Re: [Biofuel] [SPAMPROB:51%] Re: threat to U.S. dollar

[Chip Mefford]

(editorial note; I hate word-wrap)


M&K DuPree wrote:
> Joe Street asks, Is there anything we at home can do to help speed this 
> process? :)
> 
> I suggest: Implore your Federal representatives to continue raising the debt 
> ceiling, 
> to continue supporting the war in Iraq and Afghanistan, to start another war 
> in 
> Iran, etc etc.  Or better, don't waste your time.  Instead, I ask you, Joe, 
> and 
> the List, how do you believe the average "Joe" should prepare for the 
> inevitable 
> demise of the US dollar???  I'm not trying to be facetious.  I'm asking a 
> real 
> question, seeking a real answer.  Might not like the answer, but I'd like to 

>SNIP<

"how do you believe the average "Joe" should prepare for the inevitable
 demise of the US dollar??? "

A simple note;

I'm 50 years old. I've heard about the pending collapse/failure of
the US system my whole life. It's inevitable, and right around the
corner. That mindset is just simply part of me.

Yet, it doesn't happen,

Sure, it's going to happen tomorrow, but we said that yesterday,
and the day before.


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Re: [Biofuel] [SPAMPROB:51%] Re: threat to U.S. dollar

[Hakan Falk]

If the dollar devaluate, which means that many countries are prepared 
to take their losses and give up on US, then your produce will be in 
high demand/price situation. Until they give up, the imports will be 
very competitive and since many exporters to US are pegged to the US 
dollar or even use it as their currency, all your competition will 
not be eliminated. It might also take a while, since your government 
do not want you to be successful in this business. They will do 
almost anything to see you fail. LOL

Observe that I have not delivered any doomsday predictions, on the 
contrary I have only described why the dollar continues to survive. 
Looking at the basics, it is no strength in the fundamentals for the 
dollar. It will however be very interesting with the new oil bourses, 
that will trade in Euro, this is a substantial threat. If US attack 
Iran, it will be the real reason, anything else will be bad excuses. 
Without the support of being the oil currency, the dollar might take 
a nose dive. We do not know, but it is interesting.

Hakan

At 00:41 31/05/2006, you wrote:
>so if i bought a big chunk of land and opened a grocery store supplied by
>that land, i should be fine...
>- Original Message -
>From: "Hakan Falk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: 
>Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2006 11:40 AM
>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] [SPAMPROB:51%] Re: threat to U.S. dollar
>
>
> >
> > Mike,
> >
> > Why should you not have any income? Is your job very dependent on
> > imports to US?
> >
> > Jobs for local produce, is the same or safer, export is safer than
> > before. Imports would sell much less and a lot of jobs will be lost.
> >
> > It is many countries in the past, who have done 30 to 50% write down
> > of their currencies. It is an adjustment to reflect the true value of
> > the assets and businesses. I have experienced countries with 20 to
> > 30% devaluation.
> >
> > The dollar in US is not worthless after a devaluation, you have to
> > shift what you buy for it. You have to buy more US produced food,
> > which is less effected by an devaluation. It is of course a major
> > health risk, but you have no choice. Some national businesses will
> > try to take advantage of the situation, but normally the government
> > will introduce price control to stop this.
> >
> > To prepare? You can buy a low consuming foreign diesel car now, it is
> > a win-win anyway you see it, with or without devaluation. It will be
> > very cheap to buy an American car after devaluation, but the running
> > cost will not be sustainable.
> >
> > US will lose much of its financial wealth, import jobs are going to
> > be lost. The average Joe will not go under in any way, but the
> > wealthy 10% of the population, will be hurt a lot and many fortunes
> > wiped out. Why US have been allowed to run so large debts and
> > deficits, is because a lot of foreign fortunes will be wiped out
> > also. The one who is the least effected, is the average American Joe,
> > employed in local produce, distribution, export etc.
> >
> > Hakan
> >
> > At 17:55 30/05/2006, you wrote:
> >>Hi Hakan...thanks for this well thought out response.  I've read it
> >>carefully and tried to use my imagination more, but I'm still not
> >>clear on how any of us in the USA might specifically prepare for
> >>this.  It seems having the house paid off is a good thing, although
> >>I'm not sure how I might pay property taxes and insurance if I have
> >>no income.  What types of services do you think will fail and
> >>survive?  I suppose if there is any stuff in the house I want to
> >>sell on eBay, I need to get it done immediately.  Of course, what
> >>good will it do to have worthless US Dollars?  I'm wondering if I
> >>should be buying Euros and socking them away???  If there are other
> >>people or places you feel I should turn to for these answers, please
> >>advise.  Thanks again.  Mike DuPree
> >>
> >>- Original Message -
> >>From: "Hakan Falk"
> >><<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >>To: <<mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org>biofuel@sustainablelists.org>
> >>Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2006 9:56 AM
> >>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] [SPAMPROB:51%] Re: threat to U.S. dollar
> >>
> >> >
> >> > Mike,
> >> >
> >> > It is not like US will implode, it can still largely maintain prices
> >> > on domestic products. Imports will however effect price levels and
> >> > domestic production that use l

Re: [Biofuel] [SPAMPROB:51%] Re: threat to U.S. dollar

[Jason& Katie]

well for anyone who lives in a town of less than 
1500, the answer would be obvious, and probably already in use. ya gotta have a 
truck a gun and a veggie garden (im serious about the garden and truck - the gun 
is optional.)

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  M&K 
  DuPree 
  To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org 
  
  Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2006 9:19 AM
  Subject: Re: [Biofuel] [SPAMPROB:51%] Re: 
  threat to U.S. dollar
  
  Joe Street asks, Is there anything we 
  at home can do to help speed this process? :)
  I suggest: Implore your 
  Federal representatives to continue raising the debt ceiling, to continue 
  supporting the war in Iraq and Afghanistan, to start another war in Iran, etc 
  etc.  Or better, don't waste your time.  Instead, I ask you, Joe, 
  and the List, how do you believe the average "Joe" should prepare for the 
  inevitable demise of the US dollar???  I'm not trying to be 
  facetious.  I'm asking a real question, seeking a real answer.  
  Might not like the answer, but I'd like to hear.  Also, Keith, how will 
  Japan be affected?  Japan is one of the largest holders of US Debt.  
  Mike DuPree
   
  - Original Message - 
  From: "Joe Street" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  To: <biofuel@sustainablelists.org>
  Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2006 8:29 
  AM
  Subject: [SPAMPROB:51%] Re: [Biofuel] 
  threat to U.S. dollar
  > Is there anything we at home can do to help 
  speed this process? :)> > Joe> > AltEnergyNetwork 
  wrote:> >> >> < http://www.vheadline.com/readnews.asp?id=58951 >>> >> >> Threat 
  against the US$ comes from countries such as Iran >> and 
  Venezuela...>> >> Former Nordland University (Norway) 
  associate professor,>>  Dr. Abbas Bakhtiar writes:  On 
  Wednesday, May 17, the >> Dow Jones plunged 214 points to 11,206 -- 
  its worst point>>  drop since March 2003. The downward trend 
  started a week>>  ago and is a warning sign of troubles ahead. 
  This sudden>>  drop has come as a complete surprise to the 
  unfortunate>>  small investors and speculators. The so called 
  “experts” >> point at the sudden threat of inflation as the main 
  cause>>  of the recent reversals in the markets. >> 
  >> What is actually surprising is the surprise of 
  the>>  “experts." A cursory look at the United States’ 
  finances>>  will reveal the amount of pressure that its economy 
  is>>  under. >> >> When Bush became 
  president in 2001, the United States’>>  public debt was 5.8 
  trillion dollars. Today the public>>  debt stands at US$8.3 
  trillion. Of this over $2.2>>  trillion are held by 
  foreigners.  The United States>>  has a GDP of $12.4 
  trillion ... this gives the US a>>  Debt/GDP ratio of 66%, 
  placing it in 35th place >> (out of 113) in the ranking of the 
  Debtor Nations.>> >> The current account deficit of over 
  7% has long passed>>  its danger levels of 4-5%. In 2005 the US 
  government>>  paid $325 billion only in interest payments 
  alone. >> Then, there are the future obligations such as 
  Medicare,>>  Social Security and government pensions. These 
  obligations amount to $54 trillion. This huge problem worried the former 
  Federal Reserve Chairman, Alan Greenspan. He told congress: “As a nation, we 
  may have already made promises to coming generations of retirees that we will 
  be unable to fulfil.”>> >> One would think that this 
  amount of debt would worry the>>  president and the congress 
  ... but apparently it does not. The United States’ Congress recently (March 
  2006) voted to increase the Federal debt limit to $9 trillion. Any other 
  nation in similar circumstances would have had to approach IMF for help. The 
  IMF would then have forced that nation to cut spending and devalue its 
  currency ... but US does not need to do this. The US can just print some more 
  dollars.>> >> But how long can this continue before the 
  world loose>>  faith in the greenback, sending it crashing to 
  >> unimaginable levels. >> >> The Asian Lender 
  >> >> The Asian countries such as Japan, China and 
  others>>  that hold most of the US debts have been happy to 
  >> indulge the American deficit spending. This has 
  been>>  a two-way Street, America has kept its market 
  open>> to their products and they have financed the 
  Americans’>>  spending. >> >> The value of 
  US dollar so far has been kept artificially>>  high by Japan, 
  China and oil-exporting countries. >> These countries by buying US 
  debts have has kept >> interests rates relatively low in the United 
  States>>  and allowed Americans 

Re: [Biofuel] [SPAMPROB:51%] Re: threat to U.S. dollar

[Jason& Katie]

so if i bought a big chunk of land and opened a grocery store supplied by 
that land, i should be fine...
- Original Message - 
From: "Hakan Falk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2006 11:40 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] [SPAMPROB:51%] Re: threat to U.S. dollar


>
> Mike,
>
> Why should you not have any income? Is your job very dependent on
> imports to US?
>
> Jobs for local produce, is the same or safer, export is safer than
> before. Imports would sell much less and a lot of jobs will be lost.
>
> It is many countries in the past, who have done 30 to 50% write down
> of their currencies. It is an adjustment to reflect the true value of
> the assets and businesses. I have experienced countries with 20 to
> 30% devaluation.
>
> The dollar in US is not worthless after a devaluation, you have to
> shift what you buy for it. You have to buy more US produced food,
> which is less effected by an devaluation. It is of course a major
> health risk, but you have no choice. Some national businesses will
> try to take advantage of the situation, but normally the government
> will introduce price control to stop this.
>
> To prepare? You can buy a low consuming foreign diesel car now, it is
> a win-win anyway you see it, with or without devaluation. It will be
> very cheap to buy an American car after devaluation, but the running
> cost will not be sustainable.
>
> US will lose much of its financial wealth, import jobs are going to
> be lost. The average Joe will not go under in any way, but the
> wealthy 10% of the population, will be hurt a lot and many fortunes
> wiped out. Why US have been allowed to run so large debts and
> deficits, is because a lot of foreign fortunes will be wiped out
> also. The one who is the least effected, is the average American Joe,
> employed in local produce, distribution, export etc.
>
> Hakan
>
> At 17:55 30/05/2006, you wrote:
>>Hi Hakan...thanks for this well thought out response.  I've read it
>>carefully and tried to use my imagination more, but I'm still not
>>clear on how any of us in the USA might specifically prepare for
>>this.  It seems having the house paid off is a good thing, although
>>I'm not sure how I might pay property taxes and insurance if I have
>>no income.  What types of services do you think will fail and
>>survive?  I suppose if there is any stuff in the house I want to
>>sell on eBay, I need to get it done immediately.  Of course, what
>>good will it do to have worthless US Dollars?  I'm wondering if I
>>should be buying Euros and socking them away???  If there are other
>>people or places you feel I should turn to for these answers, please
>>advise.  Thanks again.  Mike DuPree
>>
>>----- Original Message -
>>From: "Hakan Falk"
>><<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>To: <<mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org>biofuel@sustainablelists.org>
>>Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2006 9:56 AM
>>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] [SPAMPROB:51%] Re: threat to U.S. dollar
>>
>> >
>> > Mike,
>> >
>> > It is not like US will implode, it can still largely maintain prices
>> > on domestic products. Imports will however effect price levels and
>> > domestic production that use large amounts of energy, will have to
>> > correct pricing. Since US is importing a lot of the energy use and
>> > also that the domestic energy production will follow the world
>> > markets, it is a much that will be effected. The US export will be
>> > effected positively and offset some of the negatives as a nation, but
>> > the average Joe will see this as negative and lowering of living 
>> > standard.
>> >
>> > US will see a rush to buy US properties, companies and corporations
>> > by foreigners, which will be cheap and a way to use the large $
>> > holdings. This will be a circus and US will try, within the limits,
>> > to stop this owner shifts. If they do nothing, it will be bad and if
>> > they do too much, it will be worse for the possibility of future
>> recuperation.
>> >
>> > US will not afford any more Iraq adventures and have to get out of
>> > the existing ones as soon as possible, to stop bleeding. It will lose
>> > its international standing and will not be trusted for a couple of
>> > generations. This will also put US at the same level as several South
>> > American countries. The damages to the national pride, will be far
>> > larger than the actual national economic damages. EU will be the
>> > worlds economic super power, followed

Re: [Biofuel] [SPAMPROB:51%] Re: threat to U.S. dollar

[robert and benita rabello]

Hakan Falk wrote:

>Robert,
>
>I do not think that it is comparable with Brazil.
>

We have social security and debt interest time bombs just waiting to 
go off over here.  Most people involved in economics have told me that 
inflation is ALWAYS preferable to deflation, and we're only now 
beginning to see the impact of "baby boomers" retiring.  There's a storm 
coming, for certain.

> I think that the depression in the 30s is a more adequate comparison.
>This because US is a democracy, educated population and
>leaders who can handle it.
>  
>

Where are these leaders, Hakan?  We've got leadership telling us 
that we have to "stay the course" in Iraq in order to "honor the dead" 
who've "sacrificed so much for democracy".  You think we have rational 
leadership?  I don't follow your reasoning.

>It has been several devaluations in Europe the last 40 years
>and they were done at proper timing. The only country who
>had severe problems, was Italy. US will be a bit harder, because
>the postponements, but hopefully have the competence to
>do it right.
>  
>

The words "competence" and "US government" should never be used in 
the same sentence!

>Yes, the rich will try to protect themselves and that is one
>of the reasons to the current US problems. It is no external
>threats to the US dollar, it is internal mismanagement.
>  
>

Blame is certainly better to give than receive.  We have people 
protesting at funerals over here because they believe God is punishing 
us for our tolerance of homosexuality!  We've got preachers beating 
their pulpits about the dangers of domestic terrorism.  We've got people 
who are more interested in legislating morality than dealing with the 
fundamental problems of our economy.  The kind of rational thinking to 
which you refer is more rare than gold in abundance.

robert luis rabello
"The Edge of Justice"
Adventure for Your Mind
http://www.newadventure.ca

Ranger Supercharger Project Page
http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/


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Re: [Biofuel] [SPAMPROB:51%] Re: threat to U.S. dollar

[Hakan Falk]

Robert,

I do not think that it is comparable with Brazil. I think that
the depression in the 30s is a more adequate comparison.
This because US is a democracy, educated population and
leaders who can handle it.

It has been several devaluations in Europe the last 40 years
and they were done at proper timing. The only country who
had severe problems, was Italy. US will be a bit harder, because
the postponements, but hopefully have the competence to
do it right.

Yes, the rich will try to protect themselves and that is one
of the reasons to the current US problems. It is no external
threats to the US dollar, it is internal mismanagement.

Hakan

At 19:14 30/05/2006, you wrote:
>Hakan Falk wrote:
>
> >Mike,
> >
> >About your house and mortgage. Your house will go up in value after a
> >devaluation and your mortgage will go down in value. In this case you
> >will win, some time after the devaluation, when things improve. It
> >will improve, because that is the whole purpose of the devaluation
> >anyway and property is a safer investment.
> >
> >Hakan
> >
> >
>
> I remember hyperinflation in Brasil during the 1970's.  For the
>price of a refrigerator one week, you could buy a 6 pack of Guarana the
>next!  Banks raised their interest rates to compensate, mortgage
>payments rose and people whose incomes couldn't keep pace founnd their
>ability to sustain a living continually eroded.  The rich will ALWAYS
>protect themselves.
>
>  It's the rest of us who will suffer.
>
>robert luis rabello
>"The Edge of Justice"
>Adventure for Your Mind
>http://www.newadventure.ca
>
>Ranger Supercharger Project Page
>http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/



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Re: [Biofuel] [SPAMPROB:51%] Re: threat to U.S. dollar

[robert and benita rabello]

Hakan Falk wrote:

>Mike,
>
>About your house and mortgage. Your house will go up in value after a 
>devaluation and your mortgage will go down in value. In this case you 
>will win, some time after the devaluation, when things improve. It 
>will improve, because that is the whole purpose of the devaluation 
>anyway and property is a safer investment.
>
>Hakan
>  
>

I remember hyperinflation in Brasil during the 1970's.  For the 
price of a refrigerator one week, you could buy a 6 pack of Guarana the 
next!  Banks raised their interest rates to compensate, mortgage 
payments rose and people whose incomes couldn't keep pace founnd their 
ability to sustain a living continually eroded.  The rich will ALWAYS 
protect themselves.

 It's the rest of us who will suffer.

robert luis rabello
"The Edge of Justice"
Adventure for Your Mind
http://www.newadventure.ca

Ranger Supercharger Project Page
http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/


___
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Re: [Biofuel] [SPAMPROB:51%] Re: threat to U.S. dollar

[M&K DuPree]

Hakan...Our house is paid off, but of 
course we still have property taxes and insurance to pay.  We're not 
"wealthy" by any stretch.  We don't live close to the bone, yet, but 
definitely within our means.  Many, many years ago we decided to get rid of 
our debt.  I really appreciate your help along these lines.  Mike 
DuPree
 
- Original Message - 
From: "Hakan Falk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <biofuel@sustainablelists.org>
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2006 12:01 
PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] [SPAMPROB:51%] Re: 
threat to U.S. dollar
> > Mike,> > About your 
house and mortgage. Your house will go up in value after a > devaluation 
and your mortgage will go down in value. In this case you > will win, 
some time after the devaluation, when things improve. It > will improve, 
because that is the whole purpose of the devaluation > anyway and 
property is a safer investment.> > Hakan> > At 17:55 
30/05/2006, you wrote:>>Hi Hakan...thanks for this well thought out 
response.  I've read it >>carefully and tried to use my 
imagination more, but I'm still not >>clear on how any of us in the 
USA might specifically prepare for >>this.  It seems having the 
house paid off is a good thing, although >>I'm not sure how I might 
pay property taxes and insurance if I have >>no income.  What 
types of services do you think will fail and >>survive?  I 
suppose if there is any stuff in the house I want to >>sell on eBay, I 
need to get it done immediately.  Of course, what >>good will it 
do to have worthless US Dollars?  I'm wondering if I >>should be 
buying Euros and socking them away???  If there are other 
>>people or places you feel I should turn to for these answers, please 
>>advise.  Thanks again.  Mike 
DuPree>>>>- Original Message ->>From: 
"Hakan Falk" >><<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>>To: <<mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org>biofuel@sustainablelists.org>>>Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2006 9:56 
AM>>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] [SPAMPROB:51%] Re: threat to U.S. 
dollar>>>> >>> > Mike,>> 
>>> > It is not like US will implode, it can still largely 
maintain prices>> > on domestic products. Imports will however 
effect price levels and>> > domestic production that use large 
amounts of energy, will have to>> > correct pricing. Since US is 
importing a lot of the energy use and>> > also that the domestic 
energy production will follow the world>> > markets, it is a much 
that will be effected. The US export will be>> > effected 
positively and offset some of the negatives as a nation, but>> > 
the average Joe will see this as negative and lowering of living 
standard.>> >>> > US will see a rush to buy US 
properties, companies and corporations>> > by foreigners, which 
will be cheap and a way to use the large $>> > holdings. This will 
be a circus and US will try, within the limits,>> > to stop this 
owner shifts. If they do nothing, it will be bad and if>> > they do 
too much, it will be worse for the possibility of future >> 
recuperation.>> >>> > US will not afford any more Iraq 
adventures and have to get out of>> > the existing ones as soon as 
possible, to stop bleeding. It will lose>> > its international 
standing and will not be trusted for a couple of>> > generations. 
This will also put US at the same level as several South>> > 
American countries. The damages to the national pride, will be far>> 
> larger than the actual national economic damages. EU will be 
the>> > worlds economic super power, followed by Russia and 
China.>> >>> > You will see effects like the 
depression in the 30's and a lot of>> > suicides, as it was then. 
You will also see a lot of price regulation>> > on domestic 
produce.>> >>> > Hakan>> >>> 
> At 16:19 30/05/2006, you wrote:>> >>Joe Street asks, Is 
there anything we at home can do to help speed>> >>this process? 
:)>> >>I suggest: Implore your Federal representatives to 
continue raising>> >>the debt ceiling, to continue supporting 
the war in Iraq and>> >>Afghanistan, to start another war in 
Iran, etc etc.  Or better,>> >>don't waste your time.  
Instead, I ask you, Joe, and the List, how>> >>do you believe 
the average "Joe" should prepare for the inevitable>> >>demise 
of the US dollar???  I'm not trying to be facetious.  I'm>> 
>>asking a real question, seeking 

Re: [Biofuel] [SPAMPROB:51%] Re: threat to U.S. dollar

[M&K DuPree]

Hakan...thanks again for your reasoned response.  Very helpful.  Mike DuPree

- Original Message - 
From: "Hakan Falk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2006 11:40 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] [SPAMPROB:51%] Re: threat to U.S. dollar


>
> Mike,
>
> Why should you not have any income? Is your job very dependent on
> imports to US?
>
> Jobs for local produce, is the same or safer, export is safer than
> before. Imports would sell much less and a lot of jobs will be lost.
>
> It is many countries in the past, who have done 30 to 50% write down
> of their currencies. It is an adjustment to reflect the true value of
> the assets and businesses. I have experienced countries with 20 to
> 30% devaluation.
>
> The dollar in US is not worthless after a devaluation, you have to
> shift what you buy for it. You have to buy more US produced food,
> which is less effected by an devaluation. It is of course a major
> health risk, but you have no choice. Some national businesses will
> try to take advantage of the situation, but normally the government
> will introduce price control to stop this.
>
> To prepare? You can buy a low consuming foreign diesel car now, it is
> a win-win anyway you see it, with or without devaluation. It will be
> very cheap to buy an American car after devaluation, but the running
> cost will not be sustainable.
>
> US will lose much of its financial wealth, import jobs are going to
> be lost. The average Joe will not go under in any way, but the
> wealthy 10% of the population, will be hurt a lot and many fortunes
> wiped out. Why US have been allowed to run so large debts and
> deficits, is because a lot of foreign fortunes will be wiped out
> also. The one who is the least effected, is the average American Joe,
> employed in local produce, distribution, export etc.
>
> Hakan
>
> At 17:55 30/05/2006, you wrote:
>>Hi Hakan...thanks for this well thought out response.  I've read it
>>carefully and tried to use my imagination more, but I'm still not
>>clear on how any of us in the USA might specifically prepare for
>>this.  It seems having the house paid off is a good thing, although
>>I'm not sure how I might pay property taxes and insurance if I have
>>no income.  What types of services do you think will fail and
>>survive?  I suppose if there is any stuff in the house I want to
>>sell on eBay, I need to get it done immediately.  Of course, what
>>good will it do to have worthless US Dollars?  I'm wondering if I
>>should be buying Euros and socking them away???  If there are other
>>people or places you feel I should turn to for these answers, please
>>advise.  Thanks again.  Mike DuPree
>>
>>----- Original Message -
>>From: "Hakan Falk"
>><<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>To: <<mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org>biofuel@sustainablelists.org>
>>Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2006 9:56 AM
>>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] [SPAMPROB:51%] Re: threat to U.S. dollar
>>
>> >
>> > Mike,
>> >
>> > It is not like US will implode, it can still largely maintain prices
>> > on domestic products. Imports will however effect price levels and
>> > domestic production that use large amounts of energy, will have to
>> > correct pricing. Since US is importing a lot of the energy use and
>> > also that the domestic energy production will follow the world
>> > markets, it is a much that will be effected. The US export will be
>> > effected positively and offset some of the negatives as a nation, but
>> > the average Joe will see this as negative and lowering of living 
>> > standard.
>> >
>> > US will see a rush to buy US properties, companies and corporations
>> > by foreigners, which will be cheap and a way to use the large $
>> > holdings. This will be a circus and US will try, within the limits,
>> > to stop this owner shifts. If they do nothing, it will be bad and if
>> > they do too much, it will be worse for the possibility of future
>> recuperation.
>> >
>> > US will not afford any more Iraq adventures and have to get out of
>> > the existing ones as soon as possible, to stop bleeding. It will lose
>> > its international standing and will not be trusted for a couple of
>> > generations. This will also put US at the same level as several South
>> > American countries. The damages to the national pride, will be far
>> > larger than the actual national economic damages. EU will be the
>> > worlds economic super power, followed by Russia and China.
>&g

Re: [Biofuel] [SPAMPROB:51%] Re: threat to U.S. dollar

[Hakan Falk]

Mike,

About your house and mortgage. Your house will go up in value after a 
devaluation and your mortgage will go down in value. In this case you 
will win, some time after the devaluation, when things improve. It 
will improve, because that is the whole purpose of the devaluation 
anyway and property is a safer investment.

Hakan

At 17:55 30/05/2006, you wrote:
>Hi Hakan...thanks for this well thought out response.  I've read it 
>carefully and tried to use my imagination more, but I'm still not 
>clear on how any of us in the USA might specifically prepare for 
>this.  It seems having the house paid off is a good thing, although 
>I'm not sure how I might pay property taxes and insurance if I have 
>no income.  What types of services do you think will fail and 
>survive?  I suppose if there is any stuff in the house I want to 
>sell on eBay, I need to get it done immediately.  Of course, what 
>good will it do to have worthless US Dollars?  I'm wondering if I 
>should be buying Euros and socking them away???  If there are other 
>people or places you feel I should turn to for these answers, please 
>advise.  Thanks again.  Mike DuPree
>
>- Original Message -
>From: "Hakan Falk" 
><<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: <<mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org>biofuel@sustainablelists.org>
>Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2006 9:56 AM
>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] [SPAMPROB:51%] Re: threat to U.S. dollar
>
> >
> > Mike,
> >
> > It is not like US will implode, it can still largely maintain prices
> > on domestic products. Imports will however effect price levels and
> > domestic production that use large amounts of energy, will have to
> > correct pricing. Since US is importing a lot of the energy use and
> > also that the domestic energy production will follow the world
> > markets, it is a much that will be effected. The US export will be
> > effected positively and offset some of the negatives as a nation, but
> > the average Joe will see this as negative and lowering of living standard.
> >
> > US will see a rush to buy US properties, companies and corporations
> > by foreigners, which will be cheap and a way to use the large $
> > holdings. This will be a circus and US will try, within the limits,
> > to stop this owner shifts. If they do nothing, it will be bad and if
> > they do too much, it will be worse for the possibility of future 
> recuperation.
> >
> > US will not afford any more Iraq adventures and have to get out of
> > the existing ones as soon as possible, to stop bleeding. It will lose
> > its international standing and will not be trusted for a couple of
> > generations. This will also put US at the same level as several South
> > American countries. The damages to the national pride, will be far
> > larger than the actual national economic damages. EU will be the
> > worlds economic super power, followed by Russia and China.
> >
> > You will see effects like the depression in the 30's and a lot of
> > suicides, as it was then. You will also see a lot of price regulation
> > on domestic produce.
> >
> > Hakan
> >
> > At 16:19 30/05/2006, you wrote:
> >>Joe Street asks, Is there anything we at home can do to help speed
> >>this process? :)
> >>I suggest: Implore your Federal representatives to continue raising
> >>the debt ceiling, to continue supporting the war in Iraq and
> >>Afghanistan, to start another war in Iran, etc etc.  Or better,
> >>don't waste your time.  Instead, I ask you, Joe, and the List, how
> >>do you believe the average "Joe" should prepare for the inevitable
> >>demise of the US dollar???  I'm not trying to be facetious.  I'm
> >>asking a real question, seeking a real answer.  Might not like the
> >>answer, but I'd like to hear.  Also, Keith, how will Japan be
> >>affected?  Japan is one of the largest holders of US Debt.  Mike DuPree
> >>
> >>- Original Message -
> >>From: "Joe Street"
> >><<<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> a>mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >>To: 
> <<<mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org>biofuel@sustainablelists.org>mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org>biofuel@sustainablelists.org>
> >>Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2006 8:29 AM
> >>Subject: [SPAMPROB:51%] Re: [Biofuel] threat to U.S. dollar
> >>
> >> > Is there anything we at home can do to help speed this process? :)
> >> >
> >> > Joe
> >> >
> &g

Re: [Biofuel] [SPAMPROB:51%] Re: threat to U.S. dollar

[Hakan Falk]

Mike,

Why should you not have any income? Is your job very dependent on 
imports to US?

Jobs for local produce, is the same or safer, export is safer than 
before. Imports would sell much less and a lot of jobs will be lost.

It is many countries in the past, who have done 30 to 50% write down 
of their currencies. It is an adjustment to reflect the true value of 
the assets and businesses. I have experienced countries with 20 to 
30% devaluation.

The dollar in US is not worthless after a devaluation, you have to 
shift what you buy for it. You have to buy more US produced food, 
which is less effected by an devaluation. It is of course a major 
health risk, but you have no choice. Some national businesses will 
try to take advantage of the situation, but normally the government 
will introduce price control to stop this.

To prepare? You can buy a low consuming foreign diesel car now, it is 
a win-win anyway you see it, with or without devaluation. It will be 
very cheap to buy an American car after devaluation, but the running 
cost will not be sustainable.

US will lose much of its financial wealth, import jobs are going to 
be lost. The average Joe will not go under in any way, but the 
wealthy 10% of the population, will be hurt a lot and many fortunes 
wiped out. Why US have been allowed to run so large debts and 
deficits, is because a lot of foreign fortunes will be wiped out 
also. The one who is the least effected, is the average American Joe, 
employed in local produce, distribution, export etc.

Hakan

At 17:55 30/05/2006, you wrote:
>Hi Hakan...thanks for this well thought out response.  I've read it 
>carefully and tried to use my imagination more, but I'm still not 
>clear on how any of us in the USA might specifically prepare for 
>this.  It seems having the house paid off is a good thing, although 
>I'm not sure how I might pay property taxes and insurance if I have 
>no income.  What types of services do you think will fail and 
>survive?  I suppose if there is any stuff in the house I want to 
>sell on eBay, I need to get it done immediately.  Of course, what 
>good will it do to have worthless US Dollars?  I'm wondering if I 
>should be buying Euros and socking them away???  If there are other 
>people or places you feel I should turn to for these answers, please 
>advise.  Thanks again.  Mike DuPree
>
>- Original Message -
>From: "Hakan Falk" 
><<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: <<mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org>biofuel@sustainablelists.org>
>Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2006 9:56 AM
>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] [SPAMPROB:51%] Re: threat to U.S. dollar
>
> >
> > Mike,
> >
> > It is not like US will implode, it can still largely maintain prices
> > on domestic products. Imports will however effect price levels and
> > domestic production that use large amounts of energy, will have to
> > correct pricing. Since US is importing a lot of the energy use and
> > also that the domestic energy production will follow the world
> > markets, it is a much that will be effected. The US export will be
> > effected positively and offset some of the negatives as a nation, but
> > the average Joe will see this as negative and lowering of living standard.
> >
> > US will see a rush to buy US properties, companies and corporations
> > by foreigners, which will be cheap and a way to use the large $
> > holdings. This will be a circus and US will try, within the limits,
> > to stop this owner shifts. If they do nothing, it will be bad and if
> > they do too much, it will be worse for the possibility of future 
> recuperation.
> >
> > US will not afford any more Iraq adventures and have to get out of
> > the existing ones as soon as possible, to stop bleeding. It will lose
> > its international standing and will not be trusted for a couple of
> > generations. This will also put US at the same level as several South
> > American countries. The damages to the national pride, will be far
> > larger than the actual national economic damages. EU will be the
> > worlds economic super power, followed by Russia and China.
> >
> > You will see effects like the depression in the 30's and a lot of
> > suicides, as it was then. You will also see a lot of price regulation
> > on domestic produce.
> >
> > Hakan
> >
> > At 16:19 30/05/2006, you wrote:
> >>Joe Street asks, Is there anything we at home can do to help speed
> >>this process? :)
> >>I suggest: Implore your Federal representatives to continue raising
> >>the debt ceiling, to continue supporting the war in Iraq and
> >>Afghanistan, to start another war in Iran, etc etc.  Or bet

Re: [Biofuel] [SPAMPROB:51%] Re: threat to U.S. dollar

[M&K DuPree]

Hi Hakan...thanks for this 
well thought out response.  I've read it carefully and tried 
to use my imagination more, but I'm still not clear on how any of us in the USA 
might specifically prepare for this.  It seems having the house paid 
off is a good thing, although I'm not sure how I might pay property taxes and 
insurance if I have no income.  What types of services do you think will 
fail and survive?  I suppose if there is any stuff in the house I want to 
sell on eBay, I need to get it done immediately.  Of course, what good will 
it do to have worthless US Dollars?  I'm wondering if I should be buying 
Euros and socking them away???  If there are other people or places you 
feel I should turn to for these answers, please advise.  Thanks 
again.  Mike DuPree
 
- Original Message 
- 
From: "Hakan Falk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <biofuel@sustainablelists.org>
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2006 9:56 
AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] [SPAMPROB:51%] Re: 
threat to U.S. dollar
> > Mike,> > It is not like 
US will implode, it can still largely maintain prices > on domestic 
products. Imports will however effect price levels and > domestic 
production that use large amounts of energy, will have to > correct 
pricing. Since US is importing a lot of the energy use and > also that 
the domestic energy production will follow the world > markets, it is a 
much that will be effected. The US export will be > effected positively 
and offset some of the negatives as a nation, but > the average Joe will 
see this as negative and lowering of living standard.> > US will 
see a rush to buy US properties, companies and corporations > by 
foreigners, which will be cheap and a way to use the large $ > holdings. 
This will be a circus and US will try, within the limits, > to stop this 
owner shifts. If they do nothing, it will be bad and if > they do too 
much, it will be worse for the possibility of future recuperation.> 
> US will not afford any more Iraq adventures and have to get out of 
> the existing ones as soon as possible, to stop bleeding. It will lose 
> its international standing and will not be trusted for a couple of 
> generations. This will also put US at the same level as several South 
> American countries. The damages to the national pride, will be far 
> larger than the actual national economic damages. EU will be the 
> worlds economic super power, followed by Russia and China.> 
> You will see effects like the depression in the 30's and a lot of 
> suicides, as it was then. You will also see a lot of price regulation 
> on domestic produce.> > Hakan> > At 16:19 
30/05/2006, you wrote:>>Joe Street asks, Is there anything we at home 
can do to help speed >>this process? :)>>I suggest: Implore 
your Federal representatives to continue raising >>the debt ceiling, 
to continue supporting the war in Iraq and >>Afghanistan, to start 
another war in Iran, etc etc.  Or better, >>don't waste your 
time.  Instead, I ask you, Joe, and the List, how >>do you 
believe the average "Joe" should prepare for the inevitable >>demise 
of the US dollar???  I'm not trying to be facetious.  I'm 
>>asking a real question, seeking a real answer.  Might not like 
the >>answer, but I'd like to hear.  Also, Keith, how will Japan 
be >>affected?  Japan is one of the largest holders of US 
Debt.  Mike DuPree>>>>- Original Message 
->>From: "Joe Street" >><<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>>To: <<mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org>biofuel@sustainablelists.org>>>Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2006 8:29 
AM>>Subject: [SPAMPROB:51%] Re: [Biofuel] threat to U.S. 
dollar>>>> > Is there anything we at home can do to help 
speed this process? :)>> >>> > Joe>> 
>>> > AltEnergyNetwork wrote:>> >>> 
>>>> >> < >> <http://www.vheadline.com/readnews.asp?id=58951>http://www.vheadline.com/readnews.asp?id=58951  >>  >>> 
>>>> >>>> >> Threat against the US$ comes 
from countries such as Iran>> >> and Venezuela...>> 
>>>> >> Former Nordland University (Norway) associate 
professor,>> >>  Dr. Abbas Bakhtiar writes:  On 
Wednesday, May 17, the>> >> Dow Jones plunged 214 points to 
11,206 -- its worst point>> >>  drop since March 2003. The 
downward trend started a week>> >>  ago and is a warning 
sign of troubles ahead. This sudden>> >>  drop has come as 
a complete surprise to the unfortunate>> >>  small 
investors and speculators. The so called "experts">> >

Re: [Biofuel] [SPAMPROB:51%] Re: threat to U.S. dollar

[Hakan Falk]

Mike,

It is not like US will implode, it can still largely maintain prices 
on domestic products. Imports will however effect price levels and 
domestic production that use large amounts of energy, will have to 
correct pricing. Since US is importing a lot of the energy use and 
also that the domestic energy production will follow the world 
markets, it is a much that will be effected. The US export will be 
effected positively and offset some of the negatives as a nation, but 
the average Joe will see this as negative and lowering of living standard.

US will see a rush to buy US properties, companies and corporations 
by foreigners, which will be cheap and a way to use the large $ 
holdings. This will be a circus and US will try, within the limits, 
to stop this owner shifts. If they do nothing, it will be bad and if 
they do too much, it will be worse for the possibility of future recuperation.

US will not afford any more Iraq adventures and have to get out of 
the existing ones as soon as possible, to stop bleeding. It will lose 
its international standing and will not be trusted for a couple of 
generations. This will also put US at the same level as several South 
American countries. The damages to the national pride, will be far 
larger than the actual national economic damages. EU will be the 
worlds economic super power, followed by Russia and China.

You will see effects like the depression in the 30's and a lot of 
suicides, as it was then. You will also see a lot of price regulation 
on domestic produce.

Hakan

At 16:19 30/05/2006, you wrote:
>Joe Street asks, Is there anything we at home can do to help speed 
>this process? :)
>I suggest: Implore your Federal representatives to continue raising 
>the debt ceiling, to continue supporting the war in Iraq and 
>Afghanistan, to start another war in Iran, etc etc.  Or better, 
>don't waste your time.  Instead, I ask you, Joe, and the List, how 
>do you believe the average "Joe" should prepare for the inevitable 
>demise of the US dollar???  I'm not trying to be facetious.  I'm 
>asking a real question, seeking a real answer.  Might not like the 
>answer, but I'd like to hear.  Also, Keith, how will Japan be 
>affected?  Japan is one of the largest holders of US Debt.  Mike DuPree
>
>- Original Message -
>From: "Joe Street" 
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: <biofuel@sustainablelists.org>
>Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2006 8:29 AM
>Subject: [SPAMPROB:51%] Re: [Biofuel] threat to U.S. dollar
>
> > Is there anything we at home can do to help speed this process? :)
> >
> > Joe
> >
> > AltEnergyNetwork wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> < 
> http://www.vheadline.com/readnews.asp?id=58951
>   
>  >
> >>
> >>
> >> Threat against the US$ comes from countries such as Iran
> >> and Venezuela...
> >>
> >> Former Nordland University (Norway) associate professor,
> >>  Dr. Abbas Bakhtiar writes:  On Wednesday, May 17, the
> >> Dow Jones plunged 214 points to 11,206 -- its worst point
> >>  drop since March 2003. The downward trend started a week
> >>  ago and is a warning sign of troubles ahead. This sudden
> >>  drop has come as a complete surprise to the unfortunate
> >>  small investors and speculators. The so called "experts"
> >> point at the sudden threat of inflation as the main cause
> >>  of the recent reversals in the markets.
> >>
> >> What is actually surprising is the surprise of the
> >>  "experts." A cursory look at the United States' finances
> >>  will reveal the amount of pressure that its economy is
> >>  under.
> >>
> >> When Bush became president in 2001, the United States'
> >>  public debt was 5.8 trillion dollars. Today the public
> >>  debt stands at US$8.3 trillion. Of this over $2.2
> >>  trillion are held by foreigners.  The United States
> >>  has a GDP of $12.4 trillion ... this gives the US a
> >>  Debt/GDP ratio of 66%, placing it in 35th place
> >> (out of 113) in the ranking of the Debtor Nations.
> >>
> >> The current account deficit of over 7% has long passed
> >>  its danger levels of 4-5%. In 2005 the US government
> >>  paid $325 billion only in interest payments alone.
> >> Then, there are the future obligations such as Medicare,
> >>  Social Security and government pensions. These obligations 
> amount to $54 trillion. This huge problem worried the former 
> Federal Reserve Chairman, Alan Greenspan. He told congress: "As a 
> nation, we may have already made promises to coming generations of 
> retirees that we will be unable to fulfil."
> >>
> >> One would think that this amount of debt would worry the
> >>  president and the congress ... but apparently it does not. The 
> United States' Congress recently (March 2006) voted to increase the 
> Federal debt limit to $9 trillion. Any other nation in similar 
> circumstances would have had to approach IMF for help. The IMF 
> would then have forced that nation to cut spending and 

Re: [Biofuel] [SPAMPROB:51%] Re: threat to U.S. dollar

[M&K DuPree]

Joe Street asks, Is there anything we at 
home can do to help speed this process? :)
I suggest: Implore your 
Federal representatives to continue raising the debt ceiling, to continue 
supporting the war in Iraq and Afghanistan, to start another war in Iran, etc 
etc.  Or better, don't waste your time.  Instead, I ask you, Joe, and 
the List, how do you believe the average "Joe" should prepare for the inevitable 
demise of the US dollar???  I'm not trying to be facetious.  I'm 
asking a real question, seeking a real answer.  Might not like the answer, 
but I'd like to hear.  Also, Keith, how will Japan be affected?  Japan 
is one of the largest holders of US Debt.  Mike DuPree
 
- Original Message - 
From: "Joe Street" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2006 8:29 
AM
Subject: [SPAMPROB:51%] Re: [Biofuel] 
threat to U.S. dollar
> Is there anything we at home can do to help 
speed this process? :)> > Joe> > AltEnergyNetwork 
wrote:> >> >> < http://www.vheadline.com/readnews.asp?id=58951 >>> >> >> Threat 
against the US$ comes from countries such as Iran >> and 
Venezuela...>> >> Former Nordland University (Norway) 
associate professor,>>  Dr. Abbas Bakhtiar writes:  On 
Wednesday, May 17, the >> Dow Jones plunged 214 points to 11,206 -- 
its worst point>>  drop since March 2003. The downward trend 
started a week>>  ago and is a warning sign of troubles ahead. 
This sudden>>  drop has come as a complete surprise to the 
unfortunate>>  small investors and speculators. The so called 
“experts” >> point at the sudden threat of inflation as the main 
cause>>  of the recent reversals in the markets. >> 
>> What is actually surprising is the surprise of 
the>>  “experts." A cursory look at the United States’ 
finances>>  will reveal the amount of pressure that its economy 
is>>  under. >> >> When Bush became president 
in 2001, the United States’>>  public debt was 5.8 trillion 
dollars. Today the public>>  debt stands at US$8.3 trillion. Of 
this over $2.2>>  trillion are held by foreigners.  The 
United States>>  has a GDP of $12.4 trillion ... this gives the 
US a>>  Debt/GDP ratio of 66%, placing it in 35th place 
>> (out of 113) in the ranking of the Debtor Nations.>> 
>> The current account deficit of over 7% has long 
passed>>  its danger levels of 4-5%. In 2005 the US 
government>>  paid $325 billion only in interest payments alone. 
>> Then, there are the future obligations such as 
Medicare,>>  Social Security and government pensions. These 
obligations amount to $54 trillion. This huge problem worried the former Federal 
Reserve Chairman, Alan Greenspan. He told congress: “As a nation, we may have 
already made promises to coming generations of retirees that we will be unable 
to fulfil.”>> >> One would think that this amount of debt 
would worry the>>  president and the congress ... but apparently 
it does not. The United States’ Congress recently (March 2006) voted to increase 
the Federal debt limit to $9 trillion. Any other nation in similar circumstances 
would have had to approach IMF for help. The IMF would then have forced that 
nation to cut spending and devalue its currency ... but US does not need to do 
this. The US can just print some more dollars.>> >> But how 
long can this continue before the world loose>>  faith in the 
greenback, sending it crashing to >> unimaginable levels. >> 
>> The Asian Lender >> >> The Asian countries such 
as Japan, China and others>>  that hold most of the US debts have 
been happy to >> indulge the American deficit spending. This has 
been>>  a two-way Street, America has kept its market 
open>> to their products and they have financed the 
Americans’>>  spending. >> >> The value of US 
dollar so far has been kept artificially>>  high by Japan, China 
and oil-exporting countries. >> These countries by buying US debts 
have has kept >> interests rates relatively low in the United 
States>>  and allowed Americans to keep spending even as 
their>>  debts mount. >> >> But there is only 
so much risk these lenders >> (Asian and oil-exporting countries) are 
willing to>>  take. Any serious devaluation of the US$ 
will>>  considerably reduce the value of their 
national>>  reserves (mostly kept in dollars) and the 
value>>  of their debt holdings (certificates, bonds, 
etc.).>>  At the same time, the devaluation will affect 
their>>  exports to the US. >> >> A weaker 
dollar makes their products more expensive >> in US, thereby reducing 
their export earnings. >> Most Asian countries keep up to 70% of their 
reserves>>  in dollars. China with the reserves of over $800 
billion>>  has already begun to slowly reduce its dependency on 
>> dollars by converting part of its reserves to other >> 
currencies. >> >> If other Asian countries -- with their 
vast dollar >> holdings -- follow suit, then it will be 
disastrous>>  for the value of dollar. Nobody is interested 
in>>  holding a weakening currency. >> >> 
Petro-D