[Biofuel] Just getting started also
Dear friendly fuelers: After making two test batches I with virgin oil, I am ready to try some WVO, and thanks to this list, tear the screen off the inside of my 300TD fuel tank. A local testing lab owner who is sympathetic and interested offered to help if I need it. Ironically, his professional group was just asked if they can test methyl esters for glycerine! For Biodiesel! He didn't tell me who wants it, but it made him think of me. So he came to my shop and bought a sandwich. I need help with two things: Where does one find pure isopropyl for titration? Is there anyone in the midlands of SC who wants to split a 55 gallon drum of Methanol from the local racing shop? ($130 + shipping from NC). Thanks for the wealth of info in both the JtF website and archives. Chris Kueny Cayce, SC ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] Could this be an idea ?
Hi all. Some days ago I wrote about a failure batch (water and / or soap in it). I have been reading about making soap and found that when soap is made, sometimes they boil the fresh soap with a saturated NaCl solution, which separates the soap from the rest (what rest ? I don't know). I tried to boil a sample of BD with a solution as said and so far the BD looks to become some clearer. Does anyone know if this salt would solube (or solve ? How does one say that ?) in the BD ? I can imagion that this would not be very pleasant for the fuelsystem of the engine. By the way, I have tried it with different amounts of water with salt, varying from just salt and no water, to the same amount of water as BD, with the maximum amount of salt solved in it. If wanted, I'll keep you informed. Met vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole Netherlands ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Born Again: Help Portland, Oregon
Hey scott, Hey scott, I feel your pain ive been on the path of starting up myself. With regards to getting reaction vessels id stick to the metal ones. I myself just bought a welder and am fortunate enough to have a small supply of 55gal barrels and lots of good plastic containers to get started. I haven't found any metal reactors that are anywhere near cheap. I was sick and tired of just thinking how much I would have to spend on one though a company so I figured I could make one myself. The welder is the most expensive item if your gonna DIY but if u want to do things on a larger scale it will probably save u money in the long run. I have the ability to make some extra reactors then I need, and I was thinking of putting them on ebay or something but wasn't sure anyone would want one. I might do that if there is enough interest. With regards to the methanol I think you will find varying cooperation form each company. I found some that didn't want to waste there time with me but others were very eager for my business. It would probably help if you could get under some kind of a small business/company name then companies take you more serious. Lab equipment suppliers might know someone who would sell in smaller quantities but if not just keep looking. Best of Luck, Theo C Well, if anyone can help get me going, I'm all ears ... meanwhile, I'm still looking for good components for a system that will produce 4K gal per year: personal plus one other family. Here's what I've found: Supplier of relatively affordable cone-bottom plastic vessels: Wilbur-Ellis (Ag), Albany, Oregon (800)982-1099 30 gal $90 65 gal $180 100 gal $295 Stands $150 Pumps: Looking for air-powered diaphragm pumps ... for a whole lot less than $500+ (Grainger). There's got to be something cheap that will take the motor out of the equation. Any suggestions where to look? Appointment with Restaurant owner today: I'm not ready to handle their waste yet. I'll just ask them what they need to make life easier. How else can I grease the wheels and make this sustainable for the long-haul. Buckets, barrels, dump-station, whatever they need: my attitude is to help them. Does this mean I should be willing to take garbage? What is reasonable to ask them? To pour-off their WVO separately? Doubt it. Get what you get, beggar, patties, fries, spatulas, the works. Be a renderer? I'll find-out, the hard way. Methanol supply elludes me: Email contacts simply aren't working ... drum level orders are too small amount, apparently. Anybody out there? ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] RE: Re: biodiesel business plan
helped me with the factual side of biodiesel, not the business side. I NEED TO FIND OUT WHAT IT TAKES TO START A BIODIESEL REFINERY. However, I recently spoke with a woman at the CICCA that helped get me some contact info of some local co-ops that supply it and deliver it to my university and others in the area. If anyone has any info on BIODIESEL START-UPS, let me know Thanks, Evan ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: Pickup arrangementsand marketing language [Biofuel] Born Again: Help Portland, Oregon
I think the pickup arrangement should be consistent with the local industry. You are offering them a chance to do well by doing good. You cannot pickup all of the local used cooking oil so it doesn't make sense for you to do it for free. A small price break can often help people Be the change they want to see in the world Ghandi but I wouldn't jump to free right off the bat. They may have a real concern that you'll be out of business in 3 months (of course picking up for free will probably reinforce that possibility). Tell them you'll do it for free for two months or so. Once you've proven to them that you're dependable and they like your service you'll start charging them exactly what they are paying now. If you do it for free you will be working under tighter financial constraints than if you got paid to pickup. Remember you are one service provider to this restaurant that has many and yours is probably the smallest bill they bay every month. You will get about 50 gallons/month from each restaurant. Calculate how many restaurants you'll need to sign up and figure out how much of a difference a small change in fees will make to them and will make to your bottom line. Set your price accordingly. Actually good restaurants filter their oil every night. So having them filter the oil before giving it to you wont change their practices very much. If they aren't filtering now let them know that their food will taste better an the oil will last longer if they start filtering every night. Here's a marketing script we've worked on. Intro: Hi I'm with ... We're a new company picking up used cooking oil and we've created an entirely new oil pickup service that we guarantee you is better than your existing oil service. Our new service converts your oil into a renewable energy product that greatly reduces our demand on foreign oil and is much better for the environment. We are calling to invite you to participate. Q: What do the other guys do with the oil? Mostly low grade animal feed or land fill, traditional rendering operations is in fact the second largest source of air pollution in Hunters Point (California) Q: Who is are you? We are a locally owned and operated regional alternative energy collaborative. By recycling your waste restaurant fryer oil through the production of Biodiesel we provide a viable fuel alternative to the finite and environmentally-destructive petroleum-based fuel energies. Q: How long have you been in business? 3 years. Q. What other restaurants are you working with? (get your referral list in place as soon as possible). The California Culinary Academy, Izzy's Steaks and Chops No's 1 (Marina, S.F.), 2(Corte Madera), 3 (San Carlos), and Habana (Van Ness, S.F.), (Sam Duval). Che Pa Pa and Chez Ma Ma in Portero Hill, Le Suite on Embarcadero and Ola's run by Ola Fendert Bills Place and Ernesto's in the Richmond. Q: Well if you're selling your product you should take mine for free. Your existing hauler is also using your product to make a sellable product. BD currently sells for about $1 more than of petroleum diesel prices due to the manufacturing and overhead costs. In order to make biodiesel we have to do quite a bit more to the oil than the renders do. Theo Chadzichristos wrote: Hey scott, Hey scott, I feel your pain ive been on the path of starting up myself. With regar ds to getting reaction vessels id stick to the metal ones. I myself just bought a welder and am fortunate enough to have a small supply of 55gal barrels and lots of good plastic containers to get started. I haven't found any metal reactors that are anywhere near cheap. I was sick and tired of just thinking how much I would have to spend on one though a company so I figured I could make one myself. The welder is the most expensive item if your gonna DIY but if u want to do things on a larger scale it will probably save u money in the long run. I have the ability to make some extra reactors then I need, and I was thinking of putting them on ebay or something but wasn't sure anyone would want one. I might do that if there is enough interest. With regards to the methanol I think you will find varying cooperation form each company. I found some that didn't want to waste there time with me but others were very eager for my business. It would probably help if you could get under some kind of a small business/company name then companies take you more serious. Lab equipment suppliers might know someone who would sell in smaller quantities but if not just keep looking. Best of Luck, Theo C Well, if anyone can help get me going, I'm all ears ... meanwhile, I'm still looking for good components for a system that will produce 4K gal per year: personal plus one other family. Here's what I've found: Supplier of relatively
[Biofuel] Methanol and NUTS in Portland
consider somebody selling cone-bottom barrels on Ebay. I read a great JTF article on how to make them ... I have two college degrees, and realized I couldn't make one, nor could I instruct my farmer father-in-law on how to do it ... we'd both be grinding till the cows-come-home, and we don't have those ... just nuts and weaner pigs. On Tue, 1 Mar 2005 23:43:05 -0600, Theo Chadzichristos [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have the ability to make some extra reactors then I need, and I was thinking of putting them on ebay or something but wasn't sure anyone would want one. I might do that if there is enough interest. I'd be interested. Shoot, why isn't there a BIODIESEL parts warehouse. You GUYS have put together nice systems, you have the experience, and it looks like you want to change the world. CHANGE IT ONE BIOFUELMAKER AT A TIME. MAKE IT EASY FOR THEM. MAKE IT A HOUSEHOLD ITEM. Small farmers around here would snap them up, if it was easy for them. My dad spends tons of time fabricating/fixing his own farm machinery to bring in the crop. Cab sheilds, drags, plows, discs, blowers and pickers to name a few implements... they barely have enough time to keep their operation going, and no-way time to make a reactor. They'd make time to order oil, order methanol, dump it in and flip some switches, fill-up in the morning, and they'd even make time to wash, settle and filter, because they delight in INDEPENDENCE. Make it as easy as making home-made ice-cream. They are accustomed to buying equipment. AG-SHOWS ... I've not been in two years, but I'll bet systems will be showing-up there. Maybe I ought to be a distributor when I grow-up. I'm going to talk to people that are making systems. They're on to something. Someone said to stay away from these systems ... why? They're way overpriced, but what else is wrong with plastic reactors? I talked to a stainless tank maker today ... $3,000 for a 100gal cone-bottom ... manufactured right here in Canby, Oregon. Think I'll wait for more cows. NUTS, speaking of them: does anybody know if Filberts / Hazelnuts would make the right kind of oil. I'm seeing they have 50% content. We occassionally get throw-outs from processing plants ... 800-1000lb totes ... might make 400-500lbs of oil ... how many gals is that ... divide 7.85? ... about 60 gals occassionally. Is it worth looking into pressing that small amount? Grind first? I've got (20) 5 gal buckets of filbert paste ... yum, packed in their own oil, some in sunflower oil. It's for pigs now, (not for human consumption), but the pigs just say NO to all the oil. Since these buckets have been sitting a year plus now, I've got good butter/oil separation, a good third to half-bucket ... but is Hazelnut oil any good? Anybody give me the GO/NO-GO. With regards to the methanol I think you will find varying cooperation form each company. I found some that didn't want to waste there time with me but others were very eager for my business. It would probably help if you could get under some kind of a small business/company name then companies take you more serious. Lab equipment suppliers might know someone who would sell in smaller quantities but if not just keep looking. METHANOL: I've been on the phone all day ... raceways, and drag strips ... I LIKE THESE GUYS ... come and get it $4.00/gal ... small quantites or by barrel. Miller Paint went to work for me and gave me three excellent sources they use ... all of them panned-out too. I got a glimmer of hope in being able to believe MAN'S word again. Best I can find is $3.54/gal ... I can see this hunt will be a routine and constant in making BD. BUT, Theo, you're right, these companies want to see legitimate business. One company salesman is sending someone to our farm to make sure we're a farm. I said, I don't have a set-up yet, I don't have a company name yet, I'm checking FEASIBILITY ... but come on-out. He said, it's a LIABILITY-thing for us. I don't want to see our barrel label on the NEWS ... ... GULP SOMEONE please tell me what these guys are looking for ... they're going to find barns, pigs, tractors, and lot's of Hazelnut trees. I DON'T want to be on a radar screen ... sheesh ... can someone please tell me about MeOH in the US. IS IT LAWFUL TO OWN? assume yes ... IS IT A CONTROLLED SUBSTANCE? assume no ... ARE WE NOT ALLOWED TO TRANSPORT IT? ... race guys don't ... it must be a no-no AM I RIGHT TO ASK TO HAVE IT BARREL DELIVERED? ... assume absolutely ... OK TO SIGN A COMPANY WAIVER, POISON MYSELF, AND/OR BURN THE FARM DOWN? ... assume sure, I'm free to do just that and there is no chemical-co liability ... these guys are digging for something else. -- End of Message Scott McFarland -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database:
Re: [Biofuel] Born Again: Help Portland, Oregon
Hi Scott, I am also here in the Portland area, but unfortunately haven't had time to actually do anything with biodiesel yet. I just have too many projects that are ahead of it in the queue. But I have researched it a bit and chatted with some people here who ARE doing it. I've run into them at Earth Day type stuff. Here's a good link for local happenings: http://www.gobiodiesel.com/tiki-index.php They meet a couple times a week to chat and plan. They welcome newcomers and would be the most helpful for things in this area, I would think. I haven't made it to any of the meetings yet. Good luck, and please keep us informed of whatever you find out. It will be most helpful to those of us in the area. Thank you, Erik On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 15:05:40 -0800, Scott McFarland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Are there any bio-fuelers in the Portland area that are willing to talk with me? Offline? We live on a small farm (120 acre, hazelnuts), heat with oil and run diesel vehicles and can easily consume 2-3Kgal per year. Extended family farms consume more. I'm a self-employed software maker helping that extended family seasonally, (I'm not a farmer, just an in-law...) so my TINKER time alternates between VAST quantities (my RD time) to virtually none (coding time). At this point, I've spent a couple weeks reading JTF articles, the procedures, the processors, and skimmed the (diverse) messages on mail-list ... (didn't know it would throw me into seeing your discussions on RELIGION and POLITICS ... I see why, though). Something has clicked in me after all the reading ... THERE IS NO RETURN . I take my kids to school and look at local pump prices of $2.47 ... this morning at $2.69 . I JUST GET ANGRY, knowing there has to be a better way, knowing fuel can be made, knowing with some effort on my part I don't have to be AS dependent. I feel like I've been lied to, betrayed, and I'm just waking-up. NOW, this whole alternate fuel idea is becoming an obsession for me and I need/want to be productive (it's a sanity thing). Is there anyone near Portland that can talk with me to prove this process makes sense, financially, in our local area? Here's my wish list of questions that need answers: - A good, (safe, visible/understandable, scalable) system: I'm just not able to tinker and make it work ... I need a recipe of quality components that will work together to make a: 50-100 gal system to handle weekly supply of render Cone-bottom is important to get out the glycerin ASAP, even during 1st stage, right? I don't have time or means to weld. Where to get affordable plastic vessels? Is anybody selling cone-bottom steel drums that can be coated? Dare I ask what 100-200 gal stainless cones cost? (Breweries?) Mixing: so many ways to go ... why not pneumatic pump/diaphragm??? Safe but costly? Washing: use same pneumatic system for bubble-wash ? Buy a system: $3K to $4K OUCH (poor) ... take about a year to break-even? Justify by producing for others (6 mos)? Just buy good components? - Chemical resources: Sheesh: How do you ask for methanol without getting black-listed ...? I get the impression from methanol suppliers that this process is a NO-NO ie. ChemCentral will deliver monthly 1-2 barrels $3.54/gal BUT NOT FOR FUEL ... why? specs? what? is this illegal? good grief. Where to get good, affordable methanol? Is the future of BD in making your own ETHANOL, sieve to anhydrous? - WVO: an hour of calling to find this is do-able: One restaurant ready to give 10 gal/week (4 or 5 more to go) Questions on making this sustainable. Safeway: NOPE! They have a 100 gal/week iron-clad corporate contract: national renderer (Darling) ... other big-chains sure to have same Portland rendering sells/exports 55 gal drums of yellow-lard $0.14-0.16 / lb that makes it $1.10 gal ... add $0.70 for 20% volume methanol plus catalyst and energy costs to process and the margin narrows quickly ... am I missing something? ... other than principles ... Business Feasibility: (just try to be productive) ASSUMPTION: clients motivated to buy if save $0.50 / gal off pump prices. GIVEN: Local pump price $2.40 Sell for $1.90 / gal Costs $0.70 / gal from WVO (doubtful: MeOH cost + 25% recovery) Profit $1.20 / gal ASSUMPTION: $100,000 income
RE: [Biofuel] RE: Re: biodiesel business plan
This might help www.nrel.gov/docs/fy04osti/36242.pdf www.nrel.gov/docs/fy04osti/36244.pdf b regards Armando A.C. Rodrigues Av Francisco O. Magumbwe, 149 C.P 3279 Maputo 2 Maputo - Moambique e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Mensagem original- De: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] nome de Evan Gady Enviada: quarta-feira, 2 de Maro de 2005 8:43 Para: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Assunto: [Biofuel] RE: Re: biodiesel business plan Phillip - I have received some responses, but mainly those companies have helped me with the factual side of biodiesel, not the business side. I NEED TO FIND OUT WHAT IT TAKES TO START A BIODIESEL REFINERY. However, I recently spoke with a woman at the CICCA that helped get me some contact info of some local co-ops that supply it and deliver it to my university and others in the area. If anyone has any info on BIODIESEL START-UPS, let me know Thanks, Evan ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] RE: Re: biodiesel business plan
have helped me with the factual side of biodiesel, not the business side. I NEED TO FIND OUT WHAT IT TAKES TO START A BIODIESEL REFINERY. However, I recently spoke with a woman at the CICCA that helped get me some contact info of some local co-ops that supply it and deliver it to my university and others in the area. If anyone has any info on BIODIESEL START-UPS, let me know Thanks, Evan The archives has tons of information on it. You have some reading to do: Start here, for the official side of it: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/34331/ Then try a search here for co-ops: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Information Archive at NNYTech Best wishes Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Methanol and NUTS in Portland
See below... Ebay: thanks Theo, forgot about them. Why not ... starting out, I'd consider somebody selling cone-bottom barrels on Ebay. I read a great JTF article on how to make them ... I have two college degrees, and realized I couldn't make one, nor could I instruct my farmer father-in-law on how to do it ... we'd both be grinding till the cows-come-home, and we don't have those ... just nuts and weaner pigs. On Tue, 1 Mar 2005 23:43:05 -0600, Theo Chadzichristos [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have the ability to make some extra reactors then I need, and I was thinking of putting them on ebay or something but wasn't sure anyone would want one. I might do that if there is enough interest. I'd be interested. Shoot, why isn't there a BIODIESEL parts warehouse. You GUYS have put together nice systems, you have the experience, and it looks like you want to change the world. CHANGE IT ONE BIOFUELMAKER AT A TIME. MAKE IT EASY FOR THEM. MAKE IT A HOUSEHOLD ITEM. Umm, like an automatic washing-machine? We've been through all that here before, more than once. Small farmers around here would snap them up, if it was easy for them. My dad spends tons of time fabricating/fixing his own farm machinery to bring in the crop. Cab sheilds, drags, plows, discs, blowers and pickers to name a few implements... they barely have enough time to keep their operation going, and no-way time to make a reactor. They'd make time to order oil, order methanol, dump it in and flip some switches, fill-up in the morning, and they'd even make time to wash, settle and filter, because they delight in INDEPENDENCE. Independent as long as they're dependent on a host of ready-mades? Hmm... Make it as easy as making home-made ice-cream. They are accustomed to buying equipment. AG-SHOWS ... I've not been in two years, but I'll bet systems will be showing-up there. Maybe I ought to be a distributor when I grow-up. I'm going to talk to people that are making systems. They're on to something. Someone said to stay away from these systems ... why? They're way overpriced, but what else is wrong with plastic reactors? Maybe nothing, more like lots. This, for instance, from another message (be sure to check the archives link): I've fixed on the Fuel Meister from Biodiesel Solutions as a quick and easy way to get started. I'm curious if you are familiar with the unit and can provide me with any specific issues that need to be addressed or people that have used one. A couple friends and I are considering buying one for a coop arrangement. A small group of us would pool our resources to buy and manage the unit for our personal use. It seems like a simple and reliable way to produce the fuel. The consensus is that it's overpriced junk. It was primarily the FuelMeister that our criticisms of cone-bottom plastic processors were directed at - all those no-no's apply to the FuelMeister. User reports that we've had show that they produce poor-quality fuel that will not meet standard requirements. Somebody sent me this today, just returned from a trip (this is a very experienced person): ... and I saw a FuelMeister up close for the first time. It's really amazing how badly built it is. Exceeded my worst expectations. Todd is right about $15 worth of plumbing. I also got a copy of the biodiesel instructions that they hand out in workshops, and there's a 'smell test' in there - smell your unwashed biodiesel and if it smells strongly of methanol reduce by 2%, but not to any lower than 12%. They're dragging us back into the Dark Ages again. That view is widely confirmed, sad to say. There've been several discussions of it at the Biofuel mailing list. You can read them here: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/?keywords=fuelmeistertime=all; usertime=2002-12-31 Spend a bit of time, do yourself a favour. If you hit the Click here for more on this subject button it'll show you the whole thread. Not untypical... As for Rudi's junk, instead of improving the thing so it might get within spitting distance of doing even a half-assed job, he's now supplying add-ons instead, at a 400% markup, so it now costs $4,300 with an extra tank and a heater, which should be standard, not extra. You could make an excellent processor plus more than 8,000 gallons of high-quality biodiesel for that price. Regards Keith I talked to a stainless tank maker today ... $3,000 for a 100gal cone-bottom ... manufactured right here in Canby, Oregon. Think I'll wait for more cows. NUTS, speaking of them: does anybody know if Filberts / Hazelnuts would make the right kind of oil. I'm seeing they have 50% content. We occassionally get throw-outs from processing plants ... 800-1000lb totes ... might make 400-500lbs of oil ... how many gals is that ... divide 7.85? ... about 60 gals occassionally. Is it worth looking into pressing that small amount? Grind
[Biofuel] Email Problems
Hallo Folks, My email client decided to correct an error in the mail database and it ate all my mail from yesterday back to 4 January. If anyone has sent me a private email lately would you please send it again if I didn't get it answered? Thank you kindly. Happy Happy, Gustl -- Je mehr wir haben, desto mehr fordert Gott von uns. We can't change the winds but we can adjust our sails. The safest road to Hell is the gradual one - the gentle slope, soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones, without signposts. C. S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters Es gibt Wahrheiten, die so sehr auf der Stra§e liegen, da§ sie gerade deshalb von der gewhnlichen Welt nicht gesehen oder wenigstens nicht erkannt werden. Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music. George Carlin The best portion of a good man's life - His little, nameless, unremembered acts of kindness and of love. William Wordsworth ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] End of Suburbia and Ruralization
The New York Times Opinion OP-ED CONTRIBUTOR Empty House on the Prairie By BOB GREENE Published: March 2, 2005 Chicago IF you and your family would like to move to Crosby, N.D., not only will the town give you a free plot of land on which to build your house, they'll also throw in a free membership to the Crosby Country Club. If you and your family would like to move to Ellsworth, Kan., not only will the town give you free land, they'll also give you thousands of dollars toward a down payment on the house you build if you have children who will attend the public school. If you and your family would like to move to Plainville, Kan., not only will the town give you free land, they will also drastically reduce the property tax on your house for 10 years, and the first-year tax rate will be zero percent. The logical question, upon hearing all of this, is the one I presented to Plainville's mayor, Glenn Sears: What's the catch? Mr. Sears paused for a good seven seconds before answering, as if the question itself did not make sense. Then he said, There is no catch. But there is a requirement: that you pack up your life as you now know it, and start again in Crosby (population 1,100) or Ellsworth (population 2,500) or Plainville (population 2,000). The free-land offer is the result of one of the most significant American stories of the last century, one that has received sporadic attention because it has unfolded so gradually: the inexorable population flow out of rural areas, toward larger cities. The tiny towns in the Great Plains and upper Midwest don't want to die. They are trying to keep their young people from departing, to beckon home those who have left, and - more and more - to think of ways to entice outsiders to come and build and stay. Thus, proposed tax breaks in Iowa; loans in Nebraska; land giveaways in Kansas and elsewhere. And although word of these lures is getting out, no one truly knows whether any of it will work. In northwestern North Dakota, they think there is no option but to try: Steve Slocum, of the area's development alliance, said, You don't get any pheasants if you don't shoot your gun. There may be an inherent problem in the approach: when something is free, it appears to have no value. Playing hard to get has long been more effective than throwing yourself at someone. The jaded big-city negotiating line is: Desperation is the worst cologne. They're not buying that in the towns giving away the land. When I suggested that the towns might do better by taking the opposite psychological direction - charging hefty initiation fees for the pleasure of living in a quiet, safe, low-stress environment - Anita Hoffhines, head of the effort in Ellsworth County, said, We've tried coy long enough. Yet there does seem to be a danger that, by all but begging outsiders to come, the rural communities will send a false and counterproductive message: that small-town life is so undesirable that the only way to keep people is to chain them down (or bribe them). It might be better to explain to the world exactly why a placid way of life is preferable to urban cacophony and chaos - and inform the outsiders that this kind of living is so valuable, they're going to have to pay a little extra for the privilege of moving in. Make what's inside the tent seem irresistible - a lesson that should have been learned on the midways of every county fair there ever was. Not that the small towns aren't trying to spell out their qualities. They're doing it earnestly (Lincoln, Kan.: The Size of a Dime With the Heart of a Dollar); with a wink (northwestern North Dakota: We have four distinct seasons - three are absolutely beautiful, one is very distinct); with exuberant punctuation (Atwood, Kan.: Where else can you enjoy a cup of coffee at the local cafe, and everyone there is your friend?!). In some of these towns, a commute to work is four minutes; crime is all but nonexistent; at night you half-believe you can look toward the soundless sky and see the outskirts of heaven. And isolation, in our age of 500 channels, of easy Internet access and e-mail, does not mean the same thing it did to generations past. So if the giveaway programs fail to bring about a new land rush, maybe it will be no one's fault. The United States is no longer quite so young a country; we've been here a while, and nations, like people, get set in their ways. If the great urban-rural population divide stays the way it is, it may be because we all have chosen to live this way, and are not about to change. With that in mind, I asked Nita Basgall, the city clerk of Plainville, to consider what she would do if the invitation was reversed: if, say, New York City were to offer free plots of land in Midtown Manhattan. Her response was courteous and it was instant: No, thank you. Bob Greene is the author of Once Upon a Town: The Miracle of the North
Re: [Biofuel] Born Again: Help Portland, Oregon
if you have all the waste from at least one restaurant, then maybe you should think about biogas instead of bidiesel. Ideally, some manure would be a nice addition - cow muck is easiest to work with. If you really need the diesel, then I would still use the rest for anaerobic digestion for gas production. If the contributor is correct, you can add the glycerine to the biodigeter as well. You can convert most spark ignition engines to run on methane, together wit hanything else you need to run such as heating etc. Simon Fowler MADUR ELECTRONICS Voitgasse 4 A-1220 Vienna Phone: + 43-1-2584502 Fax: + 43-1-2584502-22 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Our homepage: www.madur.com, www.madurusa.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: Send Biofuel mailing list submissions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] METHANOL: I've been on the phone all day ... raceways, and drag strips ... I LIKE THESE GUYS ... come and get it $4.00/gal ... small quantites or by barrel. Miller Paint went to work for me and gave me three excellent sources they use ... all of them panned-out too. I got a glimmer of hope in being able to believe MAN'S word again. Best I can find is $3.54/gal ... I can see this hunt will be a routine and constant in making BD. BUT, Theo, you're right, these companies want to see legitimate business. One company salesman is sending someone to our farm to make sure we're a farm. I said, I don't have a set-up yet, I don't have a company name yet, I'm checking FEASIBILITY ... but come on-out. He said, it's a LIABILITY-thing for us. I don't want to see our barrel label on the NEWS ... ... GULP SOMEONE please tell me what these guys are looking for ... they're going to find barns, pigs, tractors, and lot's of Hazelnut trees. I DON'T want to be on a radar screen ... sheesh ... can someone please tell me about MeOH in the US. IS IT LAWFUL TO OWN? assume yes ... IS IT A CONTROLLED SUBSTANCE? assume no ... ARE WE NOT ALLOWED TO TRANSPORT IT? ... race guys don't ... it must be a no-no AM I RIGHT TO ASK TO HAVE IT BARREL DELIVERED? ... assume absolutely ... OK TO SIGN A COMPANY WAIVER, POISON MYSELF, AND/OR BURN THE FARM DOWN? ... assume sure, I'm free to do just that and there is no chemical-co liability ... these guys are digging for something else. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] Re: Methanol supplies
trouble with theft of ammonia fertiliser. I can't remember what you make with it, but methanol is also used in the drug industry, and there have been cases in various countries of it being added to alcoholic drinks. Simon Fowler MADUR ELECTRONICS Voitgasse 4 A-1220 Vienna Phone: + 43-1-2584502 Fax: + 43-1-2584502-22 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Our homepage: www.madur.com, www.madurusa.com METHANOL: I've been on the phone all day ... raceways, and drag strips ... I LIKE THESE GUYS ... come and get it $4.00/gal ... small quantites or by barrel. Miller Paint went to work for me and gave me three excellent sources they use ... all of them panned-out too. I got a glimmer of hope in being able to believe MAN'S word again. Best I can find is $3.54/gal ... I can see this hunt will be a routine and constant in making BD. BUT, Theo, you're right, these companies want to see legitimate business. One company salesman is sending someone to our farm to make sure we're a farm. I said, I don't have a set-up yet, I don't have a company name yet, I'm checking FEASIBILITY ... but come on-out. He said, it's a LIABILITY-thing for us. I don't want to see our barrel label on the NEWS ... ... GULP SOMEONE please tell me what these guys are looking for ... they're going to find barns, pigs, tractors, and lot's of Hazelnut trees. I DON'T want to be on a radar screen ... sheesh ... can someone please tell me about MeOH in the US. IS IT LAWFUL TO OWN? assume yes ... IS IT A CONTROLLED SUBSTANCE? assume no ... ARE WE NOT ALLOWED TO TRANSPORT IT? ... race guys don't ... it must be a no-no AM I RIGHT TO ASK TO HAVE IT BARREL DELIVERED? ... assume absolutely ... OK TO SIGN A COMPANY WAIVER, POISON MYSELF, AND/OR BURN THE FARM DOWN? ... assume sure, I'm free to do just that and there is no chemical-co liability ... these guys are digging for something else. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] End of Suburbia and Ruralization
for their ideas. Where I live, you used to be able to get 3 acres and a 1200 square foot shell house for $18,600 with $1000 down and payments of $183 per month. No credit check, no id required. The reality is that we attracted many of the worst kind of people to the area. Theft skyrocketed, violence, drugs and all sorts of problems happened. Some good people came too and they are the ones who stayed. It was a rough 5 years until the town had a population base built up and they started selling finished houses for outrageous amounts of money. After having lived through this, I really wonder if these towns know what they are doing. Bright Blessings, Kim At 06:52 AM 3/2/2005, you wrote: http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/02/opinion/02greene.html?oref=login The New York Times Opinion OP-ED CONTRIBUTOR Empty House on the Prairie By BOB GREENE Published: March 2, 2005 Chicago IF you and your family would like to move to Crosby, N.D., not only will the town give you a free plot of land on which to build your house, they'll also throw in a free membership to the Crosby Country Club. If you and your family would like to move to Ellsworth, Kan., not only will the town give you free land, they'll also give you thousands of dollars toward a down payment on the house you build if you have children who will attend the public school. If you and your family would like to move to Plainville, Kan., not only will the town give you free land, they will also drastically reduce the property tax on your house for 10 years, and the first-year tax rate will be zero percent. The logical question, upon hearing all of this, is the one I presented to Plainville's mayor, Glenn Sears: What's the catch? Mr. Sears paused for a good seven seconds before answering, as if the question itself did not make sense. Then he said, There is no catch. But there is a requirement: that you pack up your life as you now know it, and start again in Crosby (population 1,100) or Ellsworth (population 2,500) or Plainville (population 2,000). The free-land offer is the result of one of the most significant American stories of the last century, one that has received sporadic attention because it has unfolded so gradually: the inexorable population flow out of rural areas, toward larger cities. The tiny towns in the Great Plains and upper Midwest don't want to die. They are trying to keep their young people from departing, to beckon home those who have left, and - more and more - to think of ways to entice outsiders to come and build and stay. Thus, proposed tax breaks in Iowa; loans in Nebraska; land giveaways in Kansas and elsewhere. And although word of these lures is getting out, no one truly knows whether any of it will work. In northwestern North Dakota, they think there is no option but to try: Steve Slocum, of the area's development alliance, said, You don't get any pheasants if you don't shoot your gun. There may be an inherent problem in the approach: when something is free, it appears to have no value. Playing hard to get has long been more effective than throwing yourself at someone. The jaded big-city negotiating line is: Desperation is the worst cologne. They're not buying that in the towns giving away the land. When I suggested that the towns might do better by taking the opposite psychological direction - charging hefty initiation fees for the pleasure of living in a quiet, safe, low-stress environment - Anita Hoffhines, head of the effort in Ellsworth County, said, We've tried coy long enough. Yet there does seem to be a danger that, by all but begging outsiders to come, the rural communities will send a false and counterproductive message: that small-town life is so undesirable that the only way to keep people is to chain them down (or bribe them). It might be better to explain to the world exactly why a placid way of life is preferable to urban cacophony and chaos - and inform the outsiders that this kind of living is so valuable, they're going to have to pay a little extra for the privilege of moving in. Make what's inside the tent seem irresistible - a lesson that should have been learned on the midways of every county fair there ever was. Not that the small towns aren't trying to spell out their qualities. They're doing it earnestly (Lincoln, Kan.: The Size of a Dime With the Heart of a Dollar); with a wink (northwestern North Dakota: We have four distinct seasons - three are absolutely beautiful, one is very distinct); with exuberant punctuation (Atwood, Kan.: Where else can you enjoy a cup of coffee at the local cafe, and everyone there is your friend?!). In some of these towns, a commute to work is four minutes; crime is all but nonexistent; at night you half-believe you can look toward the soundless sky and see the outskirts of heaven. And isolation, in our age of 500 channels, of easy Internet access and e-mail, does not mean the same
[Biofuel] How bok choy can beat sprawl
NOW, Feb 17 - 23, 2005 How bok choy can beat sprawl Wanna save greenbelt? Help farmers dump tired crops for products that appeal to our diversity BY Wayne Roberts Unless the Liberals tart up their greenbelt plan with some smart new policy tricks to reform agriculture, we could end up replacing sprawl with a countryside of theme parks, hobby farms, gated estates, boutique hotels, gravel pits and garbage dumps. That's the danger in Bill 135, the Greenbelt Act, which is otherwise milestone legislation. If the Libs don't begin to remake our has-been agriculture, our struggling food producers will find better things to do with their land, even if they can't sell to developers. And we may discover that in the process, we have put our food security in danger. The starting point is this - the future ain't what it used to be. We now face the possibility of cataclysmic disruptions in the world food system. Global agriculture, converted into a fossil fuel industry, is dependant on cheap conventional oil that's now fast disappearing, plentiful water that's receding by the year and fast-eroding fertile soil. In southern Ontario, fortune has blessed us - if only we can learn to appreciate the gift. The artificially cheap food of the past 50 years has led us to devalue and squander our food-producing lands as underutilized space better suited for freeways. If distant locations become the last remaining source of our nourishment, the Golden Horseshoe's 8 million residents will really be in trouble when future shock hits. So how are we going to keep our greenbelt the source of rich foods? Some advocate reimbursing farmers for money they can no longer make by selling their land for subdivisions. But this is wrong on many counts. It makes greenbelt protection unaffordable, and it's unfair. Present-day farm owners haven't paid taxes all these years on the basis that their properties are speculative. They have paid on the basis that what they own is farmland. If they want to treat their land as a speculative asset, they should pay back the difference. There is a better way to sink public money into food production so that farms have decent real estate value - cash for infrastructure and retraining to reward farmers for developing new markets geared to the diverse city on the doorstep. Much of Ontario's prime farmland has been devoted to the production of low-value, low-value-added, homogeneous bulk commodities like corn, potatoes, peas and beef. If farmers want to survive on high-value land, they need to grow and process (canning, bottling) crops that are more valuable than staples grown much more massively and cheaply elsewhere. There are already enough potatoes in Idaho and PEI to glut the planet, for example. Local growers need help finding products that don't face vicious global competition and a chronic race to where the lowest price is the law. Instead of Old MacDonald having a farm, we now have McFarms, industrialized, specialized rural factories chasing faraway markets and churning out a humongous quantity of a very small variety of farmed crops and livestock. This is agriculture based on Canada's Food Rules and eating habits for 1952, way behind the times in every respect: health, food fashion, ethnic food trends, pesticide use and energy demands. What we need is a renovated agricultural system - and the greenbelt will only be a dream until governments grasp this. Here are my proposals aimed at retooling farming for the sophisticated city trade. ORGANIC GAP It's commonly estimated that 85 to 90 per cent of premium-priced organic foods are imported. Ontario farmers are just not up to speed in terms of servicing this growing need. Obviously we can't grow pineapples and oranges, but apart from these, we need the appropriate ministry to develop policy encouraging farmers to court local consumers. The appropriate provincial minister could also ask that Ottawa consider legal action to prohibit the import of unduly subsidized (in terms of sub-standard labour conditions and massive water subsidies) California produce into Canada. ETHNIC ADVANTAGE Greenbelt farmers should be encouraged to customize their products so they target big-city diversity. We're talking here about massive numbers of ethnic Ontarians - over a hundred different ethnocultural groups seeking everything from bok choy to an Iranian barbecue condiment made from sumach. The dogma in many ag circles is that exporting is the only way to go in the modern world. These officials should consider that if Ontario farmers lead the way in serving unique food needs, there are export sales in the wings to sister communities across North America. TOURIST TRAPS The greenbelt must become part of the imagination of the city dweller, Elbert van Donkersgoed, policy director of the Christian Farmers Federation of Ontario, is fond of saying. Tourists want a nice beach close to a
Re: [Biofuel] Kyoto- nothing but a buch of crap/junk science
I notice you didn't respond to this - the discussion on your claim that the end of fossil fuels will mean the end of the fight against world hunger (below). You have to do some studying Greg, you've got this all wrong... So here's a bit more for you. http://wwia.org/pipermail/biofuel/Week-of-Mon-20041025/001993.html [Biofuel] US Foreign aid Food Dumping [Aid] Maintains Poverty [more...] http://wwia.org/pipermail/biofuel/Week-of-Mon-20041025/001994.html [Biofuel] Myth: More US aid will help the hungry Best wishes Keith snip As it has happened though out history, there are always those people that would sit back and let others do the work while they do nothing in return, and still expect to be fed. You mean the rich and greedy? No you don't. How does this relate to the end of fossil fuels equating to the end of the fight against world hunger? Not just the wealthy, I'm including those that rely on the welfare system. As far as I'm concerned. if you don't contribute something useful (even if it is watching the kids of people that go to work ), you don't eat. So? How does that relate to the end of fossil fuels equating to the end of the fight against world hunger? It doesn't. As for the end of fossil fuels, and how it relates to world hunger: Currently almost every group that works against world hunger, relies on cheep fossil fuel to distribute food.I believe that as the cost of fuel goes up, then that is that much more food, that can be distributed for a given amount of money.Subsequently there are two choices: Use the same amount of funds to distribute less food ( less food - less weight - lower fuel cost ). Use more money to compensate for increased fuel cost. I hope this cleared up things. No it doesn't, not at all. Do you actually believe that the fight to end world hunger depends on rich-country handouts? That's bizarre. I'll tell you what - a large proportion of the hungry would not be hungry anymore if the rich nations and their corporations AND their so-called aid agencies just got out of their countries and left them alone. You don't know how this works, eh? These people are not hungry because they're incapable or incompetent, they're hungry because they've been marginalised, swept aside by the concerns of the rich and powerful. Handouts (which are largely tied to the interests of the donor nations, the main beeficiaries) should be reserved strictly for emergencies, and then it has to be very judiciously done or it can do more harm than good - for instance, by destroying the market position of the surviving farmers, leaving that community totally dependent. I said this below earlier in this exchange, on this same question, didn't you read it? Do you really believe that the fight against world hunger depends on the use of fossil-fuels? It's much easier to make the exact opposite case. It's fossil-fuels that have underpinned the economic practices that have led to the marginalisation of so many. Wherever you see wealth creation it's usually a lot safer to read wealth extraction and concentration, with poverty creation the result. Hence the so-called Green Revolution, based on so-called HYVs, high-yielding varieties (actually high-response varieties bred for their response to fossil-fuel based chemical fertilizer inputs), and usually mechanization, where grain production and the numbers of the hungry increased hand in hand. There was always a minimum size of farm that got assisted, with the small farms left out, though everywhere small farms have been shown to be the more productive. So the rich got richer, the poor were devastated, a typical case. Now, though similar programs continue, a typical case of a different sort is that millions upon millions of small farmers in poor countries and 3rd World countries are turning to sustainable methods which do not rely on fossil fuel inputs. This is the kind of development that really does put food in hungry people's mouths, as opposed to aid (mostly tied to the donor country's interests) and programs such as the Green Revolution, few of which stand up beyond the national data showing increased calories per capita, which mask the growing poverty figures. It's the same everywhere, with so-called free trade vs fair trade, for another instance. It's a quite different story if you remove fossil-fuels from the picture. Too often fossil-fuels means top-down, centralised, corporatist practices that are inimical to local economies and the poor. Most of the so-called benefits of fossil-fuel-based economics go to the few who have far too much - it's just waste, and the costs are horrendous, whether in human terms or environmental. Have you read this? http://journeytoforever.org/community.html Community development http://journeytoforever.org/community2.html Community development - poverty and hunger Do you think the surplus food production of rich countries like the
[Biofuel] Iran and Russia sign nuclear deal
Iran and Russia on Sunday signed a landmark nuclear fuel accord that paves the way for the firing up of the country's first atomic power station, a project the United States alleges is part of a cover for weapons development. http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article.asp?edition_id=10categ_id=2artic le_id=13042 http://tinyurl.com/67qnl McCain: Bar Russia Over Iran Deal The United States should seek to bar Russia from this year's G8 summit to protest actions by Moscow, including its deal on Sunday to provide Iran with nuclear fuel, senior U.S. Senator John McCain said. http://www.themoscowtimes.com/stories/2005/02/28/016.html EU Supports Iranian-Russian Deal On Bushehr http://www.rferl.org/featuresarticle/2005/2/00038BE5-B218-47EF-A675-F3 BB30409F53.html http://tinyurl.com/6f3ed IAEA Head Disputes Claims on Iran Arms U.S. Called Inconsistent in Nuclear Talks Washington Post, Wednesday, February 16, 2005 http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A27319-2005Feb15.html?sub=AR -- http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article.asp?edition_id=10categ_id=2artic le_id=13042 The Daily Star - Politics - Iran and Russia sign nuclear deal Iran and Russia sign nuclear deal By Stefan Smith and Monday, February 28, 2005 TEHRAN: Iran and Russia on Sunday signed a landmark nuclear fuel accord that paves the way for the firing up of the country's first atomic power station, a project the United States alleges is part of a cover for weapons development. Under the deal, which would cap an $800 million contract to build and bring the Bushehr plant on line, Russia will fuel the reactor on condition Iran sends back spent fuel, which could potentially be upgraded to weapons use. Iranian media said Russia's top atomic energy official Alexander Rumyantsev and his Iranian counterpart Gholamreza Aghazadeh inked the deal during a tour of the Russian-built power plant at Bushehr in southern Iran. Washington is convinced Iran is seeking to build atomic weapons - charges Tehran denies - and has been trying to convince Moscow to halt its nuclear cooperation. The condition spent fuel be returned was built into the deal as a concession to Western concerns. Tehran initially rejected the condition, but eventually relented after two years of negotiations. The dispute over spent fuel had pushed the plant's opening back to January 2006. The deal faced a further snag Saturday when Iran objected to a Russian proposal to further delay firing up the plant's reactor. Russia's ITAR-TASS news agency quoted Rumyantsev as saying the plant is scheduled to go online at the end of 2006, with 100 tons of fuel to be delivered about six months before. Aghazadeh told state television that Bushehr was likely to be fully equipped within 10 months, with tests taking place by mid-2006. Russian diplomats say the United States has been lobbying against Moscow's involvement in Iran's nuclear program on a daily basis - but Russia has stuck by the lucrative contract and an option to build a second reactor at Bushehr along with plants at other locations. They say the huge contract has helped save Russia's atomic energy industry, and emphasize there is no way that Bushehr - also under International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) scrutiny - could constitute part of a weapons program. Some in Russia see in Washington's tough line on Iran an unstated aim to thwart Russia's commercial and strategic interests. The United States argues Iran - lumped into an axis of evil - has no need for nuclear energy because of its massive oil and gas reserves and wants to see Tehran hauled before the UN Security Council for possible sanctions. Tehran counters it needs to free up fossil fuels for export and meet increased energy demands from a burgeoning population. Iran also intends to produce its own nuclear fuel for future plants - hoped to produce 7,000 megawatts of electricity by 2020 - a drive at the center of the current stand-off with the international community. While Bushehr symbolizes Iran's nuclear ambitions, of greater Western concern is its work on the nuclear fuel cycle elsewhere in the country. Britain, France and Germany have been trying to persuade Tehran to permanently stop enriching uranium - which can be directed to both civil and military uses - in return for a package of incentives. Enrichment for peaceful purposes is permitted under the nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, and Iran insists it only wants to enrich uranium to levels required for civil purposes. The clerical regime also argues it does not want to be dependent on foreign fuel - a position likely to be reinforced by the difficulties encountered in negotiating Russian supplies. Enrichment is not negotiable, nuclear negotiator and top cleric Hassan Rowhani told state media on his return to Tehran from a visit to Paris and Berlin. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Biofuel] Mercury Pollution Costs U.S. Economy Billions Of Dollars Annually, New Study Estimates
NRDC: Natural Resources Defense Council Mercury Pollution Costs U.S. Economy Billions Of Dollars Annually, New Study Estimates Bush Administration's Lax Approach To Curbing Mercury Pollution Threatens Public Health, Says NRDC WASHINGTON (February 28, 2005) -- A study released today by Mt. Sinai Medical School is the latest evidence that the Bush administration's mercury policy -- especially its approach to power plant pollution -- is woefully inadequate to address the threat mercury poses to public health, said experts from NRDC (Natural Resources Defense Council). The study puts a dollar value on the economic costs of impaired brain development from mercury poisoning. The report calculated that the United States loses $8.7 billion annually in productivity, of which $1.3 billion is directly attributable to mercury emissions from U.S. power plants. (To download the study, click here.) http://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/members/2005/7743/7743.pdf Failing to clean up mercury pollution sentences our children to a life of lost opportunities, said Dr. Jennifer Sass, a senior scientist at NRDC. President Bush says he wants to leave no child behind, but his administration's policy on mercury leaves hundreds of thousands of our children behind. The Mt. Sinai researchers based their calculations on mercury exposure data from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and on studies that link elevated mercury levels with IQ loss. The study reports that approximately 300,000 to 600,000 children each year are born with mercury in their blood at levels associated with a loss of IQ. While these statistics are staggering in themselves, the health and societal costs are likely to be much larger, said Dr. Sass. The Mt. Sinai study limited its calculations to the costs associated with loss of intelligence only, she said. There also are data from Europe suggesting that mercury poisoning is associated with increases in deaths from heart disease, which is the top killer in the United States. In light of the health threat posed by mercury pollution, the Bush administration's weak plan to control power plant mercury pollution is inexcusable, she said. This week a Senate committee is slated to consider the administration's power plant pollution bill, which would allow power plants to cut less mercury pollution than the Clean Air Act requires (for more information, click here). http://www.nrdc.org/media/pressreleases/050201.asp Meanwhile, the Environmental Protection Agency's inspector general recently reported that the agency's senior management ordered agency experts to develop weak mercury cleanup standards for coal-fired power plants (for more information, click here). http://www.nrdc.org/media/pressreleases/050204.asp Power plants are not the only mercury pollution source for which the administration has failed to take strong action. Although chlorine manufacturers using an outdated mercury technology cannot account for the loss of dozens of tons of mercury they collectively use annually, the EPA has yet to address the problem, which it has called an enigma (for more information, click here). http://www.nrdc.org/health/effects/mercury/sources.asp Likewise, the administration blocked progress in controlling mercury use and pollution around the world at a recent UN conference (for more information, click here). http://www.nrdc.org/media/pressreleases/050225a.asp The Natural Resources Defense Council is a national, nonprofit organization of scientists, lawyers and environmental specialists dedicated to protecting public health and the environment. Founded in 1970, NRDC has more than 1 million members and e-activists nationwide, served from offices in New York, Washington, Los Angeles and San Francisco. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] China's New Energy Law Could be Turning Point for Sustainable Development
http://en.ce.cn/National/Law/200503/01/t20050301_3193510.shtml Legislature passes renewable energy bill -- http://www.commondreams.org/news2005/0228-04.htm China's New Energy Law Could be Turning Point for Sustainable Development WASHINGTON -- February 28 -- Today, the Chinese top legislature voted to pass China's first renewable energy promotion law, which will help the country meet ambitious targets for the uptake of renewable energy. Greenpeace welcomed China's commitment to clean renewable energy as the new law could kick-start a massive take-up of clean energy, such as wind power. With the potential to become a world leader in renewables, China could transform the global markets. China could and should be a world leader in renewable energy development. This law has long been anticipated by the global renewable energy industry. If the definition of renewables and the details are right then the international community will get behind China and support its ambition to become an international clean energy powerhouse, said Steve Sawyer from Greenpeace International. The Renewable Energy Promotion Law, which takes effect on the 1January 2006, will allow the renewable energy industry in China to take off. The law guarantees grid access for renewable energy producers as well as spreading the costs of these new technologies across the electricity sector. The law's enactment is a signal of China's intentions in relation to global climate protection efforts, as well as its commitment to cleaner air and energy security, and it is well timed with the entry into force of the Kyoto Protocol two weeks ago. At present, China has no binding obligation under Kyoto, but as the world's second largest emitter of CO2, international attention has focused on the country and its efforts to curb CO2 emissions growth. Renewable energy is seen as crucial and there is enormous international interest in China's potential as a huge market for wind power and other renewable energy technologies. The growth of the wind energy in China last year was 35%, even without the new law. China has similarly huge potential for solar, wave, tidal and biomass power and with energy efficiency could meet all its needs solely from clean energy. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Could this be an idea ?
Pieter, Hier is Hans Valcke uit Belgie. Van zeep maken ben ik redelijk op de hoogte, want ik maak autoshampoo, truckwash, haarshampoo, douchezeep, wasprodukt, velgenreiniger, en verdeel ook nog dieseladditief vooe minder roetuitstoot. U kunt mij rechtstreeks mailen op [EMAIL PROTECTED] Groeten, Hans - Original Message - From: Pieter Koole [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 3:16 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Could this be an idea ? Hi all. Some days ago I wrote about a failure batch (water and / or soap in it). I have been reading about making soap and found that when soap is made, sometimes they boil the fresh soap with a saturated NaCl solution, which separates the soap from the rest (what rest ? I don't know). I tried to boil a sample of BD with a solution as said and so far the BD looks to become some clearer. Does anyone know if this salt would solube (or solve ? How does one say that ?) in the BD ? I can imagion that this would not be very pleasant for the fuelsystem of the engine. By the way, I have tried it with different amounts of water with salt, varying from just salt and no water, to the same amount of water as BD, with the maximum amount of salt solved in it. If wanted, I'll keep you informed. Met vriendelijke groet, Pieter Koole Netherlands ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Born Again: Help Portland, Oregon
On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 09:51:35 -0800 Scott McFarland [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Sorry to call for offline, I figured these were such a common question the list would be bored. Makes sense to contribute to list, at worst, it might Scott, I'm not in your area and can't be of much help as I'm in about the same boat. I would suggest you try a few test batches before you start spending bucks. I've gone through about 15 liters of very dark wvo and have about 1 liter of what i think is useable fuel . Have about $60 invested so not very profitable yet. One of the problems I see is separating the oil from the glycerine in a cone bottom processor. If you tap it out the bottom won't the oil go down the middle and mix with the Glycerine? I bought menthanol in a 5 gallon pail for $16 from a local oil company. I think it is also available in 55 gallon barrels and also in bulk in your container.They sell it to industrial users to keep air compressors from freezing and I think rental companies use it in their portable toilets for the same reason.You can tell I'm in the North. I find the process more of a problem than building the equipment since I'm color blind so titration is difficult and my PH meter doesn't seem to make any sense at all.So I've been running alot of small batches but the results don't seem to repeat so haven't learned much from that either . I've got about 19 liters of wvo left so will keep trying. Good luck in your efforts, Jerry ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] End of Suburbia and Ruralization
AntiFossil Mike Krafka USA - Original Message - From: Kim Garth Travis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 6:49 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] End of Suburbia and Ruralization Greetings, I think our definitions of what is rural and what is urban need to be straightened out. If you live in a town, on an ordinary lot, in a single family home, you live an urban lifestyle, no matter where it is. I would have agreed with you, Kim, until I moved from urban Texas, to rural Minnesota. To be just blatantly honest, I can hardly tell a difference, other than distance. Urban and rural, country and city, don't mean much in America anymore. I guess maybe I need more definition from you. Are you seperating urban and rural by their treatment of waste water? Or are you defining them as being town = urban, no town = rural? Just FYI, the town I now live in, has a population of 214! No kidding. I still think they are making that number up, there's no way this town has over 200 people living in it. McDonalds? Not around any corner for 20+ miles. WalMart? Nope, 34+ miles. We have a post office, 2 churches, 1 mechanic, 2 bars (have to balance out the churches I guess), 1 wedding dress shop (???). The reason I say this, is because only small lots require water and waste treatment plants. And that is a fallacy, too. Have you ever tried disconnecting your house, within city limits, from city water and sewer? To put it mildly, it is an extremely difficult proposition. I actually checked into doing this, not once, but twice, when I was still in Texas. I was fortunate to have a family member who is employed by a city that borders Galveston Bay. He made some inquiries on my behalf regarding the disconnecting an existing sewer hook-up, and as I'm sure you are all aware, that went over like a lead balloon. I never said I handled it the best possible way, I just said that I had actually checked into it. My point is that even if one engages the brain at all times, current author excluded of course, and works incredibly diligently at keeping his/her impact(s) on the environment to acceptable minimums, our infrastructure and inability to adapt, with anything that resembles acceptable speed, is not allowing us to change. Actually, compost toilets and grey water systems work really well, improve your land and have no waste. They do not require public works and are not bad for the environment. The problem is that one must engage the brain at all times, when using the systems or yes, you could make yourself very sick. To live in the country does require a higher degree of organization and more of a willingness to do for oneself, even if it is just cooking your own meals. We don't have a McDonalds just around every corner. I meet lots of people who are living a life based on fear, and are so unhappy. They simply do not understand that it is the lack of skills that is causing this problem. This is especially easy to see in middle-aged single moms, living in the country without the skills to look after their own place. Add to that a limited income, and yes I do understand the fear. The thing is, the skills are not that difficult to acquire. There is a real joy, in eating a meal that with the exception of the salt and pepper, came from your land, was processed 100% on the land and in a home that your built yourself. It is fun setting an example of how it can be done, in reasonable comfort and in safety. It is empowering to know that you can survive whatever is coming down the road. Yeah, I guess I am kinda subversive. But what else would you expect from an old hippie? grin Bright Blessings, Kim snip ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Iran and Russia sign nuclear deal
This nuclaer deal is very bad news.Instead of building Biomass refinaries for and fuel , this big deal is very bad news for the real world globalization and village deveopments. sd Pannirselvam Keith Addison escreveu: Iran and Russia sign nuclear deal Iran and Russia on Sunday signed a landmark nuclear fuel accord that paves the way for the firing up of the country's first atomic power station, a project the United States alleges is part of a cover for weapons development. http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article.asp?edition_id=10categ_id=2artic le_id=13042 http://tinyurl.com/67qnl McCain: Bar Russia Over Iran Deal The United States should seek to bar Russia from this year's G8 summit to protest actions by Moscow, including its deal on Sunday to provide Iran with nuclear fuel, senior U.S. Senator John McCain said. http://www.themoscowtimes.com/stories/2005/02/28/016.html EU Supports Iranian-Russian Deal On Bushehr http://www.rferl.org/featuresarticle/2005/2/00038BE5-B218-47EF-A675-F3 BB30409F53.html http://tinyurl.com/6f3ed IAEA Head Disputes Claims on Iran Arms U.S. Called Inconsistent in Nuclear Talks Washington Post, Wednesday, February 16, 2005 http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A27319-2005Feb15.html?sub=AR -- http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article.asp?edition_id=10categ_id=2artic le_id=13042 The Daily Star - Politics - Iran and Russia sign nuclear deal Iran and Russia sign nuclear deal By Stefan Smith and Monday, February 28, 2005 TEHRAN: Iran and Russia on Sunday signed a landmark nuclear fuel accord that paves the way for the firing up of the country's first atomic power station, a project the United States alleges is part of a cover for weapons development. Under the deal, which would cap an $800 million contract to build and bring the Bushehr plant on line, Russia will fuel the reactor on condition Iran sends back spent fuel, which could potentially be upgraded to weapons use. Iranian media said Russia's top atomic energy official Alexander Rumyantsev and his Iranian counterpart Gholamreza Aghazadeh inked the deal during a tour of the Russian-built power plant at Bushehr in southern Iran. Washington is convinced Iran is seeking to build atomic weapons - charges Tehran denies - and has been trying to convince Moscow to halt its nuclear cooperation. The condition spent fuel be returned was built into the deal as a concession to Western concerns. Tehran initially rejected the condition, but eventually relented after two years of negotiations. The dispute over spent fuel had pushed the plant's opening back to January 2006. The deal faced a further snag Saturday when Iran objected to a Russian proposal to further delay firing up the plant's reactor. Russia's ITAR-TASS news agency quoted Rumyantsev as saying the plant is scheduled to go online at the end of 2006, with 100 tons of fuel to be delivered about six months before. Aghazadeh told state television that Bushehr was likely to be fully equipped within 10 months, with tests taking place by mid-2006. Russian diplomats say the United States has been lobbying against Moscow's involvement in Iran's nuclear program on a daily basis - but Russia has stuck by the lucrative contract and an option to build a second reactor at Bushehr along with plants at other locations. They say the huge contract has helped save Russia's atomic energy industry, and emphasize there is no way that Bushehr - also under International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) scrutiny - could constitute part of a weapons program. Some in Russia see in Washington's tough line on Iran an unstated aim to thwart Russia's commercial and strategic interests. The United States argues Iran - lumped into an axis of evil - has no need for nuclear energy because of its massive oil and gas reserves and wants to see Tehran hauled before the UN Security Council for possible sanctions. Tehran counters it needs to free up fossil fuels for export and meet increased energy demands from a burgeoning population. Iran also intends to produce its own nuclear fuel for future plants - hoped to produce 7,000 megawatts of electricity by 2020 - a drive at the center of the current stand-off with the international community. While Bushehr symbolizes Iran's nuclear ambitions, of greater Western concern is its work on the nuclear fuel cycle elsewhere in the country. Britain, France and Germany have been trying to persuade Tehran to permanently stop enriching uranium - which can be directed to both civil and military uses - in return for a package of incentives. Enrichment for peaceful purposes is permitted under the nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, and Iran insists it only wants to enrich uranium to levels required for civil purposes. The clerical regime also argues it does not want to be dependent on foreign fuel - a position likely to be reinforced by the difficulties encountered in
Re: [Biofuel] Kyoto- nothing but a buch of crap/junk science
Sorry about the delay, I been busy with illness and the furnace installation. - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 12:51 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Kyoto- nothing but a buch of crap/junk science Hello Greg I'll snip most of this... Couple of points: I've never heard anyone but you proposing that we need to sequester the last 200 years of human carbon emissions. If next year the world was totaly carbon neutral, would we not be left with 200+ years of carbon surplus from the all the fossil fuel used in that time? We would still have to deal with the current weather problems from the 200+ yrs of fossil fuel use. If we are to be totaly carbon neutral, would we not hove to do something about the surplus?If something is to be done about the current weather and other current problem brought on by the excess of carbon in the atmosphere, I thing that we do. snip Have you read the Kyoto Protocol? I haven't said a thing about the Kyoto Protocol. snip Many. What point are you making Greg? Are you arguing against global warming now or the dreaded Welfare State? LOL! I disagree with both. So does that put them both in the same category? A bit of a random coupling, isn't it? Anyway your dread of the so-called Welfare State is something that's only to be found in the US within a US context, it just doesn't make any sense anywhere else, as we've established here quite a few times before. The US concept of a Welfare State seems to be all in the mind, not something that exists. No, it does exist.I have seen the it with my own eyes locally. I had a friend, that, refused to flip burgers to make ends meet, between good paying jobs, just because he had a standard that each succeeding job had to pay more than the last job.Once he started to steal, to feed himself and have the comforts of home, and otherwise to support his life style ( including stealing from the people that tried to be his friend and help him out ), I left him behind. I know of mothers that encouraged their un-wed / un-employed daughters to have more children in order to collect more on the welfare check. That is what I disagree with. Welfare state?Maybe, maybe not.State of welfare probably more apply describes it. As for bring it up, the one point I trying to show, was the fact that some people are going to want ( and scream for ) their handouts, that they were getting, from the fight against hunger effort , and how that would be affected by a lack of cheap fuel - be it now, by a major cutting back of fossil fuel use to curb CO2 levels, or later, when we don't have any fossil fuel left. Thus we've had people here screaming that the UK are just a bunch of - aaarghhh! the S-word! - Socialists. LOL! But (please!) let's not argue about it, just check the archives, eh? On the other hand, global warming, though it's also subject to a peculiarly US-centric view, is a planetary reality and not only an impending but a currently unfolding disaster. The two just don't have anything in common. You do me a discourtesy Keith, I never said one thing about Socialism. snip As it has happened though out history, there are always those people that would sit back and let others do the work while they do nothing in return, and still expect to be fed. You mean the rich and greedy? No you don't. How does this relate to the end of fossil fuels equating to the end of the fight against world hunger? Not just the wealthy, I'm including those that rely on the welfare system. As far as I'm concerned. if you don't contribute something useful (even if it is watching the kids of people that go to work ), you don't eat. So? How does that relate to the end of fossil fuels equating to the end of the fight against world hunger? It doesn't. I never made this a rich / poor issue.It was my intent to include the 'poor' that relied on the welfare system to support their lifestyle as well as the rich twits that do nothing, but, live off the efforts of their elders. As for the end of fossil fuels, and how it relates to world hunger: Currently almost every group that works against world hunger, relies on cheep fossil fuel to distribute food.I believe that as the cost of fuel goes up, then that is that much more food, that can be distributed for a given amount of money.Subsequently there are two choices: Use the same amount of funds to distribute less food ( less food - less weight - lower fuel cost ). Use more money to compensate for increased fuel cost. I hope this cleared up things. No it doesn't, not at all. Do you actually believe that the fight to end world hunger depends on rich-country handouts? That's bizarre. I'll tell you what - a large proportion of the hungry would not be hungry anymore if the rich nations and their corporations AND their so-called aid agencies
[Biofuel] Acid catalyst for biodiesel production
ingredient in Coke is phosphoric acid. Its pH is 2.8. I wonder could The Real Thing be used as the catalyst for making biodiesel - of course you may have to purify the coke first but your exhaust fumes may take on a sweet caramelised aroma on top of the french-fries - stomach-churning huh?! All you need then is a big mac and you've got a travelling take-away. The information contained in this e-mail and in any attachments is confidential and is designated solely for the attention of the intended recipient(s). If you are not an intended recipient, you must not use, disclose, copy, distribute or retain this e-mail or any part thereof. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by return e-mail and delete all copies of this e-mail from your computer system(s). Please direct any additional queries to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thank You. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] RE: Re: biodiesel business plan
Dear Evan - I agree with Mr. Keith Addison and I am not sure of your time constraints but it is best to read read read and get an idea of the external and internal variables in your research and business plan. Most business plans in the U.S. follow a standard approach. However, an aspect often overlooked in a business plan is the ethical and environmental interaction of said business on the region-society-world in which it operates and plans to conduct its business. In other words, most business plans will look at vision, mission, markets, cash flow, forecasting, ROI, ProFormas, operations, etc. However, as the business starts one will realize it is much more including the important issues discussed with great fervor on this JTF listserv. In my humble opinion, Phillip Wolfe --- Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Phillip - I have received some responses, but mainly those companies have helped me with the factual side of biodiesel, not the business side. I NEED TO FIND OUT WHAT IT TAKES TO START A BIODIESEL REFINERY. However, I recently spoke with a woman at the CICCA that helped get me some contact info of some local co-ops that supply it and deliver it to my university and others in the area. If anyone has any info on BIODIESEL START-UPS, let me know Thanks, Evan The archives has tons of information on it. You have some reading to do: Start here, for the official side of it: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/34331/ Then try a search here for co-ops: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Information Archive at NNYTech Best wishes Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ __ Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday! Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Kyoto- nothing but a buch of crap/junk science
Your right, the V2 used ethanol, in fact it was 75%/25% - ethanol/water, but, it required liquid oxygen as the oxidizer.With liquid O2 ( LOx ), they achieved a much hotter burn than they would have otherwise.The V2 also had a burn time of about 50 - 80 seconds, most of the flight, the V2 was not under thrust, but just by it's own momentum. While small aircraft engines can work with ethanol, in part because it is in the same range as gasoline, it just can not compete with JP-8, for use in large commercial airliners.BioDiesel, comes the closest, but there are still many issues, that JP-8 still exceeds BioDiesel on. JP-8 has a higher BTU value. This means that a commercial airliner that used BioDiesel would have to carry more fuel per passenger.Having to carry more fuel per passenger, also means that extra fuel would have to carried to carry the fuel ( a nasty circle that can make or break a business ).I'm haven't found stats yet, but, I think that BioDiesel weighs a little more ( for a given volume ) than JP-8. JP-8 has a much lower gel temperature. At the altitude that commercial airlines fly, having the fuel flow properly in the cold is a big issue.BioDiesel ( depending on the feed stock ) has problems flowing at temperatures as high as 20*F.This could be compensated to an extent, with the use of stronger fuel pumps, larger fuel lines and/or fuel heaters, but that adds more weight to the aircraft, again requiring the use of more fuel. Any fuel that would displace JP-8 at this point, would have to: a)Be cheep enough to compensate for the loss of BTU value for it's weight and volume. b)Have a higher BTU value for it's weight and volume. While at the same time having similar flow / temperature characteristics although in some cases these could be overlooked if the fuel / engine thrust weight ratio exceeds that of the engines currently in use. One way might be to find a way of supplying more oxygen to make the burning fuel hotter, without burning up the engine. The sad fact remains that JP-8 has temperature and burn characteristics, that make it the fuel of choice ( not to mention required by the FAA ), for commercial aircraft, and anything that restricts the use of it, is going to cause an increase in the cost of flying. - Original Message - From: Juan Boveda [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, February 28, 2005 15:47 Subject: RE: [Biofuel] Kyoto- nothing but a buch of crap/junk science Hello Greg and all. I disagree with some appreciation about the cost of flying because the fuel cost increase that you wrote As such, the cost of flying would skyrocket. Refering to flying in an airplane, it is possible and even now, to have cheaper solutions for flying if ethanol is used. The first commercial aircraft with a certified engine to use ethanol as fuel is IPANEMA, a brazilian cropdusting airplane to be sell in good numbers because the price of ethanol is cheaper than aviation gasoline in Brazil. Some owners of older aircraft with gasoline engine are requesting a change of their older gas version for the new ethanol powered engine because is operation cost is lower and more powerful for the sa. In the future, the same engine could be installed in small Cessna's type planes later after all tests and be certified to carry passengers. Of course it takes years to enter into comercial production, partly due to a lack of distribution network for a different fuel in different countries or the plane should carry all the fuel to return safe and sound. If you think about the sky prices for roket fuels in terms of today's fuel composition, some of them with H2 and some slow burning explosive compounds, it might be true but Werner Von Braun and other germans scientist did not use them during the WW II, instead they used ethanol as fuel for the rocket V2 . There are still places where steel is made with charcoal and without heavy metal contamination or sulfur. It only has to be bound to a sustentable forest management. About the plane, I already posted last year on october 25, 2004 4:55 PM with the title: Brazilian Ethanol Plane: Ipanema, greener and cheaper to fly I copy and pasted here its body: http://www.embraer.com/ http://www.embraer.com/english/content/imprensa/press_release.asp?press_ release_id=880ano=2004 http://www.embraer.com.br/institucional/download.asp?onde=downloadarqui vo=2_083-Prd-VPI-Ethanol_Ipanema_Certification-I-04.pdf ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] Free land
I'm a life long Resident of Plainville, KS. With due respect to Mr. Sears, while there may be no direct catch to the free land offer and the tax abatement, there is catch to moving to Plainville and Rooks county. The catch is when you move your family here you face the same bleak employment prospects current residents have been facing since 1986. To be fair that same catch applies to most if not all areas offering free land as the editorial's author suggested. Doug - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 6:52 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] End of Suburbia and Ruralization : http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/02/opinion/02greene.html?oref=login : The New York Times Opinion : : OP-ED CONTRIBUTOR : : Empty House on the Prairie : By BOB GREENE : ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] End of Suburbia and Ruralization
AntiFossil Mike Krafka USA Greetings Mike, Actually I am listing urban as a place that has lots of rules. Rural can do for oneself. I live outside of a small town, don't know how many people. They just incorporated around a year ago although the town was established in 1832 in the province of Tejas. We have 6 churches, 3 restaurants, a bank, video rental place, post office, gas station with store and a produce store . No bars, local option is dry. You have put your finger on the real problem with urbanization, too many rules against living sanely. In Houston, most neighborhood gestapo won't allow a clothes line! Forget solar panels and solar hot water. The Houston Renewable Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] list has great fun with this, at least we provide a place for people to rant. My lifestyle of compost toilets and a grey water system would be totally against the law. My point is that even if one engages the brain at all times, current author excluded of course, and works incredibly diligently at keeping his/her impact(s) on the environment to acceptable minimums, our infrastructure and inability to adapt, with anything that resembles acceptable speed, is not allowing us to change. And why do we have all these dumb rules? Because self reliance went out of fashion and everyone wants to be protected. Bright Blessings, Kim ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] End of Suburbia and Ruralization
Well yes the rub is in defining rural. My point is you don't have to drive very far out of town to find the very same things that where being used to paint urban as somehow more evil than rural. The second point was that there is not enough viable real-estate available for every family have their own self-sustaining homestead. Viable meaning decent soil, enough water to support, crops humans and livestock, material to build the shelter, fuel and anything else I may be forgetting. The whole urban Vs. rural debate can never be productive because, a mix of the two has to be the ultimate outcome. Yes urban as well as rural and can, do better in reducing their impact on the environment, but IMO putting one above the other is counter productive. Doug - Original Message - From: Kim Garth Travis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 6:49 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] End of Suburbia and Ruralization : Greetings, : : I think our definitions of what is rural and what is urban need to be : straightened out. If you live in a town, on an ordinary lot, in a single : family home, you live an urban lifestyle, no matter where it is. The : reason I say this, is because only small lots require water and waste : treatment plants. And that is a fallacy, too. Actually, compost toilets : and grey water systems work really well, improve your land and have no : waste. They do not require public works and are not bad for the : environment. The problem is that one must engage the brain at all times, : when using the systems or yes, you could make yourself very sick. : : To live in the country does require a higher degree of organization and : more of a willingness to do for oneself, even if it is just cooking your : own meals. We don't have a McDonalds just around every corner. : : I meet lots of people who are living a life based on fear, and are so : unhappy. They simply do not understand that it is the lack of skills that : is causing this problem. This is especially easy to see in middle-aged : single moms, living in the country without the skills to look after their : own place. Add to that a limited income, and yes I do understand the : fear. The thing is, the skills are not that difficult to acquire. : : There is a real joy, in eating a meal that with the exception of the salt : and pepper, came from your land, was processed 100% on the land and in a : home that your built yourself. It is fun setting an example of how it can : be done, in reasonable comfort and in safety. It is empowering to know : that you can survive whatever is coming down the road. Yeah, I guess I am : kinda subversive. But what else would you expect from an old hippie? grin : : Bright Blessings, : Kim : ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] Fwd: diesel fuel injection systems from China
someone else. Keith From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: P/A/I,2/24,Order Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 01:41:02 +0800 Dear Sir, we have been in the field of diesel fuel injection systems for quite a few years.(CHINA) Recently we have developed a new kind of hr, CH-D90101A=AM Bosch number HD90101AIts unit price is USD150/pc.And we also adjust the unit price of Nozzle , Plunger to USD4~8/pc respectively. We tell you that we will update our VE hr (hydraulic heads for the VE distributor pump) list in our homepages.Thirty more models will be added.And the minimum order will be 10pcs a model. we give the unity quotation of VE distributor head: 3-cyl:USD:55/1pcs 4-cyl:USD:40~50/1pcs 5-cyl:USD:60/1pcs 6-cyl:USD:45~50/1pcs We can ship the following three models to you within 6~8 weeks. after we receive your payment. If you feel interested in our products,please advise the details about what you need,such model name,part number,quantity and so on.We are always within your touch. Thanks and best regards Looking forward to our favorable cooperation. Hope to hear from you soon. (NIPPON DENSO) 096400-0143 096400-0242 096400-0262 096400-0371 096400-0432 096400-1030 096400-1060 096400-1090 096400-1210 096400-1220 096400-1230 096400-1240 096400-1250 096400-1330 096400-1331 096400-1600 ZEXEL 146400-3320 146400-4520 146400-5521 146400-8821 146400-9720 146401-0520 146401-2120 146402-0820 146402-0920 146402-1420 146402-4020 146402-4320 146402-3820 146403-2820 146403-3120 146403-3520 146404-1520 146404-2200 146405-1920 BOSCH 1 468 333 320 1 468 333 323 1 468 334 313 1 468 334 327 1 468 334 565 1 468 334 337 1 468 334 378 1 468 334 424 1 468 334 475 1 468 334 485 1 468 334 494 1 468 334 496 1 468 334 580 1 468 334 590 1 468 334 564 1 468 334 565 1 468 334 575 1 468 334 592 1 468 334 595 1 468 334 596 1 468 334 603 1 468 334 604 1 468 334 606 1 468 334 617 1 468 334 675 1 468 334 678 1 468 334 720 1 468 334 780 1 468 334 798 1 468 334 859 1 468 334 874 1 468 334 899 1 468 334 946 1 468 335 345 2 468 335 022 1 468 336 335 1 468 336 352 1 468 336 364 1 468 336 403 1 468 336 423 1 468 336 464 1 468 336 480 1 468 336 528 1 468 336 608 1 468 336 614 1 468 336 626 1 468 336 632 2 468 334 050 2 468 334 021 2 468 336 013 We have a large number of nozzle, plunger and delivery valve in stock.Here is a list of part of them. NOZZLE 093400-1310 DN0SD193 093400-1710 DLLA160SND171 093400-2280 DNOSD228 093400-5210 DNOPD21 093400-5571 ND-DN4PD57 093400-5590 ND-DLLA150P59 093400-7690 ND-DN10PDN129 093400-7700 ND-DN10PDN130 DNOSD261 DNOSD220 DNOSD293 DLLA150P205 DLLA150S1070 105000-108 NP-DNOSD211 105000-1130 NP-DN4SD24 10500-1650 NP-DNOSD2110 105000-1080 NP-DNOSD211 105000-1360 NP-DN4SD24 105000-1730 NP-DNOSD21 105000-1740 NP-DNOSD193 105000-1760 105000-2280 NP-DNOSDN228 105007-1120 NP-DNOPDN112 105007-1130 NP-DN0PDN113 105007-1210 NP-DNOPDN121 105015-2780 NP-DLLA166S374NP6 105015-3280 NP-DLLA150S328NP52 105015-3520 DLLA150S384NP73 105015-3650 NP-DLLA151S354N86 105015-3670 NP-DLLA160S354NP88 105015-3850 NP-DLLA150S334N385 105015-4130 NP-DLLA154S324N413 105015-4170 NP-DLLA137S374N417 105015-4190 DLLA154S334N419 105015-4220 NP-DLLA160S295N422 105015-4330 NP-DLLA105S304N433 105015-4730 NP-DLLA148S324N473 105015-5070 NP-DLLA160S325N507 105015-6130 NP-DLLA142SN613 105015-6380 DLLA158SN638 105015-8690 DLLA158SN869 105015-8860 NP-DLLA148SN886 105017-0070 NP-DLLA154PN007 105017-0090 NP-DLLA152PN009 105017-0630 NP-DLLA152PN063 105017-0670 DLLA154PN067 105017-0100 DLLA160PN010 105017-0210 DLLA150PN021 105017-0211/10 DLLA150PN021 105017-0900DLLA152PN009 105017-1160 NP-DLLA154PN116 105017-1180 DLLA155PN118 105007-1210 NP-DNOPDN121 105017-1780 DLLA153PN178 0 433 271 740 0 433 271 047 DLLA150S187 0 433 271 045 DLLA150S186 0 433 171 031 DLLA150P30 0 433 171 050 DLLA160P50 0 433 171 059 DLLA150P59 0 433 171 104 DLLA150P115 0 433 171 149 DLLA146P166 0 433 171 137 DLLA146P154 0 433 171 161 DLLA144P184 0 433 171 172 DLLA154P206 0 433 171 231 DLLA150P326 0 433 171 435 DLLA145P574 0 433 171 444 DLLA150P585 0 433 175 048 DSLA145P300 0 433 271 045 DLLA150S186 0 433 271 047 DLLA150S187 0 433 271 361 DLLA150S739 0 433 271 404 DLLA142S792 0 433 271 874 DLLA150S739 0 466 171 003 DLL-A160P3 NP-DLL154S284N393 NP-DLL160S 354NP88 6801128 6801118 PLUNGER LIST: 131101-7020 0-4 131101-7520 0-9 A17 131151-2720 A43 131151-3220 A44 131151-5820 A74 131151-7320 A89 A98 131152-1420 A138 A147 131152-2220 A148 131152-3120 A158 131152-3320 A160 131152-5620 A188 131153-1220 A196 131152-8520 A226 131153-8920 A768 A722 134101-1420 P2 134101-1520 P3 P4 134101-1820 P6 134101-3820 P25 134101-6320 P48 134101-6420 P49 Delivery valve 146430-1420 131160-1920 02A 131160-2220 05A 131160-2920 12A 131160-3620 20A 134110-0120 P1 134110-0520 P4 134110-0920 P8 134110-4520 P44 131110-0620 161S2 134110-0920 P8 134110-4520 P44 134110-7420 P73 131110-2920 A9 131110-3920 A20 131110-4720 A28
[Biofuel] Free land
Kim, I think is to be about scale. For example Plainville has very few lots to give away. While the land is free the requirements to be meet will take an investment and hopefully should keep the, less than serious at bay. That is not to say Plainville doesn't already have it's stoners and drunks as well as vandalism or petty theft. Doug - Original Message - From: Kim Garth Travis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 7:31 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] End of Suburbia and Ruralization : This is an interesting article and I hope the towns don't pay too dearly : for their ideas. : : Where I live, you used to be able to get 3 acres and a 1200 square foot : shell house for $18,600 with $1000 down and payments of $183 per month. No : credit check, no id required. The reality is that we attracted many of the : worst kind of people to the area. Theft skyrocketed, violence, drugs and : all sorts of problems happened. Some good people came too and they are the : ones who stayed. It was a rough 5 years until the town had a population : base built up and they started selling finished houses for outrageous : amounts of money. After having lived through this, I really wonder if : these towns know what they are doing. : Bright Blessings, : Kim ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Acid catalyst for biodiesel production
Chris Kueny I wonder could The Real Thing be used as the catalyst for making biodiesel - of course you may have to purify the coke first but your exhaust fumes may take on a sweet caramelised aroma ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] End of Suburbia and Ruralization
Well yes the rub is in defining rural. My point is you don't have to drive very far out of town to find the very same things that where being used to paint urban as somehow more evil than rural. The second point was that there is not enough viable real-estate available for every family have their own self-sustaining homestead. Viable meaning decent soil, enough water to support, crops humans and livestock, material to build the shelter, fuel and anything else I may be forgetting. The whole urban Vs. rural debate can never be productive because, a mix of the two has to be the ultimate outcome. Yes urban as well as rural and can, do better in reducing their impact on the environment, but IMO putting one above the other is counter productive. ... unless they're out of kilter, as indeed they are, in which case it could help to restore the balance. It's a major problem that one IS above the other, and indeed it's counterproductive I don't think anybody seriously proposes Death to Cities. Probably most of us here can see how poorly cities are planned from the point of view of sustainability, and it's also not too hard to see how it could be improved - very greatly improved. There'll always be a mutual relationship between rural and urban, as there always has been, but it cannot for long be a relationship where the one dominates the other and has it all their own way, it just doesn't work. Cities can be much more sustainable and self-sustaining, more self-reliant, and they're going to have to be, no matter how much it hurts. They'll survive, of course, but at best there'll still be a dependence on the rural sector, and vice versa. Rural areas? Lots wrong there too, as this thread is revealing. There are three problem areas, I think: the urban problem, the rural problem, and the uneven urban-rural relationship. They can all be fixed. Probably the main obstacles are the will and mindset, not the political will so much as at the individual level. Re which: : that you can survive whatever is coming down the road. Yeah, I guess I am : kinda subversive. But what else would you expect from an old hippie? Just that, Kim, just that. :-) Plus a bright blessing or two. Regards Keith Doug - Original Message - From: Kim Garth Travis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 6:49 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] End of Suburbia and Ruralization : Greetings, : : I think our definitions of what is rural and what is urban need to be : straightened out. If you live in a town, on an ordinary lot, in a single : family home, you live an urban lifestyle, no matter where it is. The : reason I say this, is because only small lots require water and waste : treatment plants. And that is a fallacy, too. Actually, compost toilets : and grey water systems work really well, improve your land and have no : waste. They do not require public works and are not bad for the : environment. The problem is that one must engage the brain at all times, : when using the systems or yes, you could make yourself very sick. : : To live in the country does require a higher degree of organization and : more of a willingness to do for oneself, even if it is just cooking your : own meals. We don't have a McDonalds just around every corner. : : I meet lots of people who are living a life based on fear, and are so : unhappy. They simply do not understand that it is the lack of skills that : is causing this problem. This is especially easy to see in middle-aged : single moms, living in the country without the skills to look after their : own place. Add to that a limited income, and yes I do understand the : fear. The thing is, the skills are not that difficult to acquire. : : There is a real joy, in eating a meal that with the exception of the salt : and pepper, came from your land, was processed 100% on the land and in a : home that your built yourself. It is fun setting an example of how it can : be done, in reasonable comfort and in safety. It is empowering to know : that you can survive whatever is coming down the road. Yeah, I guess I am : kinda subversive. But what else would you expect from an old hippie? grin : : Bright Blessings, : Kim ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Iran and Russia sign nuclear deal
Helo This nuclaer deal is very bad news.Instead of building Biomass refinaries for and fuel , this big deal is very bad news for the real world globalization and village deveopments. sd Pannirselvam In one way, yes, but in this case rational energy supply might not be the most important consideration. That doesn't make any sense, I know that, but the whole political background to this doesn't make any sense either, nor has it from Mossadeq in 1953 on down, which hasn't stopped it happening: http://lists.essential.org/pipermail/corp-focus/2003/000158.html We Had a Democracy Once, But You Crushed It By Russell Mokhiber and Robert Weissman NYT review of Stephen Kinzer's new book, All the Shah's Men: An American Coup and the Roots of Middle East Terror: http://www.nytimes.com/2003/08/10/books/review/10BASS.html 'All the Shah's Men': Regime Change, Circa 1953 http://www.fpif.org/commentary/2003/0308iranhist.html Foreign Policy In Focus | Global Affairs Commentary | Iran and the Forgotten Anniversary By Arnold Oliver | August 29, 2003 There have been quite a few comments that the message that a lot of countries got from the Iraq invasion was that Saddam's problem wasn't that he had WMDs, it was that he didn't have them. Does Iran have them or is Iran after developing them? Who knows? I wouldn't say that the CIA and/or Mossad would be the ones to know. http://www.alternet.org/story/21388/ All Options on the Table By Ray McGovern, Tomdispatch.com. Posted March 2, 2005. The notion that the Bush administration would mount a pre-emptive air attack on Iran seems insane. But is proof of insanity needed? [more] http://washingtontimes.com/national/20050221-123842-3048r.htm The Washington Times: Nation/Politics - February 21, 2005 Israel pushes U.S. on Iran nuke solution By Rowan Scarborough THE WASHINGTON TIMES Israel has been privately pressing Washington to solve the Iran nuclear problem in a hint that Tel Aviv may be left with no choice but to bomb Iranian nuclear facilities, defense officials say. [more] Er... oh yes, that's right, we're not supposed to be allowed to mention Israel's nuclear arsenal, are we? Nor this, which rather a lot of people are saying: http://www.thebulletin.org/article.php?art_ofn=ma05speed Dangerous doctrine A U.S. policy of preemption and a push for new nuclear weapon designs could be a recipe for disaster that makes proliferation more likely, not less. March/April 2005 pp. 38-49 (vol. 61, no. 2) © 2005 Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists [more] I fully agree with you Pan, but you can see how the threat of getting invaded or nuked or whatever might put a different angle on it. Best wishes Keith Keith Addison escreveu: Iran and Russia sign nuclear deal Iran and Russia on Sunday signed a landmark nuclear fuel accord that paves the way for the firing up of the country's first atomic power station, a project the United States alleges is part of a cover for weapons development. http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article.asp?edition_id=10categ_id=2art ic le_id=13042 http://tinyurl.com/67qnl McCain: Bar Russia Over Iran Deal The United States should seek to bar Russia from this year's G8 summit to protest actions by Moscow, including its deal on Sunday to provide Iran with nuclear fuel, senior U.S. Senator John McCain said. http://www.themoscowtimes.com/stories/2005/02/28/016.html EU Supports Iranian-Russian Deal On Bushehr http://www.rferl.org/featuresarticle/2005/2/00038BE5-B218-47EF-A675- F3 BB30409F53.html http://tinyurl.com/6f3ed IAEA Head Disputes Claims on Iran Arms U.S. Called Inconsistent in Nuclear Talks Washington Post, Wednesday, February 16, 2005 http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A27319-2005Feb15.html?sub=AR -- http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article.asp?edition_id=10categ_id=2art ic le_id=13042 The Daily Star - Politics - Iran and Russia sign nuclear deal Iran and Russia sign nuclear deal By Stefan Smith and Monday, February 28, 2005 TEHRAN: Iran and Russia on Sunday signed a landmark nuclear fuel accord that paves the way for the firing up of the country's first atomic power station, a project the United States alleges is part of a cover for weapons development. Under the deal, which would cap an $800 million contract to build and bring the Bushehr plant on line, Russia will fuel the reactor on condition Iran sends back spent fuel, which could potentially be upgraded to weapons use. Iranian media said Russia's top atomic energy official Alexander Rumyantsev and his Iranian counterpart Gholamreza Aghazadeh inked the deal during a tour of the Russian-built power plant at Bushehr in southern Iran. Washington is convinced Iran is seeking to build atomic weapons - charges Tehran denies - and has been trying to convince Moscow to halt its nuclear cooperation. The condition spent fuel be returned was built into the deal as a concession to Western concerns. Tehran initially rejected
Re: [Biofuel] Kyoto- nothing but a buch of crap/junk science
JP-8 yes, burgeoning jet travel, airports, tourism - all very corrosive stuff. Do we need it all? We didn't used to, why do we now? Is your journey really necessary? Replacement of current energy use with biofuels doesn't make any sense, and this applies just as much or more to air travel as to anything else. Continuing with current levels of use (waste) just isn't an option. Maybe air travel stopped being Appropriate Technology round about the era of things like Constellations, Skymasters, Dakotas, those big flying boats that plied the world. I think a lot of things stopped being appropriate round about then. Not nostalgia (which ain't what it used to be, LOL!), nor any silly ideas of going back, but the current direction is not the one to pursue much further if we're to go forward instead of down in flames. IMHO. Best wishes Keith Your right, the V2 used ethanol, in fact it was 75%/25% - ethanol/water, but, it required liquid oxygen as the oxidizer.With liquid O2 ( LOx ), they achieved a much hotter burn than they would have otherwise.The V2 also had a burn time of about 50 - 80 seconds, most of the flight, the V2 was not under thrust, but just by it's own momentum. While small aircraft engines can work with ethanol, in part because it is in the same range as gasoline, it just can not compete with JP-8, for use in large commercial airliners.BioDiesel, comes the closest, but there are still many issues, that JP-8 still exceeds BioDiesel on. JP-8 has a higher BTU value. This means that a commercial airliner that used BioDiesel would have to carry more fuel per passenger.Having to carry more fuel per passenger, also means that extra fuel would have to carried to carry the fuel ( a nasty circle that can make or break a business ).I'm haven't found stats yet, but, I think that BioDiesel weighs a little more ( for a given volume ) than JP-8. JP-8 has a much lower gel temperature. At the altitude that commercial airlines fly, having the fuel flow properly in the cold is a big issue.BioDiesel ( depending on the feed stock ) has problems flowing at temperatures as high as 20*F.This could be compensated to an extent, with the use of stronger fuel pumps, larger fuel lines and/or fuel heaters, but that adds more weight to the aircraft, again requiring the use of more fuel. Any fuel that would displace JP-8 at this point, would have to: a)Be cheep enough to compensate for the loss of BTU value for it's weight and volume. b)Have a higher BTU value for it's weight and volume. While at the same time having similar flow / temperature characteristics although in some cases these could be overlooked if the fuel / engine thrust weight ratio exceeds that of the engines currently in use. One way might be to find a way of supplying more oxygen to make the burning fuel hotter, without burning up the engine. The sad fact remains that JP-8 has temperature and burn characteristics, that make it the fuel of choice ( not to mention required by the FAA ), for commercial aircraft, and anything that restricts the use of it, is going to cause an increase in the cost of flying. - Original Message - From: Juan Boveda [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, February 28, 2005 15:47 Subject: RE: [Biofuel] Kyoto- nothing but a buch of crap/junk science Hello Greg and all. I disagree with some appreciation about the cost of flying because the fuel cost increase that you wrote As such, the cost of flying would skyrocket. Refering to flying in an airplane, it is possible and even now, to have cheaper solutions for flying if ethanol is used. The first commercial aircraft with a certified engine to use ethanol as fuel is IPANEMA, a brazilian cropdusting airplane to be sell in good numbers because the price of ethanol is cheaper than aviation gasoline in Brazil. Some owners of older aircraft with gasoline engine are requesting a change of their older gas version for the new ethanol powered engine because is operation cost is lower and more powerful for the sa. In the future, the same engine could be installed in small Cessna's type planes later after all tests and be certified to carry passengers. Of course it takes years to enter into comercial production, partly due to a lack of distribution network for a different fuel in different countries or the plane should carry all the fuel to return safe and sound. If you think about the sky prices for roket fuels in terms of today's fuel composition, some of them with H2 and some slow burning explosive compounds, it might be true but Werner Von Braun and other germans scientist did not use them during the WW II, instead they used ethanol as fuel for the rocket V2 . There are still places where steel is made with charcoal and without heavy metal contamination or sulfur. It only has to be bound to a sustentable forest management. About the plane, I already posted last year on
Re: [Biofuel] Born Again: Help Portland, Oregon
writes: Sorry to call for offline, I figured these were such a common question the list would be bored. Makes sense to contribute to list, at worst, it might Scott, I'm not in your area and can't be of much help as I'm in about the same boat. I would suggest you try a few test batches before you start spending bucks. I've gone through about 15 liters of very dark wvo and have about 1 liter of what i think is useable fuel . Did you start with virgin oil Jerry? Strongly advised - fewer variables to start with, and it gives you a good idea of what to expect as you proceed further. Here's where to start: Where do I start? http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#start What sort of pH meter do you have? By colour-blind you mean you can't see pink (magenta)? Anyway, I find pH meters by far the most reliable way, but you need a good one, which needn't be that expensive. Best wishes Keith Have about $60 invested so not very profitable yet. One of the problems I see is separating the oil from the glycerine in a cone bottom processor. If you tap it out the bottom won't the oil go down the middle and mix with the Glycerine? I bought menthanol in a 5 gallon pail for $16 from a local oil company. I think it is also available in 55 gallon barrels and also in bulk in your container.They sell it to industrial users to keep air compressors from freezing and I think rental companies use it in their portable toilets for the same reason.You can tell I'm in the North. I find the process more of a problem than building the equipment since I'm color blind so titration is difficult and my PH meter doesn't seem to make any sense at all.So I've been running alot of small batches but the results don't seem to repeat so haven't learned much from that either . I've got about 19 liters of wvo left so will keep trying. Good luck in your efforts, Jerry ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Kyoto- nothing but a buch of crap/junk science
as fossil natural gas or coal, or better from renewable sources. basically any source of carbon and hydrogen as found in numerous waste streams can be converted to virtually any mix of hydrocarbons you want. A process is generically called destructive distillation with catalytic reformation. One can turn turkey guts, et al into crude oil, as was discussed on this list previously. Sure it will cost more up front to fly, but at least I don't have to contribute to maintenance of battleships to secure our oil supply. I would much rather invest in a more robust and efficient rail system for travel. We might even have enough left over for emergency use for flights. Greg Harbican wrote: Your right, the V2 used ethanol, in fact it was 75%/25% - ethanol/water, but, it required liquid oxygen as the oxidizer.With liquid O2 ( LOx ), they achieved a much hotter burn than they would have otherwise.The V2 also had a burn time of about 50 - 80 seconds, most of the flight, the V2 was not under thrust, but just by it's own momentum. While small aircraft engines can work with ethanol, in part because it is in the same range as gasoline, it just can not compete with JP-8, for use in large commercial airliners.BioDiesel, comes the closest, but there are still many issues, that JP-8 still exceeds BioDiesel on. JP-8 has a higher BTU value. This means that a commercial airliner that used BioDiesel would have to carry more fuel per passenger.Having to carry more fuel per passenger, also means that extra fuel would have to carried to carry the fuel ( a nasty circle that can make or break a business ).I'm haven't found stats yet, but, I think that BioDiesel weighs a little more ( for a given volume ) than JP-8. JP-8 has a much lower gel temperature. At the altitude that commercial airlines fly, having the fuel flow properly in the cold is a big issue.BioDiesel ( depending on the feed stock ) has problems flowing at temperatures as high as 20*F.This could be compensated to an extent, with the use of stronger fuel pumps, larger fuel lines and/or fuel heaters, but that adds more weight to the aircraft, again requiring the use of more fuel. Any fuel that would displace JP-8 at this point, would have to: a)Be cheep enough to compensate for the loss of BTU value for it's weight and volume. b)Have a higher BTU value for it's weight and volume. While at the same time having similar flow / temperature characteristics although in some cases these could be overlooked if the fuel / engine thrust weight ratio exceeds that of the engines currently in use. One way might be to find a way of supplying more oxygen to make the burning fuel hotter, without burning up the engine. The sad fact remains that JP-8 has temperature and burn characteristics, that make it the fuel of choice ( not to mention required by the FAA ), for commercial aircraft, and anything that restricts the use of it, is going to cause an increase in the cost of flying. - Original Message - From: Juan Boveda [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, February 28, 2005 15:47 Subject: RE: [Biofuel] Kyoto- nothing but a buch of crap/junk science Hello Greg and all. I disagree with some appreciation about the cost of flying because the fuel cost increase that you wrote As such, the cost of flying would skyrocket. Refering to flying in an airplane, it is possible and even now, to have cheaper solutions for flying if ethanol is used. The first commercial aircraft with a certified engine to use ethanol as fuel is IPANEMA, a brazilian cropdusting airplane to be sell in good numbers because the price of ethanol is cheaper than aviation gasoline in Brazil. Some owners of older aircraft with gasoline engine are requesting a change of their older gas version for the new ethanol powered engine because is operation cost is lower and more powerful for the sa. In the future, the same engine could be installed in small Cessna's type planes later after all tests and be certified to carry passengers. Of course it takes years to enter into comercial production, partly due to a lack of distribution network for a different fuel in different countries or the plane should carry all the fuel to return safe and sound. If you think about the sky prices for roket fuels in terms of today's fuel composition, some of them with H2 and some slow burning explosive compounds, it might be true but Werner Von Braun and other germans scientist did not use them during the WW II, instead they used ethanol as fuel for the rocket V2 . There are still places where steel is made with charcoal and without heavy metal contamination or sulfur. It only has to be bound to a sustentable forest management. About the plane, I already posted last year on october 25, 2004 4:55 PM with the title: Brazilian Ethanol Plane: Ipanema, greener and cheaper to fly I copy and pasted here its body: http://www.embraer.com/
[Biofuel] Sodium Borohydride Chemical Reaction and Fuel Cells
I read about the Sodium Borohydride Chemical reaction and how it is used in fuels cells; especially the Millennium Fuel Cell. I am curious if the chemical reaction patentable? Reading the Millennium website is says: http://www.millenniumcell.com/about/index.html The Hydrogen on Demand system releases the hydrogen stored in sodium borohydride solutions by passing the liquid through a chamber containing a proprietary catalyst. The reaction is totally inorganic (carbon and sulfur free), producing a high-quality energy source without polluting emissions. If I recall from my chemistry there are a just few catalysts in this and any reaction for that matter; so is a natural chemical reaction a patentable thing? Thanks Phillip Wolfe __ Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday! Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] Climate change - meet the sceptics
Hi All, The latest findings http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=mg18524864print=true on climate change include a piece on just who the disbelievers are. More importantly, it shows who provides their bread and butter. Regards, Bob. MEET THE GLOBAL WARMING SCEPTICS February 2005 Most of the prominent organisations making the case against mainstream climate science have an avowed agenda of promoting free markets and minimal government. They often accept funding from the fossil-fuel industry. Few employ climate scientists. 1. Competitive Enterprise Institute (Washington DC) A free-market lobby organisation that employs six experts on climate change. Two are lawyers, one an economist, one a political scientist, one a graduate in business studies and one a mathematician. They include economist Myron Ebell, most famous in the UK for a tirade on BBC radio in November 2004 in which he accused the UK government's chief scientist David King of knowing nothing about climate science. The institute receives funding from ExxonMobil, the world's largest oil company and an outspoken corporate opponent of mainstream climate science. 2. American Enterprise Institute (Washington DC) Another free market think tank. The five experts it sent to the most recent negotiations on the Kyoto protocol, held in Buenos Aires, Argentina, in December, included just one natural scientist - a chemist. Receives money from ExxonMobil. 3. George C. Marshall Institute (Washington DC) A think tank that has been promoting scepticism on climate change since 1989. It is a leading proponent of the argument that climate science is highly uncertain. Receives money from ExxonMobil. 4. International Policy Network (London) Free-market think tank which in November 2004 said global warming was a myth, and described David King as an embarrassment. Receives money from ExxonMobil. 5. The scientists There are a few authoritative climate scientists in the sceptic camp. The most notable are Patrick Michaels from the University of Virginia, who is also the chief environmental commentator at the Cato Institute in Washington DC, and meteorologist Richard Lindzen from MIT. Most others are either retired, outside mainstream academia or tied to the fossil fuel industry. In the UK, three of the most prominent are Philip Stott, a retired biogeographer, former TV botanist David Bellamy, and Martin Keeley, a palaeogeologist. Keeley argues on a BBC website that global warming is a scam, perpetrated by scientists with vested interests. He is an oil exploration consultant. From issue 2486 of New Scientist magazine, 12 February 2005, page 40 ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Acid catalyst for biodiesel production
That's a good one, Anybody know anything about hemp seed oil as a suitable crop oil for Biofuel? That would put a hint reafer in there too if it was mixed right. Boy, the scent of that, with the coke and fries and the reafer, would be enough to send most good folks straight back to their college days. JD2005 - Original Message - From: Paddy O'Reilly I just pulled out one of my old humour emails which says The active ingredient in Coke is phosphoric acid. Its pH is 2.8. I wonder could The Real Thing be used as the catalyst for making biodiesel - of course you may have to purify the coke first but your exhaust fumes may take on a sweet caramelised aroma on top of the french-fries - stomach-churning huh?! All you need then is a big mac and you've got a travelling take-away. The information contained in this e-mail and in any attachments is confidential and is designated solely for the attention of the intended recipient(s). If you are not an intended recipient, you must not use, disclose, copy, distribute or retain this e-mail or any part thereof. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by return e-mail and delete all copies of this e-mail from your computer system(s). Please direct any additional queries to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thank You. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
