Re: Goodbye Seamonkey
Mark Hansen wrote: On 1/31/2010 8:09 AM, Phillip Jones wrote: Just want to keep making the point not everyone desires tabs. And make sure us people that don't, have the ability to customize the way we want. I may be the only one on the groups that does, but there are most likely unspoken thousands, that share my views. Thousands? Yes. there perhaps only 1/1000's or 1/1's of the actual users actually frequent the newsgroups, forums and such. what opinions are represented here, are the people that frequent here. They have no resemble to the people that Use SeaMonkey, FireFox, ThunderBird and have no idea these support forums are even here. Plus many ISP's and cable, Phone Companies are going away with news servers, or even limiting email. So there are *many* users that don't even know we exist. -- Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.If it's Fixed, Don't Break it http://www.phillipmjones.net http://www.vpea.org mailto:pjon...@kimbanet.com ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Goodbye Seamonkey
Ray_Net wrote: Phillip Jones wrote: »Q« wrote: Innews:7rgdnrrlobixa_nwnz2dnuvz_j6dn...@mozilla.org, Phillip Jonespjon...@kimbanet.com wrote: If they want the silly tabs. Fine. If it makes people giddy using them That's fine as well Just please keep a way to turn the tab nonsense off. You need to satisfy all the users and not everyone is enamored with tabs. Phillip, I could have sworn someone has already helped you turn off everything to do with tabs. If you're still seeing tabs where you don't want to, please start a thread about it and get it fixed the way you want it. I have tabs turned off for now. But everything opens in new windows (which is better than tabs.) I'd like for it to re-use the current window. I know on SM 1.1.18 there were certain sites that forced new windows. but most would reuse the same window. In SM 2 everything brings up a new window. for example: if I click a link say with this post. It should open the existing browser window, and show the content there. But actually my ISP's home page window is untouched, and I have two window instances. If I click on to another page within that page, most of the time another window comes up. One thing that has changed which helps is that one window lands directly on top of the other. I 1.1.18 would offset one window over and down(cascading). Just want to keep making the point not everyone desires tabs. And make sure us people that don't, have the ability to customize the way we want. I may be the only one on the groups that does, but there are most likely unspoken thousands, that share my views. Most people don't know where to share their views and just put up what they are spoon fed whether they like it not. I never use(d) tabs. SM as another browser use the same window or another one depending of the presence and the contains, or the absence of a target window command on the link we click on. That's not a problem,... When a new window appeared the back command is greyed, so i decide to conserve this window or close it. When the new page replace the current one, i use the back button to close it. Exactly the way it should be. -- Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.If it's Fixed, Don't Break it http://www.phillipmjones.net http://www.vpea.org mailto:pjon...@kimbanet.com ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Goodbye Seamonkey
Ray_Net wrote: Robert Kaiser wrote: Phillip Jones schrieb: Funny how things change. everyone now has to emulate Internet Explorer to keep up. (Not necessarily the way it works under the hood.) Well, one difference is that many people nowdays don't use any desktop email client any more (either they use webmail or just social networking messages or instant mesaging of some sort), and surely don't use newsgroups at all. Times change, strangely. Exact .. times changes i should be an old guy. I use SM as browser, mail and some news. I don't understand why people complains about installing SM as a browser-only. If they don't want the mail or the news parts in SM, they can use their preferred ones. So there is no need to say Goobye SM. I used FreeAgent for most of my newsgroups and sometimes Outlook when needed when i have to reply or create de mail to an Outlook people :-) I use FF only when I need to just go to a web page for a second or two to check something. But when I want to read Mail and news as well I open SM instead. I don't even have ThunderBird install on this Computer. -- Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.If it's Fixed, Don't Break it http://www.phillipmjones.net http://www.vpea.org mailto:pjon...@kimbanet.com ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Goodbye Seamonkey
Robert Kaiser wrote: Phillip Jones schrieb: I have tabs turned off for now. But everything opens in new windows (which is better than tabs.) I'd like for it to re-use the current window. I know on SM 1.1.18 there were certain sites that forced new windows. but most would reuse the same window. In SM 2 everything brings up a new window. for example: if I click a link say with this post. It should open the existing browser window, and show the content there. But actually my ISP's home page window is untouched, and I have two window instances. If I click on to another page within that page, most of the time another window comes up. There should be a setting that is currently grouped in tabbed browsing where you can change that. Be aware that the internal mail client follows the setting for external applications, though. Robert Kaiser There actually no definitive setting saying use windows instead of tabs I have Link open behavior - new window Links from other application - new window if set for open in existing window or tab then it shows tabs instead of windows. I guess that's the reason; but, its ether this or tabs. -- Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.If it's Fixed, Don't Break it http://www.phillipmjones.net http://www.vpea.org mailto:pjon...@kimbanet.com ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Goodbye Seamonkey
Robert Kaiser wrote: Rufus schrieb: ...hmmnn...newsgrouping is my biggest reason for wanting an integrated suite - best way to focus on information exchange with my hobbies. I fully agree, and a number of other SeaMonkey users probably do as well, I just wanted to explain why a large number of people turn to browser-only applications, as _they_ don't need anything else. Almost everyone in here thinks differently, of course ;-) Robert Kaiser Well most do ;-) -- Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.If it's Fixed, Don't Break it http://www.phillipmjones.net http://www.vpea.org mailto:pjon...@kimbanet.com ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Goodbye Seamonkey
»Q« wrote: Innews:eeidnfitt56q4vjwnz2dnuvz_gcdn...@mozilla.org, Robert Kaiserka...@kairo.at wrote: NoOp schrieb: Really? And early versions of Netscape were just simple browsers? I still have both Mosaic and Netscape on disk, including a version of the first Netscape w/support license. I suppose I could pull it out of the archives (shelf) and check it, but I seem to recall that it included an email client. Very early versions were browser-only for sure, but I can't exactly tell which version was the first to have a mail client. I heard it was some 3.x version, but I wasn't around at that time. It was Netscape 2.0 which introduced mail/news, in 1996. I've installed a browser-only SM 2.0.2. To get mailto links working, I had to edit my profile's mimeTypes.rdf, but it works. Okay, how did you install it browser only? Lee ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Goodbye Seamonkey
On 01/31/2010 08:09 AM, Phillip Jones wrote: »Q« wrote: Innews:7rgdnrrlobixa_nwnz2dnuvz_j6dn...@mozilla.org, Phillip Jonespjon...@kimbanet.com wrote: If they want the silly tabs. Fine. If it makes people giddy using them That's fine as well Just please keep a way to turn the tab nonsense off. You need to satisfy all the users and not everyone is enamored with tabs. Phillip, I could have sworn someone has already helped you turn off everything to do with tabs. If you're still seeing tabs where you don't want to, please start a thread about it and get it fixed the way you want it. I have tabs turned off for now. But everything opens in new windows (which is better than tabs.) I'd like for it to re-use the current window. I know on SM 1.1.18 there were certain sites that forced new windows. but most would reuse the same window. In SM 2 everything brings up a new window. for example: if I click a link say with this post. It should open the existing browser window, and show the content there. But actually my ISP's home page window is untouched, and I have two window instances. If I click on to another page within that page, most of the time another window comes up. One thing that has changed which helps is that one window lands directly on top of the other. I 1.1.18 would offset one window over and down(cascading). Just want to keep making the point not everyone desires tabs. And make sure us people that don't, have the ability to customize the way we want. I may be the only one on the groups that does, but there are most likely unspoken thousands, that share my views. Most people don't know where to share their views and just put up what they are spoon fed whether they like it not. So, let's spoon feed you: *start a new thread*. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Goodbye Seamonkey
Leonidas Jones wrote: »Q« wrote: Innews:eeidnfitt56q4vjwnz2dnuvz_gcdn...@mozilla.org, Robert Kaiserka...@kairo.at wrote: NoOp schrieb: Really? And early versions of Netscape were just simple browsers? I still have both Mosaic and Netscape on disk, including a version of the first Netscape w/support license. I suppose I could pull it out of the archives (shelf) and check it, but I seem to recall that it included an email client. Very early versions were browser-only for sure, but I can't exactly tell which version was the first to have a mail client. I heard it was some 3.x version, but I wasn't around at that time. It was Netscape 2.0 which introduced mail/news, in 1996. I've installed a browser-only SM 2.0.2. To get mailto links working, I had to edit my profile's mimeTypes.rdf, but it works. Okay, how did you install it browser only? Lee Yes, I'm interested in the answer to that too. BJ ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Goodbye Seamonkey
On or about 1/30/2010 1:03 AM, Lou typed the following: Russell wrote: As someone who's been on the web since the beginning with Mosaic , then Netscape, then AOL Netscape (ugh) , then Netscape re-born as Seamonkey, it's a sad day to have to give up and move on, The end comes with v2.x, Seamonkey and the decision to no longer be a simple browser, but that it must be an ‘all or nothing' suite. So if you need to use another email client then it will just screw up your whole way of working. I'm convinced that this was a ‘behind the doors' decision with the Firefox crowd to justify Mozilla supporting a second browser project, and they then agreed that Seamonkey would only continue as an integrated suite, and that's the only way users will be able to use it (fatal error imo). The Firefox crowd will be happy to hear that I know of at least 5 users (this week alone) who have moved to other browsers as there is no upgrade path for them beyond v1.1.18. Meanwhile Firefox continues to offer an email client (Thunderbird) as a OPTION and that's probably where they will go, as have I, for now. But this whole thing smacks of nasty backroom BS. I'll hold my nose and use Firefox for now. But it's sad to have to say goodbye to a browser I've used and promoted for so many years. R. Why would you want to use another E-mail client? I think that most people that gravitate towards Seamonkey do it because of the all-in-one browser/e-mail client integration. Lou Absolutely. That is just one of the reasons I've used Netscape, Mozilla, and now SeaMonkey. -- Ed http://mysite.verizon.net/vze1zhwu My first thought is usually wrong, criminal, or selfish. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Goodbye Seamonkey
Russell schrieb: I'm convinced that this was a ‘behind the doors' decision with the Firefox crowd to justify Mozilla supporting a second browser project, and they then agreed that Seamonkey would only continue as an integrated suite, and that's the only way users will be able to use it (fatal error imo). It's interesting that you know of decisions the project organizing way doesn't know about. It must be nice to see conspiracies everywhere. Robert Kaiser ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Goodbye Seamonkey
Rinaldi J. Montessi wrote: BeeNeR wrote: snip Absolutely. That is just one of the reasons I've used Netscape, Mozilla, and now SeaMonkey. Yes. When did the integration take place? Netscape version 3.0 or so? The first version I used was Netscape 3.0.a.Gold which I had to pay $35.00 Buck for. it was received on a CD and had a Paper Back 200 page manual. -- Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.If it's Fixed, Don't Break it http://www.phillipmjones.net http://www.vpea.org mailto:pjon...@kimbanet.com ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Goodbye Seamonkey
Russell wrote: The end comes with v2.x, Seamonkey and the decision to no longer be a simple browser, but that it must be an ‘all or nothing' suite. So if you need to use another email client then it will just screw up your whole way of working. I'm convinced that this was a ‘behind the doors' decision with the Firefox crowd to justify Mozilla supporting a second browser project, and they then agreed that Seamonkey would only continue as an integrated suite, and that's the only way users will be able to use it (fatal error imo). The real story is that for SeaMonkey 2.0, the backend was switched from the unmaintained XPFE, used for SeaMonkey 1.x, to toolkit, used by Firefox and Thunderbird. This also meant using toolkit's installer. Because Firefox and Thunderbird are stand-alone applications, before SeaMonkey came along there was no reason to support installation of separate application components, as there was only one. Hence why the toolkit installer doesn't support it. All it supports is installing additional extensions. As mailnews is not an extension, it wasn't possible to package it as a separate component. Maybe in the future the toolkit installer will support additional components. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Goodbye Seamonkey
Robert Kaiser wrote: Russell schrieb: I'm convinced that this was a ‘behind the doors' decision with the Firefox crowd to justify Mozilla supporting a second browser project, and they then agreed that Seamonkey would only continue as an integrated suite, and that's the only way users will be able to use it (fatal error imo). It's interesting that you know of decisions the project organizing way doesn't know about. It must be nice to see conspiracies everywhere. Robert Kaiser I don't know that I'd call it conspiracy, but in looking at Firefox, Safari, Camino, Google Chrome, and now SM 2.x there certainly seems to be a vast amount of code sharing/swapping going on...the default interfaces are in a lot of cases nearly identical with the exception of colors in some cases. And though SM still offers more Pref settings choices, the Prefs choices available in the others are also near to identical. At least that's the impression I'm left with after a high level look at all of the Mac versions. If this is to be/become the case, the OP certainly has a point about loss of independence (either by choice or necessity) of code and functionality for all of the efforts - not just SM. If that's a business decision then that's the decision...but it sort of does bode for less genuine choice for the user between the packages in the end. One of the major draws to SM for me other than it being an integrated suite was that it did things and allowed me choices I couldn't get elsewhere...some of those features noticably vanished with SM 2.x.x, and the thought that this could be a trend is responsible for me looking for alternatives, too. As I've stated previously, if I could blend one or two key features of Opera with everything I had in SM 1.1.18 I'd declare near perfection. -- - Rufus ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Goodbye Seamonkey
Rufus wrote: Robert Kaiser wrote: Russell schrieb: I'm convinced that this was a ‘behind the doors' decision with the Firefox crowd to justify Mozilla supporting a second browser project, and they then agreed that Seamonkey would only continue as an integrated suite, and that's the only way users will be able to use it (fatal error imo). It's interesting that you know of decisions the project organizing way doesn't know about. It must be nice to see conspiracies everywhere. Robert Kaiser I don't know that I'd call it conspiracy, but in looking at Firefox, Safari, Camino, Google Chrome, and now SM 2.x there certainly seems to be a vast amount of code sharing/swapping going on...the default interfaces are in a lot of cases nearly identical with the exception of colors in some cases. And though SM still offers more Pref settings choices, the Prefs choices available in the others are also near to identical. At least that's the impression I'm left with after a high level look at all of the Mac versions. If this is to be/become the case, the OP certainly has a point about loss of independence (either by choice or necessity) of code and functionality for all of the efforts - not just SM. If that's a business decision then that's the decision...but it sort of does bode for less genuine choice for the user between the packages in the end. Here I must agree, Seamonkey seems to have moved from being a project with its own flavor, to being a mashup of FF and TB. I still find it useful, but the two things I find most missing are never going to be there because they are not in the base codes of FF and TB. One of the major draws to SM for me other than it being an integrated suite was that it did things and allowed me choices I couldn't get elsewhere...some of those features noticably vanished with SM 2.x.x, and the thought that this could be a trend is responsible for me looking for alternatives, too. I am sad that SM went with the FF browser intead of following the webkit route, but I realize Moz politics are involved, and siding with Chrome and Safari (IIRC) going another way wasn't politically possible, but those two projects seem to have chosen the best tech out there without political consideration, and they seem to be feeding stuff back into it. As I've stated previously, if I could blend one or two key features of Opera with everything I had in SM 1.1.18 I'd declare near perfection. The removal of form manager leaves me on 1.1.18 until the heat death of the universe, I simply am not happy with 2.0.x or the extensions available for forms, so that's kind of a dead end. The whole premise of forms as they are is wrong, it's a form field manager, not treating the form as a whole but a collection of possible vales for the fields. I want watched threads in mail, too, but we never had that. -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Goodbye Seamonkey
Rufus schrieb: I don't know that I'd call it conspiracy, but in looking at Firefox, Safari, Camino, Google Chrome, and now SM 2.x there certainly seems to be a vast amount of code sharing/swapping going on... Chrome and Safari share code with each other but don't share any code with any of the others, so you're wrong here. The second time in this thread that people make wrong assumptions about what I'm doing all day as a project coordinator for SeaMonkey. As I've stated previously, if I could blend one or two key features of Opera with everything I had in SM 1.1.18 I'd declare near perfection. Opera isn't open source, but you know what the features are that you want and SeaMonkey is open source in all versions, so just try to do it, and you'll be happy. ;-) Robert Kaiser ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Goodbye Seamonkey
Robert Kaiser wrote: Rufus schrieb: I don't know that I'd call it conspiracy, but in looking at Firefox, Safari, Camino, Google Chrome, and now SM 2.x there certainly seems to be a vast amount of code sharing/swapping going on... Chrome and Safari share code with each other but don't share any code with any of the others, so you're wrong here. The second time in this thread that people make wrong assumptions about what I'm doing all day as a project coordinator for SeaMonkey. Yeah, they may part ways under the hood, but from a user standpoint I really don't care about that - I'm going to use the product, not tinker with it. They all look and feel nearly identical, so all those folks are sharing ideas at a minimum. As I've stated previously, if I could blend one or two key features of Opera with everything I had in SM 1.1.18 I'd declare near perfection. Opera isn't open source, but you know what the features are that you want and SeaMonkey is open source in all versions, so just try to do it, and you'll be happy. ;-) Robert Kaiser The biggest one is opening Mail/News in a tab vice a second window of it's own - that's integrated and really slick, especially on a laptop, and in particular with Spaces in Mac OS X. Saves desk real estate in a way I wouldn't have considered until I'd actually used it. Just combine that one feature with the ability to tab Mail as it stands now under SM 2.x.x and you've got a winner, IMO. One of the other interesting thing about Opera is that it's about:config page has an ability built in to reset it to default - I'm not one for fooling around in about:config, but that certainly seems a prudent feature for someone that is... -- - Rufus ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Goodbye Seamonkey
Bill Davidsen schrieb: I still find it useful, but the two things I find most missing are never going to be there because they are not in the base codes of FF and TB. Unless someone comes up and writes code that implements them based on the SM2 base - and everyone is welcome to that. I am sad that SM went with the FF browser intead of following the webkit route Webkit was never in any discussion, I wonder why you think it was. Mozilla is not in any way related to Webkit and SeaMonkey is and always was a complete Mozilla project. So I have no idea what you are up to here right now other than to play a troll... I want watched threads in mail, too, but we never had that. Feel free to write a patch. Robert Kaiser ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Goodbye Seamonkey
Rufus schrieb: The biggest one is opening Mail/News in a tab vice a second window of it's own - that's integrated and really slick, especially on a laptop, and in particular with Spaces in Mac OS X. Saves desk real estate in a way I wouldn't have considered until I'd actually used it. Just combine that one feature with the ability to tab Mail as it stands now under SM 2.x.x and you've got a winner, IMO. Actually - believe it or not - that's in our plans for the future. But it will need a good bit of more work and is probably still quite a way down the road. One of the other interesting thing about Opera is that it's about:config page has an ability built in to reset it to default - I'm not one for fooling around in about:config, but that certainly seems a prudent feature for someone that is... Sounds interesting! Robert Kaiser ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Goodbye Seamonkey
Robert Kaiser wrote: Rufus schrieb: The biggest one is opening Mail/News in a tab vice a second window of it's own - that's integrated and really slick, especially on a laptop, and in particular with Spaces in Mac OS X. Saves desk real estate in a way I wouldn't have considered until I'd actually used it. Just combine that one feature with the ability to tab Mail as it stands now under SM 2.x.x and you've got a winner, IMO. Actually - believe it or not - that's in our plans for the future. But it will need a good bit of more work and is probably still quite a way down the road. That's encouraging...seriously, one has to use it to see what a boon it will be, but wow! What a great feature. I'm still undecided on how much I like or don't like navigating the Sidebar using tabs, though...I guess I'm a grippie-cripple... One of the other interesting thing about Opera is that it's about:config page has an ability built in to reset it to default - I'm not one for fooling around in about:config, but that certainly seems a prudent feature for someone that is... Sounds interesting! Robert Kaiser Yeah...was a bit of a surprise to me. And yet another thing that leads one to suspect code sharing...or at least idea sharing - I had no reason to even think there would be an about:config in Opera, yet there it was/is... My biggest kick against Opera is that it's pref selections are sort of shotgunned all over the place and easy to get lot in - too many menus...I think the attempt was/is to make them coincident with whatever is being displayed, but it ends up being a mess to sort though - one can, but it's not all that intuitive. And I'm still trying to figure out how to get it to connect it's Mail client using standard SSL vice TLS...but I do seem to be liking more and more of a lot of the things it does. -- - Rufus ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Goodbye Seamonkey
Rufus wrote: Robert Kaiser wrote: Rufus schrieb: I don't know that I'd call it conspiracy, but in looking at Firefox, Safari, Camino, Google Chrome, and now SM 2.x there certainly seems to be a vast amount of code sharing/swapping going on... Chrome and Safari share code with each other but don't share any code with any of the others, so you're wrong here. The second time in this thread that people make wrong assumptions about what I'm doing all day as a project coordinator for SeaMonkey. Yeah, they may part ways under the hood, but from a user standpoint I really don't care about that - I'm going to use the product, not tinker with it. They all look and feel nearly identical, so all those folks are sharing ideas at a minimum. As I've stated previously, if I could blend one or two key features of Opera with everything I had in SM 1.1.18 I'd declare near perfection. Opera isn't open source, but you know what the features are that you want and SeaMonkey is open source in all versions, so just try to do it, and you'll be happy. ;-) Robert Kaiser The biggest one is opening Mail/News in a tab vice a second window of it's own - that's integrated and really slick, especially on a laptop, and in particular with Spaces in Mac OS X. Saves desk real estate in a way I wouldn't have considered until I'd actually used it. Just combine that one feature with the ability to tab Mail as it stands now under SM 2.x.x and you've got a winner, IMO. One of the other interesting thing about Opera is that it's about:config page has an ability built in to reset it to default - I'm not one for fooling around in about:config, but that certainly seems a prudent feature for someone that is... Of all of the browsers iCab seems to be the fastest. For me and Safari and all using the same engine are actually slower than SM 2. I am unsure, iCab I don't know if it webkit or Gecko. -- Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.If it's Fixed, Don't Break it http://www.phillipmjones.net http://www.vpea.org mailto:pjon...@kimbanet.com ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Goodbye Seamonkey
Robert Kaiser wrote: Rufus schrieb: The biggest one is opening Mail/News in a tab vice a second window of it's own - that's integrated and really slick, especially on a laptop, and in particular with Spaces in Mac OS X. Saves desk real estate in a way I wouldn't have considered until I'd actually used it. Just combine that one feature with the ability to tab Mail as it stands now under SM 2.x.x and you've got a winner, IMO. Actually - believe it or not - that's in our plans for the future. But it will need a good bit of more work and is probably still quite a way down the road. One of the other interesting thing about Opera is that it's about:config page has an ability built in to reset it to default - I'm not one for fooling around in about:config, but that certainly seems a prudent feature for someone that is... Sounds interesting! Robert Kaiser No! No! No! No! No tabs in Email/ News that are enough of a PIA in the browser. If they are I want a switch to turn them off. Has ever one gone daft?! In Opera You can't even turn tabs completely off. You can fix it so it goes from window to window, but the Toolbar shows that %^$ Tab. -- Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.If it's Fixed, Don't Break it http://www.phillipmjones.net http://www.vpea.org mailto:pjon...@kimbanet.com ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Goodbye Seamonkey
Phillip Jones wrote: Rufus wrote: Robert Kaiser wrote: Rufus schrieb: I don't know that I'd call it conspiracy, but in looking at Firefox, Safari, Camino, Google Chrome, and now SM 2.x there certainly seems to be a vast amount of code sharing/swapping going on... Chrome and Safari share code with each other but don't share any code with any of the others, so you're wrong here. The second time in this thread that people make wrong assumptions about what I'm doing all day as a project coordinator for SeaMonkey. Yeah, they may part ways under the hood, but from a user standpoint I really don't care about that - I'm going to use the product, not tinker with it. They all look and feel nearly identical, so all those folks are sharing ideas at a minimum. As I've stated previously, if I could blend one or two key features of Opera with everything I had in SM 1.1.18 I'd declare near perfection. Opera isn't open source, but you know what the features are that you want and SeaMonkey is open source in all versions, so just try to do it, and you'll be happy. ;-) Robert Kaiser The biggest one is opening Mail/News in a tab vice a second window of it's own - that's integrated and really slick, especially on a laptop, and in particular with Spaces in Mac OS X. Saves desk real estate in a way I wouldn't have considered until I'd actually used it. Just combine that one feature with the ability to tab Mail as it stands now under SM 2.x.x and you've got a winner, IMO. One of the other interesting thing about Opera is that it's about:config page has an ability built in to reset it to default - I'm not one for fooling around in about:config, but that certainly seems a prudent feature for someone that is... Of all of the browsers iCab seems to be the fastest. For me and Safari and all using the same engine are actually slower than SM 2. I am unsure, iCab I don't know if it webkit or Gecko. I must be blessed with one heck of an ISP infrastructure...I never seem to notice speed when it comes to fooling around with browsers...at least, nothing I would attribute to the browser. And I did notice that while everyone else seems to be dropping Usenet access, mine has actually been improved in the last couple months - both retention and speedwise. -- - Rufus ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Goodbye Seamonkey
Phillip Jones wrote: Robert Kaiser wrote: Rufus schrieb: The biggest one is opening Mail/News in a tab vice a second window of it's own - that's integrated and really slick, especially on a laptop, and in particular with Spaces in Mac OS X. Saves desk real estate in a way I wouldn't have considered until I'd actually used it. Just combine that one feature with the ability to tab Mail as it stands now under SM 2.x.x and you've got a winner, IMO. Actually - believe it or not - that's in our plans for the future. But it will need a good bit of more work and is probably still quite a way down the road. One of the other interesting thing about Opera is that it's about:config page has an ability built in to reset it to default - I'm not one for fooling around in about:config, but that certainly seems a prudent feature for someone that is... Sounds interesting! Robert Kaiser No! No! No! No! No tabs in Email/ News that are enough of a PIA in the browser. If they are I want a switch to turn them off. Has ever one gone daft?! In Opera You can't even turn tabs completely off. You can fix it so it goes from window to window, but the Toolbar shows that %^$ Tab. Another thing you can do in Opera is default toolbars to tabs...I seriously love Operas tabs - the Mail/News implementation in particular. I can't wait to see this feature in SM! -- - Rufus ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Goodbye Seamonkey
On 01/30/2010 03:34 PM, Phillip Jones wrote: Robert Kaiser wrote: Rufus schrieb: The biggest one is opening Mail/News in a tab vice a second window of it's own - that's integrated and really slick, especially on a laptop, and in particular with Spaces in Mac OS X. Saves desk real estate in a way I wouldn't have considered until I'd actually used it. Just combine that one feature with the ability to tab Mail as it stands now under SM 2.x.x and you've got a winner, IMO. Actually - believe it or not - that's in our plans for the future. But it will need a good bit of more work and is probably still quite a way down the road. One of the other interesting thing about Opera is that it's about:config page has an ability built in to reset it to default - I'm not one for fooling around in about:config, but that certainly seems a prudent feature for someone that is... Sounds interesting! Robert Kaiser No! No! No! No! No tabs in Email/ News that are enough of a PIA in the browser. If they are I want a switch to turn them off. Has ever one gone daft?! In Opera You can't even turn tabs completely off. You can fix it so it goes from window to window, but the Toolbar shows that %^$ Tab. Phillip; get over it, please! It's obvious that you are vehemently against tabs... So find another browser/suite/whatever (take Rufus with you please). You are becoming the SeaMonkey drama (no-tabs) queen (king?). Tabs are IMO one of the *best* additions to SeaMonkey since it's inception. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Goodbye Seamonkey
On 01/29/2010 03:36 PM, Russell wrote: As someone who's been on the web since the beginning with Mosaic , then Netscape, then AOL Netscape (ugh) , then Netscape re-born as Seamonkey, it's a sad day to have to give up and move on, The end comes with v2.x, Seamonkey and the decision to no longer be a simple browser, but that it must be an ‘all or nothing' suite. So if you need to use another email client then it will just screw up your whole way of working. Really? And early versions of Netscape were just simple browsers? I still have both Mosaic and Netscape on disk, including a version of the first Netscape w/support license. I suppose I could pull it out of the archives (shelf) and check it, but I seem to recall that it included an email client. I'm convinced that this was a ‘behind the doors' decision with the Firefox crowd to justify Mozilla supporting a second browser project, and they then agreed that Seamonkey would only continue as an integrated suite, and that's the only way users will be able to use it (fatal error imo). What on earth are you talking about? The Firefox crowd will be happy to hear that I know of at least 5 users (this week alone) who have moved to other browsers as there is no upgrade path for them beyond v1.1.18. Meanwhile Firefox continues to offer an email client (Thunderbird) as a OPTION and that's probably where they will go, as have I, for now. But this whole thing smacks of nasty backroom BS. I'll hold my nose and use Firefox for now. But it's sad to have to say goodbye to a browser I've used and promoted for so many years. R. Bye. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Goodbye Seamonkey
NoOp wrote: On 01/30/2010 03:34 PM, Phillip Jones wrote: Robert Kaiser wrote: Rufus schrieb: The biggest one is opening Mail/News in a tab vice a second window of it's own - that's integrated and really slick, especially on a laptop, and in particular with Spaces in Mac OS X. Saves desk real estate in a way I wouldn't have considered until I'd actually used it. Just combine that one feature with the ability to tab Mail as it stands now under SM 2.x.x and you've got a winner, IMO. Actually - believe it or not - that's in our plans for the future. But it will need a good bit of more work and is probably still quite a way down the road. One of the other interesting thing about Opera is that it's about:config page has an ability built in to reset it to default - I'm not one for fooling around in about:config, but that certainly seems a prudent feature for someone that is... Sounds interesting! Robert Kaiser No! No! No! No! No tabs in Email/ News that are enough of a PIA in the browser. If they are I want a switch to turn them off. Has ever one gone daft?! In Opera You can't even turn tabs completely off. You can fix it so it goes from window to window, but the Toolbar shows that %^$ Tab. Phillip; get over it, please! It's obvious that you are vehemently against tabs... So find another browser/suite/whatever (take Rufus with you please). You are becoming the SeaMonkey drama (no-tabs) queen (king?). Tabs are IMO one of the *best* additions to SeaMonkey since it's inception. Actually, you can sort of turn tabs off in Opera simply by deselecting display of the Tab bar...but tabs rock, so why would anyone turn them off? More tabs, more better say I. ...OTOH, finding a product provider which will actually provide service and/or options to it's user base when they ask is far more important. I've learned to stop asking. It's about useless... -- - Rufus ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Goodbye Seamonkey
Rufus wrote: NoOp wrote: On 01/30/2010 03:34 PM, Phillip Jones wrote: Robert Kaiser wrote: Rufus schrieb: The biggest one is opening Mail/News in a tab vice a second window of it's own - that's integrated and really slick, especially on a laptop, and in particular with Spaces in Mac OS X. Saves desk real estate in a way I wouldn't have considered until I'd actually used it. Just combine that one feature with the ability to tab Mail as it stands now under SM 2.x.x and you've got a winner, IMO. Actually - believe it or not - that's in our plans for the future. But it will need a good bit of more work and is probably still quite a way down the road. One of the other interesting thing about Opera is that it's about:config page has an ability built in to reset it to default - I'm not one for fooling around in about:config, but that certainly seems a prudent feature for someone that is... Sounds interesting! Robert Kaiser No! No! No! No! No tabs in Email/ News that are enough of a PIA in the browser. If they are I want a switch to turn them off. Has ever one gone daft?! In Opera You can't even turn tabs completely off. You can fix it so it goes from window to window, but the Toolbar shows that %^$ Tab. Phillip; get over it, please! It's obvious that you are vehemently against tabs... So find another browser/suite/whatever (take Rufus with you please). You are becoming the SeaMonkey drama (no-tabs) queen (king?). Tabs are IMO one of the *best* additions to SeaMonkey since it's inception. Actually, you can sort of turn tabs off in Opera simply by deselecting display of the Tab bar...but tabs rock, so why would anyone turn them off? More tabs, more better say I. ...OTOH, finding a product provider which will actually provide service and/or options to it's user base when they ask is far more important. I've learned to stop asking. It's about useless... If they want the silly tabs. Fine. If it makes people giddy using them That's fine as well Just please keep a way to turn the tab nonsense off. You need to satisfy all the users and not everyone is enamored with tabs. I use DreamWeaver to keep up my website. and I avoid opening more than one page at a time. because it uses tabs, when you open more than one page at a time. I don't want to accidentally hit the wrong tab and be working on a page I didn't intend to I have several page that look similar. and two that look identical. the difference is one has music content set up to play on old browsers and one setup to play on newer browsers. -- Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T.If it's Fixed, Don't Break it http://www.phillipmjones.net http://www.vpea.org mailto:pjon...@kimbanet.com ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Goodbye Seamonkey
In news:7rgdnrrlobixa_nwnz2dnuvz_j6dn...@mozilla.org, Phillip Jones pjon...@kimbanet.com wrote: If they want the silly tabs. Fine. If it makes people giddy using them That's fine as well Just please keep a way to turn the tab nonsense off. You need to satisfy all the users and not everyone is enamored with tabs. Phillip, I could have sworn someone has already helped you turn off everything to do with tabs. If you're still seeing tabs where you don't want to, please start a thread about it and get it fixed the way you want it. -- »Q« /\ ASCII Ribbon Campaign \ / against html e-mailX http://asciiribbon.org/ / \ ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Goodbye Seamonkey
As someone who's been on the web since the beginning with Mosaic , then Netscape, then AOL Netscape (ugh) , then Netscape re-born as Seamonkey, it's a sad day to have to give up and move on, The end comes with v2.x, Seamonkey and the decision to no longer be a simple browser, but that it must be an all or nothing' suite. So if you need to use another email client then it will just screw up your whole way of working. I'm convinced that this was a behind the doors' decision with the Firefox crowd to justify Mozilla supporting a second browser project, and they then agreed that Seamonkey would only continue as an integrated suite, and that's the only way users will be able to use it (fatal error imo). The Firefox crowd will be happy to hear that I know of at least 5 users (this week alone) who have moved to other browsers as there is no upgrade path for them beyond v1.1.18. Meanwhile Firefox continues to offer an email client (Thunderbird) as a OPTION and that's probably where they will go, as have I, for now. But this whole thing smacks of nasty backroom BS. I'll hold my nose and use Firefox for now. But it's sad to have to say goodbye to a browser I've used and promoted for so many years. R. ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
Re: Goodbye Seamonkey
Russell wrote: As someone who's been on the web since the beginning with Mosaic , then Netscape, then AOL Netscape (ugh) , then Netscape re-born as Seamonkey, it's a sad day to have to give up and move on, The end comes with v2.x, Seamonkey and the decision to no longer be a simple browser, but that it must be an ‘all or nothing' suite. So if you need to use another email client then it will just screw up your whole way of working. I'm convinced that this was a ‘behind the doors' decision with the Firefox crowd to justify Mozilla supporting a second browser project, and they then agreed that Seamonkey would only continue as an integrated suite, and that's the only way users will be able to use it (fatal error imo). The Firefox crowd will be happy to hear that I know of at least 5 users (this week alone) who have moved to other browsers as there is no upgrade path for them beyond v1.1.18. Meanwhile Firefox continues to offer an email client (Thunderbird) as a OPTION and that's probably where they will go, as have I, for now. But this whole thing smacks of nasty backroom BS. I'll hold my nose and use Firefox for now. But it's sad to have to say goodbye to a browser I've used and promoted for so many years. R. Why would you want to use another E-mail client? I think that most people that gravitate towards Seamonkey do it because of the all-in-one browser/e-mail client integration. Lou ___ support-seamonkey mailing list support-seamonkey@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey
