[sage-devel] "SageMath will replace Maple"
One tiny step toward our mission statement... -- Forwarded message -- From: Jori Mäntysalo Date: Wed, Nov 15, 2017 at 1:29 AM Subject: Sage and supercomputer Might be of interest to know. Taito is the second biggest computer in Finland, 17704 computing cores in total. -- Jori Mäntysalo -- Forwarded message -- Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2017 11:13:51 +0200 (EET) Subject: [taito-users] SageMath will replace Maple on Taito at December 1, 2017 Dear Taito user, There will be changes in the available mathematics software on Taito. The usage of Maple will end at November 30, 2017 and it will be removed from the CSC's scientific software collection. The open source software SageMath (http://www.sagemath.org/index.html, https://research.csc.fi/-/sagemath) will replace Maple. -- William Stein Professor of Mathematics University of Washington http://wstein.org -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[sage-devel] Fwd: Sage at 2016 MAA Project NExT Networking Lunch
Is any Sage dev going to the MAA Mathfest? If so, email Alissa below. -- Forwarded message -- From: Crans, Alissa <acr...@lmu.edu> Date: Fri, May 13, 2016 at 9:23 PM Subject: RE: Sage at 2016 MAA Project NExT Networking Lunch To: William A Stein <wst...@uw.edu> Hi William, I hope you're doing well. I still haven't been able to find someone coming to MathFest who would be able to represent Sage to the new MAA Project NExT Fellows. Can you think of anyone else I might invite? I know that Sage is very popular amongst this group and I would hate for it not to be represented at our lunch. Thanks for your time, alissa ____ From: William A Stein [wst...@uw.edu] Sent: Friday, April 22, 2016 6:33 PM To: Crans, Alissa Cc: bee...@ups.edu; karl.cris...@gordon.edu Subject: Re: Sage at 2016 MAA Project NExT Networking Lunch I won't be there either, but thanks! On Fri, Apr 22, 2016 at 12:14 PM, Crans, Alissa <acr...@lmu.edu> wrote: > Dear Rob, Karl, and William, > > I hope this message finds you well. > > I'm writing to invite you to attend the second annual MAA Project NExT > Networking Lunch for the 2015-16 and 2016-17 Fellows during MathFest 2016 in > Columbus, OH and represent Sage. The purpose of the lunch is to introduce > the new Fellows to the variety of resources in the mathematical community. > > The lunch will be held on Wednesday, August 3, 2016 from 12 - 1:30 pm. Lunch > will be provided and you will have table space for a sign and computer. > Unfortunately we are unable to offer you access to MathFest or funding to > attend the lunch if this would require you arriving earlier to MathFest than > you were planning to do. > > Please let me know if you have any questions. In order to facilitate our > planning, please let me know by Wednesday, May 4 whether you will be able to > attend. If you are unable to attend, could you suggest someone else that > might be available to represent Sage? Thank you very much. We look forward > to having you come introduce the new Fellows to the numerous resources > available to them in our community! > > Best, > Alissa Crans > Associate Director, Project NExT -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sage-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] Question about Arbitrary Precision Logarithms And Number of Correct Digits
On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 7:34 AM, kcrisman kcris...@gmail.com wrote: I ran exactly into this some time ago while sanity-checking some high-precision MPFR computations with the results of Wolfram Alpha (which also wraps real literals into its own, I presume exact, representation). Default precision for reals is 53 bits, if I recall correctly, so the extra zeros are assumed. It's not the *default* precision, but the minimum precision. There is no default. The number of bits of precision is determined by the number of digits you enter.However, it would be dumb if 1.5 had way too few bits of precision, so precision is determined by number digits entered with a minimum of 53 bits. sage: 1.2908240834908209348208340283482394820384028340823048203480238.prec() 206 sage: 1.5.prec() 53 That we print all the trailing zeros is to be more explicit about the precision. Compare: sage: 1.5 1.50 sage: float(1.5) 1.5 In Python all floats have the same precision, so you get no extra information by seeing trailing zeros. In sage you do: sage: RealField(300)(1.5) 1.5 sage: 1.5 1.50 And no discussion about precision is complete without mentioning RealIntervalField: sage: RealIntervalField(300)(1.5) 1.500? -- William On 3 October 2014 11:42, Volker Braun vbrau...@gmail.com wrote: Real literals are wrapped in their own type on the Sage command line, they are not hardware-floats (like in plain Python): sage: 0.001 0.00100 sage: type(_) type 'sage.rings.real_mpfr.RealLiteral' I am curious, why the extra zeroes in that representation in the second line? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- William Stein Professor of Mathematics University of Washington http://wstein.org wst...@uw.edu -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] Re: default ellipse color
On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 10:47 PM, kcrisman kcris...@gmail.com wrote: Another 3d-plotting direction is the webgl-enabled JSmol, which is actually pretty. It would be easy enough to integrate, though right now the upgrade is stuck in he java applet mud ;-) Keeping in mind that I'm talking about the non-webgl one, I guess? But not everyone knows how to enable webgl in their browsers, I've found by long frustration - I don't know that it's default. Or is it now? WebGL is available on the latest versions of all major browsers (even mobile), though with some minor issues: http://caniuse.com/#feat=webgl 2d Canvas is solidly available on all modern browsers: http://caniuse.com/#feat=canvas Hence at least the 3d in SageMathCloud should work on everything with no weirdness. My student Andrew Ohana is now working on making SMC's 3d renderer into a standalone BSD-licensed project, which can be integrated into IPython notebook. Totes. But the version currently at #16004 isn't held up by java, but by different browsers not wanting to take the data from localhost or something. If you can fix this easily, that would be very awesome - I have a branch just waiting to try it out again. The jsmol stuff really works fine otherwise, I like it. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- William Stein Professor of Mathematics University of Washington http://wstein.org wst...@uw.edu -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] Re: default ellipse color
On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 8:55 AM, kcrisman kcris...@gmail.com wrote:
Here is yet another bug. It seems that in Sage-5.0.beta.x with the
new notebook code, the default color picker interact control is
completely broken. For me, this doesn't work at all:
@interact
def f(n=Color('red')):
print n
Hah, finally one I definitely can't claim responsibility for!
This apparently just hasn't made the news cycle. I finally opened an
upstream ticket at https://github.com/sagemath/sagenb/issues/239
If it makes you feel better, your idea to go to `colorpicker` as default in
Trac 9000 was good, because that DOES work. Apparently never properly kept.
There isn't even stable documentation on this right now, disgusting...
anyway, fixing the default is easy. I don't like color picker as much as
jpicker, but at least it works in this browser. And I now accidentally
committed this change in sagenb, hopefully ppurak or andrey will
retroactively agrees it works and doesn't break anything.
- kcrisman
For what it is worth, I use this color picker in SageMathCloud:
http://www.eyecon.ro/bootstrap-colorpicker/
It was the only one I could find last year that worked on mobile,
desktop, and looked reasonably pretty.
It depends on bootstrap, and I had a student hack on it to get it to
work with Bootstrap 3. Our modified version is available if somebody
wants it...
William
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Re: [sage-devel] Re: Proposal: remove SAGE_UPGRADING
On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:01 PM, Dima Pasechnik dimp...@gmail.com wrote: On 2014-09-29, Volker Braun vbraun.n...@gmail.com wrote: I propose to remove the SAGE_UPGRADING variable and make it act like it would be always yes (instead of no, which is the current default). Right now, we sabotage make to not rebuild dependencies of rebuilt packages. So you don't have to wait long for your broken Sage installation. The only sane alternative would be to have it default to yes, but I don't really think that we really need something with such a narrow use case. You can of course always only individual packages (sage -f) and only the sage library (sage -b) if you are feeling lucky. But make should really produce something that works IMHO. +1 (just got bitten by that, again :-)) +1 -- that's how I had naively hoped it already worked, and I don't want to get bit by this ever, and I have a fast enough computer -- William Stein Professor of Mathematics University of Washington http://wstein.org wst...@uw.edu -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[sage-devel] sage days 6 video
Hi, I finally made the Sage Days 6 [1] (Bristol, UK) videos available: http://wiki.sagemath.org/days6/videos Some are amusing, especially the developer interviews that Ondrej Certik ran around doing... [1] http://wiki.sagemath.org/days6 -- William -- William Stein Professor of Mathematics University of Washington http://wstein.org wst...@uw.edu -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] Best way to store a database?
On Saturday, September 27, 2014, Travis Scrimshaw tsc...@ucdavis.edu wrote: It is, but in a totally outdated version. I am not sure whether there is a ticket for upgrading it. We should delete the optional package entirely. Just encourage people to pip install it instead. The same goes for every optional package that is in pypi. Quite true. What we've done for FindStat is use easy_install in the Sage shell to upgrade it after installing the optional spkg (and deleting the old egg information). Best, Travis -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','sage-devel%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com'); . To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','sage-devel@googlegroups.com');. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- William Stein Professor of Mathematics University of Washington http://wstein.org wst...@uw.edu -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] Best way to store a database?
On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 12:22 PM, mmarco mma...@unizar.es wrote: How long ? Around five seconds in a very fast SSD disk. What kind of Python/Sage object do you want to store at the end ? Dictionaries of strings (easy to store in a SQL table) or less standard Sage objects ? What takes most processing time, parsing the file or creating Sage adequate objects from well stored strings ? Is the data in the upstream RDF database organised as a graph and will you use this structure in your queries (in which case relational SQL may not be appropriate, note that python has libs for dealing with RDF instead of parsing it as raw text) ? What kind of queries will the database deal with ? Are the kind of queries already stored on the upstream file or should you preprocess new columns for better performance ? Will the queries involve testing properties on complex Sage objects or looking for existence of string and comparing integers ? The file contains basically lines of the form: knot name / invariant name /invariant value Of course the invariant values are stored as strings, but we need to convert them to objects like polynomials. The main idea i had was to be able to identify a knot. That is, given an arbitrary knot by the user, compute the corresponding invariants, and then look at the database for possible candidates (that is, knots with the same invariants). That means that we would need fast comparisons against the objects stored in the database. Or if the data types are standard (e.g., integers, floats, etc.), then you can build an index. This is a 1-liner in SQLite, and makes queries super-fast. William Of course it could also be used on the opposite direction: to construct knots in sage just by their identifier in the database. Also, the answer may depend on whether the upstream database is evolving fast and whether you will ensure long-term maintenance of the package. Depending on this, an option could be to have a command within Sage that fetches, parses/preprocess (if there is a benefit), and store the database on user's demand. This can be compatible with offering a preprocessed package as well if preprocessing takes more time than fetching (like distributing sources vs distributing binaries). I think the upstream datbse is essentially stabilized. Maybe at some point they could add more knots to the database, but doesn't seem likely. Ciao, Thierry -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- William Stein Professor of Mathematics University of Washington http://wstein.org wst...@uw.edu -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[sage-devel] Sage package bash?
On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 7:06 AM, John Cremona john.crem...@gmail.com
javascript:; wrote:
On 26 September 2014 14:59, Dima Pasechnik dimp...@gmail.com
javascript:; wrote:
From the noises I hear, in particular on our departamental email,
sysadmins might be tempted to rm -f /bin/bash
from any place they can get their hands on.
It might mean that for building/working with Sage one will need a
separate install of bash.
(or we should switch to another shell...)
I just updated the ubuntu systems I administer and the problem went
away. Here is a diagnistic I found online:
jec@lmfdb:~$ x='() { :;}; echo VULNERABLE' bash -c :
bash: warning: x: ignoring function definition attempt
bash: error importing function definition for `x'
On a vulnerable system, it outputs VULNERABLE.
1. John: My impression is that certain people are so panicked about this
(perhaps rightfully so, who knows), that they are paranoid
that even though the above worrisome behavior doesn't occur, something
similar will.
2. Dima -- do we specifically use bash features in the build scripts of
Sage?
John
Dima
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Re: [sage-devel] Best way to store a database?
On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 8:48 AM, mmarco mma...@unizar.es wrote: I am working on an optional package for the knot atlas. The idea is to download the database of knots and links and be able to query it. I have downloaded a +300MB .rdf file from the knot atlas web page. Juyst parsing it takes a bit. Which would be the right format to store that information in a way that is fast to access? Or is it better to just use the file provided by upstream and parse it every time? It depends on what you're doing. If you can use SQLITE [1] then it is pretty much the optimal solution to the above problem.(I say can use, since SQLITE is awesome when it is applicable to a problem, but it might not be since it doesn't use a client/server model.) Python has excellent SQLITE support. I usually just use [2] directly, though there are object relational mappers (I don't recommend that if you care about performance). [1] http://www.sqlite.org/ [2] https://docs.python.org/2/library/sqlite3.html -- William Stein Professor of Mathematics University of Washington http://wstein.org wst...@uw.edu -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] Best way to store a database?
On Friday, September 26, 2014, Julien Puydt julien.pu...@laposte.net wrote: Hi, Le 26/09/2014 22:18, mmarco a écrit : So i take it would require sqlite as a dependency? or is it already shipped with sage by default? It is shipped (quite recent), To clarify - we have included sqlite with sage since at least 2007. and with python bindings (sqlalchemy -- that one a little old). Just to clarify: Python itself has built-in bindings to sqlite, which of course are built as part of sage. Sqlalchemy is NOT python bindings to sqlite. Instead it is an ORM - A Library that maps python objects to relational database data.I highly recommend NOT using sqlalchemy for such a specific high performance math research application. It is aimed much more at things like web applications... I do very highly recommend just going to the sqlite website and learning about it directly. It's often fastest to create a CSV file (say) and directly read it in rather than using the python interface. Sqlite is a fantastic high quality piece of software when it makes sense to use it. Snark on #sagemath -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- William Stein Professor of Mathematics University of Washington http://wstein.org wst...@uw.edu -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] Why I don't think Sage has failed as a replacement for Maple, Mathematica and other Ma*'s
On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 11:33 PM, Chris Seberino cseber...@gmail.com wrote: I read W. Stein's blog on why he thinks Sage is failing since it isn't on par with Maple, Mathematica and other Ma*'s *now*. Just to slightly clarify -- my concern is not that Sage isn't on par with the Ma's now. My concern is that at the current rate of progress, Sage will not be on par with Magma in terms of functionality 10 years from now. This is a genuine problem, given the mission statement for the project. I personally know of numerous people who can't use Sage for their mathematics work specifically because of missing functionality. I teach high schoolers and college students. At that level Sage is more than adequate as a replacement for all Ma*'s now. I happily don't dispute this. Though I think we need way better documentation, e.g., more items like Gregory Bard's Sage for Undergraduates [1]. [1] http://www.gregorybard.com/sage_for_undergraduates_color.pdf.zip If it encourages anybody..I think the problem is a lot of the core developers are light years ahead of the rest of the world in their advanced cutting edge math knowledge. There are certainly numerous core developers who are on the forefront of mathematical research. For us mere mortals, Sage has definitely helped humanity and will continue to. Also, what percent of present and future Sage users do you think are in the mere mortals group? 90%? 99%? Probably about 99% of Sage users are mathematics undergraduate/high school students, i.e., exactly the people you're talking about in this email. Numerically, they are certainly the vast majority of Sage users. (I'm not making this up -- I have hard data.) Imagine a few billion poor students in third world countries all having access to quality computer algebra assisted math instruction thanks to Sage! We should all wish to make such an impact on the world!!! Please everyone stop getting down because Sage isn't on top of the hill for the advanced 5% of users. The world needs and wants Sage. It elevates the entire human race. Many thanks for the kind words and encouragement. That said, numerics aside, I personally very much want Sage to be a viable alternative to Magma (at least) for research mathematicians. There may not be an enormous number of research mathematicians in the world, but supporting them is potentially extremely valuable to society. Sincerely, Chris -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- William Stein Professor of Mathematics University of Washington http://wstein.org wst...@uw.edu -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] Re: Why I don't think Sage has failed as a replacement for Maple, Mathematica and other Ma*'s
On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 11:26 AM, Jan Groenewald j...@aims.ac.za wrote: Hi On 25 September 2014 20:01, kcrisman kcris...@gmail.com wrote: I read W. Stein's blog on why he thinks Sage is failing since it isn't on par with Maple, Mathematica and other Ma*'s *now*. I teach high schoolers and college students. At that level Sage is more than adequate as a replacement for all Ma*'s now. I am curious as to what parts of Sage you use. I suspect you are using it mostly as a front-end to Maxima, In which case -- have you considered using Maxima directly, esp. wxmaxima? Thanks for any info. My hope is that the open-source math ecosystem can have this attitude in general - it's not a zero-sum game by any means, at least not at this time. And so there are some things that Maxima is not as well suited for as Sage - and yes, many people use those things. Or perhaps some instructor needs an interface thing. Or (and truly this is nontrivial) the underlying programming language *does* make a difference, and Python is just ... easier. (For instance, one of my current students learned to program on paper, I am told. She did not use a computer for it until she arrived here and now she actually knows how to use Python after three weeks - I was not the teacher, btw.) And it was quite likely Pascal being learnt on paper. For what it is worth, my first programming language was C learned on paper, probably around 1981. I had no access to a computer, but I knew how to read, and somehow obtained a book on C, which I read and simulated. -- William Regards, Jan -- .~. /V\ Jan Groenewald /( )\www.aims.ac.za ^^-^^ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- William Stein Professor of Mathematics University of Washington http://wstein.org wst...@uw.edu -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[sage-devel] Re: [sage-cloud] Install SciLab components create/enable %julia for worksheets?
Hi,
I fixed the scilab problem. Restart your Sage Worksheet Server
(lower left in project settings) to see the fix (and scilab now
working). Note that output in worksheets looks a little funny, due to
control codes.
The scilab problem was a bug in Sage... or rather something in the
command line options to scilab changed as scilab evolved, and Sage
didn't keep up.
I posted something to the Sage trac about this:
http://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/17043
I would really appreciate it if somebody could make this into a proper
branch, etc. and make sure it gets into sage. I put the 2-line patch
in the ticket description. Unfortunately, these days that's
a ton of extra work beyond just posting what needs to be changed, and
I would rather spend time working on SMC itself.
Similar remarks apply about
http://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/17044
which fixes (changing just a few characters) a longstanding
permissions issue that broke many pexpect interfaces for a system-wide
install, and in particular broke the scilab interface.
-- William
On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 9:55 AM, rickhg12hs rickhg1...@gmail.com wrote:
Okay, great. Thanks! I hope you get the grant.
I was concerned that bringing up two issues in one post (a bad practice)
might mean both weren't addressed.
On Thursday, September 25, 2014 12:07:35 PM UTC-4, Stein William wrote:
On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 3:56 AM, rickhg12hs rickh...@gmail.com wrote:
Just tried this again in a new worksheet and it still does not work.
Is this an SMC issue? A documentation issue?
It's an SMC issue. It's also an I-had-to-write-a-grant-proposal this
week issue.I finished the grant proposal last night, so back to
SMC work.
On Monday, September 22, 2014 7:36:57 PM UTC-4, rickhg12hs wrote:
Could you please tell us which commands you tried?
I tried what appears in the help message:
scilab?
File:
/usr/local/sage/sage-6.3.beta6/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/sage/interfaces/scilab.py
Docstring:
Interface to the Scilab interpreter.
EXAMPLES:
sage: a = scilab('[ 1, 1, 2; 3, 5, 8; 13, 21, 33 ]')#
optional - scilab sage: b = scilab('[ 1; 3; 13]')
# optional - scilab sage: c = a * b
# optional - scilab sage: print c
# optional - scilab
30. 122. 505.
a = scilab('[ 1, 1, 2; 3, 5, 8; 13, 21, 33 ]')
Error in lines 1-1
Traceback (most recent call last):
File
/projects/b376311d-43f7-4cb0-9b91-47ae46f504f2/.sagemathcloud/sage_server.py,
line 828, in execute
exec compile(block+'\n', '', 'single') in namespace, locals
File , line 1, in module
File
/usr/local/sage/sage-6.3.beta6/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/sage/interfaces/interface.py,
line 199, in __call__
return cls(self, x, name=name)
File
/usr/local/sage/sage-6.3.beta6/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/sage/interfaces/expect.py,
line 1312, in __init__
self._name = parent._create(value, name=name)
File
/usr/local/sage/sage-6.3.beta6/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/sage/interfaces/interface.py,
line 389, in _create
self.set(name, value)
File
/usr/local/sage/sage-6.3.beta6/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/sage/interfaces/scilab.py,
line 309, in set
out = self.eval(cmd)
File
/usr/local/sage/sage-6.3.beta6/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/sage/interfaces/scilab.py,
line 276, in eval
s = Expect.eval(self, command,
**kwds).replace(\x1b[?1l\x1b,).strip()
File
/usr/local/sage/sage-6.3.beta6/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/sage/interfaces/expect.py,
line 1229, in eval
for L in code.split('\n') if L != ''])
File
/usr/local/sage/sage-6.3.beta6/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/sage/interfaces/expect.py,
line 823, in _eval_line
self._start()
File
/usr/local/sage/sage-6.3.beta6/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/sage/interfaces/scilab.py,
line 263, in _start
Expect._start(self)
File
/usr/local/sage/sage-6.3.beta6/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/sage/interfaces/expect.py,
line 450, in _start
raise RuntimeError(Unable to start %s%self.name())
TypeError: Unable to start scilab
%scilab
b = [ 1, 1, 2; 3, 5, 8; 13, 21, 33 ]
Error in lines 1-1
Traceback (most recent call last):
File
/projects/b376311d-43f7-4cb0-9b91-47ae46f504f2/.sagemathcloud/sage_server.py,
line 828, in execute
exec compile(block+'\n', '', 'single') in namespace, locals
File , line 1, in module
File
/projects/b376311d-43f7-4cb0-9b91-47ae46f504f2/.sagemathcloud/sage_server.py,
line 863, in execute_with_code_decorators
print code_decorator.eval(code, locals=self.namespace),
File
/usr/local/sage/sage-6.3.beta6/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/sage/interfaces/scilab.py,
line 276, in eval
s = Expect.eval(self, command,
**kwds).replace(\x1b[?1l\x1b,).strip()
File
/usr/local/sage/sage-6.3.beta6/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/sage/interfaces
[sage-devel] Re: [sage-cloud] Install SciLab components create/enable %julia for worksheets?
On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 5:28 PM, rickhg12hs rickhg1...@gmail.com wrote:
Thanks, it seems to be functional now.
As you pointed out, the output can be pretty whacked and print doesn't
like it, but the right numbers appear!
Yep. The output will get fixed too, but that's for a little later...
On Thursday, September 25, 2014 8:10:35 PM UTC-4, Stein William wrote:
Hi,
I fixed the scilab problem. Restart your Sage Worksheet Server
(lower left in project settings) to see the fix (and scilab now
working). Note that output in worksheets looks a little funny, due to
control codes.
The scilab problem was a bug in Sage... or rather something in the
command line options to scilab changed as scilab evolved, and Sage
didn't keep up.
I posted something to the Sage trac about this:
http://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/17043
I would really appreciate it if somebody could make this into a proper
branch, etc. and make sure it gets into sage. I put the 2-line patch
in the ticket description. Unfortunately, these days that's
a ton of extra work beyond just posting what needs to be changed, and
I would rather spend time working on SMC itself.
Similar remarks apply about
http://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/17044
which fixes (changing just a few characters) a longstanding
permissions issue that broke many pexpect interfaces for a system-wide
install, and in particular broke the scilab interface.
-- William
On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 9:55 AM, rickhg12hs rickh...@gmail.com wrote:
Okay, great. Thanks! I hope you get the grant.
I was concerned that bringing up two issues in one post (a bad practice)
might mean both weren't addressed.
On Thursday, September 25, 2014 12:07:35 PM UTC-4, Stein William wrote:
On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 3:56 AM, rickhg12hs rickh...@gmail.com wrote:
Just tried this again in a new worksheet and it still does not work.
Is this an SMC issue? A documentation issue?
It's an SMC issue. It's also an I-had-to-write-a-grant-proposal this
week issue.I finished the grant proposal last night, so back to
SMC work.
On Monday, September 22, 2014 7:36:57 PM UTC-4, rickhg12hs wrote:
Could you please tell us which commands you tried?
I tried what appears in the help message:
scilab?
File:
/usr/local/sage/sage-6.3.beta6/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/sage/interfaces/scilab.py
Docstring:
Interface to the Scilab interpreter.
EXAMPLES:
sage: a = scilab('[ 1, 1, 2; 3, 5, 8; 13, 21, 33 ]')#
optional - scilab sage: b = scilab('[ 1; 3; 13]')
# optional - scilab sage: c = a * b
# optional - scilab sage: print c
# optional - scilab
30. 122. 505.
a = scilab('[ 1, 1, 2; 3, 5, 8; 13, 21, 33 ]')
Error in lines 1-1
Traceback (most recent call last):
File
/projects/b376311d-43f7-4cb0-9b91-47ae46f504f2/.sagemathcloud/sage_server.py,
line 828, in execute
exec compile(block+'\n', '', 'single') in namespace, locals
File , line 1, in module
File
/usr/local/sage/sage-6.3.beta6/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/sage/interfaces/interface.py,
line 199, in __call__
return cls(self, x, name=name)
File
/usr/local/sage/sage-6.3.beta6/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/sage/interfaces/expect.py,
line 1312, in __init__
self._name = parent._create(value, name=name)
File
/usr/local/sage/sage-6.3.beta6/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/sage/interfaces/interface.py,
line 389, in _create
self.set(name, value)
File
/usr/local/sage/sage-6.3.beta6/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/sage/interfaces/scilab.py,
line 309, in set
out = self.eval(cmd)
File
/usr/local/sage/sage-6.3.beta6/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/sage/interfaces/scilab.py,
line 276, in eval
s = Expect.eval(self, command,
**kwds).replace(\x1b[?1l\x1b,).strip()
File
/usr/local/sage/sage-6.3.beta6/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/sage/interfaces/expect.py,
line 1229, in eval
for L in code.split('\n') if L != ''])
File
/usr/local/sage/sage-6.3.beta6/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/sage/interfaces/expect.py,
line 823, in _eval_line
self._start()
File
/usr/local/sage/sage-6.3.beta6/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/sage/interfaces/scilab.py,
line 263, in _start
Expect._start(self)
File
/usr/local/sage/sage-6.3.beta6/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/sage/interfaces/expect.py,
line 450, in _start
raise RuntimeError(Unable to start %s%self.name())
TypeError: Unable to start scilab
%scilab
b = [ 1, 1, 2; 3, 5, 8; 13, 21, 33 ]
Error in lines 1-1
Traceback (most recent call last):
File
/projects/b376311d-43f7-4cb0-9b91-47ae46f504f2/.sagemathcloud/sage_server.py,
line 828, in execute
exec compile(block+'\n', '', 'single
Re: [sage-devel] Printing deprecated functions in gray ?
On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 7:54 AM, Nathann Cohen nathann.co...@gmail.com wrote: Hello everybody ! Here I was deprecating stuff, and I wondered: could we make it explicit in the tab-completion that some functions are deprecated ? In particular, I have to (I am not proud) replace a (now deprecated) designs.orthogonal_array with a (note the terminal 's') designs.orthogonal_arrays. Wouldn't it be cool if typing designs.tab would display the first deprecated function in light gray, so as to mean it's disappearing ? I was wondering how to prevent users from reading the (long) documentation of this function before noticing that it is deprecated when they call it, only to see how the new one works. Maybe you could write at the TOP of the docstring: DEPRECATED Or even make the deprecation decorator prepend that to the docstring automatically? Clearly not critical :-P Nathann -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- William Stein Professor of Mathematics University of Washington http://wstein.org wst...@uw.edu -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] Sage Stack Exchange Site
On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 7:49 AM, Kjetil brinchmann Halvorsen kjetil1...@gmail.com wrote: I have been informed in some communication with SX folks that they do not do this, as a matter of policy. When they first started I guess they may have done so a few times, but definitely not now. So one would have to keep ask.sagemath running in read-only mode or something even if this were done (or lose the questions and answers forever). Or somebody would have to do the transferral manually ... The most important question -- by far -- is: QUESTION: Is that allowed? If we write a script that copies the thousands of questions from ask.sagemath to SX, will they see us running it and ban us?Just because they don't do the important themselves (which would be crazy to expect them to do), doesn't mean we couldn't easily technically do it from a database dump. William Kjetil On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 2:26 PM, kcrisman kcris...@gmail.com wrote: the first step of the project would be to transfer all questions already asked. I have been informed in some communication with SX folks that they do not do this, as a matter of policy. When they first started I guess they may have done so a few times, but definitely not now. So one would have to keep ask.sagemath running in read-only mode or something even if this were done (or lose the questions and answers forever). - kcrisman -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- William Stein Professor of Mathematics University of Washington http://wstein.org wst...@uw.edu -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] Re: [GDML] [gdml] ICERM report and comments
On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 8:14 AM, Volker Braun vbraun.n...@gmail.com wrote: On Tuesday, September 16, 2014 4:08:27 PM UTC+1, kcrisman wrote: For those looking for a laugh, check out http://clochure.org/ . I have to admit, their list of reasons to use it is short, but somehow makes sense when they say it. Not that brackets should replace parentheses everywhere (such as in defining mathematical functions...). Neat, we take one of the ugliest Objective-C syntax elements because, hey, tons of people are already used to the ugly. Lest somebody here is taking clochure seriously -- from their github repo: Clochure was an April Fools day project. Don't take it seriously. The only question is: why did it take Apple so long to let Obj-C die? ;-) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- William Stein Professor of Mathematics University of Washington http://wstein.org wst...@uw.edu -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] Deprecations for changed behaviour
On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 9:58 AM, Jeroen Demeyer jdeme...@cage.ugent.be wrote: Dear sage-devel, we all know that deprecations are good when you remove some functionality (a function, a keyword...). It's not clear to me if there is any deprecation policy for *changing* functionality. I think it should depend on the documented API. In this case... In this case, I am talking about this functionality: sage: x = polygen(GF(7)) sage: k.a = GF(7, modulus=x-2) sage: k.gen() 1 ... the docstring says: Docstring: Return generator of this finite field as an extension of its prime field. Note: If you want a primitive element for this finite field instead, use multiplicative_generator(). The first question is: does this need a deprecation? One would argue that the current behaviour is a bug, but maybe some code depends on this bug (it is hard to imagine how though...). I don't think it needs a deprecation, since you are not changing the documented API. However, if you make this change, I hope you will document it clearly in the API, since there's probably some application you have in mind that would depend on this new behavior. Then if somebody asks the same question in five years, and once to change behavior again, then they *can't* without a deprecation period, because the behavior you just implemented is officially documented. And if we need a deprecation, how to do it? Add a new method newmodulus instead of modulus and deprecate modulus: sage: k.a = GF(7, modulus=x-2) DeprecationWarning: the 'modulus' argument is deprecated, use 'newmodulus' instead which is no longer ignored for prime fields sage: k.a = GF(7, newmodulus=x-2) sage: k.gen() 2 This seems silly, but I cannot think of anything better. Jeroen. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- William Stein Professor of Mathematics University of Washington http://wstein.org wst...@uw.edu -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] Deprecations for changed behaviour
On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 11:11 AM, Jeroen Demeyer jdeme...@cage.ugent.be wrote: On 2014-09-15 19:19, William A Stein wrote: I think it should depend on the documented API. ... the docstring says: Docstring: Return generator of this finite field as an extension of its prime field. Note: If you want a primitive element for this finite field instead, use multiplicative_generator(). I am of course happy that I don't need the deprecation, but I should honestly mention that the docstring for *prime fields* says sage: k = GF(7) sage: k.gen? Type:instancemethod String form: bound method FiniteField_prime_modn_with_category.gen of Finite Field of size 7 File: /usr/local/src/sage-config/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/sage/rings/finite_rings/finite_field_prime_modn.py Definition: k.gen(self, n=0) Docstring: Return a generator of self over its prime field. This always returns 1. Note: If you want a primitive element for this finite field instead, use multiplicative_generator(). Does this change your opinion? I pasted my docstring in from Sage Version 6.2.rc2, Release Date: 2014-05-04, but with sage-6.3 the This always returns 1. appears. So this docstring was *just* changed a month ago (by [1]). If it said This always returns 1. for a long time, that would be different. Since it is so recent, I'm personally willing to be a bit more flexible... -- William [1] http://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/14990 -- William Stein Professor of Mathematics University of Washington http://wstein.org wst...@uw.edu -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[sage-devel] Re: [GDML] [gdml] ICERM report and comments
Does anybody know of any concrete examples of reproducible research failures involving sage, in the spirit of the article? I.e. actual (published?) research math code done in sage version X that can't be run today (in particular either the api of sage changed a lot *or* nobody can build sage version X). Sage is nearly 10 years old and I can't think of any such examples... But it would be helpful to have some so we can improve. I know there are worksheets/snippets of code that don't work in sage 6.3, but that is different. I did have somebody (Peter Sarnak of Princeton) email me specifically wanting to run code from something I did in 2003, which was lost, but that was pre-sage. On Saturday, September 13, 2014, kcrisman kcris...@gmail.com wrote: 7) The application of software engineering is I feel an important thing. I have tried to argue this before, with very little success, suggesting William buy books on the topic for serious developers. I note that this paper makes the same comments. I think that many Sage developers are familiar with these (as has been pointed out before), but the highly distributed nature of Sage development and the fact that no one person can come close to knowing the entire codebase makes applying a lot of these principles very hard. The consensus-driven model Sage uses also makes this challenging - witness the discussion about 0-based versus 1-based permutations... Fred Brooks has some good comments about the bazaar method of development in The Design of Design, though I don't necessarily agree with everything he says there; his point about many supposedly bazaar projects starting with (or continuing with) a very clear vision and design from one person is spot on, and I think that some modules in Sage that have been shepherded largely by one or two people for a long time show this. It would be nice in principle, but in practice there are a lot of constraints - mostly time and the desire to get actual math in Sage - that make stopping all Sage development until everyone has had a proper course in software engineering hard. - kcrisman -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','sage-devel%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com'); . To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','sage-devel@googlegroups.com');. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- William Stein Professor of Mathematics University of Washington http://wstein.org wst...@uw.edu -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[sage-devel] sparse linear algebra in sage
On Sat, Sep 13, 2014 at 11:28 AM, Erik Slivken
wrote:
William-
I am trying to find the eigenvalues of a roughly 1x1 sparse matrix
with entries from {0,1} (and would like to do this for even larger
matrices). I don't know what could be done to increase the speed (right now
it has been running for roughly half a day). But it said to email you to
raise a quota. Also, if there is special faculty access, this is a project
with Chris Hoffman from UW and I am sure he would sign on for more computing
power.
Thanks for your time.
Cheers,
Erik Slivken
P.S. How long should it take to find the eigenvalues of a 1x1
sparse matrix with entries from {0,1}? What about a 10^6x10^6 sparse matrix
with entries in from {0,1}?
Never. Sage doesn't have any easily available sophisticated sparse
linear algebra algorithms, as far as I know. Linbox (which is in Sage
-- a C++ library), might have something; and Cremona's eclib has some
gems hidden in it. I wrote some really stupid sparse linear algebra,
which was sufficient for something I did once. There's several
stages to sparse algorithms, and what is in Sage only implements the
first part -- the endgame, which is to solve a resulting dense
system at a certain point, isn't in sage. Sebastian Pancratz and I
did implement it once
somewhere... (not sure), but it isn't in sage (and it was not easy),
and now Sebastian works at a bank.
Try typing
set_verbose(2)
to see what is happening, if you're using sage.
You should seriously consider searching the web for current available
software for sparse linear algebra. Last I checked, unfortunately,
Sage is definitely not an off-the-shelf solution for anything
nontrivial involving sparse matrices, except for maybe efficiently
storing them.
(I've changed the subject and cc'd some people on this email, in case
anybody knows anything about sparse linear algebra and wants to chime
in.)
William
--
William Stein
Professor of Mathematics
University of Washington
http://wstein.org
wst...@uw.edu
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
sage-devel group.
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For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[sage-devel] Re: sparse linear algebra in sage
On Sat, Sep 13, 2014 at 11:52 AM, William A Stein wst...@uw.edu wrote:
On Sat, Sep 13, 2014 at 11:28 AM, Erik Slivken
wrote:
William-
I am trying to find the eigenvalues of a roughly 1x1 sparse matrix
with entries from {0,1} (and would like to do this for even larger
matrices). I don't know what could be done to increase the speed (right now
it has been running for roughly half a day). But it said to email you to
raise a quota. Also, if there is special faculty access, this is a project
with Chris Hoffman from UW and I am sure he would sign on for more computing
power.
Thanks for your time.
Cheers,
Erik Slivken
P.S. How long should it take to find the eigenvalues of a 1x1
sparse matrix with entries from {0,1}? What about a 10^6x10^6 sparse matrix
with entries in from {0,1}?
Never. Sage doesn't have any easily available sophisticated sparse
linear algebra algorithms, as far as I know. Linbox (which is in Sage
-- a C++ library), might have something; and Cremona's eclib has some
gems hidden in it. I wrote some really stupid sparse linear algebra,
which was sufficient for something I did once. There's several
stages to sparse algorithms, and what is in Sage only implements the
first part -- the endgame, which is to solve a resulting dense
system at a certain point, isn't in sage. Sebastian Pancratz and I
did implement it once
somewhere... (not sure), but it isn't in sage (and it was not easy),
and now Sebastian works at a bank.
Try typing
set_verbose(2)
to see what is happening, if you're using sage.
You should seriously consider searching the web for current available
software for sparse linear algebra. Last I checked, unfortunately,
Sage is definitely not an off-the-shelf solution for anything
nontrivial involving sparse matrices, except for maybe efficiently
storing them.
(I've changed the subject and cc'd some people on this email, in case
anybody knows anything about sparse linear algebra and wants to chime
in.)
He adds Also, I only need the largest eigenvalue, if that makes it easier.
William
--
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University of Washington
http://wstein.org
wst...@uw.edu
--
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[sage-devel] Fwd: [GDML] [gdml] ICERM report and comments
Hi Sage Devs, I just received this email which links to a report about global digital math libraries and also a long and opinionated document by somebody named Nelson Beebe. Since Sage is mentioned a few times in both documents, I thought I would forward them, since maybe some Sage developers might find something of interest. The first document ICERM-2014.pdf seems to aim to be factual and well balanced, whereas I could barely look at the second document entitled ICERM-2014-NOTES.pdf without feeling very annoyed... -- Forwarded message -- From: Nelson H. F. Beebe be...@math.utah.edu Date: Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 5:20 PM Subject: [GDML] [gdml] ICERM report and comments To: g...@mathunion.org The ICERM (Institute for Computational and Experimental Research in Mathematics) workshop led to the production of an 18-page report published on the Web on 28-Aug-2014. I read it, and sent a long reply in e-mail to the authors. One of them suggested that I write up my comments in PDF form, and earlier this week, I did so, adding some polishing and additional information, and numerous Web links. The two reports are available here: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe/icerm There is discussion in both of the desirability of global digital math libraries, the main topic of this mailing list, so I expect that some of you may be interested in the two reports. --- - Nelson H. F. BeebeTel: +1 801 581 5254 - - University of UtahFAX: +1 801 581 4148 - - Department of Mathematics, 110 LCBInternet e-mail: be...@math.utah.edu - - 155 S 1400 E RM 233 be...@acm.org be...@computer.org - - Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USAURL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe/ - --- -- William Stein Professor of Mathematics University of Washington http://wstein.org wst...@uw.edu -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[sage-devel] Fwd: [sage-cloud] Google Summer of Code Alternative
of experience in FOSS projects, mentoring, and academia and can help out wherever we are needed. All mentors can contact us at any time. Do Semester of Code projects have to involve writing code? Generally, student projects at our partner institutions involve programming, so projects with this focus will be most popular and relevant. However, projects involving other areas of software engineering are acceptable, including system design, quality evaluation, testing, documentation, translation etc. Guidelines for submitting project ideas will be provided when the idea submission period launches. What technologies are studied by the Semester of Code students? The students participating in Semester of Code will be studying a range of technologies across the field of computer science. These include: Programming languages such as Java, C++, PHP, Javascript, C#; Web technologies such as HTML and CSS; Database technologies including MySQL and Postgres; System architectures such as Service-Oriented Architectures and MVC; Mobile development for iOS and Android. Project ideas encompassing any of these areas will be well suited to our students, but individual students may also have interest and expertise in other technologies, so don’t feel restricted by these lists when submitting ideas. Thanks, Andrei. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-cloud group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-cloud+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-cloud/634fa2cc-6a7c-47a4-a6f5-300b648573c4%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- William Stein Professor of Mathematics University of Washington http://wstein.org wst...@uw.edu -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] Re: [sage-cloud] Google Summer of Code Alternative
On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 11:06 AM, Harald Schilly harald.schi...@gmail.com wrote: I've already asked on the mentor list about this, but I don't remember any reactions (but I was on a conference and didn't follow everything). IIRC, deadline is this Friday. I can register Sage and see what happens … Woops -- well I'm officially interested in mentoring something in number theory. H On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 6:52 PM, William A Stein wst...@uw.edu wrote: I'm forwarding this to the sage-devel list, since sage-cloud isn't sage (and sage-cloud isn't FOSS, so can't participate in this program), but Sage can. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- William Stein Professor of Mathematics University of Washington http://wstein.org wst...@uw.edu -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[sage-devel] Joint Math Meetings Sage Booth
Hi, If you're going to the JMM in San Antonio in January, and want to help out with the Sage booth (e.g., setup, etc.), I can get you an exhibitor badge, which gives you access to the exhibit hall at extra times (and normal times).Let me know in the next few days. I'll be at the booth a lot. Thanks, -- William -- William Stein Professor of Mathematics University of Washington http://wstein.org wst...@uw.edu -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] About typechecking
On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 7:22 AM, Jori Mantysalo jori.mantys...@uta.fi wrote:
Here is the code for is_isomorphic() on class FinitePoset:
if hasattr(other,'hasse_diagram'):
return . . .
else:
raise ValueError('The input is not a finite poset.')
So for example Posets.PentagonPoset().is_isomorphic(Hello everyone!) gives
the error message as it should.
But why the code doesn't directly check that `other` is of type FinitePoset?
In theory there could be some other structure using hasse diagram at back.
Is there some rationale behind this?
The rational is called duck typing. Check out [1], duck typing is
a style of typing in which an object's methods and properties
determine the valid semantics, rather than its inheritance from a
particular class or implementation of an explicit interface. [...]
When I see a bird that walks like a duck and swims like a duck and
quacks like a duck, I call that bird a duck.
The idea is that somebody could create a completely new different
class that they want to use the above code on. Instead of having to
explicitly change their code to derive from FinitePoset, they just
have to make sure it has a hasse_diagram method, that quacks like a
duck.
I am neither for nor against this approach, and haven't even read the
surrounding code mentioned above. I just thought it would be useful
to add a link to the rationale.
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duck_typing
--
Jori Mäntysalo
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Re: [sage-devel] Re: [sage-cloud] gap on smc; whitelist gap-system.org
On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 11:27 PM, Samuel Lelièvre samuel.lelie...@gmail.com wrote: William Stein wrote: Is there anybody out there whose interested in (greatly) increasing the number of optional gap packages in the optional GAP spkg for Sage? This thread has a lot of info about this.In particular, this would be very beneficial to SageMathCloud... -- William Ideally, the sagecell server(s) at sagecell.sagemath.org and aleph.sagemath.org could also have a fuller GAP, so that it would be a place to play with GAP online. Yes, that's exactly why I'm hoping we improve the Sage gap spkg, rather than me just using BOB (say) on SageMathCloud. I want Sage and all sage-related services to also have a better GAP install. William Samuel -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- William Stein Professor of Mathematics University of Washington http://wstein.org wst...@uw.edu -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-cloud] Re: [sage-devel] Re: gap on smc; whitelist gap-system.org
On Wed, Sep 3, 2014 at 1:44 AM, Dima Pasechnik dimp...@gmail.com wrote: On 2014-09-02, William A Stein wst...@uw.edu wrote: Hi Sage-devs, Is there anybody out there whose interested in (greatly) increasing the number of optional gap packages in the optional GAP spkg for Sage? Probably it would be better to split the optional GAP spkg into parts, otherwise it will be huge... (the current gap_packages*.bz2 is already 27Mb) Sure, that would be fine. E.g., we could have gap_packages-recommended and gap_packages-more or something, i.e., name them in a way that divides them into two. Of course, for SMC I'll just install both. There are also things like missing license info for a number of packages. AFAIK GAP devs were not able to fix this. I'm not sure whether it's OK to impose on such packages the GAP's own license - probably not, as GAP is under GPL, and GPL needs contributor's consent. Yes, the licensing is a big problem, which is why this will only ever be optional, and not something we distribute with Sage. Of course, I don't want any packages that have licenses that mean I can't install them in SMC... There also also few packges which provide interfaces to other systems, like Singular, and they might be tricky to get right within Sage. If there are no other volunteers, I can look into this, but I can't promise a fast completion, as papers+grants have priority in my (publishgrants)||perish case. Maybe you could provide some scratch directions, without doing everything...? Dima This thread has a lot of info about this.In particular, this would be very beneficial to SageMathCloud... -- William On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 3:22 PM, Alexander Konovalov alexander.konova...@gmail.com wrote: On Monday, September 1, 2014 10:30:30 AM UTC+1, Stein William wrote: I'm cc'ing this to sage-devel. It is about GAPs long, long list of packages, most of which we don't include or even package optionally for Sage... On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 3:18 AM, Alexander Konovalov alexander...@gmail.com wrote: On Friday, August 29, 2014 8:06:33 AM UTC+1, Stein William wrote: There are a large number of packages here. http://www.gap-system.org/Packages/packages.html Which ones should I install? All of them? Some of them? Can you ask at the meeting? Do you know if I could install *all* of them, or do some change behavior of Gap and interfere with others? Or, like with Python, possibly increase startup time. Installing all packages will not increase GAP startup time, since they are not loaded (it's not a good idea to load all packages simultaneously). It will only increase the disk space used by GAP. OTOH, the user will be able to use GAP help system to search across manuals of ALL packages installed on the system. Then, since the same packages will be loaded after default GAP startup, the user will have the same experience in both cases. Furthermore, testing the GAP distribution, we ensure that this particular set of packages is fitting together, so I'd not guarantee that tearing it apart will not cause any side effects. Can I use BOB to install all the accepted GAP packages into an existing GAP install? It seems to me that BOB both builds GAP and installs all packages into that GAP. I don't want that -- I instead want to use the GAP I built as part of Sage. Also, in general, my understanding is that installing a GAP package is explained here http://www.gap-system.org/Manuals/doc/ref/chap76.html#X7B6CD527825945CD and basically that says to download the package, extract it, and read/guess/etc. what to do next. In particular, what to do can be anything from nothing, to really complicated, and there's no single script to just run. I was expecting that I could just make a list of packages and type something like gap -i names of packages ... and it would install all of them, like every other package system I've ever used does (e.g., R, Pypi, Sage's, npm, and many others). If BOB can basically do exactly this, then that's very, very cool and a great contribution to GAP. If you could quickly summarize the situation about what BOB can actually do with an existing GAP install, it would be greatly appreciated. (I haven't just tried diving into BOB due to lack of time.) Thanks, -- William Thank you for questions. At the moment, BOB performs a new install, so it's not suitable to update an existing GAP installation. That is a suggestion for the future perhaps, for BOB or for any other package manager for GAP that may appear. I was recommending BOB in response to Samuel saying ... alternatively, would it be possible to have a separate full GAP install?. If you prefer just to add some more packages to the GAP version that is built as part of Sage, and do not want all of them for some reasons, then it would be great at least to ensure that all packages
[sage-devel] Sage Booth -- Joint Math Meetings in January
Hi, In case anybody is curious, there *will* be a Sage booth again at the Joint Mathematics Meetings in Texas this January, and I'll be at the booth pretty much the whole time. Help, etc., will be appreciated. -- William -- William Stein Professor of Mathematics University of Washington http://wstein.org wst...@uw.edu -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[sage-devel] Re: [sage-release] You don't really think that Sage has failed, do you? (a comment about it)
On Tuesday, September 2, 2014, Nicolas M. Thiery nicolas.thi...@u-psud.fr wrote: On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 10:03:52AM -0700, Bill Hart wrote: To my knowledge, the European Union funding agencies did not have a significant stake in the origin and development of Sage, Indeed, and this is by design :-) Well, at least in my little world. My strategy has always been bottom-up. First get people to do the actual work. Then, as minimally needed, look for funding. For its first ten years, *-Combinat was only funded indirectly through research grants that had some computational aspects. In general, the Sage ecosystem has progressively grown big in Europe with little direct funding. Now we have reached a point where it's time to change that! Exactly!! Cheers, Nicolas -- Nicolas M. Thiéry Isil nthi...@users.sf.net javascript:; http://Nicolas.Thiery.name/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com javascript:;. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com javascript:;. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- William Stein Professor of Mathematics University of Washington http://wstein.org wst...@uw.edu -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[sage-devel] Re: SAGE in the cloud and Python 3
On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 8:41 AM, jean-paul@unice.fr wrote: Hi William ! When will SAGE be Python 3 compatible ? I tried with range and it’s still Python 2… Thanks, As far as I know, we currently have no specific concrete plans for transition sage from Python 2 to Python 3. I've cc'd the sage-devel list in case there's something brewing. You could use command-line Python 3 in a terminal on SMC by creating a terminal then typing python3. -- William -- William Stein Professor of Mathematics University of Washington http://wstein.org wst...@uw.edu -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[sage-devel] Fwd: SAGE in the cloud and Python 3
(This is a sage-devel question, not one for me personally or for sage-cloud; please join that mailing list.) For example, Volker remarks There has been some steady progress by Wilfried Luebbe and André Apitzsch to move towards Python 3. Meta-tickets: http://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/16052 http://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/15980 -- Forwarded message -- From: jean-paul@unice.fr Date: Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 9:12 AM Subject: Re: SAGE in the cloud and Python 3 To: William A Stein wst...@uw.edu Ok, but I saw that SciPy and Numpy were Py3 compatible now : http://www.scipy.org/scipylib/faq.html#do-numpy-and-scipy-support-python-3-x So, why ? Isn’t Py3 the obvious future of Python ? Most universities here teach Python 3. Thanks, -jpr Le 2 sept. 2014 à 18:06, William A Stein wst...@uw.edu a écrit : On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 8:41 AM, jean-paul@unice.fr wrote: Hi William ! When will SAGE be Python 3 compatible ? I tried with range and it’s still Python 2… Thanks, As far as I know, we currently have no specific concrete plans for transition sage from Python 2 to Python 3. I've cc'd the sage-devel list in case there's something brewing. You could use command-line Python 3 in a terminal on SMC by creating a terminal then typing python3. -- William -- William Stein Professor of Mathematics University of Washington http://wstein.org wst...@uw.edu -- William Stein Professor of Mathematics University of Washington http://wstein.org wst...@uw.edu -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] Re: [sage-cloud] gap on smc; whitelist gap-system.org
Hi Sage-devs, Is there anybody out there whose interested in (greatly) increasing the number of optional gap packages in the optional GAP spkg for Sage? This thread has a lot of info about this.In particular, this would be very beneficial to SageMathCloud... -- William On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 3:22 PM, Alexander Konovalov alexander.konova...@gmail.com wrote: On Monday, September 1, 2014 10:30:30 AM UTC+1, Stein William wrote: I'm cc'ing this to sage-devel. It is about GAPs long, long list of packages, most of which we don't include or even package optionally for Sage... On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 3:18 AM, Alexander Konovalov alexander...@gmail.com wrote: On Friday, August 29, 2014 8:06:33 AM UTC+1, Stein William wrote: There are a large number of packages here. http://www.gap-system.org/Packages/packages.html Which ones should I install? All of them? Some of them? Can you ask at the meeting? Do you know if I could install *all* of them, or do some change behavior of Gap and interfere with others? Or, like with Python, possibly increase startup time. Installing all packages will not increase GAP startup time, since they are not loaded (it's not a good idea to load all packages simultaneously). It will only increase the disk space used by GAP. OTOH, the user will be able to use GAP help system to search across manuals of ALL packages installed on the system. Then, since the same packages will be loaded after default GAP startup, the user will have the same experience in both cases. Furthermore, testing the GAP distribution, we ensure that this particular set of packages is fitting together, so I'd not guarantee that tearing it apart will not cause any side effects. Can I use BOB to install all the accepted GAP packages into an existing GAP install? It seems to me that BOB both builds GAP and installs all packages into that GAP. I don't want that -- I instead want to use the GAP I built as part of Sage. Also, in general, my understanding is that installing a GAP package is explained here http://www.gap-system.org/Manuals/doc/ref/chap76.html#X7B6CD527825945CD and basically that says to download the package, extract it, and read/guess/etc. what to do next. In particular, what to do can be anything from nothing, to really complicated, and there's no single script to just run. I was expecting that I could just make a list of packages and type something like gap -i names of packages ... and it would install all of them, like every other package system I've ever used does (e.g., R, Pypi, Sage's, npm, and many others). If BOB can basically do exactly this, then that's very, very cool and a great contribution to GAP. If you could quickly summarize the situation about what BOB can actually do with an existing GAP install, it would be greatly appreciated. (I haven't just tried diving into BOB due to lack of time.) Thanks, -- William Thank you for questions. At the moment, BOB performs a new install, so it's not suitable to update an existing GAP installation. That is a suggestion for the future perhaps, for BOB or for any other package manager for GAP that may appear. I was recommending BOB in response to Samuel saying ... alternatively, would it be possible to have a separate full GAP install?. If you prefer just to add some more packages to the GAP version that is built as part of Sage, and do not want all of them for some reasons, then it would be great at least to ensure that all packages listed under the 'PackagesToLoad' user preference in lib/package.gi are included: default:= [ autpgrp, alnuth, crisp, ctbllib, factint, fga, irredsol, laguna, polenta, polycyclic, resclasses, sophus, tomlib ], But the actual list will be larger, since these default packages have some dependencies, as can be seen from the GAP startup information: ┌───┐ GAP, Version 4.7.5 of 24-May-2014 (free software, GPL) │ GAP │ http://www.gap-system.org └───┘ Architecture: x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu-gcc-default64 Libs used: gmp, readline Loading the library and packages ... Components: trans 1.0, prim 2.1, small* 1.0, id* 1.0 Packages: AClib 1.2, Alnuth 3.0.0, AtlasRep 1.5.0, AutPGrp 1.6, Browse 1.8.5, Carat 2.1.4, CRISP 1.3.8, Cryst 4.1.12, CrystCat 1.1.6, CTblLib 1.2.2, FactInt 1.5.3, FGA 1.2.0, GAPDoc 1.5.1, IO 4.3.1, IRREDSOL 1.2.4, LAGUNA 3.6.4, Polenta 1.3.2, Polycyclic 2.11, RadiRoot 2.7, ResClasses 3.3.2, Sophus 1.23, SpinSym 1.5, TomLib 1.2.4 Try '?help' for help. See also '?copyright' and '?authors' gap Ideally, starting GAP from Sage, one should be able to see the same. Best regards Alexander -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group
Re: [sage-devel] Re: [sage-cloud] gap on smc; whitelist gap-system.org
On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 3:40 PM, François Bissey francois.bis...@canterbury.ac.nz wrote: That's a point were I think I should chip in some info. When sage moved to gap 4.5+ I was in pain making a new ebuild for sage-on- gentoo. Initially I was just installing the full gap instead of a trimmed version. Installation takes ages. I have now trimmed things a little bit but it still take ages - but still an improvement. I had to very quickly blacklist xgap, removing it altogether. In gap 4.5.x it would automatically load when gap was started in sage and cause sage to hang. It took us a little while to pinpoint it. https://github.com/cschwan/sage-on-gentoo/issues/189 in particular https://github.com/cschwan/sage-on-gentoo/issues/189#issuecomment-12587392 Installing the rest had an effect on a couple of doctests if I remember correctly but nothing dramatic. Wow, many thanks for sharing your experience! -- William Francois On Tue, 02 Sep 2014 15:22:21 Alexander Konovalov wrote: On Monday, September 1, 2014 10:30:30 AM UTC+1, Stein William wrote: I'm cc'ing this to sage-devel. It is about GAPs long, long list of packages, most of which we don't include or even package optionally for Sage... On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 3:18 AM, Alexander Konovalov alexander...@gmail.com javascript: wrote: On Friday, August 29, 2014 8:06:33 AM UTC+1, Stein William wrote: There are a large number of packages here. http://www.gap-system.org/Packages/packages.html Which ones should I install? All of them? Some of them? Can you ask at the meeting? Do you know if I could install *all* of them, or do some change behavior of Gap and interfere with others? Or, like with Python, possibly increase startup time. Installing all packages will not increase GAP startup time, since they are not loaded (it's not a good idea to load all packages simultaneously). It will only increase the disk space used by GAP. OTOH, the user will be able to use GAP help system to search across manuals of ALL packages installed on the system. Then, since the same packages will be loaded after default GAP startup, the user will have the same experience in both cases. Furthermore, testing the GAP distribution, we ensure that this particular set of packages is fitting together, so I'd not guarantee that tearing it apart will not cause any side effects. Can I use BOB to install all the accepted GAP packages into an existing GAP install? It seems to me that BOB both builds GAP and installs all packages into that GAP. I don't want that -- I instead want to use the GAP I built as part of Sage. Also, in general, my understanding is that installing a GAP package is explained here http://www.gap-system.org/Manuals/doc/ref/chap76.html#X7B6CD527825945CD and basically that says to download the package, extract it, and read/guess/etc. what to do next. In particular, what to do can be anything from nothing, to really complicated, and there's no single script to just run. I was expecting that I could just make a list of packages and type something like gap -i names of packages ... and it would install all of them, like every other package system I've ever used does (e.g., R, Pypi, Sage's, npm, and many others). If BOB can basically do exactly this, then that's very, very cool and a great contribution to GAP. If you could quickly summarize the situation about what BOB can actually do with an existing GAP install, it would be greatly appreciated. (I haven't just tried diving into BOB due to lack of time.) Thanks, -- William Thank you for questions. At the moment, BOB performs a new install, so it's not suitable to update an existing GAP installation. That is a suggestion for the future perhaps, for BOB or for any other package manager for GAP that may appear. I was recommending BOB in response to Samuel saying ... alternatively, would it be possible to have a separate full GAP install?. If you prefer just to add some more packages to the GAP version that is built as part of Sage, and do not want all of them for some reasons, then it would be great at least to ensure that all packages listed under the 'PackagesToLoad' user preference in lib/package.gi are included: default:= [ autpgrp, alnuth, crisp, ctbllib, factint, fga, irredsol, laguna, polenta, polycyclic, resclasses, sophus, tomlib ], But the actual list will be larger, since these default packages have some dependencies, as can be seen from the GAP startup information: ┌───┐ GAP, Version 4.7.5 of 24-May-2014 (free software, GPL) │ GAP │ http://www.gap-system.org └───┘ Architecture: x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu-gcc-default64 Libs used: gmp, readline Loading the library and packages ... Components: trans 1.0, prim 2.1, small* 1.0, id* 1.0
Re: [sage-devel] Re: How practical/useful would a native windows subset be?
Am Sonntag, 31. August 2014 18:15:44 UTC+2 schrieb Volker Braun: Links don't work (home directories on boxen are private now) I'm happy to change any to be public, on a case-by-case basis. I was just having too much trouble with people posting illegal books publicly, then I get contacted by angry publishers and authors. On Mon, Sep 1, 2014 at 1:31 AM, Emil Widmann emil.widm...@gmail.com wrote: Oh, I see. I got reports from people who couldn't donwload my stuff. I was not much interested over the last 2-3 years and from what I can see paradigmas have changed. From postings I read Prof. Stein thinks that commercialising via the SageCloud is the way to go to. That's the way *I'm* going to increase easy availability of Sage. I really hope other people like you will continue to work on and support all ways of gaining access to Sage. William On Sunday, August 31, 2014 2:57:20 PM UTC+1, Emil Widmann wrote: It is all old stuff. Links to sources etc are here: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/sage-windows/yoAcv8W5Fw0 Am Sonntag, 31. August 2014 13:40:03 UTC schrieb Volker Braun: Maybe yes, maybe no. Which steps did you do to get the output? On Sunday, August 31, 2014 2:11:03 PM UTC+1, Emil Widmann wrote: wine should work On Sunday, August 31, 2014 1:00:46 PM UTC, Volker Braun wrote: How do I build it from a script on Linux? On Sunday, August 31, 2014 12:50:52 PM UTC+1, Emil Widmann wrote: Am Freitag, 29. August 2014 07:36:05 UTC+2 schrieb Jori Mantysalo: On Thu, 28 Aug 2014, Emil Widmann wrote: However, can we put VirtualBox and Sage to one .exe? What is really needed is to convert http://wiki.sagemath.org/SageAppliance to be just 1) Download this .exe, 2) Doubleclick it, 3) Ready. Yes, I wrote an installer which included the VirtualBox installer and the Sage Appliance inside one exe. Then THIS is what we need! And of course underlying sage system should start automatically, in headless mode etc, if by all means possible. And open browser, so icon on user's desktop would be shortcut to .bat that just works. And to think little more, maybe have sage binaries installed to virtual drive marked as immutable image or (virtual) disk partition mounted as read-only. here is the link to the Sage Win installer https://www.dropbox.com/s/uq9p60hkttr3ail/Sage-Win-Installer.exe?dl=0 It will install Virtualbox and Sage.ova with one exe installer. it is ca 490 MB size. sage version is outdated and it still contains a full VM with X and desktop, but you can start notebook and then use the windows browser. Enough to test as a protoype. best regards emil -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- William Stein Professor of Mathematics University of Washington http://wstein.org wst...@uw.edu -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] Re: How practical/useful would a native windows subset be?
On Mon, Sep 1, 2014 at 1:38 AM, William A Stein wst...@uw.edu wrote: Am Sonntag, 31. August 2014 18:15:44 UTC+2 schrieb Volker Braun: Links don't work (home directories on boxen are private now) I'm happy to change any to be public, on a case-by-case basis. I was just having too much trouble with people posting illegal books publicly, then I get contacted by angry publishers and authors. This should now work: http://sage.math.washington.edu/home/emil/ On Mon, Sep 1, 2014 at 1:31 AM, Emil Widmann emil.widm...@gmail.com wrote: Oh, I see. I got reports from people who couldn't donwload my stuff. I was not much interested over the last 2-3 years and from what I can see paradigmas have changed. From postings I read Prof. Stein thinks that commercialising via the SageCloud is the way to go to. That's the way *I'm* going to increase easy availability of Sage. I really hope other people like you will continue to work on and support all ways of gaining access to Sage. William On Sunday, August 31, 2014 2:57:20 PM UTC+1, Emil Widmann wrote: It is all old stuff. Links to sources etc are here: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/sage-windows/yoAcv8W5Fw0 Am Sonntag, 31. August 2014 13:40:03 UTC schrieb Volker Braun: Maybe yes, maybe no. Which steps did you do to get the output? On Sunday, August 31, 2014 2:11:03 PM UTC+1, Emil Widmann wrote: wine should work On Sunday, August 31, 2014 1:00:46 PM UTC, Volker Braun wrote: How do I build it from a script on Linux? On Sunday, August 31, 2014 12:50:52 PM UTC+1, Emil Widmann wrote: Am Freitag, 29. August 2014 07:36:05 UTC+2 schrieb Jori Mantysalo: On Thu, 28 Aug 2014, Emil Widmann wrote: However, can we put VirtualBox and Sage to one .exe? What is really needed is to convert http://wiki.sagemath.org/SageAppliance to be just 1) Download this .exe, 2) Doubleclick it, 3) Ready. Yes, I wrote an installer which included the VirtualBox installer and the Sage Appliance inside one exe. Then THIS is what we need! And of course underlying sage system should start automatically, in headless mode etc, if by all means possible. And open browser, so icon on user's desktop would be shortcut to .bat that just works. And to think little more, maybe have sage binaries installed to virtual drive marked as immutable image or (virtual) disk partition mounted as read-only. here is the link to the Sage Win installer https://www.dropbox.com/s/uq9p60hkttr3ail/Sage-Win-Installer.exe?dl=0 It will install Virtualbox and Sage.ova with one exe installer. it is ca 490 MB size. sage version is outdated and it still contains a full VM with X and desktop, but you can start notebook and then use the windows browser. Enough to test as a protoype. best regards emil -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- William Stein Professor of Mathematics University of Washington http://wstein.org wst...@uw.edu -- William Stein Professor of Mathematics University of Washington http://wstein.org wst...@uw.edu -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[sage-devel] Re: [sage-cloud] gap on smc; whitelist gap-system.org
I'm cc'ing this to sage-devel. It is about GAPs long, long list of packages, most of which we don't include or even package optionally for Sage... On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 3:18 AM, Alexander Konovalov alexander.konova...@gmail.com wrote: On Friday, August 29, 2014 8:06:33 AM UTC+1, Stein William wrote: There are a large number of packages here. http://www.gap-system.org/Packages/packages.html Which ones should I install? All of them? Some of them? Can you ask at the meeting? Do you know if I could install *all* of them, or do some change behavior of Gap and interfere with others? Or, like with Python, possibly increase startup time. Installing all packages will not increase GAP startup time, since they are not loaded (it's not a good idea to load all packages simultaneously). It will only increase the disk space used by GAP. OTOH, the user will be able to use GAP help system to search across manuals of ALL packages installed on the system. Then, since the same packages will be loaded after default GAP startup, the user will have the same experience in both cases. Furthermore, testing the GAP distribution, we ensure that this particular set of packages is fitting together, so I'd not guarantee that tearing it apart will not cause any side effects. Can I use BOB to install all the accepted GAP packages into an existing GAP install? It seems to me that BOB both builds GAP and installs all packages into that GAP. I don't want that -- I instead want to use the GAP I built as part of Sage. Also, in general, my understanding is that installing a GAP package is explained here http://www.gap-system.org/Manuals/doc/ref/chap76.html#X7B6CD527825945CD and basically that says to download the package, extract it, and read/guess/etc. what to do next. In particular, what to do can be anything from nothing, to really complicated, and there's no single script to just run. I was expecting that I could just make a list of packages and type something like gap -i names of packages ... and it would install all of them, like every other package system I've ever used does (e.g., R, Pypi, Sage's, npm, and many others). If BOB can basically do exactly this, then that's very, very cool and a great contribution to GAP. If you could quickly summarize the situation about what BOB can actually do with an existing GAP install, it would be greatly appreciated. (I haven't just tried diving into BOB due to lack of time.) Thanks, -- William Best regards, Alexander -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-cloud group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-cloud+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-cloud/f9d3ad3c-4a94-4887-8c47-1f9c2df9bf9f%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- William Stein Professor of Mathematics University of Washington http://wstein.org wst...@uw.edu -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] Re: How practical/useful would a native windows subset be?
On Mon, Sep 1, 2014 at 3:42 AM, Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd) drkir...@kirkbymicrowave.co.uk wrote: On 28 August 2014 16:55, Vincent Delecroix 20100.delecr...@gmail.com wrote: 2014-08-28 17:44 UTC+02:00, Jori Mantysalo jori.mantys...@uta.fi: I am now thinking for example university class using Sage as a part of some course. Teachers don't want to use time for being it-support; students do not try installing Sage, if it SEEMS to be complicated. Note that for teaching/installation there is an alternative: tell the students to come with a USB stick and just clone the sage-debian live (http://sagedebianlive.metelu.net/). It is very easy to use and all students will have exactly the same system. The procedure to duplicate the key is integrated inside the key, so the time to set up 200 keys is in theory just log(200)/log(2) * (time of one install), ignoring the fact that you could clone several keys at once. The key is definitely not set up for development. But it's still doable using a local drive (intensive access to the filesystem on a USB stick will just burn it quickly). It is completely self contained with no it-support needed (except that you need computers that are able to boot on USB). Vincent I can't imagine a single *professional* system admin in a university would want students booting computers from USB sticks. I'm not saying some random lecturer who takes on a system admin role would mind, but from a security point of view, having PCs booting from a USB stick is risky. Malicious software could do any sort of nasty. I've reset passwords on Windows machines doing that - boot Linux, mount the NTFS file system, edit the files. If students have their own laptops, then it is less of a risk, but I would imagine the lecturer would spend all his/her time trying to help a student get his/her laptop to boot from a USB stick. You would need to get into the BIOS for that, and many computers are different about how that works. Of course, the same argument can be made about booting from any form of ISO image, such as a DVD. I'm also personally uncomfortable with the whole USB stick/DVD boot proposal for making Sage easier to use for similar reasons. However, it's important to distinguish between a modern professionally run computer lab (with full disk encryption, BIOS passwords, fast network), etc., and a second-hand lab of older computers in a developing country with crappy or non-existent network, say.There's huge value in the USB/ISO Live linux approach to running Sage in *that* context. Thierry, I'm definitely +1 your efforts, even though I'm not personally likely to use them. If we should feature something more prominently somewhere on the sage website, let me know. -- William Stein Professor of Mathematics University of Washington http://wstein.org wst...@uw.edu -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] Re: [sage-release] You don't really think that Sage has failed, do you? (a comment about it)
On Sat, Aug 30, 2014 at 10:12 AM, Bill Hart goodwillh...@googlemail.com wrote: On Saturday, 30 August 2014 00:35:01 UTC+2, Robert Bradshaw wrote: On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 5:03 AM, Bill Hart goodwi...@googlemail.com wrote: On Friday, 29 August 2014 13:17:40 UTC+2, Volker Braun wrote: First of all, it always saddens me when the ugly head of nationalism rears its head. I thought the time where we only support German science were over... +1 You have misunderstood. When applying for German funding, the rules will naturally state that the project must benefit the people paying for the work, namely German companies and Mutter und Vater taxpayer. When applying for European funding, the rules will naturally state that the funding must benefit the people paying for the work, namely the European Union members. I would say that the beneficiaries are (1) those funded to do the work and (2) all users of the work. It's not like the money would go to the US or even the project. Then the grant would be rejected. The idea that European funds should be used primarily to support an international project *with no direct benefit to European projects* invoked in the grant is patently a non-starter. That's just as bad, in my opinion, as taking public funds to work on a closed source mathematical system! You're a big fan of Julia. However, would you argue that European funds should not be used to support it because it's not a European Project? Yes. Would you argue that American funds should not be used to support Pari, Singular, GAP, etc., etc., because they are not American Projects? I'd say the criteria would be whether Europeans benefit from Julia (and I one could argue from a protectionist economic perspective whether Europeans are the ones being paid to do the work, though I'd just rather pay the best available person). Sadly, if the people judging these grants have this perspective, one might have to sell efforts like sage-combinat as a European project rather than part of Sage. Yes. Would you argue that American funds should not be used to support sage-combinat?(In fact, the NSF has directly funded sage-combinat [1].) Or do you apply a double standard for European funds versus outside funds? And most importantly when you say should above, do you mean: [ ] you think this is the way it *should* be, or [ ] you simply mean that you believe -- via your reading of the EU grant guidelines -- that this is how it *is* right now. There's an enormous difference between these two choices. [1] Linked NSF grant funding sage-combinat (http://www.nsf.gov/awardsearch/advancedSearchResult?QueryText=sage-combinatActiveAwards=true#results): Collaborative Research: SI2-SSE: Sage-Combinat: Developing and Sharing Open Source Software for Algebraic Combinatorics Award Number:1147161; Principal Investigator:Gregg Musiker; Co-Principal Investigator:; Organization:University of Minnesota-Twin Cities;NSF Organization:ACI Award Date:06/01/2012; Award Amount:$195,688.00; Relevance:48.77; Collaborative Research: SI2-SSE: Sage-Combinat: Developing and Sharing Open Source Software for Algebraic Combinatorics Award Number:1147802; Principal Investigator:William Stein; Co-Principal Investigator:; Organization:University of Washington;NSF Organization:ACI Award Date:06/01/2012; Award Amount:$97,114.00; Relevance:48.77; Collaborative Research: SI2-SSE: Sage-Combinat: Developing and Sharing Open Source Software for Algebraic Combinatorics Award Number:1147463; Principal Investigator:Daniel Bump; Co-Principal Investigator:; Organization:Stanford University;NSF Organization:ACI Award Date:06/01/2012; Award Amount:$143,700.00; Relevance:48.77; Collaborative Research: SI2-SSE: Sage-Combinat: Developing and Sharing Open Source Software for Algebraic Combinatorics Award Number:1147247; Principal Investigator:Anne Schilling; Co-Principal Investigator:; Organization:University of California-Davis;NSF Organization:ACI Award Date:06/01/2012; Award Amount:$216,626.00; Relevance:47.98; I, personally, don't see Sage as belonging to Europeans, it belongs to Mathematicians. One of the biggest things European software projects like Pari, Gap, Singular need is contributions. I congratulate Peter Bruin on announcing that he is writing a power series module for Sage based on Pari instead of on polynomials. However, in a project like that, I hope that when some functionality (mathematical or otherwise) is perceived to be missing from Pari, that it will be contributed *to the Pari project directly*. And I don't mean as a set of Sage build patches or bug reports. I mean as a set of Pari contributions, to their code base, in their coding style, instead of writing more code in Sage directly! I strongly disagree that the best (or only) way to contribute to Sage is to contribute to some of its component projects, I didn't say it was. and writing
[sage-devel] speed regression testing
Hi, What's the situation with speed regression testing in Sage? A couple of years ago I think people wrote a regression testing framework (maybe David Roe or Robert Bradshaw?) MOTIVATION: I ask because at Sage Days 61 I keep hearing about how our exact linear algebra in Sage is terrible (with remarks like: 'maybe we need to look into writing our own fast linear algebra'... a road actually well traveled in Sage many years ago), how people are having to use Magma for basic modular symbols computations instead of Sage due to linear algebra speed, and there is this massive patch http://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/16803 about fixing the ridiculously slow dense matrices over ZZ -- which used to be ridiculously fast ?!. So I started looking into 16803 and looks to me like the function _multiply_linbox is like 10-20 times slower than it was when we introduced it as the default for matrix multiplication over ZZ. (see the ticket for timings). I suspect that we're linking linbox incorrectly, which could easily result in this sort of slowdown, since linbox uses a floating point BLAS at a certain point. If we mess up linbox, then tons of stuff all over sage involving linear algebra would be slowed down as a result. E.g., we use linbox for charpoly computations. Anyway, there are a ton of people working on Sage, and even very tiny changes in one part can have speed impacts in far away places... so it would be good if we were to run a speed regression test on each version, compare timings, see if anything dropped in a new version, etc. Does anybody have any relevant code...? That said, regarding 16803, switching to building our dense matrix algebra over ZZ on one single clean modern C library is a great improvement (thanks FLINT'ers and Marc), and if some regressions motivated that, I'm not complaining! William -- William Stein Professor of Mathematics University of Washington http://wstein.org wst...@uw.edu -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] Re: speed regression testing
On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 10:24 AM, Jean-Pierre Flori jpfl...@gmail.com wrote: I don't know for sure, but I think linbox does not link to LAPACK (anymore?). Maybe that make a small difference already. That's precisely what I'm worried about -- not linking lapack would perhaps change linbox from being world class to absolutely terrible. I opened a ticket about that some monthes ago. Thanks! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- William Stein Professor of Mathematics University of Washington http://wstein.org wst...@uw.edu -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] Is 1 a prime power?
On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 10:53 AM, John Cremona john.crem...@gmail.com wrote: pari: ? isprimepower(1) %4 = 0 magma: IsPrimePower(1); ^ Runtime error in 'IsPrimePower': Argument 1 (1) should be = 2 gap IsPrimePowerInt(1); false I'll let others try Maple. That seems like enough of an argument for Sage to return False to me. -- William John On 29 August 2014 09:50, Vincent Delecroix 20100.delecr...@gmail.com wrote: What is the status of 1 in pari, GAP, Maple, Magma, Mathematica? Vincent 2014-08-29 10:31 UTC+02:00, Jeroen Demeyer jdeme...@cage.ugent.be: Personally, I think 1 should not be considered a prime power, but Sage thinks otherwise: sage: 1.is_prime_power() True Of course, one could argue that 1 = p^0 for every prime p... Should this be changed, any opinions? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- William Stein Professor of Mathematics University of Washington http://wstein.org wst...@uw.edu -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] Is 1/2 a prime power?
On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 12:23 PM, John Cremona john.crem...@gmail.com wrote: On 29 August 2014 11:21, Vincent Delecroix 20100.delecr...@gmail.com wrote: I guess Wikipedia is a good source for a definition and it says: In mathematics, a prime power is a positive integer power of a single prime number. So +1 for 1/2 not being a prime power. Though, if we really want to we can add a keyword 'non_positive_powers'. Vincent 2014-08-29 12:18 UTC+02:00, Jeroen Demeyer jdeme...@cage.ugent.be: Usually, with prime powers people mean integers, but in Sage: sage: is_prime_power(1/2) True Even though 1/2 = 2^(-1), I would restrict prime powers to strictly positive integer powers. +1. I cannot imagine the need for checking negative prime powers. If you really cannot imagine a need for checking, then maybe is_prime_power should raise a ValueError (like Magma) on such input, to avoid confusion... william John -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- William Stein Professor of Mathematics University of Washington http://wstein.org wst...@uw.edu -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[sage-devel] Re: [sage-release] You don't really think that Sage has failed, do you? (a comment about it)
On Friday, August 29, 2014, Volker Braun vbraun.n...@gmail.com wrote: First of all, it always saddens me when the ugly head of nationalism rears its head. I thought the time where we only support German science were over... What sets Sage apart from GAP/Singular (and, I dare say: Flint) is the scale and the diversity of its contributors. Saying that it is a US (or European) project is just completely wrong. Huge +1 On Friday, August 29, 2014 11:46:14 AM UTC+1, Bill Hart wrote: This is all to say nothing of the glaring problems, such as the lack of Windows 64 support Wait, did you just do a 180 and say that we should drop everything to boost the market share of a failing north American software company? ;-) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','sage-devel%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com'); . To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','sage-devel@googlegroups.com');. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- William Stein Professor of Mathematics University of Washington http://wstein.org wst...@uw.edu -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] Re: Is 1 a prime power?
Note: If we change is_prime_power, we also have to change the prime_powers function, e.g., sage: prime_powers(10) [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, 9] I use this prime_powers function a lot in my Riemann Hypothesis book (co-authored with Mazur).There's a bunch of code like this: for pn in prime_powers(bound+1): if pn == 1: continue do stuff See -- https://github.com/williamstein/rh/blob/master/rh/code/code.sage In other words, my code would all be a lot cleaner if sage: prime_powers(10) [2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, 9] Stinking deprecation warnings... On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 6:00 PM, Ralf Stephan gtrw...@gmail.com wrote: After unanimous discussion the title of the OEIS entry was changed. https://oeis.org/A000961 Regards, -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- William Stein Professor of Mathematics University of Washington http://wstein.org wst...@uw.edu -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] reddit'ers at it again discussing sage...
On Thu, Aug 28, 2014 at 8:57 AM, Travis Scrimshaw tsc...@ucdavis.edu wrote: Well, I think you didn't understand me or I don't understand you. There is already numpy, scipy and matplotlib in Sage and there is no obstruction whatsoever to use it. One has to turn off the preparser, otherwise you might see really odd errors. I agree (probably needs better documentation). I would change the import directive for numpy to turn the preparser off and print a message about the preparser upon doing so (including how to turn it back on). Ironically, the best way to do this might be to use the preparser. We should not do that. It doesn't make any sense, as numpy gets imported all over in Sage itself. One could maybe print a temporary warning if somebody explicitly imports scipy in an interactive sage session, maybe. What we should do instead is fix things so that numpy/scipy/etc. work even with the preparser enabled. Robert Bradshaw actually already did a lot towards that with numpy already, but there is more left to do. There's nothing at all fundamentally incompatible about the preparser and numpy/scipy/cvxopt. Everything could be sorted out with a few appropriate hooks, maybe some patches, etc. -- William Best, Travis -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- William Stein Professor of Mathematics University of Washington http://wstein.org wst...@uw.edu -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] taskforce: documentation
On Wed, Aug 27, 2014 at 7:15 PM, Harald Schilly harald.schi...@gmail.com wrote: I've read most of the comments which did roll in in the last few days. One repeated topic was about the documentation. I'm curious if there is currently anyone working on improving it? I think the reference documentation is really good. But I can see a definite lack to make it more accessible to new users. Why not starting another branch and collect functionalities in a new way? I have some vague ideas how this could be done and I think it's actually not so complicated - technically. It's harder to get input from different areas and from those who already have experience in teaching Sage in order to produce something really useful. The cornerstones should be, in my eyes, that it is packaged and built along Sage, displayed in a modern web-browser, and all examples are doctested. -- H Yes, that would be great. As some inspiration, there is also Gregory Bard's new book Sage for Undergraduates: http://www.gregorybard.com/SAGE.html William -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- William Stein Professor of Mathematics University of Washington http://wstein.org wst...@uw.edu -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] Re: How practical/useful would a native windows subset be?
On Thu, Aug 28, 2014 at 11:18 AM, Emil Widmann emil.widm...@gmail.com wrote: Am Mittwoch, 27. August 2014 21:00:49 UTC+2 schrieb Travis Scrimshaw: IMO there are three big issues with the current Sage Windows VM: 1 - It's slow because it runs within the VM (which also causes some usability issues with multiple webpages by the OS setup); this also has high memory usage. 2 - It's too big (I think it's something like 3+ GB) 3 - You can't upgrade Sage or really work with different branches as far as I remember. To have such an easy way to get local versions of Sage running on Windows would be a major help for India, Japan, and South Korea -- when I was there last year giving some Sage demos, nearly everyone had a Windows laptop. (Although now I'd just refer them to SMC, but solid internet connections in India can be hit or miss.) Best, Travis Slowness may come due to high memory consumtion on restricted hardware. If you have enough memory to run the virtual machine and bridge the output of the sage VM to the host browser you have almost no speed penalty. Of course in a real world use case with 3-10 year old computers and limited bandwith/memory/diskspace big VM's can become problematic. If you want to develop in sage then maybe the best way to go is a big image. In other cases of just using sage, maybe it is better to use compressed images. @volker braun $ du -sh Sage/ 5.2G Sage/ When I spoke of 700 MB virtual machine I meant the data in a compressed filesystem (e.g. Squashfilesystem with estimated compression rate of 3.5) like most live distributions use. I also removed some files (e.g. docs) from the full sage distribution to make it smaller. Docs can be stored directly in the windows filesystem. This would also mean that such a small version is not perfectly suited for developement (although it can be done), but well suited for just use like teaching. I developed and tested on restricted hardware (e.g. old desktop with 1 GB memory, 2,2 Ghz dual core Processor). I know this topic has been discussed before and it was decided to ship the full blown version as the the official sage VM. Still it is my opinion that I think it might be more accurate to say that Volker, who creates the VM, decided that he only has time to ship a full blown official Sage VM. If somebody, anybody, wants to provide (and regularly update) an additional VM like you describe, I don't see why we wouldn't ship it. William a small image with an optimized userinterface would be the best use of developer hours and skill to improve the sage on windows experience for new users and students. With the exception of using the Cloud, of course. Cheers emil -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- William Stein Professor of Mathematics University of Washington http://wstein.org wst...@uw.edu -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] proposal: remove python spkg and use pip instead
On Thu, Aug 28, 2014 at 11:40 AM, Jean-Pierre Flori jpfl...@gmail.com wrote: On Wednesday, August 27, 2014 9:11:47 PM UTC+2, Jeroen Demeyer wrote: On 2014-08-27 21:01, Julien Puydt wrote: but on a general basis people are quite welcoming of sensible contributions. Depends on the project. Whenever I think a patch is good for upstream, I do submit it upstream. My impression is that, unless upstream knows you personally, bug reports (even with patches) are often ignored. I'm not blaming those projects, but it makes the goal of having unpatched clean upstream sources much less realistic. Jeroen. I do agree with Jeroen, sometimes upstream is not as welcoming as one might hope. But as Jeroen I always do submit patches upstream (unless it seems upstream vanished...). I even struggle to get some reaction from them when it seems they ignored or forgot my proposals. The best response I got so far was from the R folk: https://bugs.r-project.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=15643 Wow, that's incredible: Brian Ripley: Cygwin (and Cygwin64) is not a supported platform. Please do your own homework! In case anyone cares, I googled quickly, and evidently Brian Ripley is a 62-year old Oxford Professor, so you can picture the quote more accurately... -- William Stein Professor of Mathematics University of Washington http://wstein.org wst...@uw.edu -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] When the notebook tries to be smart
On Thu, Aug 28, 2014 at 11:57 AM, Nathann Cohen nathann.co...@gmail.com wrote: Helll everybody ! I am having a small problem. There is a function that is meant to output a big table, and while it works fine in the console it is a mess in the notebook: from sage.combinat.designs.latin_squares import MOLS_table MOLS_table(50,1) This, because the notebook tries to be smart and splits the lines when they are too long. What can I do to avoid that ? Click to the left in the output to toggle whether or not lines are split. Alternatively, output html in a pre environment... Nathann P.S. : Oddly, the same table is correctly displayed in the doc with the notebook: sage.combinat.designs.latin_squares? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- William Stein Professor of Mathematics University of Washington http://wstein.org wst...@uw.edu -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] Re: How practical/useful would a native windows subset be?
On Wed, Aug 27, 2014 at 8:25 AM, Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd) drkir...@kirkbymicrowave.co.uk wrote: On 27 Aug 2014 02:13, Bill Hart goodwillh...@googlemail.com wrote: The biggest problem by far is the upstream projects who do not accept patches into their repositories to support Windows, and aren't willing to make the changes to their codebase to support Windows 64. Nor do they continue to maintain the ports once it is done. I can't say I have ever looked at it, but if true it is an odd attitude. I found *generally* that upstream projects were happy to take Solaris patches. A patch I made for GSL to run on AIX was accepted upstream. I dug up a relevant thread. [1] Here's a real example thread involving a major patch to get pari to build on Windows. You can see the response by the core PARI developers, the issues with build support, etc. [1] http://pari.math.u-bordeaux.fr/archives/pari-dev-0912/threads.html#00011 Near the end B. Allombert says: Hello Vasili, I have applied a variant of you patch: On mingw you can now Configure PARI with ./Configure --datadir=@ and datadir will be set to win32_GPDATADIR() at run-time. This option is used when compiling the daily GP windows binaries starting at svn 12711. In short, it fully supports your argument that at least one upstream project (PARI) is willing to take upstream patches to support windows but you can also read in the thread about the difficulties. It starts with remarks about the pari devs not having windows access. I an no fan of Windows, but with so many programs only working on Windows, or tested more on Windows, I see it as a necessary evil. This attitude in the Open Source community to Windows 64 really bugs me. It's a decade old technology, and not going anywhere. Lots of open source programs run on Windows, and with Windows being more and more 64 bit, they will either have to adapt or A port of Sage to Windows 64 is probably not a viable project. It would take years of effort by numerous individuals to accomplish. And it would bitrot before it was even completed. But the fact that it isn't viable right now doesn't mean that upstream projects shouldn't support Windows 64 so that if Sage ever wants to do such a port, it would be possible. Five projects Sage doesn't have to worry about are: * flint * gmp/mpir * mpfr * gmp-ecm * GNU Scientific library Maxima has a native Windows application, so that would work too. Maxims uses ECL which is very portable. Unfortunately, I don't think Maxima has a library interface, do once that is added, any attempt to make a more consistent user interface would be hampered. We Sage developers (mainly Nils Bruin) wrote a C-library level interface to Maxima, for use by Sage. I don't know if it would be difficult to port that to Windows. It uses ECL = embedded common lisp (where the whole point of *embedded* is that it is easy to embed in other C programs). I understand that Sage uses things like Lisp, Java, Python, Cython, etc. So the above doesn't help much with Sage overall. But perhaps it will help raise awareness for projects that are using C and assembly only. Bill. Call it Mini Sage, foobar or something else, it appears to me a significant subset of Sage could be built into a native application. All of Sage could be built... with *sufficient* work. Everything could be ported and maintained... with sufficient work. But sufficient is really dauntingly huge. Bill only scratched the surface by listing technical problems at the C/C++ level - there's also tons of build system issues as well, longterm maintenance, etc. It's all totally do-able, but very expensive. Anyway, it was just an idea I had. It's a good idea. I had the same one years ago... and that's when Sage started. A problem is that it's too hard today to do something really useful without significant funding (since it's all ugly dirty work, and definitely not research math). Dave. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- William Stein Professor of Mathematics University of Washington http://wstein.org wst...@uw.edu -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] Re: How practical/useful would a native windows subset be?
On Wed, Aug 27, 2014 at 8:41 AM, Harald Schilly harald.schi...@gmail.com wrote: On Monday, August 25, 2014 10:15:41 AM UTC+2, Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd) wrote: It seems Sage really could do with a native windows port. Just my 2 cents (after not really reading the whole thread) What about andLinux, which also has an X server included? http://www.andlinux.org/ ... and since that website looks kind of dead, underneath is coLinux which is still active http://www.colinux.org/ For a while the sage-for-windows distribution I produced was based on colinux/andlinux.The main reason I discontinued support was that every time I watched people install Sage-for-windows via co-linux, I then saw (or heard reports) of it completely crashing MS Windows... repeatedly. Also, getting networking to work properly is a pain... support is much worse than with VirtualBox or VMware. William -- H -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- William Stein Professor of Mathematics University of Washington http://wstein.org wst...@uw.edu -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] How practical/useful would a native windows subset be?
On Wednesday, August 27, 2014, Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd) drkir...@kirkbymicrowave.co.uk wrote: The download size of such a subset would be smaller than the full version and MUCH smaller that a virtual machine image, as one doesn't need to include a complete operating system too. That's not true. E.g., Puppy Linux is around 50MB, and is a complete useful operating system. In fact, I used to build the Sage VM (targeted at windows) using Puppy Linux years ago. -- William OK, but it still doesn't get around the problem one needs to install VirtualBox, and the whole process of installing virtual machines is really alien to a lot of Windows users. Personally I find installing virtual machines quite easy and useful, but it seems to be a barrier for some at least. Dave You are absolutely right about that! I'm.not arguing for VM's here - just pointing out that disk space isn't a priori significantly worse because of that approach. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com javascript:;. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com javascript:;. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- William Stein Professor of Mathematics University of Washington http://wstein.org wst...@uw.edu -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] Re: How practical/useful would a native windows subset be?
I tried to port Sage to mingw once, back when it was easier (2006), and failed already at building Python. There was a huge page with hacks to maybe do it back then, but they weren't working. There's a stackoverflow question now about this problem: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/15365249/build-python-with-mingw-and-gcc Python does not build out of the box with MinGW, let alone for Win64. and another suggests this fork of Python 3.4 that's meant to build on mingw: https://bitbucket.org/puqing/python-mingw but there are issues entitled Build fails on mingw (msys) down the right side of the screen... On Wed, Aug 27, 2014 at 11:05 AM, Jean-Pierre Flori jpfl...@gmail.com wrote: On Wednesday, August 27, 2014 11:00:35 AM UTC+2, Jeroen Demeyer wrote: On 2014-08-27 10:22, Jean-Pierre Flori wrote: Note that cross-compiler running on linux and targetting mingw(64) have been available since mingw(64) is. Many packages in Sage do not support cross-compiling. For example, the Python build toolchain does not really support cross-compiling. Sure, but GMP/MPIR/MPFR/FLINT do. You can even run testsuites using Wine64 :) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- William Stein Professor of Mathematics University of Washington http://wstein.org wst...@uw.edu -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[sage-devel] reddit'ers at it again discussing sage...
http://www.reddit.com/r/math/comments/2eo9ku/sage_open_source_mathematics_software_you_dont/ -- William Stein Professor of Mathematics University of Washington http://wstein.org wst...@uw.edu -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] proposal: remove python spkg and use pip instead
On Wed, Aug 27, 2014 at 3:29 PM, Vincent Delecroix 20100.delecr...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, Now that pip is an optional spkg, I think it would be a good idea to: 1) add some word about it in the documentation 2) use it to replace some of the optional and experimental packages I would like more comments (especially about 2) to see whether or not it is a good idea. If it works, we might even move the pip spkg to standard and use it during the build process. Running quickly through the list of optional packages, we can remove 4 of them: - beautiful soup - pyopenssl - pyqtx - pyzmq which just install nicely through pip. Could we keep backward compatibility by setting a dependency to pip spkg and replace their install script with pip install PACKAGE? For those three ones, we need to set extra options but it works as well: - gnuplotpy - nzmath - pyx (need to use PyX==0.12.1, since it is the last one compatible with python 2) And two packages just fail to install through pip. - pybtex - sip It would greatly simplify the life of package maintainer! Just a +1 from me to this project. When I started the whole spkg business, the state of Python package management was a total mess/disaster. Today with pip things are much, much better. William -- William Stein Professor of Mathematics University of Washington http://wstein.org wst...@uw.edu -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[sage-devel] Re: [sage-release] You don't really think that Sage has failed, do you? (a comment about it)
Thanks for posting this. That said the big SAGE must choose question below doesn't actually make any sense given how sage is developed... On Wednesday, August 27, 2014, kcrisman kcris...@gmail.com wrote: Interesting comment on the post on Facebook. Note the comment about payment as well. +++ In my university, we have been using a sagenb server for three years. We use it in Calculus/Algebra courses for mathematicians, electrical ingenieers, agricultural ingenieers, etc. We really use a few basic commands. If Sage has the 1% functionality or less than Magma, Mathematica, etc, is not a problem for us. Our main problem is that the manual and documentation are a mess, lacking of enough examples (please, why not do something like Mathematica?). Anothe problem is the interface, for instance, you can not select several cells and make copy/paste (I know this is posible with sagemathcloud). Or for instance, it is difficult to avoid that pupils share worksheets in a final individual test. With respect to functionality we have problems with basic graphics (some of them fixed today, to be fair). Still having problems solving basic inequalities. Come on guys, SAGE has A LOT of possibilities that make it for universities a better choice than Mathematica, Maple, etc. But you should take care of interface, manuals and help and basic functionalities. I'm sure that many universities would pay if flexible possibilities of payment are allowed. In my opinión SAGE has to choose: 1. Focus on development of more and new specialiced functionalities. In this case, its users will be a small group of researchers that don't care how rough or how time consuming is to make a few instructions to work properly. Besides, it will be difficult to obtain financing, thus you can compete only in a Little specialized part (magma, mathematica, maple, GAP all together is too ambicious). 2. Focus on basic functionalities on calculus and basic algebra for teaching. They need to be improved (the power of Maxima is poor in inequalities, integrals, numeric series... it is not enough at all). They need also to be user friendly and easy to learn. In this case maybe you can obtain money from universities and with that money, maybe you can work on quaternion algebras. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','sage-devel%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com'); . To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','sage-devel@googlegroups.com');. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- William Stein Professor of Mathematics University of Washington http://wstein.org wst...@uw.edu -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] How practical/useful would a native windows subset be?
On Wednesday, August 27, 2014, Volker Braun vbraun.n...@gmail.com wrote: On Wednesday, August 27, 2014 8:00:49 PM UTC+1, Travis Scrimshaw wrote: But running the VM surely has a speed penalty because it has to go through that big fat layer of the VM? Virtual machines are extremely fast on somewhat-recent hardware due to hardware support. Using the gui inside the VM is somewhat slow since it has to go through the graphics emulation, but if you connect with the OS browser its probably difficult to notice any speed difference. Of course the VM can't be much smaller than this if you want to be able to develop inside it: $ du -sh Sage/ 5.2G Sage/ One remark: that gets knocked almost in half if you use a compressed filesystem (btrfs or ZFS) like I do with SageMathCloud... -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','sage-devel%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com'); . To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','sage-devel@googlegroups.com');. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- William Stein Professor of Mathematics University of Washington http://wstein.org wst...@uw.edu -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[sage-devel] Re: [sage-nt] naming convention: primes, prime_range, prime_powers
On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 3:00 PM, Vincent Delecroix 20100.delecr...@gmail.com wrote: Hello, Right now, we have the following functions - primes: an iterator over primes - prime_range: a list of primes (in Cython) - prime_powers: a list of prime powers - prime_power_range: another function that return a list of prime powers (in Cython from #16880) Given that - we can implement iterator in Cyhon - most function that end with 's' return lists (elliptic_curves, prime_divisors, quadratic_residues, ...) What do you think about: - move everything in Cython in `fast_arith.pyx` - having `primes` and `prime_powers` return lists - having `prime_iterator`and `prime_power_iterator` return iterators (with deprecation and everything) 1. Are you introducing a totally new convention? Does Python put _iterator after function names to emphasize iterators? Do we do that anywhere? In Python 3.x at least, they explicitly try not to name iterators differently. 2. Changing primes to return a list will break every explicit use of primes I've ever used, in all my old code. For example, I might use it like this (say): for p in primes(10^19,10^60): if something(p): break If you change to a list, when I run the code my computer explode. 3. What motivates your suggested changes?I don't see a sufficiently compelling argument for breaking tons of user code in subtle ways yet. Sometimes that is worth doing but in 10 years, I've heard no complaints before about the naming of the above functions, so they probably aren't *horrible*. William Best, Vincent -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-nt group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-nt+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send an email to sage...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-nt. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- William Stein Professor of Mathematics University of Washington http://wstein.org wst...@uw.edu -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[sage-devel] Re: [sage-nt] naming convention: primes, prime_range, prime_powers
On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 3:12 PM, John Cremona john.crem...@gmail.com wrote: Sounds like a reasonable plan if you (or someone) can be bothered to sort out the chenges which will need to be made in code and doctests! Even then, personally I don't like it. See below for a different suggestion that is less intrusive. There will be places where we now have: for p in primes(10^8): do_something_with(p) which will still work when primes() returns a list, so will not result in doctest failures, but which should be changed. This will be rather tedious. On the plus side, I make the point that all these are functions at the top level which will be discovered by beginners for whom sage: primes(100) generator object primes at 0x7f9335465a50 will just confuse. Experts can know about and use the iterator forms of the functions. We could certainly make it do this with little effort: sage: P = primes(100); P Prime numbers of less than 100 We could then have for x in P: ... be the usual iterator. One could also do: sage: P.list() [...] to get back a list. And one could do sage: len(P) to get the number of primes, without computing them. So... my counterproposal is to make primes return a cython class with a few methods. This breaks new code, and will be more new user friendly. John On 26 August 2014 14:00, Vincent Delecroix 20100.delecr...@gmail.com wrote: Hello, Right now, we have the following functions - primes: an iterator over primes - prime_range: a list of primes (in Cython) - prime_powers: a list of prime powers - prime_power_range: another function that return a list of prime powers (in Cython from #16880) Given that - we can implement iterator in Cyhon - most function that end with 's' return lists (elliptic_curves, prime_divisors, quadratic_residues, ...) What do you think about: - move everything in Cython in `fast_arith.pyx` - having `primes` and `prime_powers` return lists - having `prime_iterator`and `prime_power_iterator` return iterators (with deprecation and everything) Best, Vincent -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-nt group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-nt+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send an email to sage...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-nt. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-nt group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-nt+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send an email to sage...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-nt. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- William Stein Professor of Mathematics University of Washington http://wstein.org wst...@uw.edu -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] Re: Student looking to contirbute to Sage
On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 3:34 PM, Nathann Cohen nathann.co...@gmail.com wrote: Yo ! I do not have anything specific in mind. It's not a problem. We all write Sage code because Sage can't do what we need. Here are the steps you should follow: 1) Use it 2) Figure out that your code fails because there is a bug in Sage OR Wonder why the feature you need is not implemented 3) Grumble internally 4) Grumble aloud 5) Complain on Sage-devel 6) Notice that you are the only one who cares 7) Write the code and submit it There is something of Zen in Sage. In order to contribute to Sage, you must not want to contribute to Sage. You must use it, confident that it is the perfect tool and fits all your needs. +1 Then you will notice the ugly truth. Welcome here. Nathann -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- William Stein Professor of Mathematics University of Washington http://wstein.org wst...@uw.edu -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[sage-devel] Re: [sage-release] You don't really think that Sage has failed, do you? (a comment about it)
On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 8:51 PM, kcrisman kcris...@gmail.com wrote: Two remarks: 1. It makes no sense for this post to go to the sage-release mailing list. It should go to sage-flame (or maybe sage-devel). It Here is a sage-devel reason. OK, thread moved to sage-devel. 2. I can cite several reasons for the SAGE has failed and all the reasons can still be corrected: Failed by what measure? You gave a list of things you don't like about Sage. I appreciate your list and the effort you put into it very much of course.Your list suggests I should clarify what I mean by a viable alternative to Magma, etc.. By that I primarily mean the truly deep aspects of Sage relevant to *research mathematicians*, Bingo, please clarify. To me, viable alternative means just that. Frankly, why did you include Matlab if you care about research mathematicians? Dima's answered this well. Why does viable not include useful for all sorts of research problems, not just some? It does. I'm just giving some concrete examples that I'm familiar with. I welcome people in other areas of mathematics with similar functional discrepancies to share the differences between what Sage can do and what Ma* can do. (And yes, we can do a lot better there, obviously, though so can the competitors.) Why does viable not include for all the OTHER things people use Sage for? Indeed, it does! I just mean that it must include research mathematics -- the original poster in this thread was only listing things that were orthogonal to research math. You didn't include in your mission statement a viable research replacement for but a viable alternative, and that is really a lot different. But please don't change the mission statement! +1 -- you're right. Your own personal one can still be the research piece, that is cool. But I think Sage has experienced a lot of the success it has precisely because you didn't see a problem with sharing with a broader vision than just the research community. Sage is unique because it is Free from Freshman year to Fields Medal. That is pretty darn awesome, and has motivated a lot of the people who have poured a lot of hours into it, making it a stable OSS project with lots of users around the world. It may not succeed in precisely the way you want it, but I think there are an awful lot of ways it has. Thanks for the encouragement and kind words. Still, I really, *really* want it to succeed in precisely the way I want it to succeed. This discussion started with people wondering why I'm putting effort into SageMathCloud, and I'm just trying to justify why I'm taking such possibly desperate measures at this point, and why I hope the community will support me on doing so. William -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-release group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-release+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-rele...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-release. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- William Stein Professor of Mathematics University of Washington http://wstein.org wst...@uw.edu -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] Re: [sage-nt] naming convention: primes, prime_range, prime_powers
On Wed, Aug 27, 2014 at 5:01 AM, Travis Scrimshaw tsc...@ucdavis.edu wrote: We already have Primes (upper case P) for that... it just need to be tuned to accept lower/upper bounds. It is nicer from the user point of view (as far as OOP is better than functional programming). A good solution for the namespace would be to have only Primes and PrimePowers. But I really will not use it myself because it has a classcall, UniqueRepresentation, category, etc which takes lifetime to initialize. My loops are rather small but I have plenty of them... so having a nice Primes object would only be painful. I want to keep a simple Cython function that returns list or iterator. That would only be a problem if you're creating such a parent for almost every prime (which I'm pretty sure you're not doing). However if these When you do primes, it creates a Cython class for every prime, namely an instance of Integer. That's not slow. William fractions of a second are really that important, create a base class (in cython) for Primes which does the iteration and other functionality you want without the Sage infrastructure. +1 for using OOP here. Best, Travis -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- William Stein Professor of Mathematics University of Washington http://wstein.org wst...@uw.edu -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] Re: How practical/useful would a native windows subset be?
On Mon, Aug 25, 2014 at 12:44 PM, Jeroen Demeyer jdeme...@cage.ugent.be wrote: On 2014-08-25 11:33, Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd) wrote: I think people been working on it for years and despite a lot of time and effort spent on it, it has never been completed. I think there are a number of reasons it has not been completed, but lack of effort is not one of them. I think Sage-on-Cygwin is fay more realistic than a pure native (even stripped down) version of Sage. I you care about Windows, concentrate your efforts on the Cygwin port. +1 And we actually did spend *months* of very hard work on such a mini sage fully native approach to sage on windows, a few years ago (when it was easier).It was a complete and total waste of time. Once you understand the architecture of Sage, you see that even the most basics parts of Sage are so intertwined that the amount of dependencies (e.g., PARI, etc.,) that you need, make this approach incredibly difficult.Really IPython + Sympy (say) *is* this mini sage, but to get from that to full native windows Sage is at least a million dollar project The download size of such a subset would be smaller than the full version and MUCH smaller that a virtual machine image, as one doesn't need to include a complete operating system too. That's not true. E.g., Puppy Linux is around 50MB, and is a complete useful operating system. In fact, I used to build the Sage VM (targeted at windows) using Puppy Linux years ago. -- William -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- William Stein Professor of Mathematics University of Washington http://wstein.org wst...@uw.edu -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] Re: How practical/useful would a native windows subset be?
On Mon, Aug 25, 2014 at 1:27 PM, Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave
Ltd) drkir...@kirkbymicrowave.co.uk wrote:
On 25 Aug 2014 12:19, Julien Puydt julien.pu...@laposte.net wrote:
I don't understand why people insist on trying to build the windows port
on windows with cygwin ; it's also possible to cross-build windows ports
I was mainly thinking of a C++ version with its own parser. If that used Qt
or wxWidgits it would be multi platform. It does need to use Python at all
initially - if ever.
I guess there is more than one way to approach it, but if one set out with
the aim of nothing much more than a decent scientific calculator, one would
not need to worry about porting things that are hard.
I would not think it too hard to generate a parser which is linked to the
* GMP
* MPFR
* GNU scientific library
which I would expect would compile with Qt or WxWidgets without too many
changes. If it used Qt, the code could be developed on virtually any
platform. Producing executables for many mobile phones, including Android
and Apple iPhone and iPad, Linux etc.
By only linking to code and not calling external command-line tools, it
should be possible to create a uniform interface, which is one of the
criticisms of Sage.
This reminds me of Michael Abshoff. He was supposed to port Sage to
Windows, and was also complaining about how horrible every component
of Sage was, and wanting to remove them. At one point, I wondered if
his eventual port would be something like:
int main(void) {
printf(sage: );
/* etc., -- a simple REPL that does nothing */
}
More seriously, what you're describing definitely isn't Sage at all...
-- William
--
William Stein
Professor of Mathematics
University of Washington
http://wstein.org
wst...@uw.edu
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[sage-devel] Re: [sage-cloud-internal] William Stein says Sage has overall failed
On Thu, Aug 21, 2014 at 12:16 PM, Harald Schilly harald.schi...@gmail.com wrote: Surprisingly, sometimes Reddit contains actual discussions: http://www.reddit.com/r/math/comments/2e3qla/william_stein_says_sage_has_overall_failed/ I just read through it. It might be one reason that there were over 250 new SageMathCloud accounts in the last 24 hours, but that might also be partly due to the new semester/quarter. Thanks to all the knowledgable Sage contributors that answered questions in that thread. The title they gave it -- 'William Stein says Sage has overall failed' -- seems a bit sensational. I think that if people read the blog post they will see that I don't mean that the enormous effort that people like Volker, Jereon, etc., are doing, isn't a fantastic job. I'm measuring progress specifically in terms of the original mission statement. -- William -- H -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-cloud-internal group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-cloud-internal+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-cloud-internal. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- William Stein Professor of Mathematics University of Washington http://wstein.org wst...@uw.edu -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] On scientific computing, Python and Julia
On Thu, Aug 21, 2014 at 9:45 PM, Bill Hart goodwillh...@googlemail.com wrote: Julia can already call Python functions (and I don't mean in some theoretical, technical sense, I mean very practically via an interface designed explicitly for such). So it's not necessary to move Sage from Python to Julia. Other Scientific Python projects haven't done this. There are other reasons why this is not necessary, because of other technical advances that will become available in the coming few years (they are working in labs right now). Instead, the Sage project should do two things in my opinion: 1) Make Julia part of the Sage ecosystem (it's already had a huge investment from the scientific and statistical communities, so this is a no-brainer if you want to embrace that community) 2) Invest in the technologies that are making Julia successful (jit, dependent typing, metaprogramming, type checking and inference, etc.) Whether 2 involves rewriting some functionality in Julia, or simply finding ways of adding such functionality to Python is really neither here nor there. What Sage can't do is just stagnate and ignore progress. If it does, it will be brushed aside as if it wasn't even there, as has happened over and over again in the history of computer algebra! And it's happening to Sage. A few years ago, people at conferences were excitedly demonstrating stuff in Sage. This year, they've moved back to Magma. To fill out this point a little, in my experience (recently, and in the past), such people choose to use Magma instead of Sage because Magma is capable of doing X, where X is something important they need for their work. In some cases, Magma does X slowly, with frequent crashes, etc.. But it does X nonetheless; whereas, programming Sage to do X from scratch would take the right expert about 2 years. This illustrates how Sage is failing to be a viable alternative to Magma. If Magma does X, and Sage doesn't, and people care about X, then Sage is not a viable alternative. Unfortunately, I don't think see Sage switching to Julia, or Sage having better support for (jit, dependent typing, metaprogramming, type checking and inference, etc.) in itself would be enough of a reason for people to have the option to choose Sage over Magma. Such advantages don't address the **real difficulty** in implementing a first version of X that works, since implementing X fundamentally takes reading and understanding papers, working out the right algorithms, etc. -- it's almost entirely a human expert and design problem.At least that's my experience watching/making this happen many times over the last decade.Please keep in mind that much of your (Bill Hart's) implementation work has been looking at implementations of various algorithms and coming up with a new approach that is better in certain ways -- that's certainly very important and useful, but it is a different problem than doing the first general implementation of code for computing with some class of mathematical objects.It's like the difference between building the first ever car and inventing a better wheel. Here are two concrete examples of X's where I've seen this exact situation in the last few months, and for which there is no open source implementation in any language, despite a demand for one over the last 10 years: - (a) quaternion algebras over number fields (topic of Sage Days 61 next week -- https://sites.google.com/site/sagedays61/) - (b) functional fields, mainly Florian Hess's Riemann-Roch spaces algorithm; this supports basic algebraic geometry constructions, which Magma has and Sage doesn't. There are dozens of other similar examples. They are hard to get funded with grants, because in all cases the proposal basically says: replicate something that's already been done... years ago. Also, the type of funding one wants is for a person to work full time on the problem for 1-2 years.A grant proposal that says We plan to do Y, and [lots about Y], but we need X [a little about X], has a chance to get funded (depending on Y). However, there are many X's (like a and b above) where I certainly can't make a compelling case for any Y except make sage a viable alternative. If we actually had real money to support open source math software development, I'm certain there could be useful open source implementations of (a) and (b) above within 2 years. I can think of specific people who would love to carry out these core implementation problems, but instead will be teaching a lot of Calculus instead, and probably not enjoying it. Anyway, a lack of funding is a big obstruction to creating a viable open source free alternative to the Ma's for all. -- William -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send
Re: [sage-devel] Finding SAGE_ROOT?
On Fri, Aug 22, 2014 at 5:46 AM, Paul Graham paulgrah...@outlook.com wrote: In trying to setup development for the Sage Notebook, by following the guide at: http://www.sagemath.org/doc/developer/sagenb/index.html , you first need to locate the root directory of the Sage installation, SAGE_ROOT . Thats the part where im stuck as i dont know where SAGE_ROOT is... Many other places make reference to this place, not just the notebook. So kind of a general dev issue. Im on ubuntu and have a development directory, just containing the sage repository at : ~/sage , and have what is supposed to be a non-development working stable installation of sage that was installed using the UBUNTU PPA instructions at http://www.sagemath.org/download-linux.html, just: sudo apt-add-repository -y ppa:aims/sagemath sudo apt-get update sudo apt-get install sagemath-upstream-binary Im not sure where this installs to, what the default installation directory is on ubuntu, or if sage installs somewhere different? If i do: user1@computer0:~$ ./sage bash: ./sage: Is a directory but but if i do: user1@computer0:~$ sage ┌┐ │ Sage Version 6.3, Release Date: 2014-08-10 │ │ Type notebook() for the browser-based notebook interface.│ │ Type help() for help.│ └┘ /usr/lib/sagemath/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/IPython/utils/path.py:310: UserWarning: IPython dir '/home/user1/.sage/ipython-2.1.0' is not a writable location, using a temp directory. using a temp directory.%ipdir) sage: I dont know what the difference between sage and ./sage is, but maybe above info will help someone pinpoint where my SAGE_ROOT is? I tried alot of searching but no luck so far. Try typing SAGE_ROOT at the sage prompt, e.g., sage: SAGE_ROOT '/usr/local/sage/sage-6.2.rc2' William Stein Professor of Mathematics University of Washington http://wstein.org wst...@uw.edu -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] On scientific computing, Python and Julia
to solve ahead of it (fortunately they don't include parallel programming, a package manager which works, an IPython interface, efficient C, C++ or Python interfaces, an extremely modern syntax or language features, a well-fleshed-out standard library, scientific computing capabilities, high performance, profiling and timing, disassembly features, etc.). I'm sure you can sense from Stefan's posts here that the Julia developers are no idiots. A language like Julia has the potential to be a game changer for computer algebra. Python doesn't. I've been saying that for years, and the reasons haven't changed one bit. You can check my git repository and see that for years I've been working on toy programming languages based on LLVM, with type inference, parameterised type systems, a REPL, Jit, all the things Julia is. I never got around to implementing serious metaprogramming, but there are blog and even sage-devel posts going back years where I've advocated that. Computer scientists have a lot more to offer the mathematics community than it is currently letting them do. I'm glad for the existence of Sage. It's a great community of great people, and a useful tool. It's an outstanding accomplishment. But technology is moving at a far faster pace than the past. Sage is not keeping up. Not even nearly. It will be superceded, and I want to be on record as having said so (again). If so, we'll just include whatever supersedes sage in Sage... -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','sage-devel%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com'); . To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','sage-devel@googlegroups.com');. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- William Stein Professor of Mathematics University of Washington http://wstein.org wst...@uw.edu -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[sage-devel] Sage Mailing lists
Hi, I wanted to point somebody to the sage combinatorics mailing list, so I went to http://sagemath.org, clicked on support -- mailing lists, and got this page: http://sagemath.org/help-groups.html Only three mailing lists are listed. What about all the others? Is the page accidentally broken? William -- William Stein Professor of Mathematics University of Washington http://wstein.org wst...@uw.edu -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] Re: Sage Mailing lists
On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 5:14 AM, Harald Schilly harald.schi...@gmail.com wrote: On Monday, August 18, 2014 2:12:43 PM UTC+2, wstein wrote: What about all the others? The combinat development list is here, top right http://sagemath.org/development-groups.html Is there another one? I didn't realize there was a separate page full of development groups. For example, the title of the page http://sagemath.org/help-groups.html is just: Sage Discussion Groups but it would be clearer if it were Sage Support Groups (see ... Development Groups) or something like that. Maybe we should add links back and forth between the two pages? -- William -- H -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- William Stein Professor of Mathematics University of Washington http://wstein.org wst...@uw.edu -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] Re: Sage Mailing lists
On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 5:37 AM, Harald Schilly harald.schi...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 2:27 PM, William A Stein wst...@uw.edu wrote: but it would be clearer if it were Sage Support Groups (see ... Development Groups) or something like that. Maybe we should add links back and forth between the two pages? well, good idea. there are certainly a few things that need fine tuning and some things are indeed broken or outstanding for quite some time now. but more general, it's right now extremely tedious to do any work on the page since it has been moved. as long as some outstanding issues aren't solved and it doesn't improve, I'll have to come up with an entirely new setup to handle it. Then clearly moving it was a mistake, or at least how I had the move made was stupid. We can move it back... -- William -- h -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- William Stein Professor of Mathematics University of Washington http://wstein.org wst...@uw.edu -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[sage-devel] interact.sagemath.org
Hi, Andrey Novoseltsev kindly pointed out that interact.sagemath.org is deluged with spam, e.g., http://interact.sagemath.org/node/1194 Can somebody volunteer to deal with this ASAP? Either clean up the spam, or move hosting somewhere else (i'll point DNS their way). I'm afraid UW is likely to disconnect sagemath.org from the internet if we don't. William -- William Stein Professor of Mathematics University of Washington http://wstein.org wst...@uw.edu -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] Re: SageMathCloud / closed source / GPL / Spirit of Sage??
http://sagemath.blogspot.com/2014/08/what-is-sagemathcloud-lets-clear-some.html -- William Stein Professor of Mathematics University of Washington http://wstein.org wst...@uw.edu -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] Re: SageMathCloud / closed source / GPL / Spirit of Sage??
I agree with Harald that this discussion belongs on the sage-flame mailing list: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/sage-flame On Sun, Aug 17, 2014 at 4:45 PM, Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd) drkir...@kirkbymicrowave.co.uk wrote: I think the whole closed source nature is likely to restrict the takeup of Sage for several broad groups of people when they realise that to get high performance they are going to need to store sensitive material on a Linux server they don't control. As a 50 year old engineer I have worked at three institutions who I know would not want to put workbooks on a server outside their institution. a) Ministry of Defence - no way. b) Airbus - no way. They are very strict on security. c) Marconi - most unlikely. 1) Many commercial companies are not going to be so keen to put commercially sensitive material on a server they don't control. Interlecural property is valuable company asset. Suddenly buying distributed licenses for Mathematica is more attractive from a security point of view. At least Wolfram Research can't look at what you are doing. 2) Military users are very unlikely to start working on something on a distributed system they can't totally control. 3) Some academics, especially those working on mathematics in areas they know UW specialise in, would perhaps no want to put worksheets on a server they know prying eyes will see. Why let someone else look at what you are working on and possibly beat you to publish a paper? 4) Some individuals are just paranoid and will not use a distributed system they don't control. No doubt HTTPS will be used to encrypt data in transit. Maybe worksheets are stored in an encrypted format on disk. But at some stage the data going to be in plain text. Has anyone working on SageMathCloud ever considered that certain users would not want data stored in a manner they have no control over? Dave. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- William Stein Professor of Mathematics University of Washington http://wstein.org wst...@uw.edu -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] Integer matrices using FLINT
, and it would probably be a good idea to do a similar thing for fmpq_mat_t. In any case, I am new to FLINT so I might not be doing the right things, if any expert is willing to review the ticket it would be great! Best, Marc. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- William Stein Professor of Mathematics University of Washington http://wstein.org wst...@uw.edu -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] Integer matrices using FLINT
On Wednesday, August 13, 2014, Marc Masdeu marc.mas...@gmail.com wrote: On Tuesday, August 12, 2014 11:17:55 PM UTC+1, Fredrik Johansson wrote: On Tuesday, August 12, 2014 8:06:02 PM UTC+2, wstein wrote: Hi -- Another question. You just deleted this [1] below -- does flint really solidly beat it? FLINT uses the same formula for 4x4 determinants, so the difference should be negligible (just the difference in overhead between the mpz and fmpz types). I'm afraid that the overhead cannot be avoided in the current implementation, one would need repeated calls to fmpz_mat_entry() anyways. By the way, the new proposed implementation (purely FLINT) solidly beats Magma (I am trying random matrices with entries of having 10^6 decimal digits). And for those matrices it takes 0.8s to compute one such determinant in my laptop... It takes the same in the Sage current. -- Million digit entries is one case that is prob not so important in the context of quaternion algebras - another case to test would be smaller entries, 30 digits... You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','sage-devel%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com'); . To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','sage-devel@googlegroups.com');. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- William Stein Professor of Mathematics University of Washington http://wstein.org wst...@uw.edu -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] Integer matrices using FLINT
On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 10:52 AM, Martin Albrecht
martinralbre...@googlemail.com wrote:
Hi, I like the proposal to move some types over to FLINT. However, you removed
some options, e.g. calling Pari, LinBox or IML for solving certain problems
(charpoly, kernel, …). I'd prefer these options to be preserved as it is not
clear to me a priori that FLINT will in all cases be fastest. Also, having
choices allows to compare results.
+1. In my experience, having implemented Matrix_integer_dense in the
first place, most systems that we call are full of bugs. It's almost
never the case that any of the claimed functions, e.g., charpoly,
kernel, etc. aren't buggy. It's critical (and disturbing) to run test
code comparing the various systems with various random (and not)
inputs.
Also, there are some systems like linbox that have proof=False
options, which can be faster, but will in fact be very wrong,
especially in corner cases.
I also noticed your patch removes a bunch of verbose output. Why?
Having the potential for logging when running code is very useful:
- t = verbose('hermite mod %s'%D, caller_name='matrix_integer_dense')
cdef Matrix_integer_dense res =
self._new_uninitialized_matrix(self._nrows, self._ncols)
self._hnf_modn(res, D)
- verbose('finished hnf mod', t, caller_name='matrix_integer_dense')
william
Cheers,
Martin
On Tuesday 12 Aug 2014 10:12:04 Marc Masdeu wrote:
Hi,
Recently I noticed that Sage was not using fmpz_mat_t for matrices
(probably when FLINT was incorporated in Sage it didn't yet have this). I
have opened a ticket (http://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/16803 --thanks
pbruin!--) with a patch that reimplements matrix_integer_dense with FLINT,
and it would probably be a good idea to do a similar thing for fmpq_mat_t.
In any case, I am new to FLINT so I might not be doing the right things, if
any expert is willing to review the ticket it would be great!
Best,
Marc.
--
William Stein
Professor of Mathematics
University of Washington
http://wstein.org
wst...@uw.edu
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
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For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] Integer matrices using FLINT
Hi -- Another question. You just deleted this [1] below -- does flint
really solidly beat it?
[1]
-##
-# Some people really really really want to make sure their
-# 4x4 determinant is really really really fast.
-##
-
-cdef int four_dim_det(mpz_t r,mpz_t *x) except -1:
-
- Internal function used in computing determinants of 4x4 matrices.
-
- TESTS::
-
- sage: A = matrix(ZZ,4,[1,0,3,0,4,3,2,1,0,5,0,0,9,1,2,3])
- sage: A.determinant() # indirect doctest
- 25
-
- cdef mpz_t a,b
-
- sig_on()
- mpz_init(a)
- mpz_init(b)
-
- mpz_mul(a,x[3], x[6] ); mpz_submul(a,x[2], x[7] )
- mpz_mul(b,x[9], x[12]); mpz_submul(b,x[8], x[13])
- mpz_mul(r,a,b)
- mpz_mul(a,x[1], x[7] ); mpz_submul(a,x[3], x[5] )
- mpz_mul(b,x[10],x[12]); mpz_submul(b,x[8], x[14])
- mpz_addmul(r,a,b)
- mpz_mul(a,x[2], x[5] ); mpz_submul(a,x[1], x[6] )
- mpz_mul(b,x[11],x[12]); mpz_submul(b,x[8], x[15])
- mpz_addmul(r,a,b)
- mpz_mul(a,x[3], x[4] ); mpz_submul(a,x[0], x[7] )
- mpz_mul(b,x[10],x[13]); mpz_submul(b,x[9], x[14])
- mpz_addmul(r,a,b)
- mpz_mul(a,x[0], x[6] ); mpz_submul(a,x[2], x[4] )
- mpz_mul(b,x[11],x[13]); mpz_submul(b,x[9], x[15])
- mpz_addmul(r,a,b)
- mpz_mul(a,x[1], x[4] ); mpz_submul(a,x[0], x[5] )
- mpz_mul(b,x[11],x[14]); mpz_submul(b,x[10],x[15])
- mpz_addmul(r,a,b)
-
- mpz_clear(a)
- mpz_clear(b)
- sig_off()
- return 0
On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 10:59 AM, William A Stein wst...@uw.edu wrote:
On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 10:52 AM, Martin Albrecht
martinralbre...@googlemail.com wrote:
Hi, I like the proposal to move some types over to FLINT. However, you
removed
some options, e.g. calling Pari, LinBox or IML for solving certain problems
(charpoly, kernel, …). I'd prefer these options to be preserved as it is not
clear to me a priori that FLINT will in all cases be fastest. Also, having
choices allows to compare results.
+1. In my experience, having implemented Matrix_integer_dense in the
first place, most systems that we call are full of bugs. It's almost
never the case that any of the claimed functions, e.g., charpoly,
kernel, etc. aren't buggy. It's critical (and disturbing) to run test
code comparing the various systems with various random (and not)
inputs.
Also, there are some systems like linbox that have proof=False
options, which can be faster, but will in fact be very wrong,
especially in corner cases.
I also noticed your patch removes a bunch of verbose output. Why?
Having the potential for logging when running code is very useful:
- t = verbose('hermite mod %s'%D, caller_name='matrix_integer_dense')
cdef Matrix_integer_dense res =
self._new_uninitialized_matrix(self._nrows, self._ncols)
self._hnf_modn(res, D)
- verbose('finished hnf mod', t, caller_name='matrix_integer_dense')
william
Cheers,
Martin
On Tuesday 12 Aug 2014 10:12:04 Marc Masdeu wrote:
Hi,
Recently I noticed that Sage was not using fmpz_mat_t for matrices
(probably when FLINT was incorporated in Sage it didn't yet have this). I
have opened a ticket (http://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/16803 --thanks
pbruin!--) with a patch that reimplements matrix_integer_dense with FLINT,
and it would probably be a good idea to do a similar thing for fmpq_mat_t.
In any case, I am new to FLINT so I might not be doing the right things, if
any expert is willing to review the ticket it would be great!
Best,
Marc.
--
William Stein
Professor of Mathematics
University of Washington
http://wstein.org
wst...@uw.edu
--
William Stein
Professor of Mathematics
University of Washington
http://wstein.org
wst...@uw.edu
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
sage-devel group.
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[sage-devel] installing optional packages requires running sage -b
Hi,
I installed Sage-6.3.beta6 on SageMathCloud, then installed a big list
of optional packages, including cryptominisat.I was surprised when
the next day a user reported that CryptoMiniSat didn't work, and when
you attempt to use it, you see
Run install_package('cryptominisat') to install it.
I tried the above (as the owner of the sage install), and it did not
fix the problem. What did fix the problem was typing sage -b.
So... it seems like somebody removed doing sage -b after installing
optional packages from the build system (if it was ever there?).
There were several other Cython modules that also weren't built.
Thoughts? Obviously, doing sage -b after installing standard
packages wouldn't make sense, e.g, because sage -b wouldn't work.
-- William
--
William Stein
Professor of Mathematics
University of Washington
http://wstein.org
wst...@uw.edu
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[sage-devel] Re: installing optional packages requires running sage -b
On Mon, Aug 4, 2014 at 6:17 AM, William A Stein wst...@uw.edu wrote:
Hi,
I installed Sage-6.3.beta6 on SageMathCloud, then installed a big list
of optional packages, including cryptominisat.I was surprised when
the next day a user reported that CryptoMiniSat didn't work, and when
you attempt to use it, you see
Run install_package('cryptominisat') to install it.
I tried the above (as the owner of the sage install), and it did not
fix the problem. What did fix the problem was typing sage -b.
So... it seems like somebody removed doing sage -b after installing
optional packages from the build system (if it was ever there?).
There were several other Cython modules that also weren't built.
Just to clarify -- this is exactly what wasn't built (not several
other modules):
Compiling sage/libs/coxeter3/coxeter.pyx because it changed.
Compiling sage/numerical/backends/coin_backend.pyx because it changed.
Compiling sage/sat/solvers/cryptominisat/cryptominisat.pyx because it changed.
Compiling sage/sat/solvers/cryptominisat/solverconf.pyx because it changed.
Thoughts? Obviously, doing sage -b after installing standard
packages wouldn't make sense, e.g, because sage -b wouldn't work.
-- William
--
William Stein
Professor of Mathematics
University of Washington
http://wstein.org
wst...@uw.edu
--
William Stein
Professor of Mathematics
University of Washington
http://wstein.org
wst...@uw.edu
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Re: [sage-devel] installing optional packages requires running sage -b
On Mon, Aug 4, 2014 at 6:30 AM, Jeroen Demeyer jdeme...@cage.ugent.be wrote:
On 2014-08-04 15:17, William A Stein wrote:
Hi,
I installed Sage-6.3.beta6 on SageMathCloud, then installed a big list
of optional packages, including cryptominisat.I was surprised when
the next day a user reported that CryptoMiniSat didn't work, and when
you attempt to use it, you see
Run install_package('cryptominisat') to install it.
I tried the above (as the owner of the sage install), and it did not
fix the problem. What did fix the problem was typing sage -b.
So... it seems like somebody removed doing sage -b after installing
optional packages from the build system (if it was ever there?).
Running sage -b after installing packages has always been needed, nobody
removed anything.
Of all optional packages (that work), it is apparently only needed
after 2 or 3 of them: cryptominisat, coin, coxeter.
I don't consider that a bug, it's consistent with: whenever you change
something to your Sage setup, run sage -b or even better make.
Just consider what happens to a new confused user... or even the most
longterm user of Sage (me):
1. Install cryptominisat -- if you do
install_package('cryptominisat'), I think that's broken, so at least I
know to do:
sage -i cryptominisat
2. Start sage and try to run it. That's me doing this -- I never even
considered having to do sage -b, and I've been using Sage for a
while.
sage: try function using package
boom
Run install_package('cryptominisat') to install it.
3. OK, I'll do what Sage *tells me to do*.
sage: install_package('cryptominisat')
boom!
ValueError: Package is already installed. Try
install_package('cryptominisat',force=True)
4. OK, I'll do what Sage tells me to do:
sage: install_package('cryptominisat', force=True)
ValueError: There is no package name starting with 'cryptominisat'.
5. Wow, I'm starting to think Sage is a confused broken mess? An old
forgetful sage... Oh wait, now I remember there was some bug in
install_package that I reported a few months ago, namely that
install_package, which you're told to use, is broken. So I do:
sage -f cryptominisat
and and go to 1. Nothing has been fixed at all.
This is absolutely not how Sage should behave. The fixes I can think of:
(1) Run sage -b as part of installing any package that requires it
for the install to finish. Your argument not to run sage -b isn't
convincing, because the user is explicitly installing a package
anyways, so they are potentially changing things all over Sage. Or,
(2) Tell people they have to run sage -b clearly in the package
install message. This won't work, because after 20 pages of build
output, nobody is likely to read this. Or,
(3) Instead of telling the user to reinstall the missing package (in
minisat say), actually give a useful error message, instead of a
totally wrong one. E.g., check to see if the minisat library is
installed, but the cython module isn't built. I don't like this
since it is fragile.
So (1) is the best solution I can think of, and solves all cases of
this problem for all packages that have it.
William
I would not be in favour of automatically running sage -b since you might
want to install several packages but run sage -b only once, you might want
to do something else like checking out some git branch (after which you need
to do sage -b anyway) and it wouldn't work for standard packages as you
said. I would also advice against doing sage -b while Sage is running, so
the install_package() Sage command couldn't do it.
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Re: [sage-devel] installing optional packages requires running sage -b
On Mon, Aug 4, 2014 at 8:14 AM, Jeroen Demeyer jdeme...@cage.ugent.be wrote: On 2014-08-04 16:35, Burcin Erocal wrote: There is one more option: (4) include the relevant python/cython code in the package, build and install it with the package. I like (4) the best, but it requires a significant change (compared to 1-3, which are each trivial to implement). That's a possibility, although it complicates doctesting: that extra code wouldn't get doctested. Does anybody actually doctest code in the Sage library that uses optional packages? I wrote the #optional tags so that this would be possible, but never really kept up with it. The install process for the optional package can at least run a test suite, when the SAGE_CHECK variable is set. This could run the corresponding doctests, which might be in the package. William -- William Stein Professor of Mathematics University of Washington http://wstein.org wst...@uw.edu -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] installing optional packages requires running sage -b
On Mon, Aug 4, 2014 at 8:35 AM, Volker Braun vbraun.n...@gmail.com wrote:
(5) have any dependency handling for optional packages.
Would switching to that package manager that you recently rewrote help here?
Really, this thread boils down to: the Sage library depends on some optional
packages. Any kind of hacks around that (like running sage -b by hand in
scripts) will just lead to race conditions.
I'm going to give up on changing sage for this particular issue, and
just put sage -b in my own script for installing optional packages
to SMC.
Probably somebody should disable the install_package command in Sage,
and remove explicit reference to it in sage source code, if there is
no plan to fix it. There are many places in the sage source code that
tell people to use that command:
~/tmp$ sage -grep install_package
sage/sat/solvers/cryptominisat/__init__.py:raise
ImportError(Failed to import
'sage.sat.solvers.cryptominisat.CryptoMiniSat'. Run
\install_package('cryptominisat')\ to install it.)
sage/misc/package.py:Use the ``install_package`` command to install a new
sage/misc/package.py:install_package(pkg, force=force)
sage/misc/package.py:def install_package(package=None, force=False):
sage/misc/package.py:sage: install_package()
sage/misc/package.py:sage: install_package('chomp') # not tested
sage/misc/package.py:print(install_package may not work
correctly under Microsoft Windows)
sage/misc/package.py:print(use the force option to install_package().)
sage/misc/package.py:raise ValueError(Package is
already installed. Try
install_package('{}',force=True).format(package))
sage/misc/package.py:return any(p.startswith(package) for p in
install_package())
sage/misc/package.py:Use ``install_package(package_name)`` to install or
sage/misc/package.py:.. seealso:: :func:`install_package`, :func:`upgrade`
sage/misc/package.py:Use ``install_package(package_name)`` to install or
sage/misc/package.py:.. seealso:: :func:`install_package`, :func:`upgrade`
sage/misc/package.py:Use ``install_package(package_name)`` to install or
sage/misc/package.py:.. seealso:: :func:`install_package`, :func:`upgrade`
sage/misc/package.py:.. seealso:: :func:`install_package`,
:func:`optional_packages`
sage/misc/package.py:mesg = 'To install the package %s type
install_package(%s)\n'%(package_name, package_name)
sage/misc/all.py:from package import install_package,
is_package_installed, standard_packages, optional_packages,
experimental_packages, upgrade
sage/interfaces/r.py:def install_packages(self, package_name):
sage/interfaces/r.py:sage: r.install_packages('aaMI')
# not tested
sage/rings/polynomial/multi_polynomial_ideal.py:raise
ImportError(GINV is missing, to install use
install_package('ginv').)
sage/rings/polynomial/multi_polynomial_sequence.py:
raise ValueError('algorithm=exhaustive_search requires the optional
library FES. Run install_package(\'fes\') to install it
.')
sage/groups/perm_gps/permgroup_named.py:
``install_package(`database_gap')``.
sage/geometry/triangulation/point_configuration.py:sage:
install_package('TOPCOM') # not tested
sage/geometry/polyhedron/palp_database.py:install it with the
command ``install_package('polytopes_db_4d')``.
sage/graphs/graph_plot_js.py:``install_package('d3js')`` or by
running ``sage -i d3js`` from the command
sage/graphs/graph_plot_js.py:``install_package('d3js')`` or by
running ``sage -i d3js`` from the
sage/server/trac/trac.py:print Try something like
install_package('trac-0.11.5'),
~/tmp$ sage -grep install_package|wc -l
29
-- William
On Monday, August 4, 2014 2:58:02 PM UTC+1, wstein wrote:
(1) Run sage -b as part of installing any package that requires it
for the install to finish. Your argument not to run sage -b isn't
convincing, because the user is explicitly installing a package
anyways, so they are potentially changing things all over Sage. Or,
(2) Tell people they have to run sage -b clearly in the package
install message. This won't work, because after 20 pages of build
output, nobody is likely to read this. Or,
(3) Instead of telling the user to reinstall the missing package (in
minisat say), actually give a useful error message, instead of a
totally wrong one. E.g., check to see if the minisat library is
installed, but the cython module isn't built. I don't like this
since it is fragile.
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University
[sage-devel] test message
Hi, If this works, then posting from @uw.edu addresses works. If not, then we should migrate to another mailing list provider. William -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups sage-devel group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [sage-devel] Re: Changelogs in SPKG.txt
On May 25, 2010, at 12:30 PM, Jason Grout jason-s...@creativetrax.com wrote: On 5/25/10 2:01 PM, Robert Bradshaw wrote: On May 25, 2010, at 11:50 AM, William Stein wrote: Having info about patches is a good idea. I'm definitely not convinced SPKG.txt is the right place for it. I would install propose something *like* for every patch foo, having a file foo.wtf (or something) in patches/ that explains the patch. E.g., $ cd patches $ ls foo foo.patch foo.wtf The file foo.wtf would document why foo is done. Doing things like this will greatly increase the chances that docs are updated when they should be. This is similar to having docstrings in functions, instead of some other distant place. I actually think that this will make it less likely to get looked at and appropriately cleaned up when versions are bumped. When I'd go to SPKG.txt to update the version information, I would see Version x.y.z, with these patches: ... and if there are notes about stuff being fixed upstream, I'd take care of it then, rather than having to look at each patch/about file individually. +1 to Robert's comments. Already, I don't ever make or use foo.patch files anymore because they are completely redundant and one more easily-forgotten step to make (they should be totally automated if they are required). Interesting If we added foo.why files (I think 'why' is a nicer extension :), that would just add a layer of complexity onto the updating process. So +1 to having all of the necessary instructions/metadata for updating an spkg right in the SPKG.txt file. Jason -- To post to this group, send an email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URL: http://www.sagemath.org -- To post to this group, send an email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URL: http://www.sagemath.org
Re: [sage-devel] Re: Changelogs in SPKG.txt
On May 25, 2010, at 12:30 PM, Jason Grout jason-s...@creativetrax.com wrote: On 5/25/10 2:01 PM, Robert Bradshaw wrote: On May 25, 2010, at 11:50 AM, William Stein wrote: Having info about patches is a good idea. I'm definitely not convinced SPKG.txt is the right place for it. I would install propose something *like* for every patch foo, having a file foo.wtf (or something) in patches/ that explains the patch. E.g., $ cd patches $ ls foo foo.patch foo.wtf The file foo.wtf would document why foo is done. Doing things like this will greatly increase the chances that docs are updated when they should be. This is similar to having docstrings in functions, instead of some other distant place. I actually think that this will make it less likely to get looked at and appropriately cleaned up when versions are bumped. When I'd go to SPKG.txt to update the version information, I would see Version x.y.z, with these patches: ... and if there are notes about stuff being fixed upstream, I'd take care of it then, rather than having to look at each patch/about file individually. +1 to Robert's comments. Already, I don't ever make or use foo.patch files anymore because they are completely redundant Interesting. If I remember correctly, you and I had a long discussion about those patch files, in which I was totally against them, and you argued for them. I think they are there now mostly because of you. I'm still against them and consider them a waste of time, just like the log in SPKG.txt. I am glad we now agree. and one more easily-forgotten step to make (they should be totally automated if they are required). If we added foo.why files (I think 'why' is a nicer extension :), that would just add a layer of complexity onto the updating process. So +1 to having all of the necessary instructions/metadata for updating an spkg right in the SPKG.txt file. There is a layer of complexity with either approach. One puts the instructions next to the file being patched, and one puts them in a separate file. It's just like putting docs in docstrings versus the Sage Constructions Guide. Jason -- To post to this group, send an email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URL: http://www.sagemath.org -- To post to this group, send an email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URL: http://www.sagemath.org
Re: [sage-devel] Re: icc
On May 23, 2010, at 1:12 PM, leif wrote: On 23 Mai, 21:40, Dr. David Kirkby david.kir...@onetel.net wrote: 'lcalc' had a particularly annoying attempt to cover up warnings from the assembler, as it actually caused the build to break on Solaris, as the option to cover up the warnings was passed directly to the Sun assembler, but it did not accept the option. They seem to think gcc (the compiler driver) will be smart enough to know all options passed to any component of the tool chain, even if passed verbatim ;-) IMHO, the quality of the coding in Sage leaves a lot to be desired in places. One of my current favorites is a snippet from sage-build: cd $SAGE_ROOT/devel/sage/sage echo *** TOUCHING ALL CYTHON (.pyx) FILES *** touch */*.pyx */*/*.pyx */*/*/*.pyx */*/*/*/*.pyx */*/*/*/*/*.pyx */ */*/*/*/*.pyx */*/*/*/*/*/*.pyx 2 /dev/null Reminds me of M$-DOS, where the shell did not expand wildcards. (If you have fun, count the asterisks...) -Leif Instead of keeping this as a favorite, implement a better version, and post a patch. -- William -- To post to this group, send an email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URL: http://www.sagemath.org -- To post to this group, send an email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URL: http://www.sagemath.org
Re: [sage-devel] Re: icc
On May 23, 2010, at 1:12 PM, leif wrote: On 23 Mai, 21:40, Dr. David Kirkby david.kir...@onetel.net wrote: 'lcalc' had a particularly annoying attempt to cover up warnings from the assembler, as it actually caused the build to break on Solaris, as the option to cover up the warnings was passed directly to the Sun assembler, but it did not accept the option. They seem to think gcc (the compiler driver) will be smart enough to know all options passed to any component of the tool chain, even if passed verbatim ;-) IMHO, the quality of the coding in Sage leaves a lot to be desired in places. One of my current favorites is a snippet from sage-build: cd $SAGE_ROOT/devel/sage/sage echo *** TOUCHING ALL CYTHON (.pyx) FILES *** touch */*.pyx */*/*.pyx */*/*/*.pyx */*/*/*/*.pyx */*/*/*/*/*.pyx */ */*/*/*/*.pyx */*/*/*/*/*/*.pyx 2 /dev/null Reminds me of M$-DOS, where the shell did not expand wildcards. (If you have fun, count the asterisks...) -Leif -- To post to this group, send an email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URL: http://www.sagemath.org -- To post to this group, send an email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URL: http://www.sagemath.org
Re: [sage-devel] Do 'sympow' and 'palp' build 64-bit on OS X ?
On May 23, 2010, at 6:10 PM, Dr. David Kirkby wrote: Trying to build Sage on OpenSolaris in 64-bit mode I discovered two packages which look to me that they don't try to build 64-bit. They don't use the SAGE64 variable at all and nothing else there suggests that the -m64 flag ever gets added. This makes me think that they will not build properly as 64-bit on OS X either, unless 64-bit is the default for the particular release of OS X. 64-bit is the default for OS X 10.6. We only bother building 64-bit Sage on OS X 10.6. William Comments? Dave -- To post to this group, send an email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URL: http://www.sagemath.org -- To post to this group, send an email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URL: http://www.sagemath.org
Re: [sage-devel] Re: How can I get and modify Notebook source?
On May 11, 2010, at 10:56 AM, kcrisman kcris...@gmail.com wrote: On May 11, 11:22 am, Jason Grout jason-s...@creativetrax.com wrote: On 05/11/2010 01:45 AM, Tim Joseph Dumol wrote: On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 5:47 AM, Jason Grout jason-s...@creativetrax.com mailto:jason-s...@creativetrax.com wrote: On 05/10/2010 01:27 PM, Tim Joseph Dumol wrote: Hi, The latest sagenb package is included in Sage 4.4.1 (sagenb-0.8.p0.spkg). Then, extract and install it, then develop as usual. $ tar -xvf sagenb-0.8.p0.splg $ cd sagenb-0.8.p0/src/sagenb/ $ sage -python setup.py install sage -python setup.py develop `setup.py develop` allows you to develop on the package without needing to reinstall the package or rebuild Sage. What is the possibility of just copying the repository to the site-packages/sagenb directory? Then someone could just go into that directory ($SAGE_ROOT/local/lib/python2.6/site-packages/...) and start making changes, check the log, etc. It's rather non-standard to do work directly in site-packages/*. I'd be much more comfortable with copying the repository to something like $SAGE_ROOT/devel/sagenb/ or something like that, and running `$sage -python setup.py install sage -python setup.py develop` on package install. It would be trivial to create an hg_sagenb class wrapper once that's done. I'd love to hear other people's opinion on this. +1 to making a directory in devel that contains the notebook code so that the development process is much more standardized (e.g., go to a directory in devel and work with normal mercurial commands). Yes, this is exactly the kind of thing I had in mind. Things that are really just for Sage should be part of the standard Sage devel process. (Now we just need an hg_pynac to make it complete...) Thanks for considering it! - kcrisman The notebook is *not* just for sage. There is a pynac hg repo in the pynac spkg. Anyway, best is a more supported way to automate the 3 lines Tim posted above, e.g., sage -i --devel pkg_name would install and setup the given package in a way for doing development. -- To post to this group, send an email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URL: http://www.sagemath.org -- To post to this group, send an email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URL: http://www.sagemath.org
Re: [sage-devel] converting complex to float
On May 4, 2010, at 8:21 AM, Jason Grout jason-s...@creativetrax.com wrote: Right now, we have the following behavior: sage: float(CC(1.0)) 1.0 sage: float(CDF(1.0)) --- TypeError Traceback (most recent call last) /home/jason/ipython console in module() /home/jason/sage/local/lib/python2.6/site-packages/sage/rings/complex_double.so in sage.rings.complex_double.ComplexDoubleElement.__float__ (sage/rings/complex_double.c:6532)() TypeError: can't convert complex to float; use abs(z) sage: float(complex(1.0)) --- TypeError Traceback (most recent call last) /home/jason/ipython console in module() TypeError: can't convert complex to float Does anyone object to me changing float(CDF(1.0)) to behave like float(CC(1.0)) (i.e., a float conversion will succeed if the imaginary part is 0). Note that this will make CDF and the python complex type have different behaviors. I think I wrote the original code for this, and I am ok with the change you suggest, since our policy on explicit coercions is to make them work when they make (some) mathematical sense. Also note that this will partially match the numpy complex type (which apparently just returns the real part of the number on conversion to float): sage: float(numpy.complex128(1.0)) 1.0 sage: float(numpy.complex128(1.0+2j)) 1.0 That is truly evil. William Thanks, Jason -- To post to this group, send an email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URL: http://www.sagemath.org -- To post to this group, send an email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URL: http://www.sagemath.org
Re: [sage-devel] Re: converting complex to float
On May 4, 2010, at 9:06 AM, Jason Grout jason-s...@creativetrax.com wrote: On 05/04/2010 10:30 AM, William A. Stein wrote: I think I wrote the original code for this, and I am ok with the change you suggest, since our policy on explicit coercions is to make them work when they make (some) mathematical sense. A related question is that conversion from CC or CDF to long, int, ZZ, or QQ also fails, though doing something like ZZ(RR(CC(1))) works. Should conversion to an integer or rational try to work if the imaginary part is zero? Yes. And note that the implementation of QQ(RR(... is pretty nontrivial. Thanks, Jason -- To post to this group, send an email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URL: http://www.sagemath.org -- To post to this group, send an email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URL: http://www.sagemath.org
[sage-devel] Re: back ticks versus $ signs
On Sep 3, 2009, at 12:28 PM, Ondrej Certik wrote: On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 12:09 PM, William Steinwst...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I've been spending the last few days going between writing a lot of code with very math heavy Sphinx docstrings containing many backticks, and writing LaTeX documents (papers/notes/etc.) using $ signs for math mode. It is driving me totally crazy! I constantly accidentally put $'s in my Spinx docstrings and now I'm starting to put back ticks ` in my LaTeX documents. Is anybody else annoyed by this? I am very tempted to change Sage so that $ signs can be used as a synonym for backquotes in docstrings. I would leave backticks, but make it so $'s just get converted to backticks, plus maybe some marker to leave $'s as $'s (e.g., whatever one would currently do to enter a backtick in Sphinx). I am also writing lots of formulas using rest, e.g.: http://certik.github.com/mhd-hermes/sphinx-doc/physics.html and it bugs me that I have to type :math:`\eta` instead of just $\eta$. So how about submitting a patch to sphinx fixing it? Ondrej That's a good idea. It would certainly be better than having to change Sage -- it would keep things pure, but allow $'s, and even benefit you. Great idea. It's hard to argue with that. -- William --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send an email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to sage-devel-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: symbolic variable treated as sqrt(-1) when it shouldn't be
On Sep 3, 2009, at 12:49 PM, kcrisman wrote:
On Sep 3, 2:28 pm, William Stein wst...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Sage-Devel,
What do you think of this:
sage: var('x, i')
sage: solve(x^2 + i == 0, x)
[x == -sqrt(-I), x == sqrt(-I)]
Basically, I make a purely symbolic variable which I happen to call
i, and it gets treated somewhere (presumably in Maxima) as if it
were sqrt(-1).
Here is another instance of this:
sage: var('i')
i
sage: a = i^2
sage: a
i^2
sage: a.simplify_full()
-1
So Ginac treats things fine, but our use of Maxima messes it up.
This came up for me just now when doing some symbolic calculation
with
a quaternion algebra where the generators are called i,j,k, and
this
i has nothing to do with sqrt(-1).
Thoughts?
William
I see your point. I guess to me it's another instance of the should
x be predefined question - on the whole, it's better to make this
available.
I think my email must have not been clear. I think it's an instance
of a *HUGE BUG* in Sage. No more, no less.It's a bug, because
irregardless of anything being predefined, it makes no sense that
simplifying via *maxima* would just happen to decide that the formal
variable i is sqrt(-1), even though it isn't with Ginac.
William
It is also annoying when doing [f(i) for i in indexset],
but unless we can come up with another way to represent this, it will
be hard to do things with complexes very easily. Luckily for me, I
don't usually need that, but others may very often. Does this happen
with 'e' as well, or is that defined as a constant rather than a
variable? It seems like both are symbolic.expression.Expression.
What do the other major systems do with this - do they insist on sqrt
(-1) or CC(i) or something like that? If everyone expects this coming
in, it is an argument for it - not decisive, but a significant
argument.
- kcrisman
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[sage-devel] Re: Organizing Sage worksheets: tags or categories?
On Sep 3, 2009, at 2:17 PM, Brian Granger wrote: Hi, Is there any way of organizing worksheets on a Sage notebook server? If you have many worksheets, it can be difficult to find them and it would be nice to be able to organize them using tags, categories or folders. One example of this would be if wanted to write a chapter based book using the notebooks. Then all the chapters could be a worksheet and all the worksheets could go into a single folder/tag. No, there is no way to organize worksheets. I'll implement something next month. What should my highest priority be? In practice, what I do is put something helpful in the title (a sort of tag), then use the text search in the upper right to locate all worksheets with that in them. William --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send an email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to sage-devel-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: Embedded SVG editor in the notebook?
On Sep 3, 2009, at 10:17 PM, Pat LeSmithe wrote: I noticed SVG-edit, a Scalable Vector Graphics (SVG) editor that works entirely in capable browsers [1]: http://code.google.com/p/svg-edit/ Stable and beta demos: http://svg-edit.googlecode.com/svn/tags/stable/editor/svg-editor.html http://svg-edit.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/editor/svg-editor.html Compared to Inkscape, it's quite light, but this may be an advantage. It does appear to be actively developed. Are there other or better examples? That is absolutely amazing!! Wow. Not impossible uses in Sage: * Draw diagrams. * Annotate images. * Manipulate graphs. * Put cells anywhere. * Add audio and video. Yes indeed. This would be very nice, since one could say draw a plot, then edit it to fine tune things and add extra annotation. Also, it would just be very nice having an easy scratchpad anywhere in an worksheet. Very cool. William Can jsMath render expressions as SVG groups? I think this depends partly on font support. By the way, how about syntax highlighting for equations? jsMath can easily do color: http://www.math.union.edu/~dpvc/jsMath/examples/extensions.html Would this be useful for teaching? I'm not sure about how to add color attributes to symbolic variables. [1] IE supports Vector Markup Language (VML) instead of SVG. The svgweb project aims to set up Flash as a non-native SVG renderer: http://code.google.com/p/svgweb/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send an email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to sage-devel-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://www.sagemath.org -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
