Re: [Biofuel] Lawn question off topic
Costs zippo for raw cut and dried tobacco here, about US$2 per kilogram. I tried the mix of one handful of this to one gallon of water and let sit for 4 hours, added a little sunlight detergent and sprayed lightly on some plants last night, this morning there is no sign of any side effects on the plant and also no sign of them nibblers that were eating the palms. (easy to grow palms here, very very hard to grow grapes). If by days end still no detrimental signs on the palms then will try a little on the grape vines. At the rate I am going 1 Kg will make about 18 gallons of the bug runner. The initial lot was a very light yellowish color so last night I mixed more and over night it has gone to a very dark brown. I think I can dilute it by about 1:1 to bring it back to what it was yesturday which then means by leaving it standing for more than 12 hours I can double the 18 gallons per kg. All up is then less than US$3 for 36 gallons of grub off or grub gone. How many dollars it costs per gallon is hardly the point. Tobacco was outlawed before DDT??? Could this be due to US Commercial/Industrial interests and not the fault of the tobacco. Any one can grow tobacco but not every one can make DDT and pesticides. More information/discussion would be a help here Not really. Unless you think organic pesticides are useful, and I'm not the only one trying to tell you that pesticides are useless, whether organic or not. The badge of the amateur. Learn how to make fertile soil that's capable of growing healthy plants that don't need pesticides. If you want to know more about organic pesticides there's plenty of information available on using nicotine, derris, rotenone, pyrethrum, quassia, sulphur, bordeaux mixture, potassium permanganate, soft soap and FA soap, and so on and on, but it's just another blind alley. Best Keith Doug From: JJJN [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 10:33 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Lawn question off topic I was going to mix some of this up about 7 years ago, It so happened that I asked a farmer about it and he told me that it would really work good but he also said in a joking way don't let the Government catch you. I took the bait and said why its all natural? He laughed and said that nicotine was the first commercial pesticide and it was also the first one ever banned in the US. I don't have any proof if what he said was true but the point is natural / organic stuff can be as bad as anything else if it is not used responsibly. Jim Keith Addison wrote: Will this kill the bugs busy eating away my precious grape vines and shade area without harming the vine. That is used tobacco and some soap liquid mixed with water and pump it from a hand sprayer? Got sunlight soap here for the dishes, lemon scent even. Summary. 1/ 1 gallon of water/juice extracted from cigarette butts. 2/ 1 cup of liquid soap normally used for dishes. 3/ Mix, strain and spray on my grape vine. 4/ Do not do this in the kitchen with other cooks present. Doug Nicotine will kill everything else too, including the bugs that eat the bugs eating your grapevines. It won't kill the vines though. Best Keith - Original Message - From: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Fred Finch To: mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 7:47 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Lawn question off topic Jim, Instead of ammonia, get a pack of chewing tobacco. Soak it in a gallon of water for a day in the sun. Strain the tobacco out and then add the dish soap. Spray it on the buggies. The nicotine is absorbed into the little critters and they die. The plants don't care either way about the stuff. I do this on the roses that I have. Works great. Another thing that I have done is grabbed the coffee can of butts that my nieghbor had. He thinks I am nutz anyway but the look on his face when I asked him for them was priceless. I soaked that for a day then strained that. Worked as well as the chewing tobacco and was free. Smelled nasty but did the trick just the same. fred On 6/18/06, JJJN mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Robert, I was told that if you take one cup Lemon dish soap and mix with one cup lemon ammonia and spray like you would with a pesticide bottle that you hook on the end of a garden hose. At first I thought the idea sounded good but then what is in all that stuff? and if it kills the bad guys whats it doing to the good ones. Have you heard of this? What do you think? I tested a tiny bit on some catipillers and it sure killed them and quick, but again that would not be the entire goal if the product screws up 10 other cycles to do so. I wish I knew more about bugs. I suppose you may have some luck if you can apply it in a way
Re: [Biofuel] Lawn question off topic
Costs zippo for raw cut and dried tobacco here, about US$2 per kilogram. I tried the mix of one handful of this to one gallon of water and let sit for 4 hours, added a little sunlight detergent and sprayed lightly on some plants last night, this morning there is no sign of any side effects on the plant and also no sign of them nibblers that were eating the palms. (easy to grow palms here, very very hard to grow grapes). If by days end still no detrimental signs on the palms then will try a little on the grape vines. At the rate I am going 1 Kg will make about 18 gallons of the bug runner. The initial lot was a very light yellowish color so last night I mixed more and over night it has gone to a very dark brown. I think I can dilute it by about 1:1 to bring it back to what it was yesturday which then means by leaving it standing for more than 12 hours I can double the 18 gallons per kg. All up is then less than US$3 for 36 gallons of grub off or grub gone. Tobacco was outlawed before DDT??? Could this be due to US Commercial/Industrial interests and not the fault of the tobacco. Any one can grow tobacco but not every one can make DDT and pesticides. More information/discussion would be a help here Doug From: JJJN [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 10:33 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Lawn question off topic I was going to mix some of this up about 7 years ago, It so happened that I asked a farmer about it and he told me that it would really work good but he also said in a joking way don't let the Government catch you. I took the bait and said why its all natural? He laughed and said that nicotine was the first commercial pesticide and it was also the first one ever banned in the US. I don't have any proof if what he said was true but the point is natural / organic stuff can be as bad as anything else if it is not used responsibly. Jim Keith Addison wrote: Will this kill the bugs busy eating away my precious grape vines and shade area without harming the vine. That is used tobacco and some soap liquid mixed with water and pump it from a hand sprayer? Got sunlight soap here for the dishes, lemon scent even. Summary. 1/ 1 gallon of water/juice extracted from cigarette butts. 2/ 1 cup of liquid soap normally used for dishes. 3/ Mix, strain and spray on my grape vine. 4/ Do not do this in the kitchen with other cooks present. Doug Nicotine will kill everything else too, including the bugs that eat the bugs eating your grapevines. It won't kill the vines though. Best Keith - Original Message - From: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Fred Finch To: mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 7:47 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Lawn question off topic Jim, Instead of ammonia, get a pack of chewing tobacco. Soak it in a gallon of water for a day in the sun. Strain the tobacco out and then add the dish soap. Spray it on the buggies. The nicotine is absorbed into the little critters and they die. The plants don't care either way about the stuff. I do this on the roses that I have. Works great. Another thing that I have done is grabbed the coffee can of butts that my nieghbor had. He thinks I am nutz anyway but the look on his face when I asked him for them was priceless. I soaked that for a day then strained that. Worked as well as the chewing tobacco and was free. Smelled nasty but did the trick just the same. fred On 6/18/06, JJJN mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Robert, I was told that if you take one cup Lemon dish soap and mix with one cup lemon ammonia and spray like you would with a pesticide bottle that you hook on the end of a garden hose. At first I thought the idea sounded good but then what is in all that stuff? and if it kills the bad guys whats it doing to the good ones. Have you heard of this? What do you think? I tested a tiny bit on some catipillers and it sure killed them and quick, but again that would not be the entire goal if the product screws up 10 other cycles to do so. I wish I knew more about bugs. I suppose you may have some luck if you can apply it in a way that was to the single point missing everything else. Jim robert and benita rabello wrote: Chris Lloyd wrote: Some compost has virtually no ability to fertilise anything, I got caught out this year with the half ton I got for growing tomatoes in. It was supposed to be composted household waste and tree leaves, looked good, smelt good and will probably make a good soil improver but I had to start adding chicken poo to save the tomatoes. Perhaps the nutrients got washed out of it but I'm going back to rotted horse manure next year. Chris I've found that the commercial composts are sterilized with heat to kill weed seeds. This also kills all of the soil fauna
Re: [Biofuel] Lawn question off topic
Keith, Thanks for the help. So correct it is me interfering with my plant intrusions. The problem here is not with the grass, the trees or what is already here. The problem is trying to grow what is not meant to be here. Tried gardens in some hot tropical climates that turned into giant ant beds, the ants are there to do what worms would normally assist. Reality says I should not try and grow grapes where they don't want to grow or are a very weak and thus a susceptible plant to bugs etc due to location/climate. However, I like my grape vines, am pleased the bugs are on the out, and for the first time have got vines growing where they shouldn't be. At least there is no worries in them spreading and taking over the landscape such as Gorse introduced to NZ and other such growths. I figure my vines cover a small area. The rest of the plant life, other than the Norfolk pines, are native to here, all but, and thus are resistant enough to keep in good health without the use of pesticides. Life is one whole learning cycle thus we are all amateurs. 300 + years ago it was possible to read all books printed in the English Language, today this is an impossibility. No one has read all, no one has learnt all, thus we are in reality all amateurs, such is the fun of living. Asked about all my many and varied interests and work, to me it is all a side line, life is the real issue and what all the rest compiled enables me to make of it. An amateur I am very proud to be it assures I have more goals to attain in this world. Are we here to attain the answers or the questions? My thanks to all. Doug - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 1:13 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Lawn question off topic Costs zippo for raw cut and dried tobacco here, about US$2 per kilogram. I tried the mix of one handful of this to one gallon of water and let sit for 4 hours, added a little sunlight detergent and sprayed lightly on some plants last night, this morning there is no sign of any side effects on the plant and also no sign of them nibblers that were eating the palms. (easy to grow palms here, very very hard to grow grapes). If by days end still no detrimental signs on the palms then will try a little on the grape vines. At the rate I am going 1 Kg will make about 18 gallons of the bug runner. The initial lot was a very light yellowish color so last night I mixed more and over night it has gone to a very dark brown. I think I can dilute it by about 1:1 to bring it back to what it was yesturday which then means by leaving it standing for more than 12 hours I can double the 18 gallons per kg. All up is then less than US$3 for 36 gallons of grub off or grub gone. How many dollars it costs per gallon is hardly the point. Tobacco was outlawed before DDT??? Could this be due to US Commercial/Industrial interests and not the fault of the tobacco. Any one can grow tobacco but not every one can make DDT and pesticides. More information/discussion would be a help here Not really. Unless you think organic pesticides are useful, and I'm not the only one trying to tell you that pesticides are useless, whether organic or not. The badge of the amateur. Learn how to make fertile soil that's capable of growing healthy plants that don't need pesticides. If you want to know more about organic pesticides there's plenty of information available on using nicotine, derris, rotenone, pyrethrum, quassia, sulphur, bordeaux mixture, potassium permanganate, soft soap and FA soap, and so on and on, but it's just another blind alley. Best Keith Doug From: JJJN [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 10:33 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Lawn question off topic I was going to mix some of this up about 7 years ago, It so happened that I asked a farmer about it and he told me that it would really work good but he also said in a joking way don't let the Government catch you. I took the bait and said why its all natural? He laughed and said that nicotine was the first commercial pesticide and it was also the first one ever banned in the US. I don't have any proof if what he said was true but the point is natural / organic stuff can be as bad as anything else if it is not used responsibly. Jim Keith Addison wrote: Will this kill the bugs busy eating away my precious grape vines and shade area without harming the vine. That is used tobacco and some soap liquid mixed with water and pump it from a hand sprayer? Got sunlight soap here for the dishes, lemon scent even. Summary. 1/ 1 gallon of water/juice extracted from cigarette butts. 2/ 1 cup of liquid soap normally used for dishes. 3/ Mix, strain and spray on my grape vine. 4/ Do not do this in the kitchen with other cooks present. Doug Nicotine
Re: [Biofuel] Lawn question off topic
This may work for grapes but keep it the hell away from tomato plants or you'll find out what the tobaco mosaic virus is! Joe JJJN wrote: I was going to mix some of this up about 7 years ago, It so happened that I asked a farmer about it and he told me that it would really work good but he also said in a joking way don't let the Government catch you. I took the bait and said why its all natural? He laughed and said that nicotine was the first commercial pesticide and it was also the first one ever banned in the US. I don't have any proof if what he said was true but the point is natural / organic stuff can be as bad as anything else if it is not used responsibly. Jim Keith Addison wrote: Will this kill the bugs busy eating away my precious grape vines and shade area without harming the vine. That is used tobacco and some soap liquid mixed with water and pump it from a hand sprayer? Got sunlight soap here for the dishes, lemon scent even. Summary. 1/ 1 gallon of water/juice extracted from cigarette butts. 2/ 1 cup of liquid soap normally used for dishes. 3/ Mix, strain and spray on my grape vine. 4/ Do not do this in the kitchen with other cooks present. Doug Nicotine will kill everything else too, including the bugs that eat the bugs eating your grapevines. It won't kill the vines though. Best Keith - Original Message - From: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Fred Finch To: mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 7:47 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Lawn question off topic Jim, Instead of ammonia, get a pack of chewing tobacco. Soak it in a gallon of water for a day in the sun. Strain the tobacco out and then add the dish soap. Spray it on the buggies. The nicotine is absorbed into the little critters and they die. The plants don't care either way about the stuff. I do this on the roses that I have. Works great. Another thing that I have done is grabbed the coffee can of butts that my nieghbor had. He thinks I am nutz anyway but the look on his face when I asked him for them was priceless. I soaked that for a day then strained that. Worked as well as the chewing tobacco and was free. Smelled nasty but did the trick just the same. fred On 6/18/06, JJJN mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Robert, I was told that if you take one cup Lemon dish soap and mix with one cup lemon ammonia and spray like you would with a pesticide bottle that you hook on the end of a garden hose. At first I thought the idea sounded good but then what is in all that stuff? and if it kills the bad guys whats it doing to the good ones. Have you heard of this? What do you think? I tested a tiny bit on some catipillers and it sure killed them and quick, but again that would not be the entire goal if the product screws up 10 other cycles to do so. I wish I knew more about bugs. I suppose you may have some luck if you can apply it in a way that was to the single point missing everything else. Jim robert and benita rabello wrote: Chris Lloyd wrote: Some compost has virtually no ability to fertilise anything, I got caught out this year with the half ton I got for growing tomatoes in. It was supposed to be composted household waste and tree leaves, looked good, smelt good and will probably make a good soil improver but I had to start adding chicken poo to save the tomatoes. Perhaps the nutrients got washed out of it but I'm going back to rotted horse manure next year. Chris I've found that the commercial composts are sterilized with heat to kill weed seeds. This also kills all of the soil fauna, which is responsible for fertility. I made that mistake once, and since then I've relied on my own compost. My trees are happier (though I'm STILL have insect and fruit problems) and look far more lush than they have in the past. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Re: [Biofuel] Lawn question off topic
True! Even just smoking and then touching tomato plants will give them this leaf-rotting virus. Very hard on French-Canadians. Jesse On Jun 21, 2006, at 9:32 AM, Joe Street wrote: This may work for grapes but keep it the hell away from tomato plants or you'll find out what the tobaco mosaic virus is! Joe JJJN wrote: I was going to mix some of this up about 7 years ago, It so happened that I asked a farmer about it and he told me that it would really work good but he also said in a joking way don't let the Government catch you. I took the bait and said why its all natural? He laughed and said that nicotine was the first commercial pesticide and it was also the first one ever banned in the US. I don't have any proof if what he said was true but the point is natural / organic stuff can be as bad as anything else if it is not used responsibly. Jim Keith Addison wrote: Will this kill the bugs busy eating away my precious grape vines and shade area without harming the vine. That is used tobacco and some soap liquid mixed with water and pump it from a hand sprayer? Got sunlight soap here for the dishes, lemon scent even. Summary. 1/ 1 gallon of water/juice extracted from cigarette butts. 2/ 1 cup of liquid soap normally used for dishes. 3/ Mix, strain and spray on my grape vine. 4/ Do not do this in the kitchen with other cooks present. Doug Nicotine will kill everything else too, including the bugs that eat the bugs eating your grapevines. It won't kill the vines though. Best Keith - Original Message - From: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Fred Finch To: mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 7:47 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Lawn question off topic Jim, Instead of ammonia, get a pack of chewing tobacco. Soak it in a gallon of water for a day in the sun. Strain the tobacco out and then add the dish soap. Spray it on the buggies. The nicotine is absorbed into the little critters and they die. The plants don't care either way about the stuff. I do this on the roses that I have. Works great. Another thing that I have done is grabbed the coffee can of butts that my nieghbor had. He thinks I am nutz anyway but the look on his face when I asked him for them was priceless. I soaked that for a day then strained that. Worked as well as the chewing tobacco and was free. Smelled nasty but did the trick just the same. fred On 6/18/06, JJJN mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Robert, I was told that if you take one cup Lemon dish soap and mix with one cup lemon ammonia and spray like you would with a pesticide bottle that you hook on the end of a garden hose. At first I thought the idea sounded good but then what is in all that stuff? and if it kills the bad guys whats it doing to the good ones. Have you heard of this? What do you think? I tested a tiny bit on some catipillers and it sure killed them and quick, but again that would not be the entire goal if the product screws up 10 other cycles to do so. I wish I knew more about bugs. I suppose you may have some luck if you can apply it in a way that was to the single point missing everything else. Jim robert and benita rabello wrote: Chris Lloyd wrote: Some compost has virtually no ability to fertilise anything, I got caught out this year with the half ton I got for growing tomatoes in. It was supposed to be composted household waste and tree leaves, looked good, smelt good and will probably make a good soil improver but I had to start adding chicken poo to save the tomatoes. Perhaps the nutrients got washed out of it but I'm going back to rotted horse manure next year. Chris I've found that the commercial composts are sterilized with heat to kill weed seeds. This also kills all of the soil fauna, which is responsible for fertility. I made that mistake once, and since then I've relied on my own compost. My trees are happier (though I'm STILL have insect and fruit problems) and look far more lush than they have in the past. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/http://www.members.shaw.ca/ rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/ biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org
Re: [Biofuel] Lawn question off topic
Joe No worries only my grape vines, everything else seems to be very hardy and strong with good resistance. Not even the coconuts have the yellowing, same with the darn beetle nut. Thanks for the help will keep in mind but my vines I have tried for many years to grow 14 + years in Aus and 17 + here and now that I have some don't want them eaten. Not worried if they fruit or not, just good to see the vines here as I walk under them to my office several times each day. Doug - Original Message - From: Joe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 8:32 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Lawn question off topic This may work for grapes but keep it the hell away from tomato plants or you'll find out what the tobaco mosaic virus is! Joe JJJN wrote: I was going to mix some of this up about 7 years ago, It so happened that I asked a farmer about it and he told me that it would really work good but he also said in a joking way don't let the Government catch you. I took the bait and said why its all natural? He laughed and said that nicotine was the first commercial pesticide and it was also the first one ever banned in the US. I don't have any proof if what he said was true but the point is natural / organic stuff can be as bad as anything else if it is not used responsibly. Jim Keith Addison wrote: Will this kill the bugs busy eating away my precious grape vines and shade area without harming the vine. That is used tobacco and some soap liquid mixed with water and pump it from a hand sprayer? Got sunlight soap here for the dishes, lemon scent even. Summary. 1/ 1 gallon of water/juice extracted from cigarette butts. 2/ 1 cup of liquid soap normally used for dishes. 3/ Mix, strain and spray on my grape vine. 4/ Do not do this in the kitchen with other cooks present. Doug Nicotine will kill everything else too, including the bugs that eat the bugs eating your grapevines. It won't kill the vines though. Best Keith - Original Message - From: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Fred Finch To: mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 7:47 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Lawn question off topic Jim, Instead of ammonia, get a pack of chewing tobacco. Soak it in a gallon of water for a day in the sun. Strain the tobacco out and then add the dish soap. Spray it on the buggies. The nicotine is absorbed into the little critters and they die. The plants don't care either way about the stuff. I do this on the roses that I have. Works great. Another thing that I have done is grabbed the coffee can of butts that my nieghbor had. He thinks I am nutz anyway but the look on his face when I asked him for them was priceless. I soaked that for a day then strained that. Worked as well as the chewing tobacco and was free. Smelled nasty but did the trick just the same. fred On 6/18/06, JJJN mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Robert, I was told that if you take one cup Lemon dish soap and mix with one cup lemon ammonia and spray like you would with a pesticide bottle that you hook on the end of a garden hose. At first I thought the idea sounded good but then what is in all that stuff? and if it kills the bad guys whats it doing to the good ones. Have you heard of this? What do you think? I tested a tiny bit on some catipillers and it sure killed them and quick, but again that would not be the entire goal if the product screws up 10 other cycles to do so. I wish I knew more about bugs. I suppose you may have some luck if you can apply it in a way that was to the single point missing everything else. Jim robert and benita rabello wrote: Chris Lloyd wrote: Some compost has virtually no ability to fertilise anything, I got caught out this year with the half ton I got for growing tomatoes in. It was supposed to be composted household waste and tree leaves, looked good, smelt good and will probably make a good soil improver but I had to start adding chicken poo to save the tomatoes. Perhaps the nutrients got washed out of it but I'm going back to rotted horse manure next year. Chris I've found that the commercial composts are sterilized with heat to kill weed seeds. This also kills all of the soil fauna, which is responsible for fertility. I made that mistake once, and since then I've relied on my own compost. My trees are happier (though I'm STILL have insect and fruit problems) and look far more lush than they have in the past. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel
Re: [Biofuel] Lawn question off topic
Hello Doug Keith, Thanks for the help. So correct it is me interfering with my plant intrusions. The problem here is not with the grass, the trees or what is already here. The problem is trying to grow what is not meant to be here. Tried gardens in some hot tropical climates that turned into giant ant beds, the ants are there to do what worms would normally assist. Reality says I should not try and grow grapes where they don't want to grow or are a very weak and thus a susceptible plant to bugs etc due to location/climate. However, I like my grape vines, am pleased the bugs are on the out, and for the first time have got vines growing where they shouldn't be. At least there is no worries in them spreading and taking over the landscape such as Gorse introduced to NZ and other such growths. I figure my vines cover a small area. I didn't realise you're growing them just for some shade at the office entrance. The rest of the plant life, other than the Norfolk pines, are native to here, all but, and thus are resistant enough to keep in good health without the use of pesticides. That depends on the soil as much as anything. Life is one whole learning cycle thus we are all amateurs. I agree, in that sense it's the opposite of expert. But in the sense it was quoted it was the opposite of professional - a sneer at so-called professional farmers who spray everything all the time, because they truly are clueless. 300 + years ago it was possible to read all books printed in the English Language, today this is an impossibility. And yet so much knowledge has been and is being lost, and as individuals we are generally much less skilful today than we were a couple of generations ago, and, many of us, much more dependent. No one has read all, no one has learnt all, thus we are in reality all amateurs, If you take the reading away (not the only kind of knowledge) that was the case 300 years ago too. such is the fun of living. Indeed. Asked about all my many and varied interests and work, to me it is all a side line, life is the real issue and what all the rest compiled enables me to make of it. An amateur I am very proud to be it assures I have more goals to attain in this world. Are we here to attain the answers or the questions? Why choose? I can't imagine a forum that only did one but not the other. Best Keith My thanks to all. Doug - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 1:13 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Lawn question off topic Costs zippo for raw cut and dried tobacco here, about US$2 per kilogram. I tried the mix of one handful of this to one gallon of water and let sit for 4 hours, added a little sunlight detergent and sprayed lightly on some plants last night, this morning there is no sign of any side effects on the plant and also no sign of them nibblers that were eating the palms. (easy to grow palms here, very very hard to grow grapes). If by days end still no detrimental signs on the palms then will try a little on the grape vines. At the rate I am going 1 Kg will make about 18 gallons of the bug runner. The initial lot was a very light yellowish color so last night I mixed more and over night it has gone to a very dark brown. I think I can dilute it by about 1:1 to bring it back to what it was yesturday which then means by leaving it standing for more than 12 hours I can double the 18 gallons per kg. All up is then less than US$3 for 36 gallons of grub off or grub gone. How many dollars it costs per gallon is hardly the point. Tobacco was outlawed before DDT??? Could this be due to US Commercial/Industrial interests and not the fault of the tobacco. Any one can grow tobacco but not every one can make DDT and pesticides. More information/discussion would be a help here Not really. Unless you think organic pesticides are useful, and I'm not the only one trying to tell you that pesticides are useless, whether organic or not. The badge of the amateur. Learn how to make fertile soil that's capable of growing healthy plants that don't need pesticides. If you want to know more about organic pesticides there's plenty of information available on using nicotine, derris, rotenone, pyrethrum, quassia, sulphur, bordeaux mixture, potassium permanganate, soft soap and FA soap, and so on and on, but it's just another blind alley. Best Keith Doug From: JJJN [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 10:33 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Lawn question off topic I was going to mix some of this up about 7 years ago, It so happened that I asked a farmer about it and he told me that it would really work good but he also said in a joking way don't let the Government catch you. I took the bait and said why its all natural? He laughed and said that nicotine
Re: [Biofuel] Lawn question off topic
I was going to mix some of this up about 7 years ago, It so happened that I asked a farmer about it and he told me that it would really work good but he also said in a joking way don't let the Government catch you. I took the bait and said why its all natural? He laughed and said that nicotine was the first commercial pesticide and it was also the first one ever banned in the US. I don't have any proof if what he said was true but the point is natural / organic stuff can be as bad as anything else if it is not used responsibly. Jim Keith Addison wrote: Will this kill the bugs busy eating away my precious grape vines and shade area without harming the vine. That is used tobacco and some soap liquid mixed with water and pump it from a hand sprayer? Got sunlight soap here for the dishes, lemon scent even. Summary. 1/ 1 gallon of water/juice extracted from cigarette butts. 2/ 1 cup of liquid soap normally used for dishes. 3/ Mix, strain and spray on my grape vine. 4/ Do not do this in the kitchen with other cooks present. Doug Nicotine will kill everything else too, including the bugs that eat the bugs eating your grapevines. It won't kill the vines though. Best Keith - Original Message - From: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Fred Finch To: mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 7:47 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Lawn question off topic Jim, Instead of ammonia, get a pack of chewing tobacco. Soak it in a gallon of water for a day in the sun. Strain the tobacco out and then add the dish soap. Spray it on the buggies. The nicotine is absorbed into the little critters and they die. The plants don't care either way about the stuff. I do this on the roses that I have. Works great. Another thing that I have done is grabbed the coffee can of butts that my nieghbor had. He thinks I am nutz anyway but the look on his face when I asked him for them was priceless. I soaked that for a day then strained that. Worked as well as the chewing tobacco and was free. Smelled nasty but did the trick just the same. fred On 6/18/06, JJJN mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Robert, I was told that if you take one cup Lemon dish soap and mix with one cup lemon ammonia and spray like you would with a pesticide bottle that you hook on the end of a garden hose. At first I thought the idea sounded good but then what is in all that stuff? and if it kills the bad guys whats it doing to the good ones. Have you heard of this? What do you think? I tested a tiny bit on some catipillers and it sure killed them and quick, but again that would not be the entire goal if the product screws up 10 other cycles to do so. I wish I knew more about bugs. I suppose you may have some luck if you can apply it in a way that was to the single point missing everything else. Jim robert and benita rabello wrote: Chris Lloyd wrote: Some compost has virtually no ability to fertilise anything, I got caught out this year with the half ton I got for growing tomatoes in. It was supposed to be composted household waste and tree leaves, looked good, smelt good and will probably make a good soil improver but I had to start adding chicken poo to save the tomatoes. Perhaps the nutrients got washed out of it but I'm going back to rotted horse manure next year. Chris I've found that the commercial composts are sterilized with heat to kill weed seeds. This also kills all of the soil fauna, which is responsible for fertility. I made that mistake once, and since then I've relied on my own compost. My trees are happier (though I'm STILL have insect and fruit problems) and look far more lush than they have in the past. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Lawn question off topic
Are we lucky or what? The cost of compost is quite cheap here and as such is not sterilized or cooked just mixed and left for the worms and nature with some mechanical help. Good compost most times. Have used some local and some of my own compost to grow grape vines, 8 vines, of different sorts. The vines are now doing extremely well and have formed a shade over a walk way. The shade in the last few days has been decreasing through voluntary addition of some real fat bugs of the multi legged type nibbling away at my prized grape vines. Never thought that grape vines would grow here. High humidity, very hot and very wet in the wet season and very dry in the dry season. However for some reason this is my first spot of luck with growing grape vines as shade. What such a benefit if by some freak twist the vines might produce some grapes this will be the ultimate in my many years of grape sagas. Never ever eaten one of my own home grown grapes as never seem to be able to have grown them before. I would like to get rid of the bugs, like compost them or some such. Any one know of a non chemical way of dislodging such unwelcome lodgers/habitants or encouraging them to migrate/immigrate to other sources of fattening away from my precious grape vines? My Norfolk pines are doing real well on local compost as are many other plants/trees. Have had zero luck at this level with radiata pine no matter what soils, I think this is more due to the heat and humidity changes. Doug - Original Message - From: robert and benita rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 5:18 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Lawn question off topic Chris Lloyd wrote: Some compost has virtually no ability to fertilise anything, I got caught out this year with the half ton I got for growing tomatoes in. It was supposed to be composted household waste and tree leaves, looked good, smelt good and will probably make a good soil improver but I had to start adding chicken poo to save the tomatoes. Perhaps the nutrients got washed out of it but I'm going back to rotted horse manure next year. Chris I've found that the commercial composts are sterilized with heat to kill weed seeds. This also kills all of the soil fauna, which is responsible for fertility. I made that mistake once, and since then I've relied on my own compost. My trees are happier (though I'm STILL have insect and fruit problems) and look far more lush than they have in the past. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Information from NOD32 This message was checked by NOD32 Antivirus System for Linux Mail Servers. part000.txt - is OK http://www.eset.com Information from NOD32 This message was checked by NOD32 Antivirus System for Linux Mail Servers. part000.txt - is OK http://www.eset.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Lawn question off topic
If you get rotted horse manure next year (rotted being a word that covers a host of sins) use it to make compost. We used to have a nice local farmer who used straw to bed the horses down in and he just piled the old bedding up in one long 25 ton heap so the old end was about 5 years old. Great for growing tomatoes and full of tasty rabbits but this winter the district council said it was an environmental hazard because it was only 50 yards from the highway and had to be cleared away. It is getting bloody silly here in the UK these days. Chris. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Lawn question off topic
I have to agree here. I kept an organic lawn for 10 years. I used a mulching mower to put the clippings back into the lawn and used the mower on its tallest setting. The rare time I watered (which wasn't often even though I lived in Dallas with its 100F avg temps in the summer), I watered deeply - but mostly I let the lawn go dormant in the summer. None of the neighbors complained and not that I would have cared anyway. In the fall all the leaves from the trees went into compost piles and then in the spring or fall or whenever it suited, it was sifted through a 1/2 sifter, shovelled into a spreader and on it went on top of the grass. Compost is a great 'fertiliser'. It is slow releasing and is nicely balanced in all nutrients. You don't need to water it in and you can never overapply. There are no worries from any runoff. Contrary to some misconceptions about compost - it can never get too hot - the heat is from the micro-organisms who are doing the work of breaking the organic material down. They thrive on moisture and air and they produce heat as a by-product. The more heat, the faster the breakdown. There is no need to apply heat. The heat is a byproduct, not an input to compost.. Blowing hot air through compost, is, well, a lot of hot air. If anyone is in doubt of the power of compost, try this for a summer project: sneak out to a sports field with a spreader full of compost and in huge letters, spell out your favorite team's name ( or whatever!) on the pitch and then watch what happens for the rest of the season! Compost is a natural product. As long as the source is organic, home made compost is better than anything you would have normally used instead. Steve On Monday 19 June 2006 06:11 am, DB wrote: you don't have to grind compost really fine to spread it on your lawn...break it down to about 1/2 in particles and rake it in with a wide rake. I have a one acre lot with lots of grass, orchard and garden. I only weed the garden and only mow the grass. living in the city means your lawn needs to be as nice or better than your neighbors, but that is really just an ego problem. my lawn looks just fine to me...Your lawn probabily would look just fine to me too.DB - Original Message - From: robert and benita rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 7:46 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Lawn question off topic JJJN wrote: Hello folks, any organic lawn experts out there? I have been encroaching out 75% of my lawn with food plants for both wildlife and humans, but I still have this 25% and living in town I need to keep it lawn. the question is how does one raise a great lawn without weed killers etc? I have been wondering , can you take compost and grind it really fine and spread it on the lawn water it in? Would this be good? I don't think this is off topic, as it relates directly to the mentality of dirt as a growing medium that is so pervasive and lies at the root of much difficulty in our society. I've actually had a lawn professional suggest that I rip out my lawn and replace it with garden. You seem to be more successful at growing vegetables than grass, he said. I've aereated my lawn this year and watered with mixture of compost tea and organic compost enhancement liquid. It's much greener and healthier than it's been in the past, but this method still smacks of replacing chemical fertilizers with non chemical fertilizers. It's not that I hate grass, but I'm NOT pleased with the monoculture mentality that insists it must be of a uniform species. When we first bought this property it was covered in grasses that were long and made a lovely sound as the seed heads touseled in the wind. But now, I keep the motley collection of grasses that pass for lawn on my property trimmed to 55 millimeters. If anyone has better ideas for lawn maintenance that will not raise the ire of my neighbors (who already think I'm weird), please let me know. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Re: [Biofuel] Lawn question off topic
Jim, Instead of ammonia, get a pack of chewing tobacco. Soak it in a gallon of water for a day in the sun. Strain the tobacco out and then add the dish soap. Spray it on the buggies. The nicotine is absorbed into the little critters and they die. The plants don't care either way about the stuff. I do this on the roses that I have. Works great. Another thing that I have done is grabbed the coffee can of butts that my nieghbor had. He thinks I am nutz anyway but the look on his face when I asked him for them was priceless. I soaked that for a day then strained that. Worked as well as the chewing tobacco and was free. Smelled nasty but did the trick just the same. fredOn 6/18/06, JJJN [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Robert,I was told that if you take one cup Lemon dish soap and mix with one cuplemon ammonia and spray like you would with a pesticide bottle that youhook on the end of a garden hose.At first I thought the idea sounded good but then what is in all that stuff? and if it kills the bad guyswhats it doing to the good ones. Have you heard of this? What do youthink?I tested a tiny bit on some catipillers and it sure killed them and quick, but again that would not be the entire goal if the productscrews up 10 other cycles to do so. I wish I knew more about bugs.Isuppose you may have some luck if you can apply it in a way that was to the single point missing everything else.Jimrobert and benita rabello wrote:Chris Lloyd wrote:Some compost has virtually no ability to fertilise anything, I got caught out this year with the half ton I got for growing tomatoes in. It wassupposed to be composted household waste and tree leaves, looked good, smeltgood and will probably make a good soil improver but I had to start adding chicken poo to save the tomatoes. Perhaps the nutrients got washed out of itbut I'm going back to rotted horse manure next year. ChrisI've found that the commercial composts are sterilized with heat to kill weed seeds.This also kills all of the soil fauna, which isresponsible for fertility.I made that mistake once, and since thenI've relied on my own compost.My trees are happier (though I'm STILL have insect and fruit problems) and look far more lush than they have inthe past.robert luis rabelloThe Edge of JusticeAdventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.caRanger Supercharger Project Pagehttp://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/___ Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/___Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Lawn question off topic
Will this kill the bugs busy eating away my precious grape vines and shade area without harming the vine. That is used tobacco and some soap liquid mixed with water and pump it from a hand sprayer? Got sunlight soap here for the dishes, lemon scent even. Summary. 1/ 1 gallon of water/juice extracted from cigarette butts. 2/ 1 cup of liquid soap normally used for dishes. 3/Mix, strainand spray on my grape vine. 4/ Do not do this in the kitchen with other cooks present. Doug - Original Message - From: Fred Finch To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 7:47 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Lawn question off topic Jim, Instead of ammonia, get a pack of chewing tobacco. Soak it in a gallon of water for a day in the sun. Strain the tobacco out and then add the dish soap. Spray it on the buggies. The nicotine is absorbed into the little critters and they die. The plants don't care either way about the stuff. I do this on the roses that I have. Works great. Another thing that I have done is grabbed the coffee can of butts that my nieghbor had. He thinks I am nutz anyway but the look on his face when I asked him for them was priceless. I soaked that for a day then strained that. Worked as well as the chewing tobacco and was free. Smelled nasty but did the trick just the same. fred On 6/18/06, JJJN [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Robert,I was told that if you take one cup Lemon dish soap and mix with one cuplemon ammonia and spray like you would with a pesticide bottle that youhook on the end of a garden hose.At first I thought the idea sounded good but then what is in all that stuff? and if it kills the bad guyswhats it doing to the good ones. Have you heard of this? What do youthink?I tested a tiny bit on some catipillers and it sure killed themand quick, but again that would not be the entire goal if the productscrews up 10 other cycles to do so. I wish I knew more about bugs.Isuppose you may have some luck if you can apply it in a way that was tothe single point missing everything else.Jimrobert and benita rabello wrote:Chris Lloyd wrote:Some compost has virtually no ability to fertilise anything, I got caught out this year with the half ton I got for growing tomatoes in. It wassupposed to be composted household waste and tree leaves, looked good, smeltgood and will probably make a good soil improver but I had to start adding chicken poo to save the tomatoes. Perhaps the nutrients got washed out of itbut I'm going back to rotted horse manure next year. ChrisI've found that the commercial composts are sterilized with heat to kill weed seeds.This also kills all of the soil fauna, which isresponsible for fertility.I made that mistake once, and since thenI've relied on my own compost.My trees are happier (though I'm STILL have insect and fruit problems) and look far more lush than they have inthe past.robert luis rabello"The Edge of Justice"Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.caRanger Supercharger Project Pagehttp://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/___ Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/___Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Information from NOD32 This message was checked by NOD32 Antivirus System for Linux Mail Servers. - is OK part000.txt - is OK part001.htm - is OK part001.txt - is OKhttp://www.eset.com Information from NOD32 This message was checked by NOD32 Antivirus System for Linux Mail Servers. part000.txt - is OK part001.htm - is OK http://www.eset.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailma
Re: [Biofuel] Lawn question off topic
Maybe out of line/subject here. Would like to know where to find the Pros and Cons about Silage as an animal feed in comparison to dry hay and non processed fodder. Seems some silage makes for a bad smell once the heap is opened, not savory at all, and yet cows will eat it okay. How does this compare with dry hay, licks and molasses. Is this a worm free base? Seems to be full of rotten grass and nothing but. As below I can agree for sure some composting materials will reach 80 + Deg C especially in dry ground pit decomposition, this in turn is used to kill off some of the bad bugs like parasites and such in some waste disposal systems where bacterial action causes the heat. Example, the snail shell type toilets constructed as pit toilets in some parts were designed not only for the bacteria to break down the occupying mass but was also used to kill the mosquitoes in the down draft caused by the chimney height through the long drop hole. (the mosquitoes were killed in the heat of the chimney as it was blocked with a mosquito screen stopping the poor mozzy from escaping the cooking. Doug - Original Message - From: Steve Racz [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 6:24 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Lawn question off topic I have to agree here. I kept an organic lawn for 10 years. I used a mulching mower to put the clippings back into the lawn and used the mower on its tallest setting. The rare time I watered (which wasn't often even though I lived in Dallas with its 100F avg temps in the summer), I watered deeply - but mostly I let the lawn go dormant in the summer. None of the neighbors complained and not that I would have cared anyway. In the fall all the leaves from the trees went into compost piles and then in the spring or fall or whenever it suited, it was sifted through a 1/2 sifter, shovelled into a spreader and on it went on top of the grass. Compost is a great 'fertiliser'. It is slow releasing and is nicely balanced in all nutrients. You don't need to water it in and you can never overapply. There are no worries from any runoff. Contrary to some misconceptions about compost - it can never get too hot - the heat is from the micro-organisms who are doing the work of breaking the organic material down. They thrive on moisture and air and they produce heat as a by-product. The more heat, the faster the breakdown. There is no need to apply heat. The heat is a byproduct, not an input to compost.. Blowing hot air through compost, is, well, a lot of hot air. If anyone is in doubt of the power of compost, try this for a summer project: sneak out to a sports field with a spreader full of compost and in huge letters, spell out your favorite team's name ( or whatever!) on the pitch and then watch what happens for the rest of the season! Compost is a natural product. As long as the source is organic, home made compost is better than anything you would have normally used instead. Steve On Monday 19 June 2006 06:11 am, DB wrote: you don't have to grind compost really fine to spread it on your lawn...break it down to about 1/2 in particles and rake it in with a wide rake. I have a one acre lot with lots of grass, orchard and garden. I only weed the garden and only mow the grass. living in the city means your lawn needs to be as nice or better than your neighbors, but that is really just an ego problem. my lawn looks just fine to me...Your lawn probabily would look just fine to me too.DB - Original Message - From: robert and benita rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 7:46 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Lawn question off topic JJJN wrote: Hello folks, any organic lawn experts out there? I have been encroaching out 75% of my lawn with food plants for both wildlife and humans, but I still have this 25% and living in town I need to keep it lawn. the question is how does one raise a great lawn without weed killers etc? I have been wondering , can you take compost and grind it really fine and spread it on the lawn water it in? Would this be good? I don't think this is off topic, as it relates directly to the mentality of dirt as a growing medium that is so pervasive and lies at the root of much difficulty in our society. I've actually had a lawn professional suggest that I rip out my lawn and replace it with garden. You seem to be more successful at growing vegetables than grass, he said. I've aereated my lawn this year and watered with mixture of compost tea and organic compost enhancement liquid. It's much greener and healthier than it's been in the past, but this method still smacks of replacing chemical fertilizers with non chemical fertilizers. It's not that I hate grass, but I'm NOT pleased with the monoculture mentality that insists it must be of a uniform species. When we first
Re: [Biofuel] Lawn question off topic
lres1 wrote: Will this kill the bugs busy eating away my precious grape vines and shade area without harming the vine. That is used tobacco and some soap liquid mixed with water and pump it from a hand sprayer? Got sunlight soap here for the dishes, lemon scent even. Summary. 1/ 1 gallon of water/juice extracted from cigarette butts. 2/ 1 cup of liquid soap normally used for dishes. 3/Mix, strainand spray on my grape vine. 4/ Do not do this in the kitchen with other cooks present. Doug We have a plant nursery nearby that is run by an old German fellow. He sprays his trees with soap, which he says kills the bugs and prevents deer from eating his trees. I tried this technique and it works, BUT, care must be taken because the soap dries out the tree leaves. He said to be sure to use soap, not detergent, and he didn't say anything about ammonia. However, I don't see how ammonia would hurt anything. robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Lawn question off topic
Hello Doug Maybe out of line/subject here. Why so? Would like to know where to find the Pros and Cons about Silage as an animal feed in comparison to dry hay and non processed fodder. Seems some silage makes for a bad smell once the heap is opened, not savory at all, and yet cows will eat it okay. How does this compare with dry hay, licks and molasses. Is this a worm free base? Seems to be full of rotten grass and nothing but. It's not rotten, it's fermented. It's usually better feeding value than hay, but that's only because hay is usually poorly made, much of the value is lost in the drying. For sound information on this, see Newman Turner (fell text online): Fertility Farming by Newman Turner http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library.html#turner1 More information here: http://www.soilandhealth.org/ Soil and Health Library Agriculture Library Sykes, Friend. Humus and the Farmer. London: Faber and Faber Limited, 1946 These two books should answer your questions fully. Actually silage vs hay is not an either/or, they're complementary, use both. More resources here: http://journeytoforever.org/farm_pasture.html Pasture for small farmers: Journey to Forever As below I can agree for sure some composting materials will reach 80 + Deg C especially in dry ground pit decomposition, this in turn is used to kill off some of the bad bugs like parasites and such in some waste disposal systems where bacterial action causes the heat. Any thermophilic compost will kill parasites, as long as it spends some time above 55 deg C or so, and as long as all of it goes through that heat process (in other words turn it so what was at the edges gets heated up the second time). Hotter is better but not essential - it won't improve the product much, if at all, just the speed of breakdown. We've already bmn through this recently, here: Re: [Biofuel] Crude Glycerin and Hot Compost http://snipurl.com/rymc Best Keith Example, the snail shell type toilets constructed as pit toilets in some parts were designed not only for the bacteria to break down the occupying mass but was also used to kill the mosquitoes in the down draft caused by the chimney height through the long drop hole. (the mosquitoes were killed in the heat of the chimney as it was blocked with a mosquito screen stopping the poor mozzy from escaping the cooking. Doug - Original Message - From: Steve Racz [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 6:24 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Lawn question off topic I have to agree here. I kept an organic lawn for 10 years. I used a mulching mower to put the clippings back into the lawn and used the mower on its tallest setting. The rare time I watered (which wasn't often even though I lived in Dallas with its 100F avg temps in the summer), I watered deeply - but mostly I let the lawn go dormant in the summer. None of the neighbors complained and not that I would have cared anyway. In the fall all the leaves from the trees went into compost piles and then in the spring or fall or whenever it suited, it was sifted through a 1/2 sifter, shovelled into a spreader and on it went on top of the grass. Compost is a great 'fertiliser'. It is slow releasing and is nicely balanced in all nutrients. You don't need to water it in and you can never overapply. There are no worries from any runoff. Contrary to some misconceptions about compost - it can never get too hot - the heat is from the micro-organisms who are doing the work of breaking the organic material down. They thrive on moisture and air and they produce heat as a by-product. The more heat, the faster the breakdown. There is no need to apply heat. The heat is a byproduct, not an input to compost.. Blowing hot air through compost, is, well, a lot of hot air. If anyone is in doubt of the power of compost, try this for a summer project: sneak out to a sports field with a spreader full of compost and in huge letters, spell out your favorite team's name ( or whatever!) on the pitch and then watch what happens for the rest of the season! Compost is a natural product. As long as the source is organic, home made compost is better than anything you would have normally used instead. Steve On Monday 19 June 2006 06:11 am, DB wrote: you don't have to grind compost really fine to spread it on your lawn...break it down to about 1/2 in particles and rake it in with a wide rake. I have a one acre lot with lots of grass, orchard and garden. I only weed the garden and only mow the grass. living in the city means your lawn needs to be as nice or better than your neighbors, but that is really just an ego problem. my lawn looks just fine to me...Your lawn probabily would look just fine to me too.DB - Original Message - From: robert and benita rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, June
Re: [Biofuel] Lawn question off topic
Will this kill the bugs busy eating away my precious grape vines and shade area without harming the vine. That is used tobacco and some soap liquid mixed with water and pump it from a hand sprayer? Got sunlight soap here for the dishes, lemon scent even. Summary. 1/ 1 gallon of water/juice extracted from cigarette butts. 2/ 1 cup of liquid soap normally used for dishes. 3/ Mix, strain and spray on my grape vine. 4/ Do not do this in the kitchen with other cooks present. Doug Nicotine will kill everything else too, including the bugs that eat the bugs eating your grapevines. It won't kill the vines though. Best Keith - Original Message - From: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Fred Finch To: mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 7:47 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Lawn question off topic Jim, Instead of ammonia, get a pack of chewing tobacco. Soak it in a gallon of water for a day in the sun. Strain the tobacco out and then add the dish soap. Spray it on the buggies. The nicotine is absorbed into the little critters and they die. The plants don't care either way about the stuff. I do this on the roses that I have. Works great. Another thing that I have done is grabbed the coffee can of butts that my nieghbor had. He thinks I am nutz anyway but the look on his face when I asked him for them was priceless. I soaked that for a day then strained that. Worked as well as the chewing tobacco and was free. Smelled nasty but did the trick just the same. fred On 6/18/06, JJJN mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Robert, I was told that if you take one cup Lemon dish soap and mix with one cup lemon ammonia and spray like you would with a pesticide bottle that you hook on the end of a garden hose. At first I thought the idea sounded good but then what is in all that stuff? and if it kills the bad guys whats it doing to the good ones. Have you heard of this? What do you think? I tested a tiny bit on some catipillers and it sure killed them and quick, but again that would not be the entire goal if the product screws up 10 other cycles to do so. I wish I knew more about bugs. I suppose you may have some luck if you can apply it in a way that was to the single point missing everything else. Jim robert and benita rabello wrote: Chris Lloyd wrote: Some compost has virtually no ability to fertilise anything, I got caught out this year with the half ton I got for growing tomatoes in. It was supposed to be composted household waste and tree leaves, looked good, smelt good and will probably make a good soil improver but I had to start adding chicken poo to save the tomatoes. Perhaps the nutrients got washed out of it but I'm going back to rotted horse manure next year. Chris I've found that the commercial composts are sterilized with heat to kill weed seeds. This also kills all of the soil fauna, which is responsible for fertility. I made that mistake once, and since then I've relied on my own compost. My trees are happier (though I'm STILL have insect and fruit problems) and look far more lush than they have in the past. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Lawn question off topic
Keith Addison wrote: Nicotine will kill everything else too, including the bugs that eat the bugs eating your grapevines. It won't kill the vines though. Best Keith This is why the whole pest management approach is fundamentally flawed. Plants should be able to tolerate mild infestation, and a system in balance should provide predators to keep the overall pest numbers down. I don't want to kill the wasps and ladybeetles that feed on the aphids infesting my plum trees. I want the trees healthy enough to deal with insect pests on their own. We have fruit on our plum trees for the first time! (Yeah!) But the ONE pear on our pear tree has fallen off, and the cherry tree has produced two cherries this year, one of which also fell off. The pink dogwood I planted for my sweetheart in our front yard looks far healthier than ever, and there's a ring of very dark grass around its drip line. That grass sends its side roots into the compost I've put beneath the dogwood tree, and as a result, has become the best looking grass on my property! My saintly mother-in-law came over for a visit yesterday and commented on how good our yard is looking. I haven't sprayed any of our trees this year because I want to see how well compost treatment works to strengthen them. She thinks we've learned a lot about soil remediation, and the evidence can be seen in vigorous growth and blossoming. Now, if only I could make enough compost to cover the entire lawn . . . robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Lawn question off topic
Jim, Robert and Keith had a great exchange earlier in the year about gardening and composting. It really got me going. I've gone back to vegetables/fruits. Flowers had been taking over. A neighbor dropped off a load of horse manure just yesterday and promised another today. I was out early and prepared a big drum of manure tea. The plants love it. Have no fear about harvesting those Jerusalem artichokes. I've dug up whole sections of ground where they grew. I pulled out every tubers I could find. A week or two later they were back, and the following year, in full force. It was as if I have only thinned them out. Off topic...??? Talk about soil around here and you get a response, huh? Tom - Original Message - From: JJJN [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 12:03 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Lawn question off topic Hi Thomas, Thanks, I will start putting compost on soon. Every thing is going well except my gourds, they dont seem to like this latitude or something. My jeruselum artichokes are going crazy they are already 4-5 feet tall. I hope we get a late summer as last year they blossomed - a rare thing here. The tubers are exceptional eating. I went containers with Tomatoes and Peppers to save space. I am just amazed at how responsive plants are to real soil. How are your gardening ventures doing? Jim Thomas Kelly wrote: Jim, My lawn is in the middle of pasture land, so grasses of one type or another grow pretty well. I use sifted compost to bring back areas that have been damaged (after a winter of dogs pee-ing on the grass just out the back door). I have two sifters: a large one with 1/2 hardware cloth and a smaller one w. 1/4 hardware cloth. I sift a large amount of compost w the larger one, let some of it dry a day or two. Then I sift the dried siftings with the smaller screen. This finely sifted compost is great for lawns/potting plants. I use it in trouble areas - to bring them back. It's much too valuable to me to use on large areas of lawn. How's the garden coming? Tom - Original Message - From: JJJN [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: BIO Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2006 10:46 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Lawn question off topic Hello folks, any organic lawn experts out there? I have been encroaching out 75% of my lawn with food plants for both wildlife and humans, but I still have this 25% and living in town I need to keep it lawn. the question is how does one raise a great lawn without weed killers etc? I have been wondering , can you take compost and grind it really fine and spread it on the lawn water it in? Would this be good? Jim ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Lawn question off topic
Hi Doug, I've used amixture of soap and isopropanol (rubbing alcohol) with good results. This mixture is a contact poison that only works while wet. That means you actually have to get the spray on to the beasties and repeated applications are usually necessary.I would suggest is that you reduce the liquid soap to about 1 to 2 tbsp (15 - 30ml) and add 1 cup ofalcohol - don't know if methanol will work. The alcohol helps to get rid of the hard bodied bugs;you know, the ones that work out regularly. Good Luck Doug -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of lres1Sent: June 19, 2006 9:27 AMTo: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject: Re: [Biofuel] Lawn question off topic Will this kill the bugs busy eating away my precious grape vines and shade area without harming the vine. That is used tobacco and some soap liquid mixed with water and pump it from a hand sprayer? Got sunlight soap here for the dishes, lemon scent even. Summary. 1/ 1 gallon of water/juice extracted from cigarette butts. 2/ 1 cup of liquid soap normally used for dishes. 3/Mix, strainand spray on my grape vine. 4/ Do not do this in the kitchen with other cooks present. Doug - Original Message - From: Fred Finch To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 7:47 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Lawn question off topic Jim, Instead of ammonia, get a pack of chewing tobacco. Soak it in a gallon of water for a day in the sun. Strain the tobacco out and then add the dish soap. Spray it on the buggies. The nicotine is absorbed into the little critters and they die. The plants don't care either way about the stuff. I do this on the roses that I have. Works great. Another thing that I have done is grabbed the coffee can of butts that my nieghbor had. He thinks I am nutz anyway but the look on his face when I asked him for them was priceless. I soaked that for a day then strained that. Worked as well as the chewing tobacco and was free. Smelled nasty but did the trick just the same. fred On 6/18/06, JJJN [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Robert,I was told that if you take one cup Lemon dish soap and mix with one cuplemon ammonia and spray like you would with a pesticide bottle that youhook on the end of a garden hose.At first I thought the idea sounded good but then what is in all that stuff? and if it kills the bad guyswhats it doing to the good ones. Have you heard of this? What do youthink?I tested a tiny bit on some catipillers and it sure killed themand quick, but again that would not be the entire goal if the productscrews up 10 other cycles to do so. I wish I knew more about bugs.Isuppose you may have some luck if you can apply it in a way that was tothe single point missing everything else.Jimrobert and benita rabello wrote:Chris Lloyd wrote:Some compost has virtually no ability to fertilise anything, I got caught out this year with the half ton I got for growing tomatoes in. It wassupposed to be composted household waste and tree leaves, looked good, smeltgood and will probably make a good soil improver but I had to start adding chicken poo to save the tomatoes. Perhaps the nutrients got washed out of itbut I'm going back to rotted horse manure next year. ChrisI've found that the commercial composts are sterilized with heat to kill weed seeds.This also kills all of the soil fauna, which isresponsible for fertility.I made that mistake once, and since thenI've relied on my own compost.My trees are happier (though I'm STILL have insect and fruit problems) and look far more lush than they have inthe past.robert luis rabello"The Edge of Justice"Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.caRanger Supercharger Project Pagehttp://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/___ Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/___Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainabl
Re: [Biofuel] Lawn question off topic
Jim, My lawn is in the middle of pasture land, so grasses of one type or another grow pretty well. I use sifted compost to bring back areas that have been damaged (after a winter of dogs pee-ing on the grass just out the back door). I have two sifters: a large one with 1/2 hardware cloth and a smaller one w. 1/4 hardware cloth. I sift a large amount of compost w the larger one, let some of it dry a day or two. Then I sift the dried siftings with the smaller screen. This finely sifted compost is great for lawns/potting plants. I use it in trouble areas - to bring them back. It's much too valuable to me to use on large areas of lawn. How's the garden coming? Tom - Original Message - From: JJJN [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: BIO Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2006 10:46 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Lawn question off topic Hello folks, any organic lawn experts out there? I have been encroaching out 75% of my lawn with food plants for both wildlife and humans, but I still have this 25% and living in town I need to keep it lawn. the question is how does one raise a great lawn without weed killers etc? I have been wondering , can you take compost and grind it really fine and spread it on the lawn water it in? Would this be good? Jim ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Lawn question off topic
JJJN wrote: Hello folks, any organic lawn experts out there? I have been encroaching out 75% of my lawn with food plants for both wildlife and humans, but I still have this 25% and living in town I need to keep it lawn. the question is how does one raise a great lawn without weed killers etc? I have been wondering , can you take compost and grind it really fine and spread it on the lawn water it in? Would this be good? I don't think this is off topic, as it relates directly to the mentality of dirt as a growing medium that is so pervasive and lies at the root of much difficulty in our society. I've actually had a lawn professional suggest that I rip out my lawn and replace it with garden. You seem to be more successful at growing vegetables than grass, he said. I've aereated my lawn this year and watered with mixture of compost tea and organic compost enhancement liquid. It's much greener and healthier than it's been in the past, but this method still smacks of replacing chemical fertilizers with non chemical fertilizers. It's not that I hate grass, but I'm NOT pleased with the monoculture mentality that insists it must be of a uniform species. When we first bought this property it was covered in grasses that were long and made a lovely sound as the seed heads touseled in the wind. But now, I keep the motley collection of grasses that pass for lawn on my property trimmed to 55 millimeters. If anyone has better ideas for lawn maintenance that will not raise the ire of my neighbors (who already think I'm weird), please let me know. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Lawn question off topic
you don't have to grind compost really fine to spread it on your lawn...break it down to about 1/2 in particles and rake it in with a wide rake. I have a one acre lot with lots of grass, orchard and garden. I only weed the garden and only mow the grass. living in the city means your lawn needs to be as nice or better than your neighbors, but that is really just an ego problem. my lawn looks just fine to me...Your lawn probabily would look just fine to me too.DB - Original Message - From: robert and benita rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 7:46 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Lawn question off topic JJJN wrote: Hello folks, any organic lawn experts out there? I have been encroaching out 75% of my lawn with food plants for both wildlife and humans, but I still have this 25% and living in town I need to keep it lawn. the question is how does one raise a great lawn without weed killers etc? I have been wondering , can you take compost and grind it really fine and spread it on the lawn water it in? Would this be good? I don't think this is off topic, as it relates directly to the mentality of dirt as a growing medium that is so pervasive and lies at the root of much difficulty in our society. I've actually had a lawn professional suggest that I rip out my lawn and replace it with garden. You seem to be more successful at growing vegetables than grass, he said. I've aereated my lawn this year and watered with mixture of compost tea and organic compost enhancement liquid. It's much greener and healthier than it's been in the past, but this method still smacks of replacing chemical fertilizers with non chemical fertilizers. It's not that I hate grass, but I'm NOT pleased with the monoculture mentality that insists it must be of a uniform species. When we first bought this property it was covered in grasses that were long and made a lovely sound as the seed heads touseled in the wind. But now, I keep the motley collection of grasses that pass for lawn on my property trimmed to 55 millimeters. If anyone has better ideas for lawn maintenance that will not raise the ire of my neighbors (who already think I'm weird), please let me know. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Lawn question off topic
This is a little out of date and I don't really agree with some of it, but it might help. Forget about fertilisers (like bloodmeal, bonemeal etc), whether organic or not, as Robert says it's just replacing chemical fertilizers with non chemical fertilizers. Use sifted compost and compost tea. HTH. Best Keith The Organic Lawn As in all fields of organic growing, the basic recipe for a successful organic lawn is to create conditions which encourage healthy growth of the required plant - in this case grass. While it would be difficult to forget to tend the vegetables or the fruit, for example, it is easy to neglect a lawn, because it is always there! Grass is a fairly tough plant but it will only take a certain amount of mal-treatment before vigour and growth is reduced, leaving the way open for weeds to invade, and allowing pest and disease to become a problem. Regular and timely attention will save time and trouble in the long term. Some gardeners who would not dream of using chemicals on the vegetable plot still use fertilisers and/or weedkillers on the lawn, either because they think it saves so much effort or because they don't think it possible to maintain a lawn organically. An organic lawn may require a change of attitude but it is quite possible and should not require a great deal of extra work; chemicals can sometimes provide a short term solution to a problem but in no way replace good care and maintenance, Another justification for using chemicals might be that the lawn is such a small area of land that these couldn't cause much harm to the environment. But, it has been estimated that there are around 90,000 hectares (222,300 acres) of lawn in the U.K. - so if every gardener uses chemicals on their lawn this can add up to a considerable amount. This figure also shows the importance of the garden for wildlife. As our countryside diminishes and becomes more polluted, so the value of the backgarden, especially an organic garden, grows. Are you asking too much of your lawn? Before you start to develop a positive lawn care programme, take a good look at your lawn and ask yourself if you are demanding too much of it. Are you expecting it to grow well on a poorly drained site, or under trees? Are you hoping that a sward of fine grass will withstand the ravages of children's games or regular winter use? Or are you expecting a mixture of rough grasses to produce a bowling green finish with those famous stripes? No amount of good care can help if the site and/or the grass species in the lawn are unsuitable for the job. The easy way round this is to alter your expectations to fit the lawn! The alternative is to correct any major problems - such as poor drainage or too much shade. If you are sowing a new lawn or reseeding an old one make sure you choose a seed mix that suits the purpose. There are all sorts available nowadays, including some very hard wearing (but slow growing) mixtures. Mowing If nothing else, at least everyone mows the lawn. Some gardeners will be out with the mower as soon as a blade of grass grows over half an inch tall, and others will wait until it is knee high before they tackle it. Both of these cases can be a recipe for disaster for the ordinary lawn. If the grass is cut too short and too often the plants will be weakened, and less able to withstand dry weather and the invasion of weeds. Leaving it too long will encourage species of grass and weeds at the expense of those you really want in the lawn. Regular mowing to the right height on the other hand will encourage a good thick healthy sward and help to control weeds. When to cut: As soon as the grass is 1.25cm (1/2 in) taller than the recommended height. How often to cut: This will obviously depend on growing conditions. A general purpose lawn can need a weekly cut. A fine lawn may need to be cut 2-3 times a week. Height of cut: Cut a general purpose lawn to 2.5cm (l in), a fine lawn to 1.25cm (1/2 in) during the growing season. Leave the grass a little longer (say 3cm (1-1/4in) and 2cm (3/4in) respectively) in spring, autumn or periods of drought. If you have left the grass to grow too long, reduce its height over 2 or 3 cuts, leaving a few days to recover in between. A single cut will be a great shock to the plants and will reduce the vigour. Which mower? This isn't the time or the place to get involved in the perennial battle between the manufacturers of mowers that hover and of those that don't. Gardening Which? reported the results of three years of trials which showed that the type of mower is less important than how you use it. Most mowers should do a good job if kept sharp, and properly adjusted, and provided they are not required to cut in wet weather. Choose the one that suits your pocket and vour situation. Collecting the clippings If the lawn is cut as suggested there is in general no need to remove the mowings as there should be no
Re: [Biofuel] Lawn question off topic
Forget about fertilisers (like bloodmeal, bonemeal etc), whether organic or not, as Robert says it's just replacing chemical fertilizers with non chemical fertilizers. Use sifted compost and compost tea. Some compost has virtually no ability to fertilise anything, I got caught out this year with the half ton I got for growing tomatoes in. It was supposed to be composted household waste and tree leaves, looked good, smelt good and will probably make a good soil improver but I had to start adding chicken poo to save the tomatoes. Perhaps the nutrients got washed out of it but I'm going back to rotted horse manure next year. Chris ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Lawn question off topic
I hate my lawn. Pointless, and the lawn owners are killing the Chesapeake bay w/ fertilizer robert and benita rabello wrote: JJJN wrote: Hello folks, any organic lawn experts out there? I have been encroaching out 75% of my lawn with food plants for both wildlife and humans, but I still have this 25% and living in town I need to keep it lawn. the question is how does one raise a great lawn without weed killers etc? I have been wondering , can you take compost and grind it really fine and spread it on the lawn water it in? Would this be good? I don't think this is off topic, as it relates directly to the mentality of dirt as a growing medium that is so pervasive and lies at the root of much difficulty in our society. I've actually had a lawn professional suggest that I rip out my lawn and replace it with garden. You seem to be more successful at growing vegetables than grass, he said. I've aereated my lawn this year and watered with mixture of compost tea and organic compost enhancement liquid. It's much greener and healthier than it's been in the past, but this method still smacks of replacing chemical fertilizers with non chemical fertilizers. It's not that I hate grass, but I'm NOT pleased with the monoculture mentality that insists it must be of a uniform species. When we first bought this property it was covered in grasses that were long and made a lovely sound as the seed heads touseled in the wind. But now, I keep the motley collection of grasses that pass for lawn on my property trimmed to 55 millimeters. If anyone has better ideas for lawn maintenance that will not raise the ire of my neighbors (who already think I'm weird), please let me know. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Lawn question off topic
Chris Lloyd wrote: Some compost has virtually no ability to fertilise anything, I got caught out this year with the half ton I got for growing tomatoes in. It was supposed to be composted household waste and tree leaves, looked good, smelt good and will probably make a good soil improver but I had to start adding chicken poo to save the tomatoes. Perhaps the nutrients got washed out of it but I'm going back to rotted horse manure next year. Chris I've found that the commercial composts are sterilized with heat to kill weed seeds. This also kills all of the soil fauna, which is responsible for fertility. I made that mistake once, and since then I've relied on my own compost. My trees are happier (though I'm STILL have insect and fruit problems) and look far more lush than they have in the past. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Lawn question off topic
Hello Chris Forget about fertilisers (like bloodmeal, bonemeal etc), whether organic or not, as Robert says it's just replacing chemical fertilizers with non chemical fertilizers. Use sifted compost and compost tea. Some compost has virtually no ability to fertilise anything, I got caught out this year with the half ton I got for growing tomatoes in. It was supposed to be composted household waste and tree leaves, looked good, smelt good and will probably make a good soil improver but I had to start adding chicken poo to save the tomatoes. Perhaps the nutrients got washed out of it but I'm going back to rotted horse manure next year. Chris Compost is something you make yourself, IMHO. Fertilising in that sense means providing the plant with nutrients, but that's feeding it, not fertilising it, you have to fertilise the soil, and the soil feeds the plant. Feeding the plants nutrients direct is how you feed a sick man on a drip in a hospital bed. Feed the soil, not the plant. If you get rotted horse manure next year (rotted being a word that covers a host of sins) use it to make compost. From previous, re bought compost (somebody'd said it mustn't get too hot, not so): Industrial composters use stuff like constant mechanical turning and air injection, or hot air injection, to speed up the process. If that's not properly done it might catch fire, but usually it's properly done. Or at least properly done as far as rapid processing of unstable organic wastes is concerned, but it's primarily waste disposal, as a soil fertiliser it's not much use. They can finish it in a day or less, but some of the important micro-organisms take at least seven days to develop their colonies. Maybe this is where the myth of compost getting too hot and killing off the good guys arose. I suppose they use compost like this in parks and so on, but if you happen to score a load of it for nothing the only use I can think of for it, presuming that it's free of heavy metals and the herbicides that won't break down and so on, is to use it as a bulk application to kickstart run-down soil, which you then innoculate in situ with much less real compost, as well as compost tea, preferably made with QR and liquid seaweed added. -- Re: [Biofuel] Crude Glycerin and Hot Compost http://snipurl.com/rymc Best Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Lawn question off topic
Hi Thomas, Thanks, I will start putting compost on soon. Every thing is going well except my gourds, they dont seem to like this latitude or something. My jeruselum artichokes are going crazy they are already 4-5 feet tall. I hope we get a late summer as last year they blossomed - a rare thing here. The tubers are exceptional eating. I went containers with Tomatoes and Peppers to save space. I am just amazed at how responsive plants are to real soil. How are your gardening ventures doing? Jim Thomas Kelly wrote: Jim, My lawn is in the middle of pasture land, so grasses of one type or another grow pretty well. I use sifted compost to bring back areas that have been damaged (after a winter of dogs pee-ing on the grass just out the back door). I have two sifters: a large one with 1/2 hardware cloth and a smaller one w. 1/4 hardware cloth. I sift a large amount of compost w the larger one, let some of it dry a day or two. Then I sift the dried siftings with the smaller screen. This finely sifted compost is great for lawns/potting plants. I use it in trouble areas - to bring them back. It's much too valuable to me to use on large areas of lawn. How's the garden coming? Tom - Original Message - From: JJJN [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: BIO Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2006 10:46 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Lawn question off topic Hello folks, any organic lawn experts out there? I have been encroaching out 75% of my lawn with food plants for both wildlife and humans, but I still have this 25% and living in town I need to keep it lawn. the question is how does one raise a great lawn without weed killers etc? I have been wondering , can you take compost and grind it really fine and spread it on the lawn water it in? Would this be good? Jim ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Lawn question off topic
Robert, I was told that if you take one cup Lemon dish soap and mix with one cup lemon ammonia and spray like you would with a pesticide bottle that you hook on the end of a garden hose. At first I thought the idea sounded good but then what is in all that stuff? and if it kills the bad guys whats it doing to the good ones. Have you heard of this? What do you think? I tested a tiny bit on some catipillers and it sure killed them and quick, but again that would not be the entire goal if the product screws up 10 other cycles to do so. I wish I knew more about bugs. I suppose you may have some luck if you can apply it in a way that was to the single point missing everything else. Jim robert and benita rabello wrote: Chris Lloyd wrote: Some compost has virtually no ability to fertilise anything, I got caught out this year with the half ton I got for growing tomatoes in. It was supposed to be composted household waste and tree leaves, looked good, smelt good and will probably make a good soil improver but I had to start adding chicken poo to save the tomatoes. Perhaps the nutrients got washed out of it but I'm going back to rotted horse manure next year. Chris I've found that the commercial composts are sterilized with heat to kill weed seeds. This also kills all of the soil fauna, which is responsible for fertility. I made that mistake once, and since then I've relied on my own compost. My trees are happier (though I'm STILL have insect and fruit problems) and look far more lush than they have in the past. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Lawn question off topic
Hello folks, any organic lawn experts out there? I have been encroaching out 75% of my lawn with food plants for both wildlife and humans, but I still have this 25% and living in town I need to keep it lawn. the question is how does one raise a great lawn without weed killers etc? I have been wondering , can you take compost and grind it really fine and spread it on the lawn water it in? Would this be good? Jim ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
