Re: [Sursound] MEMS speakers (Joe Hayes)

[A3D Sound]

>That would be pretty cool - an adaptive system where for lower frequencies
you use more audiopixels,
>for higher frequencies you use less, and of course the higher the
frequency the more accurate localisation would be.
>
>best, Justin
>
>
>Justin Bennett
>
>jus...@justinbennett.nl
>www.justinbennett.nl
>http://jubilee-art.org/

We want to use mems speakers in an array under the A3D algorithm. By using
say a 7 x 1 array of memes speakers you will create a highly energy
efficient speaker with maximal bass. This could be a TV or automotive
tweeter and use a normal piston bass driver below the frequencies the mems
cannot reproduce.

An A3D array can be either one or two dimensional and is based on any prime
number you like. So an audio pixel mems is 1cm x 1cm and has 32 columns
and rows of pixels. You could use a prime number like 31. I would A3D in
the lateral only. It could be 31 x 31 mems speakers but the vertical
columns would be all in the same phase/wiring. The number of channels
required is RND(Prime/2) = RND(31/2) = 16 channels. The bandwidth is
limited by the mems width + spacing in between. Say 1.2cm. So top end
wavelength = 1.2cm x 2 = 2.4cm say 14.3kHz. The bottom end of bandwidth =
top end/(prime-1) = 14.3kHz/(31-1) = 14.3kHz/30 = 476Hz. So you create a
great mid and high range driver (476Hz to 14,300Hz) with
perfect unidirectionality using a prime = 31 of mems drivers.

-- 
Joe Hayes
CTO
Acoustic3D Holdings Ltd
ACN: 150521092
www.vastigo.com
joe.ha...@acoustic3d.com
Mb(AU): +61 423 172 933 
Mb(CN): +86 1 32 438 52412
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Re: [Sursound] MEMS speakers

[Dave Malham]

Hi Justin,
Back in 1999, a student of mine, Alexis Cohen, did his Masters on what
we then called "Hyperdense Transducer Arrays", an idea that I was kicking
around at the time - you can see a hint of it my June 1999 AES UK
conference paper "Homogeneous and Non-Homogeneous Surround Sound Systems",
though without the name. Basically, the idea is that as the angular acuity
of our hearing is about 1 degree at best we should have a speaker every
degree. In the paper I published a very rough and ready way of estimating
how many speakers you'd need which came to about 1 (according to my
paper, I'm not thinking about re-calculating it just now!). We realised
that you didn't need to drive them individually if you spread DSP chips
about the array and fed these from a (very) HOA set of signals. The DSP's
each do decodes for the closest loudspeakers. Back of the envelope
calculations said it could done for a few millions (parts cost) even back
then. Alexis's proposed solution to the bass problem was to shade off the
order of the HOA as the frequency drops, resulting in the sound being
spread over more speakers. I'm almost certain that Ricardo (Lee) has
mentioned something similar in the past.  Anyway, none of this was ever
actually implemented but maybe now is the time for someone new to take up
the idea and run with it

On 21 January 2018 at 11:55, Justin Bennett  wrote:

>
> > On 20 Jan 2018, at 18:00, sursound-requ...@music.vt.edu wrote:
> >
> > Message: 6
> > Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2018 15:36:43 +
> > From: Augustine Leudar 
> > To: Surround Sound discussion group 
> > Subject: Re: [Sursound] MEMS speakers
> >
> >
> > Youd have to have "patches" of mems working in unison  I guess to get the
> > lower frequencies . You might be abvle to do soemthing interesting with
> the
> > ultrasonic methods the directional "zone" speakers use as well….
>
> That would be pretty cool - an adaptive system where for lower frequencies
> you use more audiopixels,
> for higher frequencies you use less, and of course the higher the
> frequency the more accurate localisation would be.
>
> best, Justin
>
>
> Justin Bennett
>
> jus...@justinbennett.nl
> www.justinbennett.nl
> http://jubilee-art.org/
>
>
>
> ___
> Sursound mailing list
> Sursound@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>



-- 

As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University.

These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University

Dave Malham
Honorary Fellow, Department of Music
The University of York
York YO10 5DD
UK

'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio'
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Re: [Sursound] MEMS speakers

[David Pickett]

I should have thought that these devices are so small that one ought 
to be able to anything with enough of them in strategically designed 
and positioned arrays.


David

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Re: [Sursound] MEMS speakers

[Jack Reynolds]

Like wavefield synthesis

Sent from my iPhone

> On 21 Jan 2018, at 11:55, Justin Bennett  wrote:
> 
> 
>> On 20 Jan 2018, at 18:00, sursound-requ...@music.vt.edu wrote:
>> 
>> Message: 6
>> Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2018 15:36:43 +
>> From: Augustine Leudar 
>> To: Surround Sound discussion group 
>> Subject: Re: [Sursound] MEMS speakers
>> 
>> 
>> Youd have to have "patches" of mems working in unison  I guess to get the
>> lower frequencies . You might be abvle to do soemthing interesting with the
>> ultrasonic methods the directional "zone" speakers use as well….
> 
> That would be pretty cool - an adaptive system where for lower frequencies 
> you use more audiopixels,
> for higher frequencies you use less, and of course the higher the frequency 
> the more accurate localisation would be.
> 
> best, Justin
> 
> 
> Justin Bennett
> 
> jus...@justinbennett.nl
> www.justinbennett.nl
> http://jubilee-art.org/
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Sursound] MEMS speakers

[Justin Bennett]

> On 20 Jan 2018, at 18:00, sursound-requ...@music.vt.edu wrote:
> 
> Message: 6
> Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2018 15:36:43 +
> From: Augustine Leudar 
> To: Surround Sound discussion group 
> Subject: Re: [Sursound] MEMS speakers
> 
> 
> Youd have to have "patches" of mems working in unison  I guess to get the
> lower frequencies . You might be abvle to do soemthing interesting with the
> ultrasonic methods the directional "zone" speakers use as well….

That would be pretty cool - an adaptive system where for lower frequencies you 
use more audiopixels,
for higher frequencies you use less, and of course the higher the frequency the 
more accurate localisation would be.

best, Justin


Justin Bennett

jus...@justinbennett.nl
www.justinbennett.nl
http://jubilee-art.org/



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Re: [Sursound] MEMS speakers

[Augustine Leudar]

Youd have to have "patches" of mems working in unison  I guess to get the
lower frequencies . You might be abvle to do soemthing interesting with the
ultrasonic methods the directional "zone" speakers use as well

On 20 January 2018 at 12:12, Jörn Nettingsmeier <
netti...@stackingdwarves.net> wrote:

> On 01/19/2018 08:04 PM, Gary Gallagher wrote:
>
>> Wave field synthesis wall paper? How small does an an audio pixel have to
>> be?
>>
>
>
> The question is more like "how big can you make it?". An audio "pixel" of
> a square millimetre cannot produce meaningful audio frequencies if
> suspended in mid-air without a baffle, you would have to get somewhat close
> to the wavelength. So no million-channel audio interfaces either, I guess
> the approach would be to use lots of those pixels in unison. How you ensure
> good airtight coupling between them is one question, and the other is how
> much excursion you can get.
>
> Thiele-Small parameters for silicon cavities, anyone? :-D
>
> It's quite a moonshot actually, and if you start thinking about the
> complexities, that carbon nanosheet paper that came from China a few years
> back doesn't sound soo far-fetched anymore, where people were producing
> sound by heating surfaces with an extremely good heat conductivity (so its
> thermal cycles can be at audio frequencies). Problem there is 100% k2, as
> it's effectively a half-wave rectifier...
>
>
> --
> Jörn Nettingsmeier
> De Rijpgracht 8, 1055VR Amsterdam, Nederland
> Tel. +49 177 7937487
>
> Meister für Veranstaltungstechnik (Bühne/Studio), Tonmeister VDT
> http://stackingdwarves.net
>
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-- 
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
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Re: [Sursound] MEMS speakers

[Jörn Nettingsmeier]

On 01/20/2018 01:12 PM, Jörn Nettingsmeier wrote:

On 01/19/2018 08:04 PM, Gary Gallagher wrote:

Wave field synthesis wall paper? How small does an an audio pixel have to
be?



The question is more like "how big can you make it?". An audio "pixel" 
of a square millimetre cannot produce meaningful audio frequencies if 
suspended in mid-air without a baffle, you would have to get somewhat 
close to the wavelength. So no million-channel audio interfaces either, 
I guess the approach would be to use lots of those pixels in unison. How 
you ensure good airtight coupling between them is one question, and the 
other is how much excursion you can get.


Thiele-Small parameters for silicon cavities, anyone? :-D

It's quite a moonshot actually, and if you start thinking about the 
complexities, that carbon nanosheet paper that came from China a few 
years back doesn't sound soo far-fetched anymore, where people were 
producing sound by heating surfaces with an extremely good heat 
conductivity (so its thermal cycles can be at audio frequencies). 
Problem there is 100% k2, as it's effectively a half-wave rectifier...


Hit send too fast - meant to add that Fraunhofer in Germany has been 
doing research on MEMS drivers for in-ear systems for a while, and they 
combine the output of a cascade of laterally compressed nanomechanical 
cavities in series to drive the eardrum.



--
Jörn Nettingsmeier
De Rijpgracht 8, 1055VR Amsterdam, Nederland
Tel. +49 177 7937487

Meister für Veranstaltungstechnik (Bühne/Studio), Tonmeister VDT
http://stackingdwarves.net
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Re: [Sursound] MEMS speakers

[Jörn Nettingsmeier]

On 01/19/2018 08:04 PM, Gary Gallagher wrote:

Wave field synthesis wall paper? How small does an an audio pixel have to
be?



The question is more like "how big can you make it?". An audio "pixel" 
of a square millimetre cannot produce meaningful audio frequencies if 
suspended in mid-air without a baffle, you would have to get somewhat 
close to the wavelength. So no million-channel audio interfaces either, 
I guess the approach would be to use lots of those pixels in unison. How 
you ensure good airtight coupling between them is one question, and the 
other is how much excursion you can get.


Thiele-Small parameters for silicon cavities, anyone? :-D

It's quite a moonshot actually, and if you start thinking about the 
complexities, that carbon nanosheet paper that came from China a few 
years back doesn't sound soo far-fetched anymore, where people were 
producing sound by heating surfaces with an extremely good heat 
conductivity (so its thermal cycles can be at audio frequencies). 
Problem there is 100% k2, as it's effectively a half-wave rectifier...



--
Jörn Nettingsmeier
De Rijpgracht 8, 1055VR Amsterdam, Nederland
Tel. +49 177 7937487

Meister für Veranstaltungstechnik (Bühne/Studio), Tonmeister VDT
http://stackingdwarves.net
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Re: [Sursound] MEMS speakers

[Charlie Richmond]

SoundMan-Server is a virtual matrix that has up to 1k discrete inputs and
outputs with dynamic level, eq and delay controls at each crosspoint if
that helps at all.

Charlie

On Fri, Jan 19, 2018 at 5:14 PM, Augustine Leudar  wrote:

> exactly what I was thinking Gary - except youd need a million channel
> interface - there's be other ways though. Basically it would be a good way
> of getting 3D audio into peoples homes - as noone can either be bothered to
> set up even 4 speakers let alone some fancy atmos setup. So some kind of
> wallpaper would possibly work, something that requires almost zero setup
> anyway...
>
> On 19 January 2018 at 19:04, Gary Gallagher 
> wrote:
>
> > Wave field synthesis wall paper? How small does an an audio pixel have to
> > be?
> >
> > On Wed, Jan 17, 2018, 20:25 Augustine Leudar 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Interesting. I can think of a lot of applications for these and
> > spatial
> > > audio
> > >
> > > On Wednesday, 17 January 2018, Gary Gallagher  >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > https://hackaday.com/2018/01/16/new-part-day-mems-
> > > > loudspeakers/?_utm_source=1-2-2
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> > here,
> > > > edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Dr. Augustine Leudar
> > > Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
> > > Company Number : NI635217
> > > Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
> > > Belfast BT88LL
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>
>
>
> --
> Dr. Augustine Leudar
> Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
> Company Number : NI635217
> Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
> Belfast BT88LL
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-- 
* Charlie Richmond - http://www.RichmondSoundDesign.com

* Viber: +16047159441 Skype, LinkedIn & Twitter: charlierichmond
* facebook: charlie.richmond
* facebook.com/pages/Richmond-Sound-Design-Ltd/130195960832

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Re: [Sursound] MEMS speakers

[Augustine Leudar]

exactly what I was thinking Gary - except youd need a million channel
interface - there's be other ways though. Basically it would be a good way
of getting 3D audio into peoples homes - as noone can either be bothered to
set up even 4 speakers let alone some fancy atmos setup. So some kind of
wallpaper would possibly work, something that requires almost zero setup
anyway...

On 19 January 2018 at 19:04, Gary Gallagher  wrote:

> Wave field synthesis wall paper? How small does an an audio pixel have to
> be?
>
> On Wed, Jan 17, 2018, 20:25 Augustine Leudar 
> wrote:
>
> > Interesting. I can think of a lot of applications for these and
> spatial
> > audio
> >
> > On Wednesday, 17 January 2018, Gary Gallagher 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > https://hackaday.com/2018/01/16/new-part-day-mems-
> > > loudspeakers/?_utm_source=1-2-2
> > > -- next part --
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> here,
> > > edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Dr. Augustine Leudar
> > Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
> > Company Number : NI635217
> > Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
> > Belfast BT88LL
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-- 
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Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
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Re: [Sursound] MEMS speakers

[Gary Gallagher]

Wave field synthesis wall paper? How small does an an audio pixel have to
be?

On Wed, Jan 17, 2018, 20:25 Augustine Leudar 
wrote:

> Interesting. I can think of a lot of applications for these and spatial
> audio
>
> On Wednesday, 17 January 2018, Gary Gallagher 
> wrote:
>
> > https://hackaday.com/2018/01/16/new-part-day-mems-
> > loudspeakers/?_utm_source=1-2-2
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> >
>
>
> --
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> Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
> Company Number : NI635217
> Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
> Belfast BT88LL
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Re: [Sursound] MEMS speakers

[Augustine Leudar]

Interesting. I can think of a lot of applications for these and spatial
audio

On Wednesday, 17 January 2018, Gary Gallagher 
wrote:

> https://hackaday.com/2018/01/16/new-part-day-mems-
> loudspeakers/?_utm_source=1-2-2
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-- 
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Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
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[Sursound] MEMS speakers

[Gary Gallagher]

https://hackaday.com/2018/01/16/new-part-day-mems-loudspeakers/?_utm_source=1-2-2
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