Re: [biofuel] Fahrenheit 9/11
Yeah, it is a little slanted isn't it? I for one do not care to see the country made over into the image that Michael Moore would like to see. I have seen pictures of that punk from his high school days reminds me too much of the hell raisers and agitators that are largely responsible for doing away with a number of the traditions and morals of this country. He still looks it, just older and uglier and fatter. Cliff Jobe Subject: Fahrenheit 9/11 Went to see this last night with my son (age 14). He thought it was awesome. Unfortunately, I could not interest any of the women in the party (my wife and sisters) in seeing it, so they went to something fluffy (multi-screen cinema). For those that don't know, this is a Michael Moore movie that touches on the American political scene since the last federal election, including the Florida voting fiasco, and the media-supported disinformation campaign that led up to the invasion of Iraq. While it covers some of the same material as the book Dude, Where's My Country, there is also a major difference in approach and material covered. Not much that will come as news to those of us on the biofuels list. Still, seeing the actual footage of Bush-ites mouthing the words, or the egg- pelting of the Bush II inauguration parade and the Congress (Senators), with Al Gore presiding, repudiating the democratic rights of American voters all resonated for me in a way it did not in print. Should be required viewing for all U.S. voters prior to November 2004. Darryl McMahon -- Darryl McMahon http://www.econogics.com/ It's your planet. If you won't look after it, who will? Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Jet Fuel
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Greg Harbican [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How did you find out about this? Greg H. A good friend of mine is an airplane mechanic in a small airport. They mostly work on small planes, but the commercial jets get filled by their company. While filling, ther's usually a gallon or more of overflow left in the fill hose that has to be emptied. It adds up. My buddy has been running on the airplane fuel in his Toyota for years. He's had to replace the head gasket 3 times, but has almost 400,000 on it running airplane fuel! (No, his truck wouldn't pass CA emissions). Unfortunately it's a 55 min drive for me to get it weekly,but I think it'd be worth it. Thanks for your replies! I might be able to purchase bioD locally, anyone know what a good mix would be? 50/50? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Fahrenheit 9/11
Message: 1 Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2004 10:10:29 -0400 From: Darryl McMahon [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Fahrenheit 9/11 Went to see this last night with my son (age 14). He thought it was awesome. Unfortunately, I could not interest any of the women in the party (my wife and sisters) in seeing it, so they went to something fluffy (multi-screen cinema). For those that don't know, this is a Michael Moore movie that touches on the American political scene since the last federal election, including the Florida voting fiasco, and the media-supported disinformation campaign that led up to the invasion of Iraq. While it covers some of the same material as the book Dude, Where's My Country, there is also a major difference in approach and material covered. Not much that will come as news to those of us on the biofuels list. Still, seeing the actual footage of Bush-ites mouthing the words, or the egg- pelting of the Bush II inauguration parade and the Congress (Senators), with Al Gore presiding, repudiating the democratic rights of American voters all resonated for me in a way it did not in print. Should be required viewing for all U.S. voters prior to November 2004. Darryl McMahon I agree, great movie. Wonderful example of the David Duke Anti-war crowd and how they lie, half-lie, and otherwise distort the truth. It should win some sort fo award for best example of the big lie technique, where Moore states at the beginning that all independent investigations of the Florida show that Gore won. The truth is the opposite, they all show that Gore lost. But. what would you expect from a Social Democrat like Moore, just another variation on the National Socialist Workers Party line and a parroting of their leader. See also: http://fahrenheit_fact.blogspot.com/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Re: SVO/biodiesel blend /WVO the best way
I've got some information about fuel blends in the report at www.vegburner.co.uk/blends.htm Darren Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Re: SVO/biodiesel blend /WVO the best way
I have got some information about blends in the report at www.vegburner.co.uk/blends.htm Darren Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Jet Fuel
Hi, Just a thought, make sure it is aviation turbine fuel (avtur) not avgas, avgas is aviation 110 octane petrol (dont want to state the obvious but :-)) turbine fuel generaly is diesel/kerosine with a very low cloud point, I dont know about the lubricating properties, if it is low then biodiesel woud be good to add those properties I guess. P.S i didnt know jet fuel was plant based biofuel LOL :-) regards Nick --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Greg Harbican [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How did you find out about this? Greg H. - Original Message - From: towcloud9 To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2004 09:21 Subject: [biofuel] Jet Fuel Hi all, A local airport often has wast jet fuel. My understanding is that with a lubricity additive, jet fuel can be used as diesel. I can get 30-40 gallons a week. Anyone doing this? Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT -- Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Fahrenheit 9/11
Published on Sunday, June 27, 2004 by Reuters Red-Hot 'Fahrenheit 9/11' a No. 1 Hit Across America by Dean Goodman LOS ANGELES - Bush-bashing became the nation's favorite spectator sport over the weekend as Michael Moore's red-hot documentary Fahrenheit 9/11 earned more in its first three days of release across North America than his previous record-breaking movie did in its entire run. According to studio estimates issued on Sunday, Fahrenheit 9/11, in which Moore takes aim at President Bush, and the war in Iraq, opened at No. 1 after selling about $21.8 million worth of tickets in the United States and Canada since June 25. All told, the movie's total stands at $21.96 million, because it got a head-start on Wednesday in two Manhattan theaters to help build more media buzz before expanding to a relatively modest 868 theaters two days later. (By contrast, most of the other movies in the top five were playing in more than 2,500 theaters each.) CONTINUED... http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0627-01.htm Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Palm oil...
Hello Jonathan Hey everyone, I'm very new to the group, the idea of using something other than fossil fuels, the whole thing. Therefore I'm more than sure I'll sound dumb to most of you if not all! Not at all, everyone has to start somewhere. The only dumb question is the one you don't ask. However, I have to do something! I don't like the price of gas and did not know I had other choices for fuel. I spend some of my time in West Africa. Palm oil is something I can get a lot of. Is it true that ANY oil can be used to make Biofuel without doing some damage to a Diesel Engine? Avoid the drying oils -see Iodine Values: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_yield.html#iodine Certainly you can use palm oil to make biodiesel. You might need more methanol - see How much methanol?, scroll down to Excess: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_meth.html Try some small test batches first - start here: Where do I start? http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#start Palm oil has a high Cloud Point, in other words it goes solid at about 14 deg C (57 deg F), and biodiesel made from it also has a high Cloud Point, no use for cold countries, fine for West Africa. Crude palm oil though, the raw product as it's produced before refining, is another matter. CPO can have very high Free Fatty Acid levels and is difficult to process. It can be done though - do a search at the Biofuels-biz archives for high FFA oils or Allen: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuels-biz/ Hope this helps. Best wishes Keith Trying to learn something new, Jonathan Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Sacred Animal and biofuel group
Hello Balaji Thanks much for the tale of Lakshmi, in spite of the sad ending. If our cities were more sensible sorts of places maybe there'd have been room for her too, and need. According to FAO figures in 1993 (which I wish I could get an update on) more than 15% of the world's food supply is produced by city farms, with virtually no inputs other than wastes (thus vastly decreasing city sanitation problems as well), and with the use of no farming land at all. Backyard chickens and pigs play a big role in that. And the local authorities usually no role at all or they actively harass the city farmers. If we greened our cities properly, which would have huge beneficial effects on everything about them, especially their energy consumption, there'd be plenty to feed cows on - apart from the green stuff itself, a lot of that greenery could easily comprise various biofuels crops, with both mash and seedcake left for livestock feed. Makes the tiny Irish Dexter catle an even more interesting proposition. http://journeytoforever.org/farm_animal.html Farming with animals I wonder if the reverence for cows you describe might not be more widespread. Perhaps a lot of traditional peoples feel the same, even if they haven't formalised it. This next is from something I wrote about the vilage elder, also my landlord and my friend, in an old and very traditional Chinese village I once lived in: Being the oldest man in the village is part of an ancient myth, that all peoples seem to share. He is a repository of village lore and tradition, a living link with the past, and only death can challenge his position. As there will always be a successor, he is also a link with the future, a talisman of permanence and continuity. The only real requirement is that he should stay alive until he dies. For an old man this is demanding enough. Fung Pak always did his duty, and he was very much alive. He had once gashed his hand while tending a cow, and had to walk six miles to the clinic to have it seen to. The clinic doctor, fearing infection, wanted to send him to hospital in the city, but he refused to go. I must get back to my cow, he said. Which is more important, the cow or your life? the doctor asked him. The cow, he replied without hesitation. I'm not so important, I'm not the only man in my family. But the cow is my responsibility. The cow was a gift from heaven, he said. The baffled doctor stitched his hand and let him go back to his cow. Hello Gustl, - Original Message - From: Gustl Steiner-Zehender [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: pan ruti biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, June 26, 2004 8:18 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Sacred Animal and biofuel group Hallo, As soon as I saw this mail from Pan Ruti I knew that I had been misunderstood and my first thought was to privately explain what I meant by the expression sacred cows and apologize for any misunderstanding. I did this immediately but upon reflection I think it is not enough to do this privately. English is the primary language of this list but it is probably not the first language of the majority of subscribers. English idioms may be commonly understood by those of us with English as their first language but it can and often is confusing, insulting and offensive to others whose familiarity with the language is not intimate. This can and has led to not only misunderstandings but hard feelings as well. snip You are very generous in apologising for any unintended misunderstanding. Hindus are very touchy about cows, whom they consider sacred, the repository of all our 330 Million gods, after the divine cow Kamadhenu, the mother of all cows. My father used to tell me of how our own cow Lakshmi was treated as a senior family member in our village. She was provided the choicest cattlefeed and sweets and during religious ceremonies, she was bathed, painted with vermillion, bedecked, and offered the first pooja. Only then were the other gods addressed. He also told a heart warming tale of how Lakshmi and her son Ramudu followed them all the way out of town with tears streaking her eyes the day they moved to the city. (I am not sure whether cows can cry, though when their soulful eyes brim over you get the distinct impression of felt emotion.) This practice of bovine reverence continues in our rural areas even today, where we celebrate a three day harvest fertility festival during January involving the cow and the ox. In our puranas or holy texts, Kamadhenu being the veritable cornucopia that she is, has been the cause of much coveting and heartburn among the lesser gods. With rapid urbanisation and the attendant pressure on space, domestic cows can no longer be maintained. Pannerselavam is too sensitive and need not have taken the distressed umbrage he did over such a casual idiom. Now that you have explained it, he should understand that you meant no offence. Regards,
Re: [biofuel] Fahrenheit 9/11
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah, it is a little slanted isn't it? I for one do not care to see the country made over into the image that Michael Moore would like to see. I have seen pictures of that punk from his high school days reminds me too much of the hell raisers and agitators that are largely responsible for doing away with a number of the traditions and morals of this country. He still looks it, just older and uglier and fatter. Cliff Jobe You're right, it would be better if there were never any punks that wanted to change our traditions or morals. And you're right, he's ugly and fat so that makes all the difference! Thank you for making an excellent contribution to the biofuel list. -- -- Martin Klingensmith http://infoarchive.net/ http://nnytech.net/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Fahrenheit 9/11
FAHRENHEIT FRENZY According to exit surveys in about 15 cities, 91 percent of respondents gave the film an excellent rating, while 93 percent said they would definitely recommend the film -- tallies that Ortenberg said were the best he had ever seen. The core audience was aged between 25 and 34, he added. Published on Sunday, June 27, 2004 by Reuters Red-Hot 'Fahrenheit 9/11' a No. 1 Hit Across America by Dean Goodman CONTINUED... http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0627-01.htm Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Centrifugal seperator for biodiesel
For the large commercial operations in Europe, Westfalia separators have been specifically designed for Biodiesel. They are 'Flame Proofed (as there is methanol present) and can separate methanol/biodiesel/crude glycerol in 1 pass, PLUS wash wash in water and dry the biodiesel in 2 more passes. The problem is the cost. They start at £60,000.00 new, for a 5000 litre an hour machine. Even second-hand, a reconditioned machine is £20-£30k. The self-cleaning ones are even more money. I am building a Waste Veg Oil to biodiesel plant in the UK and am trying to find a cheaper alternative. I'll post any findings here. Regards Mike Taylor --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, not yourbuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Any news abaut the centrifugal separator?? Why there is not pics in this group Pics will be very useful to compare methods on how to make biodiesels Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Fahrenheit 9/11
Yeah, it is a little slanted isn't it? I for one do not care to see the country made over into the image that Michael Moore would like to see. I have seen pictures of that punk from his high school days reminds me too much of the hell raisers and agitators that are largely responsible for doing away with a number of the traditions and morals of this country. He still looks it, just older and uglier and fatter. Cliff Jobe And the horrific erosion of just about everything worth half a damn wrought by the people you apparently support has somehow escaped your notice? Who poked your other eye out? Keith Subject: Fahrenheit 9/11 Went to see this last night with my son (age 14). He thought it was awesome. Unfortunately, I could not interest any of the women in the party (my wife and sisters) in seeing it, so they went to something fluffy (multi-screen cinema). For those that don't know, this is a Michael Moore movie that touches on the American political scene since the last federal election, including the Florida voting fiasco, and the media-supported disinformation campaign that led up to the invasion of Iraq. While it covers some of the same material as the book Dude, Where's My Country, there is also a major difference in approach and material covered. Not much that will come as news to those of us on the biofuels list. Still, seeing the actual footage of Bush-ites mouthing the words, or the egg- pelting of the Bush II inauguration parade and the Congress (Senators), with Al Gore presiding, repudiating the democratic rights of American voters all resonated for me in a way it did not in print. Should be required viewing for all U.S. voters prior to November 2004. Darryl McMahon -- Darryl McMahon http://www.econogics.com/ It's your planet. If you won't look after it, who will? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Fahrenheit 9/11
Backwoods_Bob wrote: Message: 1 Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2004 10:10:29 -0400 From: Darryl McMahon [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Fahrenheit 9/11 Went to see this last night with my son (age 14). He thought it was awesome. Unfortunately, I could not interest any of the women in the party (my wife and sisters) in seeing it, so they went to something fluffy (multi-screen cinema). For those that don't know, this is a Michael Moore movie that touches on the American political scene since the last federal election, including the Florida voting fiasco, and the media-supported disinformation campaign that led up to the invasion of Iraq. While it covers some of the same material as the book Dude, Where's My Country, there is also a major difference in approach and material covered. Not much that will come as news to those of us on the biofuels list. Still, seeing the actual footage of Bush-ites mouthing the words, or the egg- pelting of the Bush II inauguration parade and the Congress (Senators), with Al Gore presiding, repudiating the democratic rights of American voters all resonated for me in a way it did not in print. Should be required viewing for all U.S. voters prior to November 2004. Darryl McMahon I agree, great movie. Have you seen it? Wonderful example of the David Duke Anti-war crowd and how they lie, half-lie, and otherwise distort the truth. It should win some sort fo award for best example of the big lie technique, No no no, you've got it all wrong - that's the one you believe, and Moore didn't tell it, his movie's about those who did, and are. where Moore states at the beginning that all independent investigations of the Florida show that Gore won. The truth is the opposite, they all show that Gore lost. Now why should we have to go through all this all over again? Tell you what, why don't you just go and try to convince the list archives, I'm sure it'll lend you a willing and unbiased ear and it won't mind the wasted nanoseconds. The url's at the end of every message you receive. DON'T try to continue this discussion until you've checked the archives. (Hint: search for Palast.) Something else, here on this list and in the world at large, if you want to counter something that a great many people hold to be true you need to offer a little more than just your unsupported opinion for it to have a chance of gaining any credibility. It's up to you to prove it, not up to us to disprove it. You've been here for two years, you sure haven't paid a lot of attention if you don't know that, and if you haven't seen the several previous discussions on Florida. That's your problem, not ours. Go and do your homework. But. what would you expect from a Social Democrat like Moore, just another variation on the National Socialist Workers Party line and a parroting of their leader. :-) Well now, there's the Socialist Workers Party, the Socialist Party USA, the National Socialist Japanese Workers Party, the Iran National-Socialist Workers Party and so on, but what exactly is the National Socialist Workers Party? I suspect that according to Godwin's Law you just lost. See also: http://fahrenheit_fact.blogspot.com/ Sigh... Okay, your technique of labelling and dismissal, but with some substance behind it - the New York Post? Owned and operated by that great champion of democracy and truth Rupert Murdoch? Along with just about every other medium you view as gospel, I'll be bound. I suppose you think that other Post columnist, Steven Milloy, knows all about science and what's junk and what's not, no fear or favour? Murdoch and the New York Post are major culprits in what Darryl correctly termed the media-supported disinformation campaign that led up to the invasion of Iraq. Keith Addison List owner Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] question
I think you can still use it for BD conversion. The oil I pick up from some Chinese restaurants is also months old (with some smell) and I even use it for WVO-driving without any problem... Yves. At 01:39 PM 6/26/2004 +0200, you wrote: Hi all, Today some chinees man from a restaurant brought me 1000 liters of WVO. It smells like hell, because it has been in a container for months. Can I still make BD from this stuff ? Met dank en vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole Netherlands The information contained in this message (including attachments) is confidential, and is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you have received this message in error please delete it and notify the originator immediately. The unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden. We will not be liable for direct, special, indirect or consequential damages arising from alteration of the contents of this message by a third party or in case of electronic communications as a result of any virus being passed on. - Original Message - From: nick_75au [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, June 25, 2004 2:11 PM Subject: [biofuel] Centrifugal seperator for biodiesel Hi, I posted to the 100% ethanol post about centrifugal processor not being able to seperate water from ethanol, yahoo started bouncing my messages for the second time in as many weeks so i never saw the replys, general opinion is a seperator wont work. Anyway I want to throw some thoughts out into the breeze about using the seperator to remove the glycyrine and FFA out of the reacted biodiesel. I worked in the navy where we used 4 small seperators, two for removing contaminants and water out of main engine sump oil and the other two removed water and solids from diesel fuel. As we know to seperate the glycerine and FFA out of the fuel once it is reacted it is left to settle overnight and the FFA and glycerine settles to the bottom by gravity. Well a centrifugal seperator ( if I can I will post a picture in the photos section showing a seperator cross section) achieves the same result by rotating a stack of conical disks at around 10,000 rpm. the heavy component is forced to the outside and is discharged to a port, the fuel passes up the center and is discharged to a second port. any dirt is traped on the disks and in the bowl. The advantage of this is that it happens in minutes not hours or days. The seperators I delt with were the smallest model and they could process 100 litres per minute. Another feature that is interesting is that for the centrifuges water could actualy be introduced into the oil or diesel to assist in seperating water and contaminant from the product, I bring this up because It may be a way to wash the biodiesel at the same time as removing the glycerine however I think this may not work as all the procceses on the JTF site wash after seperating, Have I missed someting regarding this?. So now I have given this wonderful info and you all rush out to find seperators then find they are too big, too costly and difficult to find unless you work in a shipyard, I did some looking around and I believe that the humble cream seperator might just do the trick, a perfect size for a home biodieseler, hand driven and works on exactly the same principal. Some experimentation will be required as to speed it is spun and it may require some modification I dont know until I or someone can post some results. I havent made any biodiesel yet and when I do I am definitly going to try this out, If any one is willing to give it a go now I would love to here about it and will be able to sort out any problems on-line. Best Regards Nick Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Deze e-mail is door E-mail VirusScanner van Planet Internet gecontroleerd op virussen. Op http://www.planet.nl/evs staat een verwijzing naar de actuele lijst waar op wordt gecontroleerd. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
Re: [biofuel] Palm oil...
Hello all, this is the first time for me to show up in this mailing list. I think everyone have right to ask something about biodiesel in this mailing list. Am I right Mr. Keith? For Mr. Jonathan, i'm new too. I have made my biodiesel from Palm Oil because My country, Indonesia was one of the larger producer of palm oil in the world. And now, some of Chemical Engineering Lecturer's Car int Institute Of Technology Bandung Indonesia use B10 (Methyl Esters 10% and Petroleum Diesel Fuel 90%) for their fuel without any damage and any change in their car. Until now, the car has been used for 20.000 kilometers. --- Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Jonathan Hey everyone, I'm very new to the group, the idea of using something other than fossil fuels, the whole thing. Therefore I'm more than sure I'll sound dumb to most of you if not all! Not at all, everyone has to start somewhere. The only dumb question is the one you don't ask. However, I have to do something! I don't like the price of gas and did not know I had other choices for fuel. I spend some of my time in West Africa. Palm oil is something I can get a lot of. Is it true that ANY oil can be used to make Biofuel without doing some damage to a Diesel Engine? Avoid the drying oils -see Iodine Values: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_yield.html#iodine Certainly you can use palm oil to make biodiesel. You might need more methanol - see How much methanol?, scroll down to Excess: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_meth.html Try some small test batches first - start here: Where do I start? http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#start Palm oil has a high Cloud Point, in other words it goes solid at about 14 deg C (57 deg F), and biodiesel made from it also has a high Cloud Point, no use for cold countries, fine for West Africa. Crude palm oil though, the raw product as it's produced before refining, is another matter. CPO can have very high Free Fatty Acid levels and is difficult to process. It can be done though - do a search at the Biofuels-biz archives for high FFA oils or Allen: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuels-biz/ Hope this helps. Best wishes Keith Trying to learn something new, Jonathan __ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] List Discussions As Biofuels
Source: CNN http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/06/25/breaking.silence/ Soldiers' photo exhibit strikes nerve Saturday, June 26, 2004 Posted: 1628 GMT (0028 HKT) A visitor looks at photos as part of Breaking the Silence, an exhibit compiled by Israeli reservists, in Tel Aviv. TEL AVIV, Israel (CNN) -- A photographic exhibit called Breaking the Silence has struck a nerve in Israel where critics say the images cast Israel in a poor light. All of the photos in the exhibit were taken by Israeli soldiers stationed in the West Bank city of Hebron. Many were fulfilling their compulsory military service. Some images show soldiers positioned behind camouflage netting, others with Palestinians in their gun sights, and others watching the city through night scopes. Some of the photographers were listed as anonymous in the exhibit now on display at the Tel Aviv Geographic Film School. The four reservists who created the exhibit said they did so because they wanted Israeli civilians to see what is happening in the Palestinian territories. One of the four, former Israel Defense Forces soldier Micha Kurz, said his three years in Hebron changed him for the worse. All the soldiers know that nobody knows at home what's really gone on, said Kurz. And they have done stuff that they're not happy with and they want people to know about it. Captured in the photos is a young Palestinian boy who was blindfolded and handcuffed for eight hours after he was caught throwing stones. Also pictured are Palestinian men left by the side of the road for hours at a time. And displayed on the wall are car keys confiscated from Palestinian drivers caught breaking curfew. The IDF said a few months ago that the IDF does not confiscate keys, and we know for a fact it happens on a daily basis, Kurz said. The longer he served in Hebron, the easier it got and the more aggressive he became, Kurz said. He also described personal conflicts he felt while defending 500 Jewish settlers in Hebron who are surrounded by 130,000 Palestinians. Kurz said some of the settlers would vandalize Palestinian shops and houses, write graffiti such as Arabs out, move into Palestinian shops in the middle of the night and turn them into homes, and their children threw rocks at an old Arab woman. But the most controversial part of the exhibit is the videotaped testimony of more than 70 former Israeli soldiers who describe indiscriminately firing tear gas and grenades, returning fire sometimes for hours at a time, mostly at empty buildings. During a visit to the exhibit, the Hebron soldiers' commander asked why none of that behavior was ever reported to him. They answered that the behavior was considered routine. Other active and former soldiers have visited the exhibit, including veteran Eli Allon. For me this is nothing new, he said. I know these things are happening in the territories. But Galylia Harel, the mother of a soldier currently in Hebron, was disturbed by the soldiers' stories. I worry for their souls. I am worried the damage is big that it will change Israeli society, she said. But some visitors are angry, saying the display makes Israel look bad. The Israeli army said it is investigating not only the claims made by the soldiers, but also the soldiers themselves. The IDF teaches soldiers to act according to morals, even in complicated situations including moral dilemmas, the army said in a statement. IDF military police interrogated three of the former soldiers who organized the exhibit, Haaretz reported on its Web site. They are trying to frighten us and other soldiers who have expressed readiness to take part in the project, Kurz told Haaretz. The army said it was gathering evidence of violence or vandalism against Palestinians, Haaretz reported. But while those MPs seized a videotape of the soldiers telling their stories, Kurz said they left behind the dozens of keys he said Israeli soldiers had taken from Palestinians. The exhibit is being widely reported and debated among Israelis. Many are asking if these are the actions of a few, or the daily reality of a soldier's life. The exhibit is scheduled to go next to the Israeli parliament. ___ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - so many all-new ways to express yourself http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to:
[biofuel] Re: Centrifugal seperator for biodiesel
Hi Mike and others, Buried in my origional post was a cheaper alternative, a cream seperator works on exactly the same principal so with very little modification will work i believe. The Westfalia ones are not very different to the standard seperator and the self cleaning ones are a waste of time for our level of production assuming even if it is a modest level of comercial production. Our fuel seperators were hand cleaned once a week to remove whatever crud came out of the fuel bunkers (usualy a bit of brown stuff except once when we received some fuel from a wheat transport, there was flour in the fuel), the oil one was a daily pig of a task as it seperated all the carbon from the engine oil and caked it onto the circumfrence of the drum. Regards Nick --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Mike Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For the large commercial operations in Europe, Westfalia separators have been specifically designed for Biodiesel. They are 'Flame Proofed (as there is methanol present) and can separate methanol/biodiesel/crude glycerol in 1 pass, PLUS wash wash in water and dry the biodiesel in 2 more passes. The problem is the cost. They start at £60,000.00 new, for a 5000 litre an hour machine. Even second-hand, a reconditioned machine is £20-£30k. The self-cleaning ones are even more money. I am building a Waste Veg Oil to biodiesel plant in the UK and am trying to find a cheaper alternative. I'll post any findings here. Regards Mike Taylor --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, not yourbuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Any news abaut the centrifugal separator?? Why there is not pics in this group Pics will be very useful to compare methods on how to make biodiesels Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Centrifugal seperator for biodiesel
Hi all Nick's diagram is here: http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/lst Yahoo! Photos - Thumbnails View I think you'll need to sign in with your Yahoo i/d and password - one reason we stopped using the Photo and Files sections. It didn't used to be that way until Yahoo improved it. Best wishes Keith Addison List owner Hi, I tried to post the picture but it appears that the link to add photos has been removed, probably with good reason with the problems Keith has had moderating this group. regards Nick --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, not yourbuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Any news abaut the centrifugal separator?? Why there is not pics in this group Pics will be very useful to compare methods on how to make biodiesels snip my origional post Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Centrifugal seperator for biodiesel
Hello Nick Hi Mike and others, Buried in my origional post was a cheaper alternative, a cream seperator works on exactly the same principal so with very little modification will work i believe. This has been discussed a few times I think. Last time was over separating water from WVO. Take a look: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/33948/ Best Keith The Westfalia ones are not very different to the standard seperator and the self cleaning ones are a waste of time for our level of production assuming even if it is a modest level of comercial production. Our fuel seperators were hand cleaned once a week to remove whatever crud came out of the fuel bunkers (usualy a bit of brown stuff except once when we received some fuel from a wheat transport, there was flour in the fuel), the oil one was a daily pig of a task as it seperated all the carbon from the engine oil and caked it onto the circumfrence of the drum. Regards Nick --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Mike Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For the large commercial operations in Europe, Westfalia separators have been specifically designed for Biodiesel. They are 'Flame Proofed (as there is methanol present) and can separate methanol/biodiesel/crude glycerol in 1 pass, PLUS wash wash in water and dry the biodiesel in 2 more passes. The problem is the cost. They start at £60,000.00 new, for a 5000 litre an hour machine. Even second-hand, a reconditioned machine is £20-£30k. The self-cleaning ones are even more money. I am building a Waste Veg Oil to biodiesel plant in the UK and am trying to find a cheaper alternative. I'll post any findings here. Regards Mike Taylor --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, not yourbuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Any news abaut the centrifugal separator?? Why there is not pics in this group Pics will be very useful to compare methods on how to make biodiesels Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Palm oil...
Hello Mochammad, welcome Hello all, this is the first time for me to show up in this mailing list. I think everyone have right to ask something about biodiesel in this mailing list. Am I right Mr. Keith? But of course! Not that it's for me to decide. What the list itself decided long ago, and ever since, is that discussions here are open and free, as long as we all behave ourselves. For Mr. Jonathan, i'm new too. I have made my biodiesel from Palm Oil because My country, Indonesia was one of the larger producer of palm oil in the world. Was that refined palm oil? Virgin oil or used? And now, some of Chemical Engineering Lecturer's Car int Institute Of Technology Bandung Indonesia use B10 (Methyl Esters 10% and Petroleum Diesel Fuel 90%) for their fuel without any damage and any change in their car. Until now, the car has been used for 20.000 kilometers. Good! Are you aiming for 100%? Have you put a sign on the car saying it runs on biodiesel? Best wishes Keith --- Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Jonathan Hey everyone, I'm very new to the group, the idea of using something other than fossil fuels, the whole thing. Therefore I'm more than sure I'll sound dumb to most of you if not all! Not at all, everyone has to start somewhere. The only dumb question is the one you don't ask. However, I have to do something! I don't like the price of gas and did not know I had other choices for fuel. I spend some of my time in West Africa. Palm oil is something I can get a lot of. Is it true that ANY oil can be used to make Biofuel without doing some damage to a Diesel Engine? Avoid the drying oils -see Iodine Values: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_yield.html#iodine Certainly you can use palm oil to make biodiesel. You might need more methanol - see How much methanol?, scroll down to Excess: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_meth.html Try some small test batches first - start here: Where do I start? http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#start Palm oil has a high Cloud Point, in other words it goes solid at about 14 deg C (57 deg F), and biodiesel made from it also has a high Cloud Point, no use for cold countries, fine for West Africa. Crude palm oil though, the raw product as it's produced before refining, is another matter. CPO can have very high Free Fatty Acid levels and is difficult to process. It can be done though - do a search at the Biofuels-biz archives for high FFA oils or Allen: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuels-biz/ Hope this helps. Best wishes Keith Trying to learn something new, Jonathan Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Pouring petrol on the flames RE: Fahrenheit 9/11
Unless you're willing to add people like Dr. King to your list of hell raisers and agitators, I could care less what you think of Mike. I will staunchly defend Mr. Moore's credibility as a fellow Michigander who has seen firsthand the stark contrast between what Flint once was, and what it became when General Motors pulled out. The official unemployment rate for Flint when Mike was filming Fahrenheit 9/11 was around 20%. However, unofficial estimates which include those who hadn't found work by the time their unemployment benefits ran out, puts the actual number for that time period at a more realistic 50% unemployed or underemployed (e.g. single parents working on a Chicken McNugget assembly line for $5.15/hr gross with no health benefits. At those wages, depending on local pricing, it can easily take more than an hour's worth of gross pay to afford a Quarter Pounder with Cheese, medium size freedom fries, and a medium Coke!). At least Henry Ford had enough common sense to pay his workers enough to be able to afford to buy the cars they built. Unfortunately for Flint, former GM president and CEO Roger Smith never learned that important business lesson. I heard Mike give a speech at Michigan State University last winter. During the audience question and answer period before he left the podium, someone asked him what we could do to rebuild Flint. Before Mike even opened his mouth to answer the question, another audience member blurted out, Bulldoze it! While emphatically disagreeing with the heckler's destructive non-solution, he had to unfortunately conclude that economic recovery for the City of Flint, Michigan won't become reality in the foreseeable future as long as the corporate tax structure continues to reward industry for eliminating American jobs in favor of cheaper foreign labor. Unfortunately, the post-cold war Republican Party has forgotten many of the speeches and writings of, in my opinion the last decent Republican President to serve America, General Dwight D. Eisenhower. In 1953, after breaking the grip of a Democratic Party hold on the Presidency that started 20 years prior (FDR/Truman combined terms ran from 1933 to 1953) and ushered in the Cold War, he had the wisdom to pull in the reins on the warhorses of industry in the interest of peace. During his Military service in the European and African theatres of World War II, he saw firsthand the hideous consequences of the merger of corporate influence (including the influence of members of the Bush family dating back to their Civil War era railroad interests) and military force. Say what you will about Mike, but in my opinion, he is to the dwindling working class of America what Dr. King was to African Americans in his time. Benito Mussolini said, Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power. The Bush administration has removed the velvet glove from the iron fist and slapped it across the face of the average American in a brazen challenge of the ultimate authority We the People exercise at the ballot box. Furthermore, they have deliberately and premeditatively manipulated America's economy in a concerted effort to limit employment options, toward the ultimate goal of making cannon fodder an attractive job title for many able-bodied Americans. As Abraham Lincoln, another Republican President, indeed the very first member of the Grand Old Party that has become a Greedy Oil Party to claim the title, once said, Ballots are the rightful and peaceful successor to bullets. Michael Moore is a true visionary leader in the fight to preserve and defend the benefits of liberty and democracy for the American proletariat from America's increasingly greedy, bloodthirsty, and fascist bourgeoisie. Just my $0.02 Will Dwyer, Activist and e-commerce entrepreneur Charlotte, Michigan -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2004 3:25 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Fahrenheit 9/11 Yeah, it is a little slanted isn't it? I for one do not care to see the country made over into the image that Michael Moore would like to see. I have seen pictures of that punk from his high school days reminds me too much of the hell raisers and agitators that are largely responsible for doing away with a number of the traditions and morals of this country. He still looks it, just older and uglier and fatter. Cliff Jobe Subject: Fahrenheit 9/11 Went to see this last night with my son (age 14). He thought it was awesome. Unfortunately, I could not interest any of the women in the party (my wife and sisters) in seeing it, so they went to something fluffy (multi-screen cinema). For those that don't know, this is a Michael Moore movie that touches on the American political scene since the last federal election, including the Florida voting fiasco, and the media-supported disinformation campaign that led
Re: [biofuel] Palm oil...
It was refined palm oil, straight vegetable oil. It's so hard to find the WVO in here because the people still use it for their food. No, we still apply B10 and B20, I don't think B100 will be save to vehicle without any change especially in plastic part. Ofcourse, we put a sign. Mr. Keith, do you know any idea how to refine the glycerine lye. I think vacuum distillation still expensive for small scale purpose. regards, Ircham __ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: Kerosene stoves - was Re[2]: [biofuel] Raschig rings
Hello folks, this passage have caught my eye: --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Gustl Steiner-Zehender [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hallo Keith, Saturday, 26 June, 2004, 23:19:07, you wrote: ...snips throughout... even more snips I have seen them using kerosene refrigerators and freezers though. Now, after reading this, I remembered, that there are thermaly driven refrigerators. And this lead me to the idea: to have a thermally driven air conditioner. It seams perfectly reasonable for homes with the solar in mind, _not_ to do air conditioning through this process: solar--(photovoltaic panel)--electricity--(air conditioner)--cooling but through this process: solar--(thermal collector)--heat--(heat driven AC)--cooling This eliminates the inefficient and costy solar energy conversion into electricity; quite a few houses have thermal panels for water heating already, so this method of AC might also use them... Has anyone here encountered such a beast? PS sorry, a little bit off-topic, but hey, still interesting... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Palm oil...
Thanks! I don't know what to do just yet But I will very soon! Jonathan Mochammad Ircham [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It was refined palm oil, straight vegetable oil. It's so hard to find the WVO in here because the people still use it for their food. No, we still apply B10 and B20, I don't think B100 will be save to vehicle without any change especially in plastic part. Ofcourse, we put a sign. Mr. Keith, do you know any idea how to refine the glycerine lye. I think vacuum distillation still expensive for small scale purpose. regards, Ircham __ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT - Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. J.J.A.M., Inc. Jonathan Lynden Dunlap IS Network Systems Analyst Your PC Linux Specialist P.O. Box 4209 Inglewood, California 90309-4209 323-779-2752/Home - Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Palm oil...
Keith, Thank you very much! This will help a lot!!! Jonathan Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Jonathan Hey everyone, I'm very new to the group, the idea of using something other than fossil fuels, the whole thing. Therefore I'm more than sure I'll sound dumb to most of you if not all! Not at all, everyone has to start somewhere. The only dumb question is the one you don't ask. However, I have to do something! I don't like the price of gas and did not know I had other choices for fuel. I spend some of my time in West Africa. Palm oil is something I can get a lot of. Is it true that ANY oil can be used to make Biofuel without doing some damage to a Diesel Engine? Avoid the drying oils -see Iodine Values: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_yield.html#iodine Certainly you can use palm oil to make biodiesel. You might need more methanol - see How much methanol?, scroll down to Excess: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_meth.html Try some small test batches first - start here: Where do I start? http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#start Palm oil has a high Cloud Point, in other words it goes solid at about 14 deg C (57 deg F), and biodiesel made from it also has a high Cloud Point, no use for cold countries, fine for West Africa. Crude palm oil though, the raw product as it's produced before refining, is another matter. CPO can have very high Free Fatty Acid levels and is difficult to process. It can be done though - do a search at the Biofuels-biz archives for high FFA oils or Allen: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuels-biz/ Hope this helps. Best wishes Keith Trying to learn something new, Jonathan Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT - Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. J.J.A.M., Inc. Jonathan Lynden Dunlap IS Network Systems Analyst Your PC Linux Specialist P.O. Box 4209 Inglewood, California 90309-4209 323-779-2752/Home __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Thernal cooling (was Kerosene stoves - was Raschig rings)
Suggest you do Internet search on solar absorption chiller or solar cooling. Darryl McMahon To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com From: tomasjkn [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date sent: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 11:13:19 - Subject:Re: Kerosene stoves - was Re[2]: [biofuel] Raschig rings Send reply to: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Hello folks, this passage have caught my eye: --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Gustl Steiner-Zehender [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hallo Keith, Saturday, 26 June, 2004, 23:19:07, you wrote: ...snips throughout... even more snips I have seen them using kerosene refrigerators and freezers though. Now, after reading this, I remembered, that there are thermaly driven refrigerators. And this lead me to the idea: to have a thermally driven air conditioner. It seams perfectly reasonable for homes with the solar in mind, _not_ to do air conditioning through this process: solar--(photovoltaic panel)--electricity--(air conditioner)--cooling but through this process: solar--(thermal collector)--heat--(heat driven AC)--cooling This eliminates the inefficient and costy solar energy conversion into electricity; quite a few houses have thermal panels for water heating already, so this method of AC might also use them... Has anyone here encountered such a beast? PS sorry, a little bit off-topic, but hey, still interesting... -- Darryl McMahon http://www.econogics.com/ It's your planet. If you won't look after it, who will? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Fahrenheit 9/11
I should send you a picture of me from high school. Of course, now I'm just older, uglier and fatter. I guess that means that nothing that I have to say is relevant. Sorry for ever posting here. As far as doing away with a number of the traditions and morals of this country (I assume you are talking of the USA, and not one of the numerous other countries represented here), I think that is just what Mr. Moore is fighting against. Have you ever heard of a thing commonly referred to as the Constitution? Bill of Rights? The traditions and morals contained in these documents are being weakened every day. I thank the God of my understanding that there are patriots like Mr. Moore willing to stand up to those that are destroying all that makes the US great. Brian --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah, it is a little slanted isn't it? I for one do not care to see the country made over into the image that Michael Moore would like to see. I have seen pictures of that punk from his high school days reminds me too much of the hell raisers and agitators that are largely responsible for doing away with a number of the traditions and morals of this country. He still looks it, just older and uglier and fatter. Cliff Jobe Subject: Fahrenheit 9/11 Went to see this last night with my son (age 14). He thought it was awesome. Unfortunately, I could not interest any of the women in the party (my wife and sisters) in seeing it, so they went to something fluffy (multi- screen cinema). For those that don't know, this is a Michael Moore movie that touches on the American political scene since the last federal election, including the Florida voting fiasco, and the media-supported disinformation campaign that led up to the invasion of Iraq. While it covers some of the same material as the book Dude, Where's My Country, there is also a major difference in approach and material covered. Not much that will come as news to those of us on the biofuels list. Still, seeing the actual footage of Bush-ites mouthing the words, or the egg- pelting of the Bush II inauguration parade and the Congress (Senators), with Al Gore presiding, repudiating the democratic rights of American voters all resonated for me in a way it did not in print. Should be required viewing for all U.S. voters prior to November 2004. Darryl McMahon -- Darryl McMahon http://www.econogics.com/ It's your planet. If you won't look after it, who will? __ __ __ __ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- -- Yahoo! Groups Links -- -- Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Fahrenheit 9/11
I hope no voters base their vote on anything that Michael Moore writes or films. All of his premises and arguements are based on skewed data and emotion. He really has a very poor arguement. Its very sad that people would take something, written by someone with severe political motivations and uses human emotions to get a reaction in stead of logic, as truth and fact. Do us all a favor, do your own research, otherwise, don't vote. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Palm oil...
The main problem with SVO using Palm oil is that it gums up. You'll get a white sticky hue and it crystalizes as well leaving residue in the engine and fuel lines. Cetane rating on Palm oil is quite high but I don't use it because it does gum up. It has to be turned into BD to be used properly. If you are going to use it as SVO a B20 is about as high as I'd push it and that would be in warm weather. I'm using Soya oil as a B50 SVO in a volkswagon TDI (2003) during the summer time, but in winter it's no more than B20. Palm oil is alot heavier than soy or cannolla and the weather plays a big part in how rich the SVO ratio will be. You also have to look at costs, since Palm oil is also a cooking oil, it's going to set you back a pretty penny even if you could use it as a B100. As for refining, I'm looking around at some of the smaller kits but have not made a purchase yet. Just something about storing chemicals in the garage in todays day and age -might give people the wrong impression of what's going on in the kitchen. Especially being a minority. Have fun! SM - Original Message - From: Jonathan Dunlap [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, June 28, 2004 7:33 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Palm oil... Thanks! I don't know what to do just yet But I will very soon! Jonathan Mochammad Ircham [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It was refined palm oil, straight vegetable oil. It's so hard to find the WVO in here because the people still use it for their food. No, we still apply B10 and B20, I don't think B100 will be save to vehicle without any change especially in plastic part. Ofcourse, we put a sign. Mr. Keith, do you know any idea how to refine the glycerine lye. I think vacuum distillation still expensive for small scale purpose. regards, Ircham __ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT - Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. J.J.A.M., Inc. Jonathan Lynden Dunlap IS Network Systems Analyst Your PC Linux Specialist P.O. Box 4209 Inglewood, California 90309-4209 323-779-2752/Home - Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Palm oil...
It was refined palm oil, straight vegetable oil. It's so hard to find the WVO in here because the people still use it for their food. Aarghhh! Not good for their health! But I know it happens, not just in Indonesia. No, we still apply B10 and B20, I don't think B100 will be save to vehicle without any change especially in plastic part. Unless it's a very old vehicle it'll be fine, as long as you wash the biodiesel properly first. Please see: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_vehicle.html#rubber Biodiesel and your vehicle Compatibility: Rubber Have a look at Maria Alovert's comment (Girl Mark). We agree with that, that's what we've found too. Even if it does happen (unlikely), it won't be sudden, you'll have plenty of warning. Just put it in and go! Ofcourse, we put a sign. Good! Mr. Keith, do you know any idea how to refine the glycerine lye. Depends what you mean. Have you seen this? Separating glycerine http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_glycerin.html#separate Purifying glycerine http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_glycerin.html#purify I think vacuum distillation still expensive for small scale purpose. I think so too. But it all depends on what you can find a market for and how the economics of it work out. In our case, it doesn't bother us, we use it all up! By the way, please, no need for Mr, and my apologies, did I get your name the wrong way round? Mochammad is your family name and Ircham your given name? Please pardon my asking. Best wishes Keith regards, Ircham Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Re: Fahrenheit 9/11
I happen to be a staunch political independent who trusts in nothing but gut instinct to guide my decisions on Election Day. My instincts have saved my skin in countless ways over the years, and they've very seldom failed me. I don't need to surf the web or listen to blowhard pundits on the left, right, or in between to make up my mind. When the supposed leader of the free world sits in an elementary school looking like a deer in the headlights for seven minutes after his chief of staff informs him that the country is under attack, that's all I really need to know. Bush choked under the pressure, so as far as I'm concerned he can stick to driving cars into ditches, and turn America's keys over to someone else who isn't so intoxicated with power. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, June 28, 2004 9:18 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Fahrenheit 9/11 I hope no voters base their vote on anything that Michael Moore writes or films. All of his premises and arguements are based on skewed data and emotion. He really has a very poor arguement. Its very sad that people would take something, written by someone with severe political motivations and uses human emotions to get a reaction in stead of logic, as truth and fact. Do us all a favor, do your own research, otherwise, don't vote. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Sample
I have corrected your document. +++ Attachment: No Virus found +++ Kaspersky AntiVirus - www.kaspersky.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Fahrenheit 9/11
I hope you're not voting then. The last Michael Moore book I read had 26 pages regarding works cited. He said himself that his publications aren't fair. At least he doesn't claim to be when he's not. [foxnews.com] -- -- Martin Klingensmith http://infoarchive.net/ http://nnytech.net/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I hope no voters base their vote on anything that Michael Moore writes or films. All of his premises and arguements are based on skewed data and emotion. He really has a very poor arguement. Its very sad that people would take something, written by someone with severe political motivations and uses human emotions to get a reaction in stead of logic, as truth and fact. Do us all a favor, do your own research, otherwise, don't vote. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Plants for biodiesel fuel
nbvillarruz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Philippines is mainly an agricultural country. Can anyone give suggestion on what plants to plant for biodiesel fuel ? Agtalin Shrine Our Lady of the Miraculous Medal reply. dear sir, jetropa seed can be used for biodiesel The main reason jatropha is flavour-of-the-month in India is because there's a government subsidy for it there, and it's by no means agreed that that's a good thing, either the subsidy or the jatropha. See: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/34917/ http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/19671/ There is no subsidy for jatropha in the Philippines, nor any reports that I know of that jatropha would do well there. In any case, what will always be the better choice is what is already grown in a particular locality by the local people - regardless of yield. Yield is often a red herring - it's just one factor, not the only one, often not the most important one. Where there is no locally grown crop that could be adapted for biofuels production (unlikely) there are bound to be other plants, whether trees or weeds, and these too are a better choice than imported crops that the locals know nothing about and are not locally adapted. I was approached by someone in a southern country asking what the best crop would be for local farmers to achieve energy independence, and also asking for help in fighting a troublesome local weed... which turned out to be a high-yielding oilseed crop. They were looking in the wrong direction, for some super-duper foreign import, when the answer was right under their noses. There are many choices available in the Philippines. An archive search will turn up quite a few of them, this question has been asked before. We've hardly begun to scratch the surface of the available crops for biofuels production. Check out these two databases, for instance: Other oil crops http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_yield.html#othercrops Best wishes Keith thanks ramdas.c. http://www.visayanislands.com/capiz.php Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Palm oil...
Hm... I think you should read these: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_SVO-Allen.html Straighter-than-straight vegetable oils as diesel fuels http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_SVO-palm.html Palm Oil as a Fuel for Agricultural Diesel Engines The main problem with SVO using Palm oil is that it gums up. You'll get a white sticky hue and it crystalizes as well leaving residue in the engine and fuel lines. It doesn't gum up. There are two different things here. You need to understand what the Iodine Value of oils is and what it means. It's fully explained here: Iodine Values http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_yield.html#iodine You really have to understand this if you're going to deal with SVO and biodiesel. Oils with high Iodine Values have low gelling temperatures and vice versa. BUT - oils with high Iodine Values are also drying oils: they polymerise, especially with heat. Oils with low Iodine Values don't polymerise, they're not drying oils, but they have higher gelling points. Gelling means it sets solid, like lard, no use for fuel - unless you heat it, then it melts again. Polymerisation of a drying oil means it hardens irreversibly into a plastic-like solid - heating it won't melt it again. This is why drying oils with high Iodine Values like linseed or tung oil are used in paints. Not what you want in your motor, whether as SVO or as biodiesel. Think of polyester resin used for glass fibre - for gelling, think of butter. Palm oil has a low Iodine Value and will not dry. It will however gel at quite a high temperature. And that's what's happening to you - the white hue is the stearin and palmitin in the palm oil. It's not gumming up, it's waxing up. You can't use palm oil in Canada. You can't use palm oil biodiesel in Canada either. What you seem to be missing is that Ircham is in Indonesia, and Jonathan is talking of using it in West Africa, not places where it gets cold. Palm oil will be just fine for them. Cetane rating on Palm oil is quite high but I don't use it because it does gum up. It has to be turned into BD to be used properly. If you are going to use it as SVO a B20 is about as high as I'd push it and that would be in warm weather. I'm using Soya oil as a B50 SVO in a volkswagon TDI (2003) during the summer time, but in winter it's no more than B20. Maybe you should read this too: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_TDI.html The TDI-SVO controversy You should at least be pre-heating your SVO (in which case you could use palm oil too wihout it gumming up). Palm oil is alot heavier Heavier? than soy or cannolla and the weather plays a big part in how rich the SVO ratio will be. You also have to look at costs, since Palm oil is also a cooking oil, it's going to set you back a pretty penny even if you could use it as a B100. West Africa and Indonesia are major world producers of palm oil. Anyway your point isn't very clear - both soy and canola are also cooking oils. As for refining, I'm looking around at some of the smaller kits but have not made a purchase yet. You mean for making biodiesel? Beware! Make your own! Best Keith Just something about storing chemicals in the garage in todays day and age -might give people the wrong impression of what's going on in the kitchen. Especially being a minority. Have fun! SM - Original Message - From: Jonathan Dunlap [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, June 28, 2004 7:33 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Palm oil... Thanks! I don't know what to do just yet But I will very soon! Jonathan Mochammad Ircham [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It was refined palm oil, straight vegetable oil. It's so hard to find the WVO in here because the people still use it for their food. No, we still apply B10 and B20, I don't think B100 will be save to vehicle without any change especially in plastic part. Ofcourse, we put a sign. Mr. Keith, do you know any idea how to refine the glycerine lye. I think vacuum distillation still expensive for small scale purpose. regards, Ircham __ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT - Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. J.J.A.M., Inc. Jonathan Lynden Dunlap IS Network Systems Analyst Your PC Linux Specialist P.O. Box 4209
Re: [biofuel] Fahrenheit 9/11
Hallo, Writing from my daughters machine. New grandson last night! Why should it not be slanted? Mike is a liberal and states that from the get go. It is his movie, eh? As for the reminding one of a high school punk. I am a native of Flint and when I came home from the Nam and was hanging out here and there I met Mike. He was just a youngster in high school and he was a nice kid. Still is for that matter I would think. I remember Flint as is was in the late 40's and early 50's and he is right about the decline of Flint and the main reasons for that decline. Corporate greed. I remember my grandfather talking about the sit down strikes in '36 and the early union and how it became just like management in the mid '50's interested in only 2 things. More money/benefits for less and less work and the maintainance of the status quo, that being keeping the union bosses in their cushy jobs. Management wanted more and more work for less money and to maintain the status quo, that being keeping the managment bosses in their cushy jobs. Mike Moore tells it as he sees it and is right more often than not. There is no reason for him to be other than one sided because he is defending a partisan position. I don't remember seeing the rule which states that liberals have to be fair and balanced and conservatives not or vice versa. Moore is attacking evil as he sees it and unlike politicians he documents what he says and those documents are up for viewing on his web site. His documents are not fabricated as were those which this administration used to lead the country into an unjust and evil war. Bush and his running mates have been exposed for what they are. Moore will not have that trouble as he is up front in the first place and doesn't hide behind lies and national security. The difference between Bush and Moore is one of integrity. Both of them make mistakes but Moore does not lie about his mistakes. Bush has been proven to be a liar. Happy Happy, Gustl On Sun, 27 Jun 2004 14:25:19 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah, it is a little slanted isn't it? I for one do not care to see the country made over into the image that Michael Moore would like to see. I have seen pictures of that punk from his high school days reminds me too much of the hell raisers and agitators that are largely responsible for doing away with a number of the traditions and morals of this country. He still looks it, just older and uglier and fatter. Cliff Jobe Subject: Fahrenheit 9/11 Went to see this last night with my son (age 14). He thought it was awesome. Unfortunately, I could not interest any of the women in the party (my wife and sisters) in seeing it, so they went to something fluffy (multi-screen cinema). For those that don't know, this is a Michael Moore movie that touches on the American political scene since the last federal election, including the Florida voting fiasco, and the media-supported disinformation campaign that led up to the invasion of Iraq. While it covers some of the same material as the book Dude, Where's My Country, there is also a major difference in approach and material covered. Not much that will come as news to those of us on the biofuels list. Still, seeing the actual footage of Bush-ites mouthing the words, or the egg- pelting of the Bush II inauguration parade and the Congress (Senators), with Al Gore presiding, repudiating the democratic rights of American voters all resonated for me in a way it did not in print. Should be required viewing for all U.S. voters prior to November 2004. Darryl McMahon -- Darryl McMahon http://www.econogics.com/ It's your planet. If you won't look after it, who will? Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [biofuel] Re: Sample
Not from me, someone have a virus. Probably an attempt to send a virus to the list, good that it does not allow attachments. Hakan At 16:55 28/06/2004, you wrote: I have corrected your document. +++ Attachment: No Virus found +++ Kaspersky AntiVirus - www.kaspersky.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Fahrenheit 9/11
He could site 500 works for all I care, it doesn't mean he used the information accurately or in context. He is not a source of information, he is a source of entertainment. He slants information to make his point, and his point alone. He is like any other media outlet, its a lot easier to twist the facts to your point than to properly interpert the facts and come up with the truth. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
FW: [biofuel] Re: Fahrenheit 9/11
See below Regards, Dermot -Original Message- From: Dermot [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 28 June 2004 17:32 To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [biofuel] Re: Fahrenheit 9/11 Pretty strong words there, partner. Can you back them up with examples of where Moore has lied or skewed facts? Mere assertion is not enough! Regards, Dermot -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 28 June 2004 14:18 To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Fahrenheit 9/11 I hope no voters base their vote on anything that Michael Moore writes or films. All of his premises and arguements are based on skewed data and emotion. He really has a very poor arguement. Its very sad that people would take something, written by someone with severe political motivations and uses human emotions to get a reaction in stead of logic, as truth and fact. Do us all a favor, do your own research, otherwise, don't vote. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Re: Fahrenheit 9/11
I would certainly like to hear what you would have done in that situation. If he had jumped up and ran out of the room he would have caused panic. Of course then everyone on the left would say he showed bad form. If he made a statement right then and there, he would be speaking on almost no information. There was nothing he could do from where he was, there was nothing anyone could do. Perhaps he should have run to the local phone booth switched outfits and flown out to save the day, but aside from that, everyone was entirely helpless. Honestly, I don't think I'll be voting for Bush, but I don't think he did anything wrong before, during and the period after, 9/11. I don't think anyone would have, or could have done anything better without a seer to predict the future. My problems lie with his justifications for the Iraq war, buts thats another issue entirely. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Fahrenheit 9/11
For those of us outside the US, the movie is called Celcius 488 Pierre --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Darryl McMahon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Went to see this last night with my son (age 14). He thought it was awesome. Unfortunately, I could not interest any of the women in the party (my wife and sisters) in seeing it, so they went to something fluffy (multi- screen cinema). For those that don't know, this is a Michael Moore movie that touches on the American political scene since the last federal election, including the Florida voting fiasco, and the media-supported disinformation campaign that led up to the invasion of Iraq. While it covers some of the same material as the book Dude, Where's My Country, there is also a major difference in approach and material covered. Not much that will come as news to those of us on the biofuels list. Still, seeing the actual footage of Bush-ites mouthing the words, or the egg- pelting of the Bush II inauguration parade and the Congress (Senators), with Al Gore presiding, repudiating the democratic rights of American voters all resonated for me in a way it did not in print. Should be required viewing for all U.S. voters prior to November 2004. Darryl McMahon -- Darryl McMahon http://www.econogics.com/ It's your planet. If you won't look after it, who will? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Jet Fuel
I just got this response to a friend of mine. He is now an assistant professor and ground school instructor at Embry Riddle University, Daytona Beach, FL. Doesn't sound like everything is on the up and up for overflow in the fill hose idea. Steve Steve: This does not sound right to me. When I was a student at Embry Riddle, I worked for 2 summers at a large airport fueling Jets. I drove a huge fueling truck that carried 20,000 gal of jet fuel. I pulled up to the jet, got out of the truck, grounded my truck to the plane and fueled the plane. I recorded how many gallons it took. I was also responsible for re-filling the fuel truck when it was empty from the storage tanks. We NEVER had to empty hoses. So I am at a loss to explain the other person's statement that you can run on line overflows. There simply is no such animal. There is no waste. Fuel is simply too expensive to have any waste. If you emptied the lines then you have air in the system and that would cause flow problems. If this guy is running on line overflow waste, then he is stealing it. The other part of this that does not ring true is the regulations impossed on aviation businesses by the EPA. They are unbelievablly strick. Embry Riddle has to account for EVERY DROP of fluids is uses to conduct bussiness. They stopped the practice of draining the sumps and throwing the fuel on the ground. It was beginning to show up in soil samples. Fuel, oil, hydrolic fluid, cleaning fluid, etc etc. has to be 100% accounted for or else heavy fines are assesed. Hope this helps Tom --- towcloud9 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Greg Harbican [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How did you find out about this? Greg H. A good friend of mine is an airplane mechanic in a small airport. They mostly work on small planes, but the commercial jets get filled by their company. While filling, ther's usually a gallon or more of overflow left in the fill hose that has to be emptied. It adds up. My buddy has been running on the airplane fuel in his Toyota for years. He's had to replace the head gasket 3 times, but has almost 400,000 on it running airplane fuel! (No, his truck wouldn't pass CA emissions). Unfortunately it's a 55 min drive for me to get it weekly,but I think it'd be worth it. Thanks for your replies! I might be able to purchase bioD locally, anyone know what a good mix would be? 50/50? __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Fahrenheit 9/11
I hope you're not voting then. The last Michael Moore book I read had 26 pages regarding works cited. Which is 100% more than Randall's managed to do, along with most of the people who say just that about him and his work. Short of non-sources and anti-sources like the NY Post, the Washington Times, the Weekly Standard and so on, that is. He said himself that his publications aren't fair. At least he doesn't claim to be when he's not. [foxnews.com] -- That's a dog's breakfast Martin. You can see journalists and media being grossly and deliberately unfair while sticking meticulously to the letter of fairness and duly giving both sides, and you can also see journalists being extremely fair while taking up the cudgels in an issue of social justice and neglecting the other side completely - which is not necessarily being biased: when people are guilty they're guilty, saying so and proving it is not bias, handing them the mike so they can spin out a few slimy excuses is not necessarily being fair. Nor are facts and emotion necessarily at odds with each other, at times they fit together most appropriately. Michael Moore's a bit like that, though he does give the other side a say. The skewed data bit amuses me a bit though. That line seems to come out kind of automatically with some people whenever you press the Michael Moore button. I think he's careful. It's a happy sign that his movie's doing so well (Hoagy's posts) and that Greg Palast's book is selling so well in the US, and quite a few others of that ilk too. There's hope, spinmeisters notwithstanding, maybe the web they weave is unravelling. The whole world's very bothered about all this right now, with good reason, and they've every right to be. A lot of people who aren't Americans are placing a lot of faith and a lot of hope and goodwill in what it really is that really makes America and Americans really great, and that it will reassert itself. Not an idle hope, I hope. This list is a great microcosm sometimes. Regards Keith -- Martin Klingensmith http://infoarchive.net/ http://nnytech.net/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I hope no voters base their vote on anything that Michael Moore writes or films. All of his premises and arguements are based on skewed data and emotion. He really has a very poor arguement. Its very sad that people would take something, written by someone with severe political motivations and uses human emotions to get a reaction in stead of logic, as truth and fact. Do us all a favor, do your own research, otherwise, don't vote. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Sample
Right, Hakan, I knew it wasn't from you. Your address was stolen from the address book on the infected machine and used as a false sender's address. The guy whose machine is infected and spewing out viruses all the time doesn't even know it. Not from me, someone have a virus. Probably an attempt to send a virus to the list, good that it does not allow attachments. No attachments, nor html coded text in the message, nor anything other than plain-text ASCII, so it's impossible to get a virus from the list. This is how they die: [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Killed before they get anywhere. Unfortunately there's no way to prevent your address being used by a virus - if it's in the address book on an infected machine, it'll be used. MILLIONS of Windows machines are infected. A recent security survey of one million business computers in the US found IIRC an average of 28 worms or viruses per machine. We just have to live with it. Kind of amusing Bill Gates offering a reward for virus writers. Bill Gates IS a virus, IMO - is THE virus. LOL! Best Keith Hakan At 16:55 28/06/2004, you wrote: I have corrected your document. +++ Attachment: No Virus found +++ Kaspersky AntiVirus - www.kaspersky.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Disinfecting PC's
G'day; Although no computer is 100% secure while connected to the information highway, which was designed to allow FREE FLOW of information until the anti-free-flow people got involved, it is possible to reduce the risks. In the case of Windows which is stil the most widely used, a good anti-virus/anti-hacking program with a decent firewall such as Norton Internet Security from Symantec combined with Lavasoft's Ad- Aware 6.0 (freeware) http://www.download.com/3000-2144-10045910.html? part=69274subj=dlpagetag=button and SpyBot Search and Destroy (freeware) http://www.safer-networking.org/ The later two getting rid of dropped tracking cookies and undesireable spy programs and the Norton for first line defence. Now if your machine is being ISP'd by a responsible provider it will be doubly protected. Trend Micro also has an free on-line scan for viruses at their site called House Call.http://housecall.trendmicro.com/ Clean 'em up and head 'em out ! L. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Fahrenheit 9/11
Greets...A newbie to the list (me) chimes in ... Im still learning about biofuels and really appreciate this amazing list and Keith's great work keeping it going. I want to have the ability to make batches of biodiesel in the future and am in the early stages of research right now. Intro over now to the point. F911 is an op-ed film and does not pretend to be a piece of journalism - yet the way the right talks about it, you'd think Moore was in the same category with Jason Blair. There is nothing inherently false about propaganda. (Citation: Webster's New World Dictionary, Second College Edition, 1986.) Usually it is based on falsehoods, but not necessarily. No one can credibly say that most of the prewar reporting on Iraq's WMD or links to AQ was objective or balanced or even honest. Yet, after the fact, when we have so much more empirical information to go on, Moore is labeled a propagandist and Judith Miller still has her job. All I can say is, this is not a sustainable situation. Most Americans (if they didnt already know it) are waking up to the fact that something is very wrong with this administration, the cognitive dissonance this brings to the devoted flocks on the right notwithstanding. With over 800 Americans and perhaps 10,000 Iraqis dead, and with a strong, resurgent and global Al Qaeda network, it is a mistake not easily admitted. For more see www.costofwar.com I'll be back later regarding biofuels. Here's a strong factual defense of the movie. Cheers, Sam Johnston San Francisco, CA - http://www.alternet.org/movies/19062/ Moore Light, Moore heat The Progress Report. Posted June 28, 2004. Even before 'Fahrenheit 9/11' opened at theaters, the White House and its right-wing allies tried to smear both the messenger and the message. But the facts support the film. Even before Michael Moore's Fahrenheit 9/11 opened in theaters last Friday, the White House and its right-wing allies sought to smear both the film and Moore personally. Last month, White House communications director Dan Bartlett said the movie was so outrageously false it's not even worth comment, even though he had not yet seen the film. Meanwhile, the Hollywood Reporter discovered that big-time conservative donors are funding a slew of anti-Moore activities. Following the White House's tactic of attacking critics' patriotism, the right-wing is also apparently bankrolling a movie called Michael Moore Hates America. But despite conservatives' best efforts to discredit the film, the NY Times notes, central assertions of fact in 'Fahrenheit 9/11' are supported by the public record. When the movie was aired at the Cannes Film Festival, it won top prize from a panel made up of mostly American and British judges. ACCURATE - NEW REPORT SAYS SAUDI FLIGHTS OCCURRED ON 9/13: Critics have accused Moore of wrongly claiming a group of Saudis were allowed to fly out of the United States on September 13, when much of American airspace was still closed. In fact, the movie accurately reports that 142 Saudis, including 24 members of the bin Laden family, were allowed to leave after September 13 - a fact well documented by the 9/11 Commission. Additionally, new reports prove that Saudi flights did occur on 9/13, despite three years of Bush administration denials. As the St. Petersburg Times reports, on September 13,with most of the nation's air traffic still grounded, a small jet landed at Tampa International Airport, picked up three young Saudi men and left for Lexington, KY. The Saudis then took another flight out of the country. Because the information is so new, it was not in the 9/11 Commission's preliminary report. Subsequently, however, the commission has asked the Tampa airport for any information about 'a chartered flight with six people, including a Saudi prince, that flew from Tampa, Florida on or about Sept. 13, 2001.' ACCURATE - BUSH WAS NOT FOCUSED ON TERRORISM: In the movie, Moore charges that President Bush did not pay enough attention to pre-9/11 warnings that al Qaeda was about to attack. Instead of focusing on terrorism, charges the movie, the president spent 42 percent of his first eight months in office on vacation. That figure came not from a conspiracy-hungry Web site but from a calculation by The Washington Post. Read American Progress's report Truth Consequences: The Bush Administration and 9/11 for a comprehensive history of how the White House underfunded counter-terrorism and downgraded terrorism as a priority before 9/11. See American Progress's new Complete Saudi Primer - a guide to everything you always wanted to know about the Bush-Saudi connection but were afraid to ask. DISNEY'S EFFORT TO CENSOR MICHAEL MOORE: At the direction of CEO Michael Eisner (who is a Bush campaign contributor), the Walt Disney Company prohibited its Miramax division from distributing Fahrenheit 911. The company enjoys a cozy relationship with President
[biofuel] 'Fahrenheit 9/11' ban?
http://www.thehill.com/news/062404/moore.aspx June 24, 2004 'Fahrenheit 9/11' ban? Ads for Moore's movie could be stopped on July 30 By Alexander Bolton Michael Moore may be prevented from advertising his controversial new movie, Fahrenheit 9/11, on television or radio after July 30 if the Federal Election Commission (FEC) today accepts the legal advice of its general counsel. At the same time, a Republican-allied 527 soft-money group is preparing to file a complaint against Moore's film with the FEC for violating campaign-finance law. In a draft advisory opinion placed on the FEC's agenda for today's meeting, the agency's general counsel states that political documentary filmmakers may not air television or radio ads referring to federal candidates within 30 days of a primary election or 60 days of a general election. The opinion is generated under the new McCain-Feingold campaign-finance law, which prohibits corporate-funded ads that identify a federal candidate before a primary or general election. The proscription is broadly defined. Section 100.29 of the federal election regulations defines restricted corporate-funded ads as those that identify a candidate by his name, nickname, photograph or drawing or make it otherwise apparent through an unambiguous reference. Should the six members of the FEC vote to approve the counsel's opinion, it could put a serious crimp on Moore's promotion efforts. The flavor of the movie was encapsulated by a recent review in The Boston Globe as the case against George W. Bush, a fat compendium of previously reported crimes, errors, sins, and grievances delivered in the director's patented tone of vaudevillian social outrage. The FEC ruling may also affect promotion of a slew of other upcoming political documentaries and films, such as Uncovered: The Whole Truth About the Iraq War, which opens in August, The Corporation, about democratic institutions being subsumed by the corporate agenda, or Silver City, a recently finished film by John Sayles that criticizes the Bush administration. Another film, The Hunting of the President, which investigates whether Bill Clinton was the victim of a vast conspiracy, could be subject to regulations if it mentions Bush or members of Congress in its ads. Since the FEC considers the Republican presidential convention scheduled to begin Aug. 30 a national political primary in which Bush is a candidate, Moore and other politically oriented filmmakers could not air any ad mentioning Bush after July 30. That could make advertising for the film after July difficult since it is all about the Bush administration and what Moore regards as its mishandling of the war on terrorism and the decision to invade Iraq. After the convention, ads for political films that mention Bush or any other federal candidate would be subject to the restrictions on all corporate communications within 60 days of the Nov. 2 general election. Fahrenheit 9/11 opens nationally tomorrow. The film's distributor, Lions Gate Films, an incorporated organization, would almost certainly pay for its broadcast promotions. David Bossie, the president of Citizens United, plans to allege that Fahrenheit 9/11 violates federal election law, arguing that Moore has publicly indicated his goal is to impact this election season. Bossie had planned to file a complaint with the FEC yesterday but postponed action because his lawyers want to review it at the last minute, said Summer Stitz, a spokeswoman for Bossie's group. I don't think much of Michael Moore or his two-hour political advertisement - that's all it is, Bossie said. He uses all of these words to make it look like he makes documentaries, but it's the furthest thing from the truth. Documentaries tend to be fact-based. Sarah Greenberg, a spokeswoman for Lions Gate Films who is serving as Moore's spokeswoman, did not return a call for comment. The FEC counsel's draft advisory opinion responded to a request for guidance from David Hardy, a documentary film producer with the Bill of Rights Educational Foundation. Hardy asked whether he could air broadcast ads that refer to congressional officeholders who appear in his documentary. At issue in the FEC's opinion is whether documentary films qualify for a media exemption, which allows members of the press to discuss political candidates freely in the days before an election. In its opinion, the general counsel wrote, In McConnell vs. FEC É (2003) the [Supreme] Court described the media exemption as 'narrow' and drew a distinction between 'corporations that are part of the media industry' as opposed to 'other corporations that are not involved in the regular business of imparting news to the public.' The radio and television commercials that you describe in your request would be electioneering communications, the counsel concluded. The proposed commercials would refer to at least one presidential candidate. É
[biofuel] Israel and Iran chart collision course
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/FF26Ak01.html Jun 26, 2004 Israel and Iran chart collision course By Kaveh L Afrasiabi The United States and its European allies may be self-indulging in a Wilsonian greater Middle East project or discourse frowned on by the region's politicians and intellectuals, yet there is little doubt about the operation of Israeli power well beyond her tiny borders pushing for a greater Israel. This much can be surmised by studying Israel's foreign policy toward Central Asia and the Caucasus since the Soviet Union's breakup, which, in tandem with Turkey, has allowed Israel to launch its own version of sphere of influence politics in what the late Israeli prime minister Izhak Rabin termed as the new Middle East; this concept has been viewed rather favorably by Israeli pundits since it implies the region's jailbreak from the Arab-dominated sub-system. Thus, it is hardly surprising that, per a report in the latest issue of the New Yorker, Israel is actively involved in supporting the Iraqi Kurds, who are fast sowing the seeds of their independence, albeit often under the convenient guise of a new Iraqi federalism. According to the article by veteran writer Seymour Hersh, who has aptly unearthed the secrets of Israel's nuclearization, not to mention the Abu Ghraib prison torture fiasco, Israel's secret service, Mossad, is engaged in covert operations among Iranian and Syrian Kurds, in addition to training Iraqi Kurd commandos and setting up the latter as a counterweight to Shi'ite militias. Raising the ire of Turkey, whose government has criticized Israel's iron fist approach toward the Palestinians, the government of Israel has reportedly denied the allegations in Hersh's article. In Hersh's Plan B, Israel's rationale has been described as purely a response to the fear of militant Shi'ism emanating from Iran, and the US's inability to contain this threat. Maybe so, but what Hersh has missed is the economic dimension of Israel's push for a Kurdish state or, at the least, a largely autonomous Kurdish region in Iraq which could realize the long sought-after dream of an oil pipeline from Mosul to Haifa, echoing the statement last March in the Israeli paper, Haaretz, by Minister for National Infrastructures Joseph Paritzky, that such a pipeline would diversify Israel's sources of energy and lessen its dependence on expensive Russian oil. The fact that this pipeline would have to travel through the weak and compliant state of Jordan does not seem, at least from the prism of Israel's national (security) interests to be an insurmountable problem. Unfortunately, Hersh appears all too willing in his article to adopt Israel's stated rationalization, ie, fear of Shi'ite radicalism, without probing either the geoeconomic factors or Israel's growing ambitious foreign policy casting a wider and wider net just as this regional superpower grows in military and economic might in a rather stagnant region. Equally absent in Hersh's piece is any reference to Israel's direct assistance to American counter-insurgency operations, which has been the subject of investigative journalism by various European newspapers such as the Guardian in the United Kingdom. Regardless of the Israeli government's official denial, Hersh's story is bound to reverberate throughout the Middle East and fuel the fire of conspiracy theorists who depict a proxy war by the US, articulated by a largely Jewish group of Washington policymakers known as neo-conservatives, in the interest of Israel. In turn, such news makes it even harder for the US to win the legitimacy battle in Iraq as well in the entire Arab world. Still, it is noteworthy that in light of the Sunni-Shi'ite divisions, Israel's self-portrayal as a deterrent force against Iran-led Shi'ite insurgency may strike a harmonious cord with some Sunnis, but it is doubtful that with growing Shi'ite-Sunni cooperation against the US occupation, Israel's strategy may find too many admirers either in Iraq or elsewhere in the Muslim world. Rather, news of Israel's clandestine operations in Kurdish Iraq, fomenting Kurdish irredentism, will likely cause an anti-Israel backlash, including in Turkey, which must reckon with its own volatile Islamists. Nonetheless, strategically speaking, any immediate or short-term harm to Israel's strategic alliance with Turkey may be worth the long-term dividend of a divided Iraq light years removed from menacing Israel again and, what is more, featuring a pro-Israel Kurdish enclave mirror imaging pro-Iran warlords in Afghanistan. Whether or not Israel can then utilize its Kurdish stick for a quid pro quo with Iran vis-a-vis the Hizbollah in Lebanon or Hamas and Jihad in the occupied territories remains to be seen. For the moment, however, in terms of regional balance of power, the post-invasion opening of Iraq to foreign influence has seemingly set up a new, and dangerous,
[biofuel] Congress Overwhelmingly Endorses Ariel Sharon's Annexation Plans
The vote, therefore, constitutes nothing less than an overwhelming bipartisan renunciation of the post-World War II international system, effectively recognizing the right of conquest. --- http://www.fpif.org/commentary/2004/0406sharon.html Foreign Policy In Focus | Global Affairs Commentary | FPIF Commentary Congress Overwhelmingly Endorses Ariel Sharon's Annexation Plans By Stephen Zunes | June 25, 2004 Editor: John Gershman, Interhemispheric Resource Center (IRC) Foreign Policy In Focus www.fpif.org On Wednesday, June 23, 2004, the U.S. House of Representatives, in an overwhelming bipartisan vote, endorsed right-wing Israeli prime minister Ariel Sharon's efforts to colonize and annex large sections of the Palestinian West Bank, seized by Israel in the June 1967 war. This was not just another pro-Israel (or, more accurately, pro-Israeli right) resolution, but an effective renunciation of the post-World War II international system based upon the premise of the illegitimacy of the expansion of a country's territory by military force. House Concurrent Resolution 460, sponsored by right-wing Republican leader Tom DeLay, strongly endorses the letter sent by President George W. Bush to the Israeli prime minister in April supporting his so-called disengagement plan. This unilateral initiative calls for withdrawing the illegal Israeli settlements from the occupied Gaza Strip, but-far more significantly-would incorporate virtually all of the illegal settlements in the occupied West Bank into Israel, leaving the Palestinians with a series of non-contiguous and economically unviable cantons, each surrounded by Israeli territory, collectively constituting barely 10% of historic Palestine. (Even in the case of the Gaza Strip, Sharon's plan would allow Israel to control the borders, the ports, and the airspace, as well as having the right to conduct military operations inside Palestinian areas at will.) The vote was 407 in favor of the resolution and only 9 opposed. The Bush letter so overwhelming supported by the House declares that the United States will do its utmost to prevent any attempt by anyone to impose any other plan.'' Indeed, the resolution appears to be part of an effort to short-circuit last fall's Geneva Initiative, a comprehensive peace plan supported by the Palestinian leadership and leading Israeli moderates. In that proposal, the Palestinians agreed that Israel could annex some blocs of settlements, but only along Israel's internationally recognized borders and only in exchange for an equivalent amount of territory currently part of Israel that would be granted to the new Palestinian state. According to public opinion polls, the majority of Americans-including a majority of American Jews-support this approach over the Bush-backed Sharon so overwhelming endorsed by Congress. The resolution does not even make mention of the once highly-touted road map for Israeli-Palestinian peace that the United States drew up with representatives of Russia, the European Union, and the United Nations. The road map demanded that any growth in the settlements be frozen and that the remaining outstanding issues, such as borders and the status of Palestinian refugees be left for negotiations between the two parties. Congressman Pete Stark of California, one of the nine dissenters, observed how the resolution did not call on both Israelis and Palestinians to work together to find a peaceful solution to this conflict, correctly observing that all parties in the process must work together, something the resolution notably omitted. Minority leader Nancy Pelosi and Deputy minority leader Steny Hoyer (who was a cosponsor of the DeLay resolution) refused to place a resolution cosponsored by Stark (H.R. 479), which applauds Israelis and Palestinians who are working together to conceive pragmatic, serious plans for achieving peace and encourages both Israeli and Palestinian leaders to capitalize on the opportunity offered by these peace initiatives. According to Israeli press reports, Sharon brought four separate disengagement plans to Washington requiring various degrees of Israeli withdrawal, but President Bush ended up endorsing the one which allowed Israel to annex the largest amount of Palestinian territory. Now, much to the chagrin of progressive and moderate Israelis, Congress has also chosen to throw its weight behind the most right-wing of the four proposals. Most observers-including leading Israeli military and intelligence officials-recognize that by leaving the Palestinians with little hope of achieving a viable state through negotiations, this will only swell the ranks of extremist Palestinian groups and produce more terrorism. Congress has rejected this analysis, however, insisting that Sharon's land grab will somehow enhance the security of Israel and advance the cause of peace in the Middle East. The resolution calls for
[biofuel] Seymour Hersh - Plan B: Israel Backs Iraqi Kurds
http://newyorker.com/fact/content/?040628fa_fact The New Yorker: Fact Plan B By Seymour M. Hersh As June 30th approaches, Israel looks to the Kurds. Issue of 2004-06-28 Posted 2004-06-21 In July, 2003, two months after President Bush declared victory in Iraq, the war, far from winding down, reached a critical point. Israel, which had been among the war's most enthusiastic supporters, began warning the Administration that the American-led occupation would face a heightened insurgency-a campaign of bombings and assassinations-later that summer. Israeli intelligence assets in Iraq were reporting that the insurgents had the support of Iranian intelligence operatives and other foreign fighters, who were crossing the unprotected border between Iran and Iraq at will. The Israelis urged the United States to seal the nine-hundred-mile-long border, at whatever cost. The border stayed open, however. The Administration wasn't ignoring the Israeli intelligence about Iran, Patrick Clawson, who is the deputy director of the Washington Institute for Near East Policy and has close ties to the White House, explained. There's no question that we took no steps last summer to close the border, but our attitude was that it was more useful for Iraqis to have contacts with ordinary Iranians coming across the border, and thousands were coming across every day-for instance, to make pilgrimages. He added, The questions we confronted were 'Is the trade-off worth it? Do we want to isolate the Iraqis?' Our answer was that as long as the Iranians were not picking up guns and shooting at us, it was worth the price. Clawson said, The Israelis disagreed quite vigorously with us last summer. Their concern was very straightforward-that the Iranians would create social and charity organizations in Iraq and use them to recruit people who would engage in armed attacks against Americans. The warnings of increased violence proved accurate. By early August, the insurgency against the occupation had exploded, with bombings in Baghdad, at the Jordanian Embassy and the United Nations headquarters, that killed forty-two people. A former Israeli intelligence officer said that Israel's leadership had concluded by then that the United States was unwilling to confront Iran; in terms of salvaging the situation in Iraq, he said, it doesn't add up. It's over. Not militarily-the United States cannot be defeated militarily in Iraq-but politically. Flynt Leverett, a former C.I.A. analyst who until last year served on the National Security Council and is now a fellow at the Saban Center for Middle East Policy, told me that late last summer the Administration had a chance to turn it around after it was clear that 'Mission Accomplished'-a reference to Bush's May speech-was premature. The Bush people could have gone to their allies and got more boots on the ground. But the neocons were dug in-'We're doing this on our own.' Leverett went on, The President was only belatedly coming to the understanding that he had to either make a strategic change or, if he was going to insist on unilateral control, get tougher and find the actual insurgency. The Administration then decided, Leverett said, to deploy the Guantnamo model in Iraq-to put aside its rules of interrogation. That decision failed to stop the insurgency and eventually led to the scandal at the Abu Ghraib prison. In early November, the President received a grim assessment from the C.I.A.'s station chief in Baghdad, who filed a special field appraisal, known internally as an Aardwolf, warning that the security situation in Iraq was nearing collapse. The document, as described by Knight-Ridder, said that none of the postwar Iraqi political institutions and leaders have shown an ability to govern the country or to hold elections and draft a constitution. A few days later, the Administration, rattled by the violence and the new intelligence, finally attempted to change its go-it-alone policy, and set June 30th as the date for the handover of sovereignty to an interim government, which would allow it to bring the United Nations into the process. November was one year before the Presidential election, a U.N. consultant who worked on Iraqi issues told me. They panicked and decided to share the blame with the U.N. and the Iraqis. A former Administration official who had supported the war completed a discouraging tour of Iraq late last fall. He visited Tel Aviv afterward and found that the Israelis he met with were equally discouraged. As they saw it, their warnings and advice had been ignored, and the American war against the insurgency was continuing to founder. I spent hours talking to the senior members of the Israeli political and intelligence community, the former official recalled. Their concern was 'You're not going to get it right in Iraq, and shouldn't we be planning for the worst-case scenario and how to deal with it?' Ehud
Re: [biofuel] 'Fahrenheit 9/11' ban?
Extremely unlikely. They are using the corporate sponsor thing to try and get adverts banned. I believe there is mention of a similar situation in the past where adverts for non-election related items that involved candidates were allowed. ALthough they did also make networks halt the playing of Arnold Swartzenager movies in California during their re-elections. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Fahrenheit 9/11
I understand the fact that this is propeganda. But, being that it is controversial, and that it does have some flaws, there is a very good reason to have public discussion about/against/for it. The man is deliberately trying to sway the vote to get Bush out of office with this movie. And given the loose interpertation of fact and the fact that people are taking it as a documentary, I think there is very good reason for public outcry against it. Sorry to make the comparison, but, I would speak out against Nazi progapaganda if I thought that it was not well supported, and in that case even if it was well supported. Just because it is made as propaganda does not mean it shouldn't be argued against. In fact, given its nature, it should be focused on and made clear to everyone that it is not documentarial. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Congress Overwhelmingly Endorses Ariel Sharon's Annexation Plans
Any way we can set up a second mail list so the biofuel list can be for biofuel? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Fahrenheit 9/11
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In his documentary about how bad GM is for closing the Flint plant, he shows evictions and people getting kicked out onto the street. It's no result of the GM closing, the person didn't work for GM but it made a good picture for his point. Do you have any references for this? I don't remember the scene in Roger and Me that you refer to, but I do believe that if the person didn't work for GM, the film wouldn't have represented him as working for GM. And, if he in fact didn't work for GM, in a town that the unemployment rate suddenly shoots to 50%, a lot of people that don't work for the main employer in town also lose their jobs. They might not have been let go by that employer, but the loss of their job is a direct result of that employer's actions none the less. Again, I don't remember the specific scene you are talking about, but since you make only conjecture it is impossible to know exactly how to respond. In Bowling for Columbine he references a little 6 year old who got hold of a gun and killed someone or maybe even himself. It was evidence though of how guns should be out of every home. I do remember this scene. He was referring to a 6 year old in Michigan, who got a hold of a gun that was in the house and killed one of his classmates. He was inadequately supervised while his mother was being bussed 45 miles away for her minimum wage job. If I remember correctly, she worked two minimum wage jobs back to back before getting back on the bus back home. Not exactly the crack head that you make her out to be. And, the film never said that guns should be out of every home. Moore pointed out his membership in the NRA and his own gun ownership in the film. He was promoting responsible gun ownership. A pretty moderate stand, in my opinion. As for misrepresentations and half truths, I see more in your post than all of the Moore films I have seen so far. Brian Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Re: Fahrenheit 9/11
Mr. Sanborn, I think you are quite right to defend your point of view, I for one believe in free speech, and call for proof. losing jobs is never any one's fault, no matter why! AND IF WE HAVE TO, attacking nations, or killing soldiers, we should do it -if they didn't expect to die why did they put on a uniform . If Sadamm had been a benevolent despot and made his deals with the US he'd still be here; Its our right to call the shots and decide who lives and who dies, me , bechtel and bin Laden, a father of 56. There is always one rotten one in the barrel. They started it. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Jun 28, 2004 1:59 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Re: Fahrenheit 9/11 I'm curious as to what FoxNews has to do wtih anything. It seems to me that your implying that I am dangerously republican, unfortunately, you couldn't be more wrong. I don't emphatecally support Bush, and I don't punch the republican hole on the ballot without knowing who I'm voting for. I am actually an independent and I tend to vote for people who are quite moderate. I think Bush did make a number of mistakes and I would like nothing more than to see Edwards become President. So I have no neo-conservative bias. My problem is that Moore doesn't make good arguements. Moore shows pictures and tells stories but concludes very little. He implies many things and leaves it to the audience to decide. He doesn't leave many options to pick from, but at least they buy into his theories without him blatantly spitting out falsities. In his documentary about how bad GM is for closing the Flint plant, he shows evictions and people getting kicked out onto the street. It's no result of the GM closing, the person didn't work for GM but it made a good picture for his point. In Bowling for Columbine he references a little 6 year old who got hold of a gun and killed someone or maybe even himself. It was evidence though of how guns should be out of every home. Irregardless of the fact that the gun probably would have been illegally in the crack house where the kid lived and was abused. Its good upstanding households like that that are good and accurate reference material. His references to the Bush families connections to Osama are out of place a well. The connections to the Bin Laden family are quite public. The Bin Ladens have tons of connections in America, they're rich, so are the Bush's, guess what, the rich get rich and stay rich by making connections with other people that are rich. I don't think the Bush family planned terrorist attacks to use as reasons for war and then exploit them for money. I think there is something curious about the war in Iraq, but I also think Saddam should have been taken out in the Gulf War. Of course there is the best part with the mother weeping for her son. Thats footage that needs to be shown. Of course it should always be followed by a bunch of American's killing all those civillians. This is of course irregardless of the fact that almost 70% of Iraqi's are happy that Saddam is now out of power and that the casualty rate for US troops is really quite low for such a large scale head on assault. The Coalition has lost about 1000 troops in Iraq, as opposed to the 58,000 who died in Vietnam. I'd say there is a significant improvement. But, we couldn't mention that there. We also strategically ignore the precision capabilities of the weapons used as well. A large number of civilians died in Iraq during the war and occupation. I'm wiling to bet that a very large portion of those deaths were not inflicted by Americans though. The car bombs, etc tend to take more Iraqis than Americans. So all in all Moore does a real fine job of showing a twisted side of reality. The movie was a twist of truth, and I don't think he even tries to show his point. Rather he shows what he thinks will sway people against Bush. Whether you like Bush or not, this is not an accurate portrayal of anything other than Michael Moore's hatred for George W. Bush. Randall Sanborn [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to:
Re: [biofuel] Congress Overwhelmingly Endorses Ariel Sharon's Annexation Plans
Any way we can set up a second mail list so the biofuel list can be for biofuel? Well now Randall. You sure don't understand much, nor comprehend much. For instance, your response to Heath: I'm curious as to what FoxNews has to do wtih anything. It seems to me that your implying that I am dangerously republican, unfortunately, you couldn't be more wrong. He was implying you're dangerously misinformed. I'd say under-informed, and this post seems to prove it. Similarly, in your response to Sam you didn't comprehend what he'd said about propaganda - you disregarded the point that propaganda is not inherently false, stuck to your own preconception of it, ignored what he'd said about it being an op-ed movie, and as a result your response was nonsensical. From your response to the 'Fahrenheit 9/11' ban? piece it's hard to believe you actually read it. As Dermot said, it's all mere assertion from you, and it's not enough. More and more people are questioning your assertions, finding them wanting, asking you for references to support them, but all they get is more assertions. It's all you've got to offer, isn't it? You just don't know what to do when it turns out they're wrong. Never happened to you before? Not used to being questioned? And so to this, Congress Overwhelmingly Endorses Ariel Sharon's Annexation Plans. A couple of points. First, it was one of three posts that were obviously related. One of them concerned an oil pipeline. Oil, oil, oil, yeah. The other two posts, including this one you're objecting to, fill out the context of that particular bit of much coveted oil supply, and several others too. This one ends: ... effectively recognizing the right of conquest. Which would confer rightful ownership of a largish chunk of oil-rich real estate in Iraq on just whom? So you don't think it has anything to do with biofuel, eh? And that it shouldn't be allowed here and should be sent to another list? You've been here nearly a month Randall, and during that time the subject of allegedly off-topic posts that have nothing to do with biofuels has come up several times, and has been much discussed in quite a few posts, right up to now - it's a current issue here. For instance this one - you don't seem to bother to read links when people provide them, but read this one: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/35681/ Read these too, the whole thread, just to see how hopelessly out of line you are - current messages: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/36185/1/ For instance: I do agree that politics and biofuels are intertwined enough to make the discussion of all aspects of each appropriate to this list... - that's the consensus here, and long has been. And all this has gone right over your head? Actually it wouldn't surprise me much - from your responses in the Fahrenheit 9/11 thread it'd about match the amount of attention you seem to pay generally. On the other hand, if it has gone right over your head, then why are you complaining about this post? You could have let it go right over your head too, without losing any sleep over it, no? So what do you expect me to do about this? Are you going to plead ignorance of what the message reffed above said, what many others have also said, though you certainly received them? ... it's a *Biofuel* list, not just a biodiesel list or something - all energy issues are relevant to biofuels discussions. That is a long-established tradition of this list, much discussed and endorsed by the majority of the list membership... So the discussion here is open. And there are two rules about that: NO TOPIC COPS. NO CALLS FOR RESTRICTED DISCUSSION. It's my job to enforce those rules, which I do. You get one warning, this is it. You've had more than one warning but you post this, do you really expect another one? Or are you just being defiant because the whole list is against you? Your move - and you have to make one, ignoring it won't be acceptable. Keith Addison List owner Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Fahrenheit 9/11
Professional Critics Nationwide Applaud Fahrenheit 9/11 Friday June 25, 11:05 am ET http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/040625/sff013_1.html Controversial Picture Earns Rotten Tomatoes' Certified Fresh Rating EMERYVILLE, Calif., June 25 /PRNewswire/ -- Rotten Tomatoes(SM), the most trusted source for gauging the critical reaction for movies, has officially declared Michael Moore's new documentary Fahrenheit 9/11 to be Certified Fresh, based on the overwhelmingly positive ratings of professional film critics nationwide. The high quality certification for a documentary is unprecedented. Certified Fresh recognizes and celebrates the best reviewed entertainment products based on the opinions of nearly 700 professional film critics. Movies must receive the approval of at least 75% of the critics reviewing the film in order to be Certified Fresh. Since launching the accolade earlier this year, only seven wide release films have achieved the rating. This weekend Fahrenheit 9/11 becomes only the seventh wide release film to reach this pinnacle, and becomes the first wide-release documentary to be Certified Fresh by Rotten Tomatoes. Rotten Tomatoes congratulates Lion's Gate Entertainment and Michael Moore on this achievement, Patrick Lee, Rotten Tomatoes' CEO. About Rotten Tomatoes Rotten Tomatoes, a premier online destination for casual movie-goers, film buffs, and industry insiders alike, delivers the most comprehensive information on the critical reaction. Voted the best movie review site in Time Magazine's online feature, The 50 Best Web Sites in 2003, Rotten Tomatoes has received glowing accolades from the Chicago Sun-Times, The New Yorker, USA Today, and many other respected publications. With information on more than one hundred thousand movies and half a million reviews, the website offers a full range of services, features, and community for its users, including the ability to quickly and easily create socially networked online journals. With the opinions of nearly 700 accredited film critics analyzed each week, Rotten Tomatoes is the most comprehensive and trusted source for reporting on the critical reaction. The award-winning Tomatometer rating system harnesses the power of written criticism by providing a capsule summary of the diverse opinions of the community of professional film critics. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Pork tallow biodiesel?
Adam, Yes. Easily. We rendered the remains of two hogs from a neighbor's kill last year for dog food. The lard was converted to biodiesel which has a cloud point considerably lower than deer or beef tallow. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Bondwell International [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2004 10:34 PM Subject: [biofuel] Pork tallow biodiesel? [Edited to change title and remove 12kb of irrelevant previous messages - KA] Can anyone advise if pork tallow can be convert to biodiesel? Adam Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Choices?? What choices?? Was: Fahrenheit 9/11
My my my .. This debate EPITOMIZES . exactly the problem I feel this country has. No more does it contain any remnant of (American) Republicans nor (American style) Democrats. Those two ideologics are HISTORY. Now, we only have BUSH ... who in my opinion ... is NOT a conservative ... nor a Republican. But a (Hitler) FASCIST. ...And the ANTI-Bush who in my opinion all-along ... are (USSR) SOCIALISTS. What a choice in November! Vote President Hitler or President Soviet! BTW, the comment about the Corporate Tax Structure rewarding the eliminating of American Jobs is not quite correct. More correctly, it penalizes the use of American Jobs.And the Corporation of course ... the job still has to get done . searches around and finds that foreign labor . SH nothing gets spoken about it. So foreign labor becomes a way to do the job without getting penalized.I would like to add unfortunately. Very, VERY ... unfortunately. Curtis Corporation Bean Counter Nothing says I love you like a bouquet of flowers! http://www.flowerson55.com - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] But. what would you expect from a Social Democrat like Moore, just another variation on the National Socialist Workers Party line and a parroting of their leader. :-) Well now, there's the Socialist Workers Party, the Socialist Party USA, the National Socialist Japanese Workers Party, the Iran National-Socialist Workers Party and so on, but what exactly is the National Socialist Workers Party? -message truncated-- - Original Message - From: William Dwyer [EMAIL PROTECTED] While emphatically disagreeing with the heckler's destructive non-solution, Michael Moore had to unfortunately conclude that economic recovery for the City of Flint, Michigan won't become reality in the foreseeable future as long as the corporate tax structure continues to reward industry for eliminating American jobs in favor of cheaper foreign labor. -snip- During his Military service in the European and African theatres of World War II, General Dwight D. Eisenhower saw firsthand the hideous consequences of the merger of corporate influence (including the influence of members of the Bush family dating back to their Civil War era railroad interests) and military force. -snip- Benito Mussolini said, Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power. The Bush administration has removed the velvet glove from the iron fist and slapped it across the face of the average American in a brazen challenge of the ultimate authority We the People exercise at the ballot box. Furthermore, they have deliberately and premeditatively manipulated America's economy in a concerted effort to limit employment options, toward the ultimate goal of making cannon fodder an attractive job title for many able-bodied Americans. As Abraham Lincoln, another Republican President, indeed the very first member of the Grand Old Party that has become a Greedy Oil Party to claim the title, once said, Ballots are the rightful and peaceful successor to bullets. Michael Moore is a true visionary leader in the fight to preserve and defend the benefits of liberty and democracy for the American proletariat from America's increasingly greedy, bloodthirsty, and fascist bourgeoisie. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
