Re: committers attention - just a few moments...

[Ted Husted]

Arron Bates wrote:
Too unstable for 1.1 so close to release, but too important to let it slip
for over a year for it to come out.
I agree that you should apply the patch if you are comfortable with it 
yourself, since working on Tomcat 4.1.18 is important to our community.

I also very sure that people who use the Nested taglib *do* consider it 
a favorite component, and that there will be *a lot* of traffic if it 
doesn't work properly =:>

Meanwhile, you're right in thinking that this is a case where it's 
better to float a proposal for patch first and commit it second.  On 
occaision, it's easier to ask for permission than forgiveness =:0)

But, I don't think it will be so long before Struts 1.2. In fact, as 
soon as 1.1 ships, I'd like to do just a few of the straggling things, 
like the resources migration, and get 1.2 out right away.

I'm also convinced that we need to give significant subsystems like 
Struts-EL, Nested, Struts-JSP (when it happens), Tiles, and the 
Validator, their own release cycles. So that Struts becomes more like 
the Commons and less like Turbine.

-T.

--
Ted Husted,
Struts in Action 
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RE: committers attention - just a few moments...

[David Morris]

Arron,

My vote would be to move ahead with the changes. I 
have not reviewed the changes, but it looked like 
there might be some missmatched resets that would 
cause problems in the latest RC. I used the nested 
tags extensively on several sites and would rather 
deal with minor bugs/patches than sporadic problems.

Somehow I missed your message about a nested patch 
and just downloaded it this evening. I tested your 
new jar against several sites and came up with one 
problem. I have not spent the time to debug this 
properly, and I am using a nightly build from a 
couple of weeks ago, but it appears that there may be 
a problem. I have a fairly simple debugging page 
nested tags to display values from the JVM. 

I will download and build the latest nightly and 
retest. If the problem is still there I will post 
another message and send you that very simple page 
that appears to be failing. I will also try to test 
against a couple of other installations that use 
nested tags.

David Morris 

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 02/25/03 16:42 PM >>>
> > Failing responses from people who are actually familiar with the
nested
> > tags and your changes, then I think you'll just have to use your own
> > judgment.  I had to make a similar decision recently wrt the
Struts-EL
> > tags.  Test your changes as much as possible, and try to get some
> > feedback from people who are using your tags.  If you think it's
safe to
> > commit, then do it (but don't quote me on that :) ).
> >
> > David
> 
> I think David articulates a rational approach.  If you think the fix
for
> nested tags should go in (in spite of being a larger patch than we
might
> be normally comfortable with), and you've tested it as much as you
can,
> I'm certainly not going to argue.  Worst case - we do an RC2 with this
fix
> to give the world one more shot at proving it's still got a problem.
> 
> Craig
> 

This is the feedback I'm after.

Had I simply committed the patch that is on the big side, I would have
been
trounced. Especially seeing that time hasn't let me play apache
recently, to
then walk in and make such a large play (on RC1 day no less). Wouldn't
have
gone over well I imagine.


Arron.

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RE: committers attention - just a few moments...

[Arron Bates]

> > Failing responses from people who are actually familiar with the nested
> > tags and your changes, then I think you'll just have to use your own
> > judgment.  I had to make a similar decision recently wrt the Struts-EL
> > tags.  Test your changes as much as possible, and try to get some
> > feedback from people who are using your tags.  If you think it's safe to
> > commit, then do it (but don't quote me on that :) ).
> >
> > David
> 
> I think David articulates a rational approach.  If you think the fix for
> nested tags should go in (in spite of being a larger patch than we might
> be normally comfortable with), and you've tested it as much as you can,
> I'm certainly not going to argue.  Worst case - we do an RC2 with this fix
> to give the world one more shot at proving it's still got a problem.
> 
> Craig
> 

This is the feedback I'm after.

Had I simply committed the patch that is on the big side, I would have been
trounced. Especially seeing that time hasn't let me play apache recently, to
then walk in and make such a large play (on RC1 day no less). Wouldn't have
gone over well I imagine.


Arron.


BTW: So far, none of the early adopters have said their apps have broken with
the new changes.


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RE: committers attention - just a few moments...

[David Graham]

I also agree with David.  The responses I've seen to your fix indicate that 
it worked.  I think it would be appropriate to commit the fixes now for 
release in 1.1.  I think an RC2 that included your fix would be appropriate 
after we deal with the rest of the open bugs on RC1.

David



From: "Karr, David" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: "Struts Developers List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Struts Developers List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: committers attention - just a few moments...
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 15:06:52 -0800
Failing responses from people who are actually familiar with the nested
tags and your changes, then I think you'll just have to use your own
judgment.  I had to make a similar decision recently wrt the Struts-EL
tags.  Test your changes as much as possible, and try to get some
feedback from people who are using your tags.  If you think it's safe to
commit, then do it (but don't quote me on that :) ).
> -Original Message-
> From: Arron Bates [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 3:03 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: committers attention - just a few moments...
>
> Peoples,
>
> I'm waiting on a call in the post below about the nested tags. I know
> they're
> not everyone's favorite component, but I do need committer attention
to
> form
> the game plan as it's not the typical "bug fix".
>
> It's hard to form a consensus opinion on the one response I have.
>
> Copied below for convenience.
>
>
> Arron.
>
>
>
> Original
> Post___
>

--
> --
>
> Defenders of the faith,
>
> Just a small one to say the problem of of not being able to run the
nested
> tag
> apps in Tomcat 4.1.18's funky Jasper engine has been tackled.
>
> I'd commit it, but the codebase being under release conditions, and
for
> the
> fact that it's no simple few line "bug fix". The internals have
changed to
> leverage the request object more completely (was originally just used
to
> enable the recursive JSP markup). The NestedPropertyHelper has been
gutted
> and
> mostly re-implemented, and all the nested tags have been touched to
> accomodate the change. Instead of walking the tag hierarchy, all the
child
> tags now pick up on the nested reference within the request object
> directly.
> The property handling is now more pessimistic, and resets everything
it
> touches. All effort was made to respect all the minor changes the tags
> have
> undergone in fixing past bugs.
>
> The fact that most of it has changed means that I don't want it in
this
> release, but the fact that it allows people to deploy in the latest
tomcat
> release is important, something blocking an upgrade path for a lot of
> people.
>
> What about, once the release is out, then the update to the tags
> committed,
> and release a bug-fix release for the new nested tags (1.1.1)?... kind
of
> like
> 1.0.2 was to 1.0.1?...
>
> Too unstable for 1.1 so close to release, but too important to let it
slip
> for
> over a year for it to come out.
>
> Needless to say it works on my apps :), but I'm asking the nested tags
> user
> base to jump onto it and give it a test run to see if it works for
them.
> For
> those nesters looking on, there's a jar at...
>
>http://www.keyboardmonkey.com/downloads/km-nested-v2.jar
>
>  ...just throw it into the WEB-INF/lib directory, your classloader
should
> pick them up before struts.jar. If not, delete the tags from
struts.jar
> and
> give it another bash.
>
> Anyways, just thought I'd put it forward.
>
> Arron.
>
>
>
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RE: committers attention - just a few moments...

[Craig R. McClanahan]

On Tue, 25 Feb 2003, Karr, David wrote:

> Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 15:06:52 -0800
> From: "Karr, David" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Reply-To: Struts Developers List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: Struts Developers List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: RE: committers attention - just a few moments...
>
> Failing responses from people who are actually familiar with the nested
> tags and your changes, then I think you'll just have to use your own
> judgment.  I had to make a similar decision recently wrt the Struts-EL
> tags.  Test your changes as much as possible, and try to get some
> feedback from people who are using your tags.  If you think it's safe to
> commit, then do it (but don't quote me on that :) ).
>

I think David articulates a rational approach.  If you think the fix for
nested tags should go in (in spite of being a larger patch than we might
be normally comfortable with), and you've tested it as much as you can,
I'm certainly not going to argue.  Worst case - we do an RC2 with this fix
to give the world one more shot at proving it's still got a problem.

Craig


> > -Original Message-
> > From: Arron Bates [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 3:03 PM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: committers attention - just a few moments...
> >
> > Peoples,
> >
> > I'm waiting on a call in the post below about the nested tags. I know
> > they're
> > not everyone's favorite component, but I do need committer attention
> to
> > form
> > the game plan as it's not the typical "bug fix".
> >
> > It's hard to form a consensus opinion on the one response I have.
> >
> > Copied below for convenience.
> >
> >
> > Arron.
> >
> >
> >
> > Original
> > Post___
> >
> 
> --
> > --
> >
> > Defenders of the faith,
> >
> > Just a small one to say the problem of of not being able to run the
> nested
> > tag
> > apps in Tomcat 4.1.18's funky Jasper engine has been tackled.
> >
> > I'd commit it, but the codebase being under release conditions, and
> for
> > the
> > fact that it's no simple few line "bug fix". The internals have
> changed to
> > leverage the request object more completely (was originally just used
> to
> > enable the recursive JSP markup). The NestedPropertyHelper has been
> gutted
> > and
> > mostly re-implemented, and all the nested tags have been touched to
> > accomodate the change. Instead of walking the tag hierarchy, all the
> child
> > tags now pick up on the nested reference within the request object
> > directly.
> > The property handling is now more pessimistic, and resets everything
> it
> > touches. All effort was made to respect all the minor changes the tags
> > have
> > undergone in fixing past bugs.
> >
> > The fact that most of it has changed means that I don't want it in
> this
> > release, but the fact that it allows people to deploy in the latest
> tomcat
> > release is important, something blocking an upgrade path for a lot of
> > people.
> >
> > What about, once the release is out, then the update to the tags
> > committed,
> > and release a bug-fix release for the new nested tags (1.1.1)?... kind
> of
> > like
> > 1.0.2 was to 1.0.1?...
> >
> > Too unstable for 1.1 so close to release, but too important to let it
> slip
> > for
> > over a year for it to come out.
> >
> > Needless to say it works on my apps :), but I'm asking the nested tags
> > user
> > base to jump onto it and give it a test run to see if it works for
> them.
> > For
> > those nesters looking on, there's a jar at...
> >
> >http://www.keyboardmonkey.com/downloads/km-nested-v2.jar
> >
> >  ...just throw it into the WEB-INF/lib directory, your classloader
> should
> > pick them up before struts.jar. If not, delete the tags from
> struts.jar
> > and
> > give it another bash.
> >
> > Anyways, just thought I'd put it forward.
> >
> > Arron.
> >
> >
> >
> > -
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
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>
>

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RE: committers attention - just a few moments...

[Karr, David]

Failing responses from people who are actually familiar with the nested
tags and your changes, then I think you'll just have to use your own
judgment.  I had to make a similar decision recently wrt the Struts-EL
tags.  Test your changes as much as possible, and try to get some
feedback from people who are using your tags.  If you think it's safe to
commit, then do it (but don't quote me on that :) ).

> -Original Message-
> From: Arron Bates [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 3:03 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: committers attention - just a few moments...
> 
> Peoples,
> 
> I'm waiting on a call in the post below about the nested tags. I know
> they're
> not everyone's favorite component, but I do need committer attention
to
> form
> the game plan as it's not the typical "bug fix".
> 
> It's hard to form a consensus opinion on the one response I have.
> 
> Copied below for convenience.
> 
> 
> Arron.
> 
> 
> 
> Original
> Post___
>

--
> --
> 
> Defenders of the faith,
> 
> Just a small one to say the problem of of not being able to run the
nested
> tag
> apps in Tomcat 4.1.18's funky Jasper engine has been tackled.
> 
> I'd commit it, but the codebase being under release conditions, and
for
> the
> fact that it's no simple few line "bug fix". The internals have
changed to
> leverage the request object more completely (was originally just used
to
> enable the recursive JSP markup). The NestedPropertyHelper has been
gutted
> and
> mostly re-implemented, and all the nested tags have been touched to
> accomodate the change. Instead of walking the tag hierarchy, all the
child
> tags now pick up on the nested reference within the request object
> directly.
> The property handling is now more pessimistic, and resets everything
it
> touches. All effort was made to respect all the minor changes the tags
> have
> undergone in fixing past bugs.
> 
> The fact that most of it has changed means that I don't want it in
this
> release, but the fact that it allows people to deploy in the latest
tomcat
> release is important, something blocking an upgrade path for a lot of
> people.
> 
> What about, once the release is out, then the update to the tags
> committed,
> and release a bug-fix release for the new nested tags (1.1.1)?... kind
of
> like
> 1.0.2 was to 1.0.1?...
> 
> Too unstable for 1.1 so close to release, but too important to let it
slip
> for
> over a year for it to come out.
> 
> Needless to say it works on my apps :), but I'm asking the nested tags
> user
> base to jump onto it and give it a test run to see if it works for
them.
> For
> those nesters looking on, there's a jar at...
> 
>http://www.keyboardmonkey.com/downloads/km-nested-v2.jar
> 
>  ...just throw it into the WEB-INF/lib directory, your classloader
should
> pick them up before struts.jar. If not, delete the tags from
struts.jar
> and
> give it another bash.
> 
> Anyways, just thought I'd put it forward.
> 
> Arron.
> 
> 
> 
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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committers attention - just a few moments...

[Arron Bates]

Peoples,

I'm waiting on a call in the post below about the nested tags. I know they're
not everyone's favorite component, but I do need committer attention to form
the game plan as it's not the typical "bug fix".

It's hard to form a consensus opinion on the one response I have.

Copied below for convenience.


Arron.



Original Post___


Defenders of the faith,

Just a small one to say the problem of of not being able to run the nested
tag
apps in Tomcat 4.1.18's funky Jasper engine has been tackled.

I'd commit it, but the codebase being under release conditions, and for the
fact that it's no simple few line "bug fix". The internals have changed to
leverage the request object more completely (was originally just used to
enable the recursive JSP markup). The NestedPropertyHelper has been gutted
and
mostly re-implemented, and all the nested tags have been touched to
accomodate the change. Instead of walking the tag hierarchy, all the child
tags now pick up on the nested reference within the request object directly.
The property handling is now more pessimistic, and resets everything it
touches. All effort was made to respect all the minor changes the tags have
undergone in fixing past bugs.

The fact that most of it has changed means that I don't want it in this
release, but the fact that it allows people to deploy in the latest tomcat
release is important, something blocking an upgrade path for a lot of
people.

What about, once the release is out, then the update to the tags committed,
and release a bug-fix release for the new nested tags (1.1.1)?... kind of
like
1.0.2 was to 1.0.1?...

Too unstable for 1.1 so close to release, but too important to let it slip
for
over a year for it to come out.

Needless to say it works on my apps :), but I'm asking the nested tags user
base to jump onto it and give it a test run to see if it works for them. For
those nesters looking on, there's a jar at...
   
   http://www.keyboardmonkey.com/downloads/km-nested-v2.jar

 ...just throw it into the WEB-INF/lib directory, your classloader should
pick them up before struts.jar. If not, delete the tags from struts.jar and
give it another bash.

Anyways, just thought I'd put it forward.

Arron.



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