Re: CPVC EQ Bracing - 2 hole straps and another question

[cw bamford via Sprinklerforum]

Ken W. did this article a couple years ago.  Afocn/Anvil and Tolco/Eaton
have some braces.

https://sprinklerage.com/seismic-bracing-of-cpvc-pipe/

"ABOUT THE AUTHOR: Ken Wagoner, C.F.P.E., C.W.B.S.P, S.E.T. "
Seismic Bracing of CPVC Pipe
August 29, 2018

please note comments:
IMPORTANT NOTICE: The article and its content is not a Formal
Interpretation issued pursuant to NFPA Regulations. Any opinion expressed
is the personal opinion of the author and presenter and does not
necessarily present the official position of the NFPA and its Technical
Committee




On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 11:12 AM J H via Sprinklerforum <
sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> wrote:

> Hello,
> I thought that two hole straps used to secure CPVC acted as seismic
> bracing? I don't know where I've heard that and couldn't find anything in
> the standard. Is this correct?
>
> Also, if you have a 1"x8'-6" riser to a single horizontal sidewall
> sprinkler would that technically be an 'armover' and not require seismic or
> would that fall under being a riser requiring seismic bracing?
>
> Thanks,
> JH
>
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Re: CPVC EQ Bracing - 2 hole straps and another question

[John Denhardt via Sprinklerforum]

Scott makes a great point.  CPVC piping has to be free to move.

Thanks,
John

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On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 3:42 PM Scott Futrell via Sprinklerforum <
sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> wrote:

> Just remember to allow for thermal expansion and contraction. It can get
> very ugly if the CPVC is restrained and thermal expansion and contraction
> has not been appropriately allowed for. This applies when a building is
> warm in the summer during construction and then air conditioning is turned
> on as well as heating and cold weather changes.
>
> Scott
>
> Office: (763) 425-1001 x 2
> Cell: (612) 759-5556
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Sprinklerforum  On
> Behalf Of Bob Knight via Sprinklerforum
> Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2020 2:36 PM
> To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
> Cc: Bob Knight 
> Subject: RE: CPVC EQ Bracing - 2 hole straps and another question
>
> Personally, I would provide the restraint and be done.  As Travis said,
> apply the less than 6" criteria and you should be good with the CPVC
> hangers.
>
> 9.3.5.8.5   Four-way bracing shall not be required where risers penetrate
> intermediate floors in multistory buildings where the clearance does not
> exceed the limits of 9.3.4.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Bob Knight, CET III
> Fire by Knight, LLC
> 208-318-3057
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:
> sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org]
> On Behalf Of J H via Sprinklerforum
> Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2020 1:24 PM
> To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
> Cc: J H
> Subject: Re: CPVC EQ Bracing - 2 hole straps and another question
>
> So the sidewall sprinklers for the upper floor of this project are being
> fed from the system below due to freezing concerns at the upper level. Of
> course the line will be strapped to the wall framing on it's way up and so
> according to the definitions if I'm supplying a single sprinkler it would
> be a 'sprig' and just require a two-hole strap on the way up (restraint)
> while a couple of spots on the project will feed two sprinklers from one
> tap off the lower floor - I'm guessing that in the case of more than two
> sprinklers it's no longer a 'sprig' and would be a riser and would require
> a 4-way brace. Sound about right?
>
>
> <
> https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campai
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> On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 1:04 PM Bob Knight via Sprinklerforum <
> sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> wrote:
>
> > Sprigs do not require sway bracing, but there is this: 9.3.6.6  Sprigs
> > 4 ft  or  longer  shall  be  restrained against lateral movement.
> >
> >
> > Thank you,
> >
> > Bob Knight, CET III
> > Fire by Knight, LLC
> > 208-318-3057
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:
> > sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org]
> > On Behalf Of Matthew J Willis via Sprinklerforum
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2020 12:28 PM
> > To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
> > Cc: Matthew J Willis
> > Subject: RE: CPVC EQ Bracing - 2 hole straps and another question
> >
> > To my knowledge, the 2 hole strap is listed as a hanger only. Not

Re: CPVC EQ Bracing - 2 hole straps and another question

[Jeff Normand via Sprinklerforum]

I would hope that Tolco or Afcon or anyone else making those straps would
get them listed for seismic. It seems like such small seismic loads.

On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 7:09 PM J H via Sprinklerforum <
sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> wrote:

> Hello,
> I thought that two hole straps used to secure CPVC acted as seismic
> bracing? I don't know where I've heard that and couldn't find anything in
> the standard. Is this correct?
>
> Also, if you have a 1"x8'-6" riser to a single horizontal sidewall
> sprinkler would that technically be an 'armover' and not require seismic or
> would that fall under being a riser requiring seismic bracing?
>
> Thanks,
> JH
>
> <
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RE: CPVC EQ Bracing - 2 hole straps and another question

[Scott Futrell via Sprinklerforum]

Just remember to allow for thermal expansion and contraction. It can get very 
ugly if the CPVC is restrained and thermal expansion and contraction has not 
been appropriately allowed for. This applies when a building is warm in the 
summer during construction and then air conditioning is turned on as well as 
heating and cold weather changes.

Scott
 
Office: (763) 425-1001 x 2
Cell: (612) 759-5556

-Original Message-
From: Sprinklerforum  On Behalf 
Of Bob Knight via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2020 2:36 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Cc: Bob Knight 
Subject: RE: CPVC EQ Bracing - 2 hole straps and another question

Personally, I would provide the restraint and be done.  As Travis said, apply 
the less than 6" criteria and you should be good with the CPVC hangers.

9.3.5.8.5   Four-way bracing shall not be required where risers penetrate
intermediate floors in multistory buildings where the clearance does not exceed 
the limits of 9.3.4.

Thank you,

Bob Knight, CET III
Fire by Knight, LLC
208-318-3057


-Original Message-
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org]
On Behalf Of J H via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2020 1:24 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Cc: J H
Subject: Re: CPVC EQ Bracing - 2 hole straps and another question

So the sidewall sprinklers for the upper floor of this project are being fed 
from the system below due to freezing concerns at the upper level. Of course 
the line will be strapped to the wall framing on it's way up and so according 
to the definitions if I'm supplying a single sprinkler it would be a 'sprig' 
and just require a two-hole strap on the way up (restraint) while a couple of 
spots on the project will feed two sprinklers from one tap off the lower floor 
- I'm guessing that in the case of more than two sprinklers it's no longer a 
'sprig' and would be a riser and would require a 4-way brace. Sound about right?


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On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 1:04 PM Bob Knight via Sprinklerforum < 
sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> wrote:

> Sprigs do not require sway bracing, but there is this: 9.3.6.6  Sprigs  
> 4 ft  or  longer  shall  be  restrained against lateral movement.
>
>
> Thank you,
>
> Bob Knight, CET III
> Fire by Knight, LLC
> 208-318-3057
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:
> sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org]
> On Behalf Of Matthew J Willis via Sprinklerforum
> Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2020 12:28 PM
> To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
> Cc: Matthew J Willis
> Subject: RE: CPVC EQ Bracing - 2 hole straps and another question
>
> To my knowledge, the 2 hole strap is listed as a hanger only. Not for 
> seismic.
>
> The second question is a good one.
> I love Chapter 3, especially for seismic.
>
> Check 3.5.11 in the 2016 for a "Sprig".
>
> The standard mandates riser for 4 way if they exceed 3'-0".
>
> Riser Nipples, the piece between a Cross Main and Branchline, 3.5.9, 
> are excluded.
>
> 3.5.10 is for "Risers".
>
> Given that the definition of a sprig, seems different than Riser, you 
> may have a point.
>
> But Riser is pretty broad.
>
> R/
> Matt
>
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-----
> From: Sprinklerforum  
> On Behalf Of J H via Sprinklerforum
> Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2020 12:13 PM
> To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
> Cc: J H 
> Subject: CPVC EQ Bracing - 2 hole straps and another question
>
> Hello,
> I thought that two hole straps used to secure CPVC acted as seismic 
> bracing?
> I don't know where I've heard that and couldn't find anything in the 
> standard. Is this correct?
>
> Also, if you have a 1"x8'-6" riser to a single horizontal sidewall 
> sprinkler would that technically be an 'armover' and not require 
> seismic or would that fall under being a riser requiring seismic 
> bracing?
>
> Thanks,
> JH
>
> <
>
https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campai
> gn=sig-email_content=webmail_term=icon
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RE: CPVC EQ Bracing - 2 hole straps and another question

[Bob Knight via Sprinklerforum]

Personally, I would provide the restraint and be done.  As Travis said,
apply the less than 6" criteria and you should be good with the CPVC
hangers.

9.3.5.8.5   Four-way bracing shall not be required where risers penetrate
intermediate floors in multistory buildings where
the clearance does not exceed the limits of 9.3.4.

Thank you,

Bob Knight, CET III
Fire by Knight, LLC
208-318-3057


-Original Message-
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org]
On Behalf Of J H via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2020 1:24 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Cc: J H
Subject: Re: CPVC EQ Bracing - 2 hole straps and another question

So the sidewall sprinklers for the upper floor of this project are being
fed from the system below due to freezing concerns at the upper level. Of
course the line will be strapped to the wall framing on it's way up and so
according to the definitions if I'm supplying a single sprinkler it would
be a 'sprig' and just require a two-hole strap on the way up (restraint)
while a couple of spots on the project will feed two sprinklers from one
tap off the lower floor - I'm guessing that in the case of more than two
sprinklers it's no longer a 'sprig' and would be a riser and would require
a 4-way brace. Sound about right?


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On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 1:04 PM Bob Knight via Sprinklerforum <
sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> wrote:

> Sprigs do not require sway bracing, but there is this: 9.3.6.6  Sprigs  4
> ft  or  longer  shall  be  restrained against lateral movement.
>
>
> Thank you,
>
> Bob Knight, CET III
> Fire by Knight, LLC
> 208-318-3057
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:
> sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org]
> On Behalf Of Matthew J Willis via Sprinklerforum
> Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2020 12:28 PM
> To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
> Cc: Matthew J Willis
> Subject: RE: CPVC EQ Bracing - 2 hole straps and another question
>
> To my knowledge, the 2 hole strap is listed as a hanger only. Not for
> seismic.
>
> The second question is a good one.
> I love Chapter 3, especially for seismic.
>
> Check 3.5.11 in the 2016 for a "Sprig".
>
> The standard mandates riser for 4 way if they exceed 3'-0".
>
> Riser Nipples, the piece between a Cross Main and Branchline, 3.5.9, are
> excluded.
>
> 3.5.10 is for "Risers".
>
> Given that the definition of a sprig, seems different than Riser, you may
> have a point.
>
> But Riser is pretty broad.
>
> R/
> Matt
>
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-----
> From: Sprinklerforum  On
> Behalf Of J H via Sprinklerforum
> Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2020 12:13 PM
> To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
> Cc: J H 
> Subject: CPVC EQ Bracing - 2 hole straps and another question
>
> Hello,
> I thought that two hole straps used to secure CPVC acted as seismic
> bracing?
> I don't know where I've heard that and couldn't find anything in the
> standard. Is this correct?
>
> Also, if you have a 1"x8'-6" riser to a single horizontal sidewall
> sprinkler
> would that technically be an 'armover' and not require seismic or would
> that
> fall under being a riser requiring seismic bracing?
>
> Thanks,
> JH
>
> <
>
https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campai
> gn=sig-email_content=webmail_term=icon
>
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Re: CPVC EQ Bracing - 2 hole straps and another question

[J H via Sprinklerforum]

So the sidewall sprinklers for the upper floor of this project are being
fed from the system below due to freezing concerns at the upper level. Of
course the line will be strapped to the wall framing on it's way up and so
according to the definitions if I'm supplying a single sprinkler it would
be a 'sprig' and just require a two-hole strap on the way up (restraint)
while a couple of spots on the project will feed two sprinklers from one
tap off the lower floor - I'm guessing that in the case of more than two
sprinklers it's no longer a 'sprig' and would be a riser and would require
a 4-way brace. Sound about right?


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On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 1:04 PM Bob Knight via Sprinklerforum <
sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> wrote:

> Sprigs do not require sway bracing, but there is this: 9.3.6.6  Sprigs  4
> ft  or  longer  shall  be  restrained against lateral movement.
>
>
> Thank you,
>
> Bob Knight, CET III
> Fire by Knight, LLC
> 208-318-3057
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:
> sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org]
> On Behalf Of Matthew J Willis via Sprinklerforum
> Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2020 12:28 PM
> To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
> Cc: Matthew J Willis
> Subject: RE: CPVC EQ Bracing - 2 hole straps and another question
>
> To my knowledge, the 2 hole strap is listed as a hanger only. Not for
> seismic.
>
> The second question is a good one.
> I love Chapter 3, especially for seismic.
>
> Check 3.5.11 in the 2016 for a "Sprig".
>
> The standard mandates riser for 4 way if they exceed 3'-0".
>
> Riser Nipples, the piece between a Cross Main and Branchline, 3.5.9, are
> excluded.
>
> 3.5.10 is for "Risers".
>
> Given that the definition of a sprig, seems different than Riser, you may
> have a point.
>
> But Riser is pretty broad.
>
> R/
> Matt
>
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-----
> From: Sprinklerforum  On
> Behalf Of J H via Sprinklerforum
> Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2020 12:13 PM
> To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
> Cc: J H 
> Subject: CPVC EQ Bracing - 2 hole straps and another question
>
> Hello,
> I thought that two hole straps used to secure CPVC acted as seismic
> bracing?
> I don't know where I've heard that and couldn't find anything in the
> standard. Is this correct?
>
> Also, if you have a 1"x8'-6" riser to a single horizontal sidewall
> sprinkler
> would that technically be an 'armover' and not require seismic or would
> that
> fall under being a riser requiring seismic bracing?
>
> Thanks,
> JH
>
> <
> https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campai
> gn=sig-email_content=webmail_term=icon
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Re: CPVC EQ Bracing - 2 hole straps and another question

[Travis Mack via Sprinklerforum]

It is a hanger. But, if your Cp is <0.5 then you can use that you are 6” from 
top of pipe to point of attachment to structure to eliminate lateral brace and 
branch line restraint. You will still need longitudinal bracing. There are no 
listed longitudinal so you have to use a lateral on a short nipple to be your 
longitudinal.

Sprigs are not risers. But, you have a sprig >48” so it will need restraint. 
Again, your strap may eliminate the restraint requirement.


Travis Mack, CFPS, CWBSP, RME-G, SET
Engineering Manager
MFP Design
3356 E Vallejo Ct
Gilbert, AZ 85298
NEW EXTENSION: 480-505-9271 ext. 700
NEW MOBILE: 480-272-2471
travis.m...@mfpdesign.com
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Send large files to us via: https://www.hightail.com/u/MFPDesign
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/travismack
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From: Sprinklerforum  on behalf 
of Matthew J Willis via Sprinklerforum 
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2020 12:27:54 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org 

Cc: Matthew J Willis 
Subject: RE: CPVC EQ Bracing - 2 hole straps and another question

To my knowledge, the 2 hole strap is listed as a hanger only. Not for seismic.

The second question is a good one.
I love Chapter 3, especially for seismic.

Check 3.5.11 in the 2016 for a "Sprig".

The standard mandates riser for 4 way if they exceed 3'-0".

Riser Nipples, the piece between a Cross Main and Branchline, 3.5.9, are 
excluded.

3.5.10 is for "Risers".

Given that the definition of a sprig, seems different than Riser, you may have 
a point.

But Riser is pretty broad.

R/
Matt





-Original Message-
From: Sprinklerforum  On Behalf 
Of J H via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2020 12:13 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Cc: J H 
Subject: CPVC EQ Bracing - 2 hole straps and another question

Hello,
I thought that two hole straps used to secure CPVC acted as seismic bracing? I 
don't know where I've heard that and couldn't find anything in the standard. Is 
this correct?

Also, if you have a 1"x8'-6" riser to a single horizontal sidewall sprinkler 
would that technically be an 'armover' and not require seismic or would that 
fall under being a riser requiring seismic bracing?

Thanks,
JH

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RE: CPVC EQ Bracing - 2 hole straps and another question

[Bob Knight via Sprinklerforum]

Sprigs do not require sway bracing, but there is this: 9.3.6.6  Sprigs  4
ft  or  longer  shall  be  restrained against lateral movement.


Thank you,

Bob Knight, CET III
Fire by Knight, LLC
208-318-3057


-Original Message-
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org]
On Behalf Of Matthew J Willis via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2020 12:28 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Cc: Matthew J Willis
Subject: RE: CPVC EQ Bracing - 2 hole straps and another question

To my knowledge, the 2 hole strap is listed as a hanger only. Not for
seismic.

The second question is a good one.
I love Chapter 3, especially for seismic.

Check 3.5.11 in the 2016 for a "Sprig".

The standard mandates riser for 4 way if they exceed 3'-0".

Riser Nipples, the piece between a Cross Main and Branchline, 3.5.9, are
excluded.

3.5.10 is for "Risers".

Given that the definition of a sprig, seems different than Riser, you may
have a point.

But Riser is pretty broad.

R/
Matt





-Original Message-
From: Sprinklerforum  On
Behalf Of J H via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2020 12:13 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Cc: J H 
Subject: CPVC EQ Bracing - 2 hole straps and another question

Hello,
I thought that two hole straps used to secure CPVC acted as seismic bracing?
I don't know where I've heard that and couldn't find anything in the
standard. Is this correct?

Also, if you have a 1"x8'-6" riser to a single horizontal sidewall sprinkler
would that technically be an 'armover' and not require seismic or would that
fall under being a riser requiring seismic bracing?

Thanks,
JH

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gn=sig-email_content=webmail_term=icon>
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RE: CPVC EQ Bracing - 2 hole straps and another question

[Matthew J Willis via Sprinklerforum]

To my knowledge, the 2 hole strap is listed as a hanger only. Not for seismic.

The second question is a good one.
I love Chapter 3, especially for seismic.

Check 3.5.11 in the 2016 for a "Sprig".

The standard mandates riser for 4 way if they exceed 3'-0".

Riser Nipples, the piece between a Cross Main and Branchline, 3.5.9, are 
excluded.

3.5.10 is for "Risers".

Given that the definition of a sprig, seems different than Riser, you may have 
a point.

But Riser is pretty broad.

R/
Matt





-Original Message-
From: Sprinklerforum  On Behalf 
Of J H via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2020 12:13 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Cc: J H 
Subject: CPVC EQ Bracing - 2 hole straps and another question

Hello,
I thought that two hole straps used to secure CPVC acted as seismic bracing? I 
don't know where I've heard that and couldn't find anything in the standard. Is 
this correct?

Also, if you have a 1"x8'-6" riser to a single horizontal sidewall sprinkler 
would that technically be an 'armover' and not require seismic or would that 
fall under being a riser requiring seismic bracing?

Thanks,
JH

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CPVC EQ Bracing - 2 hole straps and another question

[J H via Sprinklerforum]

Hello,
I thought that two hole straps used to secure CPVC acted as seismic
bracing? I don't know where I've heard that and couldn't find anything in
the standard. Is this correct?

Also, if you have a 1"x8'-6" riser to a single horizontal sidewall
sprinkler would that technically be an 'armover' and not require seismic or
would that fall under being a riser requiring seismic bracing?

Thanks,
JH


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