Re: [SLUG] FYI: Campaign of Mis-Information
On Tue, Feb 15, 2005 at 03:02:47PM +1100, Jeff Waugh wrote: quote who=Jeff Waugh This is probably better off on slug-chat, but given that you've raised it here: What exactly is objectionable in these articles? They seem entirely balanced, reasonable and well-informed to me. Quoting the big end of town when writing an article about a controversial topic is not exactly pandering to their desires. Summary of the couch potato article, by paragraph (media analysis is so much fun). I'm yet to find anything seriously objectionable. The article actually summarises our point of view on copyright issues very well, and right up front, which is unusual. [snip] * Comparison of analogue and digital tools, introduce digital convergence (23, 24) On Tue, Feb 15, 2005 at 04:24:20PM +1030, Glen Turner wrote: Except for But in a connected, digital world, the threat to copyright holders is far greater. Witness the downfall of the music industry in recent years. (The Australian record industry has lobbied against changing Australian copyright law). when the ARIA figures show no such thing. The ARIA figures show a decline in value, but no decline in sales volume. And the downfall of the music industry is largely their own doing anyway. URL: http://smh.com.au/news/Music/CD-retailers-advocate-nicensafe/2004/12/29/1103996608131.html# Anand PS: mainly added so that furture googlers can find this easily. -- linux.conf.au 2005 - http://lca2005.linux.org.au/ - Birthplace of Tux April 18th to 23rd - http://lca2005.linux.org.au/ - LINUX Canberra, Australia - http://lca2005.linux.org.au/ -Get bitten! -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] FYI: Campaign of Mis-Information
quote who=Anand Kumria And the downfall of the music industry is largely their own doing anyway. URL: http://smh.com.au/news/Music/CD-retailers-advocate-nicensafe/2004/12/29/1103996608131.html# Anand PS: mainly added so that furture googlers can find this easily. Note that this was not one of the articles linked in Craige's email. - Jeff -- linux.conf.au 2005: April 18th-23rdhttp://linux.conf.au/ Old timers will tell you what a pain unstable was during the new testament transition. - Jon Corbet on Debian's KJV packages -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] FYI: Campaign of Mis-Information
Anand Kumria wrote: And the downfall of the music industry is largely their own doing anyway. Well ya know, if there is to be a downfall to the music industry one would hope it would be as a result of their standard operating procedure of putting hype ahead of artistic merit. But hey, we've been waiting, what, 8 years, for the Napster and mp3.com and John Perry Barlows of the world to take us into a new era of non-hype based music. What did we get instead? The global karaoke contest that is Idol. Oh well, Trent -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
[SLUG] FYI: Campaign of Mis-Information
and watering down has commenced again in earnest in regards to the looming FTA agreement and changes that will be brought before parliament when the new Howard controlled senate sits in July. This time it is News Corp who've started by planting some fuzzy feel-good pieces in the Sydney Morning Herald (and possibly other locations) and they even go so far as to paint the bungling Phil Ruddock as the peoples champion. Have a read yourself here: http://www.smh.com.au/news/National/Copyright-laws-under-review/2005/02/14/1108229936338.html?oneclick=true http://www.smh.com.au/news/TV--Radio/Brave-new-world-for-a-couch-potato/2005/02/14/1108229927903.html Two in one day. There's a PR officer in News who's working their little heart out to make us feel better about our loss of freedoms. -- Cheers, Craige. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] FYI: Campaign of Mis-Information
quote who=Craige McWhirter http://www.smh.com.au/news/National/Copyright-laws-under-review/2005/02/14/1108229936338.html?oneclick=true http://www.smh.com.au/news/TV--Radio/Brave-new-world-for-a-couch-potato/2005/02/14/1108229927903.html Two in one day. There's a PR officer in News who's working their little heart out to make us feel better about our loss of freedoms. This is probably better off on slug-chat, but given that you've raised it here: What exactly is objectionable in these articles? They seem entirely balanced, reasonable and well-informed to me. Quoting the big end of town when writing an article about a controversial topic is not exactly pandering to their desires. - Jeff -- linux.conf.au 2005: April 18th-23rdhttp://linux.conf.au/ Women are too irrational to be crazed killers anyway. - Angus Lees -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] FYI: Campaign of Mis-Information
Craige McWhirter wrote: http://www.smh.com.au/news/National/Copyright-laws-under-review/2005/02/14/1108229936338.html?oneclick=true http://www.smh.com.au/news/TV--Radio/Brave-new-world-for-a-couch-potato/2005/02/14/1108229927903.html Anyone able to share a login for this stuff? Stupid New York Times wanna-bes. Trent -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] FYI: Campaign of Mis-Information
On Tue Feb 15, 2005 at 13:22:31 +1000, QuantumG wrote: Craige McWhirter wrote: http://www.smh.com.au/news/National/Copyright-laws-under-review/2005/02/14/1108229936338.html?oneclick=true http://www.smh.com.au/news/TV--Radio/Brave-new-world-for-a-couch-potato/2005/02/14/1108229927903.html Anyone able to share a login for this stuff? Stupid New York Times wanna-bes. www.bugmenot.com is great for that kind of thing. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] FYI: Campaign of Mis-Information
Benno wrote: www.bugmenot.com is great for that kind of thing. username: bug_menot password: bugmenot for anyone who wants it. Trent -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] FYI: Campaign of Mis-Information
I use the firefox plugin for bugmetnot, which adds right click form-filling power to your browser. http://roachfiend.com/archives/2005/02/07/bugmenot/ On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 13:41:35 +1000, QuantumG [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Benno wrote: www.bugmenot.com is great for that kind of thing. username: bug_menot password: bugmenot for anyone who wants it. Trent -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html -- Rob Sharp e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] w: quannum.co.uk j: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] FYI: Campaign of Mis-Information
quote who=Jeff Waugh This is probably better off on slug-chat, but given that you've raised it here: What exactly is objectionable in these articles? They seem entirely balanced, reasonable and well-informed to me. Quoting the big end of town when writing an article about a controversial topic is not exactly pandering to their desires. Summary of the couch potato article, by paragraph (media analysis is so much fun). I'm yet to find anything seriously objectionable. The article actually summarises our point of view on copyright issues very well, and right up front, which is unusual. * Accurate description of problems caused by our current copyright laws, and their application to common modern technology (1 2). * Accurate detail of the problem (fair use), plus further information about the DMCA based laws being introduced via the FTA (3 4). * Ruddock's opinion, which surprisingly gels with ours even though it ought to be common sense, on what the article describes as a threat to liberty (5-7). * Balancing these statements with questions about artist compensation (7-9) * Description of new technology, PVRs, and legal term, time-shifting (10 11) * Impact on stakeholder, Foxtel (12-17) * Impact on stakeholder, Panasonic (18) * Impact on stakeholder, Damian Ivereigh (19-22) * Comparison of analogue and digital tools, introduce digital convergence (23, 24) * Comments from expert source, Kim Weatherall (who is well known to anyone involved in the LA/FTA project and other digital rights issues), and some analysis (25-28) * Stakeholder (Foxtel) response to these issues (29) * Comments from expert source, Simon Lake, supporting evidence from Harvey Norman and Gfk (30-32) * Opposing/commingled views to fair use (33-38) from various sources Competition an obstacle for Foxtel * Introduction of technology vs. network infighting / pay TV issue, new product from Foxtel and crucial 'electronic program guide' issue (1,2) * Program guide only available for Nine, which reduces product functionality (3,4) * Seven and Ten not providing program guides, evidence of Foxtel and Nine relationship (5) * Evidence to suggest lower penetration of pay TV in Australia, with supporting expert evidence (6-8) - Jeff -- linux.conf.au 2005: April 18th-23rdhttp://linux.conf.au/ He'd never undressed a woman with his eyes. Perhaps army boots, school uniform, or a nightie, but never undressed. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] FYI: Campaign of Mis-Information
Jeff Waugh wrote: Summary of the couch potato article, by paragraph (media analysis is so much fun). I'm yet to find anything seriously objectionable. The article actually summarises our point of view on copyright issues very well, and right up front, which is unusual. Yes, this article is a lot better than the first one. I've emailed Charles Britton from the ACA to ask him if he actually did pledge his support for a two year jail sentence for bypassing the trivial encryption found on consumer media, as the SMH article claims. If I get a reply I'll post it on the list. Trent -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] FYI: Campaign of Mis-Information
I've heard back from Charles Britton of the ACA, that first article is definitely engaging in some old school propaganda techniques. It contains this text: --- Tough new laws will be introduced by 2007 as part of the US-Australia free-trade agreement. Anyone found guilty of unlocking an encrypted code that prevents multiple copies of a CD being made faces a two-year jail sentence. The Australian Consumers' Association welcomed the move but a spokesman, Charles Britton, said: We feel that if you pay to get access to something then you should be able to go back to it again. We would not want to see a fair-use right given by law only to be taken away by technology. --- which implies that the ACA welcomes the tough new laws when actually the ACA has only shown support for reform to copyright law to permit format changing and off-air recording. For reference, here's my email to Charles Britton and his reply. == Hi Trent Not a misquote, but missing context - the proposal we welcome is what Ruddock was talking about - an inquiry into consumer copying rights, sympathetic to format changing off-air recording etc. Certainly NOT happy about criminalisation of consumers as delivered by the recent FTA. Best regards Charles Britton QuantumG [EMAIL PROTECTED] 02/15 2:54 pm An online article in the Sydney Morning Herald, http://www.smh.com.au/news/National/Copyright-laws-under-review/2005/02/14/1108229936338.html?oneclick=true has this quote: Tough new laws will be introduced by 2007 as part of the US-Australia free-trade agreement. Anyone found guilty of unlocking an encrypted code that prevents multiple copies of a CD being made faces a two-year jail sentence. The Australian Consumers' Association welcomed the move but a spokesman, Charles Britton, said: We feel that if you pay to get access to something then you should be able to go back to it again. We would not want to see a fair-use right given by law only to be taken away by technology. I was wondering if that was actually correct? Did you say that the ACA supports a two-year jail sentence for bypassing the trivial encryption that is to be found on consumer media? Is this the official position of the ACA? Seems a bit silly doesn't it? Gee, what are you in for? Oh, I knocked over a petrol station, got 2 years, you? Yeah, I got two years too... for copying a CD. Trent Waddington -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] FYI: Campaign of Mis-Information
quote who=QuantumG I've heard back from Charles Britton of the ACA, that first article is definitely engaging in some old school propaganda techniques. Missing context for a quote can't be anything other than an old school propaganda technique? Sheesh... Take off your tin foil hats, guys. - Jeff -- linux.conf.au 2005: April 18th-23rdhttp://linux.conf.au/ Creative thinkers make many false starts, and continually waver between unmanageable fantasies and systematic attack. - Harry Hepner -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] FYI: Campaign of Mis-Information
On Tue, 2005-02-15 at 14:22, QuantumG wrote: Craige McWhirter wrote: http://www.smh.com.au/news/National/Copyright-laws-under-review/2005/02/14/1108229936338.html?oneclick=true http://www.smh.com.au/news/TV--Radio/Brave-new-world-for-a-couch-potato/2005/02/14/1108229927903.html Anyone able to share a login for this stuff? Stupid New York Times wanna-bes. Just kill off the cookies each time. Trent -- Howard. LANNet Computing Associates; Your Linux people http://www.lannetlinux.com -- When you just want a system that works, you choose Linux; when you want a system that just works, you choose Microsoft. -- Flatter government, not fatter government; Get rid of the Australian states. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] FYI: Campaign of Mis-Information
Jeff Waugh wrote: Missing context for a quote can't be anything other than an old school propaganda technique? Sheesh... Take off your tin foil hats, guys. Umm no. Did you read the article? The writer has deliberately gone to the effort of placing those two paragraphs together to imply that the ACA is supporting criminal prosecution for copyright infringement. Trent -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] FYI: Campaign of Mis-Information
Jeff Waugh wrote: The lack of context on welcomed the move does not change the entire nature of the article, or significantly impact on its message. I think the whole message of the first article (which is very different to the second article) is that all Australians are criminals when it comes to copyright law so don't complain when criminal copyright laws are introduced. Nevermind the fact that copying-stuff-off-tv has never been a criminal act. Trent -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] FYI: Campaign of Mis-Information
Jeff Waugh wrote: This is probably better off on slug-chat, but given that you've raised it here: What exactly is objectionable in these articles? They seem entirely balanced, reasonable and well-informed to me. Except for But in a connected, digital world, the threat to copyright holders is far greater. Witness the downfall of the music industry in recent years. (The Australian record industry has lobbied against changing Australian copyright law). when the ARIA figures show no such thing. The ARIA figures show a decline in value, but no decline in sales volume. Furthermore sales volumes and revenue for Australian artists has increased (thanks mainly to Delta Goodrem). All in all, the copyright parallel importation changes have worked better than could have been hoped, with the only losers being the record companies which import overseas product (as was the intent of the change, to stop the copyright-granted monopoly for importing overseas recordings from ripping off Australian consumers). -- Glen Turner Tel: (08) 8303 3936 or +61 8 8303 3936 Australia's Academic Research Network www.aarnet.edu.au -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] FYI: Campaign of Mis-Information
quote who=QuantumG I think the whole message of the first article (which is very different to the second article) is that all Australians are criminals when it comes to copyright law The article says decriminalise once, which I'd be happy to put down to hyperbole, given the rest. It correctly points out that recording from the TV and ripping a CD are not legal, which is *true*. Our copyright law doesn't allow for (private) fair use or time shifting (as US law does). so don't complain when criminal copyright laws are introduced. I can't see anything in the article that suggests this. In fact most of the article is about introducing fair use to offset our existing copyright law problems exacerbated by the FTA's DMCA laws. Nevermind the fact that copying-stuff-off-tv has never been a criminal act. Not criminal, but certainly not legal. - Jeff -- GUADEC 2005: May 29th-31st http://2005.guadec.org/ Learning and doing is the true spirit of free software -- learning without doing gets you academic sterility, and doing without learning is all too often the way things are done in proprietary software. - Raph Levien -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] FYI: Campaign of Mis-Information
quote who=Glen Turner Except for But in a connected, digital world, the threat to copyright holders is far greater. Witness the downfall of the music industry in recent years. (The Australian record industry has lobbied against changing Australian copyright law). Indeed. I think they should start blaming the radio stations. But then, they'd only be blaming themselves by proxy. ;-) - Jeff -- gnome.conf.au 2005: April 19th http://live.gnome.au/Canberra2005 You know, it's not that unusual, even in Hollywood, for brothers to work together. Heard of the Warner brothers? - Ethan Coen -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
