Re: Why do people want to deploy to Tomcat?
So, it sounds like that either Solr is treated as a webapp, in which case it is installed with most of the webapps under Tomcat (legacy/operational reason). So, Solr docs just needs to explain how to deploy under Tomcat and the rest of document/tooling comes from Tomcat community. Or, if Solr is treated not as a webapp but as a black box, it needs to support and explain all the operational requirements (deployment, extension, monitoring) that are currently waved away as a 'container issue'. Regards, Alex. P.s. I also agree that example directory layout is become very confusing and may need to be re-thought. Probably a discussion for a different thread, if somebody has a thought out suggestion. Personal website: http://www.outerthoughts.com/ LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/alexandrerafalovitch - Time is the quality of nature that keeps events from happening all at once. Lately, it doesn't seem to be working. (Anonymous - via GTD book) On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 8:32 PM, Gopal Patwa gopalpa...@gmail.com wrote: My case is also similar to Sujit Pal but we have jboss6. On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 9:47 AM, Sujit Pal sujit@comcast.net wrote: In our case, it is because all our other applications are deployed on Tomcat and ops is familiar with the deployment process. We also had customizations that needed to go in, so we inserted our custom JAR into the solr.war's WEB-INF/lib directory, so to ops the process of deploying Solr was (almost, except for schema.xml or solrconfig.xml changes) identical to any of the other apps. But I think if Solr becomes a server with clearly defined extension points (such as dropping your custom JARs into lib/ and custom configuration in conf/solrconfig.xml or similar like it already is) then it will be treated as something other than a webapp and the expectation that it runs on Tomcat will not apply. Just my $0.02... Sujit On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 9:13 AM, Siegfried Goeschl sgoes...@gmx.at wrote: Hi ALex, in my case * ignorance that Tomcat is not fully supported * Tomcat configuration and operations know-how inhouse * could migrate to Jetty but need approved change request to do so Cheers, Siegfried Goeschl On 12.11.13 04:54, Alexandre Rafalovitch wrote: Hello, I keep seeing here and on Stack Overflow people trying to deploy Solr to Tomcat. We don't usually ask why, just help when where we can. But the question happens often enough that I am curious. What is the actual business case. Is that because Tomcat is well known? Is it because other apps are running under Tomcat and it is ops' requirement? Is it because Tomcat gives something - to Solr - that Jetty does not? It might be useful to know. Especially, since Solr team is considering making the server part into a black box component. What use cases will that break? So, if somebody runs Solr under Tomcat (or needed to and gave up), let's use this thread to collect this knowledge. Regards, Alex. Personal website: http://www.outerthoughts.com/ LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/alexandrerafalovitch - Time is the quality of nature that keeps events from happening all at once. Lately, it doesn't seem to be working. (Anonymous - via GTD book)
Re: Why do people want to deploy to Tomcat?
Hi, Reading that people have considered deploying example folder is slightly strange to me. No wonder they are confused and confuse their ops. We just took vanilla jetty (jetty9) and installed solr.war on it, configured it, no example folders at all. Since then it works nicely. The main reason for us to get away from tomcat, that we have used originally, was that it felt too heavy for running a Solr webapp, which isn't using anything Tomcat-specific. In older versions (tomcat6) it would leak memory and threads. We knew, that jetty is mature enough and is lighter and used at large companies, like Google. This was convincing enough to try. We are still using Tomcat for other webapps, specifically for clustering and load balancing between webapp instances, but that is not needed for our Solr installation at this point. Regards, Dmitry Blog: http://dmitrykan.blogspot.com Twitter: twitter.com/dmitrykan On Wed, Nov 13, 2013 at 1:42 PM, Alexandre Rafalovitch arafa...@gmail.comwrote: So, it sounds like that either Solr is treated as a webapp, in which case it is installed with most of the webapps under Tomcat (legacy/operational reason). So, Solr docs just needs to explain how to deploy under Tomcat and the rest of document/tooling comes from Tomcat community. Or, if Solr is treated not as a webapp but as a black box, it needs to support and explain all the operational requirements (deployment, extension, monitoring) that are currently waved away as a 'container issue'. Regards, Alex. P.s. I also agree that example directory layout is become very confusing and may need to be re-thought. Probably a discussion for a different thread, if somebody has a thought out suggestion. Personal website: http://www.outerthoughts.com/ LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/alexandrerafalovitch - Time is the quality of nature that keeps events from happening all at once. Lately, it doesn't seem to be working. (Anonymous - via GTD book) On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 8:32 PM, Gopal Patwa gopalpa...@gmail.com wrote: My case is also similar to Sujit Pal but we have jboss6. On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 9:47 AM, Sujit Pal sujit@comcast.net wrote: In our case, it is because all our other applications are deployed on Tomcat and ops is familiar with the deployment process. We also had customizations that needed to go in, so we inserted our custom JAR into the solr.war's WEB-INF/lib directory, so to ops the process of deploying Solr was (almost, except for schema.xml or solrconfig.xml changes) identical to any of the other apps. But I think if Solr becomes a server with clearly defined extension points (such as dropping your custom JARs into lib/ and custom configuration in conf/solrconfig.xml or similar like it already is) then it will be treated as something other than a webapp and the expectation that it runs on Tomcat will not apply. Just my $0.02... Sujit On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 9:13 AM, Siegfried Goeschl sgoes...@gmx.at wrote: Hi ALex, in my case * ignorance that Tomcat is not fully supported * Tomcat configuration and operations know-how inhouse * could migrate to Jetty but need approved change request to do so Cheers, Siegfried Goeschl On 12.11.13 04:54, Alexandre Rafalovitch wrote: Hello, I keep seeing here and on Stack Overflow people trying to deploy Solr to Tomcat. We don't usually ask why, just help when where we can. But the question happens often enough that I am curious. What is the actual business case. Is that because Tomcat is well known? Is it because other apps are running under Tomcat and it is ops' requirement? Is it because Tomcat gives something - to Solr - that Jetty does not? It might be useful to know. Especially, since Solr team is considering making the server part into a black box component. What use cases will that break? So, if somebody runs Solr under Tomcat (or needed to and gave up), let's use this thread to collect this knowledge. Regards, Alex. Personal website: http://www.outerthoughts.com/ LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/alexandrerafalovitch - Time is the quality of nature that keeps events from happening all at once. Lately, it doesn't seem to be working. (Anonymous - via GTD book)
Re: Why do people want to deploy to Tomcat?
On 11/13/2013 5:29 AM, Dmitry Kan wrote: Reading that people have considered deploying example folder is slightly strange to me. No wonder they are confused and confuse their ops. I do use the stripped jetty included in the example, but my setup is not a straight copy of the example directory. I removed a lot of it and changed how jars get loaded. I built my own init script from scratch, tailored for my setup. I'll start a new thread with my init script and some info about how I installed Solr. Thanks, Shawn
Re: Why do people want to deploy to Tomcat?
RE: the example folder It’s something I’ve been pushing towards moving away from for a long time - see https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SOLR-3619 Rename 'example' dir to 'server' and pull examples into an 'examples’ directory Part of a push I’ve been on to own the Container level (people are now on board with that for 5.0), add start scripts, and other niceties that we should have but don’t yet. Even our config files should move away from being an “example” and end up more like a default starting template. Like a database, it should be simple to create a collection without needing to deal with config - you want to deal with the config when you need to, not face it all up front every time it is time to create a new collection. IMO, the name example is historical - most people already use it this way, the name just confuses matters. - Mark On Nov 13, 2013, at 12:30 PM, Shawn Heisey s...@elyograg.org wrote: On 11/13/2013 5:29 AM, Dmitry Kan wrote: Reading that people have considered deploying example folder is slightly strange to me. No wonder they are confused and confuse their ops. I do use the stripped jetty included in the example, but my setup is not a straight copy of the example directory. I removed a lot of it and changed how jars get loaded. I built my own init script from scratch, tailored for my setup. I'll start a new thread with my init script and some info about how I installed Solr. Thanks, Shawn
Re: Why do people want to deploy to Tomcat?
which example? there are so many. On Wed, Nov 13, 2013 at 1:00 PM, Mark Miller markrmil...@gmail.com wrote: RE: the example folder It’s something I’ve been pushing towards moving away from for a long time - see https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SOLR-3619 Rename 'example' dir to 'server' and pull examples into an 'examples’ directory Part of a push I’ve been on to own the Container level (people are now on board with that for 5.0), add start scripts, and other niceties that we should have but don’t yet. Even our config files should move away from being an “example” and end up more like a default starting template. Like a database, it should be simple to create a collection without needing to deal with config - you want to deal with the config when you need to, not face it all up front every time it is time to create a new collection. IMO, the name example is historical - most people already use it this way, the name just confuses matters. - Mark On Nov 13, 2013, at 12:30 PM, Shawn Heisey s...@elyograg.org wrote: On 11/13/2013 5:29 AM, Dmitry Kan wrote: Reading that people have considered deploying example folder is slightly strange to me. No wonder they are confused and confuse their ops. I do use the stripped jetty included in the example, but my setup is not a straight copy of the example directory. I removed a lot of it and changed how jars get loaded. I built my own init script from scratch, tailored for my setup. I'll start a new thread with my init script and some info about how I installed Solr. Thanks, Shawn
Re: Why do people want to deploy to Tomcat?
We are using Solr running on Tomcat. I think the top reasons for us are : - we already have nagios monitoring plugins for tomcat that trace queries ok/error, http codes / response time etc in access logs, number of threads, jvm memory usage etc - start, stop, watchdogs, logs : we also use our standard tools for that - what about security filters ? Is that possible with jetty ? André On 11/12/2013 04:54 AM, Alexandre Rafalovitch wrote: Hello, I keep seeing here and on Stack Overflow people trying to deploy Solr to Tomcat. We don't usually ask why, just help when where we can. But the question happens often enough that I am curious. What is the actual business case. Is that because Tomcat is well known? Is it because other apps are running under Tomcat and it is ops' requirement? Is it because Tomcat gives something - to Solr - that Jetty does not? It might be useful to know. Especially, since Solr team is considering making the server part into a black box component. What use cases will that break? So, if somebody runs Solr under Tomcat (or needed to and gave up), let's use this thread to collect this knowledge. Regards, Alex. Personal website: http://www.outerthoughts.com/ LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/alexandrerafalovitch - Time is the quality of nature that keeps events from happening all at once. Lately, it doesn't seem to be working. (Anonymous - via GTD book) -- André Bois-Crettez Software Architect Search Developer http://www.kelkoo.com/ Kelkoo SAS Société par Actions Simplifiée Au capital de € 4.168.964,30 Siège social : 8, rue du Sentier 75002 Paris 425 093 069 RCS Paris Ce message et les pièces jointes sont confidentiels et établis à l'attention exclusive de leurs destinataires. Si vous n'êtes pas le destinataire de ce message, merci de le détruire et d'en avertir l'expéditeur.
Re: Why do people want to deploy to Tomcat?
In my case, the selection of the servlet container has never been a hard requirement. I mean, some customers provide us a virtual machine configured with java/tomcat , others have a tomcat installed and want to share it with solr, others prefer jetty because their sysadmins are used to configure it... At least in the projects I've been working in, the selection of the servlet engine has not been a key factor in the project success. Regards. On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 12:11 PM, Andre Bois-Crettez andre.b...@kelkoo.comwrote: We are using Solr running on Tomcat. I think the top reasons for us are : - we already have nagios monitoring plugins for tomcat that trace queries ok/error, http codes / response time etc in access logs, number of threads, jvm memory usage etc - start, stop, watchdogs, logs : we also use our standard tools for that - what about security filters ? Is that possible with jetty ? André On 11/12/2013 04:54 AM, Alexandre Rafalovitch wrote: Hello, I keep seeing here and on Stack Overflow people trying to deploy Solr to Tomcat. We don't usually ask why, just help when where we can. But the question happens often enough that I am curious. What is the actual business case. Is that because Tomcat is well known? Is it because other apps are running under Tomcat and it is ops' requirement? Is it because Tomcat gives something - to Solr - that Jetty does not? It might be useful to know. Especially, since Solr team is considering making the server part into a black box component. What use cases will that break? So, if somebody runs Solr under Tomcat (or needed to and gave up), let's use this thread to collect this knowledge. Regards, Alex. Personal website: http://www.outerthoughts.com/ LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/alexandrerafalovitch - Time is the quality of nature that keeps events from happening all at once. Lately, it doesn't seem to be working. (Anonymous - via GTD book) -- André Bois-Crettez Software Architect Search Developer http://www.kelkoo.com/ Kelkoo SAS Société par Actions Simplifiée Au capital de € 4.168.964,30 Siège social : 8, rue du Sentier 75002 Paris 425 093 069 RCS Paris Ce message et les pièces jointes sont confidentiels et établis à l'attention exclusive de leurs destinataires. Si vous n'êtes pas le destinataire de ce message, merci de le détruire et d'en avertir l'expéditeur.
Re: Why do people want to deploy to Tomcat?
In my case, the first time I had to deploy and configure solr on tomcat (and jboss) it was a requirement to reuse as much as possible the application/web server already in place. The next deployment I also use tomcat, because I was used to deploy on tomcat and I don't know jetty at all. I could ask the same question with regard to jetty. Why use/bundle(/ if not recommend) jetty with solr over other webserver solutions? Regards, Roland Everaert. On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 12:33 PM, Alvaro Cabrerizo topor...@gmail.comwrote: In my case, the selection of the servlet container has never been a hard requirement. I mean, some customers provide us a virtual machine configured with java/tomcat , others have a tomcat installed and want to share it with solr, others prefer jetty because their sysadmins are used to configure it... At least in the projects I've been working in, the selection of the servlet engine has not been a key factor in the project success. Regards. On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 12:11 PM, Andre Bois-Crettez andre.b...@kelkoo.comwrote: We are using Solr running on Tomcat. I think the top reasons for us are : - we already have nagios monitoring plugins for tomcat that trace queries ok/error, http codes / response time etc in access logs, number of threads, jvm memory usage etc - start, stop, watchdogs, logs : we also use our standard tools for that - what about security filters ? Is that possible with jetty ? André On 11/12/2013 04:54 AM, Alexandre Rafalovitch wrote: Hello, I keep seeing here and on Stack Overflow people trying to deploy Solr to Tomcat. We don't usually ask why, just help when where we can. But the question happens often enough that I am curious. What is the actual business case. Is that because Tomcat is well known? Is it because other apps are running under Tomcat and it is ops' requirement? Is it because Tomcat gives something - to Solr - that Jetty does not? It might be useful to know. Especially, since Solr team is considering making the server part into a black box component. What use cases will that break? So, if somebody runs Solr under Tomcat (or needed to and gave up), let's use this thread to collect this knowledge. Regards, Alex. Personal website: http://www.outerthoughts.com/ LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/alexandrerafalovitch - Time is the quality of nature that keeps events from happening all at once. Lately, it doesn't seem to be working. (Anonymous - via GTD book) -- André Bois-Crettez Software Architect Search Developer http://www.kelkoo.com/ Kelkoo SAS Société par Actions Simplifiée Au capital de € 4.168.964,30 Siège social : 8, rue du Sentier 75002 Paris 425 093 069 RCS Paris Ce message et les pièces jointes sont confidentiels et établis à l'attention exclusive de leurs destinataires. Si vous n'êtes pas le destinataire de ce message, merci de le détruire et d'en avertir l'expéditeur.
Re: Why do people want to deploy to Tomcat?
I personally felt Tomcat to be in a more appropriate community, that of the Apache Foundation, than Jetty. Also, jetty always has been striving for simplicity and that's really not always what you intend to when you plan an app-server. E.g. features such as the manager or mod_ajp appeared important to me at the time. Now… it's more of a habit. But the first argument remains to my feelings. Paul Le 12 nov. 2013 à 04:54, Alexandre Rafalovitch arafa...@gmail.com a écrit : Hello, I keep seeing here and on Stack Overflow people trying to deploy Solr to Tomcat. We don't usually ask why, just help when where we can. But the question happens often enough that I am curious. What is the actual business case. Is that because Tomcat is well known? Is it because other apps are running under Tomcat and it is ops' requirement? Is it because Tomcat gives something - to Solr - that Jetty does not? It might be useful to know. Especially, since Solr team is considering making the server part into a black box component. What use cases will that break? So, if somebody runs Solr under Tomcat (or needed to and gave up), let's use this thread to collect this knowledge. Regards, Alex. Personal website: http://www.outerthoughts.com/ LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/alexandrerafalovitch - Time is the quality of nature that keeps events from happening all at once. Lately, it doesn't seem to be working. (Anonymous - via GTD book)
Re: Why do people want to deploy to Tomcat?
As an aside, I think one reason people feel compelled to deviate from the distributed jetty distribution is because the folder is named example. I've had to explain to a few clients that this is a bit of a misnomer. The IT dept especially sees example and feels uncomfortable using that as a starting point for a jetty install. I wish it was called default or bin or something where its more obviously the default jetty distribution of Solr. On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 7:06 AM, Roland Everaert reveatw...@gmail.comwrote: In my case, the first time I had to deploy and configure solr on tomcat (and jboss) it was a requirement to reuse as much as possible the application/web server already in place. The next deployment I also use tomcat, because I was used to deploy on tomcat and I don't know jetty at all. I could ask the same question with regard to jetty. Why use/bundle(/ if not recommend) jetty with solr over other webserver solutions? Regards, Roland Everaert. On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 12:33 PM, Alvaro Cabrerizo topor...@gmail.com wrote: In my case, the selection of the servlet container has never been a hard requirement. I mean, some customers provide us a virtual machine configured with java/tomcat , others have a tomcat installed and want to share it with solr, others prefer jetty because their sysadmins are used to configure it... At least in the projects I've been working in, the selection of the servlet engine has not been a key factor in the project success. Regards. On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 12:11 PM, Andre Bois-Crettez andre.b...@kelkoo.comwrote: We are using Solr running on Tomcat. I think the top reasons for us are : - we already have nagios monitoring plugins for tomcat that trace queries ok/error, http codes / response time etc in access logs, number of threads, jvm memory usage etc - start, stop, watchdogs, logs : we also use our standard tools for that - what about security filters ? Is that possible with jetty ? André On 11/12/2013 04:54 AM, Alexandre Rafalovitch wrote: Hello, I keep seeing here and on Stack Overflow people trying to deploy Solr to Tomcat. We don't usually ask why, just help when where we can. But the question happens often enough that I am curious. What is the actual business case. Is that because Tomcat is well known? Is it because other apps are running under Tomcat and it is ops' requirement? Is it because Tomcat gives something - to Solr - that Jetty does not? It might be useful to know. Especially, since Solr team is considering making the server part into a black box component. What use cases will that break? So, if somebody runs Solr under Tomcat (or needed to and gave up), let's use this thread to collect this knowledge. Regards, Alex. Personal website: http://www.outerthoughts.com/ LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/alexandrerafalovitch - Time is the quality of nature that keeps events from happening all at once. Lately, it doesn't seem to be working. (Anonymous - via GTD book) -- André Bois-Crettez Software Architect Search Developer http://www.kelkoo.com/ Kelkoo SAS Société par Actions Simplifiée Au capital de € 4.168.964,30 Siège social : 8, rue du Sentier 75002 Paris 425 093 069 RCS Paris Ce message et les pièces jointes sont confidentiels et établis à l'attention exclusive de leurs destinataires. Si vous n'êtes pas le destinataire de ce message, merci de le détruire et d'en avertir l'expéditeur. -- Doug Turnbull Search Big Data Architect OpenSource Connections http://o19s.com
Re: Why do people want to deploy to Tomcat?
Agreed with Doug On 12-Nov-2013 6:46 PM, Doug Turnbull dturnb...@opensourceconnections.com wrote: As an aside, I think one reason people feel compelled to deviate from the distributed jetty distribution is because the folder is named example. I've had to explain to a few clients that this is a bit of a misnomer. The IT dept especially sees example and feels uncomfortable using that as a starting point for a jetty install. I wish it was called default or bin or something where its more obviously the default jetty distribution of Solr. On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 7:06 AM, Roland Everaert reveatw...@gmail.com wrote: In my case, the first time I had to deploy and configure solr on tomcat (and jboss) it was a requirement to reuse as much as possible the application/web server already in place. The next deployment I also use tomcat, because I was used to deploy on tomcat and I don't know jetty at all. I could ask the same question with regard to jetty. Why use/bundle(/ if not recommend) jetty with solr over other webserver solutions? Regards, Roland Everaert. On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 12:33 PM, Alvaro Cabrerizo topor...@gmail.com wrote: In my case, the selection of the servlet container has never been a hard requirement. I mean, some customers provide us a virtual machine configured with java/tomcat , others have a tomcat installed and want to share it with solr, others prefer jetty because their sysadmins are used to configure it... At least in the projects I've been working in, the selection of the servlet engine has not been a key factor in the project success. Regards. On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 12:11 PM, Andre Bois-Crettez andre.b...@kelkoo.comwrote: We are using Solr running on Tomcat. I think the top reasons for us are : - we already have nagios monitoring plugins for tomcat that trace queries ok/error, http codes / response time etc in access logs, number of threads, jvm memory usage etc - start, stop, watchdogs, logs : we also use our standard tools for that - what about security filters ? Is that possible with jetty ? André On 11/12/2013 04:54 AM, Alexandre Rafalovitch wrote: Hello, I keep seeing here and on Stack Overflow people trying to deploy Solr to Tomcat. We don't usually ask why, just help when where we can. But the question happens often enough that I am curious. What is the actual business case. Is that because Tomcat is well known? Is it because other apps are running under Tomcat and it is ops' requirement? Is it because Tomcat gives something - to Solr - that Jetty does not? It might be useful to know. Especially, since Solr team is considering making the server part into a black box component. What use cases will that break? So, if somebody runs Solr under Tomcat (or needed to and gave up), let's use this thread to collect this knowledge. Regards, Alex. Personal website: http://www.outerthoughts.com/ LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/alexandrerafalovitch - Time is the quality of nature that keeps events from happening all at once. Lately, it doesn't seem to be working. (Anonymous - via GTD book) -- André Bois-Crettez Software Architect Search Developer http://www.kelkoo.com/ Kelkoo SAS Société par Actions Simplifiée Au capital de € 4.168.964,30 Siège social : 8, rue du Sentier 75002 Paris 425 093 069 RCS Paris Ce message et les pièces jointes sont confidentiels et établis à l'attention exclusive de leurs destinataires. Si vous n'êtes pas le destinataire de ce message, merci de le détruire et d'en avertir l'expéditeur. -- Doug Turnbull Search Big Data Architect OpenSource Connections http://o19s.com
Re: Why do people want to deploy to Tomcat?
I agree with Doug, when I started I had to spend some time figuring out what was just an example and what I would have to change in a production environment... until I found that all the example was ready for production. Of course, you commonly have to change the settings, parameters, fields, etc. of your Solr system, but the example doesn't have anything that is not for production. Sebastián Ramírez [image: SENSETA – Capture Analyze] http://www.senseta.com/ On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 8:18 AM, Amit Aggarwal amit.aggarwa...@gmail.comwrote: Agreed with Doug On 12-Nov-2013 6:46 PM, Doug Turnbull dturnb...@opensourceconnections.com wrote: As an aside, I think one reason people feel compelled to deviate from the distributed jetty distribution is because the folder is named example. I've had to explain to a few clients that this is a bit of a misnomer. The IT dept especially sees example and feels uncomfortable using that as a starting point for a jetty install. I wish it was called default or bin or something where its more obviously the default jetty distribution of Solr. On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 7:06 AM, Roland Everaert reveatw...@gmail.com wrote: In my case, the first time I had to deploy and configure solr on tomcat (and jboss) it was a requirement to reuse as much as possible the application/web server already in place. The next deployment I also use tomcat, because I was used to deploy on tomcat and I don't know jetty at all. I could ask the same question with regard to jetty. Why use/bundle(/ if not recommend) jetty with solr over other webserver solutions? Regards, Roland Everaert. On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 12:33 PM, Alvaro Cabrerizo topor...@gmail.com wrote: In my case, the selection of the servlet container has never been a hard requirement. I mean, some customers provide us a virtual machine configured with java/tomcat , others have a tomcat installed and want to share it with solr, others prefer jetty because their sysadmins are used to configure it... At least in the projects I've been working in, the selection of the servlet engine has not been a key factor in the project success. Regards. On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 12:11 PM, Andre Bois-Crettez andre.b...@kelkoo.comwrote: We are using Solr running on Tomcat. I think the top reasons for us are : - we already have nagios monitoring plugins for tomcat that trace queries ok/error, http codes / response time etc in access logs, number of threads, jvm memory usage etc - start, stop, watchdogs, logs : we also use our standard tools for that - what about security filters ? Is that possible with jetty ? André On 11/12/2013 04:54 AM, Alexandre Rafalovitch wrote: Hello, I keep seeing here and on Stack Overflow people trying to deploy Solr to Tomcat. We don't usually ask why, just help when where we can. But the question happens often enough that I am curious. What is the actual business case. Is that because Tomcat is well known? Is it because other apps are running under Tomcat and it is ops' requirement? Is it because Tomcat gives something - to Solr - that Jetty does not? It might be useful to know. Especially, since Solr team is considering making the server part into a black box component. What use cases will that break? So, if somebody runs Solr under Tomcat (or needed to and gave up), let's use this thread to collect this knowledge. Regards, Alex. Personal website: http://www.outerthoughts.com/ LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/alexandrerafalovitch - Time is the quality of nature that keeps events from happening all at once. Lately, it doesn't seem to be working. (Anonymous - via GTD book) -- André Bois-Crettez Software Architect Search Developer http://www.kelkoo.com/ Kelkoo SAS Société par Actions Simplifiée Au capital de € 4.168.964,30 Siège social : 8, rue du Sentier 75002 Paris 425 093 069 RCS Paris Ce message et les pièces jointes sont confidentiels et établis à l'attention exclusive de leurs destinataires. Si vous n'êtes pas le destinataire de ce message, merci de le détruire et d'en avertir l'expéditeur. -- Doug Turnbull Search Big Data Architect OpenSource Connections http://o19s.com -- ** *This e-mail transmission, including any attachments, is intended only for the named recipient(s) and may contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you have received this transmission in error, or are not the named
RE: Why do people want to deploy to Tomcat?
For me, a side-affect of 'example' is that it's just that, not appropriate for production. But also, there's the organisation factor beyond Solr that is about staff expertise - we don't have any systems that utilise jetty so we're unfamiliar with its configuration, issues, or oddities. Tomcat is our defacto container so it makes sense for us to implement Solr within Tomcat. If we ruled out these reasons, I'd still be looking for a container that: - was a standalone installation (i.e., outside of Solr tarball) so that it would be managed via yum (we run on RHEL). This separates any issues of Solr from issues of jetty, which given a current lack of jetty knowledge would be a helpful thing. - the container service could be managed via standard SysV startup processes. To be fair, I've implemented our own for Tomcat and could do this for jetty, but I'd prefer jetty included this (which would suggest it is more prepared for enterprise use). - Likewise, I assume all of jetty's configuration can be reset to use normal RHEL /etc/ and /var/ directories, but I'd prefer that jetty did this for me (to demonstrate again it's enterprise-ready status). Yes, I could do all the necessary bespoke configuration so that jetty follows the above reasons, but because I'd have to I question if it's ready for our enterprise setup (which mainly means that our Operations team will fight against unusual configurations). Having added all of this, I have to admit that I like the idea of using jetty because you guys tell me that Solr is affectively pre-configured for jetty. But then I'd want to know what in particular these jetty configurations were! BTW Very pleased that this is being discussed - the views can help me argue our case to use jetty if it is indeed more beneficial to do so. Gil -Original Message- From: Sebastián Ramírez [mailto:sebastian.rami...@senseta.com] Sent: 12 November 2013 13:38 To: solr-user@lucene.apache.org Subject: Re: Why do people want to deploy to Tomcat? I agree with Doug, when I started I had to spend some time figuring out what was just an example and what I would have to change in a production environment... until I found that all the example was ready for production. Of course, you commonly have to change the settings, parameters, fields, etc. of your Solr system, but the example doesn't have anything that is not for production. Sebastián Ramírez [image: SENSETA – Capture Analyze] http://www.senseta.com/ On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 8:18 AM, Amit Aggarwal amit.aggarwa...@gmail.comwrote: Agreed with Doug On 12-Nov-2013 6:46 PM, Doug Turnbull dturnb...@opensourceconnections.com wrote: As an aside, I think one reason people feel compelled to deviate from the distributed jetty distribution is because the folder is named example. I've had to explain to a few clients that this is a bit of a misnomer. The IT dept especially sees example and feels uncomfortable using that as a starting point for a jetty install. I wish it was called default or bin or something where its more obviously the default jetty distribution of Solr. On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 7:06 AM, Roland Everaert reveatw...@gmail.com wrote: In my case, the first time I had to deploy and configure solr on tomcat (and jboss) it was a requirement to reuse as much as possible the application/web server already in place. The next deployment I also use tomcat, because I was used to deploy on tomcat and I don't know jetty at all. I could ask the same question with regard to jetty. Why use/bundle(/ if not recommend) jetty with solr over other webserver solutions? Regards, Roland Everaert. On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 12:33 PM, Alvaro Cabrerizo topor...@gmail.com wrote: In my case, the selection of the servlet container has never been a hard requirement. I mean, some customers provide us a virtual machine configured with java/tomcat , others have a tomcat installed and want to share it with solr, others prefer jetty because their sysadmins are used to configure it... At least in the projects I've been working in, the selection of the servlet engine has not been a key factor in the project success. Regards. On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 12:11 PM, Andre Bois-Crettez andre.b...@kelkoo.comwrote: We are using Solr running on Tomcat. I think the top reasons for us are : - we already have nagios monitoring plugins for tomcat that trace queries ok/error, http codes / response time etc in access logs, number of threads, jvm memory usage etc - start, stop, watchdogs, logs : we also use our standard tools for that - what about security filters ? Is that possible with jetty ? André On 11/12/2013 04:54 AM, Alexandre Rafalovitch wrote: Hello
RE: Why do people want to deploy to Tomcat?
I agree with previous statements about the ‘example’ name is putting people off. Not only that though, I believe there are still some of the official wiki pages that directly states that the shipped Jetty is not appropriate for production use, which was what made us use Tomcat for a long while (that, and one developer had previous experience with Tomcat configuration). -- Henrik Ossipoff Hansen Developer, Entertainment Trading On 12. nov. 2013 at 15.45.42, Hoggarth, Gil (gil.hogga...@bl.ukmailto://gil.hogga...@bl.uk) wrote: For me, a side-affect of 'example' is that it's just that, not appropriate for production. But also, there's the organisation factor beyond Solr that is about staff expertise - we don't have any systems that utilise jetty so we're unfamiliar with its configuration, issues, or oddities. Tomcat is our defacto container so it makes sense for us to implement Solr within Tomcat. If we ruled out these reasons, I'd still be looking for a container that: - was a standalone installation (i.e., outside of Solr tarball) so that it would be managed via yum (we run on RHEL). This separates any issues of Solr from issues of jetty, which given a current lack of jetty knowledge would be a helpful thing. - the container service could be managed via standard SysV startup processes. To be fair, I've implemented our own for Tomcat and could do this for jetty, but I'd prefer jetty included this (which would suggest it is more prepared for enterprise use). - Likewise, I assume all of jetty's configuration can be reset to use normal RHEL /etc/ and /var/ directories, but I'd prefer that jetty did this for me (to demonstrate again it's enterprise-ready status). Yes, I could do all the necessary bespoke configuration so that jetty follows the above reasons, but because I'd have to I question if it's ready for our enterprise setup (which mainly means that our Operations team will fight against unusual configurations). Having added all of this, I have to admit that I like the idea of using jetty because you guys tell me that Solr is affectively pre-configured for jetty. But then I'd want to know what in particular these jetty configurations were! BTW Very pleased that this is being discussed - the views can help me argue our case to use jetty if it is indeed more beneficial to do so. Gil -Original Message- From: Sebastián Ramírez [mailto:sebastian.rami...@senseta.com] Sent: 12 November 2013 13:38 To: solr-user@lucene.apache.org Subject: Re: Why do people want to deploy to Tomcat? I agree with Doug, when I started I had to spend some time figuring out what was just an example and what I would have to change in a production environment... until I found that all the example was ready for production. Of course, you commonly have to change the settings, parameters, fields, etc. of your Solr system, but the example doesn't have anything that is not for production. Sebastián Ramírez [image: SENSETA – Capture Analyze] http://www.senseta.com/ On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 8:18 AM, Amit Aggarwal amit.aggarwa...@gmail.comwrote: Agreed with Doug On 12-Nov-2013 6:46 PM, Doug Turnbull dturnb...@opensourceconnections.com wrote: As an aside, I think one reason people feel compelled to deviate from the distributed jetty distribution is because the folder is named example. I've had to explain to a few clients that this is a bit of a misnomer. The IT dept especially sees example and feels uncomfortable using that as a starting point for a jetty install. I wish it was called default or bin or something where its more obviously the default jetty distribution of Solr. On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 7:06 AM, Roland Everaert reveatw...@gmail.com wrote: In my case, the first time I had to deploy and configure solr on tomcat (and jboss) it was a requirement to reuse as much as possible the application/web server already in place. The next deployment I also use tomcat, because I was used to deploy on tomcat and I don't know jetty at all. I could ask the same question with regard to jetty. Why use/bundle(/ if not recommend) jetty with solr over other webserver solutions? Regards, Roland Everaert. On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 12:33 PM, Alvaro Cabrerizo topor...@gmail.com wrote: In my case, the selection of the servlet container has never been a hard requirement. I mean, some customers provide us a virtual machine configured with java/tomcat , others have a tomcat installed and want to share it with solr, others prefer jetty because their sysadmins are used to configure it... At least in the projects I've been working in, the selection of the servlet engine has not been a key factor in the project success. Regards. On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 12:11 PM, Andre Bois-Crettez andre.b...@kelkoo.comwrote: We are using Solr running
Re: Why do people want to deploy to Tomcat?
We're a .NET shop. We use Windows Server for both .NET code and Solr hosting. With Tomcat we can get everything up and running with a few mouse clicks (it's as simple as next, next, next...) while setting up Jetty as a windows service can be quite tricky for non-Java developers. That's the only reason why we choose Tomcat instead of Jetty. On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 3:54 PM, Henrik Ossipoff Hansen h...@entertainment-trading.com wrote: I agree with previous statements about the ‘example’ name is putting people off. Not only that though, I believe there are still some of the official wiki pages that directly states that the shipped Jetty is not appropriate for production use, which was what made us use Tomcat for a long while (that, and one developer had previous experience with Tomcat configuration). -- Henrik Ossipoff Hansen Developer, Entertainment Trading On 12. nov. 2013 at 15.45.42, Hoggarth, Gil (gil.hogga...@bl.ukmailto:// gil.hogga...@bl.uk) wrote: For me, a side-affect of 'example' is that it's just that, not appropriate for production. But also, there's the organisation factor beyond Solr that is about staff expertise - we don't have any systems that utilise jetty so we're unfamiliar with its configuration, issues, or oddities. Tomcat is our defacto container so it makes sense for us to implement Solr within Tomcat. If we ruled out these reasons, I'd still be looking for a container that: - was a standalone installation (i.e., outside of Solr tarball) so that it would be managed via yum (we run on RHEL). This separates any issues of Solr from issues of jetty, which given a current lack of jetty knowledge would be a helpful thing. - the container service could be managed via standard SysV startup processes. To be fair, I've implemented our own for Tomcat and could do this for jetty, but I'd prefer jetty included this (which would suggest it is more prepared for enterprise use). - Likewise, I assume all of jetty's configuration can be reset to use normal RHEL /etc/ and /var/ directories, but I'd prefer that jetty did this for me (to demonstrate again it's enterprise-ready status). Yes, I could do all the necessary bespoke configuration so that jetty follows the above reasons, but because I'd have to I question if it's ready for our enterprise setup (which mainly means that our Operations team will fight against unusual configurations). Having added all of this, I have to admit that I like the idea of using jetty because you guys tell me that Solr is affectively pre-configured for jetty. But then I'd want to know what in particular these jetty configurations were! BTW Very pleased that this is being discussed - the views can help me argue our case to use jetty if it is indeed more beneficial to do so. Gil -Original Message- From: Sebastián Ramírez [mailto:sebastian.rami...@senseta.com] Sent: 12 November 2013 13:38 To: solr-user@lucene.apache.org Subject: Re: Why do people want to deploy to Tomcat? I agree with Doug, when I started I had to spend some time figuring out what was just an example and what I would have to change in a production environment... until I found that all the example was ready for production. Of course, you commonly have to change the settings, parameters, fields, etc. of your Solr system, but the example doesn't have anything that is not for production. Sebastián Ramírez [image: SENSETA – Capture Analyze] http://www.senseta.com/ On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 8:18 AM, Amit Aggarwal amit.aggarwa...@gmail.com wrote: Agreed with Doug On 12-Nov-2013 6:46 PM, Doug Turnbull dturnb...@opensourceconnections.com wrote: As an aside, I think one reason people feel compelled to deviate from the distributed jetty distribution is because the folder is named example. I've had to explain to a few clients that this is a bit of a misnomer. The IT dept especially sees example and feels uncomfortable using that as a starting point for a jetty install. I wish it was called default or bin or something where its more obviously the default jetty distribution of Solr. On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 7:06 AM, Roland Everaert reveatw...@gmail.com wrote: In my case, the first time I had to deploy and configure solr on tomcat (and jboss) it was a requirement to reuse as much as possible the application/web server already in place. The next deployment I also use tomcat, because I was used to deploy on tomcat and I don't know jetty at all. I could ask the same question with regard to jetty. Why use/bundle(/ if not recommend) jetty with solr over other webserver solutions? Regards, Roland Everaert. On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 12:33 PM, Alvaro Cabrerizo topor...@gmail.com wrote: In my case, the selection of the servlet container has never been a hard requirement. I mean, some
Re: Why do people want to deploy to Tomcat?
Hi ALex, in my case * ignorance that Tomcat is not fully supported * Tomcat configuration and operations know-how inhouse * could migrate to Jetty but need approved change request to do so Cheers, Siegfried Goeschl On 12.11.13 04:54, Alexandre Rafalovitch wrote: Hello, I keep seeing here and on Stack Overflow people trying to deploy Solr to Tomcat. We don't usually ask why, just help when where we can. But the question happens often enough that I am curious. What is the actual business case. Is that because Tomcat is well known? Is it because other apps are running under Tomcat and it is ops' requirement? Is it because Tomcat gives something - to Solr - that Jetty does not? It might be useful to know. Especially, since Solr team is considering making the server part into a black box component. What use cases will that break? So, if somebody runs Solr under Tomcat (or needed to and gave up), let's use this thread to collect this knowledge. Regards, Alex. Personal website: http://www.outerthoughts.com/ LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/alexandrerafalovitch - Time is the quality of nature that keeps events from happening all at once. Lately, it doesn't seem to be working. (Anonymous - via GTD book)
Re: Why do people want to deploy to Tomcat?
On 12.11.13 04:54, Alexandre Rafalovitch wrote: Hello, I keep seeing here and on Stack Overflow people trying to deploy Solr to Tomcat. We don't usually ask why, just help when where we can. But the question happens often enough that I am curious. What is the actual business case. Is that because Tomcat is well known? Is it because other apps are running under Tomcat and it is ops' requirement? Is it because Tomcat gives something - to Solr - that Jetty does not? It might be useful to know. Especially, since Solr team is considering making the server part into a black box component. What use cases will that break? So, if somebody runs Solr under Tomcat (or needed to and gave up), let's use this thread to collect this knowledge. Regards, Alex. What if Solr is a part of a bigger application to be deployed by a party that knows how to deploy tomcat (or any other generic servlet container) and drop .war file in the right place ? Making Solr available only as a stand-alone component that requires separate deployment makes it much harder for the end user, no matter how black-boxy Solr is made. lukasz -- - Lukasz Salwinski PHONE:310-825-1402 UCLA-DOE Institute for Genomics Proteomics FAX:310-206-3914 UCLA, Los AngelesEMAIL: luk...@mbi.ucla.edu -
Re: Why do people want to deploy to Tomcat?
On 11/12/2013 09:28 AM, Lukasz Salwinski wrote: On 12.11.13 04:54, Alexandre Rafalovitch wrote: Hello, I keep seeing here and on Stack Overflow people trying to deploy Solr to Tomcat. We don't usually ask why, just help when where we can. But the question happens often enough that I am curious. What is the actual business case. Is that because Tomcat is well known? Is it because other apps are running under Tomcat and it is ops' requirement? Is it because Tomcat gives something - to Solr - that Jetty does not? It might be useful to know. Especially, since Solr team is considering making the server part into a black box component. What use cases will that break? So, if somebody runs Solr under Tomcat (or needed to and gave up), let's use this thread to collect this knowledge. Regards, Alex. What if Solr is a part of a bigger application to be deployed by a party that knows how to deploy tomcat (or any other generic oops... ^ it should read 'only knows' servlet container) and drop .war file in the right place ? Making Solr available only as a stand-alone component that requires separate deployment makes it much harder for the end user, no matter how black-boxy Solr is made. lukasz lukasz -- - Lukasz Salwinski PHONE:310-825-1402 UCLA-DOE Institute for Genomics Proteomics FAX:310-206-3914 UCLA, Los AngelesEMAIL: luk...@mbi.ucla.edu -
Re: Why do people want to deploy to Tomcat?
In our case, it is because all our other applications are deployed on Tomcat and ops is familiar with the deployment process. We also had customizations that needed to go in, so we inserted our custom JAR into the solr.war's WEB-INF/lib directory, so to ops the process of deploying Solr was (almost, except for schema.xml or solrconfig.xml changes) identical to any of the other apps. But I think if Solr becomes a server with clearly defined extension points (such as dropping your custom JARs into lib/ and custom configuration in conf/solrconfig.xml or similar like it already is) then it will be treated as something other than a webapp and the expectation that it runs on Tomcat will not apply. Just my $0.02... Sujit On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 9:13 AM, Siegfried Goeschl sgoes...@gmx.at wrote: Hi ALex, in my case * ignorance that Tomcat is not fully supported * Tomcat configuration and operations know-how inhouse * could migrate to Jetty but need approved change request to do so Cheers, Siegfried Goeschl On 12.11.13 04:54, Alexandre Rafalovitch wrote: Hello, I keep seeing here and on Stack Overflow people trying to deploy Solr to Tomcat. We don't usually ask why, just help when where we can. But the question happens often enough that I am curious. What is the actual business case. Is that because Tomcat is well known? Is it because other apps are running under Tomcat and it is ops' requirement? Is it because Tomcat gives something - to Solr - that Jetty does not? It might be useful to know. Especially, since Solr team is considering making the server part into a black box component. What use cases will that break? So, if somebody runs Solr under Tomcat (or needed to and gave up), let's use this thread to collect this knowledge. Regards, Alex. Personal website: http://www.outerthoughts.com/ LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/alexandrerafalovitch - Time is the quality of nature that keeps events from happening all at once. Lately, it doesn't seem to be working. (Anonymous - via GTD book)
Re: Why do people want to deploy to Tomcat?
My case is also similar to Sujit Pal but we have jboss6. On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 9:47 AM, Sujit Pal sujit@comcast.net wrote: In our case, it is because all our other applications are deployed on Tomcat and ops is familiar with the deployment process. We also had customizations that needed to go in, so we inserted our custom JAR into the solr.war's WEB-INF/lib directory, so to ops the process of deploying Solr was (almost, except for schema.xml or solrconfig.xml changes) identical to any of the other apps. But I think if Solr becomes a server with clearly defined extension points (such as dropping your custom JARs into lib/ and custom configuration in conf/solrconfig.xml or similar like it already is) then it will be treated as something other than a webapp and the expectation that it runs on Tomcat will not apply. Just my $0.02... Sujit On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 9:13 AM, Siegfried Goeschl sgoes...@gmx.at wrote: Hi ALex, in my case * ignorance that Tomcat is not fully supported * Tomcat configuration and operations know-how inhouse * could migrate to Jetty but need approved change request to do so Cheers, Siegfried Goeschl On 12.11.13 04:54, Alexandre Rafalovitch wrote: Hello, I keep seeing here and on Stack Overflow people trying to deploy Solr to Tomcat. We don't usually ask why, just help when where we can. But the question happens often enough that I am curious. What is the actual business case. Is that because Tomcat is well known? Is it because other apps are running under Tomcat and it is ops' requirement? Is it because Tomcat gives something - to Solr - that Jetty does not? It might be useful to know. Especially, since Solr team is considering making the server part into a black box component. What use cases will that break? So, if somebody runs Solr under Tomcat (or needed to and gave up), let's use this thread to collect this knowledge. Regards, Alex. Personal website: http://www.outerthoughts.com/ LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/alexandrerafalovitch - Time is the quality of nature that keeps events from happening all at once. Lately, it doesn't seem to be working. (Anonymous - via GTD book)
Why do people want to deploy to Tomcat?
Hello, I keep seeing here and on Stack Overflow people trying to deploy Solr to Tomcat. We don't usually ask why, just help when where we can. But the question happens often enough that I am curious. What is the actual business case. Is that because Tomcat is well known? Is it because other apps are running under Tomcat and it is ops' requirement? Is it because Tomcat gives something - to Solr - that Jetty does not? It might be useful to know. Especially, since Solr team is considering making the server part into a black box component. What use cases will that break? So, if somebody runs Solr under Tomcat (or needed to and gave up), let's use this thread to collect this knowledge. Regards, Alex. Personal website: http://www.outerthoughts.com/ LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/alexandrerafalovitch - Time is the quality of nature that keeps events from happening all at once. Lately, it doesn't seem to be working. (Anonymous - via GTD book)
