Re: [Sursound] A-format panner.
No worries - I have absolutely no problem with artistic motives, been working with artists all my life! Dave On 7 October 2013 17:55, Kan Kaban kanka...@alivecinema.org wrote: Thanks a lot for those papers. Beautiful. Same month year of my birth. Yes, I´ll do ambisonics and I´ll stay analogue as much as I can. There is a motive, but it is an artistic one. So, seems non sense to try to explain it here. You will just throw stones in my head just for that idea. Thanks a lot to everyone who´s been really helpful. KK. I agree with Jörn, doing this in analogue, today, for anything else than enacting a zen koan to enlighten apprentices, seems decidedly weird... but that's part of the point about art, right? If you really, really want to do analogue Ambisonic stuff, I suggest you look at the two (hand written!) reports on Ambisonic technology Michael Gerzon wrote for the NRDC. I've put them in my Dropbox folder... https://www.dropbox.com/s/f5szcb2kty2x871/NRDC_technology_report_4_rotate.pdfand https://www.dropbox.com/s/93dybs6uubfa567/NRDC_technology_report_3_rotate_b.pdf ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -- -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20131009/4c2f5e44/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] A-format panner.
Hi Dave you have alway been very patient and helpful with us and I for one appreciate that :-) Ķan yes thats my site On Wednesday, 9 October 2013, Dave Malham dave.mal...@york.ac.uk wrote: No worries - I have absolutely no problem with artistic motives, been working with artists all my life! Dave On 7 October 2013 17:55, Kan Kaban kanka...@alivecinema.org wrote: Thanks a lot for those papers. Beautiful. Same month year of my birth. Yes, I´ll do ambisonics and I´ll stay analogue as much as I can. There is a motive, but it is an artistic one. So, seems non sense to try to explain it here. You will just throw stones in my head just for that idea. Thanks a lot to everyone who´s been really helpful. KK. I agree with Jörn, doing this in analogue, today, for anything else than enacting a zen koan to enlighten apprentices, seems decidedly weird... but that's part of the point about art, right? If you really, really want to do analogue Ambisonic stuff, I suggest you look at the two (hand written!) reports on Ambisonic technology Michael Gerzon wrote for the NRDC. I've put them in my Dropbox folder... https://www.dropbox.com/s/f5szcb2kty2x871/NRDC_technology_report_4_rotate.pdfand https://www.dropbox.com/s/93dybs6uubfa567/NRDC_technology_report_3_rotate_b.pdf ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -- -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20131009/4c2f5e44/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -- 07580951119 augustine.leudar.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20131009/8d88dad0/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] A-format panner.
Hi Kan, Good luck with your project - I think its a shame you don't feel comfortable being open about your ideas in this forum - but I can understand - you dont really feel like sharing if you think people are just going to jump down your throat everytime you make an error. -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20131008/d83a69d5/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] A-format panner.
Hi Kan, Good luck with your project Thanks!. - I think its a shame you don't feel comfortable being open about your ideas in this forum - but I can understand - you dont really feel like sharing if you think people are just going to jump down your throat everytime you make an error….. Don´t worry, I understand the Ambisonics legacy involves a diversity of professionals objectives. They care about the right use of the terminology knowledge, it´s normal. I feel the same about my own concerns. No hard feelings here, by any chance. This is a huge world full of different attitudes intentions. That the way it is!. Regards, KK. ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] A-format panner.
Augustine, is this yours?: http://augustine.leudar.com/events.htm Lovely ideas, I have been working on VERY similar concepts for years. As the interactive forest place… very nice. Congrats. ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] A-format panner.
I agree with Jörn, doing this in analogue, today, for anything else than enacting a zen koan to enlighten apprentices, seems decidedly weird... but that's part of the point about art, right? If you really, really want to do analogue Ambisonic stuff, I suggest you look at the two (hand written!) reports on Ambisonic technology Michael Gerzon wrote for the NRDC. I've put them in my Dropbox folder... https://www.dropbox.com/s/f5szcb2kty2x871/NRDC_technology_report_4_rotate.pdfand https://www.dropbox.com/s/93dybs6uubfa567/NRDC_technology_report_3_rotate_b.pdf Note that the 'rotate' in the file names does _not_ refer to Ambisonics, but the orientation of the original scanner images [?] It was them and the Studio Sound articles (which are, I think, in the Ambisonic Motherlode) from which I built most of my analogue Ambisonic controls (before I saw the light and started writing plugins) Dave On 26 September 2013 22:01, Jörn Nettingsmeier netti...@stackingdwarves.net wrote: hi all! re-reading my post, i notice that it could be construed as somewhat hostile in tone. this was unintended, and i'd like to apologise if anybody has taken offense. On 09/26/2013 02:01 PM, Jörn Nettingsmeier wrote: On 09/26/2013 09:21 AM, Kan Kaban wrote: Our initial idea is to keep signals / conversions into the analogue domain. this remark probably triggered it - it feels as if you asked how to perform a triple salto while your initial idea is to put your feet in a cubic yard of wet concrete and wait for it to set... ;-D i have the utmost respect for the circuitry wizards who could do all this in analog electronics while i was busy waiting to be conceived. then again, i also had the questionable pleasure to work with a mark v soundfield processor that hadn't seen calibration and servicing in a loong while, and the behaviour of the controls and the system as a whole was somewhat erratic, to put it mildly. now i understand the mark v stems from the secular period of soundfield inc, a time where it was no longer graced by the wharfedale virgins and calrec wizards. even so, doing this in analog, today, for anything else than enacting a zen koan to enlighten apprentices, seems decidedly weird... all the best, jörn -- Jörn Nettingsmeier Lortzingstr. 11, 45128 Essen, Tel. +49 177 7937487 Meister für Veranstaltungstechnik (Bühne/Studio) Tonmeister VDT http://stackingdwarves.net __**_ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/**mailman/listinfo/sursoundhttps://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -- -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20131007/948babe2/attachment.html -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 96 bytes Desc: not available URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20131007/948babe2/attachment.gif ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] A-format panner.
Thanks a lot for those papers. Beautiful. Same month year of my birth. Yes, I´ll do ambisonics and I´ll stay analogue as much as I can. There is a motive, but it is an artistic one. So, seems non sense to try to explain it here. You will just throw stones in my head just for that idea. Thanks a lot to everyone who´s been really helpful. KK. I agree with Jörn, doing this in analogue, today, for anything else than enacting a zen koan to enlighten apprentices, seems decidedly weird... but that's part of the point about art, right? If you really, really want to do analogue Ambisonic stuff, I suggest you look at the two (hand written!) reports on Ambisonic technology Michael Gerzon wrote for the NRDC. I've put them in my Dropbox folder... https://www.dropbox.com/s/f5szcb2kty2x871/NRDC_technology_report_4_rotate.pdfand https://www.dropbox.com/s/93dybs6uubfa567/NRDC_technology_report_3_rotate_b.pdf ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] A-format panner.
Thanks a lot for those papers. Beautiful. Same month year of my birth. Yes, I�ll do ambisonics and I�ll stay analogue as much as I can. There is a motive, but it is an artistic one. So, seems non sense to try to explain it here. Hey, we're all in the gutter ... but some of us look at the stars (if not all the time). Whatever, good luck with the project ... and, maybe, risk sharing it ... Michael You will just throw stones in my head just for that idea. Thanks a lot to everyone who�s been really helpful. KK. I agree with J�rn, doing this in analogue, today, for anything else than enacting a zen koan to enlighten apprentices, seems decidedly weird... but that's part of the point about art, right? If you really, really want to do analogue Ambisonic stuff, I suggest you look at the two (hand written!) reports on Ambisonic technology Michael Gerzon wrote for the NRDC. I've put them in my Dropbox folder... https://www.dropbox.com/s/f5szcb2kty2x871/NRDC_technology_report_4_rotate.pdfand https://www.dropbox.com/s/93dybs6uubfa567/NRDC_technology_report_3_rotate_b.pdf ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] A-format panner.
Thanks Mr. Chapman. Is nice to hear that from you. As soon as I have something… On Oct 7, 2013, at 12:45 PM, Michael Chapman s...@mchapman.com wrote: Hey, we're all in the gutter ... but some of us look at the stars (if not all the time). Whatever, good luck with the project ... and, maybe, risk sharing it ... Michael ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] A-format panner.
On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 12:15 PM, Eero Aro eero@dlc.fi wrote: The Soundfield microphone directional controls aren't exactly panning. Sorry to quibble, but if I feed a signal into the W and X inputs (with appropriate scaling) and ground Y and Z, then the soundfield controls on a Mk4 behave like a B-format panner. Right? Thanks for the schematics. The magic happens in VR9, labeled FSCB22A, which is a sine/cosine pot. Looks like you can still source them. The application is a shaft encoder for servos. http://www.meditronik.com.pl/doc/bourns/syp078085.pdf http://sakae-tsushin.co.jp/eng_page/pdf/pot/e_FSCB22A_FSCB30A_FSCB50A.pdf The soundfield controller uses two switches to select the quadrant and then a conventional pot. It does elevation too. Also, I notice that the transcoder has LF, RF, LB, RB inputs. I assume those are used to transcode quad to UHJ. Aaron (hel...@ai.sri.com) Menlo Park, CA US -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20130927/92d579c7/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] A-format panner.
Thanks a lot to everyone. We´ll continue research until the idea goes clearer. You have been very helpful. Cheers!. ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] A-format panner.
Aaron Heller wrote: Sorry to quibble, but if I feed a signal into the W and X inputs (with appropriate scaling) and ground Y and Z, then the soundfield controls on a Mk4 behave like a B-format panner. Right? You are right. The soundfield controller uses two switches to select the quadrant and then a conventional pot. It does elevation too. Yep. Audio Design also had a 1U box called B Format Converter (if I remember the name right). It was used for panning in four quadrants. You could feed the box from for example four AUX sends in a console and by selecting two Auxes you could place a mono sound somewhere in the soundfield. This box was horizontal only. Also, I notice that the transcoder has LF, RF, LB, RB inputs. I assume those are used to transcode quad to UHJ. Yes. If you look at the manual, you'll see that the so called Front stage was 180 degrees wide in front of the listener and the Rear stage was limited to 150 degrees in order to avoid too large phase differences in teh UHJ signal. I used the transcoder for all of the radio dramas I made in the nineties. The basic tool was the Quantec Room Simulator (a reverb), the rear outputs were routed to the Rear Stage of the Transcoder. Of course I panned also direct sounds to the rear, especially the sound effects. I usually kept the dialogue in the front. Eero ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
[Sursound] A-format panner.
Greetings to all Sursound list. First of all, thanks for all this years supporting Ambisonics. We´re a collective of audiovisual artists preparing for our next project. We have been researching ambisonics for the last few moths, seeding the possibility of it´s implementation. There are still some concerns regarding workflow. Our initial idea is to keep signals / conversions into the analogue domain. For example, analogue panners. I´ve stepped with very few B-format ideas on the internet, so I was wondering if there´s a case considering simple A-format panners, before AB converters. This eurorack module seems right for the task, right?: http://www.intellijel.com/eurorack-modules/planar/ But height information?. Are B-format panners somehow better? We know of the multiple ambisonics ITB plugins available, but again, we love ancient analogue qualities. Any info will be very appreciated, we´re really exited about this will love to share the results somewhere in the near future. Best regards. Gino. ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] A-format panner.
On 09/26/2013 09:21 AM, Kan Kaban wrote: Greetings to all Sursound list. First of all, thanks for all this years supporting Ambisonics. We´re a collective of audiovisual artists preparing for our next project. We have been researching ambisonics for the last few moths, seeding the possibility of it´s implementation. There are still some concerns regarding workflow. Our initial idea is to keep signals / conversions into the analogue domain. erm? For example, analogue panners. I´ve stepped with very few B-format ideas on the internet, so I was wondering if there´s a case considering simple A-format panners, before AB converters. This eurorack module seems right for the task, right?: http://www.intellijel.com/eurorack-modules/planar/ A-format panning as you call it has nothing to do with ambisonics per se, and the term frankly doesn't make much sense. the module you mention is a simple amplitude panner. so for your purposes, you might want to look into amplitude panning. but this has none of the characteristics of ambisonics. But height information?. Are B-format panners somehow better? We know of the multiple ambisonics ITB plugins available, but again, we love ancient analogue qualities. Any info will be very appreciated, we´re really exited about this will love to share the results somewhere in the near future. Best regards. Gino. for height, you will need vbap, and it's totally insane to even consider doing this in analog (just think of the operation to find the three nearest speakers for a given direction). unless it's actually pain you love, in which case you've struck a gold mine. now you _could_ implement an ambisonic with-height b-format panner in analog. likewise, i could have faxed you my reply in 2's complement, and you could have OCR'ed it back into your computer. it's needlessly complicated, a waste of resources, and unless the equipment is constantly being re-calibrated to perfect accuracy, the result will be so full of errors that it's pretty much pointless. -- Jörn Nettingsmeier Lortzingstr. 11, 45128 Essen, Tel. +49 177 7937487 Meister für Veranstaltungstechnik (Bühne/Studio) Tonmeister VDT http://stackingdwarves.net ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] A-format panner.
Thanks for your reply Jörn. You´ll have to excuse my basic english sentences, as it´s not my primary language. A-format panning as you call it has nothing to do with ambisonics per se, and the term frankly doesn't make much sense. the module you mention is a simple amplitude panner. so for your purposes, you might want to look into amplitude panning. but this has none of the characteristics of ambisonics. Yes, I know there´s no ambisonics until there is. The idea of amplitude panning, during A format stage, is to simplify an analogue path before b-format exists. Without plugins while possible. Soundfield B-format to 5.1 / 7.1 converter (http://www.soundfield.com/products/sp451.php) is actually hardware, so it seems interesting to make analogue panners (anywhere, amplitude or B signals) to keep audio into an analogue path like this: Quadraphonic (same to A-Format but without height?) keyboard or synth signals /// then an amplitude panner /// then the A to B converter /// then a B-format mixing stage /// the hole B-format mix to a Sounfield converter for 5.1 - 7.1 or anything else. now you _could_ implement an ambisonic with-height b-format panner in analog. likewise, i could have faxed you my reply in 2's complement, and you could have OCR'ed it back into your computer. it's needlessly complicated, a waste of resources, and unless the equipment is constantly being re-calibrated to perfect accuracy, the result will be so full of errors that it's pretty much pointless. Well, if there is some kind of B-format analogue panner we would also like to learn about it´s design, so we can actually see how pointless it is. The idea of panning quadraphonic packs seems easier to implement BEFORE an A to B converter. Does that exist?. I suppose something had to exist before DSP´s possibilities. Thanks again. Gino. El 26/09/2013, a las 7:01, Jörn Nettingsmeier netti...@stackingdwarves.net escribió: On 09/26/2013 09:21 AM, Kan Kaban wrote: Greetings to all Sursound list. First of all, thanks for all this years supporting Ambisonics. We´re a collective of audiovisual artists preparing for our next project. We have been researching ambisonics for the last few moths, seeding the possibility of it´s implementation. There are still some concerns regarding workflow. Our initial idea is to keep signals / conversions into the analogue domain. erm? For example, analogue panners. I´ve stepped with very few B-format ideas on the internet, so I was wondering if there´s a case considering simple A-format panners, before AB converters. This eurorack module seems right for the task, right?: http://www.intellijel.com/eurorack-modules/planar/ A-format panning as you call it has nothing to do with ambisonics per se, and the term frankly doesn't make much sense. the module you mention is a simple amplitude panner. so for your purposes, you might want to look into amplitude panning. but this has none of the characteristics of ambisonics. But height information?. Are B-format panners somehow better? We know of the multiple ambisonics ITB plugins available, but again, we love ancient analogue qualities. Any info will be very appreciated, we´re really exited about this will love to share the results somewhere in the near future. Best regards. Gino. for height, you will need vbap, and it's totally insane to even consider doing this in analog (just think of the operation to find the three nearest speakers for a given direction). unless it's actually pain you love, in which case you've struck a gold mine. now you _could_ implement an ambisonic with-height b-format panner in analog. likewise, i could have faxed you my reply in 2's complement, and you could have OCR'ed it back into your computer. it's needlessly complicated, a waste of resources, and unless the equipment is constantly being re-calibrated to perfect accuracy, the result will be so full of errors that it's pretty much pointless. -- Jörn Nettingsmeier Lortzingstr. 11, 45128 Essen, Tel. +49 177 7937487 Meister für Veranstaltungstechnik (Bühne/Studio) Tonmeister VDT http://stackingdwarves.net ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] A-format panner.
A first-order B-format panner needs to implement the equations W = S * sqrt(1/2) X = S * cos(az) * cos(el) Y = S * sin(az) * cos(el) Z = S * sin(el) where S is the signal being panned and az and el define the direction. The Calrec Soundfield MkIV controller box has analog circuitry for something like this in the Soundfield Controls section. Take a look at http://ambisonics.dreamhosters.com/schematic-4.pdf and http://ambisonics.dreamhosters.com/MkIV-Tech-Manual.pdf to see how Ken Farrar and Richard Lee did it. Aaron (hel...@ai.sri.com) Menlo Park, CA US On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 10:20 AM, Kan Kaban kanka...@alivecinema.orgwrote: Thanks for your reply Jörn. You´ll have to excuse my basic english sentences, as it´s not my primary language. A-format panning as you call it has nothing to do with ambisonics per se, and the term frankly doesn't make much sense. the module you mention is a simple amplitude panner. so for your purposes, you might want to look into amplitude panning. but this has none of the characteristics of ambisonics. Yes, I know there´s no ambisonics until there is. The idea of amplitude panning, during A format stage, is to simplify an analogue path before b-format exists. Without plugins while possible. Soundfield B-format to 5.1 / 7.1 converter (http://www.soundfield.com/products/sp451.php) is actually hardware, so it seems interesting to make analogue panners (anywhere, amplitude or B signals) to keep audio into an analogue path like this: Quadraphonic (same to A-Format but without height?) keyboard or synth signals /// then an amplitude panner /// then the A to B converter /// then a B-format mixing stage /// the hole B-format mix to a Sounfield converter for 5.1 - 7.1 or anything else. now you _could_ implement an ambisonic with-height b-format panner in analog. likewise, i could have faxed you my reply in 2's complement, and you could have OCR'ed it back into your computer. it's needlessly complicated, a waste of resources, and unless the equipment is constantly being re-calibrated to perfect accuracy, the result will be so full of errors that it's pretty much pointless. Well, if there is some kind of B-format analogue panner we would also like to learn about it´s design, so we can actually see how pointless it is. The idea of panning quadraphonic packs seems easier to implement BEFORE an A to B converter. Does that exist?. I suppose something had to exist before DSP´s possibilities. Thanks again. Gino. El 26/09/2013, a las 7:01, Jörn Nettingsmeier netti...@stackingdwarves.net escribió: On 09/26/2013 09:21 AM, Kan Kaban wrote: Greetings to all Sursound list. First of all, thanks for all this years supporting Ambisonics. We´re a collective of audiovisual artists preparing for our next project. We have been researching ambisonics for the last few moths, seeding the possibility of it´s implementation. There are still some concerns regarding workflow. Our initial idea is to keep signals / conversions into the analogue domain. erm? For example, analogue panners. I´ve stepped with very few B-format ideas on the internet, so I was wondering if there´s a case considering simple A-format panners, before AB converters. This eurorack module seems right for the task, right?: http://www.intellijel.com/eurorack-modules/planar/ A-format panning as you call it has nothing to do with ambisonics per se, and the term frankly doesn't make much sense. the module you mention is a simple amplitude panner. so for your purposes, you might want to look into amplitude panning. but this has none of the characteristics of ambisonics. But height information?. Are B-format panners somehow better? We know of the multiple ambisonics ITB plugins available, but again, we love ancient analogue qualities. Any info will be very appreciated, we´re really exited about this will love to share the results somewhere in the near future. Best regards. Gino. for height, you will need vbap, and it's totally insane to even consider doing this in analog (just think of the operation to find the three nearest speakers for a given direction). unless it's actually pain you love, in which case you've struck a gold mine. now you _could_ implement an ambisonic with-height b-format panner in analog. likewise, i could have faxed you my reply in 2's complement, and you could have OCR'ed it back into your computer. it's needlessly complicated, a waste of resources, and unless the equipment is constantly being re-calibrated to perfect accuracy, the result will be so full of errors that it's pretty much pointless. -- Jörn Nettingsmeier Lortzingstr. 11, 45128 Essen, Tel. +49 177 7937487 Meister für Veranstaltungstechnik (Bühne/Studio) Tonmeister VDT http://stackingdwarves.net ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu
Re: [Sursound] A-format panner.
Well, if there is some kind of B-format analogue panner we would also like to learn about it´s design Audio Design sold a Pan-Rotate Unit. There is a picture of it down here: http://www.ambisonic.net/branwell_arb.html The Soundfield microphone directional controls aren't exactly panning. The Pan/Rotate had eight mono inputs, all of which could be panned 360 degrees horizontally. It also had a B-format input. Both the panned mono sources and the B-format input went through a so called Rotate control, which allowed the complete soundfield to be rotated around the listener. The Rotate part is soewhat similar to the Soundfield Controls. I have the Pan/Rotate schematic somewhere. I'll dig it out. It should be in the Motherlode, but possibly not renamed and has some strange filename. Eero ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] A-format panner.
If you have any kind of calibration involved, rotating before running the A to B process makes that calibration meaningless. In fact, I'd say that one of the main reasons B-format exists is precisely that it makes processing like rotations a reasonable and general thing to do. David McGriffy VVAudio On 9/26/2013 2:15 PM, Eero Aro wrote: Well, if there is some kind of B-format analogue panner we would also like to learn about it´s design ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] A-format panner.
David McGriffy wrote: On 9/26/2013 2:15 PM, Eero Aro wrote: Well, if there is some kind of B-format analogue panner we would also like to learn about it´s design Wrong quote, I didn't write that. - - - However, here you are: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/22100835/Audio_Design_Ambisonic%20Pan_Rotate_Unit_schematic_AD_1985.pdf https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/22100835/Audio%20Design_Ambisonic%20mastering%20package_User%20Manual_date%20unknown.pdf https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/22100835/Audio_Design%20Mastering%20package_AD_1984.pdf https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/22100835/AD%20Pan%20Rotate%20Rear.jpg https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/22100835/AD%20Pan%20Rotate%20Front.jpg And the answer is no, I don't have the component values to the Pan/Rotate Unit. I do have the component values to the Audio Design Transcoder and Decoder. Eero ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] A-format panner.
hi all! re-reading my post, i notice that it could be construed as somewhat hostile in tone. this was unintended, and i'd like to apologise if anybody has taken offense. On 09/26/2013 02:01 PM, Jörn Nettingsmeier wrote: On 09/26/2013 09:21 AM, Kan Kaban wrote: Our initial idea is to keep signals / conversions into the analogue domain. this remark probably triggered it - it feels as if you asked how to perform a triple salto while your initial idea is to put your feet in a cubic yard of wet concrete and wait for it to set... ;-D i have the utmost respect for the circuitry wizards who could do all this in analog electronics while i was busy waiting to be conceived. then again, i also had the questionable pleasure to work with a mark v soundfield processor that hadn't seen calibration and servicing in a loong while, and the behaviour of the controls and the system as a whole was somewhat erratic, to put it mildly. now i understand the mark v stems from the secular period of soundfield inc, a time where it was no longer graced by the wharfedale virgins and calrec wizards. even so, doing this in analog, today, for anything else than enacting a zen koan to enlighten apprentices, seems decidedly weird... all the best, jörn -- Jörn Nettingsmeier Lortzingstr. 11, 45128 Essen, Tel. +49 177 7937487 Meister für Veranstaltungstechnik (Bühne/Studio) Tonmeister VDT http://stackingdwarves.net ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] A-format panner.
Those are lovely photographs Eero (auto-correction changed your name), thank you. Maybe someday I´ll ask for those components values, when there´s enough time to solder them! I do have the component values to the Audio Design Transcoder and Decoder. Eero -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20130926/422b670b/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] A-format panner.
Mathematically, _if_ you have a perfect A-format signal set (from some theoretical tetrahedral mic) then it can be panned. For the _simple_ case of a yaw of X degrees, then A' = ( A(1+cosX) + B(-sinX) + C(sinX) + D(1-cosX) ) /2 B' = ... etc. _I_think_ (this was very quick on the back of an envelope!). Taking the message about jumping in the deep end ... for comparison, to yaw (A degrees) in B-format (IIRC) is the relatively simple: W' = W X' = X.cosA - Y.sinA Y' = X.sinA + Y.cosA Z' = Z Michael ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
