Re: [biofuels-biz] Re: californians 50%
Hi MM, I will give you something else to chew on, that is closely related to your HVAC opinion and weather relations. Sweden have a climate that is comparable to Northern US and Southern Canada. The use compared to US and Canada are as follows. The average Swede use 25% energy of the average Canadian. 33% of the average American and 50% of the average Californian. The use of types of building materials are similar, but the construction methods, dimensioning, equipment control, comfort criteria and use of emission/storage are very different. By using this as a yard stick, it certainly confirms the conservation efforts by the Californian. It also point to a possibility to a possible and considerable reduction of the peak demand problem that the Californians have. Hakan At 08:06 AM 1/27/2003 -0800, you wrote: On Mon, 27 Jan 2003 07:20:36 +0100, you wrote: MM, Thank you, I corrected the percentage. I used the number that somebody said, but did not check it sufficiently. You are right and it fit also better with the other data, now when I checked it. Maybe my population number included Canada as North America, same mistake as when many talks about Europe. Hakan I had the chance to look at some but not all of your research. My initial reaction is to somewhat stand by my view that David has a point. In a way, I'm saying, you're both part-right. What I mean is, if Californians use, per person, a certain percentage less energy than other Americans, then my initial guess would be that this is partly attributable to not having to burn copious amounts of Home Heating Fuel (Oil or Natural Gas) and partly attributable to other factors, including conservation. So, I don't think your thesis is invalidated (that Californians seem somewhat more Conservation-minded than some other Americans, even if there's much they could still improve), just that I'm inclined to hold on the idea that there could be other factors. I did see the chart comparing to other states and this chart did seem to validate the Conservation thesis. I was surprised to see New York so close to California for example (they certainly have significant heating needs) and Texas being totally out of control is also consistent with the thesis of trying to get at which states are not Conservation-oriented. But I'd have to spend more time chewing things over to sort of what other factors might be going on. For example, clearly there are some states which are very industry-oriented and so have higher energy needs in that respect. It doesn't make them non-Conserving, but they need the energy for additional matters. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] RE: californians 50%
You know, while it may be true that Californians have practiced and studied some good conservation principles, I also think David has a point. Back when I was taking some hard look at America's overall energy usage, home heating oil is a very significant part of that usage. Sometimes the statisticians will break out home heating oil from other statistics because it can tend to skew our understanding. Home heating oil is, I think, not as important in some parts of the country. We do have heating and cooling needs here in San Diego, but it is somewhat a matter of degree and location. By the ocean, it is cooler and one doesn't need A/C as much. Further inland A/C could be more important, it can get *very* hot in some areas, but it is dry here and not like some of the more humid extreme-heat situations. As to energy needs during cool periods, it is important to have heat, but obviously not as important nor as demanding on the energy supply as in a climate that often goes well below freezing, such as one finds in other parts of the country. On Fri, 24 Jan 2003 01:16:48 +0100, you wrote: Hi David, The fact is that California during many years have a very active program for saving of energy. This is the reason, because if you look at other states in US, with similar climate conditions, they are at average or above average. Of course, a lot is AC in those states, very much offices. If you look at statistics over the years and growth, you can clearly see that it is man made savings. California is the state that is and has been the most active state in US, when it comes to energy conservation and pollution. We had many exchange students and visiting professors from California in the Swedish universities. Still the Californian use twice as much energy as the average Swede. But they are best in the US after Hawaii, which is definitely determined by the climate. Hakan At 06:55 PM 1/23/2003 -0500, you wrote: Re: Californians 50% I don't want to step on a good thing, but is it 50% because of the climate, or 50% because Californians are different or more energy conscious? My gfather lives in San Diego. He almost never has to turn the heat on, ever. He only uses AC on the hotest of days.. perhaps 5 days if that. Contrast that to my coast, and its cold cold cold in the winter.. and hot and muggy in the summer where you might leave the AC in the car on while you tkae a shower and get ready for your date..lest you get all sweaty before you AC can cool your car. not everyone owns a garage So i dont really like the 50% one.. on the other hand.. THIS ONE http://energy.saving.nu/biofuel-sticker-3.jpg is absolutely hilarious. and gives you the secondary point of committing suicide on your dependence on the pump. funny.. :) Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] RE: californians 50%
Hi MM, Look at, http://california.energy.saving.nu/ especially, http://energy.saving.nu/california/victim.shtml and http://peakdemand.energy.saving.nu/ http://fastfixes.energy.saving.nu/ and you will find some data. It is quite interesting and you can see what I was pointing out earlier. Hakan At 11:49 PM 1/25/2003 -0800, you wrote: You know, while it may be true that Californians have practiced and studied some good conservation principles, I also think David has a point. Back when I was taking some hard look at America's overall energy usage, home heating oil is a very significant part of that usage. Sometimes the statisticians will break out home heating oil from other statistics because it can tend to skew our understanding. Home heating oil is, I think, not as important in some parts of the country. We do have heating and cooling needs here in San Diego, but it is somewhat a matter of degree and location. By the ocean, it is cooler and one doesn't need A/C as much. Further inland A/C could be more important, it can get *very* hot in some areas, but it is dry here and not like some of the more humid extreme-heat situations. As to energy needs during cool periods, it is important to have heat, but obviously not as important nor as demanding on the energy supply as in a climate that often goes well below freezing, such as one finds in other parts of the country. On Fri, 24 Jan 2003 01:16:48 +0100, you wrote: Hi David, The fact is that California during many years have a very active program for saving of energy. This is the reason, because if you look at other states in US, with similar climate conditions, they are at average or above average. Of course, a lot is AC in those states, very much offices. If you look at statistics over the years and growth, you can clearly see that it is man made savings. California is the state that is and has been the most active state in US, when it comes to energy conservation and pollution. We had many exchange students and visiting professors from California in the Swedish universities. Still the Californian use twice as much energy as the average Swede. But they are best in the US after Hawaii, which is definitely determined by the climate. Hakan At 06:55 PM 1/23/2003 -0500, you wrote: Re: Californians 50% I don't want to step on a good thing, but is it 50% because of the climate, or 50% because Californians are different or more energy conscious? My gfather lives in San Diego. He almost never has to turn the heat on, ever. He only uses AC on the hotest of days.. perhaps 5 days if that. Contrast that to my coast, and its cold cold cold in the winter.. and hot and muggy in the summer where you might leave the AC in the car on while you tkae a shower and get ready for your date..lest you get all sweaty before you AC can cool your car. not everyone owns a garage So i dont really like the 50% one.. on the other hand.. THIS ONE http://energy.saving.nu/biofuel-sticker-3.jpg is absolutely hilarious. and gives you the secondary point of committing suicide on your dependence on the pump. funny.. :) Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: [biofuels-biz] RE: californians 50%
Hi MM, Look at, http://california.energy.saving.nu/ especially, http://energy.saving.nu/california/victim.shtml and http://peakdemand.energy.saving.nu/ http://fastfixes.energy.saving.nu/ and you will find some data. It is quite interesting and you can see what I was pointing out earlier. Hakan At 11:49 PM 1/25/2003 -0800, you wrote: You know, while it may be true that Californians have practiced and studied some good conservation principles, I also think David has a point. Back when I was taking some hard look at America's overall energy usage, home heating oil is a very significant part of that usage. Sometimes the statisticians will break out home heating oil from other statistics because it can tend to skew our understanding. Home heating oil is, I think, not as important in some parts of the country. We do have heating and cooling needs here in San Diego, but it is somewhat a matter of degree and location. By the ocean, it is cooler and one doesn't need A/C as much. Further inland A/C could be more important, it can get *very* hot in some areas, but it is dry here and not like some of the more humid extreme-heat situations. As to energy needs during cool periods, it is important to have heat, but obviously not as important nor as demanding on the energy supply as in a climate that often goes well below freezing, such as one finds in other parts of the country. On Fri, 24 Jan 2003 01:16:48 +0100, you wrote: Hi David, The fact is that California during many years have a very active program for saving of energy. This is the reason, because if you look at other states in US, with similar climate conditions, they are at average or above average. Of course, a lot is AC in those states, very much offices. If you look at statistics over the years and growth, you can clearly see that it is man made savings. California is the state that is and has been the most active state in US, when it comes to energy conservation and pollution. We had many exchange students and visiting professors from California in the Swedish universities. Still the Californian use twice as much energy as the average Swede. But they are best in the US after Hawaii, which is definitely determined by the climate. Hakan At 06:55 PM 1/23/2003 -0500, you wrote: Re: Californians 50% I don't want to step on a good thing, but is it 50% because of the climate, or 50% because Californians are different or more energy conscious? My gfather lives in San Diego. He almost never has to turn the heat on, ever. He only uses AC on the hotest of days.. perhaps 5 days if that. Contrast that to my coast, and its cold cold cold in the winter.. and hot and muggy in the summer where you might leave the AC in the car on while you tkae a shower and get ready for your date..lest you get all sweaty before you AC can cool your car. not everyone owns a garage So i dont really like the 50% one.. on the other hand.. THIS ONE http://energy.saving.nu/biofuel-sticker-3.jpg is absolutely hilarious. and gives you the secondary point of committing suicide on your dependence on the pump. funny.. :) Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuels-biz] RE: californians 50%
Hi David, The fact is that California during many years have a very active program for saving of energy. This is the reason, because if you look at other states in US, with similar climate conditions, they are at average or above average. Of course, a lot is AC in those states, very much offices. If you look at statistics over the years and growth, you can clearly see that it is man made savings. California is the state that is and has been the most active state in US, when it comes to energy conservation and pollution. We had many exchange students and visiting professors from California in the Swedish universities. Still the Californian use twice as much energy as the average Swede. But they are best in the US after Hawaii, which is definitely determined by the climate. Hakan At 06:55 PM 1/23/2003 -0500, you wrote: Re: Californians 50% I don't want to step on a good thing, but is it 50% because of the climate, or 50% because Californians are different or more energy conscious? My gfather lives in San Diego. He almost never has to turn the heat on, ever. He only uses AC on the hotest of days.. perhaps 5 days if that. Contrast that to my coast, and its cold cold cold in the winter.. and hot and muggy in the summer where you might leave the AC in the car on while you tkae a shower and get ready for your date..lest you get all sweaty before you AC can cool your car. not everyone owns a garage So i dont really like the 50% one.. on the other hand.. THIS ONE http://energy.saving.nu/biofuel-sticker-3.jpg is absolutely hilarious. and gives you the secondary point of committing suicide on your dependence on the pump. funny.. :) Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
