Re: [Biofuel] Alternative way of producing bd (using electric)
Hi Bob; The etherified glycerine is supposed to be 1,2,3-Propanoate, whatever that is, I can not find much data on it. Joe bob allen wrote: Without knowing more about the chemical composition of the product mix, it is difficult to say much about the physical properties. Application of high voltage to the oil would produce a welter of products I would guess, so there is no way of knowing what the properties are. For example the "etherified glycerin" could be 1,2,3-trimethoxypropane, which has a boiling point and viscosity much more like gasoline than diesel fuel. Joe Street wrote: Hi Teoman, and Bob; If this process eventually works it will require not just high voltage but current as well, something like 300 mA at 2Kv. That, you won't get from a 9v battery. I have temporarily suspended my work on the alternative process. Initial tests were not too inspiring. This does not mean I have given up but I have returned to putting time and energy (pun) into my conventional reactor and trying to kick start a cooperative in my community. When time permits I have some ideas I want to investigate with the HV setup. BTW since the thread came back up ( and wish you would have kept the subject line the same) I have a question for the chemistry propeller heads out there. This was flagged in my brain when the recent discussion of butanol for biodiesel came up. Someone said that the viscosity of biodiesel made with butanol would necessarily be higher due to the longer carbon chains in the butanol used in the esterification. The patent application for the electrified biodiesel had a comment about longer carbon chains in the esters due to the electrified process. Would this mean higher viscosity? This has always been a question in my mind since there is no glycerine precipitate, and the bi-product which is a 'etherified glycerine' remains dissolved in the esters how does one know if the reaction takes place other than using fancy tests such as spectroscopy or NMR? I would guess that if there is to be a change in viscosity that there might be a change in specific gravity in which case the volume should go up, or is this a naive assumption? Please excuse my ignorance I'm more of an electronic type. Joe bob allen wrote: Howdy Teoman, looking back in the archives I find the link: http://tinyurl.com/8hjv7 this is to a patent application, not a patent. Even if the process is patented, does that mean that the patent office has checked out the process and confirms that it actually works as described, or simply that the process is novel and has not been described before? Teoman Naskali wrote: Some time ago ther was a thread about producing bd in an alternative way, using electricity. Very high voltages were necessary. I recently saw one of those electric zapper thingies. The ones used for self protetction. Handheld device that gives 200.000 volts. And it operates on 2 x 9V batteries. When you use the device you can actually see the electric arc jump about 2 cm in the air. You could use this device for the generation of high voltages. Hope someone finds this info is usefull. Teoman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.1/207 - Release Date: 12/19/2005 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.2/208 - Release Date: 12/20/2005 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives
Re: [Biofuel] Alternative way of producing bd (using electric)
Howdy Joe, That name, 1,2,3-Propanoate, is wrong. It is named as if it were an ester, but can't mean anything to a chemist unless it is someones pet common name. It doesn't conform to the IUPAC nomenclature. If you etherify glycerin with methanol, you get a tri-ether, 1,2,3-trimethoxypropane (C6H14O3). Joe Street wrote: Hi Bob; The etherified glycerine is supposed to be 1,2,3-Propanoate, whatever that is, I can not find much data on it. Joe bob allen wrote: Without knowing more about the chemical composition of the product mix, it is difficult to say much about the physical properties. Application of high voltage to the oil would produce a welter of products I would guess, so there is no way of knowing what the properties are. For example the etherified glycerin could be 1,2,3-trimethoxypropane, which has a boiling point and viscosity much more like gasoline than diesel fuel. Joe Street wrote: Hi Teoman, and Bob; If this process eventually works it will require not just high voltage but current as well, something like 300 mA at 2Kv. That, you won't get from a 9v battery. I have temporarily suspended my work on the alternative process. Initial tests were not too inspiring. This does not mean I have given up but I have returned to putting time and energy (pun) into my conventional reactor and trying to kick start a cooperative in my community. When time permits I have some ideas I want to investigate with the HV setup. BTW since the thread came back up ( and wish you would have kept the subject line the same) I have a question for the chemistry propeller heads out there. This was flagged in my brain when the recent discussion of butanol for biodiesel came up. Someone said that the viscosity of biodiesel made with butanol would necessarily be higher due to the longer carbon chains in the butanol used in the esterification. The patent application for the electrified biodiesel had a comment about longer carbon chains in the esters due to the electrified process. Would this mean higher viscosity? This has always been a question in my mind since there is no glycerine precipitate, and the bi-product which is a 'etherified glycerine' remains dissolved in the esters how does one know if the reaction takes place other than using fancy tests such as spectroscopy or NMR? I would guess that if there is to be a change in viscosity that there might be a change in specific gravity in which case the volume should go up, or is this a naive assumption? Please excuse my ignorance I'm more of an electronic type. Joe bob allen wrote: Howdy Teoman, looking back in the archives I find the link: http://tinyurl.com/8hjv7 this is to a patent application, not a patent. Even if the process is patented, does that mean that the patent office has checked out the process and confirms that it actually works as described, or simply that the process is novel and has not been described before? Teoman Naskali wrote: Some time ago ther was a thread about producing bd in an alternative way, using electricity. Very high voltages were necessary. I recently saw one of those electric zapper thingies. The ones used for self protetction. Handheld device that gives 200.000 volts. And it operates on 2 x 9V batteries. When you use the device you can actually see the electric arc jump about 2 cm in the air. You could use this device for the generation of high voltages. Hope someone finds this info is usefull. Teoman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.1/207 - Release Date: 12/19/2005 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.2/208 - Release Date: 12/20/2005
Re: [Biofuel] Alternative way of producing bd (using electric)
"As far as I know, patent offices do not check whether inventions work or not or have merit."In the US, there is a requirement for the invention to be useful.Perpetual motion machines (for example) cannot be patented.Someone with skill in the art must also be able tomake and use the invention.http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/com/iip/patents.htm#CanAndCannotPatentDisclaimer: I'm an engineer and (amateur) inventor but, not a lawyer.:-)Mike [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As far as I know, patent offices do not check whether inventions work ornot or have merit.They are solely interested in whether the invention embodies a new,non-trivial (obvious to one "skilled in the art" in question)idea or concept.Doug WoodardSt. Catharines, Ontario, CanadaOn Tue, 20 Dec 2005, bob allen wrote: Howdy Teoman, looking back in the archives I find the link: http://tinyurl.com/8hjv7 this is to a patent application, not a patent. Even if the process is patented, does that mean that the patent office has checked out the process and confirms that it actually works as described, or simply that the process is novel and has not been described before?[snip]___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Alternative way of producing bd (using electric)
Come on Mike. How do you argue that a perpetual motion machine wouldn't be useful? And I take issue with the public morality one too. How many useless, energy consuming gadgets have been patented which only serve to drive our society farther into unsustainability, and will lead to the downfall of our species. Is that immoral or what? Zeke On 12/21/05, Michael Redler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As far as I know, patent offices do not check whether inventions work or not or have merit. In the US, there is a requirement for the invention to be useful. Perpetual motion machines (for example) cannot be patented. Someone with skill in the art must also be able to make and use the invention. http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/com/iip/patents.htm#CanAndCannotPatent Disclaimer: I'm an engineer and (amateur) inventor but, not a lawyer. :-) Mike [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As far as I know, patent offices do not check whether inventions work or not or have merit. They are solely interested in whether the invention embodies a new, non-trivial (obvious to one skilled in the art in question) idea or concept. Doug Woodard St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada On Tue, 20 Dec 2005, bob allen wrote: Howdy Teoman, looking back in the archives I find the link: http://tinyurl.com/8hjv7 this is to a patent application, not a patent. Even if the process is patented, does that mean that the patent office has checked out the process and confirms that it actually works as described, or simply that the process is novel and has not been described before? [snip] ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Alternative way of producing bd (using electric)
From reading some patents I have the impression that the descriptions are designed to distinguish the invention from others, and that in practice the U.S. Patent Office doesn't place any significant weight on ensuring that a reasonably intelligent reader can understand how the invention is supposed to work. To my mind this is wrong. The justification for patents is that the invention is placed in the public domain, available for others to make and use, after the protected period has elapsed. Mind you, in order for that argument to be completely effective, patent law and the courts would have to offer more protection than they do against big corporate pirates who use an invention and count on their large legal budgets to bankrupt any small competitor who tries to protect his patent. The big car companies are notorious for this. I understand that before World War II, U.S. patent law and practice was deliberately designed to make it difficult for foreigners to acquire, hold or enforce U.S. patents; i.e. to encourage international patent piracy by Americans. Doug Woodard St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada On Wed, 21 Dec 2005, Michael Redler wrote: As far as I know, patent offices do not check whether inventions work or not or have merit. In the US, there is a requirement for the invention to be useful. Perpetual motion machines (for example) cannot be patented. Someone with skill in the art must also be able to make and use the invention. http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/com/iip/patents.htm#CanAndCannotPatent Disclaimer: I'm an engineer and (amateur) inventor but, not a lawyer. :-) Mike [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As far as I know, patent offices do not check whether inventions work or not or have merit. They are solely interested in whether the invention embodies a new, non-trivial (obvious to one skilled in the art in question) idea or concept. Doug Woodard St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada On Tue, 20 Dec 2005, bob allen wrote: Howdy Teoman, looking back in the archives I find the link: http://tinyurl.com/8hjv7 this is to a patent application, not a patent. Even if the process is patented, does that mean that the patent office has checked out the process and confirms that it actually works as described, or simply that the process is novel and has not been described before? [snip] ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Alternative way of producing bd (using electric)
Sorry Zeke. I don't know what I was thinking. It's obvious that the US has shifted it's prioreties, seeing the immense value of inventions like...THE HairDini! http://www.hairdini.com/Thanks for setting me straight.MikeZeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Come on Mike. How do you argue that a perpetual motion machinewouldn't be useful?And I take issue with the public morality one too. How many useless,energy consuming gadgets have been patented which only serve to driveour society farther into unsustainability, and will lead to thedownfall of our species. Is that immoral or what?ZekeOn 12/21/05, Michael Redler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: "As far as I know, patent offices do not check whether inventions work or not or have merit." In the US, there is a requirement for the invention to be useful. Perpetual motion machines (for example) cannot be patented. Someone with skill in the art must also be able to make and use the invention. http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/com/iip/patents.htm#CanAndCannotPatent Disclaimer: I'm an engineer and (amateur) inventor but, not a lawyer. :-) Mike___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Alternative way of producing bd (using electric)
In the US, there is a requirement for the invention to be useful. The US the patent office appears to by run with a monkey with a computer, If he cannot find it with Google its gets a patent. I remember the row about inline skates as the Frenchman who made them in the 1860s apparently did not add them to his web site. Sadly gone are the days when people with brains work in the patent office. Chris ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Alternative way of producing bd (using electric)
Without knowing more about the chemical composition of the product mix, it is difficult to say much about the physical properties. Application of high voltage to the oil would produce a welter of products I would guess, so there is no way of knowing what the properties are. For example the etherified glycerin could be 1,2,3-trimethoxypropane, which has a boiling point and viscosity much more like gasoline than diesel fuel. Joe Street wrote: Hi Teoman, and Bob; If this process eventually works it will require not just high voltage but current as well, something like 300 mA at 2Kv. That, you won't get from a 9v battery. I have temporarily suspended my work on the alternative process. Initial tests were not too inspiring. This does not mean I have given up but I have returned to putting time and energy (pun) into my conventional reactor and trying to kick start a cooperative in my community. When time permits I have some ideas I want to investigate with the HV setup. BTW since the thread came back up ( and wish you would have kept the subject line the same) I have a question for the chemistry propeller heads out there. This was flagged in my brain when the recent discussion of butanol for biodiesel came up. Someone said that the viscosity of biodiesel made with butanol would necessarily be higher due to the longer carbon chains in the butanol used in the esterification. The patent application for the electrified biodiesel had a comment about longer carbon chains in the esters due to the electrified process. Would this mean higher viscosity? This has always been a question in my mind since there is no glycerine precipitate, and the bi-product which is a 'etherified glycerine' remains dissolved in the esters how does one know if the reaction takes place other than using fancy tests such as spectroscopy or NMR? I would guess that if there is to be a change in viscosity that there might be a change in specific gravity in which case the volume should go up, or is this a naive assumption? Please excuse my ignorance I'm more of an electronic type. Joe bob allen wrote: Howdy Teoman, looking back in the archives I find the link: http://tinyurl.com/8hjv7 this is to a patent application, not a patent. Even if the process is patented, does that mean that the patent office has checked out the process and confirms that it actually works as described, or simply that the process is novel and has not been described before? Teoman Naskali wrote: Some time ago ther was a thread about producing bd in an alternative way, using electricity. Very high voltages were necessary. I recently saw one of those electric zapper thingies. The ones used for self protetction. Handheld device that gives 200.000 volts. And it operates on 2 x 9V batteries. When you use the device you can actually see the electric arc jump about 2 cm in the air. You could use this device for the generation of high voltages. Hope someone finds this info is usefull. Teoman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.1/207 - Release Date: 12/19/2005 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.2/208 - Release Date: 12/20/2005 -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves - Richard Feynman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
Re: [Biofuel] Alternative way of producing bd (using electric)
Zeke Yewdall wrote: Come on Mike. How do you argue that a perpetual motion machine wouldn't be useful? Perpetual motion machines could indeed be useful. And the patent office WILL grant patents on them. You just have to provide them with one as proof:) I expect to be showing them mine any day now, as soon as I get the last few bugs worked out where IS that flux capacitor when you need it? --- David ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Alternative way of producing bd (using electric)
Howdy Teoman, looking back in the archives I find the link: http://tinyurl.com/8hjv7 this is to a patent application, not a patent. Even if the process is patented, does that mean that the patent office has checked out the process and confirms that it actually works as described, or simply that the process is novel and has not been described before? Teoman Naskali wrote: Some time ago ther was a thread about producing bd in an alternative way, using electricity. Very high voltages were necessary. I recently saw one of those electric zapper thingies. The ones used for self protetction. Handheld device that gives 200.000 volts. And it operates on 2 x 9V batteries. When you use the device you can actually see the electric arc jump about 2 cm in the air. You could use this device for the generation of high voltages. Hope someone finds this info is usefull. Teoman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.1/207 - Release Date: 12/19/2005 -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves - Richard Feynman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Alternative way of producing bd (using electric)
Hi Teoman, and Bob; If this process eventually works it will require not just high voltage but current as well, something like 300 mA at 2Kv. That, you won't get from a 9v battery. I have temporarily suspended my work on the alternative process. Initial tests were not too inspiring. This does not mean I have given up but I have returned to putting time and energy (pun) into my conventional reactor and trying to kick start a cooperative in my community. When time permits I have some ideas I want to investigate with the HV setup. BTW since the thread came back up ( and wish you would have kept the subject line the same) I have a question for the chemistry propeller heads out there. This was flagged in my brain when the recent discussion of butanol for biodiesel came up. Someone said that the viscosity of biodiesel made with butanol would necessarily be higher due to the longer carbon chains in the butanol used in the esterification. The patent application for the electrified biodiesel had a comment about longer carbon chains in the esters due to the electrified process. Would this mean higher viscosity? This has always been a question in my mind since there is no glycerine precipitate, and the bi-product which is a 'etherified glycerine' remains dissolved in the esters how does one know if the reaction takes place other than using fancy tests such as spectroscopy or NMR? I would guess that if there is to be a change in viscosity that there might be a change in specific gravity in which case the volume should go up, or is this a naive assumption? Please excuse my ignorance I'm more of an electronic type. Joe bob allen wrote: Howdy Teoman, looking back in the archives I find the link: http://tinyurl.com/8hjv7 this is to a patent application, not a patent. Even if the process is patented, does that mean that the patent office has checked out the process and confirms that it actually works as described, or simply that the process is novel and has not been described before? Teoman Naskali wrote: Some time ago ther was a thread about producing bd in an alternative way, using electricity. Very high voltages were necessary. I recently saw one of those electric zapper thingies. The ones used for self protetction. Handheld device that gives 200.000 volts. And it operates on 2 x 9V batteries. When you use the device you can actually see the electric arc jump about 2 cm in the air. You could use this device for the generation of high voltages. Hope someone finds this info is usefull. Teoman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.1/207 - Release Date: 12/19/2005 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Alternative way of producing bd (using electric)
bob allen wrote: Howdy Teoman, looking back in the archives I find the link: http://tinyurl.com/8hjv7 this is to a patent application, not a patent. Even if the process is patented, does that mean that the patent office has checked out the process and confirms that it actually works as described, or simply that the process is novel and has not been described before? The application that someone has figured out something they consider new, useful, and worth protecting and has applied to the patent office for protection. The USPTO does not verify that inventions work as their applicants state. As I understand it they pretty much trust the inventor except in the case of perpetual motion machines. They require a demonstration for those:) The fact that a patent has been granted on a drug to cure stupidity does not mean that the USPTO has seen such a drug work. --- David ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Alternative way of producing bd (using electric)
For an interesting read on some of the bizarre twists patent law takes, search for blackberry patent in google news. It seems that althought NTP never actually built the equipment for their patent, Blackberry did (to great financial reward), without buying the patent rights from NTP. If you read some of the reports on the history of NTP, it's a little odd -- almost looks like their business plan was solely based on either selling their patent (not that uncommon), or if I interpreted it really cynically, patenting various ideas that someone else was sure to use at some point, then suing them over it when they did. (And now Microsoft is being sued too -- not small fish here) Zeke On 12/20/05, David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: bob allen wrote: Howdy Teoman, looking back in the archives I find the link: http://tinyurl.com/8hjv7 this is to a patent application, not a patent. Even if the process is patented, does that mean that the patent office has checked out the process and confirms that it actually works as described, or simply that the process is novel and has not been described before? The application that someone has figured out something they consider new, useful, and worth protecting and has applied to the patent office for protection. The USPTO does not verify that inventions work as their applicants state. As I understand it they pretty much trust the inventor except in the case of perpetual motion machines. They require a demonstration for those:) The fact that a patent has been granted on a drug to cure stupidity does not mean that the USPTO has seen such a drug work. --- David ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Alternative way of producing bd (using electric)
HAY David then pills you sold me dont werk MIKE David Miller wrote: bob allen wrote: Howdy Teoman, looking back in the archives I find the link: http://tinyurl.com/8hjv7 this is to a patent application, not a patent. Even if the process is patented, does that mean that the patent office has checked out the process and confirms that it actually works as described, or simply that the process is novel and has not been described before? The application that someone has figured out something they consider new, useful, and worth protecting and has applied to the patent office for protection. The USPTO does not verify that inventions work as their applicants state. As I understand it they pretty much trust the inventor except in the case of perpetual motion machines. They require a demonstration for those:) The fact that a patent has been granted on a drug to cure stupidity does not mean that the USPTO has seen such a drug work. --- David ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Alternative way of producing bd (using electric)
As far as I know, patent offices do not check whether inventions work or not or have merit. They are solely interested in whether the invention embodies a new, non-trivial (obvious to one skilled in the art in question) idea or concept. Doug Woodard St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada On Tue, 20 Dec 2005, bob allen wrote: Howdy Teoman, looking back in the archives I find the link: http://tinyurl.com/8hjv7 this is to a patent application, not a patent. Even if the process is patented, does that mean that the patent office has checked out the process and confirms that it actually works as described, or simply that the process is novel and has not been described before? [snip] ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Alternative way of producing bd (using electric)
Well AFAIK it costs money to file patents and you would have to have a lot of it to play games with bogus patents but who knows? It was relatively painless for me to try a few tests but unless I missed something it's not as simple as it sounds. I want to do some corona experiments but I have to make some changes to my power supply before I can do that. If you read the abstract it is written as if much experimentation had been done to find the right process conditions. It does not seem to be the work of someone dreaming up a possible process. Much empirical data is included in the document. Strange indeed. Joe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As far as I know, patent offices do not check whether inventions work or not or have merit. They are solely interested in whether the invention embodies a new, non-trivial (obvious to one "skilled in the art" in question) idea or concept. Doug Woodard St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada On Tue, 20 Dec 2005, bob allen wrote: Howdy Teoman, looking back in the archives I find the link: http://tinyurl.com/8hjv7 this is to a patent application, not a patent. Even if the process is patented, does that mean that the patent office has checked out the process and confirms that it actually works as described, or simply that the process is novel and has not been described before? [snip] ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Alternative way of producing bd (using electric)
Mike Weaver wrote: HAY David then pills you sold me dont werk MIKE Mike, like I told you, you have to take them longer. At least 30 days, and if you miss a day you have to start all over. You obviously missed a day, so I'll be expecting your next order right away! --- David David Miller wrote: bob allen wrote: Howdy Teoman, looking back in the archives I find the link: http://tinyurl.com/8hjv7 this is to a patent application, not a patent. Even if the process is patented, does that mean that the patent office has checked out the process and confirms that it actually works as described, or simply that the process is novel and has not been described before? The application that someone has figured out something they consider new, useful, and worth protecting and has applied to the patent office for protection. The USPTO does not verify that inventions work as their applicants state. As I understand it they pretty much trust the inventor except in the case of perpetual motion machines. They require a demonstration for those:) The fact that a patent has been granted on a drug to cure stupidity does not mean that the USPTO has seen such a drug work. --- David ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
