Re: [SLUG] 64-bit Karmic Koala or not?
Robert Collins writes: > On Fri, 2009-11-20 at 10:00 +0800, jam wrote: >> On Friday 20 November 2009 05:57:09 slug-requ...@slug.org.au wrote: > >> > otherwise, 32bit is better. >> Pray wax lyrical > > Memory footprint. For instance, bzr memory use under 32-bit builds of > python is less than half that of the same workload on 64-bit builds. This is true, and on most 64-bit platforms it makes a difference because their 32-bit ISA is reasonable. On AMD64 and i386, this mostly comes out in the wash in terms of performance: the gain of doubling the size of the register set outweighs the cost of extra memory use in almost every case. Also, memory is very, very cheap these days. :) Daniel -- ✣ Daniel Pittman✉ dan...@rimspace.net☎ +61 401 155 707 ♽ made with 100 percent post-consumer electrons -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] 64-bit Karmic Koala or not?
The lesson here may be not to use python :) Dean Robert Collins wrote: On Fri, 2009-11-20 at 10:00 +0800, jam wrote: On Friday 20 November 2009 05:57:09 slug-requ...@slug.org.au wrote: otherwise, 32bit is better. Pray wax lyrical Memory footprint. For instance, bzr memory use under 32-bit builds of python is less than half that of the same workload on 64-bit builds. -Rob -- http://fragfest.com.au -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] 64-bit Karmic Koala or not?
On Fri, 2009-11-20 at 10:00 +0800, jam wrote: > On Friday 20 November 2009 05:57:09 slug-requ...@slug.org.au wrote: > > otherwise, 32bit is better. > Pray wax lyrical Memory footprint. For instance, bzr memory use under 32-bit builds of python is less than half that of the same workload on 64-bit builds. -Rob signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Re: 64-bit Karmic Koala or not?
Richard Ibbotson wrote: On Friday 20 Nov 2009 01:06:44 Jake Anderson wrote: Watch out running a vacuum cleaner around inside a PC, they can make *loads* of static. After ten years without a hitch there shouldn't be a problem. Depends what you are standing on :) I did most of a degree in physics. For that I had to study surface effects on electric fields as part of it. Then there's the fact that static charge moves around different materials in different ways. I'm just saying I've seen it happen, and I've seen things like spraying a conformal coating onto a PCB cause enough of a charge to put the micro into programming mode. I've been servicing pc's for 8 years so I've come across a fair bit of dust and crap lol. I use a shaving cream brush (old style wooden handle, and some kind of animal hair) to clean out my PC's these days, You can actually get the layer of sticky dust off the heatsinks then, plain air doesn't actually remove that. That layer causes a buttload of thermal resistance as air seems to build up in a boundary layer over it rather than actually passing over the heatsink itself. On 1RU style cases with fin style heatsinks the best thing I've seen is a peice of paper folded up and pushed between and along the fins. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] 64-bit Karmic Koala or not?
jam wrote: performance differences are and it depends on what you are doing in particular things like video editing with lots of ram (or ltsp server) do much better with 64bit clean memory handling. For what it's worth, my disgusting-useless-never-buy-another Asus boots much faster since installing 64 bit. I don't notice the difference once it reboots though. 64 bit has done nothing to increase my keyboard performance. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] 64-bit Karmic Koala or not?
On Friday 20 November 2009 05:57:09 slug-requ...@slug.org.au wrote: > FWIW, the things that affect me using 64 bit on a given machine are: > more than 3GB of RAM or > need more than 2GB in a single process or > doing 64 bit math (nb this isn't strict, you can get at the opcode in > 32-bit installs, just requires effort) or > want to do 64 bit port testing/development > -> 64bit > > otherwise, 32bit is better. Pray wax lyrical > Some 64bit capable CPU's actually do 32-bit mode better than 64, and > vice-verca, but I don't recall which ones - and unless you're on the > performance edge it won't matter anyway. performance differences are and it depends on what you are doing in particular things like video editing with lots of ram (or ltsp server) do much better with 64bit clean memory handling. Sounds like intel talking about AMD :-) James -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] 64-bit Karmic Koala or not?
On Friday 20 November 2009 05:57:09 slug-requ...@slug.org.au wrote: > > 32bit is dead > > Not on subnotebooks. > > >> It'll have 4Gb RAM, which should be enough for my work needs. > > Which is a good enough reason to move to 64 bit. > > If you want to address more than 2GB of RAM in a single process reliably > (i.e. without using odd memory addressing tricks) then you'll want 64 > bit. If you only have 128MB of RAM total or something like that then > there's not much point. Actually Del the magic number is 960M not 2G James -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
[SLUG] Re: 64-bit Karmic Koala or not?
On Friday 20 Nov 2009 01:06:44 Jake Anderson wrote: > Watch out running a vacuum cleaner around inside a PC, they can > make *loads* of static. After ten years without a hitch there shouldn't be a problem. Depends what you are standing on :) I did most of a degree in physics. For that I had to study surface effects on electric fields as part of it. Then there's the fact that static charge moves around different materials in different ways. How do I know that ? Well, back in 1974 when I worked at a large industrial company in Sheffield known as Thos. W. Ward we had the original ICL business computer in the room above me where I worked. Cobol in its later stages was largely written here but other work was done in other places. At that time concepts like electric charge on a planetary body or a building were known about but not too well understood. We had large cabinets full of TTL packages. State of the art computing. 500 integrated circuit components per board. 50 or 100 boards per cabinet. I tried to explain to the R&D people who were working on it that every time there was a large bang that the cabinet blew up that it was the static charge on the building. I was told to f ***. We were working inside the original British Steel prefab steel building. I have been working with this kind of thing since I was eight years old. I understood this effect better than anyone else when I was fourteen years old. It was something like the 1980's before any University anywhere acknowledged that I was right. Even then the discovery was attributed to a Dr or Professor of something even though I knew about it back in the 70's. In the present day if someone asks me how to fix something I always say something like " 'It it wiv a 'ammer mate !". Works for me;) -- Richard -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Re: 64-bit Karmic Koala or not?
Richard Ibbotson wrote: I don't get any grinding noises from my SATA drive. It's quick enough. You could put 4Gb into it to future proof it a bit more. I don't like to lift the lid of a PC once I've built it. Except for once every six months I'll run a vacuum cleaner around the inside of it and check the CPU fans and PSU. Good idea to look at those. I used to build PCs and servers for IBM and Compaq. Watch out running a vacuum cleaner around inside a PC, they can make *loads* of static. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] 64-bit Karmic Koala or not?
FWIW, the things that affect me using 64 bit on a given machine are: more than 3GB of RAM or need more than 2GB in a single process or doing 64 bit math (nb this isn't strict, you can get at the opcode in 32-bit installs, just requires effort) or want to do 64 bit port testing/development -> 64bit otherwise, 32bit is better. Some 64bit capable CPU's actually do 32-bit mode better than 64, and vice-verca, but I don't recall which ones - and unless you're on the performance edge it won't matter anyway. -Rob signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] 64-bit Karmic Koala or not?
hi, On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 5:23 AM, Amos Shapira wrote: > Hi, > > I'm going to get a new desktop at work and was wondering whether it's > worth moving to 64-bit. > > It'll have 4Gb RAM, which should be enough for my work needs. > > Skype is an absolute must. > I use the system for mostly browsing/ssh/thunderbird (managing a few > dozens of remote CentOS 5 servers), I might want to have Windows in > VMware/kvm/whatever and maybe a private virtual CentOS for testing. > > I found links like: > http://blog.dipinkrishna.info/2009/10/how-to-install-skype-on-ubuntu-910.html > (installing skype) > and > http://technologycrowd.com/2009/11/01/installing-64-bit-flash-player-in-ubuntu-9-10-karmic-koala/ > (installing 64-bit flash) which look encouraging. > > What's the collective wisdom/experience on the list? Is it worth > moving to 64-bit or should I stay away? > > I'd also like to move my home desktop to 64 bit when I get around to > buy extra RAM (it's 2Gb now). running 64bit here for with 9.04 and 9.10, i use skype and flash with no issues. i'd say go for it. this is probably unlikely to be an issue anymore, but just in case - make sure your new work desktop's CPU supports KVM, some intel dual core duos don't. cheers justin -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] 64-bit Karmic Koala or not?
Amos Shapira wrote: Hi, I'm going to get a new desktop at work and was wondering whether it's worth moving to 64-bit. It'll have 4Gb RAM, which should be enough for my work needs. Skype is an absolute must. I use the system for mostly browsing/ssh/thunderbird (managing a few dozens of remote CentOS 5 servers), I might want to have Windows in VMware/kvm/whatever and maybe a private virtual CentOS for testing. I found links like: http://blog.dipinkrishna.info/2009/10/how-to-install-skype-on-ubuntu-910.html (installing skype) and http://technologycrowd.com/2009/11/01/installing-64-bit-flash-player-in-ubuntu-9-10-karmic-koala/ (installing 64-bit flash) which look encouraging. What's the collective wisdom/experience on the list? Is it worth moving to 64-bit or should I stay away? I'd also like to move my home desktop to 64 bit when I get around to buy extra RAM (it's 2Gb now). Thanks, --Amos I've been running 64 bit since 9.04 so I can use the same repos as my TV. (cache the updates) Seems to be fine in every day use now that flash is out for it. Haven't used skype much but as I recall it seemed to work ok. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
[SLUG] Silverstone LC16M
> On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 10:41:45AM +1100, Mike Andy wrote: > > > By the way what did you decide for with your IR Receiver John? > > I was going to buy a Silverstone LC10-E, but I now think I'll get an LC16M > which includes an IR receiver (unless the DVD drive bay in the LC16M > interferes with the video card, in which case I'll get the LC10-E and > worry about the IR receiver later). We have the LC16M sitting under our TV. It's a great big tank, but once it's in a display stand or whatever it's fine. Lots of room for disks, an LCD, IR and front-panel control if you need them (we use a wireless keyboard now)... the only disadvantage is that it adheres to the late-2000s blue LEDs fetish. Stupid blue LEDs. - Jeff -- linux.conf.au 2010: Wellington, NZhttp://www.lca2010.org.nz/ "Our 20th anniversary issue, we suspect, will be about the year of the Linux desktop." - Jon Corbet, LWN -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
[SLUG] Re: 64-bit Karmic Koala or not?
On Thursday 19 Nov 2009 11:21:28 Amos Shapira wrote: > The work desktop will come with an on-board Intel chip, which as > far as I followed should be supported using open-source drivers. > > Do you use Skype and Flash? Any issues with them? No. On Ubuntu which is the easiest to use with Flash and Skype... apt-get install flashplugin-installer skype You have to add this to /etc/apt/sources.list # Medibuntu deb http://packages.medibuntu.org/ karmic free non-free and then run 'apt-get update' > Yes, I'm sure 2Gb will be enough for 64 bit but until I start > installing amount of memory which requires 64 bit I'm not sure > what's the benefit (a little more speed? I just use it for > browsing, skype, email and ssh). I don't get any grinding noises from my SATA drive. It's quick enough. You could put 4Gb into it to future proof it a bit more. I don't like to lift the lid of a PC once I've built it. Except for once every six months I'll run a vacuum cleaner around the inside of it and check the CPU fans and PSU. Good idea to look at those. I used to build PCs and servers for IBM and Compaq. > Thanks for the input, much appreciated. Yes. -- Richard -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] 64-bit Karmic Koala or not?
2009/11/19 Richard Ibbotson : > On Thursday 19 Nov 2009 05:23:33 Amos Shapira wrote: >> I'm going to get a new desktop at work and was wondering whether >> it's worth moving to 64-bit. >> What's the collective wisdom/experience on the list? Is it worth >> moving to 64-bit or should I stay away? > > Works for me for the past two years with Ubuntu and Debian and > openSuSE. I use these because it's easy to install Nvidia drivers. The work desktop will come with an on-board Intel chip, which as far as I followed should be supported using open-source drivers. Do you use Skype and Flash? Any issues with them? > >> I'd also like to move my home desktop to 64 bit when I get around >> to buy extra RAM (it's 2Gb now). > > 2 Gb works fine. No need to upgrade. I'm running Gnome and KDE 4.3 > and AWN together on the same desktop. Yes, I'm sure 2Gb will be enough for 64 bit but until I start installing amount of memory which requires 64 bit I'm not sure what's the benefit (a little more speed? I just use it for browsing, skype, email and ssh). Thanks for the input, much appreciated. --Amos -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] MythTV hardware advice sought
On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 10:41:45AM +1100, Mike Andy wrote: > By the way what did you decide for with your IR Receiver John? I was going to buy a Silverstone LC10-E, but I now think I'll get an LC16M which includes an IR receiver (unless the DVD drive bay in the LC16M interferes with the video card, in which case I'll get the LC10-E and worry about the IR receiver later). John -- This is not something you'll hear me say twice, but Excel is your friend here. -- Peter Corlett -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] 64-bit Karmic Koala or not?
On Thursday 19 Nov 2009 05:23:33 Amos Shapira wrote: > I'm going to get a new desktop at work and was wondering whether > it's worth moving to 64-bit. > What's the collective wisdom/experience on the list? Is it worth > moving to 64-bit or should I stay away? Works for me for the past two years with Ubuntu and Debian and openSuSE. I use these because it's easy to install Nvidia drivers. > I'd also like to move my home desktop to 64 bit when I get around > to buy extra RAM (it's 2Gb now). 2 Gb works fine. No need to upgrade. I'm running Gnome and KDE 4.3 and AWN together on the same desktop. -- Richard www.sheflug.org.uk -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
