Re: CS>Toxicity to fish
Good point A baby fish is at one time a single celled organism [?] On Mon, Aug 23, 2021 at 3:11 PM Max wrote: > The abstracts I read suggest that silver is toxic to fish embryos and > adult fish at relevant silver concentration levels. Nanoparticles appear > less toxic than ions. But the particles go everywhere, even the brain, and > release ions. A noted cause of mortality to adult fish is disruption of > sodium uptake in the gills. In embryos, free radical damage and DNA > damage cause distortions and dysfunction. > > If my goal is to kill microbes and fungi with silver, then I would want to > somehow maximize the toxicity to certain life forms and reduce toxicity to > a minimum for other life forms. Capping with herb extracts seems like one > promising approach. Limiting doses to periods of time might be wise. > > a concentration of 3 ug/cm2 killed all the fish in this study > > Silver nanospheres are cytotoxic and genotoxic to fish cells > https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20060603/ > > > Bianchini et al believe that > > 'Acute silver toxicity in aquatic animals is a function of sodium uptake > rate' > Adalto Bianchini > > "the key mechanism of acute silver toxicity consists of reduction in Na+ > uptake by blockade of gill Na+,K+-ATPase;" > > whereas Sayed et al find that the toxicity of silver nanoparticles in C. > gariepinus embryos is caused by oxidative stress and genotoxicity. The > embryos were distorted at the nanogram per liter level > > "Embryos were treated with (0, 25, 50, 75ng/L silver nanoparticles) in > water." > = > Gagne et al report a difference in toxic mechanisms between nanoparticle > and ions, with nanoparticle inducing lipid peroxidation, changes to genes > and inflammation and dissolved Ag involved oxidative stress and protein > stability > 'Toxicity of silver nanoparticles to rainbow trout: a toxicogenomic > approach' > == > Asharani et al report distorted and malfunctioning fish embryos in > > 'Toxicity of silver nanoparticles in zebrafish models' > > "A concentration-dependent increase in mortality and hatching delay was > observed in Ag-np treated embryos. Additionally, nanoparticle treatments > resulted in concentration-dependent toxicity, typified by phenotypes that > had abnormal body axes, twisted notochord, slow blood flow, pericardial > edema and cardiac arrhythmia." > > > > On 8/23/2021 10:27 AM, Max wrote: > > Thanks Ode > > So what is the toxic level of silver in water to fish? And the toxic > level in drinking water to humans? > > Thanks > > Max > On 8/23/2021 4:11 AM, Ode Coyote wrote: > > Fish rely on microbes to purify their water...kill the microbes...kill the > fish with toxic fish poop and urine water [it wasn't the silver that did it] > > >
Re: CS>Toxicity to fish
That is very true. Fish in an aquarium depend on the microorganisms in the filter to keep the water clean. Upsetting that balance can cause them all to die. On Mon, Aug 23, 2021 at 3:11 PM Max wrote: > The abstracts I read suggest that silver is toxic to fish embryos and > adult fish at relevant silver concentration levels. Nanoparticles appear > less toxic than ions. But the particles go everywhere, even the brain, and > release ions. A noted cause of mortality to adult fish is disruption of > sodium uptake in the gills. In embryos, free radical damage and DNA > damage cause distortions and dysfunction. > > If my goal is to kill microbes and fungi with silver, then I would want to > somehow maximize the toxicity to certain life forms and reduce toxicity to > a minimum for other life forms. Capping with herb extracts seems like one > promising approach. Limiting doses to periods of time might be wise. > > a concentration of 3 ug/cm2 killed all the fish in this study > > Silver nanospheres are cytotoxic and genotoxic to fish cells > https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20060603/ > > > Bianchini et al believe that > > 'Acute silver toxicity in aquatic animals is a function of sodium uptake > rate' > Adalto Bianchini > > "the key mechanism of acute silver toxicity consists of reduction in Na+ > uptake by blockade of gill Na+,K+-ATPase;" > > whereas Sayed et al find that the toxicity of silver nanoparticles in C. > gariepinus embryos is caused by oxidative stress and genotoxicity. The > embryos were distorted at the nanogram per liter level > > "Embryos were treated with (0, 25, 50, 75ng/L silver nanoparticles) in > water." > = > Gagne et al report a difference in toxic mechanisms between nanoparticle > and ions, with nanoparticle inducing lipid peroxidation, changes to genes > and inflammation and dissolved Ag involved oxidative stress and protein > stability > 'Toxicity of silver nanoparticles to rainbow trout: a toxicogenomic > approach' > == > Asharani et al report distorted and malfunctioning fish embryos in > > 'Toxicity of silver nanoparticles in zebrafish models' > > "A concentration-dependent increase in mortality and hatching delay was > observed in Ag-np treated embryos. Additionally, nanoparticle treatments > resulted in concentration-dependent toxicity, typified by phenotypes that > had abnormal body axes, twisted notochord, slow blood flow, pericardial > edema and cardiac arrhythmia." > > > > On 8/23/2021 10:27 AM, Max wrote: > > Thanks Ode > > So what is the toxic level of silver in water to fish? And the toxic > level in drinking water to humans? > > Thanks > > Max > On 8/23/2021 4:11 AM, Ode Coyote wrote: > > Fish rely on microbes to purify their water...kill the microbes...kill the > fish with toxic fish poop and urine water [it wasn't the silver that did it] > > >
Re: CS>Toxicity to fish
The abstracts I read suggest that silver is toxic to fish embryos and adult fish at relevant silver concentration levels. Nanoparticles appear less toxic than ions. But the particles go everywhere, even the brain, and release ions. A noted cause of mortality to adult fish is disruption of sodium uptake in the gills. In embryos, free radical damage and DNA damage cause distortions and dysfunction. If my goal is to kill microbes and fungi with silver, then I would want to somehow maximize the toxicity to certain life forms and reduce toxicity to a minimum for other life forms. Capping with herb extracts seems like one promising approach. Limiting doses to periods of time might be wise. a concentration of 3 ug/cm2 killed all the fish in this study Silver nanospheres are cytotoxic and genotoxic to fish cells https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20060603/ Bianchini et al believe that 'Acute silver toxicity in aquatic animals is a function of sodium uptake rate' Adalto Bianchini "the key mechanism of acute silver toxicity consists of reduction in Na+ uptake by blockade of gill Na+,K+-ATPase;" whereas Sayed et al find that the toxicity of silver nanoparticles in C. gariepinus embryos is caused by oxidative stress and genotoxicity. The embryos were distorted at the nanogram per liter level "Embryos were treated with (0, 25, 50, 75ng/L silver nanoparticles) in water." = Gagne et al report a difference in toxic mechanisms between nanoparticle and ions, with nanoparticle inducing lipid peroxidation, changes to genes and inflammation and dissolved Ag involved oxidative stress and protein stability 'Toxicity of silver nanoparticles to rainbow trout: a toxicogenomic approach' == Asharani et al report distorted and malfunctioning fish embryos in 'Toxicity of silver nanoparticles in zebrafish models' "A concentration-dependent increase in mortality and hatching delay was observed in Ag-np treated embryos. Additionally, nanoparticle treatments resulted in concentration-dependent toxicity, typified by phenotypes that had abnormal body axes, twisted notochord, slow blood flow, pericardial edema and cardiac arrhythmia." On 8/23/2021 10:27 AM, Max wrote: Thanks Ode So what is the toxic level of silver in water to fish? And the toxic level in drinking water to humans? Thanks Max On 8/23/2021 4:11 AM, Ode Coyote wrote: Fish rely on microbes to purify their water...kill the microbes...kill the fish with toxic fish poop and urine water [it wasn't the silver that did it]
