Re: [Biofuel] Bio-Diesel from algae - AGAIN!
Kieth, I read an article about the studies on making biodiesel from algae. What I read said that they can do it, but they do not know whether it will be cost effective or not. So I guess that is the next part of the study. Sounds exciting but I guess we will see whether it is realistic or not. Untill next time, Patrick. On 7/5/11, Darryl McMahon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm making a note to myself to check the site on July 9th to see if the discount has expired, or more likely, been renewed. Darryl McMahon The Emperor's New Hydrogen Economy http://www.econogics.com/TENHE/ On 05/07/2011 4:49 PM, Wynand Theron wrote: Hi, Do any one of you know something about the book talked about here? Rgds, Wynand * The 2012 Edition of Making Algae Biodiesel at Home is finished! You'll get more new material, including... Building a Bio-pond. Building a Backyard Open pond. Info about microwave oil extraction Info about pressure cooker oil extraction Plus a special (Free) bonus Where I include a plan to supply gasoline to the entire state of Alabama! Use discount code 15percent to get a 15% discount which is good through midnight on Friday July 8th only. Click here to get your discount! Making Algae Biodiesel at Homehttps://www.e-junkie.com/ecom/gb.php?ii=96320c=ibaff=27372ev=0781a74ad7%20target=%22ejejcsingle%22 Use the discount code 15percent Here's to ENERGY independence and freedom! Sincerely, Bill Anderson David Sieg ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Patrick Wenner 15919 485th Ave Revillo SD, 57259 Phone # 605-623-4306 E-mail, [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Bio-Diesel from algae - AGAIN!
I'm making a note to myself to check the site on July 9th to see if the discount has expired, or more likely, been renewed. Darryl McMahon The Emperor's New Hydrogen Economy http://www.econogics.com/TENHE/ On 05/07/2011 4:49 PM, Wynand Theron wrote: Hi, Do any one of you know something about the book talked about here? Rgds, Wynand * The 2012 Edition of Making Algae Biodiesel at Home is finished! You'll get more new material, including... Building a Bio-pond. Building a Backyard Open pond. Info about microwave oil extraction Info about pressure cooker oil extraction Plus a special (Free) bonus Where I include a plan to supply gasoline to the entire state of Alabama! Use discount code 15percent to get a 15% discount which is good through midnight on Friday July 8th only. Click here to get your discount! Making Algae Biodiesel at Homehttps://www.e-junkie.com/ecom/gb.php?ii=96320c=ibaff=27372ev=0781a74ad7%20target=%22ejejcsingle%22 Use the discount code 15percent Here's to ENERGY independence and freedom! Sincerely, Bill Anderson David Sieg ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Bio-diesel replacing Home Heating Oil
Tony, I've been burning BD in my home heating system for three heating seasons. I have a Beckett burner on my Burnham boiler. It supplies heat and domestic hot water. I suggest that you T a small tank into the fuel line so that you can make adjustments to the system using increasing BD blends. Be sure to use flare fittings and solid brass valves. Compression fittings and cheap valves tend to leak. Have spare filter cartridges and nozzles on hand. Personal Experience/burner modifications: Year One: ~20% blend in my storage tank w/o any modifications. Experimented w. higher BD blends in my day tank I ran into start-up problems as my blend approached 40% BD. Modifications: Increased pump pressure from 100 psi to 125 psi Changed nozzle from 1.0 gph/80 degree to .75gph/80 degree Reduced air flow into the burner Sealed any openings to chamber other than the inspection port. I switched from a Suntech to a Webster Bio-Pump (biodiesel compatible) It runs reliably on B100. I haven't bought HHO in two years. My storage tank is in my basement ~50F (10C) winter temps. - I ran the fuel line up and then down a section of pipe that carries hot water to my baseboard heaters. It is heavily insulated. During the coldest times of the year the fuel is warmed a bit before it gets to the pump. This is not the same as a nozzle pre-heater. I have one, but never installed it. - For my heating system I make a lower quality BD (16 - 18 % methanol vol/vol + brew larger batches) that does not quite pass the quality test. It is washed and dried. I suggest that as you tune your heating system, you use quality BD in order to rule out the fuel quality variable. - The day tank will be useful later if you want experiment w. burning lower quality BD, BD/WVO blends, BD/FFA blends. At this point a nozzle pre-heater may come in handy. This is not a once size fits all situation. Different systems seem to involve different adjustments; no serious modifications however. Good suggestion from JtF: Alternative fuels furnace forum -- altfuelfurnace Alternative fuels, like SVO (straight vegetable oil, waste vegetable oil), waste motor oil and biodiesel are being successfully burned in adapted residential oil-fired furnace burners such as Arco, R.W. Beckett, Carlin, Ducane, Esso, International, Riello, Slant Finn and Wayne. The forum is a meeting place to exchange information and ideas in adapting residential oil burners that use HHO (home heating oil) to these alternative fuels. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/altfuelfurnace/ Subscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] They have a section devoted to biodiesel. Good luck. Is Berkshire, NY in the Finger Lakes Region? Tom - Original Message - From: Tony Marzolino [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 10:32 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Bio-diesel replacing Home Heating Oil Hello List, Is anyone using BD to replace #2 home heating oil? If yes, where there any modifications to the finance? Are you using a mixture (ex. B50) or 100%. Is the tank located inside the structure or outside? If outside any modifications to prevent gelling? We did some very preliminary testings using B50 and found the output to be approx the same as #2. But the nozzle needed to be cleaned first. Any comments are greatly appreciated. Thanks, Tony Marzolino Berkshire, NY - You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20080406/a8d37340/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Bio-diesel replacing Home Heating Oil
may i suggest this fine reading? http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_heaters.html#bioheat Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 19:32:05 -0700 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] Bio-diesel replacing Home Heating Oil Hello List, Is anyone using BD to replace #2 home heating oil? If yes, where there any modifications to the finance? Are you using a mixture (ex. B50) or 100%. Is the tank located inside the structure or outside? If outside any modifications to prevent gelling? We did some very preliminary testings using B50 and found the output to be approx the same as #2. But the nozzle needed to be cleaned first. Any comments are greatly appreciated. Thanks, Tony Marzolino Berkshire, NY - You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20080406/a8d37340/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ _ Pack up or back up–use SkyDrive to transfer files or keep extra copies. Learn how. hthttp://www.windowslive.com/skydrive/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_skydrive_packup_042008 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Bio-Diesel Slogan any thoughts
Biodiesel, just like dinodiesel minus 265 million years.On 10/27/06, Logan vilas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Bio-Diesel, Runs more like petro-Diesel.Just Without belching out black smoke and without the chemical smell. Logan Vilas___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Thanks,PCHe's the kind of a guy who lights up a room just by flicking a switchIt's a small world, but I wouldn't want to paint it. - Steven WrightHow good bad music and bad reasons sound when we march against an enemy. - Friedrich Nietzsche ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Bio-Diesel Slogan any thoughts
Bio-Diesel, $Green for you and Green for the Environment Sarath On 10/27/06, Logan vilas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Bio-Diesel, Runs more like petro-Diesel.Just Without belching out black smoke and without the chemical smell. Logan Vilas ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Bio-Diesel Slogan any thoughts
Here's my suggestion: Quit smoking. Burn biodiesel. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] bio diesel burners
Hi R. I did burn biodiesel in my multifuel backpacking stove and it works beautifully once it gets lit but I had to heat the generator tube with a propane torch to get it hot enough to vaporize the methyl esters. Joe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am considering making a bio diesel burner to fit into a 50 gallon gas water heater that will act as my WVO drying / preheat tank. Has anybody done this? I wonder if a small version of the mother earth waste oil burner will work. I also thought i read somewhere on the JTF website or on the mailing list that somebody burned biodiesel thru a camp stove. Can anybody give me some input on this idea? r. allison ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] bio diesel burners
I haven't had much luck with a BrightLyt stove on BD - though some people report it burns BD fine. I think Keith uses an old roarer which you used to see out in the backcountry. There is a stoves page on JtF. You could also look at www.woodgas.com - not BD but pretty cool. -Mike [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am considering making a bio diesel burner to fit into a 50 gallon gas water heater that will act as my WVO drying / preheat tank. Has anybody done this? I wonder if a small version of the mother earth waste oil burner will work. I also thought i read somewhere on the JTF website or on the mailing list that somebody burned biodiesel thru a camp stove. Can anybody give me some input on this idea? r. allison ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Bio diesel newbie q reply by webmaster
Even though it seemed like the newbie was being chastised, I found the reply VERY usefull. It answered several questions that have come into my mind since I began this sojourn a couple of weeks ago. At the risk of also getting chewed, my question has to do with keeping the mixture up to temp while the reaction is going on. I am at the stage of setting up my small reactor to learn the process. I am looking around and wondering if I could use a hot water bath that is electrically heated? I want to do the small processes and develop my technique, but I would really rather not have to babysit the reaction constantly watching a thermometer. Any help appreciated. Greg Kelly___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Bio diesel newbie q reply by webmaster
Hello Greg Even though it seemed like the newbie was being chastised, Yes he was. I found the reply VERY usefull. Well, he wasn't *only* being chastised... Glad you found it useful. It answered several questions that have come into my mind since I began this sojourn a couple of weeks ago. At the risk of also getting chewed, my question has to do with keeping the mixture up to temp while the reaction is going on. I am at the stage of setting up my small reactor to learn the process. I am looking around and wondering if I could use a hot water bath that is electrically heated? I want to do the small processes and develop my technique, but I would really rather not have to babysit the reaction constantly watching a thermometer. Any help appreciated. The Make your first test batch section at the Journey to Forever website refers to a mini-processor, which is here: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor7.html Test-batch mini-processor It uses a hot-water bath. It says: A crock-pot might do instead of a spaghetti cooker and a portable gas ring. Our gas ring died so now we use a hot-plate instead. The hot-plate is electric and has a thermostat. With a bit of practice it's easy to adjust it to the temperature you want to maintain and it's quite reliable. The wonders of automation. This set-up works well, we much prefer it to the gas-ring. Actually with the old gas-ring it says: The temperature only needs adjustment twice in an hour at normal room temperature. With a bigger processor it needs even less adjustment, even in this weather, and even without insulating the tank. I've never bothered to fit a thermostat to our 90-litre processor's heating element. I've never left it on by mistake either, but that possibility would be the only reason I might get a thermostat. I don't spend much time watching thermometers though, in the meantime. The gas-ring was junk anyway, free from the Tokyo gomi (trash), and I don't think we paid anything for the hotplate, someone gave it to us or it was here when we moved in or something. Maybe you could get one at a second-hand store. HTH Best Keith Greg Kelly ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Bio diesel newbie q reply by webmaster
On Mar 15, 2006, at 7:49 AM, greg Kelly wrote:.my question has to do with keeping the mixture up to tempwhile the reaction is going on. I am wondering if I could usea hot water bath that is electrically heated? Shouldn't be necessary -- even my little 7 gallon batches onlydrop from 35C to maybe 30C over the course of an hour. Ofcourse, if it's freezing in your work area, or you want to keep thebatch warm for several hours, you might need something likeyou suggest.-K___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Bio diesel newbie q - How do I accurately measure 100+ liters of oil?
This is what I did I use a 55 gal drum with a clamp on lid has worked well for 8 to 10 120 liter batches. I got a 4 liter measuring cup from a chemical supplier and used water 2 liters at a time 2 get to the 120 liter measure. Using a tape measure measured from the bottom of the drum to the liquid level. Just fill to the same measure each time. = 120 liters. This works since the drum is open. For different closed containers or containers that would be hard or imposable to use a tape measure use a liquid level sight gauge and add accurately pre measured amounts mark the sight gauge at levels that work for you. Good luck Derick From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Keith Addison Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 11:34 PM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Bio diesel newbie q - How do I accurately measure 100+ litres of oil? Hello Nigel I suspect this is a complete newbie question - but being a newbie - I feel entitled to ask. Newbies aren't entitled to anything special that other members aren't also entitled to. What you're obliged to do however is to try to avoid asking newbie questions that have been asked and answered many times already, unless you've something to add. List resources Please make use of the resources listed at the Biofuel list home page: http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Especially the searchable list archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ The archives contains more than 50,000 messages over nearly five years. The question you want to ask or the topic you're interested in has probably already been covered. That's no reason not to ask it again, but if you know what's gone before you'll ask a better question and get better answers. See: List rules http://snipurl.com/mx7r Just so you know. Accuracy and scale have certainly been discussed before, but never mind. ok - picture this - I've been out and done the decent thing - found myself a lot of Waste Veggie Oil that I want to convert to Bio Diesel.. I do the titration, and get the exact amount of NzOH to add to a litre... and now I need to multiply that by the amount of oil I have. I expect to have approximately 100l... but how do I know... accurately? How accurate do I need to be in order to get a good result? How accurate have you needed to be in order to get good results with one-litre test batches? What tolerances have you been working to with your one-litre tests with WVO? You can use the same tolerances or better with 100 litres. Eg, you should have been using scales accurate to 0.1 grams or better to measure the lye for 1 litre of oil. For 100 litres of oil, multiply that by 100 and you get a margin of error of 10 grams. If your oil titrates at say 2.5 ml 0.1% NaOH solution that will total 600 grams for 100 litres, 10 grams either way is a 3.3% margin. You should be able to improve on that. I have thought of setting up a simple balance beam, with a weight on one side the exactly equals 100l of oil, + the drum weight. I then add or tap off oil until I hit the exact 100l mark. There must be other/better/standard ways of doing it though? Volume seems the more obvious measure. Heat one litre of the oil to processing temperature and measure it again so you can adjust for the volume increase for measuring oil at room-temperature. Graduate the processor tank in convenient increments with marks you can see easily, or do that to the holding tank or pre-heating tank if you have one. Or use a bucket - add 10 measures of one litre from an accurate measuring flask and mark it as you go, then fill the processor in 10-litre batches. Do it carefully and you'll be fine. It's much simpler if you always make standard-sized batches. Um, have you made any successful test batches yet? Three weeks ago you were still sourcing chemicals. Best Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel list owner Tips and answers very welcome! Cheers Nigel ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Bio diesel newbie q - How do I accurately measure 100+ litres of oil?
Hello Nigel I suspect this is a complete newbie question - but being a newbie - I feel entitled to ask. Newbies aren't entitled to anything special that other members aren't also entitled to. What you're obliged to do however is to try to avoid asking newbie questions that have been asked and answered many times already, unless you've something to add. List resources Please make use of the resources listed at the Biofuel list home page: http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Especially the searchable list archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ The archives contains more than 50,000 messages over nearly five years. The question you want to ask or the topic you're interested in has probably already been covered. That's no reason not to ask it again, but if you know what's gone before you'll ask a better question and get better answers. See: List rules http://snipurl.com/mx7r Just so you know. Accuracy and scale have certainly been discussed before, but never mind. ok - picture this - I've been out and done the decent thing - found myself a lot of Waste Veggie Oil that I want to convert to Bio Diesel.. I do the titration, and get the exact amount of NzOH to add to a litre... and now I need to multiply that by the amount of oil I have. I expect to have approximately 100l... but how do I know... accurately? How accurate do I need to be in order to get a good result? How accurate have you needed to be in order to get good results with one-litre test batches? What tolerances have you been working to with your one-litre tests with WVO? You can use the same tolerances or better with 100 litres. Eg, you should have been using scales accurate to 0.1 grams or better to measure the lye for 1 litre of oil. For 100 litres of oil, multiply that by 100 and you get a margin of error of 10 grams. If your oil titrates at say 2.5 ml 0.1% NaOH solution that will total 600 grams for 100 litres, 10 grams either way is a 3.3% margin. You should be able to improve on that. I have thought of setting up a simple balance beam, with a weight on one side the exactly equals 100l of oil, + the drum weight. I then add or tap off oil until I hit the exact 100l mark. There must be other/better/standard ways of doing it though? Volume seems the more obvious measure. Heat one litre of the oil to processing temperature and measure it again so you can adjust for the volume increase for measuring oil at room-temperature. Graduate the processor tank in convenient increments with marks you can see easily, or do that to the holding tank or pre-heating tank if you have one. Or use a bucket - add 10 measures of one litre from an accurate measuring flask and mark it as you go, then fill the processor in 10-litre batches. Do it carefully and you'll be fine. It's much simpler if you always make standard-sized batches. Um, have you made any successful test batches yet? Three weeks ago you were still sourcing chemicals. Best Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel list owner Tips and answers very welcome! Cheers Nigel ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Bio-Diesel in Palestine
Hello Todd, Elad ... a 1,500 gallon bottleneck and no bottle! :-( Dikes indeed. Anything further to say about those pumps so other folks can steer clear? Elad, you said we have a much smaller machine (50-100 l/day) which we hope to start working with in the very near future, can you give us more details of that and of what you're doing with it? Have you been through the learning-curve series of small test-batches yet? See: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#start I agree with what Todd says regarding learning more about the process before you start building a processor. Some comments below... Elad, Sorry to be slow in responding to your other questions. We've got a 325 gallon batch system similar to the design you saw at JTF that burped a couple of times last week which created a 1,500 gallon bottleneck we've been busy overcoming. Problem was seals on two new pumps failing straight out of the box and a weak bulkhead fitting that couldn't take the pressure of a completely filled tank. Had to jostle the contents to other tanks to effect repairs, which throttled everything instantly. Good things came of it though. First one is a greater degree of appreciation for diked facilities. Most people greatly overlook the safety and sanity margin afforded by a little concrete applied as a containment barrier. As for the design on JTF, it's a little overkill unless you're producing flat out. We have a lite version that's recommended for those producing perhaps only one cycle daily or less.The design you saw is presently being engineered with slight alterations as a turn key plant to be produced in quantities of scale. That should bring costs down considerably in comparison to constructing ones and twos. When the drawing was published at JTF (pushing two years now?) Thursday, May 13, 2004, it says here, and it gets about 4,000 page visits a month, FYI: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor9.html it was done primarily to show those interested what is involved to properly (environmentally and economically efficient) prepare biodiesel. Most who get into biodiesel, even many engineers, are a wee tad clueless and soon find there to be far more in a cradle to grave system than what they may have originally thought. The primary reason that few specs were assigned to the drawing is that many prospective builders/owners will perhaps have a large degree of the equipment needed already on hand, helping to avoid capital costs. In dairy country, much of the system could be built out of discarded or dormant dairy equipment. As well, there are a lot of sharp tacks out there that could build a plant without the help of consultants, engineers and high-priced blueprints, if they only had a guideline to work from. So the design was left as a general layout. There were two other reasons it wasn't presented at an engineered level. The first is that if the viewer couldn't grasp what was occurring on the flow sheet, they probably ought to become considerably more familiar with the process and the handling of all co products before continuing. The other was that there are entire herds of sharpies out there looking to market other people's work for a profit without putting any effort or understanding into the process proper. We get numerous contacts each week demanding that we make engineered drawings available to them, quite literally for free. We get those too, many of them each week. I don't believe there's anything to be gained by helping such folks, not even by them. There's also a bunch of people who seem to make a good living selling bits of our website on e-Bay and so on, people steal stuff and say it's theirs. We've discussed all this here a few times. We knew it would happen when we launched the JtF website, it's no reason to change our minds about sharing information. Some previous (whole thread at the end of the pages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg30371.html Re: [biofuel] Commercial production Keith Addison, Thu, 11 Dec 2003 http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg54689.html Re: [Biofuel] Venezuela to Provide Discounted Heating Oil and Free Eye O Joe Street, Fri, 02 Sep 2005 Parasites are a necessary part of nature but in a balanced ecology they're kept in control by other factors, they're only a small part of what happens and they do little real damage. Indeed they have a role to play, in spite of themselves. The Internet also has it's plagues of viruses, it gets worms, and the other sorts of parasites too it seems. We can live with that. Just as long as it's organically grown. :-) Don't have much patience for demanding people. On the other hand, we'll darned near give anything away for free to those who were raised with a dash less arrogance. Well said! That last bit's most people, IMHO. Best Keith That said, be aware that the process is lineal. The design you mention can be scaled up or down with essentially no
Re: [Biofuel] Bio-Diesel in Palestine
Elad, Sorry to be slow in responding to your other questions. We've got a 325 gallon batch system similar to the design you saw at JTF that burped a couple of times last week which created a 1,500 gallon bottleneck we've been busy overcoming. Problem was seals on two new pumps failing straight out of the box and a weak bulkhead fitting that couldn't take the pressure of a completely filled tank. Had to jostle the contents to other tanks to effect repairs, which throttled everything instantly. Good things came of it though. First one is a greater degree of appreciation for diked facilities. Most people greatly overlook the safety and sanity margin afforded by a little concrete applied as a containment barrier. As for the design on JTF, it's a little overkill unless you're producing flat out. We have a lite version that's recommended for those producing perhaps only one cycle daily or less.The design you saw is presently being engineered with slight alterations as a turn key plant to be produced in quantities of scale. That should bring costs down considerably in comparison to constructing ones and twos. When the drawing was published at JTF (pushing two years now?) it was done primarily to show those interested what is involved to properly (environmentally and economically efficient) prepare biodiesel. Most who get into biodiesel, even many engineers, are a wee tad clueless and soon find there to be far more in a cradle to grave system than what they may have originally thought. The primary reason that few specs were assigned to the drawing is that many prospective builders/owners will perhaps have a large degree of the equipment needed already on hand, helping to avoid capital costs. In dairy country, much of the system could be built out of discarded or dormant dairy equipment. As well, there are a lot of sharp tacks out there that could build a plant without the help of consultants, engineers and high-priced blueprints, if they only had a guideline to work from. So the design was left as a general layout. There were two other reasons it wasn't presented at an engineered level. The first is that if the viewer couldn't grasp what was occurring on the flow sheet, they probably ought to become considerably more familiar with the process and the handling of all co products before continuing. The other was that there are entire herds of sharpies out there looking to market other people's work for a profit without putting any effort or understanding into the process proper. We get numerous contacts each week demanding that we make engineered drawings available to them, quite literally for free. Don't have much patience for demanding people. On the other hand, we'll darned near give anything away for free to those who were raised with a dash less arrogance. That said, be aware that the process is lineal. The design you mention can be scaled up or down with essentially no changes. We have made some mods relative to mixing and pumping. We're opting out of mechanical stirring and electrical pumps/motors, not only to increase safety margins, but their increased cost at larger scales. Pneumatic is essentially explosion proof and brings such a system back under regulatory radar in that respect. Pneumatic is also more serviceable and components can be more universal in applications that require variable pump speeds. If you end up engineering this yourself, the suggestion would be to stay with a manual system, either literally or centrally operated. PLC automation is an unnecessary extravagance, in my not so always humble belief. As for production schedules? You could easily achieve four cycles in a twenty-four hour period. The system would need to include flash dryers at the finishing stage and depending upon the type of feedstock and degree of degradation you might have to either double the number of esterification tanks or increase the size. Another option, again depending upon your feedstock, would be to eliminate the esterification stage, and after recovering a sufficient volume of free fatty acids occassionally use the transesterification reactor for a batch esterification cycle. The option really all depends upon the value and quality of your feedstock, how much process heat you'll need in your plant (to which your FFAs can be directed as boiler fuel) and the per finished unit cost of one direction or the other. Perhaps if you could better indicate what some of your parameters are going to be, a target could be zeroed in on a little more readily and we could help you circumnavigate some avoidable pitfalls. That's a large part of what we're doing this for. Todd Swearingen Appal Energy Elad Orian wrote: Hello All, I was moved to see the quick reply I got from all of you around the world. Many thanks indeed. down to business. At the moment we are at the stage of building our business plan and contacting investors. I am responsible for
Re: [Biofuel] Bio-Diesel in Palestine
Hello All, I was moved to see the quick reply I got from all of you around the world. Many thanks indeed. down to business. At the moment we are at the stage of building our business plan and contacting investors. I am responsible for the technical side and the Israeli side of the business. The starting point for the plant is the plan on the journey to forever site by Todd Swearingen. we have a much smaller machine (50-100 l/day) which we hope to start working with in the very near future to shoe to suppliers and customers and get more hands on experience at the production and business side. my question, or rather request, is for help with the details of the plan. We have access to welders and machine shop people (but we do not want to buy in Maale edumim - it is a settlement) so the construction can be done locally. What I need to do now is to turn this sketch to a full fledged plan that i can get a price offer on to go an ask for money from investors and funds. the next thing i would need would be the routines that the factory was designed for: how many hours in each stage, what materials at what concentrations... I know that is asking for quit a lot but i really try and build on other's people knowledge and experience in this project. many thanks indeed, elad. p.s. we will start experimenting with a two stage acid/base reaction soon so probably many more questions. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Bio-Diesel in Palestine
Hello Elad, welcome Hello All, I was moved to see the quick reply I got from all of you around the world. Many thanks indeed. down to business. At the moment we are at the stage of building our business plan and contacting investors. I am responsible for the technical side and the Israeli side of the business. The starting point for the plant is the plan on the journey to forever site by Todd Swearingen. we have a much smaller machine (50-100 l/day) which we hope to start working with in the very near future to shoe to suppliers and customers and get more hands on experience at the production and business side. my question, or rather request, is for help with the details of the plan. We have access to welders and machine shop people (but we do not want to buy in Maale edumim - it is a settlement) so the construction can be done locally. What I need to do now is to turn this sketch to a full fledged plan that i can get a price offer on to go an ask for money from investors and funds. the next thing i would need would be the routines that the factory was designed for: how many hours in each stage, what materials at what concentrations... I know that is asking for quit a lot but i really try and build on other's people knowledge and experience in this project. many thanks indeed, elad. p.s. we will start experimenting with a two stage acid/base reaction soon so probably many more questions. That's not the place to start, it's an advanced method, not for beginners. It says at the top of the two-stage acid-base page: NOTE: The two-stage biodiesel processes are advanced methods, not for novices -- learn the basics thoroughly first. The single-stage base method is the place to start. Start here. Not for novices: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#whystart Here being here: Where do I start? http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#start It's not that the two-stage process won't work for you, it probably will work, but you won't have learnt the basics of biodiesel processing and, not if, but when you hit a problem batch you'll be lost and won't know how to trouble-shoot it. We've seen this here many times. The information on making biodiesel at the Journey to Forever website is an integrated, step-by-step course that will teach you everything you need to know if you follow it properly. Don't start in the middle. Best wishes Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Bio Diesel Pump
Hi!You should not reduce the suction side ,only the discharge,ohtervise the pump will cavitate.The 5 ' rise should be ok but try to limit you're elbowes specially right after the discharge! - Original Message - From: Larry Foranmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2005 2:53 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Bio Diesel Pump Before I ask my question, I did search the archives but did not find any information regarding my specific question. I am building a BD processor - based on the appelseed design - and I intend to use a Northern Industiral Clear water Pump - 760GPH, 1 1/2in ports. I would like to neck the ports down to 3/4 in, but not being a plumber or fluid mechanic, I wanted to know if this would case and pressure problem. I will be processing 40gallons (US). The static head will be approx 5ft. Any help would be appreciated. tks, Larry ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuelhttp://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlhttp://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Bio Diesel Pump
Jules Thank you for the info. I will have two elbows after the discharge (both at the five foot height). I will also be modifying the discharge from the reactor to accomodate a 1 1/2 feed to the pump. Appreciate the help. Larry On 5/11/05, Jules Veres [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi!You should not reduce the suction side ,only the discharge,ohtervise the pump will cavitate.The 5 ' rise should be ok but try to limit you're elbowes specially right after the discharge! - Original Message - From: Larry Foranmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2005 2:53 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Bio Diesel Pump Before I ask my question, I did search the archives but did not find any information regarding my specific question. I am building a BD processor - based on the appelseed design - and I intend to use a Northern Industiral Clear water Pump - 760GPH, 1 1/2in ports. I would like to neck the ports down to 3/4 in, but not being a plumber or fluid mechanic, I wanted to know if this would case and pressure problem. I will be processing 40gallons (US). The static head will be approx 5ft. Any help would be appreciated. tks, Larry ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuelhttp://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlhttp://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [biofuel] Bio diesel questions
Dear John, In the process to manufacture edible oils any anti foaming agent used get burnt by and large in the process and only traces are left, which in no way can harm the engine. It is a suggestion that while using WVO be careful and is suggested to have a prefilter before you proceed with Biodiesel. This will save catalyst. from poisoning and reducing cost! Regards magarwal [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Bio Diesel
Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dave, Hempseed oil, that was a new one for me. LOL Read a lot about him, but not this. Can you give me your source. Maybe you also can tell me, what the diesel engine was designed to run on and it failed to do. Hakan At 22:30 13/05/2004, you wrote: I wonder how many of us realize that Rudolph Diesel, yes the guy who invented the diesel engine, actually utilized HEMPSEED OIL as his fuel source and that it wasn't until years later that petroleum was synthesized to make a diesel fuel? there is a book written by Jack Herer called The Emperor Wears No Clothes you can find EVERYTHING you want to know about hemp and hemp byproducts within this volume. Enlightening and informative, I give it a rating of 100 on the Ecological Savior scale of 1 to 10 - Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2' [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Bio Diesel
I always heard it was designed to run on peanut oil. - Original Message - From: david browne [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 7:38 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Bio Diesel Hakan Falk wrote: Dave, Hempseed oil, that was a new one for me. LOL Read a lot about him, but not this. Can you give me your source. Maybe you also can tell me, what the diesel engine was designed to run on and it failed to do. Hakan At 22:30 13/05/2004, you wrote: I wonder how many of us realize that Rudolph Diesel, yes the guy who invented the diesel engine, actually utilized HEMPSEED OIL as his fuel source and that it wasn't until years later that petroleum was synthesized to make a diesel fuel? there is a book written by Jack Herer called The Emperor Wears No Clothes you can find EVERYTHING you want to know about hemp and hemp byproducts within this volume. Enlightening and informative, I give it a rating of 100 on the Ecological Savior scale of 1 to 10 - Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2' [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
The Emperor Wears No Clothes - was Re: [biofuel] Bio Diesel
Hello Dave, Hakan and all The Emperor Wears No Clothes is online at Jack Herer's website, in full-text I think. It's here, along with much else about hemp: http://www.jackherer.com/chapters.html Jack Herer - Chapters Best wishes Keith Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dave, Hempseed oil, that was a new one for me. LOL Read a lot about him, but not this. Can you give me your source. Maybe you also can tell me, what the diesel engine was designed to run on and it failed to do. Hakan At 22:30 13/05/2004, you wrote: I wonder how many of us realize that Rudolph Diesel, yes the guy who invented the diesel engine, actually utilized HEMPSEED OIL as his fuel source and that it wasn't until years later that petroleum was synthesized to make a diesel fuel? there is a book written by Jack Herer called The Emperor Wears No Clothes you can find EVERYTHING you want to know about hemp and hemp byproducts within this volume. Enlightening and informative, I give it a rating of 100 on the Ecological Savior scale of 1 to 10 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Bio Diesel
Hello Dave I wonder how many of us realize that Rudolph Diesel, yes the guy who invented the diesel engine, actually utilized HEMPSEED OIL as his fuel source and that it wasn't until years later that petroleum was synthesized to make a diesel fuel? Actually it's quite famous, but the details differ widely. There was an exchange about it a couple of months ago on another list which seemed to settle it. Here it is below (pardon me Darren). Best Keith To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Darren Hill [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 12:58:24 - Subject: RE: [vegoil-diesel] Rudolf Diesel Vegoil- an endless Misunderstanding! Stephan, I'd agree with you. I've read excerpts from some of Dr Diesels' work, that he published 1912 and 1913, where he states that it was the Otto Company that ran one of his engines on peanut oil at the request of the French government during the 1900 World Fair. He later conducted some trails where he determined fuel consumption and assessed operability. He also mentions similar successful experiments in St. Petersburg using castor oil and animal oils. Looks like it may have been the French that were first to use vegetable oils as a fuel in an internal combustion engine (almost certainly in a Diesel engine). Puts 'freedom' fries into a new light? Best Darren -Original Message- From: Stephan Helbig [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 02 March 2004 21:08 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [vegoil-diesel] Rudolf Diesel Vegoil- an endless Misunderstanding! Hello, The article starts with the usual reference to good old Rudolf whereas the author is also being trapped by the common misunderstanding that even Rudolf Diesel ran his first engine that was exhibited on the world exhibition 1900 in Paris on peanut oil. No it WASN'T him! I recently borrowed his book The Developement of the Diesel Engine -afaik the last one he published until he drowned himself in the Channel. All kinds of fuels that had been tested are described there, from coal dust over weird chemical mixtures that had been sent to Diesel by the industry to all sorts of crude oil and even tar-oil. Vegoil just got about 4 lines- remarking that it was the French Otto-Company (yes the Otto-engine!) that ran Diesels engine on peanut oil: The engine was built for crude oil and was used without any modification on vegoilit worked so well that only a few insiders took notice of this insignificant circumstance. (Diesel, Rudolf. 1913. Die Entstehung des Dieselmotors 1st reprint by Braun, Hans-Joachim (Ed). 1984. Moers: Steiger. Page 115.). Stephan Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Bio Diesel
Dave, Hempseed oil, that was a new one for me. LOL Read a lot about him, but not this. Can you give me your source. Maybe you also can tell me, what the diesel engine was designed to run on and it failed to do. Hakan At 22:30 13/05/2004, you wrote: I wonder how many of us realize that Rudolph Diesel, yes the guy who invented the diesel engine, actually utilized HEMPSEED OIL as his fuel source and that it wasn't until years later that petroleum was synthesized to make a diesel fuel? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] bio diesel
Theo, I've heard good things about Jatropha for oil production--although I know nothing about it. On the power loss front, I've seen numbers from 5 to 15% loss, and I've even seen numbers that claim a gain. My believe is that percentages this low cannot be detected in most driving situations. Where the loss shows up for me is on the tractor. If you are skidding logs all day, you will feel a 5% loss in power--you may have to shorten each log to have the requisite pulling power, and the effect can be measured in the project. But if you are just driving down the road, say obeying the speed limits, I don't think the loss in power is very detectable. On Apr 12, 2004, at 12:36 PM, theo wrote: We are very interested in producing bio diesel from jatropha. What is confusing to us is that one source will indicate that bio diesel is as efficient as normal diesel and another source will say that you have 15% loss. Also there are numerous other instances where one source will say one thing and another one will say something different. We live in South Africa in an area with a reasonably high rainfall. Verging on the sub tropical. There is lots of under utilised ground and more than adequate labour sources. The idea is to organise people into co-ops etc. Do you believe that jatropha is the way to go taking into consideration the above mentioned facts or should we be looking at something else? We would like to know what the correct answers are to the following: 1. Can you use oil pressed from jatropha directly as a fuel for a diesel engine? 2. Is there any power loss compared to normal diesel fuel and what if any? 3. What is the correct spacing to use when planting jatropha. 4. Is it more desirable to establish plantations using cuttings, seeds or seedlings? 5. Do you know of any reputable dealers in seed or cuttings? 5.b. It must be remembered that that the above seeds will have to transported via air freight. 6. What yields seeds/oil can conservatively be expected per hectare once the plants are established. 7. What ongoing inputs are needed and is it necessary to water and clean around the trees on a on going basis? 8. Are there any pests and diseases we should be prepared for? 9. How long does it take for the tree to reach full yield and for how long can you expect this to continue, conservatively? 10. How often does the tree bear nuts/fruit? 11. We are led to believe that you can grow the trees from cuttings quiet easily. Is this true and do the get the same yields etc. from cuttings? 12. Can the remains of the seeds be used for anything once we have pressed out the oil? 13. Are there any other uses for the by products. Will appreciate all inputs. Theo Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM - ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links Lyle Estill V.P., Stuff Piedmont Biofuels www.biofuels.coop Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Bio diesel
Steve, Done properly, you only need a lawn cutter size diesel engine for, http://energy.saving.nu/plugin/hvacpump.shtml generator engines at, http://www.hardydiesel.com/gen/generators.htm Hakan At 23:52 29/12/2003, you wrote: Hoping to build my own little bio diesel converter. So thanks guys for getting me thinking in what I believe is good for all of us. Have always wondered what they do with old WVO. Guess it just goes into the dump somewhere. Have been driving diesels for about thirty years.. currently have an 18 year old M/Benz 300 diesel. Yes I drive em till they drop.. LOL This one I plan on taking apart to use as my sole power source in my new home. And why not?? has a 3 ton a/c compressor hanging off the side of the engine. so my cooling is taken care of. With a 5 cylinder engine should put out enough heat to keep me toasty even on cold days just a matter of putting the heat into some kind of heat exchanger, and then into pex tubing in my floors. As far as making electricity.. have been dreaming on hanging a good quality alternator off the back end... something around 20-25 KW. Figure I should be able to charge a battery bank once a day in an hour or so. Think I will have more than enough power to run my woodworking tools. Jointers and big table saws do draw some serious amps. At one to three hours a day.. hum.. might even get another 18 years or more out of the engine.. LOL Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] bio diesel Quantity
HPLC (high performance liquid chromatography) if you have it would be more appropriate for your needs than GC. mohamed hassan wrote: Dear all I am interested in quantifying the rate at which FAME form at in the reaction to develop a kinetics model. There are severer problems in using a GC machine as this will lead to the destruction of the column that cost a lot of money due to the mono, di, and tri glaciered being present in the sample and as they have higher melting points that that of FAME they will remain in the column and if you up the temp to deal with mono di and tri glycerols then the FAME will thermally do compose. Is there any other method to do this so I can take samples every 2 min and analyse its components? Many thanks __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- -- Bob Allen, Professor of Chemistryhttp://ozarker.org/bob --- Some scientists claim that Hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than Hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe. - Frank Zappa --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] bio diesel Quantity
Dear all I am interested in quantifying the rate at which FAME form at in the reaction to develop a kinetics model. There are severer problems in using a GC machine as this will lead to the destruction of the column that cost a lot of money due to the mono, di, and tri glaciered being present in the sample and as they have higher melting points that that of FAME they will remain in the column and if you up the temp to deal with mono di and tri glycerols then the FAME will thermally do compose. Is there any other method to do this so I can take samples every 2 min and analyse its components? Many thanks You might find this interesting: Kinetics of Palm Oil Transesterification in a Batch Reactor, by D. Darnoko and Munir Cheryan, University of Illinois, Department of Food Science and Human Nutrition, Agricultural Bioprocess Laboratory, Journal of the American Oil Chemists' Society (JAOCS) Vol. 77, No. 12 (2000) --What happens during the biodiesel process reaction. Acrobat file, 72Kb. http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/transesterification%20paper.pdf Also this: Biodiesel quality testing: Scientists at USDA's Agricultural Research Service have adapted a sophisticated tool known as near-infrared spectroscopy -- NIR -- to help speed the development of biodiesel fuels made with vegetable oils. The standard for measuring biodiesel quality has been a complex analytical method called gas chromatography (GC). But GC is a complex piece of laboratory equipment, requiring technical expertise and at least an hour to perform. It also requires chemical reagents and solvents that need special handling and costly disposal. NIR is a safer and faster way to check the quality of biodiesel fuel, and no special training is needed. NIR Helps Turn Vegetable Oil into High-Quality Biofuel http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/NIR.html Rapid Monitoring of Transesterification and Assessing Biodiesel Fuel Quality by Near-infrared Spectroscopy Using a Fiber-Optic Probe http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/NIR1.html Monitoring a Progressing Transesterification Reaction by Fiber-Optic Near Infrared Spectroscopy with Correlation to 1H Nuclear Magnetic Resonance Spectroscopy http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/NIR2.html Best Keith Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Bio-diesel producers in China ?
Dear Keith Thanks for the data. I have found that by using virgin oil and 3.5g NaOH with 200cc methanol yields a pH of 11.20. I have repeated the experiments with good results. Sticking with a pH of 11.20, I've processed used oil with good results. If you say so. I'll stick with pH 8.8-9.2, and not more than 9.5. This approach has removed the need to titrate and is directed towards an industrial scale process. I've also mastered the two stage acid-base system, Oh? :-) the glycerol yield is very dense much like syrup cooled to say 5'C. Once all the water has been removed from the acid esterification stage, the trans-esterification process works extremely well. So you've succeeded in doing it, but that's a far cry from mastering it - nobody's mastered it yet, the full potential of Aleks's acid-base process is still being explored. It's certainly very adaptable - I'm quite astonished, and somewhat amused, by all the people who appear to be torturing it to death in various amazing ways, yet it not only remains unkilled but delivers the goods. And then they tend to say that's the *only* way to do it. (This after a whole bunch of folks spent about 18 months not daring to put their big toe in the water and yelling It doesn't work!) So you can say this, if you like: Once all the water has been removed from the acid esterification stage, the trans-esterification process works extremely well. ... but this would be at least as true: Don't bother to remove any water formed in the acid esterification stage, and the trans-esterification process will work extremely well. ... which is what most people do. Similarly: it *must* be titrated after the acid stage. No it doesn't. Same reason, plus this recent message from Todd: Before anyone tries to admonish the below statement, it should be noted that in an esterification (actually after), short of an intermediate step, it is virtually impossible to settle or separate all of the sulfuric acid from the veg oil and acquire an accurate titration relative to remaining FFAs prior to the transesterification step. Not only do oil and water mix, so do oil and solutions containing sulfuric acid. The residual acid, even after separation, will throw off a titration Todd Swearingen And so on. But, well, hey, if whatever you do works for you, well, isn't nature wonderful. On the other hand, if you follow the instructions nature will prove at least as wonderful and probably less troublesome. By the way, Aleks and I are also into torturing the method, with some most interesting results; also I get a LOT of feedback from users, so I do know what I'm saying. Keith Regards Mark Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Free shipping on all inkjet cartridge refill kit orders to US Canada. Low prices up to 80% off. We have your brand: HP, Epson, Lexmark more. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5510 http://us.click.yahoo.com/GHXcIA/n.WGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Bio-diesel producers in China ?
Dear Keith How many places in China are producing Bio-diesel? Dunno. Did you have an answer on why using a concentrate methoxide would not work ie aiming at a set pH? Nine days ago. I didn't say it would not work. http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?view=26692list=BIOFUEL Best Keith Mark Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/sO0ANB/LIdGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] bio diesel conditioner
Dear Brent If the pH is above 12 and regular diesel is around 7.5 to 8.5 say then I'd not touch it with a dirty stick ! Regards Mark Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Free shipping on all inkjet cartridge refill kit orders to US Canada. Low prices up to 80% off. We have your brand: HP, Epson, Lexmark more. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5510 http://us.click.yahoo.com/GHXcIA/n.WGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] bio diesel conditioner
Yes it is the product from Saskatchewan. Brent From: Neoteric Biofuels Inc [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] bio diesel conditioner Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 07:34:14 -0700 Is this the product from Saskatchewan? On Wednesday, July 23, 2003, at 07:12 AM, Brent wrote: I just got a look at what a local company is making and marketing as a canola based biodiesel feul conditioning product. They sell 1 litre for $15 and it is to be added to 1000 litres of diesel. I did some preliminary tests on it and found that the ph is off the scale, beyond 12. The guy usig it said it does make a difference in his truck. Any thoughts on this would be appreciated. Brent Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Breakthrough Natural Health Specialties at VitaminBoost.com $20 to $40 Oral Sprays for Fast Results and Greater Absorption. http://www.challengerone.com/t/l.asp?cid=2880 http://us.click.yahoo.com/3oMABA/muYGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM - ~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ _ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/sOykFB/k9VGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] bio diesel conditioner
They do reccomend using it at a .01% level. I can't see it doing any harm at that low of a level. I also don't see much of a benafit either. But seems people will buy it at $15/l rather than buy BD from me...go figure. Here is the url http://www.milliganbiotech.com/index.html Brent From: mark schofield [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] bio diesel conditioner Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 22:56:48 +0100 (BST) Dear Brent If the pH is above 12 and regular diesel is around 7.5 to 8.5 say then I'd not touch it with a dirty stick ! Regards Mark Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ _ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/sOykFB/k9VGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Bio-diesel /petrol blend
long term, it's unhealthy for the engine. major deposits and buildup. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ Human powered devices, equipment, and transport - http://24.190.106.81:8383/2000/humanpower.htm [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: t_watchornnz [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 3:40 AM Subject: [biofuel] Bio-diesel /petrol blend Has any one tried mixing biodiesel with petrol and running in a 4 stroke motor? I tried 60%petrol/40%biod mix in my 11hp ride on mower. Did not note any difference in power or responce. Just some smoke, but only when increasing revs and load. Only ran it for 10 minutes as wondering if I could be doing damage. Also I understand some are using biod as two stroke oil. Can anyone tell me what ratio the are mixing and the comparision ratio recomended the that motor with normal oil?? Thanks Trevor Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Stock for $4. No Minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/BgmYkB/VovDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Dog Teams, Snowshoes Tracks was Re: [biofuel] bio diesel in lanterns, Heaters
Kirk, There are many good reasons to not put too great or complete stock and faith in a snow-and-not-always-so-mobile. 1) An Artic Cat can't keep you warm in an emergency. 2) The footprint to weight ratio (with and without rider) of a snow-and-not-always-so-mobile is greater than a good pair of snowshoes or a tobagganed sled. 3) Quicksnow happens - frequently. 4) Dogs can work their way out of quicksnow, but usually have the sense not to plow headlong into it - unlike most trackers. I've seen single riders leave their track buried for days until they can return, or leave it until breakup. 5) A snowshoeless track rider almost has to swim in quicksnow and is frequently in worse shape than the track once he or she steps off. 6) You can't sleep in a snow-and-not-always-so-mobile. You can wrap yourself up in a sled. 7) You can't stuff game into the tank of a track and expect it to run. When fuel is exhausted, one prays that bringing the snowshoes was a forethought, not after. 8) The exhaust of dogs is considerably less poisonous than the exhaust of a tracks - most of the time. 9) The yammer of a track is annoying and explodes the peacefulness of the bush. The yammer of dogs is comforting. 10) Trackers, especially in packs, are more prone to run skiers off a trail or run over them than is dog team. (Multiple personal experiences.) 11) Dogs don't leak petrochemicals. 12) Generally, dogs don't break parts, leaving you stranded. 13) If one piston fails on a dog team, a half dozen remain. All that said, I would keep a track around almost as readily as a gen-set or chainsaw. But never would I set out for even an hour into back country on a track without three days of survival gear - snowshoes included. Todd Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 10:12 PM Subject: RE: [biofuel] bio diesel in lanterns, Heaters tracks. Nifty transportation when snow stops 4wheel drive vehicles with chains. -Original Message- From: Appal Energy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 6:54 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] bio diesel in lanterns, Heaters Artic Cat...Is that with or without the claws? Todd Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Get an Arctic Cat or 2 snowmobiles Kirk Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial http://us.click.yahoo.com/MDsVHB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: Dog Teams, Snowshoes Tracks was Re: [biofuel] bio diesel in lanterns, Heaters
I can relate to number 8. My daughter, to whom I am forwarding this, has a wolf. She lives in Alaska. Montana sounds a bit milder than your neighborhood. I know when snow is deeper than your hips and you don't have shoes you are mostly stuck. I remember stories of people in the California Sierras (Goldrush days) trapped by snow 18 feet deep. They died. Kirk -Original Message- From: Appal Energy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2001 9:28 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Dog Teams, Snowshoes Tracks was Re: [biofuel] bio diesel in lanterns, Heaters Kirk, There are many good reasons to not put too great or complete stock and faith in a snow-and-not-always-so-mobile. 1) An Artic Cat can't keep you warm in an emergency. 2) The footprint to weight ratio (with and without rider) of a snow-and-not-always-so-mobile is greater than a good pair of snowshoes or a tobagganed sled. 3) Quicksnow happens - frequently. 4) Dogs can work their way out of quicksnow, but usually have the sense not to plow headlong into it - unlike most trackers. I've seen single riders leave their track buried for days until they can return, or leave it until breakup. 5) A snowshoeless track rider almost has to swim in quicksnow and is frequently in worse shape than the track once he or she steps off. 6) You can't sleep in a snow-and-not-always-so-mobile. You can wrap yourself up in a sled. 7) You can't stuff game into the tank of a track and expect it to run. When fuel is exhausted, one prays that bringing the snowshoes was a forethought, not after. 8) The exhaust of dogs is considerably less poisonous than the exhaust of a tracks - most of the time. 9) The yammer of a track is annoying and explodes the peacefulness of the bush. The yammer of dogs is comforting. 10) Trackers, especially in packs, are more prone to run skiers off a trail or run over them than is dog team. (Multiple personal experiences.) 11) Dogs don't leak petrochemicals. 12) Generally, dogs don't break parts, leaving you stranded. 13) If one piston fails on a dog team, a half dozen remain. All that said, I would keep a track around almost as readily as a gen-set or chainsaw. But never would I set out for even an hour into back country on a track without three days of survival gear - snowshoes included. Todd Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 10:12 PM Subject: RE: [biofuel] bio diesel in lanterns, Heaters tracks. Nifty transportation when snow stops 4wheel drive vehicles with chains. -Original Message- From: Appal Energy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 6:54 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] bio diesel in lanterns, Heaters Artic Cat...Is that with or without the claws? Todd Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Get an Arctic Cat or 2 snowmobiles Kirk Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.276 / Virus Database: 145 - Release Date: 9/3/2001 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/47cccB/4m7CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: Dog Teams, Snowshoes Tracks was Re: [biofuel] bio diesel in lanterns, Heaters
When we were living in BC (up half way between Jasper and Prince George) two guys living near us died because they didn't bring snowshoes along on their snowmobile. It broke, they died. kirk wrote: I can relate to number 8. My daughter, to whom I am forwarding this, has a wolf. She lives in Alaska. Montana sounds a bit milder than your neighborhood. I know when snow is deeper than your hips and you don't have shoes you are mostly stuck. I remember stories of people in the California Sierras (Goldrush days) trapped by snow 18 feet deep. They died. Kirk -- Harmon Seaver, MLIS CyberShamanix Work 920-203-9633 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Home 920-233-5820 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.cybershamanix.com/resume.html Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/47cccB/4m7CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] bio diesel in lanterns, Heaters
we built a log house with 10 logs. One advantage over stick built is no air infiltration. r value is not the total issue Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.com Mirror Site http://webconx.dns2go.com/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] (212) 894-3704 x3154 - voicemail/fax We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children. - Original Message - From: kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 1:34 PM Subject: RE: [biofuel] bio diesel in lanterns, Heaters My thermal properties info says dry wood is R1 per inch. 8 inch wall R8. Kirk -Original Message- From: Harmon Seaver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 8:54 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] bio diesel in lanterns, Heaters Appal Energy wrote: I heard of a Catholic University in Pennsylvania some years back where an old building used to house chickens was converted into the 3 bedroom rectory for some of the nuns. The wall timbers were 8-10 thick. During the dead of winter, the ladies are able to stay snug and warm burning only one 18 long by 12 in diameter section of log each 24 hours. Do you mean the wall studs were 8-10 thick, and they then filled the walls with insulation? Or that they were solid timber walls? Having lived in two different log cabins with walls at least 10 thick, I know we burned one heck of a lot of wood in heater and cook stoves and still the dog's water dish would freeze solid on really cold nights. Wood is pretty poor insulation. But you're right on about trying to heat with wicked oil burners -- the smell gets pretty strong just with oil lighting, especially so if you aren't burning a good grade of kerosene. But it is amazing how little heat one needs in a small space. I used to do some work for an old guy who lived in a logger's shack. It was about 8'x6', and most of the area was taken up by his bed. You opened the door, then backed into the room and sat down on the bed, pulled the door shut behind you. It was insulated, and he heated with two kerosene lanterns, plus, if it got really cold, a propane hot plate. This was in far northern Minnesota, where it regularly got 25-30 below F, and often would go 2-3 weeks without ever getting above zero during the day. He lived that way for many, many years. Had plenty of money, just didn't see any need for anything more. Those catalytic kerosene heaters might be a better idea, but don't know how well they'd do with biodiesel. -- Harmon Seaver, MLIS CyberShamanix Work 920-203-9633 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Home 920-233-5820 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.cybershamanix.com/resume.html Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.276 / Virus Database: 145 - Release Date: 9/3/2001 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/47cccB/4m7CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] bio diesel in lanterns, Heaters
steve spence wrote: we built a log house with 10 logs. One advantage over stick built is no air infiltration. r value is not the total issue Depends on how the log construction is done -- both the ones we lived in were quite old, and there was a *lot* of air infiltration. Neither had a foundation either, so repairs to the chinking didn't last, seasonal ground shifts causing cracking and even falling out of the plaster chinking. My wife keeps looking at log cabin plans, I keep looking at straw bale. We stayed in one cabin out in BC -- also where our first cabin was -- that had logs around 3' thick. I've always wondered what it would have been like in Winter, but we would have been snowed in about 10-15 miles from the nearest plowed road, so I couldn't talk her into it. -- Harmon Seaver, MLIS CyberShamanix Work 920-203-9633 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Home 920-233-5820 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.cybershamanix.com/resume.html Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/47cccB/4m7CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] bio diesel in lanterns, Heaters
we had machined logs, double tongue groove. foam and caulk between logs, masonite splines in caulked groove on ends. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.com Mirror Site http://webconx.dns2go.com/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] (212) 894-3704 x3154 - voicemail/fax We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children. - Original Message - From: Harmon Seaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 3:07 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] bio diesel in lanterns, Heaters steve spence wrote: we built a log house with 10 logs. One advantage over stick built is no air infiltration. r value is not the total issue Depends on how the log construction is done -- both the ones we lived in were quite old, and there was a *lot* of air infiltration. Neither had a foundation either, so repairs to the chinking didn't last, seasonal ground shifts causing cracking and even falling out of the plaster chinking. My wife keeps looking at log cabin plans, I keep looking at straw bale. We stayed in one cabin out in BC -- also where our first cabin was -- that had logs around 3' thick. I've always wondered what it would have been like in Winter, but we would have been snowed in about 10-15 miles from the nearest plowed road, so I couldn't talk her into it. -- Harmon Seaver, MLIS CyberShamanix Work 920-203-9633 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Home 920-233-5820 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.cybershamanix.com/resume.html Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/47cccB/4m7CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] bio diesel in lanterns, Heaters
Yes, that's the major difference with newer log cabins. Our first one, in BC, had the tops and bottoms flattened with an adze, more or less, but only a couple of inches wide, IIRC. Ours in MN, which we lived in for a much longer time, had three sides squared with an adze, but that just doesn't really make for a very tight fit. steve spence wrote: we had machined logs, double tongue groove. foam and caulk between logs, masonite splines in caulked groove on ends. -- Harmon Seaver, MLIS CyberShamanix Work 920-203-9633 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Home 920-233-5820 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.cybershamanix.com/resume.html Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/47cccB/4m7CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] bio diesel in lanterns, Heaters
Nope, have a pathological hatred of snowmobiles. We're strictly dogteam folks, and skis, of course. Betting your life on a snowmobile when you are seriously isolated is an extremely bad idea. Especially in deep snow areas. I've seen a number of times when the snowmobiles couldn't go at all, and I could -- of course, I had to walk in front of the team with snowshoes to break trail, but at least we could go. The snowmobiles could go about 10', then had to be dug out. Dog teams burn real basic biofuels too -- deer and fish and rabbits. kirk wrote: Get an Arctic Cat or 2 snowmobiles Kirk -- Harmon Seaver, MLIS CyberShamanix Work 920-203-9633 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Home 920-233-5820 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.cybershamanix.com/resume.html Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/47cccB/4m7CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] bio diesel in lanterns, Heaters
Artic Cat...Is that with or without the claws? Todd Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Get an Arctic Cat or 2 snowmobiles Kirk -Original Message- From: Harmon Seaver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 1:07 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] bio diesel in lanterns, Heaters steve spence wrote: we built a log house with 10 logs. One advantage over stick built is no air infiltration. r value is not the total issue Depends on how the log construction is done -- both the ones we lived in were quite old, and there was a *lot* of air infiltration. Neither had a foundation either, so repairs to the chinking didn't last, seasonal ground shifts causing cracking and even falling out of the plaster chinking. My wife keeps looking at log cabin plans, I keep looking at straw bale. We stayed in one cabin out in BC -- also where our first cabin was -- that had logs around 3' thick. I've always wondered what it would have been like in Winter, but we would have been snowed in about 10-15 miles from the nearest plowed road, so I couldn't talk her into it. -- Harmon Seaver, MLIS CyberShamanix Work 920-203-9633 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Home 920-233-5820 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.cybershamanix.com/resume.html Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.276 / Virus Database: 145 - Release Date: 9/3/2001 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial http://us.click.yahoo.com/MDsVHB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] bio diesel in lanterns, Heaters
Must have been some awful light powder to stick a snowmobile. How about the cat? Neighbor borrowed one from work a while back. Seemed to go anywhere. Phone co uses them to pull maintenance on remote towers-- long distance repeaters and cell phone sites. -Original Message- From: Harmon Seaver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 2:36 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] bio diesel in lanterns, Heaters Nope, have a pathological hatred of snowmobiles. We're strictly dogteam folks, and skis, of course. Betting your life on a snowmobile when you are seriously isolated is an extremely bad idea. Especially in deep snow areas. I've seen a number of times when the snowmobiles couldn't go at all, and I could -- of course, I had to walk in front of the team with snowshoes to break trail, but at least we could go. The snowmobiles could go about 10', then had to be dug out. Dog teams burn real basic biofuels too -- deer and fish and rabbits. kirk wrote: Get an Arctic Cat or 2 snowmobiles Kirk -- Harmon Seaver, MLIS CyberShamanix Work 920-203-9633 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Home 920-233-5820 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.cybershamanix.com/resume.html Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.276 / Virus Database: 145 - Release Date: 9/3/2001 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/47cccB/4m7CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] bio diesel in lanterns, Heaters
Jerry, Sorry for untimely reply. Don't see how a the few btus generated from a burning wick would ever heat much more than a room the size of a well insulated 10 person tent. Besides, with but a few people in a well insulated tent, you probably wouldn't need anymore than body heat as long as they were continually well fed. I would concern myself with emissions from the candle style oil lamps when using many at the same time. I believe you would be better off with just weatherizing the old sod hut rather well and installing a small Franklin stove. I heard of a Catholic University in Pennsylvania some years back where an old building used to house chickens was converted into the 3 bedroom rectory for some of the nuns. The wall timbers were 8-10 thick. During the dead of winter, the ladies are able to stay snug and warm burning only one 18 long by 12 in diameter section of log each 24 hours. I think I would go that route long before burning several hundred oil lamps. Black lung revisited, don't cha know. Todd Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: jerry dycus [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2001 12:17 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] bio diesel in lanterns, Heaters Hi Todd and All, Needing a heater for this winter would a multi-wick floating on WVO with a 1/2 inch rise work? Kind of like the VO floating candles but with larger wicks. Thanks, jerry dycus --- Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tom, We've tried blends of biodiesel with distillate lamp oil and found the result to be the same as with straight biodiesel - insufficient wicking properties. Have not tried any other dilutants as of yet. Biodiesel will dissolve in large amounts of methanol. It might do the same with ethanol. It would certainly alter the combustion and safety properties to somewhere between a Bunsen burner and an oil lamp. I don't know if ethanol's hydrophilic properties would begin to pose problems with a lamp left idle for long periods or not. Todd Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Tom Kissick [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2001 2:09 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] bio diesel in lanterns Thyanks Todd I thought as much.Is there a process to bring down the specific gravity for biodiesel.For example cutting it with ethanol perhaps. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger http://im.yahoo.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/47cccB/4m7CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] bio diesel in lanterns
Thyanks Todd I thought as much.Is there a process to bring down the specific gravity for biodiesel.For example cutting it with ethanol perhaps. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial http://us.click.yahoo.com/MDsVHB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] bio diesel in lanterns
I have tried my first batch of biodiesel in a flat wick style lamp but as Todd guessed it just burnt the wick but it did not go out just wasnt very bright. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- The Nissan Sentra Everything but compact http://NissanDriven.com http://us.click.yahoo.com/3vsIKC/txlCAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] bio diesel in lanterns
Tom Ed, Bio-D has too high a specific gravity to wick any farther than perhaps 1.5 in height. When the fuel level reaches this distance below the combustion point, the wick begins to burn and the lamp extinguishes itself. This is why I was asking about Argand lamps last week. They were designed to burn straight veg oils while producing 23+ candle power. They use a circular wick and have a brass draught tube running through it. The tube provides both greater oxygen to the wick and preheats the fuel. The pre-heat aspect is what permits the use of more viscous fuels. They haven't been produced in over a century, as best as I can tell. The Aladdin is a later generation of the Argand design, but uses petroleum fuels and requires a mantle. Based solely on candle power, the veg oil Argand would appear to provide a higher caliber of light over the traditional flat wicked kerosene lamps found in most homes today. Odd that a design patented in 1784 using biofuel would yield superior light to the petroleum fueled design that has been the primary domestic lamp of choice for nearly 140 years. As for contemporary lamps that burn biodiesel, Keith pointed out the Petromax lamp. They are multi-fuel, pump and mantle lamps. So, I reckon' that until someone re-invents Argand's lamp, it would look like those who wish to burn biofuels are kinda' stuck with single wicked terra cotta reproduction oil lamps from 300 BC to 400 AD Rome, Greece, Egypt and the like, or a Petromax. Nothing like consumer choice, eh? Todd Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Edward Beggs [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2001 12:05 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] bio diesel in lanterns Tom, what were the specific problems encountered? Ed B. www.biofuels.ca - Original Message - From: Tom Kissick [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2001 8:05 PM Subject: [biofuel] bio diesel in lanterns I have tried biodiesel in a wick type lantern with less than good results if anyone has some suggestions please let me know.i am assuming it is because the flash point is to high and or the viscosity is to high. thanks [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial http://us.click.yahoo.com/MDsVHB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] bio diesel in lanterns
Tom, We've tried blends of biodiesel with distillate lamp oil and found the result to be the same as with straight biodiesel - insufficient wicking properties. Have not tried any other dilutants as of yet. Biodiesel will dissolve in large amounts of methanol. It might do the same with ethanol. It would certainly alter the combustion and safety properties to somewhere between a Bunsen burner and an oil lamp. I don't know if ethanol's hydrophilic properties would begin to pose problems with a lamp left idle for long periods or not. Todd Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Tom Kissick [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2001 2:09 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] bio diesel in lanterns Thyanks Todd I thought as much.Is there a process to bring down the specific gravity for biodiesel.For example cutting it with ethanol perhaps. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial http://us.click.yahoo.com/MDsVHB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] bio diesel in lanterns
I would think you should be able to find a Rayo lamp in an antique store fairly easily if you want to try the Argand style lamp. It has the circular wick and the hollow tube running down thru the fuel bowl, preheating the fuel and providing more oxygen. Many of them have been converted to electric, since with the hollow tube running down the center, you don't have to drill any holes for the wire, but conversely they can be easily converted back. Appal Energy wrote: Tom Ed, Bio-D has too high a specific gravity to wick any farther than perhaps 1.5 in height. When the fuel level reaches this distance below the combustion point, the wick begins to burn and the lamp extinguishes itself. This is why I was asking about Argand lamps last week. They were designed to burn straight veg oils while producing 23+ candle power. They use a circular wick and have a brass draught tube running through it. The tube provides both greater oxygen to the wick and preheats the fuel. The pre-heat aspect is what permits the use of more viscous fuels. They haven't been produced in over a century, as best as I can tell. The Aladdin is a later generation of the Argand design, but uses petroleum fuels and requires a mantle. Based solely on candle power, the veg oil Argand would appear to provide a higher caliber of light over the traditional flat wicked kerosene lamps found in most homes today. Odd that a design patented in 1784 using biofuel would yield superior light to the petroleum fueled design that has been the primary domestic lamp of choice for nearly 140 years. As for contemporary lamps that burn biodiesel, Keith pointed out the Petromax lamp. They are multi-fuel, pump and mantle lamps. So, I reckon' that until someone re-invents Argand's lamp, it would look like those who wish to burn biofuels are kinda' stuck with single wicked terra cotta reproduction oil lamps from 300 BC to 400 AD Rome, Greece, Egypt and the like, or a Petromax. -- Harmon Seaver, MLIS CyberShamanix Work 920-203-9633 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Home 920-233-5820 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.cybershamanix.com/resume.html Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial http://us.click.yahoo.com/MDsVHB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] bio diesel in lanterns, Heaters
Hi Todd and All, Needing a heater for this winter would a multi-wick floating on WVO with a 1/2 inch rise work? Kind of like the VO floating candles but with larger wicks. Thanks, jerry dycus --- Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tom, We've tried blends of biodiesel with distillate lamp oil and found the result to be the same as with straight biodiesel - insufficient wicking properties. Have not tried any other dilutants as of yet. Biodiesel will dissolve in large amounts of methanol. It might do the same with ethanol. It would certainly alter the combustion and safety properties to somewhere between a Bunsen burner and an oil lamp. I don't know if ethanol's hydrophilic properties would begin to pose problems with a lamp left idle for long periods or not. Todd Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Tom Kissick [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2001 2:09 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] bio diesel in lanterns Thyanks Todd I thought as much.Is there a process to bring down the specific gravity for biodiesel.For example cutting it with ethanol perhaps. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger http://im.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/47cccB/4m7CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] bio diesel in lanterns
Tom, what were the specific problems encountered? Ed B. www.biofuels.ca - Original Message - From: Tom Kissick [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2001 8:05 PM Subject: [biofuel] bio diesel in lanterns I have tried biodiesel in a wick type lantern with less than good results if anyone has some suggestions please let me know.i am assuming it is because the flash point is to high and or the viscosity is to high. thanks [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- The Nissan Sentra Everything but compact http://NissanDriven.com http://us.click.yahoo.com/3vsIKC/txlCAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] BIO DIESEL FROM RICE BRAN OIL AND CASTOR OIL
Dear friends We in India has a lot of Rice bran oil as we are the second largest producers of rice in the world . Some of this oil is non-edible as it has a very large amount of free fatty acids ( TAN of 50 ) Therefore, for making esters the alkali process is out. Any suggestions ? The Castor oil is rich in 12 hydroxy acids Any one having experience in these sources please do suggest. Thanks Dr D.K. Tuli http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_aleksnew.html Foolproof biodiesel process: Free fatty acid to ester conversion Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Bio Diesel from coconut oil
- Original Message - From: Hanns B. Wetzel [EMAIL PROTECTED] Here is a process that produced bio diesel which was carried out in the Philippines as a prototype in 1991. Great post Hanns. Good description with plenty of useful information. Did the process get beyond the prototype stage? Regards Paul. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Bio Diesel from coconut oil
Paul, As far as I know, it did not. Hanns -Original Message- From: Paul Gobert [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, 9 June 2001 11:20 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Bio Diesel from coconut oil - Original Message - From: Hanns B. Wetzel [EMAIL PROTECTED] Here is a process that produced bio diesel which was carried out in the Philippines as a prototype in 1991. Great post Hanns. Good description with plenty of useful information. Did the process get beyond the prototype stage? Regards Paul. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Bio Diesel from coconut oil
Todd, [snip] The belt driven expeller requires 14 horse power to crush 3 tons of copra per day into a fine quality coconut oil with an acid number of 5 or less for a yield of .55 ton of coconut oil per ton of copra plus .365 ton of copra meal. Seems to be missing ~0.08 tons after pressing. Can't be the 1-2% moisture content. 80Kg out of 2 tons, maybe it just gets wasted? [snip] About 1100 Kg of coconut oil is pumped into an elevated horizontal tank mounted on a furnace directly fired with charcoal. The oil is heated by incandescent charcoal combusting in a roll-away cart. After one hour, when the oil has been heated to 65 degrees C, the cart is pulled away to a safe distance. Heck of an inovative temperature control and fueling system. Yes! But if they mostly buy the copra, where does the charcoal come from. If it also has to be bought that would considerable add to the expense. On the other hand if all (or most) of the copra (2 ton/day) is produced on the plantation, then one hot air dryer would not be enough unless it is a very large one. After agitating for 1 hour, the mixture is neutralized with about 18 Kg of 35% HCL plus about 60 liters of water to dilute the glycerine and facilitate a sharp separation from the methyl ester layer [snip] Don't suppose they state what is done with the salt/glycerin solution? Unfortunately, it cannot be composted and applied to the land, as the salinity is so destructive. If glycerin distilling were to be conducted, the residual would be NaCl. (Great if this were in Minnesota and winter.) Apparently the company which supplied the methanol, HCL and caustic soda took the glycerol solution in exchange and refined it to glycerine for export. There apparently is a good international market for that. All in all, they seem to have an innovative system. Are they still up and running? As far as I know at this stage. No Todd Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Bio diesel problem
Hard tallow esters, caused by cooling below about 18 deg C Skim off and add to next batch of RVO - don't include in titration calculation. Terry Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-~ eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for more details http://us.click.yahoo.com/kWP7PD/pYNCAA/4ihDAA/FZTVlB/TM -_- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
