Re: [Biofuel] WVO collector and restaurant threatened by rendering company
Hi, the information I mentioned about Michigan was drawn for communications in this list serve from months ago. The list archives (should) have several Michigan residents discussing the situation with grease collection in the state of Michigan. There was one gentlemen who resided near Lansing, MI that I'm specifically thinking about now. I just can't remember his name. Michael Lendzian CINS Network Support Team Columbus State University CINS/Center for Commerce Technology Room 105 706.569.3044 (help desk) - Original Message - From: John I [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 8:19 pm Subject: Re: [Biofuel] WVO collector and restaurant threatened by rendering company Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 07:49:17 -0400 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] WVO collector and restaurant threatened by rendering company To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi Frieda, There are lawyers out there that HAVE worked with the little guy/girl against the big renderers. You may talk to one. I learned that the restuarant should give you a receipt for the grease you collect. In some states, it is illegal for anyone who is not a (state) registered renderer to collect WVO. ie Michigan. Hello, I've been searching through the State (of Michigan) License Search d'base and I can't find any such license requirements. Could you please shed some light on the specifics for me as that's my state. The closest I could come up with was for a Rendering Plant: Required State License(s): Any establishment that reduces dead animals to tallow and meat scraps, cracklings, or other items unfit for human consumption by cooking or processing must be licensed as a rendering plant by the Department of Agriculture, Animal Industry Division; (517) 373-1077. Revised: 12/2002 This specifies animal products (allbeit I dont know what a crackling is besides what's seen on certain Detroit corners) so I dont see this as pertaining to WVO collection/processing. I see another regarding liquid industrial waste, quite broadly stated as: Liquid Industrial Waste Hauler Required State License(s): When transporting liquid industrial waste from the premises of another contact the Department of Environmental Quality for further information (800) 662-9278. A Motor Carrier license is required with the Public Service Commission, Department of Labor Economic Growth at (517) 241-6030. However, hazardous waste transporters who have appropriate authorization may transport liquid industrial waste without obtaining a license. Revised: 5/2005 Since this is exempted by a hazmat license and seems to cover general transportation rather then rendering issues it doesn't seem to be applicable either. Past that the only other license I can see that would be even remotely conected to BioD production is: Diesel Fuel Dealer Required State License(s): When involved in the business of selling and delivering diesel motor fuel to the supply tanks of motor vehicles in Michigan should be registered with the Department of Treasury, Motor Fuel, Cigarette Miscellaneous Taxes Division; (517) 636-4630. Diesel tanks also should be registered with the Department of State Police, Fire Marshall; (517) 322-1924. Revised: 4/2005 It's 2nd paragraph that's of more particular intrest since they want the registration of tanks. I assume this whole lincensure is specific to petrolium based diesel but since it is broadly stated I dont know that as fact. Any legal insight to this or other BioD/WVO related issues (even if not specific to Michigan) would be of great intrest. Thanks, John Perhaps you could become a blue ribbon licensed WVO renderer on the state books? Check into what it would take. The renderers should have a contract with the restaurant maybe? Otherwise they are way out of line. The restuarant owner should tell the renderer to take his grease bin and stick it where the sun won't shine. For the renderer to claim that the restuarant is helping you cheat fuel taxes, is bizarre, but it's even more bizarre that in the same statement that the renderer would claim that the restuarant is responsible for your fuel road tax is the stupidest thing that I have heard of well, since this Pat Robertson thing just popped up... Just my two cents... Good Luck Frieda and keep us posted on how this works out. Surely we will be seeing more run in's with renderer in the near future. Best Regards, Michael Lendzian CINS Network Support Team Columbus State University CINS/Center for Commerce Technology Room 105 706.569.3044 (help desk) -- next part -- Hello all, The rendering company (company that collects used
Re: [Biofuel] WVO collector and restaurant threatened by rendering company
Frieda, Haulers have only three legitimate complaints with greasel owners and biodiesel brewers that approach a level of legality, at least relative to their involvement. 1) If a restauranteur has signed a contract with a hauler or renderer that stipulates that all fats and oils coming from that establishment during the contractual period belong to them, whether in the dumpster or not, they have a legitimate complaint and could approach the restaurant owner for breech of contract. Some contracts only state that the grease belongs to the hauler once it's in the dumpster/drum. 2) If a greasel owner or biodiesel brewer removes feedstock from a container that belongs to the hauler, the hauler has grounds to pursue a complaint of theft. If the amount of grease/oil removed can be proven, whether it be a single instance or over a series of events, and the value of the grease/oil meets or exceeds the dollar threshold for felony theft, the person who has removed the grease could be held liable in a criminal court. 3) A few states require that the hauler be licensed. If not, fines could be levied. As a general rule, haulers literally make bank on the expected volumes of grease/oil from each of its clients. If the expected/historical volume differs from the actual volume, they tend to get extremely pissy and play the part of the 800 pound gorilla, making threats of all manner, sometimes legitimate and sometimes not, in order to resecure their feedstock. It's best that every greasel owner, biodieseler and restauranteur know of the potential legal snags if they expect to keep their headache levels at zero. The easiest solution is for the homebrewer or greaseler to pre-arrange supplying the same type of container(s) at no charge to the restaurant when any existing contract is about to expire and service them regularly. The problem usually found with such a scenario is that while the intentions of the homebrewer may be good, their interest often wains, leaving the restaurant in a lurch. As well, many restaurants expect their haulers to take everything that gets dumped in the barrels, not just the cream off the top. Many places throw their Boil Out (lye and water run through the fryers to clean them) in with their grease. And many throw their end of day meats into the same drums/dumpsters. If a person is going to be looking for grease supplies, they need to be prepared to take the bad with the good and be capable of processing the bad along with the good. Otherwise they have the potential to become an environmental hazard that outstrips whatever environmental benefit they provide. There is, after all, an equal protection [prosecution] under the law clause to the US constitution. Todd Swearingen Frieda Feen wrote: Hello all, The rendering company (company that collects used restaurant fryer oil), issued angry verbal threats to the Mom and Pop burger joint that gives me their used fryer oil. The restaurant puts their used fryer oil into my buckets, and I schlep it away. The renderers told the restaurant that it was illegal for them to give me their used fryer oil. They demanded that the restaurant give them my name and phone number. The renderers said that it was illegal for people to use fryer oil, or any other non-petroleum product, for fuel without paying a fuel tax to the state and feds, and that the restaurant was responsible to see that that tax is paid since it is their oil that is being used as a fuel. They also said there is legislation about to go through the California senate that supports their allegations. Thoughts? Thanks, Frieda ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] WVO collector and restaurant threatened by rendering company
--- Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The easiest solution is for the homebrewer or greaseler to pre-arrange supplying the same type of container(s) at no charge to the restaurant when any existing contract is about to expire and service them regularly. The problem usually found with such a scenario is that while the intentions of the homebrewer may be good, their interest often wains, leaving the restaurant in a lurch. The other problem being, of course, that you aren't already friends with the inspector who might get you in trouble, cuz you didn't take him out to dinner like the other one did. So they get the law passed and you don't :-) -K __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] WVO collector and restaurant threatened by rendering company
Read the last part of the following, from - http://www.metaefficient.com/metaefficient/archives/biodiesel/ From the IRS: The applicable diesel fuel tax rate is 24.4 cents per gallon. This tax is paid by submitting Form 720 Quarterly Federal Excise Tax Return. Biodiesel is considered as a blended diesel fuel. The person that produces the blended diesel fuel, outside the bulk transfer/terminal system (blender), is liable for the tax which is imposed under IRC section 4081(b) upon sale or removal. Blended diesel fuel is any mixture of diesel fuel, with respect to which tax has been imposed and any other liquid(such as kerosene)which no tax has been imposed. The number of gallons of blended diesel fuel subject to the tax, is the difference between the total number of gallons of blended diesel fuel removed or sold, and the number of gallons of previously taxed diesel fuel used to produce the blended diesel fuel. (---IMPORTANT PART---) An exclusion from tax on the blended taxable fuel mixture is provided in Treasury Regulations section 48.4081-1(c)(1)(ii) for minor blending if: during any calendar quarter the removal or sale of the mixture in aggregate by the blender is less than 400 gallons. The IRS Form is 720 and publication 510. Thats for the feds... I can't say for the state. Most states probably have similar rules. Hello all, The rendering company (company that collects used restaurant fryer oil), issued angry verbal threats to the Mom and Pop burger joint that gives me their used fryer oil. The restaurant puts their used fryer oil into my buckets, and I schlep it away. The renderers told the restaurant that it was illegal for them to give me their used fryer oil. They demanded that the restaurant give them my name and phone number. The rendererssaid that it was illegal forpeople to use fryer oil, or any other non-petroleum product, for fuel without paying a fuel tax to the state and feds, and that the restaurant was responsible to see that that tax is paid since it is their oil that is being used as a fuel. They also said there is legislation about to go through the California senate that supports their allegations. Thoughts? Thanks, Frieda ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] WVO collector and restaurant threatened by rendering company
Hi Frieda, There are lawyers out there that HAVE worked with the little guy/girl against the big renderers. You may talk to one. I learned that the restuarant should give you a receipt for the grease you collect. In some states, it is illegal for anyone who is not a (state) registered renderer to collect WVO. ie Michigan. Perhaps you could become a blue ribbon licensed WVO renderer on the state books? Check into what it would take. The renderers should have a contract with the restaurant maybe? Otherwise they are way out of line. The restuarant owner should tell the renderer to take his grease bin and stick it where the sun won't shine. For the renderer to claim that the restuarant is helping you cheat fuel taxes, is bizarre, but it's even more bizarre that in the same statement that the renderer would claim that the restuarant is responsible for your fuel road tax is the stupidest thing that I have heard of well, since this Pat Robertson thing just popped up... Just my two cents... Good Luck Frieda and keep us posted on how this works out. Surely we will be seeing more run in's with renderer in the near future. Best Regards, Michael Lendzian CINS Network Support Team Columbus State University CINS/Center for Commerce Technology Room 105 706.569.3044 (help desk) Hello all, The rendering company (company that collects used restaurant fryer oil), issued angry verbal threats to the Mom and Pop burger joint that gives me their used fryer oil. The restaurant puts their used fryer oil into my buckets, and I schlep it away. The renderers told the restaurant that it was illegal for them to give me their used fryer oil. They demanded that the restaurant give them my name and phone number. The rendererssaid that it was illegal forpeople to use fryer oil, or any other non-petroleum product, for fuel without paying a fuel tax to the state and feds, and that the restaurant was responsible to see that that tax is paid since it is their oil that is being used as a fuel. They also said there is legislation about to go through the California senate that supports their allegations. Thoughts? Thanks, Frieda ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] WVO collector and restaurant threatened by rendering company
Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 07:49:17 -0400 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] WVO collector and restaurant threatened by rendering company To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi Frieda, There are lawyers out there that HAVE worked with the little guy/girl against the big renderers. You may talk to one. I learned that the restuarant should give you a receipt for the grease you collect. In some states, it is illegal for anyone who is not a (state) registered renderer to collect WVO. ie Michigan. Hello, I've been searching through the State (of Michigan) License Search d'base and I can't find any such license requirements. Could you please shed some light on the specifics for me as that's my state. The closest I could come up with was for a Rendering Plant: Required State License(s): Any establishment that reduces dead animals to tallow and meat scraps, cracklings, or other items unfit for human consumption by cooking or processing must be licensed as a rendering plant by the Department of Agriculture, Animal Industry Division; (517) 373-1077. Revised: 12/2002 This specifies animal products (allbeit I dont know what a crackling is besides what's seen on certain Detroit corners) so I dont see this as pertaining to WVO collection/processing. I see another regarding liquid industrial waste, quite broadly stated as: Liquid Industrial Waste Hauler Required State License(s): When transporting liquid industrial waste from the premises of another contact the Department of Environmental Quality for further information (800) 662-9278. A Motor Carrier license is required with the Public Service Commission, Department of Labor Economic Growth at (517) 241-6030. However, hazardous waste transporters who have appropriate authorization may transport liquid industrial waste without obtaining a license. Revised: 5/2005 Since this is exempted by a hazmat license and seems to cover general transportation rather then rendering issues it doesn't seem to be applicable either. Past that the only other license I can see that would be even remotely conected to BioD production is: Diesel Fuel Dealer Required State License(s): When involved in the business of selling and delivering diesel motor fuel to the supply tanks of motor vehicles in Michigan should be registered with the Department of Treasury, Motor Fuel, Cigarette Miscellaneous Taxes Division; (517) 636-4630. Diesel tanks also should be registered with the Department of State Police, Fire Marshall; (517) 322-1924. Revised: 4/2005 It's 2nd paragraph that's of more particular intrest since they want the registration of tanks. I assume this whole lincensure is specific to petrolium based diesel but since it is broadly stated I dont know that as fact. Any legal insight to this or other BioD/WVO related issues (even if not specific to Michigan) would be of great intrest. Thanks, John Perhaps you could become a blue ribbon licensed WVO renderer on the state books? Check into what it would take. The renderers should have a contract with the restaurant maybe? Otherwise they are way out of line. The restuarant owner should tell the renderer to take his grease bin and stick it where the sun won't shine. For the renderer to claim that the restuarant is helping you cheat fuel taxes, is bizarre, but it's even more bizarre that in the same statement that the renderer would claim that the restuarant is responsible for your fuel road tax is the stupidest thing that I have heard of well, since this Pat Robertson thing just popped up... Just my two cents... Good Luck Frieda and keep us posted on how this works out. Surely we will be seeing more run in's with renderer in the near future. Best Regards, Michael Lendzian CINS Network Support Team Columbus State University CINS/Center for Commerce Technology Room 105 706.569.3044 (help desk) -- next part -- Hello all, The rendering company (company that collects used restaurant fryer oil), issued angry verbal threats to the Mom and Pop burger joint that gives me their used fryer oil. The restaurant puts their used fryer oil into my buckets, and I schlep it away. The renderers told the restaurant that it was illegal for them to give me their used fryer oil. They demanded that the restaurant give them my name and phone number. The renderers said that it was illegal for people to use fryer oil, or any other non-petroleum product, for fuel without paying a fuel tax to the state and feds, and that the restaurant was responsible to see that that tax is paid since it is their oil that is being used as a fuel. They also said there is legislation about to go through the California senate that supports their allegations. Thoughts? Thanks, Frieda
[Biofuel] WVO collector and restaurant threatened by rendering company
Hello all, The rendering company (company that collects used restaurant fryer oil), issued angry verbal threats to the Mom and Pop burger joint that gives me their used fryer oil. The restaurant puts their used fryer oil into my buckets, and I schlep it away. The renderers told the restaurant that it was illegal for them to give me their used fryer oil. They demanded that the restaurant give them my name and phone number. The rendererssaid that it was illegal forpeople to use fryer oil, or any other non-petroleum product, for fuel without paying a fuel tax to the state and feds, and that the restaurant was responsible to see that that tax is paid since it is their oil that is being used as a fuel. They also said there is legislation about to go through the California senate that supports their allegations. Thoughts? Thanks, Frieda ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
