Re: [biofuel]runaways

[JOSEPH . MARTELLE]

Please respond to biofuel@yahoogroups.com

To:   biofuel@yahoogroups.com
cc:(bcc: Joseph Martelle/US/GM/GMC)
Subject:  Re: [biofuel] Why you should fit a MIL




I have also seen Diesel engines on cars in some countries with this
arrangement. If the engine has a mechanical fuel pump they will run all day
without any electrical input. Some injection pumps have an electrical
solenoid that controls fuel supply and therefore is the usual way to stop
the engine.

~~~Most of them do. Even Cummins PT engines, which don't have an injection pump,
have electric solenoids to shut off the fuel supply. There is also a manual
override that will keep the fuel on w/o electricity. (battery failure) Add an
air starter, and you can have an engine that requires no electrical devices at
all to operate.JM

 A lot of more modern Diesel engines have an electrically driven
injection pump and the engine stops when the electric is cut off. I believe
that many of the larger Diesel engines commonly are stopped by depriving of
air supply. In the case of a "runaway engine" where the engine is running on
fuel sucked past the rings from the crankcase or from fuel sucked in through
the air intake from a leaking turbo or from combustible gas in the
environment, the only way to stop the engine is to stop the air supply, or
occasionally with a lot of luck to overload the engine -- i.e., have it in
gear and brake like crazy.

~~~Larger diesels are shut down by depriving them of fuel. DDAs (detroit diesel
allison) are large two stroke diesels that have butterflies in the intake to
deprive them of air in case of a runaway. These engines can run on their own
engine oil sucked through the air box if the seals fail from blocking the intake
at high RPMs. When this happens, and you cannot stop the engine by putting it in
gear

Derek W. Hargis



> Steve,
> Bit of a worry that gas in the air supply. How would you shut down the air
> supply? Friend says he once worked on a diesel engine that had a butterfly
> valve in the inlet (thinks it was a stationary engine), perhaps that was
> what the valve was for?
> Any thoughts on why it would be fitted otherwise?
> Paul
>

>
>
> > Unless you have the ability to shutdown the air supply, diesels have
been
> > known to race uncontrollably: A) if crankcase oil gets suctioned in b)
if
> > there is a flammable gas in the air (saw this near a lp filling station)
> >
> > usual result is many small parts over large area :-)
> >
> >
>







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Re: [biofuel] Alcohol into biodiesel

[dhargis1]

All that I recall is that I purchased the oil in a health food store in
Spain. It was delicious. I believe it was produced in Catalonia, but I don't
recall the manufacturer. It was a long time ago. You might try a local
health food store. Ask for "Aceite hecho de granos de uva."

Derek W. Hargis


- Original Message -
From: "Pedro M." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 3:02 PM
Subject: Re: [biofuel] Alcohol into biodiesel


> Can you send me the information ???. I can publish it in the vegetable oil
> page ;)
>
> On the other hand, it«s interesting investigate ( by private research
> companies, universities and public organizatios ) the possibility of a
> process to convert alcohol or similar grape products into oil.
>
> All the best.
> - Original Message -
> From: "dhargis1" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 1:09 PM
> Subject: Re: [biofuel] Alcohol into biodiesel
>
>
> > There is a very fine edible oil made from grape pits in Spain. A very
nice
> > delicate oil, fabulous for salads, unfortunately, quite expensive.
> >
> > I am not aware of any economical process to turn ethanol into a usable
> oil.
> >
> > Derek W. Hargis
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Pedro M." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 2:17 PM
> > Subject: Re: [biofuel] Alcohol into biodiesel
> >
> >
> > > But in any way, can one get oil from alcohol or from vineyard ???.
> > >
> > > This is interesting, because in Spain there is a lot of vineyard
> > production
> > > ( grapes ) that could be used to produce some class of oil .
> >
> >
> >
> > Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address.
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> >
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http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
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Re: [biofuel] Vinegar into oil

[dhargis1]

I think the problem with both, ethanol and acetic acid, vinegar, is that the
carbon chain isn't long enough. There are reactions to combine carbon chains
and lengthen them, but I don't know if they would be cheap enough to compete
with what nature does for you in the form of naturally occurring oils.

Spain has a lot of other natural oils. They are one of the world's largest
producers of olives, several different nuts, and the last time I visited,
there were huge fields of sunflowers.

Derek W. Hargis


- Original Message -
From: "Pedro M." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 3:15 PM
Subject: Re: [biofuel] Vinegar into oil


> What about get oil from vinegar ?? :? ( CH3-COOH ) or similar vinegar
bypass
> product ???.
>
> All the best.
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "dhargis1" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 1:09 PM
> Subject: Re: [biofuel] Alcohol into biodiesel
>
>
> > There is a very fine edible oil made from grape pits in Spain. A very
nice
> > delicate oil, fabulous for salads, unfortunately, quite expensive.
> >
> > I am not aware of any economical process to turn ethanol into a usable
> oil.
> >
> > Derek W. Hargis
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Pedro M." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 2:17 PM
> > Subject: Re: [biofuel] Alcohol into biodiesel
> >
> >
> > > But in any way, can one get oil from alcohol or from vineyard ???.
> > >
> > > This is interesting, because in Spain there is a lot of vineyard
> > production
> > > ( grapes ) that could be used to produce some class of oil .
> >



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Re: [biofuel] Why you should fit a MIL

[dhargis1]

I have also seen Diesel engines on cars in some countries with this
arrangement. If the engine has a mechanical fuel pump they will run all day
without any electrical input. Some injection pumps have an electrical
solenoid that controls fuel supply and therefore is the usual way to stop
the engine. A lot of more modern Diesel engines have an electrically driven
injection pump and the engine stops when the electric is cut off. I believe
that many of the larger Diesel engines commonly are stopped by depriving of
air supply. In the case of a "runaway engine" where the engine is running on
fuel sucked past the rings from the crankcase or from fuel sucked in through
the air intake from a leaking turbo or from combustible gas in the
environment, the only way to stop the engine is to stop the air supply, or
occasionally with a lot of luck to overload the engine -- i.e., have it in
gear and brake like crazy.

Derek W. Hargis

- Original Message -
From: "Paul Gobert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 11:14 PM
Subject: Re: [biofuel] Why you should fit a MIL


> Steve,
> Bit of a worry that gas in the air supply. How would you shut down the air
> supply? Friend says he once worked on a diesel engine that had a butterfly
> valve in the inlet (thinks it was a stationary engine), perhaps that was
> what the valve was for?
> Any thoughts on why it would be fitted otherwise?
> Paul
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "steve spence" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 10:39 PM
> Subject: Re: [biofuel] Why you should fit a MIL
>
>
> > Unless you have the ability to shutdown the air supply, diesels have
been
> > known to race uncontrollably: A) if crankcase oil gets suctioned in b)
if
> > there is a flammable gas in the air (saw this near a lp filling station)
> >
> > usual result is many small parts over large area :-)
> >
> >
> > Steve Spence
> > Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter:
> > http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm
> >
> > Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.com
> > Palm Pilot Pages - http://www.webconx.com/palm
> > X10 Home Automation - http://www.webconx.com/x10
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > (212) 894-3704 x3154 - voicemail/fax
> > We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors,
> > we borrow it from our children.
> > --
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Paul Gobert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: 
> > Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2001 8:37 PM
> > Subject: Re: [biofuel] Why you should fit a MIL
> >
> >
> > > David,
> > > Thanks for the info, and for being so frank. You don't seem to have
much
> > > faith in my old Toyota.
> > > The smoke it blows is black not blue and very little oil is used
between
> > > changes,not enough to justify adding oil.
> > > It has always been a smokey engine despite attention to injectors etc.
> The
> > > ammount of smoke varies with engine load.  Keeping the revs between
> 2,500
> > > and 4,000 and using a small "throttle opening" minumises it. Adjusting
> the
> > > smoke screw only reduces the already inadequate performance. After
> 350,000
> > > km the rings are most probably worn as indicated by the vehicles
> tendency
> > to
> > > creep forwards when parked on a slope and restrained only by engine
> > braking,
> > > low-range first.
> > > The following may sound like an add but should be familiar.
> > > The Hilux is the most reliable,economical ,practicle vehicle I have
ever
> > > owned. (Lets not mention lack of comfort or character). Running costs
so
> > far
> > > (fuel, oil,grease,servicing,parts,
repairs,tyres,registration,insurance
> > etc)
> > > 11.9c/km.  Fuel consumption 10L/100km. Last set of front tyres lasted
> > > 81,000km,rears still going. Brakes relined 259,000 and 440,000.
> > > Exhaust system replaced 259,000 and currently in good condition.
> > > Clutch,gearbox,transfere case, front & rear diffs all origional.  Used
> > > daily, often carries load, current odometer reading 540,000km.  End of
> ad.
> > > and no I wouldn't sell it for quids.
> > > Lets consider the operation of 4 stroke diesel engines.
> > > unlike their petrol equivalent, diesels have no variable restriction
in
> > the
> > > inlet tract (butterfly in carb or air inlet for fuel injection). Oil
> > burning
> > > in the petrol 4 stroke is usually associated with worn rings/bore or
> > > faulty/worn valve guides or valve stem seals. It is most obvious when
> the
> > > air pressure inside the cylinder is substantially less than that in
the
> > > sump. Such conditions occur when the throttle is suddenly closed at
high
> > rpm
> > > or after prolonged idling. The diesel takes a full gulp of air at each
> > > intake stroke regardless of "throttle setting" so the difference in
> > pressure
> > > between cylinder and sump at induction is not so great especially with
> > > positive crankcase ventilation.
> > > The increased pressure and temperature of the diesel engine combustion
> > would
> > > probably burn the lubricating oil more effec

Re: [biofuel] Vinegar into oil

[Pedro M.]

What about get oil from vinegar ?? :? ( CH3-COOH ) or similar vinegar bypass
product ???.

All the best.


- Original Message -
From: "dhargis1" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 1:09 PM
Subject: Re: [biofuel] Alcohol into biodiesel


> There is a very fine edible oil made from grape pits in Spain. A very nice
> delicate oil, fabulous for salads, unfortunately, quite expensive.
>
> I am not aware of any economical process to turn ethanol into a usable
oil.
>
> Derek W. Hargis
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Pedro M." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 2:17 PM
> Subject: Re: [biofuel] Alcohol into biodiesel
>
>
> > But in any way, can one get oil from alcohol or from vineyard ???.
> >
> > This is interesting, because in Spain there is a lot of vineyard
> production
> > ( grapes ) that could be used to produce some class of oil .
>
>
>
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address.
> To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


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[biofuel] Do you yahoo?

[k5farms]

http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/wyff/20010522/lo/808991_1.html
Anyone can do one of these!


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Re: [biofuel] Alcohol into biodiesel

[Pedro M.]

Can you send me the information ???. I can publish it in the vegetable oil
page ;)

On the other hand, it«s interesting investigate ( by private research
companies, universities and public organizatios ) the possibility of a
process to convert alcohol or similar grape products into oil.

All the best.
- Original Message -
From: "dhargis1" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 1:09 PM
Subject: Re: [biofuel] Alcohol into biodiesel


> There is a very fine edible oil made from grape pits in Spain. A very nice
> delicate oil, fabulous for salads, unfortunately, quite expensive.
>
> I am not aware of any economical process to turn ethanol into a usable
oil.
>
> Derek W. Hargis
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Pedro M." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 2:17 PM
> Subject: Re: [biofuel] Alcohol into biodiesel
>
>
> > But in any way, can one get oil from alcohol or from vineyard ???.
> >
> > This is interesting, because in Spain there is a lot of vineyard
> production
> > ( grapes ) that could be used to produce some class of oil .
>
>
>
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address.
> To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


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Re: [biofuel] Alcohol into biodiesel

[dhargis1]

There is a very fine edible oil made from grape pits in Spain. A very nice
delicate oil, fabulous for salads, unfortunately, quite expensive.

I am not aware of any economical process to turn ethanol into a usable oil.

Derek W. Hargis
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


- Original Message -
From: "Pedro M." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 2:17 PM
Subject: Re: [biofuel] Alcohol into biodiesel


> But in any way, can one get oil from alcohol or from vineyard ???.
>
> This is interesting, because in Spain there is a lot of vineyard
production
> ( grapes ) that could be used to produce some class of oil .



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Re: [biofuel] Alcohol into biodiesel

[Pedro M.]

But in any way, can one get oil from alcohol or from vineyard ???.

This is interesting, because in Spain there is a lot of vineyard  production
( grapes ) that could be used to produce some class of oil .

All the best.


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Re: [biofuel] Biodiesel in a heating oil burner?

[jerry dycus]

Hi Gerry and All,
  For many years living aboard my sailboats I just
used a kerosene lamp for heat.
  What are the in's and out's of burning used veg
oil in wick type burners to keep soot , other nasties
low. 
   Has anyone burned SVO in a Kerosun type wick
burner, heater, any problems? 
  Here in Fla the heating season is short and
light so I was thinking of how to build a good, simple
heater for next year. Maybe using a 3" stove wick or 3
- 1" wicks.   
 I also just bought a propane refridgerator I'm
thinking about converting to SVO. Any thoughts?
Thanks, 
 jerry dycus
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> Asians tend to use lamps and burners with wicks.
> Whether it is kerosene, coconut oil or vegetable
> oil.
> Only problem is soot from long term usage.
> If multiple wicks burner are available and with
> proper chimney, you can
> have a heater fire going.
> I can still remember absorption refrigerator fired
> by kerosene with wick
> type burner.
> Just my thoughts.
> Gerry
> 
> 
> 


__
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
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Re: [biofuel] What about making engine oil?

[Pedro M.]

Vegoil is used by normal cars . I have seen a news in the newspaper about
it.

They uses 50 % vegoil and 50 % diesel in the diesel petro-motors.

The vegoil ( sunflower pure vegetable oil ) it«s cheaper than petrodiesel
and it«s used directly in the motor ( with 50 % petro-diesel ; I imagine one
can use 50  % biodiesel instead of petro-diesel, but I have read nothing
about this last ).

So, I think we need a VEGOIL website, about how to produce  oil from
vegetables ( and search cheaper prices from another vegetables ).

A way of life   ( and a way to save money ;)

All the best.
- Original Message -
From: "Paul Gobert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 10:59 PM
Subject: Re: [biofuel] What about making engine oil?


>
> > veggie oil is used by some racing cars and motorcycles
> > i dont know the trade name tho.
> > Ian
>
> Used to use Castrol R or Mobil P in the diffs of Peugeot 203,403,404.
> These have a brass worm wheel and a steel worm. Required diet was
vegetable
> oil.
> Paul
>
>
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
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>
>


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[biofuel] Engine oil and ADDITIVES - whistleblowing

[David Preskett]

List,

Engine oil already done. See http://www.agromgt.com/prod01.htm
Problem is it needs loadsa additives. Theirs is based on rape (canola) last
I heard coz its got a high (60%) oleic acid content, good in boundary
lubrication, thermal stability, etc. but its a start and I think their
philosophy is bang on course. Patent issued 1997- ish.

Additives are very nasty and its all kept very quiet by the additive
companies (Lubrizol, Henkel) although I enjoy treading on their toes.
Mineral oil is useless without additives and I've heard it said if these
companies stop production, the oil companies fall.

Its something I've been researching for about ten years now and which is why
I'm passionate about veg oils replacing mineral, whether for bio-diesel or
lubricants. Most lube oils and fuels contain scary compounds - chemists out
there should recognise dithiocarbamates, most of us have heard of
organo-phosphates. Well theres also organo-chlorine, organo-sulphur (smell
gear oil - hypoid EP90 - thats the sulphur). Heard about the fumes in
aircraft cabins and pilots passing out? - see muchos debatoes in UK
Parliament on tricresyl phosphate used in hydraulic oils (no action though).
Check it out and don't fly again.

Of course there's no relationship between these compounds and nerve gases!
That would mean they've been lying to us. These companies are f*g up the
world for us all.

Check out the list below, get some MSDS on these compounds (and don't ever
get mineral oil lubricants on your hands again). Note it is groups of
compounds, no specifics. Ring Lubrizol for a laugh and ask them what they
are.

Dispersants (metallic):
Salicylate ester salts, sulfonates, phophonates, thiophosphonates, phenates,
phenol sulphide, alkyl substituted salicyclates.

Dispersants (ashless):
Methacrylate copolymers and acrylate monomers with polar groups (amines,
amides, imines, imides, hydroxyl, ether, etc.), vinyl acetae-fumaric acid
coplymers, amine salts of high molecular weight organic acids, N-sustituted
long-chain alkenyl succiminides.

Oxidation and bearing corrosion inhibitors:
Organic phosphites, metal dithiocarbamates (ouch!!), sulfufrised olefins,
zinc dithiophosphate, phenolic compounds, selenides, amines,
phospho-sulphurised terpenes.

Anti-wear additives:
Organic phosphites, sulfufrised olefins, zinc dithiophosphate, alkaline
derivitaves.

Viscocity index improves:
Polyisobutenes, polymethacrylates, polyacrylates, methacrylate copolymers
and acrylate monomers with polar groups (amines, amides, imines, imides,
hydroxyl, ether, etc.), vinyl acetae-fumaric acid coplymers.

Pour point depressants (remember these before you winterise your bio-d):
Alkylated wax, napthalenes, polymethacrylates (0.05% in bio-d), alkylated
wax phenols.

Most are in engine oil for example up to 10% treatment rate, even more in
critical systems such as aircraft.

This makes me mad (well mad-dog f*&%$}g mad actually). Unsustainable,
unrenewable crap/bulls**t and lies.
Ask for an MSDS from these boys - none comes. Commercial confidentiality.
Bastards!

Solutions, well Ed B pointed out a good one. There is a patent, held by
Fuchs Petroleum in Germany (1997 priority date 30.10.97 reference:
DE19747854A1), of a car diesel engine using veg oil as a crankcase lube then
burning as a fuel. Problem is its held in a separate tank and proportionally
mixed with fuel from the main tank. What else is in the tank? Yup,
additives. Thats all they think of these oil companies. The technique isn't
new, trucks pull off engine oil as they go along and replace it with fresh,
the old being used as fuel. What Fuchs do is to draw off all the time. No
different to a stationary engine I saw described in Chemical Abstracts,
except that one did'nt use additivesmuch cleverer.

My research is suggesting that the use of additives in veg oils is
unesseary. The principles of use of veg oil as a lubricant starts from
studies in the 1920's where Langmuir (British physicist) recognised stearic
acid reduced the coefficient of friction on sliding surfaces greater than
that of mineral oil. This later became termed as boundary lubrication by WB
Hardy (another Brit) in the 1930's. Later still, the mechanism was explained
by Bowden and Tabor (Brits again I'm afraid) in the 1940's. The fatty acids
become attracted to the metal surfaces (because the FA's are polar,
something mineral oil is'nt) and a chemical reaction occurs forming metal
salts which are themselves the lubricants up to their respetive melting
points.

I firmly believe that in many situations, if you put in the additives I
listed above, you lose the natural ability of the fatty acids to act as
lubricants in the first place. THIS IS WHY BIODIESEL HAS ALL THE PROPERTIES
OF LUBRICITY WE KEEP BANGING ON ABOUT! Even the additive companies know this
and use fatty acids as additives (jojoba oil is a classic example of this in
EP applications).

Anymore whistleblowers out there?

thats my tuppence-worth (tanner's-worth even)

Re: [biofuel] What about making engine oil?

[Paul Gobert]

> veggie oil is used by some racing cars and motorcycles
> i dont know the trade name tho.
> Ian

Used to use Castrol R or Mobil P in the diffs of Peugeot 203,403,404.
These have a brass worm wheel and a steel worm. Required diet was vegetable
oil.
Paul


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Re: [biofuel] Why you should fit a MIL

[Paul Gobert]

David,
> ** If you have replaced the rings it dosnt suprise me that the vehicle
> smokes. What were the rings you used in replacement? Where they genuine
> Toyota rings?

Yes.  Engine was reconditioned by local Toyota Agent at 200,000km.
It was so far gone that I was using 40 grade oil in an effort stop the
running on fumes problem.
My did that oil pump sing on startup. Eventually compression was so low that
it wouldn't start at all.

This vehicle might not be a good candidate for a bypass oil filter at this
stage as you say but I'm restoring a Pug 504 which could benefit from one.
Still undecided whether to fit a petrol or diesel engine to it. Will all
hinge on my success or otherwise with biodiesel production.

Paul.


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Re: [biofuel] Why you should fit a MIL

[Paul Gobert]

Steve,
Bit of a worry that gas in the air supply. How would you shut down the air
supply? Friend says he once worked on a diesel engine that had a butterfly
valve in the inlet (thinks it was a stationary engine), perhaps that was
what the valve was for?
Any thoughts on why it would be fitted otherwise?
Paul

- Original Message -
From: "steve spence" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 10:39 PM
Subject: Re: [biofuel] Why you should fit a MIL


> Unless you have the ability to shutdown the air supply, diesels have been
> known to race uncontrollably: A) if crankcase oil gets suctioned in b) if
> there is a flammable gas in the air (saw this near a lp filling station)
>
> usual result is many small parts over large area :-)
>
>
> Steve Spence
> Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter:
> http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm
>
> Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.com
> Palm Pilot Pages - http://www.webconx.com/palm
> X10 Home Automation - http://www.webconx.com/x10
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> (212) 894-3704 x3154 - voicemail/fax
> We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors,
> we borrow it from our children.
> --
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Paul Gobert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2001 8:37 PM
> Subject: Re: [biofuel] Why you should fit a MIL
>
>
> > David,
> > Thanks for the info, and for being so frank. You don't seem to have much
> > faith in my old Toyota.
> > The smoke it blows is black not blue and very little oil is used between
> > changes,not enough to justify adding oil.
> > It has always been a smokey engine despite attention to injectors etc.
The
> > ammount of smoke varies with engine load.  Keeping the revs between
2,500
> > and 4,000 and using a small "throttle opening" minumises it. Adjusting
the
> > smoke screw only reduces the already inadequate performance. After
350,000
> > km the rings are most probably worn as indicated by the vehicles
tendency
> to
> > creep forwards when parked on a slope and restrained only by engine
> braking,
> > low-range first.
> > The following may sound like an add but should be familiar.
> > The Hilux is the most reliable,economical ,practicle vehicle I have ever
> > owned. (Lets not mention lack of comfort or character). Running costs so
> far
> > (fuel, oil,grease,servicing,parts, repairs,tyres,registration,insurance
> etc)
> > 11.9c/km.  Fuel consumption 10L/100km. Last set of front tyres lasted
> > 81,000km,rears still going. Brakes relined 259,000 and 440,000.
> > Exhaust system replaced 259,000 and currently in good condition.
> > Clutch,gearbox,transfere case, front & rear diffs all origional.  Used
> > daily, often carries load, current odometer reading 540,000km.  End of
ad.
> > and no I wouldn't sell it for quids.
> > Lets consider the operation of 4 stroke diesel engines.
> > unlike their petrol equivalent, diesels have no variable restriction in
> the
> > inlet tract (butterfly in carb or air inlet for fuel injection). Oil
> burning
> > in the petrol 4 stroke is usually associated with worn rings/bore or
> > faulty/worn valve guides or valve stem seals. It is most obvious when
the
> > air pressure inside the cylinder is substantially less than that in the
> > sump. Such conditions occur when the throttle is suddenly closed at high
> rpm
> > or after prolonged idling. The diesel takes a full gulp of air at each
> > intake stroke regardless of "throttle setting" so the difference in
> pressure
> > between cylinder and sump at induction is not so great especially with
> > positive crankcase ventilation.
> > The increased pressure and temperature of the diesel engine combustion
> would
> > probably burn the lubricating oil more effectively producing black smoke
> > from an enriched mixture.
> > Ring blowby also feeds oil fumes to the intake. The original engine in
the
> > Hilux was treated to some spray start (ether) by an unsympathetic
> unknowing
> > moron ( me) when it refused to start one winter. (Glow plugs coated with
> > soot don't warm the preignition chambers too well).  End result broken
> > rings. 50,000 km later things started to get interesting. The engine
began
> > to run on the crankcase fumes. Usually this would occur as the
"throttle"
> > was backed off just as a hill was crested. The engine would suddenly
roar
> > and rattle whilst belching black smoke from the exhaust. Very
> disconcerting
> > for those following. Not only would the engine run on the fumes but it
> would
> > accelerate. ( can't understand why when the ignition was occuring well
> > before injection point).The only way to calm it down was to apply the
> brakes
> > firmly until normal running resumed, don't know the theory behind this.
> > Braking was also disconcerting for those following. The only time I have
> > ever witnessed this in another vehicle was when a Diamond Rio was
> delivering
> > a load of coal to the factory where I worked. This was a spectacular
sight
> > and sound punctuated by th

Re: [biofuel] Coconut oil

[Keith Addison]

Hi Gerry

>Most of the coconut oil comes from mature coconuts.
>Coming from the equatorial belt, we have alot of 'fun ' with this nuts. We
>squeeze freshly grated mature coconut kernel to make coconut milk which is
>used in making thick curry gravy. You can't make the milk out of young
>green coconut because they are just not 'ripe' enough.
>Mature coconuts does contains the endosperm, it is not abosbed into the
>kernel.
>They are sun dried simply because the sun is free.
>
>Young coconuts are popular for refreshing cocktails (the water part) and
>thin sweet fresh.
>
>You get more bulk with the flesh from mature  nuts than the green nuts.
>True that the green nut's flesh can be expelled easily. But the villagers
>has all the time in the world and they are quite adapt at expelling flesh
>from the old nuts with the simple implement that they fashioned from steel.
>
>Gerry

What simple implement have they fashioned from steel? Can you 
describe it so a person could build one?

Best

Keith Addison
Journey to Forever
Handmade Projects
Tokyo
http://journeytoforever.org/

 


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RE: [biofuel] Water vs Energy Importance

[Keith Addison]

Hi Mike

>Keith,
>
>Nice to hear that you're from around the corner. I live in Hout Bay and know
>your travel route well.  Just about one of the most breath-taking ways of
>driving to work.

It's spectacular! Especially on a big bike. Almost a good enough 
reason to have a job (but not quite!). Via Silvermine's quicker, but 
who cares? I lived in Hout Bay too for awhile, very pleasant.

>Sea Point is still much the same

Yes, flatland. :-( Special place before they tore it down in the 60s.

>but Noordhoek has grown.  It has its own
>Mcdonalds.

Ulp! (WVO?) I used to live in Monkey Valley, I know that's changed a 
lot. The vlei was still extant then, the end of the African migratory 
route, and the sandveld flora. Is it still there, or have the wattles 
taken over completely? (Biomass, they were saying.)

>Although Long Beach is still pristine and we got that famous
>right breaker ( or is it left) near Kommetjie.

Where all the Endless Summers end, the ultimate wave. Should be 
right? Can't remember. Bit of competition from Geoffrey's Bay, was 
the issue ever settled?

>Ja broer, kom oor dan gaan vang ons kreef en maak u braai.

Lekker! You know then. I'll hold you to that! After you've shown me 
round your thriving biod factory, eh?

>Lekker om met jou te praat.

:-) Take care

Keith

>Mike
>
>Hey, Mike, ek se, scarf a kreef for me ou broe! And some pickled vis
>ook. I'm a hell of a long way from Sea Point! (born and raised)
>
>You're doing good, strength to your arm. They say the Cape Doctor
>blows all the dirt away, but it seemed to me it did just the opposite
>- before I left in 1976 I'd ride in to work from Noordhoek on my bike
>and at the top of Kloof Nek I'd see this brown fog hanging in there
>over the city at the foot of the mountain. Quite a few times I just
>turned round and went back to Noordhoek.
>
>All best
>
>Keith


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Re: [biofuel] Re: magnetic savings / alky + dyno / hard water /

[Keith Addison]

Hi David

>There are a number of things I still cant explain
>but because I cant explain them dosnt make them magic. Ninety nine % of the
>time there is a logical explantion. Forgive me if I am still critical.
>B.r.,  David

Pray keep it at 99%? Or even 99.9%? I'll get all upset if you go and 
eradicate ALL the magic. Some slight amount of magic, or at least the 
possibility of it, is absolutely essential, IMHO. I don't see a 
problem with saying that and also demanding rigour in science. But, 
but... do we smart-ass monkeys really, truly, understand anything 
much of what goes on around us all the time? We can try, and we must, 
and indeed we do, but the capacity for sheer wonder beyond any need 
for explanation is one of the (few?) things that might keep us from 
being monsters.

Keith Addison
Journey to Forever
Handmade Projects
Tokyo
http://journeytoforever.org/

 

>- Original Message -
>From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: 
>Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 11:16 AM
>Subject: [biofuel] Re: magnetic savings / alky + dyno / hard water /
>
>
>
>
>I use fuel line magnets myself, the rare earth variety out of the PC




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Re: [biofuel] magnetic savings / alky + dyno / hard water /

[David Sanz]

Yes, Ian. I'm testing (for one year ago) with very very stong neodymium 
magnets from used DC electric motor. A pair of them are in line fuel, 
and the other in intake.
... but, as I said before, nothing apparent occurs.

Regards
David

Si, Estoy probando (desde hace un a–o) con imanes muy muy potentes de 
nodimio procedentes de un motor elŽctrico de CC. Un par de ellos en la 
l’nea de fuel y el otro en la admisi—n.
...pero, como dije antes, nada ocurre aparentemente.

Saludos
David

ian wrote:

> if you want strong magnets, you can get very very strong neodynium magnets
> out of broken pc hard drives, they are small and great fun to play with.
> Ian
> - Original Message -
> From: David Sanz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 2:58 PM
> Subject: Re: [biofuel] magnetic savings / alky + dyno / hard water /
> 
> 
> 
> Magnets?
> I use permanent magnets on fuel lines and air intake in my diesel,
> but... aparently nothing happens.
> It's only my opinion.
> 
> David
> 
> Imanes?
> Uso imanes permanentes en las l’neas de fuel y en la toma de admisi—n de
> mi diesel, pero... aparentemente no mejora nada.
> Es s—lo mi opini—n.
> 
> David
> 
> Dick Carlstein wrote:
> 
>>> From: Warren Rekow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>> Subject: Fwd: Saving Gasoline and Money
>>> 
>>> I've heard stories about putting magnets on gas lines to improve fuel
>>> mileage for years Dick, perhaps magnets attached to the tubing might
>> 
>> increase the
>> 
>>> effectiveness of foggers?
>> 
>> 
>> *good post warren !! this magnet thing either works, or else  is just more
>> urban legend. both ways, it shouldn't be hard to check out, like checking
>> out novak's baby was easy.
>> 
>> *will come up with a test routine, and post when i have my numbers in,
> 
> just
> 
>> like the fogger.
>> 
>> *some questions  into the article :
>> 
>>> ...Later, I discovered these devices contained simple magnets with
>>> the south-seeking poles directed inward
>> 
>> 
>> *besides floating one of them, and then comparing, is there some other
>> method for determining a magnet's south that i am unaware of, or have
>> forgotten ?
>> 
>>> The magnets used are fairly strong rare-earth strontium ferroxide ceramic
>>> magnets which will pinch your fingers (Ouch!) if you are not careful, and
>>> four of them are enough for a single fuel-line for one car.  Any similar
>>> strong magnet will work
>> 
>> 
>> *such as speaker magnets ? how do i determine if a magnet is strong enough
>> for this application ?
>> 
>>> Like the orgone accumulator, it is too simple for most people to
>> 
>> believe...
>> 
>> *i know for a fact that something very similar to an 'orgone accumulator'
>> works just fine, and does generate fuel savings at a reasonable cost. this
>> lends credibility to this gent's thesis.
>> 
>>> You can get the magnets at any Radio Shack...
>> 
>> 
>> *it would sure help to have a rs cat # or something more specific to go
> 
> on.
> 
>> any chance of obtaining this ? rs is such a comfy one-stop place for all
> 
> of
> 
>> these odds and ends, i find...
>> 
>>> ...Natural Energy Works has been selling
>>> these simple strong magnets for years, available in sets of 10 for $10
>> 
>> plus
>> 
>>> $7 USA-Canada shipping, along with a little book on the subject for
>> 
>> $12.95.
>> 
>>> The same effect works also on your propane or natural gas stove or
>> 
>> furnace,
>> 
>>> when magnets are added to the feed lines just before the burners or
>>> combustion chambers.
>> 
>> 
>> *what shape and size are the magnets n.e.w. sells ? 12.95 for a booklet on
>> why and how it works sounds a bit steep to me. thoughts on this ?
>> 
>> *notice closeness to entry point is invariably stressed. is 'the closer
> 
> the
> 
>> better', or will 'close enough' do ?
>> 
>> *nice project for anybody willing to keep statistically significant tabs
> 
> on
> 
>> fuel use. i for one will fit it into one of my ongoing projects, asap.
>> 
>> *who knows, 7-11 % from the fogger, + 5-15 % from the magnets, plus a bit
> 
> of
> 
>> meth in the gasoline, and maybe an h generator, and we might be looking at
>> some significant savings here. i've got the fogger down pat, and am
> 
> halfway
> 
>> there with the h generator, so all i need to do now is mix some meth into
>> the gas, grab some magnets and run...
>> 
>> *life is only bearable when dreams egg you on, methinks...
>> 
>> A DAILY GAME
>> 
>> My death and I play daily games,
>> whence she reminds me of herself,
>> whilst I keep focused on my elusive quest,
>> paying but scant attention to her ways,
>> too busy with dreams I need to claim,
>> before time comes for our embrace.
>> 
>> *thanks for helping me enlarge the scope of my dreaming, warren.
>> 
>> *and pls excuse myn OT jingle...
>> 
>>> From: "Paul Gobert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>> Subject: Re: water + alky / dino-svo + alky / auto tranny + svo / biod +
>> 
>> svo
>> 
>>> Apace Technology in Australia developed an emulsifier that enabled the
>>> mix

[biofuel] Fw: Refridgeration

[Mike Ashton]

All,

Can anyone tell me of the cheapest way to chill a small commercial chiller. I 
need to keep food in it prior to sale, not sure of the size yet but probably 
the equivalent to 3 or 4 of the domestic "chest" freezers.

Regards

Mike


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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Re: [biofuel] What about making engine oil?

[Keith Addison]

>veggie oil is used by some racing cars and motorcycles
>i dont know the trade name tho.
>Ian

Developed by Agro Management Group of Colorado Springs, AMG 2000 is a 
special-formula all-vegetable premium crankcase lubricant designed 
for and tested in a wide range of air-cooled and water-cooled 4-cycle 
engines. The first-ever completely renewable and biodegradable engine 
oil that stands up to today's stringent industry standards. 
Independent tests show that emissions from engines run with AMG 2000 
are lower than engines run with petroleum oil. Cost-competitive with 
modern petroleum lubricants. Produced in partnership with a farmers' 
cooperative, AMG 2000 is currently being used by the Michigan state 
government. "AMG 2000 is the first ever vegetable based motor oil for 
four cycle engines":
http://www.agromgt.com/prod01.htm
"Bio-based Motor Oil Lauded for Environmental Payback":
http://www.agromgt.com/pr01.htm

Keith Addison
Journey to Forever
Handmade Projects
Tokyo
http://journeytoforever.org/


>- Original Message -
>From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: 
>Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 8:34 PM
>Subject: [biofuel] What about making engine oil?
>
>
> Greetings:
>Is it possible to make engine oil, (for the crankcase) in the same
> manner as making bio-diesel? I've read several e-mail postings about
special
> filters for regular, petroleum based oils, what about veggie oils?
>   It seems to me I read somewhere that years ago, (like, back in the
> early 1900's) race cars used vegetable oil to lubricate the engines of
their
> cars. Has anyone else heard of this? Has anyone else tried this with their
> own automobile, (perhaps even some kind of stationary engine, farm tractor
> engine, etc.).
>I would love to hear any input you all might have.
>Thanks - Fischmann


 


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Re: [biofuel] Tallow

[Keith Addison]

"bob golding" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote

>I think that the BSE prion does not survive the rendering process.

Yes it does. Prions are more resistant to steam sterilization than 
conventional transmissible agents. Extremely resistant to dry heat: a 
treatment of 360 deg C for one hour has been reported not to be 
completely effective. It's through exports of rendered products by a 
British company that BSE could have been spread across the world (70 
countries received protein potentially contaminated with BSE that may 
then have been fed to their cattle).

The BSE scare has kind of killed the market worldwide for rendered 
products. Tallow prices are probably generally lower, wherever you 
are.

Keith Addison
Journey to Forever
Handmade Projects
Tokyo
http://journeytoforever.org/

 
>- Original Message -
>From: "beeteljeuse beelzebub" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: 
>Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 12:52 AM
>Subject: RE: [biofuel] Tallow
>
>
> >
> > >
> > >-Original Message-
> > >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >Sent: Monday, 14 May 2001 8:16 PM
> > >To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
> > >Subject: [biofuel] Tallow
> > >
> > >
> > >,
> > > My name is Frank Wishart from Queensland Australia and i am
> > >interested in making BioDiesel from low grade tallow one of the
> > >drawbacks as i see it is the high FFA at +15% althoough if used on a
> > >daily basis this would be reduced. I have access to 800lt/day and am
> > >looking into the feasibility of setting up a plant to handle this
> > >quanity. Has anyone in the group had any experience in Beef tallow,
> > >As a result of BSE this low grade tallow is readily available and
> > >inexpensive..
> >
> > You say "As a result of BSE..." Are we talking about  using beef tallow
>from
> > europe? what is up with this? Are cattle products from affecected nations
> > even allowed past customs? Good god, I hope not.
> >
> > Allen


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B100 schools switch - was [biofuel] Re: magnetic savings

[Keith Addison]

>Working on getting the Berkeley Unified School District here in
>California to switch to B100, will update with progress,
>
>-Andrew

Best of good luck, and strength to your arm. Please update as poss.

Keith Addison
Journey to Forever
Handmade Projects
Tokyo
http://journeytoforever.org/

 


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Re: [biofuel] Why you should fit a MIL

[Geoff]

Barryt,yes.It is a simple job to drain diesel and any residual water [bleed 
tap] from the container,remove the dirty toilet roll [makes a good 
firelighter]and replace it with a new toilet roll,smear a bit of vaseline 
on the lid's o-ring and tighten it back down.Prime to bleed the air out, 
,job's done .
>Geoff, thanks for the tip.  Did you say you just used toilet paper for the 
>filter element?
>regards
>Barryt
>   - Original Message -
>   From: Geoff
>   To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2001 9:55 PM
>   Subject: Re: [biofuel] Why you should fit a MIL
>
>
>   Barryt,I have used a Mil-Mac filter on my Landcruiser 2H diesel for about
>   10 years,not for oil,but fuel filtration.Replacement toilet rolls have 
> been
>   Bunzil 2 ply,though a friend has successfully used Lady Scott toilet rolls
>   after peeling off a few layers to achieve a tight fit in the container.The
>   idea was to clean up the cheap diesel BP were importing from
>   Singapore,after a couple of weeks the toilet rolls were black indicating
>   their effectiveness.
>   You can contact the manufacturers at Mil-Mac[WA]PtyLtd,47 Cohn
>   St,Carlisle,Western Australia. 6101.Phone0894721888 Fax94703207.I am sure
>   they will be glad to supply you with further information
>   >David,
>   > I loved  your information about the Mil-Mac bypass
>   > filter.  What you say about engine wear really makes sense. You said 
> in a
>   > previous email that it was an Australian product.  I'm Australian and I
>   > can't locate it.  None of the people that I have spoken to are aware of
>   > the Mil-Mac brand.   I have looked on the web and couldn't find a 
> Mil-Mac
>   > site.  Not in the phone book.  Perhaps they are known here by another
>   > name.  Can you please give me more information.
>   >
>   >Barryt
>   >[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>   >
>   >   - Original Message -
>   >   From: David Reid
>   >   To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
>   >   Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2001 12:54 PM
>   >   Subject: [biofuel] Why you should fit a MIL
>   >
>   >
>   >   Why you should fit a MIL-MAC in addition to your standard Full Flow 
> Oil
>   > Filter
>   >
>   >   Full Flow 
> FilterMIL-MAC
>   > By-pass Oil Filter
>   >
>   >   (Uses SURFACE filtration(Uses
>   > DEPTH filtration
>   >  Uses perforated membranes which can Universally
>   > recognized as the most
>   >  be damaged or clogged up with efficient
>   > method.
>   >  large
>   > particles.Uses
>   > full depth filtration which only
>   >
>   >allows thoroughly cleaned oil to
>   >
>   >come out the other side.
>   >  Membrane only 1/32" (=0.8mm) or less Filter 
> material
>   > 4" (100mm +) or
>   >  in
>   > 
> thickness.   more
>   > in thickness.
>   >
>   >130 x more surface filtration.__
>   >   (Uses no additional
>   > filtering.(Works in addition to the
>   > standard
>   >
>   >factory full flow filter.
>   >   (Designed to pass all the volume of oil in(Designed to
>   > thoroughly filter only 10%
>   >  1 minute or
>   > under.  volume in the
>   > same time.
>   >   (Only traps large
>   > particles.   (Traps all particles.
>   >  (At very best removes particles only(At very
>   > best removes all particles as
>   >  as low as 10 micron. (nominal rating) low as 
> 0.1
>   > micron and all above.
>   >
>   >(100 times better than any full flow).
>   > (At best removes particles 15 micron(At best
>   > removes the majority of
>   > and above. (nominal
>   > rating)particles between 0.1 and 
> 1 micron
>   >
>   >and all above 1 micron.
>   >
>   >(150 times at best, to 15 times better ).
>   > (Realistically removes particles
>   > 25(Realistically removes all particles
>   > micron and above and has difficulty  above 1
>   > micron. (absolute)
>   > removing those under.  (Still nominal(still 25
>   > times better at worst and
>   > rating although a few are absolute).  10 times
>   > better at very worst)._
>   >   (Can become clogged up and fail to   (Can also
>   > become clogged up at surface
>   >   operate properly if oil is exceptionally  if 
> oil is
>   > exceptionally dirty but continues to
>   > dirty.
>   > operate as surface contamination is
>   >
>   >pushed a small way into the filter and will
>   >
>   >normally last its full allott

RE: [biofuel] Re: What about making engine oil?

[kirk]

They ran some diesel locomotives with canola but with normal lube in
crankcase. Veggie blowby reacted with trace amounts of copper in the
lubricating oil and polymerised to increase viscosity.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 10:38 PM
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [biofuel] Re: What about making engine oil?


--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Appal Energy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I wonder how long a diesel rabbit engine would last, with veggie
>>oil in the crankcase. I just might try. they are pretty cheap at
>>our junkyard. I'll add one of your filters, Dave.



'bout a month, give or take a coupla days...

I'm not sure about the diesel part, but just ask Jeremiah Senner
about canola oil in the crankcase of a gaster. He is in some of the
mileage groups I frequent. He did it and it worked great for a while
in his Geo Metro gas sipper. He was getting better mileage and higher
compression that his Metro was lacking.  After about a month with the
straight stuff, he chucked rod bearings and is now in the process of
rebuilding.
He drained his oil pan and is having the oil professionally
analysed. If you hold off for a while, I can give you an update on
what he found when he gets some results back if you would like.

As with his preliminary results, there may be something to it if you
have the right combination of additives and increase the viscosity
index.
Sam



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[biofuel] Re: What about making engine oil?

[dabbs]

--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Appal Energy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I wonder how long a diesel rabbit engine would last, with veggie 
>>oil in the crankcase. I just might try. they are pretty cheap at 
>>our junkyard. I'll add one of your filters, Dave.


 
'bout a month, give or take a coupla days...

I'm not sure about the diesel part, but just ask Jeremiah Senner 
about canola oil in the crankcase of a gaster. He is in some of the 
mileage groups I frequent. He did it and it worked great for a while 
in his Geo Metro gas sipper. He was getting better mileage and higher 
compression that his Metro was lacking.  After about a month with the 
straight stuff, he chucked rod bearings and is now in the process of 
rebuilding. 
He drained his oil pan and is having the oil professionally 
analysed. If you hold off for a while, I can give you an update on 
what he found when he gets some results back if you would like.

As with his preliminary results, there may be something to it if you 
have the right combination of additives and increase the viscosity 
index. 
Sam



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[biofuel] Re: What about making engine oil?

[dabbs]

'bout a month, give or take a coupla days...

I'm not sure about the diesel part, but just ask Jeremiah Senner 
about canola oil in the crankcase of a gaster. He is in some of the 
mileage groups I frequent. He did it and it worked great for a while 
in his Geo Metro gas sipper. He was getting better mileage and higher 
compression that his Metro was lacking.  After about a month with the 
straight stuff, he chucked rod bearings and is now in the process of 
rebuilding. 
He drained his oil pan and is having the oil it professionally 
analysed. If you hold off for a while, I can give you an update on 
what he found when he gets some results back.
Sam



--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Appal Energy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I wonder how long a diesel rabbit engine would last, with veggie 
oil in
> the
> > crankcase. I just might try. they are pretty cheap at our 
junkyard. I'll
> add
> > one of your filters, Dave.
> ..
> 
> Steve,
> 
> Make sure the oil has at minimum had the lecithin extracted. That 
will at
> least double the life of the oil as a lubricant.
> 
> Bad rings on the pistons will also ensure that the biodiesel 
enhances the
> crankcase oil.
> 
> I'd refrain, but I'm just a mad Irishman on the lunatic fringe. 
You, on the
> other hand, might be a bit more "touched."  (Liberty taken - 
sorry!) :-)
> 
> Todd
> Appal Energy
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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[biofuel] What about making engine oil?

[David Reid]

   To give people an idea of what is required to make a reasonable engine 
oil please find attached the below ready reference
  B,r,. David
  Ready Reference for Lubricants and Fuels
  Lubricant Additives

  Very little unadditized mineral oil is sold as a lubricant. Almost all 
commercial lubricants contain additives to enhance their performance in amounts 
ranging from less than 1% to 25% or more. By far the largest market for such 
additives is in the transportation field, including additives for engines and 
drivetrains in cars, trucks, buses, locomotives and ships. The function of 
additives can be summarized as:

a.. Protect metal surfaces (rings, bearings, gears, etc.) 
b.. Extend the range of lubricant applicability 
c.. Extend lubricant life 
  The same general range of additive types find application in other 
fields; for example, industrial lubricants, along with materials designed to 
impart specific properties such as:

a.. Emulsifiers 
b.. Demulsifiers 
c.. Tackiness agents 
d.. Bactericides 
e.. Gelling agents (for greases) 
  To be acceptable to blenders and end users alike, additives must be 
capable of being handled in conventional blending equipment, stable in storage, 
free of offensive odor, and nontoxic by normal industrial standards. Because 
many are highly viscous materials or actual solids, they are generally sold as 
concentrated solutions in diluent oil (HVI 100 Neutral or similar).

  Surface Protective Additives - Automotive Lubricants 
Additive Type  Purpose  Typical Compounds  Functions  
Antiwear and EP Agent  Reduce friction and wear and prevent scoring 
and seizure  Zinc dithiophosphates, organic phosphates, acid phosphates, 
organic sulfur and chlorine compounds, sulfurized fats, sulfides and disulfides 
 Chemical reaction with metal surface to form a film with lower shear strength 
than the metal, thereby preventing metal-to-metal contact  
Corrosion and Rust Inhibitor  Prevent corrosion and rusting of 
metal parts in contact with the lubricant  Zinc dithiophosphates, metal 
phenolates, basic metal sulfonates, fatty acids and amines  Preferential 
adsorption of polar constituent on metal surface to provide protective film, or 
neutralize corrosive acids  
Detergent  Keep surfaces free of deposits  Metallo-organic 
compounds of sodium, calcium and magnesium phenolates, phosphonates and 
sulfonates  Chemical reaction with sludge and varnish precursors to neutralize 
them and keep them soluble  
Dispersant  Keep insoluble contaminants dispersed in the lubricant  
Alkylsuccinimides, alkylsuccinic esters, and mannich reaction products  
Contaminants are bonded by polar attraction to dispersant molecules, prevented 
from agglomerating and kept in suspension due to solubility of dispersant  
Friction Modifier  Alter coefficient of friction  Organic fatty 
acids and amides, lard oil, high molecular weight organic phosphorus and 
phosphoric acid esters  Preferential adsorption of surface-active materials  

  Performance Additives - Automotive Lubricants 
Additive Type  Purpose  Typical Compounds  Functions  
Pour Point Depressant  Enable lubricant to flow at low temperatures 
 Alkylated naphthalene and phenolic polymers, polymethacrylates, 
maleate/fumerate copolymer esters Modify wax crystal formation to reduce 
interlocking  
Seal Swell Agent  Swell elastomeric seals  Organic phosphates and 
aromatic hydrocarbons  Chemical reaction with elastomer to cause slight swell  
Viscosity Modifier  Reduce the rate of viscosity change with 
temperature  Polymers and copolymers of olefins, methacrylates, dienes or 
alkylated styrenes  Polymers expand with increasing temperature to counteract 
oil thinning  

  Protective Additives - Automotive Lubricants 
Additive Type  Purpose  Typical Compounds  Functions  
Antifoamant  Prevent lubricant from forming a persistent foam  
Silicone polymers, organic copolymers  Reduces surface tension to speed 
collapse of foam  
Antioxidant  Retard oxidative decomposition  Zinc dithiophosphates, 
hindered phenols, aromatic amines, sulfurized phenols  Decompose peroxides and 
terminate free-radical reactions  
Metal Deactivator  Reduce catalytic effect of metals on oxidation 
rate  Organic complexes containing nitrogen or sulfur, amines, sulfides and 
phosphites  Form inactive film on metal surfaces by complexing with metallic 
ions  
 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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Sound Rebuff was Re: [biofuel] Re: magnetic savings=magic?

[Appal Energy]

> David, Steve, Jerry and all,
>
>   I need not, nor have any desire to convince anyone on earth other
> than myself as to the validity of said circumstances or scientific
> properties thereof. I simply do not have the time to dwell on it for
> any persons sake other than my own. Others here may have that job,
> not me.
.
Sam,

I'll take you as my summation attorney almost any day. Cohesive, sound logic
in your reproof, no matter whether it be magnets, elephants that fly, cosmic
or microscopic particles unseen.

Too bad my fuel lines are made of neolenin. (A secret Cuban polymer derived
from cigar tobacco gums scraped off industry curing racks.)

Salute! (Comrade)

[Just in case one of those radical right wing, strike fear and terror in
their hearts, anti- common sensers is listening.]

Todd
Appal Energy
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: [biofuel] What about making engine oil?

[David Reid]

Gerry,
 You would probably do far better to contact one of the oil additive
manufacturers, tell them what you wanted to do, supply them with a samples/s
of your base vegetable oil, and ask them for the information and the
appropriate additive package to make a specific engine oil. Throwing in an
"oil treatment" such as STP, Wynns, or whatever, would certainly give you a
superior oil to one without  any additives but it certainly wouldnt be that
much superior. As Ed has just said hiring a tribology specialist would be a
vast improvement. The problem then is knowing when to stop. Over the years
there are not that many of these additive manufacturers like Super Slick 50,
Motor Up, etc who have not been pulled over the coals for false advertising
because under properly conducted tests by various governing bodies their
claims do not stack up. You are generally better to go to one of the
specialist oil additive manufacturers and get them to formulate the
necessary additive package which is specifically designed for the base oil
and to do a particular job than just throw in a can of oil treatment where
sometimes some of the additive ingredients may not be too compatible with
the base stock you are adding it too.
At last count there were something like 49 major specialist companies in
this field.
B.r.,  David

- Original Message -
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 12:44 PM
Subject: Re: [biofuel] What about making engine oil?


>
> Mix in  a can of  "oil treatment" on every filter roll change with the
> Mil-Mac.
> The additives will take cares of wear on the engine.
> Gerry



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Re: [biofuel] What about making engine oil?

[David Reid]

Yes Ed agreed, doing it this way you will certainly get a far better oil
than if you read a few books yourself and then tried to make it, but on top
of this you will then need to pay for analysis, set up a lab, buy expensive
equipment, etc. etc. to the extent that it becomes a prohibitive exercise. I
am not saying that you should not do this but one needs to understand what
is required  before one sets out and be reasonably commited to that path for
the long haul otherwise one is likely to waste a fair amount of time and a
reasonable amount of money.
B.r.,  David

- Original Message -
From: NBT - E. Beggs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 1:33 PM
Subject: Re: [biofuel] What about making engine oil?


> High oleic base stock is a start...then hire the tribology specialist.



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[biofuel] coco diesel mixture

[John Li]

Greetings!

Can anybody give me the correct mixture to produce coco diesel from coconut
crude oil (unrefined) or can you just mix kerosene with crude coconut oil at
1:20 ratio, like in Thailand for diesel trucks, generators and tractors for
tropical use?  Do we need to add methanol to increase the octane level?  If
so, what is the
proportion level?

What is the acceptable level of the FFA, or is it not important whether the
level is high or low?

Thanks a lot.
John Li/Philippines



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[biofuel] Re: magnetic savings=magic?

[dabbs]

David, Steve, Jerry and all,

  I need not, nor have any desire to convince anyone on earth other 
than myself as to the validity of said circumstances or scientific 
properties thereof. I simply do not have the time to dwell on it for 
any persons sake other than my own. Others here may have that job, 
not me. I am selfish in that I think you should try it for yourself 
as I have and not take things you see written on any message group as 
the gospel truth.
I can only speak for myself and for what I have seen, what I have 
done and what works for me. Dozens of tankfulls have convinced me 
that something is going on there and I do not need another persons 
opinion as to the fact that it is, or is not. Driving conditions have 
been averaged many times before I gave the 4-5 mpg figure. I do not 
care if you disagree with this statement. Others come up with as much 
as 30% with increased power as well. You can explore this yourself. I 
have paved the way to my successes with mileage and feel that you 
should do the same if you are so inclined. 
  I see you all have explored this matter in great depth and you 
remain extremely skeptical. If what you have learned about it is good 
enough for you, then I can accept that. I can accept that it is YOUR 
opinion.
I, for that matter, am very skeptical of almost everyone in all of 
these message groups that can consider themselves experts of 
everything known to man. THAT seems highly unlikely to me. 
Please, I mean no ill will towards anyone mentioned, nor anyone else 
here. Again it is just my observance of things I see when I step back 
and look at the big picture. 

  The breaking down of petroleum based products by **many** means is 
well documented. Your catalytic converter does that every time you 
turn the ignition switch. Unfortunately, it is in the wrong place to 
do us any good at all. Do you believe that known catalysts are the 
only triggers that can do this?   I'm serious... 
There are many, many fuel catalysts. It would take you quite a long 
time to list them all and I'm almost positive you would leave some 
out of the picture if you did. Most of the precious metals are on the 
list as well as some common metals
One of the best catalysts at the present you can work with is not a 
metal at all. It is Zeolites, a mineral. It is used in some high-end 
cat litter to minimize smell as well as refinery applications. See 
what the professionals are using to break down olefins and go with 
that in your on-board mobile refinery if you want to seek high 
mileage gains. My advice... Take it or leave it... 
shove it down the drain... Whatever...
  I do not think that magnets and what they can do is magic, though 
they are used by many folks to create illusions. Magnets are real, 
with real properties that we have only begun to explore. Without 
them, you could not possibly read this type, drive in a car or 
generate electricity to name a few incidentals. Any household out 
there has thousands of magnets in countless numbers of gadgets doing 
wonderfull things.
That is what I believe.

You can look at this site:  http://www.fut.es/~sje/mag_fuel.htm

as they have some info on the subject of magnets in regards to fuel, 
but do not take anyones word for it. This is the internet after all.
D.I.Y
Peace,
Sam



--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "David  Reid" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Sam,
> I sometimes think this is why some of these things work. 
Because
> people want them to work they work. The easiest way to obtain high 
mpg is to
> keep your foot off the gas pedal. This works everytime in my 
experience. For
> trials to be comparable all the variables have to remain constant 
and when
> you come to motor vehicles they invariably are not. Forgive me if I 
am
> cynical but unless you can totally convince me that long 
hydrocarbon chains
> are being broken down to shorter chains and better vaporisation is 
occurring
> as a result of the magnetic field I remain totally sceptical. I 
admit I have
> done very little research on this aspect. Years ago I spent 5 months
> travelling the length and breadth of India seeing quite a lot of 
things I
> could not understand. As I have grown older I have learnt or 
understand how
> most of them were done. There are a number of things I still cant 
explain
> but because I cant explain them dosnt make them magic. Ninety nine 
% of the
> time there is a logical explantion. Forgive me if I am still 
critical.
> B.r.,  David
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 11:16 AM
> Subject: [biofuel] Re: magnetic savings / alky + dyno / hard water /
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I use fuel line magnets myself, the rare earth variety out of the PC
> hard drives, and I get a steady mileage increase of 4-5 mpg. I 
firmly
> believe in them myself. Not everyone who has tried them gets good
> results right off the bat. The trick is to move them around until 
you
> find a sweet spot an

Re: [biofuel] What about making engine oil?

[leegerry]

Hi ,
There was a lot of hype on those telfon additives or some that can start a
engine block when it is encased in ice.!
But those tend to settle down in the sump, more suitable for racing engine
where it is stripped and rebuilt after the races.

Luckily some blokes understand there need to be suspension of this
additives in any type of lubricant and they did came out with workable
additives. Don't ask me for those. I have stopped trying out the new stuff.

Gerry





Warren Rekow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on 05/22/2001 09:43:30 AM

Please respond to biofuel@yahoogroups.com

To:   biofuel@yahoogroups.com
cc:(bcc: LEE Gerry/Prin Engr/CSM/ST Group)
Subject:  Re: [biofuel] What about making engine oil?




David said:
>I believe people would benefit a lot more by learning a lot more about oil
>instead. While there are a lot of sites justifying additives which mostly
>dont work there are some good sites on the web that people can learn from.

I've tried some oil additives (teflon, etc.) and did not see results
good enough to justify the extra cost. However, a few years back I
tried an additive called Energy Release. ER actually works well and
more than pays for itself. I now use it in all my vehicles.
Their web site is: http://www.energyrelease.com/index.asp
--
...Warren Rekow

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Re: [biofuel] Biodiesel in a heating oil burner?

[leegerry]

Asians tend to use lamps and burners with wicks.
Whether it is kerosene, coconut oil or vegetable oil.
Only problem is soot from long term usage.
If multiple wicks burner are available and with proper chimney, you can
have a heater fire going.
I can still remember absorption refrigerator fired by kerosene with wick
type burner.
Just my thoughts.
Gerry





"NBT - E. Beggs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on 05/22/2001 09:41:52 AM

Please respond to biofuel@yahoogroups.com

To:   
cc:(bcc: LEE Gerry/Prin Engr/CSM/ST Group)
Subject:  Re: [biofuel] Biodiesel in a heating oil burner?




Biodiesel works for us in both kerosene heater and oil lamp. But that is
not
the same as dumping veg. oil into kerosene.

Ed B.


- Original Message -
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2001 9:43 PM
Subject: Re: [biofuel] Biodiesel in a heating oil burner?


> Good Evening:
>In regard to cooking oil/Kerosene mix for heating. I tried that
this
> winter. Everything went great for about an hour and a half. Then the
heater
> began to smoke and stink. To make a long story short - I ended up having
to
> take the heater apart and clean out all this gooey junk, wash everything
out
> with clean, pure Kerosene, and freeze for part of a day and night.
>Apparently you have had success -- where did I go wrong?
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
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>
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>
>


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Re: [biofuel] What about making engine oil?

[Warren Rekow]

David said:
>I believe people would benefit a lot more by learning a lot more about oil
>instead. While there are a lot of sites justifying additives which mostly
>dont work there are some good sites on the web that people can learn from.

I've tried some oil additives (teflon, etc.) and did not see results 
good enough to justify the extra cost. However, a few years back I 
tried an additive called Energy Release. ER actually works well and 
more than pays for itself. I now use it in all my vehicles.
Their web site is: http://www.energyrelease.com/index.asp
-- 
...Warren Rekow

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Re: [biofuel] Biodiesel in a heating oil burner?

[NBT - E. Beggs]

Biodiesel works for us in both kerosene heater and oil lamp. But that is not
the same as dumping veg. oil into kerosene.

Ed B.


- Original Message -
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2001 9:43 PM
Subject: Re: [biofuel] Biodiesel in a heating oil burner?


> Good Evening:
>In regard to cooking oil/Kerosene mix for heating. I tried that
this
> winter. Everything went great for about an hour and a half. Then the
heater
> began to smoke and stink. To make a long story short - I ended up having
to
> take the heater apart and clean out all this gooey junk, wash everything
out
> with clean, pure Kerosene, and freeze for part of a day and night.
>Apparently you have had success -- where did I go wrong?
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address.
> To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


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Re: [biofuel] What about making engine oil?

[NBT - E. Beggs]

Renewable Lubricants Inc. makes some.


- Original Message -
From: "ian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 1:36 PM
Subject: Re: [biofuel] What about making engine oil?


> veggie oil is used by some racing cars and motorcycles
> i dont know the trade name tho.
> Ian
> - Original Message -
> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 8:34 PM
> Subject: [biofuel] What about making engine oil?
>
>
> >I would love to hear any input you all might have.
> >Thanks - Fischmann
> >
>
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
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Re: [biofuel] What about making engine oil?

[NBT - E. Beggs]

High oleic base stock is a start...then hire the tribology specialist.

Ed B.
- Original Message -
From: "David Reid" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 1:48 PM
Subject: Re: [biofuel] What about making engine oil?


> Fischmann,
>  Yes you could make your own oils, particularly vegetable
> based oils BUT and I emphasize BUT you need a lot of knowledge and
> expertise. (In short you really need to be a chemist and specialise in
> oils). A lot of the modern synthetics are vegetable based oils with fully
> synthetics having a large % of vegetable oil base.  Oils as such are made
> fom 2 main things,  namely the oil base stock and the additive package. It
> is the quality of both these things that determine the quality of the
> finished products. Quality manufacture is beyond the range and ability of
> the amateur. That is not to say it cant be done in the longrun but without
a
> lot of dedication, attention to detail, and massive investment you are
never
> likely to get there. I somehow think at that point you have well and truly
> left the rank of amateur behind.
> B.r., David
>
> - Original Message -
> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 7:34 AM
> Subject: [biofuel] What about making engine oil?
>
>
> > Greetings:
> >Is it possible to make engine oil, (for the crankcase) in the
same
> > manner as making bio-diesel? I've read several e-mail postings about
> special
> > filters for regular, petroleum based oils, what about veggie oils?
> >   It seems to me I read somewhere that years ago, (like, back in the
> > early 1900's) race cars used vegetable oil to lubricate the engines of
> their
> > cars. Has anyone else heard of this? Has anyone else tried this with
their
> > own automobile, (perhaps even some kind of stationary engine, farm
tractor
> > engine, etc.).
> >I would love to hear any input you all might have.
> >Thanks - Fischmann
>
>
>
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
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>
>


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Re: [biofuel] What about making engine oil?

[NBT - E. Beggs]

Did you see the one in Germany  the group is doing there -  with the oil
going through the crankcase to warm it and then into the engine as fuel?
It's still running - so far. (A Ford I think).

Ed B.
- Original Message -
From: "steve spence" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 1:56 PM
Subject: Re: [biofuel] What about making engine oil?


> I wonder how long a diesel rabbit engine would last, with veggie oil in
the
> crankcase. I just might try. they are pretty cheap at our junkyard. I'll
add
> one of your filters, Dave.
>
>
>
> Steve Spence
> Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter:
> http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm
>
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> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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> We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors,
> we borrow it from our children.
> --
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "David Reid" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 4:48 PM
> Subject: Re: [biofuel] What about making engine oil?
>
>
> > Fischmann,
> >  Yes you could make your own oils, particularly
vegetable
> > based oils BUT and I emphasize BUT you need a lot of knowledge and
> > expertise. (In short you really need to be a chemist and specialise in
> > oils). A lot of the modern synthetics are vegetable based oils with
fully
> > synthetics having a large % of vegetable oil base.  Oils as such are
made
> > fom 2 main things,  namely the oil base stock and the additive package.
It
> > is the quality of both these things that determine the quality of the
> > finished products. Quality manufacture is beyond the range and ability
of
> > the amateur. That is not to say it cant be done in the longrun but
without
> a
> > lot of dedication, attention to detail, and massive investment you are
> never
> > likely to get there. I somehow think at that point you have well and
truly
> > left the rank of amateur behind.
> > B.r., David
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: 
> > Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 7:34 AM
> > Subject: [biofuel] What about making engine oil?
> >
> >
> > > Greetings:
> > >Is it possible to make engine oil, (for the crankcase) in the
> same
> > > manner as making bio-diesel? I've read several e-mail postings about
> > special
> > > filters for regular, petroleum based oils, what about veggie oils?
> > >   It seems to me I read somewhere that years ago, (like, back in
the
> > > early 1900's) race cars used vegetable oil to lubricate the engines of
> > their
> > > cars. Has anyone else heard of this? Has anyone else tried this with
> their
> > > own automobile, (perhaps even some kind of stationary engine, farm
> tractor
> > > engine, etc.).
> > >I would love to hear any input you all might have.
> > >Thanks - Fischmann
> >
> >
> >
> >   Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > Say you love them
> > with a DOMAIN NAME!
> > www.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address.
> > To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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> >
> >
>
>
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Re: [biofuel] Tallow

[bob golding]

I think that the BSE prion does not survive the rendering process.
- Original Message -
From: "beeteljeuse beelzebub" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 12:52 AM
Subject: RE: [biofuel] Tallow


>
> >
> >-Original Message-
> >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >Sent: Monday, 14 May 2001 8:16 PM
> >To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: [biofuel] Tallow
> >
> >
> >,
> > My name is Frank Wishart from Queensland Australia and i am
> >interested in making BioDiesel from low grade tallow one of the
> >drawbacks as i see it is the high FFA at +15% althoough if used on a
> >daily basis this would be reduced. I have access to 800lt/day and am
> >looking into the feasibility of setting up a plant to handle this
> >quanity. Has anyone in the group had any experience in Beef tallow,
> >As a result of BSE this low grade tallow is readily available and
> >inexpensive..
>
> You say "As a result of BSE..." Are we talking about  using beef tallow
from
> europe? what is up with this? Are cattle products from affecected nations
> even allowed past customs? Good god, I hope not.
>
> Allen
>
> _
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
>
>
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>
>
>
>


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Re: [biofuel] Coconut oil

[leegerry]

Most of the coconut oil comes from mature coconuts.
Coming from the equatorial belt, we have alot of 'fun ' with this nuts. We
squeeze freshly grated mature coconut kernel to make coconut milk which is
used in making thick curry gravy. You can't make the milk out of young
green coconut because they are just not 'ripe' enough.
Mature coconuts does contains the endosperm, it is not abosbed into the
kernel.
They are sun dried simply because the sun is free.

Young coconuts are popular for refreshing cocktails (the water part) and
thin sweet fresh.

You get more bulk with the flesh from mature  nuts than the green nuts.
True that the green nut's flesh can be expelled easily. But the villagers
has all the time in the world and they are quite adapt at expelling flesh
from the old nuts with the simple implement that they fashioned from steel.

Gerry






"F. Marc de Piolenc" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on 05/22/2001 08:43:37 AM

Please respond to biofuel@yahoogroups.com

To:   Biofuel List 
cc:(bcc: LEE Gerry/Prin Engr/CSM/ST Group)
Subject:  [biofuel] Coconut oil





Gerry wrote:

"Mature coconuts would be required as they have thicker kernel with have
more oil after they have been sun dried."

The plants I'm looking at are not based on copra (sundried coconut
meat), but on fresh nuts.

Are you quite sure that mature nuts have more oil? The meat is harder in
those I've seen, and it may be a little thicker, but the only difference
in the rest of the nut is that the water (liquid endosperm) has been
absorbed into the meat. The water contains no oil, so I wonder whether
the meat of a mature coconut contains more. Anyway, I can't find
anything definite either way in the little literature that I have.

The soft meat of a green nut is easier to scour out of the shell and run
through the expellers.

Marc de Piolenc

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RE: [biofuel] Tallow

[beeteljeuse beelzebub]

>
>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Monday, 14 May 2001 8:16 PM
>To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [biofuel] Tallow
>
>
>,
> My name is Frank Wishart from Queensland Australia and i am
>interested in making BioDiesel from low grade tallow one of the
>drawbacks as i see it is the high FFA at +15% althoough if used on a
>daily basis this would be reduced. I have access to 800lt/day and am
>looking into the feasibility of setting up a plant to handle this
>quanity. Has anyone in the group had any experience in Beef tallow,
>As a result of BSE this low grade tallow is readily available and
>inexpensive..

You say "As a result of BSE..." Are we talking about  using beef tallow from 
europe? what is up with this? Are cattle products from affecected nations 
even allowed past customs? Good god, I hope not.

Allen

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Re: [biofuel] What about making engine oil?

[leegerry]

Mix in  a can of  "oil treatment" on every filter roll change with the
Mil-Mac.
The additives will take cares of wear on the engine.
Gerry






"David Reid" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on 05/22/2001 05:57:21 AM

Please respond to biofuel@yahoogroups.com

To:   
cc:(bcc: LEE Gerry/Prin Engr/CSM/ST Group)
Subject:  Re: [biofuel] What about making engine oil?




Not a very scientific experiment if you ask me Steve although it might give
you some idea on how long oil made by a rank amateur would last. As I have
stated before several times oil is made from 2 things, namely the oil base
stock and the additive package. Both of these are important and it is the
quality of both these that determine the quality of the final oil produced,
how long it lasts, and how effective it is. Without a decent additive
package the oil will not last and the results produced are more a comment
on
the standard of engineering rather than the quality of the oil. While the
by-pass oil filter would undoubtedly extend the life of the engine the
results produced would be somewhat spurious and debateable as we dont know
the condition of the engine initially.
I believe people would benefit a lot more by learning a lot more about oil
instead. While there are a lot of sites justifying additives which mostly
dont work there are some good sites on the web that people can learn from.
B.r.,  David

- Original Message -
From: steve spence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 8:56 AM
Subject: Re: [biofuel] What about making engine oil?


> I wonder how long a diesel rabbit engine would last, with veggie oil in
the
> crankcase. I just might try. they are pretty cheap at our junkyard. I'll
add
> one of your filters, Dave.



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[biofuel] Re: unsubscribe

[beeteljeuse beelzebub]

unsubscribe
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Re: [biofuel] Model Engines

[David Teal]

Martin Brook wrote:
"A company called Irvine do them in theUK. Irvine Engines Ltd, Unit 2,
Brunswick Ind. Pk, New Southgate, London, N11 1JL.  I've lost their number
but directory enquiries have it."

As a long-time model flying enthusiast, I have, of course been experimenting
with biofuels in model engines with the following results:

Glow plug fuel (conventional) is 0% to 15% nitromethane, 20% castor oil
(and/or synth), the rest methanol.  Ignition is by exothermic catalytic
heating of methanol on hot platinum alloy coil (glow plug), in addition to
compression heating.  To take advantage of biod's great lubricity plus
ability to burn, I tried a straight mix of biod + methanol.  Of course they
do not mix, so this approach is NBG.  (This must also be the reason most of
the XS meth ends up in glycerol rather than in the biod.)

Model diesel fuel (conventional) is 30% ether, 20% oil, 50% paraffin.  I
tried a few alternative mixes and found 75% biod, 25% ether worked OK.  Note
the complete omission of separate lubricant.  No sign of overheating or
siezing even with prolonged running on several different engines (I have
quite a collection, including some of the excellent Irvine diesels which are
no longer made, just glow motors now).  Power was noticably down on
conventional fuel and I had the (subjective) impression that it wasn't
burning fast enough.  Exhaust residue much less than normal, and rather
sticky.  My flying companions thought I was having a barbeque from the
smell.

If Jeremy still wants to demo his fuel with this type of model engine, I
suggest he enlists the help of an experienced model flyer, as there is a
certain "knack" to starting and adjusting them.

> model airplane engines are retrofittable to run on diesel fuel. the kits
are
> available at certain model store. they may not be that cheap though.
> anton
> --
> >From: Jeremy Shuey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: [biofuel] Model Engines
> >Date: May 11, 2001, 9:05 PM
> >
>
> >Does anyone know where a person could buy or build a
> >working model of a diesel engine?  I want to use the
> >engine to burn the biodiesel that I make in
> >demonstrations and also be able to do some testing
> >with it.  Any information would be appreciated.  Also,
> >the less expensive, the better.  ;-)  Thanks in
> >advance.
> >
> >Jeremy
> >



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[biofuel] Coconut oil

[F. Marc de Piolenc]

Gerry wrote:

"Mature coconuts would be required as they have thicker kernel with have
more oil after they have been sun dried."

The plants I'm looking at are not based on copra (sundried coconut
meat), but on fresh nuts. 

Are you quite sure that mature nuts have more oil? The meat is harder in
those I've seen, and it may be a little thicker, but the only difference
in the rest of the nut is that the water (liquid endosperm) has been
absorbed into the meat. The water contains no oil, so I wonder whether
the meat of a mature coconut contains more. Anyway, I can't find
anything definite either way in the little literature that I have.

The soft meat of a green nut is easier to scour out of the shell and run
through the expellers.

Marc de Piolenc

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Re: [biofuel] Re: magnetic savings / alky + dyno / hard water /

[David Reid]

Sam,
I sometimes think this is why some of these things work. Because
people want them to work they work. The easiest way to obtain high mpg is to
keep your foot off the gas pedal. This works everytime in my experience. For
trials to be comparable all the variables have to remain constant and when
you come to motor vehicles they invariably are not. Forgive me if I am
cynical but unless you can totally convince me that long hydrocarbon chains
are being broken down to shorter chains and better vaporisation is occurring
as a result of the magnetic field I remain totally sceptical. I admit I have
done very little research on this aspect. Years ago I spent 5 months
travelling the length and breadth of India seeing quite a lot of things I
could not understand. As I have grown older I have learnt or understand how
most of them were done. There are a number of things I still cant explain
but because I cant explain them dosnt make them magic. Ninety nine % of the
time there is a logical explantion. Forgive me if I am still critical.
B.r.,  David

- Original Message -
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 11:16 AM
Subject: [biofuel] Re: magnetic savings / alky + dyno / hard water /




I use fuel line magnets myself, the rare earth variety out of the PC
hard drives, and I get a steady mileage increase of 4-5 mpg. I firmly
believe in them myself. Not everyone who has tried them gets good
results right off the bat. The trick is to move them around until you
find a sweet spot and keep them there. Do not just slap them on, find
you get no gain and say that they will not work. Sometimes it takes a
few tries at postitioning to get it right. Work with it some before
you give up on them.
Also, they are only effective on rubber lines as far as the research
that I'm privy to goes. No effect on steel lines whatsoever. Someone
I know is experimenting on an electromagnetic field on gas lines
further enhancing the desired effect. Tin and tin alloys are also
great to experiment with as a catalyser for breaking down the long
chain hydrocarbons which is what you are trying to do with the
magnetic fields.
If you want ultra high mileage gains, then there is no substitute for
TCC or Thermal Catalytic Cracking of the fuel (as long as your
dealing with hydrocarbons that is). This is basically the same
procedure used to create our fossil based fuels from crude oils. Fact
is, there are some really nasty low end products even in the best
gasoline that prevent catalysts from working well before combustion
where it can do you the most good as far as efficiency and mileage is
concerned. In gasoline there is 10% of the so-called "additives"
which are not additives at all but stuff that is not taken OUT of the
process and that is what kills mileage. Remember, the worlds record
for specialty marathon high mileage vehicles is well over 9,000 mpg.

Why is it that every time that the EPA raises the level of ratings
for mpg, the car companies are so quick to comply? Why didn't they
produce them sooner? They are not years away from getting the product
in question to the market. Makes you wonder, eh? It happens as soon
as the upper limits are raised. Is this a trade off? The EPA says, OK
you are making a SUV that gets only 12-15 mpg, so now you have to
produce a vehicle that gets 50-60-70?
Maybe I'm wrong, I have been once, :-) but the conspiracy theories
about high mileage abound in the circles that I'm in.
I'm in the process of being hacked, possibly to find out what I know
about all this and I'm being mail bombed on a daily basis as a
harrassment ploy.
I'm not paranoid at all. I just know what's out there and what's
being done to curtail these new/old technologies.
Vested intrests regarding these matters are VERY powerfull.

MooNShiNeR




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[biofuel] Motors

[Pedro M.]

Motorbikes and low horspower  sea motors that uses DIESEL : 

http://journeytoforever.org/energiaweb/motor.htm

All the best. 


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Re: [biofuel] Re: magnetic savings / alky + dyno / hard water /

[jerry dycus]

  Hi Andrew, Dick and All,
 There is an easy way to check if magnets
work. Just start your motor, let it warm up then in
park or nuetral. Now take the rpm, then just put the
magnet on the fuel line. With no load the engine will
increase 100 rpm if it's 5% more eff because of the
magnets.
   Then we all can get back to things that work.
 jerry dycus
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Dick Carlstein"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  
> > *good post warren !! this magnet thing either
> works, or else  is 
> just more
> > urban legend. both ways, it shouldn't be hard to
> check out, like 
> checking
> > out novak's baby was easy.
> > 
> 
> I'd guess urban legend, because I can't see what
> exactly a magnet 
> would do to your fuel to make it work better. It
> could help catch 
> magnetic particles that are in your fuel (iron
> shavings) but beyond 
> that I'd like to see at least a proposed mechanism
> for fuel savings.  
> But hey, y'all are right, easy enough to test, so go
> for it.


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Re: [biofuel] Re: magnetic savings / alky + dyno / hard water /

[steve spence]

To what scientific principles do you attribute your gains?

Steve Spence
Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter:
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We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors,
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- Original Message -
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 7:16 PM
Subject: [biofuel] Re: magnetic savings / alky + dyno / hard water /




I use fuel line magnets myself, the rare earth variety out of the PC
hard drives, and I get a steady mileage increase of 4-5 mpg. I firmly
believe in them myself. Not everyone who has tried them gets good
results right off the bat. The trick is to move them around until you
find a sweet spot and keep them there. Do not just slap them on, find
you get no gain and say that they will not work. Sometimes it takes a
few tries at postitioning to get it right. Work with it some before
you give up on them.
Also, they are only effective on rubber lines as far as the research
that I'm privy to goes. No effect on steel lines whatsoever. Someone
I know is experimenting on an electromagnetic field on gas lines
further enhancing the desired effect. Tin and tin alloys are also
great to experiment with as a catalyser for breaking down the long
chain hydrocarbons which is what you are trying to do with the
magnetic fields.
If you want ultra high mileage gains, then there is no substitute for
TCC or Thermal Catalytic Cracking of the fuel (as long as your
dealing with hydrocarbons that is). This is basically the same
procedure used to create our fossil based fuels from crude oils. Fact
is, there are some really nasty low end products even in the best
gasoline that prevent catalysts from working well before combustion
where it can do you the most good as far as efficiency and mileage is
concerned. In gasoline there is 10% of the so-called "additives"
which are not additives at all but stuff that is not taken OUT of the
process and that is what kills mileage. Remember, the worlds record
for specialty marathon high mileage vehicles is well over 9,000 mpg.

Why is it that every time that the EPA raises the level of ratings
for mpg, the car companies are so quick to comply? Why didn't they
produce them sooner? They are not years away from getting the product
in question to the market. Makes you wonder, eh? It happens as soon
as the upper limits are raised. Is this a trade off? The EPA says, OK
you are making a SUV that gets only 12-15 mpg, so now you have to
produce a vehicle that gets 50-60-70?
Maybe I'm wrong, I have been once, :-) but the conspiracy theories
about high mileage abound in the circles that I'm in.
I'm in the process of being hacked, possibly to find out what I know
about all this and I'm being mail bombed on a daily basis as a
harrassment ploy.
I'm not paranoid at all. I just know what's out there and what's
being done to curtail these new/old technologies.
Vested intrests regarding these matters are VERY powerfull.

MooNShiNeR

--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "ian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> if you want strong magnets, you can get very very strong neodynium
magnets
> out of broken pc hard drives, they are small and great fun to play
with.
> Ian
> - Original Message -
> From: David Sanz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 2:58 PM
> Subject: Re: [biofuel] magnetic savings / alky + dyno / hard water /
> 
>
>
> Magnets?
> I use permanent magnets on fuel lines and air intake in my diesel,
> but... aparently nothing happens.
> It's only my opinion.
>
> David
>
> Imanes?
> Uso imanes permanentes en las l’neas de fuel y en la toma de
admisi—n de
> mi diesel, pero... aparentemente no mejora nada.
> Es s—lo mi opini—n.
>
> David
>
> Dick Carlstein wrote:
>
> >> From: Warren Rekow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> Subject: Fwd: Saving Gasoline and Money
> >>
> >> I've heard stories about putting magnets on gas lines to improve
fuel
> >> mileage for years Dick, perhaps magnets attached to the
tubing might
> >
> > increase the
> >
> >> effectiveness of foggers?
> >
> >
> > *good post warren !! this magnet thing either works, or else  is
just more
> > urban legend. both ways, it shouldn't be hard to check out, like
checking
> > out novak's baby was easy.
> >
> > *will come up with a test routine, and post when i have my
numbers in,
> just
> > like the fogger.
> >
> > *some questions  into the article :
> >
> >> ...Later, I discovered these devices contained simple magnets
with
> >> the south-seeking poles directed inward
> >
> >
> > *besides floating one of them, and then comparing, is there some
other
> > method for determining a magnet's south that i am unaware of, or
have
> > forgotten ?
> >
> >> The magnets used are fairly strong rare-earth strontium
ferroxide ceramic
> >> magnets wh

[biofuel] Re: magnetic savings / alky + dyno / hard water /

[dabbs]

I use fuel line magnets myself, the rare earth variety out of the PC 
hard drives, and I get a steady mileage increase of 4-5 mpg. I firmly 
believe in them myself. Not everyone who has tried them gets good 
results right off the bat. The trick is to move them around until you 
find a sweet spot and keep them there. Do not just slap them on, find 
you get no gain and say that they will not work. Sometimes it takes a 
few tries at postitioning to get it right. Work with it some before 
you give up on them. 
Also, they are only effective on rubber lines as far as the research 
that I'm privy to goes. No effect on steel lines whatsoever. Someone 
I know is experimenting on an electromagnetic field on gas lines 
further enhancing the desired effect. Tin and tin alloys are also 
great to experiment with as a catalyser for breaking down the long 
chain hydrocarbons which is what you are trying to do with the 
magnetic fields.
If you want ultra high mileage gains, then there is no substitute for 
TCC or Thermal Catalytic Cracking of the fuel (as long as your 
dealing with hydrocarbons that is). This is basically the same 
procedure used to create our fossil based fuels from crude oils. Fact 
is, there are some really nasty low end products even in the best 
gasoline that prevent catalysts from working well before combustion 
where it can do you the most good as far as efficiency and mileage is 
concerned. In gasoline there is 10% of the so-called "additives" 
which are not additives at all but stuff that is not taken OUT of the 
process and that is what kills mileage. Remember, the worlds record 
for specialty marathon high mileage vehicles is well over 9,000 mpg. 

Why is it that every time that the EPA raises the level of ratings 
for mpg, the car companies are so quick to comply? Why didn't they 
produce them sooner? They are not years away from getting the product 
in question to the market. Makes you wonder, eh? It happens as soon 
as the upper limits are raised. Is this a trade off? The EPA says, OK 
you are making a SUV that gets only 12-15 mpg, so now you have to 
produce a vehicle that gets 50-60-70?
Maybe I'm wrong, I have been once, :-) but the conspiracy theories 
about high mileage abound in the circles that I'm in. 
I'm in the process of being hacked, possibly to find out what I know 
about all this and I'm being mail bombed on a daily basis as a 
harrassment ploy. 
I'm not paranoid at all. I just know what's out there and what's 
being done to curtail these new/old technologies.
Vested intrests regarding these matters are VERY powerfull.

MooNShiNeR 

--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "ian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> if you want strong magnets, you can get very very strong neodynium 
magnets
> out of broken pc hard drives, they are small and great fun to play 
with.
> Ian
> - Original Message -
> From: David Sanz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 2:58 PM
> Subject: Re: [biofuel] magnetic savings / alky + dyno / hard water /
> 
> 
> 
> Magnets?
> I use permanent magnets on fuel lines and air intake in my diesel,
> but... aparently nothing happens.
> It's only my opinion.
> 
> David
> 
> Imanes?
> Uso imanes permanentes en las l’neas de fuel y en la toma de 
admisi—n de
> mi diesel, pero... aparentemente no mejora nada.
> Es s—lo mi opini—n.
> 
> David
> 
> Dick Carlstein wrote:
> 
> >> From: Warren Rekow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> Subject: Fwd: Saving Gasoline and Money
> >>
> >> I've heard stories about putting magnets on gas lines to improve 
fuel
> >> mileage for years Dick, perhaps magnets attached to the 
tubing might
> >
> > increase the
> >
> >> effectiveness of foggers?
> >
> >
> > *good post warren !! this magnet thing either works, or else  is 
just more
> > urban legend. both ways, it shouldn't be hard to check out, like 
checking
> > out novak's baby was easy.
> >
> > *will come up with a test routine, and post when i have my 
numbers in,
> just
> > like the fogger.
> >
> > *some questions  into the article :
> >
> >> ...Later, I discovered these devices contained simple magnets 
with
> >> the south-seeking poles directed inward
> >
> >
> > *besides floating one of them, and then comparing, is there some 
other
> > method for determining a magnet's south that i am unaware of, or 
have
> > forgotten ?
> >
> >> The magnets used are fairly strong rare-earth strontium 
ferroxide ceramic
> >> magnets which will pinch your fingers (Ouch!) if you are not 
careful, and
> >> four of them are enough for a single fuel-line for one car.  Any 
similar
> >> strong magnet will work
> >
> >
> > *such as speaker magnets ? how do i determine if a magnet is 
strong enough
> > for this application ?
> >
> >> Like the orgone accumulator, it is too simple for most people to
> >
> > believe...
> >
> > *i know for a fact that something very similar to an 'orgone 
accumulator'
> > works just fine, and does generate fuel savings at a reasonable 
cost. this
> 

Re: [biofuel] Fwd: Saving Gasoline and Money

[David Reid]

Thanks Steve,
  Had a good laugh. Sometimes when I see something like
this I cant believe that people would be so gullible and am really glad I
come from a small place like NZ where the majority of people are basically
honest and even the evil ones among us preying on the gullibility of the
innocents dont get up to too much harm or mischief. I think the advantage of
a small community is you dont get sucked in by the hype surrounding certain
things and people generated by large numbers..
B.r.,  David

- Original Message -
From: steve spence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 11:36 PM
Subject: Re: [biofuel] Fwd: Saving Gasoline and Money


> DISCLAIMER
>
> This URL is provided for amusement purposes only. Do not take this as a
> recommendation.
>
> http://www.inter-con.on.ca/triclean.htm



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Re: [biofuel] What about making engine oil?

[steve spence]

an "engine blow" is such a fun exposition. I'll take pics for you all :-)


Steve Spence
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- Original Message -
From: "Appal Energy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 5:30 PM
Subject: Re: [biofuel] What about making engine oil?


> > I wonder how long a diesel rabbit engine would last, with veggie oil in
> the
> > crankcase. I just might try. they are pretty cheap at our junkyard. I'll
> add
> > one of your filters, Dave.
> ..
>
> Steve,
>
> Make sure the oil has at minimum had the lecithin extracted. That will at
> least double the life of the oil as a lubricant.
>
> Bad rings on the pistons will also ensure that the biodiesel enhances the
> crankcase oil.
>
> I'd refrain, but I'm just a mad Irishman on the lunatic fringe. You, on
the
> other hand, might be a bit more "touched."  (Liberty taken - sorry!) :-)
>
> Todd
> Appal Energy
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
>   Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
>   www.
>
>
>
>
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address.
> To unsubscribe, send an email to:
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>
>


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Re: [biofuel] Fwd: Saving Gasoline and Money

[steve spence]

Don't take my word for it. His exploits are well known. his specialty is
genital mutations, not energy.

http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_073.html

http://www.nocirc.org/symposia/fourth/demeo.html

http://skepdic.com/orgone.html

this is also related to the "free energy " "joe cell" and other paranormal
quackery.

There is so much work to be done in the realms of real science, it's a shame
to see people sidelined by the silly stuff.

Steve Spence
Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter:
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We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors,
we borrow it from our children.
--

- Original Message -
From: "Warren Rekow" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 5:32 PM
Subject: Re: [biofuel] Fwd: Saving Gasoline and Money


> Steve said:
> >James DeMeo is a quack. have you seen
http://www.orgonelab.org/xbjdemeo.htm?
> >
> >Pretty Sharp Fellow? at lightening peoples wallets most likely.
>
> Steve, you seem to be beyond the bounds of your paradigm. I have no
> wish to offend you or make you uncomfortable. My apologies for
> bringing you here.
>
> As for the application of magnets to fuel lines, I shall give it a
> try and report the initial results here when available. I have kept a
> record of fuel mileage for my diesel-engine Dodge Ram pickup, so
> there exists a specific baseline for comparison.
> --
> ...Warren Rekow
>
>   Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address.
> To unsubscribe, send an email to:
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>
>


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Re: [biofuel] What about making engine oil?

[Appal Energy]

> I wonder how long a diesel rabbit engine would last, with veggie oil in
the
> crankcase. I just might try. they are pretty cheap at our junkyard. I'll
add
> one of your filters, Dave.
..

Steve,

Make sure the oil has at minimum had the lecithin extracted. That will at
least double the life of the oil as a lubricant.

Bad rings on the pistons will also ensure that the biodiesel enhances the
crankcase oil.

I'd refrain, but I'm just a mad Irishman on the lunatic fringe. You, on the
other hand, might be a bit more "touched."  (Liberty taken - sorry!) :-)

Todd
Appal Energy
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



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Re: [biofuel] Fwd: Saving Gasoline and Money

[Warren Rekow]

Steve said:
>James DeMeo is a quack. have you seen http://www.orgonelab.org/xbjdemeo.htm?
>
>Pretty Sharp Fellow? at lightening peoples wallets most likely.

Steve, you seem to be beyond the bounds of your paradigm. I have no 
wish to offend you or make you uncomfortable. My apologies for 
bringing you here.

As for the application of magnets to fuel lines, I shall give it a 
try and report the initial results here when available. I have kept a 
record of fuel mileage for my diesel-engine Dodge Ram pickup, so 
there exists a specific baseline for comparison.
-- 
...Warren Rekow

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Re: [biofuel] Fwd: Saving Gasoline and Money

[David Reid]

Jeremy,
I personally dont think it will work. I am aware that magnets
fitted to a non ferrous water line will work to some degree in preventing
calcine and other build up in the line though to what degree I dont know.
Even this could be hogwash and there could be other reasons for it. I am
personally totally sceptical of them working with gasoline and certainly
cant see anything like the  gas mileage  % improvements claimed even is they
did work to some degree.  This was the reason for my light hearted rather
cynical comments yesterday.
B.r.,  David

- Original Message -
From: Jeremy Shuey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 10:08 AM
Subject: Re: [biofuel] Fwd: Saving Gasoline and Money


> I don't know for sure if it will or not.  I just said
> I may try it to see what would happen.  ;-)
>
> Jeremy
> --- David  Reid <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Jeremy,
> > I can see the magnets might work on
> > water for the reasons you
> > asscribe but why should they work with gasoline.and
> > why should you get
> > increased mileage?
> > B.r.,  David
> > >
> > > I do know that the magnets work on the water.  We
> > have
> > > extremely hard water here in my part of PA, with
> > the
> > > limestone and all, and the magnets actually make
> > the
> > > water a whole lot more soft.  The idea behind the
> > > magnets is that it actually aligns the molecules
> > in
> > > the fluid, or water in my case.  I have had them
> > on
> > > for years, (about 10 now) and the pipes havn't
> > clogged
> > > or had any other problems associated with any idea
> > of
> > > problems with the magnets.  H I think i may
> > try to
> > > put some on my Jetta and see what happens with my
> > fuel
> > > mileage.   NE Ways.. let ya know what happens.
> > >
> > > Jeremy



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Re: [biofuel] Fwd: Saving Gasoline and Money

[Jeremy Shuey]

I don't know for sure if it will or not.  I just said
I may try it to see what would happen.  ;-)

Jeremy
--- David  Reid <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Jeremy,
> I can see the magnets might work on
> water for the reasons you
> asscribe but why should they work with gasoline.and
> why should you get
> increased mileage?
> B.r.,  David
> >
> > I do know that the magnets work on the water.  We
> have
> > extremely hard water here in my part of PA, with
> the
> > limestone and all, and the magnets actually make
> the
> > water a whole lot more soft.  The idea behind the
> > magnets is that it actually aligns the molecules
> in
> > the fluid, or water in my case.  I have had them
> on
> > for years, (about 10 now) and the pipes havn't
> clogged
> > or had any other problems associated with any idea
> of
> > problems with the magnets.  H I think i may
> try to
> > put some on my Jetta and see what happens with my
> fuel
> > mileage.   NE Ways.. let ya know what happens.
> >
> > Jeremy
> >
> > __
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great
> prices
> > http://auctions.yahoo.com/
> >
> > Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the
> list address.
> > To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 


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Re: [biofuel] What about making engine oil?

[David Reid]

Not a very scientific experiment if you ask me Steve although it might give
you some idea on how long oil made by a rank amateur would last. As I have
stated before several times oil is made from 2 things, namely the oil base
stock and the additive package. Both of these are important and it is the
quality of both these that determine the quality of the final oil produced,
how long it lasts, and how effective it is. Without a decent additive
package the oil will not last and the results produced are more a comment on
the standard of engineering rather than the quality of the oil. While the
by-pass oil filter would undoubtedly extend the life of the engine the
results produced would be somewhat spurious and debateable as we dont know
the condition of the engine initially.
I believe people would benefit a lot more by learning a lot more about oil
instead. While there are a lot of sites justifying additives which mostly
dont work there are some good sites on the web that people can learn from.
B.r.,  David

- Original Message -
From: steve spence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 8:56 AM
Subject: Re: [biofuel] What about making engine oil?


> I wonder how long a diesel rabbit engine would last, with veggie oil in
the
> crankcase. I just might try. they are pretty cheap at our junkyard. I'll
add
> one of your filters, Dave.



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Re: [biofuel] What about making engine oil?

[Biofuels]

CASTROL R


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[biofuel] RE:Makin' your own oil ETC (long)

[Clayton T]

Sparked a memory of a news story I saw a couple of
years ago. Seems this guy in Colorado stumbled on the
formula that wouldn't rot or seperate under the heat
of the engine. I think I found his site at


Kieth/Steve thanks for fying that person off the list.


Flagged down a guy yesterday that ran on nothin but
propane. Sounded awfully wierd for a diesel. I've seen
conversion kits for  the hybrid using propane and
diesel. Where and why would you want to go straight
propane? Seems a bit impractical here in the open
spaces of Texas. Thoughts?

Cordain,
I started by brainstorming on the things that take the
most time in the process and used existing technology
and worked the time backwards to the desired outcome.
 It actually started as a game for me.  You see in the
business I'm in people are given a pile of  equipment 
and told to make it work.  What I did was take the
problem and all the technology I'm aware of  and try
to make it faster.
Try it, you might even get the process faster.
Clayton T 




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Re: [biofuel] Re: Climate Change Debate at the Oxford Union

[steve spence]

ROFLMAO


Steve Spence
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--

- Original Message - 
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 5:10 PM
Subject: [biofuel] Re: Climate Change Debate at the Oxford Union


> You're preachin' to the choir Steve. I just had an extended 
> e-mail debate with a buddy of mine last week about how Clinton was 
> just window dressing. He seams to think Clinton was better than Bush, 
> I say that although he put up a front, he didn't DO anything, which 
> made him tacitly just the same.  I think my original point about the 
> debate was only that Bush, being vocally opposed to Kyoto, and our 
> national front man (wow that's hard to bear. All you folks from 
> outside the US must just laugh at us) is the obvious choice for a 
> target for the mentioned debate.
> 
> Oh, and by the way, I've got some cool magnet headbands that will turn 
> any Democrat into a Green if you wear it for at least eight hours a 
> day. Be warned, don't wear it inside out or you'll turn into a 
> republican!
> 
> -andrew
> 
> 
> --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "steve spence" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > ah, but didn't they do that while Clinton was in office, and he 
> ignored
> > them, and made the world think we were "with the program" knowing 
> right well
> > he didn't have the authority? this was no surprise. congress was 
> never going
> > to ratify Kyoto, which leaves the pres high and dry even if he 
> wanted it.
> > 
> 
> > 
> > > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "steve spence" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > hmm... wasn't it Congress, and not GW, that turned down Kyoto?
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > technically yes, congress has yet to ratify Kyoto. But Dubyah has
> > > publicly come out against it which means that it is pretty much 
> now
> > > dead, rather than merely tabled.
> > >
> > > -Andrew
> > >
> > >
> > >   Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > >
> > >   www.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> > > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address.
> > > To unsubscribe, send an email to:
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> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of 
> Service.
> > >
> > >
> 
> 
>   Yahoo! Groups Sponsor 
>   
>   
>
>  
>  
> 
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
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Re: [biofuel] bypass filters

[David Reid]

Hi Gary,
 Yes as you will have seen from my posts they are still around
and like most by-pass filters they really work. This can be quickly
ascertained by  laboratory Fluids Analysis. In the past, say 35 or 40 years
ago, their usefulness and reliability may have been questionable but today
with supporting data from analytical labs readily available their
reliability and the fact that they actually work is unquestionable. Today
with an ever dwindling amount of oil available and increasing pollution
worldwide their implementation and use on every vehicle should be paramount.
Rather than digging our heads in the sand and saying yes we are building
better quality oils today than we have ever done in the past which is true
everybody should be looking ahead and minimising oil useage and wasteage
through the implementation of these devices as well rather than maximising
oil consumption which is increasing all the time due to increasing numbers
of vehicles on the road.. Failure to do so is nothing short of complicity
with the large oil companies who have exploited and wasted the worlds
resources for the last 100 years.
B.r.,  David

- Original Message -
From: Dr. Gary Nelson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 5:11 AM
Subject: Re: [biofuel] bypass filters


> Years ago I used Frantz bypass filters on several cars and never changed
the
> dino oil. Every 1000 to 1500 miles
> I changed the toilet paper filter and added a quart of oil. The oil always
> looked like it just came out of the can.
> No objective data as to added longetivity of engines as the cars we sold
off
> before engine problems might have surfaced.
> However, it makes sense that haveing no visible crud in the oil is
goodness.
>
> At some point, Frantz seemed to disappear and I assumed they were out of
> business.



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[biofuel] Re: Climate Change Debate at the Oxford Union

[physkid]

You're preachin' to the choir Steve. I just had an extended 
e-mail debate with a buddy of mine last week about how Clinton was 
just window dressing. He seams to think Clinton was better than Bush, 
I say that although he put up a front, he didn't DO anything, which 
made him tacitly just the same.  I think my original point about the 
debate was only that Bush, being vocally opposed to Kyoto, and our 
national front man (wow that's hard to bear. All you folks from 
outside the US must just laugh at us) is the obvious choice for a 
target for the mentioned debate.

Oh, and by the way, I've got some cool magnet headbands that will turn 
any Democrat into a Green if you wear it for at least eight hours a 
day. Be warned, don't wear it inside out or you'll turn into a 
republican!

-andrew


--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "steve spence" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> ah, but didn't they do that while Clinton was in office, and he 
ignored
> them, and made the world think we were "with the program" knowing 
right well
> he didn't have the authority? this was no surprise. congress was 
never going
> to ratify Kyoto, which leaves the pres high and dry even if he 
wanted it.
> 

> 
> > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "steve spence" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > hmm... wasn't it Congress, and not GW, that turned down Kyoto?
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > technically yes, congress has yet to ratify Kyoto. But Dubyah has
> > publicly come out against it which means that it is pretty much 
now
> > dead, rather than merely tabled.
> >
> > -Andrew
> >
> >
> >   Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> >
> >   www.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address.
> > To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of 
Service.
> >
> >


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Re: [biofuel] Digest Number 445

[Appal Energy]

> anyone know about how much $ you can get per 100 gal out of the glycerin
> you get from of the biodiesel process ?
...

Bank on 75 ml crude glycerin per liter of feedstock, post alcohol recovery

Price received for glycerin will depend upon what caustic is used, whether
it has been neutralized or removed, volume sold, consistent or occasional
sales, method of delivery, etc., all most ad infinitum.

Each region will offer a different answer. Calculate $0.8 a pound crude,
neutralized KOH, railroad tanker volume (20,000 gallons), FOB glycerin
origin. That is a two month old price "quote."

Prices are going to drop as more biodiesel comes on line.

Market's present oil glut? -  ~3,000,000,000 gallons - that's 3 with a B -
illion.

That amounts to ~237,000,000 gallons of crude glycerin if converted to
biodiesel. Almost one gallon for every man, woman and child in the middle
continent latitudes of North America.

I wouldn't bank on receipts for crude glycerin to make a business plan work.
In house refining or conversion maybe.

Nothing like building an entire city just to make biodiesel, eh?

Todd
Appal Energy
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: [biofuel] What about making engine oil?

[steve spence]

I wonder how long a diesel rabbit engine would last, with veggie oil in the
crankcase. I just might try. they are pretty cheap at our junkyard. I'll add
one of your filters, Dave.



Steve Spence
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- Original Message -
From: "David Reid" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 4:48 PM
Subject: Re: [biofuel] What about making engine oil?


> Fischmann,
>  Yes you could make your own oils, particularly vegetable
> based oils BUT and I emphasize BUT you need a lot of knowledge and
> expertise. (In short you really need to be a chemist and specialise in
> oils). A lot of the modern synthetics are vegetable based oils with fully
> synthetics having a large % of vegetable oil base.  Oils as such are made
> fom 2 main things,  namely the oil base stock and the additive package. It
> is the quality of both these things that determine the quality of the
> finished products. Quality manufacture is beyond the range and ability of
> the amateur. That is not to say it cant be done in the longrun but without
a
> lot of dedication, attention to detail, and massive investment you are
never
> likely to get there. I somehow think at that point you have well and truly
> left the rank of amateur behind.
> B.r., David
>
> - Original Message -
> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 7:34 AM
> Subject: [biofuel] What about making engine oil?
>
>
> > Greetings:
> >Is it possible to make engine oil, (for the crankcase) in the
same
> > manner as making bio-diesel? I've read several e-mail postings about
> special
> > filters for regular, petroleum based oils, what about veggie oils?
> >   It seems to me I read somewhere that years ago, (like, back in the
> > early 1900's) race cars used vegetable oil to lubricate the engines of
> their
> > cars. Has anyone else heard of this? Has anyone else tried this with
their
> > own automobile, (perhaps even some kind of stationary engine, farm
tractor
> > engine, etc.).
> >I would love to hear any input you all might have.
> >Thanks - Fischmann
>
>
>
>   Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> Say you love them
> with a DOMAIN NAME!
> www.
>
>
>
>
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
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>


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Re: [biofuel] Re: Climate Change Debate at the Oxford Union

[steve spence]

ah, but didn't they do that while Clinton was in office, and he ignored
them, and made the world think we were "with the program" knowing right well
he didn't have the authority? this was no surprise. congress was never going
to ratify Kyoto, which leaves the pres high and dry even if he wanted it.


Steve Spence
Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter:
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[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors,
we borrow it from our children.
--

- Original Message -
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 4:46 PM
Subject: [biofuel] Re: Climate Change Debate at the Oxford Union


> --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "steve spence" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > hmm... wasn't it Congress, and not GW, that turned down Kyoto?
> >
> >
>
>
> technically yes, congress has yet to ratify Kyoto. But Dubyah has
> publicly come out against it which means that it is pretty much now
> dead, rather than merely tabled.
>
> -Andrew
>
>
>   Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
>   www.
>
>
>
>
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address.
> To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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>
>


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Re: [biofuel] What about making engine oil?

[David Reid]

Fischmann,
 Yes you could make your own oils, particularly vegetable
based oils BUT and I emphasize BUT you need a lot of knowledge and
expertise. (In short you really need to be a chemist and specialise in
oils). A lot of the modern synthetics are vegetable based oils with fully
synthetics having a large % of vegetable oil base.  Oils as such are made
fom 2 main things,  namely the oil base stock and the additive package. It
is the quality of both these things that determine the quality of the
finished products. Quality manufacture is beyond the range and ability of
the amateur. That is not to say it cant be done in the longrun but without a
lot of dedication, attention to detail, and massive investment you are never
likely to get there. I somehow think at that point you have well and truly
left the rank of amateur behind.
B.r., David

- Original Message -
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 7:34 AM
Subject: [biofuel] What about making engine oil?


> Greetings:
>Is it possible to make engine oil, (for the crankcase) in the same
> manner as making bio-diesel? I've read several e-mail postings about
special
> filters for regular, petroleum based oils, what about veggie oils?
>   It seems to me I read somewhere that years ago, (like, back in the
> early 1900's) race cars used vegetable oil to lubricate the engines of
their
> cars. Has anyone else heard of this? Has anyone else tried this with their
> own automobile, (perhaps even some kind of stationary engine, farm tractor
> engine, etc.).
>I would love to hear any input you all might have.
>Thanks - Fischmann



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[biofuel] Re: Climate Change Debate at the Oxford Union

[physkid]

--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "steve spence" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> hmm... wasn't it Congress, and not GW, that turned down Kyoto?
> 
> 


technically yes, congress has yet to ratify Kyoto. But Dubyah has 
publicly come out against it which means that it is pretty much now 
dead, rather than merely tabled.

-Andrew


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[biofuel] Re: magnetic savings / alky + dyno / hard water /

[physkid]

--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Dick Carlstein" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
 
> *good post warren !! this magnet thing either works, or else  is 
just more
> urban legend. both ways, it shouldn't be hard to check out, like 
checking
> out novak's baby was easy.
> 

I'd guess urban legend, because I can't see what exactly a magnet 
would do to your fuel to make it work better. It could help catch 
magnetic particles that are in your fuel (iron shavings) but beyond 
that I'd like to see at least a proposed mechanism for fuel savings.  
But hey, y'all are right, easy enough to test, so go for it.



> *besides floating one of them, and then comparing, is there some 
other
> method for determining a magnet's south that i am unaware of, or 
have
> forgotten ?

a "south seeking pole" is the end that points south, i.e. the north 
pole of the magnet. The red end of any dimestore compass points to the 
north pole of a magnet. 


> *thanks for the info paul. i have it that benzene will allow a 
certain
> ammount of water contaminated ethanol to mix with gasoline, but have 
yet to
> try this. 

Please Please Please don't mess with Benzene unless you REALLY know 
what you are doing. Benzene is VERY VERY VERY VERY bad for you. You 
will die. If not today then tomorrow or the next day from a nasty 
cancer.

Working on getting the Berkeley Unified School District here in 
California to switch to B100, will update with progress,

-Andrew



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Re: [biofuel] What about making engine oil?

[ian]

veggie oil is used by some racing cars and motorcycles
i dont know the trade name tho.
Ian
- Original Message -
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 8:34 PM
Subject: [biofuel] What about making engine oil?


>I would love to hear any input you all might have.
>Thanks - Fischmann
>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
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>
>
>


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Re: [biofuel] RE: filter

[David Reid]

Hi David,
  Each filter is designed to filter a certain volume of oil and
sizes are determined by engine capacity and horsepower. Single filters use 1
filter roll, doubles use 2, and trebles use 3. The filter roll is contained
and restrained in a can, which slides onto a shaft pipe, sealed top and
bottom with a nitrile rubber seal, with each can being separated from one
another by something like 5/8'. The only way out for the oil is through the
filter, back up through a central shaft complete with top flange (boss) that
is fitted into the core to the top of each filter roll height and then out
through the shaft pipe. Each filter roll filters a certain volume of oil
independently thus maximising the volume of oil that each filter can handle
unlike what would happen if each filter roll was stacked on top of one
another and all the oil had to go from one end to the other ( possibly what
you have visualised and the reason for your question). Hope this explains
it.
B.r.,  David

- Original Message -
From: Crabb, David <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 5:32 AM
Subject: [biofuel] RE: filter


> why do you need 2 or 3 filters if one filter blocks anything > 1 micron?
>
> ==
>
> SPECIAL  INTRODUCTORY   OFFER
> Save 10% on what is already the best filter at the best price.
> Normally  1/5th to 2/5th the price of other competitors
> Definitely less than 1/2 the price of our cheapest competitor even
> before discount.
>
> For a limited time we are offering  MIL-MAC 4M By-pass Filters at
> the following prices :BE  QUICK.  This is a limited offer.
>
> SINGLE unit  SAVE approx  $35-00
> Filternormally   $210-00 retail   PAY $189-00
>Oil Installation Kit 75-00  "PAY 67-50
>2 m  x  Reinf.  Hose   25-00  "PAY 22-50
> G.S.T.38-75   PAY  34-88
> TOTAL $348-75   PAY $ 313-88
>
> DOUBLE unitSAVE approx  $47-00
> Filternormally   $320-00 retail   PAY  $288-00
> Oil Installation Kit   75-00   "PAY   67-50
> 2 m  x  Reinf. Hose  25-00   "PAY   22-50
> G.S.T.   52-50PAY47-25
> TOTAL$472-50PAY   $425-25
>
> TREBLE unit SAVE approx   $53-00
> Filternormally   $375-00 retail   PAY  $337-50
> Oil Installation Kit75-00   "   PAY  67-50
> 2 m  x  Reinf. Hose   25-00   "   PAY  22-50
>  G.S.T.   59-38   PAY   53-44
> TOTAL$534-38   PAY$480-94
>
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>
>
>


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Re: [biofuel] Climate Change Debate at the Oxford Union

[steve spence]

hmm... wasn't it Congress, and not GW, that turned down Kyoto?


Steve Spence
Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter:
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We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors,
we borrow it from our children.
--

- Original Message -
From: "Ray Foulk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Millennium Debate" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 4:04 PM
Subject: [biofuel] Climate Change Debate at the Oxford Union


Dear All,

A date for your diaries:

8.00pm, Wednesday 13th June 2001

MAKI MANDELA AT THE OXFORD UNION

proposing the motion:

THIS HOUSE CONDEMNS AMERICA'S NEGLECT OF CLIMATE CHANGE

(as justice and efficacy demand that rich countries cut emissions before the
Developing World joins in)

Dr Mandela (Executive Director, Development Bank of South Africa and
daughter of Nelson Mandela) is proposing the motion and will be supported
by:

Zac Goldsmith (editor, The Ecologist)

She will be opposed by:

Professor Philip Stott (Professor of Biogeography, University of London)

and David Victor (Council on Relations, New York, USA).

Attached is a press release and poster (you may be able to print the
attached poster) for the Climate Change Debate the Millennium Debate is
co-organising with Refocus Renewable Energy Magazine (Elsevier Publishers)
at the Oxford Union on Wednesday June 13th at 8.00pm.

We have arranged for this important event to be open to the public, so
please spread the word via email to potentially interested parties.

Posters are available to be put up, and tickets are available to sell.
Tickets are £3.00 (£1.50 concessions) and you can take a batch of 5, 10, 20
tickets or more, depending on how many environmentally friendly friends and
contacts you have. Tickets are available through the Millennium Debate or
the designated ticket outlets in Oxford (details below).

The Union holds 800 and we want to fill the place, so any ticket sales you
can manage will help.

Factions in the US do take note of Oxford Union debate results.

Here's to a topical, heated debate - and to making this a lively, memorable
event -

hope to see you there!

Many thanks

Claire Palmer
The MilIlennium Environment Debate
46 Nelson Street
Oxford OX2 6BE
T: +44 (0) 1865 552463
F: +44 (0) 1865 310773
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.millennium-debate.org

Posters and tickets can be delivered, or are available at: The Millennium
Debate, 46 Nelson
Street, Jericho (used to be a pub, junction of Wellington St and Nelson St)
01865 552463 Mobile: 07775 698 549

Tickets available at :
Uhuru Wholefoods, 48 Cowley Road
Magic Cafe, 108 Magdalene Rd, East Oxford (off Iffley Road)
Alpha Organic Cafe, 89 Oxford Covered Market (Market St entrance - 1st
cafe on the right)

46 Nelson Street (junction of Wellington Street) Jericho Oxford

---



Pre-press release EMBARGO TILL: 11am, 22 May 2001



Ms MANDELA TO LEAD CLIMATE CHANGE DEBATE AT THE OXFORD UNION

WEDNESDAY JUNE 13th 8.00pm.

--



"Why should America be responsible for cleaning up the world's air?

George W Bush



The daughter of the former South African president, Nelson Mandela, is to
take on the new Bush administration at the Oxford Union on 13 June, by
proposing that: This house Condemns America's Neglect of Climate Change (as
justice and efficacy demand that rich countries cut emissions before the
developing world joins in).


In a joint initiative, Oxford based charity, The Millennium Debate and
Elsevier Publisher's REFOCUS magazine (Renewable Energy Focus) are
co-organising the public debate at the Oxford Union. They have made a
special arrangement for non-members to attend on this occasion.

The debate centres around US President George W. Bush's recent decision to
withdraw from the Kyoto accord saying that Kyoto is unfair and exempts 80%
of the world, including population centres like China and India, from
compliance. The US stance, coming from a country with 5% of the world's
population that emits over 25% of the total world greenhouse gas emissions,
has lead to a world wide uproar, with some critics even proposing an all out
trade war on the United States.

Dr Maki Mandela insists that the issue is one that will affect the
Developing World more than American businessmen. The US Embassy in London
declined to put forward a speaker, though a representative from the Embassy
will be in attendance. Major oil companies, Exon and Texaco have also
declined to speak in the debate.

Speakers for the motion:

Dr Maki Mandela, Executive Director of the Development Bank of Southern
Africa (and daughter of Nelson Mandela);

Zac Goldsmith, Editor, The Ecologist

Speakers against the motion:

Philip Stott, Professor of Biogeography, University of London;

and David G. Victor, Council o

[biofuel] Climate Change Debate at the Oxford Union

[Ray Foulk]

Dear All,

A date for your diaries:

8.00pm, Wednesday 13th June 2001

MAKI MANDELA AT THE OXFORD UNION

proposing the motion: 

THIS HOUSE CONDEMNS AMERICA'S NEGLECT OF CLIMATE CHANGE 

(as justice and efficacy demand that rich countries cut emissions before the 
Developing World joins in) 

Dr Mandela (Executive Director, Development Bank of South Africa and daughter 
of Nelson Mandela) is proposing the motion and will be supported by: 

Zac Goldsmith (editor, The Ecologist) 

She will be opposed by: 

Professor Philip Stott (Professor of Biogeography, University of London)

and David Victor (Council on Relations, New York, USA). 

Attached is a press release and poster (you may be able to print the attached 
poster) for the Climate Change Debate the Millennium Debate is co-organising 
with Refocus Renewable Energy Magazine (Elsevier Publishers) at the Oxford 
Union on Wednesday June 13th at 8.00pm. 

We have arranged for this important event to be open to the public, so please 
spread the word via email to potentially interested parties. 

Posters are available to be put up, and tickets are available to sell. Tickets 
are £3.00 (£1.50 concessions) and you can take a batch of 5, 10, 20 tickets or 
more, depending on how many environmentally friendly friends and contacts you 
have. Tickets are available through the Millennium Debate or the designated 
ticket outlets in Oxford (details below).

The Union holds 800 and we want to fill the place, so any ticket sales you can 
manage will help.

Factions in the US do take note of Oxford Union debate results.

Here's to a topical, heated debate - and to making this a lively, memorable 
event - 

hope to see you there! 

Many thanks

Claire Palmer
The MilIlennium Environment Debate
46 Nelson Street
Oxford OX2 6BE
T: +44 (0) 1865 552463
F: +44 (0) 1865 310773
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.millennium-debate.org 

Posters and tickets can be delivered, or are available at: The Millennium 
Debate, 46 Nelson
Street, Jericho (used to be a pub, junction of Wellington St and Nelson St) 
01865 552463 Mobile: 07775 698 549

Tickets available at :
Uhuru Wholefoods, 48 Cowley Road
Magic Cafe, 108 Magdalene Rd, East Oxford (off Iffley Road)
Alpha Organic Cafe, 89 Oxford Covered Market (Market St entrance - 1st
cafe on the right)

46 Nelson Street (junction of Wellington Street) Jericho Oxford

---



Pre-press release EMBARGO TILL: 11am, 22 May 2001



Ms MANDELA TO LEAD CLIMATE CHANGE DEBATE AT THE OXFORD UNION 

WEDNESDAY JUNE 13th 8.00pm.

--



"Why should America be responsible for cleaning up the world's air?

George W Bush



The daughter of the former South African president, Nelson Mandela, is to take 
on the new Bush administration at the Oxford Union on 13 June, by proposing 
that: This house Condemns America's Neglect of Climate Change (as justice and 
efficacy demand that rich countries cut emissions before the developing world 
joins in).


In a joint initiative, Oxford based charity, The Millennium Debate and Elsevier 
Publisher's REFOCUS magazine (Renewable Energy Focus) are co-organising the 
public debate at the Oxford Union. They have made a special arrangement for 
non-members to attend on this occasion.

The debate centres around US President George W. Bush's recent decision to 
withdraw from the Kyoto accord saying that Kyoto is unfair and exempts 80% of 
the world, including population centres like China and India, from compliance. 
The US stance, coming from a country with 5% of the world's population that 
emits over 25% of the total world greenhouse gas emissions, has lead to a world 
wide uproar, with some critics even proposing an all out trade war on the 
United States. 

Dr Maki Mandela insists that the issue is one that will affect the Developing 
World more than American businessmen. The US Embassy in London declined to put 
forward a speaker, though a representative from the Embassy will be in 
attendance. Major oil companies, Exon and Texaco have also declined to speak in 
the debate.

Speakers for the motion:

Dr Maki Mandela, Executive Director of the Development Bank of Southern Africa 
(and daughter of Nelson Mandela); 

Zac Goldsmith, Editor, The Ecologist

Speakers against the motion:

Philip Stott, Professor of Biogeography, University of London; 

and David G. Victor, Council on Foreign Relations, United States

xxx

TEL: 01865 552463, 01865 843648 or MOBILE: 07775 698 549 for more information








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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RE: [biofuel] Conquest of the Land

[kirk]

Brilliant!
So glad to see I'm not the only person in the world to have read
Price/Pottenger.

I agree with your comments re dynamics of biological farming versus "better
living through chemistry" rubbish promoted by idustry/gvt with the exception
of trace elements.
If they aren't in the subsoil then deep rooted crops/weeds cannot lift what
is not there. This is true in sedimentary soils. When you remove crops from
these soils the trace elements leave also. It took ages to get what precious
few were there before agriculture and we effectively remove over 90% in many
instances in 40 years. Rock dust (granite), sea weed or other
supplementation can in many cases result in crop yield improvements of 30%
in the first year yet most gvt farm agents will provide zero information.

Keith, how on earth did you acquire such a broad education?
It's refreshing to find someone who values knowledge above ball games.

Kirk

-Original Message-
From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 10:32 AM
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [biofuel] Conquest of the Land


Hi Kirk

>Erosion is very visible.

Yet still much neglected after nearly a century of crisis calls.

>Perhaps more sinister is the invisible destruction of land. Trace element
>deficiency is every bit as deadly.

FAO Soils Bulletin 48, Rome 1982, "Micronutrients and the Nutrient
Status of Soils: A Global Study", 450 p, charted a disaster in the
making and called for urgent action.

 From a 1999 report: "What one recent study called 'the unexpected
importance of micro-element deficiencies and toxicities' is now
impacting on the most productive Green Revolution soils."

Anyway, the two types of erosion (among many others) are part and
parcel of the same phenomenon, with many of the same causes.

>Read "Nutrition and Physical
>Degeneration" by Weston Price and the animal study re same "Pottengers
Cats"
>by Frances Pottenger MD. Link to PP Foundation at very bottom of
>http://www.drduh.com
>You will not view people the same after reading these 2 books.

Nor yourself. Nor the world. Reading Price especially is a real
life-changer (and improver). Please see Nutrition and Physical
Degeneration by Weston A. Price, 1939:
http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library.html#price

Also: The Darwin of nutrition - Weston A. Price
http://journeytoforever.org/text_price.html

These pages link to extended reviews of Price's work, including long
excerpts and many photographs, as well as to some of Price's other
writing. A much better place to visit than the Price-Pottenger
Nutrition Foundation (which is not what it was) is Sally Fallon's
informative website at the Weston A. Price Foundation:
http://www.westonaprice.org/

>When you grow a crop and transport it away you remove things from the soil.
>You in essence "mine" it.

Not necessarily so. Husbandry can and should achieve an increase in
soil fertility levels in spite of what is removed in crops and
livestock. This is very well-established and is the basis of all the
forms of sustainable agriculture, and of course of the traditional
agricultural systems. Industrialised farming - what's somehow come to
be misnomered "conventional" farming - is indeed soil mining.

Good grassland management is a good example of what husbandry (and
biology) can achieve. A good grass mixture includes not only grass
but also legumes and deep-rooting herbs (aka weeds), maybe 25
different species. The grass ley (lasting one to four years or more,
depending on the system) is rotated over a farm and provides all the
fertility required for as many as five or six subsequent crops. In
one well-managed set of tests, a ley was planted and then divided in
half. On one half the grass was simply mown and left, nothing was
removed. The other half was heavily grazed, and a lot of beef and
dairy products were removed. Then both halves were ploughed up and
planted to the same crop, with no further treatment. The heavily
grazed half far outproduced the mown-and-left half. No magic
involved. The specialised gut of the cow, the effect of the urine and
the manure on the plants and the soil life, the careful timing to
synchronise grazing with plant growth and the decay of the wastes,
all more than make up for the growth of the cow and its milk
production. You end up with beef, milk, butter, hay, and a foot-deep
layer of superior compost covering the entire field. Also grass roots
are special: a rye plant can have 23 miles of roots; a rye-grass
plant can have 320 miles of roots - specially made to work with the
urine and the manure and the soil bugs to build up fertility. There
are such systems for all aspects of farming. When you start to
integrate them and fine-tune them to the land, crops, climate, local
conditions and the market, you can end up with something very fine,
and with a very low level of off-farm inputs, approaching zero. So
why isn't everybody doing it? Where's the profit for the agribusiness
giants? But many are doin

Re: [biofuel] Fwd: Saving Gasoline and Money

[steve spence]

James DeMeo is a quack. have you seen http://www.orgonelab.org/xbjdemeo.htm?

Pretty Sharp Fellow? at lightening peoples wallets most likely.


Steve Spence
Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter:
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Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.com
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[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(212) 894-3704 x3154 - voicemail/fax
We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors,
we borrow it from our children.
--

- Original Message - 
From: "Warren Rekow" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2001 10:36 PM
Subject: Re: [biofuel] Fwd: Saving Gasoline and Money


> Steve replied:
> >Um, uh, guys? what have you all been smoking? magnets on gas lines (and
> >water lines) is right up there with ceramic laundry disks. really
> 
> Ha! Hi Steve! ;-)
> Well... so have you actually tried it, as described in the article? I 
> have viewed this in the same way you just expressed. But, James DeMeo 
> is a pretty sharp fellow. He says it actually works for him. Jeremy 
> just replied that it has worked for him for several years on his 
> water lines. I sure don't have all the right answers, and life has 
> brought many a surprise. Tell you what, let's both try it. Maybe we 
> learn something new and useful in spite of our 'knowledge'.
> -- 
> ...Warren Rekow
> 
>   Yahoo! Groups Sponsor 
> www.  
>  
>
>  
>  
> 
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. 
> To unsubscribe, send an email to:
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> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. 
> 
> 


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[biofuel] What about making engine oil?

[Fischmann]

Greetings: 
   Is it possible to make engine oil, (for the crankcase) in the same 
manner as making bio-diesel? I've read several e-mail postings about special 
filters for regular, petroleum based oils, what about veggie oils? 
  It seems to me I read somewhere that years ago, (like, back in the 
early 1900's) race cars used vegetable oil to lubricate the engines of their 
cars. Has anyone else heard of this? Has anyone else tried this with their 
own automobile, (perhaps even some kind of stationary engine, farm tractor 
engine, etc.). 
   I would love to hear any input you all might have. 
   Thanks - Fischmann


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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Re: [biofuel] Why you should fit a MIL

[David Reid]

Hi Paul,

> David,
> Thanks for the info, and for being so frank. You don't seem to have much
> faith in my old Toyota.
** I dont think I would say that. In my opinion Toyota are probably the best
of the large Japanese manufacturers. Their diesels particularly are some of
the best of the small diesels. A lot of their 2.4 and 2.8 litre diesel swb
and lwb vans being used by couriers and others here clocking up high
mileages have easily exceeded 1,000,000 km giving few problems when
regularly maintained. Most of the time when these sort of vehicles give
problems is when they have not been maintained properly or serviced by staff
that are incompetant. If you look back over a vehicles history that all of a
sudden gives problems you will invariably find a period when the vehicle was
not maintained properly or at all.

> The smoke it blows is black not blue and very little oil is used between
> changes,not enough to justify adding oil.
** Regardless of what manufacturers or owners claim virtually all vehicles
use some oil. It may vary from very little where there is virtually no wear
to a reasonable amount where there is a reasonable amount of wear
particularly where the vehicle is an older vehicle. Oil useage is invariably
related to speed, the higher the speed the higher the consumption.
You may be in luck and the vehicle may last some considerable time yet.
Black smoke is almost always unburnt or incomplete combustion due to
injector timing or over supply of diesel. If you are using very little oil
then this tends to suggest that the rings are in  better condition than you
imagine. Excessive smoke is more likely to be an injector problem than
anything else if you are not using oil.

> It has always been a smokey engine despite attention to injectors etc. The
> ammount of smoke varies with engine load.  Keeping the revs between 2,500
> and 4,000 and using a small "throttle opening" minumises it. Adjusting the
> smoke screw only reduces the already inadequate performance.
** Tends to suggest an injector problem and adjustment rather than something
else.
After 350,000
> km the rings are most probably worn as indicated by the vehicles tendency
to
> creep forwards when parked on a slope and restrained only by engine
braking,
> low-range first.
** Yes does tend to suggest ring wear.
> The following may sound like an add but should be familiar.
> The Hilux is the most reliable,economical ,practicle vehicle I have ever
> owned. (Lets not mention lack of comfort or character). Running costs so
far
> (fuel, oil,grease,servicing,parts, repairs,tyres,registration,insurance
etc)
> 11.9c/km.  Fuel consumption 10L/100km. Last set of front tyres lasted
> 81,000km,rears still going. Brakes relined 259,000 and 440,000.
> Exhaust system replaced 259,000 and currently in good condition.
> Clutch,gearbox,transfere case, front & rear diffs all origional.  Used
> daily, often carries load, current odometer reading 540,000km.  End of ad.
> and no I wouldn't sell it for quids.
> Lets consider the operation of 4 stroke diesel engines.
> unlike their petrol equivalent, diesels have no variable restriction in
the
> inlet tract (butterfly in carb or air inlet for fuel injection). Oil
burning
> in the petrol 4 stroke is usually associated with worn rings/bore or
> faulty/worn valve guides or valve stem seals. It is most obvious when the
> air pressure inside the cylinder is substantially less than that in the
> sump. Such conditions occur when the throttle is suddenly closed at high
rpm
> or after prolonged idling. The diesel takes a full gulp of air at each
> intake stroke regardless of "throttle setting" so the difference in
pressure
> between cylinder and sump at induction is not so great especially with
> positive crankcase ventilation.
> The increased pressure and temperature of the diesel engine combustion
would
> probably burn the lubricating oil more effectively producing black smoke
> from an enriched mixture.
> Ring blowby also feeds oil fumes to the intake. The original engine in the
> Hilux was treated to some spray start (ether) by an unsympathetic
unknowing
> moron ( me) when it refused to start one winter. (Glow plugs coated with
> soot don't warm the preignition chambers too well).  End result broken
> rings.
** If you have replaced the rings it dosnt suprise me that the vehicle
smokes. What were the rings you used in replacement? Where they genuine
Toyota rings? Even these are extremely hard to get exactly right because of
a certain amount of wear already in the engine. Replacement with anything
other than genuine Toyota rings always seems to give trouble. You would
probably find if you pulled the emgine down and measured everthing up that
invariably there is more wear in one or two cylinders compared to the
others. Also very true of end gap clearance.
This is where fitting a by-pass filter can help as rather than letting wear
continue because of certain factors being out of balance they can help in
letting things slowly 

Re: [biofuel] magnetic savings / alky + dyno / hard water /

[ian]

if you want strong magnets, you can get very very strong neodynium magnets
out of broken pc hard drives, they are small and great fun to play with.
Ian
- Original Message -
From: David Sanz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 2:58 PM
Subject: Re: [biofuel] magnetic savings / alky + dyno / hard water /



Magnets?
I use permanent magnets on fuel lines and air intake in my diesel,
but... aparently nothing happens.
It's only my opinion.

David

Imanes?
Uso imanes permanentes en las l’neas de fuel y en la toma de admisi—n de
mi diesel, pero... aparentemente no mejora nada.
Es s—lo mi opini—n.

David

Dick Carlstein wrote:

>> From: Warren Rekow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> Subject: Fwd: Saving Gasoline and Money
>>
>> I've heard stories about putting magnets on gas lines to improve fuel
>> mileage for years Dick, perhaps magnets attached to the tubing might
>
> increase the
>
>> effectiveness of foggers?
>
>
> *good post warren !! this magnet thing either works, or else  is just more
> urban legend. both ways, it shouldn't be hard to check out, like checking
> out novak's baby was easy.
>
> *will come up with a test routine, and post when i have my numbers in,
just
> like the fogger.
>
> *some questions  into the article :
>
>> ...Later, I discovered these devices contained simple magnets with
>> the south-seeking poles directed inward
>
>
> *besides floating one of them, and then comparing, is there some other
> method for determining a magnet's south that i am unaware of, or have
> forgotten ?
>
>> The magnets used are fairly strong rare-earth strontium ferroxide ceramic
>> magnets which will pinch your fingers (Ouch!) if you are not careful, and
>> four of them are enough for a single fuel-line for one car.  Any similar
>> strong magnet will work
>
>
> *such as speaker magnets ? how do i determine if a magnet is strong enough
> for this application ?
>
>> Like the orgone accumulator, it is too simple for most people to
>
> believe...
>
> *i know for a fact that something very similar to an 'orgone accumulator'
> works just fine, and does generate fuel savings at a reasonable cost. this
> lends credibility to this gent's thesis.
>
>> You can get the magnets at any Radio Shack...
>
>
> *it would sure help to have a rs cat # or something more specific to go
on.
> any chance of obtaining this ? rs is such a comfy one-stop place for all
of
> these odds and ends, i find...
>
>> ...Natural Energy Works has been selling
>> these simple strong magnets for years, available in sets of 10 for $10
>
> plus
>
>> $7 USA-Canada shipping, along with a little book on the subject for
>
> $12.95.
>
>> The same effect works also on your propane or natural gas stove or
>
> furnace,
>
>> when magnets are added to the feed lines just before the burners or
>> combustion chambers.
>
>
> *what shape and size are the magnets n.e.w. sells ? 12.95 for a booklet on
> why and how it works sounds a bit steep to me. thoughts on this ?
>
> *notice closeness to entry point is invariably stressed. is 'the closer
the
> better', or will 'close enough' do ?
>
> *nice project for anybody willing to keep statistically significant tabs
on
> fuel use. i for one will fit it into one of my ongoing projects, asap.
>
> *who knows, 7-11 % from the fogger, + 5-15 % from the magnets, plus a bit
of
> meth in the gasoline, and maybe an h generator, and we might be looking at
> some significant savings here. i've got the fogger down pat, and am
halfway
> there with the h generator, so all i need to do now is mix some meth into
> the gas, grab some magnets and run...
>
> *life is only bearable when dreams egg you on, methinks...
>
> A DAILY GAME
>
> My death and I play daily games,
> whence she reminds me of herself,
> whilst I keep focused on my elusive quest,
> paying but scant attention to her ways,
> too busy with dreams I need to claim,
> before time comes for our embrace.
>
> *thanks for helping me enlarge the scope of my dreaming, warren.
>
> *and pls excuse myn OT jingle...
>
>> From: "Paul Gobert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> Subject: Re: water + alky / dino-svo + alky / auto tranny + svo / biod +
>
> svo
>
>> Apace Technology in Australia developed an emulsifier that enabled the
>> mixing of ethanol with dinodiesel. They were active some 20 years ago but
>> don't know where it went from there.
>
>
> *thanks for the info paul. i have it that benzene will allow a certain
> ammount of water contaminated ethanol to mix with gasoline, but have yet
to
> try this. what about meth/dyno ? the asuncion, paraguay municipality at
one
> point was going to make 10% anhidrous (absolute) ethanol content mandatory
> in dyno used in buses and such, but the project flopped due to truck/bus
> owner's resistance. maybe the old rubber controversy...??
>
> (bobeda, any chance you could stop lurking and explain the eth/dyno
program
> in asuncion ?)(:-D)
>
>> From: Jeremy Shuey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> Subject: Re: Fwd: Saving Gasoline and Money
>
>> I 

[biofuel] RE: filter

[Crabb, David]

why do you need 2 or 3 filters if one filter blocks anything > 1 micron?

==

PECIAL  INTRODUCTORY   OFFER
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Definitely less than 1/2 the price of our cheapest competitor even
before discount.

For a limited time we are offering  MIL-MAC 4M By-pass Filters at
the following prices :BE  QUICK.This is a limited offer.

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 G.S.T.   59-38   PAY   53-44
TOTAL$534-38   PAY$480-94

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Re: [biofuel] bypass filters

[Dr. Gary Nelson]

Years ago I used Frantz bypass filters on several cars and never changed the
dino oil. Every 1000 to 1500 miles
I changed the toilet paper filter and added a quart of oil. The oil always
looked like it just came out of the can.
No objective data as to added longetivity of engines as the cars we sold off
before engine problems might have surfaced.
However, it makes sense that haveing no visible crud in the oil is goodness.

At some point, Frantz seemed to disappear and I assumed they were out of
business.



dhargis1 wrote:

> David,
>
> Most of what I have read in the past about bypass filters concerned their
> utilization with synthetic motor oils. This is to aid in the prolonged
> change intervals seen with these oils. Now, if I am reading you correctly,
> you are advising that the use of the bypass filters with regular dino engine
> oil is also advantageous. Is that correct? or should I also plan on
> switching to a synthetic engine oil if I add one of these bypass filters to
> my truck? The owners manual of my NA Navistar Diesel, 6.5 liter, in my 1987
> F-350 recommends changing the engine oil every 7500 miles. Could you give me
> some idea as to how long I may expect to go between oil changes in the
> future if I add the bypass filter?
>
> Derek W. Hargis
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> To unsubscribe, send an email to:
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>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--

Dr. Gary A. Nelson
Zynrgy Group Inc
20708 Deerpath Road
Barrington, IL 60010-3787
USA
+1.847.304.
+1.847.304.1929 fax
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



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[biofuel] Re: Fwd: Saving Gasoline and Money

[k5farms]

Added to the water supply to dairy cattle, that and O2 added to the 
water increases milk production 5-10%. 

Nikken has PI water, and some neat seat covers! and a huge 
marketplace already in place! My mother is a distributor for Nikken 
and loves to talk about your health: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 








--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Warren Rekow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Steve replied:
> >Um, uh, guys? what have you all been smoking? magnets on gas lines 
(and
> >water lines) is right up there with ceramic laundry disks. 
really
> 
> Ha! Hi Steve! ;-)
> Well... so have you actually tried it, as described in the article? 
I 
> have viewed this in the same way you just expressed. But, James 
DeMeo 
> is a pretty sharp fellow. He says it actually works for him. Jeremy 
> just replied that it has worked for him for several years on his 
> water lines. I sure don't have all the right answers, and life has 
> brought many a surprise. Tell you what, let's both try it. Maybe we 
> learn something new and useful in spite of our 'knowledge'.
> -- 
> ...Warren Rekow


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Re: [biofuel] 100LL AV Gas Replacement

[JOSEPH . MARTELLE]

I just finished reading my current issue of Sport Aviation and there was an
interesting article on finding alternatives to 100 octane low lead aviation fuel
(which will shortly see its demise). The letter was written by Dennis Helder
PhD, EE Dept , South Dakota State University , Brookings SD  57007.
 Here is what he had to say: "There is work being done to develop alternate
fuels that can truly replace 100LL with respect to octane requirements.
 "One of the most promising of these fuels is called Aviation Grade Ethanol
85. It is a blend of approximately 85 percent ethanol, 14 percent hydrocarbons,
and 1 percent biodiesel. This fuel exceeds 100 LL in anti-detonation performance
and generates equivalent horsepower as 100LL, but results in cleaner engine
operation and cooler cylinder head temperatures. The hydrocarbon fraction is
used to control vapor pressure so that engine starting is similar to 100LL, and
the biodoesel protects the engine during inactivity.
 "Fuel consumption is slightly higher (10 to 15 percent). The fuel has been
STCed for Cessna 180s and 182s and is currently available for for under $2 (US)
per gallon. Feel free to contact me if you have questions."

 I just felt this was interesting, and thought I'd share it with everyone. I
think this is the same university that is experimenting with B20 in the
starboard engine (turbo prop) of a twin Beech.
  Joe



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[biofuel] BIODIESEL AT THE PUMP

[Keith Addison]

One down, 899 to go to draw level with Germany. But, good news, shape 
of things to come.

>BIODIESEL AT THE PUMP
>U.S. Department of Energy, San Francisco Board of Supervisors and California
>Transportation Office Usher in Nation's First Biodiesel Station
>
>San Francisco, CA, May 23, 2001 - At the same time as our proposed Energy
>Policy calls America to increase its use of renewable and alternative
>energy, one Bay Area Fuel Company has taken action to offer a practical,
>renewable biofuel to the San Francisco community.  Olympian Inc.
>(www.oly.com) has partnered with World Energy Alternatives
>(www.worldenergy.net), America's largest biodiesel provider, to offer
>biodiesel at the pump.
>
>On Wednesday May 23rd at 10:30 AM, World Energy and Olympian will host a
>ribbon-cutting ceremony at 2690 3rd Street in San Francisco to open the
>nation's first publicly accessible biodiesel fueling station.  To underscore
>the event, K. Shaine Tyson, the U.S. Department of Energy's premier expert
>on biodiesel, will speak about the history and characteristics of biodiesel,
>followed by San Francisco Supervisor Gavin Newsome and Peter Ward of the
>California Transportation Office, who will each speak on how biodiesel and
>other renewable fuels will benefit the City of San Francisco and the State
>of California.  Bluewater Network Executive Director Russell Long will also
>speak about how renewable fuels like biodiesel are a practical and immediate
>way to combat global warming and other environmental concerns.  To promote
>awareness for the fuel's operational qualities, Bluewater Network staff
>wearing mechanic's coveralls will pump free biodiesel, up to five gallons
>per vehicle, from 10:15 AM to 11:00 AM.  The event will also include
>numerous demonstrations in various vehicle applications.
>
>The nation's recent energy dilemma, together with the growing international
>concern over global warming and negative health effects from fossil fuels
>has created an urgent need for practical, low-cost alternative fuel.
>Biodiesel is a domestically produced diesel fuel substitute that fulfills
>these environmental and energy security needs without sacrificing operating
>performance.  Produced from resources such as soybeans or recycled cooking
>oil from restaurants, the fuel can be used in any standard, unmodified
>diesel engine either in pure form (B100) or blended at any proportion with
>petroleum diesel.  Biodiesel therefore increases fuel supplies for diesels
>without requiring new oil exploration in wilderness or offshore areas.
>
> >From a health standpoint, biodiesel has passed Tier I and Tier II Health
>Effects testing required by the Clean Air Act and significantly reduces EPA
>targeted emissions such as carbon monoxide, unburned hydrocarbons and
>particulate matter.  Moreover, research conducted at the University of
>California-Davis demonstrates that the cancer-causing potential of biodiesel
>particulate matter is 80% less than that of standard No. 1 or No. 2 diesel
>fuel.  Pure biodiesel is completely biodegradable and non-toxic to plants,
>animals and humans, and it reduces greenhouse gas emissions by upwards of
>75%, making it the single most effective greenhouse gas reduction technology
>for existing diesel engines.
>
>Olympian decided to offer the fuel because of its positive effects on human
>health and the environment, and it feels that there are numerous
>opportunities for commercial sales, including Bay Area bus companies and
>sanitation haulers.  But the company sees even greater potential to serve
>individuals who wish to reduce harmful emissions from their diesel cars,
>trucks, vans and SUVs.  "As an oil company operating in today's economy, we
>believe offering biodiesel not only improves our corporate image, but also
>increases our competitive advantage," explained Tom Burke, Olympian's
>Division Manager of Cardlock and Mobile Fueling.  "When renewable fuel
>becomes the rule and not the exception, we will already be a recognized
>provider."
>
>Biodiesel has seen significant growth in public and private fleets
>nationwide, including Florida Power and Light, the Ohio Department of
>Transportation, the Deer Valley School District in Arizona and the United
>States Air Force.  Locally, SFO recently switched the airport shuttle fleet
>over to biodiesel and the environmentalist organization Bluewater Network
>(www.bluewaternetwork.org) has been working to put biodiesel in the Bay
>Area's commuter ferries.  Fleet owners who would like more information about
>purchasing should contact Olympian directly at 800.899.2376 or World Energy
>at 650.712.9688.  Interested individuals should email Cytoculture
>(www.cytoculture.com) at [EMAIL PROTECTED] or call 510.233.0102 for
>information about establishing a biodiesel account.  For biodiesel shipping
>information in all other areas of the country, please visit the World Energy
>website at www.worldenergy.net.
>
>About World Energy - By maintaining multiple producti

[biofuel] By-pass Filters vs Factory Full Flow Filters

[Crabb, David]

 By-pass Filters  vs  Factory Full Flow Filters

 I think that Fram has a Super whammy guard filter out that has some sort of
by-pass filtering?


its like 10 bux




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RE: [biofuel] Conquest of the Land

[Keith Addison]

Hi Kirk

>Erosion is very visible.

Yet still much neglected after nearly a century of crisis calls.

>Perhaps more sinister is the invisible destruction of land. Trace element
>deficiency is every bit as deadly.

FAO Soils Bulletin 48, Rome 1982, "Micronutrients and the Nutrient 
Status of Soils: A Global Study", 450 p, charted a disaster in the 
making and called for urgent action.

 From a 1999 report: "What one recent study called 'the unexpected 
importance of micro-element deficiencies and toxicities' is now 
impacting on the most productive Green Revolution soils."

Anyway, the two types of erosion (among many others) are part and 
parcel of the same phenomenon, with many of the same causes.

>Read "Nutrition and Physical
>Degeneration" by Weston Price and the animal study re same "Pottengers Cats"
>by Frances Pottenger MD. Link to PP Foundation at very bottom of
>http://www.drduh.com
>You will not view people the same after reading these 2 books.

Nor yourself. Nor the world. Reading Price especially is a real 
life-changer (and improver). Please see Nutrition and Physical 
Degeneration by Weston A. Price, 1939:
http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library.html#price

Also: The Darwin of nutrition - Weston A. Price
http://journeytoforever.org/text_price.html

These pages link to extended reviews of Price's work, including long 
excerpts and many photographs, as well as to some of Price's other 
writing. A much better place to visit than the Price-Pottenger 
Nutrition Foundation (which is not what it was) is Sally Fallon's 
informative website at the Weston A. Price Foundation:
http://www.westonaprice.org/

>When you grow a crop and transport it away you remove things from the soil.
>You in essence "mine" it.

Not necessarily so. Husbandry can and should achieve an increase in 
soil fertility levels in spite of what is removed in crops and 
livestock. This is very well-established and is the basis of all the 
forms of sustainable agriculture, and of course of the traditional 
agricultural systems. Industrialised farming - what's somehow come to 
be misnomered "conventional" farming - is indeed soil mining.

Good grassland management is a good example of what husbandry (and 
biology) can achieve. A good grass mixture includes not only grass 
but also legumes and deep-rooting herbs (aka weeds), maybe 25 
different species. The grass ley (lasting one to four years or more, 
depending on the system) is rotated over a farm and provides all the 
fertility required for as many as five or six subsequent crops. In 
one well-managed set of tests, a ley was planted and then divided in 
half. On one half the grass was simply mown and left, nothing was 
removed. The other half was heavily grazed, and a lot of beef and 
dairy products were removed. Then both halves were ploughed up and 
planted to the same crop, with no further treatment. The heavily 
grazed half far outproduced the mown-and-left half. No magic 
involved. The specialised gut of the cow, the effect of the urine and 
the manure on the plants and the soil life, the careful timing to 
synchronise grazing with plant growth and the decay of the wastes, 
all more than make up for the growth of the cow and its milk 
production. You end up with beef, milk, butter, hay, and a foot-deep 
layer of superior compost covering the entire field. Also grass roots 
are special: a rye plant can have 23 miles of roots; a rye-grass 
plant can have 320 miles of roots - specially made to work with the 
urine and the manure and the soil bugs to build up fertility. There 
are such systems for all aspects of farming. When you start to 
integrate them and fine-tune them to the land, crops, climate, local 
conditions and the market, you can end up with something very fine, 
and with a very low level of off-farm inputs, approaching zero. So 
why isn't everybody doing it? Where's the profit for the agribusiness 
giants? But many are doing it, more and more all the time.

Sorry to waffle on about it, but this has great application to 
biomass production and biofuels crops.

Best wishes

Keith Addison
Journey to Forever
Handmade Projects
Tokyo
http://journeytoforever.org/

 
>Kirk
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 1:20 AM
>To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [biofuel] Conquest of the Land
>
>
>Tom Reed of the Biomass Energy Foundation likes this book so much he
>wants to give it away free to everybody involved in bioenergy. Good
>idea! Anyway, no need to give it away, it's online.
>
>Conquest of the Land Through 7,000 Years
>By W.C. Lowdermilk. 1953.  USDA Agriculture Information Bulletin No. 99. 30
>p.
>http://soilandhealth.org/01aglibrary/010119lowdermilk.usda/cls.html
>
>http://www.nhq.nrcs.usda.gov/BCS/agecol/conquest.pdf   [PDF]
>




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[EM

Re: [biofuel] magnetic savings / alky + dyno / hard water /

[David Sanz]

I know, but testing with magnets is fast and cheap. Why not try?

Regards

David

Lo sŽ, pero probar con imanes es barato y r‡pido. ÀPorquŽ no probar?

Saludos

David

steve spence wrote:

> apparently, there is no science to back up the claims of the promoters of
> this "technology".
> 
> Steve Spence
> Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter:
> http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm
> 
> Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.com
> Palm Pilot Pages - http://www.webconx.com/palm
> X10 Home Automation - http://www.webconx.com/x10
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> (212) 894-3704 x3154 - voicemail/fax
> We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors,
> we borrow it from our children.
> --
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: "David Sanz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 9:58 AM
> Subject: Re: [biofuel] magnetic savings / alky + dyno / hard water /
> 
> 
> 
> Magnets?
> I use permanent magnets on fuel lines and air intake in my diesel,
> but... aparently nothing happens.
> It's only my opinion.
> 
> David
> 
> Imanes?
> Uso imanes permanentes en las l’neas de fuel y en la toma de admisi—n de
> mi diesel, pero... aparentemente no mejora nada.
> Es s—lo mi opini—n.
> 
> David
> 
> Dick Carlstein wrote:
> 
>>> From: Warren Rekow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>> Subject: Fwd: Saving Gasoline and Money
>>> 
>>> I've heard stories about putting magnets on gas lines to improve fuel
>>> mileage for years Dick, perhaps magnets attached to the tubing might
>> 
>> increase the
>> 
>>> effectiveness of foggers?
>> 
>> 
>> *good post warren !! this magnet thing either works, or else  is just more
>> urban legend. both ways, it shouldn't be hard to check out, like checking
>> out novak's baby was easy.
>> 
>> *will come up with a test routine, and post when i have my numbers in,
> 
> just
> 
>> like the fogger.
>> 
>> *some questions  into the article :
>> 
>>> ...Later, I discovered these devices contained simple magnets with
>>> the south-seeking poles directed inward
>> 
>> 
>> *besides floating one of them, and then comparing, is there some other
>> method for determining a magnet's south that i am unaware of, or have
>> forgotten ?
>> 
>>> The magnets used are fairly strong rare-earth strontium ferroxide ceramic
>>> magnets which will pinch your fingers (Ouch!) if you are not careful, and
>>> four of them are enough for a single fuel-line for one car.  Any similar
>>> strong magnet will work
>> 
>> 
>> *such as speaker magnets ? how do i determine if a magnet is strong enough
>> for this application ?
>> 
>>> Like the orgone accumulator, it is too simple for most people to
>> 
>> believe...
>> 
>> *i know for a fact that something very similar to an 'orgone accumulator'
>> works just fine, and does generate fuel savings at a reasonable cost. this
>> lends credibility to this gent's thesis.
>> 
>>> You can get the magnets at any Radio Shack...
>> 
>> 
>> *it would sure help to have a rs cat # or something more specific to go
> 
> on.
> 
>> any chance of obtaining this ? rs is such a comfy one-stop place for all
> 
> of
> 
>> these odds and ends, i find...
>> 
>>> ...Natural Energy Works has been selling
>>> these simple strong magnets for years, available in sets of 10 for $10
>> 
>> plus
>> 
>>> $7 USA-Canada shipping, along with a little book on the subject for
>> 
>> $12.95.
>> 
>>> The same effect works also on your propane or natural gas stove or
>> 
>> furnace,
>> 
>>> when magnets are added to the feed lines just before the burners or
>>> combustion chambers.
>> 
>> 
>> *what shape and size are the magnets n.e.w. sells ? 12.95 for a booklet on
>> why and how it works sounds a bit steep to me. thoughts on this ?
>> 
>> *notice closeness to entry point is invariably stressed. is 'the closer
> 
> the
> 
>> better', or will 'close enough' do ?
>> 
>> *nice project for anybody willing to keep statistically significant tabs
> 
> on
> 
>> fuel use. i for one will fit it into one of my ongoing projects, asap.
>> 
>> *who knows, 7-11 % from the fogger, + 5-15 % from the magnets, plus a bit
> 
> of
> 
>> meth in the gasoline, and maybe an h generator, and we might be looking at
>> some significant savings here. i've got the fogger down pat, and am
> 
> halfway
> 
>> there with the h generator, so all i need to do now is mix some meth into
>> the gas, grab some magnets and run...
>> 
>> *life is only bearable when dreams egg you on, methinks...
>> 
>> A DAILY GAME
>> 
>> My death and I play daily games,
>> whence she reminds me of herself,
>> whilst I keep focused on my elusive quest,
>> paying but scant attention to her ways,
>> too busy with dreams I need to claim,
>> before time comes for our embrace.
>> 
>> *thanks for helping me enlarge the scope of my dreaming, warren.
>> 
>> *and pls excuse myn OT jingle...
>> 
>>> From: "Paul Gobert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>> Subject: Re: water + alky / dino-svo + alky / auto tranny + svo / biod +
>> 
>> svo
>> 
>>> Apace Technology in Australia developed 

RE: [biofuel] Digest Number 445

[Crabb, David]

anyone know about how much $ you can get per 100 gal out of the glycerin
you get from of the biodiesel process ?

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More snipping - was Re: [biofuel] magnetic savings etc

[Keith Addison]

Hi Dick



>*last but not least, how can we incentivate  amongst honorable
>list members ?

Er, "incentivate"? Please go straight to jail, do not pass Go, do not 
collect $200. :-)

We incentivate it by means of a monthly reminder to fortify the 
regular complaints, but it, um, doesn't work too well because we 
usually forget to post it. :-(

>it is a drag to read a two line answer, or comment, and find
>all of the original thread(s) attached, requiring tedious, wasteful
>scrolling. here we're discussing fuel alternatives, and savings, and energy
>in general, and we're unable to be thrifty and edit our answers. time spent
>scrolling is a waste of everybody's time, and i don't think we have the
>right to subject people to this. so what say we do a bit of  and
>save everybody some time ? huh ?
>cheers, dick.

Yes please - honorable list members please take note. Also, on 
changing the subject of a thread, please change the subject header 
too, as above.

Many thanks

Keith Addison
Journey to Forever
Handmade Projects
Tokyo
http://journeytoforever.org/

Biofuel list owner


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