Re: [Soekris] Debian install on 4801, eth0 won't work.
I have run x-apps and even entire desktops on some very low power PCs before with Debian before. You don't need to install an x-server on the soekris. You just run the application and export the session over the network to an x-server running on a desktop machine. Normally I do this by installing freenx or nomachine server which makes it easy to tunnel the X session over ssh. I then run the nomachine client on my desktop to display the window or the desktop. Doing this you don't need to install an x-server at all on the soekris PC. regards, Philip Marco A. Calamari wrote: On Tue, 2010-02-23 at 12:07 -0500, Bob Camp wrote: Hi Not real sure that X would do a lot of good on a 4801 box Being able to make an rdesktop call to a small footprint wm make a lot of sense ... just install framebuffer and enjoy ... It was incredibly useful, at least for me ... FWIW. Marco ___ Soekris-tech mailing list Soekris-tech@lists.soekris.com http://lists.soekris.com/mailman/listinfo/soekris-tech ___ Soekris-tech mailing list Soekris-tech@lists.soekris.com http://lists.soekris.com/mailman/listinfo/soekris-tech
Re: [Soekris] Debian install on 4801, eth0 won't work.
On Tue, 2010-02-23 at 12:07 -0500, Bob Camp wrote: Hi Not real sure that X would do a lot of good on a 4801 box Being able to make an rdesktop call to a small footprint wm make a lot of sense ... just install framebuffer and enjoy ... It was incredibly useful, at least for me ... FWIW. Marco -- +--- http://www.winstonsmith.info ---+ | il Progetto Winston Smith: scolleghiamo il Grande Fratello | | the Winston Smith Project: unplug the Big Brother | | Marco A. Calamari mar...@marcoc.it http://www.marcoc.it | | DSS/DH: 8F3E 5BAE 906F B416 9242 1C10 8661 24A9 BFCE 822B | + PGP RSA: ED84 3839 6C4D 3FFE 389F 209E 3128 5698 --+ signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Soekris-tech mailing list Soekris-tech@lists.soekris.com http://lists.soekris.com/mailman/listinfo/soekris-tech
Re: [Soekris] Debian install on 4801, eth0 won't work.
Perhaps you're confusing X with insanely bloated modern desktop environments built atop X, like KDE and Gnome? (X is not a window system; it's a framework for building window systems. It's possible to build fairly lightweight window systems in X.) Well, well. That's X theory. X practice differs. Try to use a couple of modern scalable fonts across the network using an xlib application, and watch the network, CPU and RAM usage balloon. Sure. Use bloatware and you can expect bloatware levels of resource consumption. I would never claim it's impossible to build X-using programs that are excessively resource-hungry. I merely claim it's possible to do useful work under X without doing so - my own routine-use desktop setup at one of my jobs is a SPARCstation LX with 48M. /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B ___ Soekris-tech mailing list Soekris-tech@lists.soekris.com http://lists.soekris.com/mailman/listinfo/soekris-tech
Re: [Soekris] Debian install on 4801, eth0 won't work.
On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 08:33:04AM +0100, Jan Ceuleers wrote:
[...]
r...@skr03:~# df .
Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on
/dev/sda5 6973240870264 5748748 14% /
That's an Ubuntu Karmic server install (with manpages, Squid,
Apache, what have you). No X though.
[...]
Just finished another minimal Debian/Stable installation in a VM for
an unrelated project. It came in right at 300MB, though admittedly
its only acting as a recursive DNS resolver so there's not much else
installed on it. Nothing custom about it... just chose expert mode
and didn't select any of the roles tasksel asks about at the end.
--
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Re: [Soekris] Debian install on 4801, eth0 won't work.
Hi
Not real sure that X would do a lot of good on a 4801 box
Bob
-Original Message-
From: soekris-tech-boun...@lists.soekris.com
[mailto:soekris-tech-boun...@lists.soekris.com] On Behalf Of The Fungi
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 10:49 AM
To: soekris-tech@lists.soekris.com
Subject: Re: [Soekris] Debian install on 4801, eth0 won't work.
On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 08:33:04AM +0100, Jan Ceuleers wrote:
[...]
r...@skr03:~# df .
Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on
/dev/sda5 6973240870264 5748748 14% /
That's an Ubuntu Karmic server install (with manpages, Squid,
Apache, what have you). No X though.
[...]
Just finished another minimal Debian/Stable installation in a VM for
an unrelated project. It came in right at 300MB, though admittedly
its only acting as a recursive DNS resolver so there's not much else
installed on it. Nothing custom about it... just chose expert mode
and didn't select any of the roles tasksel asks about at the end.
--
{ IRL(Jeremy_Stanley); PGP(9E8DFF2E4F5995F8FEADDC5829ABF7441FB84657);
SMTP(fu...@yuggoth.org); IRC(fu...@irc.yuggoth.org#ccl); ICQ(114362511);
AIM(dreadazathoth); YAHOO(crawlingchaoslabs); FINGER(fu...@yuggoth.org);
MUD(fu...@katarsis.mudpy.org:6669); WWW(http://fungi.yuggoth.org/); }
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Re: [Soekris] Debian install on 4801, eth0 won't work.
Not real sure that X would do a lot of good on a 4801 box I don't see why not. It was useful on Sun-3s, which were significantly wimpier. Perhaps you're confusing X with insanely bloated modern desktop environments built atop X, like KDE and Gnome? (X is not a window system; it's a framework for building window systems. It's possible to build fairly lightweight window systems in X.) /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B ___ Soekris-tech mailing list Soekris-tech@lists.soekris.com http://lists.soekris.com/mailman/listinfo/soekris-tech
Re: [Soekris] Debian install on 4801, eth0 won't work.
On 02/23/2010 06:59 PM, der Mouse wrote: Not real sure that X would do a lot of good on a 4801 box I don't see why not. It was useful on Sun-3s, which were significantly wimpier. I got XFCE up and running on a Lifebook S-4572 a couple of weeks ago. The 4572 is comparable to the 4801 in terms of CPU and RAM. It started out swapping heavily just displaying the xdm, but I got it to the point where it allocated only about 160 megs for logging in. Perhaps you're confusing X with insanely bloated modern desktop environments built atop X, like KDE and Gnome? (X is not a window system; it's a framework for building window systems. It's possible to build fairly lightweight window systems in X.) Well, well. That's X theory. X practice differs. Try to use a couple of modern scalable fonts across the network using an xlib application, and watch the network, CPU and RAM usage balloon. If you restrict yourself to fonts that provide only ascii or 8859-1, if you stick to one font sizes and avoid italics or boldness, then fonts aren't a problem. If you can keep latency low, then xlib is bearable. And so on. But X has its mistakes and they add up. Arnt ___ Soekris-tech mailing list Soekris-tech@lists.soekris.com http://lists.soekris.com/mailman/listinfo/soekris-tech
Re: [Soekris] Debian install on 4801, eth0 won't work.
On Tue Feb 23 12:59 , der Mouse sent: Not real sure that X would do a lot of good on a 4801 box I don't see why not. It was useful on Sun-3s, which were significantly wimpier. Perhaps you're confusing X with insanely bloated modern desktop environments built atop X, like KDE and Gnome? (X is not a window system; it's a framework for building window systems. It's possible to build fairly lightweight window systems in X.) I don't think the X _server_ software would be of much use on a Seokris box, not because of horsepower, but because of lack of KVM. No reason you couldn't run X client software (e.g. xterm) though. Although it seems like HTTP[S] based interfaces are much more common these days. -Jed ___ Soekris-tech mailing list Soekris-tech@lists.soekris.com http://lists.soekris.com/mailman/listinfo/soekris-tech
Re: [Soekris] Debian install on 4801, eth0 won't work.
On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 12:56:16PM -0800, William Estrada wrote:
I wanted to install a small system image, so that is way I went the
Debootstrap route. The standard installs, Fedora, Ubuntu, etc. all seam
to install the world for you, like M$ does. My build was relatively
small ( 1/2 gig ).
[...]
Using Debian Installer's expert mode, you can get a fairly small
(a few hundred megabytes) essential+base install and then
cherry-pick what additional packages you want for your particular
use case.
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Re: [Soekris] Debian install on 4801, eth0 won't work.
William Estrada wrote: I wanted to install a small system image, so that is way I went the Debootstrap route. The standard installs, Fedora, Ubuntu, etc. all seam to install the world for you, like M$ does. My build was relatively small ( 1/2 gig ). r...@skr03:~# df . Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on /dev/sda5 6973240870264 5748748 14% / That's an Ubuntu Karmic server install (with manpages, Squid, Apache, what have you). No X though. The CF card is overdimensioned, but it's cheap and building a custom install is (to me) just not worth the maintenance hassle. Jan ___ Soekris-tech mailing list Soekris-tech@lists.soekris.com http://lists.soekris.com/mailman/listinfo/soekris-tech
Re: [Soekris] Debian install on 4801, eth0 won't work.
William Estrada wrote:
I'm new to Debian, how do I install this driver??
William,
(Re-posting to the list as well. Can the list owner please automatically add an
appropriate Reply-To header?).
I agree with Andy, you may have been bitten by the persistent net rules (put in
place by udev and then applied from then on).
A few things to do:
1. find out which ethernet interfaces you have and which drivers are attached
to them as follows:
# ls -l /sys/class/net/eth*/device/driver
2. if, as Andy and I suspect, you can find all three of your interfaces but
with unexpected names (such as eth{345}), then you indeed have the udev problem
described above. The idea of these udev rules is to guarantee that the names of
your network interfaces will always be the same, regardless of boot order
(particularly, regardless of the order in which network device drivers are
loaded, as this is where races might occur or changes might be made from one
kernel release to the next).
Inspect the file /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules . You will find, for
each of the network interfaces that this disk image has ever seen, a binding of
the MAC address to a device name. You can either manually edit this (so that
the rule for your eth0's MAC address actually maps it to eth0 rather than to
eth3 or whatever), or just delete all of the rules that are currently wrong.
Just deleting the rules works, because those rules are automatically generated
upon boot, when the system finds a network interface with a MAC address for
which no rule exists yet.
3. if in fact you don't find any network interfaces then you may indeed have a
driver problem. Find out whether the driver exists on your system as follows:
# find /lib/modules/`uname -r` -name natsemi.ko
Also verify that it's not blacklisted:
# cd /etc/modprobe.d
# fgrep -r natsemi *
Hope this helps.
Jan
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Re: [Soekris] Debian install on 4801, eth0 won't work.
Jan, Ted, List,
This has been an interesting project. I needed to build a new image for
my 4801 with limited interruptions of server. That did not happen, it
would have been quicker to that the server offline and use it to rebuild
the system. The process was a learning experience and something I will
use in the future.
To start with I used this link:
http://www.linuxvillage.ca/support/soekris4801.html
It worked to a point. The drivers for the Soekris did not get installed.
I found that I needed to install x11-common to get them, that worked.
Now to the Udev stuff. Have not yet figured it out, I will post the
fix when I get it.
Another problem I am seeing is a very annoying message taht make the
serial console useless. Over and over:
tail /var/log/kern.log
Feb 20 18:00:01 server kernel: [ 949.541144] Info fld=0x0
Feb 20 18:00:01 server kernel: [ 949.541145] sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] Add.
Sense: No additional sense information
Feb 20 18:00:01 server kernel: [ 949.555006] sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] Sense
Key : No Sense [current]
Feb 20 18:00:01 server kernel: [ 949.555010] Info fld=0x0
Feb 20 18:00:01 server kernel: [ 949.555012] sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] Add.
Sense: No additional sense information
Feb 20 18:00:07 server kernel: [ 955.007900] sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] Sense
Key : No Sense [current]
I think this is be cause I am booting from a USB HDD and maybe fixable
with a kernel option?
All in all, it is mostly there.
Thanks again to all for your time.
Jan Ceuleers wrote:
William Estrada wrote:
I'm new to Debian, how do I install this driver??
William,
(Re-posting to the list as well. Can the list owner please automatically add
an appropriate Reply-To header?).
I agree with Andy, you may have been bitten by the persistent net rules (put
in place by udev and then applied from then on).
A few things to do:
1. find out which ethernet interfaces you have and which drivers are attached
to them as follows:
# ls -l /sys/class/net/eth*/device/driver
2. if, as Andy and I suspect, you can find all three of your interfaces but
with unexpected names (such as eth{345}), then you indeed have the udev
problem described above. The idea of these udev rules is to guarantee that
the names of your network interfaces will always be the same, regardless of
boot order (particularly, regardless of the order in which network device
drivers are loaded, as this is where races might occur or changes might be
made from one kernel release to the next).
Inspect the file /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules . You will find,
for each of the network interfaces that this disk image has ever seen, a
binding of the MAC address to a device name. You can either manually edit
this (so that the rule for your eth0's MAC address actually maps it to eth0
rather than to eth3 or whatever), or just delete all of the rules that are
currently wrong.
Just deleting the rules works, because those rules are automatically
generated upon boot, when the system finds a network interface with a MAC
address for which no rule exists yet.
3. if in fact you don't find any network interfaces then you may indeed have
a driver problem. Find out whether the driver exists on your system as
follows:
# find /lib/modules/`uname -r` -name natsemi.ko
Also verify that it's not blacklisted:
# cd /etc/modprobe.d
# fgrep -r natsemi *
Hope this helps.
Jan
--
William Estrada
Mt Umunhum, CA, USA
HTTP://64.124.13.3 ( Mt-Umunhum-Wireless.net )
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Re: [Soekris] Debian install on 4801, eth0 won't work.
Hi William, William Estrada writes: I have just built a Debian Lenny image for my 4801, which is currently running FC5. It boots but will not bring up eth0, I am using the serial console. I have tested the build with my laptop and eth0 works just fine. Did i miss a module for the 4801?? Any ideas?? The uses the 'natsemi' driver (CONFIG_NATSEMI). Is it possible that the port is damaged? Have you tried eth1 or eth2? Cheers, -Ted ___ Soekris-tech mailing list Soekris-tech@lists.soekris.com http://lists.soekris.com/mailman/listinfo/soekris-tech
Re: [Soekris] Debian install on 4801, eth0 won't work.
Ted Phelps wrote: Ted, The port is OK, it works with the currect OS ( FC5 ). I'm new to Debian, how do I install this driver?? Hi William, William Estrada writes: I have just built a Debian Lenny image for my 4801, which is currently running FC5. It boots but will not bring up eth0, I am using the serial console. I have tested the build with my laptop and eth0 works just fine. Did i miss a module for the 4801?? Any ideas?? The uses the 'natsemi' driver (CONFIG_NATSEMI). Is it possible that the port is damaged? Have you tried eth1 or eth2? Cheers, -Ted -- William Estrada Mt Umunhum, CA, USA HTTP://64.124.13.3 ( Mt-Umunhum-Wireless.net ) ___ Soekris-tech mailing list Soekris-tech@lists.soekris.com http://lists.soekris.com/mailman/listinfo/soekris-tech
Re: [Soekris] Debian install on 4801, eth0 won't work.
William, I think you may be experiencing an issue with udev. If you've mounted this image on another machine, all of the eth ports will be assigned to specific MAC addresses (the ones on your laptop). If you then put the image on the soekris, you'll see that the eth ports you thought you had won't appear to be working. I think you can delete the udev entries for your laptop's MAC addresses and that should clear up the issue. I don't recall exact details, but a man udev should do it. -Andy On Feb 20, 2010, at 6:35 PM, William Estrada wrote: Ted Phelps wrote: Ted, The port is OK, it works with the currect OS ( FC5 ). I'm new to Debian, how do I install this driver?? Hi William, William Estrada writes: I have just built a Debian Lenny image for my 4801, which is currently running FC5. It boots but will not bring up eth0, I am using the serial console. I have tested the build with my laptop and eth0 works just fine. Did i miss a module for the 4801?? Any ideas?? The uses the 'natsemi' driver (CONFIG_NATSEMI). Is it possible that the port is damaged? Have you tried eth1 or eth2? Cheers, -Ted -- William Estrada Mt Umunhum, CA, USA HTTP://64.124.13.3 ( Mt-Umunhum-Wireless.net ) ___ Soekris-tech mailing list Soekris-tech@lists.soekris.com http://lists.soekris.com/mailman/listinfo/soekris-tech ___ Soekris-tech mailing list Soekris-tech@lists.soekris.com http://lists.soekris.com/mailman/listinfo/soekris-tech
Re: [Soekris] Debian install on 4801, eth0 won't work.
Hi William, William Estrada writes: The port is OK, it works with the currect OS ( FC5 ). Just checking. :-) I'm new to Debian, how do I install this driver?? I'm not a Debian user myself, but you can check to see if the module is available by looking for natsemi.ko in: /lib/modules/kernel-version/kernel/drivers/net If it's there, you can use modprobe to load it: modprobe natsemi And ethtool will show you if it's working: ethtool eth0 If that all looks good then you have a configuration problem, which is beyond my Debian-fu. -Ted ___ Soekris-tech mailing list Soekris-tech@lists.soekris.com http://lists.soekris.com/mailman/listinfo/soekris-tech
