[freenet-support] a dead horse and other animals
I've been getting TFE fine, but I haven't been able to load FIND for almost a week. The lists are pretty silent lately, as well. Conspiracy theory, anyone? No, the explanation is simply this, that many active (meaning formerly inserting/posting) Freenetters have gone over to i2p. Not only do you see icons such as thetower guy there, but a lot of other ex-freenetters, some of which still didn't leave Freenet completely (like me). I've been pointing that out in the irc chan too, but I got slapped on the wrist for it. aparently, saying the obvious is 'not done'. For the first time, Freenet has some serious competition, and it's not performing well, speaking in a darwinian sense. As yet, it doesn't seem to affect finances that much, but once you start to lose interest and people go to another (promising) I2P, that can't be far away. I have said many times before that there is a lack of progress, or at least a sense of progress, certainly for the ordinary freenet user (and, in fact, for the end-user there HAS been little progress). The development cycle of Freenet is NOT normal, not even for a new-technology-beta. It seems that Freenet is performing better...but compared to what? To how it was a year ago? No doubt, back then it was totally bork. It's a pitty we don't have performance testing logs, but I suspect that it's now about as good as it was 2 years ago...hmmm. Yesyes, I know a lot of technological goodies have been added, but that doesn't interest Joe Doe: he just wants it to work, and good. That means, primarely; finding something he wants, and d/l it fast, and, seen the fact it's freenet, in a safe manner. Freenet doesn't do all that. Now, granted, though I have been pleasantly surprised, neither does I2P, as yet. But the difference is, they are working 4 months on it, and have come a long way and they *are* improving dramatically. With that pace they are gaining support rapidly, as already can be seen (and that's why it has suddenly become more quiet on the posts, and Freesites are less and less being updated). The moment the DHT is ready, Freenet will not offer anything en plus, practically speaking. Now, I'm ambigous about this all. In theory, competition is a good thing...only it doesn't seem to have any impact, here. It's mostly being ignored, and when someone points it out, it's not welcomed. Furthermore, I don't think two main anonymity projects can be maintained by the OSS crowd, at least not the way it is done now. what is taken by one is at the loss of the other one, and vice versa, me thinks. That's why, in a former post, I tried to stimulate both parties to try to merge their technology and forces...but to no apparent avail. Is it that difficult to see that both projects have specific advantages, that would or at least could benefit both? Geez. Freenet has potential, it still has, but it just lays there as a dead horse, and i2p is has great ease-to-use promise, but still has to prove some basic things, like being able to scale (not that Freenet is out of the loop with that one neither). Anyways, when I pointed this out, I got the remark I was bulshitting, because I didn't even run a node anymore. Which was true, because I told so: last stable node I ran was one or two months ago. (On a positive sidenote, Ian claimed he didn't think I *really* was a troll ;-). Well, always being reasonable, I thought there was a point to it; it was time to see how this latest node was - again- going to be fanfuckingtastic. So I went for it. Fantastic as freenet may be nowadays, I hardly started or I got an error. First of all, I had to get rid of my unstable node. So I did. then I tried the download on the d/lpage of freenet: to no avail. It couldn't find the JVM. There WAS a JVM on it, rest assured though. It worked perfectly with anything else, including the former unstable node, even. But the installer said there wsn't any JVM on my box, period. Now, Ian always claims I don't say anything worthwhile, so I want it to be noted that I say now, very clearly, that the installer is bugged. There is definitaly something wrong with it. Now, no doubt that bug will linger there for another 4 months at least - if not forever, but I *did* tell you now about it, so don't be telling me I said nothing about it! I spent a copple of hours the last two days to try to get it working, as in just getting the damn thing installed...but it just doesn't. I've tried the webinstall just letting it run, downloading it on the HD and trying to run it, changing my regedit of my JVM (as Kev told me), restarting it, uninstalling my JVM, reinstalling it, trying some other stuff, re-uninstalling it, trying to download the java+freenetinstall, got it back corrupted, etc. Thereis NO WAY a noob wanting to try Freenet would go through even half of all this. In any case, I feel I have tried my best to run a node, and I don't accept the premise anymore that I should shut up because I don't run a freenode any longer. I think
[freenet-support] and another thing
As I said on IRC, a collegue of mine has made an article (well, actually more of a reference/pointer/short description) to freenet, and refered to the sourceforge page. Maybe that seems like an obvious mistake, but in any case: why doesn't anyone who can, update the f- page, there? It's still says 0.5.2.1 with as date 17 july 2003(!!). Great impression that makes for people that arrive there. Call it worthless what I say, but being mentioned on major putermagazines is not that easily to brush off. These kind of things will happen again, and it's a total waste if we don't correct it, which can be done quite easily, by updating it more regulary. I remember, btw, that I've said this before, even long before this article came out. But I guess it wasn't worth any attention. After all, as I've come to understand, I never said anything worthwhile. And yes, I'm whining. I feel entitled too. ___ Support mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support Unsubscribe at http://dodo.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support Or mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [freenet-support] a dead horse and other animals
Don't bury your problem on page 3 of your letter. Research has shown that a plea for donations should be three pages long, but that does not mean that most read more than the first paragraph and the last. [Original Message] From: Newsbyte [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 11/25/2004 10:16:38 AM Subject: [freenet-support] a dead horse and other animals Now, Ian always claims I don't say anything worthwhile, so I want it to be noted that I say now, very clearly, that the installer is bugged. There is definitely something wrong with it. Now, no doubt that bug will linger there for another 4 months at least - if not forever, but I *did* tell you now about it, so don't be telling me I said nothing about it! I spent a couple of hours the last two days to try to get it working, as in just getting the damn thing installed...but it just doesn't. I've tried the web installer just letting it run, downloading it on the HD and trying to run it, changing my reedit [?] of my JVM (as Kev told me), restarting it, uninstalling my JVM, reinstalling it, trying some other stuff, re-uninstalling it, trying to download the java+freenetinstall, got it back corrupted, etc. Thereis NO WAY a noob wanting to try Freenet would go through even half of all this. ___ Support mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support Unsubscribe at http://dodo.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support Or mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [freenet-support] a dead horse and other animals
On Thu, Nov 25, 2004 at 02:22:04PM +0100, Newsbyte wrote: I've been getting TFE fine, but I haven't been able to load FIND for almost a week. The lists are pretty silent lately, as well. Conspiracy theory, anyone? No, the explanation is simply this, that many active (meaning formerly inserting/posting) Freenetters have gone over to i2p. Not only do you see icons such as thetower guy there, but a lot of other ex-freenetters, some of which still didn't leave Freenet completely (like me). I've been pointing that out in the irc chan too, but I got slapped on the wrist for it. aparently, saying the obvious is 'not done'. For the first time, Freenet has some serious competition, and it's not performing well, speaking in a darwinian sense. As yet, it doesn't seem to affect finances that much, but once you start to lose interest and people go to another (promising) I2P, that can't be far away. It doesn't need to attract finances. Jrandom can work on it for free, being retired (at the age of 30 or something). I have said many times before that there is a lack of progress, or at least a sense of progress, certainly for the ordinary freenet user (and, in fact, for the end-user there HAS been little progress). The development cycle of Freenet is NOT normal, not even for a new-technology-beta. It seems that Freenet is performing better...but compared to what? To how it was a year So what's the magic cure this time? If we put out 0.6, that will make Freenet suddenly work much better? I argue the opposite: if we put out 0.6, we will be slashdotted, and the network will collapse. ago? No doubt, back then it was totally bork. It's a pitty we don't have performance testing logs, but I suspect that it's now about as good as it was 2 years ago...hmmm. Yesyes, I know a lot of technological goodies have been added, but that doesn't interest Joe Doe: he just wants it to work, and good. That means, primarely; finding something he wants, and d/l it fast, and, seen the fact it's freenet, in a safe manner. Freenet doesn't do all that. Now, granted, though I have been pleasantly surprised, neither does I2P, as yet. But the difference is, they are working 4 months on it, and have come a long way and they *are* improving dramatically. With that pace they are gaining support rapidly, as already can be seen (and that's why it has suddenly become more quiet on the posts, and Freesites are less and less being updated). The moment the DHT is ready, Freenet will not offer anything en plus, practically speaking. That is simply wrong. Freesites come and go, we have a significant churn of authors, but many freesites are new and many are updated. And I2P is so small as to not have a remotely credible anonymity set. Now, I'm ambigous about this all. In theory, competition is a good thing...only it doesn't seem to have any impact, here. It's mostly being ignored, and when someone points it out, it's not welcomed. Furthermore, I don't think two main anonymity projects can be maintained by the OSS crowd, at least not the way it is done now. what is taken by one is at the loss of the other one, and vice versa, me thinks. That's why, in a former post, I tried to stimulate both parties to try to merge their technology and forces...but to no apparent avail. Is it that I have talked with jrandom on numerous occasions. He has helped me in such matters as designing premix routing. And furthermore, we have talked about using I2P for premix routing; he tells me I2P is not ready for the sort of scale of deployment that would be involved, and I believe him. difficult to see that both projects have specific advantages, that would or at least could benefit both? Geez. Freenet has potential, it still has, but it just lays there as a dead horse, and i2p is has great ease-to-use promise, but still has to prove some basic things, like being able to scale (not that Freenet is out of the loop with that one neither). Anyways, when I pointed this out, I got the remark I was bulshitting, because I didn't even run a node anymore. Which was true, because I told so: last stable node I ran was one or two months ago. (On a positive sidenote, Ian claimed he didn't think I *really* was a troll ;-). Well, always being reasonable, I thought there was a point to it; it was time to see how this latest node was - again- going to be fanfuckingtastic. So I went for it. Fantastic as freenet may be nowadays, I hardly started or I got an error. First of all, I had to get rid of my unstable node. So I did. then I tried the download on the d/lpage of freenet: to no avail. It couldn't find the JVM. There WAS a JVM on it, rest assured though. It worked perfectly with anything else, including the former unstable node, even. But the installer said there wsn't any JVM on my box, period. Gee whiz, there's a bug in the wininstaller. News at 11. There are no bugs in I2P!!! Now, Ian always claims I don't
Re: [freenet-support] and another thing
So he should link to the project page, first and foremost. That's called doing your research. We could release a 0.6.0-pre1, but it'd be dubious... On Thu, Nov 25, 2004 at 04:23:45PM +0100, Newsbyte wrote: As I said on IRC, a collegue of mine has made an article (well, actually more of a reference/pointer/short description) to freenet, and refered to the sourceforge page. Maybe that seems like an obvious mistake, but in any case: why doesn't anyone who can, update the f- page, there? It's still says 0.5.2.1 with as date 17 july 2003(!!). Great impression that makes for people that arrive there. Call it worthless what I say, but being mentioned on major putermagazines is not that easily to brush off. These kind of things will happen again, and it's a total waste if we don't correct it, which can be done quite easily, by updating it more regulary. I remember, btw, that I've said this before, even long before this article came out. But I guess it wasn't worth any attention. After all, as I've come to understand, I never said anything worthwhile. And yes, I'm whining. I feel entitled too. ___ Support mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support Unsubscribe at http://dodo.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support Or mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Matthew J Toseland - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Freenet Project Official Codemonkey - http://freenetproject.org/ ICTHUS - Nothing is impossible. Our Boss says so. signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Support mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support Unsubscribe at http://dodo.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support Or mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[freenet-support] Re: a dead horse and other animals
1. Newsbyte: keep stirring things up. I find it helpful. 2. With respect I don't think you can both a) claim to be installing like a novice user and b) insist on keeping your existing Java install to be used and recognised. IMO the average novice user will choose the full install with Java and that will work. I'm assuming you have Java 5 (still in beta). I'm sure the Windows installer will be updated soon, and Java 5 hasn't been out that long... 3. And for those who have some slight knowledge and do want to run / keep the latest Java with a Windows install they can follow the instructions at: http://wikiserver.freenethelp.org:14741/InstallingFreenet 4. You my have heard of this Wiki. Some kind, clever person set it up...I've found it very useful although the user login (through Preferences?) seems to be broken right now... ___ Support mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support Unsubscribe at http://dodo.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support Or mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
