Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water
Hi Bob, I do know that science is not a done deal. Anyway, I have gone through his website and it seems coherent. There is no hint that he is trying to hide anything. He lays it all out with animations, white papers, etc. He is not the Lone Ranger wrt hydrinos, other scientists have duplicated his results. I will wait, anxiously, and see how this drama plays out. If he's able to do as he claims, well, the world will be a lot better place. We'll be free of the control of Big Energy. I believe that he will have to eventually overcome considerable outside interference to get his vision to the stage of actual implementation. As far as I know, he is the only one who has made extraordinary claims to have gotten as far he has with his technology. I do wish him and his colleagues all the best. Peace, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2006 9:32 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water Howdy D, you seem to accept that the hydrino is real; that is, that Mills has discovered a new form of matter- hydrogen with a never before seen energy state below the know ground state. Well I'm going to hold my breath in anticipation. what is your prediction as to when we will be powering the world? or even making the meter at his lab run backwards? D. Mindock wrote: Hi Bob, I automatically reject anything which 1. appears to violate extremely simple laws of thermodynamics I think you should be more open, but that's just my opinion. Appearing to violate the laws does not imply that the laws were indeed violated. Sometimes closer inspection is needed. BTW, the Fluctuation Theorem (extension/replacement of the 2nd Law) of Denis Evans allows, in nanoscale systems, violations of the 2nd Law. 2. is supported by testimonial, rather than hard data. Inventors are always afraid of someone stealing their ideas. Even the patent process can be intercepted by special interests. It is a Catch-22. yes, but a catch-22 that charlatans have hidden behind for centuries. Dr Randell Mills though has got his system of energy creation via hydrinos patented. He invites any scientist to come to his facility and examine his prototypes. He offers unfettered access. Some sceptics have stayed as long as a year and came away believers. 3. doesn't currently sell power to the grid with the device, even though claims are made of power production. when he starts selling power, I'll believe it. All it would take is to build the mousetrap in a secret box, then connect it to the grid. From his discription I can't imagine why a 100-man years of work are necessary- all he is doing is getting more energy out than put in. He heats a hydrogen plasma in the presence of a catalyst and claims he gets more out than in - it should be a nobrainer, use the excess heat to boil water, turn a turbine and sell power. Dr Mills wants to do that, put power on the grid. As to whether his hydrinos can power a car, he is working on that. He's confident that it is possible. I guess I just have a lower tolerance for fraud, or at least a higher standard for proof. Well, why don't you go out to visit his facility? It could be an eye opener. no,no he is making extraordinary claims, so he is going to have a lot more proof before I cross the street. Have you invested in this miracle? here is the link: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves - Richard Feynman www.blacklightpower.org Peace, D. Mindock D. Mindock wrote: Bob, You have your mind set already to reject this. This guy is a successful inventor and businessman. Did you bother to read the wikipedia reference? I think not. You already know it, right? If you did you'd have seen that energies are created that are not readily explained. Things have changed from the 1970's, new discoveries are being made. sure, but the laws of thermodynamics is not one of those things that have changed. toodles. Peace, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 8:26 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water D. Mindock wrote: Bob, The inventor was quite adamant that over unity was being achieved in the early years of development. overunity implies (to me anyway) that you get more energy out than you put in. If that is the case, why isn't this guy a bazzillionare? why isn't he selling power all over the globe? I'll tell you why, 'cause it ain't so. I think he stopped using this phrase so as not to be seen as a whacko (all breakthrough inventors are seen as such). no, he stopped using it because he couldn't support the claim with real data. He was getting a lot of people interested but that was all. Anyway, some scientists have found
[Biofuel] US wants to gut EU's chemical safety policies called REACH
We really need something like REACH is the USA. I just read that newborn babies here are found to have 287 chemicals in their blood, 180 of which are suspected carcinogens. See www.energytimes.com for May 2006. Peace, D. Mindock = http://www.citizen.org/trade/wto/ENVIRONMENT/reach/ REACH for Consumer Safety European and U.S. consumers face the same dilemma concerning the number of harmful chemicals they are exposed to at home, in the garden and at the office. Current laws on both sides of the Atlantic focus on ensuring the safety of new chemicals before they are placed on the market, but fail to regulate the tens of thousands of older chemicals that have been on the market for decades. Little data is publicly available about the potential hazards posed by these older chemicals, which constitute the vast majority of those in the stream of commerce. In response to this frightening lack of information, the European Union (EU) has proposed a cutting-edge chemical safety policy called REACH (Registration, Evaluation, Authorisation and Restrictions of Chemicals). The goal of REACH is to test and regulate 30,000 chemicals, old and new, produced in excess of one metric ton (a portion of the estimated 100,000 chemicals on the U.S. and European markets). Consumer, environmental and public health groups on both sides of the Atlantic have applauded REACH as a long-overdue chemical safety measure. Unfortunately, the Bush Adminstration’s response to the policy has been to aggressive attack the policy as a barrier to trade. The U.S. Commerce and State Departments have teamed up with the chemical industry to launch an aggressive transatlantic lobbying campaign aimed at gutting REACH before it is passed into law. Industry claims that the required toxicity testing is too costly and burdensome. U.S. trade officials claim the policy is an illegal barrier to trade impeding the free flow of chemicals across borders. The legislation has not been finalized, but already the U.S. has filed papers complaining about the policy at the World Trade Organization (WTO). U.S. officials claim that this latest transatlantic dispute will dwarf the dispute over genetically modified foods. For more information see related documents and links. » Letter from Sens. Lautenberg and Jeffords to USTR Zoellick on REACH (10/19/04) -- http://www.citizen.org/documents/10-19-04ZoellickLetter.pdf » USTR Zoellick's response to Sen. Lautenberg (1/05) -- http://www.citizen.org/documents/2nd USTR Letter.pdf »trade -- http://www.citizen.org/trade | wto -- http://www.citizen.org/trade/wto | ENVIRONMENT -- http://www.citizen.org/trade/wto/ENVIRONMENT ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Now Is the Time for a Left-Right Alliance
Hi Jim, I was puzzled by your message. But now that I know your frame of mind when you wrote it, I understand. I do know that I can sound over zealous myself. You should see my friends start to yawn when I rant on about the many sins of BushCo. They can't really believe BushCo is that bad dark. And like Todd said a week ago, I won't win over many advocates that way. Mainly I want to wake them up, but I can be too much. I get wound up when I realize all the good that could be done with the money that is thrown down a black hole to corporate interests; money that is siphoned off from the middle class and poor. I think good ideas from any political party is great. (I like the thoughts of the Greens especially.) Mainly I love any idea/program that elevates people and gives them optimism and appreciation of life. E.g., I hate it when art, music, and/or gym are removed from schools. When I was a kid I had these courses. Now they're being eliminated due to costs. These courses enriched my life a lot. No, we won't get good politicians until we totally revamp the candidate selection process. Need to get corporate money/influence out of the system. In 2004, Bush had 200+ million dollars of money for his election campaign, way beyond the rest of the field. We need to level the playground so all candidates have the same money to use. Also TV stations should allow all candidates equal and free time to get their message to the voters. The voting system too needs to be made reliable and open to all citizens, i.e., votes cannot be manipulated either electronically or physically and citizens cannot blocked from voting. IMO, as of now, it doesn't look good for November 7. Those Diebold ESS machines, with their built-in hackable back door are in a lot of states. They've not been independently certified. They've failed all real tests done on them. They're designed to be easily hackable. See: http://www.blackboxvoting.org/ Voting fraud will be with us again, it appears. Peace, D. Mindock Hi D.. D. Mindock wrote: Hi Jim, Hi D, No not now - this should have happened after we invaded Iraq and prior to the second four years. Better late than never. We need to stop the Bush regime, now. It is a loose cannon. You are certainly right about that and I pardon the pun. I honestly am not a progressive or a conservative. I simply listen to both sides of an issue and look for the truth that comes from each then decide where America as a people will benefit the most - NOT where I will benefit or where my special interests lie, My special interests are: fairness, life (live let live, here and abroad), equal justice for all regardless of whatever, equal opportunity for all, world-class education for all through 4 years college; stop the polluting of our air/water/food, low cost single payer healthcare for all, investing in sustainable energy sources, and reducing our greatly bloated Pentagon budget so that we can pay for all the infrastructure repairs/upgrades needed to our social and physical fabric. Those are worthy values, and I would like to see the same but it takes a wise and honest administration to implement them without creating a monster that in the end would not achieve the goal. I wonder do you think our society could elect someone that wise and honest the way we do it now? I under stand taking steps in the wrong direction are worse than not taking any. but where the most Americans will stand to benefit (without the loss of life and liberty to someone in another country as a result of the benefit to these Americans.). I believe JFK said ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country Yes, I believe he said that. I kind sounded like I was preaching a bit didnt I, Sorry, just venting frustration. I understand some issues are very complicated and do not have simple answers but when you jump on a party line that says this is bad and thats good don't bother to think, then you have just become blind to the real solutions. Basically, all I have been saying that BushCo represents special interests and not the American people. He has lied to Congress and we the people. His values and actions have resulted in a degraded environment, a disastrous war in Iraq (more pending?), fraud, spying on us all, etc. These are bad. I believe the best solution is his immediate removal from office. This is good. I was not in disagreement with you, now that I read it back sounds kinda condensending, Sorry again. I only think that to truly get effective change that will meet our goals I think we need to do (from your list) world-class education for all through 4 years college first and we need to develop socially as a people right along with that. You can think on this. I encourage free thinking on all issues. Are there any issues am I blind to? Again I am sorry if I sounded like I was aiming at you, I merely do not like
[Biofuel] Fw: NSA wiretapping
[The NSA is the president's own SS. I believe it came into existence under Harry Truman] Jo Etta writes in her blog: http://www.changeformissouri.com/2006/05/16/possible-reasons-for-nsa-wiretapping/ The NSA wiretapping makes no sense as a means of tracking terrorists. It makes all the sense in the world, however, as a means of tracking dissidents. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Fw: Another view of the Pentagon Strike
Have any of you watched the newly released government video, supposedly showing a Boeing 747 crashing into the Pentagon? Did any of you think you saw a 747? Here's another piece on the Pentagon Strike worth watching may truth and light prevail...jeannie http://www.pentagonstrike.co.uk/flash.htm#Main ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Another view of the Pentagon Strike
But then what happened to the actual plane and the passengers? How did they all just disappear? D. Mindock wrote: Have any of you watched the newly released government video, supposedly showing a Boeing 747 crashing into the Pentagon? Did any of you think you saw a 747? Here's another piece on the Pentagon Strike worth watching may truth and light prevail...jeannie http://www.pentagonstrike.co.uk/flash.htm#Main ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Now Is the Time for a Left-Right Alliance
Joke going around political circles in DC: What's the definition of a Democrat? A Republican from 1950. D. Mindock wrote: Hi Jim, I was puzzled by your message. But now that I know your frame of mind when you wrote it, I understand. I do know that I can sound over zealous myself. You should see my friends start to yawn when I rant on about the many sins of BushCo. They can't really believe BushCo is that bad dark. And like Todd said a week ago, I won't win over many advocates that way. Mainly I want to wake them up, but I can be too much. I get wound up when I realize all the good that could be done with the money that is thrown down a black hole to corporate interests; money that is siphoned off from the middle class and poor. I think good ideas from any political party is great. (I like the thoughts of the Greens especially.) Mainly I love any idea/program that elevates people and gives them optimism and appreciation of life. E.g., I hate it when art, music, and/or gym are removed from schools. When I was a kid I had these courses. Now they're being eliminated due to costs. These courses enriched my life a lot. No, we won't get good politicians until we totally revamp the candidate selection process. Need to get corporate money/influence out of the system. In 2004, Bush had 200+ million dollars of money for his election campaign, way beyond the rest of the field. We need to level the playground so all candidates have the same money to use. Also TV stations should allow all candidates equal and free time to get their message to the voters. The voting system too needs to be made reliable and open to all citizens, i.e., votes cannot be manipulated either electronically or physically and citizens cannot blocked from voting. IMO, as of now, it doesn't look good for November 7. Those Diebold ESS machines, with their built-in hackable back door are in a lot of states. They've not been independently certified. They've failed all real tests done on them. They're designed to be easily hackable. See: http://www.blackboxvoting.org/ Voting fraud will be with us again, it appears. Peace, D. Mindock Hi D.. D. Mindock wrote: Hi Jim, Hi D, No not now - this should have happened after we invaded Iraq and prior to the second four years. Better late than never. We need to stop the Bush regime, now. It is a loose cannon. You are certainly right about that and I pardon the pun. I honestly am not a progressive or a conservative. I simply listen to both sides of an issue and look for the truth that comes from each then decide where America as a people will benefit the most - NOT where I will benefit or where my special interests lie, My special interests are: fairness, life (live let live, here and abroad), equal justice for all regardless of whatever, equal opportunity for all, world-class education for all through 4 years college; stop the polluting of our air/water/food, low cost single payer healthcare for all, investing in sustainable energy sources, and reducing our greatly bloated Pentagon budget so that we can pay for all the infrastructure repairs/upgrades needed to our social and physical fabric. Those are worthy values, and I would like to see the same but it takes a wise and honest administration to implement them without creating a monster that in the end would not achieve the goal. I wonder do you think our society could elect someone that wise and honest the way we do it now? I under stand taking steps in the wrong direction are worse than not taking any. but where the most Americans will stand to benefit (without the loss of life and liberty to someone in another country as a result of the benefit to these Americans.). I believe JFK said ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country Yes, I believe he said that. I kind sounded like I was preaching a bit didnt I, Sorry, just venting frustration. I understand some issues are very complicated and do not have simple answers but when you jump on a party line that says this is bad and thats good don't bother to think, then you have just become blind to the real solutions. Basically, all I have been saying that BushCo represents special interests and not the American people. He has lied to Congress and we the people. His values and actions have resulted in a degraded environment, a disastrous war in Iraq (more pending?), fraud, spying on us all, etc. These are bad. I believe the best solution is his immediate removal from office. This is good. I was not in disagreement with you, now that I read it back sounds kinda condensending, Sorry again. I only think that to truly get effective change that will meet our goals I think we need to do (from your list) world-class education for all through 4 years college first and we need to develop
Re: [Biofuel] more canada biofuels
I'm building the processsor and running test batches simultaniously so I can shift to large scale as fast as possible. I can't reclaim my investment with small batches. And it was only the first batch that I felt the (unnecessary) need to reprocess that I had problems with. The one following that just took a little extra washing (7 instead of 3-4) and the last one turned out absolutely perfectly. I put the sum of the second two batches in my truck yesterday morning; all 0.4 gallons (~1.5L)! But it was $1.18 I didn't have to spent at the pump! This weekend; my first WVO test batches. Hooray! Ryan From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] more canada biofuels Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 05:07:47 +0900 I bought my processor assembly kit from there. He can assemble plumbing fitting kits for less than I can buy the fittings for. Ryan But you're still having problems with test batches aren't you Ryan? Bit early to be messing with processor. We used recycled plumbing fittings, didn't cost anything. Best Keith From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] more canada biofuels Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 04:37:36 +0900 Hi Jesse Anyone seen this? Thoughts? Jesse http://www.diyfuel.com/ca/ Yeah, it's the guy in the US who has Darryl Hannah on his site. I like this bit here: http://www.diyfuel.com/index.php?cPath=34 Biodiesel facts, with the whole section lifted straight from Journey to Forever. He says so, and puts it on a link that says: www.journeytoforever.org, which is wrong, it should be journeytoforever.org, no www - it would work anyway, but instead of linking to JtF it links to the NBB: http://www.biodiesel.org/news/bulletin/1998/0498.pdf The page cannot be found. LOL! You have to pick and choose. Some good stuff, lots of junk too, and he doesn't tell you which is which. He's okay, but you need to get good info elsewhere first. Sells Crappleseeds, still with the same old pump that's too small, and they're not cheap, but at least they're not FuelMeisters. Build yer own. Best Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ _ Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Thermal conductivity Please help
Well, I'm a little rusty but I'll see what I can recall. I could dig out my Transport Phenomena notes, but that would bring back alot of bad memories. So this is a 300 K temperature difference across the silicon whatever? So, perhaps, silicon will transfer 149 W of energy for every meter of separation of the temperatrure extremes for every unit K of temperature difference across the substrate. I think this is a simplified formula maybe? One that assumes a cylindrical rod of silicon (or some other standard shape), perhaps? Ryan From: logan vilas [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] Thermal conductivity Please help Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 18:23:37 -0500 Thermal conductivity of silicone (300 K) 149 W/(m·K) Can anyone help me understand this. I've been trying to figure out how to read this equasion for 2 days and all I got was a headache. Logan Vilas ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ _ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] more canada biofuels
Hello Ryan I'm building the processsor and running test batches simultaniously so I can shift to large scale as fast as possible. You said you started the wrong way round: Which is demonstrated by the fact that I have my processor just about build and haven't done a single small batch yet...I'm a rookie. Well, that's what you said, we said it was the wrong way round: Where do I start? -- Start with the process, NOT with the processor. The processor comes later. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#start When you're confident that you can get good results every time, even using oil from different sources, then it's time to scale up the process to provide your fuel needs. Now that you have a feel for the process and know what to expect, you'll have a much better idea of what sort of processor you want than if you'd started off building the processor (as many do) rather than learning the process first. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#moving I can't reclaim my investment with small batches. Your investment? I'm quite interested in that, just at the moment. People are always asking about costs. What are you costing in your investment? The cost of the processor, let's see, that was only two 60-litre batches, it took two days, or a few hours over a couple of days. Building it took much longer, I'd never built such a thing before, and figuring it all out first took even longer. But I'd learned really a lot from people here on the list and I got that for nothing, so I don't know how to cost it. The processor works very well though and now lots of people have built them, and they also got it for nothing. If you took an eco-economist's view (which we'll all have to take in the end), economics that can tell a sword from a plowshare, you'd have to add all that in too somehow to be realistic about the costs. I think that means I must be rich by now because of the free processor and so on, and I'm not the only one. But if you take a money economist's view, the prevailing one, sad to say, which indeed can't tell a sword from a plowshare, it means I'm as poor as a churchmouse, and that's the truth of it. Obviously I'm not too good at costings, and I end up completely confused about how a person would go about getting their investment back. Well, no need to be so complicated about it, but it's worth a thought. Do you cost your time? What do you include? That was about two months ago you said you're a rookie. Do you include all the development time in the meantime? Would that be just time spent making test batches, finding and getting materials and so on? How about the learning curve, would you cost the time that takes? Time spent here, for instance, or at the JtF website Biodiesel section. If you do cost it, do you think we should cost it too, the ones who provide it all in various ways, including many list members, which could end up including you? Where do you draw the line? I'd appreciate your opinion, and any others too. And it was only the first batch that I felt the (unnecessary) need to reprocess that I had problems with. The one following that just took a little extra washing (7 instead of 3-4) and the last one turned out absolutely perfectly. I put the sum of the second two batches in my truck yesterday morning; all 0.4 gallons (~1.5L)! But it was $1.18 I didn't have to spent at the pump! What will you do with the $1.18? This weekend; my first WVO test batches. Hooray! Good luck. Best Keith Ryan From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] more canada biofuels Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 05:07:47 +0900 I bought my processor assembly kit from there. He can assemble plumbing fitting kits for less than I can buy the fittings for. Ryan But you're still having problems with test batches aren't you Ryan? Bit early to be messing with processor. We used recycled plumbing fittings, didn't cost anything. Best Keith From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] more canada biofuels Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 04:37:36 +0900 Hi Jesse Anyone seen this? Thoughts? Jesse http://www.diyfuel.com/ca/ Yeah, it's the guy in the US who has Darryl Hannah on his site. I like this bit here: http://www.diyfuel.com/index.php?cPath=34 Biodiesel facts, with the whole section lifted straight from Journey to Forever. He says so, and puts it on a link that says: www.journeytoforever.org, which is wrong, it should be journeytoforever.org, no www - it would work anyway, but instead of linking to JtF it links to the NBB: http://www.biodiesel.org/news/bulletin/1998/0498.pdf The page cannot be found. LOL! You have to pick and choose. Some good stuff, lots of junk too, and he doesn't tell you which is which. He's okay, but you
Re: [Biofuel] more canada biofuels
Hi Hakan Keith, So that is where they went, girl mark, tilly, john galt, etc., interesting. Not really, it's a strange sort of mixture, like a 100-yen shop. They do hang out at some of the links he has there. Obviously an attempt to make some money on biodiesel in Canada and maybe US. Yes, but there doesn't have to be any harm in that, in itself. I assume that they did not had the courtesy to ask you if they could copy and link to journeytoforever.org. At least the visitor will be curious and copy/paste the link and that works. I checked it! LOL So did I! LOL! His name's Rich Reilly, of BiodieselWarehouse (US). He emailed me some time ago, about something else he wanted to discuss, not this. Pleasant man, we sorted it out without any difficulty. He's okay, but he runs a shop. I don't think he's unscrupulous. Ryan just said it's useful. We don't insist on anything, but we encourage people to built their own stuff, we promote Reduce, Recycle, Reuse and so on. It leads to further development through the inevitable variations in the gear they make. But there's also the empowerment that goes with finding you actually can make your own high-quality fuel, and you actually made the processor too, especially if you made it out of recycled junk. If you can do that, what else can you do that you're not supposed to be able to and thought you couldn't? Quite a lot of people think that's a major part of making biodiesel, and it's the kind of attitude that spreads like a weed. As we can see. I haven't checked it, but IIRC Rich accepted that, but he also thinks there are a lot of people who just aren't going to do it, so he's catering for them. He's right, of course there are a lot of people like that. I don't think that's the way to create change, but I don't have any argument with it. When people lift a whole slab of stuff like that, design and all, especially when it's a commercial site not an educational one, there's the question of whether visitors there end up thinking we're endorsing that site. I don't think Rich did it for that reason though, he didn't strike me that way at all. The NBB link on journeytoforever.org is just a mistake. (I recommend Adobe GoLive.) But there's a context to it, though it has nothing to do with Rich Reilly. Recently (not here) there've been some comparisons made between the NBB and JtF, with JtF better or whatever. I had no part in it and I didn't like it. It came from something I'd said in private correspondence. I don't want to be put in competition with the NBB, or anyone. The NBB still likes to go public with the news that homebrewers can't make good fuel and you should stick with the professionals and so on, like here for instance, in the news article about Bob Allen: http://www.nwanews.com/adg/News/146919/ But unlike commercial biodiesel, the homemade fuel is not held to ASTM International specifications drafted to protect engines, said Jenna Higgins, spokesman for the National Biodiesel Board. Straight vegetable oil is, first of all, not a road-legal fuel, she said, and it is likely to cause engine damage. She said the same concern applies to fuels from home reactors. Either fuel would void engine warranties, she added. Jenna Higgins knows that's BS. It's been BS ever since we turned Graham Noyes of World Energy around at Biofuels-biz and it turned out that contrary to rumour it's the homebrewers who have to clean up the mess when the NBB stuff turns out to be non-ASTM junk that wrecks engines, not the other way round, homebrewers do quality, and Graham went and told the NBB that. But they keep on doing it anyway, like David Pimentel does with ethanol. And they try to exclude small brewers from the market. But that's not my problem. Some of that is on our website at the Quality section, but it's mainly there to defend and encourage homebrewers, rather than attacking the NBB. So now Rich goes and puts a link on a JtF url at his site that goes straight to the NBB! That's good for a chuckle. :-) Actually the NBB link is further down in the stuff he lifted, we link to them too. But it's an old version he used, that link was changed long ago. I just checked it at our site and the replacement link doesn't work either! LOL! http://www.biodiesel.org/pdf_files/emissions.PDF The page cannot be found Aarghh! Their urls hit their use-by date even sooner than their soy biodiesel does. (I fixed it.) Anyway, in spite of the quality row with industry (not only in the US), I can still email Jenna Higgins if I want to discuss something with her, I think, though it's a while since I did it. I don't want that to change, I have no reason to fight with her, or with them. (Their online database is very good.) Do not worry about this, it is not worth it and it is not sustainable! anyway, maybe annoying. No, it's okay. I'm not sure about sustainable, you're probably right. It take a lot more experiences, brain power and noble
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Another view of the Pentagon Strike
Hi Mike, Good question. AFAIK, no bodies were recovered. Maybe all were incinerated? Not! No parts of 747 were found. What was there appeared to be a cruise missle. Another video called Loose Change says that the plane that was likely shot down over PA landed in Cincinatti and the passengers disembarked. Where are they? I think they might all have been sworn to secrecy and perhaps threatened with dire consequences. I know it is incredulous but no bodies were found in that hole in the ground in PA. No body parts. Not even plane parts although an engine was reportedly found eight miles from the impact. There are too many discrepancies that have simply been ignored or glossed over. Most people want to believe the official story and they do, to a large extent. But anyone who looks at 9/11 as a crime investigator would will find that the official story cannot possibly be true. Nine of the hijackers are known to be alive. Mohammed Atta's dad says his son phoned him the day after 9/11. Peace, D. Mindock But then what happened to the actual plane and the passengers? How did they all just disappear? D. Mindock wrote: Have any of you watched the newly released government video, supposedly showing a Boeing 747 crashing into the Pentagon? Did any of you think you saw a 747? Here's another piece on the Pentagon Strike worth watching may truth and light prevail...jeannie http://www.pentagonstrike.co.uk/flash.htm#Main ___ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water
Howdy Mike, I am singularly unimpressed. all the patents (I agree with park that the patent office has given up trying to define what is real and what is not) and all the math-o-babble are not going to convince me as easily as simple proof of efficacy: start selling power which one extracts from what-ever previously unheard of source, and I will believe. the author of the article, tom bearden claims to have built a replicable overunity device which extracts energy from the vacuum whatever that means. But I am left to wonder, does his electric meter run backwards? in fact, why isn't he producing all sorts of products, smelting iron, reducing bauxite, producing any number of goods which require energy? If his device is real, we should see huge transformers out side his bedroom window to take all the power away. the same is true for Mills device. 100 man-years to develop a heat source? give me a break. Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves - Richard Feynman somebody is fooling themselves... MK DuPree wrote: Bob, what do you think after reading this: http://www.cheniere.org/misc/mills.htm ??? Mike DuPree - Original Message - From: bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2006 9:32 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water Howdy D, you seem to accept that the hydrino is real; that is, that Mills has discovered a new form of matter- hydrogen with a never before seen energy state below the know ground state. Well I'm going to hold my breath in anticipation. what is your prediction as to when we will be powering the world? or even making the meter at his lab run backwards? D. Mindock wrote: Hi Bob, I automatically reject anything which 1. appears to violate extremely simple laws of thermodynamics I think you should be more open, but that's just my opinion. Appearing to violate the laws does not imply that the laws were indeed violated. Sometimes closer inspection is needed. BTW, the Fluctuation Theorem (extension/replacement of the 2nd Law) of Denis Evans allows, in nanoscale systems, violations of the 2nd Law. 2. is supported by testimonial, rather than hard data. Inventors are always afraid of someone stealing their ideas. Even the patent process can be intercepted by special interests. It is a Catch-22. yes, but a catch-22 that charlatans have hidden behind for centuries. Dr Randell Mills though has got his system of energy creation via hydrinos patented. He invites any scientist to come to his facility and examine his prototypes. He offers unfettered access. Some sceptics have stayed as long as a year and came away believers. 3. doesn't currently sell power to the grid with the device, even though claims are made of power production. when he starts selling power, I'll believe it. All it would take is to build the mousetrap in a secret box, then connect it to the grid. From his discription I can't imagine why a 100-man years of work are necessary- all he is doing is getting more energy out than put in. He heats a hydrogen plasma in the presence of a catalyst and claims he gets more out than in - it should be a nobrainer, use the excess heat to boil water, turn a turbine and sell power. Dr Mills wants to do that, put power on the grid. As to whether his hydrinos can power a car, he is working on that. He's confident that it is possible. I guess I just have a lower tolerance for fraud, or at least a higher standard for proof. Well, why don't you go out to visit his facility? It could be an eye opener. no,no he is making extraordinary claims, so he is going to have a lot more proof before I cross the street. Have you invested in this miracle? here is the link: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves - Richard Feynman www.blacklightpower.org Peace, D. Mindock D. Mindock wrote: Bob, You have your mind set already to reject this. This guy is a successful inventor and businessman. Did you bother to read the wikipedia reference? I think not. You already know it, right? If you did you'd have seen that energies are created that are not readily explained. Things have changed from the 1970's, new discoveries are being made. sure, but the laws of thermodynamics is not one of those things that have changed. toodles. Peace, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 8:26 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water D. Mindock wrote: Bob, The inventor was quite adamant that over unity was being achieved in the early years of development. overunity implies (to me anyway) that you get more energy out than you put in. If that is the case, why isn't this guy a bazzillionare? why isn't he selling power all over the
Re: [Biofuel] more canada biofuels
Hi Keith, Costs Hmmm... Return on Investments...When we start are all steep on the learning curve. Access to information is the key issue not access to the junk needed to build the processor. I did not begin to process a single drop of biodiesel until I read how to make small batches. My first batches were small. Single liter batches and scales measuring lye and methanol mixed in clear detergent bottles. PH strips for titration and some virgin corn oil. I made several batches using different oils and titrating each batch to better understand the process as I did it. The first small batches that I made probably cost under $10.00US. It turned into nice fuel. I believe my return on investment was far worth more than I put in and was evident when I burned the first batch in my little single cylinder diesel engine. I never got into biofuels because I was looking for a cheaper fuel than conventional fuels. I have always been concerned about wisely using what resources we have. It was an opportunity to remove something from the waste stream (WVO) and reuse it. Return on Investment?I have given away more biodiesel to people who want to try it than I have made for myself. I teach the basics to people who want to learn, (4 so far) and then we build a processor that will work for them (4 so far.) If they want me to make fuel for them I point them to a distributor of biodiesel and wish them luck. My time was better spent learning and teaching this than I could have imaginged. If I was looking for some financial gain from this, I am looking for the wrong thing. I believe that Ryan is looking finacial gain. Too bad for him. fred On 5/17/06, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello RyanI'm building the processsor and running test batchessimultaniously so I can shift to large scale as fast as possible.You said you started the wrong way round:Which is demonstrated by the fact that I have my processor just about build and haven't done a single small batch yet...I'm a rookie.Well, that's what you said, we said it was the wrong way round:Where do I start? -- Start with the process, NOT with the processor. The processor comes later.http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#startWhen you're confident that you can get good results every time, even using oil from different sources, then it's time to scale up theprocess to provide your fuel needs. Now that you have a feel for theprocess and know what to expect, you'll have a much better idea ofwhat sort of processor you want than if you'd started off building the processor (as many do) rather than learning the process first.http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#movingI can't reclaim my investment with small batches. Your investment? I'm quite interested in that, just at the moment.People are always asking about costs.What are you costing in your investment? The cost of the processor,let's see, that was only two 60-litre batches, it took two days, or a few hours over a couple of days.Building it took much longer, I'd never built such a thing before,and figuring it all out first took even longer. But I'd learnedreally a lot from people here on the list and I got that for nothing, so I don't know how to cost it. The processor works very well thoughand now lots of people have built them, and they also got it fornothing. If you took an eco-economist's view (which we'll all have totake in the end), economics that can tell a sword from a plowshare, you'd have to add all that in too somehow to be realistic about thecosts. I think that means I must be rich by now because of the freeprocessor and so on, and I'm not the only one. But if you take amoney economist's view, the prevailing one, sad to say, which indeed can't tell a sword from a plowshare, it means I'm as poor as achurchmouse, and that's the truth of it. Obviously I'm not too goodat costings, and I end up completely confused about how a personwould go about getting their investment back. Well, no need to be so complicated about it, but it's worth a thought.Do you cost your time? What do you include? That was about two monthsago you said you're a rookie. Do you include all the development timein the meantime? Would that be just time spent making test batches, finding and getting materials and so on?How about the learning curve, would you cost the time that takes?Time spent here, for instance, or at the JtF website Biodieselsection. If you do cost it, do you think we should cost it too, the ones who provide it all in various ways, including many list members,which could end up including you? Where do you draw the line?I'd appreciate your opinion, and any others too. And it was only the first batch that I felt the (unnecessary) need to reprocess that I had problems with.The one following that justtook a little extra washing (7 instead of 3-4) and the last oneturned out absolutely perfectly.I put the sum of the second two batches in my truck yesterday morning; all 0.4 gallons (~1.5L)!Butit was $1.18 I
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water
D. Mindock wrote: Hi Bob, I do know that science is not a done deal. Anyway, I have gone through his website and it seems coherent. There is no hint that he is trying to hide anything. He lays it all out with animations, white papers, etc. He is not the Lone Ranger wrt hydrinos, other scientists have duplicated his results. I will wait, anxiously, and see how this drama plays out. If he's able to do as he claims, well, the world will be a lot better place. In my mind, infinite energy is the worst case scenario I can think of- energy to spare, energy to drive the gluttonous behavior of everybody on the planet. NO THANKS We'll be free of the control of Big Energy. I believe that he will have to eventually overcome considerable outside interference and that would be just what? he has his patent, what is holding things up? to get his vision to the stage of actual implementation. As far as I know, he is the only one who has made extraordinary claims to have gotten as far he has with his technology. if he is not selling power, he has gotten no where. I do wish him and his colleagues all the best. sorry, I can't be so positive. either he is naive or crooked. I have been arguing over these something for nothing energy schemes since I was an undergraduate in the sixties. Nobody has proved me wrong yet. Peace, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2006 9:32 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water Howdy D, you seem to accept that the hydrino is real; that is, that Mills has discovered a new form of matter- hydrogen with a never before seen energy state below the know ground state. Well I'm going to hold my breath in anticipation. what is your prediction as to when we will be powering the world? or even making the meter at his lab run backwards? D. Mindock wrote: Hi Bob, I automatically reject anything which 1. appears to violate extremely simple laws of thermodynamics I think you should be more open, but that's just my opinion. Appearing to violate the laws does not imply that the laws were indeed violated. Sometimes closer inspection is needed. BTW, the Fluctuation Theorem (extension/replacement of the 2nd Law) of Denis Evans allows, in nanoscale systems, violations of the 2nd Law. 2. is supported by testimonial, rather than hard data. Inventors are always afraid of someone stealing their ideas. Even the patent process can be intercepted by special interests. It is a Catch-22. yes, but a catch-22 that charlatans have hidden behind for centuries. Dr Randell Mills though has got his system of energy creation via hydrinos patented. He invites any scientist to come to his facility and examine his prototypes. He offers unfettered access. Some sceptics have stayed as long as a year and came away believers. 3. doesn't currently sell power to the grid with the device, even though claims are made of power production. when he starts selling power, I'll believe it. All it would take is to build the mousetrap in a secret box, then connect it to the grid. From his discription I can't imagine why a 100-man years of work are necessary- all he is doing is getting more energy out than put in. He heats a hydrogen plasma in the presence of a catalyst and claims he gets more out than in - it should be a nobrainer, use the excess heat to boil water, turn a turbine and sell power. Dr Mills wants to do that, put power on the grid. As to whether his hydrinos can power a car, he is working on that. He's confident that it is possible. I guess I just have a lower tolerance for fraud, or at least a higher standard for proof. Well, why don't you go out to visit his facility? It could be an eye opener. no,no he is making extraordinary claims, so he is going to have a lot more proof before I cross the street. Have you invested in this miracle? here is the link: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves - Richard Feynman www.blacklightpower.org Peace, D. Mindock D. Mindock wrote: Bob, You have your mind set already to reject this. This guy is a successful inventor and businessman. Did you bother to read the wikipedia reference? I think not. You already know it, right? If you did you'd have seen that energies are created that are not readily explained. Things have changed from the 1970's, new discoveries are being made. sure, but the laws of thermodynamics is not one of those things that have changed. toodles. Peace, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 8:26 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water D. Mindock wrote: Bob, The inventor was quite adamant that over unity was being achieved in the
Re: [Biofuel] more canada biofuels
Keith, Good that you are not to upset with them, it is not energy efficient. As you know, I have a some experience with the net and computers, it will take me less than 60 seconds to connect and correct the link to JTF. They have been aware of the faulty link for more than the 5 minutes it would take to get the message, check the link, correct it and test it again. I cannot claim that it was not a mistake, but I can claim that it is lng overdue to make the correction. If they have so much problems with making proper links on a web site, I would not touch anything that they do. Maybe Ryan could ask his child to make the correction, if he have one (he or she) over 8 years old, they would probably beat me in making the correction. LOL Hakan At 14:36 17/05/2006, you wrote: Hi Hakan Keith, So that is where they went, girl mark, tilly, john galt, etc., interesting. Not really, it's a strange sort of mixture, like a 100-yen shop. They do hang out at some of the links he has there. Obviously an attempt to make some money on biodiesel in Canada and maybe US. Yes, but there doesn't have to be any harm in that, in itself. I assume that they did not had the courtesy to ask you if they could copy and link to journeytoforever.org. At least the visitor will be curious and copy/paste the link and that works. I checked it! LOL So did I! LOL! His name's Rich Reilly, of BiodieselWarehouse (US). He emailed me some time ago, about something else he wanted to discuss, not this. Pleasant man, we sorted it out without any difficulty. He's okay, but he runs a shop. I don't think he's unscrupulous. Ryan just said it's useful. We don't insist on anything, but we encourage people to built their own stuff, we promote Reduce, Recycle, Reuse and so on. It leads to further development through the inevitable variations in the gear they make. But there's also the empowerment that goes with finding you actually can make your own high-quality fuel, and you actually made the processor too, especially if you made it out of recycled junk. If you can do that, what else can you do that you're not supposed to be able to and thought you couldn't? Quite a lot of people think that's a major part of making biodiesel, and it's the kind of attitude that spreads like a weed. As we can see. I haven't checked it, but IIRC Rich accepted that, but he also thinks there are a lot of people who just aren't going to do it, so he's catering for them. He's right, of course there are a lot of people like that. I don't think that's the way to create change, but I don't have any argument with it. When people lift a whole slab of stuff like that, design and all, especially when it's a commercial site not an educational one, there's the question of whether visitors there end up thinking we're endorsing that site. I don't think Rich did it for that reason though, he didn't strike me that way at all. The NBB link on journeytoforever.org is just a mistake. (I recommend Adobe GoLive.) But there's a context to it, though it has nothing to do with Rich Reilly. Recently (not here) there've been some comparisons made between the NBB and JtF, with JtF better or whatever. I had no part in it and I didn't like it. It came from something I'd said in private correspondence. I don't want to be put in competition with the NBB, or anyone. The NBB still likes to go public with the news that homebrewers can't make good fuel and you should stick with the professionals and so on, like here for instance, in the news article about Bob Allen: http://www.nwanews.com/adg/News/146919/ But unlike commercial biodiesel, the homemade fuel is not held to ASTM International specifications drafted to protect engines, said Jenna Higgins, spokesman for the National Biodiesel Board. Straight vegetable oil is, first of all, not a road-legal fuel, she said, and it is likely to cause engine damage. She said the same concern applies to fuels from home reactors. Either fuel would void engine warranties, she added. Jenna Higgins knows that's BS. It's been BS ever since we turned Graham Noyes of World Energy around at Biofuels-biz and it turned out that contrary to rumour it's the homebrewers who have to clean up the mess when the NBB stuff turns out to be non-ASTM junk that wrecks engines, not the other way round, homebrewers do quality, and Graham went and told the NBB that. But they keep on doing it anyway, like David Pimentel does with ethanol. And they try to exclude small brewers from the market. But that's not my problem. Some of that is on our website at the Quality section, but it's mainly there to defend and encourage homebrewers, rather than attacking the NBB. So now Rich goes and puts a link on a JtF url at his site that goes straight to the NBB! That's good for a chuckle. :-) Actually the NBB link is further down in the stuff he lifted, we link to them too. But it's an old version he used, that link was changed long ago. I just checked it at our site and the
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water
Hi Bob, The Bohr model of electron orbits is a probability distribution of where the electron most likely will settle when observed. What prohibits the electron from going lower than 13.6 eV?, the so-called ground state. I don't see any reason why it can't. See: http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/hyde.html 100 man-years is needed for a marketable hydrino device. This is not such a long time. 25 men could get it to market in four years. This is very reasonable. Look at the man-years that Bill Gates is expending on the new version of Windows XP called Vista. It must be something like 2000 man-years. And it was recently announced that it will be delayed, again, till early 2007. Vista is always on the horizon. Anyway, I for one, hope Mills surmounts all the nay-sayers and especially people who'd like to sabotage his efforts. Tom Bearden said that skeptics can be useful. They make you tighten up your explanation of how your invention works. Dr Mills was not given a patent. They made him jump through hoops to get it, for almost a decade, I think it was. It was a long struggle. And he did get a scientist, independently, to reproduce his results with hydrinos. This is a keystone of a valid new technology, reproducibility. Bob, there are many skeptics wrt hydrinos. Dr Park is a well-known critic. He deplores/attacks anything except hot fusion, which shows great promise. How long have we heard that? For the good of all of us, I hope Dr Mills gets his tech ready for prime time soon. I want my meter running backwards and to get a monthly check from my power company. Peace, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2006 8:34 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water Howdy Mike, I am singularly unimpressed. all the patents (I agree with park that the patent office has given up trying to define what is real and what is not) and all the math-o-babble are not going to convince me as easily as simple proof of efficacy: start selling power which one extracts from what-ever previously unheard of source, and I will believe. the author of the article, tom bearden claims to have built a replicable overunity device which extracts energy from the vacuum whatever that means. But I am left to wonder, does his electric meter run backwards? in fact, why isn't he producing all sorts of products, smelting iron, reducing bauxite, producing any number of goods which require energy? If his device is real, we should see huge transformers out side his bedroom window to take all the power away. the same is true for Mills device. 100 man-years to develop a heat source? give me a break. Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves - Richard Feynman somebody is fooling themselves... MK DuPree wrote: Bob, what do you think after reading this: http://www.cheniere.org/misc/mills.htm ??? Mike DuPree - Original Message - From: bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2006 9:32 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water Howdy D, you seem to accept that the hydrino is real; that is, that Mills has discovered a new form of matter- hydrogen with a never before seen energy state below the know ground state. Well I'm going to hold my breath in anticipation. what is your prediction as to when we will be powering the world? or even making the meter at his lab run backwards? D. Mindock wrote: Hi Bob, I automatically reject anything which 1. appears to violate extremely simple laws of thermodynamics I think you should be more open, but that's just my opinion. Appearing to violate the laws does not imply that the laws were indeed violated. Sometimes closer inspection is needed. BTW, the Fluctuation Theorem (extension/replacement of the 2nd Law) of Denis Evans allows, in nanoscale systems, violations of the 2nd Law. 2. is supported by testimonial, rather than hard data. Inventors are always afraid of someone stealing their ideas. Even the patent process can be intercepted by special interests. It is a Catch-22. yes, but a catch-22 that charlatans have hidden behind for centuries. Dr Randell Mills though has got his system of energy creation via hydrinos patented. He invites any scientist to come to his facility and examine his prototypes. He offers unfettered access. Some sceptics have stayed as long as a year and came away believers. 3. doesn't currently sell power to the grid with the device, even though claims are made of power production. when he starts selling power, I'll believe it. All it would take is to build the mousetrap in a secret box, then connect it to the grid. From his discription I can't imagine why a 100-man years of work are necessary- all he is doing is getting more energy out than put in. He heats a
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water
Hi Bob, D. Mindock wrote: Hi Bob, I do know that science is not a done deal. Anyway, I have gone through his website and it seems coherent. There is no hint that he is trying to hide anything. He lays it all out with animations, white papers, etc. He is not the Lone Ranger wrt hydrinos, other scientists have duplicated his results. I will wait, anxiously, and see how this drama plays out. If he's able to do as he claims, well, the world will be a lot better place. In my mind, infinite energy is the worst case scenario I can think of- energy to spare, energy to drive the gluttonous behavior of everybody on the planet. NO THANKS That's an interesting comment. I do think Mills will be bought out, if his tech is solid enough to produce a real world device that puts out many thousands of continous watts using hydrogen from electrolysis. Then it, the energy, will be parceled out over the grid as now. No more pollution from power generation, but electric bills will be there every month. Private ownership likely would be banned. Big Biz controls our government and the govenment would come up with some excuse to keep private ownership illegal. (Maybe they'd use the reason you give above? Anyhow, I hope I we're both wrong.) But looking at our history, I think it's the most likely scenario. The government does want to control us, as much as possible. That is certain. The idea of government being the servant of the people is given lip service, at best. We'll be free of the control of Big Energy. I believe that he will have to eventually overcome considerable outside interference and that would be just what? he has his patent, what is holding things up? I don't know. He does have prototypes working. But getting from prototype to a marketable system is a huge step. He talks about this on his radio interview. I don't know how many scientists and engineers he has working on this project. This info could be on the website, but I don't recall seeing it. Also I don't think he said anything about this on the radio interview, except for the 100 man-year figure. He said this equates to one year if he had 100 men. So he implies he has less than a 100. to get his vision to the stage of actual implementation. As far as I know, he is the only one who has made extraordinary claims to have gotten as far he has with his technology. if he is not selling power, he has gotten no where. Well, there are some preliminary steps to accomplish first. He does more than ready willing to bring his tech to the world. I do wish him and his colleagues all the best. sorry, I can't be so positive. either he is naive or crooked. I have been arguing over these something for nothing energy schemes since I was an undergraduate in the sixties. Nobody has proved me wrong yet. You are right to be skeptical. No argument there. He appears to violate quantum theory which has been pretty reliable so far, although it is well known to be incomplete. Thus we have the search for the Theory of Everything which will explain all phenomena from sub-atomic to cosmic in size. Einstein tried but he was well past his prime when he was working on it. Peace, D. Mindock Peace, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2006 9:32 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Car runs on water Howdy D, you seem to accept that the hydrino is real; that is, that Mills has discovered a new form of matter- hydrogen with a never before seen energy state below the know ground state. Well I'm going to hold my breath in anticipation. what is your prediction as to when we will be powering the world? or even making the meter at his lab run backwards? D. Mindock wrote: Hi Bob, I automatically reject anything which 1. appears to violate extremely simple laws of thermodynamics I think you should be more open, but that's just my opinion. Appearing to violate the laws does not imply that the laws were indeed violated. Sometimes closer inspection is needed. BTW, the Fluctuation Theorem (extension/replacement of the 2nd Law) of Denis Evans allows, in nanoscale systems, violations of the 2nd Law. 2. is supported by testimonial, rather than hard data. Inventors are always afraid of someone stealing their ideas. Even the patent process can be intercepted by special interests. It is a Catch-22. yes, but a catch-22 that charlatans have hidden behind for centuries. Dr Randell Mills though has got his system of energy creation via hydrinos patented. He invites any scientist to come to his facility and examine his prototypes. He offers unfettered access. Some sceptics have stayed as long as a year and came away believers. 3. doesn't currently sell power to the grid with the device, even though claims are made of power production. when he starts selling power, I'll
Re: [Biofuel] Now Is the Time for a Left-Right Alliance
Hi Mike, That begs the question: what is the definition of today's Republican? Here's what I found on the net: http://www.cafepress.com/notsubtle.19944829 1. Belief in large intrusive governments 2. belief in massive deficits 3. belief in foreign entanglements 4. an asshole mixed with a hypocrite This sounds a lot like BushCo, huh? Peace, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2006 6:38 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Now Is the Time for a Left-Right Alliance Joke going around political circles in DC: What's the definition of a Democrat? A Republican from 1950. D. Mindock wrote: Hi Jim, I was puzzled by your message. But now that I know your frame of mind when you wrote it, I understand. I do know that I can sound over zealous myself. You should see my friends start to yawn when I rant on about the many sins of BushCo. They can't really believe BushCo is that bad dark. And like Todd said a week ago, I won't win over many advocates that way. Mainly I want to wake them up, but I can be too much. I get wound up when I realize all the good that could be done with the money that is thrown down a black hole to corporate interests; money that is siphoned off from the middle class and poor. I think good ideas from any political party is great. (I like the thoughts of the Greens especially.) Mainly I love any idea/program that elevates people and gives them optimism and appreciation of life. E.g., I hate it when art, music, and/or gym are removed from schools. When I was a kid I had these courses. Now they're being eliminated due to costs. These courses enriched my life a lot. No, we won't get good politicians until we totally revamp the candidate selection process. Need to get corporate money/influence out of the system. In 2004, Bush had 200+ million dollars of money for his election campaign, way beyond the rest of the field. We need to level the playground so all candidates have the same money to use. Also TV stations should allow all candidates equal and free time to get their message to the voters. The voting system too needs to be made reliable and open to all citizens, i.e., votes cannot be manipulated either electronically or physically and citizens cannot blocked from voting. IMO, as of now, it doesn't look good for November 7. Those Diebold ESS machines, with their built-in hackable back door are in a lot of states. They've not been independently certified. They've failed all real tests done on them. They're designed to be easily hackable. See: http://www.blackboxvoting.org/ Voting fraud will be with us again, it appears. Peace, D. Mindock Hi D.. D. Mindock wrote: Hi Jim, Hi D, No not now - this should have happened after we invaded Iraq and prior to the second four years. Better late than never. We need to stop the Bush regime, now. It is a loose cannon. You are certainly right about that and I pardon the pun. I honestly am not a progressive or a conservative. I simply listen to both sides of an issue and look for the truth that comes from each then decide where America as a people will benefit the most - NOT where I will benefit or where my special interests lie, My special interests are: fairness, life (live let live, here and abroad), equal justice for all regardless of whatever, equal opportunity for all, world-class education for all through 4 years college; stop the polluting of our air/water/food, low cost single payer healthcare for all, investing in sustainable energy sources, and reducing our greatly bloated Pentagon budget so that we can pay for all the infrastructure repairs/upgrades needed to our social and physical fabric. Those are worthy values, and I would like to see the same but it takes a wise and honest administration to implement them without creating a monster that in the end would not achieve the goal. I wonder do you think our society could elect someone that wise and honest the way we do it now? I under stand taking steps in the wrong direction are worse than not taking any. but where the most Americans will stand to benefit (without the loss of life and liberty to someone in another country as a result of the benefit to these Americans.). I believe JFK said ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country Yes, I believe he said that. I kind sounded like I was preaching a bit didnt I, Sorry, just venting frustration. I understand some issues are very complicated and do not have simple answers but when you jump on a party line that says this is bad and thats good don't bother to think, then you have just become blind to the real solutions. Basically, all I have been saying that BushCo represents special interests and not the American people. He has lied to Congress and we the people. His values and actions have resulted in a degraded
[Biofuel] Are your free plans being sold on eBay?
I keep getting complaints about this guy who sells bits of the JtF website on eBay. He's not the only one. Quite a few people have reported him and complained about him, but it doesn't work, eBay won't cooperate, they're pretty much complicit. Maybe he could be put out of action but it would be a lot of work, and someone else would replace him soon enough. He doesn't actually do us any direct injury and we're too busy to chase him, so we grin and bear it. There's one born every minute, especially on eBay, and probably one yllar17 born every minute too, but we're more interested in the other 259 people born every minute. Deb Suran sent me further information, she's into hounding the guy, and good luck to her. This is his name: George Powell 15596 Grape Creek Rd Danville, IL (217) 443-3934 Deb said this: I'm writing to let you know than an eBay vendor, yllar17, has been stealing free plans available on the internet, including yours (and mine), and selling them on eBay as his own original copyrighted work. For years. Here's what he currently has for sale at eBay, all stolen: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQfgtpZ1QQfrppZ25QQsassZyllar17 How did I find you? eBay refused to kick him off their service permanently, and instead only briefly suspended him after I caught him selling our plans twice. So I purchased a copy of this thief's CD collection of all the plans he's selling, copied text from the PDF files on the CD into google, and found your website. In an afternoon of searching I found 10 websites that originally published some of the files he currently has for sale. I have attached the PDFs of your stolen plans from that CD to this e-mail. Four whole eBay pages of ripped off plans at the link. Check it out, maybe you're there too. Best Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Are your free plans being sold on eBay?
Keith, Do you think it would help if we all pressed ebay at once? -dave On Wednesday, May 17, 2006 3:11 PM, Keith Addison wrote: I keep getting complaints about this guy who sells bits of the JtF website on eBay. He's not the only one. Quite a few people have reported him and complained about him, but it doesn't work, eBay won't cooperate, they're pretty much complicit. Maybe he could be put out of action but it would be a lot of work, and someone else would replace him soon enough. He doesn't actually do us any direct injury and we're too busy to chase him, so we grin and bear it. There's one born every minute, especially on eBay, and probably one yllar17 born every minute too, but we're more interested in the other 259 people born every minute. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Are your free plans being sold on eBay?
If you are a registered eBay user, you can go the URL below and post a comment about how he is stealing things and selling them. There is already one such comment. Several hundred would not make him look too good. Biofuel@sustainablelists.org wrote: I keep getting complaints about this guy who sells bits of the JtF website on eBay. He's not the only one. Quite a few people have reported him and complained about him, but it doesn't work, eBay won't cooperate, they're pretty much complicit. Maybe he could be put out of action but it would be a lot of work, and someone else would replace him soon enough. He doesn't actually do us any direct injury and we're too busy to chase him, so we grin and bear it. There's one born every minute, especially on eBay, and probably one yllar17 born every minute too, but we're more interested in the other 259 people born every minute. Deb Suran sent me further information, she's into hounding the guy, and good luck to her. This is his name: George Powell 15596 Grape Creek Rd Danville, IL (217) 443-3934 Deb said this: I'm writing to let you know than an eBay vendor, yllar17, has been stealing free plans available on the internet, including yours (and mine), and selling them on eBay as his own original copyrighted work. For years. Here's what he currently has for sale at eBay, all stolen: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQfgtpZ1QQfrppZ25QQsassZyllar1 7 How did I find you? eBay refused to kick him off their service permanently, and instead only briefly suspended him after I caught him selling our plans twice. So I purchased a copy of this thief's CD collection of all the plans he's selling, copied text from the PDF files on the CD into google, and found your website. In an afternoon of searching I found 10 websites that originally published some of the files he currently has for sale. I have attached the PDFs of your stolen plans from that CD to this e-mail. Four whole eBay pages of ripped off plans at the link. Check it out, maybe you're there too. Best Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainableli sts.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Are your free plans being sold on eBay?
I suppose I could put up an auction starting at $.01 with the same products and then put in the description something like: If you are looking for a product like xxx, check JTF first to see if its free. -dave On Wednesday, May 17, 2006 3:52 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 15:52:30 -0500 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Are your free plans being sold on eBay? Keith, Do you think it would help if we all pressed ebay at once? -dave On Wednesday, May 17, 2006 3:11 PM, Keith Addison wrote: I keep getting complaints about this guy who sells bits of the JtF website on eBay. He's not the only one. Quite a few people have reported him and complained about him, but it doesn't work, eBay won't cooperate, they're pretty much complicit. Maybe he could be put out of action but it would be a lot of work, and someone else would replace him soon enough. He doesn't actually do us any direct injury and we're too busy to chase him, so we grin and bear it. There's one born every minute, especially on eBay, and probably one yllar17 born every minute too, but we're more interested in the other 259 people born every minute. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] more canada biofuels
Fred, First, for background, I'm an engineer. It's ALL cost/gain analysis; it can always be build better, but its not worth the cost. OK now, I'm not looking for finacial gain, but rather prevention of financial loss. Where I am in my life right now means I am driving 90+ miles a day for work. I'm dropping $80 a week on diesel. PLUS, I LVE driving. I'm a driver; pack up the wife and daughter in the truck, and take a nice long trip down the unexplored backroads for a week. If I have to even CONSIDER not taking a vacation like this because of the fuel cost, then that is just beyond horrible. Once I switch to B100, no concerns. Once I switch my wife to B100, even better. I don't want to sell my biodiesel, just make enough for my family. And as far as the learning curve, not to be an ass, but mine wasn't steep. I've gone to college for biology, chemistry, chemical processing, and engineerring for the last,...oh-boy...8 years. So far there has been nothing involved that I haven't already done a half-dozen times in one organic chemistry lab or another, its just putting it all together and learning the nuances. I never got into biofuels because I was looking for a cheaper fuel than conventional fuels. I did; not ashamed of that. I have always been concerned about wisely using what resources we have. That is just a fabulous side effect for me. And because those people I know, also know ME (and my background), seeing me convert to alternate fuel lends creditability to it and makes them consider twice just writing it off as some hippie, greenie adventure. (no offense to you hippie, greenies on the list, but you know as well as I do how you are sometime seen). So this brings me to cost. Yes, I could build a system using recycled parts for next to nothing; but it would look like crap (again, no offense. I am the king of function over form for almost everything). But since part of my goal is to convert others and lend creditabilty, this ENGINEER needs to build a professional looking system, worthy of the 8 years everybody knows I spent in college for engineering. So I bought an inductor tank from a fertilized supplier instead of making one from a 50 gallon drum (paid less than half of what the biodiesel suppliers want, though). I bought new, clean, shiny plumbing, fittings, and hot water heater, from the absolute lowest cost sources I could find. So there were costs, which will be recuperated in under 5 months in fuel savings. OK, I'm going to cut this email off, and address Keith's comments in another, because I think that's a separate topic. Ryan From: Fred Finch [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] more canada biofuels Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 08:36:57 -0500 Hi Keith, Costs Hmmm...Return on Investments... When we start are all steep on the learning curve. Access to information is the key issue not access to the junk needed to build the processor. I did not begin to process a single drop of biodiesel until I read how to make small batches. My first batches were small. Single liter batches and scales measuring lye and methanol mixed in clear detergent bottles. PH strips for titration and some virgin corn oil. I made several batches using different oils and titrating each batch to better understand the process as I did it. The first small batches that I made probably cost under $10.00US.It turned into nice fuel. I believe my return on investment was far worth more than I put in and was evident when I burned the first batch in my little single cylinder diesel engine. I never got into biofuels because I was looking for a cheaper fuel than conventional fuels. I have always been concerned about wisely using what resources we have. It was an opportunity to remove something from the waste stream (WVO) and reuse it. Return on Investment? I have given away more biodiesel to people who want to try it than I have made for myself. I teach the basics to people who want to learn, (4 so far) and then we build a processor that will work for them (4 so far.) If they want me to make fuel for them I point them to a distributor of biodiesel and wish them luck. My time was better spent learning and teaching this than I could have imaginged. If I was looking for some financial gain from this, I am looking for the wrong thing. I believe that Ryan is looking finacial gain. Too bad for him. fred _ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee® Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
Re: [Biofuel] Thermal conductivity Please help
Listen to this guy, not me...I said I was rusty. :) Ryan From: Logan Vilas [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Thermal conductivity Please help Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 21:37:40 -0500 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Zeke Yewdall Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2006 8:54 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Thermal conductivity Please help This means basically that at 300K average temperature, the thermal conductivity is 149 W/(m*K). What the proper units are is actually W*m/(sq meter *K). Two of the meters cancel out to leave just one on the bottom, but it's easier to think of it with them still in there. If you think about trying to calculate heat transfer in watts per square meter, you need to cancel out the m on top of the thermal conductivity, and the K on the bottom. So, you multiply the conductivity by the delta T in Kelvins, which cancels the K. And you divide it by the thickness of the silicon you are transferring heat through (because a thicker piece will transfer less heat), which cancels out the m on top. This leaves units of W/m^2 for the units of the answer, which is what we were looking for. If we want total watts, we can multiply by the area of the heat transfer area, and cancel out the m^2, and are left with just watts. On 5/16/06, logan vilas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thermal conductivity of silicone (300 K) 149 W/(m.K) Can anyone help me understand this. I've been trying to figure out how to read this equasion for 2 days and all I got was a headache. Logan Vilas ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ _ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar get it now! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Ryan's costs experiences WAS: more canada biofuels
Wow, Ryan, you missed every point going! It's late now, all I have time for is this. Quite a remarkable thing to say without checking, especially since it was posted here just recently, and in a PLEASE READ message, which all members are obliged to read. Did you read it? You say: Absolutely true. But new guys don't see JtF first, they see FuelMeister or somebody similar; who want to sell something to them. And: All true, and should be made to be Google hit #1 whenever Biodiesel is searched for, but its not, so new guys will continue to start with a processor because search engine results start with a processor. Want to change that? Get JtF to the top of the list. Please check this, from last week's message: http://snipurl.com/q26x biodiesel - Google Search http://snipurl.com/q26p biodiesel mailing list - Google Search (Actually that's very annoying! It's NOT a biodiesel mailing list!) You're completely wrong - it IS at the top of Google, so is the Biofuel list, and I see nothing there about FuelMeisters or Crappleseeds. Which Google were you looking at? If you didn't check it first why did you say it with such confidence? Ranking.com ranks traffic at the 900,000 Most Visited and Popular Web Sites, and it currently ranks JtF at #3 in its category of Education/Organizations, up from #5 a year ago and #8 two years ago. JtF ranks at #18,175 among all web sites, up from #43,542 eight months ago and #64,433 two years ago. It has 24,397 links pointing to it from other sites. In the past year JtF's monthly site traffic grew by 155% and the page visits total grew by 85%, and the starting figures weren't low. How would you explain this? I said, about building the 90-litre processor: Building it took much longer, I'd never built such a thing before, Your reply: I have. So far, I see nothing I've built wrong that needs to be charged, just tweaked (referrence the vaccum pump again). You're experienced, you're an engineer (ENGINEER), but I'm not, what I know about it is just from being a list member. But I designed an original reactor that's now widely used, and you seem to have wasted at least five times as much money on a Crappleseed that you had to come to us to learn how to fix. What's with that? Also this, from your reply to Fred: ... But since part of my goal is to convert others and lend creditabilty, this ENGINEER needs to build a professional looking system, worthy of the 8 years everybody knows I spent in college for engineering. So you bought a Crappleseed that didn't work properly. It all seems rather disconnected, isn't it? Also, I'm sorry to have to tell you that your remarks about OPEC are right out of line in a multinational community such as this one, which includes many people from OPEC countries, and your language is most objectionable. Please withdraw it and apologise. Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel list owner I'll just embed my replies below, as there are alot of little short answers. On 5/17/06, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Ryan I'm building the processsor and running test batches simultaniously so I can shift to large scale as fast as possible. You said you started the wrong way round: Absolutely true. But new guys don't see JtF first, they see FuelMeister or somebody similar; who want to sell something to them. Which is demonstrated by the fact that I have my processor just about build and haven't done a single small batch yet...I'm a rookie. Thought I had it build, according to Crappleseed, as you put it, ideas. I've made changes based on JtF and my experience thus far. Mostly in the addition of a vacuum/compressor pump to fill and purge the main reactor vessel. Their waste water pump sucks...not in the good way. Will not, not, not EVERY prime itself. Well, that's what you said, we said it was the wrong way round: Where do I start? -- Start with the process, NOT with the processor. The processor comes later. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#start When you're confident that you can get good results every time, even using oil from different sources, then it's time to scale up the process to provide your fuel needs. Now that you have a feel for the process and know what to expect, you'll have a much better idea of what sort of processor you want than if you'd started off building the processor (as many do) rather than learning the process first. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#moving All true, and should be made to be Google hit #1 whenever Biodiesel is searched for, but its not, so new guys will continue to start with a processor because search engine results start with a processor. Want to change that? Get JtF to the top of the list. I can't reclaim my investment with small batches. Your investment? I'm quite interested in that, just at the moment. People are always asking about costs.
[Biofuel] Ryan's costs experiences WAS: more canada biofuels
I'll just embed my replies below, as there are alot of little short answers. On 5/17/06, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Ryan I'm building the processsor and running test batches simultaniously so I can shift to large scale as fast as possible. You said you started the wrong way round: Absolutely true. But new guys don't see JtF first, they see FuelMeister or somebody similar; who want to sell something to them. Which is demonstrated by the fact that I have my processor just about build and haven't done a single small batch yet...I'm a rookie. Thought I had it build, according to Crappleseed, as you put it, ideas. I've made changes based on JtF and my experience thus far. Mostly in the addition of a vacuum/compressor pump to fill and purge the main reactor vessel. Their waste water pump sucks...not in the good way. Will not, not, not EVERY prime itself. Well, that's what you said, we said it was the wrong way round: Where do I start? -- Start with the process, NOT with the processor. The processor comes later. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#start When you're confident that you can get good results every time, even using oil from different sources, then it's time to scale up the process to provide your fuel needs. Now that you have a feel for the process and know what to expect, you'll have a much better idea of what sort of processor you want than if you'd started off building the processor (as many do) rather than learning the process first. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#moving All true, and should be made to be Google hit #1 whenever Biodiesel is searched for, but its not, so new guys will continue to start with a processor because search engine results start with a processor. Want to change that? Get JtF to the top of the list. I can't reclaim my investment with small batches. Your investment? I'm quite interested in that, just at the moment. People are always asking about costs. Just hardware I don't already have; only money I actually spend. Water heater, inductor tank, plumbing, vacuum/compressor pump, beakers, graduated cylinders. The chemical supplies would go into the cost/gallon of biofuel that offsets the cost/gallon of the OPEC fuel. What are you costing in your investment? The cost of the processor, let's see, that was only two 60-litre batches, it took two days, or a few hours over a couple of days. Building it took much longer, I'd never built such a thing before, I have. So far, I see nothing I've built wrong that needs to be charged, just tweaked (referrence the vaccum pump again). and figuring it all out first took even longer. But I'd learned really a lot from people here on the list and I got that for nothing, so I don't know how to cost it. True, and this is the ONLY reason my processor has come together so quickly. I've scanned every processor construction idea and have pulled ideas and insights from every one to build I processor I can understand. And I think that's the most important part. There are alot of you running systems I don't follow, so I'm not using your ideas. I need to understand my processor so I can make it work, not just copy somebody else. The processor works very well though and now lots of people have built them, Mine has yet to be seen, but because so many have come before me, I have full confidence. and they also got it for nothing. If you took an eco-economist's view (which we'll all have to take in the end), economics that can tell a sword from a plowshare, you'd have to add all that in too somehow to be realistic about the costs. I think that means I must be rich by now because of the free processor and so on, and I'm not the only one. But if you take a money economist's view, the prevailing one, sad to say, which indeed can't tell a sword from a plowshare, it means I'm as poor as a churchmouse, and that's the truth of it. Obviously I'm not too good at costings, and I end up completely confused about how a person would go about getting their investment back. Well, no need to be so complicated about it, but it's worth a thought. Here's the bottomline, as I see it, for how I am recuperating my costs. Say I spend $500 to build a processor. Once its running, I'm paying only $1 a gallon to fuel my truck ($0.70 for supplies, $.30 for road tax to my state). Meaning for every gallon I burn, I'm preventing the loss of $2 I would have had to spent to burn that gallon of fuel. To recup. my $500, I only need to burn 250 gallons of my biodiesel in situations where I would have had to purchase OPEC diesel. Do you cost your time? What do you include? That was about two months ago you said you're a rookie. Do you include all the development time in the meantime? Would that be just time spent making test batches, finding and getting materials and so on? How about the learning curve, would you cost the time that takes? Time spent
Re: [Biofuel] Ryan's costs experiences WAS: more canada biofuels
Dear Keith, As someone who is selling a Crappleseed Foolmeister based on stolen JTF plans on Ebay I must demand that you retract your statements or prepare to meet me on the (virtual) field on honor. Name your seconds. -Weaver Keith Addison wrote: Wow, Ryan, you missed every point going! It's late now, all I have time for is this. Quite a remarkable thing to say without checking, especially since it was posted here just recently, and in a PLEASE READ message, which all members are obliged to read. Did you read it? You say: Absolutely true. But new guys don't see JtF first, they see FuelMeister or somebody similar; who want to sell something to them. And: All true, and should be made to be Google hit #1 whenever Biodiesel is searched for, but its not, so new guys will continue to start with a processor because search engine results start with a processor. Want to change that? Get JtF to the top of the list. Please check this, from last week's message: http://snipurl.com/q26x biodiesel - Google Search http://snipurl.com/q26p biodiesel mailing list - Google Search (Actually that's very annoying! It's NOT a biodiesel mailing list!) You're completely wrong - it IS at the top of Google, so is the Biofuel list, and I see nothing there about FuelMeisters or Crappleseeds. Which Google were you looking at? If you didn't check it first why did you say it with such confidence? Ranking.com ranks traffic at the 900,000 Most Visited and Popular Web Sites, and it currently ranks JtF at #3 in its category of Education/Organizations, up from #5 a year ago and #8 two years ago. JtF ranks at #18,175 among all web sites, up from #43,542 eight months ago and #64,433 two years ago. It has 24,397 links pointing to it from other sites. In the past year JtF's monthly site traffic grew by 155% and the page visits total grew by 85%, and the starting figures weren't low. How would you explain this? I said, about building the 90-litre processor: Building it took much longer, I'd never built such a thing before, Your reply: I have. So far, I see nothing I've built wrong that needs to be charged, just tweaked (referrence the vaccum pump again). You're experienced, you're an engineer (ENGINEER), but I'm not, what I know about it is just from being a list member. But I designed an original reactor that's now widely used, and you seem to have wasted at least five times as much money on a Crappleseed that you had to come to us to learn how to fix. What's with that? Also this, from your reply to Fred: ... But since part of my goal is to convert others and lend creditabilty, this ENGINEER needs to build a professional looking system, worthy of the 8 years everybody knows I spent in college for engineering. So you bought a Crappleseed that didn't work properly. It all seems rather disconnected, isn't it? Also, I'm sorry to have to tell you that your remarks about OPEC are right out of line in a multinational community such as this one, which includes many people from OPEC countries, and your language is most objectionable. Please withdraw it and apologise. Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel list owner I'll just embed my replies below, as there are alot of little short answers. On 5/17/06, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Ryan I'm building the processsor and running test batches simultaniously so I can shift to large scale as fast as possible. You said you started the wrong way round: Absolutely true. But new guys don't see JtF first, they see FuelMeister or somebody similar; who want to sell something to them. Which is demonstrated by the fact that I have my processor just about build and haven't done a single small batch yet...I'm a rookie. Thought I had it build, according to Crappleseed, as you put it, ideas. I've made changes based on JtF and my experience thus far. Mostly in the addition of a vacuum/compressor pump to fill and purge the main reactor vessel. Their waste water pump sucks...not in the good way. Will not, not, not EVERY prime itself. Well, that's what you said, we said it was the wrong way round: Where do I start? -- Start with the process, NOT with the processor. The processor comes later. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#start When you're confident that you can get good results every time, even using oil from different sources, then it's time to scale up the process to provide your fuel needs. Now that you have a feel for the process and know what to expect, you'll have a much better idea of what sort of processor you want than if you'd started off building the processor (as many do) rather than learning the process first. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#moving All true, and should be made
Re: [Biofuel] more canada biofuels
Ryan, With your 8 years of education in engineering, biology, chemestry etc, etc... were you ever required to READ a manual? You have been directed to look at the available resources on numerous occasions and you have arrived here asking questions that the answers are clearly posted at Journey to Forever. You were pointed to them. There were even links. The element of responsibility has also escaped you. I don't want to get to far into that because it would be wasted. Let's just say that you are not the only one who lives on the planet and leave it at that. I am an aircraft mechanic by trade. Perhaps I should make my processor fly in order to be credible. I have converted others to the idea that they can do this without the Professional system. We need to show people that this can be done with crap, looks like crap and runs like a top. fredOn 5/17/06, Ryan Pope [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Fred, First, for background, I'm an engineer.It's ALL cost/gain analysis; itcan always be build better, but its not worth the cost.OK now, I'm not looking for finacial gain, but rather prevention of financial loss.Where I am in my life right now means I am driving 90+miles a day for work.I'm dropping $80 a week on diesel.PLUS, I LVEdriving.I'm a driver; pack up the wife and daughter in the truck, and take a nice long trip down the unexplored backroads for a week.If I have toeven CONSIDER not taking a vacation like this because of the fuel cost, thenthat is just beyond horrible.Once I switch to B100, no concerns.Once I switch my wife to B100, even better.I don't want to sell my biodiesel,just make enough for my family. And as far as the learning curve, not to be an ass, but mine wasn'tsteep.I've gone to college for biology, chemistry, chemical processing, and engineerring for the last,...oh-boy...8 years.So far there has beennothing involved that I haven't already done a half-dozen times in oneorganic chemistry lab or another, its just putting it all together and learning the nuances.I never got into biofuels because I was looking for a cheaper fuel thanconventional fuels.I did; not ashamed of that.I have always been concerned about wisely using what resources we have. That is just a fabulous side effect for me.And because those people Iknow, also know ME (and my background), seeing me convert to alternate fuellends creditability to it and makes them consider twice just writing it off as some hippie, greenie adventure. (no offense to you hippie, greenies onthe list, but you know as well as I do how you are sometime seen).So this brings me to cost.Yes, I could build a system using recycled parts for next to nothing; but it would look like crap (again, no offense.I am the king of function over form for almost everything).But since partof my goal is to convert others and lend creditabilty, this ENGINEER needs to build a professional looking system, worthy of the 8 years everybodyknows I spent in college for engineering. So I bought an inductor tank from a fertilized supplier instead of makingone from a 50 gallon drum (paid less than half of what the biodiesel suppliers want, though).I bought new, clean, shiny plumbing, fittings,and hot water heater, from the absolute lowest cost sources I could find.So there were costs, which will be recuperated in under 5 months in fuel savings.OK, I'm going to cut this email off, and address Keith's comments inanother, because I think that's a separate topic. RyanFrom: Fred Finch [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject: Re: [Biofuel] more canada biofuels Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 08:36:57 -0500Hi Keith,Costs Hmmm...Return on Investments...When we start are all steep on the learning curve.Access to information isthe key issue not access to the junk needed to build the processor.I didnot begin to process a single drop of biodiesel until I read how to makesmall batches.My first batches were small.Single liter batches and scales measuring lye and methanol mixed in clear detergent bottles.PHstrips for titration and some virgin corn oil. I made several batches usingdifferent oils and titrating each batch to better understand the process as I did it.The first small batches that I made probably cost under $10.00US.Itturned into nice fuel.I believe my return on investment was far worthmorethan I put in and was evident when I burned the first batch in my little single cylinder diesel engine.I never got into biofuels because I was looking for a cheaper fuel thanconventional fuels.I have always been concerned about wisely using whatresources we have.It was an opportunity to remove something from the wastestream (WVO) and reuse it.Return on Investment?I have given away more biodiesel to people who want to try it than I havemade for myself.I teach the basics to people who want to learn, (4 so far)and then we build a processor that will work for them (4 so far.)If theywant me to make fuel for them I point them to a distributor of biodieselandwish
Re: [Biofuel] Are your free plans being sold on eBay?
Oh, nuts. Well, there's 20 bucks wasted. Keith Addison wrote: I keep getting complaints about this guy who sells bits of the JtF website on eBay. He's not the only one. Quite a few people have reported him and complained about him, but it doesn't work, eBay won't cooperate, they're pretty much complicit. Maybe he could be put out of action but it would be a lot of work, and someone else would replace him soon enough. He doesn't actually do us any direct injury and we're too busy to chase him, so we grin and bear it. There's one born every minute, especially on eBay, and probably one yllar17 born every minute too, but we're more interested in the other 259 people born every minute. Deb Suran sent me further information, she's into hounding the guy, and good luck to her. This is his name: George Powell 15596 Grape Creek Rd Danville, IL (217) 443-3934 Deb said this: I'm writing to let you know than an eBay vendor, yllar17, has been stealing free plans available on the internet, including yours (and mine), and selling them on eBay as his own original copyrighted work. For years. Here's what he currently has for sale at eBay, all stolen: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQfgtpZ1QQfrppZ25QQsassZyllar17 How did I find you? eBay refused to kick him off their service permanently, and instead only briefly suspended him after I caught him selling our plans twice. So I purchased a copy of this thief's CD collection of all the plans he's selling, copied text from the PDF files on the CD into google, and found your website. In an afternoon of searching I found 10 websites that originally published some of the files he currently has for sale. I have attached the PDFs of your stolen plans from that CD to this e-mail. Four whole eBay pages of ripped off plans at the link. Check it out, maybe you're there too. Best Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Another view of the Pentagon Strike
the usgov't needs to fall, fast and hard. this crap cant continue. call me a scary fool if you like, but the entire govt needs to be removed, hands down no questions about it, from the lowest clerk all the way up to the pres and his cabinet. - Original Message - From: D. Mindock To: Undisclosed-Recipient:; Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2006 3:23 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Fw: Another view of the Pentagon Strike Have any of you watched the newly released government video, supposedly showing a Boeing 747 crashing into the Pentagon? Did any of you think you saw a 747? Here's another piece on the Pentagon Strike worth watching may truth and light prevail...jeannie http://www.pentagonstrike.co.uk/flash.htm#Main ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.6.0/341 - Release Date: 5/16/2006 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] more canada biofuels
SNIP But there's also the empowerment that goes with finding you actually can make your own high-quality fuel, and you actually made the processor too, especially if you made it out of recycled junk. If you can do that, what else can you do that you're not supposed to be able to and thought you couldn't? Quite a lot of people think that's a major part of making biodiesel, and it's the kind of attitude that spreads like a weed. As we can see. SNIP well, it IS the prevailing component to any project, not just BD. the only way to really get anything done is to jump in feet first. i have found this to be true many times. all you really need is a good reference (i.e., JTF) and a screw the system, i can do it better myself attitude. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Now Is the Time for a Left-Right Alliance
Ah now Mike I heard it the other way around the first time. hmm wouldnt have anything to do with whos telling it would it? LOL I can laugh ether way though ;^) Mike Weaver wrote: Joke going around political circles in DC: What's the definition of a Democrat? A Republican from 1950. D. Mindock wrote: Hi Jim, I was puzzled by your message. But now that I know your frame of mind when you wrote it, I understand. I do know that I can sound over zealous myself. You should see my friends start to yawn when I rant on about the many sins of BushCo. They can't really believe BushCo is that bad dark. And like Todd said a week ago, I won't win over many advocates that way. Mainly I want to wake them up, but I can be too much. I get wound up when I realize all the good that could be done with the money that is thrown down a black hole to corporate interests; money that is siphoned off from the middle class and poor. I think good ideas from any political party is great. (I like the thoughts of the Greens especially.) Mainly I love any idea/program that elevates people and gives them optimism and appreciation of life. E.g., I hate it when art, music, and/or gym are removed from schools. When I was a kid I had these courses. Now they're being eliminated due to costs. These courses enriched my life a lot. No, we won't get good politicians until we totally revamp the candidate selection process. Need to get corporate money/influence out of the system. In 2004, Bush had 200+ million dollars of money for his election campaign, way beyond the rest of the field. We need to level the playground so all candidates have the same money to use. Also TV stations should allow all candidates equal and free time to get their message to the voters. The voting system too needs to be made reliable and open to all citizens, i.e., votes cannot be manipulated either electronically or physically and citizens cannot blocked from voting. IMO, as of now, it doesn't look good for November 7. Those Diebold ESS machines, with their built-in hackable back door are in a lot of states. They've not been independently certified. They've failed all real tests done on them. They're designed to be easily hackable. See: http://www.blackboxvoting.org/ Voting fraud will be with us again, it appears. Peace, D. Mindock Hi D.. D. Mindock wrote: Hi Jim, Hi D, No not now - this should have happened after we invaded Iraq and prior to the second four years. Better late than never. We need to stop the Bush regime, now. It is a loose cannon. You are certainly right about that and I pardon the pun. I honestly am not a progressive or a conservative. I simply listen to both sides of an issue and look for the truth that comes from each then decide where America as a people will benefit the most - NOT where I will benefit or where my special interests lie, My special interests are: fairness, life (live let live, here and abroad), equal justice for all regardless of whatever, equal opportunity for all, world-class education for all through 4 years college; stop the polluting of our air/water/food, low cost single payer healthcare for all, investing in sustainable energy sources, and reducing our greatly bloated Pentagon budget so that we can pay for all the infrastructure repairs/upgrades needed to our social and physical fabric. Those are worthy values, and I would like to see the same but it takes a wise and honest administration to implement them without creating a monster that in the end would not achieve the goal. I wonder do you think our society could elect someone that wise and honest the way we do it now? I under stand taking steps in the wrong direction are worse than not taking any. but where the most Americans will stand to benefit (without the loss of life and liberty to someone in another country as a result of the benefit to these Americans.). I believe JFK said ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country Yes, I believe he said that. I kind sounded like I was preaching a bit didnt I, Sorry, just venting frustration. I understand some issues are very complicated and do not have simple answers but when you jump on a party line that says this is bad and thats good don't bother to think, then you have just become blind to the real solutions. Basically, all I have been saying that BushCo represents special interests and not the American people. He has lied to Congress and we the people. His values and actions have resulted in a degraded environment, a disastrous war in Iraq (more pending?), fraud, spying on us all, etc. These are bad. I believe the best solution is his immediate removal from office. This is
[Biofuel] BETTER MIXING BETTER BIODIESEL LESS ENERGY
Wouldst it be cool if we had a way of doing these: IMPROVING THE SAFE HANDLING OF CHEMICALS? Injecting all our chemicals into our oil without pouring them in? During the process of injection, getting a better than 90% total mix? Keep the top 1 (where any unmixed Methoxil sits in your processor) mixed with the rest? Reclaim the methanol from the glycerin of the last batch right back into the fresh oil of a new batch? Reclaim the methanol from the Biodiesel before washing (allowing for a washing experience you may not have ever experienced)? Well I do have a way and I would like to share it, Joe Street and I have both been developing this technique along parallel lines of thought and it works so well, and it IMPROVES SAFETY. Better than that it cost's about 20 bucks to add to your processor. Reply if you want to know if I'm tooting bull or like Bob Allen says, can give the proof of the pudding - this car does not run on water. ;^) Jim ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
