Re: [Scid-users] Takeover denied - Let us move forward
Hi Pascal, it´s a pity that no friendly resolution of a useless conflict is possible. That obviously can´t be helped for the moment. Sometimes minds just don´t fit, even bright ones. But it will be hard to prevent _anybody_ from using your code if you stick to GPL. And if you go away from GPL I guess you´ll have a nice version of scid[-ng] (whatever, I don´t care) and chessdb will have a community. Think about it and enjoy true freedom! Thanks to both of you for reviving scid! Because alive it is! Detlef On Wed, 14 Feb 2007 08:42:55 +0100 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Selon Dr. David Kirkby [EMAIL PROTECTED]: As you are aware Pascal submitted an application to gain control of Scid. Gain control would mean I wanted to steal (or something like that) Scid. That was far from being my intention. I wish someone else had done it. Kirkby can be glad, he nearly achieved to kill Scid at SF, but be sure it will live somewhere else, under the same name. So I will switch naming of my releases from scid-pg to scid as I have the right to. As chessDB is a fork of Scid (2004), and until anybody else is better placed than me to continue Scid, I request things to be strictly separated : given Kirkby's attitude, I hope he'll be honest enough to continue his fork in a strict separated way than mine : I deny him the right to use my own code, as I'll never use his own code (I never heard of a forking project whose that was in conflict with the mainline take code from the original). So few was done on chessDB that people requested a port of my features to chessDB. I never had any request to port things done in chessDB to my releases. That's a sign. I find interesting someone that is a true beginner in Tcl/TK programming (see his posting in newsgroups), and know nothing about Scid's internal denying someone that has been coding for Scid since 2003 the right to continue this project on sourceforge. So here is the status of Scid at SF : - author unavailable; - admins take 1 month to answer a mail; - files are nearly 3 years old. And someone is happy with that ! There are enough hosting sites for development (CVS, etc) to avoid the use of SF and have a naming conflict. So there will be a Scid ended in 2004 at SF and a Scid updated in 2007 somewhere else : sensible isn't it ? http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detailaid=1658454group_id=1atid=21 and have received this back: I have marked the takeover request as denied (at least for now), and mentioned both the sub-problems in the project's description. (I think he means sub-projects). Looking carefully one sees Scid's description http://sourceforge.net/projects/scid/ has now been changed to: Scid is a chess database application (cross-platform, for Unix/Linux and Windows) with many search and database maintenance features. Two related projects you may find interesting: . http://prolinux.free.fr/scid/ . http://chessdb.sourceforge.net/; I would like to see something on the Scid homepage http://scid.sourceforge.net/ as the text on the summary page is small. But it is progress at least. I was going to ask nicely if Sourceforge staff would add the following to the Scid homepage, it is OK with others (including Pascal of course) Does Michal have access and feel comfortable about making such a change? That would be better. Anyway, this is what I was thinking of proposing. ___ ___- *** News - February 2007 *** Although there have not been any recent versions of Scid released by Shane, admiration for Shane's work is very high. Two groups have developed Scid further. These projects can be found at link to ChessDB and link to Scid-pg (Neither developer has the slightest objection if Shane wishes to remove this comment). _ _ Note 1) I make no reference to forks, since whether you believe Scid-pg and/or ChessDB are a fork depends on ones view and a small addition to a web site is mot a good place to debate that one. 2) There should be no reference to specific changes, as those would soon be outdated. 3) I feel it needs to be short and sweet - just let people know of ChessDB's and Scid-pg's existence and let them find out what they want. 4) We should make it clear we don't mind Shane removing it. 5) I'm open to a better wording. I suspect if something could be agreed on between myself and Pascal, and others feel it is reasonable too, we might be able to get Sourceforge staff to make the change. Or if someone here is able to do it, all the better, - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly
Re: [Scid-users] Takeover denied - Let us move forward
What D kirkby wrote at SF is worth reading :-) Strange he does not mention all of it here. Here is my answer : Hi, There are some lies in D Kirkby objections : - on Scid-users mailing lists some people said I was the better placed for a take over and a take over is better than letting the project die (and he says that people have *all* objected to this, just taking 3 answers into account !); - I see on point 3 that D Kirkby would also like to take over Scid : if he wants to, let him do it ! If anybody knowing well Scid code wants to continue the project : let him do it ! - he states that the website was updated less than a year ago, he omits to say that no change has been done to Scid code since 2004, and the author of Scid has not done any maintenance on Scid for a couple of years, and is unreachable. Here is the status of Scid at SF : - Downloadable files are from 2004; - Current admins take one month to answer mail and don't really maintain things (lack of time I guess); - Author of Scid in strictly unreachable, and only apperead a few days in the last couple of years. I see that D Kirkby is afraid that is own fork is flagged as inappropriate, and is afraid that someone can continue Scid, making is own project strictly useless. Please, don't let Scid project die. Don't let others, ill-advised persons, kill it, restricting others from continuing it. Selon Dr. David Kirkby [EMAIL PROTECTED]: As you are aware Pascal submitted an application to gain control of Scid. I objected to this to Sourceforge: http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detailaid=1658454group_id=1atid=21 and have received this back: I have marked the takeover request as denied (at least for now), and mentioned both the sub-problems in the project's description. (I think he means sub-projects). Looking carefully one sees Scid's description http://sourceforge.net/projects/scid/ has now been changed to: Scid is a chess database application (cross-platform, for Unix/Linux and Windows) with many search and database maintenance features. Two related projects you may find interesting: . http://prolinux.free.fr/scid/ . http://chessdb.sourceforge.net/; I would like to see something on the Scid homepage http://scid.sourceforge.net/ as the text on the summary page is small. But it is progress at least. I was going to ask nicely if Sourceforge staff would add the following to the Scid homepage, it is OK with others (including Pascal of course) Does Michal have access and feel comfortable about making such a change? That would be better. Anyway, this is what I was thinking of proposing. ___ ___- *** News - February 2007 *** Although there have not been any recent versions of Scid released by Shane, admiration for Shane's work is very high. Two groups have developed Scid further. These projects can be found at link to ChessDB and link to Scid-pg (Neither developer has the slightest objection if Shane wishes to remove this comment). _ _ Note 1) I make no reference to forks, since whether you believe Scid-pg and/or ChessDB are a fork depends on ones view and a small addition to a web site is mot a good place to debate that one. 2) There should be no reference to specific changes, as those would soon be outdated. 3) I feel it needs to be short and sweet - just let people know of ChessDB's and Scid-pg's existence and let them find out what they want. 4) We should make it clear we don't mind Shane removing it. 5) I'm open to a better wording. I suspect if something could be agreed on between myself and Pascal, and others feel it is reasonable too, we might be able to get Sourceforge staff to make the change. Or if someone here is able to do it, all the better, - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier. Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Scid-users mailing list Scid-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/scid-users - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Scid-users mailing list Scid-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/scid-users
Re: [Scid-users] Takeover denied - Let us move forward
So I will switch naming of my releases from scid-pg to scid as I have the right to. As chessDB is a fork of Scid (2004), and until anybody else is better placed than me to continue Scid, I request things to be strictly separated : given Kirkby's attitude, I hope he'll be honest enough to continue his fork in a strict separated way than mine : I deny him the right to use my own code, as I'll never use his own code (I never heard of a forking project whose that was in conflict with the mainline take code from the original). I don't think you can deny anybody to use your code in GPL project. If you like to do it, start your own database, not reuse somebody else GPL-ed code. The fact you don't use his code has nothing to do with it. -- Michal Rudolf - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Scid-users mailing list Scid-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/scid-users
Re: [Scid-users] Takeover denied - Let us move forward
You are 100 % about GPL, and I will of course stick with it. But understand my concern : Kirkby massively renamed Scid files and put (C) with his name on files he did not changed a single character. He made his best to prevent me from working on Scid despite many users would like me to continue my work. So, he's capable of taking my work, put his name on it, change all Scid tokens to chessDB and say look at the great work I did ! I try to stay as objective as possible here. Personaly my greatest reward would be Shane's coming back and accepting at least some of the enhancements I coded into Scid. Pascal Georges Michal Rudolf a écrit : So I will switch naming of my releases from scid-pg to scid as I have the right to. As chessDB is a fork of Scid (2004), and until anybody else is better placed than me to continue Scid, I request things to be strictly separated : given Kirkby's attitude, I hope he'll be honest enough to continue his fork in a strict separated way than mine : I deny him the right to use my own code, as I'll never use his own code (I never heard of a forking project whose that was in conflict with the mainline take code from the original). I don't think you can deny anybody to use your code in GPL project. If you like to do it, start your own database, not reuse somebody else GPL-ed code. The fact you don't use his code has nothing to do with it. - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Scid-users mailing list Scid-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/scid-users
Re: [Scid-users] Takeover denied - Let us move forward
Dr. David Kirkby wrote: whereas mine was in a file release on Sourceforge more than two weeks earlier on the 15th December 2007. Betting ahead of myself there. I mean 15th December 2006 of course. - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Scid-users mailing list Scid-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/scid-users
Re: [Scid-users] Takeover denied - Let us move forward
Selon Dr. David Kirkby [EMAIL PROTECTED]: In fact Pascal *does* use code I wrote - which I have no objection at all too. (The line below appears in the first ChessDB/tcl/end.tcl) Shane is NOT reponsible for bugs in ChessDB\n\n Shane is NOT reponsible for bugs in Scid\n\n Yes, I am ashamed. I started to work with you. Then went away. The sentence you quote belongs to a mail you sent to me and I copied/pasted it to my code. Remember, you told me it was important to remove any responsability from Shane in changes made by others, and to make it clear. And I agreed. That's why I copied/pasted those 8 words. Thank you very much for your contribution to Scid. Pascal Georges PS : Let's stop this BS ? Or continue for another round ? - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Scid-users mailing list Scid-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/scid-users
Re: [Scid-users] Takeover denied - Let us move forward
Dear Dr Kirkby, I am merely an user of Scid, and would like to ignore this daily mudslinging, if it had not turned into such a daily deluge. I am trying to take an impartial view. I know neither you or Pascal, and I do not follow the details of your history - I give my personal work more importance than that and I hope others on this forum do so to - but my reaction should give you some indication of how you are beginning to appear to others. I am sure your unintensional (sic) typos were reproduced by Pascal, who is not a native speaker of English. If that is the kind of stuff that he swiped from you, then Pascal please acknowledge David for all the spelling errors he has introduced. If you have no other lines of code that Pascal swiped from you, then kindly drop this matter, else Pascal should acknowledge you too. This forum is for Scid-users, and not for juvenile bickering over copyrights over typos. Regards, Aniket On 14/02/07, Dr. David Kirkby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Michal Rudolf wrote: So I will switch naming of my releases from scid-pg to scid as I have the right to. As chessDB is a fork of Scid (2004), and until anybody else is better placed than me to continue Scid, I request things to be strictly separated : given Kirkby's attitude, I hope he'll be honest enough to continue his fork in a strict separated way than mine : I deny him the right to use my own code, as I'll never use his own code (I never heard of a forking project whose that was in conflict with the mainline take code from the original). I don't think you can deny anybody to use your code in GPL project. If you like to do it, start your own database, not reuse somebody else GPL-ed code. That was my understanding too. The fact you don't use his code has nothing to do with it. In fact Pascal *does* use code I wrote - which I have no objection at all too. (If he, or anyone else can make good use of code I wrote under the GPL, I am happy for them to do so.) It's hard to see how the following line I wrote in ChessDB/tcl/end.tcl: append str Shane is NOT reponsible for bugs in ChessDB\n\n which had an unintensional spelling error, got turned into an almost identical line, with the same spelling error, the same word capitalised, in a file released by Pascal. Just put one above the other and the evidence is obvious. (The line below appears in the first ChessDB/tcl/end.tcl) append str Shane is NOT reponsible for bugs in ChessDB\n\n append str Shane is NOT reponsible for bugs in Scid\n\n The line above appears in in Pascal's first release (scid-3.6.1-pg.1.tgz) but was removed in his 19th release after I'd pointed this out to him. FWIW, the date/time of Pascal's first release on his web site http://prolinux.free.fr/scid/download/archives/ is 03-Jan-2007 12:05, whereas mine was in a file release on Sourceforge more than two weeks earlier on the 15th December 2007. All the best, David Kirkby - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Scid-users mailing list Scid-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/scid-users - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Scid-users mailing list Scid-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/scid-users
Re: [Scid-users] Takeover denied - Let us move forward
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Pascal Georges PS : Let's stop this BS ? Or continue for another round ? I think it should stop Pascal. I do not want another round. Just leave it there. Let us both shut about about this issue. All the best, David Kirkby - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Scid-users mailing list Scid-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/scid-users
Re: [Scid-users] On tactics ...
Michal Rudolf a écrit : It is easy to find some examples, but not that much. And PGNs with solutions are even more rare. This is because of this I had to find a workaround : even for the mate exercises I could not put the solution because it is far from unique. So I let an engine do the work online. - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Scid-users mailing list Scid-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/scid-users
Re: [Scid-users] New Scid version released
Well, it's the first time I here about it, but I have ideas (although I am really surprised because I did not call sc_epd in my changes : 'grep sc_epd tcl/tools/*' gives no result ... ) 1. Don't issue a make install, run scid from the compilation dir; 2. You have scid already installed, and there may be a conflict between the two : saved options are not the same, especially for engines configuration So : mv ~/.scid ~/.scid.bak (so you will keep your old config files if necessary) cd ~/scid_src (where you unpacked Scid source files) make clean ./configure make ./scid configure the engines in the engines dialog (the 3 that are bundled) and can be found in the scid_src/engines directory. Phalanx AND Crafty must be configured for playing tactical games, as you will play against Phalanx (see the manual on my site). Maybe I should have released pre-configured files like I did on Windows ... Another thing to try : uninstall Scid first : there may be a problem in PATH and my Scid collides with the installed one. Concerning binaries, I released none given the number of packaging format available and the number of distributions available (you use Debian, I use Suse : you see what I mean). I hope some others will do packages (hope so). Selon Stu Owen [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi, I tried downloading this version as I am particularly interested in the Blunder checking and Training. I couldn't find any linux binary packages (debian in particular in my case) so I downloaded the source and compiled it. I got no configure or make errors. But when I try some of the new features I quite a few errors: The blunder checker always reports an error along the lines of Invalid command: sc_epd has the following minor command . and then a big list If I try Tactical Training I get an error Phalanx or Crafty not found although I have crafty installed and it is found when running the Analysis tools. I've also had various spurious invalid expression errors pop up - for example syntax error in expression * 2: unexpected operator * in the Configure Tactics UI. I should add I only did a 'make', not a 'make install' as I didn't want to overwrite the version of scid supplied with my distribution. I believe there is a configure flag that can modify the install location to get round this, but I can't remember what it is. thanks, Stu On 2/13/07, pgeorges [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I released a new version at http://prolinux.free.fr/scid/ The main change is visible on the 2 last screenshots at http://prolinux.free.fr/scid/scid_newfeatures.html#annotate_blunders (a game is annotated using a selectable opening book : the analysis is of course more accurate and takes far less time on first moves). Otherwise I made some bug fixes and code rewrite for some that needed it (there is some Tcl code that sometimes looks like some Perl one ...). Pascal Georges - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier. Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Scid-users mailing list Scid-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/scid-users - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Scid-users mailing list Scid-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/scid-users - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Scid-users mailing list Scid-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/scid-users
Re: [Scid-users] Takeover denied - Let us move forward
Dear Dr Kirkby, I am, as I told you, mostly an user. Whatever small programs I write are for my personal research and it is of rarely of use to most people in the world and I would feel flattered if anyone would want to copy my miserable code, and other people's lack of originality is not a life and death matter for me. I mostly try to get my work done, and help others get their work done. My words are not original, you will find all of them in the dictionary, as Mark Twain pointed out. My code is rarely original. Most of the ideas I use can be found in Kernighan Richie or some such text. My thoughts are rarely original too. My research work is also not extremely original or remotely earth-shaking. I might delude myself into thinking that something that I do is very original because it draws praise from others because they have not seen anything like it before, but subconsciously I must have been reproducing something pre-existing that has inspired me. There is no point claiming credit for it, or fighting over it. Every combination I produce over the board has been inspired by all the tactics exercises I have worked through. In any case, nobody will care a damn about who the hell is this Aniket Basu, because I am on the wrong side of thirty and have no past, present or future as a chess player. And nobody gives a damn about some irrelevant game I play in my little chess club here (though that should not reduce my pleasure in playing). Please realize that to most of your users, those lines in some obscure parts of your code is irrelevant unless there's a bug-fix. Nobody is going to look it up, nobody is going to give you any credit. But if people know that you worked your ass off to produce something useful for them, as did Pascal, they will respect you for it. If getting credit is a priority, please take care to mention your name in the documentation, so that Pascal or anyone can duly acknowledge it - or not acknowledge, at their risk. Does Pascal have to reinvent your code? Or would it be more original or more efficient of him if he merely renamed parts of your code to hide his tracks? Is he going to make some profit from this that you would cause you some grudge? Does his work amount to plagiarism with major benefits that are undeserved? If not, please make your peace with Pascal. I am sure both of you are doing some work that is useful to all of us. And there seem to be fewer bugs in your code than there are typos in your emails so maybe you are better off writing code than bickering over who should get credit. You and Pascal might even make a good team, and you can easily acknowledge each other's contribution. Spare us users the agony of acting the referee over something that is not our headache. I am sure we would all be extremely appreciative if you could settle this nicely amongst yourselves - that would a rare, original effort, and you wouldn't mind other people imitating you afterwards also in not losing your peace over trivia. Sorry for the sermon, and thanks for reading, Regards, Aniket On 15/02/07, Dr. David Kirkby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Aniket Basu wrote: Dear Dr Kirkby, I am merely an user of Scid, and would like to ignore this daily mudslinging, if it had not turned into such a daily deluge. I am trying to take an impartial view. I know neither you or Pascal, and I do not follow the details of your history - I give my personal work more importance than that and I hope others on this forum do so to - but my reaction should give you some indication of how you are beginning to appear to others. I am sure your unintensional (sic) typos were reproduced by Pascal, who is not a native speaker of English. If that is the kind of stuff that he swiped from you, then Pascal please acknowledge David for all the spelling errors he has introduced. If you have no other lines of code that Pascal swiped from you, then kindly drop this matter, else Pascal should acknowledge you too. This forum is for Scid-users, and not for juvenile bickering over copyrights over typos. Regards, Aniket Hi, The copied code is *not* restricted to an odd line with a typo in it, new files I created and other files I modified, have all been copied. I've long since suspected quite large chunks were copied, but it was not until this evening I decided to look for a few, prompted by your email. Anyway, here are a few, which you can see if you compare his first release which you can get from his archives. http://prolinux.free.fr/scid/download/archives/scid-3.6.1-pg.1.tgz with files I committed to CVS before that date or files releases before his. 1) One really obvious example (although of zero use to him), is a file I committed to CVS called ChangeLog. http://chessdb.cvs.sourceforge.net/chessdb/chessdb/ChangeLog?revision=1.1view=markuppathrev=Version_3_6_4---18th-December-2006 His first release has that same file, but he renamed the file to
