Re: [Simh] Extended SimH on BeagleBone controls real blinkenlight panels
Hi Mark, I made another page on retrocmp, were I publish the code of SimH with the REALCONS/BlinkenBone extension. I also added some documentation about the concepts behind, so the code should be easier to understand. See here: http://www.retrocmp.com/projects/blinkenbone/180-blinkenbone-as-approach-for-simh-device-visualisation I did only focus on the SimH side, the Java application is not (yet) included. All this was a fast hack, I apologize for any trouble. Joerg Am 11.04.2013 02:33, schrieb Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm: On Wednesday, April 10, 2013 at 1:56 PM, Jörg Hoppe wrote: Hi Mark, For me also a year has passed ... I'm quite busy at the moment, so I'll send you the code of SimH with REALCONS extension on weekend. (And I'd like to take a look into it too.) That will be fine. You surely found this doc about it: http://retrocmp.com/projects/blinkenbone/174-blinkenbone-simh- extended-with-realcons-panel-control Yes I did. Good general description, but not enough detail. The simhv381-j-hoppe.zip you downloaded just contains my stdio telnet change, it has nothing to do with the REALCONS extension. That's good. Thanks. - Mark ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] Extended SimH on BeagleBone controls real blinkenlight panels
Hi Mark, For me also a year has passed ... I'm quite busy at the moment, so I'll send you the code of SimH with REALCONS extension on weekend. (And I'd like to take a look into it too.) You surely found this doc about it: http://retrocmp.com/projects/blinkenbone/174-blinkenbone-simh-extended-with-realcons-panel-control The simhv381-j-hoppe.zip you downloaded just contains my stdio telnet change, it has nothing to do with the REALCONS extension. regards, Joerg Am 10.04.2013 22:22, schrieb Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm: Hi Jörg. Almost a year later I'm getting to this. I'm the current maintainer of simh. I'm wondering what changes you made to simh to support this functionality. I found your simhv381-j-hoppe.zip file. I'd like to review the details of the simh side of what you've done and possibly include those features in the next or a future release of the package. Meanwhile, I'd like your thoughts on extending your concept of the BlinkenBone to beyond the CPU front panel and to potentially include devices which are part of the simulated system and have panel/observable components also (i.e. Tape Drives, Disk Drives). Drive devices could show visible activity and/or provide a way for the panel operator to 'mount' or 'switch' drive contents (the equivalent of changing tapes and/or drive packs). Can I get the source to your modified simh? Don't try to merge it into any more recent version. I'd like to review the approach you've taken before any merge efforts are attempted. Thanks. - Mark On Wednesday, April 18, 2012 at 1:58 PM, Jörg Hoppe wrote: Hi, I just finished another Blinkenlight project: An extended SimH runs on a BeagleBone (credit card sized Linux platform) and controls real console panels of historical computers, or simulations of those panels. So the project is named BlinkenBone. First implementation is re-animation of a PDP-11/40 console (KY11-D), others will follow. See documentation here: www.retrocmp.com/projects/blinkenbone I think there are a few? a lot? other SimH-blinkenlight projects out there. Perhaps it is time to define the definitive SimH - Blinkenlight interface, so there's a standard for future work. My proposal is http://www.retrocmp.com/projects/blinkenbone/169-blinkenbone- architecture-overview If you like to build this too, we will support you ... but it won't be cheap. And code deployment isn't organized yet, contact me on demand. regards Joerg ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] Extended SimH on BeagleBone controls real blinkenlight panels
I've done also a blinkenlights implementation (output only) based on a (pretty simple) client-server model. My current physical implementation just emulates the data register of a PDP-11 console, and it works either via UDP packets, serial communication (with an arduino board) or against a GPIO connected set of LEDs (that one is not very stable because I phased it for the serial arduino version). Jordi Guillaumes i Pons Barcelona - Catalunya - Europa El 10/04/2013, a les 22:55, Jörg Hoppe j_ho...@t-online.de va escriure: Hi Mark, For me also a year has passed ... I'm quite busy at the moment, so I'll send you the code of SimH with REALCONS extension on weekend. (And I'd like to take a look into it too.) You surely found this doc about it: http://retrocmp.com/projects/blinkenbone/174-blinkenbone-simh-extended-with-realcons-panel-control The simhv381-j-hoppe.zip you downloaded just contains my stdio telnet change, it has nothing to do with the REALCONS extension. regards, Joerg Am 10.04.2013 22:22, schrieb Mark Pizzolato - Info Comm: Hi Jörg. Almost a year later I'm getting to this. I'm the current maintainer of simh. I'm wondering what changes you made to simh to support this functionality. I found your simhv381-j-hoppe.zip file. I'd like to review the details of the simh side of what you've done and possibly include those features in the next or a future release of the package. Meanwhile, I'd like your thoughts on extending your concept of the BlinkenBone to beyond the CPU front panel and to potentially include devices which are part of the simulated system and have panel/observable components also (i.e. Tape Drives, Disk Drives). Drive devices could show visible activity and/or provide a way for the panel operator to 'mount' or 'switch' drive contents (the equivalent of changing tapes and/or drive packs). Can I get the source to your modified simh? Don't try to merge it into any more recent version. I'd like to review the approach you've taken before any merge efforts are attempted. Thanks. - Mark On Wednesday, April 18, 2012 at 1:58 PM, Jörg Hoppe wrote: Hi, I just finished another Blinkenlight project: An extended SimH runs on a BeagleBone (credit card sized Linux platform) and controls real console panels of historical computers, or simulations of those panels. So the project is named BlinkenBone. First implementation is re-animation of a PDP-11/40 console (KY11-D), others will follow. See documentation here: www.retrocmp.com/projects/blinkenbone I think there are a few? a lot? other SimH-blinkenlight projects out there. Perhaps it is time to define the definitive SimH - Blinkenlight interface, so there's a standard for future work. My proposal is http://www.retrocmp.com/projects/blinkenbone/169-blinkenbone- architecture-overview If you like to build this too, we will support you ... but it won't be cheap. And code deployment isn't organized yet, contact me on demand. regards Joerg ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] Extended SimH on BeagleBone controls real blinkenlight panels
On Wednesday, April 10, 2013 at 1:56 PM, Jörg Hoppe wrote: Hi Mark, For me also a year has passed ... I'm quite busy at the moment, so I'll send you the code of SimH with REALCONS extension on weekend. (And I'd like to take a look into it too.) That will be fine. You surely found this doc about it: http://retrocmp.com/projects/blinkenbone/174-blinkenbone-simh- extended-with-realcons-panel-control Yes I did. Good general description, but not enough detail. The simhv381-j-hoppe.zip you downloaded just contains my stdio telnet change, it has nothing to do with the REALCONS extension. That's good. Thanks. - Mark ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] Extended SimH on BeagleBone controls real blinkenlight panels
On 20 Apr 2012, at 20:46, Nathan Cutler wrote: If I remember correctly, the SimH serial-port emulation relies on telnet. Awhile back I tried to attach a real VT420 to a SimH/VAX instance running OpenVMS 7.3, and as I found out it's not really the same as running a VT420 attached to a real VAX. To gain access to SimH using the VT420, one first has to get the VT420 connected to the host computer (running Linux in my case, so I used the computer's serial port and a serial console - getty). From there, one must telnet into the VAX, either using OpenVMS TCP/IP Services or using SimH's serial-port emulation. Im just talking about the system console. Im simulating an HP2100 system using simh and for this the system console is on the simh console. Consequently, if I attach to the host computer using serial and then run up the HP2100 system, the system console is on the serial port. All the user terminals via the multiplexer are indeed on telenet, for which a terminal server, or something similar, would be needed to give serial i/o, but an ASR33 system console would be possible. ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] Extended SimH on BeagleBone controls real blinkenlight panels
Im just talking about the system console. Im simulating an HP2100 system using simh and for this the system console is on the simh console. Consequently, if I attach to the host computer using serial and then run up the HP2100 system, the system console is on the serial port. OK, yes, VMS is no different than your HP2100 in this regard. I could get the VMS system console on the serial port using the tactic you describe. I prefer to keep the VMS console separate from my user session, though, so I leave the console in GUI window and use LAT to log in from the VT terminal. Talk about elegance and things just working - LAT is an example of superior DEC engineering. I share Eric's sentiments 100%. I'm sure I'm not the only one on this list who occasionally misses the good old days. It seems like everyone is gripped with a crazy idea that GUIs must be used for everything. I wonder how many billions of pick-a-random-currency have been wasted needlessly converting stable, tested, mature text-interface applications to unstable, untested, constantly-changing GUIs. ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] Extended SimH on BeagleBone controls real blinkenlight panels
Im just talking about the system console. Im simulating an HP2100 system using simh and for this the system console is on the simh console. Consequently, if I attach to the host computer using serial and then run up the HP2100 system, the system console is on the serial port. All the user terminals via the multiplexer are indeed on telenet, for which a terminal server, or something similar, would be needed to give serial i/o, but an ASR33 system console would be possible. A BeagleBone with our BlinkenCape serves well as serial-to-telnet converter. BlinkenCape has 4 serial ports, over which you can log in to Angstrom-Linux on the BeagleBone. So 1. You connect your historic equipment (VT100, ASR) to one of the 4 serial UARTs, 2. get the Linux prompt 3. connect to one of SimHs user terminal via telnet 4. then you have your serial device connected over a telnet tunnel to one of SimH's user serial ports Feeling is much the way a LAT server works. But you can access any simulated machine this way, not LAT serving PDP-11's and VAXes. You don't even need an BeagleBone for this: every PC with login over a serial port will do. For example, you can take the serial port on your desktop PC (if you still have one) and allow your Ubuntu to accept login sessions on it. Joerg ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] Extended SimH on BeagleBone controls real blinkenlight panels
4. then you have your serial device connected over a telnet tunnel to one of SimH's user serial ports This looks great in theory, but breaks down (a little) in practice. One example: back in the day, I was used to TYPE-ing a long file and using CTRL-S and CTRL-Q to stop and start the listing. When using the telnet tunnel, however, for some reason the CTRL-S doesn't make it to the VAX, so VMS doesn't know about it and merrily goes on sending data, causing the internal telnet buffer to overflow. As a result, when I hit CTRL-Q to resume the listing, I've lost data. (It's been awhile since I researched this, so this description may not be 100% accurate, but that's essentially what happened. The guys over on comp.os.vms helped me to troubleshoot the problem, so I refer the gentle reader to the comp.os.vms archives for more in-depth information on it.) There are other glitches using the telnet tunnel as well, all caused by, well, telnet. Don't get me wrong: it's great that it works at all and it definitely does provide a good approximation of the experience of working at a terminal hooked up directly to a VAX, but it's not the same. ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] Extended SimH on BeagleBone controls real blinkenlight panels
Why not go all the way and record video of each type of old hardware in action ? Obviously this makes no sense for blinkenlights, but it might be fun to watch tape drives spinning back and forth (a series of short sequences of video for each operation), or maybe someone opening up a disk pack and installing platters. Of course, this would require yet another interface from SIMH to the video playback system. It would remind me of those old movies where the computer rooms always had rows and rows of lights, and tapes running, together with the sounds of teletype printers spewing data out ... Now, if we could just skin our favorite terminal emulator with a VT-220 case around the window area, we'd be all set in our virtual retro-computing world ! Wait, did I mention using 3-D glasses ??? LOL !!! -Original Message- From: simh-boun...@trailing-edge.com [mailto:simh-boun...@trailing-edge.com] On Behalf Of dott.Piergiorgio d' Errico Sent: Thursday, 19 April 2012 12:24 PM To: simh@trailing-edge.com Subject: Re: [Simh] Extended SimH on BeagleBone controls real blinkenlight panels Il 19/04/2012 15:21, Bucher, Andreas (Andreas)** CTR ** ha scritto: Hi, I just finished another Blinkenlight project: An extended SimH runs on a BeagleBone (credit card sized Linux platform) and controls real console panels of historical computers, or simulations of those panels. So the project is named BlinkenBone. First implementation is re-animation of a PDP-11/40 console (KY11-D), others will follow. See documentation here: www.retrocmp.com/projects/blinkenbone I think there are a few? a lot? other SimH-blinkenlight projects out there. Perhaps it is time to define the definitive SimH - Blinkenlight interface, so there's a standard for future work. My proposal is http://www.retrocmp.com/projects/blinkenbone/169-blinkenbone-a rchitecture-overview If you like to build this too, we will support you ... but it won't be cheap. And code deployment isn't organized yet, contact me on demand. Hi, that's waaay cool ! Not really useful for practical computing, but absolutely mandatory for the genuine look-and-feel of some ancient big iron :-) I like your modular approach - it allows people NOT owning true hardware blinkenlights to replace them with some software simulated frontend instead ! Would be cool to have SIMH equipped with all kind of genuine virtual (or real, for the purists) designs of the systems it emulates ! Have a look for PINMAME, the pinball emulator software, and you know what I mean :-) (wll, yes, a pinball machine's main item IS the hardware you see, and the CPU is only some aid in behind, while our emulated data processing systems are vice-versa - but anyway ...) And - finally ... that's what I already suggested years ago (and only got startled looks): Equip SIMH with some standard interface to optionally drive real hardware components of the systems it emulates, like console panels and stuff. I even went as far as to suggest incorporating all other kind of events from inside the system beeing signalled out - this could be used to generate sound events as well ! Perhaps the startled looks came from people whose main interest is keeping running legacy software, an important thing in se, but driving real (reconstructed) hardware is equally important, if not for the recovering preservation of software source codes on DECtapes, tapes, removable platters c On the blinkenlighten project, I have indeed suggested (ands ends rejected...) that ex and de command accept (and outputs) binary digits and space, (e.g. de 000 100 111 ) whose IMVHO is not only a convenient means when dealing with old big iron software, but also a convenient protocol (being *both* human and machine readable/writable) for a blinkenlighten protocol. Seems that there's a consensus in starting working on graphics emulation after 3.9.0 release and the sort of retirement (If I have understand well...) of bob from the active development of SIMH. I reckon that my perspective (of Historian of technology and random hacking when the mood is in) differ from the other member of this fair ML, but it's my perspective (for the record my lack of frequent contribuition is because of the extreme dispersiveness in dealing with project (I suspect that my WIP list is in high 10s or low 100s, but I have never done a census of it...) Think about your DECbox emitting true 11/750 noises, perhaps with some TE16 tape in the background, hehe :-) So, you better go ahead and digitize not only the Front Panels, but also the sound of the remaining hardware that is alive, or sythesize the sound of dead hardware and have it proof-listened by the few people knowing the hardware that still are alive as well ... I'm deaf and not much interested in that ambient sound emulation idea, but ISTR to have pointed to bob in a PM the group whose mantain and keep running
Re: [Simh] Extended SimH on BeagleBone controls real blinkenlight panels
I want to suggest simulating the distinctive sound of an LA36 backspacing. But I think I'd turn it off 2 minutes later! ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] Extended SimH on BeagleBone controls real blinkenlight panels
I have a real yin to build something like this that uses USB or serial for comms and a software module that can be optionslly compiled into SimH to allow it to work on any system (perhaps via an extra device that can be configured in the SimH terminal) rather than spitting the console commands out. The key point is it should work on any machine with a USB port or better a Serial port (can be adaoted to USB) that can build SimH. Only issue is I have no programming experience outside PHP5, I'm awful at soldering and I'm no genius with making panes and stuff like that either. However my *dad* has offered to build the hardware for me if I can come up with a plan. I don't really know where to go from just the idea. Loads of people seem to have done it in various ways but they seem to be tailor made solutions. I'd like to make something generic and boxed so I can plug, configure in a suitably compiled SimH and go. Any guidance out there? -- Mark Benson http://markbenson.org/blog http://twitter.com/MDBenson ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] Extended SimH on BeagleBone controls real blinkenlight panels
Il 20/04/2012 14:39, Armistead, Jason ha scritto: Why not go all the way and record video of each type of old hardware in action ? Obviously this makes no sense for blinkenlights, but it might be fun to watch tape drives spinning back and forth (a series of short sequences of video for each operation), or maybe someone opening up a disk pack and installing platters. Of course, this would require yet another interface from SIMH to the video playback system. I guess that you will surely enjoy this YT link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WaYYNUCWMY But on your idea, honestly, seems to me that FMV video sequences are a tad overboard; we're discussing simulator design, not console RPGs design ! ;) Now, if we could just skin our favorite terminal emulator with a VT-220 case around the window area, we'd be all set in our virtual retro-computing world ! I use Linux and of course the gnome-terminal is rigorously green-on-black ;) and there's at least one proper font (that is, with slashed zero and five-star * char...) albeit I *really* dislike its name (Addolorata, whose in Italian means doleful/sad (woman) and I'm Italian) In this context, I guess you need a good window dressing, and I'm sure that there's more than enough tools in X environment for building yourself the window decoration(s) you link ;) Best regards from Italy, dott. Piergiorgio. ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] Extended SimH on BeagleBone controls real blinkenlight panels
Very off topic, but there is a old HP computer simulator called HP9800E which fully simulates in software the look, feel and sound of the HP98XX range of programmable calculators/computers. If you run it up it makes the fan noises and the printer noises and everything whilst flashing all thr right lights. If you use some of the peripherals, like the plotter or tape drive, it even makes plotter and tape drive noises. Very comprehensive. http://hp9800e.sourceforge.net/ Also, I have simh running on a SheevaPlug plug computer under Debian linux which provides a UART and USB for serial connections (it has no PC type console). I use a serail terminal emulator as the console, but If I had a Decwriter or a teleetype it would work. ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] Extended SimH on BeagleBone controls real blinkenlight panels
Hi, I just finished another Blinkenlight project: An extended SimH runs on a BeagleBone (credit card sized Linux platform) and controls real console panels of historical computers, or simulations of those panels. So the project is named BlinkenBone. First implementation is re-animation of a PDP-11/40 console (KY11-D), others will follow. See documentation here: www.retrocmp.com/projects/blinkenbone I think there are a few? a lot? other SimH-blinkenlight projects out there. Perhaps it is time to define the definitive SimH - Blinkenlight interface, so there's a standard for future work. My proposal is http://www.retrocmp.com/projects/blinkenbone/169-blinkenbone-a rchitecture-overview If you like to build this too, we will support you ... but it won't be cheap. And code deployment isn't organized yet, contact me on demand. Hi, that's waaay cool ! Not really useful for practical computing, but absolutely mandatory for the genuine look-and-feel of some ancient big iron :-) I like your modular approach - it allows people NOT owning true hardware blinkenlights to replace them with some software simulated frontend instead ! Would be cool to have SIMH equipped with all kind of genuine virtual (or real, for the purists) designs of the systems it emulates ! Have a look for PINMAME, the pinball emulator software, and you know what I mean :-) (wll, yes, a pinball machine's main item IS the hardware you see, and the CPU is only some aid in behind, while our emulated data processing systems are vice-versa - but anyway ...) And - finally ... that's what I already suggested years ago (and only got startled looks): Equip SIMH with some standard interface to optionally drive real hardware components of the systems it emulates, like console panels and stuff. I even went as far as to suggest incorporating all other kind of events from inside the system beeing signalled out - this could be used to generate sound events as well ! Think about your DECbox emitting true 11/750 noises, perhaps with some TE16 tape in the background, hehe :-) So, you better go ahead and digitize not only the Front Panels, but also the sound of the remaining hardware that is alive, or sythesize the sound of dead hardware and have it proof-listened by the few people knowing the hardware that still are alive as well ... And ... yes: This IS over-engineering ;-) Regards, Andreas ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
Re: [Simh] Extended SimH on BeagleBone controls real blinkenlight panels
Il 19/04/2012 15:21, Bucher, Andreas (Andreas)** CTR ** ha scritto: Hi, I just finished another Blinkenlight project: An extended SimH runs on a BeagleBone (credit card sized Linux platform) and controls real console panels of historical computers, or simulations of those panels. So the project is named BlinkenBone. First implementation is re-animation of a PDP-11/40 console (KY11-D), others will follow. See documentation here: www.retrocmp.com/projects/blinkenbone I think there are a few? a lot? other SimH-blinkenlight projects out there. Perhaps it is time to define the definitive SimH - Blinkenlight interface, so there's a standard for future work. My proposal is http://www.retrocmp.com/projects/blinkenbone/169-blinkenbone-a rchitecture-overview If you like to build this too, we will support you ... but it won't be cheap. And code deployment isn't organized yet, contact me on demand. Hi, that's waaay cool ! Not really useful for practical computing, but absolutely mandatory for the genuine look-and-feel of some ancient big iron :-) I like your modular approach - it allows people NOT owning true hardware blinkenlights to replace them with some software simulated frontend instead ! Would be cool to have SIMH equipped with all kind of genuine virtual (or real, for the purists) designs of the systems it emulates ! Have a look for PINMAME, the pinball emulator software, and you know what I mean :-) (wll, yes, a pinball machine's main item IS the hardware you see, and the CPU is only some aid in behind, while our emulated data processing systems are vice-versa - but anyway ...) And - finally ... that's what I already suggested years ago (and only got startled looks): Equip SIMH with some standard interface to optionally drive real hardware components of the systems it emulates, like console panels and stuff. I even went as far as to suggest incorporating all other kind of events from inside the system beeing signalled out - this could be used to generate sound events as well ! Perhaps the startled looks came from people whose main interest is keeping running legacy software, an important thing in se, but driving real (reconstructed) hardware is equally important, if not for the recovering preservation of software source codes on DECtapes, tapes, removable platters c On the blinkenlighten project, I have indeed suggested (ands ends rejected...) that ex and de command accept (and outputs) binary digits and space, (e.g. de 000 100 111 ) whose IMVHO is not only a convenient means when dealing with old big iron software, but also a convenient protocol (being *both* human and machine readable/writable) for a blinkenlighten protocol. Seems that there's a consensus in starting working on graphics emulation after 3.9.0 release and the sort of retirement (If I have understand well...) of bob from the active development of SIMH. I reckon that my perspective (of Historian of technology and random hacking when the mood is in) differ from the other member of this fair ML, but it's my perspective (for the record my lack of frequent contribuition is because of the extreme dispersiveness in dealing with project (I suspect that my WIP list is in high 10s or low 100s, but I have never done a census of it...) Think about your DECbox emitting true 11/750 noises, perhaps with some TE16 tape in the background, hehe :-) So, you better go ahead and digitize not only the Front Panels, but also the sound of the remaining hardware that is alive, or sythesize the sound of dead hardware and have it proof-listened by the few people knowing the hardware that still are alive as well ... I'm deaf and not much interested in that ambient sound emulation idea, but ISTR to have pointed to bob in a PM the group whose mantain and keep running the lone working LGP-30 (whose emulation, last time I checked, seems to have some issues) Best regards from Italy, hoping that my suggestion will be understand (looks like that lately I have some issues in writing understandable English) Dott. Piergiorgio. ___ Simh mailing list Simh@trailing-edge.com http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
