[svg-developers] Re: Announcement: Adobe to Discontinue Adobe SVG Viewer
I believe Adobe want not spend anoyher money on implementing SVG plugin compatibility for Vista/IE7, and that's why they announced it. It is very sad, since now SVG is geting more and more popular :-( If they could be at least so helpful to open source codes of ASV 3 / 6dev to community... M. --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, Doug Schepers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Ronan- Ronan Oger wrote: Yeah right, and compete with their own product? Doug, you are optimistic to a fault. Perhaps. But if you don't ask for something, you're unlikely to get it. This announcement from Adobe had a rather tentative tone in parts, suggesting to me that they might be feeling out community reaction; if that reaction is strongly negative enough, they might not wish to stir up such ill will. Jon Ferraiolo, a veteran of Adobe and a driving force behind SVG, goes even further than I in his suggestions to Adobe. They canned ASV to make room for their commercial solution and have no commercial incentive to keep it there as a thorn in their side for people to build applicatons around. Clearly. But they do have a moral responsibility to the community, regardless of whether they honor that responsibility. On top of that, everyone who has had to rebuild their apps to be ecmascript compliant after using ASV has loudly cursed their javascript implementation... They can only lose on reputation from having an old, unsupported product lying around gathering user ire. This doesn't sound like a very convincing argument to me. People are more aware about standardized scripting now, thanks in no small part to this list. ASV may be permissive in its scripting engine, but it also works (mostly) with the same code that works in Opera and FF. Anyone who has been foolhardy enough to code to ASVG must surely now have learned their lesson. This is the cost of vendor-supplied free addons. Nothing given by a company is free. Opera, Mozilla, and Microsoft are companies which give away their browser for free. I'm sure that all of them have older unsupported version of their browser, but I doubt that they no longer permit their distribution. I think this is highly unorthodox of Adobe. I think that other SVG viewers will now rise to the challenge, and we may be better off without the perception of SVG as an Adobe technology, but I still think this is poor practice by Adobe. Regards- -Doug Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- See what's inside the new Yahoo! Groups email. http://us.click.yahoo.com/3EuRwD/bOaOAA/yQLSAA/1U_rlB/TM ~- - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [svg-developers] Re: SVG Logo Contest: personal preferences sought
Ronan, many sounds like the dawn are almost universal. cheers Jonathan Chetwynd On 5 Sep 2006, at 17:47, Ronan Oger wrote: audio is language specific Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Something is new at Yahoo! Groups. Check out the enhanced email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/TktRrD/gOaOAA/yQLSAA/1U_rlB/TM ~- - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
AW: [svg-developers] Announcement: Adobe to Discontinue Adobe SVG Viewer
I think it is a good thing that Adobe ends the SVGViewer, because everybody knows in the meantime that Adobe has a new technology Flex/Flash and SVG is competing to this. Now SVG has the possibility to grow to a nonpartisan standard which is not influenced by one company But the way Adobe tries to constrain each SVG developer to Flex/Flash is very bad. EOL of SVGViewer is ok but removing the product within 1,5 years from market is not ok. They know that there is no alternative for IE at the moment. I agree with Jon that this time slot should be think over by Adobe. With Flex/Flash i have no alternative to SVG i think. With this product i have the same thing we had with SVG in the past. Adobe has the only control because a plugin the FlashPlayer is neede. Who say to me, that Adobe will not said in two years: i have a new technology because of this EOL of Flex/Flash in one year? Or all users now use Flex/Flash now they have to pay a fee for using this product. This imorally, but Adobe use this procedure with SVG why not with other products too. Regards Armin Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- See what's inside the new Yahoo! Groups email. http://us.click.yahoo.com/3EuRwD/bOaOAA/yQLSAA/1U_rlB/TM ~- - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
AW: [svg-developers] Is Adobe's greed clearing the way for XAML
Geoffrey, just a question. Do you know whether XAML is workable on IE7 windows XP, which will be installed by MicrosoftUpdate without installing NETFramework 3.0 too? Armin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von Geoffrey Swenson Gesendet: Donnerstag, 7. September 2006 09:32 An: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com Betreff: [svg-developers] Is Adobe's greed clearing the way for XAML By abandoning SVG, the net effect for us and Adobe is that XAML is going to be the way to go. Unless Adobe massively changes Flash to have a decent editor and improves the ease of programming I just don't see it gaining a lot of developer interest. Why should I pay almost $1000 for Flash and its tedious, user-hostile graphic editor, the non-intuitive and overly animation-focused timeline editor, when the same $1000 buys me the MSDN library including XAML that was designed from the ground up to be a programmable graphical environment? If you don't have $1000 for MSDN, just Notepad and a good XAML book online help should get you a long ways, especially for web-based stuff. Microsoft can leverage their position as the largest software company to make XAML a very complete solution in a way that nobody else can manage. I'm sure that it will be, as usual, somewhat overdeveloped and bloated, but since it is part of the graphical underpinnings of Vista, they must have got it to work, unlike - for example - Firefox SVG which is still way behind the soon-to-be-orphaned Adobe plug-in. If I am going to have to pick one technology, I'll take the one that runs on most of the computers. I am also picking the one that makes development easy. If it happens to be Open Source, fine, but if XAML ends up being the way to go, so be it. It really helps to have a revenue stream to pay for a lot of talented work. Just 5% of Microsoft's Vista budget is hundreds of millions of dollars - even Adobe does not have that kind of money to spend on this. By early next year IE7 and Vista will be released. Almost everyone running XP will be automatically upgraded to IE7, so coverage will be fairly large in a few weeks after the release. I don't agree with the reviewers that think that Vista / IE7 are a warmed over copy of Apple and Firefox. Perhaps the user interfaces are nothing really new, but under the hood is a whole host of improvements are going to make development of custom graphical applications a lot easier. XAML is at the core of this, and I am looking forward to it. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Groups gets a make over. See the new email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/WktRrD/lOaOAA/yQLSAA/1U_rlB/TM ~- - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [svg-developers] Re: Announcement: Adobe to Discontinue Adobe SVG Viewer
Jon, That was beautifully written. Thank you for your work and advocacy in the SVG community. What's the next step for our community to take, regarding items 3, 4, and 5? Margie On 9/6/06, jon_ferraiolo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Pat, Now that I am a member of the community and no longer an employee of Adobe, here is my reaction: (1) First off, I believe that Adobe deserves a great amount of appreciation for their contributions to SVG and the open standards world for their activities in previous years. Adobe provided a high-quality free implementation of an SVG viewer at large expense. (Pat, you know this perhaps better than anyone.) Adobe also has provided (and presumably will continue to provide) excellent support for SVG in some of its products, particularly Illustrator. Adobe has also made large contributions within the standards community on SVG. (2) It is understandable that at some point Adobe would announce the end-of-life for Adobe SVG Viewer. Since the Macromedia acquisition (at least, perhaps even earlier), it is clear that Adobe doesn't consider the SVG viewer to be strategic. Also, browsers are adding SVG support natively. (3) HOWEVER, I believe that some of the details regarding this end-of-life announcement are unacceptable to the community and not in Adobe's own best interests. To me, it is OK to stop support (presumably developer support and security fixes) on Adobe SVG Viewer in the relative near-term, but instead of giving four months of advanced notice (i.e., 1/1/07), it should be something measured in years, something in the range of 2-4 years. (Note: 5 years is the usual amount for developer-oriented software.) (4) It reflects badly on Adobe that it did not donate the ASV source code (at least the higher-level logic that sits above the graphics rendering engine) to open soure. If Adobe isn't going to use ASV, then it should give it to the community so they can use it. Given how Adobe promoted industry adoption of ASV in the early days and thereby convinced many developers to build mission-critical applications using SVG, it is the least that Adobe could do. (5) But the worst part of this announcement is the removal of ASV downloads as of 1/1/08, with no option for others to host a different ASV download site. As others have pointed out, this will be devastating to those poor souls who made a commitment to ASV in the past and need their deployed SVG applications to continue working in IE, which today has something like 80% market share and is unlikely to support SVG natively before a couple of years go by. This particular decision reflects badly on Adobe as a business partner with developers. If nothing else, I appeal to Adobe to rethink this part of their decision. How much does it cost a company to maintain a single web page that is already working? If ASV quits working in some situations, such as ASV not running under Vista, then just add text to the download page alerting people that ASV has been EOL'd and is known not to work with Vista. (But the better approach would be to open source ASV so that the community can fix any such bugs.) Jon Ferraiolo IBM Adobe has decided to discontinue support for Adobe SVG Viewer. There are a number of other third-party SVG viewer implementations in the marketplace, including native support for SVG in many Web browsers. The SVG language and its adoption in the marketplace have both matured to the point where it is no longer necessary for Adobe to provide an SVG viewer. SVG is an established vector image format. Adobe currently supports SVG in several of its authoring and server products, including Illustrator, InDesign, GoLive, Version Cue, Graphics Server, FrameMaker, and FrameMaker Server. Adobe customer support for Adobe SVG Viewer will be discontinued on January 1, 2007. For more information on this decision and answers to questions about the discontinuation of Adobe SVG Viewer, please see http://www.adobe.com/svg Messages in this topic http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/message/56704;_ylc=X3oDMTM2cGwwcGptBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEyOTg0MjEEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNjAxMDMwMzg5BG1zZ0lkAzU2NzIzBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTE1NzU4OTQ0MgR0cGNJZAM1NjcwNA--( 12) Reply (via web post) http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxMXB1ZjZzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEyOTg0MjEEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNjAxMDMwMzg5BG1zZ0lkAzU2NzIzBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTE1NzU4OTQ0Mg--?act=replymessageNum=56723| Start a new topic http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJlaGJqa3IwBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEyOTg0MjEEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNjAxMDMwMzg5BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTE1NzU4OTQ0Mg-- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Something is new at Yahoo! Groups. Check out the enhanced email design.
Re: [svg-developers] Is Adobe's greed clearing the way for XAML
Hi, Geoffrey- Yes, I for one welcome our new vector format overlords. ;) I do agree that Flash is a little underpowered in the programming side (from what I've seen). But XAML is way too overworked. I think SVG is in a sweet spot between the two, and it's based on standards that are widely implemented. We don't know yet how SVG in IE will play out, but I'm not ready to jump ship yet. Regards- -Doug Geoffrey Swenson wrote: By abandoning SVG, the net effect for us and Adobe is that XAML is going to be the way to go. Unless Adobe massively changes Flash to have a decent editor and improves the ease of programming I just don't see it gaining a lot of developer interest. Why should I pay almost $1000 for Flash and its tedious, user-hostile graphic editor, the non-intuitive and overly animation-focused timeline editor, when the same $1000 buys me the MSDN library including XAML that was designed from the ground up to be a programmable graphical environment? If you don't have $1000 for MSDN, just Notepad and a good XAML book online help should get you a long ways, especially for web-based stuff. Microsoft can leverage their position as the largest software company to make XAML a very complete solution in a way that nobody else can manage. I'm sure that it will be, as usual, somewhat overdeveloped and bloated, but since it is part of the graphical underpinnings of Vista, they must have got it to work, unlike - for example - Firefox SVG which is still way behind the soon-to-be-orphaned Adobe plug-in. If I am going to have to pick one technology, I'll take the one that runs on most of the computers. I am also picking the one that makes development easy. If it happens to be Open Source, fine, but if XAML ends up being the way to go, so be it. It really helps to have a revenue stream to pay for a lot of talented work. Just 5% of Microsoft's Vista budget is hundreds of millions of dollars - even Adobe does not have that kind of money to spend on this. By early next year IE7 and Vista will be released. Almost everyone running XP will be automatically upgraded to IE7, so coverage will be fairly large in a few weeks after the release. I don't agree with the reviewers that think that Vista / IE7 are a warmed over copy of Apple and Firefox. Perhaps the user interfaces are nothing really new, but under the hood is a whole host of improvements are going to make development of custom graphical applications a lot easier. XAML is at the core of this, and I am looking forward to it. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Groups gets a make over. See the new email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/WktRrD/lOaOAA/yQLSAA/1U_rlB/TM ~- - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[svg-developers] SVG and CMYK woes
Hello all I'm new to this group so I apologise if this has been covered somewhere before (no google or yahoo results though!) Background We're looking to adopt SVG formatted documents to produce our images, so far everything is excellent and going to plan except when we get to our Macintosh printing guys We have a certain range of colours we have to use these are defined in CMYK values - i do not see how to put these into an SVG file. I have looked at icc-color stuff but find the whole thing very confusing (like where to get the def file from??) I've also tried using RGB values but for some reason it doesn't convert to what I expect. e.g. RGB of 8,96,168 converts to C 94, M 65, Y 3, K 0 we are using Adobe Illustrator CS2 to verify. The exact colour I am trying to achive is C 100%, M 40%, Y 0%, K 0% can anybody help?? Thanks in advance Chris. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Something is new at Yahoo! Groups. Check out the enhanced email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/TktRrD/gOaOAA/yQLSAA/1U_rlB/TM ~- - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[svg-developers] Re: Changing stroke color
--- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, zedkineece [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am using ASV 3, and the 'item' element belongs to Adobe viewer's custom context menu option. There are no errors, and when I inserted your code, there are still no errors and no change in color. I am not able to tell where the problem is. Can you post a URL to the SVG document where the problem occurs? I have made a simple test case following the documentation here http://wiki.svg.org/Context_Menu_Customization and that test case with the Test green item changing the stroke of a circle element http://home.arcor.de/martin.honnen/svg/test2006090701.svg works for me without problems with Adobe SVG viewer 3 and IE 6. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Check out the new improvements in Yahoo! Groups email. http://us.click.yahoo.com/7EuRwD/fOaOAA/yQLSAA/1U_rlB/TM ~- - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [svg-developers] Re: Announcement: Adobe to Discontinue Adobe SVG Viewer
Margie, Thanks for the kind words. In terms of possible next steps, I suggest finding a way to express your point of view (professionally, of course) within a blog or a forum that Adobe would read. (I don't know the degree to which Adobe monitors this forum and I am not sure what other industry forums they read these days.) An important thing would be to give detailed information about the business impact that you face. Adobe is likely to be more receptive if a company speaks up and talks about any specific difficulties that they will face and what Adobe could do about relieving those difficulties. Adobe is less likely to listen to people who simply get up on their soapbox. (I already did that.) Jon Jon Ferraiolo [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web Architect, Emerging Technologies IBM, Menlo Park, CA Mobile: +1-650-464-7817 Marjorie Roswell [EMAIL PROTECTED] To om svg-developers@yahoogroups.com Sent by: cc [EMAIL PROTECTED] hoogroups.com Subject Re: [svg-developers] Re: Announcement: Adobe to Discontinue 09/07/2006 05:03 Adobe SVG Viewer AM Please respond to [EMAIL PROTECTED] hoogroups.com Jon, That was beautifully written. Thank you for your work and advocacy in the SVG community. What's the next step for our community to take, regarding items 3, 4, and 5? Margie On 9/6/06, jon_ferraiolo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Pat, Now that I am a member of the community and no longer an employee of Adobe, here is my reaction: (1) First off, I believe that Adobe deserves a great amount of appreciation for their contributions to SVG and the open standards world for their activities in previous years. Adobe provided a high-quality free implementation of an SVG viewer at large expense. (Pat, you know this perhaps better than anyone.) Adobe also has provided (and presumably will continue to provide) excellent support for SVG in some of its products, particularly Illustrator. Adobe has also made large contributions within the standards community on SVG. (2) It is understandable that at some point Adobe would announce the end-of-life for Adobe SVG Viewer. Since the Macromedia acquisition (at least, perhaps even earlier), it is clear that Adobe doesn't consider the SVG viewer to be strategic. Also, browsers are adding SVG support natively. (3) HOWEVER, I believe that some of the details regarding this end-of-life announcement are unacceptable to the community and not in Adobe's own best interests. To me, it is OK to stop support (presumably developer support and security fixes) on Adobe SVG Viewer in the relative near-term, but instead of giving four months of advanced notice (i.e., 1/1/07), it should be something measured in years, something in the range of 2-4 years. (Note: 5 years is the usual amount for developer-oriented software.) (4) It reflects badly on Adobe that it did not donate the ASV source code (at least the higher-level logic that sits above the graphics rendering engine) to open soure. If Adobe isn't going to use ASV, then it should give it to the community so they can use it. Given how Adobe promoted industry adoption of ASV in the early days and thereby convinced many developers to build mission-critical applications using SVG, it is the least that Adobe could do. (5) But the worst part of this announcement is the removal of ASV downloads as of 1/1/08, with no option for others to host a different ASV download site. As others have pointed out, this will be devastating to those poor souls who made a commitment to ASV in the past and need their deployed SVG applications to continue working in IE, which today has something like 80% market share and is unlikely to support SVG natively before a couple of years go by. This particular decision reflects badly on Adobe as a business partner with developers. If nothing
Re: [svg-developers] Re: Changing stroke color
Unfortunately, I am behind US Government firewall, and I cannot FTP. I will look at your approach and see if I can implement into my solution. Thanks for all your help thus far. kmartin7 On 9/7/06, Martin Honnen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.comsvg-developers%40yahoogroups.com, zedkineece [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am using ASV 3, and the 'item' element belongs to Adobe viewer's custom context menu option. There are no errors, and when I inserted your code, there are still no errors and no change in color. I am not able to tell where the problem is. Can you post a URL to the SVG document where the problem occurs? I have made a simple test case following the documentation here http://wiki.svg.org/Context_Menu_Customization and that test case with the Test green item changing the stroke of a circle element http://home.arcor.de/martin.honnen/svg/test2006090701.svg works for me without problems with Adobe SVG viewer 3 and IE 6. -- Kurt D. Martin 405.343.7116 (c) 405.759.3075 (h) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Something is new at Yahoo! Groups. Check out the enhanced email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/TktRrD/gOaOAA/yQLSAA/1U_rlB/TM ~- - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [svg-developers] Re: Changing stroke color
Ah! I have been so engrossed about getting this done on time, I just realized that the color is set by a style attribute. Now a totally different quandry: how can I only access reset the color in the style attribute? Here is my style string: font-family:Verdana;font-size:1.4;stroke-width:0.015px ;fill:#66;;fill-rule:nonzero;stroke:gray;stroke-linecap:round;stroke-linejoin:round Surely it isn't element.setAttributeNS(null, 'style', 'font-family:Verdana;font-size:1.4 ;stroke-width:0.015px ;fill:#66;;fill-rule:nonzero;stroke:gray;stroke-linecap:round;stroke-linejoin:round'); On 9/7/06, Martin Honnen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.comsvg-developers%40yahoogroups.com, zedkineece [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am using ASV 3, and the 'item' element belongs to Adobe viewer's custom context menu option. There are no errors, and when I inserted your code, there are still no errors and no change in color. I am not able to tell where the problem is. Can you post a URL to the SVG document where the problem occurs? I have made a simple test case following the documentation here http://wiki.svg.org/Context_Menu_Customization and that test case with the Test green item changing the stroke of a circle element http://home.arcor.de/martin.honnen/svg/test2006090701.svg works for me without problems with Adobe SVG viewer 3 and IE 6. -- Kurt D. Martin 405.343.7116 (c) 405.759.3075 (h) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Groups gets a make over. See the new email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/WktRrD/lOaOAA/yQLSAA/1U_rlB/TM ~- - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[svg-developers] Re: SVG and CMYK woes
--- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, chris_hughes22 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello all I'm new to this group so I apologise if this has been covered somewhere before (no google or yahoo results though!) Background We're looking to adopt SVG formatted documents to produce our images, so far everything is excellent and going to plan except when we get to our Macintosh printing guys We have a certain range of colours we have to use these are defined in CMYK values - i do not see how to put these into an SVG file. I have looked at icc-color stuff but find the whole thing very confusing (like where to get the def file from??) I've also tried using RGB values but for some reason it doesn't convert to what I expect. e.g. RGB of 8,96,168 converts to C 94, M 65, Y 3, K 0 we are using Adobe Illustrator CS2 to verify. The exact colour I am trying to achive is C 100%, M 40%, Y 0%, K 0% can anybody help?? Thanks in advance Chris. Have you tried a generic web-site that will convert between formats? I just found: http://web.forret.com/tools/color.asp putting your numbers in I got rgb of 0,153,255 or #0099FF Also read the note in the references near the bottom Bruce Rindahl Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Great things are happening at Yahoo! Groups. See the new email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/SktRrD/hOaOAA/yQLSAA/1U_rlB/TM ~- - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[svg-developers] Re: Announcement: Adobe to Discontinue Adobe SVG Viewer
We can't rely on Microsoft, just like we shouldn't have been comfortable relying on Adobe, to do the right thing and implement native support for SVG for free. There are business considerations that will always take priority. Even if they do it, I fear compatibility issues - their browser engine is still the worst of the major browsers out there. So where are the open source, cross-platform SVG 1.1 viewers ? What about taking the Mozilla base and developing a browser plugin from that for only SVG support? What about candidates like AmanithVG and Renesis for a SVG 1.2 viewer? Let's get a list of all the candidate open-source projects and contribute so that they flourish before Jan 2008. And I agree with Jon - praise to Adobe for past support, but I cry foul to MacroAdobe for this distinctly hostile gesture towards this development community. They know there is no suitable replacement for IE as of today. Jeff --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, Jon Ferraiolo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Margie, Thanks for the kind words. In terms of possible next steps, I suggest finding a way to express your point of view (professionally, of course) within a blog or a forum that Adobe would read. (I don't know the degree to which Adobe monitors this forum and I am not sure what other industry forums they read these days.) An important thing would be to give detailed information about the business impact that you face. Adobe is likely to be more receptive if a company speaks up and talks about any specific difficulties that they will face and what Adobe could do about relieving those difficulties. Adobe is less likely to listen to people who simply get up on their soapbox. (I already did that.) Jon Jon Ferraiolo [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web Architect, Emerging Technologies IBM, Menlo Park, CA Mobile: +1-650-464-7817 Marjorie Roswell [EMAIL PROTECTED] To om svg- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: cc svg- [EMAIL PROTECTED] hoogroups.com Subject Re: [svg-developers] Re: Announcement: Adobe to Discontinue 09/07/2006 05:03 Adobe SVG Viewer AM Please respond to svg- [EMAIL PROTECTED] hoogroups.com Jon, That was beautifully written. Thank you for your work and advocacy in the SVG community. What's the next step for our community to take, regarding items 3, 4, and 5? Margie On 9/6/06, jon_ferraiolo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Pat, Now that I am a member of the community and no longer an employee of Adobe, here is my reaction: (1) First off, I believe that Adobe deserves a great amount of appreciation for their contributions to SVG and the open standards world for their activities in previous years. Adobe provided a high-quality free implementation of an SVG viewer at large expense. (Pat, you know this perhaps better than anyone.) Adobe also has provided (and presumably will continue to provide) excellent support for SVG in some of its products, particularly Illustrator. Adobe has also made large contributions within the standards community on SVG. (2) It is understandable that at some point Adobe would announce the end-of-life for Adobe SVG Viewer. Since the Macromedia acquisition (at least, perhaps even earlier), it is clear that Adobe doesn't consider the SVG viewer to be strategic. Also, browsers are adding SVG support natively. (3) HOWEVER, I believe that some of the details regarding this end-of-life announcement are unacceptable to the community and not in Adobe's own best interests. To me, it is OK to stop support (presumably developer support and security fixes) on Adobe SVG Viewer in the relative near-term, but instead of giving four months of advanced notice (i.e., 1/1/07), it should be something measured in
Re: [svg-developers] Re: Changing stroke color
Here is my dilemma. I have pasted a portion of the code to show what I have: *** ?xml version=1.0 encoding=UTF-16? svg version=1.1 onload=InitContextMenu() preserveAspectRatio=xMidYMid xml:space=preserve viewBox=-0.317924 -8.41906 14.3537 8.07632 width=100% height=100% xmlns:svg=http://www.w3.org/2000/svg; xmlns= http://www.w3.org/2000/svg; xmlns:cs=http://www.aftercad.com/cad; xmlns:xlink=http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink; g id=MSSA style=font-family:Verdana;font-size:1.4px;stroke-width:0.015px ;fill:#66;;fill-rule:nonzero;stroke:gray;stroke-linecap:round;stroke-linejoin:round set attributeName=stroke to=#E1 begin=click end=mouseup+0.1 / set attributeName=fill to=#E1 begin=click end=mouseup+0.1 / set attributeName=stroke-width to=0.015px begin=click end=click / set attributeName=stroke to=#FFCC00 begin=mouseover end=mouseout / set attributeName=fill to=#FFCC00 begin=mouseover end=mouseout / set attributeName=stroke-width to=0.0175px begin=mouseover end=mouseout / text transform=matrix(0.0625 0 0 0.0625 2.4181 -6.79844)MSSA/text polyline points=2.35757679,-6.7587878 2.89307391,-6.7587878 / polyline points=2.89169731,-6.75798446 2.79984604,-6.80844657 / polyline points=2.89169731,-6.75798442 2.79984604,-6.7075223 / polyline points=2.80198692,-6.80727039 2.80198692,-6.80454195 / polyline points=2.88609042,-6.76106483 2.88609042,-6.75490405 / polyline points=2.88048351,-6.7641452 2.88048351,-6.75182368 / polyline points=2.8748766,-6.76722558 2.8748766,-6.7487433 / polyline points=2.86926969,-6.77030596 2.86926969,-6.74566292 / polyline points=2.86366278,-6.77338633 2.86366278,-6.74258255 / polyline points=2.85805587,-6.77646671 2.85805587,-6.73950217 / polyline points=2.85244896,-6.77954709 2.85244896,-6.73642179 / polyline points=2.84684205,-6.78262746 2.84684205,-6.73334141 / polyline points=2.84123514,-6.78570784 2.84123514,-6.73026103 / polyline points=2.83562823,-6.78878822 2.83562823,-6.72718066 / polyline points=2.83002133,-6.79186859 2.83002133,-6.72410029 / polyline points=2.82441445,-6.79494895 2.82441445,-6.72101993 / polyline points=2.81880757,-6.79802931 2.81880757,-6.71793956 / polyline points=2.81320068,-6.80110967 2.81320068,-6.7148592 / polyline points=2.8075938,-6.80419003 2.8075938,-6.79163024 / polyline points=2.80198692,-6.71142694 2.80198692,-6.70869848 / polyline points=2.8075938,-6.72433865 2.8075938,-6.71177884 / path d=M2.8133673,-6.75798445 A0.100924331,0.100924331 0 0,0 2.79984602,- 6.80844659 / path d=M2.79984602,-6.7075223 A0.100924331,0.100924331 29.874 0,0 2.8133673,-6.75798442 / /g g id=BFRJAM style=font-family:Verdana;font-size:1.4px;stroke-width: 0.015px ;fill:#66;;fill-rule:nonzero;stroke:gray;stroke-linecap:round;stroke-linejoin:round set attributeName=stroke to=#E1 begin=click end=mouseup+0.1 / set attributeName=fill to=#E1 begin=click end=mouseup+0.1 / set attributeName=stroke-width to=0.015px begin=click end=click / set attributeName=stroke to=#FFCC00 begin=mouseover end=mouseout / set attributeName=fill to=#FFCC00 begin=mouseover end=mouseout / set attributeName=stroke-width to=0.0175px begin=mouseover end=mouseout / text transform=matrix(0.0625 0 0 0.0625 3.20609 -4.51071)DEMO_D/text polyline points=3.04783893,-4.47718498 3.9368703,-4.47718498 / polyline points=3.9353936,-4.47694294 3.84354233,-4.52740505 / polyline points=3.9353936,-4.47694289 3.84354233,-4.42648078 / polyline points=3.84568322,-4.52622887 3.84568322,-4.52350042 / polyline points=3.92978672,-4.4800233 3.92978672,-4.47386253 / polyline points=3.9241798,-4.48310367 3.9241798,-4.47078215 / polyline points=3.91857289,-4.48618406 3.91857289,-4.46770177 / polyline points=3.91296598,-4.48926443 3.91296598,-4.4646214 / polyline points=3.90735907,-4.49234481 3.90735907,-4.46154102 / polyline points=3.90175216,-4.49542519 3.90175216,-4.45846064 / polyline points=3.89614525,-4.49850556 3.89614525,-4.45538027 / polyline points=3.89053834,-4.50158594 3.89053834,-4.45229989 / polyline points=3.88493143,-4.50466632 3.88493143,-4.44921951 / polyline points=3.87932452,-4.5077467 3.87932452,-4.44613913 / polyline points=3.87371762,-4.51082707 3.87371762,-4.44305876 / polyline points=3.86811074,-4.51390743 3.86811074,-4.4399784 / polyline points=3.86250386,-4.51698779 3.86250386,-4.43689804 / polyline points=3.85689698,-4.52006815 3.85689698,-4.43381768 / polyline points=3.8512901,-4.52314851 3.8512901,-4.51058872 / polyline points=3.84568322,-4.43038542 3.84568322,-4.42765696 / polyline points=3.8512901,-4.44329713 3.8512901,-4.43073732 / path d=M3.8570636,-4.47694292 A0.100924331,0.100924331 0 0,0 3.84354231,- 4.52740507 / path d=M3.84354231,-4.42648078 A0.100924331,0.100924331 29.874 0,0 3.8570636,-4.47694289 / polyline points=3.04555034,-4.48117033 3.04555034,-4.48117033 / polyline points=3.04555034,-4.52355325
[svg-developers] Re: SVG and CMYK woes
--- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, brucerindahl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, chris_hughes22 chris_hughes22@ wrote: Hello all I'm new to this group so I apologise if this has been covered somewhere before (no google or yahoo results though!) Background We're looking to adopt SVG formatted documents to produce our images, so far everything is excellent and going to plan except when we get to our Macintosh printing guys We have a certain range of colours we have to use these are defined in CMYK values - i do not see how to put these into an SVG file. I have looked at icc-color stuff but find the whole thing very confusing (like where to get the def file from??) I've also tried using RGB values but for some reason it doesn't convert to what I expect. e.g. RGB of 8,96,168 converts to C 94, M 65, Y 3, K 0 we are using Adobe Illustrator CS2 to verify. The exact colour I am trying to achive is C 100%, M 40%, Y 0%, K 0% can anybody help?? Thanks in advance Chris. Have you tried a generic web-site that will convert between formats? I just found: http://web.forret.com/tools/color.asp putting your numbers in I got rgb of 0,153,255 or #0099FF Also read the note in the references near the bottom Bruce Rindahl Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Something is new at Yahoo! Groups. Check out the enhanced email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/TktRrD/gOaOAA/yQLSAA/1U_rlB/TM ~- - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [svg-developers] Is Adobe's greed clearing the way for XAML
Geoffrey Swenson wrote: Why should I pay almost $1000 for Flash and its tedious, user-hostile graphic editor, the non-intuitive and overly animation-focused timeline editor, when the same $1000 buys me the MSDN library including XAML that was designed from the ground up to be a programmable graphical environment? For what it's worth, you can create high-performance SWF for free, within an XML development environment, with Adobe Flex 2: http://www.adobe.com/products/flex/ http://weblogs.macromedia.com/mesh/archives/2006/03/flex_is_free.html (The optional Eclipse-based IDE with visualization, Flex Builder, is available for half the price you cite... currently Windows-only, but Adobe is contributing to the Eclipse project to make the Mac version more stable, and these Eclipse changes may make other development platforms possible as well. There is also an optional Flex Data Services* for persistent connection and data synchronization, whether across sessions or across computers, which is free for small-scale use, but per-CPU for larger-scale work. The framework, documentation and compiler, however, all offer a zero-cost way to make data-fed interactive graphics for the web today.) * http://www.adobe.com/products/flex/productinfo/faq/#item-25 For deployment, I have absolutely no idea when Vista-style XAML or its XP/other subsets will be widely adopted on consumer machines, but I do know that Flash Player 8 has reached 90+% consumer viewability within its first twelve months, and that Flash Player 9 (the minimum runtime for Flex 2 work) is being successfully installed at an even greater rate. (ie, it's easy to choose your own authoring environment; harder to have your work perform predictability on the world's varied machines... for practical deployment it's no-contest.) For the news about Adobe SVG Viewer, I first learned of it here on the mailing list myself, and am summarizing and highlighting posts here and on the web for other staffers. Your words will be heard. jd -- John Dowdell . Adobe Developer Support . San Francisco CA USA Weblog: http://weblogs.macromedia.com/jd Aggregator: http://weblogs.macromedia.com/mxna Technotes: http://www.macromedia.com/support/ Spam killed my private email -- public record is best, thanks. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Groups gets a make over. See the new email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/WktRrD/lOaOAA/yQLSAA/1U_rlB/TM ~- - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[svg-developers] Re: Announcement: Adobe to Discontinue Adobe SVG Viewer
Building an IE plugin on top of Mozilla source sounds so appealing and yet disturbing at the same time. A Mozilla/Cairo SVG plugin for IE does sound like it could be a viable technical solution (though I have no exposure to the source to say how big an undertaking it'd be). I don't know what the licensing implications are though. From a quick search, both pieces of code appear to be available under the Mozilla Public License http://www.mozilla.org/MPL/MPL-1.1.html (Cairo is also optionally available under LGPL). Such a plugin should make rendering and features pretty consistent across Mozilla IE. --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Schiller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We can't rely on Microsoft, just like we shouldn't have been comfortable relying on Adobe, to do the right thing and implement native support for SVG for free. There are business considerations that will always take priority. Even if they do it, I fear compatibility issues - their browser engine is still the worst of the major browsers out there. So where are the open source, cross-platform SVG 1.1 viewers ? What about taking the Mozilla base and developing a browser plugin from that for only SVG support? What about candidates like AmanithVG and Renesis for a SVG 1.2 viewer? Let's get a list of all the candidate open-source projects and contribute so that they flourish before Jan 2008. And I agree with Jon - praise to Adobe for past support, but I cry foul to MacroAdobe for this distinctly hostile gesture towards this development community. They know there is no suitable replacement for IE as of today. Jeff --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, Jon Ferraiolo jferrai@ wrote: Margie, Thanks for the kind words. In terms of possible next steps, I suggest finding a way to express your point of view (professionally, of course) within a blog or a forum that Adobe would read. (I don't know the degree to which Adobe monitors this forum and I am not sure what other industry forums they read these days.) An important thing would be to give detailed information about the business impact that you face. Adobe is likely to be more receptive if a company speaks up and talks about any specific difficulties that they will face and what Adobe could do about relieving those difficulties. Adobe is less likely to listen to people who simply get up on their soapbox. (I already did that.) Jon Jon Ferraiolo jferrai@ Web Architect, Emerging Technologies IBM, Menlo Park, CA Mobile: +1-650-464-7817 Marjorie Roswell mroswell@ To om svg- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: cc svg- [EMAIL PROTECTED] hoogroups.com Subject Re: [svg-developers] Re: Announcement: Adobe to Discontinue 09/07/2006 05:03 Adobe SVG Viewer AM Please respond to svg- [EMAIL PROTECTED] hoogroups.com Jon, That was beautifully written. Thank you for your work and advocacy in the SVG community. What's the next step for our community to take, regarding items 3, 4, and 5? Margie On 9/6/06, jon_ferraiolo jferrai@ wrote: Hi Pat, Now that I am a member of the community and no longer an employee of Adobe, here is my reaction: (1) First off, I believe that Adobe deserves a great amount of appreciation for their contributions to SVG and the open standards world for their activities in previous years. Adobe provided a high-quality free implementation of an SVG viewer at large expense. (Pat, you know this perhaps better than anyone.) Adobe also has provided (and presumably will continue to provide) excellent support for SVG in some of its products, particularly Illustrator. Adobe has also
[svg-developers] Re: Announcement: Adobe to Discontinue Adobe SVG Viewer
Jon, Do you seriously believe that Adobe will change its plans and modify the course of Flash/Flex to please one or two companies with no impact on Adobe's business? Come on Jon, among all people you should know how Adobe misslead everybody in the SVG community during the past few years. Giving people hope that Adobe can still be helpful is only helping killing SVG at this point. And I know this is not what you want. Marc --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, Jon Ferraiolo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Margie, Thanks for the kind words. In terms of possible next steps, I suggest finding a way to express your point of view (professionally, of course) within a blog or a forum that Adobe would read. (I don't know the degree to which Adobe monitors this forum and I am not sure what other industry forums they read these days.) An important thing would be to give detailed information about the business impact that you face. Adobe is likely to be more receptive if a company speaks up and talks about any specific difficulties that they will face and what Adobe could do about relieving those difficulties. Adobe is less likely to listen to people who simply get up on their soapbox. (I already did that.) Jon Jon Ferraiolo [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web Architect, Emerging Technologies IBM, Menlo Park, CA Mobile: +1-650-464-7817 Marjorie Roswell [EMAIL PROTECTED] To om svg- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: cc svg- [EMAIL PROTECTED] hoogroups.com Subject Re: [svg-developers] Re: Announcement: Adobe to Discontinue 09/07/2006 05:03 Adobe SVG Viewer AM Please respond to svg- [EMAIL PROTECTED] hoogroups.com Jon, That was beautifully written. Thank you for your work and advocacy in the SVG community. What's the next step for our community to take, regarding items 3, 4, and 5? Margie On 9/6/06, jon_ferraiolo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Pat, Now that I am a member of the community and no longer an employee of Adobe, here is my reaction: (1) First off, I believe that Adobe deserves a great amount of appreciation for their contributions to SVG and the open standards world for their activities in previous years. Adobe provided a high-quality free implementation of an SVG viewer at large expense. (Pat, you know this perhaps better than anyone.) Adobe also has provided (and presumably will continue to provide) excellent support for SVG in some of its products, particularly Illustrator. Adobe has also made large contributions within the standards community on SVG. (2) It is understandable that at some point Adobe would announce the end-of-life for Adobe SVG Viewer. Since the Macromedia acquisition (at least, perhaps even earlier), it is clear that Adobe doesn't consider the SVG viewer to be strategic. Also, browsers are adding SVG support natively. (3) HOWEVER, I believe that some of the details regarding this end-of-life announcement are unacceptable to the community and not in Adobe's own best interests. To me, it is OK to stop support (presumably developer support and security fixes) on Adobe SVG Viewer in the relative near-term, but instead of giving four months of advanced notice (i.e., 1/1/07), it should be something measured in years, something in the range of 2-4 years. (Note: 5 years is the usual amount for developer-oriented software.) (4) It reflects badly on Adobe that it did not donate the ASV source code (at least the higher-level logic that sits above the graphics rendering engine) to open soure. If Adobe isn't going to use ASV, then it should give it to the community so they can use it. Given how Adobe promoted industry adoption of ASV in the early days and thereby convinced many developers to
Re: [svg-developers] Re: Announcement: Adobe to Discontinue Adobe SVG Viewer
Hi, Jeff- As usual, I think you hit the nail on the head. I have been taking stock on exactly the options you have gone over. Mozilla is open source and of high quality. Renesis has made good progress and is planning some very interesting things for their October release. Amanith is just lovely, but they have no DOM or scripting. All of these have one thing in common: we need to figure out how to package any or all of these as a plug-in/Add On for IE. We would need information on: * The basic packaging of how this would work, including managing how the target content (SVG) is recognized and rendered. I have looked around, but could not find a clear set of instructions... I'm sure it's out there, though. Possibly we can even find even a stub that will serve as a template. * How to manage SVG-HTML communication, possibly between different scripting engines. * How to inline SVG insofar as IE is capable of this (optional). * How to do all this in a way that will work even if MS IE changes their architecture because of the Eolas lawsuit. I welcome any clues about any of the above. The Corel and Mobiform viewers all had at least some of the above, and though at least Corel is dead, maybe we can find someone from those fronts with the proper knowledge. Regards- -Doug Jeff Schiller wrote: We can't rely on Microsoft, just like we shouldn't have been comfortable relying on Adobe, to do the right thing and implement native support for SVG for free. There are business considerations that will always take priority. Even if they do it, I fear compatibility issues - their browser engine is still the worst of the major browsers out there. So where are the open source, cross-platform SVG 1.1 viewers ? What about taking the Mozilla base and developing a browser plugin from that for only SVG support? What about candidates like AmanithVG and Renesis for a SVG 1.2 viewer? Let's get a list of all the candidate open-source projects and contribute so that they flourish before Jan 2008. And I agree with Jon - praise to Adobe for past support, but I cry foul to MacroAdobe for this distinctly hostile gesture towards this development community. They know there is no suitable replacement for IE as of today. Jeff - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [svg-developers] Is Adobe's greed clearing the way for XAML
Hi Geoffrey, I agree with your analysis. Here's my soapbox for what its worth :) Speaking honestly as a small independent developer, without an IE option sticking with SVG is not really feasible, switching to Flash narrows options and now also has a questionable life expectancy, while switching to WFS-XAML is a painful but compelling opportunity to survive. In the long run rich client technology paves the way for web services. MS is pulling out all stops to own the rich client technology base. This could give them the competitive advantage in web services analogous to OS ownership in the desktop hay day. MS would love to use their waning OS advantage to leverage into rich client ownership before the window of opportunity closes. MS is primarily concerned about the next generation struggle for web services ownership, think Google. Though, I still wonder if the XML factor reduces any competitive leverage MS hopes to gain. Adobe should be highly commended for their early and extensive support of SVG, but their long term survival is on the line. From their point of view SVG was only a competitive advantage against Macromedia and they found a different way to counter that threat. Adobe's ceiling is the competitive world of MS and Google as they struggle for ownership of web services. Vista/WFS-XAML is projected to be available about the same time as ASV EOL (but then Bill has been wrong before). Alternative native browser SVG is still not up to ASV capabilities and without some kind of IE option, native SVG only reaches a small percentage of users. WFS-XAML will eventually be available to the 80%+ of users on MS IE. Also, WFS-XAML supercedes SVG in some critical ways: 3D, built in gui widgets, hardware graphics speed, C#/CLR in place of EcmaScript. XAML will be a better rich client base than SVG 1.2. Where is SVG 2.0 with 3D vectors, a built in set of gui widgets,...? If MS is wrong about Vista release dates, there could be a gap for rich client web development for IE between the EOL of ASV and the release of WFS-XAML. An overlapping download option for ASV is the best solution from a web developer perspective. From an Adobe perspective, attempting to force svg rich client development to move to Flash before XAML appears makes some sense. However, closing down ASV so quickly may have little effect other than alienating a small community of developers and raising nagging questions about Flash's viability as well. As it turns out in 2 years Adobe/Flash could be gasping for air and Flash developers should take note what Adobe policy has been toward the SVG developer community. I imagine Adobe's bottom line strategic concern is creation tools not rendering. Flash developers must likely plan for a similar migration to XAML in just a few more years. The Open source Mozilla community will also be forced to counter WFS-XAML in some way in order to keep from being leapfrogged and then marginalize. My guess is that XAML rendering in FF will quickly trump further development of SVG rendering unless MS patents force some kind of enhanced SVG. Otherwise MS creates a whole new rich client internet which is off limits to the open source browser world. However you look at it, MS is in the driver's seat in 2007. If they choose to transcode image/svg+xml to XAML, they could with very little effort. But why would they support image/svg+xml at all? The Adobe/Flash world and the FF,Opera/SVG world will both be playing catch up technologically. Ironically XML based rich clients are here to stay whether XAML or SVG. Thin clients and fat clients look out! rkgeorge -Original Message- From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Geoffrey Swenson Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2006 1:32 AM To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com Subject: [svg-developers] Is Adobe's greed clearing the way for XAML By abandoning SVG, the net effect for us and Adobe is that XAML is going to be the way to go. Unless Adobe massively changes Flash to have a decent editor and improves the ease of programming I just don't see it gaining a lot of developer interest. Why should I pay almost $1000 for Flash and its tedious, user-hostile graphic editor, the non-intuitive and overly animation-focused timeline editor, when the same $1000 buys me the MSDN library including XAML that was designed from the ground up to be a programmable graphical environment? If you don't have $1000 for MSDN, just Notepad and a good XAML book online help should get you a long ways, especially for web-based stuff. Microsoft can leverage their position as the largest software company to make XAML a very complete solution in a way that nobody else can manage. I'm sure that it will be, as usual, somewhat overdeveloped and bloated, but since it is part of the graphical underpinnings of Vista, they must have got it to work, unlike - for
Re: [svg-developers] Re: Announcement: Adobe to Discontinue Adobe SVG Viewer
On 9/7/06 1:19 PM, Jeff Schiller wrote: So where are the open source, cross-platform SVG 1.1 viewers ? What about taking the Mozilla base and developing a browser plugin from that for only SVG support? What about candidates like AmanithVG and Renesis for a SVG 1.2 viewer? Let's get a list of all the candidate open-source projects and contribute so that they flourish before Jan 2008. The SVG code in mozilla is tied closely with the rest of the layout engine, so you need to take pretty much the whole Gecko engine if you wanted to do something like this. There is already code in the mozilla tree that turns it into an ActiveX Control which could serve as a starting point. http://www.iol.ie/~locka/mozilla/control.htm - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [svg-developers] Re: Changing stroke color
I figured it out:
function changeStrokeColor(e)
{
document.getElementById(MSSA).setAttribute('style', e == MSSA ?
'font-family:Verdana;font-size:1.4px;stroke-width:0.015px;fill:#E1;stroke:#E1;stroke-linecap:round;stroke-linejoin:round'
: 'font-family:Verdana;font-size:1.4px;stroke-width:0.015px
;fill:gray;stroke:gray;stroke-linecap:round;stroke-linejoin:round');
//document.getElementById(MSSA).setAttribute('style',
'font-family:Verdana;font-size:1.4px;stroke-width:0.015px
;fill:red;stroke:red;stroke-linecap:round;stroke-linejoin:round');
document.getElementById(BFRJAM).setAttribute('style', e == BFRJAM ?
'font-family:Verdana;font-size:1.4px;stroke-width:0.015px;fill:#E1;stroke:#E1;stroke-linecap:round;stroke-linejoin:round'
: 'font-family:Verdana;font-size:1.4px;stroke-width:0.015px
;fill:gray;stroke:gray;stroke-linecap:round;stroke-linejoin:round');
//document.getElementById(BFRJAM).setAttribute('style',
'font-family:Verdana;font-size:1.4px;stroke-width:0.015px
;fill:red;stroke:red;stroke-linecap:round;stroke-linejoin:round');
}
Thanks for your help Martin.
kmartin7
On 9/7/06, Kurt Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Here is my dilemma. I have pasted a portion of the code to show what I
have:
***
?xml version=1.0 encoding=UTF-16?
svg version=1.1 onload=InitContextMenu()
preserveAspectRatio=xMidYMid
xml:space=preserve viewBox=-0.317924 -8.41906 14.3537 8.07632
width=100% height=100% xmlns:svg=http://www.w3.org/2000/svg; xmlns=
http://www.w3.org/2000/svg; xmlns:cs=http://www.aftercad.com/cad;
xmlns:xlink=http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink;
g id=MSSA style=font-family:Verdana;font-size:1.4px;stroke-width:
0.015px
;fill:#66;;fill-rule:nonzero;stroke:gray;stroke-linecap:round;stroke-linejoin:round
set attributeName=stroke to=#E1 begin=click end=mouseup+0.1
/
set attributeName=fill to=#E1 begin=click end=mouseup+0.1 /
set attributeName=stroke-width to=0.015px begin=click end=click
/
set attributeName=stroke to=#FFCC00 begin=mouseover end=mouseout
/
set attributeName=fill to=#FFCC00 begin=mouseover end=mouseout /
set attributeName=stroke-width to=0.0175px begin=mouseover
end=mouseout /
text transform=matrix(0.0625 0 0 0.0625 2.4181 -6.79844)MSSA/text
polyline points=2.35757679,-6.7587878 2.89307391,-6.7587878 /
polyline points=2.89169731,-6.75798446 2.79984604,-6.80844657 /
polyline points=2.89169731,-6.75798442 2.79984604,-6.7075223 /
polyline points=2.80198692,-6.80727039 2.80198692,-6.80454195 /
polyline points=2.88609042,-6.76106483 2.88609042,-6.75490405 /
polyline points=2.88048351,-6.7641452 2.88048351,-6.75182368 /
polyline points=2.8748766,-6.76722558 2.8748766,-6.7487433 /
polyline points=2.86926969,-6.77030596 2.86926969,-6.74566292 /
polyline points=2.86366278,-6.77338633 2.86366278,-6.74258255 /
polyline points=2.85805587,-6.77646671 2.85805587,-6.73950217 /
polyline points=2.85244896,-6.77954709 2.85244896,-6.73642179 /
polyline points=2.84684205,-6.78262746 2.84684205,-6.73334141 /
polyline points=2.84123514,-6.78570784 2.84123514,-6.73026103 /
polyline points=2.83562823,-6.78878822 2.83562823,-6.72718066 /
polyline points=2.83002133,-6.79186859 2.83002133,-6.72410029 /
polyline points=2.82441445,-6.79494895 2.82441445,-6.72101993 /
polyline points=2.81880757,-6.79802931 2.81880757,-6.71793956 /
polyline points=2.81320068,-6.80110967 2.81320068,-6.7148592 /
polyline points=2.8075938,-6.80419003 2.8075938,-6.79163024 /
polyline points=2.80198692,-6.71142694 2.80198692,-6.70869848 /
polyline points=2.8075938,-6.72433865 2.8075938,-6.71177884 /
path d=M2.8133673,-6.75798445 A0.100924331,0.100924331 0 0,0 2.79984602
,-
6.80844659 /
path d=M2.79984602,-6.7075223 A0.100924331,0.100924331 29.874 0,0
2.8133673,-6.75798442 /
/g
g id=BFRJAM style=font-family:Verdana;font-size:1.4px;stroke-width:
0.015px
;fill:#66;;fill-rule:nonzero;stroke:gray;stroke-linecap:round;stroke-linejoin:round
set attributeName=stroke to=#E1 begin=click end=mouseup+0.1
/
set attributeName=fill to=#E1 begin=click end=mouseup+0.1 /
set attributeName=stroke-width to=0.015px begin=click end=click
/
set attributeName=stroke to=#FFCC00 begin=mouseover end=mouseout
/
set attributeName=fill to=#FFCC00 begin=mouseover end=mouseout /
set attributeName=stroke-width to=0.0175px begin=mouseover
end=mouseout /
text transform=matrix(0.0625 0 0 0.0625 3.20609 -4.51071)DEMO_D/text
polyline points=3.04783893,-4.47718498 3.9368703,-4.47718498 /
polyline points=3.9353936,-4.47694294 3.84354233,-4.52740505 /
polyline points=3.9353936,-4.47694289 3.84354233,-4.42648078 /
polyline points=3.84568322,-4.52622887 3.84568322,-4.52350042 /
polyline points=3.92978672,-4.4800233 3.92978672,-4.47386253 /
polyline points=3.9241798,-4.48310367 3.9241798,-4.47078215 /
polyline points=3.91857289,-4.48618406
[svg-developers] Re: Announcement: Adobe to Discontinue Adobe SVG Viewer
Hi Marc, I think you misunderstood me. I was replying to Margie about how best to encourage Adobe to change their policy. I agree that Adobe isn't likely to rethink their commitment to Flash/Flex, but they might rethink some other things, such as making ASV available for downloads after 1/1/08, supporting ASV beyond 1/1/07, and/or donating the source code to open source. Jon --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, m_verstaen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jon, Do you seriously believe that Adobe will change its plans and modify the course of Flash/Flex to please one or two companies with no impact on Adobe's business? Come on Jon, among all people you should know how Adobe misslead everybody in the SVG community during the past few years. Giving people hope that Adobe can still be helpful is only helping killing SVG at this point. And I know this is not what you want. Marc --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, Jon Ferraiolo jferrai@ wrote: Margie, Thanks for the kind words. In terms of possible next steps, I suggest finding a way to express your point of view (professionally, of course) within a blog or a forum that Adobe would read. (I don't know the degree to which Adobe monitors this forum and I am not sure what other industry forums they read these days.) An important thing would be to give detailed information about the business impact that you face. Adobe is likely to be more receptive if a company speaks up and talks about any specific difficulties that they will face and what Adobe could do about relieving those difficulties. Adobe is less likely to listen to people who simply get up on their soapbox. (I already did that.) Jon Jon Ferraiolo jferrai@ Web Architect, Emerging Technologies IBM, Menlo Park, CA Mobile: +1-650-464-7817 Marjorie Roswell mroswell@ To om svg- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: cc svg- [EMAIL PROTECTED] hoogroups.com Subject Re: [svg-developers] Re: Announcement: Adobe to Discontinue 09/07/2006 05:03 Adobe SVG Viewer AM Please respond to svg- [EMAIL PROTECTED] hoogroups.com Jon, That was beautifully written. Thank you for your work and advocacy in the SVG community. What's the next step for our community to take, regarding items 3, 4, and 5? Margie On 9/6/06, jon_ferraiolo jferrai@ wrote: Hi Pat, Now that I am a member of the community and no longer an employee of Adobe, here is my reaction: (1) First off, I believe that Adobe deserves a great amount of appreciation for their contributions to SVG and the open standards world for their activities in previous years. Adobe provided a high-quality free implementation of an SVG viewer at large expense. (Pat, you know this perhaps better than anyone.) Adobe also has provided (and presumably will continue to provide) excellent support for SVG in some of its products, particularly Illustrator. Adobe has also made large contributions within the standards community on SVG. (2) It is understandable that at some point Adobe would announce the end-of-life for Adobe SVG Viewer. Since the Macromedia acquisition (at least, perhaps even earlier), it is clear that Adobe doesn't consider the SVG viewer to be strategic. Also, browsers are adding SVG support natively. (3) HOWEVER, I believe that some of the details regarding this end-of-life announcement are unacceptable to the community and not in Adobe's own best interests. To me, it is OK to stop support (presumably developer support and security fixes) on Adobe SVG Viewer in the relative near-term, but instead of giving four months
[svg-developers] Re: Announcement: Adobe to Discontinue Adobe SVG Viewer
Jon, I believe Adobe will consider extending the support and availability of the SVG viewer as a potential problem (even if minor) for Flash and Flex. Why would they maintain a free product which is perceived as a competitor to their paying product? About the possibility to open source the viewer, you obviously know more than I do about this code. I was under the impression that the font rendering technology and the Bezier rendering was linked to other technologies used and sold by Adobe. If this is the case, is it reasonnable to think that Adobe will offer for free part of its intellectual property to help a competing technology? Marc --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, jon_ferraiolo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Marc, I think you misunderstood me. I was replying to Margie about how best to encourage Adobe to change their policy. I agree that Adobe isn't likely to rethink their commitment to Flash/Flex, but they might rethink some other things, such as making ASV available for downloads after 1/1/08, supporting ASV beyond 1/1/07, and/or donating the source code to open source. Jon --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, m_verstaen marc@ wrote: Jon, Do you seriously believe that Adobe will change its plans and modify the course of Flash/Flex to please one or two companies with no impact on Adobe's business? Come on Jon, among all people you should know how Adobe misslead everybody in the SVG community during the past few years. Giving people hope that Adobe can still be helpful is only helping killing SVG at this point. And I know this is not what you want. Marc --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, Jon Ferraiolo jferrai@ wrote: Margie, Thanks for the kind words. In terms of possible next steps, I suggest finding a way to express your point of view (professionally, of course) within a blog or a forum that Adobe would read. (I don't know the degree to which Adobe monitors this forum and I am not sure what other industry forums they read these days.) An important thing would be to give detailed information about the business impact that you face. Adobe is likely to be more receptive if a company speaks up and talks about any specific difficulties that they will face and what Adobe could do about relieving those difficulties. Adobe is less likely to listen to people who simply get up on their soapbox. (I already did that.) Jon Jon Ferraiolo jferrai@ Web Architect, Emerging Technologies IBM, Menlo Park, CA Mobile: +1-650-464-7817 Marjorie Roswell mroswell@ To om svg- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: cc svg- [EMAIL PROTECTED] hoogroups.com Subject Re: [svg-developers] Re: Announcement: Adobe to Discontinue 09/07/2006 05:03 Adobe SVG Viewer AM Please respond to svg- [EMAIL PROTECTED] hoogroups.com Jon, That was beautifully written. Thank you for your work and advocacy in the SVG community. What's the next step for our community to take, regarding items 3, 4, and 5? Margie On 9/6/06, jon_ferraiolo jferrai@ wrote: Hi Pat, Now that I am a member of the community and no longer an employee of Adobe, here is my reaction: (1) First off, I believe that Adobe deserves a great amount of appreciation for their contributions to SVG and the open standards world for their activities in previous years. Adobe provided a high-quality free implementation of an SVG viewer at large expense. (Pat, you know this perhaps better than anyone.) Adobe also has provided
[svg-developers] Re: Is Adobe's greed clearing the way for XAML
So much for W3C establishd standards. How can you just walk away from this on such short notice? How can M$ and Adobe be part of the W3C when they do not adhere to what the group is all about? SVG has been around for nearly five years and is not slated to be part of IE7 - sad... --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, Randy George [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Geoffrey, I agree with your analysis. Here's my soapbox for what its worth :) Speaking honestly as a small independent developer, without an IE option sticking with SVG is not really feasible, switching to Flash narrows options and now also has a questionable life expectancy, while switching to WFS-XAML is a painful but compelling opportunity to survive. In the long run rich client technology paves the way for web services. MS is pulling out all stops to own the rich client technology base. This could give them the competitive advantage in web services analogous to OS ownership in the desktop hay day. MS would love to use their waning OS advantage to leverage into rich client ownership before the window of opportunity closes. MS is primarily concerned about the next generation struggle for web services ownership, think Google. Though, I still wonder if the XML factor reduces any competitive leverage MS hopes to gain. Adobe should be highly commended for their early and extensive support of SVG, but their long term survival is on the line. From their point of view SVG was only a competitive advantage against Macromedia and they found a different way to counter that threat. Adobe's ceiling is the competitive world of MS and Google as they struggle for ownership of web services. Vista/WFS-XAML is projected to be available about the same time as ASV EOL (but then Bill has been wrong before). Alternative native browser SVG is still not up to ASV capabilities and without some kind of IE option, native SVG only reaches a small percentage of users. WFS-XAML will eventually be available to the 80%+ of users on MS IE. Also, WFS- XAML supercedes SVG in some critical ways: 3D, built in gui widgets, hardware graphics speed, C#/CLR in place of EcmaScript. XAML will be a better rich client base than SVG 1.2. Where is SVG 2.0 with 3D vectors, a built in set of gui widgets,...? If MS is wrong about Vista release dates, there could be a gap for rich client web development for IE between the EOL of ASV and the release of WFS-XAML. An overlapping download option for ASV is the best solution from a web developer perspective. From an Adobe perspective, attempting to force svg rich client development to move to Flash before XAML appears makes some sense. However, closing down ASV so quickly may have little effect other than alienating a small community of developers and raising nagging questions about Flash's viability as well. As it turns out in 2 years Adobe/Flash could be gasping for air and Flash developers should take note what Adobe policy has been toward the SVG developer community. I imagine Adobe's bottom line strategic concern is creation tools not rendering. Flash developers must likely plan for a similar migration to XAML in just a few more years. The Open source Mozilla community will also be forced to counter WFS-XAML in some way in order to keep from being leapfrogged and then marginalize. My guess is that XAML rendering in FF will quickly trump further development of SVG rendering unless MS patents force some kind of enhanced SVG. Otherwise MS creates a whole new rich client internet which is off limits to the open source browser world. However you look at it, MS is in the driver's seat in 2007. If they choose to transcode image/svg+xml to XAML, they could with very little effort. But why would they support image/svg+xml at all? The Adobe/Flash world and the FF,Opera/SVG world will both be playing catch up technologically. Ironically XML based rich clients are here to stay whether XAML or SVG. Thin clients and fat clients look out! rkgeorge -Original Message- From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:svg- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Geoffrey Swenson Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2006 1:32 AM To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com Subject: [svg-developers] Is Adobe's greed clearing the way for XAML By abandoning SVG, the net effect for us and Adobe is that XAML is going to be the way to go. Unless Adobe massively changes Flash to have a decent editor and improves the ease of programming I just don't see it gaining a lot of developer interest. Why should I pay almost $1000 for Flash and its tedious, user-hostile graphic editor, the non-intuitive and overly animation- focused timeline editor, when the same $1000 buys me the MSDN library including XAML that was designed from the ground up to be a programmable graphical
Re: [svg-developers] Is Adobe's greed clearing the way for XAML
Hi folks, I want to alert the SVG community to a variation on SVG that might prove interesting over the long haul for interactive vector graphics. First, a bit of background. I left Adobe in May to join IBM where I am leading a new industry initiative, the OpenAjax Alliance. This alliance represents the collaborative work of 50+ organizations in the Ajax commmunity, with members including IBM, Sun, Google, Mozilla, Opera, Adobe, Oracle, SAP, BEA, TIBCO, SoftwareAG, Eclipse Foundation, Intel, Novell, RedHat, Borland, Dojo Foundation, Zimbra (leaders behind the Kabuki toolkit), Zend (the PHP company), Backbase, Jackbe, Icesoft, Laszlo, and Nexaweb.The chief goal is to accelerate customer success with Ajax by promoting a customer's ability to mix and match solutions from Ajax technology providers and by helping to drive the future of the Ajax ecosystem. (Unfortunately, our web site, www.openajaxalliance.org, hasn't launched yet due to the need for approvals by appropriate committees. It should launch sometime this month. In the meantime, if you want more information on OpenAjax, send me a private email.) The term Ajax has both a narrow and broad meaning. The original (narrow) meaning of AJAX was about leveraging XMLHttpRequest to provide the low-level technology in order to achieve partial screen updates and thus a smoother user experience for HTML applications. Nowadays, the term Ajax often refers to the broader notion of delivering rich user experiences leveraging the native features found within web browsers. Ajax frameworks include Ajax user interface toolkits (such as Dojo or Script.aculo.us) , Ajax IDEs (such as Eclipse and Netbeans), and server products such as the Google WebToolkit.. Using this broader definition of Ajax, Ajax technology providers deliver an Ajax engine that takes a cross-platform, browser-independent definition of the web application and then performs an Ajax transformation which produces appropriate HTML+JavaScript (and sometimes SVG!) to produce the desired rich user experience. One particularly interesting development on the Ajax front is recent addition of 2D graphics support within some commercial products and open source projects. One such development is the Dojo2D project (http://dojo.jot.com/Dojo2D), which uses a subset of SVG as input. On browsers that support SVG, Dojo2D passes the SVG through to the browser. On IE, it transcodes the SVG into VML. From what I hear, a first version of Dojo2D is likely to ship within an upcoming release of the Dojo toolkit sometime soon (probably before the year is out). Mid-release downloads for the open source tree of course are available today. Google does something similar today with Google Maps (i.e., SVG on Firefox and VML on IE). Other announcements in Ajax/SVG space are forthcoming. Therefore, developers who want 2D graphics and want to realize the benefits of open standards (e.g., cross-platform support and multiple suppliers) should key on eye out on Ajax toolkits that offer SVG support. Jon Jon Ferraiolo [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web Architect, Emerging Technologies IBM, Menlo Park, CA Doug Schepers [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Sent by: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc hoogroups.com Subject Re: [svg-developers] Is Adobe's 09/07/2006 08:33 greed clearing the way for XAML AM Please respond to [EMAIL PROTECTED] hoogroups.com Hi, Geoffrey- Yes, I for one welcome our new vector format overlords. ;) I do agree that Flash is a little underpowered in the programming side (from what I've seen). But XAML is way too overworked. I think SVG is in a sweet spot between the two, and it's based on standards that are widely implemented. We don't know yet how SVG in IE will play out, but I'm not ready to jump ship yet. Regards- -Doug Geoffrey Swenson wrote: By abandoning SVG, the net effect for us and Adobe is that XAML is going
Re: [svg-developers] Re: Announcement: Adobe to Discontinue Adobe SVG Viewer
Hi, Jon- jon_ferraiolo wrote: Hi Marc, I think you misunderstood me. I was replying to Margie about how best to encourage Adobe to change their policy. I agree that Adobe isn't likely to rethink their commitment to Flash/Flex, but they might rethink some other things, such as making ASV available for downloads after 1/1/08, supporting ASV beyond 1/1/07, and/or donating the source code to open source. Jon, you are an optimist... and I mean that in a good way. I admire your propensity for finding solutions rather than dwelling on the problem. I think the ideal case would be for Adobe to release the source for the non-proprietary parts of the plug-in (I have no hope that they would release the graphics engine). This would give us a boost in creating a replacement, and would relieve them of their moral responsibility. Failing that, I like your suggestion of lengthening their terms by a reasonable time... say, a year each. Regards- -Doug - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [svg-developers] Re: Announcement: Adobe to Discontinue Adobe SVG Viewer
On 9/7/06, Doug Schepers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Jon- jon_ferraiolo wrote: Hi Marc, I think you misunderstood me. I was replying to Margie about how best to encourage Adobe to change their policy. I agree that Adobe isn't likely to rethink their commitment to Flash/Flex, but they might rethink some other things, such as making ASV available for downloads after 1/1/08, supporting ASV beyond 1/1/07, and/or donating the source code to open source. Jon, you are an optimist... and I mean that in a good way. I admire your propensity for finding solutions rather than dwelling on the problem. I think the ideal case would be for Adobe to release the source for the non-proprietary parts of the plug-in (I have no hope that they would release the graphics engine). This would give us a boost in creating a replacement, and would relieve them of their moral responsibility. Failing that, I like your suggestion of lengthening their terms by a reasonable time... say, a year each. Regards- -Doug Hi All. As you know I have an SVG Rendering it is in either Java or C++; it is implemented in my ZipProtocol But this not the point I like to make. - Not counting mine there are at least two other open source graphic engine the Cato's whic is using by FF and the Batik's. (so really you don't need Adobe's). - The text rendering one can use Freestyle's engine. (I have using that and able to have the text to be 'transformed' the way it requested to do). - Assuming that there is an SVG graphic engine (I may consider donate the specialy disigned for SVG) . My question are:.- even that ADOBE releases the Graphical engine source code. Who is hing to be the head of the effort? who own that effort? Where it find the fund at least to pay for those who work full time? or IF someone agrees to put up the development money (as an investment) then what is the plan for us to pay back?. I think this is the time for us to think of an Solution to have SVG work on IE.ADOBE-LESS. btw: there are always a work around. Using combination of javascript+applet or javascript + custom protocol. Cheers. -- Phi - Tran Hugely increase your speed, saving your band-width with ZipProtocol plus crystal clear SVG Rendering image at HTTP://oneplusplus.com Note: Iam waiting for the outcome of IE7 for I can release the Zipprotocol. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [svg-developers] Is Adobe's greed clearing the way for XAML
You can get visual studio by itself (without MSDN) for about $500. But it sure is nice having access to all of that other stuff on MSDN. I will check out the Flex2 stuff and see what I think about it, though. However, it is going to take some getting over the bad taste of Flash. amy people have done really neat things with it, but I have never been able to get past the utterly irritating graphics editor/timeline interfaces Macromedia saddled it with to spend anywhere near as much time on Flash as I have with SVG. I liked the way SVG was programmable and interactive with the HTML container Javascript. I don't want to have my code locked up inside Flash where it it is so much harder to deal with page elements. Geoffrey Swenson wrote: Why should I pay almost $1000 for Flash and its tedious, user-hostile graphic editor, the non-intuitive and overly animation-focused timeline editor, when the same $1000 buys me the MSDN library including XAML that was designed from the ground up to be a programmable graphical environment? For what it's worth, you can create high-performance SWF for free, within an XML development environment, with Adobe Flex 2: http://www.adobe.com/products/flex/ http://weblogs.macromedia.com/mesh/archives/2006/03/flex_is_free.html (The optional Eclipse-based IDE with visualization, Flex Builder, is available for half the price you cite... currently Windows-only, but Adobe is contributing to the Eclipse project to make the Mac version more stable, and these Eclipse changes may make other development platforms possible as well. There is also an optional Flex Data Services* for persistent connection and data synchronization, whether across sessions or across computers, which is free for small-scale use, but per-CPU for larger-scale work. The framework, documentation and compiler, however, all offer a zero-cost way to make data-fed interactive graphics for the web today.) * http://www.adobe.com/products/flex/productinfo/faq/#item-25 For deployment, I have absolutely no idea when Vista-style XAML or its XP/other subsets will be widely adopted on consumer machines, but I do know that Flash Player 8 has reached 90+% consumer viewability within its first twelve months, and that Flash Player 9 (the minimum runtime for Flex 2 work) is being successfully installed at an even greater rate. (ie, it's easy to choose your own authoring environment; harder to have your work perform predictability on the world's varied machines... for practical deployment it's no-contest.) For the news about Adobe SVG Viewer, I first learned of it here on the mailing list myself, and am summarizing and highlighting posts here and on the web for other staffers. Your words will be heard. jd -- John Dowdell . Adobe Developer Support . San Francisco CA USA Weblog: http://weblogs.macromedia.com/jd Aggregator: http://weblogs.macromedia.com/mxna Technotes: http://www.macromedia.com/support/ Spam killed my private email -- public record is best, thanks. Geoff Swenson [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [svg-developers] Re: Is Adobe's greed clearing the way for XAML
Guy, I have been biting my tongue, but your email was too provocative. Generally, I agree with your points. My additional comments: * The open source phenomenon is huge. The same phenomenon that transformed the server world (what with LAMP) is starting to affect the client world. Although the threat isn't imminent, over the next few years MS is in danger of losing control over the browsing experience to Mozilla and Safari, both of which are open source and both of which implement W3C standards successfully. Firefox's market share is likely to accelerate in the short-term as Enterprises discover its merits as a strong platform for application development and begin to require its usage instead of IE for Enterprise applications. This will result in larger numbers of people who start to feel comfortable with Firefox (because of being forced to use it at their company) and therefore comfortable in abandoning IE for browsing the Web. (Note that Google is investing a ton of money in Mozilla these days. Microsoft is very much aware of this.) * As a result, Microsoft will be forced to re-embrace standards in order to stop the loss of market share and reclaim control over their own Windows platform. Microsoft will be forced to do whatever it takes in order to push Firefox's (and Safari's) market shares down below 5% once again, and (unfortunately for them) in today's world that includes world-class support for open standards. And, thanks to the leadership at Firefox, Safari, and Opera, SVG has become a requirement. Microsoft has been aware of all of this for a long time. Therefore, I expect to see SVG support in IE betas by the end of 2007. * I would be hugely surprised if Microsoft followed Adobe's lead and announced VML end-of-life in the same (unacceptable) manner as Adobe. Microsoft is considerably more sensitive to supporting their existing community of developers. When VML is EOL'd, Microsoft will give something like a 5-year window before VML quits working with new versions of IE. Or at least that what my personal crystal ball shows. Jon Guy Morton [EMAIL PROTECTED] auTo Sent by: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc hoogroups.com Subject Re: [svg-developers] Re: Is Adobe's 09/07/2006 04:20 greed clearing the way for XAML PM Please respond to [EMAIL PROTECTED] hoogroups.com Yes, it gives the lie to the lip service they give to standards adherence. M$ in particular only support those standards that they feel benefit their business (like someone else said, there's no other reason for them to release software for free). Honestly, how hard would it have been from MS to enable native SVG support, given that they already had VML, which has been in IE since v5? Should we really believe their weasel words about it coming in IE8? I don't think so! I'm now wondering how long it will be before MS announces the EOL for VML, as a way of trying to screw projects like http://dojo.jot.com/ Dojo2D and push everyone towards using XAML. Personally, I'd be VERY reluctant to start porting apps to XAML, given that at the moment even M$ are not committing to it being available on anything but Vista - that's going to be a pretty limited market for a long time, even putting to one side that it leaves any non-windows users out in the cold. This might be fine for corporate applications, but wake up people, there's plenty of users moving away from Windows these days! From my web logs I'd say only 75% of users are using IE now - 25% of users is a pretty big chunk to lose by building your app using IE/Windows-dependent technology! A cornerstone of the web is that it be accessible to all - this means it must be cross-platform compatible. MS has never really wanted this to be so, but it is. They'll keep trying to push a windows-centric world view on the world, but i believe ultimately this must fail. The web (and the
[svg-developers] Re: how to get every item of path element
nobody understand? --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, jiang_liuchang [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In Js Language,i use the following code,but svgList has no value! var pathElement=svgDocument.getElementById(_Pie2); var svgList=pathElement.pathSegList; i want to know whether the dom interface can use in javascript? thanks all - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [svg-developers] Re: how to get every item of path element
Yes, you can access the DOM via javascript. What is pathSegList? On 9/7/06, jiang_liuchang [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: nobody understand? --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com svg-developers%40yahoogroups.com, jiang_liuchang [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In Js Language,i use the following code,but svgList has no value! var pathElement=svgDocument.getElementById(_Pie2); var svgList=pathElement.pathSegList; i want to know whether the dom interface can use in javascript? thanks all -- Kurt D. Martin 405.343.7116 (c) 405.759.3075 (h) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[svg-developers] Re: Is Adobe's greed clearing the way for XAML
Actually Jon, I agree with both of your recent points... you stole my thunder on both accounts! ;) 1) Watch out for Dojo 0.4 for the cross-browser 2D graphics API (VML on IE and SVG everywhere else). I've been hearing good things, anyway. 2) Watch for IE8+ (i.e. something after IE7) to support SVG. Chris Wilson has been pretty public about the need to support a core set of web standards, of which he considers SVG a part of. 3) I'll mention a third point: OpenLaszlo has been working hard on expanding its offerings to support multiple compilation targets. By the end of the year they will support compiling to DHTML as well as Flash. There is already some internal work on doing the same for SVG (though I suspect that SVG support could be rolled into DHTML at some point). Anyway, it's high time we started moving up the stack anyway and getting out of coding applications with a set of cobbled-together HTML, JS, SVG, XML, CSS files... In the meantime though, I really think an open source SVG 1.1 browser plugin is a worthwhile effort, simply because you can never have too many baskets for your eggs. Regards, Jeff --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, Jon Ferraiolo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Guy, I have been biting my tongue, but your email was too provocative. Generally, I agree with your points. My additional comments: * The open source phenomenon is huge. The same phenomenon that transformed the server world (what with LAMP) is starting to affect the client world. Although the threat isn't imminent, over the next few years MS is in danger of losing control over the browsing experience to Mozilla and Safari, both of which are open source and both of which implement W3C standards successfully. Firefox's market share is likely to accelerate in the short-term as Enterprises discover its merits as a strong platform for application development and begin to require its usage instead of IE for Enterprise applications. This will result in larger numbers of people who start to feel comfortable with Firefox (because of being forced to use it at their company) and therefore comfortable in abandoning IE for browsing the Web. (Note that Google is investing a ton of money in Mozilla these days. Microsoft is very much aware of this.) * As a result, Microsoft will be forced to re-embrace standards in order to stop the loss of market share and reclaim control over their own Windows platform. Microsoft will be forced to do whatever it takes in order to push Firefox's (and Safari's) market shares down below 5% once again, and (unfortunately for them) in today's world that includes world-class support for open standards. And, thanks to the leadership at Firefox, Safari, and Opera, SVG has become a requirement. Microsoft has been aware of all of this for a long time. Therefore, I expect to see SVG support in IE betas by the end of 2007. * I would be hugely surprised if Microsoft followed Adobe's lead and announced VML end-of-life in the same (unacceptable) manner as Adobe. Microsoft is considerably more sensitive to supporting their existing community of developers. When VML is EOL'd, Microsoft will give something like a 5-year window before VML quits working with new versions of IE. Or at least that what my personal crystal ball shows. Jon Guy Morton [EMAIL PROTECTED] auTo Sent by: svg- [EMAIL PROTECTED] svg- [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc hoogroups.com Subject Re: [svg-developers] Re: Is Adobe's 09/07/2006 04:20 greed clearing the way for XAML PM Please respond to svg- [EMAIL PROTECTED] hoogroups.com Yes, it gives the lie to the lip service they give to standards adherence. M$ in particular only support those standards that they feel benefit their business (like someone else said, there's no other reason for
RE: [svg-developers] Re: Is Adobe's greed clearing the way for XAML
Microsoft is not going to be abandoning XAML any time soon. XAML is the graphics engine format for Vista. Dialog boxes, and graphical applications can be designed interactively in XAML tools to be included with the next version of Visual Studio and then compiled and/or interpreted to produce highly interactive graphics and forms without having to so much tedious work with low-level objects as the current GDI currently requires. They are abandoning hostile, clunky Windows GDI interfaces based on hardware limitations and programming concepts of the Windows 1.0 days. The graphics interfaces in Windows have grown by accretion ever since probably in a rather haphazard way. Windows 3.x, for example, still used bitmap fonts exclusively. Adobe did a marvelous hack with ATM to trick Windows 95, creating bitmap fonts on the fly to simulate fully scalable fonts. If they hadn't done that I would have probably switched to a Mac eventually. Until Adobe and M$ made peace in the font wars, Windows NT suffered with a lack of support for scalable fonts until Windows 2000, which not coincidentally, was the first version of NT that got broad consumer acceptance. VML is not much of anything BTW. It was just a quick and dirty demo at best. If anyone has based any significant work on such an insubstantial foundation, they hopefully have written their code so that the interfaces to the VML are in low level objects that can be easily migrated to SVG or XAML VML isn't really supported very well at all in current versions of IE in any case. I gave up when much of Microsoft's own demo code didn't even run correctly in IE6. The feature set was also so poor that my project would have had to put up with some extreme limitations if I had implemented it in VML. Of course Microsoft is going to try to make XAML the new standard. That is how these things sometimes work. Adobe is trying to do their thing too, but with fewer resources. Perhaps this makes Adobe more willing to cooperate with open source efforts and in the process find some sort of synergy that competes well with XAML. However, Microsoft has spent vast amounts of their proprietary largess on XAML and a whole bevy of support tools in Vista; the only thing that can beat it is some simpler but more elegant solution if they can find it. _ From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Guy Morton Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2006 4:21 PM To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [svg-developers] Re: Is Adobe's greed clearing the way for XAML Yes, it gives the lie to the lip service they give to standards adherence. M$ in particular only support those standards that they feel benefit their business (like someone else said, there's no other reason for them to release software for free). Honestly, how hard would it have been from MS to enable native SVG support, given that they already had VML, which has been in IE since v5? Should we really believe their weasel words about it coming in IE8? I don't think so! I'm now wondering how long it will be before MS announces the EOL for VML, as a way of trying to screw projects like http://dojo. http://dojo.jot.com/ jot.com/ Dojo2D and push everyone towards using XAML. Personally, I'd be VERY reluctant to start porting apps to XAML, given that at the moment even M$ are not committing to it being available on anything but Vista - that's going to be a pretty limited market for a long time, even putting to one side that it leaves any non-windows users out in the cold. This might be fine for corporate applications, but wake up people, there's plenty of users moving away from Windows these days! From my web logs I'd say only 75% of users are using IE now - 25% of users is a pretty big chunk to lose by building your app using IE/Windows-dependent technology! A cornerstone of the web is that it be accessible to all - this means it must be cross-platform compatible. MS has never really wanted this to be so, but it is. They'll keep trying to push a windows-centric world view on the world, but i believe ultimately this must fail. The web (and the world) is bigger than Microsoft (and Macrobe). Guy On 08/09/2006, at 8:25 AM, tbone58x wrote: So much for W3C establishd standards. How can you just walk away from this on such short notice? How can M$ and Adobe be part of the W3C when they do not adhere to what the group is all about? SVG has been around for nearly five years and is not slated to be part of IE7 - sad... --- In svg-developers@ mailto:svg-developers%40yahoogroups.com yahoogroups.com, Randy George [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Geoffrey, I agree with your analysis. Here's my soapbox for what its worth :) Speaking honestly as a small independent developer, without an IE option sticking with SVG is not really feasible, switching to Flash narrows options and now also has a questionable life expectancy, while switching to WFS-XAML is a
Re: [svg-developers] Re: Is Adobe's greed clearing the way for XAML
Jon I hope you're right! My cynicism is born of over a decade of exposure to web technologies, however I do remain hopeful that things will improve. It has always stunned me that anyone would use proprietary, closed technologies when superior, free, standards-based alternatives exist. Hopefully the world is getting a little smarter every day. Guy On 08/09/2006, at 10:07 AM, Jon Ferraiolo wrote: Guy, I have been biting my tongue, but your email was too provocative. Generally, I agree with your points. My additional comments: * The open source phenomenon is huge. The same phenomenon that transformed the server world (what with LAMP) is starting to affect the client world. Although the threat isn't imminent, over the next few years MS is in danger of losing control over the browsing experience to Mozilla and Safari, both of which are open source and both of which implement W3C standards successfully. Firefox's market share is likely to accelerate in the short-term as Enterprises discover its merits as a strong platform for application development and begin to require its usage instead of IE for Enterprise applications. This will result in larger numbers of people who start to feel comfortable with Firefox (because of being forced to use it at their company) and therefore comfortable in abandoning IE for browsing the Web. (Note that Google is investing a ton of money in Mozilla these days. Microsoft is very much aware of this.) * As a result, Microsoft will be forced to re-embrace standards in order to stop the loss of market share and reclaim control over their own Windows platform. Microsoft will be forced to do whatever it takes in order to push Firefox's (and Safari's) market shares down below 5% once again, and (unfortunately for them) in today's world that includes world-class support for open standards. And, thanks to the leadership at Firefox, Safari, and Opera, SVG has become a requirement. Microsoft has been aware of all of this for a long time. Therefore, I expect to see SVG support in IE betas by the end of 2007. * I would be hugely surprised if Microsoft followed Adobe's lead and announced VML end-of-life in the same (unacceptable) manner as Adobe. Microsoft is considerably more sensitive to supporting their existing community of developers. When VML is EOL'd, Microsoft will give something like a 5-year window before VML quits working with new versions of IE. Or at least that what my personal crystal ball shows. Jon Guy Morton [EMAIL PROTECTED] auTo Sent by: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com svg- [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc hoogroups.com Subject Re: [svg-developers] Re: Is Adobe's 09/07/2006 04:20 greed clearing the way for XAML PM Please respond to [EMAIL PROTECTED] hoogroups.com Yes, it gives the lie to the lip service they give to standards adherence. M$ in particular only support those standards that they feel benefit their business (like someone else said, there's no other reason for them to release software for free). Honestly, how hard would it have been from MS to enable native SVG support, given that they already had VML, which has been in IE since v5? Should we really believe their weasel words about it coming in IE8? I don't think so! I'm now wondering how long it will be before MS announces the EOL for VML, as a way of trying to screw projects like http://dojo.jot.com/ Dojo2D and push everyone towards using XAML. Personally, I'd be VERY reluctant to start porting apps to XAML, given that at the moment even M$ are not committing to it being available on anything but Vista - that's going to be a pretty limited market for a long time, even putting to one side that it leaves any non-windows users out in the cold. This might be fine for corporate applications, but wake up people, there's plenty of users moving away from Windows these days! From my web logs I'd say only 75% of users are using IE now - 25% of users is a pretty big chunk to lose by building your app using IE/Windows-dependent technology! A cornerstone of the web is that it be accessible to all - this means it must be cross-platform compatible. MS has never really wanted this to be so, but it is. They'll keep trying to push a windows-centric world view on the world, but i believe ultimately this must fail. The web (and the world) is bigger than Microsoft (and Macrobe). Guy On 08/09/2006, at 8:25 AM, tbone58x wrote: So much for W3C establishd standards. How can you just walk away from this on such
Re: [svg-developers] Re: how to get every item of path element
Kurt Martin: Yes, you can access the DOM via javascript. What is pathSegList? I imagine it is the 'pathSegList' attribute on the SVGAnimatedPathData interface. Liu Chang, there is nothing wrong with your syntax there. You don’t mention what SVG implementation you are using (Firefox, Opera, Batik etc.) Perhaps it does not implement 'pathSegList'? -- Cameron McCormack, http://mcc.id.au/ xmpp:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ▪ ICQ 26955922 ▪ MSN [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -or- visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click edit my membership Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
