Re: [Biofuel] Dear all...
I have enjoyed my time on JTF. Thank you for what you have done. As others have offered, I to offer to support and keep the list going. $Dayjob* has plenty of resources to do so free of charge and they would feel it an Honor to donate back to the community. *I own $Dayjob so its easy to talk the boss into things =-) On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 8:26 AM, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's October, the list is going to run out of time soon and the host service will close it down. I'm not sure of the exact date, but suddenly the music will stop. The new community I mentioned previously is still some way down the road, but it will eventually happen. When it does, you'll be hearing from me. Meanwhile, the list will stop, but I won't. I'll keep harvesting the news, I do it anyway. If any list members would like to keep receiving these daily snippets, I don't mind sending them direct. Please let me know - offlist please. All best, and a very big thanks for everything, over the years. This list has taught me so much (deep bow). Regards to all. Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Hypothetical Waste Management
On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 10:20 AM, Dave Hajoglou [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 10:13 AM, Jeromie Reeves [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Arsenic (in very pure forms) is used in many things from batteries to microchips. Maybe contact a metals recycler or such? Where does production arsenic come from now? As far as I know, it's mined. Recycling would likely be the best industrial option if available. What if recycling isn't available or prohibitive (you live too far from any reasonable recycling service). I guess it would help to know how much arsenic this is, where it would be located and how pure. Plastic barrels should be able to store it for a long time in relative safely. After enough has been collected it might be worth selling if it is pure enough. If not, then transport to a recycler that will take it. A few quick searches show that there pretty much is no disposal methods besides containment or use in products. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Hypothetical Waste Management
Arsenic (in very pure forms) is used in many things from batteries to microchips. Maybe contact a metals recycler or such? Where does production arsenic come from now? On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 6:22 AM, Dave Hajoglou [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 7:39 PM, Dan Beukelman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So you are looking for a useful, non-harmful use for arsenic? Not necessarily useful or even a use. I'm pondering the aspects of waste management. A great deal of waste from one process can be used in the input of other, useful processes. Heavy metal waste does not readily become an input for another process. So what do we do with it? ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Alabama Town's Failed Pension is a Warning (NYT-article)
You make it sound like the company is to return 100% of the money to the group who pays in. That is not the case. The company is to find as many people who want to pay in to the fund, while not needing to ever draw from that fund. Everything that does not get drawn is then free for the company to use as it pleases. This is exactly have unemployment and social security works. It takes from the many to give to the (hopefully) few. When that few grow to close to the many, the system breaks down. You need to add more many or take away more few. As far as setting fixed caps on payouts because adjusters were just paying what ever they felt like, seams logical. Its like buying a burger. I would feel cheated if I paid for a 1/2lb burger and got a 1/4 instead and you paid for a 1/2 but got a full 1lb, just because your server felt like giving you more, or me less, on any given day. This is bad business for any business. The more product that is moved, the higher profits are. Could that insurance corp have afforded to pay out a bit more to people? Very possible. On Wed, Dec 29, 2010 at 12:09 PM, Tyler Arnold [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, that's because insurance companies' business model is to 1) accept money in return for a promise to give it back when needed and then 2) don't give it back. That's it. Their profit is inversely related to their payouts. I used to work for a small software startup which made a kind of auto insurance claims management/decision support software that was supposed to account for the fact that newbie claims adjusters were all over the map when it came to payouts. Our software would use custom calculations based on different scenarios to set the upper and lower limits of a given payout and would prompt the claims adjuster to find a number between those limits. It worked really well -- I learned that our main customer was thrilled with it when they discovered that after using our software for one year they had saved $50 million USD in payouts. That's $50 million that was given to them by California drivers in the expectation that the money would be paid back out in the event of an accident; money which the company kept for itself instead. So instead of buying $50 million worth of car repair and medical bills or whatever people needed, it paid for $50 million worth of hookers and blow for insurance company executives.* I no longer work for this company, but I hear they are doing very well. * This may not literally be true. I don't care. -Original Message- From: Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Dec 28, 2010 6:41 PM To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Alabama Town's Failed Pension is a Warning (NYT-article) Same here. That's quite common in rural areas here. Often property taxes via special levies that we vote upon fund the equipment, etc, but the staff volunteers their time. The insurance companies don't like this and charge higher premiums than houses in town with a paid fire department but we're also finding out after 170 houses burned in the forest fire this fall that so called insurance is quite a scam as they are trying to avoid paying the benefits that were supposedly paid for. On Tuesday, December 28, 2010, Jason Mier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i have never, and will never live in an area where the fire department is a paid service. all the FD's around me are volunteer, except for the village, which is paid via property taxes, and when the opportunity arises, i do in fact volunteer my time to the department. any other scheme is by and large, foolish. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2010 21:16:45 +1100 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Alabama Town's Failed Pension is a Warning(NYT-article) Luckily , in Australia, virtually all the Rural Fire services are staffed by volunteers (although there are some paid positions in support areas, Govt funded). I live on rural acreage, some fdunds go to the RFS as donations, but there is no compulsion. I was really surprised with the claim about US rural FS: Australia has on occasions sent brigades from Australia to help fight the big fires in the US ( the US has reciprocated for Australia on occasions). The insurance link to fire brigades also happened in Australia in the 1800´s: there was a plaque attached to the front of the house proving you had insurance. (These are now a collectors item). House insurance now contains a levy that helps fund the Urban fire services. AS I stated, Rural Fire Services are volunteers, with some Govt funding for equipment overheads. regards Doug On Mon, 27 Dec 2010 05:53:34 am Erik Lane wrote: On Sun, Dec 26, 2010 at 6:32 AM, Ivan Menchero [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: Ivan PS: I am surprise the have not privatize the fire department in the USA! so you pay a
Re: [Biofuel] Alabama Town's Failed Pension is a Warning(NYT-article)
As someone else stated, when people are allowed to pay when they have a fire, then only people who have fires will pay. That does not work. Remember that rural fire coverage is not paid for by taxes (i am sure there are grants and such that people can make use of) but by the local fees. It takes a lot of payments (both in the number of people, and the years they pay them) to cover fires, as most people have less then 1 fire in their life on average. On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 1:17 PM, Tyler Arnold [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Except that $75 has very little to do with the actual cost of fighting the fire; and accepting the money at the time of the fire would have done just as much to offset the cost of the fire as accepting it earlier would have. So saying the system works if you pay isn't quite true: the luckless resident offered to pay, would have paid, could have paid -- so if the system works if you pay then the system could have worked right then and there. But it *didn't* work because the $75 and the refusal to put out the fire is nothing more than a childish moral scold that benefits nobody, penalizes everybody, and only gratifies the shriveled hearts of right-wing authoritarians. -Original Message- From: Dan Beukelman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Dec 30, 2010 12:26 PM To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Alabama Town's Failed Pension is a Warning(NYT-article) The situation cited below is interesting. The person who’s house burned for $75.00 actually lived in the country. The rural residents don’t pay taxes for fire service (they could if they wanted to). So, since the rural residents didn’t want to tax themselves to provide a fire service a nearby town said they could provide to any individual that wanted to pay for it. This guys son had a house fire also, also hadn’t paid his $75.00 annual fee, but was allowed to pay it once the house caught on fire. Once that happened many people conveniently forgot, assuming that they could just pay when the fire happened, if no fire, save your $75.00. Anyway a new rule was implemented saying that if you don’t pay your $75.00 you are out of luck, that was done to encourage as many as possible to pay for this service and not wait until their home catches on fire. Had it not been for the nearby town offering fire service for a fee, no one would have responded. The neighbor to the guy who’s house burned, had paid his $75.00 and his house was protected from the fire spreading. The system actually works pretty good, if you pay, but these residents decided themselves that they didn’t need government provided fire service. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Doug Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2010 4:17 AM To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Alabama Town's Failed Pension is a Warning(NYT-article) Luckily , in Australia, virtually all the Rural Fire services are staffed by volunteers (although there are some paid positions in support areas, Govt funded). I live on rural acreage, some fdunds go to the RFS as donations, but there is no compulsion. I was really surprised with the claim about US rural FS: Australia has on occasions sent brigades from Australia to help fight the big fires in the US ( the US has reciprocated for Australia on occasions). The insurance link to fire brigades also happened in Australia in the 1800´s: there was a plaque attached to the front of the house proving you had insurance. (These are now a collectors item). House insurance now contains a levy that helps fund the Urban fire services. AS I stated, Rural Fire Services are volunteers, with some Govt funding for equipment overheads. regards Doug On Mon, 27 Dec 2010 05:53:34 am Erik Lane wrote: On Sun, Dec 26, 2010 at 6:32 AM, Ivan Menchero [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: Ivan PS: I am surprise the have not privatize the fire department in the USA! so you pay a monthly insurance' and if you do not pay and there is a fire in your house you are out of luck! Unfortunately there are at least some fire departments that already do work like that. Here's a story about one that let a house burn, and the outrage over it was slim to none, that I saw. I'm very disappointed in the way things are going. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39516346/ns/us_news-life/ No pay, no spray: Firefighters let home burn Tennessee house in ashes after homeowner 'forgot' to pay $75 fee Below: 1. - x - Jump to video People step up to help Gene Cranick http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39516346/ns/us_news-life/#slice-2 - video http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39516346/ns/us_news-life/#slice-2 2. - x Jump to vote Results below http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39516346/ns/us_news-life/#slice-3 - vote http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39516346/ns/us_news-life/#slice-3 3. - x Next story in
Re: [Biofuel] Alabama Town's Failed Pension is a Warning (NYT-article)
We too have had people have their house because they did not pay the rural fire coverage fee. What people do not understand is that most, if not all, rural fire departments are a subscription service. If you did not subscribe, you do not receive services. There is not (in most places) a rural fire tax to cover fire services like cities have. I have been on both sides of this one and I know the feeling of wanting to bribe (or pay after the fact) for services that were the responsibility of the land owner and/or renter. On Sun, Dec 26, 2010 at 1:14 PM, Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Alot of the US has a strange attraction to worshipping the almighty free market. Any sort of public or regulated business ideas Socialism, public health care, etc is attacked with a fervor usually reserved for religious disagreements. People might claim to believe in God, but what their rhetoric points towards is believing that the free market is infallible and incapable of doing wrong. This belief persists completely in the face of facts and reality in many cases. You might as well be trying to convert Christians to shamanism if you try to talk public health care capitalists. Z On Sunday, December 26, 2010, Doug [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I just do not understand the US system. I am an Australian, we have a mandated Pension system that inputs from memory 9% of a workers wages into a Superannuation scheme (of our choosing). Most seem to use an Industry fund (sort of Union related: has low fees usually good returns, depending on the market.). To my kmowledge there has been no Super Fund collapse in Australia as yet. The Australian Health scheme is similar to the Canadian one. The cost to residents is low, you can also increase the benefits with Private insurance if you so desire (but the basic benefits are adequate). The cost to our Government is less than the US per-person cost, every Australian citizen is covered. If I was an American (US) citizen, I feel I would want much more for my tax $ than is currently seen in the US system: I really cannot see where the inefficiencies could be, feel that a fairer system should be achievable. I wonder why Obama is having so much difficulty changing the US medical system? regards Doug On Sat, 25 Dec 2010 12:18:40 am Keith Addison wrote: Hello Dan, Michelle and all Michele, I don't know that the Federal Government would be - on the hook - PBGC only insures Pensions from Private companies in this case it's the retired workers who could be out. It's a lesson in the need for good financial planning and not putting all of your eggs in 1 basket. This reminds me of the Enron collapse. So many people had all of their retirement tied up in Enron, when the company went under, so did they. So you blame the pensions themselves, instead of Enron and the Washington people (?) who enabled the whole scam? Pensions should not exist. I'm not 100% in touch with all the details of this issue because there's simply been too much of it and I've had no reason to focus on it that closely. But IMHO that would be throwing out the baby with the bathwater. In other countries than the US, pensions not only exist, they also function as intended, providing millions with an essential resource that they depend on. Just because the whole system of welfare, healthcare and benefits in the US is now dysfunctional is no reason to damn them as worse than useless. Shouldn't you rather be aspiring to help restore their valuable functions instead of just baling out? They are plagued with problems and seldom funded correctly. At least with a 401k I can make my investment decisions and I know that what I get depends on what I contribute. How many deserving people would that exclude? How many Americans have died (been killed?) so far because they were effectively denied healthcare? A Grim Record: One In Seven Americans Is On Food Stamps December 8, 2010 http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2010/12/08/131905683/a-grim-record-one-in-s even-americans-is-on-food-stamps No prizes for guessing what kind of food they eat. Best wishes Keith Dan From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michele Stephenson Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 11:36 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Alabama Town's Failed Pension is a Warning (NYT-article) For those of you who live in the US an article of interest... For those who live outside looking in, it's no big surprise Private Company and Industry pensions plans have all but gone away. The substitute is the 401K that no one is really responsible for except the investor to make the best choice for Self. However, for those who work for local and state govt agencies this is something to watch and investigate especially if you are currently receiving a pension or will receive a pension in the next years to come. What is as important if not more important to watch is
Re: [Biofuel] Legality of WVO in commercial application
I know people using BD and they do not pay taxes for using it (except when bought at the pump. The road taxes that are generally applied to diesel fuels used in on road vs off road vehicles (namely farming and logging and such). Those on road taxes go to pay for roads and such. Part of reporting road tax is also on a persons or businesses taxes. A CPA should be able to correctly answer how to report and apply the road use tax. A lawyer might be needed to find out exactly what is or is not 'road tax taxable' for your state or states of operation. On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 9:41 AM, Chris Burck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: can the guy explain a little about why he draws this conclusion about taxes? not that i doubt the notion. in fact, he could well be right but it would help to know what information he's working with. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Algae Oil
On 1/18/09, robert and Benita [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jeromie Reeves wrote: snip Does that mean no one has ever made it work out side the lab? If that is true, why is it true? What is the hurdle, growing, harvesting, processing? Ive read info saying algae oil is chemically the same as light sweet crude. Anyone have more sources showing this to be, or not be, true? I can't answer why it doesn't work, but I CAN say that the whole concept of a technical fix to energy gluttony is fundamentally the wrong approach. Deal with waste and inefficiency, deal with the issues on a local level, and the problems become much smaller and easier to manage. I think we are going in circles about the same issues. I agree we need to make things as efficient as possible. I do not think we can get 'there' in one step, or even two. I also agree things need to be done on a more local scale. Do I take it that, if it can not be done small scale, its not a real solution? Is there something wrong with larger operations or projects that need more space then the average person has? Would it be a non real solution if it took a small community or group to run a facility? What size of area or labor required is a real solution? That depends on how you define solution. Are we trying to replace the same level of consumption we're currently engaged in with a different fuel source? Yes and no, depending on we. I am looking at this because it looks promising but has had so little delivery that it got me curious. Would it not be better to replace fossil fuels with something that could be more carbon neutral? Solutions of that kind require massive, centralized operations. Of what kind? While I do not yet have the numbers it looks like it could very easily be done by a small group. It would take a fairly large area altogether. Lets assume that in my idea here, everyone is responsible for growing how ever much algae is required to fuel them selves. If you need fuel for 1 car or 5, its on your head to make it happen. I know of some people of in Canada that built a 1960's style oil cracking tower. They feed it used oil and pull off fuel and heating oils. It seams to me that algae would be a better stock, and help fill any shortages in supply. The two ideas together seam promising. We've already been down that path and it's clearly a dead end. Anything that requires a large, centralized operation invites the same players into the game who have so skillfully manipulated the world into the situation we find ourselves in right now. Would replacing Exxon with a new bio-algae corporation really solve anything? We are talking different scales of large and centralized here. The ideas above would have everyone growing their own amount of fuel they need (plus extra to run the facility). Feed that stock to a oil cracking tower to produce various fuels The stack pretty much fuels it self once running. It also puts us into the mind set of that solution is still ten years away . . . Meanwhile, we do NOTHING, and the problem grows worse and worse. It can put some people in that mind set. I am always looking for way to increase my fuel economy, reduce my winter heating requirements, etc for my self. I help friends and family do the same. I do what I can to reduce my fuel use but there is not a lot of room to do so. I need to find better sources and more efficient uses of it. We have technology right now that might be utilized to improve efficiency, significantly reduce consumption and move our world into a different economic paradigm. What we lack is will, not capability. Can you point out some of these? I do not know if you mean in general, specifically to transportation, or to food. Is this on a singular scale or larger implementation? I am confused a bit. Is not the point of biodiesel that it is grown instead of fossil fuel? That in the growing it makes it a more carbon neutral fuel source? I know that if we just whole sale replace food crops with fuel crops, we would be idiots. If that's the point, it's the wrong point. The fuel isn't the issue. I thought that the fossil fuel is limited and that it will, at some point, run out. Like with all things the rarer it is, the more it costs and all things derived from it. Did anyone notice the massive push for eco-friendly toys this last Christmas? It had very little to do with `big corps` wanting to be better. The price for plastics about tripled. If you really want to solve the problem, you have to change the fundamentals underlying what has taken us here. Thinking SMALL instead of thinking large will do that. Thinking local, instead of continental or national, will do that. I am trying, in my way, to think that way. To get there I need to educate myself. What do you need transportation for? Lets use me as a example =) I drive 2500 miles a month, often more
Re: [Biofuel] Algae Oil
On 1/15/09, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Jeromie I have been looking into oil from algae and it seams like lots of talk and nothing else. That's quite right. Please see Oil from algae: I have. It is informative but seams very negative with out really saying it fails at step F because we can not solve problem G The best I could find is : There are some hopeful signs, but technical obstacles remain, pilot projects are not yet feasible for production purposes, and the claims made for high yields have never been demonstrated and remain theoretical. What obstacles? Nothing I have found says exactly what the obstacle(s) are. Do the reactors not work they way claimed? Is it to hard to process the oil once extracted? Is extracting it the issue? I found one email about someone trying to use algae oil and failed to pass a wash, but no follow ups on it. Has anyone else tried algae oil or be willing to try it? If so, can it be purchaced for testing or is it a totally a boot strap process at this point? I understand the yields are overly optimistic and at time, out right smoke in the wind. ... there is no such thing as biodiesel from algae apart from a few laboratory samples. Does that mean no one has ever made it work out side the lab? If that is true, why is it true? What is the hurdle, growing, harvesting, processing? Ive read info saying algae oil is chemically the same as light sweet crude. Anyone have more sources showing this to be, or not be, true? http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_yield.html#alg All is explained. Also many previous posts in the list archives (searchable). Is there something fundamentally wrong or missing with the process? According to John Benemann, what's missing is $100 million or more and another 18 years. Well, hopefully less than 18 years. It'll almost certainly be industrial scale stuff though (probably with GMOs too), not for backyarders, not Appropriate Technology, so perhaps not very important when it comes to real solutions. Do I take it that, if it can not be done small scale, its not a real solution? Is there something wrong with larger operations or projects that need more space then the average person has? Would it be a non real solution if it took a small community or group to run a facility? What size of area or labor required is a real solution? Methinks too much of the talk is fired by folks who see it as the Great Green Hope that'll replace fossil fuels so we can all go on guzzling gas without a care as if there's no tomorrow. See How much fuel can we grow? How much land will it take? http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html#howmuch Best Keith I am confused a bit. Is not the point of biodiesel that it is grown instead of fossil fuel? That in the growing it makes it a more carbon neutral fuel source? I know that if we just whole sale replace food crops with fuel crops, we would be idiots. Assuming the info about bio-reactors pans out, there is plenty of space to use for algae and other food stuffs that lend to hydroponics. The growth part looks straight forward using bioreactors. Getting the oil out of the algae looks simple enough, a press and ultrasonics look to be able to hit a 75% Ive also got some vacuum ideas for extraction. Once the oil has been obtained it follows the same process as SVO. The waste product has many uses from live stock feed to fish food to fertilizer. I am wondering if it would make decent burning stock (to help feed the drying stage prior to the pressing). Has anyone used algae oil and if so, is it any different then SVO? I have not found hard numbers on the shelf live of algae oils once extracted. Some sites say that the oil that comes out from algae is chemically the same as crude oil. Does that mean it could be processed in a standard oil refinery, and if so, could SVO? ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Algae Oil
I have been looking into oil from algae and it seams like lots of talk and nothing else. Is there something fundamentally wrong or missing with the process? The growth part looks straight forward using bioreactors. Getting the oil out of the algae looks simple enough, a press and ultrasonics look to be able to hit a 75% Ive also got some vacuum ideas for extraction. Once the oil has been obtained it follows the same process as SVO. The waste product has many uses from live stock feed to fish food to fertilizer. I am wondering if it would make decent burning stock (to help feed the drying stage prior to the pressing). Has anyone used algae oil and if so, is it any different then SVO? I have not found hard numbers on the shelf live of algae oils once extracted. Some sites say that the oil that comes out from algae is chemically the same as crude oil. Does that mean it could be processed in a standard oil refinery, and if so, could SVO? ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Pepsi Forced to Admit It's Bottling Tap Water
On 8/6/07, Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 8/5/07, Andres Secco [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In planning a house, an apartment building, even a shopping mall, one should not even CONSIDER water quality that is available. ??? In a house, the designer, builder, contractors, NO they should not unless the building owner wants them to. Why should it be the responsibility of anyone except the land owner, or the person commissioning the house? Very few houses in the US are built under direction of the eventual landowner or person who will live in the house. They are built by developers who's only goal is to make money. Not provide housing. Since the buyer is unknown, and probably not that well educated on details on construction, they can cut alot of corners and usually end up building houses that really should be bulldozed the minute that are completed. Insulation... why put that in -- no one thinks about that till they get their first heating bill. Efficient appliances? Water quality? Same thing. The average potential house buyer will no notice their lack until it's too late, so don't bother spending money there. Fancier countertops will be noticed by the potential buyer up front, so that's a much better place to spend money in the construction. I agree that happens. There are some HUD houses in town where I have clients and the work there was sub standard. The guy I bought my house from is a framer and I can promise the house he works on do not get short changed. Sure the primary contractor on the job wants to make money (just like most of us) but he is not a crook. The building inspector makes sure things are to code and not a crappy job. They inspect at many stages of the building process. The guy who was on the job when the HUD houses were built has since been let go. IMO they should have made the contractors rebuild the HUD homes but people were lazy from top to bottom.In my experience a majority of construction companies are not thieves. My friend that does home evaluations picks up on short cuts and the price of the house will reflect it. Anyone who is buying a home should have a independent inspector/evaluator. If they do not they have only them selves to blame. Its not like this information is secret, any realestate company should be able to get you in contact with a few.[my opinion] I think this comes back primarily to people being lazy. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Pepsi Forced to Admit It's....
On 8/5/07, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jeromie Reeves wrote: Whats with the miss direction? You are accusing me of misdirection? That is not wise. That is how I came across but was not my intention. This is not on topic to the discussion at hand (the bottle waste and poison). You have become a topic cop too? That is also not wise. I suggest you (re)read the List rules. No miss direction, Mr Reeves, the discussion branched, as they quite naturally do. I did not notice that it had branched, the subject line was the same and my email client grouped it with the original thread. On this subject, the study is skewed too. What do you mean too? What else is skewed? Because I thought this was still in the same thread. Some articles amounted to little more then a opinion poll at best, at worst just sloppy poll taking. The method was bad, the sample group to small. With more people living in the cities the less % of kids in the rural areas to effect it. I know of a school in Oregon that had a 50% pregnancy rate in its high school, course there were 2 teenage girls in the school. Out here its more like 1 in 5 do not play outside and even those get more outside time then the average city kid Are you going to claim that you read the whole of this story too? Did it sink in that it's not a US study but a British one? Please produce your evidence that the study omitted the results of rural-urban shift in Britain to support your claim that it is skewed. Your right, I did read it and I had my glasses on, it did not sink in that Britain has a vastly different sprawl then the US does. From the numbers in the report I figured it did not matter that it was since the method of sampling was less then useful for anything but a propaganda article. They sampled 1031 adults 18+ across the UK, a population of a bit under 60million. They also left a lot of holes in the report about where the missing %'s are at. Same for stating a majority of from a sample of youth ages 7-16. What happened with the 17 year olds? The study was done with less then a 10th of a percent of the population. In my opinion that made it skewed, the same as the water taste/quality study. I am sorry that I came across in a rude or disputatious manor, it was not my intention. I apologize for my lack of clarity, I know it is a issue I have and try very hard to sure I am writing what I am meaning. Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel list owner On 8/5/07, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Fritz Friesinger wrote: Hey Jeromie, whats wrong with kids running in the streets? I'm guessing the potential to becoming road kill? Doug, N0LKK Kansas USA inc. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/07/30/nplay1 30.xml Telegraph Drive to get children playing outdoors By Ben Farmer Last Updated: 1:50am BST 31/07/2007 Only one in five of today's children play outside in the street or local parks every day, according to new research. A fear of traffic accidents, paedophiles or bullies, and the growth of home electronic entertainment, has meant a whole generation are growing up without the joys of playing free in their neighbourhood. While their parents may have whiled away the summer holidays playing cowboys and indians or impromptu games of football, today's children are more likely to stay indoors or take part in organised sports sessions - and are more likely to be overweight. The poll by Play England, which comes at the start of a campaign to encourage children to play outside, found 21 per cent of children play outside every day, whereas 71 per cent of adults had played outside in their youth. A quarter of children said traffic prevented them playing close to their homes, while adults also cited so-called stranger danger as a reason for not letting their children play outside. Adrian Voce, the director of lottery-funded Play England, said: Children are not allowed out the way they used to be. He said growing rates of obesity in childhood were one symptom of fewer children getting enough exercise outside. If you keep children cooped up in front of the computer for long periods of time, they eat less healthily because food becomes a source of stimulation, said Mr Voce. Fwd from a friend: TO ALL THE KIDS WHO SURVIVED the 1930's, 40's, 50's, 60's and 70's!! First, we survived being born to mothers who smoked and/or drank while they were pregnant. They took aspirin, ate blue cheese dressing, tuna from a can, and didn't get tested for diabetes. Then after that trauma, we were put to sleep on our tummies in baby cribs covered with bright colored lead-based paints. We had no childproof lids on medicine bottles, doors or cabinets and when we rode our bikes
Re: [Biofuel] Pepsi Forced to Admit It's Bottling Tap Water
On 8/5/07, Andres Secco [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Purify water with reverse osmosis? Friends, it strongly depends on what contamination has in it. Drinking water is far more complicated to produce than one step processing as reverse osmosis, electrodyalisis or simple or complex devices. Destilation is what mother nature do for us for free, then aireation in natural streams, simple isn´t it? What do we do when there is no ready water source available? I agree that packing systems contaminates too much, lots of energy and dangerous raw materials. Can you describe how the packing system contaminates the bottled watter? Do you have some figures on how much energy it takes to filter and bottle water en masse as compared to the number of small processors or a city scale one it would take for the same volume? Dangerous is what ways and to what/whom? We are fools as a society, we buy the international companies bright ideas as tab bottled. I know many bottling facilities and all of them bottle tap water or well water, and label them with pure mountains and glaciars, bullshit. And consumer buys and buys. A pity, but that is the way the things are. Not all companies do that. The one I linked near the start of the thread uses a capped spring. The water comes up naturally and flows to a pool that is then used to feed the bottling plant. There is a mountain in the background of the logo, the facility sits in a valley at 3400feet between 7000ft mountains (I am 10 miles from the site in the same valley) I agree a lot of bottling companies are little more then flim flam artists. Is there any kind of legislation we can request that will help? - Original Message - From: Jeromie Reeves [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2007 4:50 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Pepsi Forced to Admit It's Bottling Tap Water On 8/5/07, Thomas Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jeromie, To my question: Isn't it possible to purify water by reverse osmosis, or whatever, on a small scale so that people can have good drinking water in their own houses/apartments/places of work? You answered: Yup that is possible. I have seen and used a number of small water purifiers .. Thanks for the reply As for the rest, I'm baffled. (I admit to falling for tongue-in-cheek humor here in the past.) I'm also not the best at getting my ideas and thoughts across the way I mean. At $1 - $3 for half a liter of bottled water wouldn't the price of filtration quickly pay for itself ? Depends on how much you drink. The small systems are in the $500 range. When I buy water its $1/bottle and I only do 50~75/year. I make a lot of tea and it is all with tap. Exactly! A family of four then, would consume 200 -300 bottles a year. The system pays for itself in about 2 years. The fact that you use tap water to make your tea suggests that your tap water is at least tolerable. I have a family of 4. My children do not get any where near that much bottled material. They get 1 each per weekend when we do trips. We make a gallon of tea, juice, lemon aid, or such and reuse the bottles for them. For us (well mostly me) I drink what we take along. My wife buys 15~20 bottles a month, mostly on the weekends. Shouldn't housing plans, whether for individual families or apartments, consider water quality and, if necessary, include water filtration units in the design? No, they should not, at least not only because the water might be poor. That is a business decision and something the builder has no need to do, unless they want to charge for it. The home buyer can have it build in if/when they want it, it adds VERY little to the price of the home. As for apartments that is a city responsibility, and the city should be held accountable for good water. In planning a house, an apartment building, even a shopping mall, one should not even CONSIDER water quality that is available. ??? In a house, the designer, builder, contractors, NO they should not unless the building owner wants them to. Why should it be the responsibility of anyone except the land owner, or the person commissioning the house? In a apartment building its up to the building owner. Do I want a higher end apt with more features then the one down the block? Do i want a pool? A gated drive? Covered parking spots? Else wise, it is the job of the city. In a shopping mall or such, the same thoughts as the apt building apply, but the city water should be good enough. If it is not they should get the city to fix the water quality, that is the job of the city. This may sound odd, but before I made the major investment of buying a house I tasted the water. Not odd at all, I did the same when looking at houses that had wells. City water (here) I already
Re: [Biofuel] Pepsi Forced to Admit It's....
Whats with the miss direction? This is not on topic to the discussion at hand (the bottle waste and poison). On this subject, the study is skewed too. With more people living in the cities the less % of kids in the rural areas to effect it. I know of a school in Oregon that had a 50% pregnancy rate in its high school, course there were 2 teenage girls in the school. Out here its more like 1 in 5 do not play outside and even those get more outside time then the average city kid On 8/5/07, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Fritz Friesinger wrote: Hey Jeromie, whats wrong with kids running in the streets? I'm guessing the potential to becoming road kill? Doug, N0LKK Kansas USA inc. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/07/30/nplay130.xml Telegraph Drive to get children playing outdoors By Ben Farmer Last Updated: 1:50am BST 31/07/2007 Only one in five of today's children play outside in the street or local parks every day, according to new research. A fear of traffic accidents, paedophiles or bullies, and the growth of home electronic entertainment, has meant a whole generation are growing up without the joys of playing free in their neighbourhood. While their parents may have whiled away the summer holidays playing cowboys and indians or impromptu games of football, today's children are more likely to stay indoors or take part in organised sports sessions - and are more likely to be overweight. The poll by Play England, which comes at the start of a campaign to encourage children to play outside, found 21 per cent of children play outside every day, whereas 71 per cent of adults had played outside in their youth. A quarter of children said traffic prevented them playing close to their homes, while adults also cited so-called stranger danger as a reason for not letting their children play outside. Adrian Voce, the director of lottery-funded Play England, said: Children are not allowed out the way they used to be. He said growing rates of obesity in childhood were one symptom of fewer children getting enough exercise outside. If you keep children cooped up in front of the computer for long periods of time, they eat less healthily because food becomes a source of stimulation, said Mr Voce. Fwd from a friend: TO ALL THE KIDS WHO SURVIVED the 1930's, 40's, 50's, 60's and 70's!! First, we survived being born to mothers who smoked and/or drank while they were pregnant. They took aspirin, ate blue cheese dressing, tuna from a can, and didn't get tested for diabetes. Then after that trauma, we were put to sleep on our tummies in baby cribs covered with bright colored lead-based paints. We had no childproof lids on medicine bottles, doors or cabinets and when we rode our bikes, we had no helmets, not to mention, the risks we took hitchhiking. As infants children, we would ride in cars with no car seats, booster seats, seat belts or air bags. Riding in the back of a pickup on a warm day was always a special treat. We drank water from the garden hose and NOT from a bottle. We shared one soft drink with four friends, from one bottle and NO ONE actually died from this We ate cupcakes, white bread and real butter and drank Kool-aid made with sugar, but we weren't overweight because, WE WERE ALWAYS OUTSIDE PLAYING! We would leave home in the morning and play all day, as long as we were back when the streetlights came on. No one was able to reach us all day. And we were O.K. We would spend hours building our go-carts out of scraps and then ride down the hill, only to find out we forgot the brakes. After running into the bushes a few times, we learned to solve the problem. We did not have Playstations, Nintendo's, X-boxes, no video games at all, no 150 channels on cable, no video movies or DVD's, no surround-sound or CD's, no cell phones, no personal computer's, no Internet or chat rooms... WE HAD FRIENDS and we went outside and found them! We fell out of trees, got cut, broke bones and teeth and there were no lawsuits from these accidents. We ate worms and mud pies made from dirt, and the worms did not live in us forever. We were given BB guns for our 10th birthdays, made up games with sticks and tennis balls and, although we were told it would happen, we did not put out very many eyes. We rode bikes or walked to a friend's house and knocked on the door or rang the bell, or just walked in and talked to them! Little League had tryouts and not everyone made the team. Those who didn't had to learn to deal with disappointment. Imagine that!! The idea of a parent bailing us out if we broke the law was unheard of. They actually sided with the law! These generations have produced some of the best risk-takers, problem solvers and inventors ever! The past 50 years have been an explosion of
Re: [Biofuel] Pepsi Forced to Admit It's Bottling Tap Water
tasting the water before renting/buying. You: Not odd at all, I did the same when looking at houses that had wells.City water (here) I already knew the taste/quality. I see how that can be confusing. To me it was not really changing the value of the house. The way I meant that it is not a factor in todays world is that MOST people do not care beyond does it work. I have a friend who does house evaluations and he says almost no one cares about his opinion on the water. Jeromie, this discussion began with Keith posting an article that exposed bottled water from Pepsi as being little more than tap water; good tap water. Included was discussion of the environmental consequences of packaging, transporting and disposing of literally millions and millions of bottles that contain tap water. We have always paid for water, even in your fathers time. You're right. Aside from the cost of digging/drilling wells, the metabolic energy costs of hand pumping/toting from the creek/electric bills for pumps etc, there are water bills for city-dwellers. What was the price quoted? Tucson Arizona tap water: From the tap, you can pour over 6.4 gallons for a penny. Back when my father made the comment, I suspect it was much cheaper. I don't recall ever being charged for water when eating out, until the bottled water craze hit. Re-stating my question: Is it possible to filter water so that it is not only healthy, but tastes good too? You now reply: Yes it is. The problem is making it cheap. See your previous answer re: $500 . adds little to the price of a new home. Which answer should I go with? Both answers are true. You need to look at the context for each. When building your own home, that is a piddly amount. When you rent your home, it most likely is not so piddly, and you might not even be allowed to put the unit in. Also this does not take into account the costs for the filters and etc consumables needed every year. Go take a good look at your cities water plant from the head to the sewer ponds. Doing it en mass for a government (or related) body is not cheap. If you think you can do better then start up your own water company, nothing is stopping you but you. I don't have a city. The town near me pumps water out of an aquafir. It's real good too. I simply asked if it was possible for an individual to achieve better water quality, including better taste, through water filtration. I meant this as a example of why city water is what it is as compared to bottled water. Part of the issue was also the price of city water and why it is so expensive and that some people could not afford it. But out of curiosity, would my water company be putting water from a tap into plastic bottles and then transporting it over great distances to be sold to an unsuspecting public? Would we run adds on TV, in magazines, and on billboards suggesting that this is special water. Would we have athletes, beautiful models, even movie stars giving testimonies as to how special this bottled water was. What would we call it? Aquafina and Dasani are real cool names, but they're already taken. Somehow Tom's Tap doesn't sound special enough even though it is real good water. As a friend, who used to be in advertising often says: Image and logo recognition. That would be up to you. I agree there needs to be a clearer release on what the product is. I did not do a good job of expressing myself. Gotta go work on the logo. Tom - Original Message - From: Jeromie Reeves [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2007 2:36 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Pepsi Forced to Admit It's Bottling Tap Water On 8/4/07, Thomas Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: John, I have well water. It is good. I've been to people's houses and have been given bottled water to drink. most water treatment plants do not filter quite like these bottled water companies. What cities can do reverse osmosis on a city scale? I haven't researched water purifiers. Isn't it possible to purify water by reverse osmosis, or whatever, on a small scale so that people can have good drinking water in their own houses/apartments/places of work? Yup that is possible. I have seen and used a number of small water purifiers at some eco minded peoples homes here in the valley. They all have solar panels and a few have wind (thats where I met them) www.freedrinkingwater.com Couldn't they then put it in durable (nalgene?) bottles for when they go out? This, rather than buying bottled tap water that has been transported many miles, in disposable containers that contribute so much to landfills, let alone the energy/resources wasted to produce. Like I said, I haven't looked into At $1 - $3 for half a liter of bottled water wouldn't the price
Re: [Biofuel] Pepsi Forced to Admit It's Bottling Tap Water
Those trace elements are put back by many water companies. To get good, pure natural water, buy from www.oregontrailmountainspringwater.com On 8/4/07, doug [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, there is a problem with distilled water (or reverse Osmosis). The trace elements are removed from the water. When distilled water is consumed, the trace elements are taken from the body to balance the water. You need the trace elements. Tap water is balanced water, so does not strip trace elements from the body (although I don't like consuming chlorine regards Doug On Saturday 04 August 2007 03:22:02 am John Mullan wrote: Some cities may, or may not, have just as clean of a water supply as that provided in the bottled water. But I have had water from the taps of a number of cities. Believe me, the taste of bottled water is much superior. If my tap water tasted as good, I might not buy so much bottled water. And most water treatment plants do not filter quite like these bottled water companies. What cities can do reverse osmosis on a city scale? My 2 cents. John -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Keith Addison Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 12:48 PM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] Pepsi Forced to Admit It's Bottling Tap Water http://www.alternet.org/environment/58604/ AlterNet: Environment: Pepsi Forced to Admit It's Bottling Tap Water By Amy Goodman, Democracy Now! Posted on August 2, 2007 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Pepsi Forced to Admit It's Bottling Tap Water
Yup Coke, Pepsi, and some other large companies are evil polluting corporate entities. The link I posted is to a small (local) bottling company that is not evil. If city water is substandard then that needs dealt with, but what does that have to do with bottled water? The company is spending the money to clean, package, and distribute it. They should be allowed to do so. I also think they should be shut down immediately if there is contaminates in the water. I am not one for piddly fines, a 30 day shut down per offense, after 3 the company is disbanded. Same for city water, there is simply no reason for it other then laziness. Its like this collapsed bridge in MN. How far would 2 billion go for fixing all the bridges in the state? For providing education? For any number of other domestic programs, like wind solar energy. As for the lacking minerals in bottled water, so what? As long as they do not lie about what IS in it, or is NOT in it, then they are fine. If the water does not fit your diet just do not buy it or supplement your diet. Am I missing something? On 8/4/07, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's misrepresentation and profiteering, and probably misappropriation too. These companies are crooks, poisoners, and worldwide water-robbers. Eg.: http://snipurl.com/1p5ux CorpWatch http://snipurl.com/1p5v0 CorpWatch http://snipurl.com/1p5v2 CorpWatch http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg63502.html [Biofuel] Water: a commodity or a fundamental human right? Best Keith Hi, there is a problem with distilled water (or reverse Osmosis). The trace elements are removed from the water. When distilled water is consumed, the trace elements are taken from the body to balance the water. You need the trace elements. Tap water is balanced water, so does not strip trace elements from the body (although I don't like consuming chlorine regards Doug On Saturday 04 August 2007 03:22:02 am John Mullan wrote: Some cities may, or may not, have just as clean of a water supply as that provided in the bottled water. But I have had water from the taps of a number of cities. Believe me, the taste of bottled water is much superior. If my tap water tasted as good, I might not buy so much bottled water. And most water treatment plants do not filter quite like these bottled water companies. What cities can do reverse osmosis on a city scale? My 2 cents. John -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Keith Addison Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 12:48 PM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] Pepsi Forced to Admit It's Bottling Tap Water http://www.alternet.org/environment/58604/ AlterNet: Environment: Pepsi Forced to Admit It's Bottling Tap Water By Amy Goodman, Democracy Now! Posted on August 2, 2007 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Pepsi Forced to Admit It's Bottling Tap Water
On 8/4/07, Thomas Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: John, I have well water. It is good. I've been to people's houses and have been given bottled water to drink. most water treatment plants do not filter quite like these bottled water companies. What cities can do reverse osmosis on a city scale? I haven't researched water purifiers. Isn't it possible to purify water by reverse osmosis, or whatever, on a small scale so that people can have good drinking water in their own houses/apartments/places of work? Yup that is possible. I have seen and used a number of small water purifiers at some eco minded peoples homes here in the valley. They all have solar panels and a few have wind (thats where I met them) www.freedrinkingwater.com Couldn't they then put it in durable (nalgene?) bottles for when they go out? This, rather than buying bottled tap water that has been transported many miles, in disposable containers that contribute so much to landfills, let alone the energy/resources wasted to produce. Like I said, I haven't looked into it. At $1 - $3 for half a liter of bottled water wouldn't the price of filtration quickly pay for itself ? Depends on how much you drink. The small systems are in the $500 range. When I buy water its $1/bottle and I only do 50~75/year. I make a lot of tea and it is all with tap. Shouldn't housing plans, whether for individual families or apartments, consider water quality and, if necessary, include water filtration units in the design? No, they should not, at least not only because the water might be poor. That is a business decision and something the builder has no need to do, unless they want to charge for it. The home buyer can have it build in if/when they want it, it adds VERY little to the price of the home. As for apartments that is a city responsibility, and the city should be held accountable for good water. This may sound odd, but before I made the major investment of buying a house I tasted the water. Not odd at all, I did the same when looking at houses that had wells. City water (here) I already knew the taste/quality. Back then it was common practice to taste the water before buying a house. Quality water was a very high priority. The value of a house or apartment is, at least in part, a function of water quality at the tap. Not today it is not. It is fairly meaningless short of does the water work? There was (is still?) an image associated with bottled water . it's somehow special and so are those that drink it. In view of what we now know, this is B.S. No? Nope, plain water is for poor uncultured people. Now its all about flavored water. I admit that half the water I buy is a brand called Option. I pay $0.88 per bottle and only buy when its on sale. This is mostly for when I am on a trip or going to be working on roofs. What if we decided to ensure good water at our taps and better still, good water at the source? What if we took as much pride in the water coming from our tap as we do in the view we have from our living room or our back deck? We already do demand good water, it just is not enforced. I'm old enough to remember a day when my father would take us to a ball game and complain about having to pay for parking at the stadium lot. He'd say Next thing, we'll be paying for water. We have always paid for water, even in your fathers time. The next time you go out to eat pay attention to the wait staff. They put out free glasses of water. You know why that is? Law. I forget the details but some time ago (100yrs?) people were being charged stupid amounts for a glass of water with a meal (IIRC had to do with hot weather). Law was passed so this is now free. Is it possible to filter water so that it is not only healthy, but tastes good too? Yes it is. The problem is making it cheap. Go take a good look at your cities water plant from the head to the sewer ponds. Doing it en mass for a government (or related) body is not cheap. If you think you can do better then start up your own water company, nothing is stopping you but you. Tom - Original Message - From: John Mullan [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 1:22 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Pepsi Forced to Admit It's Bottling Tap Water Some cities may, or may not, have just as clean of a water supply as that provided in the bottled water. But I have had water from the taps of a number of cities. Believe me, the taste of bottled water is much superior. If my tap water tasted as good, I might not buy so much bottled water. And most water treatment plants do not filter quite like these bottled water companies. What cities can do reverse osmosis on a city scale? My 2 cents. John -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Keith Addison Sent: Friday, August
Re: [Biofuel] Pepsi Forced to Admit It's Bottling Tap Water
On 8/4/07, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yup Coke, Pepsi, and some other large companies are evil polluting corporate entities. The link I posted is to a small (local) bottling company that is not evil. If city water is substandard then that needs dealt with, but what does that have to do with bottled water? The company is spending the money to clean, package, and distribute it. They should be allowed to do so. I also think they should be shut down immediately if there is contaminates in the water. I am not one for piddly fines, a 30 day shut down per offense, after 3 the company is disbanded. Same for city water, there is simply no reason for it other then laziness. Its like this collapsed bridge in MN. How far would 2 billion go for fixing all the bridges in the state? For providing education? For any number of other domestic programs, like wind solar energy. As for the lacking minerals in bottled water, so what? As long as they do not lie about what IS in it, or is NOT in it, then they are fine. If the water does not fit your diet just do not buy it or supplement your diet. Am I missing something? They do lie. Did you read the whole article? Yes I did. I did NOT say the company from the article did not lie, in fact, i even pointed out that they and most (maybe all?) large bottled water companies are evil. I said the small, local bottling company was fairly decent. http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg70602.html [Biofuel] Pepsi Forced to Admit It's Bottling Tap Water Did you miss this bit? The environmental impact of the country's obsession with bottled water has been staggering. Each day an estimated 60 million plastic water bottles are thrown away. Most are not recycled. The Pacific Institute has estimated 20 million barrels of oil are used each year to make the plastic for water bottles. I'm sorry that has nothing to do with drinking bottled water, that is a RECYCLING problem, and we have it with more then just bottled water. You need to separate the garbage of a product from the product it self, they are not the same issue. Wowies 60 million plastic bottles, now compare that to 15 BILLION soda bottles that do not get recycled. This jumping on bottled water is just a crap response to the elitist sheik ooh its bottled water, i'm cool Here's Blanding's article: http://www.alternet.org/story/43480/ The Bottled Water Lie By Michael Blanding, AlterNet October 26, 2006 There's good info on water rip-offs in the list archives. The thing is, the companies depleting the aquifers and polluting, that is not a bottled water issue. Its a resource management issue, and some one dropped the ball. The fact that the company makes a profit on it doesn't mater at all. The fact that some city let them tap the resource and abuse it should be the issue. The fact that some of the product was contaminated should be the issue, not the fact that the buyers of the product do not recycle. FTFA: The corporations that sell bottled water are depleting natural resources,.. So what? The act of PRODUCTION depletes something. Even your breathing depletes the air. The problem is not the depletion, its the lack of regulation of the RATE of depletion. ...jacking up prices,... So what? That is the point of business, to charge as much as you can get. If people do not like the price, do not buy it. So far none of the people who buy the water do so because the bottle company took over or otherwise shut down the city water. THEY CHOOSE TO BUY IT, Do not come whining about the price. ...and lying when they tell you their water is purer... Again, this is a regulation issue. Same as those cities that have polluted water, regulation is not being enforced. The companies (and many cities) are being lazy and the people who watch over them are too. Thats as bad as kids running in the street, whos at fault? The child who does not really get it or the lacking parent? I vote the missing parent. ..and tastes better than the stuff that comes out of the tap. This is a matter of opinion and has nothing to do with the real issues here and is only there to detract from the real issue, the lack of enforced regulation and companies who are being bad. If it were up to me they would get their toys taken away (IE, confiscate the bottling plant and the water resource they abused). Best Keith On 8/4/07, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's misrepresentation and profiteering, and probably misappropriation too. These companies are crooks, poisoners, and worldwide water-robbers. Eg.: http://snipurl.com/1p5ux CorpWatch http://snipurl.com/1p5v0 CorpWatch http://snipurl.com/1p5v2 CorpWatch http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg63502.html [Biofuel] Water: a commodity or a fundamental human right? Best Keith Hi, there is a problem with distilled water (or reverse Osmosis).
Re: [Biofuel] Pepsi Forced to Admit It's....
On 8/4/07, Fritz Friesinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey Jeromie, whats wrong with kids running in the streets? Guess I should have said highway, thats what was in my mind. @all, my daugther as prez of the CSU,kikked Marriott out of Concordiacampus,the had an exclusivecontract with the University and charged.$can 18.00 for a pitcher of water at a speakers event.A little to greedy i guess! After a short campaign of bad puplicity against Marriott,the gready bastards had to leave campus! This example shows,things can be done on small scale,but with the notorious complicity of mainstreammedia it is not so easy to tackle big buissnes! Very true about the mainstream media. Fritz ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Solar Electricity using Wind Turbines
I thought this was a adaptation of the current solar tower methods. They work very well from what i have read. I wonder if sterlings could be made cheap enough to be more practical then using the tower+mirror method? On 7/28/07, Kirk McLoren [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Would be cheaper if the outer dome wasnt required - just dump the air. Then it looks like the solar towers already tried. AltEnergyNetwork [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Solar Electricity using Wind Turbines - The Conversion of Solar Energy into Electricity in a Closed Cycle driven by Natural Convection very interesting concept. t http://www.globalwarmingsolutions.co.uk/solar_electricity_using_wind_t urbines.htm The Conversion of Solar Energy into Electricity in a Closed Cycle driven by Natural Convection using a solar absorber and convergent nozzle to generate wind energy in a sealed enclosure. a vertical axis horizontal rotation wind turbine to absorb the kinetic energy of the air flow in the throat of the nozzle producing electricity. Summary Since 2001 the author has put forward a series of proposals for harnessing solar energy using natural convection in large sealed ground level solar collectors [1]. The convective energy conversion cycle involved requires no heat rejection and may allow the conversion of solar energy into electricity with very high efficiency. http://www.globalwarmingsolutions.co.uk/solar_electricity_using_wind_t urbines.htm Get your daily alternative energy news Alternate Energy Resource Network 1000+ news sources-resources updated daily http://www.alternate-energy.net Alternate Energy Resource Network - Comments - Forum http://www.alternate-energy.net/B/mboard.php Next_Generation_Grid http://groups.google.com/group/next_generation_grid Alternative_Energy_Politics http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Alternative_Energy_Politics Next_Generation_Grid http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/next_generation_grid Alternative_Energy_Politics http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Alternative_Energy_Politics Tomorrow-energy http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/tomorrow-energy Earth_Rescue_International http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Earth_Rescue_International ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: water and electricity as fuel!
http://freeenergynews.com/Directory/RhodesGas/index.html I think its just a Browns Gas Torch. I have no sound on this PC so I could not tell what was being said. When get home I will watch it. We have all known that you can electrolyze water. On 7/16/07, MK DuPree [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok List...what's up with this? Mike DuPree - Original Message - From: John DuPree [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Arvilla [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Pat DuPree [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Mike DuPree [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 8:30 PM Subject: water and electricity as fuel! boy, this could get us all going in the right direction: http://livedigital.com/content/287275/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Canada and The World Eyes Arctic Resources
Territory is generally specified as land and the area 12 miles from it. Much of the claimed Arctic is a tad more then 12 miles from Canada's landmass. As a side note, Mr Ed Pilkington needs to take a grammar 65 class....is hotting up... Come on! On 7/12/07, Joe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The sovereignty of Canada's northern waters has never been officially recognized byt the US. This is of course so they don't have to ask permission to go under the polar ice with the nuke subs. Joe MK DuPree wrote: Informative article on how the world is running dry (Russian oil empty by 2030) and seeking resources in the Arctic, but apparently not without a Canadian fight, to defend our sovereignty and Canada First. The world is changing, says Stephen Harper, the Canadian Prime Minister, although not sure how his observation that the world is changing relates to Canadian sovereignty. Also on the effects of global warming on the North-west passage. http://environment.guardian.co.uk/climatechange/story/0,,2123457,00.html Canada Flexes Its Muscles in Scramble for the Arctic By Ed Pilkington The Guardian UK Wednesday 11 July 2007 Eight countries lay claim to oil-rich, unspoilt region. Global warming opens up fabled Northwest Passage. It is not the kind of militaristic statement expected of the peace-loving Canadians. In front of a choreographed line-up of 120 sailors in their summer whites at a naval base outside Victoria in British Columbia, the prime minister, Stephen Harper, gave a warning to other nations with their eye on the potentially oil-rich Arctic. Canada has a choice when it comes to defending our sovereignty over the Arctic, he said. We either use it or lose it. And make no mistake, this government intends to use it. In other places at other times his words could be dismissed as posturing. But he backed them up with the chequebook, announcing that he was ordering up to eight military patrol ships that would be converted for use in ice up to a metre thick, and a new deep-water port that would service them. Total bill: C$7bn (£3.3bn). Mr Harper's message, and the belligerent style in which it was delivered, are a sign that the Arctic, the vast ice-covered ocean around the North Pole, is hotting up - both literally, through global warming, and metaphorically as a political issue. With Canada, Denmark, Russia and the United States all having claims on the region, together with those of Iceland, Norway, Sweden and Finland, international tension in the region is mounting. There was no dissembling in Mr Harper's speech. The ongoing discovery of the north's resource riches, coupled with the potential impact of climate change, has made the region a growing area of interest and concern, he said. As the statement implies, two areas of international competition lie behind the Canadian prime minister's actions. The first is that the Arctic region is rich in natural resources. It is thought to hold up to a quarter of the world's undiscovered reserves of oil and gas, which as the established fields in the Middle East and elsewhere run dry will become increasingly valuable and sought after. There are also known to be major deposits of diamonds, silver, copper, zinc and, potentially, uranium. It also has rich fish stocks. Desire to exploit these resources has led to tensions with the US over the offshore border between Alaska and Canada, an area known as the wedge, where one day oil and gas exploration could prove to be lucrative. The area above the North Pole, which under international law is an area owned by nobody, has also started to be targeted. Last month Russia astonished observers of the region by announcing a virtual land grab of about 400,000 square miles, using the premise that an underwater shelf known as the Lomonosov ridge connects its Arctic territories with the North Pole. The claim was met with sceptical snorts by many Arctic scientists, who pointed out that Russia's existing oil reserves are likely to be depleted by 2030. The second area of dispute concerns the holy grail of commercial shipping: the North-west Passage. Once opened, it would shorten the maritime trade route from Europe to Asia by some 2,150 nautical miles from the current navigation through the Panama canal. Efforts to find a way through the perilous icy seas of the Arctic archipelago, linking the ocean with the Pacific, first begun under Martin Frobisher in the 1570s, have claimed many lives, most famously those of Sir John Franklin and his team of 128 men who disappeared in 1845. But what human effort failed to achieve is now happening through human pollution as global warming starts to open the route by melting the ice cap. Since 2000, commercial shipping has been able to negotiate the route during a short summer period, and scientists expect that annual sliver of time to
Re: [Biofuel] TiO2 (Titanium Dioxide) Lights
UV light (when powerful enough) can sterilize many things. There are a number of water plants that use UV for sterilizing. I dunno about the Ozone Lights doing much good on the O3 side (namely, is O3 a sterilizing agent?). I think there are better ways to make O3 such as direct electrical arc (jacobs ladder). Some ion machines also produce O3. Luke Hansen wrote: Hello all, I was just wondering if anyone has heard anything about the effects of these Ozone Lights. I guess that they don't actually create O3, but they do kill airborne pathogens. Most of the online literature that I've found goes back to one study that showed this light effective in killing E. Coli bacteria in clinical trials. Anyone have experiences with this, or anything similiar? Thanks, Luke Any questions? Get answers on any topic at www.Answers.yahoo.com. Try it now. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Pellet fuel options
Ah thats not good. The operating temp of the stove is ~400~750F so that should be ok but it worries me.. What about pure veggie oil or bio-diesel? It could be possible to make pellets with such. Anyone know much about screw type presses like a meat grinder or sausage press? I am thinking something like that would work better for pellet making then the die press type. Jeromie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Friday, November 03, 2006 9:04 AM, Mike Weaver wrote: *burning glycerin produces the toxic gas acrolein Probably not a good idea... * If you burn it hot enough the gas will not be a problem: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_glycerin.html Jeromie Reeves wrote: Now that is a left field idea. They would surely make the wood to the correct size. I did no think they put off that much methane. I know they put off naptha. The time to produce workable material would be long, or need a very large setup. Time I can manage over summer, space I have little of. I wonder how well the pellets would soak up WVO/Glycerin? I could use far less if they soaked up enough to burn hotter. That makes me wonder if the auger pipe is hot enough to help wick the fire down into the hopper? Its surely worth a few tests and trials. What would be better as far as stability in a hot (150F) tube, WVO or glycerin? Jeromie Joe Street wrote: Hey Jeromie; Look into termites. Yeah I'm not joshin you. Feed termites with the wood and bind the dust they make with the glycerin. If you put the termite pile in a sealed container then you can harvest the methane the termites produce and use it as fuel as well ;) Joe Jeromie Reeves wrote: Dave: Nice link, you solved one of the issue, what to use as a binder. Jason: That is a very interesting idea. I was under the impression that WVO does not burn clean due to the FFA's. I was thinking of adding a burn ring to the stove so that it can do waste oil burning but that too looked not to burn clean enough. If WVO/Glycerin will burn clean enough then that mix should work well. Now to find a method to chip branches down to the needed size and not use more energy doing it then the final product gives. Jeromie Jason Katie wrote: what if some kind of sausage packer type press could be made for a mix of sawdust and WVO or glycerine? Jason ICQ#: 154998177 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 1:15 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Pellet fuel options You can probably create press of some type based on this concept: http://www.newdawnengineering.com/website/paper/brick/ Paper, saw dust, straw, etc. Plus, won't corn work as well? -dave On Wednesday, November 01, 2006 9:35 AM, Jeromie Reeves wrote: Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2006 07:35:35 -0800 From: Jeromie Reeves To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] Pellet fuel options Hello. Does anyone else use a pellet stove? Prices have jumped this year from $2.25~2.75 to $4.75+ That fairly dries up the reason to have/use the stove (cheaper cleaner fuel then oil/propane/classic wood) I am looking for other fuel options. I would love to produce my own pellets as I have access to tons of waste wood but it needs at least a season to be ready. I also have not been able to find a pellet machine that was not a million dollar investment. I have been thinking of using straw and hay as we have plenty of it here. Also there is a small personal mill in town that makes a fair bit of sawdust. Does anyone know of a pellet press or know of a way to make one? Jeromie ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Pellet fuel options
I have a oil stove but it is not hooked up and i was not planning to use it (oil here is $3/gl with 100gal min delivery) With out a auto feeder wood chips do not last. I did find that I can burn large wood chunks 4inch cube-ish). They give a nice large heat impulse that lasts for about 3 hours a cube. Mike Weaver wrote: I used to burn it until a chemist really advised me not to. You are correct that it can be done safely - I just don't feel comfortable with the set up I have. I had though about using a ram like you would use for making rammed earth bricks and mixing sawdust and glc. Now I do burn hardwood chips packed firmly into a paper bag. Okay during the day but won't last over night. Keith had some on JTF with more info. matbe there is a safe process there. I have a furnace blower/injection burning device - I was planning to tear it down and clean it - I have thought of burning 80% filtered WVO 16% RUG and 4% Isoprop, probably mixed with some BD and perhaps #1 HO to keep it thinned out. Good Winter bench project. -Mike Jeromie Reeves wrote: Ah thats not good. The operating temp of the stove is ~400~750F so that should be ok but it worries me.. What about pure veggie oil or bio-diesel? It could be possible to make pellets with such. Anyone know much about screw type presses like a meat grinder or sausage press? I am thinking something like that would work better for pellet making then the die press type. Jeromie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Friday, November 03, 2006 9:04 AM, Mike Weaver wrote: *burning glycerin produces the toxic gas acrolein Probably not a good idea... * If you burn it hot enough the gas will not be a problem: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_glycerin.html Jeromie Reeves wrote: Now that is a left field idea. They would surely make the wood to the correct size. I did no think they put off that much methane. I know they put off naptha. The time to produce workable material would be long, or need a very large setup. Time I can manage over summer, space I have little of. I wonder how well the pellets would soak up WVO/Glycerin? I could use far less if they soaked up enough to burn hotter. That makes me wonder if the auger pipe is hot enough to help wick the fire down into the hopper? Its surely worth a few tests and trials. What would be better as far as stability in a hot (150F) tube, WVO or glycerin? Jeromie Joe Street wrote: Hey Jeromie; Look into termites. Yeah I'm not joshin you. Feed termites with the wood and bind the dust they make with the glycerin. If you put the termite pile in a sealed container then you can harvest the methane the termites produce and use it as fuel as well ;) Joe Jeromie Reeves wrote: Dave: Nice link, you solved one of the issue, what to use as a binder. Jason: That is a very interesting idea. I was under the impression that WVO does not burn clean due to the FFA's. I was thinking of adding a burn ring to the stove so that it can do waste oil burning but that too looked not to burn clean enough. If WVO/Glycerin will burn clean enough then that mix should work well. Now to find a method to chip branches down to the needed size and not use more energy doing it then the final product gives. Jeromie Jason Katie wrote: what if some kind of sausage packer type press could be made for a mix of sawdust and WVO or glycerine? Jason ICQ#: 154998177 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 1:15 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Pellet fuel options You can probably create press of some type based on this concept: http://www.newdawnengineering.com/website/paper/brick/ Paper, saw dust, straw, etc. Plus, won't corn work as well? -dave On Wednesday, November 01, 2006 9:35 AM, Jeromie Reeves wrote: Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2006 07:35:35 -0800 From: Jeromie Reeves To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] Pellet fuel options Hello. Does anyone else use a pellet stove? Prices have jumped this year from $2.25~2.75 to $4.75+ That fairly dries up the reason to have/use the stove (cheaper cleaner fuel then oil/propane/classic wood) I am looking for other fuel options. I would love to produce my own pellets as I have access to tons of waste wood but it needs at least a season to be ready. I also have not been able to find a pellet machine that was not a million dollar investment. I have been thinking of using straw and hay as we have plenty of it here. Also there is a small personal mill in town
Re: [Biofuel] Pellet fuel options
Dave: Nice link, you solved one of the issue, what to use as a binder. Jason: That is a very interesting idea. I was under the impression that WVO does not burn clean due to the FFA's. I was thinking of adding a burn ring to the stove so that it can do waste oil burning but that too looked not to burn clean enough. If WVO/Glycerin will burn clean enough then that mix should work well. Now to find a method to chip branches down to the needed size and not use more energy doing it then the final product gives. Jeromie Jason Katie wrote: what if some kind of sausage packer type press could be made for a mix of sawdust and WVO or glycerine? Jason ICQ#: 154998177 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 1:15 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Pellet fuel options You can probably create press of some type based on this concept: http://www.newdawnengineering.com/website/paper/brick/ Paper, saw dust, straw, etc. Plus, won't corn work as well? -dave On Wednesday, November 01, 2006 9:35 AM, Jeromie Reeves wrote: Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2006 07:35:35 -0800 From: Jeromie Reeves To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] Pellet fuel options Hello. Does anyone else use a pellet stove? Prices have jumped this year from $2.25~2.75 to $4.75+ That fairly dries up the reason to have/use the stove (cheaper cleaner fuel then oil/propane/classic wood) I am looking for other fuel options. I would love to produce my own pellets as I have access to tons of waste wood but it needs at least a season to be ready. I also have not been able to find a pellet machine that was not a million dollar investment. I have been thinking of using straw and hay as we have plenty of it here. Also there is a small personal mill in town that makes a fair bit of sawdust. Does anyone know of a pellet press or know of a way to make one? Jeromie ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.22/512 - Release Date: 11/1/2006 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Pellet fuel options
Now that is a left field idea. They would surely make the wood to the correct size. I did no think they put off that much methane. I know they put off naptha. The time to produce workable material would be long, or need a very large setup. Time I can manage over summer, space I have little of. I wonder how well the pellets would soak up WVO/Glycerin? I could use far less if they soaked up enough to burn hotter. That makes me wonder if the auger pipe is hot enough to help wick the fire down into the hopper? Its surely worth a few tests and trials. What would be better as far as stability in a hot (150F) tube, WVO or glycerin? Jeromie Joe Street wrote: Hey Jeromie; Look into termites. Yeah I'm not joshin you. Feed termites with the wood and bind the dust they make with the glycerin. If you put the termite pile in a sealed container then you can harvest the methane the termites produce and use it as fuel as well ;) Joe Jeromie Reeves wrote: Dave: Nice link, you solved one of the issue, what to use as a binder. Jason: That is a very interesting idea. I was under the impression that WVO does not burn clean due to the FFA's. I was thinking of adding a burn ring to the stove so that it can do waste oil burning but that too looked not to burn clean enough. If WVO/Glycerin will burn clean enough then that mix should work well. Now to find a method to chip branches down to the needed size and not use more energy doing it then the final product gives. Jeromie Jason Katie wrote: what if some kind of sausage packer type press could be made for a mix of sawdust and WVO or glycerine? Jason ICQ#: 154998177 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 1:15 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Pellet fuel options You can probably create press of some type based on this concept: http://www.newdawnengineering.com/website/paper/brick/ Paper, saw dust, straw, etc. Plus, won't corn work as well? -dave On Wednesday, November 01, 2006 9:35 AM, Jeromie Reeves wrote: Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2006 07:35:35 -0800 From: Jeromie Reeves To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] Pellet fuel options Hello. Does anyone else use a pellet stove? Prices have jumped this year from $2.25~2.75 to $4.75+ That fairly dries up the reason to have/use the stove (cheaper cleaner fuel then oil/propane/classic wood) I am looking for other fuel options. I would love to produce my own pellets as I have access to tons of waste wood but it needs at least a season to be ready. I also have not been able to find a pellet machine that was not a million dollar investment. I have been thinking of using straw and hay as we have plenty of it here. Also there is a small personal mill in town that makes a fair bit of sawdust. Does anyone know of a pellet press or know of a way to make one? Jeromie ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Pellet fuel options
Hello. Does anyone else use a pellet stove? Prices have jumped this year from $2.25~2.75 to $4.75+ That fairly dries up the reason to have/use the stove (cheaper cleaner fuel then oil/propane/classic wood) I am looking for other fuel options. I would love to produce my own pellets as I have access to tons of waste wood but it needs at least a season to be ready. I also have not been able to find a pellet machine that was not a million dollar investment. I have been thinking of using straw and hay as we have plenty of it here. Also there is a small personal mill in town that makes a fair bit of sawdust. Does anyone know of a pellet press or know of a way to make one? Jeromie ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] WHAT REALLY HAPPENED ON SEPT 11
I have to disagree. A friend of mines father was working a few blocks away and saw the plane come in. That was how I found out the 9/11 events happened (I do not watch tv very much). Now maybe the made a cruise missle up to look like a plane, but it surely was a plane looking object that hit. Jeromie Jason Katie wrote: the pentagon took a cruise missile, thats all there is to that one. but i am inclined to agree with the fact that an insulated, fueled heat source will gather heat to the structural failure point. i have seen it in my own tinkerings as well. (just not on such a frightening scale) Jason ICQ#: 154998177 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: robert and benita rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 9:38 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] WHAT REALLY HAPPENED ON SEPT 11 D. Mindock wrote: Robert, The towers and bldg 7 are just part of a larger puzzle. You want to believe the buildings all fell down the same exact way, go ahead. They didn't fall in the exact same way, but the reasons they collapsed are similar. I've explained this in another post. But what of the numerous explosions throughout the buildings after they were hit by the airliners and before they fell? Fire, ignited by the impact, spread rapidly through the building. Anything that could burn, did. I've seen hillsides explode when ignited by fire. I've seen fire move so fast that deer are engulfed in flames trying to flee. Fire is unpredictable. At the time, I was surprised the towers stayed up as long as they did. What about the molten steel found in the basement? There's a LOT of energy in the mass of material cascading 110 floors to the ground. All of the friction, coupled with the heat of the fire itself, was insulated from dissipating and concentrated by the debris on top of it. I've seen bits of charcoal still hot enough to glow buried in wood stove ash days after the last fire in the stove. Molten steel in the basement of the WTC is not remarkable. What about the puffs of smoke on the floor levels below the falling floors above? One of the buildings collapsed from the center first. What you're observing in the photos is overpressure and debris escaping in a lateral direction from the force of overhead compression. What about the very high temperatures recorded in the rubble, much higher than jet fuel is capable? Vigorously rub your hands together and you'll increase the temperature of your skin much higher than is normal, too. The vast mass of material falling that distance will create tremendous friction. Why did bldg 7 fall in the same manner as the towers even though its construction was not the same as the towers? The middle floors on building 7 were on fire for a long time. Even the fire department realized they were going to lose that building and pulled their firefighters away. Your Occam's Razor is being severely overused. I don't think so. The WTC collapse makes more sense to me than does the explanation for the Pentagon. And the towers were a minor part of 9/11's strange occurances. What about Able Danger? Why was this info ignored by the 9/11 Commission? Etc., etc. You need to look at the whole series of bizarre dots to get the whole picture. There are MANY unanswered questions. There are MANY pieces to the puzzle that don't fit. I am unsatisfied with the official story of that day, but I don't have a problem understanding that fire from two fully loaded airliners brought down the WTC buildings. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.5/451 - Release Date: 9/19/2006 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] 34.6 cents per kilowatt hour. PG
We pay 9 cents per kw/h. There is a $20 You have our service fee in case you do not use any electricity. My average bill is $70. A colder then normal winter pushed that up (and my little sister staying and setting the temp to 85F). I did just move and now I pay 7 cents as this is not a commercial building.Paying more then 12 cents per kw/h just seams like insanity to me. Micro Co generation is a nice idea but should be thought of as energy efficiency not production. Wind and solar are fairly cheap (compared to 22 or 35 cents per kw/h). Even if all you do is grid tie and sell the power to the local power company you could easily break even in a short time. California has a lot of decent looking rebates for home solar (nothing on wind?). Oregon (or at least OTEC) has a $600 per 1kw/h generation capacity rebate but it is also on solar only. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Micro_Cogeneration/ Jeromie Kirk McLoren wrote: Why on earth would you pay that much? At 22 cents lots of ways are cheaper. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Micro_Cogeneration/ Kirk */Andres Secco [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: My god! , how reality change from one continent to another. Last month I almost had an heart attack when I saw my bill of $ 100 when spent 450 kw-hr. I live in chile a country with no nuclear power plants, only hidro and combined cicle power plants. Think you spent too much in electricity. - Original Message - *From:* Zeke Yewdall mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org *Sent:* Monday, August 28, 2006 12:53 PM *Subject:* Re: [Biofuel] 34.6 cents per kilowatt hour. PG Hmmm. How do you get a small home like that to use such an enormous amount of electricity. The average home in Coloado uses about a quarter of that, and one with AC usually are only around 1,200kWh a month or so. Yes, 113 degrees and humid is pretty hard to deal with, but how efficient is her air conditioner? Are the window's well shaded. What color is the roof, and does the attic have a radient barrier and good insulation? What's the air leakage rate. Did she consider all of these factors when she bought the house? It's seems like she bought a hummer and is now complaining about the cost to buy fuel for it And contrary to the article, she does have a choice, if it's too expensive. California, in the IOU territories, actually has one of the better PV incentive programs in the state. Now, if she's using 3,100kWh a month, that would require about a 30kW array, which is too big to fit on most roofs. However, with some money put into insulation and efficiency, she could probably get completely off of PGE power with somewhere around 3 to 4kW array, which is the most common size going in in California PV power is generally around 25 cents a kWh levelized cost, and efficiency negawatts are even lower. Certainly better than 34.6cents when you hit the third tier of PGE pricing. If there was mention of her having considered the various options for reducing her utility bill, and complaining that she couldn't afford the up front costs of these (which is a legitimate barrier to more widespread acceptance), so was forced to accept her old inefficient stuff which has higher eventual cost, but no up front cost, then perhaps I'd have more sympathy, but to just whine that the utility is charging too much and playing the victim doesn't extract much sympathy from me. On 8/26/06, *Kirk McLoren* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.redding.com/redd/nw_local/article/0,2232,REDD_17533_4947248,00.html http://www.redding.com/redd/nw_local/article/0,2232,REDD_17533_4947248,00.html Electric bills give a shock PGE hopes credit will ease surprise over July statements *By Scott Mobley, Record Searchlight* *August 26, 2006* Kathy Heath's July utility bill was as much as a house payment. Pacific Gas and Electric Co. charged Heath, of Palo Cedro, $801.03 to power her 1,850-square-foot home from June 22 through July 22. Her family of four used 3,184 kilowatts that month even though Heath made sure the thermostat was never set lower than 78 degrees. http://adsremote.scripps.com/event.ng/Type=clickFlightID=2031298AdID=2040417TargetID=2012605Targets=2001053,2003385,2007022,2010118,2012605,2009198,2008000RawValues=Redirect=http:%2f%2fwww.advertisersite.com
Re: [Biofuel] satellite dish collectors
Depends on the tracking unit. Most were setup and knew about where the sat should be located then used a AGC loop to to fine tracking. A easy sun tracker would do about the same using some photo diodes or small solar cells at 4 points on the dish wired to just balance the readings from opposing units. It is trivial to use a embedded setup to track the sun. Interfacing that to your tracker could be a issue. If you send me specs on what you have I would be happy to see what could be done. Zeke Yewdall wrote: a little reprogramming of the tracking software should fix that, right? On 6/26/06, *Dwight HoganCamp* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Zeke Yewdall wrote: Yeah, I'd go for a larger one -- more energy collection. I think the larger ones are also tracking? wherease the current generation satellit dishes are fixed. Yeah, but they tracked the satellite, not the sun. Dwight ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] $100 laptop arrives
Its about time they demo it out. They have had the hardware spec for over 2 years and I was told they had a working model over a year ago. Its not easy making a sub $100 laptop. The trick is that you and I will not get to buy them, they are for large million dollar orders only. They want to put one in every school for every kid as well as under developed countries. Search Slashdot.org for the entire history of this device. Jeromie Kirk McLoren wrote: News: Working Model of $100 Laptop Steals MITX Spotlight http://ct.enews.eweek.com/rd/cts?d=186-3817-10-80-320538-447722-0-0-0-1 At the awards show recognizing technological innovations, One Laptop per Child's Negroponte demonstrates a model that boots Fedora Linux. Check out the slide show too. http://ct.enews.eweek.com/rd/cts?d=186-3817-10-80-320538-447722-0-0-0-1 Slide Show: Working Model of the $100 Laptop Arrives http://ct.enews.eweek.com/rd/cts?d=186-3817-10-80-320538-447725-0-0-0-1 __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] List Test
Just double checking a new config Jeromie ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Leave No Mad Cow Behind
So whats the deal here? The company WANTS to do more testing, not less. Its the USDA that wants less. Did you read the article? This seams like a good thing (company wanting to not be evil). Im sure part of the desire for more tests is due to the company not wanting to get sued. That is just good business, and they are right, Consumers want more testing. Jeromie Evergreen Solutions wrote: Welcome to Americalol, where our inspectors are paid by the company, not the government/USDA...same thing for miners and crop inspectors... If any of this is news to you, then you obviously haven't read Fast Food Nation, which does a very good job chronicling the conditions present in slaughterhouses. The trick w/ mad cow is that it can only be transmitted by cows who are allowed to eat the brain/spinal matter of infected cowsand cows aren't supposed to eat meatbut byproducts are cheap protein... But anyway, the chances of you getting MCD are significantly less than the chances of you getting E. Coli or intestinal wormsand it's estimated that 1 in 4 americans has worms from red meat But I eat it anyway, lol...but hopefully soon I'll be switching to small scale farmers and locally produced, grain/hay fed cattle (we have to make it to slaughtering season first). And guess what...there won't be any USDA inspections at ALL, and my eggs won't be pasteurized... ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Let me choose
How about we start suing candidates who make public claims and then do not live up to them? A verbal contract is still a contract. Jeromie JJJN wrote: I say we start a three party system in the US. The Republican is one The Democrat are another The election is held and you go vote - you can vote for one or the other, But, if you think that one and the other are not worthy of the post then you can, Vote for SAM, Now if SAM wins the popular vote, Three things happen, (1) Public humiliation of one ant the other in stocks (visualize both of the last candidates in stocks (see Opus too)) (2) They are then Tar and feathered (3) We start over with two more. Now we will either get some real good folks elected or ... well you know how us Americans love sports and betting ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] hybrid efficiency
Are you serious? N. America has cheap fuel? Please show me this cheap fuel as I pay WAY more for a gallon of gas then I do a gallon of bottled water. Jeromie Andrew Netherton wrote: I'll bet that research would show a mighty quick return on investment if they had done the study based on European fuel costs, and not our cheaper-than-bottled-water fuel here in North America. Andrew Netherton On 3/9/06, AltEnergyNetwork [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Research Shows Only two out Six Hybrid Cars Recoup Cost Within 5 Years http://www.alternate-energy.net/N/news.php?detail=n1141917443.news Yonkers, NY - Consumer Reports is revising the cost analysis in a story that examines the ownership costs and financial benefits associated with hybrid cars. The story, titled The dollars and sense of hybrids, appears in the Annual April Auto issue of CR, on newsstands now. Consumer Reports is correcting a calculation error involving the depreciation for the six hybrid vehicles that, in the story, were compared to their conventionally powered counterparts. The error led the publication to overstate how much extra money the hybrids will cost owners during the first five years. full article http://www.alternate-energy.net/N/news.php?detail=n1141917443.news Get your daily alternative energy news Alternate Energy Resource Network 1000+ news sources-resources updated daily http://www.alternate-energy.net Next Generation Grid http://groups.yahoo.com/group/next_generation_grid/ Tomorrow-energy http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tomorrow-energy/ Alternative Energy Politics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alternative_Energy_Politics/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] What the
doug wrote: Jeromie Reeves wrote: http://www.unitednuclear.com/ WARNING! - The Government is actively attempting to eliminate all chemical sales to the public. This action has been initiated by the CPSC (Consumer Product Safety Commission). Ourselves (and other chemical suppliers) are now faced with legal action against us. If we lose this court battle, it will be illegal to even own a chemistry set. Click Here for more info. I guess buying gas, or propane, or table salt, ... really... ...all access to chemicals ? will they make the agriculture industry stop supplying chemicals to the public? the page actually outlines those items on the list to be banned, pyrotechnic supplies, used by hobbyists and terrrsts alike. But we already know that someone with a strong intention can turn a box cutter and an airline ticket into a weapon of mass destruction. Yes it outlines what is being tried to be made illegal today. I am just wondering what will be made illegal next. The justification for this is what worries me. Do you know what a ball mill is? They are cheap and easy to build and are used to take the powder/chunks that are of size A and make them size B. This law will stop nothing and only make it harder for the average person to get hobby supplies. Its like trying to stop people from making fuel oil fertilizer bomb's by baning the of more then X pounds of fertilizer to a single person per month/year if they are not a farmer. I may just be paranoid, maybe not. Jeromie snip Jeromie ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] What the: outlawing chemical sales to the public
can go build one from a old tire. I am sure others can do far better. If you can get me some details on this (proposed legislation or regulations) I have contacts here that I can alert to help put a stop to this. I will do what I can, so far that is to email them and ask for more information. Mike McGinness Jeromie Reeves wrote: http://www.unitednuclear.com/ WARNING! - The Government is actively attempting to eliminate all chemical sales to the public. This action has been initiated by the CPSC (Consumer Product Safety Commission). Ourselves (and other chemical suppliers) are now faced with legal action against us. If we lose this court battle, it will be illegal to even own a chemistry set. Click Here for more info. While this does not effect bio fuel production directly it comes from we do not like what you CAN do with these so we are taking them away. How long before they feel the same about things that do go into biofules? no buying more then 1/2 gallon a month of methonal or some other item that is not needed by the general public but is very dear to the hobbyist. Jeromie ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] What the: outlawing chemical sales to the public
Yes a person could make some very nasty things. The problem I see with the outlawing of chems is that if I really wanted to make nasty stuff I can even with out comercial access to such chems. A ball mill and a hacksaw will let me make fine grain powder of just about anything I want (I need more ceramic pellets). The people who do nasty type stuff can do the same. This type of law might stop the 10yo down the block from building a firework or pipe bomb but I really think there is a far larger issue in that type of case. Whiskey Tango Foxtrot were the parents!? I am tired of seeing crap law to protect people against other people when the time/effort would have been better spent on education. I think that education of real terrorist is the best solution (along with not screwing with someone else country too). That leaves the real mentally unbalanced people, mostly in the USA, to fear bombings from. I am willing to risk a random bombing in exchange for my freedom. I do expect there to be mechanisms in place to weed these unstable people out and cure or confine them. I know my views are not sane, no need to point that out, but if you have a saner one let me know. Jeromie Evergreen Solutions wrote: This could be a pain in the tookus, but look at this site I found the other day: http://www.unitednuclear.com/ All in all it's quite a fun site, but selling things like FeO2 and Aluminum on the same page for very cheap is...well...scary about who could get it? And look at all the other stuff they have, plus recipes for homemade fireworks...For about $20 of materials + shipping from that site, you could concoct something awfully, awfully nasty. But, I think if this sort of thing does really happen, the legislation I mean, we'll see more co-op's as a way around it. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] What the
http://www.unitednuclear.com/ WARNING! - The Government is actively attempting to eliminate all chemical sales to the public. This action has been initiated by the CPSC (Consumer Product Safety Commission). Ourselves (and other chemical suppliers) are now faced with legal action against us. If we lose this court battle, it will be illegal to even own a chemistry set. Click Here for more info. While this does not effect bio fuel production directly it comes from we do not like what you CAN do with these so we are taking them away. How long before they feel the same about things that do go into biofules? no buying more then 1/2 gallon a month of methonal or some other item that is not needed by the general public but is very dear to the hobbyist. Jeromie ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] [solar-ac] new highly efficient solar powertechnology?
My power co will give you $600/1kw of generating capacity up to 5kw generation capacity. Then they buy it at 2 or 3 cents per kw/h generated. The most costly part is it has to pass a inspection by the state and use state approved products and parts. I can build a 500 watt wind generator for 2~300 no problem. I have been looking at building a 1kw generator just to see what it will cost. Now if only I could get around the we only like type A B and C gear for the $600/kw incentive I could break even right off the bat. I suggest others ask there power co about such as well (mines a co-op so that could be a big difference) Jeromie Reeves Zeke Yewdall wrote: Currently grid tied PV pays back in between 5 years and 60 years, depending on how sunny the climate is, how much electricity costs, and what sort of incentives are in place. In Colorado, with the incentives we have now, it's about 13 years. A 50 watt panel is actually pretty small nowadays. Between 120 and 200 watts is more common. On 2/17/06, Chris lloyd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My attitude is a little more forgiving. If all they have to offer is what you mentioned earlier, then I could not have repeated your sentiments any better. But first, I want to see the numbers. I looked up the cells with Google and one site said the cost of a 50 watt panel was recouped in 2 years, how does that compare with the old type of panel? Chris Wessex Ferret Club www.wessexferretclub.co.uk ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] The End of the Internet
What SBC is asking is not for (just) end users to pay for the BW they use. Its for Google, Yahoo and the likes to pay for the BW that SBC users use FROM them. IE they want the phone standards applies to IP networks and that is just plain wrong to force on people after the fact. All phone companies have a fund where they pay for terminating a phone call, at the end of a billing cycle they settle up that fund. Say I call you. I pay $.05/min for the long distance call. My telephone company has to pay yours for terminating the call on their network. Thats all fine for phone standards, its part of what keeps the base phone (no LD, Call Waiting, Caller ID, Voice Mail, ect) at $40/mo. No I have no option here except for LD from other carriers ON TOP of the base charge. With the current IP networks and the method used for selling bandwidth this is a evil wrong way to do things. Google, Yahoo and the likes already pay SBC for the OC-3, OC-12 and ect lines that they use to reach SBC users. SBC wants to tax them on top of this, not sell them new lines under this idea. There are places that you can buy BW and pay $/GB of transfer. That is still not the same as what SBC wants to do! SBC wants money from the end user ($15/mo for dsl) AND $/per ip connection to [insert.tld.here] AND to charge [insert.tld.here] the same for their OC-XX lines. If SBC only wanted to charge a FAIR amount for GB transfered that would be fine by me as long as its less then the $2/gb I get to pay now for a 2x45mbit pipe. There is more evil in SBC and this idea of per transaction fees then is being seen. They want cause to track what you do, who you do it with and to charge both people (even those NOT being SBC customers) for doing it. Hey it worked in the phone arena for 50+ years while Ma Bell was a monster monopoly and it will work again right? Jeromie Reeves Doug Younker wrote: For quite sometime I have felt the fairest way to charge for internet access, by the amount of data the internet transports on behalf of the user. That would crimp the style of commercial email, cause some to rethink their need to send cutesy html formatted email and large attachments to everyone. Why should low volume users subsidize those who feel they need receive TV programs and movies via the internet? Yes; users of this list may have to pay a subscription fee or hope advertising would underwrite the costs. The concept of free has gotten out of hand on the part of internet users, so has the concept of maximum profit on the part of the corporations. I guess we can always dust off the LL modems and bbs software, but who's going to pay the costs of operating those? As Joe mentioned the hams could resurrect the packet radio net work here in the U. S., I think it's still strong in those countries where the internet has been expensive. I really don't have much to say about the privacy and other issues brought up in the article. Doug, N0LKK ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] The End of the Internet
What are people who make there own biodiesel? I would think of them along the same mentality as the original hackers. Loosely put, people who were not happy with the status quo and decided to take matters into their own hands. Jeromie Reeves Chandan Haldar wrote: Exactly the whole point of the definition in the hackers dictionary. Thanks, Jeromie. Anyway, I can't pretend to be a hacker (however honorable the true meaning of the term may be). Sorry to disappoint all hoping to meet a Matrix character in real life. Chandan Jeromie Reeves wrote: Do not forget the difference between hacker and cracker. The news would have us all think that all hackers==crackers but that simply is not true. The term Hacker first meant a person to did there own computer work (more or less but absolutely with no crime) and crackers were hackers who also did criminal acts. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] The End of the Internet
Do not forget the difference between hacker and cracker. The news would have us all think that all hackers==crackers but that simply is not true. The term Hacker first meant a person to did there own computer work (more or less but absolutely with no crime) and crackers were hackers who also did criminal acts. Pirates are of a totally different breed then hackers or crackers. They are thief plain and simple. I agree that the current media distribution model/method is very outdated, that does not mean taking something that you did not pay for is not theft. Same goes for a individual that phishes you and you hand over you CC. They are a Phisher, they might be a hacker (no crime related to hacking) and most likely a cracker (cloning that CC# onto a existing card). The EFF will uphold the rights of the `net so long as the net HAS those rights. If your ISP changed its business model to one like that of the power or water companies (base bill of $19 for my commercial building, .0859/KwH) then you have to pay it or stop being there customer. Is your town like a lot of America with just 1 DSL and 1 Cable provider? Dialup is not even a option really as it would go purely by hourly use as it has been trying for years . Satellite? 3000ms latency will sure let you do VoIP and Gaming. Lets not forget they are already use based and drop your speeds to 28.8 up and down after you pass your allotment. Fixed terrestrial wireless is the only option that is cheap and fast enough to deploy. Fiber is nice but is going to be owned 99% by the larger Telco's. It is becoming easier and easier for companies to steal others intellectual property. I think that companies should get rights to there IP for 10 years then it becomes public domain. This would keep people thinking of new ideas and let the mass market production machine kick in with real products instead of fakes (this also means we have stiff penalties for those making fakes). Its like the EPA laws, a company can dump waste and save $5,000,000 and gets fined $25,000 for doing it! The companies who do this need to have 100% of there income removed, all debts paid and all management put out on the street with not a penny. Jeromie Reeves Evergreen Solutions wrote: I just wanted to chime in very quickly about the hacker mentality and ethic. In theory, hackers hack to make things better. Security, speed, effeciency, clock cycles, whatever. I just heard a story on NPR tonight about prius hackers who have doubled the effeciency of their Prius's by adding additional batteries and a plug-in. I'm digressing.. Red boxes, blue boxes, tron boxes...home cable descramblers...it's a rocky path. I used to use a red box while I was away at college to call my friends, still have about 6 of them, haha. When radio shack stopped selling tone dialers I bought all their remaining stock. I did it because I was poor, and stealing from the man seemed legitimate. The man had lots of money, and was so automated he couldn't tell the difference between a quarter and the tone I generated. We experimented with one of the boxes that prevents the line voltage from dropping when you pick up a call too, although our use was to prevent telemarketers from being able to hang up. I've recently done a lot of thinking about how FEW people do the thinking for SO MANY. From law makers to engineers, whatever. However, with people like the EFF (electronic frontier foundation) floating around, I don't believe that we're in true danger of losing our internet, per se. If anything, I see it becoming LESS centralized, and LESS controlled. The MPAA/RIAA are fighting a losing battle against a community that's consistently outpacing them in terms of privacy and anonymity. To a google search on Tor, I use it personally. The main point for me I guess is that the fattest pipes out there are NOT on american soil, and the technology is NOT american. I don't doubt anyone's desire to inflict greater control or profit margin on American internet access, I just don't see it happening any time soon. True privacy on the internet is a fallacy anyway, but not even Google will listen to the government telling it not to put satellite imagery of bases, etc, up free on googleearth. Pakistan and India are suingbut...who? It takes about 6 months for a pharmacy lab to learn to copy someone else's drug. It took 72 hours to break the DRM on iTunes. It took 24 hours to break the ultimately encrypted dvd encryption. It took 12 hours to break Arista's new CD protection scheme. It took 6 hours to break sony's illegal DRM. Fear not fellow subverts, the underground will keep us safe. Sort of. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http
Re: [Biofuel] The End of the Internet
Wireless can easily supply the same speeds as most of the DSL in service right now. It takes planning and the correct gear but it works very well. WISP's will be the future if/when this is implemented. We are luck as Google was ABC's first target and they said go to H#LL! to SBC. In the end this wont last long as people run away from the ILEC's to anyone who is offering a less restricted pipe. WISPs will force ILECs to rethink this just as VoIP made them offer flat rate calling, this is just the strike back. Jeromie Reeves I own a WISP so my view is tainted Joe Street wrote: Ok so we go wireless. The original idea for internet protocol came from packet radio which was an amateur radio thing. Granted the bandwidth was not to be compared but I can easily set up an ad hock net over several kilometers using a standard wireless adapter and a high gain antenna which is nothing more than a tin can pressed into service as a coaxial to waveguide transition feeding into the feedpoint on a surplus primestar satelite tv dish giving plenty of gain for a line of sight link over a fairly long haul with no amplifiers or anything other than what is on the card. A server centrally located and operating on an omidirectional antenna can serve many subscribers within a line of sight path using this scheme. Repeaters can be added to expand the network. Where there is a will there is a way. See here http://www.wwc.edu/~frohro/Airport/Primestar/Primestar.html other useful network info here http://epanorama.net/links/tele_lan.html Joe Michael Redler wrote: Keith, So, it seems as though the federal government (a.k.a. corporate America) is threatened by the Second Superpower and is making preparations for war. Mike */Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: http://www.alternet.org/mediaculture/31753/ The End of the Internet By Jeffrey Chester, The Nation. Posted February 6, 2006. America's big phone and cable companies want to start charging exorbitant user fees for the supposedly-free internet. The nation's largest telephone and cable companies are crafting an alarming set of strategies that would transform the free, open and nondiscriminatory Internet of today to a privately run and branded service that would charge a fee for virtually everything we do online. Verizon, Comcast, Bell South and other communications giants are developing strategies that would track and store information on our every move in cyberspace in a vast data-collection and marketing system, the scope of which could rival the National Security Agency. According to white papers now being circulated in the cable, telephone and telecommunications industries, those with the deepest pockets -- corporations, special-interest groups and major advertisers -- would get preferred treatment. Content from these providers would have first priority on our computer and television screens, while information seen as undesirable, such as peer-to-peer communications, could be relegated to a slow lane or simply shut out. Under the plans they are considering, all of us -- from content providers to individual users -- would pay more to surf online, stream videos or even send e-mail. Industry planners are mulling new subscription plans that would further limit the online experience, establishing platinum, gold and silver levels of Internet access that would set limits on the number of downloads, media streams or even e-mail messages that could be sent or received. To make this pay-to-play vision a reality, phone and cable lobbyists are now engaged in a political campaign to further weaken the nation's communications policy laws. They want the federal government to permit them to operate Internet and other digital communications services as private networks, free of policy safeguards or governmental oversight. Indeed, both the Congress and the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) are considering proposals that will have far-reaching impact on the Internet's future. Ten years after passage of the ill-advised Telecommunications Act of 1996, telephone and cable companies are using the same political snake oil to convince compromised or clueless lawmakers to subvert the Internet into a turbo-charged digital retail machine. The telephone industry has been somewhat more candid than the cable industry about its strategy for the Internet's future. Senior phone executives have publicly discussed plans to begin imposing a new scheme for the delivery of Internet content, especially from major Internet content companies. As Ed Whitacre, chairman and CEO of ATT, told Business Week in November, Why should they be allowed to use my pipes? The Internet can't be free in that sense, because
Re: [Biofuel] Sudden Infant Death Syndrome
That is insteresting to know. Another item to put on the pile for research. Jeromie Marylynn Schmidt wrote: I have nothing in writing to back this up .. it's just something that was told me by my chiropractor sometimes in the early 80's. What I was told is that there is one consistent factor in all Sudden Infant Death and that is each and every one was delivered at birth by a medical doctor using forceps. Apparently, according my chiropractor, the baby turns in the birth cannel on it's own .. but the medical doctor will sometimes grip the baby's head and begin the turn as he pulls the baby out. This is to speed up the delivery. This can sometimes cause a rupture in the infants neck .. There are charts available that will show which nerve and which blood vessel originates off of which vertebra .. if the rupture were to occur in an area that effected the some vital organ or vital function and the rupture was severe enough then the baby would ultimately die. My guess is that with more and more mothers electing a more natural childbirth and with fathers frequently assisting in the birthing room, the use of forceps would not come into play .. but I do know that forceps are still used by many doctors to hurry up the process. .. I have several friends who are assisting nurses. Mary Lynn Mary Lynn Schmidt ONE SPIRIT ONE HEART TTouch . Animal Behavior Modification . Behavior Problems . Ordained Minister . Pet Loss Grief Counseling . Radionics . Dowsing . Nutrition . Homeopathy . Herbs. . Polarity . Reiki . Spiritual Travel The Animal Connection Healing Modalities http://members.tripod.com/~MLSchmidt/ From: bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Sudden Infant Death Syndrome Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 21:47:57 -0600 This an interesting hypothesis, but it brings to mind a question and a comment what were infants dying of prior to the initiation of the use of flame retardants? Crib deaths are reported in medical literature from early in the nineteenth century, and anecdotally much earlier still- at least this suggests multiple causes. This should be a no brainer to resolve. Arsenic and Antimony could easily be detected in post mortem tissue. It seems strange that nobody has reported any autopsy data, showing elevated levels of the metals. For that matter has anybody done simple collection of samples from the air above or around the mattresses and shown the presence of the toxic gases? personally, I am skeptical as usual. show me data, not speculation, and I will be convinced- it's as simple as that. toodles Jeromie Reeves wrote: I am too. I have been trying to track down exactly what is uesd in my new matress. My wife is 22 weeks pregnat (our 2nd) so I am ever more concerned. One link had some interesting info. http://www.checnet.org/healthehouse/education/articles-detail.asp?Main_ID=359 Jeromie Joe Street wrote: Very curious! Phosphorus, Antimony and Arsenic are dopants commonly used in the semiconductor industry and are extremely toxic when they combine with hydrogen to form hydrides. Arsine (the hydride of arsenic) is toxic at a level of 50 parts per billion. That's about the range of sensitivity of the human nose to smell anything. What compounds would be used in a mattress though? Bizzare! Joe Jeromie Reeves wrote: Snip Toxic Gases in Mattresses Dr. Jim Sprott, OBE, a New Zealand scientist and chemist, states with certainty that crib death is caused by toxic gases, which can be generated from a baby's mattress. Chemical compounds containing phosphorus, arsenic and antimony have been added to mattresses as fire retardants and for other purposes since the early 1950's. A fungus that commonly grows in bedding can interact with these chemicals to create poisonous gases (Richardson 1994). ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves - Richard Feynman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel
Re: [Biofuel] Sudden Infant Death Syndrome
That is not entirely a old wives tale. In 80/81 my little brother would have issues when our cat would get into his crib to try and drink his bottle. While it never killed him he did get upset. I can see how a child who is alergic, or if the cat is large, could possibly hurt a infant. Jeromie Greg and April wrote: Let's not forget of the old wives tale of cat's laying on infants, smothering them. Greg H. - Original Message - From: bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 20:47 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Sudden Infant Death Syndrome This an interesting hypothesis, but it brings to mind a question and a comment what were infants dying of prior to the initiation of the use of flame retardants? Crib deaths are reported in medical literature from early in the nineteenth century, and anecdotally much earlier still- at least this suggests multiple causes. This should be a no brainer to resolve. Arsenic and Antimony could easily be detected in post mortem tissue. It seems strange that nobody has reported any autopsy data, showing elevated levels of the metals. For that matter has anybody done simple collection of samples from the air above or around the mattresses and shown the presence of the toxic gases? personally, I am skeptical as usual. show me data, not speculation, and I will be convinced- it's as simple as that. toodles ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Sudden Infant Death Syndrome
My male (Itchy) would do that till he figured out the top of a CRT was warmer (and moved less). The female (Squeek) figured it was better to get under with us. We just got rid of her becsue she was becoming unstable with Liam (my 2.5yo son). She is a little old lady kind of cat and not really suited for children. We will not be getting more pets for some time (aside the random mouse that thinks its safe in the nice warm building =-) Jeromie Zeke Yewdall wrote: When it's cold, my cat will come and lay right on my face (the only thing sticking out from under the blankets). I can certainly see how this could hinder breathing. On 1/24/06, * [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not at all. About 1948 or 9 my mother used to put my middle sister out in her baby carriage (with the hood up) in view of the kitchen window to get fresh air. She found that the neighbours' cat liked to get into the carriage and lie on my sister's face. If I recall rightly this was in cool weather. Doug Woodard St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada On Tue, 24 Jan 2006, Jeromie Reeves wrote: That is not entirely a old wives tale. In 80/81 my little brother would have issues when our cat would get into his crib to try and drink his bottle. While it never killed him he did get upset. I can see how a child who is alergic, or if the cat is large, could possibly hurt a infant. Jeromie Greg and April wrote: Let's not forget of the old wives tale of cat's laying on infants, smothering them. Greg H. [snip] ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Sudden Infant Death Syndrome
I am too. I have been trying to track down exactly what is uesd in my new matress. My wife is 22 weeks pregnat (our 2nd) so I am ever more concerned. One link had some interesting info. http://www.checnet.org/healthehouse/education/articles-detail.asp?Main_ID=359 Jeromie Joe Street wrote: Very curious! Phosphorus, Antimony and Arsenic are dopants commonly used in the semiconductor industry and are extremely toxic when they combine with hydrogen to form hydrides. Arsine (the hydride of arsenic) is toxic at a level of 50 parts per billion. That's about the range of sensitivity of the human nose to smell anything. What compounds would be used in a mattress though? Bizzare! Joe Jeromie Reeves wrote: Snip Toxic Gases in Mattresses Dr. Jim Sprott, OBE, a New Zealand scientist and chemist, states with certainty that crib death is caused by toxic gases, which can be generated from a baby's mattress. Chemical compounds containing phosphorus, arsenic and antimony have been added to mattresses as fire retardants and for other purposes since the early 1950's. A fungus that commonly grows in bedding can interact with these chemicals to create poisonous gases (Richardson 1994). ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Sudden Infant Death Syndrome
Exactly! I am looking for information, hoping that possibly some people here might have it. Google has found alot of articles but so far they do not contain anything I consider hard proof. I will keep looking and hope to find something one way or the other. Jeromie bob allen wrote: This an interesting hypothesis, but it brings to mind a question and a comment what were infants dying of prior to the initiation of the use of flame retardants? Crib deaths are reported in medical literature from early in the nineteenth century, and anecdotally much earlier still- at least this suggests multiple causes. This should be a no brainer to resolve. Arsenic and Antimony could easily be detected in post mortem tissue. It seems strange that nobody has reported any autopsy data, showing elevated levels of the metals. For that matter has anybody done simple collection of samples from the air above or around the mattresses and shown the presence of the toxic gases? personally, I am skeptical as usual. show me data, not speculation, and I will be convinced- it's as simple as that. toodles Jeromie Reeves wrote: I am too. I have been trying to track down exactly what is uesd in my new matress. My wife is 22 weeks pregnat (our 2nd) so I am ever more concerned. One link had some interesting info. http://www.checnet.org/healthehouse/education/articles-detail.asp?Main_ID=359 Jeromie Joe Street wrote: Very curious! Phosphorus, Antimony and Arsenic are dopants commonly used in the semiconductor industry and are extremely toxic when they combine with hydrogen to form hydrides. Arsine (the hydride of arsenic) is toxic at a level of 50 parts per billion. That's about the range of sensitivity of the human nose to smell anything. What compounds would be used in a mattress though? Bizzare! Joe Jeromie Reeves wrote: Snip Toxic Gases in Mattresses Dr. Jim Sprott, OBE, a New Zealand scientist and chemist, states with certainty that crib death is caused by toxic gases, which can be generated from a baby's mattress. Chemical compounds containing phosphorus, arsenic and antimony have been added to mattresses as fire retardants and for other purposes since the early 1950's. A fungus that commonly grows in bedding can interact with these chemicals to create poisonous gases (Richardson 1994). ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Sudden Infant Death Syndrome
Scary if true. How can we pressure for more testing or a study of this? http://www.healthychild.com/cribdeathcause.htm Has The Cause of Crib Death (SIDS) Been Found? Parents Denied Crucial Findings By Jane Sheppard Sudden Infant Death Syndrome. These four words can incite a considerable amount of terror in a parent of an infant. Sudden infant death syndrome (SIDS), also known as crib or cot death, is the number one cause of death for infants from one month to one year of age. 90% of all SIDS deaths are in babies under six months old. Ongoing SIDS research occasionally leads to discoveries of risk factors associated with these deaths, but after almost 50 years, researchers say they still do not know how or why it happens. The prevailing official viewpoint on SIDS is that the cause is unknown (SIDS Alliance 2001). It may seem inconceivable that over a million babies have died of this syndrome, and after almost half a century and many millions of dollars spent, no one in this age of science and technology can tell us why. But what parents are virtually oblivious to (through no fault of their own) is that a highly convincing explanation for this tragedy has been found, along with a simple means of eliminating it. This explanation is backed by a significant amount of evidence, but has been and continues to be completely ignored by SIDS organizations, the medical community, and the government - for a variety of reasons, including politics, financial liability, and vested interests. Publication of these findings continues to be denied and suppressed. The result is that babies continue to be at risk from deaths that may easily be prevented. Toxic Gases in Mattresses Dr. Jim Sprott, OBE, a New Zealand scientist and chemist, states with certainty that crib death is caused by toxic gases, which can be generated from a baby's mattress. Chemical compounds containing phosphorus, arsenic and antimony have been added to mattresses as fire retardants and for other purposes since the early 1950's. A fungus that commonly grows in bedding can interact with these chemicals to create poisonous gases (Richardson 1994). These heavier-than-air gases are concentrated in a thin layer on the baby's mattress or are diffused away and dissipated into the surrounding atmosphere. If a baby breathes or absorbs a lethal dose of the gases, the central nervous system shuts down, stopping breathing and then heart function. These gases can fatally poison a baby, without waking the sleeping baby and without any struggle by the baby. A normal autopsy would not reveal any sign that the baby was poisoned (Sprott 1996). In spite of denial and opposition from orthodox SIDS organizations, no research has disproved this gaseous poisoning explanation for crib death. No valid criticism of this explanation has ever been provided. This logical finding explains every factor already known about crib death, and is backed by scientific research (Sprott 1996, 2000) and eight years of practical proof consisting of a crib death prevention campaign that continues in New Zealand. Ongoing research continues to support these findings. A four and a half year study by the Scottish Cot Death Trust published in the British Medical Journal (November 2, 2002) has shown that the re-use of infant mattresses triples the risk of cot death (Tappin 2002). Dr. Sprott explains that the risk of death increases when mattresses are re-used from one baby to the next because the fungus has already had a chance to establish itself in the used mattress. When the next baby uses the same mattress, the fungus is soon active. Toxic gas production begins sooner and is generated in greater volume. It is known that crib death rates increase markedly from the first baby in a family to the second, and from the second to the third, and so on (Mitchell 2001). Dr. Sprott warns, however, that new mattresses can also be unsafe because fungal growth can quickly become established in a new mattress once a baby begins sleeping on it (Sprott 2003). The fundamental solution is urgent action to eliminate all sources of phosphorus, arsenic and antimony from all mattresses. But this is not happening now, and is not likely to happen anytime soon, so exposure to these gases must be prevented. The intervening solution is to prevent babies from being exposed to the gases by wrapping mattresses in a gas-impermeable cover made from high-grade polyethylene and ensuring that bedding used on top of a wrapped mattress does not contain any phosphorus, arsenic or antimony. A 100% successful crib death prevention campaign has been going on in New Zealand for the past eight years. Midwives and other healthcare professionals throughout New Zealand have been actively advising parents to wrap mattresses. During this time, there has not been a single SIDS death reported among the over 100,000 New Zealand babies who have slept on mattresses wrapped in a
Re: [Biofuel] Dewatering with vacuum.
inline David Miller wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Back to Science class! Vacuum- I have worked very little with vacuum. While in the Navy, I was learning OJT a little about refrigeration. At that time I was taught inches of Hg. and 30Hg is the max but extremely hard or impossible to achieve. One of the problems is that inches of vacuum is measured relative to the atmosphere, and thus depends on atmospheric pressure. The atmospheric pressure is often well below 30 and so a 30 vacuum is often impossible to obtain. 5 deg. C = 6.5mm Hg .25Hg 55 deg. C = appr. 110 mm Hg4.33Hg If H2O is 18 and Hg is 200.59, Hg is 11.14 time heavier .25 Hg = 2.785 water 4.33 Hg = 48.24 water Those sound about right. An atmosphere is ~30 mercury and ~30 feet of water. Where does micron come in? When you get to the kind of scientific pump that Joe Street has you can start measuring things in microns. One mm Hg is the pressure that a layer of mercury a single millimeter high produces. In high vacuum applications you'll see this referred to as a torr. A micron is 1/1000 of a mm. A torr is also about 1.3 mBar where a Bar = a standard atmosphere. Dave Miller spoke of an old scientific pump you had that went to 002mm Hg. Scientific pump suggests to a very good pump, but .002 sounds like very little vacuum. (unless zero is not the same place). He also mentioned I should look for a 50? I am sure this will become quite clear, but now, it's not sinking in. you in this case being Joe Street. I forget who made his pump, but those kinds of pumps are usually rated below a micron and actually deliver something more like 5 - 10 micron. Yes, they actually pump down to about 5 millionths of an atmosphere, and are commonly used for things like evacuating the glass tubes when making neon signs. No, you don't need anywhere near this level of vacuum for dewatering BD. I chipped in because I know something about vacuums and wanted to try to help:) FWIW, a micron or so is only considered a medium vacuum for scientific purposes. Other kinds of vacuum pumps start here (10 ^ -3 torr) and go down by a factor of at least another million (10 ^ -9 torr). Supercollidors and such pull a huge ring down to 10 ^ -10 torr. And the vacuum of space is still far emptier than this. I'm not sure what you're referring to in I should look for a 50. I'd suggest looking for a dry pump that doesn't require oil lubrication. These are commonly used for refridgeration or freeze drying of food, should go to the required vacuum levels, and should last a long time. Scientific pumps generally don't like that kind of water vapor. Would a home grade vacuum sealer (for food bag + jars) be sufficient? I have seen many older units at yard sales (wife wont let me get near her new one that does bottles/jars!) The key to the operation is to have the fuel hot and a cool place for it to condense. You don't have to pump all the water vapor out, just create the conditions where the water will boil out of the fuel and condense in the condensor. That means a vacuum of 25 - 27 inches. That sounds easy enough with a few pipes and some peltiers. How cold does the surface need to be for condensing water in a 25~27 inch vacuum? What about boiling temp? I know boiling temp goes down as the atmospheric pressure goes down but I do not know scale. Is there a online chart showing this? What kind of vessel would be needed for a 25~27 inch vacuum (and so I am sure, that is a negative PSI rating yes?) HTH, --- David Thanks John - Original Message - *From:* Joe Street mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org *Sent:* Wednesday, January 11, 2006 2:00 PM *Subject:* Re: [Biofuel] Dewatering with vacuum. David Miller wrote: Snip Somebody had the vapor pressure tables for water earlier in this thread, maybe he could look up the pressure for 55 and 5 degrees C. --- David 5 deg. C = 6.5mm Hg 55 deg. C = appr. 110 mm Hg It means that water does not have to be removed from the trap (as was stated ) since water at 5 deg.C has a vapour pressure low enogh as not to interfere with drying the fuel. It will never be perfectly dry and even if you could, it would adsorb water from the air when you take it out of the vacuum chamber. In practical terms just run cold water through your condenser and when the vacuum in the reactor gets to 27 Hg or better you are done! I do it all the time. It works well. I reheat the reactor during washing and after draining the last wash the vacuum is started. An hour later the fuel is dry, crystal clear and ready to use. Joe ___ Biofuel mailing list
Re: [Biofuel] Dewatering with vacuum.
I would like to have that. Been looking and have not found one like im thinking (course my thinking could be off =) Jeromie MALCOLM MACLURE wrote: I have extensive vapour pressure tables prepared by the Smithsonion Institution, if it's any use to someone. If anyone would like a scan I will e-mail it to you. It should print out ok on a standard laser or a good inkjet. Regards Malcolm -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Miller Sent: 18 January 2006 17:41 To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Dewatering with vacuum. Jeromie Reeves wrote: inline David Miller wrote: [snip] I'm not sure what you're referring to in I should look for a 50. I'd suggest looking for a dry pump that doesn't require oil lubrication. These are commonly used for refridgeration or freeze drying of food, should go to the required vacuum levels, and should last a long time. Scientific pumps generally don't like that kind of water vapor. Would a home grade vacuum sealer (for food bag + jars) be sufficient? I have seen many older units at yard sales (wife wont let me get near her new one that does bottles/jars!) Interesting idea, but I doubt it. It might work for the 1 gallon test batches, but I'm not sure I can see it working on a 50 gallon batch. I don't know what they have for vacuum pumps in them, but I doubt they're made to run that long. It wouldn't cost that much to try one though. The key to the operation is to have the fuel hot and a cool place for it to condense. You don't have to pump all the water vapor out, just create the conditions where the water will boil out of the fuel and condense in the condensor. That means a vacuum of 25 - 27 inches. That sounds easy enough with a few pipes and some peltiers. How cold does the surface need to be for condensing water in a 25~27 inch vacuum? What about boiling temp? I know boiling temp goes down as the atmospheric pressure goes down but I do not know scale. Is there a online chart showing this? What kind of vessel would be needed for a 25~27 inch vacuum (and so I am sure, that is a negative PSI rating yes?) These numbers have been posted a bunch of times now. 5 deg. C = 6.5mm Hg 55 deg. C = appr. 110 mm Hg As Joe Street said several times on this thread if you keep the fuel hot (55C) and have a room temperature condensor (5-10C) you can just run the vacuum pump until you get to 27 or so and you're done. Water can be drained out the condensor afterward. These aren't the only numbers that will work, but they give you an idea. You can do it at atmospheric pressure if you raise the temperature enough, or reduce the temp of the fuel by decreasing the pressure. You have to look up vapor pressures of water at different temperatures if you want to rigorously engineer something, but these look like good rules-of-thumb. --- David ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] oil seed expellers help please
I live out in NE Oregon, What are you after exactly? There are a number of equipment supliers out here. Jeromie Kirk McLoren wrote: I was asked where one could buy the hardware for a couple of hundred acres of oil crop in Northeastern Oregon. Any help is appreciated Kirk http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylc=X3oDMTFqODRtdXQ4BF9TAzMyOTc1MDIEX3MDOTY2ODgxNjkEcG9zAzEEc2VjA21haWwtZm9vdGVyBHNsawNmYw--/SIG=110oav78o/**http%3a//farechase.yahoo.com/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] A new website
My win2k box runs Firefox with 100+ at times with little issue aside Firefox's memory leak. Windows (any ver) used by someone who has little to no clue how to secure it and make it purr along will result in what we have: Massive network issues from worms, Fraud, and Theft. I personally welcome id10t users as i am a tech and I make the bulk of my money from said users. I also offer classes on how to use a pc and keep your self clean. Even the minor of steps goes a very long way for windows security and safety. I use Debian as my poison of choice for workstations and fBSD for servers or high load boxes. Just my $0.02, inflation has devalued to $0.005 Doug Foskey wrote: But you must agree that it is moving from a boat that leaks like a sieve to a boat that needs an occasional bale?? I find now I get extremely frustrated at work where I must use the M$ systems: because I cannot multi task as easily as on my home system. (And I have occasionally had over 60 web pages open at once in Linux - try that on the other system!) regards Doug On Wednesday 26 October 2005 10:16, Rafal Szczesniak wrote: On Wed, Oct 26, 2005 at 04:54:01PM +1000, Doug Foskey wrote: Good reason to go Linux. It doesn't really matter. If one of your addresses is publicly available (either on a website or mailing list archives) it will be abused this way sooner or later. I use Linux and FreeBSD all the time and it happened to me too (several times). Naturally, using Windows mail readers exposes you more due to impact the mail worms and viruses have on internet these days, but just using Linux is not an ultimate solution. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] A new website
Have you tried Wine? What about VMWare and windows? Ive found that VMware helps a bunch when the client OS likes to crash alot. The base system will remain stable. I assume you never found a OSS verison of the software your needing, or that it doesnt interoperate with what others are using? Zeke Yewdall wrote: Unfortunately, there are too many specialized engineering software packages that I use every day that can only operate under windows (often they are even picky about the version of windows) for me to consider Linux. If it was just web browsing, spreadsheets, word processing, and the like, I'd get rid of windows in a heartbeat. I've already dumped IE and outlook. I want Google or Mozilla to come out with an operating system. On 10/26/05, Doug Foskey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But you must agree that it is moving from a boat that leaks like a sieve to a boat that needs an occasional bale?? I find now I get extremely frustrated at work where I must use the M$ systems: because I cannot multi task as easily as on my home system. (And I have occasionally had over 60 web pages open at once in Linux - try that on the other system!) regards Doug On Wednesday 26 October 2005 10:16, Rafal Szczesniak wrote: On Wed, Oct 26, 2005 at 04:54:01PM +1000, Doug Foskey wrote: Good reason to go Linux. It doesn't really matter. If one of your addresses is publicly available (either on a website or mailing list archives) it will be abused this way sooner or later. I use Linux and FreeBSD all the time and it happened to me too (several times). Naturally, using Windows mail readers exposes you more due to impact the mail worms and viruses have on internet these days, but just using Linux is not an ultimate solution. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] A new website
snip If it was just web browsing, spreadsheets, word processing, and the like, I'd get rid of windows in a heartbeat. I've already dumped IE and outlook. Indeed. You can already switch to safer and open replacements of web browser and mail reader as well as office suite (especially with just-released OpenOffice 2.0). Isn't it great ? There's a choice finally for average user. This choice exists on Windows to. The core windows OS can be very stable (just needs configured correctly, not hard just takes more then a average Joe). I personally use OO 2.0, Firefox, and Thunderbird (as does my wife) over IE except in those very rare cases where a site is IE only. Avast is hands down the best Windows based AV there is and it is free (for home use) too. I want Google or Mozilla to come out with an operating system. No need to. Just wait for unix desktop environments to become mature enough to be widely usable. Define mature enough? I think its more the add on software that needs to mature more then the OS and GUI environment. One of the issues I find with OSS is there are to many options. Since there is not this one app for all monolithic force in OSS, how do you get people to try something new, even if it would work very well for them? The Linux Live CD's help alot. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Propane heater
I have a propane heater that every 6 weeks or so becomes clogged. The substance looks like 10 weight oil. I would love to turn this unit over to a SVO burner of some type but have not seen anything suitable for a camp trailer. Any ideas on what this stuff is and if there is a heating unit that will run S/WVO safely for heating?? Jeromie ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Multi Fuel Engines
How about a rotary engine that doest take those delicate graphite seals? Long story short I had one via my lil brother that only had 1 working cell and still put out enough HP to go 85mph. Jeromie Kurt Nolte wrote: You know, reading that and several other concepts and proven designs has put an idea into my head. I was doing some library research earlier today, and stumbled across the Deltic opposed piston engines. I looked into those, and was just utterly floored. Like, whoa. is what the guy sitting beside me in the library told me I said. Those things rocked in some serious ways, with only a really complicated crankshaft balancing system keeping them from being really workable on a widespread basis. Ideas immediately started pouring through my head on how to revive the OP engine design. Then I log on to check my e-mail, and see this. Like, whoa all over again. I read everything they have on their site. And the thought hits me. A cam-driven opposed cylinder engine. Cam at one end, cam at the other, 12 cylinders in a round block, 24 pistons riding the two cams. Utterly and completely removes the crankshaft synching issues inherent to the OP design. Low/No exhaust pulse, no valve rattle, no valve timing, drastic moving parts reduction, size reduction, no flywheel needed; with all the reciprocation operating in a front-back orientation, there wouldn't really be any piston pulse to deaden; the mass of the car would do it just fine. Smooth, even rotations, approximately 12 power strokes per revolution to even out the power application. Use small bore/long throw pistons in your cylinders and it would probably even be more incredibly efficient than an inline 3-cylinder. It would be perfect for that slow burn combustion of compression ignition engines. Perfect for diesel. Even more perfect for BD. I want to build it. I ineed/i to build this. And all I can think now is God I'm a geek :p -Kurt On 10/15/05, *Greg and April* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: *Prototype 42 hp Engine* * 6 inches dia. * 6 inches long * 42 hp at 7000 rpm * 40lbs. * Tested at NAVAIR PSEF Oct. 2003 http://www.regtech.com/18.html Greg H. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] SVO for Commercial Trucks?
What MPG/SVO do you get? Zeke Yewdall wrote: It's the same as for the cars -- only bigger. You can't get the kits, but all the stuff is just standard auto parts store stuff. We've converted a full sized school bus for about $500 in parts. I'd recommend reading the websites that talk about how to do it for cars, then once you understand the concepts, its pretty easy to build your own system for whatever sized engine you have. Zeke On 10/9/05, Derick Giorchino [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Look at Willy Nelsons web sight n alt fuel.im not sure if its only bio or svo. Good luck Derick -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of john giorgio Sent: Saturday, October 08, 2005 7:19 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] SVO for Commercial Trucks? I have a friend who is a trucker. I have looked into the systems that allow diesel cars to use SVO, but have not seen anything for a commercial truck sized diesel engine. Anyone know any helpful websites I can share with my friend? John __ Yahoo! Music Unlimited Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Quantifying the Price of Packaging/Sending the Message
Ken Dunn wrote: When talking to friends, family and others regarding the Earth-friendly practices that we can all include in our lifestyles, I always stumble over quantifying the true price of packaging for consumer goods. Its easy enough to calculate the transportation costs of an avacodo from California to Lancaster County, PA. Its also fairly straight forward to relay the burden on natural resources - the real price we pay. Adding it all up is also easily enough accomplished. But, how do you really calculate the expense of packaging materials? The company who produced that iten figured it in to there costs. The store who bought it then sold it to you figured the weight in there shipping costs. How much petroleum goes into one plastic bag? The company that made the bag knows. Call one and ask them how many units of X they get for Y stock. Of course, the plastic won't break down in any of our lifetimes yet, its not easy to determine the displacement of a resource when you don't know the inputs. For many (Americans anyway) Thats insulting. Americans are not the only wasteful people on the planet. Yes its hard to say but its easy to figure out. How much source material was used? How much X went into that? Ask the companies, they might tell you, they might not. I won't be here in a million years so, who cares?. Then again, there are always the ever increasing landfills to point to. NIMBY does have some power there yet, that approach is only a scare tactic to be exploited and I have no time for that. Mmmm,, yes who does care? What portion of a tree is consumed to create a cardboard box that is used just long enough for the DVD player (I almost said VCR :-) ) to make its way from the factory to the store and then the family room only to be mummified in the local dump? How much extra weight does the box add to the truck? How much extra fuel does the extra weight consume? Again track the product and its material. I once heard that paper products are better then 80% efficient. If that is true then 1lb of wood gives .8lb of paper product. What is the weight of your matrial? For a while I questioned whether paper really WAS any better than plastic. For a while I used plastic based on the premise that I could recycle the plastic. I've now decided that paper is better than plastic if only for the reason that the paper atleast comes from a natural resource that is sustainable (sort of). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wood_pulp Today, some people and groups are advocating using field crop fiber instead of wood fiber as being more sustaible. Paper and such fiber products are far better then plastics in many ways. This does not mean plastics do not have a home. But, is paper better than plastic? For making bathroom tissue it sure is! What if we returned to using plastic made from soy beans like ol' Henry's boys discovered? Would it still be better to use paper over plastic? See above. What if we did return to it? Is it cheaper to do? Is it a better product? If not, Why would any business do it? How much energy is consumed to produce all of these packaging materials? And how much more is consumed to dispose of them? For the production its easy, less then X dollars for a product that costs X dollars. There must be proffit along the way, no one is doing it for free. Rant as I may, how do we get the point across to the producers of goods that we want lass packaging? They already use as little packaging as they feel they safely can. Why? Cause more costs them more and they want ot spend as little as they can. Sorry but a VCR/DVD player NEEDS protective packaging. We can buy local all day long but, Sony doesn't have a factory near me. Even if they did, I'd still probably have to take the packaging with me. Yes you would. Whats so bad about that? Recycle if you want. Or not, that IS a option you have. I think we need better recycling laws. Dumps should be recycling centers each and every one. Only the absolute worst stuff should be tossed forever and even that should be solved.. Take care all, Ken ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Quantifying the Price of Packaging/Sending the Message
Hakan Falk wrote: It is the most wasteful people on the earth, by no comparison. 4+% of the world population, who uses 25% of the world resources. It is not a question of insult, it is the sad truth. To hide behind a hypocritical emotion about insult, instead of put an end to the unfair and irresponsible waste of resources. I know that you want to do something about it, otherwise you would not be on this list, but defending your fellow Americans? Hakan Ive heard this for some time. No one has yet been able to show me the study that says we use 25% of the world resources. Please show me where we use 25% of the water, land, air, crude, electricity, sunlight, tree's, twinkies, hamburgers, milk, rice, rubber, cotton, whiskey, children born (by day, month and year), minerals (all of them) and anything else I missed. I truely want to see a report on each one of these (and others). Jeormie ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Red Devil Lye
Keith Addison wrote: Hi Mike, Brian Depending on how much you want to make you can buy dry gas (methanol) - I get it for .69 at a dollar store How do you manage to cheat them out of 31 cents? One type of DriGas is methanol, another is isopropanol, make sure to get the methanol one. Maybe its one of the dollar or under stores. and Red Devil Lye at the hardware store. Brian Rodgers wrote: Would you say that Red Devil Lye is or was the best source of Potassium hydroxide? It's sodium hydroxide. AKA Caustic Soda. Any plumber can get it in large bags. I do not know if stores carry it as such. As It is way too early in the morning here in New Mexico and I have difficulties remembering which chemicals are which I looked up potassium hydroxide again. Maybe it will stick this time. The Columbia Encyclopedia, Sixth Edition. 2001-05. potassium hydroxide chemical compound with formula KOH. Pure potassium hydroxide forms white, deliquescent crystals. For commercial and laboratory use it is usually in the form of white pellets. A strong base, it dissolves readily in water, giving off much heat and forming a strongly alkaline, caustic solution (see acids and bases). It is commonly called caustic potash. It closely resembles sodium hydroxide in its chemical properties and has similar uses, e.g., in making soap, in bleaching, and in manufacturing chemicals, but is less widely used because of its higher cost. It is prepared chiefly by electrolysis of potassium chloride; commercial grades of it sometimes contain the chloride as well as other impurities. Traditionally made from wood ash (pot+ash). See: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_ashlye.html Lye from wood ash I still haven't tried it, I'll do it this winter when we have enough ash. Also, my son and his best friend work at the local university, I asked them what type of equipment they can get their hands on to test the purity of household chemicals. It is my understanding that methanol can also be found in general goods stores if one knows what to look for. In Canada it's called methyl hydrate and sold as stove fuel. BBQ lighter fluid has no ingredients listing on the side like it should, but I am sure I have read here that it is based on methanol, true or no? I asked the guys to look for a gas chromagraph at school. Can some of the laboratory types verify this would be a good piece of equipment for the younger generation to learn how to use? Massive overkill. I have the worst memory for new information so I have digested every message in this group as well as a few other sources in an attempt to memorise terms and processes. Unfortunately, as the old song or saying goes, I got a job, but it don't pay, thus my means and enthusiasm are constantly struggling for dominance. In other words I desperately need to find cheap or free equipment and chemicals 'and' I need to have alternate sources for as much of the needed stuff so I can better figure this all out while I am in the thinking about it stages of making my own biodiesel. It doesn't work well that way, or only up to a point. Best to just make a start, and as you progress I'm sure you'll find you'll change a lot of the plans you're making now. Start making some test batches, you can easily scrabble the makings for it together. Start here: Where do I start? http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#start Get some DriGas and Red Devil or equivalent, presume they're pure and fresh enough. If you don't get good results then you can investigate further and improve your sources of supply. Step by step. Blenders work, or rig one of these things: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor7.html Test-batch mini-processor Best wishes Keith Please any help which you lab techies can give us about analysing chemicals will be greatly appreciated. Sincerely, Brian Rodgers ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Ch 7 10PM News out of Boise
My wife came home from work today talking about Channel 7 news out of Boise. It seams they had a segment with a person who installed a WVO processor in there pick-up (at a cost of 3000$ USD) and got 300 MPG. They still needed to start the vehicle on dino. Can anyone shed some light on this as a Google search came back with less then nothing. I find it very hard to believe this is true (tho that never stopped the news before). Jeromie ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Ch 7 10PM News out of Boise
John Hayes wrote: Jeromie Reeves wrote: My wife came home from work today talking about Channel 7 news out of Boise. It seams they had a segment with a person who installed a WVO processor in there pick-up (at a cost of 3000$ USD) and got 300 MPG. They still needed to start the vehicle on dino. Can anyone shed some light on this as a Google search came back with less then nothing. I find it very hard to believe this is true (tho that never stopped the news before). I suspect it was a simple misunderstanding on the part of the reporter or your wife's coworkers due to the habit of some WVO or BD users to talk about miles per petrogallon. If I start up on 1/4 gallon of petroleum based diesel and then switch over to WVO and drive 75 miles, I've traveled 300 miles per petrogallon. Of course, if the listener is unfamiliar with this sort of logic, they merely hear 300 mpg and miss the distinction. For example, over my last 10 tanks, I've driven 7270 miles on 111.6 gallons of petrodiesel and 49.8 gallons of biodiesel. This works out to 45.1 mpg but 65.14 miles/petrogallon. Is this misleading? I think I all depends on your audience. But personally, I'd err on the side of caution because the alternative fuels movement doesn't benefit when people feel misled or cheated, even when the error is their own. jh RE: jh I am fairly sure something was misreported. I have not seen any in vehicle WVO processors so that alone had me curious and ify on the validity of the story (Not to say such doesnt exist, just havent seen one yet). 300 mpg has me very ify on the validity of the story and I assumed something was amiss. Having not heard the news cast myself that explination sounds like what likely happened. What do you drive that gets 45mpg? Are you running a 2 to 1 mix of BD/Petro, was that for starting, or both? Its misleading for sure. RE: other replies Hey thanks for making me feel right at home. Its not like im looking to get the truth about the reported story or get the truth to the reported so they can possibly correct there mistake. Naaa no one can bother to make sure they get a real story from www.ktvb.com cause its obvious you like the misleading and flat out wrong information that exists far to often. Keep up the good work. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Ch 7 10PM News out of Boise
John Hayes wrote: Jeromie Reeves wrote: What do you drive that gets 45mpg? Are you running a 2 to 1 mix of BD/Petro, was that for starting, or both? I drive a stock 2003 Jetta TDI 5-sp. I typically put in B100 homebrew and then top off at with commercial petrodiesel, either immediately or sometimes a couple of days later. The Jetta's recirculating pump takes care of any mixing right in the main fuel tank. No preblanding required. Here's my last 10 fills: BD Petro 7.511.533 6.011.367 0 16.003 6.010.462 10.5 5.864 0 15.280 5.09.554 4.910.087 0 14.200 9.97.290 You can clearly see that the ratio is not at all consistent. In reality, it is even more variable than that because I may not dilute the B100 with petrodiesel until a couple of days later, meaning the engine may be running on a very high or very low BD blend at any given moment. jh It seams that there are a fair number of Jetta drivers on the list. Wish I could afford to buy one. My Escort get 29~35mpg on gasoline. For now I am looking to get a diesel pickup or wagon and setup a processor. This is what my intrest in the processor that was mentioned in the news story is about (and yes ignoring the fantasic mpg claims). It looks like you run on average more petro then bd. Any reason for this? How many miles have you put on the car, how many with a bd mix? I have heard that bd tends to carbonize in the injectors. Jeromie ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Katrina slams New Orleans. Violence mayhem....
Its really simple. Americans are sheltered, you know this kinda thing doesnt happen to me. How can you expect such a people to respond? As for gun control, the less of it the better. Jeromie Doug Foskey wrote: I am really sorry that New Orleans had to go through the devastation of Katrina. However I have to compare how the people of Asia handled the ravages of the Tsunami compared to the anarchy of the population of New Orleans. One picture I carry from New Orleans is of the violence shootings. I think it is time that the Americans gained some common sense, got control of the gun situation. I am amazed at the stoicism of the Asians in the aftermath of the Tsunami, and the comparison in my eyes to the current events leaves me horrified. regards Doug ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Didn't someone ask about..
Interesting product, lacking details of its use though. It still does not make hydrogen production easier. That is where the primary inefficiency is at. I have my brother looking for a better method for producing hydrogen from water using electricity (he is a much better chemist then I). There are something like 1000 known process's for H2 production from water. Less then a dozen of them have been explored much. I would love to find a bacterial solution as that would have a better efficiency. Jeromie mphee wrote: Energy storage without using batteries. http://www.amminex.com/index_files/Page344.htm Use your wind turbine to generate electricity and the excess can be stored efficiently as hydrogen. Theory at least. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] BP loses money?? Yeah, right.
Mike Weaver wrote: And a double flat tax on inherited wealth! Or something. In the US it pays to have high prenatal intelligence. Pick rich parents. Why tax it as anything more thne income? Income is income. If you start with oh this shoudl be taxed like this and that should be taxed that way you will end up right back where we are. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: this is so off base it's not even funny. Please tell me what you feel is off base (and what base would this be, the topic?) i could go on at length about this, Please do. jeromie, but i think i can boil that message down, adn save a lot of bandwidth, Stop by irc.dal.net #computers I am Crackers`n`Soup and we can save some list bandwidth by agreeing with you on one point: you're right, definitely not a humble opinion. I will eat crow when it is called for. Tell then, I speak as I see it. I will not change my point of view unless something is presented to me for such a action. To date the only way that has happened is via communication. Jeromie -chris b. In a message dated 8/30/05 11:26:33 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Cross Posted: Fwd: [DIYGasTurbines] Re: I'd like to try something...but first, your opinions (please).
Manzo, Emil wrote: Hi Joe, for no (very few) moving parts you need a ram-jet. Or as some used to call a “scram jet”. A scramjet is for once you reach super sonic speeds and is designed slightly differently then a ramjet. Same mechanics of operation though. It is essentially a pipe with a venturi and a fuel injector. It needs to have air flowing through it before ignition, like if it was attached to a glider or vehicle. Once enough airspeed flows, the injector is activated and the fuel ignited producing thrust. I bet WVO would work for fuel J. Another one of my hair-brained dreams…. Regards, Emil -Original Message- *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Joe Street *Sent:* Wednesday, August 31, 2005 4:03 PM *To:* Biofuel@sustainablelists.org *Subject:* Re: [Biofuel] Cross Posted: Fwd: [DIYGasTurbines] Re: I'd like to try something...but first, your opinions (please). Yes but as for sustainability tell me how long do these things run for at 60 and 70,000RPM and how often do you have to repair them?? Joe Michael Redler wrote: You have to have deep pockets to play with those things. Not necessarily. I joined [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] a few weeks ago after learning that you can get everything you need from a junk yard. People are buying auto turbochargers and back feeding the compressor gasses to the exhaust turbine and adding some fuel and an igniter (spark plug). http://www.junkyardjet.com/ I'm just having trouble collecting data on efficiency for this technique. Mike */Joe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: Hi Emil; I should have said that is not my page. I haven't built a conventional type pulsejet. I just pulled the link from my bookmarks FYI. I am more interested in the coanda effect and the ferroelectric effect. The problem wih turbines is they are not very sustainable. You have to have deep pockets to play with those things. I want something with no moving parts. (other than phonons :-) ) Just wanted to let you know there are surplus turbines available out there. Good luck Joe Manzo, Emil wrote: Hi Joe. When you said Pulse-jet you reminded me of something I saw when I was a kid. It was a small jet turbine that bolted onto your car’s differential. It bolted in place of the rear differential cover and connected to your fuel and electrical system. As the car ran down the highway, the turbine came up to speed and you could flip a switch and inject fuel into it for a boost. Primitive but effective. I bet one of these would run well on biodiesel. Your pulse-jets are fabulous. At first I thought they were “scram-jets” but then saw the turbine. Cool. How much to they cost? -Original Message- *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Joe Street *Sent:* Wednesday, August 31, 2005 1:39 PM *To:* Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org *Subject:* Re: [Biofuel] Cross Posted: Fwd: [DIYGasTurbines] Re: I'd like to try something...but first, your opinions (please). This is not at all far fetched. Several people are bulding teir own turbines and other things like pulsejet engines etc. However you can get surplus APU's (auxiliary power units) at bargain prices if you look around. Check here: http://freespace.virgin.net/dyno.power/gasturbine/ Fun stuff! Pulse jets are not just for the military anymore! There is even a guy talking about building his own personal cruise missile. =-O Talk about civil disobedience! Joe Michael Redler wrote: I've been researching the feasibility of building a biofuel turbojet engine. Apparently, it's not as far fetched as one might think. I'm still unsure of thermal efficiency and if it's competitive with other cycles. In theory, it should be. Has anyone done similar research? Mike ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the
Re: [Biofuel] BP stations for sale
Bob Clark wrote: snip Well, then I guess we can expect to see BP putting all their gasoline stations up for sale. After all, the managers are required to maximize the returns for their shareholders. If the stations are losing money, they have to dump them. I won't be holding my breath. snip All the BP stations in Mercer County, PA have closed and are for sale. There are numerous BP stations still open for business across the Ohio line, less then ten miles away. It is possible that some company had a franchise to use the BP name and they went under. Here in Oregon we have a company that had 6 or so BP stations about 4 years ago. They bankrupted that division and changed them all to Chevrons. About 3 years before that they had some as Texaco's and the rest as there own name. It seams to be the way of things to change out your brand name every so often. In at least this case it was a tax thing to bankrupt the business every so often. What does that mean? I have no idea, just something that I observe in my daily travels. IT SURE DOESN'T MEAN I BELIEVE BP IS LOSING MONEY ON THEIR GAS!! In fact, I was kinda wondering if they are doing random closings like this around the country (and possibly world) and THAT is where they are stating a loss from -- property depreciation and NOT gas/oil sales??? That would fit with what I have seen with small local monopolistic fuel companies. Smalls ~5 town places where there is no or little options for 40+ miles. BP has been running ads lately about moving on to better fuel tech like hydrogen. WHAT A SCAM! Does anyone other then me realize that one of the first sources of hydrogen will be current oil companies? If you look at the oil refinement process you will see that hydrogen is about 15 steps past gasoline and doest take much more to produce. In some refineries many gas products (do not cconfuse gas with gasoline, they are not the same) are burned as waste! Jeromie Bob C. PeoplePC Online A better way to Internet http://www.peoplepc.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Alternative batteries
http://www.eere.energy.gov/hydrogenandfuelcells/fuelcells/basics.html ^ good overview and links http://www.fuelcelltoday.com/ ^ Much more information http://www.h2fuelcells.org/ ^ Place to buy fuel cells. Get ready to drop serious cash for anything that could run a home. My thoughts were to go with a classic monster battery system and use one of the lower wattage units to help keep the system charged when wind/solar are not available. http://www.fieldlines.com/ ^ Great DIY info for wind generators I have much more on this but it is currently a very unorganized mess of links. These are the sites I use most in finding more information. It would be nice to find a simple fuel cell design that could be built by the do-it-yourself group (if there is one, I have not found it). I have plans for a few electrolyzers. I am not sure how hard it would be to setup over all. A separator (electrolyzer, bio mass) could be easy enough. If your Eco-village has plenty of wind generators then more then likely there will be a surplus of electricity making a electrolyzer a good idea. Bio-mass hydrogen is (as far as I know) still very new and not ready for use. All other hydrogen production methods I know of make use of gases like methane. This makes it hard for reasonable long term production (unless you run or live by a pig farm). I do not know where your village is at but I suggest a thick walled stone building or a underground home if you are building a new home. I would also go with wind if the site is good for such. I have been building vertical axis wind turbines lately (small ones) and they impress me with there ability to generate torque and low wind speed operation. Jeromie Stephan van Wyk wrote: Hi Jeromie, Do your have more info on this, I love the idea. Maybe a good web link. Would a system like this be hard to set up? and materials / separator? The reason I ask is that my family and I will be moving to an eco-village next year. We are required to put in one alternative form of energy source and I'd like to study your idea and look at incorporating it into my design when building the house... Stephan van Wyk (South Africa) [taken from: Solar panals or wind] Why do you hate batteries? They are a needed device. I would rather have a hydrogen PEM fuel cell setup. Use wind to feed a water seperation tank then feed the H2/O2 to the hPEM. Only use the hPEM when power beyond the wind source is needed, or at locations remote from the wind fed grid. Jeromie ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Solar panals or wind
TarynToo wrote: Hi Jerome, I don't know about the energy conversion efficiencies of a wind-electric-H2/O2-hPEM-electric-load, but at first blush it seems to have too many stages to achieve reasonable efficiency. The idea is to use currently wasted extra electricity from a installed power generation site. Efficiency is not very important. The ability to store the waste in a way that is usable 24/7 is. I also assume there will come better methods of electrolyzing water and hPEM efficiency. Also this H2/O2 could be used to fuel a hydrogen car/generator and smaller unit fuel cells. hPEM electrolyzers are predicted to get as high as 94%. I know it might not ever reach such. according to Amory Lovins, apparently an H2 advocate, http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ msg50034.html the electric-H2/O2 conversion is up to 75% efficient. hPEM electrolyzers are predicted to get as high as 94%. I know it might not ever reach such. Assuming the same efficiency for the hPEM-electric conversion, the storage cycle would have about 57% efficiency. Battery conversion efficiency is very dependent on charge and discharge rates, and battery type, but the Iowa Energy Center claims that (lead acid?) batteries have 60-80% cycle efficiencies.http://www.energy.iastate.edu/renewable/wind/wem/wem -07_systems.html Of course you'd want to factor in the cost and life span of batteries vs hPEM. This is a tougher call since fuel cells are a quickly evolving technology. Its very hard to decide what is the best course of action. I feel that hydrogen production from what I consider to be lost or wasted electricity to be the best case. The hydrogen will be able to fuel much of the coming technology. From simple battery replacement cells in small portable devices to powering our cars, trucks and homes. I am willing to lose efficiency for a greener power generation/storage/use cycle. I think Garth and Kim's strategy, of modular, redundant conversion and storage systems would prove most useful in off-the-grid situations, since they're not striving for best efficiency, but highest reliability. That is my thoughts also. Wind, Solar, hPEM, Battery (lead acid gel cell). The main reason I like H2 systems fed by win generators is that most wind setups have extra power that currently goes to waste. Efficient use of that waste is not to important if its able to be stored in a long term fashion. You could have 1000's (or more) gallons of H2 stored up. On a related note, I'd once been a fan of fully decoupled hybrid car designs, using a motor/brake in each wheel hub, and no powertrain except the engine generator coupling. This is approximately how diesel-electric locomotives work, able to generate huge starting torque with their electrics. When I first saw the Honda hybrid designs, I thought it was silly to couple the drive electrics right to the engine. After studying the design further I realized how incredibly clever it really was, since it eliminated the duplication of heavy field windings and/or magnets in the generator and motors, partly offsetting the weight and complexity of transmission and transaxles. Furthermore, by retaining the coupling between engine and wheels, energy conversion losses were minimized. regen breaking is very key to a truly successful electric or hybrid. There is also a air car out there that interests me allot. Wish I could get my hands on one for my wife to use for work (our biggest use of gasoline) and for my running around (I do part time PC work) I still think that fully decoupled hybrids have a place, but perhaps more in heavily loaded city delivery trucks and the like, since they need torque more than horsepower and could gain a lot of space and design flexibility by eliminating the long heavy, drive train. Also, heavy slow vehicles gain more from electric recovery braking than fast light vehicles. That is very true. There is also plenty of room in a wheel for motors and plenty of wheels. I would love to see such a conversion done and see it in operation. Taryn ornae.com On Aug 30, 2005, at 5:12 PM, Jeromie Reeves wrote: Why do you hate batteries? They are a needed device. I would rather have a hydrogen PEM fuel cell setup. Use wind to feed a water seperation tank then feed the H2/O2 to the hPEM. Only use the hPEM when power beyond the wind source is needed, or at locations remote from the wind fed grid. Jeromie Garth Kim Travis wrote: Greetings, I hate batteries. That is why I want a system that I can power with methane if I need power when the sun is not shining. I use almost no power after the sun goes down, most of the year. We do not watch tv or other wasteful appetites for power, but, I do sometimes like to sew at night, so having the option of turning the power on, I like. Most people would be unhappy with a system that I can live with, I don't mind
Re: [Biofuel] Solar panals or wind
Garth Kim Travis wrote: Greetings, I hate batteries because they always die just when there is work to do. I do not want to depend on something that is going to have to be replaced just as it gets paid off and that I can't scrounge parts for. I don't believe that batteries are good for the environment either. I agree, they do make good interm solutions tho. If you use Gel-cell's and watch the cycle charge/discharge then they cna last a long time (IE dont drain them 100% every week, ect) Yes, some kind of storage is needed, but large battery banks just don't cut it. For the home tinkerer, I think methane storage is about the easiest I have come up with. That and biodiesel. That still produces waste gases. I look at them as interm solutions also. Is there a easy, clean way to make methane from a electical source like producing hydrogen? Hydrogen storage is simple and from the signs it will be useful in many things. Jeromie Bright Blessings, Kim At 04:12 PM 8/30/2005, you wrote: Why do you hate batteries? They are a needed device. I would rather have a hydrogen PEM fuel cell setup. Use wind to feed a water seperation tank then feed the H2/O2 to the hPEM. Only use the hPEM when power beyond the wind source is needed, or at locations remote from the wind fed grid. Jeromie ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Alternative batteries
Joe Street wrote: Jeromie Reeves wrote: If your Eco-village has plenty of wind generators then more then likely there will be a surplus of electricity making a electrolyzer a good idea. Why is this so? I think you are saying to use wind generated electricity to produce hydrogen and then use hydrogen to produce electricity?? I guess you will say the energy can be stored in the hydrogen but compressing hydrogen is a wee bit of a problem to say the least and in any case the compressor is horribly inneficient. Chemical batteries are not ideal but the whole energy cycle involves a lot less loss than what you are proposing. I am not worried about efficientcy because I am basing this off of wasted electricity from a wind turbine that has already filled its primary roll. I also assume that this is a setting where wind is plentiful enough to make building more generators worth while. Also I am more interested in a clean, easy storage system that can fill more then one roll. I have been building vertical axis wind turbines lately (small ones) and they impress me with there ability to generate torque and low wind speed operation. I am very interested in exploring what can be done by the home builder in this area. Do you have a web page or archive of information you can share on this? http://www.windstuffnow.com/main/darrieus_type.htm http://www.ecowindenergy.com/index.html http://www.solwind.co.nz/ Google for vwat, darrieus, or savonius for much more information. I made a small 4 arm 4ft one that worked very well for being built by me =) Jeromie Joe ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Religion, Politics Biofuels, and Illusion
:-( The browser history keeps the urls, why doesn't it keep the whole threads? Firefox (or any mozilia browser) + Slogger = Never lose a page and make your history fully searchable. It is very handy and I find the ability to take my bookmarks with me. Jeromie ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] BP loses money?? Yeah, right.
bob allen wrote: Howdy David, a flat tax would just reward the rich with lower taxes and punish the impoverished with taxes they didn't have before. See #2 The flat tax also will not address the flight of corporations to tax havens. flat tax- bad idea. Its a good idea. Yes it doesnt does it? Well simple to fix. You do business in the USA? you pay a flat tax on the money your company brings in Easy isnt it? So what if your based outside the USA? If anything for BEING based outside the borders you should pay MORE. Gives companies reason to base at least some part of them selves in the USA (and that should mean more jobs, or at least more job options). First thing we need to do is totaly clean slate the current setup and truely think of what we want to have. Then lets make it happen (we the people are the bosses, arent we? Votes mean something dont they? If not then give up, go home and cry cause we already lost that battle, pickup your guns as its time to have another revolution) David M. Brockes wrote: This is why we need a Flat Tax system in this country for both Individual and Business. 8% to 12% would provide a tax base much more robust than what we have todayand most of us would probably pay less, if most of us pay less, then somebody pays more. A 12% tax rate would mean tax break for the rich; hence, the poor would be paying more for the rich persons reduction. #2 I about fell off my couch when I read this. The poor wont be paying for the rich to have a tax break. Flat taxes would be fair, if I make $1, I pay XX%. Very simple. If I can figure out how to make $10 while you can only figure out how to make $1, why should I have to give more then XX% of it over then you? Cause your unable or unwilling to make more? Thats not right at all. A flat tax IS. Something that I have yet to see is lets solve the real tax issue. IMNSHO the real issue is the goverment waste of money, tax breeaks to large companies (normaly people who give donations to the right pockets) and other misguided efforts of people. If we were to truely reform taxes to a flat tax (a good thing) it would mean we HAVE reformed the goverment spending process (and a whole lot more) Jeromie Reeves but certainly everyone would pay a fair share.and think of all the savings there would be from all the extra costs currently related to our Tax system!! Just IMHO!! Dave -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 9:51 AM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] BP loses money?? Yeah, right. It's all part of the standard multinational corporation planning to move the profits to the jurisdiction in which they are taxed least (preferably not at all). cut ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Solar panals or wind
Why do you hate batteries? They are a needed device. I would rather have a hydrogen PEM fuel cell setup. Use wind to feed a water seperation tank then feed the H2/O2 to the hPEM. Only use the hPEM when power beyond the wind source is needed, or at locations remote from the wind fed grid. Jeromie Garth Kim Travis wrote: Greetings, I hate batteries. That is why I want a system that I can power with methane if I need power when the sun is not shining. I use almost no power after the sun goes down, most of the year. We do not watch tv or other wasteful appetites for power, but, I do sometimes like to sew at night, so having the option of turning the power on, I like. Most people would be unhappy with a system that I can live with, I don't mind a little inconvenience, it just reminds me how lucky I am to have power. Bright Blessings, Kim At 09:17 AM 8/30/2005, you wrote: Garth Kim Travis wrote: Greetings, I am a fan of using solar collectors to fire a stirling engine that can also be fired with methane. Small solar panels for stuff that is used primarily in the daytime, wind power that can be home repaired. And the generator that is fire by the stirling can be run off the pto of the tractor on biodiesel, or from a tire of the car. Lots of overlap and back up. If one part of the system malfunctions, the meat in the freezer does not thaw. I have yet to figure out how to put a 1/4 of a cow in there at a time.grin Bright Blessings, Kim A system I've been working on, and redesigning throughout the years is going more toward solar heat. A solar concentrator, (reads: recycled 10' diameter satellite dish covered with little squares of mirror salvaged from the glass shop's dumpster) and a Stirling engine are integral, the engine integrating the conversion from solar heat to electricity, but then the question arose, do I really want to be dependent on a system that stores its power in batteries? So the system has shifted to collecting heat, and storing that. Then, draw from that, the energy I need for electricity, and still have heat for water, or home space. And on a medium cloud cover, I can still focus infrared rays and collect heat. Solar panels tend to do less well with clouds. doug swanson -- All generalizations are false. Including this one. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * This email is constructed entirely with OpenSource Software. No Microsoft databits have been incorporated herein. All existing databits have been constructed from recycled databits. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Solar panals or wind
Regardless of the climate changes wind is cheaper by far. lets say you need 25Kw/H per day (that is my average use) This assumes no storage facility and constant production Solar you have MAYBE 12 hours/day to make electricity. Of that you can only count on 25% to be producing MAX panel power. This means you need to make 2Kw/h (12 hours production) and 6.25Kw/H with 4 hours for production. With wind you need only 1.05Kw/H Now reality says you wont get wind 24/7 (some palces do) and that you will have days where you wont get any sun. For a home wind setup I would go with 2Kw/H and a fair sized storage facility. Solar I would go with 10Kw/H and a huge storage facility. If I owned the building I live in (i rent office + apt in the same building) I would mount 4 500w generators on the roof. We have a fairly good wind blowing all the time. Plenty of space for a good 24v battery bank with 2000aH. Pay off is around 3 years. It can be much shorter depending on your power use along with if your power co has a co-generation energy credit program. Jeromie Tom Irwin wrote: Hi All, If climate change occurs from global warming do solar panels make more sense to buy or will wind be better. My thoughts go toward wind. If the temperature expected occur, many areas will have more cloudy days from all of the extra moisture evaporated into the atmosphere from the rising ocean tamperatures. What do you all think? Wind can be fairly constant in some areas and should only increase from climate change. Tom Irwin *From:* Mike Weaver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* Biofuel@sustainablelists.org *Sent:* Mon, 29 Aug 2005 20:56:33 -0300 *Subject:* Re: [Biofuel] Sept 1 declared no buy gas day FWIW BP is a fairly big player in solar panels - so far a 3-6 backlog of orders. Keith Addison wrote: Hi Darryl Very nice! I'm sure others can contribute more ideas beyond the list above. My point is, don't act for a day, act for a lifetime. I'm also sure, there've been some good contributions so far. If we can et some more I can compile them and make a page at Journey to Forever for it, might help. It would be nice to internationalise it a bit, but if it doesn't work out that way I don't mind. Best wishes Keith Well, then I guess we can expect to see BP putting all their gasoline stations up for sale. After all, the managers are required to maximize the returns for their shareholders. If the stations are losing money, they have to dump them. I won't be holding my breath. As for gas-outs - it's a sad joke, as has been pointed out here before. If you want to reduce gasoline (and diesel) consumption, for whatever reason, here's a start on what you can do to make a difference. 1) Walk somewhere. Anywhere. Just leave your guzzler parked. 2) Get a bicycle. Preferably something used. Try your local FreeCycle, or bike repair co-op, or a used bike dealer. Find something comfortable and practical for your use. Then use it. 3) Check the pressure on the tires on your vehicle. Correct if necessary. Slight overinflation is better for fuel economy than slight underinflation. Repeat monthly or more frequently if required. 4) Have your vehicle tuned up on a regular, appropriate schedule. Check owner's manual for details. Check for dragging brakes, emissions control system problems, etc while you are at it. 5) Plan your trips to minimize distance travelled (trip chaining). 6) Use public transit when available and appropriate. Or carpool. 7) Use biofuels, e.g. E100, E85, E10 as recommended for your vehicle. There are many flex-fuel vehicles on the road in the U.S. due to CAFE dual-fuel incentive, where the owners don't even know the vehicle is flex-fuel capable. Check your vehicle manual. Use biodiesel blend where available or appropriate (or make your own, of course). 8) Take extra weight out of your vehicle, as accelerating extra weight uses more energy, and de-accelerating extra weight increases brake wear. (e.g. sand and salt mixture for winter use should not be in the trunk all sumer as well). 9) When shopping for tires, look for economizer / fuel miser / energy wise labels. 10) When shopping for a replacement vehicle, look for something that is as fuel- efficient as possible while meeting most of your needs - not necessarily all of your needs. You can rent a vehicle to meet occasional requirements. 11) If you
