from:"desertstallion"


Hi,
Hi Mike, et. al.,
Well if we had more choices there might be less of a need for negative voting. 
What I mean is that it seems like a long long time since either of the two 
parties have put up candidates whom I wanted to vote for. Rather, I find myself 
voting for the one I least dislike.
Derek


 -- Original message --
From: Michael Redler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Thanks Doug,
>  
> I think nitpicking (as you say) is allowed in this forum.
>  
> It's always good to have someone around who is interested in checking the 
> details.
>  
> The only additional thing I would encourage is to look for what can't be 
> found 
> in print. "The proof of the pudding is in the tasting" and sometimes required 
> a 
> plane ticket.
>  
> One side note: I wonder what would happen if we had a coalition government, 
> required to "play nice" with six or eight political parties and forced to 
> negotiate our differences. As it is, we have difficulty with only two. :-)
>  
> Mike
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> With apologies for nitpicking, herewith some extracts from
> "Political Switzerland", a small book by Oswald Sigg (Zurich: Pro
> Helvetia, 1997):
> 
> "The Swiss Government is called the Federal Council. It consists of seven
> members and is headed for a period of one year by a president elected from
> among the Federal Council members."
> 
> "Ever since 1944, the [party] composition of the government has remained
> the same..."
> 
> "The Federal Council is elected by Parliament every four years (both
> chambers meet in the National Council Hall)..."
> 
> "The meetings of the Federal Council are chaired by the President of the
> Confederation who is elected for one year only from among the Federal
> Councillors. He is thus something in the nature of a prime Minister ad
> interim whose office consists first and foremost of chairing the meetings
> of the Federal Council and performing certain representative duties.
> During his year as president he also continues to be head of his own
> department. Switzerland has no actual head of state. When a foreign head
> of state, or even a queen, visits Berne [the capital of Switzerland],
> they are usually received by all seven members of the Federal Council."
> 
> "Each member of the Federal Council is the head of a department, or of
> what would be known abroad as a ministry. There are just seven such
> departments in Switzerland, so that each head of department is responsible
> for several sub-divisions which usually correspond to several ministries
> abroad."
> 
> "The Swiss Parliament, the Federal Assembly, is made up of two chambers:
> the National Council, with 200 members, and the Council of States, with 46
> members [2 per canton = U.S. state or Canadian province]."
> 
> The Assembly is elected by proportional representation. In 1995 it
> contained four relatively large parties and 8 small ones.
> 
> Since the party composition of the government hasn't changed since 1944
> and elections are likely to affect only personalities and particular
> measures, the turnout for elections to the Assembly tends to be low; 42.2%
> in 1995.
> 
> By petition of 50,000 citizens within 90 days of the passage of a law, it
> may be required to be ratified by a referendum.
> 
> In the cantons, proposals for laws may be put forward by a petition
> to be submitted to a referendum. The Federal Constitution is also subject
> to change through an initiative by petition of 100,000 citizens, followed
> by a referendum.
> 
> Doug Woodard
> St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada
> 
> 
> 
> On Fri, 4 Feb 2005, Michael Redler wrote:
> 
> > ...for what it's worth, My grandmother's house is only 400+ years old. 
> Freudian slip? :-)
> >
> > Michael Redler wrote:Hi Kieth,
> >
> > There's a lot of stuff you threw out there. To address it all would take a 
> heck of a lot of time -- suffice to say that I agree with most of it.
> >
> > Switzerland: If part of it's government was based on the US constitution, 
> > you 
> wouldn't know it. It gained it's Independence over 700 years ago and I think 
> they had it pretty much nailed down before Jefferson put pen to paper. I 
> visited 
> my grandmother two weeks ago as I've done almost every year since I was an 
> infant. Her 700+ year old house is a testament to their cautious attitude 
> toward 
> "progress" (I'm alluding to housing development).
> >
> > You are right about voting. Before my Aunt could build her new house, it 
> > had 
> to be approved by those in her neighborhood. She, in fact, had to build a 
> stick 
> frame of the house to show its size and shape and offer a visual aid for all 
> who 
> would approve it (or not).
> >
> > "Presidents": They have seven of them, representing all of the regions of 
> > the 
> confederation. Since Switzerland has four national languages, They are 
> usually 
> fluent in two or three of them (German French Italian and Rhetto-Romanish). 
> This 
> makes me wonder about the whole one

[Biofuel] Gobal Warming - Ice Buffering


Recently there have been many news reports concerning global warming, some of 
which have discussed the melting of huge amounts of glacial ice from the poles 
and high mountain ranges. Often, there is also mention of the fact that the 
actual global temperature has risen very little. What I haven't seen is anyone 
putting the two together. The same as in a buffered chemical or physiological 
system, I feel that the vast amount of ice in place on the earth is acting as a 
buffer. The same way that external measurements of a buffered chemical reaction 
will change very little despite radical changes within the system, I feel that 
the measured average temperature of the earth can be expected to change 
relatively little due to the absorption by the glacial ice of tremendous 
amounts of heat as it melts. In addition to all the potential problems caused 
by this melting ice on sea level, changes of sea water salinity, and sea water 
temperature, one may expect to see dramatic changes in global temperature once 
this buffer is exhausted. Let us not be mislead by assumptions that the earth 
might only see up to ten degrees of change. I don't think anyone has much of a 
clue as to the actual amount of heat that is being produced and absorbed into 
the ice. Once the ice is gone, we might really start cooking around here.

Derek
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Re: [Biofuel] U.S., Islam, and Religion


Hi Keith, et. al.,

Yes, that is what I had in mind. Kim had mentioned how much she valued the 
interaction on this list, something that I also value, and feel that many 
value. It is/has been an education and even an inspiration. At the same time, 
for the world in general, I feel that to move forward on many fronts we need 
something of a paradigm shift. I have also just about given up on the 
leadership of my home country (USA) and many others to actually lead us toward 
a better future. I see us stuck in a rut and going the wrong way extremely 
fast! I think the needed change will have to come from the bottom rather than 
from the top. I see the Internet as one way to promote communication between 
people, without intermediaries and their spin. Hakan mentioned the below quoted 
bit about the influence each person can have on so many others. This led me to 
think of the potential for global change that our conversations here on this 
list, across so many frontiers, cultures, religions, languages, etc., may 
possibly have.

Derek

-- Original message from Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: 
-- 


> Hello Derek 
> 
> >Hi, 
> > 
> ><> 
> > > 
> > > Yes, VERY many! And I don't believe you're passive about it, and not 
> > > without any effect. Your sister's not alone in wanting to leave, and 
> > > certainly not to be blamed for it either (not that I could blame 
> > > anyone for such a thing, with all my comings and goings for most of 
> > > my life!). But think of what Hakan's just been telling Luc about how 
> > > many other Iraqis one dead Iraqi will influence - one living American 
> > > who feels strongly about these things, even if she moves to Europe, 
> > > will influence just as many others: that's not to say convince, 
> > > necessarily, but influence, sway, yes. And there are many millions of 
> > > you. 
> > 
> >That has me wondering how many people about the world the almost 
> >3000 members of this List influence. 
> 
> Well, this is what Hakan said: 
> 
> >If you look at behavioral statistics for the humans, the mathematics 
> >goes like this, 
> > 
> >- On average a person will have and can manage around 10 very close 
> >relationship on the level of family and relatives. The 300,000 
> >killed, represent 3 million who lost a family member, killed by US. 
> >If anyone killed members of your family, how good is the chance that 
> >you are more inclined to join the resistance, instead of giving the 
> >killers your "hearts and mind"? 
> > 
> >- On average a person have around 30 close friends, with frequent 
> >contacts. The 300,00 killed, represent that around 9 million people 
> >lost a friend, killed by US. If anyone killed your friend, how good 
> >is the chance that you are more inclined to join the resistance, 
> >instead of giving the killers your "hearts and mind"? 
> > 
> >- On average a person have around 60 people, that he/she know and 
> >have infrequent contacts with. The 300,000 killed, represent that 
> >around 18 million people knew someone killed by US. If anyone killed 
> >someone you knew, how good is the chance that you are more inclined 
> >to join the resistance, instead of giving the killers your "hearts 
> >and mind"? 
> > 
> >If you only think about the above, almost all Iraqis have been 
> >touched by a killing performed by US ... 
> 
> I'm sure Hakan's got it right, as usual. 
> 
> I read once that if four people sat down together at a table, between 
> them, and the people they knew, and the people *they* knew, and so on 
> and on, they were connected with everyone in the world... and I could 
> never figure out whether that was far-fetched or not. 
> 
> Maybe not. 
> 
> >Change only takes a few, and they're always there and ready for it 
> >when the time comes, when the time is right society responds and is 
> >renewed. 
> 
> Or as Margaret Mead said (and Toynbee, and Jung): "Never 
> underestimate the power 
> of a small group of individuals to change the world. In fact, it is 
> the only thing that ever has." 
> 
> We can but hope. 
> 
> Regards 
> 
> Keith 
> 
> >Derek Hargis 
> > 
> > 
> > > Best wishes 
> > > 
> > > Keith 
> > > 
> > > >robert luis rabello 
> 
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Re: [Biofuel] U.S., Islam, and Religion


Hi Luc,

As I believe you said that your sister was thinking of moving to Europe from 
her homeland for a bit of fresh air, I might mention that I am a US expatriate. 
I've lived overseas now for a total of fifteen years. The reasons were varied, 
partly economic, partly to reduce work stress, and partly to improve my family 
life. I am also married to a European, which leads to some interesting 
(dis)harmonies as I constantly hear a European viewpoint in one ear and a US 
viewpoint in the other from my US family. The so called reverse culture shock 
is also interesting. Many things that before would have been so normal as to 
not even have reached the surface of my awareness now cause discomfort. It has 
been an education and a valued one.

I would encourage her to go. It would be an adventure and an education and I 
don't think she would ever regret it. I know we haven't.

Derek
-- Original message from "Legal Eagle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: 
-- 


> G'day Derek; 
> 
> We all have influence. There isn't a single person alive that doesn't have 
> it, at least in their own parameters, some more, some less, but all have it. 
> The trick/solution when combining cultures and traditions is not so much to 
> create a "melting pot" where all become one with different shades of colour, 
> but rather where all can co-habitate while continuing with their traditions 
> and cultural heritage where they are but without infriging upon the right of 
> others to do the same. Where modifications to this comes nto play is where 
> those certain cultural heritages clash violently or where the host country's 
> traditions and culture is cast aside and a new one attempted to be 
> implanted. Where the later is the case it somewhat negates the reason for 
> one leaving his/her native homeland in the first place eh? Why not just stay 
> there if all is well and no meaningful changes are in order ? 
> It boils down to what a person deems acceptable or not acceptable, livable 
> or intolerable. 
> Luc 
> - Original Message - 
> From: 
> To: 
> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2005 7:40 AM 
> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] U.S., Islam, and Religion 
> 
> 
> 
> > That has me wondering how many people about the world the almost 3000 
> > members of this List influence. 
> > 
> > Derek Hargis 
> > 
> > 
> >> Best wishes 
> >> 
> >> Keith 
> >> 
> >> >robert luis rabello 
> > ___ 
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> > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html 
> > 
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> > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ 
> > 
> 
> 
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Re: [Biofuel] U.S., Islam, and Religion

2005-02-05 Thread desertstallion


Hi,

<>
> 
> Yes, VERY many! And I don't believe you're passive about it, and not 
> without any effect. Your sister's not alone in wanting to leave, and 
> certainly not to be blamed for it either (not that I could blame 
> anyone for such a thing, with all my comings and goings for most of 
> my life!). But think of what Hakan's just been telling Luc about how 
> many other Iraqis one dead Iraqi will influence - one living American 
> who feels strongly about these things, even if she moves to Europe, 
> will influence just as many others: that's not to say convince, 
> necessarily, but influence, sway, yes. And there are many millions of 
> you. 

That has me wondering how many people about the world the almost 3000 members 
of this List influence.

Derek Hargis


> Best wishes 
> 
> Keith 
> 
> >robert luis rabello 
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Re: [Biofuel] Indura fabric

2005-01-26 Thread desertstallion


Dear Kim,

Rather than trying to remove the chemicals from the garments, consider trying 
to protect your husband from the garments/chemicals. Would it be feasible for 
him to wear a light cotton undergarment, similar to long underwear underneath 
the uniform. This way the chemicals would not be in direct contact with his 
skin and if the undergarment is washed frequently then leach through would be 
minimized. The idea would be similar to wearing a cotton glove underneath a 
latex glove for people with latex allergies. I understand that you live in 
Texas so the cotton would need to be thin or he might overheat in the summer.

Derek

-- Original message from Kim & Garth Travis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: 
-- 


> I would love something environmentally friendly, but we don't have a 
> say. I am wondering, if I do everything they say not to, such as washing 
> the garments with tallow soap, will I get rid of the chemicals? There is 
> no reason for my hubby to need fire protective gear, he has never been 
> involved with a fire in his 16 years with the company. I will not be 
> risking his life in anyway by removing the chemicals. I will be risking 
> him if I don't, especially in the summer in Texas! 
> 
> If there was any solidarity among the workers, we could fight this. The 
> only ones who have opened their mouths have found their work being 
> scrutinized under a fine microscope, if you know what I mean. There were 
> only 2 who cared, besides us. The general attitude is that the company 
> will pay if it harms us, so who cares? 
> 
> Bright Blessings, 
> Kim 
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Re: [Biofuel] (no subject)

2005-01-17 Thread desertstallion


Hi 
Wasn't the big magnesium fire in the same Anderson where you live?
Derek

 -- Original message --
From: "Brian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> They might.  Most of the industry here is gone, so it is probably not as big 
> as it once was.  There is still some amount of activity on the west side of 
> town, but not sure if it's Burlington Northern.
> 
> Brian
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Legal Eagle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2005 8:32 AM
> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] (no subject)
> 
> 
> > Doesn't Burlington Northern Trucking have a huge terminal in Anderson ?
<>
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Re: [Biofuel] Tripple Purpose Genset

2005-01-07 Thread desertstallion


Hi,

Although this would work, when I looked into similar stuff for power tools, 
etc., I came to the conclusion that it is better to have one gen-set and have 
everything else electric, than to have a bunch of diesel engines about. The 
maintenance is easier, the management of the systems is easier, the noise is 
better contained, and one has greater flexibility. Personally, I would go with 
a biodiesel or veg-oil fired gen-set for electric with co-gen heat for space 
heating. If refrigeration or air-conditioning is needed, go electric for that 
part.

Also, used Isocontainers are relatively easy to purchase if work or storage 
space is needed. They can be delivered and you don't need to worry about the 
wheeled undercarriage of a normal semi-trailer. They are available in a variety 
of sizes and as reefers if insulation is needed. Used rail cars would be 
difficult to move about. I believe the used isocontainers are also cheaper than 
the equivalent sized semi-trailers.

Derek Hargis

 -- Original message --
From: "Legal Eagle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> G'day John;
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "John Guttridge" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 6:41 PM
> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Tripple Purpose Genset
> 
> 
> > G'day Luc,
> >
> > where do you find one of these units and what do they cost?
> 
> At times they can be had where ever they sell and/or restore and/or service 
> refrigerated trailors. You want the diesel powered one. Cost will vary on 
> the used market. New would be in a couple to a few thousand I suspect. They 
> are electronically controlled with a type of "think pad" with all the 
> necessary gauges to let you know if something is amiss.
> I haven't tried out this idea yet although it seems from everything that I 
> have been abel to gather that there is no good reason why it wouldn't work 
> as expected. It is for all intents and purposes a diesel engine like any 
> diesel engine, with battery, fuel pump and filters, electric start and 
> thermometer swith controled. You set the temp you want on the control panel 
> and then when the temp gets there the thermometer tells the unit to stop 
> producing heat/cold. The position of the thermometer's "reader" is 
> important. In a trailer it is behind the back wall where the returning air 
> will hit it and record the inside air temp which it will then aloow the unit 
> to continue cooling/heating or tell it to "standby" until the temp drops/ 
> goes up enough to have it automatically switch on again.They can be set to 
> "continuous" run or "recycle". The later will turn the thing on and off as 
> the need is. The former will run the motor continuously although it will 
> still only heat/cool when the thermometer tells it to. On continuous run it 
> could also be charging a battery bank while waiting for the thermometer to 
> kick in.The power produced would not be for use by the unit itself as it is 
> stand-alone and self sufficient; the power would be for other stuff, like 
> lights or a processor or  other stuff.
> Like I said though, it is still only a work in the ideas stage at this time.
> Oh yeah, on full run all day it will consume about 25 liters fuel. A reafer 
> needs to be fueled every second day when on the road, so does that make it 
> viable ? I've not done any calculations yet.
> Luc
> 
> > John
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Re: [Biofuel] tsunami relief, construction efforts

2005-01-07 Thread desertstallion


Hi,
Consider Habitat for Humanity International.
http://www.habitat.org/
Derek Hargis

 -- Original message --
From: "Doug Younker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> As a volunteer for the local ARC chapter I'm unaware of any RC programs that
> plan to use the skills mentioned.  I would suggest first contacting the
> peace corps http://www.peacecorps.gov/ .  Many missionary groups may put his
> skills to use.  In the event one has no particular faith they may contact
> the local ministerial alliance or Salvation Army for more information.
> Doug, N0LKK
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> E Pluribus Unum
> Motto of the USA since 1776
> 
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Legal Eagle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 9:25 PM
> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] tsunami relief, construction efforts
 
> : 
Red Cross
> : Luc

> : - Original Message - 
> : From: "John Guttridge" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> : To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> : Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 12:06 PM
> : Subject: [Biofuel] tsunami relief, construction efforts
> :
> :
> : > My father is in the construction trade and he asked me last night who he
> : > might ask if his services would be useful in rebuilding things in
> : > tsunami devastated areas, I don't really have those kinds of contacts
> : > but I imagine someone on this list might. does anyone know who he would
> : > contact to offer to go over there and help rebuild?
> : >
> : > John Guttridge
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[Biofuel] Supermarket Giants Crush Central American Farmers

2005-01-01 Thread desertstallion

The New York Times
December 28, 2004
THE FOOD CHAIN | SURVIVAL OF THE BIGGEST
Supermarket Giants Crush Central American Farmers
By CELIA W. DUGGER

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/28/international/americas/28guatemala.html?th=&pagewanted=print&position=

PALENCIA, Guatemala - Mario Chinchilla, his face shaded by a battered straw
hat, worriedly surveyed his field of sickly tomatoes. His hands and jeans were
caked with dirt, but no amount of labor would ever turn his puny crop into the
plump, unblemished produce the country's main supermarket chain displays in its
big stores.

For a time, the farmer's cooperative he heads managed to sell vegetables to the
chain, part owned by the giant Dutch multinational, Ahold, which counts Stop &
Shop among its assets. But the co-op's members lacked the expertise, as well as
the money to invest in the modern greenhouses, drip irrigation and pest control
that would have helped them meet supermarket specifications.

Squatting next to his field, Mr. Chinchilla's rugged face was a portrait of
defeat. "They wanted consistent supply without ups and downs," he said,
scratching the soil with a stick. "We didn't have the capacity to do it."

Across Latin America, supermarket chains partly or wholly owned by global
corporate goliaths like Ahold, Wal-Mart and Carrefour have revolutionized food
distribution in the short span of a decade and have now begun to transform food
growing, too.

The megastores are popular with customers for their lower prices, choice and
convenience. But their sudden appearance has brought unanticipated and daunting
challenges to millions of struggling, small farmers.

The stark danger is that increasing numbers of them will go bust and join
streams of desperate migrants to America and the urban slums of their own
countries. Their declining fortunes, economists and agronomists fear, could
worsen inequality in a region where the gap between rich and poor already yawns
cavernously and the concentration of land in the hands of an elite has
historically fueled cycles of rebellion and violent repression.

"It's like being on a train with a glass on a table and it's about to fall off
and break," said Prof. Thomas Reardon, an agricultural economist at Michigan
State University. "Everyone sees the glass on the table - but do they see it
shaking? Do they see the edge? The edge is the structural changes in the
market."

In the 1990's supermarkets went from controlling 10 to 20 percent of the market
in the region to dominating it, a transition that took 50 years in the United
States, according to researchers at Michigan State and the Latin American
Center for Rural Development in Santiago, Chile.

Brazil, Argentina, Chile, Costa Rica and Mexico are furthest along. While the
changes have happened more slowly in poorer, more rural Central American
countries, they have begun to quicken here, too. In Guatemala, the number of
supermarkets has more than doubled in the past decade, as the share of food
they retail has reached 35 percent.

The hope that small farmers would benefit by banding together in
business-minded associations has not been borne out. Some like Aj Ticonel, in
the city of Chimaltenango, have succeeded. But the evidence suggests that the
failure of Mr. Chinchilla's co-op is the more common fate.

Its feeble attempts to sell to major supermarkets illustrate how the odds are
stacked against small farmers, as well as the uneven effects of globalization
itself. Many small farmers in the region are getting left behind, while
medium-sized and larger growers, with more money and marketing savvy, are far
more likely to benefit.

Most fruits and vegetables in the region are still sold in small shops and
open-air markets, but the value of supermarket purchases from farmers has
soared and now surpasses that of produce exports by two and half times,
researchers say.

The bottom line: supermarkets and their privately set standards already loom
larger for many farmers than the rules of the World Trade Organization.

Still, stiff competition from foreign growers is also quite real. To enter the
supermarkets of Guatemala's dominant supermarket chain, La Fragua - part of a
holding company one-third owned by Ahold - is to understand why Professor
Reardon likens them to a Trojan horse for foreign goods.

At La Fragua's immense distribution center in Guatemala City, trucks back into
loading docks, where electric forklifts unload apples from Washington State,
pineapples from Chile, potatoes from Idaho and avocados from Mexico.

The produce is trucked from here to the chain's supermarkets, which now span
the country. Scenes at a mall in Guatemala City anchored by Maxi Bodega, one of
the company's stores, suggest the evolving nature of grocery shopping for Latin
America's 512 million people.

On the ground floor was a sprawling, old-fashioned produce market. At the
entry, there was a shrine to its patron saint, the Virgin of Rosar

[biofuel] New York Times - Heavy Debt and Drought Drive India's Farmers to Desperation

2004-06-06 Thread desertstallion


Heavy Debt and Drought Drive India's Farmers to Desperation
By AMY WALDMAN
 
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/06/international/asia/06INDI.html?pagewanted=1&th
 
Published: June 6, 2004
 
 
ANANTAPUR, India ÷ For the 28th time in less than four hours, the telephone in 
the colonial-era district headquarters trilled. 
 
"Hello, help line," Gurram Pramila answered, her pen poised to record yet 
another tale of financial distress. 
 
A 55-year-old farmer who gave his name as Kadirappa was on the line, telling of 
a dry well on his eight acres and his $890 of debt. If the government did not 
help, he vowed, he would kill himself. 
 
Ms. Pramila, a junior bureaucrat untutored in improving mental health, 
improvised. "Don't lose heart," she told Kadirappa. "Have faith in yourself." 
 
The farmer's threat had the force of ominous context. In the past six years, 
2,000 to 3,000 farmers (the state has not compiled an official tally) are 
believed to have committed suicide in this state, Andhra Pradesh, many of them 
in this arid district. Fifty to 100 have killed themselves since a new state 
government took office in mid-May, promising farmers relief. 
 
A help line set up by the government on May 22 had already logged more than 800 
calls a week later. Close to half were from this district, most of them fielded 
by Ms. Pramila. 
 
The template of the calls ÷ dry land and crushing debt ÷ never varied, nor did 
their desperate tone. 
 
Nine wells failed on 10 acres owned by a farmer named Umapatty, and he owed 
$4,400 to banks and moneylenders. J. Narayanappa had two dry wells on 20 acres, 
and owed $5,777. Ms. Pramila took down the details, and promised that an 
official would follow up. 
Most of the suicidal farmers have swallowed pesticides, the easiest killer at 
hand. Burdened by compound interest, they compound tragedy, leaving families 
their debts, and depriving them of fathers, husbands and breadwinners.
 
"I would have thrown the pills out," said Pullamma, the haggard widow of Jayram 
Reddy, 52, who killed himself on May 22 by swallowing ammonium phosphate 
tablets in the village of Regadikothur. 
 
He lay down on the family veranda to die, whispering to her that he could not 
bear the burden of more than $6,000 in debt. Now she will go to other farmers' 
fields to labor for 45 cents a day. 
 
India has seen spates of similar suicides in recent years, in states from 
Punjab to Kerala. In part, the suicides reflect a rural culture in which excess 
indebtedness becomes a mark of shame, which private moneylenders and public 
creditors milk to try to collect.
 
But the dead farmers are also the canaries in the mine for India's agricultural 
economy ÷ indicators of dire straits. Agriculture, which supports two-thirds of 
India's more than one billion people, generates only one-quarter of its gross 
domestic product. In the past five years, while the services sector has grown 
an average of 8 percent a year, agriculture has grown just 2 percent a year. 
 
India's new government rode to power partly on the back of farmers' angst, but 
salving it will not be easy. In the farmers' plight, all the strands of an 
economy in transition intersect. This area had four successive years of 
drought, but the farmers have been buffeted by more than weather. 
 
With small landholdings, constrained markets for their products, and an 
overdependence on subsidies for power and fertilizer, India's farmers were ill 
equipped to compete when the national government undertook economic reforms in 
1991. 
 
To a degree, the suicides reflect the farmers' bafflement at the gradual, and 
erratic, withdrawal of the state. They have felt the cost of reforms ÷ but have 
yet to see the benefits. 
 
Jayram Reddy was the second farmer in his village to kill himself. On Nov. 20, 
Nagalinga Reddy, no relation, took the same route, using the same method. The 
buildup to his death, at age 50, suggests the confluence of conditions that 
have driven farmers to desperation. 
 
Nagalinga Reddy grew rice and sunflowers. Only 10 of his acres were irrigated. 
He sank five bore wells at a minimum cost of $200 apiece ÷ but only two struck 
water. 
 
In Nagalinga Reddy's village, the cost of powering the pumps had risen 
sevenfold in recent years, with the state government trying to wean farmers off 
free power. 
 
The cost of fertilizers had risen, too, as the government sought to reduce 
subsides. 
 
Nagalinga Reddy had regularly lost crops to drought, dry wells and pests in the 
past seven years. He had stopped farming cotton because of pests, which drove 
hundreds of farmers to suicide in Warangal, another of the state's districts. 
In October, by the time he scraped together the money to spray his crop, the 
pests had gotten it. 
 
He was $9,000 in debt to three banks, one cooperative society and moneylenders. 
Bank officers regularly came to visit, and one bank took legal action. The 
moneylenders regularly harassed him. He avoided the ignominy of hav

Re: [biofuel] Biodiesel Homebrew Guide was Re: You ought to write a book.

2004-06-01 Thread desertstallion


Hi Mark,

Can the book be purchased as a PDF? Or, on a CD?

Derek




> --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, murdoch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > 
> > She did actually have an $8 book (about 80 pages she'd printed out..
> ..
> > it was not published with a hard cover or by a publishing house) 
> that
> > she had written that she was selling at the end of class, as well.  
> I
> > don't know if she has posted a spot online where you can order this
> > (plus shipping, etc.).  I'm sure some of us would rather see her 
> rake
> > in payment-for-valuable information than watch Mr. Tickell rake in
> > money for his work.
> > 
> > That book that she wrote might fit your description, or if she
> > collaborated to have people like Todd or Keith add their own areas 
> in
> > it, or introductions to it, it might help add an extra level of
> > anti-FTFT capability to it maybe just brief essays discussing 
> the
> > importance of countering the bad info that is getting out there.  
> That
> > would add a lot of work though.  Fact is, she seemed to be selling
> > something that might fit your suggestion.
> > 
> > MM
> 
> 
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> Just got back home from my Arizona trip and am catching up on this and 
> other threads again. I just printed a few more copies of my 'Biodiesel 
> Homebrew Guide' book. It's 85 pages and is available by mail for $10 
> (US, Canada and Mexico) or $14 to other countries. To order it you 
> have to use PayPal- go to PayPal.com to send the appropriate amount to 
> my account which is [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> 
> 
> thanks for the interest,
> 
> mark
> 
> 


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Re: [biofuel] Re: smartcar

2004-05-11 Thread desertstallion

Hi MM,

There are at least a couple of levels to this in Europe. One level is of 
smaller cars. I believe the VW Lupo and the Polo fit here. They are both 
smaller than a Golf/Jetta-Bora/New Beetle, but easily reach highway speeds. 
They can go long distances, albeit one would want to stop and stretch 
frequently. Then, recently I have been seeing more of the three and four wheel 
vehicles which are totally enclosed against the weather and are classed as 
motorcycles. Their classification depends upon the maximum engine displacement, 
which I believe is 50 cc. They don't reach highway speeds and are frequently 
seen tooling along the shoulder of the road being passed by the larger 
vehicles. They are great for city use as they go fast enough for city traffic, 
are much much easier to park, and are relatively inexpensive.

I can still remember something of a 'duh moment' a bit after I first went to 
Europe and I first realixed that the VW Beetle that I considered to be a small 
car, was a large car by the European standards of the time. Still today, one 
sees plenty of the smaller VW Polos and similar sized cars. Clearly there are 
larger vehicles, which are basically the same as the imported European cars 
seen in the US market, but the percentage has to be fairly low. The vast 
majority of the vehicles would appear to be VW Golf sized.

Part of this is the different transportation model seen in Europe when I first 
went there. Cars were mostly used for transportation locally, and often only 
when the city bus wasn't available or convenient. Many people didn't have a 
car. Any travel between cities was by bus or train. I think Europe has moved 
slightly away from this model as cars have become more popular, more divided 
highways have been built, and long distance car travel has become more accepted.

Derek

> Thanks for the info.  If true, this would fill in a gap.  I've heard from
> several builders of proposed "city" type cars, or smaller cars that were at
> highway speeds or maybe only went to city speeds, that some sort of problem 
> like
> this with DOT regs is the factor in preventing them from reasonable access to
> U.S. markets.  The REVA people, when I spoke to them, were already on the road
> with hundreds of cars in India and maybe one or two other places, and were 
> keen
> to come to the US, if not for this type of problem with DOT regs.  The car was
> designed here but had to be made and sold elsewhere.
> 
> Funny, but I've never heard anyone go over this issue outside of these
> discussion groups and outside of industry people.  I don't think I've ever 
> seen
> a news article on it.
> 
> About the Honda you mention: I never knew about that tiny little Honda until I
> saw an ad for their resurrection of the small little convertible idea and they
> had some history of the matter as to the first car they brought here.
> 
> MM
> 
> On Mon, 10 May 2004 08:36:43 +, you wrote:
> 
> >Hi,
> >
> >Back in the mid-70s Honda began importing into the US market their first 
> >car. 
> Earlier they had just imported motocycles. A friend of mine had one and he 
> loved 
> it. Unfortunately, after a couple of years that model was discontinued and 
> Honda 
> only imported larger vehicles. I was told that the DOT regulations were 
> changed 
> to require cars to have a longer wheel base than that early Honda. At the 
> time, 
> I thought it was for safety reasons. Now, I wonder if there wasn't some other 
> reason why those regulations were put into place. Anyway, when I lived in 
> Europe 
> in the 80s, I often saw neat small city cars, like the Fiat 500 and the 
> original 
> Mini. Again, I was told they weren't exported to the US market because they 
> were 
> too small to meet regulations. So...my take on why the VW Lupo and the MB 
> Smart 
> Car aren't in the US market is based on these DOT regulations, not on some 
> sort 
> of problem with the engine. And, that is why they are considering an upsized 
> model of the Smart Car in 2006 for the
> >US market. If we want to see these small fuel efficient models in the US 
> market, even just for city/town use, something needs to be done about the DOT 
> regulations which require a minimum wheel base.
> >
> >Derek
> >
> >
> >> I wonder, will Smart make the little SUV (Smart Urban Vehicle?) weigh in at
> >> 6,000 lbs to qualify for the tax write-off?  ;)
> >> 
> >> Ryan
> >>   -Original Message-
> >>   From: Neoteric Biofuels Inc [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>   Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 7:38 AM
> >>   To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
> >>   Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: smartcar
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >>   RE: name...Maybe SUV "Sport Utlity Vehicle" is a name that needs
> >>   reclamation anyway...the ones out there now are neither sporty nor
> >>   utilitarian.
> >> 
> >>   Edward Beggs
> >> 
> >> 
> >>   On Thursday, May 6, 2004, at 07:51 PM, Brian wrote:
> >> 
> >>   > "Smart" does have plans to start marketing in the US in 2006.  They
> >>   > are d

RE: [biofuel] Re: smartcar

2004-05-10 Thread desertstallion

Hi,

Back in the mid-70s Honda began importing into the US market their first car. 
Earlier they had just imported motocycles. A friend of mine had one and he 
loved it. Unfortunately, after a couple of years that model was discontinued 
and Honda only imported larger vehicles. I was told that the DOT regulations 
were changed to require cars to have a longer wheel base than that early Honda. 
At the time, I thought it was for safety reasons. Now, I wonder if there wasn't 
some other reason why those regulations were put into place. Anyway, when I 
lived in Europe in the 80s, I often saw neat small city cars, like the Fiat 500 
and the original Mini. Again, I was told they weren't exported to the US market 
because they were too small to meet regulations. So...my take on why the VW 
Lupo and the MB Smart Car aren't in the US market is based on these DOT 
regulations, not on some sort of problem with the engine. And, that is why they 
are considering an upsized model of the Smart Car in 2006 for the US market. If 
we want to see these small fuel efficient models in the US market, even just 
for city/town use, something needs to be done about the DOT regulations which 
require a minimum wheel base.

Derek

> I wonder, will Smart make the little SUV (Smart Urban Vehicle?) weigh in at
> 6,000 lbs to qualify for the tax write-off?  ;)
> 
> Ryan
>   -Original Message-
>   From: Neoteric Biofuels Inc [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>   Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 7:38 AM
>   To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
>   Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: smartcar
> 
> 
> 
>   RE: name...Maybe SUV "Sport Utlity Vehicle" is a name that needs
>   reclamation anyway...the ones out there now are neither sporty nor
>   utilitarian.
> 
>   Edward Beggs
> 
> 
>   On Thursday, May 6, 2004, at 07:51 PM, Brian wrote:
> 
>   > "Smart" does have plans to start marketing in the US in 2006.  They
>   > are designing an SUV for our market, and not planning to market the
>   > fortwo here.  Isn't Smart SUV an oxymoron?  I'm thinking that the
>   > name of the company says it all when it comes to why they're not
>   > selling in the US.  No market for such a product here.
>   >
>   > Brian
>   >
>   > --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, murdoch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>   >> On Thu, 6 May 2004 17:11:34 -0500, you wrote:
>   >>
>   >>> Murdoch,
>   >>>
>    Isn't this partly an issue of Ultra-Low-Sulfur Diesel not being
>    commonly available here, yet, the way it is in Europe?  If the
>   > fuel
>    appropriate to how they designed the engine were common,
>   > wouldn't they
>    be more inclined to sell the vehicle here?
>   >>>
>   >>> I'm not familiar with the fuel requirements of the Lupo.
>   >>>
>   >>> However, ULSD is only a few years away in the US, market wide.
>   >>>
>   >>> Todd Swearingen
>   >>
>   >> I think, by one measure, a few years is probably not that much
>   > time.
>   >> A refinery engineer, looking at the costs or difficulties, might
>   > have
>   >> a thing or two to tell us about this.
>   >>
>   >> But at the same time, I think this few years has been part of why
>   > we
>   >> haven't seen the advent of such cars as the LUPO or many other
>   >> affordable promising mileage-oriented excellent New-Diesel-
>   > Technology
>   >> vehicles in the U.S.
>   >>
>   >> It could even be used as a pretext to prevent (for awhile)
>   > admitting
>   >> the Smart Car.  Apparently, though, the diesel fuel in Canada won't
>   >> take the engine out of warranty, so I don't know about that.
>   >>
>   >> As I mentioned, with respect to the Smart Car, I think we should
>   >> anticipate that devilish pretexts will be used to delay or prevent
>   >> admission of something as promising looking as the Smart Car.  If
>   > I'm
>   >> wrong, then I will be the happiest about this.  I am just erring on
>   >> the side of assuming that "the opposition" (for want of a better
>   > way
>   >> to put a face to a name) will not discontinue operations because
>   > we've
>   >> finally found a promising alternative.

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[biofuel] NYT Article - US Farm Subsidies Impact Developing World

2004-04-28 Thread desertstallion


Those Illegal Farm Subsidies

Published: April 28, 2004

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/28/opinion/28WED1.html?th
 
America's lavish handouts to its farmers harvest poverty throughout the 
developing world. And they are illegal as well. That's the conclusion of a 
World Trade Organization panel that heard Brazil's challenge to the cotton 
subsidies that belie this nation's commitment to free and fair trade.

Cotton is far from the only crop that American farmers are able to dump on the 
international market at low prices thanks to federal subsidies. But it is one 
of the most outrageous cases. Brazil was wise in choosing it as the first 
target in the developing world's challenge of the roughly $1 billion a day in 
subsidies that rich nations dole out to their farmers. If the preliminary 
ruling stands, as expected, it may mean the beginning of the end for European 
and American practices that provide their farmers an unfair advantage.

In addition to Brazil, an agricultural superpower, some of the world's poorest 
nations, including the West African republics of Mali, Benin and Burkina Faso, 
are vindicated by the W.T.O.'s decision. Cotton is West Africa's cash crop, the 
one economic activity in which the region has a competitive advantage. By 
underwriting much of the costs of America's 25,000 cotton farmers with checks 
that can total $3 billion a year, Washington erases that advantage. Aided by 
American experts who are critics of this warped system, Brazil convincingly 
argued that in the absence of subsidies, the United States would have produced 
and exported substantially less cotton than it did in recent years. 
Consequently, growers elsewhere would have enjoyed greater market share and 
higher prices.

The glaring contradiction between American farm subsidies and the principles 
underlying the global trade system has long posed a moral and political problem 
for Washington. Now it is also a legal problem. Instead of digging in its heels 
and spending years appealing the panel's ruling, the Bush administration needs 
to seize upon it as a reason to negotiate the surrender of rich nations' 
trade-distorting farm subsidies.

The administration has a mixed record on this issue. It offered proposals to 
start weaning corporate farmers off their subsidies two years ago ÷ admittedly 
after approving a farm bill that exacerbated the problem. Then it backed away 
in the face of strong opposition from Congress and the European Union. That 
retreat not only hurt the poor nations' farmers, but also American taxpayers, 
consumers and most business interests, including more competitive farmers. 

The W.T.O.'s talks on the further liberalization of trade faltered over the 
subsidy issue at Cancn last year, but this week's ruling will vastly 
strengthen the position of Brazil and others advocating the dismantling of 
agricultural subsidies that distort trade. The sooner they prevail, the better. 





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Re: [biofuel] Re: Big and Bad: How The SUV ran over automotive safety


Hi,

Just to add to your paranoia, I just read an article about the recent terrorist 
attempt in Jordan that was foiled, and the intent was to use H2SO4 as either an 
explosive intensifier, or to produce a toxic cloud. I'm sure all suppliers and 
all purchasers will now be getting extra attention.

Derek





> I've had my TDI for two winters now, the first of which I didn't 
> have a garage.  Never a problem starting with straight dino diesel.  
> Indiana winters can get fairly chilly, with last winter being one of 
> the worst recently for cold temperatures.  
> 
> I'm hoping that by the time winter comes again I'll be running 
> straight biodiesel, if I can just get supply problems worked out.  I 
> still haven't been able to convince anyone to sell me H2SO4, and the 
> race fuel supplier who was supposed to deliver a drum of methanol 
> last week didn't show up and is not returning my phone calls.  I'm 
> almost starting to get a little paranoid about this.
> 
> Brian


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Re: [biofuel] OT: Worldwide Publicly Traded Sustainable Technology or Conservation Investments


Hi,

How about EHN - Energia Hidroelectrica de Navarra

http://www.ehn.es/eng/index0.html

"A leading group in renewables"
-- Wind Power, Small Hydro, Biomass, Solar, and Bioclimatic Architecture

I have no idea how one would invest in the company, perhaps through the Spanish 
stock market.

Derek



> On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:00:13 -0700, you wrote:
> 
> >Does anyone here have any ideas for investments in stocks (anywhere in
> >the world... does *not* have to be North America) that have a good
> >sustainable technology or energy technology or conservation angle?  
>


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Re: [biofuel] Re: Big and Bad: How The SUV ran over automotive safety


Hi Brian,

The TDIs in our experience are a pleasure to drive. We wanted the Golf as we 
felt it would be the most practical for a college bound youngster to carry 
stuff here and there. They didn't have one available and showed us the Jetta. 
We were impressed with the size of the truck, realized that it would do quite 
well, and we purchased. It has run extremely well...we have the manual 
transmission...including starting well through the winter. Also, from dad's 
perspective, I was pleased with the multiple safety features including 
something like nine airbags/curtains. I think if my daughter would have been 
left entirely on her own to choose between the three TDI models, she would have 
gone for the Beetle. I convinced her that she would need the cargo space of 
either the Golf or the Jetta. She has been very happy with the Jetta.

It is quite a change from the older 1980 Volvo Wagon with a VW manufactured 
Diesel that we drove to close to 200,000 miles before it died. It was sluggish, 
smoked tremendously, and was difficult to start in the winter, even with 
kerosene mixed in the fuel and with the block warmer plugged in. One was 
required to be a diesel lover to drive that car. To its credit, we got 28 mpg 
in constant city driving, and around 38 mpg on the highway, averaging generally 
around 34. This in a car that was built as heavy as a tank and when 
contemporary cars were often below 20 mpg. In contrast, this new TDI is a 
pleasure...I think...for anyone to drive. It doesn't even come with a block 
warmer! My daughter tells me she was able to start it all winter long without 
difficulty...better than many of her friends with gas burners.

Derek


> Derek,
> 
> Thanks for sharing your view.  I couldn't agree more with the 
> concept of having different vehicles for different purposes.  I 
> don't have need for a truck often enough to own one, but once or 
> twice a year have enough need to rent one.  That works for me.  I am 
> finding that my TDI Beetle doesn't have quite the cargo space I want 
> as I venture into the world of biodiesel, so plan to replace that in 
> the not too distant future with a TDI Jetta wagon.  The Beetle will 
> go to my daughter, whose needs it fits very well.
> 
> Brian
 


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Re: [biofuel] Big and Bad: How The SUV ran over automotive safety

Lillie,

I think you are talking about commuter traffic. Most commuters have the good 
sense to leave the behemouth at home while they drive something more compact to 
work. Besides the fuel issues it is much easier to park a smaller car in the 
city. I know at times people critize families for having a large number of 
cars. I personally don't think it is necessarily bad. They have a larger 
vehicle available for family outings and for carting around the children while 
using the smaller vehicle for short runs to the store, or to commute to work. 
Back in 1987 I bought a large crew cab F-350 with dual wheels. I paid extra for 
the Diesel engine to improve its fuel mileage and later added a Gear Vendors 
over-drive transmission which improved its fuel mileage by 5 mpg. I drove it 
when I needed a truck, my parents who lived close by drove it when they needed 
a truck, and now that my children are reaching driving age they drive it when 
they need a truck. But, my parents primary vehicle is a car, my wife drove a 
Volvo Diesel wagon, and I had a relatively small Jeep wrangler for work 
purposes. I had a job that required me to be able to get to work regardless of 
weather...therefore the Jeep. We have since moved from the US, but my eldest 
daughter has a VW TDI Jetta, and the truck is still going strong driven by my 
parents and my kids, and I drive it when I visit. To me, this makes common 
sense, to use the vehicle best suited for the need at hand, and for something 
like a truck, that one probably doesn't need every day, to share it between 
families. In my case, it is shared across three generations!

Derek

> I do see many more very large Toyota (Land Cruiser & Sequoia) and the new
> Nissan's Armada; boy does that name spell out the problem! Commercial
> traffic of all types and sizes is huge but the largest number are the
> smaller sedans. Many of what's being called SUV are the mini-Ute's and
> repackaged mini-vans.
> 
> Lillie
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "murdoch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Monday, April 26, 2004 11:50 AM
> Subject: Re: [biofuel] Big and Bad: How The SUV ran over automotive safety
> 
> 
> > In addition to the other answers you've received, I will put in my two
> > cents, which is that, in this rural part of Southern Arizona, I have
> > looked around in a parking lot recently where it was hard to find too
> > many "cars".  This helps bring to our attention the connection between
> > the pickup trucks (of which one sees many) and the SUVs (of which one
> > sees many).  As to precisely which SUVs, that's hard to say, I don't
> > pay overly much attention, but I think part of your experience may be
> > based on what you've noticed and not what was there.  Maybe now that
> > we've had this conversation, you'll notice more?  Another possibility
> > I guess is a difference in vehicle-buying demographics between your
> > area and our(s).
> >
> > I wonder, for those families with several vehicles (such as affluent
> > parts of Baltimore or D.C.) if they put the larger SUVs away for a
> > little, during a rise in fuel prices?
> >
> >
> > On Sun, 25 Apr 2004 17:26:41 -0400, you wrote:
> >
> > >I drive between Baltimore, MD and Washington, D.C. on 95 in some of the
> US's
> > >heaviest traffic every day to work. I see an Expedition maybe once a week
> > >and a Navigator maybe once a month. So I must ask, where are them all?
> > >
> > >Lillie
> > >
> > >- Original Message - 
> > >From: "Keith Addison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >To: 
> > >Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2004 3:17 PM
> > >Subject: Re: [biofuel] Big and Bad: How The SUV ran over automotive
> safety
> > >
> > >
> > >> >http://www.gladwell.com/2004/2004_01_12_a_suv.html
> > >> >
> > >> >AP
> > >>
> > >> Hi Alan
> > >>
> > >> Thanks, I enjoyed that, learnt a lot - and about more than just SUVs.
> > >> Good read.
> > >>
> > >> Regards
> > >>
> > >> Keith
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> > >> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> > >>
> > >> Biofuels list archives:
> > >> http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
> > >>
> > >> Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
> > >> To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> > >> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >> Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> > >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> > >
> > >Biofuels list archives:
> > >http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
> > >
> > >Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
> > >To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> > >[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> >
> > Biofuels list archives:
> > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
> >
> > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
> > To unsubscribe, send an email to:
> > [EMA

Re: [biofuel] Re: OT: Worldwide Publicly Traded Sustainable Technology or Conservation Investments


Hi,

I guess a good excuse to take a trip to Australia!! One would think that if it 
were working well in Manzanares, they would have left it functioning.

Regards,

Derek



> 
> Derek,
> 
> I do not think that Spain can show anything today,
> 
> "Scientists have already built a successful prototype in Manzanares, Spain. 
> The plant operated from 1982 and 1989 and had a consistent output of 50 
> kilowatts of green energy. "
> 
> Do not operate after 1989 as far as I can understand.
> 
> Hakan
> 
> 
> 
> At 18:35 26/04/2004, you wrote:
> >Hi Art,
> >
> >Thank you for the link. Very interesting. I get to Spain from time-to-time 
> >and I'd like to try and see the prototype.
> >
> >Derek
> >
> >
> >Derek,
> >
> >Try this one for size:
> >
> >http://www.cbc.ca/storie
> s/2002/08/21/aus_power_020821
> >
> >Art



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Re: [biofuel] Deserts - was Re: OT: Worldwide Publicly Traded Sustainable Technology ...


Hakan,

My condolences. Although I hesitate to speak for the list in general, you and I 
have been here together for a number of years. You speak out much more 
frequently than I, but regardless, I think after a while of sharing experiences 
together, albeit through a list, one gets a feeling of family. As a fellow list 
brother, please accept my heart felt prayers for you and those close to you as 
you get back on your feet.

Derek


Derek,


I would have liked to expand this issue much more, but Teddy and I had a 
significant and great personal loss, http://energysavingnow.com/ and at the 
moment, I have difficulties in keeping my spirit for the energy 
issues up.

Hakan



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Re: [biofuel] Re: OT: Worldwide Publicly Traded Sustainable Technology or Conservation Investments


Hi Art,

Thank you for the link. Very interesting. I get to Spain from time-to-time and 
I'd like to try and see the prototype.

Derek


Derek,

Try this one for size:

http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2002/08/21/aus_power_020821

Art


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Re: [biofuel] OT: auto safety tips


Hi Greg,

That qualifier helps tremendously!

Derek



> At 7:08 AM 4/26/04, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >Hi Greg,
> >
> >Please provide a source for your statement number 2. On the face of it, I
> >find it highly unlikely.
> >
> >Derek
> >
> Simple. Read any statistics on the number of abortions performed in the USA
> annually.
> 
> Greg
> 
> >> 1. Your handgun related death number is grossly inflated.
> >>
> >> 2. The number killed in car wrecks annually is, incredibly, only a small
> >> fraction of the number killed by medical doctors each year !!
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >>
> >> Greg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> 
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> http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
> 
> Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address.
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> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 


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Re: [biofuel] OT: auto safety tips


Hi Greg,

Please provide a source for your statement number 2. On the face of it, I find 
it highly unlikely.

Derek



> At 1:51 PM 4/25/04, Neoteric Biofuels Inc wrote:
> >Over 42,000 US citizens are killed per year, by each other, using cars.
> >
> >Close to 3,000,000 injured. (1)
> >
> >(What makes it so possible to drive so much, thus exposing oneself to
> >the risk? Cheap, heavily subsidized fuel. Public money spent on roads.
> >Externalized costs. What makes it so necessary? Development based on
> >automobile culture and the assumption that society will pay for a large
> >portion of the cost of the roads, and continue to subsidize cheap fuel.)
> >
> >(BTW, that is about triple the number of people killed via handguns in
> >the USA annually)
> 
> 1. Your handgun related death number is grossly inflated.
> 
> 2. The number killed in car wrecks annually is, incredibly, only a small
> fraction of the number killed by medical doctors each year !!
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Greg


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[biofuel] NYT Article - New Allies in the Energy Wars


New Allies in the Energy Wars

Published: April 26, 2004

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/26/opinion/26MON5.html?th
 
The spirit of bipartisanship on energy and environmental policy that has taken 
root among Eastern governors is showing signs of life in the West, 
traditionally an area of nonstop ideological warfare on these issues. Earlier 
this month, at an "energy summit" of governors and representatives from 18 
Western states, Gov. Bill Richardson of New Mexico, a Democrat, and Gov. Arnold 
Schwarzenegger of California, a Republican, co-signed a statement strongly 
endorsing energy efficiency and setting aggressive targets for much greater use 
of wind, solar, biomass and other forms of renewable energy throughout the 
region.

This was not politically risky for either man. Mr. Richardson, who served as 
President Bill Clinton's energy secretary, is known for his progressive views 
on these issues. Mr. Schwarzenegger's constituents include many lively and 
vocal environmentalists. Even so, their joint appeal for more enlightened 
strategies contrasts sharply with the gridlock over energy policy in Washington 
and with the Bush administration's faithful obeisance to the needs of producers 
of traditional fuels like oil, natural gas and coal. 

The statement is intended as the starting point for a more detailed regional 
strategy the two governors will offer at another meeting in June. It calls for 
the 18 Western states to develop at least 30,000 megawatts of electricity from 
renewable sources by 2015. That is about 15 percent of current demand in the 
region. The statement also calls for a 20 percent increase in electrical 
efficiency by 2020. Energy experts regard these targets as ambitious but 
achievable.

The statement is timely because energy policy at the national level is moving 
in exactly the opposite direction. Congress favors traditional fossil-fuel 
industries. The Interior Department, following the playbook drawn up by the 
Cheney energy task force three years ago, is aggressively seeking to drill for 
oil and gas on sensitive public lands. And, according to recent surveys, 
Western regulators are abandoning plans for cleaner but more costly gas-fired 
power plants and instead are considering proposals for 35 new coal-fired power 
plants, all of them based on decades-old technologies that do little to control 
carbon dioxide, the main global warming gas.

In recent years, innovative thinking on energy policy at the state level has 
been largely confined to the East, where officials like Gov. George Pataki of 
New York have developed plans for collective action to reduce air pollution and 
develop alternative energy sources. It is heartening to see Western governors 
rise to the challenge.





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Re: [biofuel] Re: OT: Worldwide Publicly Traded Sustainable Technology or Conservation Investments

2004-04-24 Thread desertstallion


Hi Art,

I'm not sure of all of the intricacies of how the Saharan dust gets to the 
Amazon, but here is one of several sources supporting this found via a quick 
Google search.

http://www.rsmas.miami.edu/divs/mpo/Academics/Projects/Liu.doc

As you said, this is not at the crux of the discussion. It was just to give you 
an example of the fact that desert lands often have plenty of soil and are 
capable of growing food under the right conditions and it doesn't require 
'hydroponics.'

And, all of this is off the track of the original poster. His concept was of 
obtaining open desert land to be used for energy production, not to be used for 
food production. As I recall, you came back stating something to the effect 
that one couldn't live on a desert island because one couldn't produce food. As 
I understood his original post, and what I am supporting as possible, is the 
use of large tracks of open land for future production of energy, basically 
capturing the incident solar energy. And, I still can not see why one couldn't 
engineer a concept to do this.

I can still remember being in Maracaibo years ago getting a car repaired. The 
garage had a large open lot to work on vehicles. About 40 feet above the lot 
they had a corrugated metal roof. It was early afternoon, and that roof looked 
to me to be red hot from the sunlight incident upon it. However, it was high 
enough that none of the heat radiating from that roof bothered us at ground 
level. As the 'building' didn't have any walls, there was more than enough 
light from the sides to work, and it was clear that the working conditions in 
the open lot were enhanced by having that simple roof to block the sun.

So...although it wouldn't be economically feasible at this time...in future...I 
can visualize in places like Saudi large land areas where they have built solar 
collectors suspended well above the ground level. If they utilized roughly half 
of the incident light for electricity production, there would be plenty of 
remaining light below the structure to farm. The solar energy production could 
be supplemented by wind generators as they wouldn't block significant incident 
light from the solar collectors. The amount of light reaching ground level 
would be about what is needed to farm, and it wouldn't be nearly as hot at 
ground level either, and water needs would be consequently diminished. As I 
mentioned before, I currently see small scale structures in Saudi where they 
grow vegetables using translucent plastic roofs to allow only about half the 
incident light to reach the ground. It seems wasteful that the light blocked by 
the roof is not utilized...whereas if the roof were replaced by a solar 
collector it would be.

Anyway...I doubt that I would see something large scale like that in my 
lifetime...but I think it would work as well or better than a lot of other 
large scale solar collector sci-fi type concepts.

Regards,

Derek


> Bob,
> 
> The PREVAILING winds do move from west to east in both hemispheres due to the 
> rotation of the earth.  Hurricanes, which contain a large amount of energy, 
> can 
> move in a variety of directions - especially near the equator.
> 
> Note the following:
> 
> http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/weather/A0849225.html
> trade winds, movement of air toward the equator, from the NE in the Northern 
> Hemisphere and from the SE in the Southern Hemisphere. The trade winds 
> originate 
> on the equatorial sides of the horse latitudes, which are two belts of high 
> air 
> pressure, one lying between 25¡ and 30¡ north of the equator and the other 
> lying 
> between 25¡ and 30¡ south of it. The high air pressure in these belts forces 
> air 
> to move toward a belt of low air pressure along the equator called the 
> doldrums. 
> The air converging at the doldrums rises high over the earth, recirculates 
> poleward, and sinks back toward the earth's surface in the region of the 
> horse 
> latitudes, thus completing a cycle. The air does not move directly north or 
> south because it is deflected by the rotation of the earth. See wind; 
> Coriolis 
> effect.
> 
> It is not a serious point however.  The issue for me is trying to generate 
> food 
> in desert like conditions.  You can do it - you can also push water up hill 
> but 
> it all takes an inordinate amount of cheap energy to make it work.  The goal 
> is 
> to make the system sustainable which means, most likely, that you need to 
> work 
> with nature rather than against it.
> 
> Art
>   - Original Message - 
>   From: bob allen 
>   To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com 
>   Sent: Friday, April 23, 2004 8:51 AM
>   Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: OT: Worldwide Publicly Traded Sustainable 
> Technology or Conservation Investments
> 
> 
>   actually Art, the  winds do blow from east to west across the Atlantic 
>   at least at the latitude which carries dust from the Sahara to the 
>   Caribbean and northeast South America.  Think Atlantic hurricanes which

Re: [biofuel] Deserts - was Re: OT: Worldwide Publicly Traded Sustainable Technology ...

2004-04-24 Thread desertstallion


Hi Hakan,

I hadn't read that one yet. Thank you.

I guess 'time will tell!' Certainly fossil fuels are a finite resource and we 
are going through them faster and faster. I guess, how soon they will be 
depleted depends a bit upon how optimistic one is and how far one wants to push 
the 'assumptions' in the studies.

As has been discussed here before...it really reminds one of a drug addiction. 
Use more and more until the ultimate crash. Whereas with bit of foresight and 
planning, the changeover to a more conservative, frugal lifestyle, and 
utilization of alternatives to fossil fuels could be managed for a soft detox.

Regards,

Derek


> 
> Derek,
> 
> I was just reading the ASPO news letter,
> 
> http://www.peakoil.net/Newsletter/NL40/newsletter40.pdf
> 
> Interesting and it is not as optimistic as you on production
> and reserves.
> 
> Hakan
> 
>


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Re: [biofuel] Deserts - was Re: OT: Worldwide Publicly Traded Sustainable Technology ...

2004-04-23 Thread desertstallion

Hi Hakan,

I tend to agree with you. And, it was certainly an eye opener when Shell 
admitted that it has been overstating its reserves for years. Yes, one must 
wonder how many of the other companies have been doing likewise. Still, I am 
not as sure as you that we are at the end...yet. For example, although I can't 
put my finger on the quote right now, the largest oil company in the world says 
something to the effect that it can continue to pump 10 million barrels per day 
for the next 92 years. I believe Iraq is number two in proven reserves. 
Eventually it will get back on line. If they can produce anywhere close to what 
Saudi can, then we have a bit of a respite. Then, there are the lesser players. 
The US continues to produce around eight million barrels per day. Isn't Russia 
the current number two producer? Regardless, I do think that production will 
have leveled off close to current levels, and as consumption increases...as it 
is forecast to do...things could get tight. The difference should be made up 
with conservation and alternatives. Eventually, I would surmise that oil 
production will fall off and the alternatives will progressively become a 
bigger part of the pie, assisted to no small degree by conservation. It would 
be nice to think this might happen in a somewhat controlled manner. I fear that 
it won't. Rather, consumption of crude will continue to grow instead of 
leveling and slowly falling, with the consequence that the world will 
progressively become more dependent upon crude, not less, until we arrive at a 
crunch.

Crunches tend not to be pretty.

Derek

> 
> Derek,
> 
> This has already ended and that is why you see the higher oil prices, 
> despite efforts to lower the price. The reason is that we probably do not 
> have the production margins needed to effect the price. Could also be a 
> reason why US are buying to the national storage, without even trying to 
> minimize the cost.
> 
> It is a general consensus now, that we are at the global peak of oil 
> production, give and take a few points, and if so, it is not space for the 
> growth you are talking about. If this is the case, the possibilities for 
> the traditional price manipulation have been greatly reduced. We do not 
> really know if the current cuts of oil production from OPEC is real 
> decisions or governed by production capacity. The cuts are against their 
> earlier policy of the price range below $29/barrel, with current prices 
> around $36/barrel. It might be a charade, to avoid to admit that they are 
> at the production peak, who knows.
> 
> In any case, I do not expect that you will see the global production grow 
> without any pauses. This because the faltering production from Iraq is 
> probably taking the resources from the swing producers already. It will 
> take too long for Iraq to resume oil production, to effect the oil price.
> 
> We do not have a clear picture and it is in the governments interest to 
> keep it that way, as long as possible.  The truth could 
> destabilize  economies, create violence and disturb current world order. 
> They start to discover that the oil companies have reported larger reserves 
> than they actually have and heads are rolling. 25% misrepresentation is a 
> lot for one of the largest companies. I would not be surprised, if we will 
> find that it is a general practice in the other oil giants too.
> 
> Hakan
> 
> 
> At 11:20 23/04/2004, you wrote:
> >
> >My personal ideals are much more in line with minimal disturbance of the 
> >natural environment. Minimal use of energy. I note though that despite all 
> >of the conservation efforts and alternative energy production the global 
> >use of petroleum is edging towards 80 million barrels a day. And, it seems 
> >to continue to grow in the West despite the fact that the economies have 
> >been in a stalemate. If the economy of North America and Europe were 
> >booming, one might anticipate that the energy use would be even higher. As 
> >the Asian economies continue to grow and their demand for petroleum 
> >continues to swell, added to the increased demand in the West as their 
> >economies finally get going, I can only anticipate that the global figure 
> >will pass the 80 million mark without much of a pause.
> >
> >Where, how and when is it going to end?
> >
> >Derek
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> 
> Biofuels list archives:
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> 
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Re: [biofuel] Re: OT: Worldwide Publicly Traded Sustainable Technology or Conservation Investments

2004-04-23 Thread desertstallion


Hi,

I vaguely recall reading that a lot of the nutrients for the Amazon are carried 
by wind from the Sahara. Although a lot of the desert is 'just' sand, most of 
it has plenty of soil. If given a bit of water it blooms. It is amazing what 
all pops up once there is a bit of rain.

I think we basically agree on the best way to grow food, etc. But, I don't 
think Brian's suggestion of investing in desert land and adapting it to future 
energy production is without merit either. Certainly I don't think it should be 
discounted out of hand as a worthless idea.

Regards,

Derek


> Derek,
> 
> All the energy fuss doesn't cut ice.  If it isn't sustainable, what is it?  
> An 
> experiment?
> 
> How much of your wheat is grown using water produced by reverse osmosis?  
> Would 
> this be possible if the Saudi Arabian economy were not sustained by the sales 
> of 
> oil to the rest of the world?  Try the energy experience in the Sudan economy 
> perhaps or Yeman and see how far it goes.
> 
> The biggest places that are exporting food today have natural water and soil. 
>  
> These has been the traditional basis for food production since the beginning 
> of 
> time.  Not energy alone.  Energy helps but if you have nothing to eat, all 
> the 
> energy in the world doesn't do you a bit of good.
> 
> You don't farm in a desert because there is insufficient water or organic 
> matter 
> in the sand to make the system work.  Hydroponics does not compare with soil 
> produced food in quality or cost.  As an experiment, it might work fine but 
> to 
> produce food for 4 billion people it quickly fails.
> 
> The problem with viewing the problem from only an energy standpoint is the 
> saying, "to a man with a hammer, the whole world looks like a nail".  
> Sustainability should be the watchword.
> 
> Art
>   - Original Message - 
>   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>   To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com 
>   Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2004 8:23 AM
>   Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: OT: Worldwide Publicly Traded Sustainable 
> Technology or Conservation Investments
> 
> 
>   Hi,
> 
>   Unlimited energy leads to all other needs. The most essential raw product 
> is 
> energy. Once one has energy they can recycle water, make water, grow food in 
> all 
> sorts of ways, etc. I've lived in the desert for ten years. It was an eye 
> opener 
> to realize how dependent life in the desert is on energy, and how everything 
> else pales. I live in Saudi...number one in the world at making potable water 
> from the sea. They grow enough wheat to meet their own needs, and export the 
> excess. Life is dependent on energy like nowhere else.
> 
>   Please don't misunderstand me. I am not advocating this. I don't consider 
> much 
> this to be sustainable. But, I don't think it is wise to minimize the 
> importance 
> of energy as the fundamental building block under everything else.
> 
>   In the desert, it would be easily possible to harvest 50% of the incident 
> light for electricity production and to farm with the remaining light. Brian 
> is 
> right on. The future energy production for the world could well come from 
> worthless deserts, with a top layer of Photovoltaics and vast farms under the 
> light collectors. The energy could possibly be exported by either microwaves 
> or 
> hydrogen pipelines.
> 
>   Regards,
> 
>   Derek
> 
> 
>   > Brian,
>   > 
>   > Before you invest in "worthless" desert islands, you better make sure you 
> can 
>   > raise food on that island.  Energy alone, whether hydrogen or 
> electricity, 
> makes 
>   > a poor meal even for an energy guru.
>   > 
>   > Art Krenzel, P.E.
>   > PHOENIX TECHNOLOGIES
>   > 10505 NE 285TH Street
>   > Battle Ground, WA 98604
>   > 360-666-1883 voice
>   > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>


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Re: [biofuel] Deserts - was Re: OT: Worldwide Publicly Traded Sustainable Technology ...

2004-04-23 Thread desertstallion


Hi Keith,

Thanks for all the information. It will give me a lot to read through. I 
appreciate your efforts to give me and the list the pointers.

I totally agree that deserts or not really deserted and certainly not 
worthless. The word choice was a carryover from the other previous poster's 
post. I am constantly amazed at the quantity and diversity of life that I find 
in the desert.

I also appreciate that the lifestyle of large cities built in the desert and 
dependent upon vast amounts of energy expenditure to keep them going is less 
than ideal. Our home here has two huge air conditioners which run constantly in 
the summer. The house is provided for us. It wouldn't be my option if I were to 
actually purchase and own. I've replaced all the bulbs with CFs at my own 
expense, and do what I can to minimize, but fear that these efforts are far 
less than adequate in the face of the air conditioning and refrigeration 
demands of leading a Western lifestyle in this environment. Certainly they 
could have done a lot better job of insulating, etc.

Also, as I stated in my second paragraph, I do not advocate what I see. For a 
long time electricity was almost given away here as a byproduct of water 
production from the desalination plants. They are cogeneration plants whose 
primary product is water. Electricity is the byproduct. The primary energy 
source is natural gas. Cheap electricity has led to a lot of abuses.

My goal in the post was to point out that the one previous posters idea of life 
on a desert island with only energy might not be as impossible as he indicated. 
It is common in Saudi to grow vegetables in long huts made out of translucent 
plastic. The light intensity is thusly cut down to about half. One end of the 
hut has a water drip panal for evaporative cooling. The other end of the hut 
has a fan to extract the air, which at the same time sucks cool air in through 
the drip panal. It appears to work fairly well, but there is the expense of 
constantly running the fans. They also have the world's largest dairy here 
although I am sure that it is more in lines with what you have discussed as 
industrialized farming.

Although it is far removed from your ideals of dispersed energy production, it 
is at least possible that large scale energy production could be made with PV 
panels spaced so as to utilize about half of the incident light. The other half 
could pass through and be used underneath for agriculture. Wind generators 
could be poked through the PV canapy and add to the energy production. I think 
it would be preferable to some of the Sci Fi plans for space based solar 
collectors microwaving energy to the surface.

My personal ideals are much more in line with minimal disturbance of the 
natural environment. Minimal use of energy. I note though that despite all of 
the conservation efforts and alternative energy production the global use of 
petroleum is edging towards 80 million barrels a day. And, it seems to continue 
to grow in the West despite the fact that the economies have been in a 
stalemate. If the economy of North America and Europe were booming, one might 
anticipate that the energy use would be even higher. As the Asian economies 
continue to grow and their demand for petroleum continues to swell, added to 
the increased demand in the West as their economies finally get going, I can 
only anticipate that the global figure will pass the 80 million mark without 
much of a pause.

Where, how and when is it going to end?

Derek


> Hi Derek and all
> 
> There are woodlands in the Wahiba Sands Desert of Oman, where 
> communities of Prosopis cineraria and Acacia tortilis trees survive 
> with little or no rainfall. This species of Prosopis yields useful 
> timber and excellent firewood, the leaves make nutritious fodder for 
> livestock, the pods are good fodder and also serve as a vegetable for 
> humans, the flowers support honey production, and the bark can be 
> used in leather tanning and yields an edible gum - all on less then 
> 75mm (2 inches) of rain and an eight-month dry season.
> 
> Prosopis cineraria also thrives in the Thar Desert in North West 
> India. In Rajasthan and Pakistan it has been the mainstay of the 
> local economies for thousands of years. This is one of the great 
> traditional agroforestry systems of the world. The people totally 
> rely on the Prosopis tree: they lop it for fodder, they eat the pods, 
> they interplant other crops with it. It tolerates incredibly dry 
> conditions. However, very little has been done to conserve it, and it 
> is threatened by over-population. There is tremendous scope to 
> conserve, investigate and improve the tree, and to extend its use. 
> Researchers have travelled throughout the range of Prosopis cineraria 
> in India, often travelling by camel or donkey. They collected 33 of 
> the most widely different types of the species.
> 
> These varieties have been shared with Oman, and the Omani varieties 
>

Re: [biofuel] Re: OT: Worldwide Publicly Traded Sustainable Technology or Conservation Investments

2004-04-22 Thread desertstallion

Hi,

Unlimited energy leads to all other needs. The most essential raw product is 
energy. Once one has energy they can recycle water, make water, grow food in 
all sorts of ways, etc. I've lived in the desert for ten years. It was an eye 
opener to realize how dependent life in the desert is on energy, and how 
everything else pales. I live in Saudi...number one in the world at making 
potable water from the sea. They grow enough wheat to meet their own needs, and 
export the excess. Life is dependent on energy like nowhere else.

Please don't misunderstand me. I am not advocating this. I don't consider much 
this to be sustainable. But, I don't think it is wise to minimize the 
importance of energy as the fundamental building block under everything else.

In the desert, it would be easily possible to harvest 50% of the incident light 
for electricity production and to farm with the remaining light. Brian is right 
on. The future energy production for the world could well come from worthless 
deserts, with a top layer of Photovoltaics and vast farms under the light 
collectors. The energy could possibly be exported by either microwaves or 
hydrogen pipelines.

Regards,

Derek

> Brian,
> 
> Before you invest in "worthless" desert islands, you better make sure you can 
> raise food on that island.  Energy alone, whether hydrogen or electricity, 
> makes 
> a poor meal even for an energy guru.
> 
> Art Krenzel, P.E.
> PHOENIX TECHNOLOGIES
> 10505 NE 285TH Street
> Battle Ground, WA 98604
> 360-666-1883 voice
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>   - Original Message - 
>   From: Brian 
>   To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com 
>   Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 7:01 PM
>   Subject: [biofuel] Re: OT: Worldwide Publicly Traded Sustainable Technology 
> or 
> Conservation Investments
> 
> 
>   If I had real money to invest, I'd be buying up "worthless" desert 
>   land.  Between solar and wind technology, there is enough energy 
>   being wasted in the desert to do quite a bit of hydrogen conversion 
>   for fuel cell cars, if this technology ever goes anywhere.  At least 
>   that's my bright idea of the past year or so.
> 
>   Brian
> 
>   --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, murdoch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>   > Does anyone here have any ideas for investments in stocks 
>   (anywhere in
>   > the world... does *not* have to be North America) that have a good
>   > sustainable technology or energy technology or conservation 
>   angle?  
>   > 
>   > I am working on a project to collect and refine some ideas in this
>   > area, and there are a couple of roadblocks I've run into.
>   > 
>   > For example, I was trying to think of a way, any way at all, to 
>   invest
>   > in the idea of energy conservation in the general realm of
>   > locally-grown locally-consumed low-input high-output foods.  But 
>   how
>   > to do this?  
>   > 
>   > I started tossing around the idea of Whole Foods (WFMI on yahoo 
>   U.S.
>   > stock boards) just because on balance one might end up shopping 
>   there
>   > for foods that have been grown according to 'some' conservationist
>   > principles, lower Petroleum input, etc.  If one buys eggs produced
>   > from range fed chickens, at least that's something.
>   > 
>   > But putting aside that dissatisfying compromise, if anyone has any
>   > ideas,  including 'outside the box' ideas of companies you've 
>   seen
>   > practicing or selling some offbeat sustainable idea or product, .. 
>   I'd
>   > be curious to hear it.

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Re: [biofuel] OT: Worldwide Publicly Traded Sustainable Technology or Conservation Investments

2004-04-22 Thread desertstallion


Hi,

I like CPST. They make microturbines for the local production of electricity 
from a variety of fuels including biofuels. Sustainable, local production of 
electricity close to the end user.

Regards,

Derek


> Does anyone here have any ideas for investments in stocks (anywhere in
> the world... does *not* have to be North America) that have a good
> sustainable technology or energy technology or conservation angle?  


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Re: [biofuel] Gas Prices Reach Record Highs

2004-03-10 Thread desertstallion


Hi,

You might find that higher cost of fossil fuel will promote the development of 
oil fields in areas that are now considered too environmentally sensitive. I 
would prefer that the cost of fossil fuels stays below the threshold to develop 
these more expensive fields. But, I would like to see the expense of 
alternative fuels to continue to drop so that they make fossil fuels relatively 
more expensive than they currently are. I would also like to see more 
transparency in the subsidies of fossil fuels, so that some of the arguments 
that alternative fuels are more expensive would be counteracted.

Regards,

Derek
> Let the gas prices go through the roof. As much as it will hurt it will also
> kick in the needed development for alternates. The low cost of fuel is the
> thing causing our US stagnation in development.
> 
> Lillie
> 


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Re: [biofuel] opinions on US energy situation? (was Alaska etc.)

2003-12-27 Thread desertstallion


Hi,

Although I agree that the US doesn't seem to be making much headway towards 
improvements in the energy situation, I think you are too pessimistic 
relative to the 'way out.'

I believe the means are available. It is just a matter of bringing attention 
to the problem. Of having the political will at the top, and of having 
awareness of the problem in the population. I really don't think the average 
person has gotten the message that there is a problem. Maybe they have been 
told too many lies through the ages and they say, 'but, the cost is the 
same.' They won't believe it until the cost of NG, or oil, or electricity, or 
whatever goes up. I sincerely don't believe the common man perceives a 
problem when he can get gasoline for a little more than a dollar a gallon. 
So...it is more comfortable and convenient to drive a large vehicle...and he 
does.

Jimmy Carter was able to turn the US around towards Solar and so forth during 
his administration when we had that fuel crisis. Then, the crisis went away, 
and so did the changes that had been implemented. If the awareness is there, 
we can have the put out the bonfire mentality and go for it, probably 
successfully, although it isn't the best way to correct a problem. When the 
US was focused on going to the moon by Kennedy, they got down to work and 
they did it. It is a matter of focus and political will.

I also feel that the answer to the energy 'problem' is right here on this 
biofuels list and the discussions of various biofuels. First, conservation. 
There is a tremendous amount of energy savings available through conservation 
with relatively little impact on US quality of life. Some are already in use 
in the country and just need to be expanded. Others are already in use in 
other countries and just need to be borrowed. Flourescent lighting, compact 
flourescents as retrofits, LED lighting, better insulation of buildings, co-
gen projects, etc. On the energy supply side, we can substitute biodiesel, 
SVO/WVO into diesel engines, both stationary and in transport applications. 
Ethanol can be used in spark ignition engines. Space heating is a huge energy 
user and I see corn burning and other biomass burning as a big solution to 
this problem. See http://burncorn.net/ I really don't see any need for space 
heating to come from any other source than the burning of waste biomass or 
renewables such as corn. Wind and solar can be expanded.

The means are available. The will is not.

I think the people are getting the message, albeit slowly. I think that there 
will be change to a more sustainable future regardless of what the political 
industrial complex want. The word of a better way is getting out...through 
the Internet, etc. There is a basic ground swell of change in progress that 
eventually the politicians will need to answer to.

One thing I see as essential will be a lowering of the cost of alternative 
energies. I know it is often discussed that it would be advantageous to raise 
the cost of fossil energy to the level of alternatives to make the 
alternatives more attractive. My fear along these lines is that as the price 
of crude goes up, fields that currently are not economically viable, or are 
too environmentally sensitive, will become economically and politically 
viable. We might see a lot more environmental destruction as areas are 
exploited that currently wouldn't be acceptable. So...I would like to see the 
price of energy go up to encourage savings as mentioned in the first 
paragraph, but am concerned that if this is too great, we could see 
accelerated and more wanton destruction of the environment in the pursuit of 
fossil fuels. Hopefully the cost of alternatives will cap the cost in such a 
way that they cost of fossil fuels will not go to a level that these hard to 
exploit fields will be opened.

Derek

> 
> Hi Robert,
> 
> US have both capacity and shown in the past that things can happen quickly, 
> but this time it will be very difficult. It would need a regime change and 
> not only that, the new regime would need to understand what has to be done. 
> It is too serious to be subject to the normal lobbying, corporate and 
> political interests. I am not that optimistic about US, at least not 
> without very serious harm have been done to US and the world. This is maybe 
> the most serious draw back of democracies. It is difficult to get painful 
> cures in place and people are often told that the problems are less than 
> they are.
> 
> I think that you are right, it need fundamental changes and the signs are 
> not good. It is many things that can be done better, but the search for a 
> golden bullet is very damaging. US starts to be a victim of its own 
> propaganda. I said once on the list that US was a technology leader, 
> without thinking too much, I am also in some instances falling for it. The 

> list immediately and rightfully corrected me, US is not a leader in 
> innovations and has never been. The da

Re: [biofuel] What's the true story on ethanol?

2003-12-17 Thread desertstallion


Alex,

Although, in general, I prefer Diesel engines and either biodiesel or SVO/WVO 
over ethanol and spark ignition engines, one must admit that in the case of 
Brazil the best solution over all has probably been ethanol given the huge 
amounts of sugarcane they had available to them. In your case, Canada, you 
have lots and lots of Canola, and would prefer that. It all has to be looked 
at relative to the local environment.

Cheers,

Derek
> To me the question is -  was ethanol the best way for Brazil  to solve 
> the fuel problem?
> The same question can be applied to many discussions on this list.
> Yes, there are many ways of making the fuel - but why to choose curved 
> line over the straight line?
> I think we always have to try to approach straight line as much as 
> possible in our decision making.
> Right now I'm convinced that straight line is a diesel on SWO approach.
> It took me some time to figure it out - at first I was a proponent of 
> ethanol, then steam, then Bio-diesel, and only now I realized
> that SWO + diesel is an ideal combination. What is most appealing to me 
> is the fact that  SWO can be bought anywhere,
> from a local farmer shed to a corner variety store. Also it can be grown 
> locally and easy to process - basically Canola
> just needs to be crashed and filtered. Efficiency in a diesel is quite 
> high ~ 40 %, plus it can be used in a burner for heat!
> Getting back to Brazil - just want to make the record straight. For some 

> reason in these discussions it is perceived that Brazil
> is next thing to the Garden of Eden because it is making lots of 
> Ethanol. Yet it could be doing 10 times better if it produced
> SWO instead for driving and used diesel as a main engine. In general 
> Brazil has a tremendous level of poverty among its
> population. It also systematically destroys Amazon forest.
> Sorry - Brazil is not ny model of paradise.
> Alex
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keith Addison wrote:
> 
> >>Some comments:
> >>
> >>Keith Addison wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> It seems to me that SVO is a better solution then ethanol.
> Why?- Because it is easy to make and easy to get, license free.
> One really doesn't have to make  a"plant" for it - it is very safe too!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >>>Alex, we need MORE biofuels options, not less. Anyway in practise it
> >>>doesn't make good sense to say one proven technology is necessarily
> >>>better than another, it depends on the particular circumstances. The

> >>>"best technology" approach usually ends up with the problem being
> >>>fitted to the solution, whether it fits well or not, instead of the
> >>>other way round. Then come all the so-called "unexpected
> >>>side-effects", and the net result is too often just the opposite of
> >>>what was intended.
> >>>
> >>>  
> >>>
> >>>I agree - I'm just talking as an Ontario resident, here we really 
> >>>  
> >>>
> >>can use more sun, but we got
> >>
> >>
> >> lots of productive land and decent hard - working people.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>  
> >>>
> Lets suppose for a minute that diesel engine could run on SVO without
> any mods.
> Will we need diesel fuel or biodiesel ? - No.
> Why not to put pressure on manufacturers in this case to make diesel
> engines which can run on SVO without any mods?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >>>This is what it says at the "TDI-SVO controversy" page at Journey to
> >>>Forever, and I've often said so here, and so have others:
> >>>

> >>>"... But in establishing what works and what doesn't work, some are
> >>>likely to be left with the remains of what didn't work. They'll be
> >>>heroes in the cause of real straight vegetable oil diesel motors,
> >>>that anyone can use, not just enthusiasts -- manufacturer-made,
> >>>supplied and warranted diesels that can run on petro-diesel,
> >>>biodiesel or straight vegetable oil, in any blend, without any
> >>>fuel-switching or fuss: fill 'er up, switch on and go, stop and
> >>>switch off, like any other car. Currently only the Elsbett system
> >>>does that."
> >>>http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_TDI.html
> >>>
> >>>It's one reason we promote SVO use. The more people use SVO, no
> >>>matter what system or method they use, the more it's likely to dawn
> >>>on the manufacturers that there's a demand for SVO diesels. Biodiesel
> >>>would then have been a transitional fuel, though it will continue to
> >>>be used for decades in the very many long-lasting diesels around the

> >>>world made before any shift by manufacturers to full SVO capability.
> >>>
> >>>  
> >>>
> >>This is a very reasonable approach.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>>  
> >>>
> Brazil, with its warm climate , should  switch to SVO or  Turpentine!
> instead.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >>>Not so, they've established a sound, effective and sustainable system
> >>>of producing large amounts of fuel ethanol, you'd want them to
> >>>abandon it for no very clear

Re: [biofuel] Bridging UPSs or inverters

2003-11-14 Thread desertstallion


Hi,

I believe you need some sort of master controller to keep them in sync - 
otherwise, I believe, they will drift out of sync over time.

Derek
> This may be a bit off topic, but I have an inverter question:
> 
> I have a couple of APC SmartUps's (computer uninterruptible power 
> supply). I was wondering if the output of these can be linked in 
> parallel (assuming correct polarity and initially sync'ed to grid 
> frequency) to add additional capacity. The reason for this is that 
> they can be had relatively cheap compared to a Trace inverter.
> 
> My hope is to place them between my bio-diesel co-generator (heats 
> the house too) to 1) condition the power and 2) run the house on 
> batteries during low current demand periods.
> 
> I know Trace and some other solar inverters can by bridged together, 
> but how about a UPS? Anyone know if it can be done?
> 
> Thanks in advance!
> 
> Eric
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> 
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[biofuels-biz] Biodiesel Test - Municipal Fleet - Spain - EHN

2003-11-04 Thread desertstallion


I donât believe anyone has posted this item concerning a study of biodiesel 
in municipal garbage collection trucks and buses.

Derek

http://www.ehn.es/eng/textos/noticia20030912.html
 
 Press releases  
 
EHN and the Mancomunidad de Pamplona will 
incorporate biodiesel into public transport services 

--
--


A bus and a garbage collection truck will use this biofuel and the results 
will be compared against two similar vehicles of the Mancomunidad (Area 
Services Board) that use diesel. 

EHN will analyse the influence of biodiesel on the performance of the engines 
and polluting emissions 

The aim is to extend the use of biofuel to the entityâs entire fleet (165 
vehicles) 
12 September 2003 

Corporacin Energa Hidroelctrica de Navarra, S.A. (EHN) and the 
Mancomunidad de la Comarca of Pamplona have today signed a collaboration 
agreement to set up the experimental use of biodiesel (a clean fuel to 
replace ordinary diesel) in public service buses and garbage collection 
trucks, with a view to its future use in the Area Services Board's entire 
fleet (165 vehicles). EHN will produce the biodiesel and will carry out a 
pioneer study in the area in Spain. The Mancomunidad will provide four 
vehicles: two of them öa bus and a garbage truck- use this biofuel and 
another two öidentical vehicles- conventional diesel, the idea being to 
analyse the influence of bioidiesel on the performance of the engines and on 
polluting emissions. 

The agreement was signed this morning by Fermn Gembero, General Manager of 
EHN, and Javier Iturbe, Presidente of the Mancomunidad de la Comarca de 
Pamplona. Trials will begin in October and will continue for one year 

By virtue of the agreement, the renewables company EHN will provide the Area 
Services Board with the biodiesel necessary for its use ö8,000 litres per 
month, with the quality required by European Standard EN 14214-, that will be 
produced in the experimental laboratory in Sangesa, next to the biomass 
plant of EHN. 

The use of biodiesel will not represent any extra cost to the Mancomunidad in 
relation to conventional diesel fuel. 

EHN has also provided the tanks and pumps required to supply the vehciles in 
the installations that the Mancomunidad has in the Cuidad del Transporte 
(trucks) and Ezcaba (buses). 

100% biodiesel and a mixture 

The vehicles provided by the Area Services Board will be two buses on the 
Rochapea-Old Part route and two garbage collection trucks based in the suburb 
of Mendebaldea and in the town of Barain. One of the buses will use 100% 
biodisel without mixing it with diesel, and one of the trucks will us a 30% 
mixture. The other two vehicles will only use diesel fuel and will be used 
for comparative purposes under similar operating conditions. 

Public transport users will not notice any changes in the services provided. 

Clean fuel 

Biodiesel is a clean fuel, an alternative to diesel produced from local and 
renewable resources, with major environmental and socio-economic advantages 
over fossil fuels. 

Obtained from vegetable oilss ö mainly from sunflower, rapeseed or soya, or 
animal fats ö biodiesel considerably reduces contaminating gas emissions 
produced by diesel fuel. It is renewable because its origins are 
agricultural, it reduces energy dependence on oil in the sector (currently 
above 98%) and is means of creating employment in rural areas in the future. 

The study promoted by EHN and the Area Services Board is one of the first 

The influence of biodiesel on engine performance is also studied. This fuel 
can be used by current diesel engines öpure or mixed in any proportion- 
without any modification, and prolongs their working life thanks to the 
higher power produced. 

In line with Europe 

With around 40% of the total, transport is the biggest emitter of greenhouse 
gases to the atmosphere ömainly CO2-, that cause global warming and climate 
change. 

The use of biofuels ö biodiesel and bioethanol- is one of the main measures 
promoted on an international level to reduce atmospheric contamination from 
road transport, with the aim of increasing its environmental sustainability. 

The European Union, en its Directive of 8 May on the promotion of the use of 
biofuel, sets the objective that this should represent 2% of the total 
consumption in the sector by 2005 (the figure is currently below 0.5%) and 
75% en 2010. 

EHN, one of the main developers of wind power in the world and a player in 
the fields of biomass, hydroelectric power and solar energy, has incorporated 
biofuel into its range of activities. 

In addition to the experimental laboratory in Sangesa, with an annual 
production capacity of 300 tonnes, the company is building a plant in 
Caparroso to produce 35,000 tonnes of biodiesel fuel per year and it will be 
operational in 2004. The investment is over 16 million euros.

[biofuel] Biodiesel Test - Municipal Fleet - Spain - EHN

2003-11-04 Thread desertstallion


I donât believe anyone has posted this item concerning a study of biodiesel 
in municipal garbage collection trucks and buses.

Derek

http://www.ehn.es/eng/textos/noticia20030912.html
 
 Press releases  
 
EHN and the Mancomunidad de Pamplona will 
incorporate biodiesel into public transport services 

--
--


A bus and a garbage collection truck will use this biofuel and the results 
will be compared against two similar vehicles of the Mancomunidad (Area 
Services Board) that use diesel. 

EHN will analyse the influence of biodiesel on the performance of the engines 
and polluting emissions 

The aim is to extend the use of biofuel to the entityâs entire fleet (165 
vehicles) 
12 September 2003 

Corporacin Energa Hidroelctrica de Navarra, S.A. (EHN) and the 
Mancomunidad de la Comarca of Pamplona have today signed a collaboration 
agreement to set up the experimental use of biodiesel (a clean fuel to 
replace ordinary diesel) in public service buses and garbage collection 
trucks, with a view to its future use in the Area Services Board's entire 
fleet (165 vehicles). EHN will produce the biodiesel and will carry out a 
pioneer study in the area in Spain. The Mancomunidad will provide four 
vehicles: two of them öa bus and a garbage truck- use this biofuel and 
another two öidentical vehicles- conventional diesel, the idea being to 
analyse the influence of bioidiesel on the performance of the engines and on 
polluting emissions. 

The agreement was signed this morning by Fermn Gembero, General Manager of 
EHN, and Javier Iturbe, Presidente of the Mancomunidad de la Comarca de 
Pamplona. Trials will begin in October and will continue for one year 

By virtue of the agreement, the renewables company EHN will provide the Area 
Services Board with the biodiesel necessary for its use ö8,000 litres per 
month, with the quality required by European Standard EN 14214-, that will be 
produced in the experimental laboratory in Sangesa, next to the biomass 
plant of EHN. 

The use of biodiesel will not represent any extra cost to the Mancomunidad in 
relation to conventional diesel fuel. 

EHN has also provided the tanks and pumps required to supply the vehciles in 
the installations that the Mancomunidad has in the Cuidad del Transporte 
(trucks) and Ezcaba (buses). 

100% biodiesel and a mixture 

The vehicles provided by the Area Services Board will be two buses on the 
Rochapea-Old Part route and two garbage collection trucks based in the suburb 
of Mendebaldea and in the town of Barain. One of the buses will use 100% 
biodisel without mixing it with diesel, and one of the trucks will us a 30% 
mixture. The other two vehicles will only use diesel fuel and will be used 
for comparative purposes under similar operating conditions. 

Public transport users will not notice any changes in the services provided. 

Clean fuel 

Biodiesel is a clean fuel, an alternative to diesel produced from local and 
renewable resources, with major environmental and socio-economic advantages 
over fossil fuels. 

Obtained from vegetable oilss ö mainly from sunflower, rapeseed or soya, or 
animal fats ö biodiesel considerably reduces contaminating gas emissions 
produced by diesel fuel. It is renewable because its origins are 
agricultural, it reduces energy dependence on oil in the sector (currently 
above 98%) and is means of creating employment in rural areas in the future. 

The study promoted by EHN and the Area Services Board is one of the first 

The influence of biodiesel on engine performance is also studied. This fuel 
can be used by current diesel engines öpure or mixed in any proportion- 
without any modification, and prolongs their working life thanks to the 
higher power produced. 

In line with Europe 

With around 40% of the total, transport is the biggest emitter of greenhouse 
gases to the atmosphere ömainly CO2-, that cause global warming and climate 
change. 

The use of biofuels ö biodiesel and bioethanol- is one of the main measures 
promoted on an international level to reduce atmospheric contamination from 
road transport, with the aim of increasing its environmental sustainability. 

The European Union, en its Directive of 8 May on the promotion of the use of 
biofuel, sets the objective that this should represent 2% of the total 
consumption in the sector by 2005 (the figure is currently below 0.5%) and 
75% en 2010. 

EHN, one of the main developers of wind power in the world and a player in 
the fields of biomass, hydroelectric power and solar energy, has incorporated 
biofuel into its range of activities. 

In addition to the experimental laboratory in Sangesa, with an annual 
production capacity of 300 tonnes, the company is building a plant in 
Caparroso to produce 35,000 tonnes of biodiesel fuel per year and it will be 
operational in 2004. The investment is over 16 million euros. 
 
 
 

 Y

Re: [biofuel] Coolant Heating


Hi Aidan,

Maybe on some others vehicles the coolant would be cut off when the heater is 
turned off? If you've checked it out, and you don't have the coolant cut off, 
then I would say, go with the easiest connection - but, I haven't done it - 
so, as I said, I'm no expert to go by.

Derek

> Derek,
> 
> That is definitely a very valid concern, but according to the VW repair 
> manual even when you shut off the head the coolant still flows through the 
> heater core.  Hooking it up in series would have no effect on the flow or 
> heater 
> core (other than a little less heat).
> 
> Aidan 
> 
>   - Original Message - 
>   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>   To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com 
>   Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 11:16 PM
>   Subject: Re: [biofuel] Coolant Heating
> 
> 
>   Hi,
> 
>   I'm no expert, but it sounds like your talking of connecting in 
> series...so, 
>   what happens if you turn off the heat. Doesn't the flow get cut off, too? 
>   Whereas if they are connected in parallel, as it sounds like you say they 
>   recommend, the flow to the tank would be independent of the flow through 
> the 
>   car's heater core.
> 
>   Derek
> 
>   > Hello,
>   > 
>   > I have a quick question for all the experts in the group.  I am in 
> the 
>   > design phase of my SVO conversion for a 90 Jetta diesel.  I intend to use 
> a 
>   > coolant/electric hybrid heating system.  The only thing I have not worked 
> out is 
>   > why all the systems I have seen use a "T" connection to the interior 
> heater 
>   > lines.  Wouldn't more heat be used to heat the WVO if the coolant was 
> sent 
>   > straight from the engine to the tank and back.  Then through the interior 
> heater 
>   > core before returning to the engine? or is there a reason all the 
> system's I 
>   > have seen use a "T" connection for the coolant lines running to the WVO 
> tank?
>   > 
>   > I look forward to your replies.
>   > 
>   > 
>   > Aidan Wilkins
>   > 
>   > 
>   > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>   > 
>   > 
>   > 
>   > Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
>   > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>   > 
>   > Biofuels list archives:
>   > http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel
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>   > 
> 
> 
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[biofuel] Grass biomass as fuel


Hi,

If you're interested in biomass, and can read Spanish, try a Google 
on 'biomasa' and 'Sanguesa'. They have just brought on line a biomass plant 
that burns straw/hay to produce electricity. It sounds very promising. That 
area of Spain in the foothills of the Pyrenees has a lot of pasture land 
where they graze a lot of sheep/horses/cattle, and they also produce a lot of 
hay. I think the land slopes too much for growing much else. And they produce 
a lot more hay than they can use to carry the animals through the winter. Now 
the farmers have an additional saleable product, it can be burned CO2 
neutral, is renewable, has a short growth cycle, and supports the local 
economy. It sounds like a winner. Maybe something similar to this could be 
used in the praries with their vast grasslands?

It seems to me that burning biomass as a biofuel should be more efficient as 
it doesn't have to be fermented, or pressed, or anything much. Of course, 
liquid fuels have their place as a transport fuel, but for stationary power, 
I would guess that biomass would have the advantage of less need for 
manipulation.

Derek

> http://www.covantaenergy.com/energy/biomass.php4
> 
> As I said a few months ago, I ran across this wood-biomass-to-electricity 
> plant
> north of Sacramento this summer and was told by one local how clean it was, 
> and
> how it allowed homeowners to have an option for clearing their land of some 
> wood
> not-suitable-for-firewood-or-building.  Later I learned that this was a few
> years old, but still, it seems relatively obscure.
> 
> As Southern California and Denver and others now belatedly search for a better
> forest and fire policy, what I'd love to see is not so much any one measure 
> as a
> "cure-all" but use of measures such as this in limited moderate ways, to help
> communities not only do a better job with fire prevention and mitigation, but
> also to generate power and make money.
> 
> other links of interest that came up:
> 
> http://www.calbiomass.org/county.htm
> 
> (San Diego, San Bernadino, Orange, Los Angeles Counties not listed!  Riverside
> has only one entry.  These are the five disaster-area counties of the recent
> fires.  If I'm not mistaken, San Bernadino is the single biggest county in the
> US or the lower 48.  Much of it is desert, though certainly not all of it.)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> 
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> http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel
> 
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Re: [biofuel] Coolant Heating


Hi,

I'm no expert, but it sounds like your talking of connecting in series...so, 
what happens if you turn off the heat. Doesn't the flow get cut off, too? 
Whereas if they are connected in parallel, as it sounds like you say they 
recommend, the flow to the tank would be independent of the flow through the 
car's heater core.

Derek

> Hello,
> 
> I have a quick question for all the experts in the group.  I am in the 
> design phase of my SVO conversion for a 90 Jetta diesel.  I intend to use a 
> coolant/electric hybrid heating system.  The only thing I have not worked out 
> is 
> why all the systems I have seen use a "T" connection to the interior heater 
> lines.  Wouldn't more heat be used to heat the WVO if the coolant was sent 
> straight from the engine to the tank and back.  Then through the interior 
> heater 
> core before returning to the engine? or is there a reason all the system's I 
> have seen use a "T" connection for the coolant lines running to the WVO tank?
> 
> I look forward to your replies.
> 
> 
> Aidan Wilkins
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> 
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> 
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> http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel
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> 


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Re: [biofuel] Microturbines vs fuel cells

Hi,

I like cogen. It is like getting something for nothing. In the old days one 
would burn diesel and generate electricity. Next to it, one would burn diesel 
and fire a boiler for hot water. Somebody finally said, hey why not use the 
hot exhaust from the generator, and the heat in the coolant and heat the 
water in the boiler. Two products from one! I love it.

Here in Saudi Arabia there is a big need for water. They are therefore the 
world's largest producers of potable water from sea water. I don't know all 
of the details, but basically they burn natural gas to produce heat to get 
the potable water through an evaporative process. But, rather than do it 
directly, they do it with cogen. So, they produce electricity from natural 
gas and then use the waste heat from electrical production to produce potable 
water. At one time they were practically giving away the electricity since 
the primary product was water. Free electricity. Cogen.

I suspect that there are other processes out there that haven't been fully 
exploited to similarly get something for nothing. I bet there are processes 
to get more than two uses from the same energy burn, maybe three, or four. We 
need to look about and THINK.

Derek
> On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 15:12:49 -0500, you wrote:
> 
> >Their website lists 70-90% for cogeneration. I would imagine much less if 
> you're wasting the exhaust heat.
> >
> >-- 
> 
> Thx.  This whole cogeneration thing confuses me.  I mean, we're told that ICE
> engines invariably lose x amount to pumping losses and what-not, but if those
> "losses" are partly used in a productive way by cogeneration, ... i.e. if
> cogeneration can be applied to all of these technologies (ICE, micro-turbine,
> fuel cell) and if they're all about the same efficiency once cogeneration is
> taken into account, then aren't the advantages of switching to other
> technologies reduced?  Just a thought I've been having for awhile.  If
> cogeneration is in part the fine are of making "waste" heat useable, then I'd
> think that could be nicely applied to technologies such as ICE engines with
> plenty of "waste" heat.
> 
> 
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Re: [biofuel] Natural-Gas-To-Liquids using Fischer-Tropsch?

Hi Martin,

I was hoping someone with a little bit more knowledge might jump in here, but 
let me make a couple of comments.

I think stranded refers to gas deposits which do not have ready pipeline 
access. So any gas produced could not be shipped economically. Options would 
then either involve producing LNG, or perhaps this 'new' process.

I also understand that gas deposits can be described as either associated or 
non-associated with crude petroleum deposits. But, I don't think they mean 
non-associated by 'stranded' in this case.

Recently I came to realize that there is a distinction in OPEC quotas between 
production and export. For some reason, I always thought that when quotas 
were discussed that they referred to export. Actually, I have been told that 
they are production quotas. Why is this important? Because all of the oil 
produced and used domestically is counted in the quota. So...if the producing 
country can switch domestic use to natural gas, which isn't in the quota, and 
which used to often be wasted, they have a lot more oil for export while 
maintaining the same quota. There is a huge push in Saudi Arabia for all 
domestic energy use for electrical and water production to be based on 
natural gas. It is also preferred as the feedstock for the local Saudi 
chemical industry. Perhaps in part since it is exempt from quotas.

The gas produced at the well head is processed a lot. Sulfur is removed. And, 
they also talk a lot about condensate. This condensate measures in hundreds 
of thousands of barrels. I just wonder how different this process is from the 
one discussed below. Regardless, I have a suspicion, that since the feedstock 
to produce the condensate is natural gas, that this is exempt from the OPEC 
quota. The condensate is a high quality product such as naptha. This means 
that an additional reason why they might look into synthetic production of 
liquid fuels from gas would be to bypass the OPEC quotas.

Derek

> What exactly constitutes a 'stranded' natural gas resource, and why would it 
> be 
> cheaper to build a plant to produce liquid fuel at such a place? (that's what 
> they cite as one reason for doing it)
> I don't know how much gas it takes to create the liquid fuel, but I don't 
> know 
> why it would be better to do so. I haven't heard that gas prices are going 
> down 
> any time soon have you?
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> --
> Martin Klingensmith
> http://infoarchive.net/
> http://nnytech.net/
> 
> 
> 
> murdoch wrote:
> 
> >http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/031003/daf004a_1.html
> >
> >Anyone who knows about these chemical processes have any opinions (good, bad,
> >indifferent) in reading this?  I think Syntroleum started out as sort of a
> >Texaco thing but I don't recall.  I do know that Texaco was looking to 
> >increase
> >the value of their Natural Gas Assets.  Parts of this article will really 
> bother
> >those here, in that it ignores the many benefits of the renewable biofuels 
> >that
> >we discuss.  But I'm also just sort of curious and interested in the claimed
> >values of the fuels this plant will produce.
> >
> >Years ago I included them in our "Fuel Cell Index" because it seemed clear 
> >that
> >they were trying to produce fuels that might be used in a fuel cell.  For
> >example, they speak of their fuels being relatively hydrogen-rich.  That 
> >still
> >seems to be true, though I gnash my teeth to continue including them, since
> >they're so totally pro-oil/obfuscate-renewables.  I'd *love* to include a
> >biofuel company that had a realistic tie-in to fuel cells.
> >
> >
> >Press Release Source: Syntroleum Corporation 
> >
> >
> >Syntroleum Dedicates Ultra-Clean Fuels Plant With Marathon and U.S. DOE
> >Friday October 3, 11:00 am ET  
> >Completes Construction on Plant to Produce Synthetic Diesel From Natural Gas
> >Feedstock for Government Vehicle Fleet Demonstrations 
> >
> >
> >TULSA, Okla., Oct. 3 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Syntroleum Corporation 
> >(Nasdaq:
> >SYNM - News), Marathon Oil Company and the U.S. Department of Energy (DOE)
> >announced today the dedication of the newly constructed gas-to-liquids (GTL)
> >demonstration plant at the Port of Catoosa, near Tulsa, Oklahoma. When the 
> plant
> >goes on stream in early November it will employ the proprietary Syntroleum¨
> >Process to produce about 70 barrels per day of ultra-clean synthetic
> >transportation fuels. The fuel will be used in long-term testing and
> >demonstration in vehicle fleets, such as Washington, DC metropolitan buses 
> >and
> >National Park Service vehicles.
> > 
> >The plant was designed and constructed under the DOE's Ultra-Clean Fuels
> >program, a federal program managed by the DOE's National Energy Technology
> >Laboratory to pioneer a new generation of ultra-clean transportation fuels to
> >significantly reduce tailpipe emissions from cars, trucks and other heavy
> >vehicles. The plant's construction and operating costs approximate $52 
> >million
> >-- of w

Re: [biofuel] Microturbines vs fuel cells


Dan,

I have a vague idea that I read somewhere that they are around USD 20,000 to 
30,000. Way too much for a home application. Hopefully if they are downsized, 
the price would also be deflated. But, for a commercial application such as a 
cogen in a hotel, apparently the price is competitive.

Regards,

Derek

> [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
> > 
> > I think they need to try and downsize the turbines to the output for a 
> > house 
> > sized unit. Then, put one in the house and turn it on, fueled with 
> > biodiesel. 
> > Turn off the power company. It can set up as a cogen, so one has space 
> > heat, 
> > hot water, and electricity, all at the same time.
> 
> They look nice, but I've been unable to find pricing information.  Have
> any of you seen prices for them?
> 
> Thanks,
> Dan
> -- 
> Jack of all trades, master of none.
> Fiber Artist - Genealogist - Kilt Maker - Linux Geek - Piper - Woodworker
> http://www.xmission.com/~redbeard

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Re: [biofuel] Microturbines vs fuel cells


MM,

I think they are only used in buses or trucks for HEV applications due to 
their output. These are either 30 or 60 kW turbines. They can be grouped in 
sets of up to 100 units working together for non-HEV applications. That was 
why I made the comment about downsizing. Currently, they are too large for 
what I would want for a single home or a small vehicle. But, the technology 
looks 'perfect,' if they could be downsized.

Poke around the site at www.microturbine.com They have some white papers that 
deal with emissions, etc. They might have what you are looking for concerning 
efficiency, which I think is a good point relative to the fuel cells, and one 
I hadn't thought of. If I am reading the chart properly, electrical 
efficiency is between 25% and 30% for the 30kW turbine, depending on fuel. 
Efficiency would go up if the exhaust heat is used in a cogen for stationary 
applications, but I don't see any figures for that.

Derek

> Does anyone know the upper limits of energy efficiency on these turbines?  I
> know with a conventional ICE engine, a major reason for looking to fuel cells 
> as
> alternatives is that ICE engines are permanently limited by Carnot Cycle
> inefficiencies.  Even though many fuel cells are not yet above 40-50%
> efficiency, their theoretical efficiencies are much higher than ICE engines.  
> Is
> this also true of Microturbines?
> 
> The HEV success stories on the page you link all appear to be very large
> vehicles (busses).  I wonder if there's a reason.
> 
> MM


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[biofuel] Microturbines vs fuel cells


Hi,

I'm really excited about these microturbines. The tubine/generator shaft is 
supported on air bearings. There aren't any lubricants. The things will run 
24/7 with minimal maintenance only needing an air filter change once a year 
or so. The exhaust is exceedingly clean. They will run on diesel, biodiesel, 
kerosene, and probably ethanol. They can also run on gaseous fuels such as 
natural gas, propane, LNG, and I am sure they could be adjusted for hydrogen 
when and if that becomes available. Which leaves me wondering WHY do we need 
fuel cells? Right now, we have a running technology, Hakan's ready to use 
technology, that apparently can do all, and more, of what is expected with a 
fuel cell. They can be used as the power source in a hybrid vehicle. I 
believe the problem with turbines in a direct drive vehicle was the 
difficulty of controlling accesleration and start up time. That wouldn't 
appear to be a problem in a hybrid that basically needs an engine running at 
a constant output.

I think they need to try and downsize the turbines to the output for a house 
sized unit. Then, put one in the house and turn it on, fueled with biodiesel. 
Turn off the power company. It can set up as a cogen, so one has space heat, 
hot water, and electricity, all at the same time.

Do we really need to wait all of those years for a fuel cell?

Derek

> Hi Derek, how goes?
> 
> Thanks for the links.
> 
> >I've been looking about the Internet at the new HEVs and have come across
> >these sites, which I don't recall being mentioned recently on this list. I
> >felt they make an interesting read.
> >
> >http://www.microturbine.com/caseStudies/hevCase1.asp
> >
> >Use of a microturbine for buses in an HEV application. Burning either diesel
> >or CNG. There are a lot of applications mentioned for these turbines with
> >mention of advantages over ICEs relative to noise, exhaust polution,
> >maintenance, etc.

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[biofuel] Changes


Hi Keith and all the list,

> Hi Derek, how goes?
>

I'm hoping to be more active on the list again. I've had trouble accessing 
the list through my company's firewall. Things are improving. Anyway, I have 
been reading through a couple of thousand messages and catching up!!

I've been thinking of back when I first joined the list and we had a minor 
celebration when we hit 500 members. Now I see we are heading for two 
thousand. Over the relatively few years that we have been visiting together, 
I think a lot of progress has been made with biofuels. Although it can seem 
frustrating at times, I think if one looks at where we have come from, a lot 
has been accomplished.

Also in the roughly four years of the list, Keith moved from Hong Kong to 
Japan, and has lived at two locations in Japan. I moved from Saudi, to 
Beijing, China, to Spain, and back to Saudi. I'm sure many others have also 
had personal upheavals!

During the four years of the list there have been two wars fought, many would 
say with energy concerns at the root of the cause for the conflicts. We've 
used up a lot more fossil fuels. Concerns that four years ago were discussed 
such as global warming are now becoming less theory and more real with recent 
news reports about the shrinking ice caps, etc.

But, the word is getting out about biofuels. More and more people are aware 
of them. More people are using them. Their time is here and now, and more so 
every day. Other things are helping. Wind energy is fast becoming a major 
player whereas four years ago it was just getting off the ground. Hybrid 
vehicles were more or less a concept four years ago. Now, they are close to 
making a major play. I'm sure everyone will have their own examples.

But, I do kind of feel that we are swimming just ahead of the wave. Hopefully 
fast enough to keep it from crashing on us. And, hopefully it won't be a 
tsunami.

Regards,

Derek



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[biofuel] Available Agricultural Land