag about the value of Ham Radio in a disaster, but few show up for regular meetings and it becomes difficult to have them trained. If you make up a 50 page book on procedures and operating standards it will be kinda useless. We just learned in my area that ARES/RACES will be put in charge of distributing radios, not just Ham rigs, in a disaster. If a group shows up with 20 radios and 20 people the gov will take some of the radios and assess where they would be needed. Well guess what, some of these are trunked rigs and we Hams have only seen on a deputy's belt or around the EOC, but never operated one. The deputy's who carries them daily do not know how to put them in emergency modes. 73, ron, n9ee/r ps Also label the antennas coming in the shack. From: Mike Morris WA6ILQ [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/03/25 Tue PM 05:28:50 CDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic, trying not to re-invent the wheel... Yes, this is off topic, but I thought I'd tap the combined experience of the 3000 plus group members... Over and above helping set up a couple of repeaters, I've been asked to help out a local Red Cross chapter in their Emergency Comm Center. The situation is that they have a number of operators that are familiar with one model (or brand) of radio, and on zero notice may be assigned to sit an a operating position (in either the fixed or mobile comm centers) that has a totally unfamiliar radio. I've requested a list of the ham radios in both comm centers. So far I know that there are three Yaesu FT7800 radios, and a number of Kenwoods including the 231 and 241.I've asked for a full list... Before I spend several evenings prepping writeups (that will be made into laminated cards) for various radios does anybody have a cheat sheet containing steps for the Yaesu 7800 for: (card 1 face) Operating Instructions using preprogrammed memory channels: 1. Turn on radio, adjust volume and squelch 2. (next step) 3. (next step) 4. Select VHF or UHF by pressing the button marked. 5) (next step) 6) (next step) Selecting memory channel 1) (step 1) 2) (next step) etc (flip side of card 1) Operating Instructions in VFO mode 1. Turn on radio, adjust volume and squelch 2. (next step) 3. (next step) 4. Select VHF or UHF by pressing the button marked. 5) (next step) 6) (next step) Selecting receive frequency 1) (step 1) 2) (next step) etc Selecting offset (i.e. the transmit frequency) 1) (step 1) 2) (next step) etc Selecting CTCSS encode tone 1) (step 1) 2) (next step) etc (card 2) Programming the radio (loading frequencies into memories) 1. Turn on radio, adjust volume and squelch 2. (next step) 3. (next step) 4. Select VHF or UHF by pressing the button marked. 5) (next step) 6) (next step) See other card for setting up radio in VFO mode Copying VFO to selected memory channel (note do not overwrite any existing memory channel) 1) (step 1) 2) (next step) etc Thanks in advance. Mike WA6ILQ Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic (but I don't know who else to ask)
Google had no problem: http://www.shipcom.com Bob M. == --- Paul Yonge [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does anyone know what happened to the maritime station WLO? Was it a casualty of the Gulf storms? Paul Yonge W2ARK Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic (but I don't know who else to ask)
Bob - Thanks. I missed this when I searched Google. Paul On Jan 22, 2008, at 5:39 AM, Bob M. wrote: Google had no problem: http://www.shipcom.com Bob M. == --- Paul Yonge [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does anyone know what happened to the maritime station WLO? Was it a casualty of the Gulf storms? Paul Yonge W2ARK
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic (but with on topic questions): NTIA propaganda
Mike Morris WA6ILQ wrote: In the USA the 60-66MHz range is television channel 3, the 66-72MHz range is TV channel 4, the 72-76MHz frequencies are used as Operational Fixed / Repeater frequencies (essentially commercial point-to-point links), 76-82MHz is TV channel 5 and 82-88MHz is TV channel 6. Might want to keep that in mind... lets see how many areas have 3, 4, 5 an 6 freed up. Mike WA6ILQ Fell quite a bit behind in this group...|cP Cleveland Ch3 has its DTV on Ch2 right now (you think you guys with an analog Ch2 have problems on 6M? You ain't seen nothin'! 30-40dB of desense spread across 2 MHz-and that's AFTER EXTENSIVE filtering at the TV station!) They will be moving everything to Ch17. I don't know about Ch5 yet, but I think they are moving too. However, Ch8 is staying. Their DTV is on UHF now, and will be shut down.
[Repeater-Builder] Off Topic (but I don't know who else to ask)
Does anyone know what happened to the maritime station WLO? Was it a casualty of the Gulf storms? Paul Yonge W2ARK
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic (but with on topic questions): NTIA propaganda
MCH wrote: will free up airwaves for use by emergency responders.??? The TV spectrum is being freed up by ANALOG stations and the SAME SPECTRUM will be reused by DIGITAL stations. The only spectrum being freed up by TV for PS use is on the 764 MHz + band. (two TV channels, I believe) and has nothing to do with a transition to digital. The same could have been achieved by simply moving those analog stations to other channels. An analog allocation is 6 MHz. A digital allocation is 6 MHz. How is digital saving spectrum? Most VHF analog stations are using UHF for their Digital broadcast. Channel 6 Johnstown is 34 UHF Channel 2 PGH is now on 25 UHF Channel 4 PGH is on 51 (I think) UHF stations have been allocated a different channel for their DTV 53 PGH is on 43 UHF (I think) While it was told that ALL VHF television would move to UHF, I don't believe that is going to be reality. I could be wrong, however Kevin
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic (but with on topic questions): NTIA propaganda
While it was told that ALL VHF television would move to UHF, I don't believe that is going to be reality. I could be wrong, however My local channel 12 is moving to channel 9 with the digital transition... 73, Paul N1BUG
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic (but with on topic questions): NTIA propaganda
Reality Channels 2-13 will mostly be vacant. There are a small number of stations that will revert back to their hi VHF channel after Feb 17. Hi VHF channels 7-13. Here in Tucson only one station will revert back to their original channel. KGUN on 9. Other VHF stations in Tucson, 4,6,11 13 are all going to stay on their UHF assignment. On the UHF side, stations will pack the 14 through 52 spectrum. Channels 53 through 69 will be given up. Broadcasters are really wanting this mess to be over. My former station, KVOA is spending more than twice as much on elect, cooling etc running two transmitters. One on 4 and one on 23. The stations all want to stop the bleeding of money. The only monkey wrench I can see is congress mandating that we do not turn of on Feb 17, 2009. There seems to be some in congress that feel it isn't going to work. Only time will tell. Ralph -- Original message -- From: Kevin Custer [EMAIL PROTECTED] MCH wrote: will free up airwaves for use by emergency responders.??? The TV spectrum is being freed up by ANALOG stations and the SAME SPECTRUM will be reused by DIGITAL stations. The only spectrum being freed up by TV for PS use is on the 764 MHz + band. (two TV channels, I believe) and has nothing to do with a transition to digital. The same could have been achieved by simply moving those analog stations to other channels. An analog allocation is 6 MHz. A digital allocation is 6 MHz. How is digital saving spectrum? Most VHF analog stations are using UHF for their Digital broadcast. Channel 6 Johnstown is 34 UHF Channel 2 PGH is now on 25 UHF Channel 4 PGH is on 51 (I think) UHF stations have been allocated a different channel for their DTV 53 PGH is on 43 UHF (I think) While it was told that ALL VHF television would move to UHF, I don't believe that is going to be reality. I could be wrong, however Kevin ---BeginMessage--- MCH wrote: will free up airwaves for use by emergency responders.??? The TV spectrum is being freed up by ANALOG stations and the SAME SPECTRUM will be reused by DIGITAL stations. The only spectrum being freed up by TV for PS use is on the 764 MHz + band. (two TV channels, I believe) and has nothing to do with a transition to digital. The same could have been achieved by simply moving those analog stations to other channels. An analog allocation is 6 MHz. A digital allocation is 6 MHz. How is digital saving spectrum? Most VHF analog stations are using UHF for their Digital broadcast. Channel 6 Johnstown is 34 UHF Channel 2 PGH is now on 25 UHF Channel 4 PGH is on 51 (I think) UHF stations have been allocated a different channel for their DTV 53 PGH is on 43 UHF (I think) While it was told that ALL VHF television would move to UHF, I don't believe that is going to be reality. I could be wrong, however Kevin ---End Message---
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Off Topic (but with on topic questions): NTIA propaganda
At 1/6/2008 09:10, you wrote: Broadcasters are really wanting this mess to be over. My former station, KVOA is spending more than twice as much on elect, cooling etc running two transmitters. One on 4 and one on 23. The stations all want to stop the bleeding of money. I thought that the broadcasters would actually fight this, as there will definitely be a reduction in OTA viewership (hence ratings, hence advert. $$$) the second the analogs are switched off. I own 5 non-DTV TVs (not including an old Watchman), since satellite TV is unaffected I will probably forget the mostly useless OTA programming (I don't/won't pay for locals via the dish) continue to watch std. def. TV via the dishes. Bob NO6B
