RE: CLOSING ARGUEEMENT ON - SimCoupe protected disks Copyrig ht
Through judicious use of monkeys and typewriters, Justin Skists [EMAIL PROTECTED] came up with... Heh! :) (Calmed down from being told by PC World that I was denied credit to buy a PC - All I want to do is play with that digital camera and run SimCoupe!!) Why did you go to PC World to buy a PC? ;| a) PC World sells PCs (spookily enough) b) i didn't really care what spec PC I got. c) PC World is near to where I live (walking distance - just about) d) For 1300quid, I'd get everything I wanted in one box (even if it wasn't the best of quality - of which I didn't care about anyway) including scanner, printer and digital camera... Answered question? Jut
Re: CLOSING ARGUEEMENT ON - SimCoupe protected disks Copyrig ht
Through judicious use of monkeys and typewriters, Justin Skists [EMAIL PROTECTED] came up with... (Calmed down from being told by PC World that I was denied credit to buy a PC - All I want to do is play with that digital camera and run SimCoupe!!) Why did you go to PC World to buy a PC? ;| -- James R Curry
RE: Sam Juggler (Re: SimCoupe protected disks)
Andrew Collier wrote: MNEMOdemo1 part 2 (my bit) crashes. I never did manage to work out exactly why, but I rather suspect it has to do with interrupt timings. I've corrected the interrupt timings (as discovered Ian or yourself) so the interrupt bits aren't visible during the last 3us of the interrupt, but they stay active so interrupts can still occur. I've not tried that demo yet so I'm not sure if that's related to the problem, but it can't do any harm! Also, according to the website, SamDice crashes on startup, Fixed - turned out to be the missing 'read address' implementation in the floppy controller. 'read track' was also needed for the 'diagnostic read' to work without crashing. I extended this to add full support for protected disks, so Prince of Persia, Lemmings (tho I've broken the mouse support it seems), etc. now work when they're converted to the new type of disk image needed to describe them accurately. Existing DSK/SAD images can be formated, but only to the normal 10x512 sector format. The new images can be formatted to custom formats within the emulator, and can be viewed/edited with SamDice. I've written a BASIC program and some ASM to use on the real SAM to scan protected disks a side at a time and raw write it to another disk. I then use SBK to transfer them to the PC and (for the moment, until there's a utility to do it) use a binary editor to splice sections of them together. Of course it'll be up to people to generate their own SDF image files for any software they have as I won't distribute them, even if people claim to own the original! Si
RE: CLOSING ARGUEEMENT ON - SimCoupe protected disks Copyright
David L wrote: Not so tricky with a good hard drive removable rack! Indeed, I take the 2 hard disk caddies out of my machine in work every night when I go home, so I can plug them in there if I need to use them. Ironically, the last hard disk I had that died was the one fixed in the machine! Si
Re: CLOSING ARGUEEMENT ON - SimCoupe protected disks Copyright
Not so tricky with a good hard drive removable rack! -Original Message- From: Ian Collier [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: 26 April 1999 14:41 Subject: Re: CLOSING ARGUEEMENT ON - SimCoupe protected disks Copyright Once you can copy POP or LEMS to HD , then their will be loads of oppotunity to freely pass on copies as they see fit Yeah, cos, like, I'm always giving hard disks to people...
Re: New Argument about COPYING (WAS CLOSING ARGUEEMENT ON - SimCoupe protected disks Copyright )
On Tue, Apr 20, 1999 at 01:37:30PM +, Andrew Gallagher wrote: Most works come with a standard notice along the lines of This may not be lent, hired, copied or exhibited in public without the express written consent of the publisher etc.etc. These rules are, of course, flouted, but small-scale non-profit instances would usually be overlooked. I can't see how this may not be lent can possibly have any basis in law, though. imc
Re: CLOSING ARGUEEMENT ON - SimCoupe protected disks Copyright
On Tue, Apr 20, 1999 at 08:31:15PM +0100, The President wrote: Once you can copy POP or LEMS to HD , then their will be loads of oppotunity to freely pass on copies as they see fit Yeah, cos, like, I'm always giving hard disks to people... imc. Man.
Re: New Argument about COPYING (WAS CLOSING ARGUEEMENT ON - SimCoupe protected disks Copyright )
On Tue, Apr 20, 1999 at 06:20:37PM +0100, Paul Walker wrote: Why DO you keep PUSHing this thREAD, when the law DEFines that you are wrong and I am right? Why do I get the feeling you're using a programmers editor? That's funny. I hadn't noticed that all the capitalised bits were BASIC keywords (except BACKUP, which I think is a MasterDOS keyword). I think basically he was extracting the michael from Chris's differently capitalised message. imc
RE: New Argument about COPYING (WAS CLOSING ARGUEEMENT ON -SimCoupe protected disks Copyright )
Its just a Means to a End , If you need to BACKUP your purchase, but its protected to stop PIRACY , MODIFYING Correctly working code (the Protection ) is illegal (SECTION 50C as previously stated) :) Fortunately, backing up disks to a different media isn't modifying any code, in fact it's not even changing much about the format of the disk, it just lets us legal owners make the most of our purchase :-) Si
Re: CLOSING ARGUEEMENT ON - SimCoupe protected disks C
Simple! You point them in the direction of Persona - who as Chris has publicised earlier - has Chris's exclusive permission to sell Lemmings Prince Of Persia. David. -Original Message- From: Psycho Billy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: 21 April 1999 12:57 Subject: Re: CLOSING ARGUEEMENT ON - SimCoupe protected disks C Thanks for using NetForward! http://www.netforward.com v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v . @ 1 point i was about to DUMP all my sam stuff onto NVG's ftp for all to have , this would have included the ablility to recreate a POP/LEMS disk with out any probs at all (I Still have MAsters) , and E-Copy 3. But was asked not to so what was still being sold on Sam could continue and bring in what little money was still coming in. Chris Do it. Everybody who has ever wanted to buy lemmings or pop has got it now surely - I wouldn't even know where to point someone t buy a copy. The SAM world can only survive if we start to pool our resources and help to advance SIM Coupe ie. getting it running in WIn32 properly. (Still no nearer tofinding that Win32 version - anybody going to let me in on th esecret?) Peace, Love, Kisses... JohnnaPig Teare JPOL: http://johnnapig.webjump.com It won't get better but it might never get worse...
Re: New Argument about COPYING (WAS CLOSING ARGUEEMENT ON -SimCoupe protected disks Copyright )
-Original Message- From: The President [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: 20 April 1999 7:09 Subject: Re: New Argument about COPYING (WAS CLOSING ARGUEEMENT ON -SimCoupe protected disks Copyright ) Okay done some digging and ask LOADS of question to allsort's of peeps in the industry and have come up with the following FACT about The UK Copyright (Computer Programs) Regulations 1992 , and have extacted the following Back up Copies (see section 50A) Lawful users can make back up copies even if this is not expressly permitted in the terms of the agreement. But the copyright owner(s) may remove this right by the terms of the contract if they provide alternative facilities in case of a disaster. As far as MOST publishers of today are concerned , they will replace software if media is found defective. But if damage though neglect (My point all along :) ) they will not replace. So if a Publisher offers a replacement free (Except for PP) of Degraded Media. You are NOT entitled to BACKUP their software. So if your copy of program X gets destroyed by your kid or for any other reason that is YOUR fault then they will not replace it. But as the wording is in case of a disaster, and the above is a disaster I am allowed to make a BACKUP of all software if the publisher will not replace the copy in any circumstances. This includes the publisher going bankrupt. snip My point all along is that MOST peeps only make a BACKUP of software for NON LEGAL reasons , snip Chris No one has said that making a BACKUP for illegal purposes is OK. Richard.
Re: CLOSING ARGUEEMENT ON - SimCoupe protected disks Copyright
I don't think it's illegal to produce the bit of circuitry but it is to fit it to a playstation. Richard. -Original Message- From: Martin Fitzpatrick [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: 19 April 1999 9:54 Subject: Re: CLOSING ARGUEEMENT ON - SimCoupe protected disks Copyright maybe its like some walkie-talkies(1), i.e., its not illegal to own them, sell them, make them or whatever just use them is it actually illegal to do it? i mean what law are you breaking by simply producing a bit of circuitry? using it would be illegal though, cos then the purpose for which the thing was build is pretty explicit... maybe martin fitzpatrick (1) completely unfounded in any real-life knowledge, and instead just some vague memory from my childhood - when i stood opposite a sweetie stall in leeds market (ahh, them were the days)... my dad told me this so again, its quite possibly bull. anyway, it was just another excuse for a footnote... they're quite good really. -- Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ#: 11077801 AOL/CServeIM: Flupert
Re: New Argument about COPYING (WAS CLOSING ARGUEEMENT ON -SimCoupe protected disks Copyright )
So if your copy of program X gets destroyed by your kid or for any other reason that is YOUR fault then they will not replace it. But as the wording is in case of a disaster, and the above is a disaster I am allowed to make a BACKUP of all software if the publisher will not replace the copy in any circumstances. This includes the publisher going bankrupt. But this is neglect , lets take a TV as an example , if the TV breaks down in its first year you are entitled to a replacement . But for you throw you TV @ the wall they will not replace. The Law states that if its defective they will replace , if however its destroyed by no fault of the media they will not . No one has said that making a BACKUP for illegal purposes is OK. Noone does do they , I know of people who have a COPY of white lable £4.99 games , and they would proberly get COPYS of anything regardless of how much it cost. They have no technical knowledge and would be able to do this is someone else did not disable the protection. As for my stuff , currently draft letter to OWNERS of the COPYRIGHT to see if this is acceptable , unless there is still some objections Chris Ps. Please EMAIL the list with OBJECTIONS
Re: CLOSING ARGUEEMENT ON - SimCoupe protected disks Copyright
- Original Message - From: Richard Jowett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sent: 22 April 1999 02:03 Subject: Re: CLOSING ARGUEEMENT ON - SimCoupe protected disks Copyright I don't think it's illegal to produce the bit of circuitry but it is to fit it to a playstation. Richard. It's only illegal , if it purpose is found to help illegal activitys i.e a gun is not illegal in USA but it is illegal to shot unless in self defence Chirs
Re: CLOSING ARGUEEMENT ON - SimCoupe protected disks Copyright
I meant If the station wasn't protected then US versions could be used legally in this country this may create competition as importers could import larger quantities as the demand would be greater bringing the cost down. This is the biggest reason for a 'CHIP' , wothout the region locout there would be not need to have 'CHIP' , but then we would need to have a MULTI software release , this would case a major headache and money , but then I would like to play games as soon as Japan can :), this would stop most of the PIRACY as well Chris
Re: CLOSING ARGUEEMENT ON - SimCoupe protected disks Copyright
The thing is, if these chips are illegal, then most of the PSX owning populace of the North West of England are criminals. Dunno about other places. Dave (1) Well, not literally. Just a handy excuse for a footnote. I'm sure, not only NW-England.
Re: CLOSING ARGUEEMENT ON - SimCoupe protected disks Copyright
Richard Jowett wrote: According to a TV program It is illegal to chip and maybe even to own a chipped PSX (not sure if they said own). Yet loads of shops/people are offering this service, but nothing is really being done about them. If a company as big as Sony cannot stop this then Smaller companies don't stand much chance. maybe its like some walkie-talkies(1), i.e., its not illegal to own them, sell them, make them or whatever just use them is it actually illegal to do it? i mean what law are you breaking by simply producing a bit of circuitry? using it would be illegal though, cos then the purpose for which the thing was build is pretty explicit... maybe Maybe it is like making illegal paper dollars. At least in out country it is not illegal to make them, it is illegal to use them :-))) martin fitzpatrick Aley [eili] Keprt - student, programmer (multimedia soft. etc.) phone: +420-68-538 70 35 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** http://get.to/aley
Re: CLOSING ARGUEEMENT ON - SimCoupe protected disks Copyright
I meant If the station wasn't protected then US versions could be used legally in this country this may create competition as importers could import larger quantities as the demand would be greater bringing the cost down. Why do you think it's protected? They want to screw people for everything they can, so the prices are kept high. Paul -- The INTJ's Prayer: Lord keep me open to others' ideas, WRONG though they may be. -- quoted by Kevin Scaldeferri in sci.physics, 10th July 1998.
Re: New Argument about COPYING (WAS CLOSING ARGUEEMENT ON -SimCoupe protected disks Copyright )
Noone does do they , I know of people who have a COPY of white lable £4.99 games , and they would proberly get COPYS of anything regardless of how much it cost. They have no technical knowledge and would be able to do this is someone else did not disable the protection. And this has exactly what to do with making a backup? Paul -- There are two major products that come out of Berkeley: LSD and UNIX. We don't believe this to be a coincidence. -- Jeremy S. Anderson
Re: New Argument about COPYING (WAS CLOSING ARGUEEMENT ON -SimCoupe protected disks Copyright )
Noone does do they , I know of people who have a COPY of white lable £4.99 games , and they would proberly get COPYS of anything regardless of how much it cost. They have no technical knowledge and would be able to do this is someone else did not disable the protection. And this has exactly what to do with making a backup? If you want the right (by law) to backup software , then you first need to deprotect it ( if any exsits) , if you can't do this then you rely on others to do this for you. And the only way this can be done is though PIRACY . Its just a Means to a End , If you need to BACKUP your purchase, but its protected to stop PIRACY , MODIFYING Correctly working code (the Protection ) is illegal (SECTION 50C as previously stated) :) Chris
Re: New Argument about COPYING (WAS CLOSING ARGUEEMENT ON -SimCoupe protected disks Copyright )
Peopled ARE allowed to make genuine backups. Deal with it. And those people do themselves a favour if they kept their mouths shut about it. Why, if Chris is (apparently) wrong? Surely it's better to correct him? :) Paul -- Motto: We'll sleep when we're dead -- The yearling.com cyberelves
Re: SimCoupe protected disks
I'm affraid about copyright laws. I'm no legal expert, but isn't it just considered a backup copy as long as you still own the original version? your are not aloud to create a copy of anything , without the copyright owners permission. That's wrong, or at least, wrong in England (I think). fx: semi-informed waffle alert! Most of the things you'll find in the average software license agreement are unenforcable in the UK. It's protection by intimidation, the software company says you may not do this, that or the other and hopes that most people believe them, and don't it. But they also say this does not affect your statutory rights, because they are not allowed to reduce the consumer's rights below a certain minimum threshold as defined by UK law. I'm almost certain that threshold includes making (but, of course, not distributing) backup copies. I'm absolutely certain it includes reverse-engineering and modifying the software, which is another thing these end-user license agreements tend to disallow. They might therefore try to argue that by doing any of this you are in breach of your agreement, but since you haven't signed anything there's no danger there either. A major distinction between the UK and the US, is that when a UK consumer buys a piece of software, he owns that copy of the program - wheras a US consumer merely owns a license to use that software (under just about whatever terms the software producer sees fit). Andrew I must mention that ftp.nvg is in Norway. So if we think on putting software in disk images onto web, we must look to Norway laws. (I think.) Also when using SimCoupe, we must look to local copyright laws in every single country. For example here in Czechland there is no copyright. Interesting? We know only author's rights, not copyright, and they cannot be sold. (Since author is still the author, and he still has his rights.) Aley [eili] Keprt - student, programmer (multimedia soft. etc.) phone: +420-68-538 70 35 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** http://get.to/aley
RE: New Argument about COPYING (WAS CLOSING ARGUEEMENT ON - SimCoupe protected disks Copyright )
David Ledbury wrote: Some already does ;) Especially if it happens to be the Atom ;) Owners of the Atom still can't use the hard disk for existing protected titles tho - if I owned the hard disk I wouldn't be too happy about that. As usual, the protection ends up as more of a disadvantage for the legal owner, as people that want to hack/copy them will still do it anyway. SAM software disks could always be personalised with the details of the owner before being sent out, as people will be a lot less likely to distribute disks if their name and address is part of them. The Spectrum emulator Z80 does (or at least _did_) this, and sections of code are decrypted using those details to stop a simple patching job from getting around it. It wouldn't help the software already out there, but it'd be a start. Selling the software on to someone else would be interesting tho! Si
Re: CLOSING ARGUEEMENT ON - SimCoupe protected disks C
. @ 1 point i was about to DUMP all my sam stuff onto NVG's ftp for all to have , this would have included the ablility to recreate a POP/LEMS disk with out any probs at all (I Still have MAsters) , and E-Copy 3. But was asked not to so what was still being sold on Sam could continue and bring in what little money was still coming in. Chris Do it. Everybody who has ever wanted to buy lemmings or pop has got it now surely - I wouldn't even know where to point someone t buy a copy. The SAM world can only survive if we start to pool our resources and help to advance SIM Coupe ie. getting it running in WIn32 properly. (Still no nearer tofinding that Win32 version - anybody going to let me in on th esecret?) Peace, Love, Kisses... JohnnaPig Teare JPOL: http://johnnapig.webjump.com It won't get better but it might never get worse...
RE: CLOSING ARGUEEMENT ON - SimCoupe protected disks C
JohnnaPig Teare wrote: Everybody who has ever wanted to buy lemmings or pop has got it now surely - I wouldn't even know where to point someone t buy a copy. I've only just picked a few things up 2nd hand, as I couldn't see anywhere obvious and easy to buy them from. Last night was the first time I've seen Lemmings on the SAM - great fun! I'm just waiting for my order from Persona that includes Defender... The SAM world can only survive if we start to pool our resources and help to advance SIM Coupe ie. getting it running in WIn32 properly. My thoughts exactly, but one or more people on this list still see the emulator as a threat. (Still no nearer tofinding that Win32 version - anybody going to let me in on th esecret?) The original archive is still available as http://www.obobo.demon.co.uk/sc.zip but lacks all sorts of things that have been put in since (it's windowed only, but you can use F5 to change screen size). I've not had much time to work on it recently, and there are a few things that still need to be done before it's worth replacing the old archive. Si
Re: CLOSING ARGUEEMENT ON - SimCoupe protected disks Copyright
Not paranioa , just not happy with peeps thinking that there is nothing wrong (or hoping) , with transfering software from on form to another and calling it a backup. but it doesn't say anywhere that the backup has to be made on the same medium so i dont figure theres a legal basis for it being wrong the 'product' is the program, which remains unchanged, no matter what medium it is held on . the medium is just that, something to hold the actual program... its not directly connected with it in any way, so theres no reason why it should be illegal to move things between media... tum tum tum martin -- Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ#: 11077801 AOL/CServeIM: Flupert
Re: New Argument about COPYING (WAS CLOSING ARGUEEMENT ON - SimCoupe protected disks Copyright )
On Wed, 21 Apr 1999 09:27:02 +0100 Wed, 21 Apr 99 20:00:12 BST, Si Owen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: SAM software disks could always be personalised with the details of the owner before being sent out, as people will be a lot less likely to distribute disks if their name and address is part of them. The Spectrum emulator Z80 does (or at least _did_) this, and sections of code are decrypted using those details to stop a simple patching job from getting around it. It wouldn't help the software already out there, but it'd be a start. Selling the software on to someone else would be interesting tho! That sounds like a good idea. In theory an installer program that could only work with a personalised key; showing the purchaser's name and address at the start of the game, etc. I guess that's where the PIIIs ID number might be handy in future. However, I don't think Chris would be interested in doing retrospective protection work for his old games. :) Dave
Re: CLOSING ARGUEEMENT ON - SimCoupe protected disks C
On Wed, 21 Apr 1999 13:43:44 +0100 Wed, 21 Apr 99 20:00:23 BST, Si Owen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The SAM world can only survive if we start to pool our resources and help to advance SIM Coupe ie. getting it running in WIn32 properly. My thoughts exactly, but one or more people on this list still see the emulator as a threat. Only one person, as far as I can see. I used to think Bob was a meglomaniac, but they're two of a kind really (ouch, I felt that myself!:)) Dave
Re: CLOSING ARGUEEMENT ON - SimCoupe protected disks Copyright
Richard Jowett wrote: According to a TV program It is illegal to chip and maybe even to own a chipped PSX (not sure if they said own). Yet loads of shops/people are offering this service, but nothing is really being done about them. If a company as big as Sony cannot stop this then Smaller companies don't stand much chance. maybe its like some walkie-talkies(1), i.e., its not illegal to own them, sell them, make them or whatever just use them is it actually illegal to do it? i mean what law are you breaking by simply producing a bit of circuitry? using it would be illegal though, cos then the purpose for which the thing was build is pretty explicit... maybe martin fitzpatrick (1) completely unfounded in any real-life knowledge, and instead just some vague memory from my childhood - when i stood opposite a sweetie stall in leeds market (ahh, them were the days)... my dad told me this so again, its quite possibly bull. anyway, it was just another excuse for a footnote... they're quite good really. -- Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ#: 11077801 AOL/CServeIM: Flupert
Re: CLOSING ARGUEEMENT ON - SimCoupe protected disks Copyright
On Mon, 19 Apr 1999 22:28:35 +0100 Mon, 19 Apr 99 23:31:01 BST, Martin Fitzpatrick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on with the PSX thread. Well, no one is complaining yet maybe its like some walkie-talkies(1), i.e., its not illegal to own them, sell them, make them or whatever just use them is it actually illegal to do it? i mean what law are you breaking by simply producing a bit of circuitry? using it would be illegal though, cos then the purpose for which the thing was build is pretty explicit... maybe martin fitzpatrick The SAM was built on the success of a wonderful backup (read pirate) device called the Plus D (based on the earlier DisCiple - did I get the funky spelling/case right Bob?). Because the speccy was near the end of its life as a money making games platform (due to the Amigas and Ataris, and because unc Clive sold out) nobody really cared. MGT used to advocate backing up tapes to disk (or disc - for Bob) and certain publications would give out information on how to hack awkward programs so that they would work from disk. But there appears to be an unforgivable difference in us wanting to run floppy software from a hard drive. The Hypocrisy sometimes aired in this mailing list is killing me; but it's a fun way to die. :-) Dave
Re: CLOSING ARGUEEMENT ON - SimCoupe protected disks Copyright
The SAM was built on the success of a wonderful backup (read pirate) device called the Plus D (based on the earlier DisCiple - did I get the funky spelling/case right Bob?). Because the speccy was near the end of its life as a money making games platform (due to the Amigas and Ataris, and because unc Clive sold out) nobody really cared. MGT used to advocate backing up tapes to disk (or disc - for Bob) and certain publications would give out information on how to hack awkward programs so that they would work from disk. But there appears to be an unforgivable difference in us wanting to run floppy software from a hard drive. The Hypocrisy sometimes aired in this mailing list is killing me; but it's a fun way to die. :-) The Disciple was stolen from Bruce , and he never got any money from them this is why the PlusD can about. As for advocating Copying Tape to Disk , this was not the case as it stated that it was for BACKING UP you current Tape software to Disk. And should not be used as a COPYING DEVICE What Hypocrisy is that, did i miss anything :) Chris
RE: CLOSING ARGUEEMENT ON - SimCoupe protected disks Copyrig ht
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] MGT used to advocate backing up tapes to disk (or disc - for Bob) and certain publications would give out information on how to hack awkward programs so that they would work from disk. But there appears to be an unforgivable difference in us wanting to run floppy software from a hard drive. Maybe we aren't allowed to copy stuff from floppy disks but copying floppy discs is ok? The Hypocrisy sometimes aired in this mailing list is killing me; but it's a fun way to die. :-) *grin* Jut (Calmed down from being told by PC World that I was denied credit to buy a PC - All I want to do is play with that digital camera and run SimCoupe!!)
RE: CLOSING ARGUEEMENT ON - SimCoupe protected disks Copyrig ht
maybe its like some walkie-talkies(1), i.e., its not illegal to own them, sell them, make them or whatever just use them is it actually illegal to do it? i mean what law are you breaking by simply producing a bit of circuitry? using it would be illegal though, cos then the purpose for which the thing was build is pretty explicit... maybe You're right. Same with scanners (radio ones, not photography) and even TVs. You can go into Argos to buy either but you can't use them without respective licenses. Jut.
Re: CLOSING ARGUEEMENT ON - SimCoupe protected disks Copyright
The Disciple was stolen from Bruce , and he never got any money from them this is why the PlusD can about. As for advocating Copying Tape to Disk , this was not the case as it stated that it was for BACKING UP you current Tape software to Disk. And should not be used as a COPYING DEVICE I'm getting quite confused about this whole thing are we saying that we can't transfer floppy software to hard drive, cos if so, that's completely crap. If you ask me, there's a halfway house between backing-up and copying - and that's transferring. If I buy some software, I expect to be able to run it from whatever storage media I choose. I think I must have missed the whole point of this argument! Are we talking about Playstations or the SAM?! Oh, and as for the SAM being built on the back of profits from a piracy device, am I right in thinking that (at the SAM's launch) the NMI button was touted as some sort of magic back-up button? Andy
Re: CLOSING ARGUEEMENT ON - SimCoupe protected disks Copyright
Based on what I know of Norwegian law and the ongoing normalization to EEC law, hence also EU, the point of copyright on anything is so that no one else but you can make money on whatever you 'invent', being a new computer or an algorithm, unless you explicedly say it is OK. Some countries, which have copyright, differs whether you activly have to claim copyright or not, but that's besides the point. The practise of backing up anything is so that you as customer are allowed to make sure your investmenst are not lost. Hence, you are allowed to make back-ups (within limits to how many and if you are able to controll the media) as long as no one profits from this (except from the supplier of back-up media :). The situation in the US is a bit more complicated than this as far as I know. -Frode
Re: CLOSING ARGUEEMENT ON - SimCoupe protected disks Copyright
to EEC law, hence also EU, the point of copyright on anything is so that no one else but you can make money on whatever you 'invent', This is generally how I understand it, but I do think copyright is also there to ensure that the owner gets as much profit as he can from each individual. Take the example of a map (Ordnance Survey are quite uppity about copyright). You might think it reasonable for you to take a photocopy so that your original doesn't get wrecked whilst you're out hiking, but not so: you're supposed to buy another copy. This, as far as I can see, is not about ensuring that others don't make money from your invention but about ensuring the inventor isn't deprived of profit. Of course, it's less to do with each individual having two copies, and more to do with stopping people photocopying in private libraries. Andy
Re: CLOSING ARGUEEMENT ON - SimCoupe protected disks Copyright
to EEC law, hence also EU, the point of copyright on anything is so that no one else but you can make money on whatever you 'invent', This is generally how I understand it, but I do think copyright is also there to ensure that the owner gets as much profit as he can from each individual. Take the example of a map (Ordnance Survey are quite uppity about copyright). You might think it reasonable for you to take a photocopy so that your original doesn't get wrecked whilst you're out hiking, but not so: you're supposed to buy another copy. This, as far as I can see, is not about ensuring that others don't make money from your invention but about ensuring the inventor isn't deprived of profit. Of course, it's less to do with each individual having two copies, and more to do with stopping people photocopying in private libraries. I think there is a way for you to make a copy. As I understand this you are allowed to make a photocopy (or a diskcopy for software) and save this away in a safe, drawer, pocket of a suit in a locker, etc. and use the original (or vice versa for that matter). However, you are not allowed to make a photocopy and use this as a second original, ie. for another person in the office. -Frode Andy
New Argument about COPYING (WAS CLOSING ARGUEEMENT ON - SimCoupe protected disks Copyright )
The Disciple was stolen from Bruce , and he never got any money from them this is why the PlusD can about. As for advocating Copying Tape to Disk , this was not the case as it stated that it was for BACKING UP you current Tape software to Disk. And should not be used as a COPYING DEVICE I'm getting quite confused about this whole thing are we saying that we can't transfer floppy software to hard drive, cos if so, that's completely crap. If you ask me, there's a halfway house between backing-up and copying - and that's transferring. If I buy some software, I expect to be able to run it from whatever storage media I choose. You are only alloud to run software on the media you purchased it. That music , you are not alloud to copy from CD to Tape even for your own use , like in your car etc, this is Illegal copying off media. The unwritten law that everyone says is legal , is to beable to PROTECT the possiblility of them (or others) damaging their purchases. And having to buy another one if this occurs , and once again I have to point out that if you damaged your TV do you buy another one or restore from a BACKUP :) A side point has just entered me head , if you are aloud to backup you CD's then why is it Illegal to BACKUP audio CD's for personnal use? I think I must have missed the whole point of this argument! Are we talking about Playstations or the SAM?! Anythink i think but all is relavent in time :) Oh, and as for the SAM being built on the back of profits from a piracy device, am I right in thinking that (at the SAM's launch) the NMI button was touted as some sort of magic back-up button? No it was touted as a Hardware Break button for debuging and was easily stopped in software , and also had the same effect (By coisidence ) of a Disciple/PlusD NMI button :) @ the end of the day is any of this really getting us anywhere , some peeps think its there right to BACKUP their software , other believe that you have broken BACKUPRIGHT law (read COPYRIGHT) as you have COPIED something with out the CONSENT of the COPYRIGHT owner. For those that think they are doing nothing wrong then please send your Name Address to FAST or ELSPA and please forward me you Prision address so I may keep you abreast of Sam News :) Chris
Re: New Argument about COPYING (WAS CLOSING ARGUEEMENT ON - SimCoupe protected disks Copyright )
You are only alloud to run software on the media you purchased it. That music , you are not alloud to copy from CD to Tape even for your own use , like in your car etc, this is Illegal copying off media. So does that mean SAM software will be coming on Hard Drives in the future?
Re: New Argument about COPYING (WAS CLOSING ARGUEEMENT ON - SimCoupe protected disks Copyright )
I'm getting quite confused about this whole thing are we saying that we can't transfer floppy software to hard drive, cos if so, that's completely crap. If you ask me, there's a halfway house between backing-up and copying - and that's transferring. If I buy some software, I expect to be able to run it from whatever storage media I choose. You are only alloud to run software on the media you purchased it. That music , you are not alloud to copy from CD to Tape even for your own use , like in your car etc, this is Illegal copying off media. Sorry, TONO, the local CISAC, has stated that copying music is legal in any form as long as nobody makes money out of it, it is private and it is on a small scale. This means that you are allowed to make a copy of a CD and give this to your friend if you do not take money from it and this is done only a small number of times. This is how the current law in Norway and as far as I know the rest of Europe, except for Denmark. There it is explicetly forbidden to make private digital copying in general (with all the new criminals this creates). This is analog for all copyright material as far as I can see. -Frode
Re: New Argument about COPYING (WAS CLOSING ARGUEEMENT ON - SimCoupe protected disks Copyright )
You are only alloud to run software on the media you purchased it. That music , you are not alloud to copy from CD to Tape even for your own use , like in your car etc, this is Illegal copying off media. So does that mean SAM software will be coming on Hard Drives in the future? No, but if the INSTALL that comes with the Software allows you to put onto HD then you may (But only if you OWN the original), this is called AUTHORIZEATION from the Copyright Holder to INSTALL 1 Copy onto a HD , and to only have 1 copy on any HD from 1 Original :) But then again wouldn't it be could good to get a new HD everytime you bought some Softy might stop all the crap that ends up in my windows DIR Chris
Re: New Argument about COPYING (WAS CLOSING ARGUEEMENT ON - SimCoupe protected disks Copyright )
Frode Tenneboe wrote: I'm getting quite confused about this whole thing are we saying that we can't transfer floppy software to hard drive, cos if so, that's completely crap. If you ask me, there's a halfway house between backing-up and copying - and that's transferring. If I buy some software, I expect to be able to run it from whatever storage media I choose. You are only alloud to run software on the media you purchased it. That music , you are not alloud to copy from CD to Tape even for your own use , like in your car etc, this is Illegal copying off media. Sorry, TONO, the local CISAC, has stated that copying music is legal in any form as long as nobody makes money out of it, it is private and it is on a small scale. This means that you are allowed to make a copy of a CD and give this to your friend if you do not take money from it and this is done only a small number of times. This is how the current law in Norway and as far as I know the rest of Europe, except for Denmark. There it is explicetly forbidden to make private digital copying in general (with all the new criminals this creates). This is analog for all copyright material as far as I can see. -Frode In the UK, you are not allowed to copy music and give it to your friends. You are not even technically allowed to lend the original to your friends either. Most works come with a standard notice along the lines of This may not be lent, hired, copied or exhibited in public without the express written consent of the publisher etc.etc. These rules are, of course, flouted, but small-scale non-profit instances would usually be overlooked. When it comes to software, most licence agreements state that you are allowed to make backup copies for your own use (indeed most software publishers recommend this). I don't know whether there is a specific law or not. Books and printed matter may not be copied or reproduced in any manner whatsoever except for educational or review purposes. -- Andrew Gallagher http://members.tripod.com/~AndrewGallagher/id.html
Re: New Argument about COPYING (WAS CLOSING ARGUEEMENT ON - SimCoupe protected disks Copyright )
At 1:05 pm +0100 20/4/99, Chris White wrote: @ the end of the day is any of this really getting us anywhere Correct. So when will you STOP perpetuating the thREAD?? , some peeps think its there right to BACKUP their software The law of England says you are *allowed* TO. It says so specifically. It says so explicitly. ON those grounds alone, you are *allowed* TO, in England. The act has been quoted already. What more do you want??! , other believe that you have broken BACKUPRIGHT law (read COPYRIGHT) as you have COPIED something with out the CONSENT of the COPYRIGHT owner. People who believe that are just *wrong* in England. This can be proven by REFerence TO English law. COPYright law is NOT so simple as you're making OUT. It DOes NOT AUTOmatically give the author the right TO STOP people from making a BACKUP COPY - NOT IN all FORseeable circumstances, AT least. IF the law says someONe is legally allowed TO make a BACKUP COPY, THEN he DOesn't require the cONsent of the COPYright holder. The COPYright holder canNOT STOP people from making a BACKUP COPY. For those that think they are doing nothing wrong then please send your Name Address to FAST or ELSPA and please forward me you Prision address so I may keep you abreast of Sam News :) POW! STOP trying TO argue the law! The law is NOT ON your side!! Why DO you keep PUSHing this thREAD, when the law DEFines that you are wrong and I am right? Mutter, mutter, mutter, mutter, mutter. Andrew -- | Andrew Collier | email [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Talk sense to a | Part 2 NatSci | http://carou.sel.cam.ac.uk/ | fool and he ++-+ calls you foolish | Selwyn College Student Computer Support Team | -- Euripides
Re: New Argument about COPYING (WAS CLOSING ARGUEEMENT ON -SimCoupe protected disks Copyright )
POW! STOP trying TO argue the law! The law is NOT ON your side!! Why DO you keep PUSHing this thREAD, when the law DEFines that you are wrong and I am right? Mutter, mutter, mutter, mutter, mutter. Andrew For those that think they are doing nothing wrong then please send your Name Address to FAST or ELSPA and please forward me you Prision address so I may keep you abreast of Sam News :) Then please do the ABOVE what does a EMAIL Cost you , do you want the Email address Chris
Re: New Argument about COPYING (WAS CLOSING ARGUEEMENT ON -SimCoupe protected disks Copyright )
At 4:44 pm +0100 20/4/99, Chris White wrote: For those that think they are doing nothing wrong then please send your Name Address to FAST or ELSPA and please forward me you Prision address so I may keep you abreast of Sam News :) BECAUSE I DON'T NEED TO. Section 50A of The UK Copyright (Computer Programs) Regulations 1992 is totally clear. The LAW defines what is right and what is wrong in this argument. I never thought I'd do this, but *PLONK*. Andrew -- | Andrew Collier | email [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Talk sense to a | Part 2 NatSci | http://carou.sel.cam.ac.uk/ | fool and he ++-+ calls you foolish | Selwyn College Student Computer Support Team | -- Euripides
Re: New Argument about COPYING (WAS CLOSING ARGUEEMENT ON - SimCoupe protected disks Copyright )
lent, hired, copied or exhibited in public without the express written consent In public. That refers to (for example) showing a video-tape in a branch of Dixons without permission, it's got nowt to do with lending a CD to a friend. Paul -- The hippo of recollection stirred in the muddy waters of the mind. -- Terry Pratchett, Soul Music
Re: New Argument about COPYING (WAS CLOSING ARGUEEMENT ON -SimCoupe protected disks Copyright )
On Tue, 20 Apr 1999, Chris White wrote: For those that think they are doing nothing wrong then please send your Name Address to FAST or ELSPA and please forward me you Prision address so I may keep you abreast of Sam News :) Chris, just because you don't like or agree with the LAW doesn't mean it's not the LAW. Peopled ARE allowed to make genuine backups. Deal with it. -- Robert
Re: New Argument about COPYING (WAS CLOSING ARGUEEMENT ON - SimCoupe protected disks Copyright )
Paul Walker wrote: lent, hired, copied or exhibited in public without the express written consent In public. That refers to (for example) showing a video-tape in a branch of Dixons without permission, it's got nowt to do with lending a CD to a friend. LENT, hired, copied or exhibited in public I said... -- Andrew Gallagher http://members.tripod.com/~AndrewGallagher/id.html
Re: New Argument about COPYING (WAS CLOSING ARGUEEMENT ON -SimCoupe protected disks Copyright )
Van: Robert Brady [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aan: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Onderwerp: Re: New Argument about COPYING (WAS CLOSING ARGUEEMENT ON -SimCoupe protected disks Copyright ) Datum: Tuesday, April 20, 1999 7:25 Chris, just because you don't like or agree with the LAW doesn't mean it's not the LAW. Peopled ARE allowed to make genuine backups. Deal with it. And those people do themselves a favour if they kept their mouths shut about it. See no evil hear no evil, right? It is not correct, i know but it makes it a lot easier. -- Robert van der Veeke, aka RJV Graphics [EMAIL PROTECTED] Currently listening to : Brain Powerd - OST - (sigh finally :)
Re: New Argument about COPYING (WAS CLOSING ARGUEEMENT ON - SimCoupe protected disks Copyright )
Why DO you keep PUSHing this thREAD, when the law DEFines that you are wrong and I am right? Why do I get the feeling you're using a programmers editor? Paul -- I find it ironic that many of the people who are misinformed about the start of the next millennium consistently misspell it. -- Richard White (CS) in sci.skeptic
Re: New Argument about COPYING (WAS CLOSING ARGUEEMENT ON -SimCoupe protected disks Copyright )
Okay done some digging and ask LOADS of question to allsort's of peeps in the industry and have come up with the following FACT about The UK Copyright (Computer Programs) Regulations 1992 , and have extacted the following Back up Copies (see section 50A) Lawful users can make back up copies even if this is not expressly permitted in the terms of the agreement. But the copyright owner(s) may remove this right by the terms of the contract if they provide alternative facilities in case of a disaster. As far as MOST publishers of today are concerned , they will replace software if media is found defective. But if damage though neglect (My point all along :) ) they will not replace. So if a Publisher offers a replacement free (Except for PP) of Degraded Media. You are NOT entitled to BACKUP their software. I would like to admit my over protective/relsilant nature to the following LAW , and do agree that you MAY correct and Errors in Software , but you MAY NOT modify a program that does perform as intended : Correction of Errors (see section 50C) Unless it is expressly forbidden in the contract lawful users are permitted to adapt a program to correct an error. However this could invalidate the maintenance or support agreement so this right must be used with care. Please not that the The UK Copyright (Computer Programs) Regulations was ammend in 1998 , for what reason i Am still looking into but will have the reason soon. My point all along is that MOST peeps only make a BACKUP of software for NON LEGAL reasons , and if a) Nobody Reverse engineered / Modifyed Copyright Material b) Nobody made BACKUPS of Copyright Material c) Nobody made/modified Hardware to use BACKUP's d) Everyone agreed that if the creation of any hardware/software that would by past potection or enable the BACKUP of otherwise UNBACKUPABLE software was ILLEGAL There would be LESS PIRACY , but then again it could all be a dream. Just my point (of which i am entitled to by LAW), just as Andrew Collier , Andrew Gallagher Robert Brady will for sure have another flaming seasion with this, I don't care my view are my own and i will voice them as i see fit (As long as I don't intentionally Offend anyone) Chris
Re: CLOSING ARGUEEMENT ON - SimCoupe protected disks Copyright
On Tue, 20 Apr 1999 01:07:09 +0100 Tue, 20 Apr 99 18:04:15 BST, Chris White [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As for advocating Copying Tape to Disk , this was not the case as it stated that it was for BACKING UP you current Tape software to Disk. And should not be used as a COPYING DEVICE Okay then, I see where you're coming from. However, if that's alright, what's wrong with BACKING UP your current floppy software to a hard disk? Why is it so taboo for us to contemplate playing your SAM conversions of POP or Lemmings from a hard disk on an emulated SAM? It seems like a natural progression on what everyone's been doing with speccy games for years. What Hypocrisy is that, did i miss anything :) Dunno. I must've missed it too! No, seriously Chris, just ease off on the paranioa a bit! No one wants to do you any harm. Some of us just want to be lazy and run everything from one box. :) Dave
Re: CLOSING ARGUEEMENT ON - SimCoupe protected disks Copyright
Okay then, I see where you're coming from. However, if that's alright, what's wrong with BACKING UP your current floppy software to a hard disk? Why is it so taboo for us to contemplate playing your SAM conversions of POP or Lemmings from a hard disk on an emulated SAM? It seems like a natural progression on what everyone's been doing with speccy games for years. Once you can copy POP or LEMS to HD , then their will be loads of oppotunity to freely pass on copies as they see fit , this will be the case for most other software with unusual disk layout. What Hypocrisy is that, did i miss anything :) Dunno. I must've missed it too! No, seriously Chris, just ease off on the paranioa a bit! No one wants to do you any harm. Some of us just want to be lazy and run everything from one box. :) Not paranioa , just not happy with peeps thinking that there is nothing wrong (or hoping) , with transfering software from on form to another and calling it a backup. @ 1 point i was about to DUMP all my sam stuff onto NVG's ftp for all to have , this would have included the ablility to recreate a POP/LEMS disk with out any probs at all (I Still have MAsters) , and E-Copy 3. But was asked not to so what was still being sold on Sam could continue and bring in what little money was still coming in. Chris
Re: New Argument about COPYING (WAS CLOSING ARGUEEMENT ON - SimCoupe protected disks Copyright )
Some already does ;) Especially if it happens to be the Atom ;) -Original Message- From: Andrew Gale [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: 20 April 1999 13:35 Subject: Re: New Argument about COPYING (WAS CLOSING ARGUEEMENT ON - SimCoupe protected disks Copyright ) So does that mean SAM software will be coming on Hard Drives in the future?
Re: New Argument about COPYING (WAS CLOSING ARGUEEMENT ON - SimCoupe protected disks Copyright )
On Tue, 20 Apr 1999 18:20:37 +0100 Tue, 20 Apr 99 20:17:50 BST, Paul Walker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why DO you keep PUSHing this thREAD, when the law DEFines that you are wrong and I am right? Why do I get the feeling you're using a programmers editor? I don't know what's happening (durrr)... there's a few new ones happening too. I've never seen an editor that tokenises LAW, for example. :-) Dave
Re: CLOSING ARGUEEMENT ON - SimCoupe protected disks Copyright
Maybe it is more sinister. The protection seemed to mainly be directed to stopping illegal imports, or that's at the top of the list on this subject in the PSX mags. Don't know why because all the imports seem to cost more and aren't always in English. Maybe if the station wasn't protected the games would be cheaper? Richard -Original Message- From: Dave Whitmore [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: 18 April 1999 10:31 Subject: Re: CLOSING ARGUEEMENT ON - SimCoupe protected disks Copyright (sorry, I know this isn't 'PSX Users':)) Not only that. Have you seen those 'chip' cartridges available at the shows for £8 upwards? Plugs in the stations parallel port and you don't need to have the station chipped. They were selling them by the bucketload(1) in at a show in Manchester yesterday. I think Sony are burying their heads in the sand over all this, or something more sinister. I mean, I always thought that the strategy was to make the money on the software and sell the machines as cheap as possible. However, like the Amiga, it seems to be the availability of pirate stuff that drives people to buy the machine in the first place. So they're selling more stations than ever, and the only people who really suffer are the developers. The thing is, if these chips are illegal, then most of the PSX owning populace of the North West of England are criminals. Dunno about other places. Dave (1) Well, not literally. Just a handy excuse for a footnote.
Re: CLOSING ARGUEEMENT ON - SimCoupe protected disks Copyright
Maybe it is more sinister. The protection seemed to mainly be directed to stopping illegal imports, or that's at the top of the list on this subject in the PSX mags. Don't know why because all the imports seem to cost more and aren't always in English. Maybe if the station wasn't protected the games would be cheaper? This is most peoples misconception, games cost so much 'cause SHOP want 40% , Licenses want 12-25% (Sony , Nintendo , Sega) Developers usually get 2-5% MAX And lastly Games are not MAIN STREAM like MUSIC CD's , take GT for PSX , has only sold 2 million world wide , which is SMALL Chris
Re: CLOSING ARGUEEMENT ON - SimCoupe protected disks Copyright
And lastly Games are not MAIN STREAM like MUSIC CD's , take GT for PSX , has only sold 2 million world wide , which is SMALL Games *for the playstation* might not be mainstream. There are, however, billions of pounds spent on games world-wide. It might just be a comment on the conversion of GT to the playstation, I've seen some absolutely shit conversions. Paul -- Mustrum Ridcully did a lot for rare species. For one thing, he kept them rare. -- Terry Pratchett, Lords and Ladies
Re: CLOSING ARGUEEMENT ON - SimCoupe protected disks Copyright
And lastly Games are not MAIN STREAM like MUSIC CD's , take GT for PSX , has only sold 2 million world wide , which is SMALL Games *for the playstation* might not be mainstream. There are, however, billions of pounds spent on games world-wide. It might just be a comment on the conversion of GT to the playstation, I've seen some absolutely shit conversions. GT as in GRAN TURISMO (not spelt right) ? Billions of pounds on software ? , maybe overall but not everone has a console/computer and most that do don't use it to its fullest and buy a new game because XX have released a new one, Lets take Cliff Richard , every time he release's a new album , my mom goes out a buys it . Just like many other peeps who follow groups , like Take That / Boy Zone / Spice Girls etc they need LOADS of peeps to buy their CD's , in thier BILLIONS world wide. Most PC games MAX out on 200k-300k Some (1-2 per Qtr) make the 1Million mark Another point is WIn95 , when it was released their was a servay done with peeps in a mile long que as to why they where buying Win95 , and 90% answered they did not know , they just knew they had to have it?? ( This could just be a computer story , but have read it in trade press CTW some time ago?) Computer are still miffs to a large percentage of the peeps , and most are still having probs setting console up to their TV, so main stream it is FAR from and will be untill my kids have kids Chris Ps. then their will be no programmer/artist to make softyware for them ,
Re: CLOSING ARGUEEMENT ON - SimCoupe protected disks Copyright
According to a TV program It is illegal to chip and maybe even to own a chipped PSX (not sure if they said own). Yet loads of shops/people are offering this service, but nothing is really being done about them. If a company as big as Sony cannot stop this then Smaller companies don't stand much chance. Richard -Original Message- From: Chris White [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: 10 April 1999 10:33 Subject: Re: CLOSING ARGUEEMENT ON - SimCoupe protected disks Copyright Sharp intake of breath Look for a safer platform to write for Chris! Every kid around here has a 'chipped' station. But if someone had not reverse engineered the PSX , then these kid (That could not do it themselves) would not have a CHIPPED psx , but then things are not That bad , but they could be better @ the end of the day proceeds of cash you buy software go as follows 40% - Shop 10-20% - First Party (Nintendo,Sega,Sony etc.) 5% - Distrubutor (From Publihser to Shop) 2% - Developer Sad, isnit? Yep , Chris
Re: E-Copy 3 (was: Re: SimCoupe protected disks)
And that's because all my source disks are still back home in the UK, taking up space in Martin Maria's loft.. Si Erm, that should be source disks *were* ... taking up space. You told us we'd have to dump your stuff because your dad didn't have room for it. Maria. So I was correct then :) Chris
Re: CLOSING ARGUEEMENT ON - SimCoupe protected disks Copyright
On Sun, 18 Apr 1999 02:39:43 +0100 Sun, 18 Apr 99 11:42:51 BST, Richard Jowett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: According to a TV program It is illegal to chip and maybe even to own a chipped PSX (not sure if they said own). Yet loads of shops/people are offering this service, but nothing is really being done about them. If a company as big as Sony cannot stop this then Smaller companies don't stand much chance. (sorry, I know this isn't 'PSX Users':)) Not only that. Have you seen those 'chip' cartridges available at the shows for £8 upwards? Plugs in the stations parallel port and you don't need to have the station chipped. They were selling them by the bucketload(1) in at a show in Manchester yesterday. I think Sony are burying their heads in the sand over all this, or something more sinister. I mean, I always thought that the strategy was to make the money on the software and sell the machines as cheap as possible. However, like the Amiga, it seems to be the availability of pirate stuff that drives people to buy the machine in the first place. So they're selling more stations than ever, and the only people who really suffer are the developers. The thing is, if these chips are illegal, then most of the PSX owning populace of the North West of England are criminals. Dunno about other places. Dave (1) Well, not literally. Just a handy excuse for a footnote.
Re: Sam Juggler (Re: SimCoupe protected disks)
On Fri, 16 Apr 1999 20:42:26 +0100 Sat, 17 Apr 99 00:54:05 BST, David [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is there any other stuff that doesn't work with SimCoupe? (disk protection excluded, for now) Defender - thank goodness! pedant He said disk protection excluded for christsakes! \pedant Dave
Re: E-Copy 3 (was: Re: SimCoupe protected disks)
And that's because all my source disks are still back home in the UK, taking up space in Martin Maria's loft.. Si Erm, that should be source disks *were* ... taking up space. You told us we'd have to dump your stuff because your dad didn't have room for it. Maria.
RE: Sam Juggler (Re: SimCoupe protected disks)
Dave Whitmore wrote: On Fri, 16 Apr 1999 20:42:26 +0100 Sat, 17 Apr 99 00:54:05 BST, David [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Defender - thank goodness! pedant He said disk protection excluded for christsakes! \pedant I think he might be referring to some HPEN synchonisation stuff mentioned a while back ; there's probably no reason why they both can't be 'fixed'. }:- 'thank goodness!' - hmmm, I can guess... Si
Re: Fred on the web (Re: SimCoupe protected disks)
And that is really down to Colin MacDonald and whoever takes over the running of the Fred Software range -Original Message- From: Aley Keprt [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: 15 April 1999 17:14 Subject: Fred on the web (Re: SimCoupe protected disks) Again: If Fred would be distributed in DSK form, it is still Fred magazine, and there is no violation of copyrights. The only problem I can see is to bring Fred publisher to put it on the web.
Re: Sam Juggler (Re: SimCoupe protected disks)
I Seem To Recall... -Original Message- From: Aley Keprt [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: 15 April 1999 17:27 Subject: Sam Juggler (Re: SimCoupe protected disks) What means ISTR?
RE: Sam Juggler (Re: SimCoupe protected disks)
Aley Keprt wrote: Juggler seems to use standard disk format, but it doesn't work in emulator. Any idea? It's appears to be a bug in the SimCoupe floppy controller, caused by each disk side being treated as a full drive controller with its own set of registers etc. The only time the side bit of the port seems to be needed is for actual data reads and writes. Juggler steps the drive head using the I/O ports for the same side it wanted to move to (224-227 for side 0, 228-231 for side 1), but always checked the track value using the first 4 ports (side 0). So, as soon as it reached side 1 the track value it read back was always going to be stuck at 79 (the last track position on side 0), leaving Juggler in an infinite loop trying to get to the next position. It probably also explains some strange logs I've seen where SAMDOS seems do single steps that wrap the track below zero then back down to the track position needed. Is there any other stuff that doesn't work with SimCoupe? (disk protection excluded, for now) Si
RE: Sam Juggler (Re: SimCoupe protected disks)
At 11:37 am +0100 16/4/99, Si Owen wrote: Is there any other stuff that doesn't work with SimCoupe? (disk protection excluded, for now) MNEMOdemo1 part 2 (my bit) crashes. I never did manage to work out exactly why, but I rather suspect it has to do with interrupt timings. Also, according to the website, SamDice crashes on startup, and the Surprise demo crashes before starting part 1. Andrew -- | Andrew Collier | email [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Talk sense to a | Part 2 NatSci | http://carou.sel.cam.ac.uk/ | fool and he ++-+ calls you foolish | Selwyn College Student Computer Support Team | -- Euripides
Re: Sam Juggler (Re: SimCoupe protected disks)
-Original Message- From: Andrew Collier [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Date: 16 April 1999 20:30 Subject: RE: Sam Juggler (Re: SimCoupe protected disks) At 11:37 am +0100 16/4/99, Si Owen wrote: Is there any other stuff that doesn't work with SimCoupe? (disk protection excluded, for now) Defender - thank goodness!
Lifetime (was: Re: CLOSING ARGUEEMENT ON - SimCoupe protected disks Copyright)
I have my floppies since 1991. And most of them work. 97% w/o errors, 3% with some sectors bad. Doesn't is this enought? (I have stored floppies in antistatic boxes.) The main problem of CD's is not the lifetime, the main problem is called people. Many people are unable to keep the CD's in good condition. If we could keep the CD's surface clean, they could alive. ;) Aley [eili] Keprt - student, programmer (multimedia soft. etc.) phone: +420-68-538 70 35 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** http://get.to/aley
Re: SimCoupe protected disks
Chris White wrote: your are not aloud to create a copy of anything , without the copyright owners permission. Having a backup of a disk thats not used for illegal purposes , is like have a gun and NEVER thinks of firing it (Pointless) Are you 100% sure about this? The +D interface on the Spectrum was fairly well geared towards transferring tape based software to disk, and that seemed to be acceptable. Is that any different from what is being done when creating disk images? Microdrive disk drives for ZXS was 15 years ago. That time people didn't think like we do now. Making Microdrive is the same as making disk image creator. You can use it to backup your own software (made by you). So making a floppy-to-image converter is legal, using it is legal too. You can use it on protected disks too. Chris White can use it to duplicate his own games :) It is still legal. The problem of copying protected disks is not a problem of that converter. Converter is surely legal, you simply cannot create illegal copies of anything. (The same as monitor: To have a monitor is legal, but if you throw it on somebody's head and kill him, this is illegal, not monitor itself.) The only I want to say is that if somebody makes and distributes a program which will convert protected disks to disk image and backwards, it is surely legal. I must mention this, since somebody wrote that the author of that converter should be liable for cash losses of software developers. A.K.
E-Copy 3 (was: Re: SimCoupe protected disks)
Where can I get E-Copy 3? Aley [eili] Keprt - student, programmer (multimedia soft. etc.) phone: +420-68-538 70 35 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** http://get.to/aley From: Aley Keprt [EMAIL PROTECTED] Can anyone recommend any demos or games that have use fairly non-standard disk formats? I can only recommend not to do this! If soomeone made a protection, he probably wanted us not to copy these diskettes. I'm affraid about copyright laws. But if you already own the software that has the protection on it, surely it's legal? (by the way, that was rhetorical - it is very much legal) In addition, it is very problematic to use nonstandard formats under Win32. Also, some features of Sam's drive are not compatible with pc's drive. it simply cannot handle sectors other than 4 statndard sizes. Since Sam can physically hanle much more sector sizes, it is almost unpossible to use protected disks on pc. I don't believe that's the main problem; the VL1772-02 can only handle 4 sector sizes -- 128,256,512 and 1024 bytes. However, it can mix match sector sizes on one track, and also can spoof address blocks; so that is more problematic. A program written on a SAM should be able to copy these disks though. if we would copy these disks to an image, we would need a special software for the regular sam. this is another complication. Already got it - it's called E-Copy 3. -- minor modifications to dump to RAM/a PC disk/a specially formatted SAM disk would be easy. Simon Cooke (The views of this poster are his and his alone, and may or may not reflect the views of the Microsoft Corporation). ps. NSFMSFT == Not Speaking For MicroSoFT. [force of habit, I guess]
Parallax (Re: SimCoupe protected disks)
Best thing I ever heard was Mat of ESI telling me that it took him over 24 hours, non-stop coding, to crack the protection I wrote for Parallax. :) Simon (NSFMSFT) You both are happy people, since I have never seen Parallax. (I think my problem is, that I live neither in Britain (to buy the software easily), nor in Polland (to get illegal copies easily)). Maybe it is time to move... Some time ago one guy send me a new game for Sam Coupe in DSK file. As I saw, that was his own game, and it had a protection, so I saw only title screen. I asked him, what happened, and that guy said: Of course, there is a protection. I've sent it to you since you wrote you miss some new games. I really miss some new games, especially protected ones in DSK files :))) Aley [eili] Keprt - student, programmer (multimedia soft. etc.) phone: +420-68-538 70 35 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** http://get.to/aley
Re: E-Copy 3 (was: Re: SimCoupe protected disks)
Only from ME :) Chris - Original Message - From: Aley Keprt [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sent: 15 April 1999 15:07 Subject: E-Copy 3 (was: Re: SimCoupe protected disks) Where can I get E-Copy 3? Aley [eili] Keprt - student, programmer (multimedia soft. etc.) phone: +420-68-538 70 35 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** http://get.to/aley From: Aley Keprt [EMAIL PROTECTED] Can anyone recommend any demos or games that have use fairly non-standard disk formats? I can only recommend not to do this! If soomeone made a protection, he probably wanted us not to copy these diskettes. I'm affraid about copyright laws. But if you already own the software that has the protection on it, surely it's legal? (by the way, that was rhetorical - it is very much legal) In addition, it is very problematic to use nonstandard formats under Win32. Also, some features of Sam's drive are not compatible with pc's drive. it simply cannot handle sectors other than 4 statndard sizes. Since Sam can physically hanle much more sector sizes, it is almost unpossible to use protected disks on pc. I don't believe that's the main problem; the VL1772-02 can only handle 4 sector sizes -- 128,256,512 and 1024 bytes. However, it can mix match sector sizes on one track, and also can spoof address blocks; so that is more problematic. A program written on a SAM should be able to copy these disks though. if we would copy these disks to an image, we would need a special software for the regular sam. this is another complication. Already got it - it's called E-Copy 3. -- minor modifications to dump to RAM/a PC disk/a specially formatted SAM disk would be easy. Simon Cooke (The views of this poster are his and his alone, and may or may not reflect the views of the Microsoft Corporation). ps. NSFMSFT == Not Speaking For MicroSoFT. [force of habit, I guess]
Re: SimCoupe protected disks
You can use it on protected disks too. Chris White can use it to duplicate his own games :) It is still legal. Only if I own the right to copy it :) The problem of copying protected disks is not a problem of that converter. Converter is surely legal, you simply cannot create illegal copies of anything. (The same as monitor: To have a monitor is legal, but if you throw it on somebody's head and kill him, this is illegal, not monitor itself.) The only I want to say is that if somebody makes and distributes a program which will convert protected disks to disk image and backwards, it is surely legal. I must mention this, since somebody wrote that the author of that converter should be liable for cash losses of software developers. Will find the case for that in UK , A peep got prosicuted for making and transfering a program the Deprotected all Autodesk Software (Silly em for using the same protection in all their software) :) And you still not alloud a copy of E-Copy 3 , unless you publish MY software Chris
Re: Parallax (Re: SimCoupe protected disks)
At 3:15 pm +0100 15/4/99, Aley Keprt wrote: Best thing I ever heard was Mat of ESI telling me that it took him over 24 hours, non-stop coding, to crack the protection I wrote for Parallax. :) Simon (NSFMSFT) You both are happy people, since I have never seen Parallax. TBH I wouldn't lose sleep over missing Parallax... see http://carou.sel.cam.ac.uk/computers/secondopinion1.html#parallax :( Andrew -- | Andrew Collier | email [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Talk sense to a | Part 2 NatSci | http://carou.sel.cam.ac.uk/ | fool and he ++-+ calls you foolish | Selwyn College Student Computer Support Team | -- Euripides
Re: E-Copy 3 (was: Re: SimCoupe protected disks)
At 3:07 pm +0100 15/4/99, Aley Keprt wrote: Where can I get E-Copy 3? Sorry, I rather suspect you can't. Andrew -- | Andrew Collier | email [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Talk sense to a | Part 2 NatSci | http://carou.sel.cam.ac.uk/ | fool and he ++-+ calls you foolish | Selwyn College Student Computer Support Team | -- Euripides
WinNT (was: Re: SimCoupe protected disks)
I really don't understand why so perfect WinNT so stupidly hangs. and it doesn't even do it in style like the speccy sam back in those good old days you got flashing cubes of doom now its just black at least back then you *knew* something was up (..bahh, when i was a lad etc... etc..) Maybe we could make an coloured-boxes-on-hang-up emulator for PC... This could help us. This would be a hardware stuff. :))) Because you don't believe in it strongly enough. :) It's only the display that hangs - the kernel will be going on quite happily :-) How can you be that sure kernel is still going? If everything is dead, kernel is dead too (I think). I suggest you get some new display drivers. bullfrog suggested i did that so 'populous 2' would work... on a *new* computer i did... it killed my computer... I have the same problems on several computers in the school. And be sure, we have many different hardware configurations here. moral of the story? dont buy good computers... And what are good ones? Are those hang-up friendly coputers good? Aley [eili] Keprt - student, programmer (multimedia soft. etc.) phone: +420-68-538 70 35 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** http://get.to/aley
Fred on the web (Re: SimCoupe protected disks)
If soomeone made a protection, he probably wanted us not to copy these diskettes. I'm affraid about copyright laws. You're afraid about copyright laws, but you advocated putting Fred issues online?! Yes, yes. But only legally! Why Fred couldn't be legally available on the net. If somebody wants to spread Fred illegaly, that isn't good. (Send illegal copies to my private e-mail. :))) This has an advantage, that nobody will see us. ;-))) Small hint: the authors of any programs still, as far as I know, own the copyright to any use other than the one on Fred. Si Cooke knows more about this than I do, but that's correct AIUI. Again: If Fred would be distributed in DSK form, it is still Fred magazine, and there is no violation of copyrights. The only problem I can see is to bring Fred publisher to put it on the web. Aley [eili] Keprt - student, programmer (multimedia soft. etc.) phone: +420-68-538 70 35 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** http://get.to/aley
RE: WinNT (was: Re: SimCoupe protected disks)
From: Aley Keprt [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Maybe we could make an coloured-boxes-on-hang-up emulator for PC... Heh.. cute! :) And what are good ones? Are those hang-up friendly coputers good? I'm getting to quite like this DEC AlphaServer sitting under my desk... I love the way it reboots itself after crapping up. At least I'm getting good at decoding the crash dumps - quite useful information, too. Oh, the joys of kernel subsystem development At least I have the power over people who insist on running stuff on my box! :) (Then again, it doesn't have Alpha WinNT on it) Jut.
Re: SimCoupe protected disks
Chris White wrote: Private Email me the Disk layout (What tracks are what) , just for my curiousity Coincidentally I'd just contacted Persona about buying a few software titles to play with (I've hardly got any games!) and Defender was one of them. Sounds like a good challenge for some point - it'll give me a chance to learn about SAM disk formats. }:- Perhaps reading 'real' SAM disks in emulation might be more trouble than it's worth??? I would certainly put quality sound emulation at the top of my wish list. True , but unless you can read the disk sound is usless Especially as most of the decent stuff probably comes with some sort of disk protection! Depends on where do you buy the software. (Polland) Have you ever seen a software from Polland with protection? If you buy a British soft in Polland, there is cracked by *** instead of disk protection. And if Mat makes E-Tracker or other soft, other Polland people fastly crack it and spread everywhere. In other words, people from Polland are mainly interested in good sound emulation. Other people are interested in good disk emulation. Si Aley [eili] Keprt - student, programmer (multimedia soft. etc.) phone: +420-68-538 70 35 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** http://get.to/aley
Sam Juggler (Re: SimCoupe protected disks)
At 4:37 pm +0100 8/4/99, Si Owen wrote: Don't some demos also use strange formats to allow more data to be packed onto disks, rather than to protect them. Anyone have any samples? The only full-disk demos I'm currently aware of are The Lyra 3 by ESI and the Juggler by Codigo. Both of them use the perfectly standard 2x80x10x512 format. Yes, Juggler seems to use standard disk format, but it doesn't work in emulator. Any idea? Does Lyra III work in emulator? Most recent games use their own formats. ISTR some old sam-users discussion about Legend Of Eschan, whose structure sounded quite imaginative. Andrew What means ISTR? Aley [eili] Keprt - student, programmer (multimedia soft. etc.) phone: +420-68-538 70 35 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** http://get.to/aley
RE: Sam Juggler (Re: SimCoupe protected disks)
Aley Keprt wrote: Yes, Juggler seems to use standard disk format, but it doesn't work in emulator. Any idea? Hmmm, mine gets right up to the point of showing the animation and just sits at a black screen. Is that the same as you (I presume so!). If I get time tomorrow I'll see if it's anything I can spot... Does Lyra III work in emulator? It does seem to to me, but looks like it's missing a border effect. Then again I've still not managed to transfer it back to a real floppy to use it on my SAM! Si
Re: E-Copy 3 (was: Re: SimCoupe protected disks)
From: Chris White [EMAIL PROTECTED] Only from ME :) Chris And that's because all my source disks are still back home in the UK, taking up space in Martin Maria's loft.. Si
Re: SimCoupe protected disks
From: Chris White [EMAIL PROTECTED] No , but its on the USERS head if they have been neglect with there purchases, say you bought a book and you happened to spill coffee over it, you should be able to restore from you backup, but you wouldn't as you have insurence for this (I have) and this also includes (in my case) damage to computer media. If you don't take care of stuff why should you beable to get another free! Books are different... With a book, you are buying the media, and a license to read the material on it. That is a single-user license (unless people read over your shoulder) with certain caveats (fair-use photo-copying; which is no greater than 15% of the material, IIRC). However, you can't get a book store to swap a damaged book for a new one; the book costs money. Now, if you had scanned in all the pages of the book -- as long as you kept it for yourself and didn't distribute it -- you could legally print your own copy and replace your damaged one with that one (although you'd have to keep the damaged one if you were being incredibly strict about it). Basically, when it comes down to it, the spirit of the law is that you can make copies for your own personal use. And that's the important bit. Simon Cooke (The views of this poster are his and his alone, and may or may not reflect the views of the Microsoft Corporation).
RE: SimCoupe protected disks
Simon Cooke wrote: I checked out... you can't do it without writing your own kernel-mode driver :) I was hoping that FLOPPY.SYS would have support for COMMAND_READ_TRACK but it doesn't, as that may be all that's needed to read any Sam disk (well, it sounds like it in theory). I'll have a go at adding it, but it's a real pain doing any work with file system kernel-mode drivers as you need to reboot after every change. I built my own version and started it manually, but the drives are not visible :-( Another option is just to modify the drive media table table to add support for disks with 10 sectors per track, and rebuild the driver with a different name and with different symbolic links so it's seen as SAMA: SAMB: etc. That should give access to 10 sectors per track for all normal format Sam disks, which would be a start anyway! Not that many people want to read/write at that low a level, it would seem... Wimps ;-) Si
Re: SimCoupe protected disks
In E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Simon Cooke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:- Books are different... With a book, you are buying the media, and a license to read the material on it. That is a single-user license (unless people read over your shoulder) with certain caveats (fair-use photo-copying; which is no greater than 15% of the material, IIRC). Ok, fair enough... Now, if you had scanned in all the pages of the book -- as long as you kept it for yourself and didn't distribute it -- you could legally print your own copy and replace your damaged one with that one (although you'd have to keep the damaged one if you were being incredibly strict about it). Er, now, didn't you just contradict yourself...?! I thought we'd said in the single user license scenario that you couldn't make copies. __ James R Curry - [EMAIL PROTECTED] You're missing the point! The individual doesn't matter. It was a team effort, and I was the one who came up with the whole team idea...me! - Homer Simpson, The Simpsons. Please insert meaningless promise about The Official James R Curry web page here...
Re: SimCoupe protected disks
At 3:17 pm +0100 11/4/99, Chris White wrote: As for making a copy from a backup this is not alloud , you must restore the original only , and if you have a damage original you no longer have a full working original? Pardon? Modifiying the program may be against the owner's wishes, but it is not against the owner's rights. The owner doesn't *have* those rights, because they cannot be upheld by UK law. Correct , but my rights as a copyright holder of product are still being violated as my consent has not been givin. All I have consented to is peeps may use with intended target platform! Hmmm, you say Correct and then flatly contradict what I just wrote. Why? Surely I can't violate a right you haven't got. You haven't got the right, under UK law, to stop me from modifying your code. So even if I do, I can't be violating any of your rights. The plain fact is, that this is what the law in the UK currently says. You think the law is wrong, and maybe it is. Maybe it should be changed. Lobby your MP. but we will have to aggree to disagree on this. Alright, we've already spent a lot of bandwidth here. Andrew -- | Andrew Collier | email [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Talk sense to a | Part 2 NatSci | http://carou.sel.cam.ac.uk/ | fool and he ++-+ calls you foolish | Selwyn College Student Computer Support Team | -- Euripides
Re: CLOSING ARGUEEMENT ON - SimCoupe protected disks Copyright
Sharp intake of breath Look for a safer platform to write for Chris! Every kid around here has a 'chipped' station. But if someone had not reverse engineered the PSX , then these kid (That could not do it themselves) would not have a CHIPPED psx , but then things are not That bad , but they could be better @ the end of the day proceeds of cash you buy software go as follows 40% - Shop 10-20% - First Party (Nintendo,Sega,Sony etc.) 5% - Distrubutor (From Publihser to Shop) 2% - Developer Sad, isnit? Yep , Chris
Re: CLOSING ARGUEEMENT ON - SimCoupe protected disks Copyright
From: Chris White [EMAIL PROTECTED] As a developer of software , which a present is costing over £250,000 to write a product for 18months on PSX , and will have to sell over 80,000 copies to break even (Not taking into account the advertisment campain which usuall come in at another £500,000 ) , any form of BACKING up is going to cost me loads , and I decline to authorize ANYONE to make a COPY of my software. Speaking as another software dev guy, I agree totally... EXCEPT in the case of magnetic media, which needs to be backed up by the end user -- but piracy should still be illegal. CD's are much more durable, and as such, don't have this limitation. Also: OIDS on the ST. Mirrorsoft went bust. No backup copy. Bugger. No Oids. Simon (NSFMSFT)
RE: CLOSING ARGUEEMENT ON - SimCoupe protected disks Copyright
Simon Cooke wrote: CD's are much more durable, and as such, don't have this limitation. Doesn't the surface still oxidize over time though? (or was that just the early disks that weren't sealed so well). Even so they still last longer than floppies! Also: OIDS on the ST. Mirrorsoft went bust. No backup copy. Bugger. No Oids. Would it be legal for you to download a disk image of it from the web, as you own the original disk? Or would the person that uploaded it be breaking the law for effectively distributing it? Or if you knew someone that owned it, could you reformat your disk and make a copy of theirs? Maybe I shouldn't have started all this! ;) Si
Re: SimCoupe protected disks
Thought for the day: OffSubject (stolen from someone without there consent OOPS) I'll sue! I'll sue! Where do you keep getting these signtures from? And can anyone point me towards a VAST quantity of them The TFTD ones came with pegasus mail; the ones which don't start like that I've picked up from various places. When I can be bothered, I'll write a small program to convert between the format everything else uses and the one pmail uses (sigh). I can't point you at a vast quantity of them, but if you search the web for cookies then (assuming you don't get inundated by cookery sites) you should find quite a lot. :-) I'll send you the ones I've got, if you want..? Paul -- Someday a programmer who ignored compiler warnings without understanding them will be arrested for negligent homicide. That will be a good day. -- Szu-Wen Huang on comp.lang.c
Re: CLOSING ARGUEEMENT ON - SimCoupe protected disks Copyright
At 12:30 pm +0100 10/4/99, Chris White wrote: My wish is the a Sam Emu is a COMPLETE emulation right down to Floppy Drive Access, but what i don't want is it to create or beable to create IMAGES of disks that can then be transfered with out any problems or work as free as anyone would want to. For the record, I agree with this. So by one act of so called *NON ILLEGAL* (still looking for confirmationon this) act of deprotecting software and/or Hardware , one as made the other 99% of population capable of *PIRACY* , which is Illegal. This will only be true if the deprotected version is distributed to the other 99% of the population, and this would in itself be illegal. any form of BACKING up is going to cost me loads I dispute this. Copying can only ever cost you money if it stops someone from buying the game. The distinction between piracy and backups is that anyone copying the game to make a backup has ALREADY bought the game, so you lose nothing (unless you were expecting this paid customer to pay again[1]). Wheras anyone copying the game who has not already bought it is NOT making a backup, they are pirating the game. BACKUPs will not cost you money, unless you are counting money from individual persons buying multiple copies of exactly the same game. Making a backup is not illegal in the UK. Making a backup is not piracy. PIRACY will cost you money. I accept that. I don't advocate piracy. Piracy is illegal in the UK. Piracy is not making a backup. and I decline to authorize ANYONE to make a COPY of my software. Sorry, but in the UK, they don't need your authorization. Not that I'm suggesting that you should make your games easy to copy - this would just encourage illegal copying ie piracy. But don't think that copying is never legal. Andrew [1] I can think of only one circumstance in which this is a reasonable expectation. That is, if a customer sells his original copy - he must destroy any backups he may have made otherwise this is piracy. If he wants to play the game afterwards, he'll need to buy another one. -- | Andrew Collier | email [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Talk sense to a | Part 2 NatSci | http://carou.sel.cam.ac.uk/ | fool and he ++-+ calls you foolish | Selwyn College Student Computer Support Team | -- Euripides
Re: SimCoupe protected disks
Accidenally scratching a CD is neglect on USERS part, Yes of course it is. That's why the company won't give you a free replacement. So either you shell out for a second copy of the same game, or you restore it from the backup you'd made. Note - this is not piracy. You already own a copy of that game. You have paid for a copy of that game. Restoring your own copy of of that game from your own backup of your own copy of that game, is not taking money from the software producers (unless they actively account for people paying twice, which is probably a very good way to irritate their customers). Are you seriously trying to tell me it is my moral or legal responsibility to pay twice for the same game? No , but its on the USERS head if they have been neglect with there purchases, say you bought a book and you happened to spill coffee over it, you should be able to restore from you backup, but you wouldn't as you have insurence for this (I have) and this also includes (in my case) damage to computer media. If you don't take care of stuff why should you beable to get another free! As for making a copy from a backup this is not alloud , you must restore the original only , and if you have a damage original you no longer have a full working original? Modifiying the program may be against the owner's wishes, but it is not against the owner's rights. The owner doesn't *have* those rights, because they cannot be upheld by UK law. Correct , but my rights as a copyright holder of product are still being violated as my consent has not been givin. All I have consented to is peeps may use with intended target platform! but we will have to aggree to disagree on this. Chris
Re: SimCoupe protected disks
I can't point you at a vast quantity of them, but if you search the web for cookies then (assuming you don't get inundated by cookery sites) you should find quite a lot. :-) I'll send you the ones I've got, if you want..? Please do , and don't forget to mail Me and not the nvg
Re: SimCoupe protected disks
From: Darren [EMAIL PROTECTED] And just remind me how long it took to crack lemmings :) BTW - Don't forget that Defender is only £7.50 - together with two incredible other games! Wee I kind of cheated on that. I just rewrote E-Copy 1 (the one that was specifically written to copy Parallax for Colin) so that it could understand the Lemmings format (which was based on one I came up with -- though I can't remember if I told Chris about it, or if he came up with it on his own). :) So, not so much cracked, as copied :) But it only took me 10 minutes or so :) Simon Cooke (The views of this poster are his and his alone, and may or may not reflect the views of the Microsoft Corporation).
Re: SimCoupe protected disks
open the box of Windows Nt 4.0 to read the EULA , at which point it tells you that once you have opened this package you have aggreed to said EULA. Which was found invalid by at least one court, because you could not read what you agreed to before (implicitly) agreeing with it. Next? :-) Paul -- Why does the world turn? How can I stop it? -- Answers to a Few Common Questions, SCOhelp.
Re: SimCoupe protected disks
- Original Message - From: Paul Walker [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sent: 09 April 1999 20:05 Subject: Re: SimCoupe protected disks open the box of Windows Nt 4.0 to read the EULA , at which point it tells you that once you have opened this package you have aggreed to said EULA. Which was found invalid by at least one court, because you could not read what you agreed to before (implicitly) agreeing with it. Next? :-) But I think i mentioned that the Software was in another sealed package (Disks in brown envolope , Cd in Celo Case). But that just being picky , my point is that unless you AGREE to MOST software nowadays , you should not be using it. And if the Copyright owner says DON'T BACKUP/COPY my stuff then don't , else you have just violated his/her rights , and as a USER you are not the OWNER! Take Nintendo they state on the back or their Boxes that their N64 Games should only be used in Cartridge for and inConjunction with a N64 , and no BACKUP may be made? But agreed that there have been loads of test cases on Copyright and the right to protect your purchases , but then we should all be making copies of our clothes (These do ware out / malfunction from time to time ) , Make copies of our hardware ( these do break down from time to time ) . But no we will not because it would take 2 long , but then again because it easy to do then it must be legal !. Or maybe someone out there wants you all to think its legal?? , Take Atari for instance , they stood by and watch every computer/console manufactor use the following with out any inclin of compaint - 1) 9 Pin DWay 2) Hardware Scrolling 3) Hardware Sprites and a few others i can't remeber And then all of a sudon sued , Sega ,Nintendo , and a few others for violating there Copyrighted Designs and therorys , ( Mr Sam Travil brain waves ? ) and they one 10+ years after the fact . In the end Sega bought loads of Atari stock to get them to back down? My point is don't do what you think might be right , only do what you now is right! Chris
Re: SimCoupe protected disks
From: Paul Walker [EMAIL PROTECTED] open the box of Windows Nt 4.0 to read the EULA , at which point it tells you that once you have opened this package you have aggreed to said EULA. Which was found invalid by at least one court, because you could not read what you agreed to before (implicitly) agreeing with it. Next? :-) Chris is right; the EULA is in the box, and the software is sealed IN ANOTHER PACKAGE in the box, and it's this package that the EULA refers to. Don't believe everything you read at /. -- namely because 99% of the posters seem to be a pack of morons. Simon Cooke (The views of this poster are his and his alone, and may or may not reflect the views of the Microsoft Corporation).
