[Biofuel] Correction to URL

[D. Mindock]

Oops. The URL for Dr 
Randell Mills' site is
http://www.blacklightpower.com/ (not .org)
Sorry...
Peace, D. 
Mindock
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Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water

[D. Mindock]

Hi Bob,


>I automatically reject anything which
>
> 1. appears to violate extremely simple laws of thermodynamics

I think you should be more open, but that's just my opinion. Appearing to 
violate the laws does not imply
that the laws were indeed violated. Sometimes closer inspection is needed.
BTW, the Fluctuation Theorem (extension/replacement of the 2nd Law) of Denis 
Evans
allows, in nanoscale systems, violations of the 2nd Law.

> 2. is supported by testimonial, rather than hard data.

Inventors are always afraid of someone stealing their ideas. Even the patent 
process can
be intercepted by special interests. It is a Catch-22.
Dr Randell Mills though has got his system of energy creation via hydrinos 
patented. He
invites any scientist to come to his facility and examine his prototypes. He 
offers unfettered
access. Some sceptics have stayed as long as a year and came away believers.

> 3. doesn't currently sell power to the grid with the device, even though 
> claims are made of power
>production.

Dr Mills wants to do that, put power on the grid. As to whether his hydrinos 
can power a car, he
is working on that. He's confident that it is possible.

>
> I guess I just have a lower tolerance for fraud, or at least a higher 
> standard for proof.

Well, why don't you go out to visit his facility? It could be an eye opener. 
www.blacklightpower.org

Peace, D. Mindock
>
>
>
> D. Mindock wrote:
>> Bob,
>>You have your mind set already to reject this. This guy
>> is a successful inventor and businessman.
>>   Did you bother to read the wikipedia reference? I think
>> not. You already know it, right? If you did you'd have seen
>> that energies are created that are not readily explained. Things
>> have changed from the 1970's, new discoveries are being
>> made.
>
> sure, but the laws of thermodynamics is not one of those things that have 
> changed.
> toodles.
>
>
>>   Peace, D. Mindock
>>
>>
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: "bob allen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: 
>> Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 8:26 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water
>>
>>
>>> D. Mindock wrote:
 Bob,
 The inventor was
 quite adamant that over unity was being achieved in the early years of
 development.
>>> overunity implies (to me anyway) that you get more energy out than you 
>>> put
>>> in.  If that is the case,
>>> why isn't this guy a bazzillionare?  why isn't he selling power all over
>>> the globe? I'll tell you
>>> why, 'cause it ain't so.
>>>
>>>
>>> I think he stopped using this phrase so as not to be seen
 as a whacko (all breakthrough inventors are seen as such).
>>> no, he stopped using it because he couldn't support the claim with real
>>> data.
>>>
>>>
>>>  He was getting
 a lot of people interested but that was all.
 Anyway, some
 scientists have found temperatures being generated through cavitation 
 to
 be "off the charts". Something strange is going on.
>>> I don't see anything strange.  I say a lecture on the subject of the use
>>> sonoluminesence in the 70's
>>> up put energy in, and you get work -light and heat.
>>>
>>>  Everytime there is a
 a dramatic change in physics, there are always those that think it is
 blasphemy, for awhile. (Cold fusion is still under a dark cloud, but it
 refuses
 to go away. Wonder why?)
>>> because people want to believe that endless energy abounds just around 
>>> the
>>> corner?
>>>
>>>  Then as the science behind it becomes more widely
 accepted, there is a rapid change towards acceptance. Sonoluminescence
 is such a thing.
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonoluminesence
>>> yes, but there is nothing magical or which violates any physical laws
>>> involved here.
>>>
   Temperatures of over a million degrees K. have been found inside
 collapsing bubbles. Excerpt from wikipedia:
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cavitation

 Cavitating water purification devices have also been designed, in which
 the
 extreme conditions of cavitation can break down pollutants and organic
 molecules. Spectral analysis of light emitted in sonochemical reactions
 reveal chemical and plasma based mechanisms of energy transfer. The 
 light
 emitted from cavitation bubbles is termed sonoluminesence.
>>> sonochemistry and sonoluminesence have been around for years, big deal
>>>
 Peace, D. Mindock  P.S. Now the term "bubble fusion" is entering the
 lexicon
 of physics.
>>> along with N-rays, polywater, over-unity devices?
>>>

 - Original Message - 
 From: "bob allen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 To: 
 Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 7:52 AM
 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water


> there is a big difference in the process of heating a liquid via
> ultrasonic energy input (NOTE
> ENERGY INPUT) and claiming to extract energy from nowhere.
>
>
> D. Mindock wrote:
>> Dingel says he wants the money

Re: [Biofuel] Now Is the Time for a Left-Right Alliance

[D. Mindock]

Hi Jim,


> Hi D,
> No not now -  this should have happened after we invaded Iraq and prior
> to the second four years.

Better late than never. We need to stop the Bush regime, now. It is a
loose cannon.
>
> I honestly am not a progressive or a conservative.  I simply listen to
> both sides of an issue and look for the truth that comes from each then
> decide where America as a people will benefit the most -  NOT where I
> will benefit or where my special interests lie,

My special interests are: fairness, life (live & let live, here and abroad), 
equal justice for all regardless of whatever, equal
opportunity for all, world-class education for all through 4 years college; 
stop the polluting of our air/water/food, low cost single payer healthcare 
for all, investing in sustainable energy sources, and reducing our greatly 
bloated Pentagon budget so that we can pay for all the infrastructure 
repairs/upgrades needed to our social and physical fabric.


  but where the most
> Americans will stand to benefit (without the loss of life and liberty to
> someone in another country as a result of the benefit to these
> Americans.).
> I believe JFK said "ask not what your country can do for
> you but what you can do for your country"

Yes, I believe he said that.

> I understand some issues are
> very complicated and do not have simple answers but when you jump on a
> party line that says " this is bad" and "thats good don't bother to
> think",  then you have just become blind to the real solutions.

Basically, all I have been saying that BushCo represents special interests 
and
not the American people. He has lied to Congress and "we the people".
His values and actions have resulted in a degraded environment, a disastrous 
war in Iraq (more pending?),
fraud, spying on us all, etc. These are bad.

 I believe the best solution is his immediate
removal from office. This is good.

You can think on this. I encourage free thinking on all issues. Are there 
any issues
am I blind to?

There is nothing complicated about GW Bush. He's a pretty linear guy.

Peace to all, D. Mindock

> Best,
> Jim
>
> D. Mindock wrote:
>
>> http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/node/10305
>> 
>>
>> Now Is the Time for a Left-Right Alliance
>>
>> A rebel alliance already exists that could stop Bush administration
>> attacks on the Constitution
>> by Thomas R. Eddlem
>>
>> I'm currently a life member of the John Birch Society and formerly
>> served on the staff of the organization for 13 years.
>>
>> So why should any left-winger reading this care a fig about what I have
>> to say?
>>
>> Because of a conversation I had with another conservative magazine
>> writer recently. In frustration at the unconstitutional excesses of the
>> Bush administration, I blurted out to him: "The only people doing any
>> good out there are the people at Air America." I expected to shock him
>> with the statement, but his two-word reply shocked me: "And MoveOn.org."
>>
>> We were both exaggerating for effect, but fact is, as my journalist
>> friend continued, "We probably only disagree on, maybe, 25 percent of
>> the issues." I'd have put the percentage a little higher, though I
>> tacked an ending onto his sentence: ".and those issues aren't especially
>> important right now."
>>
>> When Air America started, I told myself and my friends that it would
>> fail because it would be redundant. The Left already controls all the
>> television networks besides Fox, along with most of the major
>> newspapers. But here we are a year later, and the most penetrating news
>> analysis on television is - and I'm not exaggerating here - Jon
>> Stewart's Daily Show on Comedy Central.
>>
>> I tuned into the Boston Air America affiliate when I became a community
>> radio talk show host almost two years ago, thinking that I could use a
>> few of their wild statements as a springboard to bounce my counterpoint.
>> And although I got a few yuks out of quips about "Airhead America," I
>> found that I agreed with the hosts more than I disagreed with them.
>>
>> They criticized the Bush administration for deceiving us into the Iraq
>> war. No problem there. They criticized Alberto Gonzales for his torture
>> memos. Again, no problem. They criticized deficit spending, the PATRIOT
>> Act, and corporate welfare. Hurray, hurray, and hurray!
>>
>> So I called into a few "progressive" radio talk shows, identifying
>> myself as a "right-wing radio talk show host," and explained my
>> understanding of these issues. Stephanie Miller told me that I was a
>> "not a very good right-winger." A liberal show host at my radio station
>> even called me a "liberal."
>>
>> But my views haven't changed one bit since I joined the John Birch
>> Society during the Reagan administration. So this is not a conversion
>> story.
>>
>> What's changed is that the Bush administration has simply gotten that
>> bad and that, according to some polls, we are almost at the point 

[Biofuel] OT: NAIS Action Alert

[Marylynn Schmidt]

If ever there was a truly evil "wind in the air" .. this is it!!

Please read and understand it for what it is.

This needs to be stopped now .. and the only way to do it is to withdraw all 
funding!!


Mary Lynn
Rev. Mary Lynn Schmidt, Ordained Minister
ONE SPIRIT ONE HEART
TTouch . Reiki . Pet Loss Grief Counseling . Animal Behavior Modification . 
Shamanic Spiritual Travel . Behavior Problems . Psionic Energy Practitioner 
. Radionics . Herbs . Dowsing . Nutrition . Homeopathy . Polarity .

The Animal Connection Healing Modalities
http://members.tripod.com/~MLSchmidt/
http://allcreatureconnections.org





: [n2n4h] Fwd: NAIS  Action Alert

Date: Mon, 15 May 2006 20:36:55 -0700 (PDT)





*** ACTION ALERT **


The agriculture appropriations bill (H.R.5384) is expected to be on the 
House floor Wednesday, May 17 for debate and final vote.


Congressman Ron Paul has introduced an amendment to block all funding for 
the National Animal Identification System (NAIS) at both the federal and 
state levels.


This may be our best opportunity to stop the NAIS.

Please help by doing all you can. Here are some suggestions:

1. Call YOUR Congressman. Capitol Switchboard: (202) 225-3121.

(If you don’t know who to call, click here: 
http://libertyark.net/tools.shtml - and enter your zip code in the box. 
Your officials’ contact info will be provided.)


2. Ask him/her to vote FOR the Paul amendment to the 2007 Agriculture 
Appropriations Bill. This amendment will block funding for the NAIS.


BECAUSE: (choose a couple of reasons you think most appropriate, or use 
your own)


a. The program has had no Congressional hearings or debate, nor has there 
been sufficient input in the rule-making process.


b. The program, as now designed, will be too costly and burdensome for 
farmers and ranchers.


c. The program invades the privacy of every American who owns even one 
livestock animal, whether a horse, pet pot-bellied pig, or chicken.


d. NAIS will not protect us against disease or bioterrorism because (i) it 
does not address the causes of disease;

(ii) it does not address how diseases are transmitted;
(iii) we already have sufficient means of tracking diseases and 
quarantining; and
(iv) the recommended technology can be easily reprogrammed, so that it is 
ineffective against intentional (or even many unintentional) introductions 
of disease.


e. NAIS will expand the government bureaucracy, at the cost of individuals’ 
rights and the free market.


f. NAIS will raise the cost of food, while not providing any additional 
food safety


3. Forward this alert to all your mail lists.

4. Visit http://libertyark.net  and sign the "Support Pledge" for yourself 
and/or your organization to help demonstrate the growing number of people 
who oppose the NAIS.




http://EquineFriends.com
http://2HotToTrot.com
  http://StopHorseSlaughter.com

  "To be an equestrian in the classical sense is not just to be a rider. 
It is a position in life."

--Charles de Kunffy

  http://AreteSaddlery.com
  http://HorseHomePages.com












[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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[Biofuel] Preparing to plant my garden

[JJJN]

Whew!  I just got done raising the beds in the garden.  Each bed is 3' x 
8' long and has soil 2-3' deep. The soil is basically 50-75% compost 
that you can't make a clod out of when moist (a decent clod that is). 
(well composted)  I plan on planting Squash (Hubbard & Acorn) gourds, 
Watermelon, cucumbers and cantelope in some of these.

Does any one know how close together I can plant each in these raised beds?

Help much appreciated,

Jim

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Re: [Biofuel] Separating Glycerine

[JJJN]

Tom ,
I have been wondering about this too, so far I thought I would try the 
steps below but i would rather here where i went wrong in my thinking first.

Lets say we have 10 Liters of Cocktail well mixed and we take 10 ml out 
and add it to 100 ml of Ph neutral water with phenolthalene (sp) mixed 
in. Now lets say we mix this up good and we should be seeing some good 
pink water. Now lets take our acid and dilute it by 50% with water. Now 
if we take an eye dropper that allows to drop 1 ml at a time to the mix. 
lets say we drop 10, 1 ml drops  and it goes clear - no pink. Now I have 
never been a math wizard so correct me when I blunder forth here... 5ml 
acid neutralized  10 ml of cocktail to ph 7 or past so 5 liters of acid 
would do the trick in this example ( I must have picked some terrible 
numbers for illustration purposes),

Ok how bad did I muss up and where did I?

Help Too!
Jim

Thomas Kelly wrote:

> Hello to all,
>The short version:
>  1.  To split the glycerine cocktail must one merely neutralize the 
> NaOH/KOH used to produce it or is it necessary to go beyond neutral, 
> to acid?
>  2.   If it must be acidic, 
>  if one knows how much H3PO4 it takes to neutralize the mix, can 
> one predict how much more H3PO4 it will take, to get the split?
>  
> The long version:
>  On 4/10/06 Todd Swearingen, in a post entitled "Re: Separating 
> Glycerine" suggested that I would need to add 510 - 590 ml of 85% 
> phosphoric acid to each cubie (4.5 gal/17.7L plastic container) of 
> glycerine cocktail to achieve a split. 
>  Sure enough, when I added 540 ml (lowest) - 580ml (highest) of 
> 85% H3PO4 to the next cubies of glycerine mix I got separation into 
> mineral precip, crude glycerine, & free fatty acids.
>  I've been wondering ever since how he was able to make the 
> calculation/prediction    or is he just a good guesser?
>  
>  On 12/02/05 Bioclaire Nederland described how to calculate the 
> amount of H3PO4 to add for separation if one knew the amount of NaOH 
> used to process the WVO that yielded the Glycerine cocktail. (See 
> "separating Glycerine" & "separating Glycerine Mistake!").
>  The explanation is based on the equation for neutralizing NaOH 
> using H3PO4.
> H3PO4   +   3NaOH   -->  Na3PO4   +  3H2O
> 1 Mole (98g) of H3PO4 will neutralize 3Moles (120g) NaOH
>  
>  If one knows how much NaOH (or KOH) was used in the batch(es) 
> that produced the Glycerine cocktail it should be possible to 
> calculate how much H3PO4 it would take to neutralize (and split?) the 
> mix.
>  
> Here is where the problem, and questions come in:
>  The Glycerine mix I was using (4.5 gal/17.7L) containers each 
> came from two  76L batches (152 L WVO, total).
> The oil I used for these batches titrated at 1.0 - 1.5 g NaOH/L of 
> WVO. (684 - 760 g of NaOH)
>  Adjusting for 85% H3PO4 (115g of 85% H3PO4 would contain the 
> 98g - i.e. 1M.- of H3PO4) and using the density of 85% H3PO4 (~ 
> 1.59g/ml), that I should only need 460ml of the 85% H3PO4 to 
> neutralize the lye used to process the oil.
>  Not all of the lye is in the glycerine cocktail. Some is in the 
> BD. I use 0.20 ml H3PO4/L of oil processed when I do my first wash 
> (15ml/76L batch or 30ml for two batches). This results in wash water 
> very close to neutral suggesting to me that approximately 50 g of the 
> lye used to process the WVO comes out in the BD, not in the Glyc. mix. 
> The 710g of lye that is in the glyc. mix should only take about 430 ml 
> of the 85% H3PO4 to be neutralized.
>  
>  None of the cubies would separate w less than 540ml of the 85% 
> H3PO4. This suggests that it takes more than merely neutralizing the 
> glycerine mix to get it to split.
> (Answer to Ques #1?)
>Note:  I'm  doing a lot of this in my basement or in a shed out 
> back, not a lab.
>  So how did you do it Todd?Neutralize + 20%?
>  If it's a secret, include the word iguana anywhere in your 
> response and I'll drop the subject.
>Still puzzled
>  Tom
> 
> 
>  
>
>
>
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>  
>

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Re: [Biofuel] Separating Glycerine

[JJJN]

Ken is this because it has a high total alkalinity?  Say like we get in 
a swimming pool as the total alkalinity goes up it is harder to change 
the Ph?

Jim

Ken Provost wrote:

>On May 15, 2006, at 1:42 PM, Thomas Kelly wrote:
>  
>
>
>  
>
>>Do we simply have to neutralize the mix or do we
>>have to achieve a particular pH?
>>I suspect that many people do not split the mix
>>because it's a bit  confusing or sounds difficult.
>>
>>
>
>
>The  FFA-soap system is a "buffer", which means
>that the combination of ingredients  tends to resist
>a change in its pH. As you add acid, the pH doesn't
>change much -- you add more, it's still pH 10. You
>add more, now it's pH 9.5. A little more, suddenly
>it's pH 4 and the FFA is floating to the top.
>
>Typically, you'll tend to overshoot with the acid before
>you get a good FFA split. Once you  remove the FFA
>from off the top, the aqueous phase below loses its
>buffering properties, and you can bring it back to
>neutrality in a straightforward (linear) fashion with
>ammonia or some such base. Confusing?  Naah :-)
>
>-K
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Biofuel] shockwaves, cavitation... and faster bio?

[JJJN]

Joe, Jason,

Don't over look yet another great advantage of the Venturi.

I am getting ready to start a new batch of oil for the acid base method 
I know I will need to get 80 ml per liters of methanol mixed with it 
before I have to add Acid.  So before heating it (USE DRY OIL) I hook 
the Venturi Suction to the outlet of a pot that holds the waste of the 
last batches or so as I heat it to boil out the Methanol the vacume 
drops the temp required and as the hot gas is pulled into the oil stream 
it instantly changes to liquid as it is mixed in the cold (relatively) 
oil.  The oil was benched marked so when there is no more boiling out I 
can determine how much I have injected. This makes use of around 50% of 
the heat used in reclaiming and ends the problem of having to cool it 
(more energy)

I also use Cold refrigerated oil to percolate the methanol gas from the 
biodiesel before washing using the "stone" to make tiny bubbles so it 
pulls out more methanol. This requires a separate vessel though. 

Jim

Joe Street wrote:

>Hi Jason
>
>I may inadvertently have done this already.  My system is a vacuum type 
>reactor.  I regularly see cavitation in the mixing pump as I dry oil or 
>fuel as I have it running early on during the drying process. During a 
>process, I use a small amount (5") of vacuum to draw the methoxide into 
>the mixing pump and one time I had a little more vacuum and caused 
>cavitation when I was doing a reaction.  There is probably always a 
>little cavitation happening around the pump impeller. In my system the 
>reaction happens so quickly that I can see a dramatic darkening colour 
>change in the fluid if I compare what is flowing into the pump inlet and 
>what is coming out as I trickle the methoxide into the pump. I am 
>pumping about 4-5 GPM so fluid is moving at high speed and travels the 
>length of the recirculating tube in a fraction of a second so seeing the 
>colour change in that tube means the reaction is happening quite 
>quickly. I do not have a reflux tube above my tank so I wouldn't try to 
>run with a vacuum that would cause so much cavitiation that I see a 
>stream of bubbles in the tube, because I would then be losing a lot of 
>methanol, but it could be that cavitation is already playing a part in 
>systems that use pump mixing, especially if they are vacuum systems.
>
>Joe
>
>Jason & Katie wrote:
>
>  
>
>>as one has seen over time, i save emails that i find interesting, and once 
>>in a while i get the brilliant flash to put some of the contained ideas 
>>together.
>>
>>the properties of cavitiation include:
>>
>>1) agitation
>>2) heat
>>3) vaporization resulting in larger active surface area
>>
>>could we use these properties in a semi passive system of the "aperture 
>>control" scheme (defined in the wikipedia article 
>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cavitation ) that is commonly used today, and 
>>take advantage of these three properties to speed and enhance the BD 
>>process? granted there will still need to be an external heat source, a 
>>pump, and possibly a little vacuum, but these are already part of the well 
>>known process we enjoy today.
>>
>>any ideas?
>>
>>jason 
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>
>
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Re: [Biofuel] Solar Concentrator & PV Modules

[Jason & Katie]

i wasnt talking about your idea, i was speaking of the computer.

anyway if you were to go about it this way, you would need a "white oil" 
which is totally clear, and colorless because any color or particulates 
would lower the applied sunlight. this would produce more heat, yes, but the 
electrical power would be reduced. from an application standpoint the 
question is "is the tradeoff worth it?" it all depends on what results you 
are after.

- Original Message - 
From: Michael Redler
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Monday, May 15, 2006 8:17 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Solar Concentrator & PV Modules


What does extreme mean?

The way I see it, there is probably less materials (no special methods for 
interfacing PV panel and cooling). I visualize the PV panels in a clear, oil 
tight enclosure with an inlet, outlet, a length of tubing, heat exchanger 
(radiator) and circulating pump. As far as hardware is concerned, I don't 
see this as a huge departure from what we've already been talking about.

Now, this thread contains lot of "it won't work" type statements which are 
not supported with a hell of a lot of information. Simply put, it's a bit of 
a turn-off.

So, if you have a position that questions the validity of an idea, please 
back it up with something more than "that's just a touchbit extreme...".

Thank you in advance.

Mike


Jason & Katie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
that's just a touchbit extreme...

- Original Message - 
From: Michael Redler
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Monday, May 15, 2006 7:25 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Solar Concentrator & PV Modules



As we all know, there are a lot of ways to harvest waste heat but the one
that stands out in my mind is from a message posted about six months ago. I
don't know if this is a solution, but I'm definitely curious to know one way
or the other.

http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg59540.html

1) Oils are generally non-conductive so, the PV cells can be immersed in it
without shorting.

2.) Some oils can come with fairly good optical qualities - important for
passing light to PV and transforming light to electricity.

Joe: I remember reading your post about experimenting with black bodies and
it looks like you have a background that may be useful here. Maybe you can
chime in (if your reading this thread)?


Mike

[snip]



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Re: [Biofuel] Solar Concentrator & PV Modules

[Michael Redler]

Zeke,     Why are you concentrating on emerging technology for purchase when the purpose of this forum encourages the opposite? This is especially true when the discussion is about technology which is accessible to most people (at least most people on this list).Fill a glass box with PV and clear oil. If there is a problem with this application, please let me know. I'm not too proud to concede that I may have missed something.What would Schumacher do?MikeZeke Yewdall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:  What about the liquid PVs?? I think that Konarka is developing one ofthose. And a company in Austrailia. They supposedly had somepre-production prototypes about a year ago, but I haven't seencommercial ones yet. They use some sort of nano-crystal, and liquidinside,
 which can be replaced in 10 years when it degradeshttp://www.konarka.com/ Hmm. Looking at the website, it looks likeit's not the Konarka stuff. I'll try to find the website of theaustralian one.Zeke[snip]___
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Re: [Biofuel] Solar Concentrator & PV Modules

[Michael Redler]

What does extreme mean?The way I see it, there is probably less materials (no special methods for interfacing PV panel and cooling). I visualize the PV panels in a clear, oil tight enclosure with an inlet, outlet, a length of tubing, heat exchanger (radiator) and circulating pump. As far as hardware is concerned, I don't see this as a huge departure from what we've already been talking about.Now, this thread contains lot of "it won't work" type statements which are not supported with a hell of a lot of information. Simply put, it's a bit of a turn-off.     So, if you have a position that questions the validity of an idea, please back it up with something more than "that's just a touchbit extreme...".Thank you in advance.Mike  Jason & Katie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:  that's just a touchbit extreme...- Original Message - From: Michael RedlerTo: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Monday, May 15, 2006 7:25 PMSubject: Re: [Biofuel] Solar Concentrator & PV ModulesAs we all know, there are a lot of ways to harvest waste heat but the one that stands out in my mind is from a message posted about six months ago. I don't know if this is a solution, but I'm definitely curious to know one way or the other.http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg59540.html1) Oils are generally non-conductive so, the PV cells can be immersed in it without shorting.2.) Some oils can come with fairly good optical qualities - important for passing light to PV and transforming light to electricity.Joe: I remember reading your post about experimenting with black bodies and it looks like you have a background that may be useful
 here. Maybe you can chime in (if your reading this thread)?Mike[snip]___
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Re: [Biofuel] Separating Glycerine

[Ken Provost]

On May 15, 2006, at 1:42 PM, Thomas Kelly wrote:
>

> Do we simply have to neutralize the mix or do we
> have to achieve a particular pH?
> I suspect that many people do not split the mix
> because it's a bit  confusing or sounds difficult.


The  FFA-soap system is a "buffer", which means
that the combination of ingredients  tends to resist
a change in its pH. As you add acid, the pH doesn't
change much -- you add more, it's still pH 10. You
add more, now it's pH 9.5. A little more, suddenly
it's pH 4 and the FFA is floating to the top.

Typically, you'll tend to overshoot with the acid before
you get a good FFA split. Once you  remove the FFA
from off the top, the aqueous phase below loses its
buffering properties, and you can bring it back to
neutrality in a straightforward (linear) fashion with
ammonia or some such base. Confusing?  Naah :-)

-K





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Re: [Biofuel] Solar Concentrator & PV Modules

[Zeke Yewdall]

What about the liquid PVs??  I think that Konarka is developing one of
those.  And a company in Austrailia.  They supposedly had some
pre-production prototypes about a year ago, but I haven't seen
commercial ones yet.  They use some sort of nano-crystal, and liquid
inside, which can be replaced in 10 years when it degrades

http://www.konarka.com/   Hmm.  Looking at the website, it looks like
it's not the Konarka stuff.  I'll try to find the website of the
australian one.

Zeke

On 5/15/06, Jason & Katie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> that's just a touchbit extreme...
>
> - Original Message -
> From: Michael Redler
> To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> Sent: Monday, May 15, 2006 7:25 PM
> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Solar Concentrator & PV Modules
>
>
>
> As we all know, there are a lot of ways to harvest waste heat but the one
> that stands out in my mind is from a message posted about six months ago. I
> don't know if this is a solution, but I'm definitely curious to know one way
> or the other.
>
> http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg59540.html
>
> 1) Oils are generally non-conductive so, the PV cells can be immersed in it
> without shorting.
>
> 2.) Some oils can come with fairly good optical qualities - important for
> passing light to PV and transforming light to electricity.
>
> Joe: I remember reading your post about experimenting with black bodies and
> it looks like you have a background that may be useful here. Maybe you can
> chime in (if your reading this thread)?
>
>
> Mike
>
>
> Zeke Yewdall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> This is basically what I did. kludging would be the word for it, as
> about once a week it would have a catestrophic leak and I'd have to
> rebuild it. Worked okay to get research data, but obviuosly not long
> term I found that preheating water for domestic hot water (which
> could have final heating done either by real solar thermal collectors,
> or gas/electric/etc) seemed to be the best. Try to get it too hot and
> the efficiency dropped way off (I had water tubes touching the back of
> the PV module, but no front glazing), plus it didn't cool the PV cells
> enough to help with electrical efficiency much either. The trick is
> to size the storage tank and PV area with the daily draw to still get
> the cooling effect and not stagnate the tank. I suppose with a
> different collector design you could obtain higher temperatures, and
> still probably not damage the PV module (unless the circulation loop
> stagnated, then I'm not sure), but I was going more for cooling the
> PV, and seeing the collected thermal energy could be useful, rather
> than having high quality thermal energy as the primary goal. Given
> that typical solar thermal DHW system here in the US don't achieve
> 100% solar fraction anyway, I figured that preheat was a decent way to
> go. If you wanted to go for 100% solar fraction (which is what we
> should be doing long term) cascading it with a higher temp solar
> thermal collector might be alot better.
>
> On 5/15/06, Chip Mefford wrote:
> > Zeke Yewdall wrote:
> > > This is exactly what I did my master's thesis on. The concept works
> > > pretty well from a theoretical perspective. I was just investigating
> > > using water cooling for non-concrentrating PV, but it would work even
> > > better for concentrating PV. You shouldn't really have to deal with
> > > 1200F, at least if you are talking about water, because the maximum
> > > working temp for a water based fluid is probably about 400F or so??
> > > (assuming antifreeze additives and increased pressure). Depends on
> > > how much pressure you are talking about I guess.
> > >
> >
> > l was thinking of kludging up water jackets for PV panels, to feed
> > the INFLOW for a small evacuated tube solar heater, preheating the
> > inflow by 'cooling' the PVs.
> >
> > Do you think this makes sense?
>
>
>
>
> ___
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>
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>
> Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000
> messages):
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>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Biofuel] Solar Concentrator & PV Modules

[Jason & Katie]

Mr. Yewdall and listers,

i have some images floating around in my head that i havent put to media 
yet, but they involve fluid cooled PV and heat sinks, and all sorts of odd 
junk that may or may not work. care to toss a few ideas in the pot and see 
if we can boil down something useful? i will try to make some decent 
drawings and scan them in, as soon as i get my computer re-arranged (new 
apartment) ask for a copy, and ill 'mail it to you

- Original Message - 
From: "Zeke Yewdall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Monday, May 15, 2006 7:11 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Solar Concentrator & PV Modules


> Google Richard Komp.  His book is called something like "practical
> photovoltaics".  In the back of it, he's got a design for a
> concentrating PV/thermal collectors.  I haven't looked at it for a
> while, but if I recall, he soldered a copper plate to a copper pipe,
> then glued the PV cells to the copper plate with silicon glue, maybe
> with a piece of plastic in between to make sure it didn't short out???
> Can't vouch that I remember the details right, but that's what I
> recall.  Then a semi-parabolic trough reflector to concentrate about 3
> or 4 suns on it.
>
> On 5/15/06, Jason & Katie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> aha, this is where i find a new idea.
>>
>> the dielectric heat grease used between processors and heat sinks 
>> /should/
>> work to electrically insulate the cell from the water pack (not jackets, 
>> a
>> flat sleeve covering the back with circulated coolant completely filling 
>> it)
>> while conducting heat into the cooling vanes in the water pack, 
>> eliminating
>> the risk of breakage, just as you say. the goop isnt exactly cheap, but 
>> it
>> works rather effectively on high temp applications.
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Joe Street" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: 
>> Sent: Monday, May 15, 2006 9:26 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Solar Concentrator & PV Modules
>>
>>
>> > Silicon is quite fragile especially the thin polysilicon material used
>> > in cells.  You are right but any water pressure would break the cells.
>> > You need to bond them onto a heat conducting back plate like copper or
>> > aluminum with a heat conducting cement.  Aso the back is an electrical
>> > contact so you need isolation there.
>> >
>> > Joe
>> >
>> > Jason & Katie wrote:
>> >
>> >> in theory, if one could find a way to waterproof the back of a PV cell 
>> >> it
>> >> could be used as the heat-side plate in this concentrator/boiler found 
>> >> at
>> >> (or after) http://www.ida.net/users/tetonsl/solar/page_46.htm you 
>> >> could
>> >> safely increase the power range of a smaller PV cell without too 
>> >> horrible
>> >> of
>> >> a heat loss. the problem is finding a sealing substance that wont melt 
>> >> or
>> >> burn under these 1200*F temperatures.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> - Original Message -
>> >> From: "logan vilas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> >> To: 
>> >> Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 4:54 PM
>> >> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Solar Concentrator & PV Modules
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>>I am working with the idea of building my own Concentrator with about 
>> >>>50
>> >>>times the mirror space then collector space. That Is why the question 
>> >>>was
>> >>>asked in the first place I was wondering if placeing a 50watt solar 
>> >>>panel
>> >>>at
>> >>>the focal point would increase the power output. I've read that it is
>> >>>more
>> >>>then 100% liner increase in power output when increasing the amount of
>> >>>light
>> >>>on it. a normal panel at 50 watts would be 2500 watts at 50 suns. I 
>> >>>know
>> >>>it
>> >>>would need to be kept cool. due to the fact that they are only 20-30%
>> >>>efficent, but I could use the coolant to heat my biodiesel processor,
>> >>>then
>> >>>the hot water going into my home before a tankless heater. If I were 
>> >>>to
>> >>>get
>> >>>a grid tied inverter It would suppliment my normal power useage and 
>> >>>maby
>> >>>with netmetering it might come close to canceling out my power
>> >>>requirements
>> >>>alltogther. a simple temp sensor could be used so if the temp is over
>> >>>150f
>> >>>in the coolant it will shut down and not collect the sun anymore. As 
>> >>>for
>> >>>a
>> >>>solar tracker that is relative easy with very simple electronics. The
>> >>>setup
>> >>>to hold everything would be a simple build for most people who can 
>> >>>make
>> >>>their own biodiesel processor. And If I base it off a 7 meter dish I 
>> >>>can
>> >>>get
>> >>>those free. I just have to use the labor to remove it.
>> >>>
>> >>>Logan Vilas
>> >>>- Original Message -
>> >>>From: "Zeke Yewdall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> >>>To: 
>> >>>Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 3:59 PM
>> >>>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Solar Concentrator & PV Modules
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> I am speaking mostly from experience, from what I have seen work and
>> fail in the field, and what I can buy to install for my clients. The
>> reason I talk about trackers on large poles is because that is w

Re: [Biofuel] Solar Concentrator & PV Modules

[Jason & Katie]

that's just a touchbit extreme...

- Original Message - 
From: Michael Redler
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Monday, May 15, 2006 7:25 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Solar Concentrator & PV Modules



As we all know, there are a lot of ways to harvest waste heat but the one 
that stands out in my mind is from a message posted about six months ago. I 
don't know if this is a solution, but I'm definitely curious to know one way 
or the other.

http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg59540.html

1) Oils are generally non-conductive so, the PV cells can be immersed in it 
without shorting.

2.) Some oils can come with fairly good optical qualities - important for 
passing light to PV and transforming light to electricity.

Joe: I remember reading your post about experimenting with black bodies and 
it looks like you have a background that may be useful here. Maybe you can 
chime in (if your reading this thread)?


Mike


Zeke Yewdall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
This is basically what I did. kludging would be the word for it, as
about once a week it would have a catestrophic leak and I'd have to
rebuild it. Worked okay to get research data, but obviuosly not long
term I found that preheating water for domestic hot water (which
could have final heating done either by real solar thermal collectors,
or gas/electric/etc) seemed to be the best. Try to get it too hot and
the efficiency dropped way off (I had water tubes touching the back of
the PV module, but no front glazing), plus it didn't cool the PV cells
enough to help with electrical efficiency much either. The trick is
to size the storage tank and PV area with the daily draw to still get
the cooling effect and not stagnate the tank. I suppose with a
different collector design you could obtain higher temperatures, and
still probably not damage the PV module (unless the circulation loop
stagnated, then I'm not sure), but I was going more for cooling the
PV, and seeing the collected thermal energy could be useful, rather
than having high quality thermal energy as the primary goal. Given
that typical solar thermal DHW system here in the US don't achieve
100% solar fraction anyway, I figured that preheat was a decent way to
go. If you wanted to go for 100% solar fraction (which is what we
should be doing long term) cascading it with a higher temp solar
thermal collector might be alot better.

On 5/15/06, Chip Mefford wrote:
> Zeke Yewdall wrote:
> > This is exactly what I did my master's thesis on. The concept works
> > pretty well from a theoretical perspective. I was just investigating
> > using water cooling for non-concrentrating PV, but it would work even
> > better for concentrating PV. You shouldn't really have to deal with
> > 1200F, at least if you are talking about water, because the maximum
> > working temp for a water based fluid is probably about 400F or so??
> > (assuming antifreeze additives and increased pressure). Depends on
> > how much pressure you are talking about I guess.
> >
>
> l was thinking of kludging up water jackets for PV panels, to feed
> the INFLOW for a small evacuated tube solar heater, preheating the
> inflow by 'cooling' the PVs.
>
> Do you think this makes sense?




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Re: [Biofuel] Solar Concentrator & PV Modules

[Michael Redler]

   As we all know, there are a lot of ways to harvest waste heat but the one that stands out in my mind is from a message posted about six months ago. I don't know if this is a solution, but I'm definitely curious to know one way or the other.http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg59540.html  1) Oils are generally non-conductive so, the PV cells can be immersed in it without shorting.2.) Some oils can come with fairly good optical qualities - important for passing light to PV and transforming light to electricity.Joe: I remember reading your post about experimenting with black bodies and it looks like you have a background that may be useful here. Maybe you can chime in (if your reading this thread)?Mike  Zeke Yewdall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 wrote:  This is basically what I did. kludging would be the word for it, asabout once a week it would have a catestrophic leak and I'd have torebuild it. Worked okay to get research data, but obviuosly not longterm I found that preheating water for domestic hot water (whichcould have final heating done either by real solar thermal collectors,or gas/electric/etc) seemed to be the best. Try to get it too hot andthe efficiency dropped way off (I had water tubes touching the back ofthe PV module, but no front glazing), plus it didn't cool the PV cellsenough to help with electrical efficiency much either. The trick isto size the storage tank and PV area with the daily draw to still getthe cooling effect and not stagnate the tank. I suppose with adifferent collector design you could obtain higher temperatures, andstill
 probably not damage the PV module (unless the circulation loopstagnated, then I'm not sure), but I was going more for cooling thePV, and seeing the collected thermal energy could be useful, ratherthan having high quality thermal energy as the primary goal. Giventhat typical solar thermal DHW system here in the US don't achieve100% solar fraction anyway, I figured that preheat was a decent way togo. If you wanted to go for 100% solar fraction (which is what weshould be doing long term) cascading it with a higher temp solarthermal collector might be alot better.On 5/15/06, Chip Mefford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:> Zeke Yewdall wrote:> > This is exactly what I did my master's thesis on. The concept works> > pretty well from a theoretical perspective. I was just investigating> > using water cooling for non-concrentrating PV, but it would work even> > better for concentrating PV. You shouldn't
 really have to deal with> > 1200F, at least if you are talking about water, because the maximum> > working temp for a water based fluid is probably about 400F or so??> > (assuming antifreeze additives and increased pressure). Depends on> > how much pressure you are talking about I guess.> >>> l was thinking of kludging up water jackets for PV panels, to feed> the INFLOW for a small evacuated tube solar heater, preheating the> inflow by 'cooling' the PVs.>> Do you think this makes sense?___
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Re: [Biofuel] Solar Concentrator & PV Modules

[Zeke Yewdall]

Google Richard Komp.  His book is called something like "practical
photovoltaics".  In the back of it, he's got a design for a
concentrating PV/thermal collectors.  I haven't looked at it for a
while, but if I recall, he soldered a copper plate to a copper pipe,
then glued the PV cells to the copper plate with silicon glue, maybe
with a piece of plastic in between to make sure it didn't short out???
 Can't vouch that I remember the details right, but that's what I
recall.  Then a semi-parabolic trough reflector to concentrate about 3
or 4 suns on it.

On 5/15/06, Jason & Katie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> aha, this is where i find a new idea.
>
> the dielectric heat grease used between processors and heat sinks /should/
> work to electrically insulate the cell from the water pack (not jackets, a
> flat sleeve covering the back with circulated coolant completely filling it)
> while conducting heat into the cooling vanes in the water pack, eliminating
> the risk of breakage, just as you say. the goop isnt exactly cheap, but it
> works rather effectively on high temp applications.
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Joe Street" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Monday, May 15, 2006 9:26 AM
> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Solar Concentrator & PV Modules
>
>
> > Silicon is quite fragile especially the thin polysilicon material used
> > in cells.  You are right but any water pressure would break the cells.
> > You need to bond them onto a heat conducting back plate like copper or
> > aluminum with a heat conducting cement.  Aso the back is an electrical
> > contact so you need isolation there.
> >
> > Joe
> >
> > Jason & Katie wrote:
> >
> >> in theory, if one could find a way to waterproof the back of a PV cell it
> >> could be used as the heat-side plate in this concentrator/boiler found at
> >> (or after) http://www.ida.net/users/tetonsl/solar/page_46.htm you could
> >> safely increase the power range of a smaller PV cell without too horrible
> >> of
> >> a heat loss. the problem is finding a sealing substance that wont melt or
> >> burn under these 1200*F temperatures.
> >>
> >>
> >> - Original Message -
> >> From: "logan vilas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> To: 
> >> Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 4:54 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Solar Concentrator & PV Modules
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>I am working with the idea of building my own Concentrator with about 50
> >>>times the mirror space then collector space. That Is why the question was
> >>>asked in the first place I was wondering if placeing a 50watt solar panel
> >>>at
> >>>the focal point would increase the power output. I've read that it is
> >>>more
> >>>then 100% liner increase in power output when increasing the amount of
> >>>light
> >>>on it. a normal panel at 50 watts would be 2500 watts at 50 suns. I know
> >>>it
> >>>would need to be kept cool. due to the fact that they are only 20-30%
> >>>efficent, but I could use the coolant to heat my biodiesel processor,
> >>>then
> >>>the hot water going into my home before a tankless heater. If I were to
> >>>get
> >>>a grid tied inverter It would suppliment my normal power useage and maby
> >>>with netmetering it might come close to canceling out my power
> >>>requirements
> >>>alltogther. a simple temp sensor could be used so if the temp is over
> >>>150f
> >>>in the coolant it will shut down and not collect the sun anymore. As for
> >>>a
> >>>solar tracker that is relative easy with very simple electronics. The
> >>>setup
> >>>to hold everything would be a simple build for most people who can make
> >>>their own biodiesel processor. And If I base it off a 7 meter dish I can
> >>>get
> >>>those free. I just have to use the labor to remove it.
> >>>
> >>>Logan Vilas
> >>>- Original Message -
> >>>From: "Zeke Yewdall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >>>To: 
> >>>Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 3:59 PM
> >>>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Solar Concentrator & PV Modules
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> I am speaking mostly from experience, from what I have seen work and
> fail in the field, and what I can buy to install for my clients. The
> reason I talk about trackers on large poles is because that is what is
> commercially sold right now (at least in the US, europe is ahead of us
> in many areas).  And the biggest reason I see for failed systems is
> lack of maintenance (mostly batteries, but also anything that moves).
> Also, the number of new innovative PV systems that I have seen come on
> the market over the years, only to dissapear within another year...
> We're still basically doing the same thing as PV was in the 70's, with
> incremental improvements in efficiency and incremental cost decreases.
> I called the concrentrating PV exotic merely because I can't call up
> one of 200 some suppliers and buy one that meets all current
> electrical code, whereas I can with silicon PV modules.  Maybe another
> breakthrough is coming, but in the mean time, alot of people will keep
> >

Re: [Biofuel] Solar Concentrator & PV Modules

[Jason & Katie]

aha, this is where i find a new idea.

the dielectric heat grease used between processors and heat sinks /should/ 
work to electrically insulate the cell from the water pack (not jackets, a 
flat sleeve covering the back with circulated coolant completely filling it) 
while conducting heat into the cooling vanes in the water pack, eliminating 
the risk of breakage, just as you say. the goop isnt exactly cheap, but it 
works rather effectively on high temp applications.

- Original Message - 
From: "Joe Street" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Monday, May 15, 2006 9:26 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Solar Concentrator & PV Modules


> Silicon is quite fragile especially the thin polysilicon material used
> in cells.  You are right but any water pressure would break the cells.
> You need to bond them onto a heat conducting back plate like copper or
> aluminum with a heat conducting cement.  Aso the back is an electrical
> contact so you need isolation there.
>
> Joe
>
> Jason & Katie wrote:
>
>> in theory, if one could find a way to waterproof the back of a PV cell it
>> could be used as the heat-side plate in this concentrator/boiler found at
>> (or after) http://www.ida.net/users/tetonsl/solar/page_46.htm you could
>> safely increase the power range of a smaller PV cell without too horrible 
>> of
>> a heat loss. the problem is finding a sealing substance that wont melt or
>> burn under these 1200*F temperatures.
>>
>>
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: "logan vilas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: 
>> Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 4:54 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Solar Concentrator & PV Modules
>>
>>
>>
>>>I am working with the idea of building my own Concentrator with about 50
>>>times the mirror space then collector space. That Is why the question was
>>>asked in the first place I was wondering if placeing a 50watt solar panel
>>>at
>>>the focal point would increase the power output. I've read that it is 
>>>more
>>>then 100% liner increase in power output when increasing the amount of
>>>light
>>>on it. a normal panel at 50 watts would be 2500 watts at 50 suns. I know
>>>it
>>>would need to be kept cool. due to the fact that they are only 20-30%
>>>efficent, but I could use the coolant to heat my biodiesel processor, 
>>>then
>>>the hot water going into my home before a tankless heater. If I were to
>>>get
>>>a grid tied inverter It would suppliment my normal power useage and maby
>>>with netmetering it might come close to canceling out my power
>>>requirements
>>>alltogther. a simple temp sensor could be used so if the temp is over 
>>>150f
>>>in the coolant it will shut down and not collect the sun anymore. As for 
>>>a
>>>solar tracker that is relative easy with very simple electronics. The
>>>setup
>>>to hold everything would be a simple build for most people who can make
>>>their own biodiesel processor. And If I base it off a 7 meter dish I can
>>>get
>>>those free. I just have to use the labor to remove it.
>>>
>>>Logan Vilas
>>>- Original Message - 
>>>From: "Zeke Yewdall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>To: 
>>>Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 3:59 PM
>>>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Solar Concentrator & PV Modules
>>>
>>>
>>>
I am speaking mostly from experience, from what I have seen work and
fail in the field, and what I can buy to install for my clients. The
reason I talk about trackers on large poles is because that is what is
commercially sold right now (at least in the US, europe is ahead of us
in many areas).  And the biggest reason I see for failed systems is
lack of maintenance (mostly batteries, but also anything that moves).
Also, the number of new innovative PV systems that I have seen come on
the market over the years, only to dissapear within another year...
We're still basically doing the same thing as PV was in the 70's, with
incremental improvements in efficiency and incremental cost decreases.
I called the concrentrating PV exotic merely because I can't call up
one of 200 some suppliers and buy one that meets all current
electrical code, whereas I can with silicon PV modules.  Maybe another
breakthrough is coming, but in the mean time, alot of people will keep
using coal generated power because they are waiting for those
breakthroughs.  I would rather see working PV systems going in today,
even if they aren't all that high tech, rather than people thinking
they have to wait before solar energy can work for them -- and in the
mean time continuing to support coal and oil.   It's not that I want
to limit the new technology, but what I have seen is that the
layperson holds out the possibility of a paradigm shift in the
technology in the future as a reason to do absolutely nothing now.
And if I recall, the original question was about concentrating
sunlight on a normal old PV module -- which isn't the best idea --
they tried that at the carrizo solar plant in the early 80's, and a
few years 

Re: [Biofuel] Solar Concentrator & PV Modules

[Zeke Yewdall]

This is basically what I did.  kludging would be the word for it, as
about once a week it would have a catestrophic leak and I'd have to
rebuild it.   Worked okay to get research data, but obviuosly not long
term  I found that preheating water for domestic hot water (which
could have final heating done either by real solar thermal collectors,
or gas/electric/etc) seemed to be the best.  Try to get it too hot and
the efficiency dropped way off (I had water tubes touching the back of
the PV module, but no front glazing), plus it didn't cool the PV cells
enough to help with electrical efficiency much either.  The trick is
to size the storage tank and PV area with the daily draw to still get
the cooling effect and not stagnate the tank.   I suppose with a
different collector design you could obtain higher temperatures, and
still probably not damage the PV module (unless the circulation loop
stagnated, then I'm not sure), but I was going more for cooling the
PV, and seeing the collected thermal energy could be useful, rather
than having high quality thermal energy as the primary goal.  Given
that typical solar thermal DHW system here in the US don't achieve
100% solar fraction anyway, I figured that preheat was a decent way to
go.  If you wanted to go for 100% solar fraction (which is what we
should be doing long term) cascading it with a higher temp solar
thermal collector might be alot better.

On 5/15/06, Chip Mefford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Zeke Yewdall wrote:
> > This is exactly what I did my master's thesis on.  The concept works
> > pretty well from a theoretical perspective.  I was just investigating
> > using water cooling for non-concrentrating PV, but it would work even
> > better for concentrating PV.  You shouldn't really have to deal with
> > 1200F, at least if you are talking about water, because the maximum
> > working temp for a water based fluid is probably about 400F or so??
> > (assuming antifreeze additives and increased pressure).  Depends on
> > how much pressure you are talking about I guess.
> >
>
> l was thinking of kludging up water jackets for PV panels, to feed
> the INFLOW for a small evacuated tube solar heater, preheating the
> inflow by 'cooling' the PVs.
>
> Do you think this makes sense?
>
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>
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>
>

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Re: [Biofuel] Separating Glycerine

[Thomas Kelly]

Joe,
I've been wondering about this myself.
This was, in part, what I was asking. Do we simply have to neutralize 
the mix or do we have to achieve a particular pH?

 Would it be possible to measure the amount of acid needed to bring a 
known volume of the glycerine mix to the desired pH and then extrapolate to 
the volume of cocktail we have at hand?
 Todd S. describes (at JTF: "Separating Glycerine") how to calculate the 
amount of acid needed for glyc. cocktail of unknown history. It is 
effective, but one must have patience.
I suspect that many people do not split the mix because it's a bit 
confusing or sounds difficult.
   Tom
- Original Message - 
From: "Joe Street" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Monday, May 15, 2006 2:49 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Separating Glycerine


> Further to Tom's inquiry;
>
> My issue is that I have a small reactor and so I only produce a small
> amount of the glycerine cocktail.  By the time I have a cubie full of
> cocktail it is the remains of several batches of fuel which makes it
> difficult to guage the amount of caustic it contains. Is there a way to
> titrate the cocktail?  If you don't want to answer just say bat guanno
> and I'll get the hint. LOL
>
> Joe
>
> Thomas Kelly wrote:
>
>> Hello to all,
>>The short version:
>>  1.  To split the glycerine cocktail must one merely neutralize the
>> NaOH/KOH used to produce it or is it necessary to go beyond neutral, to
>> acid?
>>  2.   If it must be acidic,
>>  if one knows how much H3PO4 it takes to neutralize the mix, can one
>> predict how much more H3PO4 it will take, to get the split?
>>
>> The long version:
>>  On 4/10/06 Todd Swearingen, in a post entitled "Re: Separating
>> Glycerine" suggested that I would need to add 510 - 590 ml of 85%
>> phosphoric acid to each cubie (4.5 gal/17.7L plastic container) of
>> glycerine cocktail to achieve a split.
>>  Sure enough, when I added 540 ml (lowest) - 580ml (highest) of 85%
>> H3PO4 to the next cubies of glycerine mix I got separation into mineral
>> precip, crude glycerine, & free fatty acids.
>>  I've been wondering ever since how he was able to make the
>> calculation/prediction    or is he just a good guesser?
>>
>>  On 12/02/05 Bioclaire Nederland described how to calculate the
>> amount of H3PO4 to add for separation if one knew the amount of NaOH
>> used to process the WVO that yielded the Glycerine cocktail. (See
>> "separating Glycerine" & "separating Glycerine Mistake!").
>>  The explanation is based on the equation for neutralizing NaOH
>> using H3PO4.
>> H3PO4   +   3NaOH   -->  Na3PO4   +  3H2O
>> 1 Mole (98g) of H3PO4 will neutralize 3Moles (120g) NaOH
>>
>>  If one knows how much NaOH (or KOH) was used in the batch(es) that
>> produced the Glycerine cocktail it should be possible to calculate how
>> much H3PO4 it would take to neutralize (and split?) the mix.
>>
>> Here is where the problem, and questions come in:
>>  The Glycerine mix I was using (4.5 gal/17.7L) containers each came
>> from two  76L batches (152 L WVO, total).
>> The oil I used for these batches titrated at 1.0 - 1.5 g NaOH/L of
>> WVO. (684 - 760 g of NaOH)
>>  Adjusting for 85% H3PO4 (115g of 85% H3PO4 would contain the 98g -
>> i.e. 1M.- of H3PO4) and using the density of 85% H3PO4 (~ 1.59g/ml),
>> that I should only need 460ml of the 85% H3PO4 to neutralize the lye
>> used to process the oil.
>>  Not all of the lye is in the glycerine cocktail. Some is in the BD.
>> I use 0.20 ml H3PO4/L of oil processed when I do my first wash (15ml/76L
>> batch or 30ml for two batches). This results in wash water very close to
>> neutral suggesting to me that approximately 50 g of the lye used to
>> process the WVO comes out in the BD, not in the Glyc. mix. The 710g of
>> lye that is in the glyc. mix should only take about 430 ml of the 85%
>> H3PO4 to be neutralized.
>>
>>  None of the cubies would separate w less than 540ml of the 85%
>> H3PO4. This suggests that it takes more than merely neutralizing the
>> glycerine mix to get it to split.
>> (Answer to Ques #1?)
>>Note:  I'm  doing a lot of this in my basement or in a shed out back,
>> not a lab.
>>  So how did you do it Todd?Neutralize + 20%?
>>  If it's a secret, include the word iguana anywhere in your response
>> and I'll drop the subject.
>>Still puzzled
>>  Tom
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>> ___
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>>
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>> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>>
>> Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,

Re: [Biofuel] Solar Concentrator & PV Modules

[Chip Mefford]

Zeke Yewdall wrote:
> This is exactly what I did my master's thesis on.  The concept works
> pretty well from a theoretical perspective.  I was just investigating
> using water cooling for non-concrentrating PV, but it would work even
> better for concentrating PV.  You shouldn't really have to deal with
> 1200F, at least if you are talking about water, because the maximum
> working temp for a water based fluid is probably about 400F or so??
> (assuming antifreeze additives and increased pressure).  Depends on
> how much pressure you are talking about I guess.
> 

l was thinking of kludging up water jackets for PV panels, to feed
the INFLOW for a small evacuated tube solar heater, preheating the
inflow by 'cooling' the PVs.

Do you think this makes sense?

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Re: [Biofuel] More Gardening News - micro ley farming

[Keith Addison]

Hi Joe

>Fish emulsion works well as a fertilizer in my experience which is
>admittedly limited.  My house plants love it and I haven't seen any sign
>of toxic buildup as can easily happen with chemical salts in in small
>pots.

Fish emulsion comes from sea fish and probably has more minerals than 
if it were made from freshwater fish. Certainly it's milder than 
chemical salts, but there's no need for fertilisers anyway - not even 
in houseplants if you use real soil.

Seaweed emulsion is useful, though it works in a different way.

Much more about all this at our Small Farms Library (but not much 
about fish emulsion).

Fish production on a small farm or in a micro-ley system would give 
you fish to each and more recycling options for tighter integration 
and more efficiency.
http://journeytoforever.org/farm_pond.html
Aquaculture for small farmers

http://www.kurtsaxon.com/foods007.htm
RAISING CATFISH IN A BARREL

http://journeytoforever.org/compost_worm.html
Vermicomposting

Best

Keith


>Watch out using it outdoors though as many small animals such as
>racoons, possums, dogs and cats will be tempted to come and dig the soil
>with the fishy smell.
>
>Joe
>
>Keith Addison wrote:
> >
> > I think so. If the results of large-scale ley farming and what we've
> > done so far with micro-ley farming are anything to judge by, then the
> > end of that line, >organic gardening, can be looped back to the
> > beginning - >animal and >animal wastes - more efficiently. We're
> > thinking of adding fish into the micro-ley farming loop, I think
> > there are lots of ways of doing it.
> >
> > Best wishes
> >
> > Keith


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Re: [Biofuel] Separating Glycerine

[Joe Street]

Further to Tom's inquiry;

My issue is that I have a small reactor and so I only produce a small 
amount of the glycerine cocktail.  By the time I have a cubie full of 
cocktail it is the remains of several batches of fuel which makes it 
difficult to guage the amount of caustic it contains. Is there a way to 
titrate the cocktail?  If you don't want to answer just say bat guanno 
and I'll get the hint. LOL

Joe

Thomas Kelly wrote:

> Hello to all,
>The short version:
>  1.  To split the glycerine cocktail must one merely neutralize the 
> NaOH/KOH used to produce it or is it necessary to go beyond neutral, to 
> acid?
>  2.   If it must be acidic, 
>  if one knows how much H3PO4 it takes to neutralize the mix, can one 
> predict how much more H3PO4 it will take, to get the split?
>  
> The long version:
>  On 4/10/06 Todd Swearingen, in a post entitled "Re: Separating 
> Glycerine" suggested that I would need to add 510 - 590 ml of 85% 
> phosphoric acid to each cubie (4.5 gal/17.7L plastic container) of 
> glycerine cocktail to achieve a split. 
>  Sure enough, when I added 540 ml (lowest) - 580ml (highest) of 85% 
> H3PO4 to the next cubies of glycerine mix I got separation into mineral 
> precip, crude glycerine, & free fatty acids.
>  I've been wondering ever since how he was able to make the 
> calculation/prediction    or is he just a good guesser?
>  
>  On 12/02/05 Bioclaire Nederland described how to calculate the 
> amount of H3PO4 to add for separation if one knew the amount of NaOH 
> used to process the WVO that yielded the Glycerine cocktail. (See 
> "separating Glycerine" & "separating Glycerine Mistake!").
>  The explanation is based on the equation for neutralizing NaOH 
> using H3PO4.
> H3PO4   +   3NaOH   -->  Na3PO4   +  3H2O
> 1 Mole (98g) of H3PO4 will neutralize 3Moles (120g) NaOH
>  
>  If one knows how much NaOH (or KOH) was used in the batch(es) that 
> produced the Glycerine cocktail it should be possible to calculate how 
> much H3PO4 it would take to neutralize (and split?) the mix.
>  
> Here is where the problem, and questions come in:
>  The Glycerine mix I was using (4.5 gal/17.7L) containers each came 
> from two  76L batches (152 L WVO, total).
> The oil I used for these batches titrated at 1.0 - 1.5 g NaOH/L of 
> WVO. (684 - 760 g of NaOH)
>  Adjusting for 85% H3PO4 (115g of 85% H3PO4 would contain the 98g - 
> i.e. 1M.- of H3PO4) and using the density of 85% H3PO4 (~ 1.59g/ml), 
> that I should only need 460ml of the 85% H3PO4 to neutralize the lye 
> used to process the oil.
>  Not all of the lye is in the glycerine cocktail. Some is in the BD. 
> I use 0.20 ml H3PO4/L of oil processed when I do my first wash (15ml/76L 
> batch or 30ml for two batches). This results in wash water very close to 
> neutral suggesting to me that approximately 50 g of the lye used to 
> process the WVO comes out in the BD, not in the Glyc. mix. The 710g of 
> lye that is in the glyc. mix should only take about 430 ml of the 85% 
> H3PO4 to be neutralized.
>  
>  None of the cubies would separate w less than 540ml of the 85% 
> H3PO4. This suggests that it takes more than merely neutralizing the 
> glycerine mix to get it to split.
> (Answer to Ques #1?)
>Note:  I'm  doing a lot of this in my basement or in a shed out back, 
> not a lab.
>  So how did you do it Todd?Neutralize + 20%?
>  If it's a secret, include the word iguana anywhere in your response 
> and I'll drop the subject.
>Still puzzled
>  Tom
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
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> 


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Re: [Biofuel] Crude Glycerin and Hot Compost

[Keith Addison]

Hello Tom

>Keith,
> You wrote:
> "Our compost quite often goes up to the 70s or the mid-70s C (160-170 deg
>F), usually by the next day. That causes me no concern at all."
>I'm glad I didn't get this post yesterday. I don't think I would have
>gotten as much work done.Upon reading Tom Irwin's post I was worried about
>pasteurizing my "heap". The earthy smell and the steam coming off that pile
>as I turned it was a thing to behold. To Tom Irwin: right or wrong about
>upper temps for compost piles, I appreciate your response. I got a great
>deal of work done that I'd been putting off. It gave me a great appetite for
>dinner and last night I slept like a baby.
>
>Keith asked:
>"Have you read these? Basic texts on scientific composting by the man who
>invented it, in India 80 years ago. "
>1. An Agricultural Testament, Albert Howard
>2. The Waste Products of Agriculture -- Their Utilization as Humus by
>Albert Howard and Yeshwant D. Wad, Oxford University Press, London,
>1931
> I have not. At a glance, they seem to have much stricter
>rules/guidelines than I tend to follow. I'm just carrying on a family
>tradition of making "garden dirt".

Not planning to change what you do Tom. Try this:
http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library/howard.html
The work of Sir Albert Howard

Introduction to "An Agricultural Testament"
http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library/howardAT/AT1.html

Quick, good read.

>My grandfather had a wonderful pile of sifted "dirt" that he made himself
>and was supposed to be the secret to his gardening success.
> About 30 years ago I took a course called "Soil Microbiology" and was
>formally introduced to composting by  a professor who loved gardening as
>much as he loved microbes. Composting was the culmination of a unit on the
>role of microbes in recycling matter. It was at that time that I came upon a
>simple layering design for making compost.
>
> Keith also asked:
> "What are the economics of it for you Tom? How much did the phosphoric cost
>you, and how much of it did you buy?"
>
> I bought a 15 gal drum (57 L) of phosphoric acid for $220 (US). It's
>expensive. If all one cares about is the economics, then the glycerine
>cocktail is essentially a waste product of the process and can be disposed
>of however conscience allows.
>  I think it's roughly a break even proposition with me. The recovered
>methanol  essentially pays for the phosphoric acid.

That's a good point. Thanks for the info.

Regards

Keith


>I know that methanol can
>be recovered w/o splitting the glycerine mix, but you're still left with
>highly caustic glycerine/lye/soap to deal with
> There have been some comments about the feeling of filling the tank
>with a recent batch of homebrew. Putting the other products of the process
>to good use also feels good.
> I also have taken to adding a small amount of phosphoric acid (.20 ml/
>L of processed WVO) to my first wash   ... thanks again for the suggestion
>Todd. For me, this comes to about 18 ml/batch ( ~ 7 cents). It not only has
>reduced my washes from 4 to 3, but also makes the wash water from the first
>wash easier to dispose of.
>I now pour it at the base of shrubs around the edge of my property.
>   Tom
>
>
>- Original Message -
>From: "Keith Addison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: 
>Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 3:14 PM
>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Crude Glycerin and Hot Compost
>
>
> > >Hello Thomas and all,
> >>
> >>Temperatures above 65 C. are generally considerred to be limiting in
> >>that they tend to kill off large groups of microorganisms and slow
> >>down the composting process. I suggest turning the pile when
> >>temperatures get that high or you will pasturize the pile and need
> >>to regrow your biomass once the pile cools down. Large compost piles
> >>(usually in a curing/storage stage) have been known to catch on fire
> >>if permitted to dry out too much because they had not finished
> >>degrading bug edible material.
> >
> > Our compost quite often goes up to the 70s or the mid-70s C (160-170
> > deg F), usually by the next day. That causes me no concern at all.
> > More often it's around the mid-60s though.
> >
> > It's not like making biodiesel, hotter than 65 C and you lose the
> > methanol and it fails. What happens inside a compost pile is very
> > complex, it's not that simple as that you kill off all the good guys
> > when it gets "too" hot. I don't think it ever gets too hot.
> >
> > You certainly don't need to regrow anything afterwards.
> >
> > If you turn it, it happens all by itself and gets hot again, until it
> > cools down again. You might not need to turn it, it depends how you
> > make it and what it's made of.
> >
> > If you made it properly it won't run out of water at high
> > temperatures and catch fire. When that happens (it's easy with
> > chicken manure) it just loses steam and cools down again. More water
> > and it heats up again. Once it's finally cooled down and everything
> >

Re: [Biofuel] The Hidden Agenda Behind the Bird Flu Hoax

[Chip Mefford]

Michael Redler wrote:
> Only if they can use tax dollars to build gulags and assassinate with 
> impunity.
>   
>   We're not their yet.
>   
>   Mike

We're not likely to go there either.

We have the power of TV's "Desperate Housewives,
and The Sopranos" to keep most folks from paying
attention to anything.

We have Fox news to master whatever spin is needed,
we have CNN to neatly encapsulate anything into
a ticker-tape annoucement, while on another channel,
is a fascinating show about Cops in Action, competing
for the viewers attention.

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain,

All is well.

Nothing can go wrong.

We don't need gulags, and Assassinations
are so old-school. A simple bit of media
spin can undo any legitimate critic, and keep
most reasonable folks completely out of the
political arena.

Would *YOU* like a team hand picked by Carl
Rove to expend a few hundred thousand to
millions of dollars researching every single
aspect of your life, and the lives of everyone
close to you, looking for something that can
be spun, mis-conveyed, misrepresented to make
your political career die on the vine?
I know I don't. What I take away from that, is
that anyone who does go into arena, already
has an *understanding*. Meaning, none of them
are going to /actually/ take on the power structure.

They make some noise, but it's that same disengenuous
crap, like proscuting DAs who state flatly that
giving a physical spouse-abuser, child abuser, whatever,
a serious tongue lashing and suspended sentence,
will "teach them a lesson."

Like fining corporate polluters, or more to the point,
showing them they have to pay a fee to completely
ignore the laws.

All the while, spending hundreds of millions to
billions over 30 years, to stack the courts with
pro-industry judiciaies.

Time is on /their/ side.

They don't need gulags and assassinations.

They have money.

So, as to "we're not that bad, because we don't
have assassinations and gulags" I say, "So what?".


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[Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water

[Keith Addison]

Hello Chris

Discussed before, when it appeared:
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg55366.html
[Biofuel] Fuel can be made from dead cats
15 Sep 2005

And debunked - he didn't say it:
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg55439.html
[Biofuel] pussy makes car Purr - was a theoritical point
16 Sep 2005

Best

Keith


>Sorry Richard, but your cat usefulness law doesn't "hold water". 
>Here's evidence to the contrary:
>
>
>September 14, 2005
>
>FORGET DRILLING ANWR! HERE KITTY, KITTY...:
>
>index.html>Inventor fuels car with dead cats (Wednesday, September 
>14, 2005, Reuters via CNN)
>
>A German inventor has angered animal rights activists with his 
>answer to fighting the soaring cost of fuel -- dead cats.
>
>Christian Koch, 55, from the eastern county of Saxony, told Bild 
>newspaper that his organic diesel fuel -- a homemade blend of 
>garbage, run-over cats and other ingredients -- is a proven 
>alternative to normal consumer diesel.
>
>"I drive my normal diesel-powered car with this mixture," Koch said. 
>"I have gone 170,000 km (106,000 miles) without a problem."
>
>The best two-fer yet: Eliminate any need for higher gas taxes AND 
>the annoyance of cats in one fell swoop? Pinch me.
>
>Posted by John Resnick at September 14, 2005 06:25 PM


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Re: [Biofuel] Wood ash lye - was Re: New Biodiesel Catalyst and process

[Keith Addison]

Ola Pannir

>Ola,
>
> Keith , Manick  and all.
>
>   Even though  , the  debate , doughts  go on for the long time 
>here about this topic  , it is not yet clear to me about  the real 
>value of  obtaining the new  catalyst  from ash.And I suppose also 
>that the same  for some of  our list members too .
>As Manick has pointed out that the potassium carbonate is the  major 
>one in ash ,

It varies quite widely. There's usually more calcium than potassium.

>It will be interesting some one here bringing the information about 
>the  average chemical composition of the ash.As I understand that 
>the carbonate can be also act as the  catalyst,

That's why I said it might not be a problem: "Trouble is the content 
of wood ash varies widely. Another problem is that the KOH is mixed 
with potassium carbonate, and some sodium too. Which may not be as 
big a problem as it sounds."

>may be  the combination of the several non metallic  Na, K, Ca , 
>Silica can be  more  powerful  catalyst too, thus making the 
>explanation to the  good result's  reported , even the reaction 
>going under room temperature. How ever reproducing the  result with 
>the use of the ash is another problem too  to get the results 
>reproduced.

It should be okay if you calibrate it each time against standard NaOH 
or standard KOH, so you can see how much to use.

If it works, there's certainly an advantage in not having to buy 
catalyst and getting it instead from a readily available sustainable 
source that you can provide for yourself.

>  As used WVO  has been already cracked ,  can be  also another path 
>to make the  low temperature catalyst , any heating the oil to 
>remove the water is an pretreatment needed, thus optimization of 
>this heating process , like  the very slight pyrolysis  shown to be 
>effective to crack  and separate out the glycerin with very little 
>loss , yet to be achieved in practice .

I'm not sure what you mean. How do you use pyrolysis this way?

>Thus  the combined  KOH making from ash , the pretreatment of 
>the soft pyrolysis by heating the oil  and  light cracking  to 
>separate out glycerin  as pretreatment, then the low temperature 
>catalysis  can be very promising new root  with new low cost 
>catalyst , with out need for  reusable  costlier catalyst. This root 
>can be well easily home made  by any poor man too.

We're doing all that except the cracking, which I don't understand.

>No need for methoxy combination of alcohol  with catalysts.

That's where you lose me.

>Thus the data's  available to  all of us show that such simple 
>solutions to the complex problems  may be possible.

Simple solutions are certainly possible.

>   Let all of  us  share  our views. If simple method can work  , we 
>may end up the war based on non renewable , as the people can make 
>the bio fuel as simple as to make the soap , or salt , with out the 
>need for big investments and machines , but involving the art as 
>well as social technology based on  our collaborative  work  , with 
>no need for huge machine and instrumentation , thus we all can 
>transfer this process to all the place where there is real need 
>.This new process can be reality  , if all our list sharing capacity 
>very   high.

I think it IS a reality, without a new process.

> More experimental result's are needed  using slaked lime converting 
>the  carbonates into more powerful , practical  catalyst for rural 
>areas.

It might not be necessary if the combination of KOH and potassium 
carbonate found in wood ash is found to work effectively.

Best wishes

Keith


>Thus the method  pointed out by Manick  can prove to more useful to 
>render to come over practical catalyst .
>
> Some conclusions are needed on this very long new catalyst thread 
>of very important topics.Some patents are available.we need to bring 
>here all the patents  some about carbonate too Will this can be 
>effective or not .
>
>Expect  good results in this new process and new catalytic root.
>
>
>SD
>
>Pannirselvam.
>
>
>
>
>Manick Harris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>Hello Keith,all,
>The stuff you describe has a lot of potassium carbonate which must 
>be converted to potassium hydroxide to make soap from veg oils. This 
>can be done by boiling with slaked lime. You will get liquid soap. 
>Get solid soap by washing this a few times with salt solution. I did 
>not carry out this reaction but my dad did during WW2 when we were 
>under Japanese regime here in Malaysia. He was running a soap 
>factory in Buntong, Ipoh and the soap was first distributed to 
>residents from the town field opposite St.Michael's School as any 
>Ipohite will testify. Although I was much younger I can vouch thatit 
>was indeed hard soap like any other which they were able to cut from 
>a block by using detachable boxes with slits and steel wires. May my 
>good dad RIP.
>manickh 
>
>Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>From another list, four years ago:
>
> Okay, try this:
> 
> >>>

[Biofuel] Separating Glycerine

[Thomas Kelly]

Hello to all,
   The short version:
 1.  To split the glycerine cocktail must 
one merely neutralize the NaOH/KOH used to produce it or is it necessary to go 
beyond neutral, to acid?
 2.   If it must be 
acidic, 
 if one knows how much 
H3PO4 it takes to neutralize the mix, can one predict how much more H3PO4 it 
will take, to get the split?
 
    The long version:
 On 4/10/06 Todd 
Swearingen, in a post entitled "Re: Separating Glycerine" suggested that I would 
need to add 510 - 590 ml of 85% phosphoric acid to each cubie (4.5 gal/17.7L 
plastic container) of glycerine cocktail to achieve a split. 
 Sure enough, when I added 
540 ml (lowest) - 580ml (highest) of 85% H3PO4 to the next cubies of 
glycerine mix I got separation into mineral precip, crude glycerine, & 
free fatty acids. 
 I've been wondering ever 
since how he was able to make the calculation/prediction  
  or is he just a good guesser?
 
 On 12/02/05 Bioclaire 
Nederland described how to calculate the amount of H3PO4 to add for separation 
if one knew the amount of NaOH used to process the WVO that yielded the 
Glycerine cocktail. (See "separating Glycerine" & "separating Glycerine 
Mistake!").
 The explanation is based 
on the equation for neutralizing NaOH using H3PO4.
    H3PO4   +   
3NaOH   -->  Na3PO4   +  3H2O
1 Mole (98g) of H3PO4 will neutralize 3Moles (120g) 
NaOH
 
 If one knows how much NaOH 
(or KOH) was used in the batch(es) that produced the Glycerine cocktail it 
should be possible to calculate how much H3PO4 it would take to neutralize (and 
split?) the mix.
 
Here is where the problem, and questions come 
in:
 The Glycerine mix I was 
using (4.5 gal/17.7L) containers each came from two  76L batches (152 
L WVO, total).
The oil I used for these batches titrated at 1.0 - 
1.5 g NaOH/L of WVO. (684 - 760 g of NaOH)
 Adjusting for 85% H3PO4 
(115g of 85% H3PO4 would contain the 98g - i.e. 1M.- of H3PO4) and using 
the density of 85% H3PO4 (~ 1.59g/ml), that I should only need 460ml of the 85% 
H3PO4 to neutralize the lye used to process the oil. 
 Not all of the lye is in 
the glycerine cocktail. Some is in the BD. I use 0.20 ml H3PO4/L of oil 
processed when I do my first wash (15ml/76L batch or 30ml for two batches). 
This results in wash water very close to neutral suggesting to me that 
approximately 50 g of the lye used to process the WVO comes out in the BD, not 
in the Glyc. mix. The 710g of lye that is in the glyc. mix should only take 
about 430 ml of the 85% H3PO4 to be neutralized.
 
 None of the cubies would 
separate w less than 540ml of the 85% H3PO4. This suggests that it takes more 
than merely neutralizing the glycerine mix to get it to split.
(Answer to Ques #1?)
   Note:  I'm  doing a lot 
of this in my basement or in a shed out back, not a lab. 
 So how did you do it 
Todd?    Neutralize + 20%?
 If it's a secret, include 
the word iguana anywhere in your response and I'll drop the 
subject.
   
Still puzzled
 
Tom
 
 
 
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Re: [Biofuel] biodiesel from algae in New Zealand

[Zeke Yewdall]

Well, I'm not fully up to date on this, but I do seem to remember they
were using GMO algae for biodiesel, so it actually is a bit
concerning, considering the problems that are already cropping up from
other GMO products.

Z

On 5/15/06, Jason & Katie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> not the alcohol they were complaining about, it was the unnatural,
> "domesticated" algae they were worried about escaping.
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Zeke Yewdall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2006 10:29 PM
> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] biodiesel from algae in New Zealand
>
>
> > the only reason it never was heard from again was the outcry against
> > possible leakages into the ocean.
>
> Isn't that ironic, considering all the oil tankers/cargo ships/hi
> powered sonar pollution/overfishing we already subject the ocean to.
> Some biodegradable biodiesel or alcohol is what we're concerned about
> ??
>
> On 5/14/06, Jason& Katie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > there was a proposal on this a while ago, it was involved in alcohol
> > production, and i remember a ship design somewhat like a lily that would
> > provide circulation using the waves in the ocean against a bladder pump.
> > the
> > whole thing would be solar powered, the pv cells being on the outer petals
> > and it would fold up and sink in bad weather. the proposal was that dozens
> > of these lily ships would be stationed around the equator and a few oil
> > tankers would be converted to carry alcohol and assigned a ferry schedule
> > for product, repairs, and crew.
> > the only reason it never was heard from again was the outcry against
> > possible leakages into the ocean.
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Tonomár András" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: 
> > Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2006 12:44 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Biofuel] biodiesel from algae in New Zealand
> >
> >
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > I hav also red about algees before and got me into thinking about a ship
> > > based BD
> > > plant flooting around the oceans.
> > >
> > > I would be into something like this.
> > >
> > > Do we have any info on how to...???
> > >
> > > Andrew
> > >
> > >
> > >> A commercial facility has produced the first biodiesel derived from
> > >> "wild" sewage algae in New Zealand.  Full article here:
> > >>
> > >> http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/story.cfm?c_id=1&ObjectID=10381404
> > >>
> > >> ___
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> > >>
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> > >> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> > >>
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> > > messages):
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> > >>
> > >
> > >
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> > > messages):
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> > >
> > >
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> > messages):
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> >
> >
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Re: [Biofuel] Mythbusters screw up.

[Zeke Yewdall]

Great rundown of the different injector systems, Doug.  Everything I
have seen has been type 2 (volkswagen, toyota, mitsibishi, and
cummins, I think?), except the mercedes (type 1), and detroit diesel
(type 3).  I haven't looked at a lot of the new ones, which are
increasingly going to type 4 though.

Zeke

On 5/15/06, lres1 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> As far as I knew there were only four major types of fuel injection pumps.
>
> 1/ An inline pump with each piston in the pump adjustable to give the right
> amount of injection with the changing quantities controlled by a rack
> against the back end of the piston plungers whose housings incorporate screw
> type lifts variable by the rack. That is the further the rack moves the
> further the plunger pistons move and the more fuel injected. Normally these
> are heavy duty pumps, expensive in the initial costs but very reliable and
> can take heavier fluids more so than types 2 and 4. Early H and B series
> Toyota engines, and many more.
>
> 2/ The DPA type rotary head pump with swash type arrangement to give
> delivery. Generally a very weak pump and in need of constant maintenance
> with one pump head feeding many injector nozzles. Not so well to operate as
> 1 above on heavier fluids.
>
> 3/ The single direct injection pump per cylinder run off an engine cam
> shaft. This is in single and multi-cylinder engines. A great advantage of
> these is they are so easy to repair, maintain and can be mostly done on the
> side of the road as repairs. There can be many cylinders with this type of
> independent pump per cylinder from 2 inch (Peters) to over 18 inches in
> diameter. This type of injector system is my preference as it enables much
> adjustment with very little technical equipment, (some just use shims and
> others are set like tappets in an engine) See Duetz and marine Kubota,
> Ruston singles to Ruston oil engines (crude oil injection direct, that stuff
> can be like bituminum) to "liberty" engines. very easy to modify to heavier
> fuels.
>
> 4/ The worst of the lot for me is the "common Rail" which uses a high
> pressure pump and then electronics to adjust timing and fuel flows. A real
> nightmare if heavy oils are used and hard to re-set the parameters on the
> Power Control Module or what ever the designer designated the computer
> control system as (PCM, ECM, PTCM etc). In amongst this lot is the Daimler
> Puch engine design. This being developed as the Styre engine, now in many
> configurations in vehicles, boats and other equipment as the power to weight
> ration is all but equal to that of gas/petrol. This type of engine normally
> injects twice per firing stroke, with the injectors and pumps being
> unit-construction with one per cylinder. Due to the abolition of high
> pressure fuel lines these injectors can inject at 3 to 4 rimes the pressure
> of a system as in 1 to 3 above. this gives the best possible burning but is
> sensitive to fuels and again is controlled by computerized   systems of
> carious makes. I have never seen a heavy fuel run in any of these engines.
> Has any one?
>
> I opt for one and three above as they are easiest to work on and clean,
> generally the injectors are basic as well and as long as shims are not mixed
> up the injectors can be stripped and cleaned in a home garage without a POP
> tester. All the other units are mostly throw aways once worn.
>
> Just some thoughts when choosing what engine to use.
>
> Doug.
>
> PS Has any one tried converting a 4.0 liter fuel injected Jeep Wrangler to
> ethanol of 895% and 15% water direct from fuel tank to injectors water and
> all?
>
>
>
> > Well, if they did it in Arizona in the Summer...
> >
> > Zeke Yewdall wrote:
> >
> > > A mercedes probably won't immediately die on  WVO.  It uses a gear
> > >driven plunger type injector pump instead of the more common timing
> > >belt driven rotary style.  From what I have heard, it can handle more
> > >viscous fluid alot easier.
> > >
> > >Of course, you'll still get coking of the injectors from cold oil, and
> > >if you try this on any other diesel other than a detroit diesel, which
> > >has piston type unit injectors, your injector pump won't be happy.
> > >
> > >So, yes, they blew it.  They just happened to pick the one vehical
> > >that would stand it for a while...
> > >
> > >On 5/14/06, Alan Petrillo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >>On Mythbusters episode 53
> > >>
> >
> >>http://dsc.discovery.com/fansites/mythbusters/episode/episode.html?clik=fa
> nmain_leftnav
> > >>
> > >>the Mythbusters tackled "The Great Gas Conspiracy".  One of the things
> > >>they covered was vegetable oil in diesels.
> > >>
> > >>They blew it.
> > >>
> > >>They ran a Mercedes on WVO, and several times made the point that "this
> > >>was an unmodified diesel engine", and "anyone could just pour this stuff
> > >>in their tank".  They made that "unmodified" point several times.
> > >>
> > >>I expect we're going to see a rash of ruined injection pu

Re: [Biofuel] More Gardening News - micro ley farming

[Joe Street]

Fish emulsion works well as a fertilizer in my experience which is 
admittedly limited.  My house plants love it and I haven't seen any sign 
of toxic buildup as can easily happen with chemical salts in in small 
pots.  Watch out using it outdoors though as many small animals such as 
racoons, possums, dogs and cats will be tempted to come and dig the soil 
with the fishy smell.

Joe

Keith Addison wrote:
> 
> I think so. If the results of large-scale ley farming and what we've 
> done so far with micro-ley farming are anything to judge by, then the 
> end of that line, >organic gardening, can be looped back to the 
> beginning - >animal and >animal wastes - more efficiently. We're 
> thinking of adding fish into the micro-ley farming loop, I think 
> there are lots of ways of doing it.
> 
> Best wishes
> 
> Keith


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Re: [Biofuel] Mythbusters screw up.

[lres1]

As far as I knew there were only four major types of fuel injection pumps.

1/ An inline pump with each piston in the pump adjustable to give the right
amount of injection with the changing quantities controlled by a rack
against the back end of the piston plungers whose housings incorporate screw
type lifts variable by the rack. That is the further the rack moves the
further the plunger pistons move and the more fuel injected. Normally these
are heavy duty pumps, expensive in the initial costs but very reliable and
can take heavier fluids more so than types 2 and 4. Early H and B series
Toyota engines, and many more.

2/ The DPA type rotary head pump with swash type arrangement to give
delivery. Generally a very weak pump and in need of constant maintenance
with one pump head feeding many injector nozzles. Not so well to operate as
1 above on heavier fluids.

3/ The single direct injection pump per cylinder run off an engine cam
shaft. This is in single and multi-cylinder engines. A great advantage of
these is they are so easy to repair, maintain and can be mostly done on the
side of the road as repairs. There can be many cylinders with this type of
independent pump per cylinder from 2 inch (Peters) to over 18 inches in
diameter. This type of injector system is my preference as it enables much
adjustment with very little technical equipment, (some just use shims and
others are set like tappets in an engine) See Duetz and marine Kubota,
Ruston singles to Ruston oil engines (crude oil injection direct, that stuff
can be like bituminum) to "liberty" engines. very easy to modify to heavier
fuels.

4/ The worst of the lot for me is the "common Rail" which uses a high
pressure pump and then electronics to adjust timing and fuel flows. A real
nightmare if heavy oils are used and hard to re-set the parameters on the
Power Control Module or what ever the designer designated the computer
control system as (PCM, ECM, PTCM etc). In amongst this lot is the Daimler
Puch engine design. This being developed as the Styre engine, now in many
configurations in vehicles, boats and other equipment as the power to weight
ration is all but equal to that of gas/petrol. This type of engine normally
injects twice per firing stroke, with the injectors and pumps being
unit-construction with one per cylinder. Due to the abolition of high
pressure fuel lines these injectors can inject at 3 to 4 rimes the pressure
of a system as in 1 to 3 above. this gives the best possible burning but is
sensitive to fuels and again is controlled by computerized   systems of
carious makes. I have never seen a heavy fuel run in any of these engines.
Has any one?

I opt for one and three above as they are easiest to work on and clean,
generally the injectors are basic as well and as long as shims are not mixed
up the injectors can be stripped and cleaned in a home garage without a POP
tester. All the other units are mostly throw aways once worn.

Just some thoughts when choosing what engine to use.

Doug.

PS Has any one tried converting a 4.0 liter fuel injected Jeep Wrangler to
ethanol of 895% and 15% water direct from fuel tank to injectors water and
all?



> Well, if they did it in Arizona in the Summer...
>
> Zeke Yewdall wrote:
>
> > A mercedes probably won't immediately die on  WVO.  It uses a gear
> >driven plunger type injector pump instead of the more common timing
> >belt driven rotary style.  From what I have heard, it can handle more
> >viscous fluid alot easier.
> >
> >Of course, you'll still get coking of the injectors from cold oil, and
> >if you try this on any other diesel other than a detroit diesel, which
> >has piston type unit injectors, your injector pump won't be happy.
> >
> >So, yes, they blew it.  They just happened to pick the one vehical
> >that would stand it for a while...
> >
> >On 5/14/06, Alan Petrillo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>On Mythbusters episode 53
> >>
>
>>http://dsc.discovery.com/fansites/mythbusters/episode/episode.html?clik=fa
nmain_leftnav
> >>
> >>the Mythbusters tackled "The Great Gas Conspiracy".  One of the things
> >>they covered was vegetable oil in diesels.
> >>
> >>They blew it.
> >>
> >>They ran a Mercedes on WVO, and several times made the point that "this
> >>was an unmodified diesel engine", and "anyone could just pour this stuff
> >>in their tank".  They made that "unmodified" point several times.
> >>
> >>I expect we're going to see a rash of ruined injection pumps thanks to
> >>this.  Maybe if they receive an avalanche of email they'll revisit the
> >>vegetable oil diesel subject before their screwup costs a lot of people
> >>a lot of money.
> >>
> >>
> >>AP


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Biofuel at Journ

[Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water

[Chris Troeh]

Sorry Richard, but your cat usefulness law doesn't 
"hold water".  Here's evidence to the contrary:
 

September 14, 2005

FORGET DRILLING ANWR! HERE KITTY, KITTY...:
Inventor fuels car with dead cats (Wednesday, September 
14, 2005, Reuters via CNN)

A German inventor has angered animal rights activists with his 
  answer to fighting the soaring cost of fuel -- dead cats. 
  
  Christian Koch, 55, from the eastern county of Saxony, told Bild newspaper 
  that his organic diesel fuel -- a homemade blend of garbage, run-over cats and 
  other ingredients -- is a proven alternative to normal consumer diesel.
  "I drive my normal diesel-powered car with this mixture," Koch said. "I 
  have gone 170,000 km (106,000 miles) without a problem." 

The best two-fer yet: Eliminate any need for higher gas taxes AND the 
annoyance of cats in one fell swoop? Pinch me.Posted by John Resnick at September 14, 2005 06:25 PM 

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Re: [Biofuel] Solar Concentrator & PV Modules

[Joe Street]

Silicon is quite fragile especially the thin polysilicon material used 
in cells.  You are right but any water pressure would break the cells. 
You need to bond them onto a heat conducting back plate like copper or 
aluminum with a heat conducting cement.  Aso the back is an electrical 
contact so you need isolation there.

Joe

Jason & Katie wrote:

> in theory, if one could find a way to waterproof the back of a PV cell it 
> could be used as the heat-side plate in this concentrator/boiler found at 
> (or after) http://www.ida.net/users/tetonsl/solar/page_46.htm you could 
> safely increase the power range of a smaller PV cell without too horrible of 
> a heat loss. the problem is finding a sealing substance that wont melt or 
> burn under these 1200*F temperatures.
> 
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "logan vilas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 4:54 PM
> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Solar Concentrator & PV Modules
> 
> 
> 
>>I am working with the idea of building my own Concentrator with about 50
>>times the mirror space then collector space. That Is why the question was
>>asked in the first place I was wondering if placeing a 50watt solar panel 
>>at
>>the focal point would increase the power output. I've read that it is more
>>then 100% liner increase in power output when increasing the amount of 
>>light
>>on it. a normal panel at 50 watts would be 2500 watts at 50 suns. I know 
>>it
>>would need to be kept cool. due to the fact that they are only 20-30%
>>efficent, but I could use the coolant to heat my biodiesel processor, then
>>the hot water going into my home before a tankless heater. If I were to 
>>get
>>a grid tied inverter It would suppliment my normal power useage and maby
>>with netmetering it might come close to canceling out my power 
>>requirements
>>alltogther. a simple temp sensor could be used so if the temp is over 150f
>>in the coolant it will shut down and not collect the sun anymore. As for a
>>solar tracker that is relative easy with very simple electronics. The 
>>setup
>>to hold everything would be a simple build for most people who can make
>>their own biodiesel processor. And If I base it off a 7 meter dish I can 
>>get
>>those free. I just have to use the labor to remove it.
>>
>>Logan Vilas
>>- Original Message - 
>>From: "Zeke Yewdall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>To: 
>>Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 3:59 PM
>>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Solar Concentrator & PV Modules
>>
>>
>>
>>>I am speaking mostly from experience, from what I have seen work and
>>>fail in the field, and what I can buy to install for my clients. The
>>>reason I talk about trackers on large poles is because that is what is
>>>commercially sold right now (at least in the US, europe is ahead of us
>>>in many areas).  And the biggest reason I see for failed systems is
>>>lack of maintenance (mostly batteries, but also anything that moves).
>>>Also, the number of new innovative PV systems that I have seen come on
>>>the market over the years, only to dissapear within another year...
>>>We're still basically doing the same thing as PV was in the 70's, with
>>>incremental improvements in efficiency and incremental cost decreases.
>>>I called the concrentrating PV exotic merely because I can't call up
>>>one of 200 some suppliers and buy one that meets all current
>>>electrical code, whereas I can with silicon PV modules.  Maybe another
>>>breakthrough is coming, but in the mean time, alot of people will keep
>>>using coal generated power because they are waiting for those
>>>breakthroughs.  I would rather see working PV systems going in today,
>>>even if they aren't all that high tech, rather than people thinking
>>>they have to wait before solar energy can work for them -- and in the
>>>mean time continuing to support coal and oil.   It's not that I want
>>>to limit the new technology, but what I have seen is that the
>>>layperson holds out the possibility of a paradigm shift in the
>>>technology in the future as a reason to do absolutely nothing now.
>>>And if I recall, the original question was about concentrating
>>>sunlight on a normal old PV module -- which isn't the best idea --
>>>they tried that at the carrizo solar plant in the early 80's, and a
>>>few years later, a whole lot of used Mud-lams (because the encapsulant
>>>turned varying shades of brown) flooded the market for off-grid use.
>>>
>>>I do admit that this list's members are not your average layperson,
>>>and most of us won't just use the news of new inventions as an excuse
>>>for procrastinating, so I apologize for that.
>>>
>>>Zeke
>>>
>>>
>>>On 5/12/06, Michael Redler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>
By now, you may have noticed my resistance to "conventional wisdom"
whenever
someone gives negative feedback about a particular energy scheme. Here 
is
an
example.

The idea of concentrating light onto PV cells is a relatively new idea 
in
some circles. What to do about waste heat 

Re: [Biofuel] Report on the successful usage of a PVC Venturi In making Biodiesel

[Joe Street]

Hi JJN;

I have found the same as you but I have also found that the small 
orifice in the Mazzei injector is easily clogged and problematic.  I 
developed my own injector and it is something that is easily done using 
standard tools and off the shelf parts. Also in talking to the people at 
Mazzei I stumped their technical experts when I asked them if the 
injector would work if the motive force was on the downstream side of 
the injector which is kinda unheard of!( Means the injector goes on the 
pump inlet instead of outlet side.  LOL.  Well I had a feeling it would 
work fine.  It does tend to increase the probability of cavitation since 
the pump now has to suck oil through a slight resistance in the choke 
tube of the injector but I designed mine to have a limited restriction 
which means it doesn't create too much vacuum (commercial units are 
optimized for maximum vacuum)but it doesn't create a 20% reduction in 
pumping speed which is a big ouch!  The cavitation it turns out may be a 
boon to us anyways 2XLOL Also my injector does not have the classic 
hourglass shape with the injection orifice at the waist of the 
hourglass.  This led to problems of glycerine not fully draining from 
some parts of the circuit when I used the comercial injector.  My 
injector drains fully.  It also works great for injecting water in the 
cleaning process. It is all part of the design.  It is a little 
unorthodox but then again what isn't in biodieseling?  You have to have 
a bit of a hacker mentality right?  So here is how you do it for a 3/4" 
plumbing size

Get a PVC or PP tee and a street elbow that fits your pump. Get a 1/2" 
MPT x 1/2" hose barb and a 3/4" pipe nipple.  Cut 1/2" pipe threads on 
the INSIDE of the 3/4" pipe nipple.  Remove the barbs from the hose barb 
fitting with sandpaper to create a smooth surface. Thread the hose barb 
into the pipe nipple.  Now thread the pipe nipple into the tee with the 
hose barb extending through the tee. The street elbow goes into the 
opposite end of the tee and the hose barb end should come close to the 
end of the threaded part of the street elbow where it threads into the 
tee.  The vacuum port is the branch of the tee. This arrangement is the 
secret to why my reactor works as well as it does.  I added a 1/8" NPT 
hole to the tee and screwed in a stainless needle valve for metering 
KOH/MEOH or H2SO4/MEOH onto the manifold and use the main branch as a 
port for sucking water from the tank bottom during washing. The injector 
itself doesn't do a hell of a lot of mixing. I tried it on the outlet 
side of the pump and it works great as a suction device but by putting 
it on the pump inlet the impeller does an additional job as a mixer and 
it works SWEET!

I'll put the BOM on my site this week so you will have all the UPC codes 
and source information for all the parts.

Cheers and thanks for the post!

BTW I am giving away hard won iformation here.  It took me a long time 
to get all this figured out and I spent a lot of money on failures along 
the way. I don't really want anyone else taking this information 
CAPITALIZING off of my hard work.  I know this will happen but it is my 
job to spread the word that nobody needs to pay for this knowledge so 
please do your part and tell everyone you know where they can get the 
info for FREE.  Pics are here.

http://www.nonprofitfuel.ca/Reactor.html

The 7th and 8th photos show the injector.  Some previous shots show an 
earlier plumbing arrangement with smaller tubing that didn't work so 
well especially with crap oil. Ignore that.

Joe


JJJN wrote:

> Hello all,
> Several months ago I asked if anyone had ever used the Venturi in making 
> Biodiesel.  No one replied so I guess no one read the post or they had 
> not.  Well I have put one into operation in my processor and have had 
> great success with it on my first 100 liter acid base reaction. (not my 
> first acid base).  Please allow me to give you all the basics and some 
> of the benefits that can be accomplished very simply and cheaply.
> 
> The Venturi is an example of  Bernoulli's law in practice.  It allows a 
> pump to circulate a fluid while creating a vacume that pulls gases or 
> liquids into the flowing stream being pumped.  The mixing rate of Ozone 
> into water is 99% complete.  What does this mean for us? well we can 
> bring Methanol, Acid, Methoxil, inert gas, and the top layer into that 
> stream of WVO coming off the bottom of the processor.  It is mixed at a 
> rate that is greatly more efficient than that accomplished by a pump alone.
> 
> You can meter the rate at which the fluid is injected to maximize the 
> oil that is subjected to the injected fluid. The best part is the flow 
> rate of the pump is not impacted to a great extent - you can pump all 
> the oil through it in about (20% reduction depending on the design of 
> the venturi) the same time as you would without the venturi. But the 
> advantage is the fluid being mixed is being

Re: [Biofuel] shockwaves, cavitation... and faster bio?

[Joe Street]

Hi Jason

I may inadvertently have done this already.  My system is a vacuum type 
reactor.  I regularly see cavitation in the mixing pump as I dry oil or 
fuel as I have it running early on during the drying process. During a 
process, I use a small amount (5") of vacuum to draw the methoxide into 
the mixing pump and one time I had a little more vacuum and caused 
cavitation when I was doing a reaction.  There is probably always a 
little cavitation happening around the pump impeller. In my system the 
reaction happens so quickly that I can see a dramatic darkening colour 
change in the fluid if I compare what is flowing into the pump inlet and 
what is coming out as I trickle the methoxide into the pump. I am 
pumping about 4-5 GPM so fluid is moving at high speed and travels the 
length of the recirculating tube in a fraction of a second so seeing the 
colour change in that tube means the reaction is happening quite 
quickly. I do not have a reflux tube above my tank so I wouldn't try to 
run with a vacuum that would cause so much cavitiation that I see a 
stream of bubbles in the tube, because I would then be losing a lot of 
methanol, but it could be that cavitation is already playing a part in 
systems that use pump mixing, especially if they are vacuum systems.

Joe

Jason & Katie wrote:

> as one has seen over time, i save emails that i find interesting, and once 
> in a while i get the brilliant flash to put some of the contained ideas 
> together.
> 
> the properties of cavitiation include:
> 
> 1) agitation
> 2) heat
> 3) vaporization resulting in larger active surface area
> 
> could we use these properties in a semi passive system of the "aperture 
> control" scheme (defined in the wikipedia article 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cavitation ) that is commonly used today, and 
> take advantage of these three properties to speed and enhance the BD 
> process? granted there will still need to be an external heat source, a 
> pump, and possibly a little vacuum, but these are already part of the well 
> known process we enjoy today.
> 
> any ideas?
> 
> jason 
> 
> 
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> 


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Re: [Biofuel] Mythbusters screw up.

[Mike Weaver]

Well, if they did it in Arizona in the Summer...

Zeke Yewdall wrote:

> A mercedes probably won't immediately die on  WVO.  It uses a gear
>driven plunger type injector pump instead of the more common timing
>belt driven rotary style.  From what I have heard, it can handle more
>viscous fluid alot easier.
>
>Of course, you'll still get coking of the injectors from cold oil, and
>if you try this on any other diesel other than a detroit diesel, which
>has piston type unit injectors, your injector pump won't be happy.
>
>So, yes, they blew it.  They just happened to pick the one vehical
>that would stand it for a while...
>
>On 5/14/06, Alan Petrillo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  
>
>>On Mythbusters episode 53
>>
>>http://dsc.discovery.com/fansites/mythbusters/episode/episode.html?clik=fanmain_leftnav
>>
>>the Mythbusters tackled "The Great Gas Conspiracy".  One of the things
>>they covered was vegetable oil in diesels.
>>
>>They blew it.
>>
>>They ran a Mercedes on WVO, and several times made the point that "this
>>was an unmodified diesel engine", and "anyone could just pour this stuff
>>in their tank".  They made that "unmodified" point several times.
>>
>>I expect we're going to see a rash of ruined injection pumps thanks to
>>this.  Maybe if they receive an avalanche of email they'll revisit the
>>vegetable oil diesel subject before their screwup costs a lot of people
>>a lot of money.
>>
>>
>>AP
>>
>>
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>>
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>
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>
>  
>


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