Re: [biofuels-biz] Re: californians 50%

2003-01-28 Thread Hakan Falk


Hi MM,

I will give you something else to chew on, that is closely
related to your HVAC opinion and weather relations.

Sweden have a climate that is comparable to Northern US
and Southern Canada. The use compared to US and Canada
are as follows.

The average Swede use 25% energy of the average Canadian.
33% of the average American and 50% of the average
Californian.

The use of types of building materials are similar, but the
construction methods, dimensioning, equipment control,
comfort criteria and use of emission/storage are very different.

By using this as a yard stick, it certainly confirms the
conservation efforts by the Californian. It also point to a
possibility to a possible and considerable reduction of the peak
demand problem that the Californians have.

Hakan


At 08:06 AM 1/27/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>On Mon, 27 Jan 2003 07:20:36 +0100, you wrote:
>
> >
> >MM,
> >Thank you, I corrected the percentage. I used the number
> >that somebody said, but did not check it sufficiently. You
> >are right and it fit also better with the other data, now when
> >I checked it. Maybe my population number included Canada
> >as North America, same mistake as when many talks about
> >Europe.
> >Hakan
>
>I had the chance to look at some but not all of your research.  My
>initial reaction is to somewhat stand by my view that David has a
>point.  In a way, I'm saying, you're both part-right.
>
>What I mean is, if Californians use, per person, a certain percentage
>less energy than other Americans, then my initial guess would be that
>this is partly attributable to not having to burn copious amounts of
>Home Heating Fuel (Oil or Natural Gas) and partly attributable to
>other factors, including conservation.  So, I don't think your thesis
>is invalidated (that Californians seem somewhat more
>Conservation-minded than some other Americans, even if there's much
>they could still improve), just that I'm inclined to hold on the idea
>that there could be other factors.
>
>I did see the chart comparing to other states and this chart did seem
>to validate the Conservation thesis.  I was surprised to see New York
>so close to California for example (they certainly have significant
>heating needs) and Texas being totally out of control is also
>consistent with the thesis of trying to get at which states are not
>Conservation-oriented.  But I'd have to spend more time chewing things
>over to sort of what other factors might be going on.  For example,
>clearly there are some states which are very industry-oriented and so
>have higher energy needs in that respect.  It doesn't make them
>non-Conserving, but they need the energy for additional matters.



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Re: [biofuels-biz] Re: californians 50%

2003-01-26 Thread Hakan Falk


MM,

Thank you, I corrected the percentage. I used the number
that somebody said, but did not check it sufficiently. You
are right and it fit also better with the other data, now when
I checked it. Maybe my population number included Canada
as North America, same mistake as when many talks about
Europe.

Hakan

At 04:47 PM 1/26/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>On Sun, 26 Jan 2003 09:14:02 +0100, you wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >Hi MM,
> >
> >Look at,
> >
> >http://california.energy.saving.nu/
>
>California has about 12% of U.S. population (33 million out of 272
>million as of 1999 Almanac Figures), not the "nearly 20%" that you
>have in your statement at that top.  Even accounting for statistical
>messups associated with illegal immigration making the numbers hard to
>figure out, I don't think it would come out to nearly 20% (maybe I'm
>wrong).  Your other research that I've glanced at looks very in-depth,
>so I'm sure you had attention to accuracy.
>
>I'd have to give some thought as to the issues more in-depth, but it's
>clear that you've given a lot of attention to the matter.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >especially,
> >
> >http://energy.saving.nu/california/victim.shtml
> >
> >and
> >
> >http://peakdemand.energy.saving.nu/
> >http://fastfixes.energy.saving.nu/
> >
> >and you will find some data.
> >
> >It is quite interesting and you can see what I was pointing out
> >earlier.
> >
> >Hakan
> >
> >
> >At 11:49 PM 1/25/2003 -0800, you wrote:
> >>You know, while it may be true that Californians have practiced and
> >>studied some good conservation principles, I also think David has a
> >>point.  Back when I was taking some hard look at America's overall
> >>energy usage, home heating oil is a very significant part of that
> >>usage.  Sometimes the statisticians will break out home heating oil
> >>from other statistics because it can tend to skew our understanding.
> >>
> >>Home heating oil is, I think, not as important in some parts of the
> >>country.
> >>
> >>We do have heating and cooling needs here in San Diego, but it is
> >>somewhat a matter of degree and location.  By the ocean, it is cooler
> >>and one doesn't need A/C as much.  Further inland A/C could be more
> >>important, it can get *very* hot in some areas, but it is dry here and
> >>not like some of the more humid extreme-heat situations.
> >>
> >>As to energy needs during cool periods, it is important to have heat,
> >>but obviously not as important nor as demanding on the energy supply
> >>as in a climate that often goes well below freezing, such as one finds
> >>in other parts of the country.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>On Fri, 24 Jan 2003 01:16:48 +0100, you wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >Hi David,
> >> >
> >> >The fact is that California during many years have a very active
> >> >program for saving of energy. This is the reason, because if you
> >> >look at other states in US, with similar climate conditions, they
> >> >are at average or above average. Of course, a lot is AC in those
> >> >states, very much offices. If you look at statistics over the years
> >> >and growth, you can clearly see that it is man made savings.
> >> >
> >> >California is the state that is and has been the most active state
> >> >in US, when it comes to energy conservation and pollution. We
> >> >had many exchange students and visiting professors from California
> >> >in the Swedish universities.
> >> >
> >> >Still the Californian use twice as much energy as the average Swede.
> >> >But they are best in the US after Hawaii, which is definitely determined
> >> >by the climate.
> >> >
> >> >Hakan
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >At 06:55 PM 1/23/2003 -0500, you wrote:
> >> >>Re:
> >> >>Californians 50%
> >> >>
> >> >>I don't want to step on a good thing, but is it 50% because of the 
> climate,
> >> >>or 50% because Californians are
> >> >>different or more energy conscious?
> >> >>
> >> >>My gfather lives in San Diego.  He almost never has to turn the heat on,
> >> >>ever.  He only uses AC on the
> >> >>hotest of days.. perhaps 5 days if that.
> >> >>
> >> >>Contrast that to my coast, and its cold cold cold in the winter.. 
> and hot
> >> >>and muggy in the summer where you
> >> >>might leave the AC in the car on while you tkae a shower and get 
> ready for
> >> >>your date..lest you get all sweaty before you AC can
> >> >>cool your car.  
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>So i dont really like the 50% one..
> >> >>
> >> >>on the other hand.. THIS ONE
> >> >>http://energy.saving.nu/biofuel-sticker-3.jpg
> >> >>
> >> >>is absolutely hilarious.   and gives you the secondary point of 
> committing
> >> >>suicide on your dependence on the pump.
> >> >>
> >> >>funny..  :)
> >> >
> >> >



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http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
Biofuel at WebConX
http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm
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Re: [biofuels-biz] RE: californians 50%

2003-01-26 Thread Hakan Falk



Hi MM,

Look at,

http://california.energy.saving.nu/

especially,

http://energy.saving.nu/california/victim.shtml

and

http://peakdemand.energy.saving.nu/
http://fastfixes.energy.saving.nu/

and you will find some data.

It is quite interesting and you can see what I was pointing out
earlier.

Hakan


At 11:49 PM 1/25/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>You know, while it may be true that Californians have practiced and
>studied some good conservation principles, I also think David has a
>point.  Back when I was taking some hard look at America's overall
>energy usage, home heating oil is a very significant part of that
>usage.  Sometimes the statisticians will break out home heating oil
>from other statistics because it can tend to skew our understanding.
>
>Home heating oil is, I think, not as important in some parts of the
>country.
>
>We do have heating and cooling needs here in San Diego, but it is
>somewhat a matter of degree and location.  By the ocean, it is cooler
>and one doesn't need A/C as much.  Further inland A/C could be more
>important, it can get *very* hot in some areas, but it is dry here and
>not like some of the more humid extreme-heat situations.
>
>As to energy needs during cool periods, it is important to have heat,
>but obviously not as important nor as demanding on the energy supply
>as in a climate that often goes well below freezing, such as one finds
>in other parts of the country.
>
>
>
>On Fri, 24 Jan 2003 01:16:48 +0100, you wrote:
>
> >
> >Hi David,
> >
> >The fact is that California during many years have a very active
> >program for saving of energy. This is the reason, because if you
> >look at other states in US, with similar climate conditions, they
> >are at average or above average. Of course, a lot is AC in those
> >states, very much offices. If you look at statistics over the years
> >and growth, you can clearly see that it is man made savings.
> >
> >California is the state that is and has been the most active state
> >in US, when it comes to energy conservation and pollution. We
> >had many exchange students and visiting professors from California
> >in the Swedish universities.
> >
> >Still the Californian use twice as much energy as the average Swede.
> >But they are best in the US after Hawaii, which is definitely determined
> >by the climate.
> >
> >Hakan
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >At 06:55 PM 1/23/2003 -0500, you wrote:
> >>Re:
> >>Californians 50%
> >>
> >>I don't want to step on a good thing, but is it 50% because of the climate,
> >>or 50% because Californians are
> >>different or more energy conscious?
> >>
> >>My gfather lives in San Diego.  He almost never has to turn the heat on,
> >>ever.  He only uses AC on the
> >>hotest of days.. perhaps 5 days if that.
> >>
> >>Contrast that to my coast, and its cold cold cold in the winter.. and hot
> >>and muggy in the summer where you
> >>might leave the AC in the car on while you tkae a shower and get ready for
> >>your date..lest you get all sweaty before you AC can
> >>cool your car.  
> >>
> >>
> >>So i dont really like the 50% one..
> >>
> >>on the other hand.. THIS ONE
> >>http://energy.saving.nu/biofuel-sticker-3.jpg
> >>
> >>is absolutely hilarious.   and gives you the secondary point of committing
> >>suicide on your dependence on the pump.
> >>
> >>funny..  :)
> >
> >
> >
> >Biofuels at Journey to Forever
> >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> >Biofuel at WebConX
> >http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm
> >List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech:
> >http://archive.nnytech.net/
> >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >
> >
> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>Biofuels at Journey to Forever
>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>Biofuel at WebConX
>http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm
>List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech:
>http://archive.nnytech.net/
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



Biofuels at Journey to Forever
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
Biofuel at WebConX
http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm
List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech:
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[biofuel] Re: [biofuels-biz] RE: californians 50%

2003-01-26 Thread Hakan Falk



Hi MM,

Look at,

http://california.energy.saving.nu/

especially,

http://energy.saving.nu/california/victim.shtml

and

http://peakdemand.energy.saving.nu/
http://fastfixes.energy.saving.nu/

and you will find some data.

It is quite interesting and you can see what I was pointing out
earlier.

Hakan


At 11:49 PM 1/25/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>You know, while it may be true that Californians have practiced and
>studied some good conservation principles, I also think David has a
>point.  Back when I was taking some hard look at America's overall
>energy usage, home heating oil is a very significant part of that
>usage.  Sometimes the statisticians will break out home heating oil
>from other statistics because it can tend to skew our understanding.
>
>Home heating oil is, I think, not as important in some parts of the
>country.
>
>We do have heating and cooling needs here in San Diego, but it is
>somewhat a matter of degree and location.  By the ocean, it is cooler
>and one doesn't need A/C as much.  Further inland A/C could be more
>important, it can get *very* hot in some areas, but it is dry here and
>not like some of the more humid extreme-heat situations.
>
>As to energy needs during cool periods, it is important to have heat,
>but obviously not as important nor as demanding on the energy supply
>as in a climate that often goes well below freezing, such as one finds
>in other parts of the country.
>
>
>
>On Fri, 24 Jan 2003 01:16:48 +0100, you wrote:
>
> >
> >Hi David,
> >
> >The fact is that California during many years have a very active
> >program for saving of energy. This is the reason, because if you
> >look at other states in US, with similar climate conditions, they
> >are at average or above average. Of course, a lot is AC in those
> >states, very much offices. If you look at statistics over the years
> >and growth, you can clearly see that it is man made savings.
> >
> >California is the state that is and has been the most active state
> >in US, when it comes to energy conservation and pollution. We
> >had many exchange students and visiting professors from California
> >in the Swedish universities.
> >
> >Still the Californian use twice as much energy as the average Swede.
> >But they are best in the US after Hawaii, which is definitely determined
> >by the climate.
> >
> >Hakan
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >At 06:55 PM 1/23/2003 -0500, you wrote:
> >>Re:
> >>Californians 50%
> >>
> >>I don't want to step on a good thing, but is it 50% because of the climate,
> >>or 50% because Californians are
> >>different or more energy conscious?
> >>
> >>My gfather lives in San Diego.  He almost never has to turn the heat on,
> >>ever.  He only uses AC on the
> >>hotest of days.. perhaps 5 days if that.
> >>
> >>Contrast that to my coast, and its cold cold cold in the winter.. and hot
> >>and muggy in the summer where you
> >>might leave the AC in the car on while you tkae a shower and get ready for
> >>your date..lest you get all sweaty before you AC can
> >>cool your car.  
> >>
> >>
> >>So i dont really like the 50% one..
> >>
> >>on the other hand.. THIS ONE
> >>http://energy.saving.nu/biofuel-sticker-3.jpg
> >>
> >>is absolutely hilarious.   and gives you the secondary point of committing
> >>suicide on your dependence on the pump.
> >>
> >>funny..  :)
> >
> >
> >
> >Biofuels at Journey to Forever
> >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> >Biofuel at WebConX
> >http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm
> >List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech:
> >http://archive.nnytech.net/
> >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >
> >
> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>Biofuels at Journey to Forever
>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>Biofuel at WebConX
>http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm
>List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech:
>http://archive.nnytech.net/
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



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Re: [biofuels-biz] RE: californians 50%

2003-01-26 Thread murdoch

You know, while it may be true that Californians have practiced and
studied some good conservation principles, I also think David has a
point.  Back when I was taking some hard look at America's overall
energy usage, home heating oil is a very significant part of that
usage.  Sometimes the statisticians will break out home heating oil
from other statistics because it can tend to skew our understanding.

Home heating oil is, I think, not as important in some parts of the
country.

We do have heating and cooling needs here in San Diego, but it is
somewhat a matter of degree and location.  By the ocean, it is cooler
and one doesn't need A/C as much.  Further inland A/C could be more
important, it can get *very* hot in some areas, but it is dry here and
not like some of the more humid extreme-heat situations.

As to energy needs during cool periods, it is important to have heat,
but obviously not as important nor as demanding on the energy supply
as in a climate that often goes well below freezing, such as one finds
in other parts of the country.



On Fri, 24 Jan 2003 01:16:48 +0100, you wrote:

>
>Hi David,
>
>The fact is that California during many years have a very active
>program for saving of energy. This is the reason, because if you
>look at other states in US, with similar climate conditions, they
>are at average or above average. Of course, a lot is AC in those
>states, very much offices. If you look at statistics over the years
>and growth, you can clearly see that it is man made savings.
>
>California is the state that is and has been the most active state
>in US, when it comes to energy conservation and pollution. We
>had many exchange students and visiting professors from California
>in the Swedish universities.
>
>Still the Californian use twice as much energy as the average Swede.
>But they are best in the US after Hawaii, which is definitely determined
>by the climate.
>
>Hakan
>
>
>
>
>At 06:55 PM 1/23/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>>Re:
>>Californians 50%
>>
>>I don't want to step on a good thing, but is it 50% because of the climate,
>>or 50% because Californians are
>>different or more energy conscious?
>>
>>My gfather lives in San Diego.  He almost never has to turn the heat on,
>>ever.  He only uses AC on the
>>hotest of days.. perhaps 5 days if that.
>>
>>Contrast that to my coast, and its cold cold cold in the winter.. and hot
>>and muggy in the summer where you
>>might leave the AC in the car on while you tkae a shower and get ready for
>>your date..lest you get all sweaty before you AC can
>>cool your car.  
>>
>>
>>So i dont really like the 50% one..
>>
>>on the other hand.. THIS ONE
>>http://energy.saving.nu/biofuel-sticker-3.jpg
>>
>>is absolutely hilarious.   and gives you the secondary point of committing
>>suicide on your dependence on the pump.
>>
>>funny..  :)
>
>
>
>Biofuels at Journey to Forever
>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>Biofuel at WebConX
>http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm
>List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech:
>http://archive.nnytech.net/
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> 
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
>
>


Biofuels at Journey to Forever
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
Biofuel at WebConX
http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm
List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech:
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Re: [biofuels-biz] RE: californians 50%

2003-01-23 Thread Hakan Falk


Hi David,

The fact is that California during many years have a very active
program for saving of energy. This is the reason, because if you
look at other states in US, with similar climate conditions, they
are at average or above average. Of course, a lot is AC in those
states, very much offices. If you look at statistics over the years
and growth, you can clearly see that it is man made savings.

California is the state that is and has been the most active state
in US, when it comes to energy conservation and pollution. We
had many exchange students and visiting professors from California
in the Swedish universities.

Still the Californian use twice as much energy as the average Swede.
But they are best in the US after Hawaii, which is definitely determined
by the climate.

Hakan




At 06:55 PM 1/23/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>Re:
>Californians 50%
>
>I don't want to step on a good thing, but is it 50% because of the climate,
>or 50% because Californians are
>different or more energy conscious?
>
>My gfather lives in San Diego.  He almost never has to turn the heat on,
>ever.  He only uses AC on the
>hotest of days.. perhaps 5 days if that.
>
>Contrast that to my coast, and its cold cold cold in the winter.. and hot
>and muggy in the summer where you
>might leave the AC in the car on while you tkae a shower and get ready for
>your date..lest you get all sweaty before you AC can
>cool your car.  
>
>
>So i dont really like the 50% one..
>
>on the other hand.. THIS ONE
>http://energy.saving.nu/biofuel-sticker-3.jpg
>
>is absolutely hilarious.   and gives you the secondary point of committing
>suicide on your dependence on the pump.
>
>funny..  :)



Biofuels at Journey to Forever
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
Biofuel at WebConX
http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm
List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech:
http://archive.nnytech.net/
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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